HomeMy WebLinkAboutTB-04/06/2010ELIZABETH A. NEVILLE
TOWN CLERK
REGISTRAR OF VITAL STATISTICS
MARRIAGE OFFICER
RECORDS MANAGEMENT OFFICER
FREEDOM OF INFORMATION OFFICER
OFFICE OF THE TOWN CLERK
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD
REGULAR MEETiNG
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
PO Box 1179
Southold, NY 11971
Fax (631) 765-6145
Telephone: (631 ) 765 - 1800
southoldtown.northfork.net
2.
3.
4.
MINUTES
April 6, 2010
4:30 PM
A Regular Meeting of the Southold Town Board was
Hall, 53095 Main Road, Southold, NY. Superviso
the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag.
Call to Order
4:30 PM Meeting called to order on April 6,
NY.
I. Reports
B ildi g D p
u n e artment
Judge Louisa P. Evans
Island Group
Special Pro
with
25, $outhold,
III.
quor Authority
Corps of Engineers
cations
IV. Discussion
9:00 AM - Dave Bergen & Laura Stephenson (PEP)
IV. 1 Dave Bergen - Emergency Dredging in Brushes Creek
Laura Stephenson, Peeonic Estuary Program - Rainscapes
April 6, 2010
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
Page 2
Trustee Dave Bergen appeared before the Town Board to ask for support in his campaign to
petition the Corps of Army Engineers and the NYS DEC to increase the dredging window for
Brushes Creek. Trustee Bergen explained that when the permits were re-issued this year they
reduced the window for opportunity for dredging to 12/15/09 to 1/15/10. Brushes Creek was
scheduled to be dredged just prior to 1/15/10, but they got iced in and could not dredge.
Traditionally, it has been dredged every year. He showed pictures of the creek filled in with
sand. This is why he started the process of petitioning to obtain an exception to the dredging
window. He has sent letters to the Corps of Army Engineers and the NYS DEC citing
navigational and environmental concerns. Letters also went to Suffolk County to Martin Trent
and Gil Andersen asking them to forward letters to the Corps and DEC and recommending to the
NYS DOS to approve the amendments to the dredging window for the permit.
The Town Board agreed to the Supervisor sending a letter of support.
Laura Stephenson, Peconic Estuary Program (PEP) Rainscapes proposal Arshamomaque Pond
Laura Stephenson of the Peconic Estuary Program advised the Town Board that she has been
able to secure several million dollars over the past few years for Arshamomaque Pond to
improve the water quality to a point where it can again be opened up to shell fishing the way it
was in the past. She has been working with John Sepenoski and Mark Terry and the Engineering
Dept. Re-directing the drainage from the areas on the properties to the road instead of to the
creek needs to be done. These are things that the homeowners should be doing but they don't
have the money. PEP would like to provide these services through a $100,000. grant the County
has for a RainScapes Rewards Rebate Program. PEP would like to see the money directed to
Arshamomaque Pond. However, Laura would like to see the Town of Southold administer the
initial application and rebates to the property owners after the projects are completed. She feels
the town could do it more efficiently locally. Maryland has a similar program and it is very
successful down there and they would like to try it here. The concept is very sound and it makes
sense. Councilman Orlando said that Mark Terry and the Planning Board already have enough
on their plates. The application is on the website and the town could give them the names and
addresses of the property owners to PEP and the County to administer the program. Councilman
Krupski agreed and said that is why he thought this project would be a better fit for the Trustees
to administer. Supervisor Russell stated that in the current fiscal climate people are losing their
homes because they can't pay their mortgages. Therefore, he doesn't think the town should be
administering grants to waterfront property owners for RainScape Gardens. Trustee President
Jill Doherty said that she called the DEC to ask them then they are going to come out and
sample this area. Laura said that they have been sampling. Road end run-off is a big problem.
Councilman Krupski said that if you stop the volume of water running off properties into the
creek, it will help to eliminate the pollution problem. He asked who would be inspecting the
projects upon completion. Trustee Bergen said that the Trustees are out there anyway, so their
ability to inspect and administer the rebates to the property owners would be much easier and
more efficient rather than from the County to the home owners. Their are 500 properties, but 354
houses. The reimbursement to homeowners under this program would be approximately $1,000.
to $1,200. The program would not be available to anyone who is currently in the permit process
for a drywell. Councilman Orlando asked if this is site specific to Arshamomaque Pond. Laura
replied that it is. Councilman Ruland said that increasing the health of the pond would be
April 6, 2010 Page 3
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
beneficial to all residents. If this money can't be used for anything else, it would be beneficial to
all to restore shell fishing in this area. The Board discussed it further and realized that it would
play right into the MS4 concept and the town will get credits for public education and
improvements. It will help to meet the requirements of the MS4 Storm Waster Drainage plan.
Laura Stephenson advised that she just wanted to present the concept today. Trustee
Bergen asked for a copy of the proposal for the Trustees to review. Town Comptroller
John Cushman would have to be consulted as to the feasibility of the town administering
the program and issuing rebates.
9:30 AM Ken Reeves
IV. 2.9:30 AM Ken Reeves - Potential for Soccer League at Peconic School
Ken Reeve advised that he has a request for the use of the old Peconic School field for a Sunday
morning soccer field. He said that all that would be needed is nets.
Supervisor stated that the Peconie School was purchased as a community facility for all.
The Board would not want to limit its use to another soccer league on Sunday morning.
9:45 AM - Jim McMahon and Jamie Richter
IV. 3. 9:30 AM Jim McMahon and Jamie Richter - Scavenger Waste Plant
It was a requirement of the original agreement that the Greenport Village site be restored to its
original condition at the expiration of the ten (10) year term from 1985. Supervisor Russell
advised that the Board established a capital bond a few years ago for the de-commissioning of
the plant and restoration of the site. However, they said to give more time to see if there could
be some beneficial use made of it before proceeding. But, they have come back and said there
does not appear to be any. The bid package for it was prepared back on January 24, 2005.
The Board met this past February with Chris Kempner and George Hubbard. The site needs to
be carefully reviewed to make sure there is nothing else that needs to be considered.
Councilman Krupski advised that they are going to closely follow procedure in this bid package
of how to handle the contractor's bid to make sure things are done he way they should be. Jim
McMahon suggested a bond in the amount of $725,000. to cover everything. Supervisor Russell
said that the bid would be let out first and then they will figure out what it will cost. Town
Engineer Jamie Richter said that the only coordination that will be needed from the Village of
Greenport is a Committee to walk through and consider everything so that there are no surprises.
He said that a "mandatory site bid walk through" must be part of the bid package. It the
contractor doesn't do it, then he is not eligible to bid. It is expected to get the updated bid
package back from MacLean Associates in two (2) weeks at which time it will be further
discussed. See Resolution number 2010-272.
10:00 AM - Peter Harris
IV. 4 10:00 AM Peter Harris - Money needs for equipment rental for Flooding due to heavy
rains.
Superintendent of Highways Peter Hams advised that Leeton Drive, Southold is flooded with 2
to 3 feet of water. It was suggested to asked Town Engineer Jamie Richter and DPW
Commissioner Jim McMahon to ask the DEC if there is any type of waiver due to the extreme
April 6, 2010 Page 4
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
conditions. The Town Board agreed to a budget modification in the amount of $20,000. for
emergency pump and flood mitigation related equipment rentals. See Resolution number
2010-292.
