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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-11/30/2010ELIZABETH A. NEVILLE TOWN CLERK REGISTRAR OF VITAL STATISTICS MARRIAGE OFFICER RECORDS MANAGEMENT OFFICER FREEDOM OF INFORMATION OFFICER Town Hall, 53095 Main Road PO Box 1179 Southold, NY 11971 Fax (631) 765-6145 Telephone: (631) 765 - 1800 southoldtown.northfork.net OFFICE OF THE TOWN CLERK SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD REGULAR MEETING MINUTES November 30, 2010 7:30 PM A Regular Meeting of the Southold Town Board was held Tuesday, November 30, 2010 at the Meeting Hall, 53095 Main Road, Southold, NY. Supervisor Russell opened the meeting at 7:30 PM with the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. Call to Order 7:30 PM Meeting called to order on November 30, 2010 at Meeting Hall, 53095 Route 25, Southold, NY. I. Reports 1. Town Clerk 2. NYS Dept of Agriculture & Markets Dog Control 3. Recreation Department 4. Claim Lag Report 5. Monthly Budget Report 6. Judge Price Monthly Report II. Public Notices 1. Suffolk County Shellfish Aquaculture Lease Program in Peconic & Gardiners Bays 2. NYS DEC Notice of Complete Application III. Communications IV. Discussion 1. 9:00 AM Meyran Coastal Erosion Appeal 2. Fishers Island Sewer District 3. Animals in Residential Districts 4. Purchase of Noise Meters 5. Push Bars on Police Cars 6. Animal Shelter 7. Farm Stand Code Revisions 8. License Agreement November 30, 2010 Page 2 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes 9. Donation from Raynor-Morrelly Fund 10. Executive Session- Labor 11. Executive Session - Litigation 12. 11:30 Executive Session- Jim Dinizio V. Resolutions Opening Comments SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Please rise and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. Thank you. Would anyone like to address the Town Board on any of the agenda items? (No response) Okay let's move on. 2010-922 CA TEGOR Y: Audit DEPARTMENT: Town Clerk Approve Audit RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby approves the audit dated November 30~ 2010. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-922 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland v0t~r [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [3 [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans initia~0r [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-923 CA TE GO R Y: DEPARTMENT: Set Meeting Town Clerk Set Meeting for December 14 2010 at 4.'30 PM RESOLVED that the next Regular Town Board Meeting of the Southold Town Board be held, Tuesday, December 14, 2010 at the Southold Town Hall, Southold, New York at 4:30 P. M.. November 30, 2010 Page 3 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes Vote Record -Resolution RES-2010-923 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated yes/AYe No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled Wdliam Rulm~d Voter [] [3 F1 [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [3 [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-894 Tabled 11/4/2010 7:00 PM, 11/16/2010 4:30 PM CA TE GORY: Grants DEPARTMENT: Public Works Accept Bid Laurel Lake Demolition & Debris Removal Fiscal Impact: This project is fimded in fidl by a grant from the NYS Qffice of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. TO BE WITHDRAWN RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby accepts the bid of Dirtworks (Scott Corwin) to remove a dock~ concrete block building and a concrete block foundation, at the Laurel Lake Preserve in the amount of $8,350. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-894 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. [] [3 [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-895 Tabled 1 l/4/2010 7.'00 PM, 11/16/2010 4:30 PM CA TEGOR Y: Grants DEPARTMENT: Public Works Contract Laurel Lake Demolition & Debris Removal Fiscal Impact: This project is funded in full by a grant from NYS Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation for improvements to the Laurel Lake Preserve November 30, 2010 Page 4 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes TO BE WITHDRAWN RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs Supervisor Scott A. Russell to execute an Agreement with Dirtworks~ Inc. (Scott Corwin) in connection the removal of a dock, concrete block building and concrete block foundation, in the amount of $8,350, as per the Request for Proposals dated October 5, 2010, all in accordance with the approval of the Town Attorney. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-895 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Y~s/AYe N~Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans [] [] [] [2 [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-924 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Special Events Town Clerk Approve the Issuance of a Fireworks Permit by the Town Clerk to Greenport Holiday Committee on December 31, 2010 at 12.'00 Midnight, on the Shelter Island Sound in Greenport RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southotd hereby approves the issuance of a fireworks permit by the Town Clerk to Greenport Holiday Committee on December 31~ 2010 at 12:00 midnight, on the Shelter Island Sound in Greenport, upon payment ora fee of $100, subject to the applicant's compliance with the requirements of the Town's policy regarding the issuance of fireworks permits and subject to the approval of the Town Attorney. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-924 [~ Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye N0!Nay Absta!n Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [3 [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Cbristopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [2 [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-925 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Attend Seminar Police Dept November 30, 2010 Page 5 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes Rescind Seminar Police - Det Steven Harned RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby rescinds resolution 2010- 885, adopted at the November 4, 2010 meeting in its entirety, as the class was full, which read as follows: RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby grants permission to Detective Steven Hamed to attend a Taser Technician and Evidence Collection Analysis Course at the Suflblk County Sheriff's Academy in Brentwood, New York, November 15th through November 17th, 2010. All expenses for registration and travel to be a legal charge to the 2010 Police Training Budget Line. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-925 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supe~Msor's Appt Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] : [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Alb~ Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-926 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Contracts, Lease & Agreements Recreation Hire Winter Recreation Program Instructors Resolved that the Town Board of the Town of Southold authorize and direct Supervisor Scott A. Russell to execute an agreement with the following individuals and businesses for the Winter 2011 recreation programs, all in accordance with the approval of the town attorney. Funding for the instructors listed below has been budgeted for in the recreation department's 2011 instructor line A7020.4.500.420. Lynda Agrusso (guitar) .............................................. $30/hour Antoinette Beck-Witt (drawing class) ..................................... $30/hour Linda Berger (Watercolor) ......................................... $30/bour Thomas Boucher (guitar) ....................................................... $30/hour Eugenia Cherouski (folk dancing) ......................................... $30/hour Paula Croteau (cooking & baking) ............................... $30/hour Mary Dempsey (English as a second language) ..................... $30/hour Lenora Dome (belly dancing) ................................................ $30/hour Martha Eagle (Aerobics/Pilates/Yoga/Power Stretching) ...... $30/hour East End Insurance Services (Defensive Driving) ................. $30/person Bill Gatz (youth basketball) ...................................... $30/hour Denise Gillies (Tai Chi) ............................................ $30/hour November 30, 2010 Page 6 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes Gall Horton (Rug Hooking) ...................................... $30/hour Rosemary Martilotta (yoga) ................................................... $55/class Judy McCleery (digital photography) ............................ $30/hour Darren Mignone (Hula Hoop Fitness Program) ................ $30/hour Riverside Gymnastics (gymnastics program) ................... $50/person Elizabeth Schaeffier (stained glass) .............................. $30/hour Laurie Short (aerobics classes) ............................................... $30/hour Steve Smith (weight training) ................................................. $30/hour Jocelyn Suglia (youth basketball) ................................. $30/hour Kathleen Tergesen (girls basketball) .............................. $20/hour Barbara Terranova (hiking, knitting, bib making) ............... $3 O/hour Touch Dancing Studios (ballroom dancing) ............................. $65/person Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-926 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland S~ohder [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Initiator [] [] [] 13 [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-927 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Bid Acceptance Fishers Island Ferry District Ratify and Approve the Resolution qf the FIFD Board of Commissioners Accepting the Bid of Seaport Communications to Furnish and Install the Proposed Electronic Equipment RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby ratifies and approves the resolution of the Fishers Island Ferry District Board of Commissioners dated November 17, 2010 accepting the bid of Seaport Communications of Stonington, CT to furnish and install the proposed electronic equipment as outlined in the Homeland Security Grant #2009-PU-R1- 0361 for the amount of $60,604.00. Amount of the total grant is not to exceed $76,500.00 and work is to be completed by April 1,2011. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-927 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Dei~ated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supe~Msor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [3 Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action November 30, 2010 Page 7 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes 2010-928 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Bid Acceptance Fishers Island Ferry District Ratify and Approve the Resolution of the FIFD Board of Commissioners to Accept the Bid of Hale Propeller RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby ratifies and approves the resolution of the Fishers Island Ferry District Board of Commissioners dated November 17, 2010 to accept the bid of Hale Propeller to furnish and deliver a 3 bladed propeller, as specified, for the amount of $6,800.00. Vote Record - Resolution RES~2010-928 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt C~st0pher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-929 CA TEGOR Y: DEPARTMENT: Bid Acceptance Fishers Island Ferry District Ratify and Approve the Resolution pf the F1FD to Accept the Bid of Marine Machining RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby ratifies and approves the resolution of the Fishers Island Ferry District Board of Commissioners dated November 17, 2010 to accept the bid of Marine Machining to furnish and deliver a 4" X 25'6" propeller shaft, as specified, for the amount of $7,723.00. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-929 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/AYe N0fNay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr, Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] 13 [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] 0 [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-930 CA TEGOR Y: Budget Modification November 30, 2010 Page 8 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes DEPARTMENT: Justice Court Budget Modification for Justice Department Fiscal Impact: Due to the large amount ofjury trials' held in 2010 the Court Reporter line was depleted RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the General Fund Whole Town Justice Department 2010 budget as follows: From: A.1110.1.200.100 A.1110.1.100.200 Regular Earnings/Part time Employees Overtime Earnings $2500.00 $1500.00 $4000.00 To-' A. 1110.4.500.200 Court Reporters $4000.00 Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-930 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Resch~ded Louisa P Evans Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-931 CA TEGOR Y: Re fund DEPARTMENT: Town Clerk Authorize a Partial Retired in the Amount of $350. O0 to Claudia ~ and Julien Ramone RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes a partial refund in the amount of $350.00 to Claudia J. and Julien Ramone[ the application before the Zoning Board of Appeals has been withdrawn. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-93 I [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supe~Msor's Appt Christopber Talbot Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Seconder : [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt SCOtt Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action November 30, 2010 Page 9 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes 2010-932 CA TEGOR Y: DEPARTMENT: Employment - Town Accounting Terminate Employment 0 'Keefe WltEREAS, the Board of Commissioners of the Fishers Island Ferry District adopted a resolution at a Special Meeting of the Commissioners on November 19 terminating the employment of Conal O'Keefe, Deckhand (FIFD), effective immediately and WHEREAS the Town Board of the Town of Southold is required to approve appointments and salary adjustments of employees of the Fishers Island Ferry District, now therefore be it RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby terminates the employment of Conal O'Keefe, Deckhand (FIFD), effective immediately. Vote ReCord ~ Resolution REs-2010-932 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot V0te~ [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krapski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-933 CA TE GO R Y: DEPARTMENT: Property Acquisition Purchase Land Preservation Girards SEQRA & Elect to Purchase WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Southold held a public hearing on the question of the purchase of a development rights easement on a certain parcel of property owned by 6900 Wickham Avenue, LLC (Girards) on the 24th day of August, 2010, at which time all interested parties were given the opportunity to be heard; and WHEREAS, at the request of the Seller, the Town Board's resolution to purchase the development rights easement was tabled at the Town Board meetings of August 24, 2010, September 7, 2010, September 21, 2010 and October 5, 2010, and withdrawn at the October 19, 2010 meeting; and WHEREAS, on November 17, 2010, the Seller requested that the Town proceed with the same purchase as set forth in the August 24, 2010 public hearing; and WHEREAS, said property is identified as part of SCTM #1000-107.-10-10.1. The address is November 30, 2010 Page 10 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes 6900 Wickham Avenue. The property is located in the A-C zoning district and is on the southerly side of Wickham Avenue, approximately 963.50 feet from the southwesterly intersection of County Road 48 and Wickham Avenue in Mattituck, New York; and WHEREAS, the development rights easement comprises a part of the property consisting of approximately 8.26± acres (subject to survey) of the 10.1± acre parcel. The exact area of the development fights easement is subject to a survey acceptable to the Land Preservation Committee and the property owner; and WHEREAS, the easement will be acquired using Community Preservation Funds. The purchase price is $63,000 (sixty-three thousand dollars) per buildable acre for the 8.26± acre easement plus acquisition costs; and WHEREAS, the property is listed on the Town's Community Preservation Project Plan as property that should be preserved due to its agricultural value; and WHEREAS, the purchase of the development rights on this property is in conformance with the provisions of Chapter 17 (Community Preservation Fund) and Chapter 70 (Agricultural Lands Preservation) of the Town Code, and WHEREAS, the proposed action has been reviewed pursuant to Chapter 268 (Waterfront Consistency Review) of the Town Code and Local Waterfront Revitalization Program ("LWRP') and the LWRP Coordinator has recommended that this action is consistent with the LWRP; and WHEREAS, the Land Preservation Committee has reviewed the application for the acquisition, and recommends that the Town Board acquire the development rights easement; and WHEREAS, the Town Board deems it in the best public interest that the Town of Southold purchase the development rights on this agricultural land; and, WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Southold classifies this action as an Unlisted Action pursuant to the SEQRA Rules and Regulations, 6NYCRR 617.1 et. Seq.; and, WHEREAS, the Town of Southold is the only involved agency pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations; and, WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Southold accepted the Short Environmental Form for this project that is attached hereto; now, therefore, be it RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby finds no significant impact on the environment and declares a negative declaration pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations for this action; and, be it further RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby elects to purchase a November 30, 2010 Page 11 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes development rights easement on agricultural land owned by 6900 Wickham Avenue, LLC (Girards), identified as part of SCTM #1000-107.-10-10.1. The proposed action has been reviewed pursuant to Chapter 268 (Waterfront Consistency Review) of the Town Code and the LWRP and the Town Board has determined that this action is consistent with the LWRP. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-933 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-934 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Employment - Town Accounting Accepts the Resignation of Florence Corwin RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby accepts the resignation of Florence Corwin from the position of Seasonal Clerk in the Tax Receiver's Office~ effective November 22, 2010. Vote Record - Resolution RE8-2010-934 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supe~Msor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt A!bert Kmp~k! Jr. Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-935 CA TE GO R Y: DEPARTMENT: Contracts, Lease & Agreements Town Attorney Authorizes Supervisor Scott A. Russell to Provide Written Notification to Care Environmental Corp. that the Town Wishes' to Exercise Its' Option to Renew Its Agreement with Care Environmental to Supply the Town with Household Hazardous Waste (HItW) Removal and Disposal Services through December 31, 2011 November 30, 2010 Page 12 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes Supervisor Scott A. Russell to provide written notification to Care Environmental Corp. that the Town wishes to exercise its option to renew its Agreement with Care Environmental to supply the Town with Household Hazardous Waste (HHW) Removal and Disposal Services through December 31, 2011, at prices specified in Care Environmental's bid of December 24, 2009, and adopted by the Town Board on January 5, 2010, subject to the approval of the Town Attorney. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-93S [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland V~ter [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-936 CA TE GO R Y: DEPARTMENT: Litigation Town Attorney Retains Frank A. Islet, Esq. as Special Counsel in the Supreme Court, Suffolk County Civil Action Entitled "Glenn R. Meyran K Trustees of the Town of Southold" Under Index No. 10-41231 RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby retains Frank A. Isler~ Esq. as Special Counsel in the Supreme Court~ Suffolk CounW, civil action entitled "Glenn R. Meyran v. Trustees of the Town of Southold" under Index No. 10-41231. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-936 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supe~Msor's Appt Christopher Talbot Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-937 CA TEGOR Y: DEPARTMENT: Contracts, Lease & Agreements Town Attorney Amend Resolution No. 2010-857 RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby amends Resolution No. 2010-857 dated October 25~ 2010 to read as follows: November 30, 2010 Page 13 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby accepts the proposal of Bowne Management Company~ Inc. to complete the "Needs Assessment for a Geographical Information System {GIS) for the Town of Southold in the amountof~v,¢a~ tmn .... $36,400.00, all in accordance with the approval of the Town Attorney, and it is FURTHER RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs Supervisor Scott A. Russell to execute and sign the agreement between the Town of Southold and Bowne Management Company, Inc. for this Needs Assessment, all in accordance with the approval of the Town Attorney. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-937 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Panended [] Defeated Yes/Axe No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland initiator [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [] [2] [] [] Supervisors Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-938 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: SWMD Budget Mods Budget Modification Solid Waste Management District Fiscal Impact: Waste oil shelter (Facilities & Grounds); trailer tires; other mods for over-expended lines. RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the 2010 Solid Waste District budget as follows: From: SR 1420.4.500.100 SR 8160.4.100.608 SR 8160.4.100.225 To: SR 1490.1.100.500 SR 8160.4.100.125 SR 8160.4.100.525 SR 8160.4.100.210 SR 8160.4.100.552 SR 8160.4.100.800 Legal Counsel $3,600.00 Urea 1,000.00 Lubricants 630.43 Total: $5,230.43 Admin. Holiday Pay Misc. Supplies Payloader/Truck Tires Propane Fuel Maint-Volvo Loader Maint-Facilities & Grounds $213.05 50.OO 1,000.00 300.00 250.00 3,200.00 November 30, 2010 Page 14 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes SR 8160.4.100.900 SR 8160.4.400.850 Landscaping Supplies Refrigerant Removal Total: 1.38 216.00 $5,230.43 Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-938 ~ Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Supcrvisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr, Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-939 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Close/Use Town Roads Town Clerk Grant Permission to the Mattituck-Cutchogue Cub and Girl Scouts to Close Love Lane, Mattituck Fiscal Impact: Total Police Department Cost for Event = $121.76 RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby grants permission to the Mattituck-Cutchogue Cub and Girl Scouts to close Love Lane, Mattituck between Route 25 and Pike Street for their annual tree trimming and holiday celebration, on Sunday, December 12, 2010 from 3:30 PM to 5:00 PM, provided they file with the Town Clerk a One Million Dollar Certificate of Insurance naming the Town of Southold as an additional insured and contact Capt. Flatley upon receipt of the approval of this resolution to coordinate traffic control. Support is for this year only, as the Southold Town Board continues to evaluate the use of town roads. Fees have been waived for this permit. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-939 ~1 Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled william Ruland Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt AIberi Krupski Jr. Indiator [] F1 FI [] [] Rescinded Louisa P Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-940 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Budget Modification Town Clerk November 30, 2010 Page 15 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes 2010 Budget Modification - TB Fiscal Impact: To cover cost of Town Code Supplement #16 RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the 2010 General Fund Whole Town budget as follows: To~ A.1010.4.100.125 Town Board, C.E. Code Updates & Law Books $2,000 From: A. 1990.4.100.100 Unallocated Contingencies $2,000 Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-940 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay : Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] : [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Seconder [~ [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr Voter [] : [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans hritiator [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-941 CA TE G O R Y: DEPARTMENT: Bid Acceptance Town Clerk Reject All Proposals for Laurel Lake Preserve Clean-U[ RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby re.iects all proposals received for the removal of a wooden dock and concrete block buildings at the Laurel Lake Preserve. Vote ReCOrd - Resolution RES-2010-941 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supe~wisor's Appt Christopher Talbot hfitiator [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [3 [] [3 Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-942 November 30, 2010 Page 16 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes CA TE GO R Y: DEPARTMENT: Coastal Erosion Town Attorney Reopens the Record on the Amended Coastal Erosion Hazard Board of Review Appeal qf Robert G. Bombara, Relating to a Proposed New Single-Family Dwelling. Garage and Swimming Pool Proposed to be Located at 1725 North Sea Drive, Southold, SCTM (41000-54-4-19 RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby reopens the record on the Amended Coastal Erosion Hazard Board of Review Appeal of Robert G. Bombara~ relating to a proposed new single-family dwellinu, oara~e and swimmin~ oool orooosed to be located at 1725 North Sea DriveI Southold~ SCTM #1000-54-4-19 for the limited purpose of accepting two letters from Peter S. Danowski, Jr., Esq., dated October 13, 2010 and November 12, 20t0, and the attachments thereto. The record shall remain open for 30 days to allow the Town and other interested parties an opportunity to respond to said letters and shall be deemed closed as of December 30, 2010. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-942 ~1 Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincem Orlando Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albel~ Kmpski Jr. Voter [] O [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action 2010-943 CA TE GO R Y: DEPARTMENT: Property Acquisition Purchase Land Preservation Sill SEQRA & Elect to Purchase WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Southold held a public hearing on the question of the purchase of fee title to certain properties, owned now or formerly by Julia Sill, or from The Nature Conservancy as Contract Vendee of the property owned by Julia Sill, on the 30d~ day of November, 2010, at which time all interested parties were given the opportunity to be heard; and WHEREAS, said properties are identified as SCTM #1000-45-5-3 and SCTM #1000-45-5-4. The addresses of the properties are, respectively, 70282 Route 25 and 70284 Route 25 in Greenport, New York. The properties are, respectively, located within the LiO (Light Industrial Park/Planned Office) and R-80 (Low Density Residential) Zoning Districts; and WHERESAS, the proposed acquisition is for the Town to acquire fee title to the entire area of the two properties known as the Sill Property, totaling 23.5+, acres for passive open space purposes. The exact area of the purchase is subject to a Town provided survey; and November 30, 2010 Page 17 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes WHEREAS, the Seller has reserved a life estate for Julia Sill on that portion of SCTM # 1000-45- 5-3 that contains the house and lawn; and WHEREAS, the purchase price is $488,000 for SCTM 1000-45-5-3, and $50,000 for SCTM# 1000-45-5-4, with the total purchase price being $538,000 (five hundred thirty-eight thousand dollars) for the entire 23.5+_ acre purchase. The purchase will be funded by the Community Preservation Fund; and WHEREAS, the purchase of fee title to these properties for open space purposes is in conformance with the provisions of Chapter 185 (Open Space Preservation) and Chapter 17 (Community Preservation Fund) of the Town Code; and WHEREAS, the properties are listed on the Town's Community Preservation Project Plan as properties that should be preserved for open space, park, nature preserve and passive recreational purposes, fresh and saltwater marsh and wetland protection, and the preservation of undeveloped beach land and shoreline; and WHEREAS, proposed uses of the properties may include the establishment of a nature preserve, passive recreational area with trails and limited parking for access purposes. The properties are adjacent to, and in the vicinity of, other properties preserved within the Pipes Cove Area for similar purposes and use of the properties will be in conjunction with passive recreation uses that may be developed for the Pipes Cove Area. The Town does not intend to continue the residential use of the properties past the term of the life estate and does not intend to keep the residential structure for any future purposes. The Nature Conservancy will be working in partnership with the Town to prepare a Pipes Cove/Arshamomaque Park Stewardship and Management Plan for preserved properties within the Pipes Cove area. Community Preservation Funds will be used for stewardship of the properties with details to be described in the Town's CPF Management and Stewardship Plan; and WHEREAS, as per Chapter 117 (Transfer of Development Rights) of the Code of the Town of Southold, Section 117-5, the Land Preservation Coordinator has estimated that I (one) Sanitary Flow Credit may be available for transfer from the properties upon the Town's purchase of the properties and upon termination of the life estate. The transfer of this Sanitary Flow Credit into the Town TDR Bank will not be finalized, and shall not occur, until the Town closes on the properties, and the Town Board passes a resolution allowing the transfer in the Town TDR Bank; and WHEREAS, the proposed action has been reviewed pursuant to Chapter 268 (Waterfront Consistency Review) of the Town Code and Local Waterfront Revitalization Program ("LWRP") and the LWRP Coordinator has recommended that this action is consistent with the LWRP; and WHEREAS, the Land Preservation Committee has reviewed the application for the acquisition, and recommends that the Town Board acquire fee title to this open space acquisition; and November 30, 2010 Page 18 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes WHEREAS, the Town Board deems it in the best public interest that the Town of Southold purchase fee title on these properties; and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Southold classifies this action as an Unlisted Action pursuant to the SEQRA Rules and Regulations, 6NYCRR 617.1 et. Seq.; and WHEREAS, the Town of Southold is the only involved agency pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations; and WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Southold accepted the Short Environmental Form for this project that is attached hereto; now, therefore, be it RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby finds no significant impact on the environment and declares a negative declaration pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations for this action; and, be it further RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby elects to purchase fee title to certain properties identified as SCTM #I000-45-5-3 and SCTM #1000-45-5-4, owned now or formerly by Julia Sill, or from The Nature Conservancy, as Contract Vendee of the properties owned by Julia Sill. The proposed action has been reviewed pursuant to Chapter 268 (Waterfront Consistency Review) of the Town Code and the LWRP Coordinator and the Town Board has determined that this action is consistent with the LWRP. Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-943 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Initiator [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [] [] [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albea Krapski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [] [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter I~ [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action Comments regarding resolution 943 JUSTICE EVANS: I just want to thank the family members. I think this is really wonderful. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes. I know this has been a lot of back and forth with this and I just want to thank you and of course, Mrs. Sill for the commitment. For the preservation. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Yes, it is a really important parcel down there. It really completes a big block. Thank you. 2010-944 CATEGORY: DEPARTMENT: Property Usage Town Clerk November 30, 2010 Page 19 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes Michael Demchak Elect to Purchase WHEREAS, the Planning Board for the Town of Southold has issued sketch plat plan approval for a Conservation Subdivision on November 15, 2010, pursuant to Section 240-26(A) of the Town Code; and WHEREAS, the Town Board has received a petition from Peter Danowski, Esq. on behalf of Michael Demchak, to establish an open development area pursuant to Chapter 240 of the Town Code; and WHEREAS, pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 240 (Subdivision of Land), Article VIII (Open Development Area), of the Town Code, the Town Board of the Town of Southold held a public hearing on the establishment of an open development area on property owned by Michael Demchak on November 30, 2010, at which time all interested parties were given the opportunity to be heard; and WHEREAS, said property is identified as part of SCTM #1000-84-1-11 and 1000-84-1-12.1, with an address at Oregon Road, Cutchogue. The property is located in the A-C Zoning District and is on the south side of Oregon Road, approximately 252 feet easterly from the intersection of Cox Lane and Oregon Road in Cutchogue, New York; and WHEREAS, the proposed open development area is located on 7.231_+ acres of the 33.9890+ acre parcel and consists of 4 residential lots; and. WHEREAS, the development rights of the remaining 26.67+acres are to be acquired by the Town using Community Preservation Funds and subject to a development rights easement, in accordance with Resolution No. 2010-332; and WHEREAS, the proposed action has been reviewed pursuant to Chapter 268 (Waterfront Consistency Review) of the Town Code and Local Waterfront Revitalization Program (LWRP) and the LWRP Coordinator has recommended that this action is consistent with the LWRP; now, therefore, be it RESOLVED by the Town Board of the Town of Southold that this action be classified as an Unlisted Action pursuant to the SEQRA Rules and Regulations, 6NYCRR 617.1 et. Seq.; and be it further RESOLVED by the Town Board of the Town of Southold that the Town of Southold is the only involved agency pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations; and be it further RESOLVED by the Town Board of the Town of Southold that the Short Environmental Form prepared for this project is accepted and attached hereto; and be it further RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby finds no significant impact on the environment and declares a negative declaration pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations for this action and has determined that the action is consistent with the LWRP; and November 30, 2010 Page 20 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes be it further RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby establishes an open development area consisting of 4 residential lots on approximately 7.231+ acres of the 33.9890+ acre parcel owned by Michael Demchak and hereby authorizes and directs Supervisor Scott A. Russell to execute the approved Open Development Area Map prepared by Howard W. Young, L.S., dated September 27, 2010, withinl 0 days of the date of this resolution and further directs the applicant to file said Map with the Suffolk County Clerk and the Town Clerk within 62 days, in accordance with §240-29(F) of the Town Code. Vote Record -ResoLution RES-2010-944 [] Adopted [] Adopted as Amended [] Defeated Yes/Aye NofNay Abstain Absent [] Tabled William Ruland Voter [] [] [] [] [] Withdrawn Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] F1 [] [] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert ~P~k! ~: ~p[er [] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] 13 [] [] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] [] [] Supt Hgwys Appt [] No Action Motion To: Motion to recess to Public Hearing RESOLVED that this meeting of the Southold Town Board be and hereby is declared Recessed in order to hold a public hearing. RESULT: ADOPTED [UNANIMOUSI MOVER: Louisa P. Evans, Justice SECONDER: William Ruland, Councilman AYES: Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell VI. Public Hearings PH Meyran Coastal Erosion Appeal SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I have a motion to open the Meyran Coastal Erosion Appeal. Would anyone like to address the Town Board? Mr. Lark? RICHARD LARK: Richard Lark, Main Road, Cutchogue, New York. Basically it is my intention to make this presentation to you this morning on behalf of Mr. Meyran and after I am finished, 1 want to call on Andrew Stype who will make a short presentation and then conclude with Mr. Meyran who will give you his remarks on what he has done and what the application is all about and how it concerns him. I note from the legal notice establishing this hearing, they talk for a proposed observation deck on the applicants property at 175 Soundview Avenue in Mattituck. Just for the record and for reasons and facts which will be presented to you, this application if for the restoration of a pre-existing (inaudible) observation deck that exists, not a proposed observation deck. Semantics but you are going to see that as we get into this presentation, there is a lot of semantics because of the codes that are involved here and the lack of standards that we suffered from there on these particular codes. Mr. Meyran, I am going to November 30, 2010 Page 21 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes ask the Board, do you have his original application? Was that given to you in the packet from the Trustees that they were supposed to give as a return to the Board, May 25th? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes, we do. MR. LARK: Because that contains, rather than be repetitive, all the attachments, photographs and everything else that were taken back in the spring and before. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes, this actually, the Board is familiar with the application. Actually some of the Board members went out and looked at the site. MR. LARK: Okay, that is good because and did you, the Board in their package did the Trustee's give you the minutes of the June 16th and the July 21st hearings so that you have those for your review. Because I will be commenting on those and because I haven't seen the return, that is why I am asking these questions and did you have, obviously then you have the decision that the Board of Trustees rendered on July 21, the Board of Trustees. Okay? Curiously enough, does your record contain the memorandum of the LWRP coordinator, Mark Terry, dated June 14th? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes. MR. LARK: Okay. Thank you. And then of course, obviously you have Glen Meyran's application which is before you today in August, okay. And you said, have all the Board members been to the property? Because that would be kind of nice for me to know when I am making this presentation? Has anybody not been to the property? Okay, alright. So that might be a little laborious then, to those, you have been there. Okay. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: No, because actually even though I have been there, I was thinking after the hearing and hear what you have to say, it would probably be beneficial to go out and take another look, just because you might bring something up that we didn't see. MR. LARK: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Krupski, because I was going to ask the Board to reserve decision today to read all of the stuff that I just gave you because it would appear on the surface that this is just a slam dunk, a simple application but due to what happened here which is in the history and I won't go into that but due to what happened, when he ended up applying before the Trustees, he ended up applying not only to Chapter 111, which is why we are here today, but under 275 and they are very parallel but they also have differences to them and it is a nightmare because I have been trying to concentrate the presentation today under 111 and I can't do it. Especially when you compound the law of non-conforming uses on top of it. The case law. Okay. If we were under the zoning code, this would be easy because there are standards set forth. It is very clear what you can do and not do in non-conforming uses. But it is not clear at all and then when you put the consistency law, the waterfront consistency law on top of it, it is a great big headache in how to make the presentation to focus this thing. Okay. I am glad that you have got some understanding of it, okay, like I said, it looks simple but it is not when you consider 111 and 275 and then 268, not to mention the case law that I just referred to. This November 30, 2010 Page 22 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes hearing today though is all about 111. Chapter 111 and paraphrasing it, if the strict application in 111-20 of the restrictions imposed by the Trustees and it creates practical difficulties or unnecessary hardship, then this Board, sitting as a coastal review board can grant relief from those restrictions. But unfortunately, as with me and as with you, you just can't look at 111 all by itself and its actions, you have to look at what is around you, 275 and the coastal 268 alright, but the ultimate legal issue really on all of them is whether or not the Trustees denial of this request to strengthen and restore this pre-existing, non-conforming deck, was an arbitrary and capricious decision. That is really the key issue when you cut through all of it, whether you are going to 275 or 111 or even the consistency. I submit to you that their decision was arbitrary as well as unfair. The initial issue which is really interesting and when you have to read those minutes, it was clear to me five minutes into that so-called public heating, that the Board already made up its mind. That was kind of shocking to me but they are elected officials but they had already made up their mind. At least the record is clear that the President and Mr. Bergen had made up their mind. They are the only two that talk. You will see that throughout it, they are the only ones that talked. And it was just obviously that they had made up their mind because tight at the initial start of the hearing, it didn't even really open yet, he said, we looked at it, it was inconsistent, LWRP said it was inconsistent and we have never granted anything forward or on the coastal erosion hazard line so therefore, that is it. During the presentation, the President obviously got bored, she not only interrupted the presentation once, she interrupted it twice by saying get on it. Basically with the facial expressions, you are wasting our time here. And it was (inaudible). And you will hear Mr. Meyran, he just couldn't get over the whole thing. So you do have that unfairness concept of it and because Bergen kept come back to it and saying that you are trying to do a new deck here and we are not going to allow it. And he just completely ignored the pre-existing status of the deck and there was no point even talking to him about his own rules and regulations that are in his codes that he was applying. And it was kind of interesting as you read it because the two of them operate as a tag team operation. He kept setting her up and he set her up by saying the non-conforming structure was removed and therefore he is applying for construction of an non-conforming structure and then she chimes in and says since it was removed, the black and white, can't be rebuilt. Well, first of all, it is not black and white. Second of all, it was not removed and when you go see it, you will see what they should have seen because it hasn't changed since they were there in June. Okay. And even if it was removed, the law of non-conforming uses allows it to be rebuilt, as long as it wasn't abandoned. The law is clear on that, you can get advice from the town attorney on the case law because we don't have standards on these things. I mean, I have got to go back to the basic case law. Again, it is not black and white because chapter 111 does not prohibit decks on the bluff. And it is interesting, that section, because when I first received this case in late May when they couldn't get their application filed and they were being threatened with fines, I looked at the definitions in 111 and it was an interesting one after I had looked at the property and what Mr. Meyran had done when he was trying to complete, when he was stopped by the constable. And it says periodic replacement and repair of same, this is normal maintenance, of same kind structural elements or protective coatings which do not change the design, size or function of a functioning structure, you are allowed to use normal maintenance and the key was, without a coastal management permit. And that is exactly what Mr. Meyran had been doing and had been doing for the previous 15-20 years, he had been constantly maintaining both the deck and the stairs. And when I made the application, I made it for both the stairs and the deck. They had a November 30, 2010 Page 23 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes pre-existing DEC and Trustees back in 93 for that when the bulkhead was installed but the way they were acting, the Meyran's what they were doing, I applied for both the stairs and the deck at the same time. Well, they granted the stairs said that was consistent but the deck wasn't. So that is why we are here, we are here just strictly for the deck. But that was an interesting thing because when I looked at 275 which they required him to apply on, that clearly prohibits decks on the bluff or near the bluff. Clearly. The section is very black and white on that, that is black and white but then there is this definitional section in 275 that says pre-existing non-permitted and non-conforming structures, a structure or use that is not otherwise permitted, our case, but which is allowed to continue solely because it was lawfully existing prior to the effective date of the original law or ordinance or prior to any subsequent amendment as the case may be, any determination. Then it says that any determination of lawful existence must be reviewed with the laws of that time, which is standard. It was clearly established before the Board that the stairs were built in 73, the deck in 74, it was completed in 75 and it existed since 1975 until today. Okay. So as I said, really not black and white when you review what we had to review under the statute or the codes rather. So, it was interesting when I analyzed what Mr. Bergen was attempting to do, create a fiction saying it was removed and new construction is not allowed. When you do go out to see it, you will see what is there and so I won't have to dwell on that anymore. Third, the case law on non-conforming uses, which they totally ignored, allows a non- conforming structure to be restored, altered, maintained, made stronger if there are no changes which would change the non-conforming status of the structure, which the structure enjoyed. Now this structure came non-conforming under chapter 11 in 1991 when it was adopted by the Town Board. It became non-conforming under 275 in 2004 and under the consistency law in 268, 2004. From that point on, this has been a non-conforming deck. Prior to that, it was okay. But now it is non-conforming. So the law of non-conforming (inaudible) is somewhat fairly complicated and I will defer to the Town Attorney to brief you on that if you get involved in it later on when you are making your decision. But basically, you will find when you read the cases, each case has to be judged on its own facts. That is what is interesting about the law of non-conforming uses. You can read 100 cases but you had better look at two things, the facts of the particular case and what the ordinance that they are applying existed at the time that the court has to apply. So you have two factors going on there, what does the ordinance say or the code say and what are the facts of the case and you really can't end up with an establishment of precedence where you can just quote you know, without anything because you have to look behind what was the decision in each case because they are really kind of refined because a lot of times the court will allow certain things which the boards, municipal boards, didn't allow and other times they will just throw the whole thing out. So it is an interesting law to follow. When they got around to amending our town code on the zoning, they did a good job because whoever did it basically did a (inaudible) of all the laws and really set it forth there, pretty good standards, so you know what the heck you are doing. But we don't have that here and I submit to you and you are going to hear some thoughts from Mr. Stype that what the Board did in denying Mr. Meyran's application basically in toto was confiscatory and therefore, they (inaudible) now you are saying, what's the big deal, an observation deck? Well, it tums out that Mr. Stype will detail it, after he did his analysis without the deck on that particular property and that particular location, his expert opinion that the property is worth $200,000 less than if it had the deck that it had the moment before. What can I say? Facts, facts to back that up, so it will be interesting to hear his presentation. I haven't heard it but that is what his conclusion was. What makes this November 30, 2010 Page 24 Southold Town Board Meeting .Minutes completely confounding and that is why it is not a slam dunk this evening, that we don't have criteria in this 111,275 and 268, we just don't have the criteria. So you are probably going to end up relying a lot on, after you hear Mr. Meyran's presentation, that he didn't do any damage to the environment, to the bluff, of the law of non-conforming uses, that is why I am kind of stressing it here. I think that becomes very, very important because it was completely ignored by the Trustees and that is why we are here. Completely ignored. Now, what we are here for today is 111-20 and it sets forth where the hardship has been created by the Trustees in this case, which create a practical difficulties and unnecessary hardship, there is a relief valve here. Providing the applicant can make to you today the four, five, there is no money, public money involved so that is eliminated, the four criteria that are before you. No reasonable, prudent alternative site is available. That is specified pretty particular and I will just review it very briefly. What Mr. Meyran is saying and apparently what Mr. Stype is going to say, you have got to locate it, if you are going to have it at all, where it is and where it has been since 1975. because if you move it further to the west as the Trustees tried to intimate by adding a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood (inaudible) to the landing and if you look at the photographs, it is about 15 feet removed to the west, there is a landing going to the step which also overhangs the bluff, but if you add it over there, we will consider granting it. But putting it there gives you nothing, it even restricts your view further because when you look to the west you can't see anything because of the shrubbery and the adjacent property and the way their deck is set up. There are decks on both sides of these properties by the way. So it is the way it is set up. So that was that. So you say, okay, move it to the east so you can see further to the west. Well, the problem is when you move it to the east on that particular property, the way the topographical layout of the land is, that is where all the washouts and that is where the severe erosion occurs and has occurred over many, many years that they have owned the property. They tried to mitigate it but when the land becomes supersaturated, as it did in this last spring, forget about it. That is where it is going to go and Mr. Meyran can probably address that since he has lived on that. Mrs. Meyran is here, she will tell you all about it. Interestingly enough, when the father put this thing in 75, the bluff is still in the same place as it was. And the proof in the pudding of it is, if you look at it when you go there and you look at where the landing is fight next door to the west, the same spot. So the codes say well, you should put the observation decks backward, now, you know, landward, towards the house in this case. That would be great except on this particular piece of property, as you go south, the land goes lower. So you can go back 15 yards, stand there in the middle of the yard and see virtually nothing because you are depressed. It rises up into the bluff. So the only place to leave it as a practical matter and where it stood for the past 35 years is where it is today. That is the first thing, to move it, you are wasting your time. Now the next criteria that you have to consider is all the reasonable means and measures to mitigate adverse impacts on the natural systems and their functions and values have been incorporated into the activity design at the property owners expense. Basically we are dealing with erosion here, that is the main enemy here, erosion. There is really nothing else. The property has been bulkheaded and all of that, so you are just dealing with erosion. Alright. Those forms took place in late March and early April when 14 inches of rain, that is a historical factor. You have seen yourself in your functions as members of the Board what happened on the Sound side there, even on the property that I have, it eroded tremendously. So what happens here was, when you look at the pictures, the deck stayed. Nothing happened. Nothing happened to the top of the bluff. That was interesting. But right below where the two seaward posts were, it was just like somebody took a saw and just November 30, 2010 Page 25 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes dropped it down. It just dropped nine or ten feet. Like making a sheer cliff. So he had to, when he went in there to see what he was going to do, he got estimates and he will talk about that, all he had to do was replace the two seaward posts because they basically were just sitting right on the surface there. There wasn't much there. I mean, way up and down yeah but that was about it, okay. And he said, this can't be, just to dig a hole and bury them deeper, that isn't going to accomplish anything because it is all just going to fall away and he will talk about and I explained it to you and you see it in the pictures and he will tell you what he did, how he made this erosion situation which was very interesting. Sand bag built up to the contour, making a contour and then filling the sand bags with beach grass plugs which would then come out and then putting an overlay on the whole thing of an erosion mat. So it will just slip down gradually to the water and it will protect it from the wind and all the ravages as we lose the bluff in the wintertime. So he will talk about that. So he has done, I think, a wonderful job in doing the mitigation in preventing this thing from happening, again, because he was concerned about the future because he wants to live there permanently in the next few years and he will explain what he did on the construction and it is detailed in the application before you. And that ties into the next criteria that you have to consider, will it be reasonably safe and cause erosion damage. With the research that he did and the experience that he had, it is pretty ingenious because it was inexpensive to do sand bags, burlap bags filled with sand and then with the beach grass plugs and the way he did the erosion mats and then hydro-seeded the whole thing. It is pretty ingenious and you can see what happens since he did that in May as to what has been going on today. Because you will see, it is not almost a full course, it is a season. We are almost into winter now. Alright. So that will be interesting to see what you say because I thought it was a wonderful thing. And what the next criteria which is key, is that the variance requested is the minimum necessary to overcome the practical difficulty or hardship which is the basis to restore the pre- existing deck, the thing. And it was interesting that the Trustees weren't interested that the thing was up since 1975, they just weren't interested in the whole thing but when he did his restoration plan, which he tried but was unsuccessful in presenting it to the Board although it is in the papers if they care to read it. He reduced the size of the deck because he came to the conclusion with his experience that if I make the deck just 20 feet, reduce it from 24 to 20 feet at the top and use 20 foot length of decking if it has the floor joists and I cantilever it back and the way he did the sonartubes dug them down and put the 4 x 4 posts on, which are there today, you can see that for yourself, he said this thing won't move and yet any percolations (inaudible) that will come through the spaces of the decking, it will still be structurally sounder than it was and even though, as he said even though my old man created out of redwood, did it all by himself in 1975, guess what? It stood until 2010 and I didn't have to replace everything. I just decided that that was the best thing to do, to replace the whole nine yards there. So I don't want to go through all the detail, leave that for him to discuss with you as to why he did it and how he did it. I adopted the view that it would be facetious to say this was normal maintenance so therefore I thought a permit for the restoration would be but it is interesting when you read it because and I think that is why they didn't violate him or fine him or try to bring any criminal proceeding against him because when they really started to look at it, he had been doing that for the past 20-30 years, you know, minor repairs. Doing various things, replacing planking without a permit never thinking he needed one, you know, that type of thing. And it was only until this happened that he learned the sad lesson. So the other thing the Board has to