HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-07/29/2010 Hearing 6
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TOWN OF SOUTHOLD ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK: STATE OF NEW YORK
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
RECEZVED
ZONING BOARD OF APPEALS
Southold Town Hall
Southold, New York
July 29, 2010
9:32 a.m.
Board Members Present:
GERARD P. GOEHRINGER - Member,
JAMES DINIZIO, JR. - Member
GEORGE HORNING - Member - start
KENNETH SCHI~EIDER - Member
Vice Chairperson
to 3:05 p.m.
ABSENT: LESLIE KANES WEISMAN - Chairperson/Member
JENNIFER AiqDALORO - Assistant Town Attorney
VICKI TOTH - Secretary
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
Hearing:
Fishers
INDEX OF HEARINGS
Island Fire District #6399
Southold Free Library #6391
Rita Duran #6395
Charles D. and Diane Harkoff RVC. TR #6392
Maritime Day School
(H&S Assoc. Realty, LLC) #6397 55-60
Regina's Garden LLC #6388 61-63
Michael and Carolee Levison #6402 64-76
Gillian Francis and Sarah Salm #6400 77-84
Harriet McNamara #6393 85-102
John E. and Sharon I. Wren #6389 103-137, 161-172
Jennie Pappas #6390 138-153
Christa Hildebrand and Jeff Abrams #6373 154-160
Kevin and Jeanine Faga #6367 173-213
Theodore C. Martz, Jr. #6344 214-239
Page:
3-10
11-28
29-37
38-54
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
meeting to order.
BOARD MEMBER:
BOARD MEMBER:
Motion?
So moved.
Second.
Call
HEARING #6399 - Fishers Island
Fire District
MEMBER HORNING:
~Request for a Variance from Code
Sections 280-122 and 280-15, based on an
application for building permit and the
Building Inspector's March 29, 2010, amended
April 27, 2010 Notice of Disapproval,
concerning additions/alterations to existing
fire station and "as built" accessory shed, 1)
proposed addition is not permitted, it shall
create new nonconformance or increase the
degree of nonconformance, 2) less than the
code required front yard setback of 60 feet on
both roads, 3) accessory structure not in the
code required rear yard with a front yard
setback of 13 feet at: Athol Crescent and
Equestrian Ave., Fishers Island. SCTM#1000-9-
2-4.1."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Mr. Ham,
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
how are you this morning? Would you please
state your appearance?
MR. HAM: Good morning. Steven Ham 38
Nugent Street, Southampton for the applicant.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you,
sir. Would you like to do your presentation
before we talk to you about (inaudible)?
MR. HAM: Thank you.
All right, the firehouse building was
built in the 1960s, early 1960s and has never
been expanded since that date. I've attached
to the memorandum an affidavit of Chris
Edwards who is the Chairman of the Buildings
Committee for the Fire District, giving
reasons as to why additional space is needed.
Briefly they will add a bay, which will
accommodate a larger truck, which will replace
one of the trucks and there will not be room
for that without that expansion. The office,
existing office in the building, is very small
and serves numerous functions and it's just
been outgrown. It causes some security issues
as well with records that have to be kept
secure. The setbacks are greater -- the
setbacks of the addition are greater than the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
building itself, which is fairly close to both
roads. It's a very odd-shaped lot and I'm not
going to go into all the -- address all the
statutory criteria which I do in the
memorandum.
The main point that I would make in this
case, this is not the usual case where I'm
before you arguing to balance the interest of
a private property owner with the public.
Basically you have much greater leeway in
terms of granting variances in a case like
this when the public benefit is clear. The
fire department needs to act, to be able to
react efficiently and these are fairly modest
expansion to address real needs.
As far as the shed is concerned, I'm told
that it was built at least 20 years ago and at
the time inquiry was made of the Building
Department Eric Horton at the time told them
they didn't need anything. I see from the
assessment card that there was a permit issued
in 1974, but in any event it's been there a
long time and needs to be accessible and we do
have an issue here with wetlands in the rear
of the building. So even if we were starting
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
from scratch, I think you'd agree that we'd
probably be before you to ask for a variance
for this structure.
I'm further told that given that the
expansion of the office for the addition for
the office and the truck bay is fairly modest
and that this storage shed is still needed and
these factual issues are addressed as I say,
in the affidavit of Mr. Edwards in Exhibit A
to my memorandum.
That's all I'm going to say for now, I
think. The area variance issues even for a
private property owner would be compelling in
a case like this given the shape of the
property and so forth, but it's even more
compelling given the applicant, which is not a
private property owner but a public service.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: George?
MEMBER HORNING: I'm familiar with the
property fairly well and I wanted to clarify,
I'm looking at the Board of Trustees' letter
saying that it's not in their wetlands
jurisdiction and there's a little note on the
survey that says the approximate limits of the
freshwater wetlands to be verified by the New
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
York State DEC. Now, is that still in the
works or we don't need to go there with that?
MR. HAM: They were there and said we
don't need to go there for that.
MEMBER HORNING: The DEC?
MR. HAM: No.
MEMBER HORNING: There's nothing in
writing.
MR. HAM: No, it has not been verified by
the DEC which is hard, they're very hard to
get over there to do that, but the Trustees as
you know visited the site in early May and it
is well away from the wetlands. The
disturbance involved in the construction of
the addition is on a disturbed area already on
another side of the building, so it's not an
issue as far as I know.
MEMBER HORNING: Well, let me ask this
then. Did the committee researching the
location the building plan proposal and all
that, did they look into citing the addition
anywhere else on the property to your
knowledge --
MR. HAM: No.
MEMBER HORNING: -- or the wetlands were
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
an impediment to all of that?
MR. HAM: Well, also, just as a practical
matter, they in consultation with the
architects, Albert, Ritter and Tipman, they
worked closely with them and the logical
place, if you need a truck bay, is to put it
where they're putting it, next to the other
truck bay and then the office, you just need
additional space and it just made sense to go
in that direction. They are improving the
fagade of the, I should mention this too, the
new addition will be -- you know, I think what
you have here, as I mention in the memorandum,
a 1960-style firehouse that you might see in
any suburban community; whereas this new
addition will, in this very public area on the
island, will present a better aesthetic front
more in keeping with island architecture. So
that's an additional benefit and I think, you
know, that's part of the design as well. It
just made sense, were there not wetlands, to
put it there.
MEMBER HORNING: Would you say then that
this is for all practical purposes this is one
of the most, if not the only, feasible way
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
they could expand?
MR. HAM: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: -- given the wetlands
situation?
MR. HAM_M: Yes and I address the
alternatives in the memorandum.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I just want
to say being a 42-1/2 year member of a fire
department on this island the OSHA
requirements for the construction vehicles
have grown to such a point that I can
understand why they need this truck bay and
we've put numerous additions on our building
in the past several years and they involve
higher doors, wider doors, bigger areas and so
on and so forth. So I am totally in agreement
with the addition of the truck bay and having
been in some of the office areas of the
original firehouse, I can understand the
situation also.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No questions.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay,
anybody else in the public who would like to
speak in favor or against the first hearing
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
today? This is the Fishers Island hearing for
the Fishers Island Fire Department or Fire
District.
Seeing no hands, I make a motion closing
the hearing, reserving decision until later.
MEMBER HORNING: Second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6391 - Southold Free Library
MEMBER HORiqING:
"Request for Variances from Code Section
280-46, based on an application for building
permit and the Building Inspector's October
13, 2009, Notice of Disapproval concerning
proposed addition to a commercial building,
at: height exceeding maximum number of
stories allowed of two stories at; 53705 Main
Rd. and Traveler St., Southold. SCTM#1000-61-
1-15.1, 15.2, 14."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Is there
anybody here to hear this particular -- excuse
me, do a presentation regarding this
particular hearing?
MS. MacArthur: I'm (inaudible) Caroline
MacArthur, Director of the Library.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, could
you just come up here, Caroline, if you don't
mind?
MS. MacARTHUR: Yes. Caroline MacArthur,
Director of the Southold Free Library.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: What we're
going to do is going to propose to the Board
that we hold this hearing in abeyance for a
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
short period of time until Mr. Stromski is
here.
MS. MacARTHUR: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay and
we'll do that. So let me offer a resolution
to hold this hearing in abeyance --
MEMBER HORNING: Well, Jerry, is there
anything she can tell us in the meantime?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEMRINGER: Well, I
think they're primarily waiting, I'm not
second guessing any of these three ladies back
there, but I think you're kind of waiting for
the architect; are you not?
MEMBER MORNING: Can you call him on the
cell phone, by chance? Is he on his way?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Oh, he's
coming in now. All right.
MEMBER HORNING: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEMRINGER: So there's
no reason for the abeyance.
Mr. Stromski, could you please give us --
you are Mr. Stromski, right?
MR. STROMSKI: Yes, I am.
VICE CMAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Wonderful.
Could you give us your appearance, please?
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MR. STROMSKI: Sure. My name is Robert
Stromski. I'm one of the authorized
architects for the project of Southold Free
Library. They've made an application to your
Board for a variance due to the fact that the
proposed addition that we're proposing for the
Southold Free Library according to New York
State Building Code is classified as a three-
story building.
One of the issues as was stated in the
application is the fact that the property to
the east of the library that we're looking to
do the addition has a grade change of almost
10 feet. So basically the existing grade of
the existing parcel is right about the same
elevation of the current lower level of the
Southold Free Library. The addition that we
propose, according to the master plan and
goals of the Southold Free Library came into
the requirement of nearly 7,900 square feet,
which we'd like to extend each of the floors
making the proposed addition three-story.
We have in the application stated that we
were very sensitive to the adjacent property
owners. One of the major aspects of the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
design is that the design is terraced.
Basically, as it goes to the east property it
terraces down to one story so the adjacent
property to the east is not met with a three-
story wall. The three-story element basically
is just the center atrium piece which is the
separation between the existing building and
the proposed addition. Also, we would just
like to note that the proposed volume that
we're looking to do is not going to increase
the height of the existing building. We're
actually lower than the existing ridge.
We do meet with the 35-foot height
limitation from a mean average grade. The
reason why we're classified as a three-story
is according to New York State Building Code
as you take the entire perimeter of the
building and you look at what height the first
or it would be the main elevation is above the
adjacent grade, instead of being less than the
required 7 feet, we're at 7.9 feet. So we're
very, very close into what's being considered
as a three-story.
We feel that we were sensitive to the
adjacent property owners. We tried to not
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
create a volume that would give the impression
of a three-story addition due to the fact that
the property does slope down as it heads to
the east. We also have set the building back
so the property in front of the street has a
type of urban plaza and that is basically the
area that is right adjacent to the next
building. So we felt that we were very
sensitive to the existing neighbors.
We also had received and I believe you
had gotten a copy of comments from the
Planning Department which they basically tend
to agree with our assessments that we were
sensitive to the adjacent areas. We tried to
place the addition on an appropriate portion
of the site and, therefore, we feel that this
is the best possible solution to meet the
library's goals and also the goals in the
character of the surrounding neighborhood and
community.
Do you have an questions at
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
third story going to comprise? I just need
that for the record.
MR. STROMSKI: Basically the third story
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What is the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
is going to be extension of the current
reading area that's above that. Basically the
existing building has the Whitaker room and
also some reference area. We're looking to in
our proposed addition create additional quiet
reading areas for reference and also the
possibility of some study -- separate study
room carousels and also with the design of the
roof terraces there is an actual portion of
the roof garden that you would be able to walk
out onto and also the staff lounge is located
on the third floor as well.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And that
would be how big in square footage, Mr.
Stromski?
MR. STROMSKI: As listed in the
application, the proposed addition for that
third level would be 1,219 square feet.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
Was there any contact with the Southold
Town Fire District regarding the three-story
aspect of this construction?
MR. STROMSKI: Not at this point, but we
have also submitted a site plan application
which I believe at that point there would be
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
some comments from the local Fire Marshall and
also other departments and agencies throughout
the town. We have yet to get some of those
comments, but I do anticipate in the near
future that we would have those conversations.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MEMBER HORNING: When is your hearing
with the Planning Board?
MR. STROMSKI: We haven't had -- we
haven't received any notification of an
appearance before the Planning Board at this
point. Just recently we submitted all the
documentation for their review. They have
some additional information which we needed to
give them. I'm still awaiting the Planning
Department as to when our first appearance
would be before the Board as far as a work
session.
MEMBER HORNING: Okay, let me ask about
on your site plan here the existing frame
residence to be relocated and partially
demolished. Tell us about that.
MR. STROMSKI: Basically what it is is
that single-story residence has some historic
significance to the area. It is not a
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
registered building.
post office.
UNIDENTIFIED:
MR. STROMSKI:
I believe it was an old
(Inaudible).
Town Clerk's office.
There was a subsequent addition that was made
to the rear of the main building. What we're
looking to do is one of the reasons we're
looking to move it is we investigated a lot of
different designs for the proposed parking of
the property. Basically where that building
sits created the best route for safety for
school buses and so forth to have that parking
in that area. One of the things that we tried
to do is by picking up the building the reason
why we're partially demolishing it is we're
not looking to pick up the building and move
the addition, really just the main part of the
building whatever had some historic
significance to that. That's the portion of
the building that we're looking to move.
We're looking to move it towards the west a
little closer to Travelers Street so it pretty
much looks to maintain the existing pedestrian
traffic that is along Travelers Street from
Feather Hill and those buildings and also with
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
the post office we're trying to create a
pedestrian corridor on that parcel. The
possible uses for that building, we discussed
with the library. There hasn't been any
definitive determinations, but we do feel it
may be some sort of accessory office space for
the library. A possible art gallery as in
connection with the library uses, t hats
basically who we've kind of described the
potential uses in our site plan application as
well.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MEMBER HORNING: In moving that to create
the parking area, those spaces plus the
municipal parking adjacent to the property you
feel is sufficient to meet the requirement for
your parking needs?
MR. STROMSKI: Yes. We've done the
parking calculations as per the Town Code and
we have had some discussions with the Planning
staff that was one of the additional
information they required. Currently we're
looking to add -- well, what we're going to
have in total -- right now we have around six
spaces, we're going to have a total of 48
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
spaces. According to the calculations, the 4
spaces that we have would meet the
requirement. The fact that we have those
additional municipal spaces we feel would help
out whenever the library has any sort of
larger functions within the new community room
and so forth. So we do feel that the parking
at this point is adequate. Obviously, we will
have discussions with the Planning Board if
they have some feelings or recommendations to
that. We feel that we've made the argument
and given them sufficient information that we
do feel that the 48 spaces will be sufficient.
MEMBER HORNING: You have six spaces now?
MR. STROMSKI: Currently, yes. That's
all the library has.
MEMBER MORNING: Did I notice two of
those are handicap access?
MR. STROMSKI: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING:
increase it to four
MR. STROMSKI:
have six total.
MEMBER HORNING:
here on here.
So you're going to
for handicap --
I believe we're going to
Well, this says four
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MR. STROMSKI: Okay, I believe the site
plan that we're working with the Planning
Department there are six spaces total.
MEMBER HORNING: For handicap
accessibility?
MR. STROMSKI: Yes. They're spaced
throughout because the building that we're
looking to move we wanted two spaces near that
building and other spaces where there's
currently handicapped spaces now there would
be a few there and then also a few down near
the new lower entrance because the lower level
is now going to be the main entrance and exit
of the building. The current entrance that is
now is basically going to be used more as a
secondary for children's groups because in
that area is where we're going to put the
children's library. So we thought that
keeping that entrance for the children so they
wouldn't disrupt the rest of the library, it
was more advantageous to do it that way. Also
it helps us with the loading berth we can have
the school buses kind of drop the kids off on
that lower level. They're out of traffic's
way so they have a safer walkway to the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
entrance there.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I read, when this was
first proposed, I read the paper and there
seemed to be some opposition to it. I was
just wondering if you heard anything about
that. I don't think we've received any
letters in opposition to this I guess
specifically about the design. I don't know
if it's the same design that they had proposed
or if it's different or --
MR. STROMSKI: The design that's
currently before you is the design that's been
presented to the public. We've had a few
public meetings at the library trying to keep
the community abreast of what was going on.
We recently just had another last Thursday
where there were some discussions. Some of
the questions, I don't if it was more in
opposition, were about the type of materials
that we were using for the atrium. Some felt
we would like to use some of the existing
brick.
Our standpoint is we'd really like to --
the reason why the building is set back is
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we're trying to bring focus to the existing
original portion of the building and try and
keep it in the forefront as kind of like the
jewel in our building with that atrium we're
hoping that on the inside the outside of that
existing building is going to become a
permanent interior elevation for the building.
So you're going to be able to see that from
outside and inside. We haven't really been
met with a lot of opposition as to the design
concept, just as to some thoughts to the
amount of glass due to energy, but we're
looking into the use of translucent panels to
create a warm soft daylight so we don't have
to use artificial light during the day to try
and reduce energy consumption. So there's a
lot of reasons kind of why the building has
taken that path.
Most of the feedback that we have gotten
there were some questions from the meetings
that we've had and that I've attended there's
been more of a positive feeling as to the
concept and the need for the additional space.
I personally haven't dealt with a lot of
negative criticism as to the size and scope of
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the project. So at this point I don't know if
the -- if anybody from the Board would want to
elaborate on any discussions they've had with
the community, but as far as I can tell I've
seen some of the written comments cause they
have a suggestion box at the library and the
library had typed those out and as the
architects we received a lot of those comments
cause we're trying to incorporate some of the
responses from the community into the
building. There were some discussions about
interior spaces and circulation and the type
of things that they were looking to maintain.
One of the major things was try and keep the
kids separate, have more of a private reading
area which we feel we've accommodated. So
there has been a back and forth with the
community and at this point from my
recollection it's been fairly positive.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I was wondering, would
it be possible to get a copy of that? The
handout that he gets that he's speaking about
concerning comments from the public.
UNIDENTIFIED: (Inaudible).
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, it would be good to
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have as part of the record that, you know, we
investigated it. I think that's all I have.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I have no questions.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
Let's see what develops if any one of the nice
ladies in the back want to say anything, they
are certainly welcome to, but we'll go to the
public other than them. Is there anybody in
the public that would like to speak, other
than the three nice people that came, for or
against this application?
Seeing no hands, we're ready. Could you
state your name for the record, please?
MS. PHARR: Pauline Pharr, I'm a Trustee.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: How do you
do?
Farr,
F-A-R-R?
MS. PHARR: No, P-H-A-R-R.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MS. PHARR: I just want to say that we
worked very hard trying to get a design that
would incorporate the space that we predict
we'll need for the next 20 years and also
would be a visual asset to downtown Southold
and I think this design will be striking and
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green with the green roofs that help preserve
heat in the winter and coolness in the summer
and will just be a general asset to the
community and we tried to incorporate
traditional ideas with future looking ideas in
the design. So that's my comment.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you
very much.
Mr. Stromski, can I
MR. STROMSKI: Sure.
ask you a question?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I'll make a
statement anyway. Normally we have comments
from the Planning Board, we don't have them at
this particular point. The Board then
reserves the right to either ask for comments
and/or make a decision subject to Planning
Board approval. Okay, so either one of those
situations may or may not occur. You know, I
can't answer that question at this particular
point and -- Oh.
MR. STROMSKI: As far as I know, there
was a letter that was addressed to the
Chairperson Leslie Weisman --
BOARD SECRETARY: It's right here.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah.
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MR. STROMSKI: -- and I've received a
copy of that letter, so I would think that
those were the comments that you would be
looking for.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah. I
just meant any additional comments that may be
forthcoming.
MR. STROMSKI: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And
discussion with -- I think the point in
question is to make the file complete any
other comments that may be forthcoming and I'd
like to close the hearing based upon that
situation from any particular outside agencies
that you might be dealing with within the next
two to three weeks would be to our benefit to
make part of the file and to incorporate into
a decision. You don't have any problems with
that, do you, closing the hearing based upon
that? I am aware of this letter from Martin
(Inaudible) and then any additional
information that we might receive.
So anybody have any objection to that?
Okay, is there anybody else would like to
speak? Just stay there one second, just in
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case.
I see no hands, I will make a motion
closing the hearing based upon any additional
comments that the library and/or the
engineering firm may receive regarding this so
that we can make it part of the record and I
will say probably until around the 21st or 22nd
of August. Actually, I should say before that
because our special meeting is on the 18tn,
right, so we'll say the 17tn of August. Okay?
MR. STROMSKI: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Pending
receipt and inclusive of the information that
we'll get from the Director regarding Mr.
Dinizio's request for the booklet, okay?
MR. STROMSKI: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I offer
that as a resolution.
MEMBER HOP~NING: I'll second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6395 Rita Duran
MEMBER DINIZIO:
"Request for Variance from Code Section
280-124, based on an application for building
permit and the Building Inspector's March 18,
2010 Notice of Disapproval, concerning
additions to existing dwelling, 1) lot
coverage at more than the code required
maximum of 20%, at: 1145 Smith Dr., So.,
Southold. SCTM#1000-76-2-33."
MR. FITZGERALD: Jim Fitzgerald for Ms.
Duran.
I will as usual read my speech
(inaudible). The proposed renovation and
expansion of the existing single-family
dwelling, although resulting in a house
significantly different in style from the
existing house, will produce a house similar
in size and style to a number of recently
renovated homes in the area. The proposed
house is two stories in height, but this is
not unusual with the renovated or newer houses
in the neighborhood.
The renovated dwelling will be comparable
to many other dwellings in the neighborhood
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
that have already been renovated and upgraded
and its construction will support the notion
that the neighborhood is on a upward trend
with 24 of the 50 homes on the two Smith
Streets already seeing to have been renovated
or newly built to larger and more
aesthetically classy designs.
The benefit sought in this case, to
renovate and expand the existing house in a
manner that meets the day-to-day living needs
of the owners, is consistent with the design
guidelines they've provided to the architect,
requires a slightly larger footprint than the
existing dwelling. The home as proposed is
modest by comparison to today's residential
projects throughout the town and the owners
feel that it's important that this project
considering the expense meet their needs. The
relief requested for lot coverage exceeding
the Code limit by 2 percent amounts to only
about 175 square feet and the requested
additional lot coverage is located such that
the side yard setback at the location of the
proposed expansion is 23 feet compared to the
Code required minimum of 10 feet. It should
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be noted that 64 of the 175 square feet within
an existing setback not visible from the
street and not contributing to the overall
dimensions of the proposed renovated dwelling.
Thank you.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay, I didn't get the
reasons for the variance in my application,
but I don't think I'll need that.
MR. FITZGERALD: I have (inaudible).
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay, Mr. Fitzgerald. I
got everything but the reasons for the
variance in my application, but I know it's
not a problem cause you're very thorough and
if I can get a copy of those comments that
would be very nice. Is this a teardown? Are
you tearing down the house?
MR. FITZGERALD:
demolition, it's --
MEMBER DINIZIO:
to the house,
those things,
No. No. It's not a
Okay, you're just adding
you're changing the fagade; all
correct?
used
MR. FITZGEP~ALD:
MEMBER DINIZIO:
for just cars?
MR. FITZGERALD:
Yes.
Okay and the garage is
What we all use our
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
garages for, to put stuff in.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay, it's got stuff.
You have to have a place to keep your stuff.
MR. FITZGERALD: That's right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's all I have.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No questions.
MEMBER HORNING: No, sir.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Nothing?
MEMBER HORNING: No.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MEMBER HORNING: Let me ask one question,
I see a note here on your applicant's project
description page where you've gone from a one-
floor tlrpe (inaudible) type style house to a
two floor. Is that just a proposed addition
to the whole -- you're knocking down the roof
of the existing and renovating, that's what's
called a renovation?
MR. FITZGEP~ALD: (Inaudible) construction
would be in effect, yes.
MEMBER HORNING:
certainly looks like
MR. FITZGEHALD:
MEMBER HORNING:
Well, I mean the picture
it encompasses the entire
Yes.
-- structure.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MR. FITZGERALD: Yes.
MR. KEHL: If you'd like, I can answer
some of these questions. My name is Greg
Kehl, I'm the designer.
If you notice the left hand side of the
house is a previous structure, so therefore it
was non-compliant at the time of construction
probably 1950s, mid-50s. We can't touch it,
so therefore the roof system has to stay at
the same elevation, same distance, roof pitch,
everything or we'd be increasing the
nonconformity on that side of the house. So
therefore the addition is from our legal
setback point from that side of the property
line to the other side.
A couple of corrections I wanted to make.
This is not a two-story house, this is
considered a 1-1/2 story. If we went to a
two-story house this would look like a
McMansion on a small lot. This was the reason
for this design so that it would comply or
make the whole neighborhood look -- we don't
want houses on quarter acre or something like
that that are just skyscrapers, straight up.
So we tried to keep the roofline as low as
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
possible so that it would fit in the
neighborhood and not -- neighbors would not
lose their privacy because you have this house
towering over. So we tried to do everything
within the roofline.
If you notice looking at the front of the
house on the left hand side of the house,
there is -- there are no windows. The only
two windows are on the back of the bathroom on
the second floor and the two on the back of
the bedroom and the two on the front are only
in the stairwell access to the second floor
and the ones on the right hand side are in the
little sitting room, but it's setback far
enough from the property line that you're not
looking right into the neighbor's house.
The actual increase of the -- over the
compliance of 20 percent is actually 1.9
percent, which is equal to 145 square feet.
If, by any means, we were to reduce the size
of the house to comply to the 20 percent
coverage, the second floor being that
everything is built within the rafter system,
the rafters would get so small there would be
no second floor bedroom. So therefore we
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
would have to go to a full two-story and then
we'd be a tower. So this is what we tried to
sort of build around working sort of like
almost within a pyramid law that we don't have
just to try and keep so that the neighbors
didn't feel like they were being encroached on
because they didn't want to feel like they'd
look out a window and look into the neighbor's
house.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: What is the
ceiling height, Mr. Kehl, on the second floor?
MR. KEHL:
1/8 (inaudible)
wide.
The second floor is 8 foot 1-
and that room is only 14 feet
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MR. KEHL: In that master bedroom.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MEMBER HORNING: Is that the only room on
the second floor?
MR. KEHL: It's the only room on the
second floor, one bedroom.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: While
you're standing there, is there anyone who'd
like to speak in favor or against this
application?
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MEMBER DINIZIO: May I ask something, Mr.
Kehl?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So the reason for the
variance is the roofline --
MR. KEHL: Right. Right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: -- and the width of the
room upstairs would be reduced to a point
where you wouldn't have any headroom.
MR. KEHL: There wouldn't be any room up
there, it would actually be only 8 feet wide
if we had to reduce it in order to get a
bedroom up there and then at that point there
you'd have to go to a full two-story addition
which would be take that roof system and raise
it another 8 feet or we could even go 9 feet -
MEMBER DINIZIO: Right.
walls --
MR. KEHL: Yeah, walls
then the roof.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay,
Full 8-foot
fully exposed and
thank you.
MR. KEHL: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
Hearing no comment from anyone in the public,
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
I'll offer a resolution closing the hearing,
reserve decision until later.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6392 - Charles D. and
Diane Harkoff, RVC. TR.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
"Request for Variance from Code Sections
280-122A and 280-15, based on an application
for building permit and the Building
Inspector's March 10, 2010, Notice of
Disapproval concerning renovations/additions
and nas built" storage buildings, at:
'~For the renovations/additions; 1) less
than the code required side yard setback of 15
feet, 2) less than the code required front
yard setback of 15 feet; 3) (Pursuant to Walz
(5039) interpretation such renovations and
additions will constitute an increase in the
degree of nonconformance)
~For the storage buildings: 1) less than
the code required side yard setback of 15
feet, 2) less than the code required rear yard
setback of 25 feet, 3) accessory structures
located in area other than the code required
rear yard; Lot coverage at more than the code
required maximum of 40%, at: 835 First St.,
Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-117-8-15. Zone - HB."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Nancy,
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
would you give us your appearance, please?
MS. STEELMA/~: My name is Nancy Steelman,
Samuels and Steelman Architects. The owners
are also here, Diane and Dennis Harkoff.
I would first like to submit the mailings
that we tried to serve.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thanks.
MS. STEELMAN: Okay. I think probably
everyone is familiar with Legends. Legends is
located in New Suffolk and the owners Diane
and Dennis have owned the restaurant since
1993. There are approximately 80 seats and
our application does not increase any of the
seating in the restaurant, the capacity will
stay the same. It is zoned Hamlet Business
and as a result of Hamlet Business we have a
variety of setbacks that we are required to
meet.
We have a 15-foot front yard setback,
also a 25-foot rear yard setback, and 15-foot
side yard and another 10-foot side yard on
your site plan for a total of 25 feet side
yard setback. This is (inaudible)
nonconforming lot, there is approximately
6,312 square feet which is 0.145 acres. So
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
it's a very small Hamlet Business site. We
have some old photographs back from 1938 so
we're not exactly sure when this structure was
built and I will show you these so it will
give you a sense that in 1938 the existing
building was approximately here (inaudible).
This section is actually in line with what's
there now and this is now the area that we're
looking at renovating. This area was removed
when Diane and Dennis bought this and they
built a dining room in this area. This is
(inaudible) 1938 (inaudible).
There's a long history of this building
on the site. I'm not sure how far back, but
(inaudible).
So Diane and Dennis contacted our office
approximately a year ago, they had received
some information from their insurance company
(inaudible) to look at some of the structure
in the bar area and in the past when they had
done the renovation they had raised the
(inaudible) in the area over the bar to get
more height in the bar area and raise the
floor level. At that time I believe some of
the structural issues started to occur with
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
the wall going out towards the street, that
wall.
We looked at trying to get this resolved
internally as well as we could, but we
realized that with the expense and the closing
the restaurant and reconstructing portions of
the roof and the wall that it would make more
sense to take the existing roof off, remove
the front wall, and reconstruct. Now, to do
that we thought, well if we're going through
all that work, it would make more sense to
possibly raise the wall height on the front,
which is now 7-foot
that, take the roof
(inaudible).
to plate height, raise
off and redesign the
So as part of that we were then realizing
that to come into the front yard that 15 feet
we'd have to move that setback and that's why
we're here for a zoning variance right now.
We are increasing the nonconformity by raising
the roof and the wall height approximately up
3.6 foot. So that is the first part of this
variance application is this area.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Excuse me,
Ms. Steelman. Will you still have the shed
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
roof height of the shed roof aspect of it,
meaning the visual aspect of it from the
street will be the same,
3 feet?
MS. STEELMAN: Yes.
gable.
it'll just be raised
Its actually still a
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MS. STEELMAN: You can see it on the
elevations that are in my drawings and what I
tried to show you (inaudible) existing
elevation (inaudible) --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MS. STEELMAN: -- and it shows the
relation to the adjacent building (inaudible)
height. Through all that I've shown what we
are doing in terms of raising that wall height
and the ridge height.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MS. STEELMAN: I think that gives you a
fairly good comparison with that. So the --
on those exterior, elevations we then have
redesigned the (inaudible) the (inaudible)
vents removed, increased 3-1/2 feet. We tried
to work with the existing dining room to do
some redesign of the window area but that roof
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and that area stays the same and then created
a cross gable at the bar area to work with the
dining room gable. As a result, we are
increasing the nonconformity in that area.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Could we --
MS. STEELMAN: If there are questions on
that part 1 of this --
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: So the footprint
remains the same, you're just going up because
of structural reasons and for repairs?
MS. STEELMAN: Correct. Correct. The
footprint remains the same, we're not
increasing any of the dining room capacity or
bar area.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Maybe I missed it, I'm
not sure, but what are you going to gain from
this? What do you gain from going up 3 foot?
What is --
MS. STEELMAN: Actually, we're gaining
two things. One is when you're on the upper
bar area the (inaudible) head heights are so
low now at 7.2 that we need additional light
and air into the bar area and now that we've
removed some of the boats on the adjacent
parcel, we can see a lot more of the water.
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So that's partly the reason. The other reason
is that they feel at this point in their
lives, Diane and Dennis, that a new look for
Legends is appropriate and (inaudible) to
freshen things up in the dining room.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay, so I mean you're
not gaining any seats or --
MS. STEELMAN: No, no. We're not gaining
any seats and also resolving some of the
structure problems.
MEMBER DINIZIO: All right, which is this
building out of (inaudible).
MS. STEELMAN: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Thank you.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Well, just to
reiterate, the main concern is some structural
and at the same time while you're doing those
repairs you're going to do some modernization
with better lighting and --
MS. STEELMAN: Correct. Correct, that's
exactly right.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay. That's that
part.
MS. STEELMAN: That's that part. Okay,
now part 2 --
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Wait a
minute we have another question.
MEMBER HORNING: Could you just walk us
through the lot coverage situation here? You
cited 62.8 is your request, 40 percent is
allowed currently.
MS. STEELMAN: Correct.
MEMBER HORNING: And on the Corwin survey
it's showing a total of 85.5 which includes
concrete slabs, decks, etc. Tell us a little
bit about that, the 85.5 in contrast to the
62.8 and the 40 percent that you're allowed.
MS. STEELMAN: (Not at microphone.)
that includes also those concrete
(Inaudible)
slabs.
MEMBER DINIZIO: 5.7 percent.
MS. STEELMAN: Yeah and according to the
Building Department those slabs are not --
concrete slabs on grade are not considered
part of the lot coverage. So removing the
concrete slabs and removing two of the walk-in
boxes and there's -- well, there's one walk-in
box we're removing and we're removing one
frame shed and as a result of that we are --
and we are also removing all of the wood
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decking, which is considered a part of that
lot coverage. We are removing all of that and
you'll see that if you do a before on the
survey and then my site plan shows now we're
doing areas of gravel and concrete slabs and
removing a walk-in box and shed that we've now
been able to bring our lot coverage down to
62.8 percent.
MEMBER HORNING: You feel that these
figures are accurate?
MS. STEELMAN: Yes. Yes, we do
(inaudible).
MEMBER HORNING: Okay.
MS. STEELMAN: Originally it was at 79.8,
which is different than the survey shows only
because we've (inaudible) so now we're at
62.8.
MEMBER HORNING: Okay. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Nancy,
could you just come up here one second?
MS. STEELMAN: Sure.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I need to
number these boxes just so you're aware of the
fact that if, for any reason this Board has a
particular problem with lot coverage, okay --
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MS. STEELMAN: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: -- in the
deliberation aspect that I'm sure you would
much rather have boxes removed than you would
physical plan. Okay, so the proposed one is
proposed on here so that's good. So I'm going
to go with the one right next to it, I'm going
to call that box #1.
MS. STEELMAN: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It's going
to be relocated. I'm going to call this one
box #2, okay, which is going to be relocated.
I'm going to call the walk-in box #3, which is
going to be relocated, and I'm going to call
this one down here #4, which is going to be
relocated, and then I'm going to call the
frame shed, which is also going to be
relocated, okay, as #5.
MS. STEELMAN: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay. So I
just wanted you to be aware that the generator
-- is that calculated in it? It's probably, I
would
MS. STEELMAN: (Inaudible) not.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It's
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probably not. Okay.
MS. STEELMAN: It's not.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, so I
just wanted you to be aware of that situation,
that may or may not happen, okay, but as long
as we --
MS. STEELMAN: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And the
proposed shed is already indicated, which
would normally be #6. I guess we'll just put
a number on it as 6, just so you --
MS. STEELMAN: No, this is -- it's
actually considered the -- it's not a shed.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Oh, that's
part of principal building.
MS. STEELMAN: It's not a shed.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MS. STEELMAN: It is built now.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: All right.
MS. STEELMAN: It is part of principal
building.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MS. STEELMAN: And that's the next, part
2 of --
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, so
should we
continue to call that #6 then?
MS. STEELMAN: No because it's not
freestanding. It is attached to the building,
it is part of the principal building.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, so
I'll cross it out.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: What's that, Jerry?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That is the
most left hand side of the application.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: That one there?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right, of
the survey of the building design.
MS. STEELMAN: And also this is also as
built.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right. As
built, right, we've seen all that.
MS. STEELMAN: Okay. Then the other way
to reference this is also on the floor plan
there are -- it's more specific in that area.
It's showing the actual use and function
(inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right and
during the field visit, okay, it was stressed
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by the owners how important these are and in
no way do I want them to believe that there's
any removal of these at this particular point.
I'm just talking about it from a deliberation
standpoint. Sometimes it's a little difficult
to visualize it in its present form, okay, and
that's the only reason why I asked for that.
MS. STEELMAN: I'll address part 2 which
now has been at least addressed in terms of
lot coverage. I think now you understand how
we've been able to bring some of that down and
that we have tried very hard to do without
removing too much of what they really need in
terms of the function of the restaurant and
kitchen to bring down the lot coverage.
The walk-in boxes over time have been
placed in a variety of different locations on
the site and as we started to analyze this we
found that there were several issues here
primarily that three of the walk-in boxes were
over the property line onto the adjacent
property, which just happens to be owned by my
clients, Diane and Dennis. So we knew that we
needed to remove those, we needed to bring
them back onto the site so that the new design
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on our site plan that we're now showing
removes them from the property, off the
property line that were on the adjacent
property, tries to bring them away from the
accessory setback structures, 3 feet off that
rear property line. Bring them into the site,
attach them to the main part of the building,
not physically attach them, but locate them
adjacent to the existing building, and have
created instead of decking, we've now created
a circulation path for exit, which is now
exiting from that as-built storage area and
that far corner; it's also an exit from the
kitchen.
So we've allowed for exiting directly at
the same level throughout, instead of back up
a set of steps to the upper section. We have
also tried to locate the walk-in boxes to
respect the sanitary system, which is in that
upper area where the frame shed is generally
located is all their sanitary system. We are
gravelling that whole area so we are held by
that in terms of any location -- any area
where we could locate the walk-in boxes.
We've tried to remove them from the rear
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property line, but we acknowledge that they
are in the side yard. There is approximately
6.4 feet remaining of rear yard, which was
impossible to try to get them out of the side
yard into that rear yard (inaudible) area.
This was our best approach to this and we're
trying to just reorganize it and make it work
better for everyone.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No questions right
now.
MEMBER HORNING: No, sir.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: One of the
main concerns in the past, Ms. Steelman, has
been that some of the -- if there are any in
the public who haven't actually seen the plans
and that is the reason why I numbered those
boxes, okay.
MS. STEELMAN: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Is there
anybody in the public that would like to
speak, but prior to
the plan?
Okay, we don't
MS. STEELMAN:
speaking would like to see
see --
I have a letter from their
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
neighbor that I'd like to --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
Sure.
BOARD SECRETARY: Thanks.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Is there
anybody in the public that would like to speak
for or against this application?
Seeing no hands, okay -- are there any
additional questions that the Board may have?
Without rushing you, Ken, do you have
anything else?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No, no.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Anything
else you'd like to say?
MS. STEELMAN: I think the last point
that we'd really like to make is that I
believe that with our new (inaudible) with
both the front facade and also for the rear
portion of the property that my clients are
really trying to make some serious
improvements to their property and hopefully
you're accept that and see that.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We thank
you for your presentation, Ms. Steelman.
Hearing no further comment, I'll make a
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motion closing the hearing and reserving
decision until later.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I'll second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6397 - Maritime Day School
(H&S Assoc. Realty, LLC.)
MEMBER DINIZIO:
~Request for Special Exception per Code
Section 280-13B(4), the applicant is
requesting permission to convert existing
office space to operate a nursery school at:
31095 Route 25, Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-102-2-
24.1."
MR. PASCA: Anthony Pasca, Esseks, Hefter
and Angel, 108 East Main Street, for the
applicants.
This is, as you said, a special permit
request, in practical terms it's a request to
transfer special permit, although there is no
such thing, but two years ago we were before
you and requested a special permit for a site
a half mile down the road when they were
opening up at the time and they've already
outgrown the space just a little bit and so
they've bought a new space and that's what
this special permit request is for.
We've gone through all the special permit
criteria on our application. I don't know
that it would be too productive to, you know,
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go through it with you unless you have
questions on it, but you know the co-directors
of the school are here and a representative of
the landlord is also here to answer questions,
if you have any. I'll leave it to you if
there's anything that needs to be addressed.
MEMBER DINIZIO: It appears to me that,
you know, you're just moving the school.
You're (inaudible) more children to your
business. I mean you feel that you have
inadequate parking and it looks like people
would be able to drop off staggering a little
bit so that seems to be
out.
were
-- I hope that works
MR. PASCA: Yeah. Well, two years ago we
sort of predicting how things would go,
we hadn't opened yet. Now, we've got two
years of a track record and things have worked
out so, you know, we're very comfortable with
the plan, how it's been set up and the
Planning Board looked at it.
MEMBER DINIZIO: My concern would be
about this dropping off thing. It looks like
you'd start at 8:45, but you don't start until
9:10.
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MR. PASCA: Yeah, 9:10,
staggered a little bit.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah.
that's why it's
(Inaudible) --
MR. PASCA: Some of the parents come
earlier, some a little later so it works out
that way.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, I mean is it
something that works is what I'm -- I mean you
already have the business so --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Would you
state your name for the record, please?
MS. BURNS: Amy Burns.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: How are
you?
MS. BURNS: I'm one of the co-directors.
We've staggered the parking because at the
time we were sharing the parking lot with
Synchronicity, so that was our concern. Since
now the building is entirely ours, we're still
going to give parents an option of that half
hour to drop off and still ensure the safety
of the children.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
just, you know, cause
In reading this I was
I know you can't say you
be here at 8:22, you be here at -- I mean does
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it work out?
MS. BURNS: It works great.
MEMBER DINIZIO: It's working. Yeah?
MS. BURNS: Because we do have parents
that drop their kids off early and some
parents that will drop their children off a
little later.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay. That's what I
looking for.
MS. BURNS: Yeah, we don't have like a
huge entrance where there are 25 cars at one
time. It doesn't happen.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No buses, naturally.
MS. BURNS: No buses.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Your special events,
was
what do they entail?
MS. BURNS: A special event might be just
like an open house or the grand opening,
something like that that is -- that pertains
to our families. It is not -- we will have
open houses for the public, but generally it's
just for interested parties.
MEMBER DINIZIO: These are not rock
concerts?
MS. BURNS: No rock concerts or anything
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like that.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay, just to be clear.
MS. BURNS: No carnivals.
all
MEMBER DINIZIO:
I have.
MS. BURNS: Okay.
when I went to
to put a fence
MS. BURNS:
beautiful.
Okay, thank you. That's
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The only
question I have, which was answered last week
auto parts was, are they going
around that playground area?
(Inaudible) was and it's very
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Very
tastefully done.
MS. BURNS: It's beautiful.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No questions.
MEMBER HORNING: I have no questions.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No
questions, okay.
MS. BURNS: Okay. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Anything
else, Mr. Pasca?
MR. PASCA: No, not from me.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay --
MR. PASCA: The only thing, just to --
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I'm not trying to be presumptuous or anything,
but whatever you can do to make it a
relatively quick decision cause the school
year is supposed to start after Labor Day.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah.
MR. PASCA: I know you have 62 days,
technically, you know, so I'm just encouraging
you if you could issue a decision in August if
at all possible.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It should
be issued on August 18th, okay.
MR. PASCA: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And we
should vote on it, excuse me, on August 18th.
I know we have to type it first then it has to
be processed and then it has to go to the Town
Clerk and so, you know, we're looking probably
at the 25tn or 26tn maybe.
MR. PASCA: Okay. That's fine. I'm just
saying whatever you can do I'd appreciate it.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The school
is not open now, is that right?
MR. PASCA: No, it's not. It only runs
for the school year.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Very good.
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Do you see any problem with that?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, it's written
already.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It's
written already, okay, good.
MR. PASCA: Okay, thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
Anybody else like to speak for or against? I
have to ask that question anyway. I know
you're all fors.
MR. PASCA: I hope so.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Hearing no
further comment -- oh, wait a minute, somebody
raised their hand back there. No hands?
Okay.
Hearing no comment, I'll make a motion
closing the hearing,
later.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
reserving decision until
Second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6388 - Regina's Garden LLC
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: In
parentheses it's the Harbes Family. I see no
one from the Harbes Family presently here. I
guess we will read the legal notice and then
hold it in abeyance.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
"Request for Variance from Code Sections
280-13 and 280-14, based on an application for
building permit to operate a farm office in a
nonconforming building, and the Building
Inspector's March 10, 2010, Notice of
Disapproval stating that the proposed use on
this parcel in the AC zone is not permitted
and exceeds the code permitted number of uses
per the Bulk schedule at 1150 Sound Ave.,
Mattituck. SCTM#1000-120-3-5."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Seeing that
no one is present from the Harbes Family, I'm
going to ask the clerk of the Board to write
them a letter and I'm going to make the
recommendation that we put it on the September
calendar -- can I just have a date for that,
Vicki?
BOARD SECRETARY: You sure can.
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: For 1:00,
1:15, or 1:30.
BOARD SECRETARY: September 23.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, the
23rd at 1 p.m.?
BOARD SECRETARY: Sure.
MEMBER HORNING: It has to go on notice
to adjacent neighbors.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And they
will complete in the letter the proper
noticing and posting of the signs prior to
that particular hearing. I offer that as a
resolution.
MEMBER HORNING: I'll second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6402 - Michael and
Carolee Levison
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
~Request for Variance from Code Sections
280-116B, based on an application for building
permit and the Building Inspector's April 8,
2010, Notice of Disapproval concerning
additions to an exiting dwelling, at: less
than the code required setback to a bulkhead
of 74 feet at: 1025 Albacore Dr. and Blue
Marlin Dr., (adj. to canal leading to Southold
Bay) Greenport. SCTM#1000-57-1-14."
Mr. Herrmann, could you give us your
appearance, please?
MR. HERRMANN: Rob Herrmann of En
Consultants, 1319 North Sea Road in
Southampton for the applicants, Michael and
Carolee Levison. Good morning.
I'm going to hand up, to start, a revised
survey and floor plan and I'll go over with
you initially what the changes are
(inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MR. HERRMANN: I'll ask you to turn your
attention to the survey first there is a
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
couple of reasons for the revised map. The
first does not affect the relief that's being
requested, but I wanted to make sure it's
accurate for the record. The area data on the
right hand side of the page, the surveyor had
accidentally omitted the garage area when he
calculated the existing house. In other
words, for the purposes of lot coverage,
obviously, I show the entire structural
footprint that's covered and so through an
error when they were looking at the area of
the house itself with respect to the 2000
square feet, I think it's 2000-and-change, the
garage was omitted. So the correct area for
the existing house footprint as now shown on
this map (inaudible) last dated July 27, 2010
should be 2,525 square feet for an existing
lot coverage percent of 11.48 percent.
The other change relates to the layout of
what is being proposed and I apologize for
starting off a variance hearing with a change,
but as the Levisons continued to look at what
they were proposing to do they found that what
they were proposing to do was not really what
would be the most ideal layout for the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
addition. So I'll backtrack for a second.
The purpose of the addition on the waterside
or the bulkhead side of the house is basically
a renovation of their master bedroom and the
addition of a master bath and walk-in closet.
The setback for which relief is required from
the nearest corner of the bulkhead was 58
feet. That number in essence does not change
with what we are proposing or asking the Board
to consider now.
we increased the
Essentially it's
It's 58.5 feet so arguably
setback by 6 inches.
the same.
What I handed up with the survey was a
revised floor plan, primary floor plan by
James Richter, and if you compare this with
the floor plan that was submitted with the
original application you'll find that
originally the master bath addition was
actually shown at the seaward facade of the
house. So rather than the bedroom fronting
the water, the bathroom would have been
fronting the water and then there was a deck
proposed on the waterside of that.
So again, after further consideration by
the Levisons, as to how that would layout they
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
realized that would really not make the most
sense. So the floor plan has now been
rearranged such that the master bedroom can be
shifted logically to the waterside of the
building with the,
closet renovation,
of the house back.
are asking
at 58 feet.
more. The
in effect, master bath,
and addition being inside
Again the setback that we
for relief is essentially unchanged
The area is about 17 square feet
-- with the elimination of the deck
on the waterside of the addition that put --
that slightly encroaches the bulkhead, with
the elimination and reconfiguration of that
deck and then the addition of the 2 feet,
guess I should point out that's the
difference, we were proposing to go out 10
feet with the addition and this would amount
to 12.
So whereas previously the addition would
have been 177 square feet, it is now 212,
which is an additional 35 square feet, but
again it allows the bedroom to be set on the
water side and the deck had previously been
proposed at 186 square feet, it is now being
proposed at 168 which is 18 square feet less
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
for that addition at about 17 square feet.
So although the configuration is
different from what you had been reviewing,
the overall affect of the project, we would
hold anyway, is essentially the same. Because
this is a renovation and expansion of the
Levison's master bedroom, which is on the
water side, there really is no alternative
feasible location to do the renovation because
that's where it is and obviously that's where
they would like it to continue to be on the
canal side.
It's a bit of a quirky variance because
the extension of the house, as you might view
it from the canal, is actually -- does not
encroach as far seaward as does the existing
side, the west side of the house, but because
of the way the canal angled here the bulkhead
actually encroaches in on the property on the
east side. So again although as the crow
flies it is really no closer to the water, it
is in fact closer to the bulkhead on that
corner of the property and therefore closer to
the water because of the angle of the
bulkhead. The existing setback of the house
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
is 64 feet at it's minimum point and so we
would be encroaching again at about 5-1/2 feet
or almost 6 feet further on that. Because of
that situation of the house relative to the
bulkhead, there is no way we could undertake
this addition without the Board's relief
because that is again where the house is
situated relative to the water. We would
argue, however, that this addition would not
change the character really even of the
property because of its small size and the
fact that it does not extend out as far as the
west end of the house, but also to the
neighborhood.
I did hand up to Vicki an aerial. You
can see there this shoreline is characterized
by homes that are set some 75 feet from the
bulkhead including a couple at least one home
that's set much, much closer to the water. So
we would suggest that this small addition
would not have any adverse impact to the
overall character of this developed shoreline
or to the neighbors or to this property and
again because of the location of the dwelling
relative to the existing bulkhead and the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
location of the existing bedroom there really
is no alternative location for what they're
doing. So it's either this or nothing really
with respect to the renovation.
with respect to the project's impact on
the environment, because of it being a
bulkheaded canal, and the bulkhead being there
since prior to 1977, there is a tidal wetlands
letter of non-jurisdiction that was issued by
the state DEC which should be in your file and
the Town Trustees issued a permit for the
project as originally designed which would
also be in your file. Pending this Board's
review and hopeful approval, by request we
would have to go back to the Trustees to amend
their approval to change this layout of the
footprint, but again since the area is
essentially the same, the setback is the same,
we don't expect that the Trustees would have
an objection to the change in the floor plan.
As mitigation to the project, we did
incorporate with our wetlands permit, of
course, the addition of a drywell that is
suited to collect and recharge runoff as
required by Town Code and also proposed to
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
establish a 10-foot wide non-turf buffer on
the landward side of the bulkhead. So that is
an area that would eliminate about 1000 square
feet of what has been historically maintained
as fertilized lawn and so actually we're
proposing a buffer that's roughly three times
the size of additional square footage that
we're introducing to the property as far as
structural area and again even with the
changes and with the correction to the survey,
the total structural footprint of the lot at
the end of this project would be 2,905 square
feet or 13.2 percent lot coverage. So the
Levisons would continue to remain well, well
under the lot coverage allowance.
So with those considerations we would ask
for the Board's granting of the relief
requested. If you have any questions, the
Levisons are also here and we'll be happy to
answer any questions that you may have.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The Notice
of Disapproval indicates 58.5, you see no
problem, if the Board was so inclined to grant
it at its closest point of 64, which in
reality is what the house was or is, which is
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
an increase of 6 or 7 square feet?
MR. HERRMAi~-N: You lost me there.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well, on
the Corwin subdivision survey of October 14,
2008 I'm seeing a setback at its closest point
to the house at 64 feet.
MR. HERRNLANN: Of the existing house.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: My point --
yeah, the existing house.
MR. HERRMANN: Right.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That was
not the survey that I suspect the Notice of
Disapproval came out of, it came out of the
most recent survey, okay --
MR. HERRMANN: It came out of the
proposal showing the 58-foot setback.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It came out
of the 58 one which was the date of --
BOARD SECRETARY: March 31.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: -- March
31.
MR. HERRMANN: That's correct. Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Ail right,
so the Notice of Disapproval at its closest
point at this particular point for the nature
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
of this application it's 61.7 --
BOARD SECRETARY: No.
MR. HERRMANN: No.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No?
BOARD SECRETARY: That's the one he just
gave us.
MR. HERRMANN: The shortest distance from
the nearest front of the bulkhead to the
nearest front of the addition is --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Oh, the
shortest, okay, you're right.
MR. HERRMANN: -- 58-1/2 --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: 58.5, so
nothing changed. Okay, so nothing is changed.
I was looking at the wrong survey, I
apologize.
MR. HERRMANN:
think the original
Yeah, and I apologize I
survey was I think showing
us at 58 feet because as I say with this
change that we introduced to you today, it's a
6-inch improvement over what the notice is,
but again it's within a half a foot.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure. Very
good. I'm glad that was cleared up, I
apologize for that.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
Ail
questions.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You know,
is confusing if you think about
know that has to be -- 6 inches
right, I don't have any particular
sometimes it
zoning and you
is better, you
know, I was looking at that myself going well
we'll have to readvertise this, but it's not
the case it's less.
MR. HERRMANN: No.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I mean the one-story
addition is kind of minor and, you know,
what's it going to be used for?
MR. HERRMANN: This again is for the --
really for a new master bedroom that will
allow for the -- basically renovation of the
bedroom, but it will allow for the increase or
I should say the introduction of a master bath
and walk-in closet. The Levisons' closet at
the moment is in the garage. So they'd like
to move it inside with the rest of the house.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I have no comments or
questions.
MEMBER HORNING: Just a couple of
clarifications. This small circle on the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
Corwin survey, is that the runoff drywell that
you're referring to?
MR. HERRMAI~N: Yes, that's correct. That
is the drywell and if you look on the right
hand side of the easterly property line
there's a drainage system calculation there of
a drywell that's being added based on the
additional root coverage.
MEMBER HORNING: Okay, yeah, I didn't see
that symbol. I was curious, on the deck
towards the living room of the house, you have
this little note here is there a concrete step
on top of the wood deck or how is that --
MR. HERRMkBTN: That's an existing
concrete step. I would think you would take
that out.
UNIDENTIFIED: ((Inaudible)). (Audience
member speaking to Mr. Herrmann.)
MEMBER HORNING: So the step disappears,
basically?
MR. HERRMANN: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: Okay.
MR. HERRMANN: The sliders would now
empty out onto the deck.
MR. LEVISON: We'd probably leave it and
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
the proposed deck on the plans would go over
the top.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That was
Mr. Levison speaking.
Okay, anybody else in the audience who
would like to speak for or against this
application? Sir?
I just need you to use that, I apologize.
MR. BEAUGARD: My name is Ed Beaugard. I
live directly across the canal and I think the
addition would be perfect.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Would you
spell your last name for us, please?
MR. BEAUGARD: B-E-A-U-G-A-R-D.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MR. BEAUGARD: I have no objection. I
think it would be an improvement to the whole
neighborhood.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
Anyone else?
Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion
closing the hearing,
later.
MEMBER HORNING:
reserving decision until
Second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6400 - Gillian Francis and
Sarah Salm
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
~Request for Variance from Code Sections
280-122A and 280-124, based on an application
for building permit and the Building
Inspector's April 16, 2010, Notice of
Disapproval concerning additions and
alterations to an existing dwelling, 1)
proposed additions are not permitted, it shall
create a new nonconformance or increase the
degree of nonconformance (Pursuant to Walz
(5039) interpretation such renovations and
additions will constitute an increase in the
degree of nonconformance, 2) less than the
code required side yard setback of 10 feet at:
830 Wilmarth Ave., Greenport. SCTM#1000-41-1-
18."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Who would
like to be heard?
MS. FRANCIS:
that's Sarah Salm.
do?
You're friends.
I'm Gillian Francis and
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: How do you
MEMBER HORNING: Hi.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Just state
your name for the record again so that we have
it for the recorder.
MS. FRkNCIS: Okay, Gillian Francis and
Sarah Salm is here as well.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Wonderful.
MS. FRAi~CIS: And I have an additional
receipt.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We'll take
it, thank you.
BOARD SECRETARY: We're still missing two
more.
MS. FRANCIS: In terms of the two more
that we're missing I did contact one of them
several times on the telephone, but she hasn't
answered. She could have been away and the
other person it's care of a couple and so the
Post Office had it redelivered.
BOARD SECRETARY: Okay.
receive them, you could just
our office.
MS. FRANCIS: Ail right,
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay.
If and when you
send them into
I'll do that.
Looking at the
floor plan here it looks like you're going to
use the existing foundation?
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MS. FR3~NCIS: Yes,
footprint, yes.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
the existing
And it looks like
there may be a little needed foundation added
to it?
MS. FRANCIS: Um --
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
off is that correct?
MS. FRANCIS: Um,
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
MS. FRANCIS: Yes.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
Is there a squaring
I guess so, yes.
You guess so.
Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Could it
may be cantilevers?
MS. FR3~NCIS: You know, I'm not 100
percent sure how the architect's going to do
it. We have an architect and she's going to
draw up the plans, you know, the actual plans
once it's -- in greater detail once it's,
well, if this plan is approved.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
an existing concrete.
MS. FPg~NCIS: We do have an existing
concrete, I don't know that we need to add to
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
that.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It looks
like cantilevers to me.
MS. FRANCIS: On the other part of it.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yeah, the bay window
looks like it's cantilevered.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: But there's a little
addition along that 8-foot wall there --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: -- that I'm just
curious of how that's going to be --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I don't
know what the consistency of that addition
looks like, so --
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Is there any basement
area underneath this existing sunroom?
MS. FRANCIS: Yes.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: There is a basement
under there?
MS. FP~2qCIS: No.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No.
MS. FRANCIS: The sunroom is sitting on a
concrete slab, there's no basement under that
part. The original house was just an old
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
square box and there's a basement under there.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Right.
MS. FPJ~NCIS: The part that's being
brought out to the 16 square feet they will
have to lay down that foundation for that
cause at the moment that's just whatever,
sand, or whatever is under there. So that has
to be expanded to cover those 16 square feet.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay, so that sunroom
is going to be removed in its entirety along
with that concrete slab and a foundation is
going to be put in.
MS. FRANCIS: My understanding is that
the architect is just going to build on that
concrete slab. She's not going to change that
necessarily.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Oh.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I wouldn't say that.
MS. FRANCIS: You wouldn't say that.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, you need to go down
3 feet. Yeah, that used to be a porch back
there and it's slanted away from the house and
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: It doesn't make too much
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
difference in our decision, but honestly I --
you're probably going to end up having to put
something in there that's really more
substantial.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: with the plumbing
involved and everything --
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah. I'm familiar with
it, I grew up in this area. I'm familiar with
the house.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: First of
all, I need your appearance. Just tell us who
you are.
MS. SALM: I'm sorry, I'm Sarah Salm.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: All right.
Sometimes we get so involved in the hearing we
forget about these things. Okay. Could you
just ask Ms. Thompson, please, to tell us how
that's going to be constructed so that we can
have that within the next two weeks?
MS. SALM: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
have the whole thing buttoned up
MS. FRANCIS: Could
So we'll
so to speak.
I call her now or is
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No, she can
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
give us something in writing along with
whatever foundation plan that she has so that
we have it in the file. Okay?
MS. FRANCIS: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Cause Mr.
Dinizio is absolutely correct. If it's not 3
feet down, it's not
MEMBER DINIZIO:
Absolutely.
going to meet code.
No, that's correct.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Looks like you want to
maintain the same side yard setback. I'll
just ask the issue while they're here.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Okay, I have no
further questions.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, thank
you.
MEMBER HORNING:
MEMBER DINIZIO:
questions.
I'm all set.
I don't have any
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay,
before you nice ladies leave, let's see if
anybody else has any.
Is there anybody else would like to speak
for or against this application?
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
Seeing no hands, I'll make a motion
closing the hearing and reserve decision
pending that information from your architect.
MS. FR3~NCIS: Good.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We thank
you for coming in for the presentation.
MS. FPg~NCIS: Thank you very much.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Anybody
want to second it?
MEMBER DINIZIO: I will.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6393 - Harriet McNamara
(McNamara Family Trust)
MEMBER HORNING:
"Request for Variance from Code Sections
280-122A and 280-124, based on an application
for building permit and the Building
Inspector's March 18, 2010 Notice of
Disapproval, concerning additions to one of
two existing seasonal dwellings, 1) proposed
addition is not permitted, it shall create a
new nonconformance or increase the degree of
nonconformance, 2) lot coverage at more than
the code required maximum of 20%, at:
Peninsula Rd., (adj. to Darbies Cove) Fishers
Island. SCTM#1000-10-4-12.3."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Who would
like to be heard on this?
MRS. McNAMARA: I'm Harriet McNamara.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, are
you aware, Mrs. McNamara, of the new Notice of
Disapproval that was just issued on July 20,
20107
MRS. McNAMARA: No.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We can give
you a copy of it.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MRS. McNAMARA: No, I don't have --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: For the
shed. Okay, so in the interim we'll take
testimony and then we'll ask our wonderful
clerk to give us a couple of copies of that.
Okay.
We are here and George would you like to
ask questions?
MEMBER HORNING: Well, tell us about your
project, your proposed project variance.
MRS. McNAMARA: I know that you've had
many people before you from Fishers Island and
it's a very special place. I have been on
Fishers Island my whole life in Darbies Cove.
My parents bought it, my father and
grandfather, in 1951 so we've had the three
cottages. My family has expanded, the three
children are married. We have a
granddaughter, but we started considering
expanding the house about a few years ago. We
have the last few years been caretakers for
our parents of which we only have my mother-
in-law left and she's close to 88. She's of
sound mind, feisty person, but health issues
have forced her -- we have her back in her own
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
home, but she's broken various bones and
whatever, and so she cannot be left alone.
She lives in East Northport, we live in East
Northport, we have her back in her own home,
but we've always gone to Fishers Island for
the two months during the summertime. My
husband and I are in education so we're able
to have the July and August.
So we were thinking about how can we have
our goal, which is really to keep mom out of
nursing homes and part of the family. So we
thought that this is actually the least amount
of impact on Darbies Cove and on Fishers that
we would extend the house parallel to the
water 8 feet. This would allow a seating area
that is 14 by 10 to become 8 feet larger and
we'd be able to fit in a couch and when mom
was there and we hope to keep her up there
most of the summer cause I know we do a lot of
commuting that she -- she has to be on the
first floor, she uses a walker and cannot do
stairs. We only have one (inaudible) that's
on our first level. So she'd be able to spend
time with us that way.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Can we call
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
this, Mrs. McNamara, the main house?
MRS. McN~ARA: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: This is the
main house you're referring to. Okay.
MRS. McNAMARA: The main house.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I just
wanted to differentiate between that and the
other one.
MRS. McNAMARA: Okay, yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
Continue.
MRS. McNAMAP~A: The porch is again 8 feet
out, it would replace a deck that goes out 16
feet so naturally it's just about 8 feet from
the house. So for all the wonderful reasons
you would have a porch it would be nice, but
part of the reason too is that my husband and
I also have had health issues and taken some
things that stay out of the sun. The summer
was an example of trying to find shade and so
it would be not necessarily a necessary
addition, but certainly a useful addition for
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: What is the
next -- before we go back to the hearing,
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
we're missing some mailings from you.
MRS. McNAMARA: Yes. We're missing
(Inaudible) he owns the road behind us. I
sent a certified letter to his home address in
(Inaudible) Connecticut. I sent just by Post
Office to Fishers Island box number address.
He commutes a lot by boat so I know that he's
been home, but we left Fishers Island this
past Monday, so as of Monday we have not
gotten the green card back. (Inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: What about
the -- there's two?
BOARD SECRETARY: Just the one.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Just the
one, okay.
Would you want to continue, George, or
you want me to continue?
I just wanted to know -- let's talk about
the other house on the property. What do you
want to do there?
MRS. McNAMARA: Nothing.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Nothing,
okay. The issue in particular is are there C
of 0 on both of these houses?
MRS. McNAMARA: Yes.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: There are
and can we get copies of those C of O?
MRS. McNAMARA: I would imagine there are
-- Are they not in the --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We don't
have them in the file, can you furnish us with
those?
MRS. McNAMARA: We have a CO on our
house.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: On your
house.
MRS. McNAMARA: The other house on the
lot is owned by my brother.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Oh, I see.
MRS. McNAMARA: So I don't know -- that
house has not changed in years so I'm sure
they have all the stuff that they're supposed
to have.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: You need to
come up and just use the microphone.
MR. McNAMAHA: Hi, I'm Terry McNamara,
I'm Harriet's husband.
I have -- we did an addition I guess way
before. I have the CO and all the
underwriting and everything for that, but the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
original homes that we have were all with the
father and I don't recall us having any of
those documents.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well, let
me just make a suggestion to you, if George
doesn't mind, it would make sense to get a
pre-CO for the entire property meaning both
houses so that you have them so that we don't
run into these situations when you want to put
an addition on. This is not a stalling
tactic, this is just something that we suggest
to you. We've had applications before over
the years and we realize that it's a
relatively small area in reference to building
size, meaning lot size not building area as
related to lot size, but that would be my
suggestion.
Pull out your CO see what it covers,
okay. The next time the Building Inspector
comes over, make an application for a pre-CO
if it was, as you indicated, it was probably
built before zoning, so that we can go from
there at this particular point.
The only other issue is that you really
need to answer this letter of Mr. Collins that
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
we had received, which you're aware of.