Kathy Eiseman, Nelson, Pope & Voorhis
IV. 5. Nelson, Pope, & Voorhis - Proposal
IV. 6. Mattituck corridor study
Supervisor Russell stated at the onset that he is not interested in the type of moratorium that the
Cochran administration did back in 2000. But, he is interested in working with the community to
fix some of the problems down there. We now have a resident who is sandwiched in between
two businesses. A transitional zoning classification needs to be created that would allow for
higher uses. The current General Business zone will allow things to happen that we don't want.
Crossover agreements should be developed. Supervisor Russell pointed out and spoke about
problems as outlined in his white paper - Mattituck Corridor Study. The Board has to look at
the town code and it effects. It is about allowing people to invest based on what is happening
around them. They have to sit down and develop something. The Town recognizes the right of
the businesses to be there, but cross over agreements are needed. Councilman Ruland stated that
these things should be part of the Comprehensive Plan moving forward and be the template for
the rest of the town. Supervisor Russell said that transportation committee should weigh in on
the traffic patterns. Chick Voorhis was present making notes and stated that he thinks he has
captured the essence of what they are talking about. NPV has extensive inventory on the subject
to review and garner insight from. Then they will make recommendations pertaining to all of the
town issues, such as site design standards, landscaping design standards. The overall
considerations in general, lack of green space, traffic and trucks. NPV has a traffic professional
they have been working with for a number of years. The study should cover from the Railroad
Bridge to Wickham Avenue. The Town Board set a 6 month time limit for completion of the
study with a 3 month review. See, Town Board Resolution number 2010-289.
Corridor Study & Zoning on Factory Avenue
Suffolk Towns Vs MTA
IV 7. Litigation - Executive Session
Expansion of Orient Point Mosquito District Taxing Authority
IV. 8. Expansion of Orient Mosquito District.
The district would like to expand the tax authority from $80,000. t $120,000., subject to a
permissive referendum, provided the Town Board has no objections.
The Town Board stated that they do not have any objections.
Deer Fencing in Residential Areas
IV. 9. Deer Fencing in Residential Areas.
ZBA Chairman Leslie Weisman advised that they have a pending application for a height
variance for 8 foot fencing around an entire property that has two (2) front yards. The public
April 6, 2010 Page 5
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
10.
11.
12.
13.
hearing was adjourned without a date. Supervisor Russell stated that he recognizes the need to
restrict access to the food supply for deer. It was suggested that this mater be taken up at a
Code Committee Meeting. A meeting will be set for sometime within the next two (2)
weeks.
Procurement Policy Update
IV. 10 Procurement Policy Update
Copies of the current policy were distributed to the Town Board to review and make
recommendations for any changes in the future.
Location of Town Board Work Sessions and Meetings
IV. 11 Location of Town Board meetings and work sessions
The need for technical assistance will be discussed with the Town Clerk and IT
Department in the future.
Committee Appointments
IV. 12 Committee Appointments -
This was tabled for two (2) weeks.
Historic Preservation Commission's Request for Engineering Services
IV. 13. Historic Preservation Commission's request for engineering services.
Jim Grathwohl, Chairman of the Historic Preservation Commission appeared before the Town
Board to seek approval for an engineering report on a house that is the subject of a hearing on
April 20th. The owners originally sought permission for alterations and an addition. However,
their architect is now maintaining that the foundation and some of the beams are beyond repair
and they are seeking a tear down. The Town Board agreed to hire an engineer to examine the
structure to determine structural soundness and potential historic significance. See Resolution
2010-291.
Motion To: Motion to enter into Executive Session
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby enters into Executive
Session at 12:10 PM for discussion of the following matters:
(1) proposed acquisition, sale, or lease of real property which disclosure may substantially
affect the value thereof.
IV. 15 12:30 PM Executive - Melissa Spiro, Land Preservation
(2) Employment history of a particular person
IV. 16. 12:45 PM Executive - Leslie Weisman, Chairman, ZBA
(3) discussion regarding proposed, pending or current litigation.
IV. 7. Suffolk Towns vs. MTA
April 6, 2010 Page 6
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
14.
15.
16.
17.
IV. 14. Southwold Manor
IV. 17. Litigation Updates - Scroxton; Clamos; Quad
RESULT: ADOPTED [UNANIMOUSI
MOVER: Louisa P. Evans, Justice
SECONDER: William Ruland, Councilman '
AYES: Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell
12:30 PM Executive Session - Melissa Spiro
Southwold Manor
12:45 PM Executive Session - Leslie Weisman, ZBA
Executive Session - Litigation Updates
Motion To: Motion to exit Executive Session
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby exits from this Executive
Session at 2:42 PM.
Town Board Resolution number 287 was added to the agenda to set date of Tuesday,
7:35PM. April 20, 2010 for public hearing for purchase of development rights on Demchak
property.
RESULT: ADOPTED [UNANIMOUSI
MOVER: Louisa P. Evans, Justice
SECONDER: Albert Krupski Jr., Councilman
AYES: Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell
Opening Statements
Supervisor Scott Russell
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Please rise and join in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag. Thank
you. What I would like to do is ask anybody that would like to address the Town Board on
issues as they appear on the agenda to please feel free, feel free to come up now. Melanie?
Melanie Norden, Greenport
MELANIE NORDEN: Melanie Norden, Greenport.
282, can you describe this in somewhat more detail?
I have a couple of questions. Resolution
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes. The CSEA maintains an employee benefit fund which pays for
dental, hearing and glasses. We administer that fund for the CSEA. The employees contribute
to the plan and what this basically does is it is like any other collective bargaining agreement. It
is a side agreement that requires renewal from time to time.
MS. NORDEN: And is there any increase of the benefit amount of, for the year stipulated?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I do not believe there is but again, this is a fund that is paid for by
April 6, 2010 Page 7
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
the CSEA employees. They contribute to their own plan and then they have their own
management company that administers it.
MS. NORDEN: And so the Town does not contribute to this?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I believe we contribute a little bit.
MS. NORDEN: Right. but the amount remains the same as it would this year. Okay, resolution
283, this kind of follows up from what Benja said a couple of weeks ago. I wondered if you
would consider in the resolutions in approving a full time employee, if you would also itemize
the benefit package so that in reading this resolution we can get an idea of what the actual
budget hit would be.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Point well taken.
MS. NORDEN: Could you maybe consider that in the future? Okay. 288, the corridor study, I
don't know if you think it is appropriate now to discuss what happened with respect to the
moratorium or would you like to discuss that at the end of the meeting.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let's discuss that, we are going to have plenty of time in between
the end of this meeting and the 5:30 public hearing, so we can get into more detail, I think.
MS. NORDEN: Okay. I will bring it up then. Alright.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Would anybody else like to address issues as they appear on the
agenda?
Gene Surdi, Suf Bureau Elect Insp
GENE SURDI: I am just acting as a messenger. My name is Gene Surdi, I am owner of Suffolk
Bureau of Electrical Inspectors. I received a letter today from the Suffolk County Electrical
Contractors Association referencing 2009-854 and if I may read this?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Please.