consider other than those four criteria which you really have to dwell on, you have to dwell on the consistency issue which is November 30, 2010 Page 26 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes interesting under the waterfront consistency law. You do have to look at that because if the LWRP which was adopted by the Board of Trustees says that what is proposed here and I am saying what it proposed here, not build a new deck but to restore this one, is not consistent then this Board if they grant the permit to him to give him the variance to do it, also have to deal with the consistency issue. And that really gets a little bit grey because where do you go for standards on that and but I did search and I did take what Mr. Terry put down there and then I did find out that on the consistency issue in the policy 4 A number 2 says, it is not cited anywhere but I will point it to your attention. It said, avoid reconstruction of structures damaged by 50 % more of their value in coastal hazard areas. So there is a little bit of a standard there. Okay? And but notice it says avoid, it doesn't say prohibit. Because that was the first thing. And then when you will see here, Mr. Meyran is going to give you testimony that the actual damage what it was going to cost him if he just did a minimum job was $2,000 so, you know, forget about it because who knows what it would take to do a new deck and everything. I will let him dwell on that, I won't get involved in that because he personally did it. And that is mainly the two seaward posts because that is really what got weakened, if you would. Now policy 4 A 3 (inaudible) of the LWRP also has maintaining existing development of structures in hazard areas may be warranted, interesting language, may be warranted for structures which functionally require location on the coast, an observation deck on the coast, that's pretty clear. And sites where the relocation of the existing, relocation is not practical, so that is why I dwelled on that east-west business, it is not practical. So there is relief there but you really have to search for it to get a consistency pattern. And what befuddled me and I am going to defer to your Town Attorney when he gives you advice, when you put on the gloss of non-conforming uses, they are all non- conforming uses on top of all of this, where do we stand? You know, that type of thing. There is no standard. That is the interesting aspect of that. Except I did find those things for you to look at. Okay. So, where the strict application, alright, and practical difficulties you can get relief. Alright, to sum up then, real quick, the point of all of this is the town Trustees have created the unique hardship for Mr. Meyran in that this pre-existing observation deck built in 75, admittedly located in the coastal erosion hazard area, is allowed to be maintained, restored and modified providing its pre-existing size in use is not increased. I think that is clear under the law. And they should have allowed the maintenance and restoration and modification of this pre-existing deck because if it were smaller in size and he had done real serious mitigation erosion impacts. The other interesting thing is under 111, the issuance of a permit, the standards for issuing a permit under 111-9, [ say this fits the, the restoration fits for a permit and is consistent with 111- 9 because 111-9 says is the reasonable as the restoration of the pre-existing deck was functional when the renovation and maintenance commenced and this observation existing in this shoreline since 1975 without any problem and due to the procedures employed in the maintenance and restoration, there will be no increase in erosion at the proposed site. That is very important, there will be no increase in erosion because otherwise we would just be defeating the whole purpose of what we are doing and the erosion protection structures installed will in fact minimize any future erosion. Now, as for the general gloss of non-conforming uses which I keep bringing up, (inaudible) in several cases has said that where a non-conforming structure is no longer permitted, which is the case here before you, it can be rebuilt and restored in the existing footprint and its prior existence as non-conforming did not create an undesirable or detrimental effect upon the neighborhood. As I said to you, the neighbors on either side and down the road or down the sound also have similar type structures which overhand the bluff. And as noted that November 30, 2010 Page 27 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes this has never caused a problem with anyone before and why the Trustees did what they did has totally befuddled me. With that, I will turn it over to Andy Stype and he can talk about how, what he did on his analysis of the situation. Andrew? ANDREW STYPE: Scott, I have a copy for you. Andrew Stype from Andrew Stype Realty. Certified appraiser. I have been an appraiser on the north fork since 1971, we are licensed general in New York State. Dick had asked me to have a look at the property and he wanted to know if there was a difference in the value if he had the observation or did not have the observation deck on the subject property. From the back of the house as you are looking towards the Sound, there is an approximate 60 degree waterview and the water you see is like the upper half of Long Island Sound basically but as you go to the observation deck which is right on the cliff, it is an 180 degree view. It is absolutely panoramic. You can see well to the east, the west and the north. So what I did, the only way to really describe and to place a value on this observation deck was I went to the MLS site which our office is a member of, and we had 12 sales of waterfront properties that have 80 degree views and observation decks and we looked at sales of properties that don't have an observation deck or just a 60 degree view of the water. We went to the total of eight sales that were chosen, half those sales have the observation deck. Sale one is at Route 48 in Greenport, a two story home, one acre on the water. They have an observation right on the cliff. This house was sold for $1.5 million. All these sales happened within the last year or year and a half. Sale two with a waterfront deck was on Peconic Bay Boulevard in Laurel, a ranch home, .75 acres on the water; that sold for $t,417,000. Now the third sale was up at Camp Mineola Road in Mattituck, a two story home, .2 acre on the water, has an observation porch right on the waterfront, 180 degree view. That sold for $1,875,000. The fourth sale was up in Nassau Point in Cutchogue, two story home, .75 acre on the water, that sold for $1,685,000. The total values come to $6,447,500. The average price of the waterfront home that has a waterfront home that has a waterfront deck was $1,619,000. We also looked at four sales that are on the water but have a very limited view. You have a sale on Soundview Avenue in Southold, 1.3 acres on the water that sold for $1,470,000. Sale number two was on Lighthouse Road in Southold, two story home, .53 acres on the water that sold for $1,475,00. Sale three was on Sound Drive in Greenport, two story home of .7 acres on the water, limited view and that sold for $1,300,000. The last sale was up on Northview Drive in Orient, two story home on 1.6 acres on the water that sold for $1,350,000. Now the total value there comes to $5,595,000. And the average price comes to $1,398,000, so that made a difference of $220,000. which I rounded offto $200,000. just to make a conservative figure out of it. So we feel there is a huge loss of the value if the subject is not allowed to have an observation deck. Any questions? (No response) SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Andy, thank you very much for that. GLENN MEYRAN: Good morning. My name is Glenn Meyran, I live at 53 Morris Avenue West in Malverne. That is in Nassau County. First of all, I would like to thank this Board for hearing this appeal. I own the property located at 175 Soundview Avenue Mattituck. I will be brief. This Meyran family has owned waterfront property before we moved to Mattituck. We lived in the East Bronx on the water where the East River ends and Long Island Sound begins, in the area of Whitestone bridge. We had a 100 foot single plank dock which we built over the November 30, 2010 Page 28 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes marshland, we had a deck with stairs and benches at the end into the Sound. I started working with my father on this dock when I was approximately eight years old. Each year the dock would be damaged during the winter, we would repair it each spring and get it ready for the summer use. Each year, through trial and error we learned the repairs that worked and the repairs that did not work. We enjoyed the fishing, boating and swimming from this dock. My dad was a great fisherman and he heard about Mattituck from his father who owned a boat large enough to travel to Mattituck (inaudible), that's how we heard about Mattituck. So we drove to Horton's Point in Southold and we fished at Horton's Point, we also observed the stairs that led to the beach there. My mother and father loved the area and in 1960 they bought the property at 175 Soundview Avenue, it was a wooded acre. We cleared the land ourselves, dad was very handy, I helped him from the beginning with the work. I was the first born, I am their first bom. After the house was built, we built stairs to the beach. We used a lot of ideas from the stairs at Horton's Point. We built decks, planted on the cliff; using all types of erosion control methods. My mother contacted the extension service, we found out what plants to use, what not to use, at that time in was Japanese black pine which has been changed since. And we made our own rock jetty from the beach so we could swim and launch our small fishing boat in spite of the rocky beach. We did all this and maintained all the above without permits. We had no idea that we ever needed permits for any of this work. We never needed them for any of the other similar work that we did in the Bronx. We maintained our stairs, deck and cliff area with the same trial and error technique that we used in the Bronx. In 2009, I bought the property from my mother. Dad had died in 2002. In March and April of 2010, we had approximately five days of heavy rain and I called mom to see if the observation deck was affected. We knew from past experience that the heavy rains over a four or five day period caused erosion. Some years earlier, I had sistered new, sistered means putting two pieces of wood together, I had sistered two new 4 x 4's to the seaward post of the observation deck. This deck was made of redwood, it was built in approximately 74, 75. Mom, who is know 90 years old, told me over the phone that the deck seemed okay to her. I wanted to see for myself, after the years of working on that cliff and deck I developed a kind of a sixth sense. I sensed something was wrong. I went to Mattituck the next day and observed the deck. The deck was intact but I felt it no longer safe for my mother to use. The heavy rain had exposed more of the two seaward 4 x 4 posts and mom used the deck daily all year round, weather permitting. She would go out there with her friends, watch the sunsets or feed the seagulls. This deck is and always has been the focal point of this property. I saw the work that had to be done. I could have just replaced the two seaward posts and been done with it but I plan to retire here and that is not the way we do things. The drop in front of the deck was too steep for safety. We needed to slightly contour the top edge of the cliff so my son Michael and I, who lives in Mattituck, decided to use sand bags, beach grass; we had used sand bags earlier, before we had the bulkhead to no avail. We decided to use sand bags, beach grass, soil erosion and control mats. We felt a four foot deep new footing under the new two new seaward 4 x 4 posts. When we removed the old seaward posts, we observed the underside of the deck, we saw some rot but it was still intact. We decided to do the job right, so we removed the top portion of the deck. Now we could re-contour the top portion of the cliff and use erosion control mats under the deck. Prior to that, I had dumped a lot of soil. Before we had the bulkhead, we lost a lot of land and the DEC wouldn't give us the permit. So the cliff, it kept eroding, so we put a lot of soil down below so we could kind of control the top portion, so the angles would line up and we would have something stable. We were in the process of rebuilding November 30, 2010 Page 29 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes the deck on the same footings when a town official, the constable that Mr. Lark mentioned, came on our land. He told my mother that someone had complained. We have no idea who complained or why. People on both sides of us have the same deck and we are friendly with them. We must stop working immediately because we needed a permit. He also said we would be fined. We stopped work and returned all the building materials to the lumber yard. We had everything there for the deck to build it. Not a big deck, not a big deal. We applied for the permit, mom tried to get the permit but the application was very complicated and I decided to hire an attorney. So I hired my mother's attorney Mr. Lark, he had represented my mother when I bought the house from her. I could not do this myself because I live in Nassau county and I work in the Brooklyn Queens area. And after listening to all these things that Mr. Lark mentioned, you see why I hired an attorney. It appeared to be a very involved process and I could not get that much time off from work. We applied for the permit for both the stairs, the bulkhead area and the observation deck. The Town Trustees approved the permit for the stairs and the bulkhead area and denied the permit for the observation area. As Mr. Lark mentioned, they offered us what is the equivalent of the size of this table, a 4 x 8 sheet, 32 square feet extension to a 24 square foot top of the stairs to the beach, the little platform there. They said you could put another 32 square feet there. This 24 square foot platform is a few feet away from the, in the same location as the observation deck. The said the law was black and white. They called our lawyer. They did not want to hear family history. I tried to explain to them that we heard this type of talk earlier when the DEC would not let us get a bulkhead to stop the massive erosion to the cliff that we were experiencing. They said it was black and white. And that our land should feed the beaches, is the term that they used. The DEC reversed its position 180 degrees after we got hit with the three nor'easters in the early 1990's. we lost so much land that they actually allowed people to do it and my mother was able to get a small business loan from the government. The Trustees did not want to hear this either. They cut me short, the same way they did Mr. Lark and they repeated their offer, 32 square feet or nothing. I tried to tell them that this deck is on the survey from 1993 and it is the crown jewel of the property which was proved by what Mr. Stype here said. This deck lasted for 35 years, the replacement or refurbished deck will last longer and be slightly smaller. The reason I made it smaller was I noticed the rot, you can't get 24 foot long pieces of lumber, so you have to butt them together. That is where a lot of the rot started, I observed over the years, so if I get a continuous run of 20 feet, there will be less chance for the rot to start there. We are hopeful that this Board will give us the permit we need. That is all I have. Any questions on anything? COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: What year was your bulkhead put in? MR. MEYRAN: 1993. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: After 93, when the bulkhead was put in, did you do any plantings on the bluff?. MR. MEYRAN: Yes, right away. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Did you suffer any more, once it was stabilized, did you suffer any more erosion? November 30, 2010 Page 30 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes MR. MEYRAN: Yes. It was such a shear loss that the angle was there that was constantly eroding. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Right. MR. MEYRAN: Down below, so we had to build it up from the bottom to the top. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: No, no. I mean after, I understand that. I was on the Board of Trustees in 1993, I am sure I signed your permit. MR. MEYRAN: Right. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: So I understand that. MR. MEYRAN: Rambo did the work, yeah. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: But after it stabilized, did you ever get anymore erosion from the top? MR. MEYRAN: Some. Also, like he said, to the eastward side where there was more drainage of the water. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Yes. MR. MEYRAN: Yeah. But not, to the west it was solid. We have actually cherry trees growing there for whatever reason. Some of them are this big. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Right. MR. MEYRAN: The other side, you know, I guess it is where the wind hits it the most. It doesn't allow the heavy trees to grow there. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: I was out there in the summer. It was hard to see. Did you ever suffer erosion that badly, like you did this spring? MR. MEYRAN: Yes. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: You have? MR. MEYRAN: Yes. I had, like I said when I maintained this, I had actually built, we tried retaining walls, we tried the hay bales, we had the (inaudible) with the rain. I put 17 yards of dirt there myself with a wheelbarrow over the top and made a retaining wall but I couldn't get deep enough. The top of that cliff is, down below it is sand but at the top it is a clay and gravel mixture that I hit with a pick. You could go down so far it was actually sparking the pick. You couldn't get down any further without a machine. November 30, 2010 Page 31 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Mmmhmm. MR. MEYRAN: So yes, we have done. That is where a lot of those, so what it was that we had put top soil down, so you would have good growth coming up and now what we did when you look out here, you should have this thing, hopefully, you never know what nature has in store but we did the absolute best we could. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And the, I am sorry, the neighbors, they have bulkheads on either side. MR. MEYRAN: To the east of us, she had it before us. And her land is actually a little higher than ours because we were waiting to get it. People to the, if you go there, look at the people to the west of us. They got the bulkhead after us. They waited a lot longer and they actually put gavians (sp?) down there trying to control these. There deck is a shear, it is hanging .... COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: But they have one now? The neighbors to the west have... MR. MEYRAN: It is just hanging and the cliff is like straight down. Very dangerous. Any other questions? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No. Thank you very much. MR. LARK: I want to thank the Board for heating the complete application and when you do review it, particularly since we are here under chapter 111 and 111-9, I can't see why the issuance or granting a variance for the issuance of the permit under the ABC of that 111-9, I think what he has done here and what is presented to you, I think it does meet that criteria. I realize it is brand new, never there, couldn't do it, that is because it is a prohibition but since it has been there since 1975, I see no reason why, where the coast, I know, I know you are going to amend (inaudible) as a result of this but the way that the codes are written tight now, I see no reason why that can't be restored in that location. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay. Thank you. Would anybody else like to address the Board on this public heating? COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: I would just like to make one correction to what Mr. Lark said. He said that the Trustees adopted the LWRP, that would have been the Town Board in 2005. MR. LARK: Excuse me. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Okay, I just wanted to make that clear. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: And we will clarify that was a previous Town Board. No current member adopted the LWRP. Just for clarity. November 30, 2010 Page 32 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I just have one comment. Looking at some of the pictures in the file, there is one dated the spring of 1999 after a storm and particularly looking at the railing that is on the edge of the bluff: I was thinking that if I went there as a building official or even a Trustee, did anybody ever come near falling off of that deck? MR. MEYRAN: No. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Because the railings obviously don't meet code today's standards, so if you had wanted to repair that, you probably would have to bring that up to code to today's standards... MR. MEYRAN: I understand what you are saying. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Even this thing was built to code back then but yeah, this thing would have to be modified to today's standards. We might not allow you to do it. MR. MEYRAN: There are a lot of things....but my father just had those 4 x 4's in sand. They were only 12 inches down, I am putting sonartubes down, so we are going to do it all to code. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: He was talking about the railings. What were you going to do about the railings? MR. MEYRAN: I know what he is talking about. The railings were horizontal .... COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Yeah. MR. MEYRAN: And you have got to have them vertical and they have got to be to code, they have to be four inches on center and all of that stuff. I understand all of that. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: So my point is that I am wondering if you could have even gotten a permit to bring this thing up to today's standards code wise. MR. MEYRAN: (inaudible) He told me that the deck was there when a lot of these inspectors would go around... TOWN ATTORNEY FINNEGAN: Can you speak into the microphone? MR. MEYRAN: Can you ask that question again? COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I am just making that comment that I was wondering if you could have even gotten a permit if you wanted to install railing to code now, you may not have even been able to get a permit on it. MR. MEYRAN: That is probably correct. But it should have been permitted in the beginning but all the inspectors passed a lot of this stuff and they never put it down. We had this trouble when I bought the house. The garage was there, it was never permitted although it was, I had to November 30, 2010 Page 33 Southold Town Board Meeting .Minutes o get a permit for that. They didn't do things in those years the way they do them now, that is the problem. But yes, you are right on that issue. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Thanks. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay. Would anybody else like to comment on this particular erosion appeal? (No comment) Well, what I would like to do is get a motion from the Board to close the hearing, we are going to reserve our decision today. RESULT: WITHDRAWN PH 11/30 7:35 Pm E Sawicki Open Development Area RESULT: WITHDRAWN PH 11/30, 7:40 PM Sill Open Space Acquisition COUNCILMAN TALBOT: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that that pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 185 (Open Space Preservation) and Chapter 17 (Community Preservation Fund) of the Town Code, the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby sets Tuesda¥~ November 30~ 2010, at 7:40 p.m., Southold Town Hall, 53095 Main Road, Southold, New York as the time and place for a public hearing for the purchase of the properties, owned now or formerly by Julia Sill, identified as SCTM #1000-45-5-3 and SCTM #1000-45-5-4. The total area of the properties is 23.5± acres. The addresses of the properties are, respectively, 70282 Route 25 and 70284 Route 25 in Greenport, New York. The properties are, respectively, located within the LIO (Light Industrial Park/Planned Office) and R-80 (Low Density Residential) Zoning Districts. The proposed acquisition is for the Town to acquire fee title to both properties, totaling 23.5+ acres, for open space purposes. The exact area of the purchase is subject to a Town provided survey. The purchase will be funded by the Community Preservation Fund. The properties are listed on the Town's Community Preservation Project Plan as properties that should be preserved tbr open space, nature preserve, passive recreational purposes, fresh and saltwater marsh and wetland protection, and the preservation of undeveloped shoreline. Proposed uses of the property may include the establishment of a nature preserve, passive recreational area with trails, and limited parking for access purposes. The properties are adjacent to, and in the vicinity of, other properties within the Pipes Cove Area which have been preserved for similar purposes, and the use of the property will be in conjunction with uses that may be developed for the overall Pipes Cove Area. The Nature Conservancy will be working in partnership with the Town to prepare a Pipes Cove/Arshamomaque Park Stewardship and Management Plan for preserved properties within the Pipes Cove area. FURTHER NOTICE is hereby given that a more detailed description of the above mentioned parcel of land is on file in Land Preservation Department, Southold Town Hall Annex, 54375 Route 25, Southold, New York, and may be examined by any interested person during business hours. November 30, 2010 Page 34 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes We have a letter from the LWRP coordinator, Mark Terry, 'The proposed acquisition of fee title of the proposed property for passive open space purposes, the action has been reviewed and is consistent with the policy standards and therefore is consistent with the LWRP.' A notice that it was posted in the Suffolk Times dated November 25, 2010 and that it was on the Town Clerk's bulletin board posted on November 22, 2010. And that is it. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Would anybody like to come up and address the Town Board on this particular matter? MELISSA SPIRO, LAND PRESERVATION COORDINATOR: Hi, Melissa Spiro, Land Preservation Coordinator. The subject of tonight's hearing of the two properties located in what we have been calling the Pipes Cove area, both the properties are accessed from SR 25 in Greenport. One property is just under 15 acres and is located on the north side of the railroad tracks and the other property is just under nine acres and located on the south side of the railroad tracks and in front on Pipes Neck creek. The town and county have worked for many years on preservation of properties within the area we call the Pipes Cove area and the Sill properties are significant properties within this area and we are happy to have this opportunity to work with the landowners towards preservation of them. The total purchase for the fee acquisition of the entire area of both properties is $538,000. This is based on a purchase price of $488,000. for the north property and $50,000. for the south property. There is an existing residential dwelling on the north property and the life estate for Julia Sill has been reserved on the portion of the property that contains the house and lawn. The appraisal for the property, the value of the property with the life estate and the total purchase price is in accordance with an appraisal prepared for that property. The Nature Conservancy has facilitated and worked under a contract with the town on most of the projects within the Pipes Cove area, including this one. Due to certain circumstances of this acquisition the Nature Conservancy may help to facilitate this acquisition by actually purchasing the properties directly from the landowner with the intent then to sell the properties back to the town. The proposed resolution, the purchase of properties, as denotes the property owners as Julia Sill or the Nature Conservancy as contract vendee. The purchase of the acquisition, as noted, is for open space purposes. The Community Preservation Fund will be used to fund it. The town does not intend to continue the residential use of the property past the term of the life estate and does not intend to keep the residential structure for any sort of future purpose. The land preservation funds are proposed to be used for stewardship of both of the properties and details for that will be described at the appropriate times in the town's community preservation fund management and stewardship plan. Sanitary flow credits have been calculated and it is estimated that one sanitary flow credit may be available after the town purchases the property and the term of the life estate is completed. Transfer of the credit is not finalized until a separate meeting and authorization comes from the Town Board. The Land Preservation Committee is in favor of continuing the Pipes Cove preservation effbrts with the acquisition of these properties and recommends that Town Board proceed with the purchase. Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Melissa, just one other thing, I stopped down there the other day. Julia has her wits about her, she knew someone was down there, wanted to know who was down November 30, 2010 Page 35 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes there. I don't think she is going anywhere any time soon. Good for her. But I just wanted to confirm, the town is not responsible for any maintenance on that house, going forward after we purchase it. MS. SPIRO: No, we will be working all that out on the life estate but no, the town will not be maintaining the house. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. Would anybody else like to address the Town Board on this acquisition? COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I would .just like to make a comment. I think when this was proposed by the Community Preservation Committee and Melissa, I didn't know it was there, that farm. An old dairy farm right on the Bay and the pictures of it and I went down there as well and it is a beautiful piece of property and it will be a great addition to our open space. MS. SPIRO: A family member is here tonight if you have any questions. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Just gratitude and thanks that you were willing to work with us on the preservation of this important piece. Thank you. RESULT: CLOSED [UNANIMOUS] MOVER: Louisa P. Evans, Justice SECONDER: Albert Krupski Jr., Councilman AYES: Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell PIt 11/30 7:37 M. Demchak Open Develop Area COUNCILMAN TALBOT: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 240 (Subdivision of Land), Article VIII (Open Development Area), of the Town Code, the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby accepts the petition of Michael Demchak to establish open development area as complete~ and hereby sets Tuesday~ November 30~ 2010~ at 7:37 p.m.~ Southold Town Hall~ 53095 Main Road, Southold~ New York, as the time and place for a public hearing for the establishment of an open development area on property owned by Michael Demchak, said property is identified as part of SCTM #1000-84-1-11 and 1000-84-1-12. l, with an address at Oregon Road, Cutchogue. The property is located in the A-C Zoning District and is on the south side of Oregon Road, approximately 252 feet easterly from the intersection of Cox Lane and Oregon Road in Cutchogue, New York. The proposed open development area is located on 7.231+ acres of the 33.9890+ acre parcel. The open development area consists of 4 lots on approximately 7.23 l+acres to include 4 residential lots. The development rights of the remaining 26.67+acres are to be acquired by the Town using Community Preservation Funds and subject to a development rights easement. FURTHER NOTICE is hereby given that a more detailed description of the above-mentioned petition to establish an open development area is on file in the Town Clerk's Office, Southold Town Hall, 53095 Main Road, Southold, New York, and may be examined by any interested November 30, 2010 Page 36 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes person during business hours. This notice was published in the Suffolk Times on the 25th of November, 2010 and it was posted on the Town Clerk's bulletin board on the 22nd day of November, 2010. And that is it. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Would anybody like to come up and address the Town Board on this particular acquisition? PETE DANOWSKI: My name is Pete Danowski, I am very brief. I caused the petition to be filed for this open space, I would like to thank Melissa, other members of the Planning staff and the coordination with the various committees that have considered the layout of a future subdivision of a small number of lots here and so the open development area is part of that process and hopefully you will adopt the resolution tonight. If that happens, in fact, they will be closing next week. So thank you. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. I want to comment that this is actually, I believe, a family that sold development rights in the past, so I want to thank them again for their commitment. MR. DANOWSKI: That is correct. On the Cox Lane area, the Demchuk's have sold development rights in the past. And you tie that together with the Lieb vineyard areas and we have got a nice stretch of land there. Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. Would anybody else like to address the Town Board on this particular hearing? (No response) RESULT: CLOSED [UNANIMOUS] MOVER: Louisa P. Evans, Justice SECONDER: Christopher Talbot, Councilman AYES: Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell Closin~ Comments Supervisor Russell SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay, that concludes the public hearings. Again, Peter, thank you to your client for working so well with the town on the preservation of that parcel. MR. DANOWSKI: Thank you as well. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I will now, believe that we can go to anybody coming to the Town Board to address any concern. John, please feel free. John Cleary, Mattituck JOHN CLEARY: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That is the 102 form, I asked that and they said no, that it was done November 30, 2010 Page 37 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes at the county level. But that is right, that is a 102 form from the assessors. MR. CLEARY: I appeared a couple of weeks ago here because I was concerned about a fence across the beach in Mattituck. Then I was advised to speak to the Board of Trustees, so a couple of my neighbors and myself went to the Board of Trustees and they refused to listen to anything I had to say at all regarding the rights of people on the beach regarding the height of the tide, the water on the beach, fence blocking the beach. Subsequent to this time, I contacted the DEC and found out that the fence was in violation of their law and the DEC contacted the person in question and the fence was subsequently removed. Indicated in last weeks paper was that this fence is going to be put back again in the spring. I would ask your cooperation to make sure the DEC that we are not in favor of putting this fence back because it stopped any emergency vehicle from accessing to the beach for three miles down. If they succeed in putting up that fence again, then I would suggest you open up the other roadway and leave it open for motor vehicle traffic to get onto the beach just in case of an emergency situation. But in regarding the court case itself, I know it is decided, I know the tax map has been amended and all of that but there are a few issues that I would like to make. The Supreme Court of the United States in the case of Lew in New Jersey, the Supreme Court indicated that land that has built up because of federal projects, like this land in question here, is not built up by accretion, it is built up by avulsion. Avulsion being less than natural collection of sand. This beach would not be built up if it wasn't for the Army Corp of Engineers spending billions of dollars of the people's money to preserve this beach. Because the people along this beach want to own part of it, the Supreme Court has specifically held that they don't have a right to something that they didn't pay for, that they community paid for. So I would like to see that addressed by the town, whatever they can do to reevaluate this case and get further information to the court on appeal would be good because it is all in the same lines of what you just heard. This is the preservation of the public land for the people's use. This is public land that the town owns, that the state owns, this is part of a government project that caused it to be built up. And it was given up without the Trustees taken any interest whatsoever. And not any interest in listening to the people. The Supreme Court says the people really shouldn't have that. But now in regards to the case itself, it was really very particular in some ways. I tried to give you a sheet of what they, I am not a lawyer, I am just a, I walk the beaches, that is it. But what the Supreme Court says in the decision of what the appeal was by the plaintift; they are calling for accreted lands. Specifically the Supreme Court says it is not accreted lands. By definition, again I am not a lawyer, this is Webster's, it says the process of growth or enlargement by gradual buildup increased by external addition or accumulation and says increase of land by action of natural forces. Not natural forces that cause this land to build up, in fact, the very fence itself indicates what kind of forces are going there. The fence itself sometimes has a height of five feet and sometimes has a height of less than two feet. In other words, these are forces that are on this beach that comply with the Supreme Court that says it is avulsion. You can have avulsion for building up or avulsion for taking down, on the other side of the jetty, Bailie Beach, it is avulsion that they are losing property. So if you are going to claim that you fit the bill for a court decision, Webster's doesn't agree. I don't know about lawyers. But now, supposedly in this bill was another terminology, mean high water. The mean high water has been addressed before, it has been charted in the 1949 map that I have here if you are interested, the mean high water it says, and this is the glossary of coastal terminology, over a specific 19 year period you have to establish mean high water. Now this case was only November 30, 2010 Page 38 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes decided in 2007, I think you have a few more years before you can determine the mean high water for this particular piece of land. Again, the ownership of this property remains in question because none of these things have been addressed. The fence itself, we have provided a picture of the fence and the topography of the land itself, one of the things that we mentioned, George is one of our neighbors, he happens to be a college professor who has spoken around the world regarding a lot of matters that are very common to this and he can add something about the erosion process or the avulsion process. Further, the New York State