MRS. McNAMARA: Yes, we read it.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: You can do
it either verbally or you can do it in
writing. It's kind of lengthy, you might want
to do that in writing, okay, so that we
understand exactly where you're coming from
based upon where he's coming from.
MR. McNAMARA: It's very difficult to
ascertain. You know, I didn't understand most
of what he said.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, well
that
MR. McNAMARA: Just, you know,
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
I realize
-- if
conceivably there is no septic system going to
be changed or whatever the case might be, then
you indicate that in the letter, okay, so we
have that information in the file, but one of
the --
MEMBER HORNING: I have my car windows --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Please, go
close them.
MEMBER HORNING: Yes, I'll be right back.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: At this
particular point it's very important that --
he has his car windows open, you do too?
(11:55, Member Horning left at this point
to close his windows and returned at 12:00.)
MR. McNAMARA: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: So, while
you're here, go to the Building Department and
-- are you familiar with where the Building
Department is? It's not here anymore, it's in
the bank.
MRS. McNAMARA: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
application for the CO,
option on the CO.
MRS. McNAMARA:
coming over August
And get the
know Tom (Inaudible) is
to Fishers Island and
I'm not sure (inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right. It
would behoove you to have this all updated so
that we know exactly what's legal, what's pre-
existing, okay?
MRS. McNAMARA: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And then we
can continue the hearing and your husband's
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
brother should be doing the same exact thing.
MRS. McNAMAP~: My brother.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Your
brother, excuse me. I apologize. Should be
doing the same exact thing or you can do it
for him if he authorizes for you to do so.
MRS. McNAMARA: Right.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And we
start out from square one and we know where
we're going at that particular point and we'll
reconvene the hearing in September and have
everthing done so we know where we're going.
MRS. McNAMARA: All right, so we will go
over and get a pre-CO for both houses.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: For both
houses.
MR. McNAMARA: It's all one lot.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It's on one
lot.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
for the lot.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
be A-house and B-house.
You have to get a pre-CO
But it may
MEMBER DINIZIO: It might be a good time
now cause the Building Inspector will be there
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
in August.
MRS. McNAMARA: In August.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah, so
that will work out well.
What we just discussed Mr. McNamara with
your wife was to get the pre-CO applications,
apply for them, so that when they come over in
August they can do a quick review of the
houses and so we have everything done. You
can show them at that point the paperwork that
you have when you put the addition onto the
house and then we'll reconvene this hearing in
September and then deal with the addition as
you are so inclined to want to deal with it.
MRS. McNAMARA: All right and you would
like a written statement, a rebuttal or --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: At least
clear the issues up and anything that you --
MR. McNAMARA: Should we send it to our
neighbor?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Pardon me?
MR. McNAMARA: Should we send it to our
neighbor?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No, you
would normally send it here and then we'll
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
forward it.
MR. McNAMARA: Should we include the shed
in that?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yes, sure.
MR. McNAMAP~A: The fact, I guess --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Anything
that's included in his letter, anything that -
MR. McNAMARA: It's not included in his
letter.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No, no, but
anything that if it's not included in his
letter -- cause I read the letter but I just
can't remember everything at this point.
MRS. McNAMARA: All right.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Anything
that's in the letter that you can clear up for
him would be greatly appreciated by us so that
we would understand.
MEMBER HORNING: Jerry, are we
incorporating the as-built shed now --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yes. It
gets incorporated and that has to be looked at
by the Building Inspector also.
MR. McNAMARA: It gets incorporated.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Ail right,
so everything is perfect at that particular
point and then we can go further with the
hearing from that particular point.
MRS. McNAMARA: Oh. Thank you very much.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay,
you're welcome.
There is no one here from Fishers Island
to discuss this, right?
Do you have questions?
MEMBER HORNING: Yeah.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Wait,
George has a couple of more questions.
MEMBER HORNING: Sure, while we're here.
Terry, just for clarification,
and 68 are owned by who?
MRS. McNAMARA: Well, they're actually
jointly owned --
the lot 67
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
go ahead. Sorry.
MEMBER HORNING: Ail right, we were
inquiring about the ownership of the lot.
MR. McNAMARA: The land is one-third
each, but the main house as you say is ours,
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Ail right,
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
is Harriet's, and Karen and Tom share the
other house.
MEMBER HORNING: And the lot line between
lot 67 and 68 is going right through your
house (inaudible)?
MR. McNAMARA: It's historical no more
than that. It's a single parcel now.
MEMBER HORNING: So it's taxed as one
parcel?
MR. McNAMARA: Taxed as one parcel.
MEMBER HORNING: Taxed as one parcel.
Okay. The existing decks that you show on the
survey, what becomes of them if you were going
to get approval for your porch?
MR. McNAMARA: Well, we just intended on
removing it. The difficulty is we just don't
sit on the deck anymore because of the sun.
MEMBER HORNING: You would remove the
entire -- all of the deck?
MR. McNAMARA: No. We'd probably leave
the deck that's in front of the small part of
the house, which is the entrance. You know,
it's on the ground entranceway and then the
other one we'd probably just leave off cause
it's going to be removed in its entirety.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MEMBER HORNING: And you would somehow
rebuild the existing deck enough so that it
would be attached to the porch or not?
MR. McNAMAP~: No, we wouldn't attach it.
We'd just have to put a stairway there, I
imagine, not a deck.
MEMBER HORNING: Cause the survey doesn't
quite reflect how that would look.
MEMBER GOEHRINGER: No, that's a problem.
MR. McNAMARA: Oh.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Would you
give us that in a letter, exactly what you're
planning to do so that we have it for the
file?
MR. McNAMARA: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: And all your other
paperwork, the Trustees have given you a
permit, correct, or the --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yes. I
just got a communication from them amending it
just to be sure that we have the drywells for
the gutters.
MEMBER HORNING: The septic is not on the
survey either.
MR. McNAMARA: No, the septic tank as you
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
know is -- when you had visited I showed you
where it was.
MEMBER HORNING: Right.
MR. McNAMARA: But I -- when I dealt with
the DEC, I provided them with that
information, so I can give you a copy of that,
if you'd like.
MEMBER HORNING:
MR. McNAMARA:
Right.
I don't have it
here.
Anything
(inaudible).
MEMBER HORNING:
of consistency.
MR. McNAMARA:
Right, that's all there.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, so
you're going to give us -- you're going to
apply for the CO. You're going to give us
everything from the DEC. You're going to
critique the letter from Mr. Collins and tell
us what you can answer on that. You're going
to have the Building Inspector come over and
inspect the property to tell you what is
needed, okay, for you to continue the process.
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
you can give to us that situation
MR. McNAMARA: (Inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Wonderful.
And the LWRC is a letter
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
We will reconvene the hearing at let's say
1:15 on -- what is that September 24? I need
it for myself.
1:30.
1:30.
BOARD SECRETARY: 9/23 and let's do it at
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: 9/23 at
able to make that,
in on the 23.
BOARD SECRETARY:
go into October?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Let's go
into October. October 21st at 1:00.
MRS. McNAMARA: We're not going to be
we're away. We're flying
Okay, so do you want to
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Which?
MEMBER HORNING: Showing the deck --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah,
hopefully he's going to give us everything or
he'll mark this one up so that we know exactly
what we have.
MR. McN~n~AHA: I'll mark it up rather
than spend $2000.00 for another one.
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BOARD SECRETARY:
MEMBER HORNING:
survey, Jerry?
Yes.
Do we need another
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
Okay, so on October 16 --
Sure.
BOARD SECRETARY:
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
at --
BOARD SECRETARY: -- at 1 p.m.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: -- 1 p.m.
Thank you.
BOARD SECRETARY: Thank you.
MEMBER HORNING: Second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
No, October 21st --
October 21st
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103
ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6389 - John E. and
Sharon I. Wren
MEMBER DINIZIO:
~'Request for Variance from Code Section
280-124, based on an application for building
permit and the Building Inspector's March 10,
2010, Notice of Disapproval concerning
reconstruction and addition to single-family
dwelling at 1) less than the
rear yard setback of 35 feet,
maximum lot coverage of 20%;
code required
2) exceeding
at 225 Hippodrome
Dr., Southold. SCTM#1000-66-2-32."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Could you
give us your appearance, please?
MS. KRAMER: I'm sorry?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Could you
give us your appearance?
MS. Kt~AMER: Yes. My name is Meryl
Kramer. I'm an architect for the Wrens. I
was missing one green receipt. I have the
tracking information here.
I also would like to give the Board some
supplementary drawings that address some
issues that have been brought up by some
letters that came from the neighbors.
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Great.
MS. KRAMER: These are progress notes
that are not (inaudible). (Not at
microphone.)
I don't believe the Board has the end
elevations (inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: You have
two letters right, in your file?
MS. KRAMER: I have two, but I understand
that two came in favor of that I didn't get
copies of those.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I have
three.
MS. K~AMER: Okay. The nature of this
project is a renovation of the existing
structure and an addition to the existing
structure that I believe is very much in
keeping with the design and the feeling of the
existing structure.
keep the feeling of
the scale, the roof
We tried very hard to
the original architecture,
slopes, the materials,
window styles. We're really trying to
preserve the integrity of the existing
building. Because of the nature of the
property, the shallowness of the lot of only
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76 feet, it's virtually impossible to create a
structure that complies with the front yard
setback and rear yard setback of 35 feet. We
would have a building that is 6 feet wide.
So what we did was maintain the existing
setback and as you can see from the building
section the link between the two main gables
is going to be a reverse gable, which will
have minimum wall facing towards the rear
yard, which is the area that seems to be the
most contentious with the neighbors. The
dormer windows facing the rear yard on the
second floor are very small and are located
high in the wall so that you really don't have
much in the way of visibility in or out.
They're primarily for light and view, I mean,
and ventilation, excuse me. The windows on
the west portion of the property are going to
be located, again, in the high window dormer
situation above the bed again for ventilation
and light.
The only place on the second floor where
we do have larger windows in any area are
where they're required by the Building Code
for egress and in that situation I have chosen
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
to use the smallest windows possible by using
a casement-type window instead of a double
hung, which would be the traditional choice,
but the casement windows they can design to
look like double hung, but the area of the
window is actually smaller so that even though
you're getting a smaller profile, you're able
to open the entire window allowing for the
square footage that's required by the Building
Code for egress.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Is that
still 5 square feet?
MS. KRAMER: 5.7 square feet.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: 5.7.
MS. KRAMER: So with regard to the
invasion, if you will, of personal property,
we're doing everything we can to mitigate that
through the size of the windows and the
orientation of the windows. With regard to
the lot coverage, we have decided to remove
the existing garage, that is a freestanding
building, and replace it with an attached
garage and we have made it larger, but we've
only increased the lot coverage by 0.5
percent, which I think is negligible, and
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
that's even including the little masonry walls
and piers that are located in front of the
house to define the entrance.
Does the Board have any further questions
for me, cause I know the owners would like to
speak as well.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Any
questions from anybody?
MEMBER DINIZIO: I'd like to hear
everybody. I have questions, but I'd like to
hear what they have to say first.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I'd just
like to make one statement and that is how
does one mitigate the front to back situation
as this is? Meaning, you have a relatively
good sized house there on a setback that's
nonconforming and this is an objection from
the neighbor. I'm just carrying on this
conversation or this thought I should say.
Can you set this back farther from the
property line and offset it a little? Is that
a possibility? I realize it destroys the
architectural lines
be setback farther?
MS. KR3~MER: Set
of the house, but could it
towards the front yard
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
you mean?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
yard you want to refer to it as,
Whatever
okay, you
know, basically to the east we'll refer to it
as. Can it be pushed back any farther?
MS. KRAMER: To the north, you mean, to
the north? I'm --
MEMBER DINIZIO: To the south, Jerry,
farther south.
MS. KRAMER: You're saying in order to
make that 9.3 more substantial?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: Push it toward
Hippodrome Drive is what Jerry is --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right, I
didn't have the survey in front of me.
MS. KP~AMER: Right. I suppose that
anything is possible, but we were trying to
again preserve the integrity of the front yard
from the road and we were trying to preserve
the integrity of the architecture as well.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well,
that's what I was referring to, but here's the
issue. If you get more footage, you can do
some significant tree installation so as to
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
break down some of the height of the
construction and I'm only throwing this out to
you at this particular point. We're going to
hear from your clients, okay?
MS. KRAMER: Um-hmm.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: So I mean
we've done this 100 times and this is the time
that you have come before us without Bay Shore
Road or (inaudible), which is okay.
MS. KtlAMER: No,
first projects was in
the street actually.
I came to you, one of my
(inaudible) right down
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That's
true. That's true, I remember that, yes.
So I'm just throwing that out to you,
okay. So we'll hear from your clients. Thank
you.
MS. KRAMER: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Good
afternoon, sir, how are you?
MR. WREN: Good afternoon.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Would you
state your name for the record?
MR. WREN: Yes. My name is John Wren,
I'm one of the owners. My wife Sharon is
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
here.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: How do you
do?
MR. WREN: She's one of the owners. Good
afternoon.
If I might, I'd just like to put a little
perspective to this whole thing. I came to
the community in 1947, my parents came to the
community in 1947 and brought me along with
them, and in 1976 they turned the property
over to my sisters and me. Then I brought my
sisters' -- since 1976 I became an owner.
Since then I brought my sister's shares from
them and the intent was to retire here because
we always liked it here and we love the
community and the people who are here today
have been my lifetime friends in this
community. So we've known everybody and been
in this community a long time.
For reference, the community is, just the
surrounding area, the house immediately to the
west of me is also a Tudor that has a great
deal of coverage on the lot. It's a very
nice, nicely maintained house and a
beautifully designed house that uses up a
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
great portion of the property and it is close
by. Their garage is very close to the side
yard of my house. The house immediately
behind them, whose line goes halfway along my
line, is one of the people that objected to
our construction. Their name is Warland.
Their house is also very nicely done and it
uses a great deal of their lot coverage and
that house was -- let me go back for a second.
The house to the east, the Stein house,
was originally renovated some years ago, I
think 1988. The Warland house which is to the
south of us and to the west of us, was also
had a large renovation added to it. It
brought their property, their house, their
building up to adjacent to our lot. The house
to the south of us is owned by one of the
objectants that wrote a letter, their name is
Kutchner. That house was built I don't
remember exactly when it was, but that used to
be a big field and we tried to buy it and the
owner of the field said you already have a
house here, we're not going to sell that
property to you. So --
MEMBER HOP~NING: While they're going
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
through this, could we ask him to place these
names with these lots just for accuracy?
MR. WREN: Sure.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Could you
come up here and place the names for us?
MR. WREN: Sure.
MEMBER HORNING: Warland is lot 10 would
you say?
MR. WREN: Uh, yes.
MEMBER HORNING: It's Warland.
MR. WREN: Right.
MEMBER HORNING: And the other one --
MR. WREN: Kutchner.
MEMBER HORNING: Kutchner is lot 6, would
you say that lot there?
MR. WREN: Uh --
MEMBER MORNING: Right in back of your
house, when I was there yesterday --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That is
Kutchner.
MR. WREN: That is Kutchner.
MEMBER HORNING:
Stein.
MR. WREN: Yes.
to the west. Lot 1,
And then you mentioned a
That's the one directly
yes.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
There is one other person directly across
the street from 1.
MEMBER HORNING: Okay and could you
identify that one?
MR. WREN: Right here is Pinto and this
one is (Inaudible).
MEMBER HORNING: This is Pinto and that -
- okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Now, the
one on lot 10 is whom?
MEMBER HORNING: Warland.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Oh, Warland
own it. Excuse me, I apologize. Lot 3 the
southeast side?
MEMBER HORNING: We didn't get that.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We didn't
get that.
MR. WREN: Yes, that's (Inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Lot 3.
MR. WREN: Oh, 3 I'm sorry. That's
Castellano.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Castellano.
Very good. That gives us great perspective
then. Thank you.
MR. WREN: Okay. So that house, as a
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
matter of fact, we're using that property, the
Kutchner property. Our family was using a
good portion of the northerly part of that
with the consent of the owner for many, many
years and then when Dr. Friedman, who is Mrs.
Kutchner's father, she just inherited that
property from Dr. Friedman. He came to me one
day and said are you going to cause any
problem for me if I buy this property with the
prescriptive easement and
not, it's your property.
property and we got along
years since they built.
I said, of course
So he built the
fine for all these
For information purposes, the Kutchner's
front door from our property line is 160 feet
and the distance from our front door to across
the street to the Pinto house, which is just
recently built and completely renovated, is
125 feet.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: More in
particular though, from the corner of your
present house to the Kutchner's house, how far
is it?
MR. WREN: 170 feet.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MR. WREN: So of the 10 houses around us,
7 have been renovated. We've come to you at
this time because we would like to retire here
and, of course, the house being as it was in
1927 isn't quite adequate for us to live year
round and we'd like to bring it up to current
standards.
I thought it would be appropriate for me,
if I might, to just take a couple of the
points that each of the letters that you
received from the Kutchners and the Warlands.
If I might, I'll take the Warland letter
first. The way their house sits there would
be no renovation or change of any kind to our
house along their line that they would see.
Our house is the way it will be. One thing
they might see differently I think is the
dormer that will be put in on the western side
of the house. They would be able to see that,
I think, but other than that there would be no
changes to any part of the structure. So one
of the points they make is that it would
disturb their house and it would give it more
of a closed in feeling by having that, whereas
there would be no change.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
I know that their comment to us that they
don't like the way our house is now, we have a
back door right there and they have commented
to us that they don't like us going out our
back door because we see them when we go out
our back door. Now, that back door has been
there all my life and they weren't.
One of the reasons is that their house
was further away in the old days and it never
bothered the people that lived there, but
since they moved and did the addition that
took it closer to our door of course it
bothers them. So we make every effort we can
not to go out that door just cause we know
they don't like it. They point out that a big
concern is the proximity of our home to the
rear line. Well it's been that way since
1927, so that's the way it is and it's always
been that way. They say this change will take
away their open air and the appeal of their
home. Well, it doesn't really affect their
home since nothing is changing from their
point of view, and that it directly impacts
their personal enjoyment. Well, there's no
question that our home directly impacts their
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
personal enjoyment the way it is now because
they've made a small patio. When they sit out
on that patio our windows all look at it and
when they're out there they know that we can
see them.
MEMBER HORNING: What is their setback
from the property line?
MR. WREN: Their setback?
MEMBER HORNING: Approximately to --
MR. WREN: I would say it's probably 10
feet.
MEMBER HORNING: To the building, to
their house?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: So you're
19 feet apart, basically?
MR. WREN: No, no we're -- again, their
building isn't right up along side our house.
It's back a little bit.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MR. WREN: This is a long lot that comes
in from another street.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR. WREN: That's what the issue is
there. They also point out that this
construction is going damage their shrubs and
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
trees and things. There were a couple of
points they made. I wanted to note that there
is not going to be any construction on that
part of it and secondly any damage that our
contractors do to something will be repaired,
of course.
The issues, if I may now turn to the
Kutchner letter, it's the letter dated July
21, 2010. They make a number of points. They
talk about how this construction is going to
overwhelmingly burden the coverage issue, when
in fact it's only five-tenths (5/10) of a
percent change from the code and that's only
5/10 percent more than the Code permits. I
don't know whether they know it, but of course
we're taking the garage down and a good
portion of the coverage is going to be the new
garage portion that's connected to the house.
They also say that this building is going to
loom over their front step. I don't know how
it can loom when their front door is 160 feet
away from my land, 170 feet away from the
nearest building. They use their property --
they have a driveway that comes in and goes in
a circle and cuts people off and they spend
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
their entire time on other side of the house,
which is toward the bay and they have a
swimming pool out there. So they're never in
their back yard.
In addition, they've even said to me last
year that they were going to abandon part of
their back property. They didn't want to
maintain it anymore. Not abandon the
property, but abandon maintaining it like they
usually groom it pretty nicely. They
indicated they didn't think they were going to
do that anymore, although they have continued
to do it anyway. They talk about how it
changes the nature of the community. Well,
the nature of the community was changed when
the buildings were built. It was a little
summer community and they were all packed
together. All these changes of the houses
does make it a little tighter, but it doesn't
seem fair to the me if everybody else is going
for the right to change their structure, but
we can't. I don't know if it's appropriate
for me to be going through it or not unless
you have some questions of me.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well, only
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
that I'm going to be back over again to look
at the surrounding area just to see
everything. So you'll see me. I'll knock on
the door, I'll say hello.
MR. WREN: That's fine.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: You can
come with me or you let me go myself, it's
entirely up to you.
MR. WREN: If there is anyway we can
help, we'll help you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I have some comments and
some points. Yeah, I looked at the Notice of
Disapproval and there's a second disapproval
lot square footage less than 20,000 square
feet so it would be a minimum rear yard
setback of 35 feet. Yeah, that's correct and
yeah you have an existing setback of 9.3 feet
and for many years you could continue that
line all the way across up to the 20 percent
lot coverage if you so chose, but a few years
back we made a decision on the Board here to
interpret nonconformity a little differently
now and that's not cited in here. So there
may be some confusion.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
121
If we were to apply, and I'm talking
about the Walz decision, to this application,
which I think rightly should be, you're asking
for an enormous variance, an enormous one.
Double.
MR. WREN: For the continuance of the
nonconformance?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yes, sir.
MR. WREN: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I mean you're doubling
the size of the nonconformity and the decision
that we made is called the Walz decision and
it's usually cited, it wasn't here, but it's
usually cited in the Notice of Disapproval
because it explains that increasing the bulk
of the building is -- any nonconformity is
part and parcel of what we should consider and
we're supposed to be granting minimum
variances. Doubling the size of the house is
not a minimum variance.
So I was wondering if there were any way
you could reconfigure this and I would do as
much as taking the garage completely out of
the house part of it, if you wanted to build
the garage in the side yard, you know, on your
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
driveway or the proposed turn around that you
have there, we certainly would consider that,
but in moving that -- narrowing your addition
somewhat and moving it up towards the front, I
mean I'd be willing to give you 30 feet on the
front yard. I'm not trying to horse trade
with you, but I'm telling you that 9.3 feet is
quite a variance and in consideration of the
Walz decision it's an enormous variance from
what we're used to giving. Now that was 7-9
years ago. Actually, it was around this time
too we were considering that.
If you will consider, you know, coming up
with a better plan than 9 -- than carrying on
the 9.3, I would like to see it.
MR. WREN: I really appreciate all you've
stated and I agree that's all prudent. I
think when I -- it seems to me that, this is
all we've talked about from the beginning was
what's the least damaging way to approach this
and when you deal with the front yard to
change that to make it closer to the street,
it does change things considerably. When
you're talking about the rear yard, when
there's no one really around there, I mean
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
there's a lot of space back there between us
and the neighbor's building.
MEMBER DINIZIO: But rear yards are, you
know, rear yard is part of your house. The
front yard is part of the public --
MR. WREN: I know that. I know that.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You know what I mean.
So you can't say that you're not encroaching.
I mean your neighbor has a point when they say
that even increasing that regardless of
whether you're standing and looking out the
windows or not, but that does have some affect
on any neighbor and certainly you have really
just two neighbors that would be affected by
that and all setbacks are there for a reason.
Those 35-foot setbacks are there for that
reason, you know, so when you have a back yard
it's kind of private.
MR. WREN: You know, when you talk about
the Zoning Board's position, it seems to me
that a harsher application of the law was
really -- it really is the harsher application
of the law was for our situation because of
the odd dimensions of our lot.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No doubt that pre-
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existing nonconformity and adding to that in a
minimal way is probably not too well and I
understand that what you're saying is that
this would sound harsh if we didn't consider
that we had the Walz decision, which honestly
if you read that decision you'll see what
you're askin9 us for is huge and I don't
believe we've ever granted a variance that big
before.
MS. KR~LMER:
I believe it was
A quick question. I heard,
from the Building Department
recently that the Walz decision they were
contemplating going back on that.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah. What happens is
I've been asking for the past 7 or 8 years but
as you see as we stand here today it that it
still applies.
MS. KP~AMER: I thought that was upcoming,
not to say that when we're in that -- as we
are standing here now it's still in effect,
but I was under the impression, was told that
that was going to be changed in the Code in --
soon.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We have no
knowledge of that at this point in time.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MS. KRAMER: Okay.
VICE CFL~IRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The
Chairperson is not here, she is with the
Assistant Town Attorney, and that is the
reason why I'm here in this position that is,
temporarily. Let me just, and correct me if
I'm wrong, Meryl's been before us many times,
she's a very nice person, and she's a
wonderful architect. Let me just draw this
little scenario for you.
If we don't agree with your 9.3 feet, we
can ask you -- we can do it without asking
you, but we always graciously ask you if you
will allow us to grant alternate relief. This
is a democratic board, it takes three votes,
okay, out of the total five. There are four
of us here today, we're not going to vote on
it today. We're going to start the
deliberation process just after mid-August,
okay, in doing so. If you say no, then very
simply we're going to vote on the merits of
this case as it's presented to us today.
The reason why Meryl is here, she can
correct me at any time she wants to, we've
done significantly confined space lots with
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
this young lady. Much more significant than
this, okay, 50-foot lots, all right, on the
water. So it's up to you to make a decision
in the very, very near future of what you as a
family would like to do.
All right, you've heard from two of us
that we think maybe you should move off the
line, the 9.3 setback line a little bit
farther, okay. We always ask for -- and I
realize it's somewhat difficult because it's
expensive to run these plans and to deal with
these family orientated situations, but as
they relate to this particular piece of
property and regardless if people use their
rear yards or not, okay, this is a concern
from a couple of us at this particular time.
So we will ask the proverbial question,
will you allow us to deal with an alternate
relief figure, which we will come up with, or
do you want to submit some type of an
additional plan that will give us a greater
setback than 9.3. If you would like to talk
about it we can recess the hearing for a while
and you're very welcome to talk about it and
come back after 1:00 and allow you to have
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
some time with your architect. I will, I'm
sure I can muster up three votes to get that
done cause I know it's an expensive situation.
Okay and -- or it's going to involve setting
another hearing date anyway and -- unless of
course you just say go with this plan as it
exists right now and we will start the
deliberation process right after the August
15tn date, at our next special meeting.
So I guess the question is what would you
like to do? Do you want to recess and discuss
it with this young lady for a while or do you
want us -- do you to grant us alternate relief
so that we can create what we construe to be
the setback that we can agree to as Board
members or would you like to just come up with
an alternate plan of which we will set a new
hearing date.
You know, it's easy for me to just sit up
here, you're a very nice man, Mr. Wren, and to
say why don't you do this, okay, I'm not
asking you to do that. I'm asking you to do
that, I'm asking you to take 20 minutes or a
half hour and sit down with Meryl and see if
you can figure out which way would be the best
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
for you to go.
MR. WREN: I'd certainly like to do that.
I don't know if I fully understand what we're
talking about here.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay. All
right, so let's talk l:30-ish or so. We have
two rather extensive hearings in the afternoon
that are joint hearings and we'll try to work
you in as quickly as possible. If these nice
people that are here want to say something in
your behalf prior to us recessing this
hearing, we will surely give them the attempt
to do so and then you can come back some time.
I can't guarantee on that specific time. I
don't know what Meryl's commitment is to her
office at his point, but we'll try and work it
in as long as it's relatively quick at that
particular point. Is that all right with you?
MS. KP3~MER: That is very okay with me.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I'm just
trying to --
MS. KRAMER: I have a question though
about I know you can't until the Board has a
discussion you can't say what the relief or
the --
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right. The
setback configuration is.
MS. KR3~MER: Right, but you were saying,
you know, possibly 30 feet for the front yard
and -- I'm just trying to look for a critical
dimension that you can work with in order to
make things work so I was just wondering well
what would we be --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You want me to, I mean I
mentioned 30 feet.
MS. KR~24ER: What are we looking for
here?
MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm just looking for
alternative to what you currently have, which
to me, you know, I said well you take the
garage out of this mix, you know, that square
footage --
MS. KR3%MER: Well, except for the second
floor above the garage is (inaudible) space.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I know, I agree with you
100 percent and it just seems to be that the
second floor is probably the most effective
part of this. All right, I agree that for the
most part this house is a good example of what
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
we would probably find in the pyramid law with
the exception of the peak of the roof. It
would be the what, the south side of that
garage. Now if you took that out and didn't
put any dormers there, in other words it was
just roof and it was just slanting up the way
it would be along those back yards, certainly
it would be much less offensive to probably
everybody. I mean you would add a few windows
down below, I mean a couple of bushes can take
care of that very easily. It's the second
story that I find, and it was the second story
in the decision that I've been quoting, that
was the offensive part of it.
So if you can take the peak part of that
roof and just make that go straight up and I
don't know dormer out on the front somehow, I
mean I was offering an extra five feet on the
front, but only because I know that it limits
you in square footage. I know that and you
may not get all of the footage that you would
like to have, but certainly it's a compromise
and then I was saying okay I'd even go as far
as if you were going to lose that square
footage in the garage of granting a garage in
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
the side yard, okay, so that at least you had
a garage that you could put your car in and
you would gain that square footage where you
currently propose to have a garage.
MS. KP~24ER: And part of the reason the
owners wanted to have an attached garage was
because this is going to be their retirement
home and they are looking to make things you
know facilitate --
MEMBER DINIZIO: I understand, but again,
you know, I mean I could say to you if two
people are retiring to a home, it's a fairly
large home.
MS. KRAMER: Right and their extended
family, they have children and grandchildren
and they --
MEMBER DINIZIO: I just -- I agree --
MS. KRAMER: -- it's been their family
home since 1947 and they'd like to keep it
that way until 2047.
MEMBER DINIZIO: But except for the fact
that they're not keeping it that way, they're
doubling it in size.
MS. KRAMER: Okay, so then I will --
we'll recess, but first you'll hear comments
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
from --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah,
quickly we'll have comments cause we really
need to continue and I apologize for that, but
MS. KRAMER:
recommend that we
What time would you
come back?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: 2:00.
BOARD SECRETARY: We have Martz at 2.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay,
anybody?
MR. LATHAM: Steve Latham, I'm a friend
of John's. We grew up together. He's a
little older than I am.
We have homes, these were all
one time.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I
understand.
MR. LATHAM: When I retired we moved out
here and extended our home. It needed a
couple of variances and --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I remember
the application.
MR. LATHAM: You folks were very kind to
us and John faces the same problem, maybe a
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
little more of a question in terms of the
dimensions, but he's trying to do what many of
us -- and surprisingly to me is how many of us
grew up here, moved away, raised our families,
and are now back here in order to finish our
lives out here, but it does require altering
what was a cottage.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR. LATHAM: And I think the objections
that have been raised are self-serving and if
you look at the property, and you're coming
out to look at it again, I think you'll see
that particularly the Kutchner questions you
can barely see their house from theirs because
of the trees. In terms of the Warlands they
have a huge tree in the backyard, which I
doubt that they could even see the extension
from the addition. So I just ask you, you
know, to maintain the character if you look at
the names of the houses which they all have
the original houses there were 20 of them
built in the 20s and 30s, they all have names.
Some of the names are the local location. One
is the Hippodrome, one is the Gully, the Berry
Garden. Others were the Mount Vernon, the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
Southern -- I've forgotten -- but they reflect
the architecture from those areas. So it's
sort of reflective and I think the client and
the architect has successfully tried to
maintain the character by really duplicating
it, I guess, and I would hate to see that
change significantly and if you take away, you
know, make it a flat roof on the left side,
take off the second story, I really don't
think you have what you have now. You're
changing the character and the look of the
building significantly.
I can't speak for the line or anything
else, but I'd love see John stay here and his
family. We've known each other for a long
time and if it doesn't happen well I can't
speak for him, but I know myself if we hadn't
had relief we probably wouldn't be here. This
is just, you know, you grow into a certain age
and we may be a little older than some of you
but you have certain needs and I don't think
the home as it stands meets their continuing
needs. They have a beautiful home in
Westchester, this will be a beautiful home
when it's finished and I would hope that you
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
would take that into consideration. Thank
you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
Thank you.
Yes, ma'am.
MS. HEATH: Good afternoon.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Would you
state your name again?
MS. HEATH: Yes. Ora Heath and my
husband Bruce wanted to be here, but was
unable to be and I just wanted to speak.
We are in the process of finishing up our
home and went through this process last year.
We retired out here too (inaudible) for 31
years and I think Steve said it very well. I
think they've worked very hard to maintain the
integrity of the area and to maintain the
integrity of the community and I think what
they're going to do will only enhance that
integrity of the community and also enhance
the value of all our homes. I think they've
worked very hard and very diligently. I know
how hard we worked and we worked very
carefully with the Board and with the
Trustees, with the DEC. So I understand the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
process, but I think they've worked very hard
and we're looking forward to them retiring out
here as we have done and (inaudible) full
time.
So I hope you'll, I know you'll give it
thoughtful consideration as you did with ours.
Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MS. CASTELLANO: Hi. I'm Elana
Castellano. I am in the lot to the east of
the Wrens and I just was here to support them.
I think, as Ora said, they've given careful
consideration to the renovation of the
building to not intrude on anybody or anything
and keeping in -- keeping the house in the
style that it's in now and I just support what
they're trying to do and hope you will support
them too.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you
very much.
MS. CASTELLkNO: Thank you.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We Thank
you very much and we will see you back at 2:00
or thereabouts. I make a motion adjourning
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
this hearing until 2 pm or thereabouts.
MEMBER HORNING: Second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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138
ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6390 - Jennie Pappas
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
"Request for Variance from Code Sections
280-124 and 280-116, based on an application
for building permit and the Building
Inspector's January 12, 2010 Notice of
Disapproval, amended March 4, 2010, concerning
"as built" additions to single-family
dwelling, at 1) less than the code required
side yard setback of 10 feet, 2) less than the
code required rear yard setback of 35 feet, 3)
less than the code required setback to a
bulkhead of 75 feet, 4) exceeding maximum lot
coverage of 20%; at 85 Beverly Rd., (adj. to
Arshamomaque Pond) Southold. SCTM#1000-52-2-
15."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: How are you
today fine lady? Would you state your name
for the record, please?
MRS. MESIANO: Catherine Mesiano on
behalf of Mr. Pappas -- of Mrs. Pappas, the
applicant. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: What would
you like to tell us?
MS. MESSIANO: Okay, what I would like to
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
tell you is that in 1973 this Board granted a
variance for the construction of this house
and the setbacks of the house are in
accordance with that variance. All of that
documentation is in the packages that I've
submitted to you. The pergola that was
constructed over the patio, which was one of
the issues that the Building Inspector raised,
does not exceed the limit -- the ground limit,
the footprint of the patio and that patio is
within that variance that was granted. The
only area that exceeds the limit of the
variance or exceeds the footprint of the
variance that was granted is 17 square feet of
the -- and that would be the northwest corner
of the shed addition on the -- at the
northwest section of the property.
Everything else is within the setbacks
granted. I was surprised to see the
disapproval written as it was since the house
was build in accordance with a previous
variance. So I'll stop at that point if the
Board has questions because I don't really
know which direction you plan to go with this.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Now, you
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
said 17 square feet of what?
MS. MESI~LNO: If you look in my package I
have a sketch that I included.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MS. MESIANO: And I colored it in, you
know, I drew in the setbacks that were granted
in that 1973 variance and I shaded in the area
of the shed attachment. It's a 5 by 12
appurtenance at the northwest side of the
house and of that 5.2 by 12 appurtenance the
8.3 -- no, excuse me. That was the 10-foot
setback that was granted under the old
variance. 17 square feet of that 5.2 by 12
appurtenance encroaches over that setback line
that was established in the earlier variance.
So that's really the only nonconformity, if
you will, in this situation. That is a
storage shed that was attached to the
structure rather than having a freestanding
shed at some place else on the property. It's
not accessible through the house. It's
strictly storage for lawn furniture and tools
what-have-you.
I don't know if that helps to clarify
things.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Did you sit
down with the Building Inspector at all
regarding this 1973 variance?
MS. MESIANO: I gave him the 1973
variance when I made my submission.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And this is
signed by Pat Conklin who is the person that
normally writes these Notice of Disapprovals.
MS. MESIANO: Right, right.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Have you
questioned her after this to ask her if there
were any merits to that decision that were
embodied within this Notice of Disapproval?
MS. MESI~NO: I didn't challenge it. I
tried that in the past and it never works, so
I just -- I'm here.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MS. MESIANO: I felt strongly that it was
not -- the Disapproval to the extent that it
was written was not warranted because the
house was totally CO'd. We went back and
forth a number of times because there was a
question about the concrete patio because the
first building permit application didn't show
the patio, but during the construction process
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
the patio was added and I was able to show
through old documents that I found in my
research how that came to be and that it still
was within the confines of the setbacks
determined in that earlier variance.
We went so far as to have the Building
Inspector go back to the site to look at the
patio to see that it looked old enough to have
been there since 1974 when the CO was issued
and it does in fact look old enough and when
you see the photographs on the property card
from the Assessor's Office you can see that
the concrete patio was there at that point.
So I pieced things together to establish
that there had been a variance. The structure
was built within the confines of the variance
and the most, if you will, egregious condition
is the 17 square feet that encroaches over the
setback that was granted for that northerly
line.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Could I
just, do we have a CO in here?
MS. MESI~NO: There should be, I -- I'm
positive.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Maybe I
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
missed it.
BOARD SECRETARY: It's in there.
MS. MESIANO: I will look through my
package if you -- it was probably a 50-page
submission so -- because I wanted you to be
able to see --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah, I did
review this once before, but --
MS. MESIANO: Would you like me to go
through any of that paperwork and explain to
you without you having to study it, because I
think it will --
MEMBER HORNING: What precipitated the
Notice of Disapproval?
MS. MESIANO: Mr. Pappas -- Mrs. Pappas
rather was entertaining selling the house
there, they're retired. They have a house
here, they have a house in Bellmore and they
have a winter place in Florida and maintaining
three homes is just getting to be too much and
they decided to just get rid of one of the
houses. They were going to sell it and their
real estate agent suggested that they check
and make sure that their CO matched everything
that was there so they didn't get to the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
closing table and then have that come up and
then have it take six months to resolve while
the closing -- you know, your mortgage
commitments are expiring and so on and so
forth.
So they did the prudent thing, which was
try to correct this before the property was
sold.
MEMBER HORNING: What was there to
Tell us about the discrepancy
correct then?
between --
MS. MASIANO: The discrepancy between the
C of O and what's there today is that the 5 by
12 shed addition was not on the CO. Now, if
that 5 by 12 shed were freestanding, we
wouldn't be discussing it because it's less
than 100 square feet. They attached it to the
house and when the siding was done they
included the siding being where it is a
smaller lot, a waterfront property, it made
more sense to attach it than have it
freestanding, but again had it been detached
we wouldn't be talking about it because it's
less than 100 square feet.
MEMBER HORNING: And as you explained
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
Earlier,
MS.
MEMBER HORNING: There
than outside.
MS. MESIANO: That's
it's attached only by the siding.
MESIANO: That's correct.
is no access other
correct. It's not
conditioned or habitable space. It's simply a
storage shed. I tried to get photographs that
were representative so there should be a
number of them in there. The only other thing
that was there now that was not there in 1974
is over the concrete patio there is a trellis-
type structure. It's not --
roof on it. It doesn't have
a pergola for the -- because
it doesn't have a
sides; it's just
it's directly
south facing. So it provides a little bit of
shade without blocking the sunlight totally.
A simple pergola structure and the Building
Department raised that as an issue even though
I demonstrated that the concrete patio was
there at the time that the CO was issued.
If you look at the property information
card from the Assessor, the photograph that's
there clearly shows that patio and the pergola
that's there is just sits over that concrete
slab.
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CO?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Does the pergola have a
MS. MESIANO: No, that's why we're here
because the Building Department determined
that that pergola required a variance.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay. I agree.
MS. MESIANO: Tell me why you agree
because I have --
MEMBER DINIZIO: Because it's a
structure.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It's more
than 8 inches high.
MS. MESIANO: Okay, because in the code
the code defines a structure as having, you
know, walls and a ceiling and so this doesn't
fit the classification of a structure. Now I
know a swimming pool is also a structure.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And so is a
tennis court.
MEMBER DINIZIO: But not a deck.
MS. MESIANO: A deck? I guess it depends
on whether it's attached to the house and how
high off the ground it is.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It's still
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
a structure.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
MS. MESIANO: So
A deck is a structure.
-- but I was more
baffled by the fact that a variance had been
previously written, so therefore I haven't
increased a degree of nonconformity because
-- that's my legal setback and I didn't
encroach on that setback.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I -- I think you
ought to spend a little less time on bashing
the Building Department and just explain to
us, you know, what it is that you need.
MS. MESIANO: I --
MEMBER DINIZIO: (Inaudible) trellis,
okay. It looks nice and probably not going to
be a big deal. You know, attaching the
building, you know, that built shed to the
house, you know, that does seem to be a
problem because it has become part of the
house and certainly it doesn't conform to the
variance that was given.
MS. MESIANO: Right. There's a 17-foot
encroachment over the setback. So basically
MEMBER DINIZIO: Right. Right. Yeah,
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
but it's -- what was the setback that was
given?
MS. MESIANO: The setback that was given
-- let me just get the old variance out. I
believe it was 10 feet because that -- yes, it
was --
MEMBER DINIZIO: You're a foot and a half
off, closer to the property line.
MS. MESIANO: Let me -- let me just get
specific and --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Now, it
would be to present day standards.
MS. MESIANO: And today the standard
would be 10 feet, so I'm 1 foot and 10 inches.
So I'm simply asking for a variance for that
1-foot 10-inch encroachment, which totals 17
square feet and the pergola that is
constructed over -- or trellis, as they refer
to it, over the concrete slab.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Very good.
MS. MESIANO: And I in no may intended,
meant to bash the Building Department. I was
agreeing with Mr. Goehringer that I didn't
understand it and here I am.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, so
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those are the only two issues that are before
MS. MESIANO: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: -- at this
particular point, to our knowledge. I don't
have any specific questions regarding that. I
guess there could be a time limit put on the
trellis, if we were so inclined to do so.
MS. MESIANO: I'm sorry? I couldn't hear
you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: There could
be a time limit put on the trellis that if the
trellis deteriorated, then it could not be
replaced. I don't know if we would do that or
not --
MS. MESIANO: Well, I would rather see
you say something like it could never have a
roof on it. It can't be part of the
structure.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well, it's
added to the structure, so it's part of the
structure.
MS. MESIANO: Right, but I've seen in
other instances where you've given variances
for decks and you've made a condition that the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
deck can never have a roof over it, it always
has to be open to the sky and in other
instances where there have been porches and
you've made stipulations that the porches
could not become conditioned space. So to say
to someone you can never have pergola again, I
mean it is south facing, it is very hot and --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I'm just
throwing it out, Cathy.
All right, any questions of this fine
young lady here?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I don't have any
questions.
MEMBER HORNING: No.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, so
the point in question is we'll deal with those
two -- those particular variances and whatever
conditions, if any, we want to put on that.
MS. MESIANO: Okay, I would just like to
reiterate that a resolution that was granted
in the 1973 variance that the house be located
at least 15 feet from Beverly Road, 10 feet
from the northerly line -- that's the line in
question.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That's the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
17 square feet.
MS. MESIANO:
from the northeast
Right and it was 35 feet
and no closer than 20 feet
to the westerly and no closer than 25 to the
southerly and that was determination number --
ZBA determination 1862 that was granted in
1973 prior to the commencement of construction
of the house.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: How
difficult would it
off?
MS. MESIANO:
be to take the storage shed
It would be difficult
because the siding is integral with the rest
of the property. They'd have to take apart
the siding, redo the roof because the roof is
attached at that point. If you look at my
photographs you'll see that it's just a --
it's -- it would -- I thought about that and
contemplated your asking me that and I think
it would really be a problem because of the
way the roof is attached to the roof of the
house and because it's attached to the side of
the house and the siding is attached so I
think it would be a problem to take down the
shed for the want of 17 square feet.
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: When I
looked at it, I'd probably concur with what
you're saying.
MS. MESIANO: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: But we'll
see what develops.
MS. MESIANO: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Any
questions of anybody else?
MR. PAPPAS: May I just make a small
comment?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We just
need you to sate your name, sir.
MR. PAPPAS: My name is William Pappas.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: How do you
do?
MR.
who owns
The
PAPPAS: I'm the husband of the lady
the house.
shed was added on. It was my mistake
basically cause I didn't realize the back yard
-- the (inaudible) property (inaudible) to the
house and I continued the line of the house to
go for the setback. I made a mistake and I'm
paying for it now. As far as the trellis in
the front, it's a prefab aluminum unit. I had
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
to put together like an erector set. It was
ordered (inaudible) and it's solid and it's
not going to go anywhere for a long time. It
was added to the house aesthetically and for
some shade and I would appreciate it if you
people let us get away with it. Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
Anybody, any questions from anybody?
Cathy, do you have anything else?
MS. MESIANO: No, I think that Mr. Pappas
stated it, you know, very well and I don't --
there's no objections from the neighbors. I
think that what we're asking for is minimal
especially in light of the fact that the
earlier variance was granted and not realizing
that the lot line and the house were not
parallel is what caused this problem to begin
with. So we hope you'll be feeling generous.
Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
I'll make a motion closing the hearing,
reserving decision until later.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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154
ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6373 - Christa Hildebrand and
Jeff William Abrams
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We are
ready for you, Mr. Abrams. This is an
adjourned hearing.
How are you today?
MR. ABRAMS: Fine, thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: As you
know, the Chairperson and myself were at your
nice house and we toured your storage building
and we asked you several pointed questions.
Number one was is the place heated, you told
us no. You gratuitously showed us your
garage, which is a garage, which is attached
to this, and you told us that you are an
artist and this is a portion of an art studio
and you had a specific question asked of you
at the last hearing by Mr. Dinizio and I'm
going to ask Mr. Dinizio to ask that question
again; unless you'd like me to ask it?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No. I mean I guess I
was looking for a price, did you ever get
prices on this?
MR. ABRAMS: Yes, I did.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You did, okay.
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MR. ABRAMS: I spoke with MJ Construction
Company and they gave me a price for removing
existing wall, putting up a new wall. The
idea was to satisfy both problems, which is
the lot line and the amount of square footage,
I would slice the back of the building 6 feet
by 26 feet and that's all I would do and that
would satisfy both problems. I wouldn't have
to move the building. I wouldn't have to
slice part of the building one way and part of
the building the other way. Just 6 feet off
the lot line area would satisfy both problems.
I spoke to the Building Department about that,
so (inaudible) --
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, that's why I asked
you to go to them and find out what was
acceptable.
MR. ABRAMS: You were correct about that
because I had no clue.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah. No, I didn't
either.
MR. ABRAMS: So that's what they told me
to do and that's what I got a price on. The
MJ Construction Company, it basically
enumerates all the stuff they'd have to do and
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
they came up with $8700.00. I, however, came
up with my own price because I can easily put
in a wall and do all this stuff and I would
reuse some of the materials that are there,
not all the studs, but the T-111 that's on the
back, the insulation --
MEMBER DINIZIO: Let me ask a question.
What I was looking for was a price for you to
submit to me so that I could compare it, so
that I could weigh it in the variance, okay?
Now, I know you could do your work much
cheaper, okay, but I think that's how you got
the (inaudible) you're in right now.
MR. ABRAMS: No, I got in this problem
because I didn't (inaudible).
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, no. I agree. If
you submitted the J & M estimate to us, that
would satisfy my curiosity as to what the
hardship would be for you to comply with the
law, which that's exactly what I was looking
for and the rest of
put on the record.
MR. ABRAMS: I
MEMBER DINIZIO:
your --
it, sir, I prefer you not
didn't make any copies.
Do you need a copy for
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MR. ABRAMS: No, I have a copy.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The
question I have, ladies and gentlemen, and I'm
referring to ladies as the person sitting here
with us, is there any questions we have of Mr.
Abrams regarding this application?
MEMBER HORNING: I'll ask him the
question, are you willing and is that your
intention to do the work of cutting --
separating the buildings?
MR. ABP~AMS: Only if I have to. I mean
that's why I'm applying for a variance so that
I don't have to.
MEMBER DINIZIO: What he submitted to us,
George, was basically if he did -- he
submitted to us something that would not
require a variance.
MEMBER HOR/qING:
MEMBER DINIZIO:
Right.
Okay, so I asked for
that number just so -- I mean we know what he
had, it's already built. You know, except for
the fact that it's attached to the garage,
which makes it, you know, throws it in a
different category, I just wanted to know how
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
much trouble
we have a number now.
decision; I can make
I'll write it.
MEMBER HORNING:
it would be for him to comply and
Certainly we can make a
a decision anyway and
Well, he could attach
the whole thing to his house, too.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah, that seemed to be
a (inaudible). I wanted the minimum, you
know, I just wanted to know how much trouble
it was for him to comply, you know, with what
he has right now.
MEMBER HORNING:
MR. ABRAMS: I
estimates.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, no it's not
necessary.
MR. ABRAMS: I just --
MEMBER DINIZIO: Not at all, you did a
good job.
MR. ABPJ~MS: Okay.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
Yes.
could go out and get other
that we were looking at, I don't know, it was
either to make two accessory structures out of
that one structure that's there now or take
off like 130-some-odd square feet of what you
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
had added without the building permit to
comply with the 750 square feet; is that what
we're talking about here?
MR. ABP~AMS: It was a lot line problem
and a square footage problem.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yeah and you said you
would maybe possibly shave off the back that's
against the side yard so you can conform to
both. To both, yes, the square footage and
the side yard requirement.
MR. ABRAMS: Yes.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: So it's -- Mr. Dinizio
ranks up there with --
MEMBER DINIZIO: I mean I was just
looking, like I said, I was just looking for a
number that would tell me, you know, how much
trouble it is to come into comply with a
building already in existence on a lot that's
been there for many, many years.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You did a wonderful job.
I appreciate it.
MR. ABRAMS: Thanks.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Would
anybody else like to speak?
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
Seeing no hands,
closing the hearing,
later.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
(See Minutes
I'll make a motion
reserving decision until
Second.
for Resolution.)
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161
ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6389 John E. and
Sharon I. Wren, Continued
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, we're
going to reconvene the Wren hearing. I'll
make the motion. You want to open it?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Second.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: All in
favor?
COLLECTIVE: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yes?
MS. KP3~MER: Okay, so we have a question
for you regarding the alternate relief. If we
consider alternative relief are you going to
be able to give us the parameters today?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Here's a
couple of options, if you (inaudible). On the
footprint basis, don't go into huge
architectural drawings just so we know if we
can deal with that aspect of it.
MS. KR3%MER: So you're not giving us the
parameters, we're giving you a --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: An option,
option 1, you know, based on a percentage.
Okay?
MS. KRAMER: And then if we -- okay. And
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
if you choose -- or we can choose to just have
you vote on what it is.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Can I just show you or
maybe you can reiterate -- just show me on
this plan the back side and the front side,
this is what you gave us this morning.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Where's the front
entrance?
MS. KRAMER: That was what I submitted
with the application.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Right. This is --
MS. KRAMER: This is the rear.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Right, this is the rear,
so this is the closest part to --
MS. KRAMER: And this is existing
inaudible).
MEMBER DINIZIO: Right. This is it, this
ms not.
MS. KR_AMER: Correct.
MEMBER DINIZIO: All I'm saying is take
this off and make it go slant the same as
this, that's what I'm saying. I (inaudible)
moving this, moving any of this, taking these
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
off. We're going to compromise on this, okay,
and I'm looking for minimum amount from you
that would be acceptable. Okay? Now -- and I
know you're going to lose a room here, okay,
so I was saying, okay, you have a garage. You
could use that extra room that you're going to
lose here, you could put that in the garage
and then put a --
MS. KR3U~ER: You want to address the
separate garage for a moment?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Now, the
problem that we have is we have problems
taking this down in reference to you, so why
don't you let Mr. Wren stay there. Does he
need to look over your shoulder? Why don't
you go back to him and --
MS. KRAMER: Oh, yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I just wanted to clarify
for you what I wanted and that's the peak I'm
talking about.
MS. KP3d~ER:
understand that.
I understand.
Thank you.
Yes, I do
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Now, does
he need to come over with you and speak to you
or do you -- I mean I don't want to confuse or
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
befuddle this, the person taking the
transcript down.
MS. KP~AMER: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That's
where the problem comes in.
MS. KtLAMER: We did want to, because Mr.
Dinizio did say several times why don't we
separate the garage, but there's -- we wanted
to address that issue --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MS. KPJkMER: -- in the hearing while the
hearing was open.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
MR. WREN: If I may, I'm John Wren, for
the record.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yes.
MR. WREN: I'm the owner, one of the
owners. I'm reluctant to throw this card out
there because, it embarrasses my wife, but we
need an attached garage because she's
disabled.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I
understand.
MR. WREN: And she has a handicapped
sticker.
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MR. WREN: and we have it at home and it
works. I mean in Westchester we have it at
home and that's why we need to do it here.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MR. WREN: So the attached garage is
pretty important.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
understand.
MR. WREN:
I
Thank you.
MS. KRAMER: So are we in agreement that
we will present an alternative design or one
or two we'll put together and come up with
something and then we'll reconvene at the --
now would we be able to have a work session or
we just come --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No work
sessions.
MS. K/LAMER: -- present to you --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah, just
present it back to us and we'll review the
plans with you and then we'll close the
hearing and then we'll make a decision on
either the existing plan or the A and B plan
or whatever you choose to give us.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MR. WREN: So do I understand correctly
that you're saying if we come up with this
alternative we're not waiving the other at
this point?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That is
correct.
MR. WREN: No, but we can make a choice
then when we --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right. I
want -- I don't want to -- for this Board,
this is my opinion and only my opinion, to say
we're denying your application. Okay, so then
when we go into a deliberation process we know
that there is an alternate plan if we can't
agree on your application at this time. At
the same time, I'm saying to this very nice
lady in her professional status, I don't want
you to inflict a lot of dollars on these
people regarding these plans, okay, because
we're not truly in a divine situation. Our
issues are setbacks, okay? We can ask you for
that design later, okay, and stamp that, okay,
sometime later after we've made a decision on
what we construe to be the favorable or the
most favorable that we'll allow for the three
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
votes that will carry the variance.
MEMBER HORNING: Jerry, I have a
question.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
MEMBER HORNING: If they came up with a
revised plan --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MEMBER HORNING: -- shown on the survey,
wouldn't they need a new Notice of
Disapproval?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That is
correct.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, the -- I'm not
asking them to change the setback one bit.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: All right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm asking them to
reduce basically the square footage of that
addition.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Oh, okay.
All right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm asking them to take
out that back room and make it all roof.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I was
misconstrued then.
MEMBER HORNING: Right. I thought we
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
were
move
have
that.
talking about maybe asking if they could
it towards the street.
MEMBER DINIZIO: They certainly would
to apply and we would have to readvertise
MEMBER HORNING: Yes.
MS. KRAMER: So in which case we would --
if that's the case, then we would just say
vote on this and --
MEMBER DINIZIO: Right.
MS. KR3kMER: -- then if we have to come
back, we come back with an alternative design
and then --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well --
MS. KRAMER: -- see if that one works.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: -- so
you're decreasing volume; is that what you're
doing?
MEMBER DINIZIO: Certainly. I mean
that's what Walz talks to. So I mean I think
you understand what I'm looking for and --
MS. KRAMER: You're looking to change the
orientation of the roofline so that the two-
story portion of the addition is not facing
the rear --
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MEMBER DINIZIO: Right. Not there.
MS. KP~_MER: -- property line.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I mean you're familiar
with the pyramid law.
MS. KRAMER: Right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's what that would
be. In other words, you wouldn't be going --
you'd reduce the height on that 9-foot piece
of side all the way to --
MS. KPg~MER: Side, that's what I did
essentially with the link.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You did a nice,
beautiful, yeah, beautiful job and I'm saying,
you know, it's still a lot and if you can get
away with just having one room on that side of
the house, good. If you can take the dormers
out on that side of the house, better. I
offered the detached garage only because I
knew you were going to lose square footage and
if you wanted to put your car in the garage,
again, I was just throwing it out there, not
to say that other board members would agree
with me granting it --
MS. KRAMER: Right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: -- but again just giving
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you some alternatives to what I see is a huge
variance even with what I'm proposing.
MS. KPg~MER: Okay. So we're going to --
out,
MEMBER DINIZIO: You just take that peak
you can just erase it.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Meryl, how
is it going to take you to do this, if
long
you need to do it?
MS. KRAMER: We have to meet. I don't
know when you're going back to -- or you're
here --
When is your September hearing? No,
August, I'm sorry.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: August 26.
BOARD SECRETARY: August 26, so you'd
have August 26tn, September 23, whichever way
you want to go, Meryl, that you can timewise
do.
MS. KRAMER: So we'll take the 26~n of
August, if we can.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Fine.
It'll be in the afternoon because it's an add-
on. I'm going to say 1:30.
MS. KRAMER: And in the meantime, you
know, if we can come up with a solution --
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Then you
just send us a letter.
MS. KP~MER: -- write a letter to you and
just say we would like to have a vote on as
submitted.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: As it
stands, right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You have to do that
within the next two weeks --
MS. KP_AMER: Okay.
MEMBER DINIZIO: -- because we're going
to have to vote to close it at the special
meeting.
MS. KRAMER: At the special meeting.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah, we
can close it at the special meeting and start
deliberation at the same time. I mean we
could physically do that. Okay?
MS. KRAMER: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
MS. KRAMER: Thank you everybody for your
time.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Thank you.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Pleasure.
Okay, so we're going to adjourn this to
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
August 26tn at 1:30 pm.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second that.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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173
ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6367 - Kevin and Jeanine Faga
MEMBER HORNING:
~Request for Variances under Sections
280-124 and 280-116B, based on the Building
Inspector's February 3, 2010 amended Notice of
Disapproval concerning demolition and
reconstruction of a single-family dwelling at
less than the code-required minimum of 10 feet
on a single side yard and less than 75 feet
from the existing bulkhead (dwelling and
foundation were removed, this is a deviation
from original grant No's. 6281 &6243) adjacent
to Orient Harbor, at 12632 Main Road, East
Marion; CTM Parcel#1000-31-14-8.2."
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Ms. Moore,
would you give us your appearance, please?
MRS. MOORE: Yes. Patricia Moore, 51020
Main Road, Southold. The attorney for the
applicant, I have Kevin Faga here and I have
Jeff Butler the P.E. here as well.
So if I could just give some paperwork to
you, I would ask -- a lot of paperwork here,
actually. I have my letter, I'm going to be
going over it so if you just -- it has an
attachment that I thought the Board -- oh, I'm
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
sorry, that's the original.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No problem. Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Is that the
original?
MRS. MOORE: I believe it is.
Attached to my letter I have an aerial
photograph, a Google Earth photo, but Jeff had
printed one as well and it's a much better
print so I'm going to give that to you because
it's so much better. Mine is a copy.
Okay and finally, Jeff will be discussing
this letter. This is a letter he wrote in
response to the Trustees' letter to you that
came in I think yesterday. It was faxed to us
and it clarifies the design and which design
the Trustees had in front of them when they
sent the letter. So we'll (inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay and
before we leave this hearing and before I
close this hearing, you're going to reflect on
the letter that was outstanding from the
contiguous property owner.
MRS. MOORE: I'll discuss --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And if you
don't discuss it here, you'll send us a letter
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
175
MRS. MOORE: And if you're not satisfied
with our discussion, we can expand on it. So
I'll leave it to the end and you decide.
What I start with is, and I always like
to do this, is take a look at the history of
the property and I have attached to my letter
the Board -- the Zoning Board back in '72,
this Board in '72 granted to Perry Fuoco the
subdivision of this property and it shows -- I
give this, but the decision is pretty
straightforward. It allows the area variances
to create the two lots. There were two houses
on the property and consistent with other
neighboring subdivisions that have taken place
the Board had granted the subdivision.
As I said, the two properties were
developed. You see from the survey that's
attached in the back the neighbor's house to
the north, which we feel strongly about trying
to preserve the integrity of this particular
development, and the original cottage house
which was the subject of your appeal -- the
appeal previously by Mr. Faga to do the
alterations and renovations to that structure.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
You can see that that -- the placement of that
house is over to the far -- to the west side
of the property and on the north end the house
along the road is closer towards the east side
of the property with the right-of-way being
the access point on the east side. So keeping
that in mind I wanted to have that attached so
you could see what the existing development is
of these two properties.
The Board, as I said, granted previously
the right to Mr. Faga to make the improvements
to the house. He anticipated foundation
repairs. I heard -- in your description you
say that there's no foundation there, but in
fact the foundation still is there and you
probably saw it when you were there. There
was a need to increase the height of the
foundation as it originally was and as it is
today it needs to comply with FEMA. So an
extra course would have to be added and also
the FEMA regulations require that the existing
foundation be filled because there is a full
basement there and it would need to be -- FEMA
rules would require that it be converted to a
crawl space, but for all intents and purposes
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
that foundation was planned to be used. We
would like to continue to use it. What he
believes the value of that foundation is.
So when the Board noticed it without a
foundation I want to clarify for the record
the foundation is still there. During the
construction process I believe the builder may
have knocked two blocks out of the -- off
(inaudible), but for the most part it's still
the same as it was.
Mr. and Mrs. Faga had applied for a
relatively modest house, for Southold
standards it's a modest house. It does
maintain the character of the area and again
pointing out the property owner to the north
with this property it kept the view space and
the open space for the one property that
probably most affected by the construction of
this house, the northerly property owner, and
I'm sure when you visited the property you saw
that the northerly property owner actually had
the house on the market and anybody who would
be buying that house I'm sure will be equally
concerned about maintaining some open space
and view scapes. Again, our plan has always
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
been to maintain the integrity of those two
properties.
What we did is Mr. Butler provided for
you originally right from the beginning the
plans that were submitted and if you recall we
had a November-dated plan -- excuse me,
February-dated plan because the original
Zoning Board approval back in '09 had the
addition on the seaward side. Based on
conversations with the Trustees, the Trustees
took no issue and my client certainly has no
issue with relocating that addition because it
was feasible and it wouldn't change the
overall design of the house, we moved it to
the landward side.
So you have the plan that is last dated
June 19th, allow me to clarify the dates. Oh,
okay. The very fine print on the far corner
where it's February 2,
on the side yard to 5
it's just small print
2nd is still the same date, revised addition.
On that site plan, which is in your file,
we also show the -- what would be the legal
building envelope and this is one of the
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2010 reduced the stoop
foot 3 inches. Sorry,
that I -- okay, February
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
points that the neighbor raises. I would
point out to you that the neighbor to the west
is a property that is more than the side --
the zoning is one acre here. The property
next door is about 78,000 square feet, so it's
almost double the size of the Faga property.
Their house is very nice, but it's a very
large property and it's easy for someone to
say force them to comply with the code. When
we put the building envelope on the Faga
property we have the 35-foot front yard
setback. You have the 10-foot westerly side
yard and you have a 15-foot easterly side yard
and then when you impose the 100-foot setback
from the wetland or current high water and the
75-foot setback from the bulkhead, it leaves a
building envelope that when you measure it out
is very long, very narrow and it would change
the character of this lot and this
neighborhood by imposing on my client the
obligation to build what would be the
equivalent of a mobile home. It would be
about 20 feet in width and very long.
It would certainly not be in keeping with
the architectural style of the homes along the
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
water here and it would just be, quite
frankly, an abomination on this property.
Certainly impacting the landward property
owner that would have a narrow long house
essentially from one end to the other really I
think affecting the values of their property
as well.
So with respect to the neighbor's
comment, as we go along we'll respond to the
neighbor's comment, there is no feasible way
to develop with property without some form of
variance from the bulkhead. So I would ask
you to keep that in mind. I also provided to
you the setbacks that we could get either
through surveys or through aerial photographs
of the neighboring properties and what we
discovered is when we give you the setbacks of
the neighboring properties the average setback
to the bulkhead is 28.75 to the dwelling and
we have proposed 30.1. The average setback of
similar sized properties and in this instance
we only have two decks that we could look at
the deck were 28 feet as far as the average
setback among the decks that were there.
There may be more, but unfortunately we can't
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
go on people's property and we can only base
it on the records that we could get. We've
proposed 27.3, but for the cantilevered
balcony second floor, if you recall the
cantilevered doesn't have posts, it is of a
certain minimal size and it is --- in this
instance it's relatively a setback that is --
still allows for the air and light to continue
to be on the ground.
When we also look at properties down
further west, Rabbit Lane, that's probably a
very similar comparable neighborhood for this
neighborhood, Rabbit Lane, most of the homes
on Rabbit Lane and I attached the Google of
Rabbit Lane, what we saw were setbacks that
were very close to 15 feet as an average
setback. So again this area variance for the
properties that are nonconforming and many of
them are half acre or less, they are dealing
with setbacks that are much closer than the
required 75 feet to the bulkhead. We also
have just shared with me and I'll have to give
this to you at a later date because I only
have the survey, one survey, the property
owners to the east, as I said in the past had
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similarly subdivided the property so there
would be a record in the old subdivision, but
I didn't see it, shows the seaward two-story
house. You see it on the Google Earth Map and
the setback to the deck of our neighbor to the
east is only 15 feet and both properties, the
neighbor on the seaward side has side yard
setbacks of as close as 1.9 and 3.7 side yard
setbacks. The northerly landward house on the
east that adjoins our neighbor on the north
has side yard setbacks of 9.1 and similar
constraints.
They all have, for the most part,
developed over to the side of the properties
again to try to keep a certain amount of open
space since there are small properties,
bulkheaded properties. Rather than putting
the house right smack in the middle of the
property as many people might do, they tried
to maintain certain courtesy with their
neighbors by preserving some open views. So
I'll get that to you after the hearing.
My clients ask the Board to please
consider granting them the ability to use the
same plans, to use the foundation they have
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and what I wanted to do is have Jeff come up
now because it seemed appropriate for him to
discuss the letter, his communications with
the Trustees, and then some alternative plans
that we were trying to come up with because
the Board I know always wants us to consider
more conforming alternative plans, but every
time that we considered an alternative plan it
had consequences and we want you to be aware
of those consequences and we ask you to weigh
those consequences because nothing is perfect.
So I'll just step aside and have Jeff go
over those issues.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Mr. Butler
would you just give us your appearance?
MR. BUTLER: Jeffrey T. Butler, P.E.,
offices at 406 Lincoln Street, Riverhead, New
York.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Perhaps you
think that this is something out of the
ordinary, you may not have seen this before,
but we're going to ask you a couple of
questions and we just want your opinion.
I'm going to ask you to raise your right
hand. Do you solemnly swear the information
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
you're about to give is the truth to the best
of your knowledge?
MR. BUTLER: I do.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
You're not an officer of the court and that's
the reason why I'm swearing you in.
MR. BUTLER: Okay, I wanted to first just
read into the record the letter, my response
letter to a letter that was given to the
Zoning Board from the Trustees to just
eliminate some confusion.
"Dear Members of the Board, I have
received a letter from the Trustees to this
Board dated July 27, 2010 regarding this
application. From the letter the Board
President stated that they are considering
moving the dwelling further landward from the
bulkhead and inline with neighboring
dwellings. It should be noted that after
meeting with the Trustee staff yesterday it is
apparent that this comment was generated in
response to the applicant's site plan dated
November 20, 2009, which I've attached for you
to see.
~'At the conclusion of our last Trustees'
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
hearing, the Board President made it clear
that when we come back to the Board be
prepared to discuss the option of removing the
seaward 14.2 by 22.7 two story area and
replacing it with the same size structure
landward of the main section of the dwelling
thereby effectively moving the dwelling
landward to be in better conformance with the
neighboring dwellings."
The proposal before this Board reflects
that comment and increases the main dwelling
setback from the existing of 19.1 to now a
distance of 30.1 feet. The proposed second
story balcony which is now on the plan is 27.3
feet landward of the bulkhead. Again, the
Trustees would not review this proposal until
your board completed its findings, which is
why they didn't -- they weren't commenting on
the plan before you, they were commenting on
the plan which had been previously put before
them and wanted to generate some thought on
effectively moving the house back by
reconfiguring some of the space, which in
working with my clients, the Fagas, we
effectively did and that's what we're
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
representing to you today.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: What else
would you like to say?
MR. BUTLER: Just Pat had clarified, the
foundation, the main part of the foundation is
still there in place. In working and getting
comments from the contractor, they've
established an approximate value of that
foundation to be $15,000.00 to remain in place
versus demo-ing it and reconstructing that
foundation somewhere else on the property.
We also -- I had read the neighbor's
letter yesterday and we had some files on all
the pieces of property in terms of the wells
and the site plan locations, we found that
Kevin's sanitary system is actually 173 feet
to her well. So his sanitary system is
actually in a conforming location with respect
to her well. Her own sanitary system I
believe is in a nonconforming location with
respect to her well, it's about 115 feet, and
I guess we'll discuss --
MRS. MOORE: Yeah, I wanted you to go
over the alternatives.
MR. BUTLER: Right. We've worked with
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some alternative locations for the house on
the site and I had also spoken to the
neighbors to the north who were very concerned
that the house was going to be moved to the
east and pushed back because that would
interrupt their view corridor, which we had
worked previously to try to maintain.
In addition to that, as you probably have
seen from the plans for this house, there is
no proposed garage on this house. The house
has to be self-compliant, which means we don't
have a basement, so we were always thinking,
and you probably remember seeing it on the
original site plan, that we had been in and
actually the one that is in the Trustees now,
plans for a conforming location of a detached
garage for future development of the second
phase.
The reason for that is there's no storage
in the basement cause it's going to be FEMA
compliant and everybody needs storage for
stuff especially when they're on the beach.
So that had not been part of this plan for
economic reasons, but we wanted to preserve
that ability later on on the site and again
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with that development we were aligning the two
structures so they didn't interrupt the view
corridor for the neighbor to the north and
that was kind of what locked us in to this
location. It's also if we were to take this
house as it is presently set right now and
begin to push it to the north we have a well
that's in place that we would lose and there
is a cost associated with that and again the
value of the foundation would be lost as a
result.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The
proverbial question is, excuse me, Ms. Moore,
what happened to the house?
MR. BUTLER: What happened to the house?
Renovation had begun to as you recall we had
had -- we were going to shave a couple of feet
off to be compliant with the Coastal Erosion
Hazard Line and take down that front structure
and build out to the east. The contractor had
started to do it. He had contacted me and
said that we're not going to be able to comply
with the building permit with the walls in
this house for wind shear in 120 mile an hour
wind zone; what do we do? You know, he says,
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we have to take this down.
I went back and read our -- the decision
from the Board and from the Trustees and I
mistakenly thought that we could take this
down to the top of the foundation as long as
we were preserving the footprint and the
foundation with repairs. When I went back and
read that decision, he had already done the
work. We got the stop work order, the call
from the Building Department that we were in
violation of the permit and to stop all work,
which was done. Then we went back to the
Trustees and the Trustees sent us back to
here.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Ms. Moore,
you want to continue this? Do you want him to
continue, because there may be some questions
from Board members regarding Mr. Butler?
MRS. MOORE: Yeah, go ahead and ask the
questions and then, you know, we'll go on.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Do you have
any questions of Mr. Butler?
MEMBER DINIZIO: No.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: He could show us the
proposed plan here --
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MRS. MOORE: Oh, the alternative?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yeah, I mean --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It's
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yeah.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Before we
get to that cause George has a couple of
questions.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yes.
MEMBER HORNING: I have a couple of
questions. Clarify again what -- you have an
attached survey of sorts to your letter we
also have the one in the file. They are
different, which one are we to be using?
MR. BUTLER: Right. The one that I
attached to the letter --
MEMBER HOHNING: Right.
MR. BUTLER: That was the old one that
the Trustees were looking at when they said --
that's the one the Trustees commented on in
their letter on Monday, which said we are
still considering the application, but I guess
are hoping to effectively move the house back.
MEMBER HORNING: Can you get another
letter from them then or not?
MR. BUTLER: This is the problem
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(inaudible).
BOARD SECRETARY: I can clarify that a
little bit. They've applied to the Trustees
with this new plan that we have.
MR. BUTLER: Yes.
BOARD SECRETARY: And they wouldn't take
it from them because they wanted us to make a
decision prior to them revisiting it in case
we give them alternative relief for what
they're asking for. They didn't want them to
keep coming back and forth, back and forth
between the two departments.
MEMBER HORNING: Another question then.
There's a note on the main survey, the one
we're considering. It says the existing
dwelling removed to the top of foundation,
foundation to be elevated so that structure
complies. Now, you're talking about
preserving the person's viewscape to your
north and yet you're proposing to elevate the
foundation how many feet?
MR. BUTLER: 8 inches.
MRS. MOORE: 8 inches.
MEMBER HORNING: 8 inches.
MRS. MOORE: Yeah. Unfortunately, when
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it comes to FEMA, we have to comply. The
state building code requires --
MEMBER HORNING: So three-quarters
roughly of a foot.
MRS. MOORE: Yes. Right.
MEMBER HORNING: And how does building a
two-story building with a one -- 2-1/2 story
building when there was a 1-1/2 story building
there, how does that improve the viewscape of
the neighbor to the north?
MRS. MOORE: Take a look at my survey,
you see that the house of the neighbor to the
north is actually positioned in the open space
on the east side of the property whereas our
house is on the west side of the property. So
obviously, they're not a waterfront house.
They expect to see a house, but it could be a
lot more intrusive if you put a two-story
house dead center -- if you did what our
neighbor to the west wants us to do, which is
shove the house as close to the front property
line as the Code would allow and increase the
setback to the bulkhead as much as could be
allowed or is feasible. It would really
impact the northerly neighbor because now you
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just visualize that that little survey from
the 70s really gives us the best overall
diagram. It pretty much takes the house,
shoves it and puts it right smack almost in
line with the windows and the doors and the --
and it creates -- you see a lot of that out
here with a lot of the properties that are --
that were cut up in the 70s with front and
back lots, they tended to have their houses
either staggered or in some instances both of
them on the same side so they created kind of
a common yard.
In this instance they were staggered
somewhat so that they would -- the landward
house would have as close to getting a water
view as was feasible given that you have a
house in front of you and a property that can
be developed in front of you.
MEMBER HORNING: Our job is to consider
the Notice of Disapproval and to grant the
minimum variances possible or necessary for
you to have something there and I think the
Board was a little bit jolted by the fact that
they gave variances and then those things were
like tossed out the window or something by the
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building being demolished completely. The
foundation really doesn't look like much and
to say that it's worth $15,000.00 is not a
whole lot of money really either.
So we're looking to have you build as
conforming of a parcel as possible and the
viewscape for your northerly neighbor is
really minimal consideration to myself and
maybe other people -- I mean you've got the
waterfront parcel, they don't, and whether
they can see the water or not is not our
obligation to meet, you know, for them. Ours
is to give you the minimum variances necessary
to have a single family dwelling there.
MRS. MOORE: I would, you know, I
understand your philosophy. I would
professionally disagree in the sense that the
standards of the variance allow the balancing
and the weighing of interest. So for you to
say give the minimal variance and I've been
seeing that in a lot of decisions lately, you
know, make it the smallest possible --
MEMBER HORNING: Um-hmm.
MRS. MOORE: -- but in many cases the
people that come to you are saying I pushed
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this and I've made it as small as humanly
possible, but I can't make it conform because,
again, the Code is written with Code revisions
anticipating a one-acre property. We have a
half-acre property, so we keep shoving more
and more layers of regulation and we keep
having to come before this Board for relief
because all these laws are laudable, okay,
they're wonderful in a perfect world where you
have a two-acre piece or even a one-acre piece
that allows some conformity. I would ask you
to please weigh in the interest.
We would like to keep the foundation
because we always intended to keep the
foundation and I put in my paperwork that it
takes a lot -- I don't know if you've ever
designed a house, but the sweat and the energy
and the -- it's not just the cost, it's the
investment that a property owner makes in the
design of a house, particularly a house, not
just an addition, but an overall house, it's a
great deal of effort and a great deal of time
and it was as upsetting to Mr. Fagan, I'll let
him speak for himself, because he speaks very
eloquently. He can express himself, but it
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was as painful for him after going through the
long process and the investment, emotional
investment on the design and here we are today
asking the Board, given the circumstances and
the overall character of the area, and the
property as it's been developed before the 70s
and probably prior to zoning to try to keep
everything a status quo. If the house is an
attractive well-designed modest, because it
certainly is a modest home, a modest home as
it was originally approved by this Board and
considered cause the Board would have been
looking at the same limitations at the last
board meeting where you were granting the
minimum relief possible, we have the same
plan. So the reality is that the contractor
found more deterioration than he had -- than
anybody and Jeff anticipated, but the end
result is it's the same house. In fact, it's
better because now we're not using the
footprint that was closest to the bulkhead.
That footprint has been cut off and brought
back another 10 feet.
So this plan actually cuts back what was
originally granted. So to that extent the
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applicant has had to expend the energy to
redesign, but to continue to push the house
back, again, I think it has other consequences
that I would hope you would keep in mind in
balancing the other standards not just the
minimumal variance necessary.
MEMBER HORNING: A couple of questions.
If the foundation continued to exist, the
basement, let's call it, what uses can you
legally use it for?
MRS. MOORE: Crawl space.
MR. BUTLER: Crawl space, that's -- no
legal use. No occupancy use.
MRS. MOORE: Are you talking about the --
MEMBER HORNING: Storage?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No, there
is no basement because for FEMA purposes they
can't have a basement.
MEMBER HORNING: Right, that's what I'm
getting at. I thought I heard something to
the effect that it would be the same thing as
having a slab there, a concrete slab.
MR. BUTLER: It would be.
MRS. MOORE: Yes.
MR. BUTLER: Yes.
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MEMBER HORNING: Is that right, I mean
you can't even store anything there?
MRS. MOORE: I think it's 3 feet, maybe.
MEMBER HORNING: Yeah.
MRS. MOORE: With flow-through I think is
the design, minimal.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I'm not
answering your question for you, but the only
thing you can do down there is run piping.
MRS. MOORE: Yeah, that's it.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That's all
you can do.
MR. BUTLER: And have access to it.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: And have
access to it. Yeah, in case a pipe breaks or
whatever the case is instead of putting it in
a cement tube.
MRS. MOORE: Right.
MEMBER HORNING: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: All right,
did you need anything else?
MRS. MOORE: Did you want us to show you
what the alternative would be and how that
might impact other factors or --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
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Quickly, yes.
MRS. MOORE: Okay.
MEMBER HORNING: I'll ask one more
question. Do you have any letter from the
northerly neighbor in support of or opposed to
the current plans?
MR. BUTLER: I don't. The first time I
spoke to them was yesterday when I was out
there and they came out and asked what was
happening. I told them, you know, what was
potentially happening. We probably could get
one for you. I don't know if it's appropriate
(inaudible) to do that, but they were in
support of --
MRS. MOORE: Our original.
MEMBER HORNING: You think so.
MR. BUTLER: I do, yes.
MRS. MOORE: You've just sworn him, would
you swear to those statements?
MR. BUTLER: Yes. That was the
conversation I had, you know, that's --
MRS. MOORE: It wouldn't be surprising
because you know --
MEMBER HORNING: The selling of the
property has no bearing on this? I mean
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
they're not selling out let's say because they
don't like what's going on or potentially
going on?
MRS. MOORE: Oh, Mr. Faga can maybe
answer you while we're passing around the
(inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Hi, Mr.
Faga, how are you?
MR. FAGA: (Inaudible) Mr. Horning --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Could you
just give us your appearance, please?
MR. FAGA: My name is Kevin Faga. I'm an
attorney, but if you like I'd be more than
happy to be sworn in.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No, not at
all.
MR. FAGA: I've had conversations with
the Hockils over the years and it's my
understanding that their desire is to relocate
out of the area and that's why they're
selling.
MEMBER HORNING: Thank you.
MR. FAGA: They had initially, Mrs.
Hockil had initially written a letter during
one of my previous applications with respect
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to the
what that's worth,
this trial at this
prior record.
importance of her view corridor. For
I guess it's not part of
time, but it's part of the
MEMBER HORNING: But they have submitted
nothing for this current application?
MR. FAGA: That I'm aware of, no.
MEMBER HORNING: Only the person on the
west?
MRS. MOORE:
we would ask --
Yes, to our knowledge, but
since we're asking for the
original approved -- the reissuance of the
variance, you can pull it out from that file
and incorporate it into this file. It's the
same plan.
I'll have Jeff walk you pass through this
because there were some things he pointed out
to me just where the existing is and --
MR. BUTLER: We took the footprint that
we have now to work with and come up with a
design that we're very happy with. I took it
and pushed it to the north and then pushed it
to the east. I couldn't go to the front yard
setback cause of the existing sanitary system
that's in place there, we can't interfere with
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that. We have to stay 10 feet from that and
that leeching pool has a specific location
because of the well to the east. That's, I
think, where it has to be.
MRS. MOORE: I'm sorry, elaborate on that
with respect to this application.
MR. BUTLER: Yeah, there was an
application on the property to the east for
Health Department approval and they were
granted a variance from the Health Department
for the separation distance between that
leeching pool, which is nonconforming, and
their own well. So we know we can't move it
any closer to their property. As I said, the
property to the west, it conforms -- it's in a
conforming location with respect to their
well.
So we push this back and we end up with a
51-foot 6 setback to this second floor
cantilevered balcony, a 55-foot dimension to
the main dwelling. What the applicant doesn't
like about this is it really destroys the
opportunity to put the future detached garage
up in a second phase, which we kind of feel
somebody is going to need if not him. So it
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kind of locks into that -- this in terms of
footprint and then also it changes that whole
view corridor. It chokes it off with the
property to the north. So I was just, you
know, we just kind of played with that a
little bit and saw what we were kind of boxing
ourselves into and weren't very pleased with
it.
The existing well, which is on the west
side of the property up against the side yard
setback, again, if we pushed the house -- we
could push the house further to the west than
you see on this --
MEMBER HORNING: I'm trying to find out
what this mark is right there.
MRS. MOORE: Okay, oh I gave you mine,
I'm sorry.
MEMBER HORNING: That's okay.
MRS. MOORE: No, that's -- you have to
maintain 10-foot separation between a well and
a structure.
MEMBER HORNING: Okay.
MRS. MOORE: So I apologize. I gave you
the one that I was going to use. You have my
notes.
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MEMBER HORNING:
number 10 and it
separation.
MRS. MOORE: Yeah,
just pointing out that
Ail right, that's the
referred to a well
you see that Jeff was
there is an existing
well. Again, all of the wells and sanitary in
this area are nonconforming in a sense and you
need Health Department approval to make
modifications to it. We're hoping the public
water gets extended, but we just don't know at
this point. So we have to assume that the
wells are going to be status quo. So you can
see that the well there and then Jeff
clarified for me, that's the note that's there
I've penned in, the requirement of the
separation between a foundation and the well
is a minimum of 10 feet. So I was also
looking at how could you move it towards the
westerly property owner and I guess you could
by maintaining a 10-foot separation to that
well, but then again it impacts ability in the
future to build a garage. So that doesn't
change with as you move the house towards the
front yard, the feasibility of the garage
becomes more and more difficult and the
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likelihood that you have to come to the Zoning
Board for a variance for a garage is very
likely and then you have the added
difficulties, which are having the Health
Department when you have a driveway you can't
have sanitary systems under a driveway. So it
even compounds to complexity of the project
even more.
So all in all what we have today with the
historic location of the house is the best
location given all of the other Health
Department issues and future structures and
storage structure issues.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm looking at this
(inaudible) parking and there's a right-of-way
there. So wouldn't you need a variance for
that?
MRS. MOORE: I asked Kevin. Apparently
when these properties were developed and the
deed was conveyed, I think Perry was the
original owner, he'll stand up and tell me,
but between two lawyers we got it figured out.
Perry was the original owner of the house to
the west and this property and I guess a part
owner of the pieces when it got subdivided.
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MR. FAGA: I believe Perry Hockil was the
owner of the northerly property and my
property and when he did that subdivision he
included the right-of-way. It's my
understanding, I've been advised by a title
company, that because the right-of-way was not
preserved when Mr. Hockil deeded out these two
portions -- these two parcels that the right-
of-way may in fact have been extinguished.
MRS. MOORE:
property now.
MR. BUTLER:
The one that's on his
You raise -- I think the
point you're trying to raise is we would need
a setback variance to move the house to this
location --
MEMBER DINIZIO: 35 feet.
MR. BUTLER: (inaudible) right-of-way.
MRS. MOORE: (Inaudible) front yard. If
it required a front yard setback, then yes we
need 35 feet from that right-of-way over, but
MR. BUTLER:
MRS. MOORE:
which we conform with now.
Yes. It's conforming now.
We don't think that in fairness I mean legally
it wasn't part of the Notice of Disapproval
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
because the right-of-way may have been
extinguished as Mr. Faga points out when the
Hokills conveyed the property out. Obviously,
there's a right-of-way to get to the main --
to the road, but there is no right-of-way --
it doesn't extend beyond the property line.
MEMBER DINIZIO: It goes down to the
Pat .
MRS. MOORE: Yeah. No, I understand.
MEMBER DINIZIO: And you don't think that
that is a right-of-way?
MR. FAGA: Well, I haven't challenged it.
It exists on the surveys. I really -- I don't
know that I necessarily care to or have reason
to question or to challenge it. It's just
something to throw out there that it may have
been extinguished. Certainly as far as we
know it exists.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I was just wondering how
would the person that lives in the house
number 1 feel about that?
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beach now.
MR. FAGA: Right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: For lot 1.
ASST. TOWN ATTORNEY: On your survey,
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MR. FAGA: I hope he'd be very happy.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Yeah.
MRS. MOORE: I mean at best it might be
converted to a pedestrian right-of-way to get
access to the water.
MEMBER DINIZIO: I guess what I'm saying
is or what I'm thinking is you would need
variance to put the house here anyway.
MR. BUTLER: That's right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's (inaudible).
You're asking for variances in one place where
it exists.
MRS. MOORE: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You still need
variances.
MR. BUTLER: Right, it would just be a
different -- right.
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's all I have.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, where
do we go from here?
MRS. MOORE: Any more questions?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The only
other question is you've given us this
particular interesting piece of documentation.
MRS. MOORE: The alternate plan you're
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talking about?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yes, the
alternate plan.
MRS. MOORE: Cause there's a lot of
interesting (inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah.
That's it, you know, we have the original and
we have this one and that's it.
MRS. MOORE: Yeah. I mean we've given
you the parameters of what we're dealing with.
It's difficult because you know any movement
of the house we're required to reconstruct the
foundation. We're using the foundation we
have, but if you feel, you know, weighing the
circumstances to say build a new foundation,
at that point you're moving -- if you suggest
movement of the house 5 feet or 10 feet, it --
we're putting a new foundation in at that
point. We just need you to tell us where.
I'm reluctant to keep drawing
alternatives because, quite frankly, we've
done that in the past and I'd rather just, you
know, it being more appropriate tell us what
our setbacks are and it's easier than having
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to design everything and then have another
modification.
MEMBER DINIZIO: So you're asking us vote
on this and then grant alternative relief
(inaudible) --
MRS. MOORE: If you must, we don't want
to be without a variance, okay, there's a
house there and we want to preserve that
house. First choice is keep everything as is
because as we proposed to this Board with the
application that is our top choice. Option
one is this house. After that --
MEMBER DINIZIO: Okay, (inaudible)? I
mean a reason for having us go over it is the
lot to the north has enjoyed that view. You
want to grant them the opportunity to keep
that view and your house is in that particular
spot and has been in that particular spot for
many, many years.
MRS. MOORE: Yes.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
Okay, that's --
MRS. MOORE: That's one, the other reason
was given to you as well, which is that the
future ability to put in conforming garage
would be impacted and certainly movement of
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the house could impact our sanitary and well
placement, which is complicated here because
of the lack of public water.
MEMBER DINIZIO: All right.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I guess
we'll ask this question of the audience, is
there anybody else who'd like to be heard
regarding this application?
Seeing no hands, I will offer a
resolution to close the hearing and --
MRS. MOORE: (Inaudible) the surveys of
the two neighbors, I could bring that over to
you tomorrow.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: -- any
other last minute situations regarding the
letter from the neighbor that you have not
included; if you so desire. Okay?
MRS. MOORE: The neighbor from the first
hearing? Uh, from --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The
neighbor with the lengthy letter.
MRS. MOORE: Oh. Oh, a response?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: A response.
I mean you've given us a response, but if
there's any other response that you have.
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MRS. MOORE: Okay.
MR. BUTLER: Absolutely.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay?
MR. FAGA: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We would,
you know, whatever Pat's bringing over, you
know, we need to have whatever you have or
whatever you choose to give us, okay? By a
week, we need it in a week.
MRS. MOORE:
need to answer an
raised, I mean --
Okay. If you feel that we
issue that (inaudible) has
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I'm not --
MRS. MOORE: -- (inaudible) --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I'm not
even eliciting it.
MRS. MOORE: Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I'm just
saying if you --
MRS. MOORE: Okay. Okay, well just so
that you have -- you already have in your
record her first letter (inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That is
correct.
MRS. MOORE: So we have that response and
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then the second letter (inaudible) we have
(inaudible) the first letter and a couple of
more things which were her concern about
sanitary and we put on the record that our
system to her sanitary is conforming.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MRS. MOORE: Did I say that right?
MR. BUTLER: Sure.
MRS. MOORE: Yes, okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Very good,
thank you.
MR. FAGA: Thank you.
MEMBER HORNING: Second the motion.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
HEARING #6344 - Theodore C. Martz, Jr.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, we're
opening this hearing; this is an adjourned
hearing. This is appeal #6344, Martz.
Mr. Pasca, how are you?
MR. PASCA: Good. Anthony Pasca, Esseks,
Hefter and Angel, 108 East Main Street,
Riverhead.
This obviously is a carryover from three
months ago.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR. PASCA: Bill Esseks was here, myself,
and we went through the whole analysis and we
reserved the right to respond to some of the
comments. I'm not going to go back over, I'm
going to presume you all remember even though
it was a long time ago. We did submit a
letter a week ago and copied all the neighbors
and Mr. Rizzo and, you know, we responded to
the comments about the trees. Pointed out
that we could clear trees, but that even with
the proposal there's not going to be some
massive deforestation that they were alluding
to, but we also pointed out that the original
back to back division, a 1978 division, that
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
this Board approved wouldn't result in the
loss of any trees cause it's leaving the
buildings in their current location and second
requires some switching around that would have
to be required by the north/south split.
So we posed that in a compromise effort
as an alternative to be considered and my
client's willing to go back to that plan to
keep the houses where they are. Renovate
them, but that will result in I guess what you
call a mitigation of that concern about the
trees. There is a primary concern. I think
that's where we are.
So we're okay with either one of the --
either the north/south split side by side or
the front/back split.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Do you want
to propose any specific changes in reference
to the -- Mr. Rizzo, do you want to come up
and listen to this along with Mr. Pasca and
there are some modifications he has on the
present aspects of it. This just eliminates -
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Can we let them come
up here and --
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Yeah, all
right. Come up here and show him over here.
Jim, you want to come over here and see this
since you're going to write this.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I'm looking at --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: I just need
for the court reporter, when you comment that
you do a small little -- this causes great
discussion when you run into questioning and
we're trying to take this down as you know
from courts of law.
(FROM THIS POINT TO THE END OF THE
HEARING THE TYPIST IS UNABLE TO DISTINGUISH
THE SPEAKERS' VOICES UNLESS THEY IDENTIFY
THEMSELVES SINCE MANY ARE NOT USING A
MICROPHONE. ALL HAVE BEEN INVITED TO THE DAIS
TO VIEW MEMBER SCHNEIDER'S PROPOSAL kND
PROCEED TO DISCUSS IT AT THE DAIS.)
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Well, foremost I'm
just one member here and I'm not speaking for
everyone. Okay? This is your latest
submittal (inaudible) in this fashion. Now, I
personally favor this configuration and I
would like to offer some type of alternative
relief to you possibly and this would be my
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idea.
To create an easement here, a right-of-
way easement the area of this would be
incorporated in this back lot. This would be
a flag lot and make both areas equal, okay.
lot?
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2:
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
ATTORNEY #1 OR ~2:
Excluding the flag
It's (inaudible), not
to complicate it, but to say --
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Let's go with this
first. All right and then this property
ingress and egress would be conditioned to use
this easement only, common driveway. The
reason for that being would be less detriment
to the neighborhood cause you share the common
driveway, which these two dwellings do now at
this time, the cottage and the main dwelling.
The proposal before that I saw would split the
lots this way with a proposed driveway through
here. Now, the present contour on this
property is very steep here and it slopes down
to this neighbor. I would think that may
cause some issues in the future, plus the fact
it would make another curb cut.
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So what I'm proposing to you, if you so
desire, is to create a flag lot, have both
properties use this for the only ingress and
egress and a precondition would be to remove
this cottage completely and then you have a
square building here. Also we would probably
write something into the appeal which would
not subject this property to another front
yard cause we -- if this is an easement for
this property, this would be another front
yard and this would greatly restrict this
property and if you ever wanted to put a
garage or something you would only be able to
put it in this square right here.
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2: Well it would be
(inaudible) side yard.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: No, it would be a
front yard cause if you have access to a
right-of-way that your property adjoins it is
considered a front yard.
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2: Even if it's just a
driveway?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: If you have access to
any right-of-way, it's considered a front
yard. If you do not have the access to that
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
right-of-way that adjoins your property,
considered a side yard.
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2: Okay.
could address that and then --
it's
(Inaudible)
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Well, I would like to
I would as a sole member, I would just put
that in the appeal so we wouldn't see you back
herein a year from now saying listen we want
to put a pool back here but we can't because
our back yard, our rear yard is this as
opposed to being this.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We could
also put some provision in there regarding the
removal of trees (inaudible) or something from
a (inaudible) standpoint.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Yeah.
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2: Okay, I think we're
going to have to play with it just to --
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Sure.
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2: -- see how it works,
you know, laying it out.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Um-hmm.
MEMBER HOHNING: Ken, you're suggesting
that the lot line be somewhere up in here to
make them more or less equal and this building
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to be eliminated --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
can go on a diagonal a little bit,
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
well, it
too.
Wherever the surveyor,
wherever, you know,
fine.
MEMBER MORNING:
demolished.
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2:
(inaudible) back here is
But this one is
This one can possibly
survive that.
MEMBER HORNING:
variance then, but --
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
UNIDENTIFIED: --
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
Well, you'd need a
(TAPE CHANGE)
Of --
the right-of-way
Correct, this --
UNIDENTIFIED: -- to both houses.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Correct and this would
be the only ingress and egress to both
properties so there wouldn't be another
driveway.
This one we're proposing, okay.
UNIDENTIFIED: Yeah.
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We need
your name.
MS. TESE-MILNER: My name is Angela Tese-
Milner and I own (inaudible) property.
(THERE IS A PASSAGE HERE THAT IS
COMPLETELY INDISCERNIBLE.)
UNIDENTIFIED: Right now there's one
driveway serving both houses, there will still
be one driveway serving both houses.
UNIDENTIFIED: Correct, but driveway now
is directly (inaudible).
MS. TESE-MILNER: My name is Angela Tese-
Milner. My other concern is you were talking
about the elevation of this property and it is
-- this particular property is on a hill on
both sides. You go up and it's elevated way
above my height and it's up and then it slopes
down to the water. So my husband's concern
was since you have larger houses going up
there, assuming (inaudible) because what you
have now are two basically cottages
(inaudible) there all year-round he's
concerned about the runoff. If you have very
large houses going up with cesspools and
swimming pools that you have considerable
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runoff and to the south because if you look at
the property it's almost like a wedding cake.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: The only
thing I can say about that is we do have a new
drainage law and you do have to contain all of
your runoff on the property. We don't build
swimming pools without having (inaudible)
areas, okay, number one. Number two, all of
the gutters and leaders have to be (inaudible
to storm drains. We don't -- normally we
write in there that you can't defoliate the
property without putting in place some
enhancement back into it, okay, to create --
so not to create a hazard as you are
(inaudible).
In reference to your particular question
Mr. Rizzo, we could have a tree line placed in
here within the condition, okay, so your
client wouldn't see ingress and egress
(inaudible). All of these things are
(inaudible) because we're dealing with a
virgin situation here except for one house,
which may or may not still be there. I mean
this one is definitely getting removed. This
one is either going to get removed and
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
rebuilt, okay, or it going to exist as
and be reconstructed.
it is
UNIDENTIFIED: Of course (inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Of course.
Of course. This is Ken's (inaudible)
presentation. I'm only -- I'm not accepting
it, I'm not rejecting it, I'm merely just
stating it because it already exists and
that's the main situation. Okay. The other
situation (inaudible) end up with (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED: I have a question with
regard to the removal of the cottage and it
just pertains to your --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Just state
your first name, sir.
MR. MARTZ: Theodore Martz.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
MR. MARTZ:
Okay.
I'm asking why you'd like to
is
see that removed. The reason I ask that
because I've heard the concerns of the
neighbors with regard to the trees and I know
this doesn't show anything, it's not like a
snapshot or a picture, but just a survey, but
this -- there was excavation done here. It
goes something like this, then it goes up
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rather steeply and the tree line is up in
here. If this were to remain, this could be
renovated and even added onto without the
necessity of removing any additional trees on
the property.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: (inaudible)
Mr. Martz? Excuse me.
MR. MARTZ: As a house which has a
certificate of existing use.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: So in other
words you -- that would be the only house on
the property?
MR. MARTZ: Oh yes. Yes, absolutely.
It's a one-bedroom cottage, it's a cute little
(inaudible). You would probably have -- and
then I would also wanted to make a comment on
the right-of-way. The right-of-way is fine
and this proposal that we've brought to you
today is basically what was approved in 1978.
You probably heard in the previous testimony
that for this, the longitudinal split, I
already have Health Department approval and in
speaking with Mr. Pasca and Mr. Esseks there
was a big concern over how the Health
Department was going to view this since these
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
parcels did not show on the 1981 tax map, but
in a subsequent conversation with the Health
Department they will accept a 1978 grant of
this Board. If we're going to have to create
a flag lot, that could be a totally different
matter with the Health Department.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It doesn't
have to be a flag lot, it could be an
easement.
MR. MARTZ: Oh, okay. Okay.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER:
question.
MS. TESE-MILNER: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Just tell
us your first name again.
MS. TESE-MILNER:
about that cute little
wondering whether that
Okay.
(Inaudible)
house is going to be a third house. Are we
talking about building -- two new houses and
then having -- or is this going to be the
second house?
UNIDENTIFIED: That would be the second
house.
MR. MARTZ: In all honesty I'm talking
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second house and I'm
cute little second
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226
about building any houses. I'm talking about
-- I'm really not talking about adding on to
this, this is just be spruced up, renovated a
little bit as will this. I'm really not
talking about taking anything down and
building.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
Just be aware that the restriction on this is
this is a one-family dwelling, this is a one-
family dwelling and that's just the way it's
going to stay and I assure you we hold
(inaudible) terms on this Board. These
covenants are going to be filed and that's it.
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2: I think what he's
trying to say is if we force the wall to move
a little bit this way which would force this
to go, it would create more disturbance than
if you just left it here. It might even be
possible to just keep this driveway where it
is and that is the access to this with an
easement. We'd create the legal easement as
well on the flag strip and basically leave
this alone, the whole back part.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That's
possible.
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MR. MARTZ: Most of this here is wooded,
but this driveway could come in as it is and
then just move forward to this low end because
this is cleared over in here already. So we
could just move this over and then come around
without very much difficulty.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That was
Mr. Martz again.
All right, so how will you work this out,
ladies and gentlemen?
ATTORNEY #1 OR #2: I don't know.
We gave you two options, if you want us
to explore that third option or 2B, whatever
you want to call it, we could I mean we could
talk to the Health Department, but I --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: (Inaudible)
an easement, an easement is fine. So you
(inaudible) --
MR. PASCA: (Inaudible conditions, you
know, reasonable conditions we obviously
expect that.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I would like to
(inaudible) try to give relief for the second
front yard (inaudible) you would be back.
(Inaudible) here you would be back before us,
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
so this way we
MR. PASCA: Yeah.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
would be the front yard,
(inaudible).
Okay.
Okay and then this
it would be
determined by this easement.
MR. PASCA: Right.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: (Inaudible) further
issues with that.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: All the
drainage issues that this young lady presented
here will be in place in this decision for any
future construction and the existing
construction would have to have the normal
drainage concerns today as they exist.
MR. MARTZ: Well, this entire front, I
mean this whole entire front is wooded and
there's brush and leaves and everything, but
there is no runoff. It's all -- anything that
comes down is trapped.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: You have a
CO on both houses?
MR. MARTZ: Yes.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: You do.
MR. MARTZ: On both structures, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED: (inaudible) site
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
(inaudible). Well that's a common driveway.
UNIDENTIFIED: Well, that's already
existing which is great.
UNIDENTIFIED: So we don't disturb -- we
don't have another curb cut on Broadwaters
Road. So anybody who's been driving down
Broadwaters Road for the past 20 years will
not see anything different.
MR. MARTZ: Again, what we showed in the
first proposal was just that, it was merely a
proposal. I didn't really have an intention
of building a swimming pool, but we do show a
possible swimming pool to maintain the proper
rear yard distance.
MEMBER HORNING: You're not entertaining
changing the lot line at all then?
this (inaudible)
of July 22.
MR. MARTZ:
think it would make it much simpler for us
terms of the Health Department.
MS. TESE-MILNER: What would be the
footage of the lot if you maintain the house
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UNIDENTIFIED: Well --
UNIDENTIFIED: Maybe we just maintain
proposed on this last survey
If we were able to do that, I
in
ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
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(inaudible)?
UNIDENTIFIED: This (inaudible) one would
be 40,000 square feet.
MS. TESE-MILNER: It would be two acres.
MR. PASCA: That's fully conforming.
This one would be 0.71.
UNIDENTIFIED: Actually, it's not really
an acre, it's conforming (inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: It's a
building area.
MS. TESE-MILNER: But there could be no
more than two buildings?
UNIDENTIFIED: That's right.
MS. TESE-MILNER: And what about the
building envelope? Right now you have --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well, the
house is already there. Mr. Martz has just
said that the house will remain on the front
lot. The cottage will remain on the rear lot.
MS. TESE-MILNER: And that's (inaudible)?
UNIDENTIFIED: That'll be determined by
the setbacks.
MS. TESE-MILNER: That would be
(inaudible) I wouldn't want a mega mansion on
(inaudible).
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VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: If that
were to happen, if you were to transfer title,
they would be back here anyway before this
Board.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Not necessarily. If you
have a side yard setback of 35 feet or
whatever it is, I mean that's in the Code.
That's what they (inaudible) can't have any
more (inaudible).
MR. PASCA: You could say that about any
lot in the entire area.
MEMBER DINIZIO: Right, this is --
MR. PASCA: It would be --
MEMBER DINIZIO: -- it would be
determined by (inaudible).
MR. PASCA: And this side slopes.
MR. MARTZ: And this side slopes very
rapidly in this direction. It wouldn't be --
the way this house is now it wouldn't be
feasible to build any further to the west, in
my opinion.
UNIDENTIFIED: It's a considerable --
retaining walls would have to be installed.
MR. MARTZ: It would be an --
(BOTH PEOPLE ARE TALKING AT THE SAME
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
TIME, INDISCERNIBLE.)
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well, so
what we do here is any enhancement or de-
enhancement that exists, you should probably
come up with in the very near future in the
way of a letter to us. Mr. Rizzo, you'll talk
to your clients and Mr. Martz said that the
tree line is there. He has no intentions of
disrupting that tree line, okay, nor any
access areas.
MR. MARTZ:
stone right now.
(Inaudible) have that set in
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: No, that
would be something that you would have to do.
You're not doing anything until (inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED: (Inaudible), let's assume
that they object. What is the -- what is your
plan in terms of how you would propose this
lot to be finished in terms of the driveway
and how you would expect the rest of the
(inaudible) to (inaudible) if we continue
along the existing driveway, is that something
that makes sense to you?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: He
(inaudible) the driveway closer here where
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
it's clear, excuse me, Ken, and come in like
this. That's what he would like to do or
(inaudible) the driveway in it's original
position.
MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I mean you have to
(inaudible) access to that lot.
MR. PASCA: I think the legal access
would have to be along the strip, that's
always how it's done.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right.
MR. PASCA: I mean I've never seen it
in the
done (inaudible) the legal access
middle of the property.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Any other
way, no.
UNIDENTIFIED: You could have a common
driveway, you know, if the parties could
agree. (Inaudible) this person (inaudible)
the driveway --
MR. MARTZ: I would like to leave the
legal access as it exists and then we could
work out a described common driveway access as
a secondary matter to indicate where the
driveway would go.
UNIDENTIFIED: But that's (inaudible).
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MR. MARTZ: (Inaudible) needed because
the trees are already there. Right in this
area over here where it seems to be the point
of contention there are evergreen trees and
such which are great
nothing else to do.
MEMBER DINIZIO:
for screening. There's
Let's say years from
now, okay, if someone wants to improve that
right-of-way, make a driveway and to get back,
they have a right to do it within those dash
limes. Those evergreens would have to come
out, would come out.
MR. PASCA: Depends on what line it is.
MEMBER DINIZIO: They have a right to do
it from one line to the other.
UNIDENTIFIED: They do unless you
restrict them.
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's what I'm saying.
MR. MARTZ: Wouldn't it be better to run
the driveway up the right-of-way closer to
this side, the westerly side of the right-of-
way and do the screening now?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Sure.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
MEMBER DINIZIO: That's what I'm saying
and it may be not necessarily that you have to
do it now, but --
MR. MARTZ: Well, we have to do it I mean
that's (inaudible).
MEMBER DINIZIO: We would describe in our
decision that this area has to be screened.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: That's
correct.
MEMBER DINIZIO: You have the pools --
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well, you
have to give us a landscape plan --
MR. PASCA: You could also -- (inaudible)
25-foot strip, if it was a 40-foot strip with
10 or 15 feet on this side as a buffer zone
you could do something like this.
UNIDENTIFIED: It would be just in terms
of a subsequent covenant that would be put on
to create the right-of-way --
MEMBER DINIZIO: I think you could leave
the driveway there so you could use that --
UNIDENTIFIED: (Inaudible) would be
included in this parcel's area and this
property would be given access rights.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
UNIDENTIFIED: Right, over that, over the
strip and if you created some kind of buffer
10 or 15 feet or whatever it was to not have
I mean (inaudible) the existing curb cut is
I guess nobody would want that to change.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Of course
I'd write it in the screening plan
(inaudible).
MEMBER DINIZIO: Right. So how
(inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Well,
(inaudible) we have a landscape plan from Mr.
Martz indicating where he was going to put it.
UNIDENTIFIED: I never really like to
have issues pending.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: All right,
so (inaudible) so
(inaudible).
MR. MARTZ:
it's all etched in stone
(Inaudible).
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Could we ask you to in
the survey plot this out as to the (inaudible)
here and (inaudible) some pertinent points so
the Board and along with others can take a
look?
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Right and
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
what other landscape plan you are anticipating
along of here of evergreens, proposing, and
send it to us and we'll send it to you and
then --
MR. PASCA: (Inaudible) him a copy.
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: will you
(inaudible)?
MS. TESE-MILNER: They sent me a copy of
the (inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: They sent
copies to everybody. All right, that's good.
MR. MARTZ: It seems though that you're
liking this better than the original proposal?
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: I personally like this
(inaudible) even though it's -- I would say
the shape is in more conformance to the
neighborhood, which it exactly is, but --
MR. MARTZ: Right. (Inaudible) it's not
MEMBER SCHNEIDER:
-- for many reasons
the topography of this particular parcel, the
location of this house and this is a nice flat
area, relatively flat, I think this makes a
better situation.
MR. MARTZ: I could agree with you.
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, so
the question is when can you do all of this?
Can you do it by September 23rd or something of
that nature so we can have you back to
finalize this whole thing?
UNIDENTIFIED: (Inaudible).
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: We're
booked up for August as we speak right now,
the question -- the sticking point is if Mr.
Rizzo's clients don't agree with it, okay, and
that's where we are. I think we put the
further provisions in the (inaudible) for more
landscape buffer along here, which is one of
the concerns that you had per your clients and
if we need to go a little bit farther with the
landscape plan, okay, and that's it.
All right, so let's wait and see and we
can reconvene the hearing on the September
meeting --
BOARD SECRETARY:
would be nice.
September 23rd at 1:30
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay, so
September 23rd at 1:30.
MR. PASCA: We'll get this done well in
advance of that so --
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
VICE CHAIRPERSON GOEHRINGER: Okay.
(Inaudible) the chance to (inaudible) so we'll
go from there.
We very rarely get down to the nitty
gritty like this, but --
All right, so ladies and gentlemen, I'm
offering that as a resolution.
MEMBER SCHNEIDER: Second.
(See Minutes for Resolution.)
(OFF THE RECORD)
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ZBA Town of Southold - July 29, 2010
I, Denise Gasowski, certify that the foregoing
transcript of tape recorded Public Hearings was
prepared using the required electronic
transcription equipment and is a true and accurate
record of the hearings.
Signature ~ ~\
Denise Gasowski
Agency Name:
Address of Agency:
Pugliese's Court Reporting
and Transcription Service
4 Saddlebrook Lane
Manorville, New York 11949
Date:
August 1, 2010
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