MR. SURDI: 'Esteemed Town Board, We are writing in opposition to the town resolution 2009-
854. As Supervisor Russell has stated in his comments to the said resolution, Southold Town
hopes that by hiring the part time electrical inspector to do electrical inspections in house, that it
will make the process a little easier for local applicants who have a hard time getting these
companies to inspect electrical work. There are seven electrical inspection agencies available to
the residents of Southold, as we have been advised by the Town of Southold.' So your building
department this morning sent over a fax of all the approved agencies within the town and on that
fax are seven listed agencies. 'These agencies are licensed by the Suffolk County Department of
Consumer Affairs, insured, have the International Association of Electrical Inspectors
certifications and are highly experienced. The resolution suggests that there is only one agency
now available, where in fact there are seven. Suffolk County Electrical Contractors Association
is of the opinion that the town's use of one part time inspector will severely limit the ability for
April 6, 2010 Page 8
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
Southold residents to obtain inspections in a timely manner. We urge the town to keep in mind
that at times it may be necessary to obtain immediate electrical inspections in the event of an
emergency. For example, an inspection is necessary and required after a house fire to restore
power for the homeowner. The certificate is by the Long Island Power Authority, LIPA, before
restoration of power is permitted. This could occur at time, day, night, weekends, holidays, the
seven inspection agencies currently on record provide these necessary services at a moments
notice. In addition, we are concerned because most electrical jobs require rough and final
inspections throughout the process, it is highly unlikely that one part time inspector will be able
to facilitate all applicants. Supervisor Russell had stated that this change would bring in $60,000
of revenue, approximately, to the Town and that it would cost only $25,000 for salary. However,
we greatly disagree. Has the town considered the cost of the application process?
Administrative and clerical work to process applications, provide certificates, handle consumer
inquiries or problems, scheduling and rescheduling of appointments, travel costs for the
inspections. This is a costly change for the town. While we are aware that the New York Board
of Fire Underwriters is now out of business, it is our recommendation that at present the town
continue to allow the seven qualified agencies to fulfill the electrical inspection needs of the
town's residents. It would be cost effective to both the town and its residents. It would also
provide resident consumers with timely service. Yours truly, Thomas H. (?) Secretary, Suffolk
County Electrical Contractors Association.' And I have letters to provide each of you. Thank
you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. Would anybody else like to conunent on any of the
agenda items?
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And sir, no matter which way the vote goes this evening, this isn't
something that we jumped into lightly without an awful lot of discussion and, not hesitation, but
didn't, we are not doing this, if we do vote for this, it wasn't something that was done hastily.
MR. SURDI: As far as the October 9t~ resolution, it was stated that there are approximately two
agencies and one of them is going out of business, I am going to get this to you. This is your
building departments list of certified agencies ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: As clarification, we had, certainly at the public hearing when this
was first addressed, there was a lot of good input and we took all of that input and went back and
asked the hard questions. I think there needs to be some clarity brought to the table tonight.
Number one, some of the information was incorrect but we still looked at the process
objectively. We made a decision to try this on a trial basis. You will notice the resolution ends,
the hire ends in December 31 at which time we will evaluate the program. The, I am pleased that
someone that you read actually signed something because most of the correspondence we have
been getting has been anonymous over the past few weeks on this stuff....
MR. SURDI: You couldn't read the handwriting or anonymous.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Anonymous. And also let me point out that the person we are hiring
is not personally known by one single member of this board, despite pleadings that we are doing
April 6, 2010 Page 9
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
this to create a job for a friend and not one single person up here knows him so, but I am pleased
that people are starting to put their names to things. That makes the process a little more
dignified.
MR. SURDI: Now that's, should never have gone unsigned. You should have gotten a good
amount that were signed.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I wish I did on a few of them.
TOWN CLERK NEVILLE: May I have a copy of your letter.
MR. SURDI: Yes.
Melanie Norden
MS. NORDEN: Just as a sidebar to that question, what is the differing impact for the consumer
with respect to what the fees would be to have the town doing the inspection as opposed to
private agencies?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We are anticipating $100 fee. Michael?
Michael Verity, Bldg Insp
MICHAEL VERITY, SOUTHOLD TOWN BUILDING INSPECTOR:
what is currently charged.
It is actually less than
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I think the standard is about $150, we are looking at charging $100.
MS. NORDEN: Great. Thank you.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: It actually, it will be re-evaluated, we will be doing the budget in
November, October, so it will be evaluated then to see if it will go in next year's budget.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: It also will be evaluated with local electricians. I mean, that is the
group of people that should, their input should weigh most heavily and we will certainly, after
trying this, go out and talk to them about whether they like this process better.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: And for the record, Mr. Supervisor. I do know the person being
hired but it is a small town, we know a lot of people that we do hire.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I know who he is but it's not like I went to his birthday party.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: I haven't been to his birthday party either.
Geraldine Surdi, Suf Bureau Elect Insp
GERALDINE DOWLER SURDI: Good evening, my name is Geraldine Dowler Surdi, I am co-
owner of SCEI. I have lived on Long Island for 43 years and we have raised our family here.
My husband's father, who recently passed away two years ago, passed away as an inspector. I
April 6, 2010 Page 10
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
am here to really ask you to think about this. We are a small business, we spend our money out
east, we come out, we go down Love Lane. We just, you know, had an early dinner there. I am
asking you to please reconsider this. Like I said, we are a small business, our fees start at $85. I
am the office manager. I spend many days in the office with those emergency phone calls. And
who you are hiring, we do know very well. We are not questioning Roger at all, by any means.
We are asking that you leave it in the small business. Like I said and my husband said, there are
seven agencies and we are all small businesses trying to stay afloat with our families on Long
Island and I am really pleading with you to please reconsider your vote tonight.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Do you know how many inspections you did in the last year or last
five years in Southold?
MS. SURDI: Not offthe top of my head but I would be happy to supply you with that. But our
fees do start at $85 not at $100.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: What do they cap out at?
Gene Surdi
MR. SURDI: Oh, it is irrelevant. We don't know, the cap can be whatever, if it is a residential,
if it is on square footage, the residential fees and all the agencies have a similar price schedule,
we have a square footage fee system for residential. Commercial applications have a different
fee structure. They have a baseline price and we take it from there, based on the amount of work
that is involved. Commercial applications have a different fee structure. They have a baseline
price and then we take it from there based on the amount of work that is involved.
COUNCILMAN RULAND: Mr. Supervisor, did we not discuss the fact that the homeowner,
property owner, business owner whatever was affected, had the choice?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I raised that issue. At the Board level, the Board determined that
that would defeat the purpose of hiring and creating an in house position.
COUNCILMAN RULAND: That is contrary to what we discussed today.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: With regard to this?
COUNCILMAN RULAND: Yes.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I mean ....
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I don't think so. I don't think we discussed anything about any
choice.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yeah, two weeks ago.
COUNCILMAN RULAND: Initially it was. Initially.
April 6, 2010 Page 11
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Yes.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Initially we talked about it. I don't think we came up with a
conclusion though. We talked about ....
COUNCILMAN RULAND: Well, maybe we ought to come up with a conclusion.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I raised the issue two weeks ago and it was at that point where then
it was suggested to us that then we need to revisit who is qualified to inspect in Southold Town
because of past actions or lack of actions that the town should have known about. Remember
that for discussion we had just about two weeks ago? You know, there, we would have to review
this list and decide who should continue to inspect and who shouldn't and that was in the context
of someone who asked for their money back, this is the whole discussion we had just two weeks
ago.
MR. SURDI: So ifI may ask, when is the drop dead date, if you will? When you guys are doing
inspections and third party agencies are cut off, no longer allowed to do, because we need to be
able to tell our clients, you know, I am sorry, I can't help you. Call the town.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Right.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: It is going to be immediately, if it is approved.
MR. SURDI: So as of then ....
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Tomorrow.
MR. SURDI: So if it is approved today, tomorrow start of business, we are shut down. Is that
correct?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I would ask the building inspector to address if there is a transitional
period in case inspections have already been ordered?
Michael Verity, Bldg Inspector
MICHAEL VERITY, CHIEF BUILDING INSPECTOR: Michael Verity, Chief Building
Inspector. There has to be some type of lag. To answer the question, I can't put an exact date
on it but anything that is open with the current underwriters, we will allow to finish. That is only
fair. We are not going to jump in midstream. So any new application that is coming in to us
starting tomorrow will be under, if it is passed, the new electrical underwriter. But you could
possibly go to the end of the year with some of the work that you have, you know, for...
MR. SURDI: For the outstanding ....
MR. VERITY: Yes, that is correct. Anything new, any new applications that come in as of
tomorrow will be technically under, it will be our choice to say okay, this is the time for us to
start the review otherwise we will allow them at least 30 days, 30 days worth of applications to
April 6, 2010 Page 12
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
continue on. Also, Scott, do you have a copy of the letter that was forwarded to you? That was
presented to Mr. Spota?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes.
MR. VERITY: Yes. It was a letter about underwriters and ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: It was about a specific electrical inspection company that doesn't
have the pedigree or the credentials to offer that.
MR. VERITY: And there was a lot of neglect in his activities and that is another reason why we
are curb that and go with an electrical inspector for the town.
Gene Surdi
MR. SURDI: Oh, absolutely. I agree completely. I have actually brought that up to Mr.
Verity's attention. I think you guys voted October 9th, I was here October l0th. I brought that up
to Mr. Verity October l0th. You guys are the watchdogs. We are your inspectors. If you don't, I
have got to be honest here. I was voted on your, through resolution, to be an approv, ed Southold
inspector. I had no idea what your actual mailing address was until last year. Every year I tried
to forward you folks my certificate of insurance to do the right thing. It kept getting rejected
because I am mailing it 39025 Main Street instead of a PO box. Did not know that. I did not
even know that your building department was in an annex building around the comer. When I
was approved in Brookhaven Town, they called me in the very next day. Let's go over policy.
Smithtown called me in, let's go over procedure. Huntington called me in, let's go over
procedure. Babylon, East Hampton, we were called in to go over procedures with the building
departments. Never got any phone call from Southold. No idea how to react to any situation so,
the point is, we are your inspectors. Every year we are supposed to be sending you folks
renewed certificates of continuing education, by law. And we are supposed to send you by law,
our certificates of insurance. It was getting kicked back ....
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: But yet you never called up to say, well, it got kicked back.
MR. SURDI: Well, I called several times for insurance. And I didn't know what to do with it.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Simply get in the car and drive out and drop it off.
MR. SURDI: I did. That is what I finally did. And that is when I got the actual mailing address.
I handed directly into the clerk's office and it was received and that is what we do every year.
Well, now we mail them out because we actually have the PO box. So the point is, we don't
know, you know, we need communication. So as far as this agency that is out there doing un-
certified inspections, you can run around for quite a while.
MR. VERITY: That is why we are trying to curb this now with an electrical inspector.
MR. SURDI: Well, that is why we are giving you everyone's credentials. When I give
credentials, I give a packet that is about half an inch thick of everybody's continuing education,
April 6, 2010 Page 13
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
everybody's certificates, all of our insurance. We can't be responsible for what one private
company is doing. But we are responsible for our company.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Alright. Thank you. Would anybody else like to address the Town
Board?
Melanie Norden
MS. NORDEN: Yes. Could you just address very briefly, the liability implications of this for
the town? If we are going to take on our own inspections, what kind of additional insurance
provisions have we discussed?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We don't have any additional insurance liabilities to the town.
Whether they review, they have included that as a new position, part time position without
change in cost. Whether they want to review that in the new year ....
MS. NORDEN: I am sorry, who is they?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We place our insurance with a couple of different carriers. And we
have, the renewal would be next January. They can always decide they want to renew our rates,
our liability rates and let us know when we do the budget, they will usually let us know what our
new rates will be in the new year in November. At which time, we can address it with them.
Again, this is a position that is going to last till the end of the year, so all of those things can be
put on the table for review.
MS. NORDEN: Right but you have to address it now if you are planning to do inspections
before January.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: There is no change to our cost in liability coverage.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Inaudible, commercial buildings ....
MS. NORDEN: Okay, so the same thing would apply for what you do now?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: What I am telling you, Melanie, is that there is no additional cost to
hiring him right now, no additional costs according to the insurance companies. No additional
costs. If they decide to review our rates, November, December, that is the time we can put that
on table as well. But right now they are saying no, they are adding it as an extra part time
position, just like the other positions. We are indemnified against all ....
MS. NORDEN: Gotcha. Okay, let me just also ask, I know that we have had a number of
discussions about code inspections and that the building department has been over-taxed in terms
of work, so can you address a little bit what kind of provisions we have made in addition to the
part-time inspector, have you looked at the impact that this new service will have on the
department itself and how you will mitigate the strains that have already been talked about.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: This is a completely separate position that will be in charge of a
April 6, 2010 Page 14
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
singular function, which is electrical inspections only. He will handle the volume. Again, if at
the end of the year, we determine that a part-time inspector can't handle the volume that is
created, that is why we are doing this on a thai basis. So for the time being, there shBuld be no
impact on the building department because we are adding that position, that professional, to do
all the inspections that we are adding to the plate of the department.
MS. NORDEN: And how about the paper work?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Welcome to town government, he is doing it all.
MS. NORDEN: Okay. I think that as long as the rates are consumer friendly and so I think that
is a really important factor. I don't think that people, it is great that the town is finding ways to
generate new revenue and I think that is terrific, I just don't want that to be on the backs of the
consumers. So as long as we have a competitive rate that we are offering and it is the same as
everybody else's or maybe a little less or a little more, that is one thing. If it tums out that the
consumer ends up paying considerably more than they would getting the service someplace else,
I think that is something we need to consider and rework in December. Thank you.
Josephine Surdi
MS. SURDI: I have another thing I would like to address. You said would not be any extra
costs, so are you saying that the inspector would be typing? Because if this is a civil service
position, inspectors should not be typing. Data entry or anything. I run the office, I know what
is...
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I run the government, I know what the union requires. I have news
for you, I do typing. Everybody around here, this is Southold, this isn't Brookhaven. If you
want staff support, you have to be willing to use word perfect because that is how it gets done
around here.
MS. SURDI: It is not just word perfect, there is a program that is involved that is a costly
program to implement.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I understand. Again, we have had all of these discussions, we have
had and the Board decided to, perhaps somewhat timidly, try it for a year and see what happens
and evaluate it after that.
MS. SURDI: I really hope you reconsider not doing this in town hall. Like I said, we are the
mom and pop small business. There are seven of us, there are not just two. There are seven.
Seven families.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Are you just, this may be out of line but do any of those seven
family inspectors living in Southold Town? Any of those companies?
MS. SURDI: Absolutely. Well, there are inspectors actually that live in Southold Town.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: But any of those businesses, residents of Southold?
April 6, 2010 Page 15
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
MS. SURDI: Inaudible.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I don't think so.
MS. SURDI: But we live a half hour from here and we travel east frequently. We stop here for
lunch when we are on jobs and hand deliver packets to the town when the call upon request. If
there is anything that they need, we hand deliver it ourselves or we will drop it in the mail within
24 hours. Thank you.
Supervisor Russell
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Would anyone else like to address the Town Board on any issue as it
appears on the agenda? (No response) Hearing none, let's move forward.
V. Resolutions
2010-263
CATEGORY: Audit
DEPARTMENT: Town Clerk
Approve Audit
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby approves the audit dated
April 6~ 2010.
Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-263 ,
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Seconder [~ [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter [] ' [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt ·
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albetl Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-264
CA TEGOR Y:
DEPARTMENT:
Set Meeting
Town Clerk
Set Next Meeting
RESOLVED that the next Regular Town Board Meeting of the Southold Town Board be held,
Tuesday, April 20, 2010 at the Southold Town Hall, Southold, New York at 7:30 P. M..
April 6, 2010 Page 16
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
[] Adopted
F1 Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye : No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [~ [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn
Chfist0Pher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt Albert Krupski .Ir. V0!ter I~ [] El []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
FI Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-265
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Budget Modification
Public Works
Cochran Park - Basketball Court
Fiscal Impact:
Special Recreation Facility - Park & Playground Funds
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby increases the General
Fund 2010 budget as follows:
Revenues:
A.2025.00
Appropriations:
A.1620.2.500.825
Special Recreation Facility $25,000
Cochran Park Improvmnents
Basketball Court $25,000
~' V0te Ree°rd ~ Resolution RES-2010-Z~S
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland : Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Tabled
[] Withdrawn Vincent Or!ando Seconder ~ [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt 'Mbe~ ~PSk! .Ir: Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] []
[] Town Clm'k's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] : [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-266
CATEGORY: Authorize to Bid
DEPARTMENT: Public Works
Cochran Park - Basketball Court
Fiscal Impact:
Use of park & playground funds to construct a basketball court at Cochran Park
April 6, 2010 Page 17
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs the
Town Clerk to advertise for bids for the construction of a basketball court at Cochran
Park, Peconic Lane, Peconic~ NY, all in accordance with the plans & specifications prepared by
James Richter, RA, Office of the Town Engineer.
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended ~(Ay~ N~y Abstain
[] Defeated William Ruland Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt A!bert Kmpski Jr: V~er [3 [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter
[] SupI Hgwys Appt
Comments regarding resolution 266
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: I vote no on that also. I just think it is too much and it is thc wrong
time for that.
2010-267
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Employment - Town
A~counting
Hire FT Food Service Worker
RESOLVED that thc Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby appoints Beverly J.
Norkelun to the position of full-tlme Food Service Worker for the senior nutrition program at
the Human Resource Center, effective April 7, 2010, at a rate of $25,917.12 per annum.
Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-267
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter r'vl [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded Voter
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
Comment regarding resolution 267
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me just clarify, that is not a new position, that is to fill a vacancy
created by the termination of an employee.
2010-268
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Public Service
Highway Department
April 6, 2010 Page 18
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
2010 Spring Clean Up
RESOLVED by the Town Board of the Town of Southold that the Highway Department Spring
Cleanup for leaves and brash will commence on Monday, April 12, 2010, in LAUREL and end
at ORIENT POINT and that the Fall 2010 cleanup will be for leaves only; be it
FURTHER RESOLVED that the Fishers Island Spring Cleanup will also commence on Monday,
April 12.
Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-268
I~ Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-269
CA TE G OR Y:
DEPARTMENT:
Close/Use Town Roads
Town Clerk
Grant Permission to Cub Scout Pack 39 to Close Bailey Beach Road and the North End of Inlet View
Drive in Mattituck for Its Annual Cubmobile Race on Saturday, June 12Th 2010from 9:00 AM to 12.'00
Noon
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby grants permission to Cub
Scout Pack 39 to close Bailey Beach Road and the north end of Inlet View Drive in Mattituck for
its Annual Cubmobile Race on Saturday, June 12th 2010 fi-om 9:00 AM to 12:00 noon, provided
they file with the Town Clerk a One Million Dollar Certificate of Insurance naming the Town of
Southold as an additional insured and contact Capt. Flatley upon receipt of the approval of this
resolution to coordinate traffic control. Support is for this year only, as the Southold Town
Board continues to evaluate the use of town roads.
~' V0te Re.rd ~ Res0iut~n RES-201~269
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Chri§!0Pher Talbot lnitiat0r
[] Supervisor's Appt
[] Tax Receiver's Appt 6!b~ ~P~k! Jr,
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-270
CA TEGOR Y: Att end Seminar
April 6, 2010 Page 19
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
DEPARTMENT: Police Dept
Grant Permission for Lt. Frank Kruszeski and SBC Donald Dzenkowski to Attend US Coast Guard
Conference
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby grants permission to Lt.
Frank Kruszeski and S.B.C. Donald Dzenkowski to attend the U.S. Coast Guard Law
Enforcement Conference in New Haven~ Connecticut~ on Wednesday, April 14~ 2010. There
are no registration costs. All expenses for travel to be a legal charge to the 2010 Bay Constable
Meetings & Seminars budget line- A.3130.4.600.200. Travel to be by department vehicle.
Vote R~ord - Resolution RES-2010-270
El Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No,Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Initiator El [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Seconder El [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter El [] [] []
[] Supervisot's Appt
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter El [] [] []
Voter
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans El [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter El [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-271
CA TEGOR Y: Budget Modification
DEPARTMENT: Police Dept
Budget Modification for Light Bar for New Police Boat- Police Department
Fiscal Impact:
· Money was not originally budgeted to place necessary lights on the newpolice boat.
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the 2010 General
Fund Whole Town budget as follows:
From:
A.3130.4.100.200
To.'
A.3130.2.400.150
Bay Constable Supplies & Materials
Gasoline & Oil
$1610
Bay Constable Equipment
Light Bars $1610
April 6, 2010 Page 20
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yea/Aye N0fNay Abstain Absent
[3 Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] : [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Initiator [] F1 [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talb0t Voier I~ [] FI []
[] Supervisor's Appt
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert K~P~k~ ~" S~pn~92 ~ [~ ~ []
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter
[] Supt Hl~w'/s Appt
2010-272
CATEGOR~
DEPARTMEN~
Consulting
Public Works
Scavenger Waste Plant - Engineering
Fiscal Impact.·
Accept the proposal of LK McLean Associates to up-date the bid package for the demolition of the
Scavenger Waste Facility, up-date the cost estimate and prepare 20 bid packages for a total cost of
$1,650.
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby accepts the proposal of L.
K. McLean Associates~ P.C. to provide updated bid documents and cost estimates to
decommission the Scavenger Waste FaciliW~ Moores Lane~ Greenport at a cost of
$1,650, all in accordance with the approval of the Town Attorney.
Vote Rec0rd- Resolution RES-2010-272
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] F1 [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt · ·
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Initiator [] [] · [] []
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter []~ [] · [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-273
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Budget Modification
Highway Department
Budget Modification - Highway 2010
Fiscal Impact:
The reason for the submitted budget modification(s) is due to the fact that the line item(s) would
otherwise be under-funded.
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the 2010 Highway
Fund Part Town budget as follows:
April 6, 2010 Page 21
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
To.'
DB. 5142.4.100.920
From:
DB. 5142.4.100.935
Snow Removal
Contractual Expense
Supplies & Materials
Sand
Snow Removal
Contractual Expense
Supplies & Materials
Rock Salt
$ 6,110.00
TOTAL: $ 6,110.00
TOTAL:
$ 6,110.00
$ 6,110.00
Vote Record - Resolution RES-20 t0-273
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amemded Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn
[21 Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans initiator [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-274
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Employment - Town
Accounting
Hire Roger Richert/Part Time Electrical Inspector
Whereas Roger Richert has now met the minimum qualifications for part time Electrical
Inspector, therefore be it RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby
appoints Roger Richert to the position of part time Electrical Inspector for the Building
Department, at a rate of $25.66 per hour, effective April 7, 2010, said appointment to end
December 31, 2010, unless extended after an evaluation by the Town Board of the revenue
generation and services provided during the time of this appointment.
¢~ Vote ReCOrd - Res01ution RES-2010.274
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Chfis[opber Ta!b0t in!tiat0r [] El [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
April 6, 2010 Page 22
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
2010-275
CATEGORY: Budget Modification
DEPARTMENT: Accounting
Budget Modification - FIFD 2009
Fiscal Impact:
For the final invoice for Engineering Study re: Elizabeth Airport
WHEREAS the Board of Commissioners of the Fishers Island Ferry District adopted a
resolution at their March 16, 2010 meeting to amend the 2009 budget, and
WHEREAS the Town Board of the Town of Southold is required to approve budget
modifications of the Fishers Island Ferry District, and
WHEREAS the Town Board of the Town of Southold approved part of the 2009 budget
modification of the Fishers Island Ferry District adopted by the Board of Commissioners on
March 23, 2010 and is required to approve the entire budget modification, now therefore be it
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the Fishers Island
Ferry District 2009 budget as follows:
From:
SM.$710.4.000.300
To:
SM 5610.2.000.000
Fuel Oil Vessels $8,000
Total $8,000
Elizabeth Airport, Capital Outlay
Total
$8,000
$8,000
Vote Record - R~aolufion RES-2010-27S
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay · Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [3 [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-276
CATEGOR~
DEPARTMEN~
Budget Modification
Accounting
Budget Modification 2009 Justice Court
Fiscal Impact.·
Cover over-expended part-time employee line and court reporter lines, both over because of more than
April 6, 2010 Page 23
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
one day per week of court; 3 part tax receipts for property taxes; legal books for the Justice Court
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the General Fund
Whole Town 2009 budget as follows:
From:
A.1110.1.100.400 Justice, P.S., Full Time Employee Sick Earnings $650
A.1330.1.300.100 Tax Collection, Seasonal Employees, Regular Earnings 225
A.1420.4.500.100 Town Attorney, C.E., Legal Counsel 900
Total $1,775
To~:
A. 1110.1.200.100 Justice, P.S., Part Time Employee Regular Earnings $150
A. 1110.4.500.200 Justice, C.E., Court Reporters 500
A.1330.4.400.100 Tax Collection, C.E., Tax Bill Processing 225
A. 1420.4.100.200 Town Attorney, C.E., Books 900
Total $1,775
~ ¥0te Record z R~0ifiiion RES;2010-276
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstaln Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn
Chri~t0pher Tali~t Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt Albe~ Kmp~ki J[: Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] : [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-277
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Budget Modification
Accounting
Budget Modification Orient by the Sea Rd Imp 2009
Fiscal Impact:
Appropriation needed for property taxes on roads at Orient by the Sea (taxes are for the period prior to
dedication of the roads to the Town).
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the Orient by the
Sea Road Improvement District 2009budget as follows:
From:
DB1.1420.4.500.100 Bond Counsel Fees $300
To:
DBl.1420.4.500.200 Real Property Taxes $300
April 6, 2010 Page 24
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
,Re. rd ~ Res~lut~n RES-2010-27~
~f~t~ William Ruled
Tabl~ Vinc~t ~l~do
Wi~ C~stoph~ Taint
Su~sofs Appt Alb~ ~pski
R~cMd~ ~uisa P. Ev~s
Tom Cl~k's Appt Scott Russell
Supt Hg~s Appt
2010-278
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Budget Modification
Accounting
Budget Modification CPF 2009
Fiscal Impact:
Budget over by .64 - rounding
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the Communi ,ty
Preservation Fund 2009 budget as follows:
From:
H3.8710.1.100.200 Land Preservation, Full-time Overtime Earnings $1
To.'
H3.8710.1.100.100 Land Preservation, Full-time Regular Earnings $1
Vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-278
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended ~`Ay~ No/Nay ,Abstain ,Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [3 [] []
[] Withdrawn
Christopher Talbot Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albea Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans initiator [] [] [] El
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-279
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Budget Modification
Accounting
Budget Modification FI Sewer District 2009
Fiscal Impact:
Cover engineering work (consulting, 0 & M reports, DMR reports) and sewer line clean-out
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby increases the Fishers
Island Sewer District 2009 budget as follows:
April 6, 2010 Page 25
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
Revenues:
SS2.5990.00 Appropriated Fund Balance $6,900
Total $6,900
Appropriations:
SS2.1440.4.000.000 Engineer, C.E. $1,500
SS2.8160.4.000.000 Refuse & Garbage, C.E. 5,400
Total $6,900
Vote Record -]Resolution RES-2010-279
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [3 []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt ~!b~ ~psk! J~: Voter [] [3 [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P: Evans Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-280
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Close/Use Town Roads
Public Works
Parking Lot - ROW Closure
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs the
Town Clerk to publish a Legal Notice in the Suffolk Times newspaper~ giving notice that a
privately-owned passageway located along the easterly proper .ty line boundary, of
SCTM#1000-102-05-3~ 4 & 9.6~ at Main Road and Griff'm Street~ Cutchogue~ New York~
for approximately twelve (12) feet to the property or land now or formally known as Old
Town Art & Crafts~ will be closed to the public for a period of 24 consecutive hours
beginning April 21~ 2010 at 8AM until April 22~ 2010 at 8AM.
Vote Record -Resolution RES-2010-280
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn
[] Supervisor's Appt Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-281
CA TEGOR Y:
DEPARTMENT:
Close/Use Town Roads
Town Clerk
April 6, 2010 Page 26
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
$outhold Little League Parade
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby grants permission to the
North Fork/Southold Little League Baseball & Softball to use the following roads for its
Opening Day Parade on Saturday, April 17, 2010, beginning at 11:30 AM: Recreation Center
parking lot, Peconic Lane and Carroll Avenue, Peconic provided they file with the Town Clerk a
One Million Dollar Certificate of Insurance naming the Town of Southold as an additional
insured and notify Capt. Flatley upon receipt of this resolution to coordinate traffic control.
Support is for this year only, as the Southold Town Board continues to evaluate the use of town
roads.
Vote Re~:ord -ResOlution RIGS-2010-281
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt Albe~t Krupski Jr. Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgw~s Appt
2010-282
cA TE GO R Y:
DEPARTMENT:
Contracts, Lease & Agreements
Town Attorney
Authorizes and Directs Supervisor Scott A. Russell to Execute the Renewal Agreement Between the Town
of Southold and the CSEA Employee Benefit Fund
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes and directs
Supervisor Scott A. Russell to execute the Renewal Agreement between the Town of
Southold and the CSEA Employee Benefit Fund for benefits provided to covered employees
for the period effective January 1,2011 through December 31, 2012, subject to the approval of
the Town Attorney.
,/Vste Re~0rd ~ Resolution RES-2010~282
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Xq~¢~t oflahdo Sec0h~r F~ [] F~ F1
[] Withdrawn ~Stopher Tg!bp[ yo~er [] [] ~q
[] Supervisor's Appt A!h~ Krupski Jr. Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hip~,Ts Appt
2010-283
CATEGORY: Employment - Town
April 6, 2010 Page 27
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
DEPARTMENT: Accounting
Appoint Amanda Nunemaker to Full Time Clerk Typist
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby appoints Amanda M.
Nunemaker to the position of full-time Clerk Typist for the Assessors Department effective
April 7, 2010, at a rate of $33,068.26 per year.
[~ Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [~ [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christ0ph~ ~aib0~ S~o~der ~ F1 ~ []
[] Supervisor's Appt A bert Krapsk Jr Voter V~ ID [] ID
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-284
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Committee Appointment
Supervisor
Appoint Jeanne P. Kelley and Michael Z. Herbert and Re-Appoint Nancy Pester to the Housing Advisory
Commission
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby appoints Jeanne P. Kelley
and Michael Z. Herbert to the Housing Advisory Commission, effective immediately through
March 31, 2013 and re-appoints Nancy Pester to serve on the Housing Advisory Commission
until March 31, 2013.
Vote ReCord - Resolution RES-2010-284
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent OrlandoVoter [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt Albe~t Krupski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scoit Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt HSw-/s Appt
2010-285
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Committee Appointment
Town Attomey
Amend Resolution 2010-225
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby amends Resolution No.
2010-225 dated March 9~ 2010 to read as follows:
April 6, 2010 Page 28
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
WHEREAS, the Town Board of the Town of Southold accepted the resignation of Richard
Ahman from his position as Commissioner of the Fishers Island Waste Management District
effective February 28, 2010 by Resolution No. 2010-186, adopted on February 23, 2010; and
WHEREAS, Mr. Ahman's term expires on December 31, 2012.
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold, in
accordance with the provisions of Town Law Article 13, hereby appoints Sarah Malinowski to
serve as a Fishers Island Waste Management District Commissioner effective February, 28~
2010 through December 31~ 2010; and be it further
RESOLVED that the remainder of Mr. Ahman's tcn'm will be served by an individual duly
elected at the next election.
Vote Re~ord - Resolution RES-2010-285
[] Adopted
[~ Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland initiator [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt ~
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scoa Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-286
CATEGOR~
DEPARTMEN~
Attend Seminar
Town Clerk
New York StateTown Clerkrs Annual 2010Annual Conference
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby grant permission to Town
Clerk Elizabeth Neville to attend the 2010 New York State Town Clerks Association
Conference at Saratoga Springs~ New York, on April 24-28~ 2010. All expenses for
registration, travel to be a legal charge to the 2010 Town Clerk whole town budget (meetings and
seminars) A. 1410.4.600.200.
April 6, 2010 Page 29
Southold Town Board Meeting .Minutes
~ Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended ~s/Ay~ N0~aY Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter g~ [] [] []
[] Tabled ~in~i ~iand~ ~iii~t&' 0 r~ r~ r~
[] Withdrawn ChdstOPh~ ~!~t V~ter [] : [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt Ai~ Kmpski Jr. ~nder ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
[] Tax Receiver's Appt
Louisa P. Evans Voter ~] [] [] []
[] Rescinded ~ [] [3 ~
[] Town Clerk's Appt S¢ot~ Russell Vote~
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-287
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Property Acquisition Public Hearing
Land Preservation
Tuesday, April 20, 2010, at 7.'35 P.M., Southold Town Hall, Demchak Dev Rights Easement P.I-I(
RESOLVED that pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 17 (Community Preservation Fund) and
Chapter 70 (Agricultural Lands) of the Town Code, the Town Board of the Town of Southold
hereby sets Tuesday~ April 20~ 2010~ at 7:35 p.m. Southold Town Hall~ 53095 Main Road~
Southold~ New York as the time and place for a public hearing for the purchase of a
development rights easement on property owned by Maria and Michael Demchak. Said
property is identified as part of SCTM #1000-84-1-11 and #1000-84-1 - 12.1 The addresses are
14380 Oregon Road and 22867 County Road 48, respectively. The adjacent properties are
located in the A-C zoning district and are at the southerly side of Oregon Road, approximately
725 feet east from the intersection of Cox Lane and Oregon Road in Cutchogue, New York. The
proposed acquisition is for a development rights easement on a part of the combined properties
consisting of approximately 24.6± acres (subject to survey) of the 33± total acres.
The exact area of the acquisition is subject to a Town-provided survey acceptable to the Land
Preservation Committee and the property owners. The easement will be acquired using
Community Preservation Funds. This project may become eligible for partial funding from a
grant proposal submitted to the United States Department of Agriculture - Natural Resources
Conservation Service (USDA-NRCS). The purchase price is $65,000 (sixty-five thousand
dollars) per buildable acre for the 24.6± acre easement plus acquisition costs.
The properties are listed on the Town's Community Preservation Project Plan as properties that
should be preserved due to their agricultural value.
FURTHER NOTICE is hereby given that a more detailed description of the above mentioned
parcel of land is on file in Land Preservation Department, Southold Town Hall Annex, 54375
Route 25, Southold, New York, and may be examined by any interested person during business
hours.
April 6, 2010 Page 30
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended ~ Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando ~nder ~ Fl [] Fl
[] Withdrawn FI [2 Fl
C~Ph? Ta!bot Voter
[] Supervisoes ^ppt 5!b~ Krupski j,_~ In~!~9r [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Louisa P. Evans Voter [] ~ I~ Fl ~
[] Rescinded ~ r~ Fl r~
[] Town Clexk's Appt Scott Russell Voter
[] Supt H~vys Appt
2010-288
CA TEGOR Y: Budget Modification
DEPARTMENT: Accounting
Budget Modification for Mattituck Corridor Consult
Fiscal Impact:
Additional appropriation for Chic Voorhis Mattituck Corridor Consulting
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the General Fund
Part Town 2010 budget as follows:
From:
B.1990.4.100.100 Unallocated Contingencies $5,000
To:
B.8020.4.500.500 Planning Consultant $5,000
vote Record - Resolution RES-2010-288
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated Wiiiiam Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Voter [] [] [] Fl
[] Withdrawn e~io~b~ T~ibot Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Louisa P. Evans Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded Voter
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-289
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Consulting
Town Attorney
Retain Nelson, Pope/Mattituck Corridor Study
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes Supervisor
Scott A. Russell to retain Nelson~ Pope & Voorhis~ LLC for consulting services in
connection with a Corridor Study for Main Road~ Mattituck~ in accordance with their
Proposal dated April 2~ 2010~ at a cost not to exceed $39~500.00 (Budget Line
April 6, 2010 Page 31
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
B.8020.4.500.500 - Planning Consultant), subject to the approval of the Town Attomey.
