HomeMy WebLinkAboutOrient
To Whom it may
concern:
February 9, 1984
~'?e regret that we ~annot attend this evening's
meeting, ~d would like,express ou~ concerns regarding
the proposed master plan by means of this letter.
The ~rst point we would like to discuss is the
Creation of a so-called "han~let commercial" area at
the ~outheast corner of Route 25 and Zabor Rd., where
there presently lies an open f±eld. This suggestion
Creates a co~mmercial "spot" in a formerly entirely
residential ~rea for no purpose at all. The Orient
Country Store on ~illage Lane survives on a very limited
customer base; it adequately serves and will adequately
Serve the needs of even an expanded Orient. The plan
would establish gratuitious competition to the Country
Store and endanger i~ prosperity. The Country Store
is perfect for Orient a~ it is now: the owners know
their customers, provide a counter service where people
Can congregate and generally operate the Store as a
focus for the community. ~'hy endanger this by proposing
an asphalt-enclosed chain store on an already busy road?
Such a facility could only provide products similar to
those offered by the Country Store, and the latter is
much more in keeping with the character of Orient.
Further, the establishemnt of a commercial spot ~
on the ~ain Road could serve as a dangerous pre~ent
which wou!d~hreaten to unravel the residential Mhture
of the area. Look, for example, at Route 58 in Riverhead
to see the remnants of residences sandwiched in between
the shopping centers.
The characteristic of overlooking the nature o~
the place as it is now and providing textbook solutions is
also evident in another proposal of the engineers~ master
plan, namely, that of widening Rou'e 48 from Kenney's~
Road to ~anhass~ Ave. Let there be no delusion aboSut
it -- widening a road is a very traumatic and expenszve
endeavor. Trees cut do~wn, homes demolished, front
gardens uprooted -- and all for what? The engineers
would give us a knee-jerk answer: "to facilitate the
flow o~ traffic". But this ignores the rights of those
living on the ro~d now~-- the overwhelming majority of
structures on the ~rop'osed stretch ure r~.sidential --
to lush c~rs on through. To where?--the Ferry? Southold
is not a ';ay-station on the New London road; it is a
te~'minus in itself where people]live now. The ten
minutes saved by any vehicle speeding along~ widened
Route 48 is not worth the loss to all residents of a
charming stretch of road and the phenomenal cost involved,
Very truly~yours, ·
£AST
Feb~3a~y 13, 1984
SUPPLY CO., INt..
GR£E:NPORT, I... I., N. Y.
INDUSTRIAL.
WHO L-ICSAL-E: HARDWARE
The Planning Board
Town of Southold
Town Hall
Southold, NY 11971
Attn: Mr. Henry Raynor, Chairman
Regarding the proposed plan, in effect rezc~ing Southold Town, it is
noted that our property described on building permit No. 12621Z as
150-270 Corwin Street, Greenport, NY is suggested as residential for
future use.
Having complied with existing zoning requirems~ts to obtain the permit and
about to cu~,~nce construction of a sizeable, expensive project we object
to the suggested proposal regarding this particular property. The
possibility of our investment being classified as non-cc~fo~ming would
effect the potential of the uroject.
We wish to be advised in advance of any actic~s specific to this property.
/Walt~~. Bt~denv Jr. ~
cc: Irving L. Price, Jr.
Ouofat;ons Subject fo Change Without Notice. All Agreemenh Are Contingent Upon Strikes, Accidents end Other Delays Beyond Our Control.
Tarred Neff;rig Sold and Shipped et Purchaser's Risk.
Mr Frank Murphy
Supervisor Southo!d Town
Southold,NY
~ain Road
Orient,NY
11957
March 2~,1984
Dear Mr Murphy, ,','~ 2::~_~ .//~_~__ ~
Along with many others,I am -~ca~-yn~--pleast~d with the
Preliminary Master Plan/Land Use Proposals as prepared by
RPPW. In many respects it seems to be a composite of the
already existing maps. It also lacks imagination. Southold
Town is unique as is every town and this uniqueness does not
seem to be addressed. More to the point,it appears to be a
grid pattern and seems to reflect a Monopoly game with every
possible site filled with houses and motels and no $200.00
for going around Go.