Coastal Resources, this is chartered wetlands, it is a very unique thing. These am wetlands that are owned by New York State, it is not, and it is outside the original property and this is the original deed that when I read it, for these people who own the beach and me too, it provides that it has to be in accordance with New York State law or other laws. So this is New York State law and other laws that it is federal land. Doesn't have anything to do with accretion. In fact, I have a letter here that in my file, I have a letter from the leading party of this group to the Board of Trustees that they should take an interest in what the Army Corps of Engineers is doing. Well, certainly you will have an interest in what the Army Corps of Engineers is doing because they are going to change something that is not natural and the whole case goes out the window if the Army Corps of Engineers takes 25 feet off the jetty like they are saying, that beach will erode. Further in regards to this, the town was provided with Mattituck Park district, they quoted the very same law that I was going to read but the Trustees of the Mattituck Park district have indicated and this is what is in the state law, this is also national law and these laws go back to Justinian law, which is eastern Roman empire in the 6th century, it says here in the letter: the fence may be negatively affecting the public's right to use the beaches below the high tide mark. The New York State public trust waters are the waters of the State of New York and the public trust lands that are land now and formerly beneath those waters to the high tide mark. Again, the court decision conflicts with this law, predating the decision. The public trust doctrine is important in establishing the right to use and pass over foreshore and tidal waters. Quoting the case involving the use of land in Hempstead harbor, (inaudible) 336 New York State second division, 721, the courts define the public's right to the foreshore. I think the foreshore is below the mean high water mark, it takes 19 years to establish that mark. It was interesting to me, when I questioned where the survey came and the boundaries for the survey came, so I called up the surveyor and I said how did you establish the high tide mark. And then they said, well, Christine Rivera established the high tide mark and 1 put the land where she wanted to put it. And I agreed that this is somewhere along the high tide mark, no qualified individual, no geologist, no surveyor, no credentials at all; some individual was allowed to make the high tide mark and shift the mean high water line? And then this map was presented to the town and the town okayed it and sent it on to the county. Further on this map as indicated, it is nice that all the block, I think I gave you a copy of it, that all the lots go out nicely into the Sound but Christine Rivera's lot goes into town parkland because she is continuing an angle of a fence into town parkland. Therefore, since it is not a proper map, wasn't drawn properly in the first place, I think the proper authorities ought to be notified and reject it because it is improper to take town parkland. Now, I think that is just about it. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Thank you for your work on that and your continued effort. Many of us feel that the State really didn't do a good job of defending what was state property, public property there and just because someone in the state made that decision, we don't think that that November 30, 2010 Page 39 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes has got to be the final decision. MR. CLEARY: Well, I heard that when I tried to contact the attorney from the Trustees, Lori Hulse I think, called five times and never got an answer. So you have to do all this work yourself, you know. It is interesting. I gave you a copy of this (inaudible). COUNCILMAN TALBOT: What was the property that you were talking about that the owner is grabbing town parkland? JUSTICE EVANS: Inaudible. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I know but I was down there, Mr. Lomaga was down there as well when the owner had it surveyed again and the fence is on their property, inside the property line. Oh, you mean, depth into the water? MR. CLEARY: Inaudible. The unique thing was that it appears to be a survey of the map that was .... COUNCILMAN TALBOT: 1949, yes. MR. CLEARY: Now they are claiming, does this have a high water mark in here? COUNCILMAN TALBOT: No, I don't think that they do. MR. CLEARY: Right here. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: The dotted line. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Yes. MR. CLEARY: The high water mark (inaudible) COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Correct. MR. CLEARY: Now this is a really strange high water mark. It makes a right turn. So the map (inaudible) COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Nobody challenged it 61 years ago. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: 1949 technology, I guess, John. MR. CLEARY: Well, this is all .... COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: All updated in 2007? November 30, 2010 Page 40 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Yes, yes. MR. CLEARY: Inaudible. You can see where the original fence line goes over, these three lots right next to it are what the Captain Kidd estates gave to the park (inaudible) COUNCILMAN TALBOT: You are a recipient of that as well, as a Mattituck resident. MR. CLEARY: Inaudible. But this area over here is what goes into the town park, so this is no (inaudible) COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: I would like to ask the Town Attorney to look into this again, please. MR. CLEARY: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: What I would recommend to the Board is that we have an ownership interest, a 50 foot width of road that extends out into a mean high water mark and I think the best benchmark is for us to actually survey what we own. All other ownerships can be taken from those lines. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Sure. And see how they match up with the survey that they have. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I think that would be .... UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I would, to be perfectly candid, I don't know that we have the resources. I will certainly go out and get some pricing or fees but until we have new money available, you know, the tax bills go out the first of the year, we might not have it until then but I will certainly keep you informed. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Unless John wants to donate some funds. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I have got to find out what my costs are for surveying a road end and then I will have a better idea as to what (inaudible resources after the first of the year. MR. CLEARY: Well, I have got a GPS. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: We don't want you going by the poison ivy, John. Relax. MR. CLEARY: What I think regarding this road end area, it has been filled in by the property owner. It is trust, it is wetland, you are not allowed to do that. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I think we saw the other day that they had cleared that section (inaudible). November 30, 2010 Page 41 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes MR. CLEARY: They haven't brought it back to its natural state and really from what my neighbors tell me, they used to have a walkway by the left side of that rail. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Yes, we had that discussion the other day. MR. CLEARY: A good friend told me they didn't like people walking past their property. This is a question of moving next to the airport and then complaining about the airplanes, you know? COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Yes, I think that if we get that thing surveyed, we will be able to tell where our property is and obviously theirs is adjacent to it. MR. CLEARY: Now one of the things when you have documented wetlands like this and again, that map indicates it a little bit... COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Yes. MR. CLEARY: If you document a wetland, there are a few prohibitions on that. No motor vehicle. If you went by there Sunday, it looked like a dirt track out there, the whole beach were covered by motor vehicle tracks that went up into the people's houses. JUSTICE EVANS: Inaudible. MR. CLEARY: It is DEC. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: A call to the police on that. MR. CLEARY: Yes, it is DEC. But you can't get the fences down so the police can get in there though. But the other thing that is prohibited that they like to do is beach fires. Strictly prohibited on wetlands. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Any open fire is prohibited in Southold. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: And in Suffolk and in New York State. Environmental law. MR. CLEARY: Now coming out of that street itself, since I have been down there taking pictures because I am told that I can't see straight by some people, so pictures will verify what i am talking about, when I was coming out of the inlet by the beach, there is so much overgrowth on that property on the comer and because of the speed of the cars coming down Sound Beach Drive and to make that turn, they have to swing wide on the far side of the road to go up Inlet. I think to control the traffic itself and for the safety of the people that are coming out from the bushes that the cars are fight in front of you might evaluate it and put a stop sign in there. Because it is a hazard. Now, George, he told me something about the train of currents on how they work, if you are interested he can testify to this. You don't want to listen to him? How the currents go across Long Island down to Florida? November 30, 2010 Page 42 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I would suspect that is going to be a finding of fact by a judge. That is really ultimately what is in fact a little drift and what is avulsion. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Typically any waterfront property owner, they typically, you know, their properties will come and go in given weeks sometimes. And when do they grab land... JUSTICE EVANS: No, but how does (inaudible) .... UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And if it is state land, it doesn't matter if it is a foot under water or foot above water, it is still state land. Regardless of elevation. Please do. George Lamoga, Mattituck GEORGE LOMAGA: George Lomaga. This is one more point. Something came up today, I am George Lomaga. I am his driver. I commend you for getting the land but you know what strikes me now, I have seen by Laurel Lake we have got land that we are preserving and I see land being preserved and I know the economy's situation. But you know what would be a golden opportunity, you have Stony Brook and you have Suffolk County Community college and if you are going to have this land and we can't put trails on it and depending upon what you can use it for, I hate to see the land just sit there if you know what I mean. We should take a survey, a census, using our ecological students and biological department to take a (inaudible) to start to build it over history. We should have an idea what animals are there, we should have an animal, an insect, a plant census of what is there and when somebody comes back here 10 years from now and you guys are gone, a record could now be shown what was gained by you know, holding this land. If we don't put trails in it, is it better not to put trails because then all species come back in here. We don't have those records. I don't know of any that have been a long term kind of thing. I remember in the 60's when I first moved into my house, (inaudible) from Stony Brook university down by Cooper's rock that was there, had stakes and I went down there and I was just starting my career and I said, what are you doing here? They actually had Stony Brook students coming down everyday measuring the high water mark. I don't know what has happened to those records. (inaudible) has now passed away but that seems like something, if we (inaudible) how high is the tide, how iow is the tide, what is the mean; we don't keep records of this. Somebody should be doing it. We should be using our college students or high school students to be able to do that. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: We do have some of those inventories on some of the town land. Melissa Spiro, right behind you from Land Preservation, can give you a much better answer than I can. UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: What we have is we have an inventory, the problem, to be candid, is November 30, 2010 Page 43 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes that we have been or that Melissa has been so good at her job that we acquire faster than we can inventory but we are refocusing on the stewardship component of owning that land with the flora and fauna studies and the critical habitat studies. We are in the process of doing that now. We are developing management plans for each of these parcels. And Melissa, we have in the budget for the coming year, an assistant, part-time assistant that will help her get a lot of the stewardship done. We have been so focused on acquisition in the past that and it is a one, literally a two woman office, that we now are bringing help in so that she can refocus some of that effort on stewardship. MR. LOMAGA: Well, that is good. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: But we hear what you are saying, we certainly agree with that. MR. LOMAGA: Okay, good. Thank you. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: George, on occasion when the state has money, they will go around New York State and they identify endangered species in certain areas. I believe it is called the Heritage Program. If you contact New York State, they will have a good idea in what areas around here where there are endangered species in that area. MR. LOMAGA: Yeah, I am not (inaudible) I am looking to start an inventory that we can keep a record, a perpetual record, into history. It would seem reasonable as part of our town history. Also, the thing that Mr. Talbot mentioned, I was down there with the (inaudible) when we saw the angle and he said this line was straight, the dilemma we are having, as my association I am the president of the association down there, that is town property and what is happening, you know, how the angle is going more .... COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Yeah, to the east. MR. LOMAGA: We also, the residents that go down there to use that beach are also impinged upon from the town property because of piping plover. So as I said, what has happened to those poor residents and it is mostly elderly people there, this is what has happened, like that. If that is going to be 15 feet under water, they are going to lose that and if that fence gets put back up again in the springtime, they are going to have less beach and less beach and less beach, that is all. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: That conversation that you and I and then the owner was there as well, I asked them if and, the best thing you could do down there is you guys could work it out in the neighborhood. The thing that they said they wanted, you know, I said do you really need a fence up there? Nah, we just don't want people sitting in front of the house. You know, one of the other neighbors across the street said that you used to sit there and that they don't anymore but they said if there was nobody sitting in front of their house that they wouldn't even have a fence up. You know, the best thing that you guys could do (inaudible) is if you could work it out with your neighbors. November 30, 2010 Page 44 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes MR. LOMAGA: Inaudible. I don't know very many people that do sit, there used to be, when 1 first moved there, we used to fish there. Now people don't even fish in front anymore. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Yes, it is a shame, it is a shame that it has come to this. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Getting back to the fauna study, it is actually getting a lot easier with the flora studies because the deer are eating everything in site, there is very little left to inventory. We just want to be able to hear you and channel 22 can only hear you if you speak into the microphone. UNIDENTIFIED: It was interesting that there was a fence down there for the piping plovers. Now the piping plovers have wonderful sense. They didn't stay their either because they got flooded out all the time. There was no piping plovers in that nest, there was water there frequently. Now taking this again a step, you rekindled a thought in my mind. The judges decision says that if it changes and it is eroded, the property line goes back. Now Christine Rivera said in the, according to the Suffolk Times, the water was frequently up to her grass. I think she said herself that the tide shifted, the beach sank and now it is underwater land again. And the piping plovers are a witness to it. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Sure. UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: At this point, I would assume that the discussion is had on this, so would anybody like to address the Town Board on any issue? LeRoy }tiliger, Factory Ave Mattituck LEROY HEYLIGER: Good evening, my name is Leroy Heyliger, I live in Mattituck. I am a deacon at the Unity Baptist church on Factory Avenue in Mattituck and I am here to represent our community, African American community, members of our church that was built in 1931. I have been here since 1955 and as a member of that church. Reverend Marvin Dozier is our pastor. I have some pictures here of the damage that Waldbaum's trucks have been, of the havoc that they have been creating on Factory Avenue with their 52 foot trailers that they bring in there between the hours of 9 in the morning and 11:30 and then again in the afternoon at 2:00 or 2:30. And if any of you have ever traveled down Factory Avenue during those hours, you know the chaos that goes on. I was here before the Town Board several months ago and I heard the people on Sigsbee complain about CVS and 1 believe they got their problem situated with their trucks and we are on the other side and no one is paying any attention to us. If I can approach the Board I would like to show you these pictures. Inaudible. The trucks are parking on the left hand side of the street, blocking the gates, blocking the walkway... COUNCILMAN TALBOT: They don't see your sign there? I see they are right up on the lawn there. MR. HEYLIGER: Inaudible. They have also pulled in our driveway and busted up our cesspool cover twice. I had to put up a chain across our driveway so that they wouldn't come in our November 30, 2010 Page 45 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes driveway and we had the cesspool cover there, they broke that twice. Waldbaum's doesn't care. The truck drivers, we had a funeral at the church, a 52 footer came in, it was a Saturday and he told us to move the hearse. Move that hearse. If I hadn't called a policeman to come, there would have been a riot on Factory Avenue. I am telling you. It is getting serious. This past winter, this past winter when the snow was piled up on both sides of the street, no one could get through Factory Avenue. The traffic was backed up all the way to ice cream, to Route 25 and all the way to Old Sound Avenue. If a fire had broken out in one ofhtose homes on Factory Avenue or someone needed emergency, a disaster would have happened and it is going to happen again this winter. Another thing I appreciate is they did pave Factory Avenue, I think it was this month. However, they have pictures there of the cottages, the cottages, when those trucks park on that side, the left hand side, that is supposed to be a sidewalk. People that live in the cottages come out with baby carriages and they have to walk in the road, cross the railroad tracks. I have pictures there of that area. Well, when they finished the road, that section there, the section there that they can't go down because they go out in the road, they almost get hit. One lady had to pull her child over, I was out in the parking area and I watched her come out of the cottages and there are more children being born in those cottages and they use that access to get to the mall, that is why the cottages were built there. So that they would have easy access to the malt. The road, at the end of the road there, the pathway, is not completed and so they have to go around the railroad track or go out in the street and the cars come flying over. Something has to be done with Waldbaum's. There is a picture there also of the Dempsey dumpster that is supposed to be maintained. Sunday mornings when you come to church and you park your car in our parking lot, seagulls are all over the place, picking up trash, taking them all over the place and dumping them. I mean, if this was your church, wouldn't you be concerned? I have been before the Board several times about this and nobody seems to pay attention. If they can do it for the people on Sigsbee Road, if they can do it for CVS, they can do it for us. We are not chopped liver, we vote. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: No, the thing with the CVS, ! think it was more that there was a grate that was coming out and making a lot of noise on the Sigsbee Road side and when they did the site plan approval on that, they had regulations on the trucks and stuff: MR. HEYLIGER: When we pull out of our driveway, the trucks are on the left hand side, parking, they are unloading, blocking our gate so we have to come out on the south side and you can't see around the truck. Someone is going to have an accident there. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Mr. Heyliger, let me just correct one thing. To say that we haven't listened is not true. We just undertook a very expensive corridor study, we identified Factory Avenue as a critical area that needs review and suggestions on traffic calming. The parking, whether we need to create no loading zone, we have that, the consultant has just delivered a rough copy to us and that is going to be the blueprint on how we are going to try to fix some of these issues. But we agree with you, we listened to you and that is why we did the corridor study. Because Factory Avenue, these areas that, these heavily used commercial areas that are bumping up into the residential sections, whether it is Sigsbee Road or Factory Avenue or Bray Avenue or Marlene Lane, it is creating a huge problem. We know that, that is why we asked a consultant to help us identify those solutions. He just got a rough copy to us. We are actually November 30, 2010 Page 46 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes meeting next week to discuss the informal proposal that he is coming out with and trying to hone that to make it a public document in the very near future. But we agree, without a doubt. We applied for money for sidewalks, through hamlet revitalization grants. We didn't get the money. They put sidewalks in Jamesport. But we applied for the sidewalks so we can get that pedestrian friendly motif in that area and of course, throughout that commercial corridor. We are trying as best we can. MR. HEYLIGER: Well, what about that wooded area where they have got that dumpster there? Can't they pull those trucks in there, can't, if they won't sell it, the town can take eminent domain like they do in other places. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: What we found out with that piece, they only own a few feet behind their wall and it is owned by the cemetery there. All the way over on Pacific Street or East Legion. The cemetery wraps around behind the shopping center. MR. HEYLIGER: Something has got to be done with Waldbaum's. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We have a rough draft, we are going to try to perfect it, he made recommendations with us in terms of trying to negotiate some solutions with the owner of the shopping center. We are working on that as we speak, literally. Okay? UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. MR. HEYLIGER: Every day, every single day. i talked to the police, I asked for them to patrol the area, they still park on that side. And they are up on the, as close to the fence as they can. If someone comes down from the cottages with a baby carriage or a stroller, they have to go over on the other side and dodge traffic. It is ridiculous. UNIDENTIFIED: You can't get out of Waldbaum's sometimes. Inaudible. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Nobody is more eager than this Board to get that study completed and hopefully start to alleviate some of these problems. UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: There are a lot of obvious problems there that we need to address. Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: No, you know, this was a 90 day study, it took a little bit longer but we have it in. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No, trust me, I hear you, I know. The consultant, the report took longer than we wanted but we have it now, we have the rough draft. He not only identified some November 30, 2010 Page 47 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes partial possible solutions, he also identified funding sources which as you know is a very critical thing with the town, government in our current fiscal shape. He identified those funding sources. As we have been applying for these grants, trying to get some of that, those funds to help offset some of these costs. But we literally, again, just go that report back and we hope to have a public meeting and we are going to schedule a Town Board meeting in Mattituck and make that the focus on the agenda. Because those are the issues that are important to the people in Mattituck. MR. HEYLIGER: Is there any way of getting that section paved for the cottages? You know, the walkway there? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That would be through the MTA. We have been trying to reach out, they improved some intersections throughout the town, we have asked them about a timetable for Mattituck. Unfortunately, we don't have a lot of influence with the MTA but we would like thmn to bring some of the intersection solutions there that they have brought to the other intersections in town. MR HEYLIGER: Okay. Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. Would anybody else like to address the Town Board? Benja Schwartz, Cutchogue BENJA SCHWARTZ: Benja Schwartz from Cutchogue. So the MTA, the hamlet study or the corridor study, how is that going to affect the way Waldbaum's is operating illegally every single day? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That is a factually incorrect statement. Actually what that study will do, it will propose recommendations for areas to create no loading, unloading zones, all of those things that simply don't exist now. MR. SCHWARTZ: Right now there are signs that say no standing and that is where the trucks are parking. At least they were last time I was down there. [ don't know if that has changed. But the trucks every day, park in the no standing zone on the side of that street. So we have the laws, all we need is enforcement. Are you aware that the website for Southold Town has an advertisement for Verizon right at the top of it? COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: I did not know that. MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, it has got a little favorite icon thing that says Verizon. I was kind of curious since I believe we have changed over to Cablevision as our provider. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That is correct. MR. SCHWARTZ: Sort of strange. Anyway, there are also a couple of dead links in the notices column, the first two links are broken. They just lead to a page that can't be found but we don't really have to worry about that because the hearings are over, that was the Demchuk and the November 30, 2010 Page 48 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes other hearing we had tonight. I am glad to be here tonight. I am very thankful for what I call the fifth season. It is my personal favorite time of the year. Also known as Indian summer and this time of year there is no where I would rather be than here in Southold Town. I was in my garden today and I found a chip, I don't go to the casino, so I don't know how it got there but it is a blue chip you know and I thought this is pretty, I love blue and it reminded me just, you know, blue chip companies well, I think you are all running a blue chip company and I think Southold Town is a very special place and I am here because I would like to try to help you keep it that way. I am also thankful tonight for the right to petition our government for the redress ofghevances and I want to thank Supervisor Russell from stopping me from speaking at the Town Board work session this afternoon. Because I left Town Hall and I had a beautiful day, I hope you all had a good day, too. Unfortunately, I did miss a couple of things that happened and I wonder if anybody could tell us anything about the discussions that were held on the farm stand code revisions? COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Just going to code committee. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: That was the extent of the conversation. Just put it back to the code committee to discuss it. MR. SCHWARTZ: No substance as to what needed to be revised? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: 1 think the Board was already given draft, it is the issue of farmstands as they pertain to Christmas tree farm operations and we need to perfect some language in the farmstand code that addresses that. MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. And that case has already been submitted to the appellate division, so we are waiting to hear from the court on that also. But you are going to be taking action in the code committee, see that surprises me because with the Heritage at Cutchogue who is also suing us, it seems like you are kind of taking a back seat on the code for that including the, when that law was, when the laws were passed, there was a proposal that that would apply not just to hamlet density residential districts but also hamlet business districts but the hamlet business district law was put on the back burner and... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: It wasn't put on the back burner, it was removed and not considered any further. That is not back burner .... MR. SCHWARTZ: It was removed at the time with the promise to bring it up again... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: By who? MR. SCHWARTZ: To act on it. By you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Hamlet business? MR. SCHWARTZ: The hamlet business rezoning. Changing the zoning regulations for hamlet November 30, 2010 Page 49 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes business. It was originally... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No. With regard to residential site plans? Absolutely not. I have no interest in creating design standards... MR. SCHWARTZ: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: It is not a disagreement, you are incorrect. I have no interest in developing design standards for residential site plans in the hamlet business zone because why would we develop design standards for just one of many uses allowed under the hamlet business zone. It made no sense to me. So the law that we passed was focused on hamlet density zones which is residential use only. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: One of the memo's that came out, if you remember Scott, accidentally had that put on it and we reminded the Planning Board... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We reminded the Planning Board that that was not part of the discussion. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: That was not part of it, so it was an accidental typo when they were doing it... MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay, so that was an accident. Item number 9 this morning, donation from Raynor Morrelly fund? What was that about? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Offer of money from the, Mrs. Morrelly had raised a great deal of money with her husband Ken when he was still alive and she would like to find good uses that would benefit the animals of Southold Town. We are developing a list of potential projects that she would fund with that money. MR. SCHWARTZ: Was that the same money that was the subject of a memorandum of understanding with the town? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No, that was a different fund that was, that money was held in trust by the town and that was used for the construction of the facility that sits there now. This is a separate fund that is, she is sole... MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, how can we find out more about this, seeing as how that was during the work session, there are no minutes kept, there is no video of it. If we wanted to find out more about that, I don't want to take up your time tonight but is there a way to... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I would like to find out more, the idea is to put a list of potential projects together and sit down with Mrs. Morrelly and discuss them. MR. SCHWARTZ: How much money are we talking about? November 30, 2010 Page 50 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: She believes it is $179,000. MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Moving on, I was there for the discussion on the Fishers Island sewer district and I thought that was fascinating, is there anything that you want to say or it seemed to me that the operations there are a little less than organized, I think I heard the term loosey goosey and it sounded like you were getting ready to appoint a committee to do a study or something of the way that the Fishers Island sewer district is operating. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I think the majority of it was we were reviewing the operations of it, reviewing the operations of how building permits are issued over on Fishers Island, if people are in that or if the properties are in the Fishers Island sewer district and we are just going to come up with an application for the applicant as well. Make it easier for the building department to review that process and so we are in line with what is going on over there on the island. MR. SCHWARTZ: So how are you going to proceed? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We are going to reach out to community members from Fishers Island who are part of that sewer district. Reach out to the engineer over there. First thing we are going do is sit down and have a meeting and try to get some fact finding and some answers on the table and then determine from there what we need to do. The current code might very well be satisfactory, there might not need to be a change in code, merely a change in procedure. MR. SCHWARTZ: That sounds very good. The first item for discussion .... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Just for the record, I don't remember the word loosey goosey being uttered in any work session I have been a part of since I have been Supervisor. MR. SCHWARTZ: You didn't hear it, I did. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: But we will start off with the going over to the island to review the facility. MR. SCHWARTZ: Sounds good. The first item for discussion this morning, the Meyer coastal erosion appeal, I was a bit concerned when Supervisor Russell corrected the applicants attorney who stated that the Southold Town Trnstee's adopted the local waterfront revitalization program. Not because I don't agree that the, it was the current, it was the Town Board that adopted the local waterfront revitalization program not the Trustee's. However, Supervisor Russell went on to say that it was not the current Town Board, that the current Town Board had nothing to do with it. Now I know Louisa Evan's was there .... JUSTICE EVANS: Inaudible. MR. SCHWARTZ: So you were the only one that was on the Board at the time? Well... November 30, 2010 Page 51 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me just correct you, it was actually Councilman Krupski who was the one who mentioned that it wasn't the Trustee's that adopted the LWRP it was the Town Board and then I clarified that by saying, yes a previous Town Board, no members of which are currently here. I am sorry, Louisa .... JUSTICE EVANS: Inaudible. MR. SCHWARTZ: Alright, well, sir, you stopped me. You allowed me to speak this morning and then you stopped me because you didn't like my tone... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No .... MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I don't like, I didn't like... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Again, you have trouble sticking to facts. I am not going to let you play a Johnny Cash song at a work session. On top of that .... MR. SCHWARTZ: Whatever. It wasn't a Johnny Cash song. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes, you had the recording. I have been more than generous, I have been more than kind in letting you participate in the work session... MR. SCHWARTZ: I wish I had the recording. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: And what happens is that you start off in a confrontational, combative mode that is not productive to the discussion at the table. No, I don't have the obligation to listen to that. Sorry. MR. SCHWARTZ: Alright, well, we will get to that section in a little bit. But now we are talking about the first item which I agree with you, it was Albert Krupski who pointed out that the Town Board had adopted it. Your comment that it was not the current Town Board at least implied and the way that you said it made it very clear to me that there were people, members of this Town Board that do not support our local waterfront revitalization program. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: We have not ever had any discussion on it. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I have serious reservations about the administration of the chapter 260 A. I have had them from the beginning. I have had meeting after meeting as Supervisor trying to get our arms around it but I have to tell you I am not one of its biggest fans, I wouldn't propose eliminating it but certainly it is a work in progress. I don't think the previous Board when they adopted it put any effort into the implementation components. And that is the problem, it creates delays for all Boards, it creates lack of coordinated review, there are several issues there that need to be addressed. And I have reservations. MR. SCHWARTZ: And are they being addressed? November 30, 2010 Page 52 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes, they are. One at a time. JUSTICE EVANS: I would also add that the give backs in the LWRP is not the expectations of prior Boards. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I will certainly use these gentlemen as an example. The State of New York, Department of State, promised this as local control. When we looked to the state to resolve the issue of land that had been avulsed by a jetty, the attorney general's position was to take a hands-off approach. That is not the type of cooperative understanding that we had or that the previous Board had thought when they entered into the LWRP which is a state program. MR. SCHWARTZ: As long as you have an intention to support the LWRP, you are entitled to have reservations about it, of course. But I just didn't like the implication that came across. That you had a different program that you were supporting. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: As a Town Trustee at the time when it was adopted, the Town Trustee's were not in favor of it at all because of the way it gave authority to the state and took local authority away. MR. SCHWARTZ: Alright, I have, before we continue with that meeting, I would like to just take a quick moment to ask about your last meeting. There is no video, there were no minutes kept. I see on the agenda and when I called the Town Board, they said it was to hire the three police officers. But why was it necessary to have a separate Town Board meeting that was unscheduled .... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We were against a deadline. The academy starts November 30, I am sorry, the 29th and we had to hire three officers because two of them would need to go to the academy in order to serve as police officers. MR. SCHWARTZ: So it couldn't have been done tonight and it couldn't have been done at the meeting before? COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: They had to start yesterday. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: The three applicants weren't chosen until Monday of last week. They called an immediate meeting to approve the three appointments and as the Supervisor said, they had to start yesterday. MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I am very glad that you got that done. I greatly appreciate the Southold Town police. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And we were fortunate to have three very good candidates. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I think we had nine or ten real good candidates and luckily, three guys were lucky to be chosen. Out of real good candidates. November 30, 2010 Page 53 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, I had an opportunity today, well, I had a need today to call the police when I found something was stolen from my property and the police responded and acted very professionally and did a great job. But that doesn't mean they always do a great job and we need to think about what, you know, for example today, I also observed one of the traffic control officers sitting in his police car, TC 1, running the engine. It wasn't that cold today. A police car has a huge engine with dual exhausts. And it as pumping, I mean, they idle, I think they set the idle higher than normal on those cars. Anyway, it was, the engine was running, it was getting zero miles a gallon, it was polluting our town and draining our budget and I don't understand why you know, if it is a really cold day and they can't dress warm enough, you know I could understand they maybe mm on the heat for a few minutes but to sit there all day long, especially on a day like today, running that engine. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Were you sitting there watching him all day? MR. SCHWARTZ: No, I didn't watch all day. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Well, how did you know he was there all day? MR. SCHWARTZ: I don't. Okay, but you know, is that the policy? Is that the way that they are supposed to operate? To sit in their car running their engines? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No, we have a no idling policy in Southold Town. MR. SCHWARTZ: You do have a no idling policy? Then maybe you will look into that. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I will get right on it. MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. Well, I know you are waiting for Johnny Cash but I have one other thing first, in Fleets Neck, the sewer system in Fleets Neck. Would you like an update on the sewer system in Fleets Neck? Your new sewer system. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Are you talking about sewer? MR. SCHWARTZ: Yes, I am talking about sewer. Well, it is a, you know, municipal...no, no, there is one. It is a separate storm sewer system. SSSS, MS4 municipal separate storm sewer system. Well, we will see how it works today because last week, the property owner paved his driveway. I don't know, first he put cobblestones in and then he paved it over with blacktop. It is on a hill. So that the driveway goes woops, right down 'into the garage. And it doesn't look like there is anything to stop the water from going woops, right into the garage. So you know, 1 feel really bad for him. And I am sorry that the drain the town put in at three to, I don't know how much it cost. I got an estimate that it was at least $3,000 but I don't believe that for a minute. Even in the estimate there were costs that were not added into the, alright, well, now you have been waiting for Johnny Cash so you know, one thing more about this storm sewer system. Problem wasn't just that the town put in a storm sewer for one or possibly two November 30, 2010 Page 54 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes properties, spending public money on a private need but the trend is, around the country, I have like four different, I just took a quick look on google and I came up with four municipalities. One says city to tax rainwater. They are not taxing rainwater, what they are doing is taking the tax that we are paying for the storm sewer systems programs and apparently Southold Town is lucky enough to have two such programs. One operated by the highway superintendent and the highway department and one under the auspices of the town engineer, I think, department. I am not real clear on this so help me out if I am going astray but the storm sewer systems are required by a federally mandated law that does not provide funding but requires us to protect our bays and keep our bays clean, so those are the two different forms but what a lot of cities are doing is they are taking the amount that they are already taxing for the storm sewers and they are putting it in a separate tax bracket where people who have properties that have more runoff have to pay more money and people who have properties which are not causing problems save money on taxes, they pay less taxes. So I just thought I would let you kno~v that is happening and it might be something you could implement here. You know, you seem to have no problem that the highway superintendent makes decisions to put drains in the roads without anybody's consultation. Without talking to any neighbors or no public hearings or not discussing it with any committee, well, the superintendent also was asked when he was in my neighborhood, I overhead he was asked to take a tree down, I think it was a mulberry tree, I am not sure. But there is nothing wrong with this tree except I think the neighbor wants to park there so he doesn't want the tree there. Well, last week I noticed that the next tree down the road, I think it is an oak, it is all rotted out. The whole base of the tree is like silly putty and it is immediately over a transformer. So maybe we could get LIPA to come or LILCO or whoever they are to come and take it down, I don't know. But that tree should come down but the other tree, the highway superintendent said he would have to ask the Tree Committee. So I hope they will do the right thing. Then my neighbor asked the superintendent if he could widen the road and the superintendent said yes, I can do it. But it will have to wait until the spring. But I don't have to ask anyone to do that. Well, you know, some people were visiting over the holiday weekend and one of my neighbors came by with somebody from Texas and they looked at the road and they said, well, they were from Texas but they have been coming to Southold Town and visiting Southold Town for 50 years plus but they looked at the road and they said this road doesn't need to be widened, it needs to be narrowed. Indeed, it is a dead end and there is no reason to widen the road. People can find other places to park, even if you do widen in the road, there is not enough room for parking on both sides of that road. You might have to do is, all we have to do is put in parking on one side of that road. Anyway, my point is that the highway superintendent should not be making decisions to widen roads without any planning. Johnny Cash, the reason I wanted to talk about Johnny Cash song this morning is because Johnny Cash songs, he, you know, he expresses a lot of common sense. And also, legal authority. The song happens to be about what may be the leading case on the issue that you raised and so kindly provided an agenda two weeks in advance for this morning's meeting so that you know, I was all, on Thanksgiving, I was frustrated not to know what you were talking about. Why you would put on the agenda, animals in residential districts. I mean, three years and one month ago, there was a similar item on the agenda but Supervisor Russell declared it a dead issue. Now why is it being revisited now.'? If there is a reason, something different, something that has changed over the last three years, good but with all due respect, the only thing that has changed is nothing has changed and you never addressed it properly the first time so I hope that you will address it properly this November 30, 2010 Page 55 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes time. But when you put an item on the agenda and all it says is animals in residential districts, could be wild animals, could be farm, what are you talking about? And then when I sat there listening to you for 20 minutes this morning discussing dogs and chickens and nobody mentioned goats but you know, there is a difference between a dog and a chicken. Well, I didn't hear you saying that. Your discussion to me, the only things that I heard that made any sense were Councilman Orlando and Councilman Ruland, Councilman Orlando suggesting that guinea hens were a different type of animal and should be addressed differently, I believe that was kind of the gist of what you were saying Councilman Orlando. is that right? COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: I believe that is when they were talking about putting them in pens where, where chickens are sometimes put in pens because they are producing eggs but guinea hens, their objective in life is to wander around the yard and eat ticks and bugs. MR. SCHWARTZ: And Councilman Ruland spoke about maybe looking at the laws in other jurisdictions. So I was going to .... JUSTICE EVANS: Inaudible. Because they pointed out that there was a law that applies to dogs but there were no laws at this point (inaudible) MR. SCHWARTZ: And I didn't hear you mention cats. Usually when you talk about dogs, you discuss cats. You know, I didn't hear anything about cats. But that is why l offered to tell you about this Johnny Cash song. I mean, when I started talking about it, you said come back tonight, so here I am. Johnny Cash song Dirty Old Egg Sucking dog. It's about a real mongrel. But there was a legal case involving a dog who was "trespassing" it is not the same as a person trespassing when an animal goes on private property. And the judge in that case enumerated four standards for dealing with trespassing animals. I believe these could be implemented into a law for Southold Town. I didn't hear any suggestions this morning. Of course, three years ago we had a whole long law that we considered. But that was called a dead issue. So now you have no, Supervisor Russell brought up this topic and I think somebody mentioned we need to brainstorm about it but excuse me, you have got to engage your brains before you brain storm and not knowing what this agenda item meant, there is no way that, you know, I went to the trouble of thinking about it. And when I looked up about ten cases... COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: We didn't talk about legislation... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That is right Benja. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: The animals, no one is really, we don't believe that we should regulate .... MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, you did discuss looking at legislation from other jurisdictions... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Right, that was .... MR. SCHWARTZ: Let me finish and then you can go on. November 30, 2010 Page 56 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: State facts and then you won't get interrupted. MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay. The Johnny Cash song talks about this case. The case held that there are four standards. If an animal trespass or is on someone's property, number one, they need to try and shoo the animal away, drive the animal away before they can do anything else. Number two, they try to catch the animal and confine it or whatever. Number three, if they know or if they can find out who owns the animal, they notify the owner and the owner is given the opportunity to take the animal or whatever. Number four, only if an animal is an incurable nuisance is killing justified. And I think the egg stealing dog was deemed to be an incurable nuisance, that nobody could stop this dog from stealing the eggs but when you have a situation as I did where a guinea hen is broody on a nest and something happens to it and the police tell us that our neighbor Paul Leary killed it and then I make a complaint to the police commission and you know by the way, I asked what you do as the police commission and I don't hear much but I did finally after begging, get a letter back from the town attorney. The problem with that letter .... COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Benja, just to back up a little bit, I don't think, you spoke about your guinea hens so many times but the police never said that the guinea hens were killed because they never found any guinea hens. MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, they did. They told us that our neighbor killed them. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: That is the first time 1 ever heard you say that. MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, now you are listening. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: They never did find them, Chris. They were never found. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: No. MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, now the police have changed their story. So we don't know. But let me just go through, I have one paragraph left here, if I may. The letter from the town attorney starts out with the investigation of a complaint filed on July 13th. The problem is, that complaint pertained to an incident, there was a prior complaint on June 29th, SO the letter does not address the issue at all. Doesn't address the subject of the problem, all it addresses is the complaint. The letter goes on to say that the Department of Environmental Conservation of New York State, sounds like an authority to me but who gave them the right to say what the law is in Southold Town, that they determined that the guinea hens are not protected. Now my letter to which this was a response, cited the section and the content of the law, the New York State Agriculture and Markets law, it says that every animal is protected and I would be happy to read that to you and I told the police officer about that when he came to take this complaint on July or maybe it wasn't on July 13th, it was on, we complained twice. The letter goes on to say that the Suffolk County SPCA was advised by the Department of Environmental Conservation that guinea hens are free ranging and therefore it is the owners responsibility to keep them contained on the owner's November 30, 2010 Page 57 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes property. Well, I don't, with all due respect, I don't think that the DEC, although when I heard that the DEC said they were not protected, I called the DEC next day and I spoke with the DEC officer who is assigned to Southold Town and after I explained it to him he said he understood it and he did not disagree with me that guinea hens were protected. So for this investigation to come up with they are not protected doesn't make any sense. To keep an animal which is free roaming, to say that it has to be confined doesn't make any sense especially when this animal is one of our best defenses against ticks and the diseases that they bring. But every time I get a tick now, I just thank the Town Board. Or the police commission. Because you, the law doesn't just say that anybody who unjustifiably is cruel to an animal is guilty of a misdemeanor, it says that the police not only have authority but have an obligation to bring a legal proceeding against a criminal complaint against anybody who is doing that and it also says that anybody who permits such a thing to go on, so if the police have not done an investigation, other things in that letter from the town attorney it says that the police tried to call Paul Leary but was unable to. Many times, repeatedly, tried to contact him. Well, he is there every morning and every night but besides from that, he made the original complaint on June 13th and in the police report is his phone number, his cell phone number. Nobody asked me if they were having problems contacting Mr. Leary, I could have given them that information. Well, the final thing and I will call it a night is that the letter ended by saying that Southold Town police department does have authority to enforce the New York State Agricultural law against animal cruelty. Well, it is nice that they authority but l would like to see them doing it. Actually enforcing it. And what really got me was when the letter ended and said if I had any, wanted any further information I should contact Captain Rogers from the Suffolk County Society for Prevention to Cruelty from animals, you know, I live in Southold Town. Suffolk County Society for Prevention from Cruelty Animals, I don't know how they are funded, I don't know what but I have a, we have a police force here in Southold Town. And the law says that the police must handle these cases but Southold Town police says no, we don't have anything to do with these cases and oh, okay, we will refer it to Suffblk County Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. That is not the way it should work. Meanwhile, my animals are dead and the ones that are still living, you know, well, I got a little laugh today because Paul Leary drove up his driveway and the guinea hens were on the neighbors property, Alison who happens to love them, everybody in my neighborhood loves those guinea hens, they ask what happened to them, where are they? The grandkids miss them, you know, we were very good tenders of the guinea hens who are classified as animus revertende, every night we would put them away in a beautiful pen which has an enclosed pen and a barn and perches and kept nice and clean and we took great care of them but during the day, guinea hens are free. So now they are roaming around, they are across the street and Paul Leary drives up, and I hear the guinea hens, they start making (makes loud noises at this point) they know who he is and they don't like him. COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Alright. Thank you very much. We had a good 45 minutes tonight, so I am going to make a motion to adjourn. MR. SCHWARTZ: I thank you. Have a good evening. Motion To: Adjourn Town Board Meeting RESOLVED that this meeting of the Southold Town Board be and hereby is declared adjoumed at 9:20 November 30, 2010 Page 58 Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes P.M. RESULT: ADOPTED [UNANIMOUS] MOVER: Christopher Talbot, Councilman SECONDER: Vincent Orlando, Councilman AYES: Linda J Cooper Southold Deputy Town Clerk Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell