HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-02/16/2011 Jill M. Doherty, President
Bob Ghosio, Jr., Vice-President
James F. King
Dave Bergen
John Bredemeyer
Town Hall Annex
54375 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone (631) 765-1892
Fax (631) 765-6641
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Minutes
Wednesday, February16, 2011
6:00 PM
Present Were:
Jill Doherty, President
Bob Ghosio, Jr., Vice-President
James F. King, Trustee
Dave Bergen, Trustee
John Bredemeyer, Trustee
Lauren Standish, Secretarial Assistant
Lori Hulse, Assistant Town Attorney
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, at 8:00 AM
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, Mamh 23, 2011, at 6:00 PM
WORKSESSION: 5:30 PM
APPROVE MINUTES: Approve Minutes of January 19, 2011
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Before we start the agenda, I would just like
to go over some postponements. For various reasons, there are a
few postponements.
Page three, number one, JMO Environmental Consulting on behalf
of DAVIES FAMILY TRUST requests an Amendment to Wetland Permit
#7417 to construct a 4x74' fixed catwalk with open-grate decking
secured by 6" piles, a 3xl 5' ramp, 6x20' float secured by two
batter piles and a tie off pile. Located: 2385 Pine Tree Road,
Cutchogue, has been postponed.
And number two, MICHAEL & GILLIAN WILSON request an
Amendment to Wetland Permit #5438 to change the dock from 20x4'
to 30x4', add a 4' fiberglass open-grate walkway along the
bulkhead and designate a 10' non-turf buffer landward of the
walkway. Located: 590 Tarpon Drive, Southold, is postponed.
And on the bottom under Wetland Permits, on page three,
number two, Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc., on behalf of
WINDWARD ROAD ASSOC, requests a Wetland Permit to construct
beach access stairs consisting of a top landing 3x7', upper
stairs 3x16', bottom landing 3x3' and lower stairs 3x5.6' on a
right-of-way owned by Peter & Grace Gorman. Located: 440
Windward Lane, Orient, is postponed.
Page four, number six, Shore Solutions, Inc., on behalf of
RECEIVED
/t
APR 1 2311
Southold Town Clerk
Board of Trustees 2 February 16, 2011
Wayne Galante Stenographic Services
631.835.7882
LAUREL COUNTRY ESTATES PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOC., INC., requests a
Wetland Permit to replace inplace 40 linear feet of timber navy
bulkhead with a vinyl navy bulkhead and an 6' return on the east
end; replace existing 4x6' timber landin§ and 4x27' timber
stairway down the bluff; replace 3x14' steps; and replace
existing timber fence at the top of bluff where needed. Located:
3850 Great Peconic Bay Boulevard, Peconic, has been postponed.
And number nine, David Corwin on behalf of BARBARA PAGANO
requests a Wetland Permit to remove existing bulkhead, install
in same location 56 linear feet of vinyl bulkhead, reconstruct
existing 6x20' wood float, 6x10' wood float, 3x14' ramp, 3x6'
platform, install two float anchor piles and replace
approximately 10 cubic yards lost fill. Located: 2435 Cedar
Lane, East Marion, is postponed.
We have quite a few postponements, and they are all for
different reasons. So they'll be heard most likely next month.
Today we have Peter Young representing the Conservation Advisory
Council who reviews all the same applications the Trustees do.
And we have Wayne Galante here taking the Minutes, so if you do
want to speak, please come up to the mic, say your name clearly
and please keep your comments brief; five minutes or less is our
policy. Lori Hulse will be here, she is our counsel tonight, and
with that we'll get started.
The next field inspection is scheduled for March 16 at 8:00 AM.
TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Our next meeting will be March 23, at 6:00 PM,
with a work session at 5:30.
TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Do I have a motion to approve the Minutes of
January 19, 20117
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'll move to approve those Minutes.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
I. MONTHLY REPORT:
The Trustees monthly report for January, 2011. A check for
$7,814.45 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the
General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's bulletin board for
Board of Trustees 3 February 16, 2011
review.
III. STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWS:
RESOLVED that the Board of Trustees of the Town of Southold
hereby finds that the following applications more fully
described in Section VI Public Hearings Section of the Trustee
agenda dated Wednesday, February 16, 2011, are classified as
Type II Actions pursuant to SEQRA rules and regulations, and are
not subject to further review under SEQRA.
They are listed as follows:
Ludivoica Romanelli - SCTM#128-6-9.2
John F. Betsch - SCTM#54-4-24
Levin Family Limited Partnership - SCTM#44-2-22
Laurel Country Estates Property Owners Assoc, Inc. - SCTM#128-6-3
Robert Horvath - SCTM#81-3-5
Paul DeMartino - SCTM#53-6-22
Davies Family Trust - SCTM#104-3-2
Southold Shores Boat Basin - SCTM#57-1-39.3
Glebe Associates, LLC - SCTM#106-6-3
Karen Daly & Mary Jablonski - SCTM#51-4-2
Gordon & June Seaman - SCTM#122-4-3
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
IV. RESOLUTIONS-ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Number one. Dave, do you want to go ahead with
that one?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Number one is DOUGLAS GEROWSKI requests an
Administrative Permit to remove and replace the existing deck
and fence around the inground swimming pool. Located: 5705
Stillwater Avenue, Cutchogue.
It was deemed exempt under the LWRP. I did go out and I
looked at this, and this is a house and pool that is very, very
close to the wetlands; probably about 14 feet from the wetlands.
But what they want to do is just replace the deck and the wood
fence. The only thing I would want to add to this is on the
water side of the house there are no drywells, so the gutters
and leaders lead right down to the grass and is channeled right
into Eugene's Creek. So I would like to add as a condition that
drywells be placed at those downspouts on the water side of the
house. So I would like to add that to the Administrative Permit.
TRUSTEE KING: Is there room to get equipment in there?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: No, there is reom to get equipment in on the
west side of the property. There is plenty of room. It's going
to be tight to get equipment in to do the fence and the decking,
they'll have to come through the front of that property to do
that. So I'll make a motion to approve the Administrative Permit
as described with the condition that drywells be added to the
leaders and gutters that are located on the seaward side of the
house.
Board of Trustees 4 February 16, 2011
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And this is exempt from LWRP.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yup.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Number two, John J. Condon, PE, on behalf of
SlGSBEE ROAD PARK requests an Administrative Permit to replace
existing chainlink fence inkind along the northern and eastern
property line. Located: 2950 Sigsbee Road, Mattituck.
Is there anybody here representing Sigsbee?
(No response).
All right, we all looked at this and from the, basically from the tree on the right side of the
picture to the end of where they want the fence, he wants split rail fence, because that's
on the beach, and the rest can be the chainlink.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Actually, Jill, I thought we recommended backing
up from where it ended previously, where you can see the most
seaward stake is left, or fence post is leaning. I thought we
had talked about it in the field backing it up two lengths so
that it didn't -- as a matter of fact, I took a measurement --
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, it says split rail from end of road to
71-foot mark, three posts in from water.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yup
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And the current fence is 93 feet from the small
retaining wall on the seaward end.
TRUSTEE KING: We want to shorten the fence by 20 feet.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Correct.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I wish somebody was here, because we wanted to
discuss that. Because where the fence ends now is in line with
the bulkheading on the east side, and I know Jim and I said we
didn't have a problem with it going out that far, because it's
still plenty of feet - our code says ten feet above mean high
water and it's way above ten feet high water, so it fits within
the code.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Actually, mean high water was about the top of
the bulkhead. It's not seaward cf the bulkhead.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I thought it was.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: No, because I walked out there with the tape and
looked at it and that's, that's what I recall. But again,
that's why we took the measurements.
TRUSTEE KING: What they are showing here is 35 feet from high
water, the end of the fence.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Because I remember going out there and looking
at the rack line and it was not up to that bulkhead. I didn't
see it that way. If we can measure what we want to back up on
the survey, it would probably be a better measurement.
TRUSTEE KING: (Perusing). If we take the previous scale, half of
it. It's roughly, it would be 70 feet from the road to the end
of the fence as it is now. Does that sound right?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We measured 71 feet.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: No, we measured 93 feet.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm measuring from the pavement end on the survey.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: No, we measured from the corner of the temporary
wall.
TRUSTEE KING: Right. 91, 92 feet.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And we want to make it 71. So mark on here
where it would be, please, from there.
Board of Trustees 5 February 16, 2011
TRUSTEE KING: 70, and we'll back it up 20 feet. We'll shorten it by 20 feet.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes, because that's what I measured it to, two
posts back. That's exactly right.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So I have three posts in from the water.
TRUSTEE KING: So on the survey it would be the third post in
from the end is where we want the fence to end.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So it's actually two sections offence, three
posts.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Does everybody agree on that?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All right, I'll make a motion to approve the
Administrative Permit to replace existing chainlink fence in
kind on the northern side of the property, and on the eastern
property line they can place it inkind up to the wood walkway
and from the wood walkway 70, approximately 70 out, shall be
post and rail fence. And marked as per the survey.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
V. APPLICATIONS FOR EXTENSIONS/TRANSFERS/ADMINISTRATIVE
AMENDMENTS:
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All right, Applications for Extensions,
Transfers and Administrative Amendments. The Board reviewed all
six of these and most of them are straightforward, just routine
changes. So with that I would like to put some of these
together. Number one, two, three, four and six, I'll make a
motion to approve as applied for, and they are listed as
follows:
Number one, Costello Marine Contracting on behalf of GARDINER'S
BAY ESTATES HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATION requests the last One-Year
Extension to Wetland Permit ~6821 as issued on February 27,
2008, and Amended on August 19, 2009. Located: Gardiner's Bay
Estates, East Marion.
Number two, Patricia Moore, Esq., on behalf of GREGORY K.
JOHNSON requests the last One-Year Extension to Wetland Permit
#6826, as issued on February 24, 2008. Located: 2870 Henry's
Lane, Peconic.
Number three, Patricia Moore, Esq., on behalf of GRACE BURR
HAWKINS requests a One-Year Extension to Wetland Permit #7089,
as issued on April 22, 2009, and Amended on July 22, 2009.
Located: Private Road, Fishers Island.
Number four, FRED POLLERT requests a Transfer of Wetland Permit
#1440 from William Pollert to Frederick Pollert to replace the
decking on the dock, and as issued on July 2, 1980. Located: 375
Lighthouse Lane, Southold.
Number six, Docko, Inc., on behalf of JAMES BAKER requests an
Amendment to Wetland Permit #6619 to realign 40 linear feet of
4' wide previously permitted timber stairs, relocate a
previously permitted 4xl 1' landing and add 23 linear feet of 4'
wide timber stairs, landward of the apparent high water line.
Located: Peninsula Road, Fishers Island.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
Board of Trustees 6 February 16, 2011
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Number five under Applications for Extensions,
Transfers and Amendments. FRED POLLERT requests an Amendment to
Wetland Permit #6503 to either install a ramp or steps through
the 10' non-turf buffer landward of the bulkhead. Located: 375
Lighthouse Lane, Southold.
We went out to inspect this property for the amendment. We
also met with the owner of the property while we were there.
Really no issue whatsoever. His wife is currently disabled with
no prognosis of getting any better. He needs to have these steps
through the non-turf buffer, and he has tried to do it within
the confines of his current permit but the stones are just too
slippery for her as she tries to get down to the dock. So I
really don't see any problem with that. I talked to him about
using grated decking or non-treated lumber to do the work. If he
uses non-treated lumber he's certainly willing it go
three-eighths to half inch so water can flow through it, but
he's interested in grated material as well.
While we were there we discussed the slope going down to
where these steps would, and it's a really steep grade, and she
has trouble making that trip, too. He would like to see if we
could get these steps extended another 19 feet to the landward
of the bulkhead. Again, really no issue, it just was not in his
application, so I just wanted to bring it up, bring it to you,
it would just be an extension, that 12 feet wide would be
another 19 feet to the application. It's in our jurisdiction so
I just wanted to make sure it got mentioned.
If anybody would like to see it, I do have the diagrams
here, but again, very straightforward. And if there are any
questions, I'm willing to answer them.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Seems straightforward.
TRUSTEE KING: Sounds pretty simple.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So with that I would like to make the motion we
approve the application for Fred Pollert as an amendment to his
permit to install steps through the ten-foot non-turf buffer and
then another 19 feet landward of the non-turf buffer, steps
being 12 foot wide and being constructed of either non-treated
lumber with three-eighths spacing between the decking and/or use
the grated decking material that we have been prescribing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll make a motion to go off regular hearings
and on to public hearings.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
VI. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: The first two are postponed so we'll go right
into Coastal Erosion Permits.
COASTAL EROSION PERMITS:
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Number one, LEVIN FAMILY LIMITED PARTNERSHIP
requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit to conduct
repairs to the existing beach stairs and motel building.
Board of Trustees 7 February 16, 2011
Located: 58855 Rt. 48, Greenport.
If you would like to come up to the podium, we have some
questions on this. Obviously this is a place that has been
there for a long time, and the permits -- and our goal here and
I think your goal is to permit everything that you have here so
when you do need to do a repair, you don't need come in for
every little thing. So we need to come up with a better
description than what we have here. All we have in front of us
is a survey of the property which shows all the stairs and the
decking, and we just want to see specifically within, describe
for the Minutes exactly what you are repairing this time.
MS. WIEDERLIGHT: Ellen Levin Wiederlight. There were three
staircases that got broken; two in half and one totally off the
back decking overlooking the water. And I want to put those two,
fix the three staircases.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Was there a piling underneath one of the --
MS. LEVIN: There are three pilings, one got totally cracked and
two got just split by debris that battered up against it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Okay, can you come up here and show me the
three sets of stairs so we just have that in the file? Because
right now I'm counting 13 sets of stairs.
MS. LEVIN: Okay, my front sign, so one staircase here and two at
the restaurant end.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And the pilings are --
MS. LEVIN: One is right here and one is totally broken and right
about here, and the two cracked ones are second one and that one
(indicating).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Okay. All right, now the next question is for
the Board. If you want to take a look at this survey, this shows
the hotel structure and all the stairs and everything, all the
structures on it. Is this sufficient for giving it a full permit
for this whole structure and stairs? I counted 13 stairs and
then the whole decking, and then there is another deck that goes
out and it's all shown on here. These stairs that I circled are
the stairs she needs to fix at this time, and there is a piling
here and here and here, underneath that needs to be replaced. So
I don't know if you want any other information.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So have any of these stairwells disappeared or
they just need a piling or boards or something like that?
MS. LEVIN: Two were split in half and the third one is laying on
the beach.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't have an issue. They have been there for
years. As long as they use untreated material on the stairs, no CCA.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We just have a question for legal.
(Off the record conversation between Trustee Doherty and Ms. Hulse).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I think we are okay. She will still look but
she doesn't feel this is a problem with the way it's set up.
Again, this Board, is the Board happy with the plan, the survey
we have now for our records to approve? We can approve the
building of the stairs and the decks as per site plan as per
survey dated --
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It's up on the upper legend.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I see, thank you. January 12, 2005.
MS. LEVIN: This is the same thing that has been around all these
years. I mean it even survived the fire.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We are just trying to make sure legally
Board of Trustees 8 February 16, 2011
everything on here fits in so it serves your purpose.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Because I believe when you came for the fire,
we have been giving you piecemeal permits, and what we want to
do is just permit the whole thing, then when you have to repair
stairs you can just repair it and normal maintenance can be done
without coming to us for every little thing.
MR. WIEDERLIGHT: I'm Mark Wiederlight, by the way. Also her
attorney. But as she is saying, as most of you know, this is to
repair the existing footprint that has been there for 60 years
with no changes, you know, no escalators; just the way it was
when her dad built it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Right. Of course, we are giving you, we are
reviewing this proposal for a full permit and you can repair,
but if you ever want to change something, then you need to come
in for an amendment.
MR. WIEDERLIGHT: Right.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Thank you, I think that answers all our
questions. It is consistent with LWRP. Is there anyone here,
anyone else here to speak on behalf of this or against this
application?
(No response).
All right, hearing none, I'll make a motion to close the public
hearing.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll make a motion to approve the Levin Family
Limited Partnership wetland permit and coastal erosion permit
for hotel structure, decks and associated stairs as noted on
survey dated January 12, 2005. And with that approval to repair
the three sets of stairs and three pilings that need to be
replaced. And this is consistent with LWRP. And I'm sorry, the
Conservation Advisory Council moved to approve as well.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is there any other comment from the Board on
this?
(No response).
All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Number two, JOHN F. BETSCH requests a Wetland
Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit for the placement of rocks,
approximately 36" diameter to be embedded into the embankment
along the eroded area parallel to the shoreline. Located: 2325
North Sea Drive, Southold.
We have not gotten an LWRP on this yet so we cannot act on this
tonight, but I would like to open the hearing and get going on it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Do we know when it was submitted for review to
the LWRP?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, we do. It's listed right here.
TRUSTEE KING: January 28.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So it's not 30 days.
MR. BETSCH: The application was submitted, I believe, on the
14th of January.
TRUSTEE KING: This was stamped in received on the 18th from the
LWRP on the 28th. Received the application on the 18th. There
is a letter in here from a Mr. John Chihlas. I'll just briefly
Board of Trustees 9 February 16, 2011
highlight it: 30-year resident of Southold. They use McCabe's
Beach, and they question will placement of rocks cause
additional erosion to McCabe's Beach. Has any study been
conducted. And erosion would have a major negative impact on our
community, especially since the beach has already suffered
significant erosion in recent years, in particular in the last
few months. He questions how the rocks will be brought
into the property, will the trucks use the beach parking lot.
Will the weight of the trucks and the rocks result in damage to
the parking lot. Is the town ready to make repairs that may be
required as a result of this. And they would oppose this if this
causes deterioration of the area. That is basically the
substance of the letter.
MR. BETSCH: The assumption on that from John Chihlas is that
I'll be replacing the rocks using McCabe's Beach parking lot.
That's not a good assumption.
TRUSTEE KING: So how will you access it?
MR. BETSCH: Access will be parked in front of my house, I have a
circular driveway, using a bobcat to go through my property,
down my walkway and place one by one rock along the property.
Mr. Chihlas lives across the street from me, diagonally across
the street. The submission of this was based on an inspection of
the property by people I would consider experts, you know, they
are stewards of the shoreline, and that was considered a
reasonable solution to solve this erosion problem. That's why
I'm submitting this today.
Everybody has seen the Christmas storm
and what it did and this is just 73 feet from my house but it's approximately
65 feet from the water line. I don't ever anticipate, hopefully,
ever anticipate water coming up that high again, it's just to
imbed into my, where the beach grass is high before it goes
down, I'll be covering it probably with rosa rugosa so it's
unobtrusive, and the concept is they be imbedded into the
embankment.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm just reviewing the Conservation Advisory
Council. They resolve not to support the wetland permit, and
they recommend vegetative protection in an area 15 to 20 feet
using beach grass.
MR. BETSCH: There was beach grass there and it's no longer there.
TRUSTEE KING: There was beach grass there and a lot of it has
been gone. We have a similar site up by Town Beach where we
permitted a row of stone at the toe of the beach grass, but I
guess the stone was not heavy enough for this storm. The stones
are still there but they have been moved around and the beach
grass is all gone.
So, is there anybody else in the audience who wishes to comment
on this application?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I just want to make a comment. I talked to Mark
Terry today. The reason why he doesn't have the LWRP done is he
has concerns and he wanted to look further into engineering of
the whole area, because none of the area has any hardening, and
the way the cross-section shows, it shows your rocks above
where, you know, the land is, above the elevation and he's
fearful of putting that up and what's it going to do, you have
no returns, and even if he does have returns, what's going to
Board of Trustees 10 February 16, 2011
happen with the properties on either side of you. So he has
concerns about that, and we do, too.
MR. YOUNG: That's concerns we have as well.
TRUSTEE KING: If you put a structure and it affects the two side
properties.
MR. YOUNG: You armor one section and you have each other
suffering as a result of that.
TRUSTEE KING: You may want to blend this in inside the property
line, bring a little return inside the property line.
MR. BETSCH: No problem with doing that. In theory, in a perfect
world, it would be nice if everybody from McCabe's Beach all the
way to Kenny's Beach do a similar thing. But you know if you
try to get three kids to play together, they don't play nice,
and it would be an impossible thing to get accomplished.
TRUSTEE KING: Mr. Betsch, where are you with DEC on this?
MR. BETSCH: I was not home. My wife was there. I believe they
were out and inspecting it. They have not come back to me. All
I can tell you is they made a comment about my plantings and
natural features there. They were very impressed, but they gave
me no indication - I E-mailed John Whelan to get a status but
they have not gotten back to me. They made a comment though,
that they have no problem with it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Did you talk to them at the meeting this
morning?
MR. BET$CH: They were not, John Whelan was not there.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And George Hammaris would be good one to talk
to. He was there today.
MR. BETSCH: John Whelan was the processor. He was the one I was
to contact. They did make a comment, though, I'll repeat it,
they had no problem with it. That was their comment.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: John, is there an opportunity to drop the peak
elevation of these rocks, boulders, down so it's at the same
elevation as the current top of the bank there?
MR. BETSCH: That's exactly what I'm doing.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The cross-section looks like it's a little higher.
MR. BETSCH: Where it is now, before the storm, I went beach
grass this way, then there was a slow gradual drop to the
stairs. You saw it in your inspection. Now it goes like this,
and it's a four-foot drop. I'm going to build, put rocks, bury
it into the embankment so you don't see it, the wall, and
hopefully, when there is wind coming in, depending on the storm,
it brings sand to be pushed up against those rocks again.
Depending on how the storm is. When it's an incoming tide, it
usually pushes sand or if it's wind, it pushes sand.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That helps clarify, hearing from Jill, the
comment that she heard from Mark, so we are getting this
secondhand, but one of his concerns was it appeared to him the
elevation was higher.
MR. BETSCH: I'm not trying to build a wall.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So that should help mitigate the concerns of the
LWRP coordinator. That's why I asked.
MR. BETSCH: The whole intent is to bury it so you do not see it.
There is no difference in people all along the area who gather
tree limbs and branches and throw them up against -- it's the
same thing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I think maybe what we need is a better
Board of Trustees 11 February 16, 2011
cross-section drawing, because your cross-section drawing gives
the impression the stones will be higher than the elevation of
the land. So maybe a little different drawing showing they
would be buried under and be at the same level.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: What you are describing does not match what we
see here in the drawings. So if you could just redraw it to
your exact description you are giving us now, that could
mitigate the concerns of the LWRP.
MR. BETSCH: It would be very simple to do on that drawing
because where the cross-section is not to scale, to draw a
vertical line three foot or four foot and rocks three foot. And
that would explain it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, because I think that's where our confusion
was with this cross-section because it didn't depict what the
discussion was in the field.
TRUSTEE KING: So it would be that and where we are going to end
that. Where we'll end those stones on the property lines.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Have you talked to any type of engineer or
anything?
MR. BETSCH: No, I did not, because it's not structural, it's not
a bulkhead or a dock, I didn't feel it was --
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Have you talked to a contractor yet about it?
MR. BETSCH: No, I have some contractors, Dave, but I did not.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Because they can provide some good advice as to
the end of it.
TRUSTEE KING: Bring the returns in.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Bingo. Absolutely.
MR. BETSCH: And to be honest, I was planning on a return
specifically at the town beach side because that is where the
wind comes from, the northeast.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And what Mark was saying, if you do that return
right on your property line and it comes in, it might wash out
the town beach even more. It would save your property but it
would wash out there is. That's what is his concern.
MR. BETSCH: I don't think that's likely.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: You saw this last storm, we didn't think would
do the damage it did. Mother nature does what she wants. We
can't predict what she wants to do. We have seen it happen.
Maybe it won't happen, maybe it will. That's one of the
concerns. That's why Mark wants to speak with an engineer. So
that's just the comments that we are hearing.
MR. BETSCH: I'll go to Jamie Reichter. Let him decide. Could
that be, representing the town? He's representing the town's
position. Mark Terry is representing the town's position.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, you can talk to him about the town
property.
TRUSTEE KING: I would like to see what kind of progress you make
with DEC on this, too, because sometimes we'll issue a permit
and they come in and say no, no, you can't do that. I don't want
to see you get jerked around.
MR. BETSCH: I tried to get status before. Just one more comment.
I want to take exception to the comment about using McCabe's
Beach. Because as president of the civic association we made
specific plans and things, we arranged to have all the beach
grass put in that parking lot.
So why would I as a person specifically undo all the things that I
Board of Trustees 12 February 16, 2011
arranged to have done in that beach?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Excuse me, the comments have to be to the
Board. If you guys want to have a discussion later, you can.
MR. BETSCH: That was just for the record. Thank you.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: So if there is nothing else.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: There is one other person. Please come up to
the mic and state your name.
MS. PEARLSTEIN: I'm Justine Pearlstein, I live right next door
to John Betsch. We are concerned about the impact this would
have on our beach. We don't have a study or anything. That is
our concern, as somebody else expressed, it might scoop out our
next door property so.
TRUSTEE KING: That's why we were talking about a return,
possibly away from your property line.
MS. PEARLSTEIN: And there was a letter from another neighbor,
John Vazquez. Did you get that?
TRUSTEE KING: I didn't see it. Yes, I'm sorry. There was another
letter by Donald and Jean Vazquez and it was just their opinion
is no construction should be effected that negatively impacts
any of the neighboring houses, and has the Board of Trustees
fully investigated the impact of a rock ledge to neighboring
homes. So those are a couple of concerns that have been voiced.
And we'll have to dig into it a little bit.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, and at this time we'll have to table it.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes. So right now I'll make a motion to table
this application?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Any discussion on this?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The only discussion, I have a recommendation for
the applicant to again just talk to a contractor about the
opportunity to put returns on either side and to submit plans
that show that.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And put the returns closer into the property,
not on the property line.
MS. HULSE: In the interim, Jill, you'll be accepting comment
from anyone else they would like to submit any, I'm sure.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, this is tabled, so the public hearing is
still open and we'll have it on our agenda next month.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: And written comments will be accepted until that
time.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Any comments would be appreciated before that
so we have a chance to review them. Okay, there was a motion
and it was carried. It was seconded and I interrupted. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Number three, Land Use Ecological Services,
Inc., on behalf of KAREN DALY & MARY JABLONSKI requests a
Wetland Permit and a Coastal Erosion Permit to reconstruct
approximately 152' of existing wood bulkhead inkind and inplace;
place 100 cubic yards of fill landward of the bulkhead to meet
existing grade; and install a line of temporary sandbags
landward of the bulkhead in order to prevent further erosion
where bulkhead is failing. Located: 19895 Soundview Avenue,
Southold.
This was reviewed under the LWRP and found to be consistent.
The Conservation Advisory Council did go out and looked at it and
Board of Trustees 13 February 16, 2011
the Conservation Advisory Council resolved to not support the application.
The CAC does not support the application because the bluff is unstable.
A bulkhead should not be installed until the bluff achieves a
stable angle of repose. Conservation Advisory Council also
recommends a drainage plan to contain the runoff from the
existing dwelling. Is there anybody here to speak on behalf of
the application?
MS. ROSATO: Yes. Kelly Rosato with Land Use Ecological Services.
The application is fairly straightforward. It's a reconstruction
of existing bulkhead inplace. I'm not sure if the Board had a
chance to look at the revised site plans that were submitted
this week. Initially, the proposal was for an inkind
reconstruction but after consultation with the contractor, the
applicants are requesting to reconstruct the bulkhead using
steel sheet piles as opposed to timber.
And the other aspect of the application is to include placing
fill landward of the reconstructed bulkhead where the grade was
eroded, to meet the existing grade and to temporarily place sand
bags landward of the bulkhead to try to stabilize it in a more
immediate timeframe.
We do have a DEC permit for the reconstruction of the wood
bulkhead. A modification was submitted for this steel sheet
piles. We have not received a response from DEC yet and our
permits with the Army Corps and Department of State are also
pending. I'll try to answer any other questions you have. The
contractor is also here if you have questions regarding any of
the structural details or anything like that.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: When we were doing the field inspection I
guess the Board had a general question as to the efficacy or the
value of the sand bags.
MS. ROSATO: It's just a temporary measure, they wanted to put
the sand bags out now to try to save what is there, immediately
landward of the failed bulkhead, until they can get the new one in.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Did you say you have the permit from the DEC?
MS. ROSATO: I do have the permit from the DEC for the inkind
inplace reconstruction. We submitted a modification for the
steel sheet piles, and that's in process, we have not received
that yet.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: What's the anticipated timeframe for that?
MS. ROSATO: The DEC was really great with us on our initial
permit. We had it within a couple of weeks. So hopefully we'll
have it very soon, the modification.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: The reason I'm asking that question is because
if we issue the permit, in reality, there is no need for
temporary sand bags, you would be able to start the project
pretty soon.
MS. ROSATO: Right, and if that's the case, that would be great.
It's just, like I said, a measure until we get everything in
place initially --
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Myself, personally, I didn't have a problem with
the emergency sand bags - well, now that we see them described
for emergencies, we kind of thought they would be permanent and
of course another storm comes along and they'll get destroyed.
So I have no problem with the emergency sand bags myself. Access
to this will all be from the property?
MS. ROSATO: Jeff Ruby from Chesterfield Associates can speak to
Board of Trustees 14 February 16, 2011
the actual construction.
MR. RUBY: From the water.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Okay, so access will be from a barge from the
water.
MR. RUBY: Yes.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Now, just to address the concerns of the
Conservation Advisory Council, and, Peter, I don't know if you
want to speak a little more to this, the bank that was there
seemed to be pretty well vegetated. It appeared fairly stable.
Is it the CAC felt it was not stable at all right now or what --
I need a little help with regard to their concern that the bank
was currently unstable other than obviously the bottom where
there is no bulkhead right now is unstable.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: We have the two spots where it's letting go.
MR. YOUNG: We had three folks. I was not one of those who
visited the subject property, but their concerns were for the,
you know, with respect to the angle of repose, and they felt
there should be some engineering done to ensure that that slope
was stabilized, and not having seen it myself, I would suggest
that, to the clients, to the applicants, that they, you know,
re-assure themselves that that bank is stabilized before they
spend money on a bulkhead that could be compromised by a bank
that is not going to hold.
TRUSTEE KING: I had in my field notes the retaining walls were
failing. There were retaining walls on the bluff that were
letting go, they were all bowed out and well on their way to
complete failure.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: But in general, the vegetation was still in tact.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The vegetation was in tact. And I walked down
those stairs. The stairs were sturdy, and I walked down because
I wanted to look over the top of the bulkhead. So I agree with
what Jim is saying, there were some, the retaining walls seemed
to be bowing out. That could be a result of the failure of this
bulkhead, and once the bulkhead is in place maybe that will help
address the other issue. But we want to bring it to the
attention of the property owners that it could be a potential
issue there with those retaining walls, just the stability of
them. Thank you, Peter.
Yes, if you want to speak, step up to the mic.
MS. JABLONSKI: Yes, I'm one of the owners, Mary Jablonski, so I
would like to address the stability of the bluff. The bowing
walls, retaining walls, they have been bowing 15 years since we
got the property. What we have done is plant the rosa rugosa and
privet. Actually we planted mainly rosa rugosa and a little bit
of privet on the property for the root systems. And any of the
storms we had, we have absolutely no loss of the bluff
whatsoever. Our neighbor's bluff collapsed next door to the east
of us completely, and we did not lose our bluff because it's well
planted. So the bluff is really stable. The only thing we lost was in the
west corner, um, there is actually, I think two other bulkheads behind
this because it was bulkheaded for a long period of time.
TRUSTEE KING: We noticed that.
MS. JABLONSKI: And the only part that gave way, unfortunately,
is where they took out the old bulkheads previously in the west
corner. And the only reason, again, we are worried about that is
our neighbor next door, I realize sand bagging it is not a
Board of Trustees 15 February 16, 2011
permanent solution, it's probably a storm could have an effect
of taking it away, but our thought was to try to protect our
neighbor as much as possible by putting the sand bags there so
if was it was a loss it would be the loss of the sand bags and
not the loss of anymore bluff.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Thank you. Any other comment from anybody
in the audience?
(No response).
If not, any other comments from Board members?
(No response).
If none, I'll make a motion to close this public hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Sorry, before we do that. We did have on the field notes a
drainage pipe. Bob, you filled out the field notes remove a drainage pipe and put in a
drywell. Was this up on the house?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: That was up by the house. It looked like there
was a drainage pipe going down.
MS. JABLONSKI: It was something useless that was put under the
previous bulkhead, which we would be happy to remove.
MS. DALY: I could explain that. I'm Karen Daly, the other owner
of the property. That was put in 15 years ago when the failed
bulkhead was put in. There was just an underground spring. There
is no water has come out of that for years and years. We would
be happy to remove that, if you would like us to. it has nothing
to do with cesspools or any of that. So if you would like us to
remove that, that's not a problem at all.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That would be great. Then I'm comfortable with
moving forward to closing the public hearing.
MR. RUBY: One comment, please. I'm Jeff Ruby, I'm with
Chesterfield Associates, we are the contractor for the project.
Just one note, due to the weather this time of year, the
bulkhead project would not start until probably May, after the
winds come around from the south. That's one of the reasons for
the sand bags.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Maybe, when we go to make the motion, Dave,
maybe we ought to put a set of dates in there for the temporary
sand bags to be removed.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'm comfortable with the sand bags remaining
because I'm pretty confident they'll be busted up by future
storms, then it will be just natural sands dissipating into the
beach. So, myself, I'm comfortable with the sand bags.
TRUSTEE KING: They might just cover them when they back from the
bulkhead. Are you going to leave the sand bags in place?
MR. RUBY: They'll be buried.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Okay, everybody is comfortable with that, I'm
good with it.
TRUSTEE KING: So we have a motion and a second to close the
public hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'll make a motion to approve the application
for the wetland and the coastal erosion permits for Land Use
Ecological Services on behalf of Karen Daly and Mary Jablonski,
as described, with the condition that the drainage pipe up on
the top of the bluff is removed, and I believe that's the only
Board of Trustees 16 February 16, 2011
condition. And it is not an inkind replacement. And this will
be as per the plans stamped received February 15, 2011. And it
has been found consistent under LWRP.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll second that.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Any discussion from the Board?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: You just might want to strike the word
"temporary" from the description. That's all.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes. Strike "inkind" and strike "temporary."
TRUSTEE KING: Actually to reconstruct approximately 152 feet of
existing wood bulkhead with steel. Inplace.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Well, he said as per the survey, which shows
that.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That's exactly right.
TRUSTEE KING: Sometimes people just read the permit and they
don't look at the plan.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Right. And then install a line of sand bags to
remain. All right, we have a motion and a second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
WETLAND PERMITS:
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The next hearing for a wetland permit,
Suffolk Environmental Consulting, Inc., on behalf of LUDIVOICA ROMANELLI
requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct the existing timber bulkhead along
the southern shoreline of subject property with a new vinyl bulkhead inplace of
the original bulkhead. Located: 3204 Peconic Bay Boulevard, Laurel.
The application was reviewed by the Trustees on field
inspection. It is supported by the Conservation Advisory Council
and it is consistent with the Local Waterfront Revitalization
Plan. The Trustees comments on field inspection mirror that of
the Conservation Advisory Council, that they would wish to
condition the construction of the new bulkhead with maintaining
the area on the lower tier as a non-turf buffer; in other words
the second tier or most seaward, lower tier of the non-turf
buffer. There is a letter to the Trustees concerning a neighbor,
I would like to read. It's addressed to the Trustees, dated
February 15. I'm one of the four Crabtree sisters whose father
purchased house and property to the west of Romanelli in 1947.
When we examined the site plan, it's not clear to us whether
there is encroachment on our property. Our own survey dates to
1947. I would hope there is no final decision made until this
is settled. Here are the plans if you wish to see, and here is
the survey.
MR. ANDERSON: The property to the west?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes, I guess as you face the water it tends
to run to the north, so to the left as you face the water. I
should say if you are on the water facing land it's to the left.
As you are facing the water, it would be to your right. Just in
reviewing the file for the hearing, I didn't see anything that
looked like a trespass based on the application in the survey,
unless I'm missing something. The rest of the Board is looking
at it now. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of
this application?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Excuse me, John, before the hearing continues, I
have to recuse myself on this one. So I just want to make that
Board of Trustees 17 February 16, 2011
clear. I won't be participating.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you, Trustee Ghosio.
MR. ANDERSON: Bruce Anderson, Suffolk Environmental Consulting,
for the applicant. I really don't have anything to add other
than the property to the west, I believe, is owned by, now owned
by someone named Stomh and there have -- first of all, there
will be no encroachment, but they will be applying for the exact
same thing next month. The only reason it's not before you
today is we could not get the surveys put together in time
TRUSTEE KING: Did they get a copy of the survey that would
indicate any encroachment of anything?
MR. ANDERSON: There is no encroachment.
TRUSTEE KING: No, according to this, there isn't.
MR. ANDERSON: But they will be applying for the same next thing
next month, because they incurred the same damage.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Again, for myself, and there could be one of the
Crabtree sisters here or somebody representing the Crabtree
sisters here that could speak to this issue. Is there anybody
here representing Crabtree sisters?
(No response).
Okay, because they submitted this note dated February 15 but yet there is no survey
that is with it, so we have nothing to go by other than the survey that has been submitted
with this application.
MR. ANDERSON: This survey before you is an as-built.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Right, and it's a licensed land survey and
it shows no issues.
TRUSTEE KING: It doesn't show anything across the property line.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Not even for discussion points. And it would
not be for us to say, but I understand there is some minor
encroachments on certain structures, but there is nothing
showing on this. This is sterile.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And we were all out there. We all saw what is
on the survey is there.
MR. ANDERSON: And as I said, you'll see the same application
next door.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: And we are obligated to discuss on the
record something as important as this, so we wanted everyone to
review it.
MR. ANDERSON: And probably the two property owners will be using
the same contractor.
TRUSTEE KING: I've seen disputes between surveyors before, too.
And this shows, looking at that survey, see that return coming
in. Does that belong here or does that belong to that bulkhead?
That may be what they are talking about.
MR. ANDERSON: This is to the east. She said to the west.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We are looking specifically for the return on
the Romanelli property that's on the western most edge of the
Romanelli property is what we are looking at, Bruce.
MR. ANDERSON: The western return is entirely on the property. We
do propose a small easterly return. But the Crabtree is to the
west. I don't understand. I can't address it.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't see an issue.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I don't either.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Anyone else with comment for or against the
application?
(No response).
Board of Trustees 18 February 16, 2011
If not, I'll make a motion to close the here hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I'll make a motion to approve this
application as submitted with the condition that the lower tier
remain natural as a non-vegetated and non-turf area. And all
work to proceed on the property of Ludivoica Romanelli. I would
so move.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Any further discussion from the Board?
(No response).
All in favor?
We'll take a role call vote. Trustee Bredemeyer?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Aye.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Trustee Bergen?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Aye.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Trustee King?
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Aye. And Trustee Ghosio is abstaining.
MR. ANDERSON: Thank you, very much.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Number three, Fairweather-Brown Design Assoc.,
Inc., on behalf of PAUL DEMARTINO requests a Wetland Permit to
construct a second-floor addition to the existing dwelling; lift
dwelling to flood plain regulations; and install a new sanitary
system. Located: 4205 Bay Shore Road, Greenport.
MS. MARTIN: Good evening, Amy Martin, of Faim/eather Design
Associates. I would like to --
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Excuse me, let me finish my introduction,
please.
MS. MARTIN: Oh, I'm sorry.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: As you could see we have been out to the field.
I have a picture up on the board here. We really didn't see it
being much of a problem whatsoever. We do have notes here that
the only conditions we would add at this point would be drainage
and drywells for the drainage from the house. The Conservation
Advisory Council also visited. They support the application with
the following conditions: A drainage plan is provided; hay bales
are installed and maintained throughout the construction; and
installation of ten-foot non-turf buffer.
I would suggest that when we were out there kind of the
whole property was a non-turf buffer, as I recall. It was all
stone. LWRP has found this to be exempt from LWRP. So with that,
I would ask if there is anybody here who would like to speak for
or against the application, please do so.
MS. MARTIN: Amy Martin of Fairweather Design Associates. And I
just want to make one little clerical correction. We were
Fairweather-Brown for 26 years. We are now Fairweather Design
Associates and Robert I. Brown, Architect, PC. So it's, legally,
that's the terminology that we need to use.
TRUSTEE GHO$10: Okay.
MS. MARTIN: And there is no change in anything, but. Just that
we are representing Paul DeMartino in this application and we
are just trying to put a 358 square foot second-story bedroom
addition to this, and because we are doing this expansion, we
need to raise this to the flood plane level, which is AE-6, so
Board of Trustees 19 February 16, 2011
the first floor needs to come up to eight feet. And because we
are making these improvements we also have to bring the septic
system up to current codes, which will cause fill to be brought
to the front yard to do a shallow system in the front, which is
currently being designed by John Condon.
TRUSTEE KING: What's the current first floor elevation now?
MS. MARTIN: It's 6'6" right now. So it's coming up to eight. And
it's on a block foundation with a rat slab or slab below it, so
they'll just raise it and add block to bring it higher to meet grade.
TRUSTEE KING: What do they do with that fireplace now to bring
it up to grade? Out of curiosity.
MS. MARTIN: The mover believes he can actually lift it. In fact
they were looking to get a re-bid from the mason to make the
changes necessary. And the only thing that we are changing to
the footprint is I think there will be two steps extra needed on
the beach side because of the raise in the grade.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So just to make it clear, if anything happens
in raising and adding and you have to re-do that first floor,
you need to come back to us first.
MS. MARTIN: Okay.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Because if we do give approval tonight, it's
just to raise it and add the second floor, so if it has to be
demolished for whatever reason, you need to stop what you are
doing and comeback to us and amend the permit.
MS. MARTIN: Okay. Understood.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: As you can see from the picture, it's all stone
and is what we would call a pervious base to everything. Is
that going to stay that way?
MS. MARTIN: I believe so. I have not, I could confirm that with
the owners. But I believe that the family has owned the
property, it's been handed down to them and the sisters live
next door, so it sort of was done years ago.
TRUSTEE KING: You can just maintain that in its present state.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Yes, that's what I wanted to -- we need to
address that. If they want to landscape from the corner
landward, I don't have an issue with that, but because it's so
close in proximity to the water, I would like to keep it this
way, waterside of the house. So I just would like to put that in
there.
MS. MARTIN: Okay.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Aside from that, if there ara no other comments
or questions, I make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MS. MARTIN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: I would like to make a motion to approve the
application as stated with the additions that there be a
drainage from the house and drywells installed to contain the
drainage from the house, rainwater, and just a stipulation that
there be no further landscaping to the waterside of the home and
try to keep it in a natural condition the way it is now.
MS. MARTIN: I realize you closed the hearing. We have put in a
request to both the DEC and the Health Department to use one of
Board of Trustees 20 February 16, 2011
the existing brick leaching pools as the roof rainwater and they
may require a letter from the town for the Health Department to
say that's okay, if you agree to that. But rather than dig
another drywell, there are three leaching pools that have worked
for 50 years, and they'll be cleaned and --
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: As long as it's addressed is all we are
concerned with. And I would ask you resubmit a site plan that
shows where those will be, once that is determined.
MS. MARTIN: Okay.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: And that's my motion.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Just one other comment I want to make. When
the, just to make sure, when the walls are, leaching pools, when
that is designed, to make sure it stays within Chapter 236, the
drainage code, because it is close to the property line, make
sure all the drainage stays on the property. Is there any other
discussion from the Board on this?
(No response).
All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Number four, BBS Architects on behalf of GORDON & JUNE
SEAMAN requests a Wetland Permit to remove existing second-story addition and
construct a reconfigured second-story within the existing first-floor footprint and to
construct a new concrete patio set on grade. Located: 1570 Ole Jule Lane, Mattituck.
This is found to be exempt from the LWRP, and the Conservation Advisory
Council supports the application with the condition of a drainage plan. The Board went
out and looked at this and I don't think we had - we have been at this property many
times in the recent past, so we reviewed it inhouse, and I don't think we had any
problems with it. Is thero anyone here who would like to speak on behalf or against this
application?
MR. SMITH: My name is Roger Smith, I'm from BBS Architects and I'm here to answer
any questions you might have.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We just, the only thing is we didn't see
drywells on the plan. We would request gutters, leaders and
drywells on the house, and to conform with Chapter 236 of the
Drainage Code of the Town of Southold.
MR. SMITH: Okay.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Are there any comments from the Board?
(No response).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It was pretty straightforward application.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll make a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll make a motion to approve the application
of BBS Architects on behalf of Gordon and June Seaman as
submitted with the condition of drywells from leaders, gutters
and leaders. Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is there any further Board discussion on it?
(No response).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: Number five, Charles Thomas, PA, on behalf of ROBERT HORVATH
requests a Wetland Permit to construct an addition to the existing dwelling and porch
addition. Located: 4550 Paradise Point Road, Southold.
Board of Trustees 21 February 16, 2011
This is found consistent with LWRP. Conservation Advisory Council supports the
application with the condition the area between the bulkhead and the top of the bank is
to be a non-disturbance zone. The Conservation Advisory Council questions the legality
of the deer fence, which is restricting the movement of wildlife. In our field notes we have
a deer fence with a question mark. And there are also some cedars that were trimmed
that we noticed. They were kind of over-trimmed. They were lopped off pretty Iow.
Is there anyone here to comment on this application?
MS. HEYSE: My name is Denise Heyse, I'm here to represent Rob Horvath. I'm from
Chuck Thomas' office. I missed what you read about the project description. Is it the
same as in the agenda? This is what you read?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes.
MS. HEYSE: Okay.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: He was just commenting and the other comments
he made was from the LWRP and Conservation Advisory Council.
MS. HEYSE: Okay, I missed them all.
TRUSTEE KING: It was found consistent with our LWRP. Which is a
good sign. And the comments from the Conservation Advisory
Council questioned, there were questions about the deer fence
and the area between the bulkhead and top of the bank. They want
to see it left as a non-disturbance area. So it's already been
disturbed, I think. And the deer fence, we talked about the deer
fence. I don't think anybody really had a huge issue with it.
It's below the top of the bank. We have allowed swimming pool
fences in that location.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I think we just need to add it to the
description of the application.
TRUSTEE KING: They are still finding their way in, might be
their learned how to open the gate.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes, there were plenty of footprints of deer
around there.
MS. HEYSE: Smart deer around here.
TRUSTEE KING: Maybe they knew the gate cede.
MS. HEYSE: It just has the automatic.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think we had any questions about the
additions. Other than the fact it's a good-size house now.
MS. HEYSE: He just wants to make, I don't know, the plans
include a second-story addition, and it is landward of the
existing house. Like on that bump out at the back of the house,
that one-story kind of den room, I don't know if you have -- see
there is a little -- yes, up there. It's setback five feet on
the front and about four feet on the side, kind of setback off
that corner. He wants to make it, reconfigure a master bedroom
upstairs. Not adding a bedroom, but they are moving them around.
They want to, you know, they want to come out here and stay once
they figure out how to pay everything off, and come out here and
stay for good. That's why they want to do the addition. So the
second-story addition, I think it's about 200 square feet of
living area. I don't know if you guys can see. There is an
existing, this is the second floor plan. The existing first
floor, this is the existing first floor balcony below, you see
the railing there. He wants to take, this is where the house is
now, we see the wall, he wants to take it and do this, so.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: He is just extending to the side.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: As depicted on the plans, correct?
MS. HEYSE: Yes. And I'll show you the elevation.
Board of Trustees 22 February 16, 2011
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We are looking at the same one.
MS. HEYSE: This is the existing wall here, so.
TRUSTEE KING: Doesn't look like a huge addition.
MS. HEY'SE: Because when you opened the meeting, you were talking
about second floor additions that don't get mentioned and you
have an impact because it's a construction site.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: No, you have, what we were talking about
earlier, we had approved a second-floor addition, something that
came in like this, and it's been approved and the construction
started and now the people want to change the roof line from,
they decided they want to put a deck instead of having a roof
and do they need to come back to us, because it's in the same
footprint.
MS. HEYSE: Okay.
TRUSTEE KING: Do we have any pictures of the tree tops that were
lopped down, so people know what we are talking about?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: There is that one and that one.
TRUSTEE KING: See how those trees have all been topped? It's
kind of a little excessive.
MS. HEYSE: I didn't look over the edge of the bluff, so that
would be information I have to take back to the owner.
TRUSTEE KING: I know that's not your doing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That's not an approved horticultural measure
for cedars.
MS. HEYSE: I wonder if he knows it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: If you could let your client know not to cut
those down again, just let them grow naturally.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I don't know if they'll grow anymore.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: They are finished.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Because that's subject to a violation.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Maybe we want to make it, re-plant that area.
TRUSTEE KING: Lori said that's a violation. They may get a visit
from the bay constable on that, now.
MS. HEYSE: It's a violation from the Trustees?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Right.
TRUSTEE KING: And code violation.
MS. HEYSE: You don't contact him through us, you would contact
him directly?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: The process is that our bay constable is our
enforcement agency. The bay constable will write the violation
and hand it to the owner of the property.
MS. HEYSE: The owner is in Garden City.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So they would have to get in touch with them
and hopefully the owner will be amenable to come out here and
receive the violation. If not, there are other ways to get it
done, but it's less expensive and easier if they come out one
weekend and just stop at the police station and make an
appointment and get the fine.
MS. HULSE: They can have an agent accept service of the
violation, if they want. An agent can accept service.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: They can say you can accept service for them.
MS. HEYSE: So the bay constable could talk to me.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes. But the owners have to state that in
writing and then they don't have to come out. You could accept
it. Not in your name, it would still be in their name.
MS. HEYSE: Would the violation have recommendations what they
Board of Trustees 23 February 16, 2011
would have to do to satisfy it?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: No. Then you get a court date with that and you
go to court or discuss it with Lori. And there is a fine with
that and then in that discussion in the resolution of the
violation, there will be recommendations to leave it alone or
replant or, you know.
MS. HEYSE: Was it a view, were they cut? Were they in a view or
something? I can't even tell. It was below the edge of the
bluff.
TRUSTEE KING: Not at that height. That is well below. It's not
like it was obstructing view.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It might be that the deer ate it and they
thought about cutting it down and let it regrow.
MS. HEYSE: I just want to know so I could talk to them.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Who knows what the reason was.
TRUSTEE KING: The only question I have now, can we proceed with
this application?
MS. HULSE: You can because there is no pending violation.
TRUSTEE KING: If there is a pending violation we would not be
able to move forward on this.
MS. HULSE: What will happen, to let you know, is he'll drop the
violation before this gets issued, so you have to just clear it
up before you actually get it in hand.
MS. HEYSE: All right. Very good. I didn't put a drainage pool, I
don't think I showed a drywell, and I know the site needs to
have drainage. You have always asked for it and I would not want
- there is a brick, it shows a round brick and it doesn't say
whether it's a pool or anything. And I know --
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I thought I saw the leaders going into -
MS. HEYSE: Right there, you mean? In the picture going straight
down?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: You know what, Bob, I think there was. But on
the corner here there was not.
MS. HEYSE: The new construction, it has to be connected, because
the bay matters.
TRUSTEE KING: Okay, any other comments from anybody?
(No response).
Board comment?
(No response).
I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application, We
need to see drywells on the plans for roof runoff. And I guess
we can include the deer fence in this application to legitimize
the deer fence?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Sure, it's on the plans.
TRUSTEE KING: And there will be probably a violation issued, for
the trimming that was done, in the future here.
MS. HEYSE: Right.
TRUSTEE KING: Other than that, the additions were pretty
straightforward. I don't think anybody had a problem with it.
So I would make a motion to approve with those stipulations.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Any further Board discussions on this?
Board of Trustees 24 February 16, 20! 1
(No response).
All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Madam President, can I take leave of the
Board now; I'm going to try to make that training at the
firehouse. They'll lock the firehouse in about ten minutes.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes.
(Trustee Bredemeyer leaves the hearings. The time noted is 7:22).
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Number seven, Costello Marine Contracting Corp., on behalf of
SOUTHOLD SHORES BOAT BASIN requests a Wetland Permit to disconnect existing
water and electric on dock; remove existing 3'6"x14' wooden access ramp, existing 5x93'
main floating dock section, new 32"x14' aluminum access ramp and three new 10"
diameter anchor pilings; reconnect existing water and electrical services on the dock.
Located: Blue Marlin Drive, Southold.
This is this was reviewed under LWRP and found to be exempt. The
Conservation Advisory Council went out and looked at this and the Conservation
Advisory Council resolved to support the application. The Board went out and looked at
this, and is there anybody here to speak on behalf of this application?
MR. COSTELLO: Yes, Jack Costello, on behalf of the applicant.
This is a straight up replacement of the existing main pier
there.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Jack, I was look can at description of what was
removed and what was going in and it looked identical except for
the width of the ramp. The existing ramp is listed as 3'6"x14'
and this is 32 inches by 14. Is that correct or is there a
clerical error someplace?
MR. COSTELLO: It is actually going to be 36x14. On this plan,
this dock, I guess our drawing guy drew the 32" as stock size.
But it's 36
TRUSTEE BERGEN: 36". I just want to make sure the description
was accurate here for us. And it looked like, when we went out
and looked at it, it looked like, as described, it was identical
to what was there before, right?
MR. COSTELLO: Right. And the DEC had no problems with it.
TRUSTEE KING: That was one of the questions I had, where were
you are with the DEC permit.
MR. COSTELLO: They sent it right back. No problems.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: How quickly?
MR. COSTELLO: Very quickly, on that one.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Anybody else here in the audience who wanted to
speak for or against this application?
(No response).
Were there any other comments from the Board regarding this
applicetion?
MR. YOUNG: I have a note, with respect to the catch basin, there
is a question mark. The folks that went out and visited this
raised a question about the catch basin. Has that been
identified?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I don't see any catch basin on the plans here.
Maybe they are talking at the end of Blue Marlin Drive, which is
not part of this project. Is there a town catch basin there that
might be an issue that the Conservation Advisory Council had?
MR. YOUNG: I think the issue was in raising that as a question
that might be referred, perhaps, to the town.
Board of Trustees 25 February 16, 2011
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Because, I'm sorry, I don't see one on the
property here at all. So I don't think it's a property owner issue.
MR. YOUNG: Okay.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Jack, I also see on the cross section, utility
pedestals. Is there any lighting proposed with the utility
pedestals?
MR. COSTELLO: Well, there is the ones that are existing there
are the ones that are going back on. I'm actually going to strip
the deck.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That's electric service, but I want to make sure
that the lighting, if there is any lighting that is going to be
there, that it complies with Town Code.
MR. COSTELLO: It will look exactly like what is there.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It says reconnect existing water and electric
services that is there. So,
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Lori, did the town pass the new lighting code?
I think it was dark skies code?
MS. HULSE: Yes.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I just want to just make sure this complies with
that code. Do we have a number for that code?
MS. HULSE: Do you want me to check it?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes, so we can put it in. Like we had with 236.
So we can do the same thing with the lighting, that it will
comply with.
MS. HULSE: Sorry, I don't have the update, Dave. I can certainly
check, if you want me to. I can check tomorrow.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Just say make is sure it complies with current
lighting code.
MS. HULSE: Okay.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: If there are no other comments from the Board
I'll make a motion to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'll make a motion to approve the application of
Costello Marine Contracting on behalf of Southold Shores Boat
Basin, as described, with one change described as 32"x14'
aluminum access ramp and that should be 36"x14' aluminum access
ramp, and that this will comply with this current Southold Town
lighting code, and it was found exempt under the LWRP.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Any further Board discussion on it?
(No response).
All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Number eight, Costello Marine Contracting,
Corp., on behalf of GLEBE ASSOCIATES, LLC, requests a Wetland
Permit to install ten new steel beam support columns beneath
building; reconstruct existing concrete corner support pier and
install new heavy timber support beams; construct 50' of new
vinyl bulkhead wall under front edge of existing building;
reconstruct fallen portion of existing south rock wall inplace.
Located: 5775 West Mill Road, Mattituck.
This was found consistent with the LWRP, and the
Conservation Advisory Council supports the application with the
condition storm water runoff issues are addressed. The Board
Board of Trustees 26 February 16, 2011
went out there and looked at this pipe. Is this on town property?.
TRUSTEE KING: That's on their property. This is the Old Mill
restaurant down on the west side of the Mattituck Creek, for the
record.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So that needs to be addressed.
MR. COSTELLO: Where is the water -- I mean, I see the pipe is
coming through their bulkhead, but --
TRUSTEE KING: This is going to be an issue right now, I can tell
everybody right now, because the Highway Department will say you
can't close that off.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Our, I talked to --
MR. COSTELLO: We are not putting a bulkhead there. All our work
now will be in the area of the building. The structure is
supporting the building. So we are not even addressing that.
TRUSTEE KING: I thought they were going to replace that bulkhead
there.
MR. COSTELLO: Not on this application.
TRUSTEE KING: Oh, that's too bad.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: 50 foot of new vinyl bulkhead.
MR. COSTELLO: Isn't that in the area of the building itself?
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think so. I think that includes that.
Maybe I'm wrong. Happens all the time.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: In any case, I talked to Jim McMahon. He's
aware of the town's failing of their bulkhead in that corner,
and our plan is to, whatever is approved here, is to copy
Highway Department and DPW with a cover letter saying the work
will be done here and possibly can be coordinated with the town
and maybe, you know, talk to you and maybe get the town to get
some drainage work in there at the same time.
MR. COSTELLO: Right. Because as of right now I know what the
major thing is getting the restaurant operational for the
season. Because they don't feel comfortable with the way it is
right now. That aspect of the bulkhead is not really -
TRUSTEE KING: I see what you mean.
MR. COSTELLO: It's certainly, down the road, has to be addressed.
TRUSTEE KING: Now is the time to do it, though.
MR. COSTELLO: Yes. The permit would expire by the time that got
addressed considering the amount of money they have to spend
supporting that building. That will happen over the course of
the next four years, that aspect of the project. And we could
further investigate where that comes from. Because, you know, in
relation to that pipe, I don't know where the property line is
and where that is actually coming from.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Like I said, we'll be in contact.
MR. COSTELLO: Because, like I said, right now that aspect of the
project will not even be addressed. I don't want that to
interfere with this.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Sure. I understand. But we'll look into that.
That's always been an area that we want on our storm water
runoff with the town. So now is the time for us to open up
discussion with the other town members, so.
MR. COSTELLO: Ideally is we'll get a full blanket permit for
everything, but the fact of the matter is it is kind of a sticky
spot. There is not a lot of room there. But we have to get the
Board of Trustees 27 February 16, 2011
building situated.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Okay.
TRUSTEE KING: So the bulkhead is only going underneath the
building itself.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes
MR. COSTELLO: Yes, on the land side of the building.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We really had no other questions. Does the
Board have any other questions?
(No response).
TRUSTEE KING: No. Just too bad you couldn't bulkhead the whole perimeter of the
building and fill it.
MR. COSTELLO: If you get me a DEC permit, we'll do it.
TRUSTEE KING: That would be the proper way to fix that building.
MR. COSTELLO: But I don't think that would fly with the DEC.
TRUSTEE KING: No, they would consider it filling in a waterway.
It's too bad.
MR. COSTELLO: Exactly.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Hearing no other comment, I'll make a motion to
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
I'll make a motion to approve the application of Costello Marine
Contracting on behalf of Glebe Associates as submitted.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Any other Board discussion?
(No response).
It's came in consistent with LWRP.
All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
MR. COSTELLO: Thank you, have a good evening.
TRUSTEE DOPIER'I-Y: I make a motion to go off public hearing agenda
and back on the regular agenda.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So moved.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Dave, do you want to do that?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes. We need to go back to -- bear with me for a
second. Under Resolutions and Administrative permits, section
four, number one, DOUGLAS GEROWSKI, where we approved an
administrative permit to remove and replace existing decks and
fence around the inground swimming pool.
It has been brought to my attention that there is no permit
for this pool or the house. So this should not be an
administrative permit. This should be actually a full permit
application submitted for this. So I have been asked to put to a
vote rescinding the Administrative Permit to remove and replace
the existing deck and fence around the inground swimming pool.
TRUSTEE KING: So there is no - it's not a permitted structure?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: It's not a permitted structure, but they are
requesting an Administrative Permit. So they are requesting a
permit.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: They are requesting an Administrative Permit
for a portion of the structure that is there and we need to
really review all the structures there, and do all the
Board of Trustees 28 February 16, 2011
structures qualify as a full permit.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: But they are not applying for anything more than
the deck, which is a separate structure, and the wood fence is a
separate structure. And would a deck and a fence come under
the, fall under the guidelines of Administrative Permit. No.
The pool and the house would be a full permit, but they are not
asking for the pool and the house.
MS. HULSE: You can't piecemeal it like that, Dave. You can't
segment the different issues like that. It's not advisable, anyway.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: They are making the fence attached to the pool.
It's not like they are in a separate section of the yard.
MS. HULSE: If they had permits for those, they would have come
in for an amendment to those permits.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Correct. And they didn't. They just came in for
a simple Administrative Permit because it was just a deck and fence.
MS. HULSE: Right.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: But it's attached to an unpermitted structure.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: If that's the opinion of the Board.
MS. HULSE: It's my opinion. They need to come for a full permit.
They have nothing right now.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I understand that. That's what I'm saying, if
it's the opinion of the Board that we have to rescind the permit.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: How old is the structure?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That, I don't know. I don't know how long the
house has been there. I don't know how long the pool has been
there. I mean, if there were - so we are now asking for the
option of a full permit, Wetland Permit, then for the pool,
house, deck, fence? And what, say no, tell him to tear it down?
I mean.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: No, they just have to come in and go through
the process and get the structure permitted. It's just like if
someone built a dock prior to Trustee permit, now they want to
come in and repair the ramp, they have to come in for a permit
for the whole structure before they repair the ramp. That's how
I see it.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I could understand it, because it's akin to what
we did with the hotel tonight.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Right. So I think the simplest, cleanest way to
do this is to rescind this and request that they come in for a
full permit for all the structures. That would be the cleanest
way to do it, for the record.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: But, this is just myself, I mean, we have all
the time, people coming in for administrative permits on
properties where the house and accessory structures were
pre-existing, in other words, before Trustee jurisdiction, and
we don't require them to get those permitted first before we
approve other --
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: If it's attached to what we are doing, we do.
If it's separated -- like if this fence was on the other side of
the house and had nothing to do with the pool, I would agree
with you, an Administrative Permit. But it's attached to the
decking that is also attached to the pool. So it's pad of the
structure.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So if we get application for somebody to put a
deck on their house, and the house is within our jurisdiction
and was never permitted, then we'll say no, you have to come
Board of Trustees 29 February 16, 2011
back to us and get the whole house permitted?
TRUSTEE KING: I think we should listen to legal counsel, is my
opinion.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: It's no problem. Like I said, if there is --
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: That's different, doing a deck on to a house.
These are accessory structures. This is not a house adding a
deck. It's an accessory structure, and we are only permitting
half the accessory structure. We should be permitting the whole
accessory structure. We are piecemealing the accessory
structure. That's how I see it.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: And if we were to, knowing this now, if we go
ahead and do this, it would de facto legitimize what is there
already.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Right.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Which we have had come up in the past.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Because if this is an old pool, we'll have the
opportunity to say do you have drywells, backwash and all that,
and add that to it.
MS. STANDISH: If you don't mind, if I could just say something.
I think sometimes part of the problem is that when you get the
application, if you look at the second page of the application,
the left-hand side, it tells you what is permitted and what is
not. That right there is a red flag as to how you want to
handle, if you want to incorporate that into the permit. Then
if you catch it, let the applicant know before they get to the
meeting and they can amend their application at that time.
Maybe, maybe not. It might be too late already. Or you can
require a full permit. But we don't know -- we accept
Administrative Permit applications and we are telling them that,
look, we can accept it as Administrative, there is a chance it
may change to a full permit if it doesn't meet the criteria of
once they inspect. But it's very important to really look at
the application and see what they are telling you. He indicates on the
application that he only has a permit for the cesspool, now what do you
want to do.
MS. HULSE: It's the applicant's burden to know what he needs a
permit for. If you are going to segment out like that, you'll
create a lot of problems down the read and, legally, it's
inadvisable to do that. It's not that difficult.
MS. STANDISH: And I can't stress enough to really look at the
application. There is information in there that gets missed
a lot of times and we ask these questions for good reason.
TRUSTEE KING: Okay, do you want to make a motion?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I believe there was a motion to rescind this permit.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is that your motion?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Okay, I'll make the motion to rescind the
permit, the Administrative Permit of Douglas Gerowski, as
approved previously this evening.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(Trustee Doherty, aye. Trustee Ghosio, aye. Trustee King, aye).
(Trustee Bergen, nay).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Well --
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That's it, it carries.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Because you made the motion, then you voted no
on it. Is that --
Board of Trustees 30 February 16, 2011
TRUSTEE KING: That's an unusual strategy.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I mean, we can certainly rescind the vote and
have somebody else make a motion. That's fine. if that's what
you are comfortable with, yes.
TRUSTEE KING: It's not logical.
TRUSTEE DOHERTy: That motion was not carried. So how -- for the
record, Lori, should I just make another motion or do we have to
rescind what was there?
MS. HULSE: You have to rescind. You already voted on it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I make a motion to rescind the motion, the
previous motion to rescind.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Now I'll make a motion to rescind the motion to
approve that was made earlier this evening in order for the
applicant to come in for a full permit.
TRUSTEE KING: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is there any further discussion?
(No response).
Role call vote. Trustee Bergen?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Nay.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Trustee King?
TRUSTEE KING: Aye.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Aye. Trustee Ghosio?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Aye.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Motion was carried to rescind this
Administrative Permit in order to come in for a full permit for
all accessory structures on the property that is within our
jurisdiction.
MS. STANDISH: Does that include the dock? You want them to apply for a
full permit for everything; dock, shed, deck, house, pool?
TRUSTEE KING: If there is no permit on the dock, we could look
at it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Everybody will have to get a full permit now.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Let's save that discussion for a work session.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: You can tell them to come in for all the
structures, but the dock doesn't have to be included with this.
Because that's not attached to the accessory structures. Because
at this point if he's not doing anything with the dock, he
doesn't need a permit for it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So the dock will be a non-permitted structure
still, so if he wants to do repairs on it, he can't.
TRUSTEE KING: He should be informed of that.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: That's what i'm saying to Lauren.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'm going right where Jim is.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: He doesn't need to add that to it but he needs
to know it is not a permitted structure.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So he can't do repairs to it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: But it's his choice.
MS, HULSE: Jill. have you closed this hearing?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: No, not yet. I make a motion to adjourn the
meeting,
TRUSTEE GHOSlO: Second.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All in favor?
(ALL AYES).
Board of Trustees 31 February 16, 2011
Respectfully submitted by,
RECEIVED
APR 1
Southold Town Clerk
Wa]~ne ~alante Stenographic Services
631.835.7882