1. The plan is obviously one that assumes that public water
and sewage will be in effect. Not to go into the major prob-
lems and costs that assumption would incur, I wonder why the
plan was not done with the existing private wells and cesspools
in mind? In fact, I feel that,'a plan using the later would
in no way resemble the one that we are offered. Example,the
water stress areas as designated by NYS, Hog Neck,Nassau Pt.
and Orient do not seem to be adequately accounted for.
2. The plan also gives the impression that the goal was to
see maximum density rather than realistiv density given our
limits of resources. Do the residents really want this?
'3. The plan as far as East ~arion is concerned blows the
mind-houses upon houses!
4.Plans for subs before the Planning Board in stages of appro-
val w~re not taken into consideration and some of these soon
to be approved or already approved show as Open Space,Ag
Preservation or ReCreation. Example Oysterponds Settlers.
This is m~s]eading the public into thinking that this will be
open when in fact it will not.
2.
5.The hamlet density disturbs me, as every hamlet is located
on or near the creeks and bays with the exception of Laurel
and further development will have an adverse effect on the
waters, could destroy more ¥iable wetlands so necessary for
all of us.(See Goose Creek Study) Each home with the cesspool
system handles 50% of the waste but 50% is non-point, and the
eventual destination of the total is our viable waters.
6.Water,our crucial commodity,using the aYerages/shew that
each person uses 100 gal. per day and this ~s a minimum-where
will this water come from?Greenport Water which is now being
used by many areas of the towa is sorely stretched to it's
limits. In fact if every home to be serviced by Greenport were
now built, I doubt that the supply would last for more than
a short time. ~e must build and develop within our own limits°
7.A very real and vital aspect of our town for the £uture is
Agriculture with Commercial Fishing second. I do not feel that
the later was fairly dealt with. I also feel strongly that
beach access was not addressed. There are hamlets without
beaches on eitherlbay or sound and some with only one on one
side of the fork and still others with shared Park Districts-
and we are surrounded with water~ Orient is but one example,
we have miles of beaches and yet the only access to these is
one road on the western edge of the hamletoDeveloper~should
be forced to have as part of their project,one road open to
the public for soon these resources will belong exclusively
to those who live in shorefront developmentSoiS this fair?
The points that I have made are but some that concern me. The
whole aspect of Agriculture is in itself trem~ous and can
not be addressed in just one letter.
I do hope that the Town Board will work with RPPW to better
insure a town that we would all li~e to live not just now
but for future years.
Sincerely,
Loraine S Terry
,,]0 H :,! B.
Oriont, N.Y.
Carol dc Ly[3 Tuthili
,3598 ,"~
~.~nooxd Hills Circk.*
Clr~cl,,na;~, .Ohio 45243
P.O. Box 7,
Orisnt,
N.Y.11BS7
feb.~,lS86
Dear Mr. Murphy,
I regret that I was unable to attend the hearing on the
Master Plan held in Orient last Wednesday and I write to tell you
of my support. In doing so I ask to be assured that the Master
Plan deliberations will not in any delay the study that is now in
progress of creating a critical environmental area around
Hallocks Bay. I look forward to the day that both of these plans
are in place.
In both plans I feel that the landowners deserve
as much consideration as possible and that extra care should be
taken to allay any fears they might have of the consequences. In
this connection I am impressed with the negotiations that the
Peconic Land Trust has successfully concluded in fairly similar
situations and suggest that advice from their officers could be
helpful.
Your view that the economy of the area should rest on
agriculture, fishing and tourism is sound and should be the basis
of all plans affecting our future.
With best wishes~
.__~FOiINATION
') RICEIVED ~--""~ /.~~
'~ FEB ~1966 ~
Town CWk Soulhekl
//q~/
FEB 6 1986
FEB 6 1986
Box 695
East Hampton,N.Y.11937
February 5, 1986
Town Board of Southold
Southold, N.Y.
Gentlemen:
It has come to my attention that you are planning to restrict the
south side of the Highway in Orient to 5 acre zoning. I wish to
let you know that I strongly object. Why is it not 2 acre zoning?
I own farm land and wetland on the south side of the Highway and
have paid taxes on it for over 45 years. It was in my family for
well over 100 years before that, and has not cost the Town anything.
There are no buildings expecting fire protection or children requir-
ing an education, busing etc. When I inhereted the property in 1941
the taxes were $85.52, this year they are $1109.90. WHY? Not be-
cause that land has had any more demands on the Town.
You seem to favor low cost housing, allowing 12 units per acre,
this will require fireprotection, schooling and many other expenses,
and you expect us to bear that burden. The East End of the North
Fork is very fragile, our water supply and space for sewrage is
limited. You are merely catering to the developers and builders
from the West End who come into our Community, make a quick buck
and take it ~elswhere, thus destroying the quality of life which
we have had.
Should I, or one of_my children want to build, they would have to
do it on 5 acres. Even i~ the house is no larger than the low cost
housing ones, we would be penalized by having to pay higher taxes,
is this fair? Also can wetlands be considered as part of the lot?
Please consider the families of those who first settled here and
fought for our Independence. The Board is being paid to prote~t
our rights, are you doing that?
Sincerely yours,
Mrs. Louis T. Edwards
Main Road
Orient, New York 11957
February 10, 1986
Southold Town Board
Town Hall
Southold, New York 11971
Attention: Hon. George L. Penny IV
Re: Proposed Five Acre Zoning in Orient
Dear Mr. Penny:
As ! was out of town I missed the meeting at Orient with respect to the proposed
five acre zoning on the south side of the Main Road. As the owzzer along with my
brother of thirty acres of land on the south side I wish to strongly protest such a
zoning change.
It is my understanding the the Master Planners are assuming that there is a water
shortage on the south side of the road. Of course, anyone who has formed this land
including Ed Latham who presently farms our land can assure you that there is
plenty of fresh water available. As a matter of fact Hurricane Gloria left us with-
out power or water for eleven days and we depended on water we obtained by the
pailful from the irrigation pond on the farmland and I assure that it is good fresh
water, l believe the argument of insufficient water is very weak considering the
fact that just across the street where I reside there is no water problem either as
to volume or purity.
From the information I have been able to glean, it seems to me that five acre zoning
is more suitable to the North Shore of Nassau County, i.e. Sands Point where, the
present five acre zoning abuts two acre zoning. Orient has very little two acre
zoning at this point in time and it is hard to imagine that the land use in Orient Will
change and the wealthy will come in, buy five acres, build expensive country
homes and landscape the remaining acres. If the property in question was in a
place where there were shady lanes with restricted motor vehicles, such zoning
migh~t be desirable. However, the land is on the main highway through town. In
s,,,~mer the traffic is a steady stream running to and from the ferry terminal and
State Park. This is hardly the environment for the promotion of open space areas.
Southold Town Board
February 10, 1986
It is probably unnecessary to point out how discriminatory such zoning would be
since it would only affect a few landowners in the entire town. I believe the
environmentalists who push for such zoning must be made to realize that open
spaces cannot be created by appropriating land without compensation.
In conclusion I respectfully ask that you consider my arguments as well as those
of the other landowners against five acre zoning in Orient on the south side of the
Main Road.
Yours very truly,
Edmond L. Papantonio
45 Village Lane
Orient, New York 11957
May 6, 1985
Southold Planning Board
and Southold Town Board
Southold, New York
Dear Sirs:
I am writing in response to the outline of the master plan
summary which appeared in the May 2, 1985 issue of The Suffolk
Times. After the plan was first unveiled last year, I wrote a
letter discussing the matters below, and even received a letter of
appreciation from the appropriate authority assuring me that
consideration would be given to the points which I raised. The
points which I raised were echoed in other letters published in
The Suffolk Times and in the public response at the Orient Hamlet
informational session.
The first point I would like to discuss is the creation of
the general business areas (described as intended for auto-
oriented uses) in the Hamlet of Orient. The map shown on page 20
in The Suffolk Times indicates the creation of a general business
area on Tabor Road near the Main Road and the creation of another
one on the Main Road from Village Lane going west beyond Oyster
Ponds Lane. These areas are presently predominately residential.
I understand the area selected on Tabor Road has recently been
approved for residential subdivision; the area on the Main Road is
comprised of several lots, two of which have homes (one of which
is of historical character and included in the historical dis-
trict), and the rest of the area are prior non-conforming uses
which house the Candyman and a real estate office.
As anyone who has taken a basic course in land use knows,
zoning an area commercial puts a pressure on the properties in
such newly created zone to develop in a commercial manner. The
development of general business areas near the Main Road would
have the immediate effect of driving business away from the shops
on Village Lane and towards businesses as yet not in existence on
land currently used for residences. The nature of the businesses
that would be established there, given the small population of
Orient, could only be those of convenience stores or fast food
stores. This would have a severely negative, if not fatal, impact
on the Orient Country Store, which currently provides services
that a convenience food store would, for it could not match the
economies of scale that a convenience food store would have. The
effect of adding commercial zones to Orient would be to disrupt
the free market commercial and residential expectations of its
residents. The homes which are residential on the Main Road and
newly approved homes on Tabor Road would be forced by the pressure
of economic advantage to apply for and change to commercial uses.
The expansion of the Hamlet business area to historic homes ad-
jacent to the Historical Society on Village Lane and to property
adjacent to the Methodist Church would further injure the residen-
tial nature of Village Lane by encouraging conversion to com-
mercial uses.
The zoning in Orient works the way it is now. The commercial
enterprises on Village Lane are very adequate to handle the needs
of even an expanded Orient, and commercially active Greenport is
merely five minutes away. The consequence of rezoning residential
areas to general business would be to change this and permit
altering the prior non-conforming uses on Main Road to less desir-
able enterprises. After heated opposition was expressed in let-
ters and the hamlet informational meetings, why was a change not
made in the master plan (allegedly revised to include "input from
the public")? The answer apparently is that Raymond, Parish, Pine
& Weiner, Inc., the planning consultants, applied a half-baked
textbook answer to Orient without examining the way the people in
Orient live, how they feel about the character of the place and
the way they use their property. The Tarrytown consultants
applied solutions learned in school without serious concern for
the real needs of the people living in the Hamlet or for their
ideas about how the Hamlet should develop. In face of the criti-
cism by the client (the public), as expressed in public meetings,
the pat solution was not even re-examined; the expenses that were
necessary to analyze one of the finest historical districts in the
State were not worth the fee. So, the solution originally pro-
posed was merely slapped down again. That is unprofessional.
The other matter I wish to discuss is the proposed widening
of a portion of Route 48 to four lanes. This proposal was also
universally rejected because of the catastrophic effect it would
have on the homes which are on Route 48, the danger that would be
created to pedestrians and the disruptive effect it would have on
the nature of the communities that were dissected. An example of
what would result is the intersection of Route 48 and Love Lane in
Mattituck; a chopped up and gerry-mandered solution destroying the
integrated aspect of that part of Mattituck that satisfies no one.
Homes are flush up against the road and subject to noise and per-
il. Any benefit to traffic is lost because the intense develop-
ment requires a 45 mile per hour speed limit with a stoplight and
flashing light to control the traffic. There is no need for four
lanes there, just as there is no need for four lanes on any other
part of Route 48.
-2-
In conclusion, I urge you not to accept the master plan in
toto without reevaluating it and modifying it as appropriate~
heeding the wishes of your constituency as expressed to you in
letters and in the informational meetings and hearings, as you are
legally obligated to do.
Ve~ truly you~,
cc: The Editor, The Suffolk Times
-3-
RECEIVED
AUG 1 91985
IRVING L. PRICE, JR.
ATTORNEY AT LAW
IB~IB FRONT STREET
GREENPORT, L. I., N. Y. 11[}44
August 16, 1985
Town Board of the Town of Southold
Main Road
Southold, New York 11971
Re: PROPOSED ZONING ORDINANCE
Gentlemen:
I represent Floyd F. King, Jr., of Orient and wish
to submit this letter to request the zoning of his premises
on the South side of Route 25 (Tax Map No. 1000-17-6-9.2) be
maintained as business.
There have been reports that certain organizations
from Orient wish all property on Route 25 be zoned residential.
Mr. King's premises are utilized as a real estate and
insurance office and were so used many years by Alfred Luce for
the same.
This is presently non-conforming because of the small
size of the parcel. To rezone this as residential would be con-
fiscatory because it could never be utilized for residential
use.
These premises should remain for business.
ILP/ph
Very truly yours,
Southold Town Board
Main Road
Southold,NY 11971
Dear Board ~embers,
Linden Farm,~ain Road
Orient,NY 11957
Feb. 22,1986
I am writing you in regard to the proposed
~Aaster Plan and it's
application ~o Orient's south side of Main Road,5 ac zoning. At
the Orient meeting many owners of these properties spoke and ex-
pressed a gamut of feelings running from concern to injustice to
outrage.
In essence it does seem that this proposal is both discrim~tory
and arbitrary. I have great concern for the preservation of land,
the conservation of water and the purity of our Hallocks Bay
waters; to be polluted by cesspools and run-off would be a crime.
( the opposition to the Samuels proposal is an example of that)
~nd yet there is an economic factor that must be dealt with.
We owners of south side property are a very small number com-
pared to the entire number of Orient property owrers and yet we
~re being asked to bear the entire environmental burden and the
entire economic one. Is this not discriminatory?
As far as the district chosen by the Naster Plan for 5 ac zoning
is ~'
~n~s not arbitrary? Route 25 does indeed divide the north and
south sides of Orient geographicaly, but in regard to environmen-
tal damage,does it truly reflect the reality?..- property that if
developed in smaller than 5 ac lots would be damaging to the en-
vironment. Not all seems to fit in that category.
The already mapped parcels in Orient are primarily on the north
side of the road a~d these range in size from ~ac to 1 ac and up.
As the normal flow is from north to south it appears that we on
the south side are to be a drainage field for these developments.
!z that really fai~r?~any of us who are owners of south side pro-
petty have never ~pped them as we had no desire to develop and
felt that to map w.~uld be dishones~ere we the fools? Keep in
mind that a five a~ lot will never bring in price five times what
a one ac lot would.In addition buy,rs for five ac lots are much
~n the .....
-2-
I would ].i~¢e to see some reasonable balance plac~d on this issue.
Could you not entertain a concept of cluster zoning for the up-
land portion of the land under question not to exceed the density
that 2 ac zoning would be, leaving the southern portion ~n open
space? I am very aware of the legal problems in this proposal
however in reality ~t might prove to be more benefica! to all
concerned and definately less costly that multiple lawsuits that
I fear will eventually evolve.
Remember please that many of us who hold land in this 5ac proposed
section,have deeds that date back to the 1600's, we did not choose
the location but it ~s mere chance that we are effected. We are not
dsve!opers nor speculators but long time owners. W~ haYe worked
hard to keep this ].and in agriculture or open space, a kind of
bank account if you ~vill for our senior years and it appears that
with this proposal ~t might be a sacrifice that ycu, in one fell
swoop could destroy.
Sincerely,
Bill and Loraine Terry
Platt Road, P.O. Box 82
Orient, New York 11957
J TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
July 12, 1986
Dear Supervisor Murphy and members of the Southold Town Board:
The enclosed article by Orient resident Orville Terry exactly
expresses my views on the subject of the proposed changes in
zoning in Orient under the revised town Master Plan. There are.
at present over 750 households in Orient; you have a
responsibility to give the complaints of a mere dozen of those
households the weight they deserve, but no more. You have a
responsibility to all of us to abide by the recommendations of
your own experts to ensure the continued safety of our fragile
water supply. I urge you most strongly to retain the compromise
three-acre zoning for Orient.
There is ample evidence to support the statement made both by
Orville Terry and by Martin Trent in his letter to the Suffolk
Times (copy enclosed) that open space and larger lots increase
land values. The towns of Lincoln and Sudbury, Mass., outside
Boston, are examples with which I am familiar. People will pay
premium prices to live in communities that care about and take
care of their open space, bays and wetlands. Thus, the fears of
the large landowners of personal losses should they decide to
sell (and the threats of lawsuits based on those fears) are
groundless.
Very truly ygurs,
Anne S. Hopkins
POB ~,
PECONIC, L. I., N.Y. 11958--';>~
Ju:Ly 2o, 198~ . jUL '2. 5
Supervisor Murphy
Council Members & Bd.
of Trustees
Southold, L.I., ~.Y. 11971
Dear Town Board:
RE: ORIENT POINT ZONI~IG
This letter is a clarification Of our letter of July 14, 1986,
regarding this topic.
It is felt that the five acre zoning is most effective in
preserving clean water in Orient Point. However, inasmuch
as the Town Board did not approve 5 acre zonin~ ~ 3 or 4
acres would be the least detrimental to the environment.
Orient Point is too fragile to support 2 acre~' for purposes of
future construction.
Very truly yours,
Vilma L. ularston
Pres.
t · OFFICE RVI-'~OR
FRANCIS J. MURPHY, TO__LO
SUImER VJ~OR
MAIN ROAD
SOUTHOLD, L.I., N.Y. 11971
July 25, 1986
TELEPHONE
(516) 765-1800
{516) 765-1939
Water, Land, Wildlife
Protection Group
Vilma Louise Marston. President
PO Box 159
Peconic, NY 11958
Dear Mrs. Marston;
This is a follow-up on my letter of the 23rd. We
have scheduled 2:30 PM on Tuesday, July 29, 1986 to
discuss Orient Point zoning in regard to the Master Plan
during our work session.
Sincerely,
Supervisor
Town of Southold
FJM:btr
R~IV~
OCT o-;~ 1986
ORIENT SERVICE CENTER, INC.
M~IN ROAD
ORIENT, NEW YORK11957
OCT 8
L'OPY Fire lmm
INFORIL4TIO~
Oct. 1, 1986
To Bennet Orlowski- Chairman of the Southold Town Planning Board,
It was my understanding that on the proposed master plan
the gas station located on the Main Road intersecting Platt Road
in Orient, N.Y. was to be zoned B-business. My conversation with
David E~lita on October 1, 1986 confirmed this. Mr. Emilita
stated that the reason this property was not changed to B-business
on the map was due to a draftsman's error.
I would appreciate it if on the new proposed master plan map
the correction be made to list the above named property as B-business.
Respectfully,
Philip M. Finkle-President
Orient Service Center, Inc.
Main Road
Orient, New York11957
Frank Boadarctxuk ~
Orient,N.Y. 11957
November 20,1986
Supervisor Frank l~rphy
Bouthol& Town Boar&
Main R~a&
Southol&,~.Y.119?l ~'
This letter,Y~.~iurphy ....
..... responding to our conversation about the former pit
that ~ own off Rocky point R&.,East~arions~.y.yesterAaY
November 19,1986.
At present it is zone& commercial,the new Master Plan
changes it to'resiAential. This will put · financial
bur&eh upom me as I ~on't think the lan&will be suitable
for two homes.This lan& is part&sly filleA with brush an&
materials other than garbage an& couli ~e use& for
commercial purposes., a sQarce
P~ior to me purchasing the Sani it was usel as
for fill ~hen the State move&Rt.25 to the south near Polls
garage an& also flatten the Rs&IR os& overpass to t~e west.
I continure& to mine it an& also use it for a place to put
brush an& other Aebris other than garbage.
In 198~the D.E.C.stoppeA me from using the pit without ·
legal landfill permit.They sent me the proper forms but I
chose not to use the pit .It might have cause& problems
with people &umping garbage aha hazarious materials.The pit
has since been isle.
To c~ange to resiAential from commercial as yom see wouli
put me in a financial burden aniunnecessary harAship.
I therefore ask you to please continue the commercial
&es&gnat&on of the pit on the new Master Plau...~henk ~ou..
t sbPERViSOE~
CorAially,