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/A~e .Abstain Abse~~
[] Defeated William Ruland Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Tabled
Vincent Orlando Voter
[] Withdrawn ~i~ph& Y~i¢;i Initiator ~ [] FI 'FI
[] Supervisors Appt Albert Krupsk! Jc: Voter ~ [] [] []
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Re~cioded
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
30.
Comments regarding resolution 289
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: We are looking at a six month return on this corridor study and
hopefully we will get an update on it at three months, which was asked for today.
2010-290
CATEGORY:
DEPARTMENT:
Budget Modification
Accounting
Budget Modification Historic Preservation Committee
Fiscal Impact:
Provide an appropriation for engaging.loseph Fischetti, PE for engineering work
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the General Fund
Whole Town 2010 budget as follows:
From:
A.7520.4.100.200
To:
A.7520.4.400.300
Historic Preservation, Plaques and Markers $1,000
Historic Preservation, Engineering Services $1,000
Vote ReCOrd - Resolution RES-2010-290
~ Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Initiator [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Talbot Voter [] [3 [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Kmpski Jr. Voter [] [] [] [3
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [3 []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] []
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-291
CA TEGOR Y:
DEPARTMENT:
Consulting
Town Attorney
April 6, 2010 Page 32
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
Retain Joseph Fischetti/Historic Preservation Comm
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby authorizes Supervisor
Scott A. Russell to retain Joseph Fischetti, P.E. to provide engineering services to the
Historic Preservation Committee, in accordance with his Proposal dated April 3, 2010~ at a
cost not to exceed $1,000.00 (Budget Line - A.7520.4.400.300 - Engineering Services), subject
to the approval of the Town Attorney.
v~ Vote Rec0rd ~ Resoluti0n nES.2010.291
[] Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended Yes/Aye No/Nay Abstain Absent
[] Defeated William Ruland Voter [] [] [] []
[] Tabled Vincent Orlando Initiator [] I~ [3 []
[] Withdrawn Christopher Ta hot Voter gl [] [] []
[] Supervisor's Appt
[] Tax Receiver's Appt Albert Krupski Jr. Seconder [] [] [] []
[] Rescinded Louisa P. Evans Voter [] [] [] []
[] Town Clerk's Appt Scott Russell Voter [] [] [] F1
[] Supt Hgwys Appt
2010-292
CA TEGOR Y:
DEPARTMENT:
Budget Modification
Accounting
Budget Modification for Highway Emergency Rental
Fiscal Impact:
Appropriate funds from General Fund Part Town contingencies to Highway Fund for emergency pump
and flood mitigation related equipment rentals
RESOLVED that the Town Board of the Town of Southold hereby modifies the 2010 budget
as follows:
General Fund Part Town
From Appropriation:
B. 1990.4.100.100 Unallocated Contingencies
To Appropriation:
B.9901.9.000.200 Transfers to Highway Fund
$20,000
$20,000
Highway Fund Part Town
Increase Revenues:
DB.5031.00 Interfund Transfers
Increase Appropriations:
DB.5130.4.400.300 Equipment Rentals
$20,000
$20,000
April 6, 2010 Page 33
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
~ Adopted
[] Adopted as Amended yes/Ay~ N~/Na~ Abstain Absent
[] I~f~ated William Ruland ~ ~ter [] [] E] []
~ Tabl~ ~t ~i~d0 S~d~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ wi*~ C~st~h~ ~albot Vot~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Sup~isor's Appt ~ ~P~k~ J~ ~t~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ Tax R~eiv~s Appt
~ R~c~d~ ~ S~ P Eves Vot~ ~ ~ ~ ~
~ To~ Cl~k's Appt Scott R~sell Vot~ Z ~ ~ ~
~ Supt Hgwys Appt
Comments made prior to public hearing
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Now, I just want to clarify, we do have a public hearing scheduled
for 5:30. I will ask anybody that is here to speak on that issue, we will be having a public
heating shortly. In the meantime, would anybody like to come before the Town Board and
address any other issue of mutual interest? Melanie? I am sorry, Hugh, you can go and then
Melanie.
HUGH SWITZER: Hi, Hugh Switzer from Peconic. I wanted to give you all an update and
some good news.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: We like that for a change.
MR. SWITZER: Yeah. I thought you would. Last week, the week before last actually, the
Group to Save Goldsmith Inlet sponsored another cleanup of Goldsmith Inlet and the purpose of
this one was to get the big logs, telephone poles, bulkheads, boats that were sunk, out of the inlet.
The county park sent a crew to cut for two days, all on the county park's property along the inlet
and then the North Fork Lawn and Tree company volunteered a crew on another day to cut on
the Peconic Land Trust and town property. Cut a lot of wood and then Bill Grigonis and the
ROTC cadets came over on Saturday along with the Group to Save Goldsmiths Inlet and moved
tons of stuff, approximately 30 tons of wood out of the inlet and put along the side of the road for
the town to pick up and we just want to acknowledge the county as well as the town and Bill
Grigonis and the ROTC for some great work. So that is the good news, we got about 30 tons
out. The other side of that coin is there is at least that much or more still in there and we are
going to sponsor another one in May, we are going to continue this process until we get it
cleaned up. So we just wanted to let you know that some good work is going on and thank you
very much for your support.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Thank you for your efforts.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you very much for your efforts. Also, I don't think enough
can be said about Bill Grigonis and the kids doing his ROTC program. I was actually in ROTC
with Bill back in high school, back in the days when it wasn't a popular program and he has
certainly done absolute wondrous things with it and with the kids. It is amazing. Amazing
group of people. Would anybody else like to address the Town Board on any issue? Melanie?
MS. NORDEN: After the meeting two weeks ago, I asked you about the possible application of
April 6, 2010 Page 34
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
SEQRA to the 7-11 and I think you mentioned that you had received an opinion from the
Assistant Town Attorney and I really didn't understand the issue. So I thought maybe you could
expand on it a little bit. There are concerns in the law, I will just read a short part from SEQRA
but it was the intention of the legislator that the protection and the enhancement of the
environment, human and community resources should be given appropriate weight with social
and economic considerations in determining public policy. And it goes on to state that
environmental factors are not the sole consideration in decision making, especially under
SEQRA and because we are removing gas tanks in a highly built up area, I would like the town
to consider looking more carefully and to offer a more formal opinion on the application of
SEQRA to the 7-11 situation. I think that the law, if you look at it, really stresses the importance
of safety, environmental, community, traffic, pollution, all sorts of other resources. Many of the
issues that people have raised over and over again. So could you explain the Assistant Town
Attorney said and why she thought it was inappropriate?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Ultimately it is the Planning Board's decision whether to create a
negative declaration or positive declaration on SEQRA.
MS. NORDEN: Okay.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: In that particular instance, it is an existing building with no new
construction other than refurbishing ....
MS. NORDEN: But it doesn't have to be under SEQRA?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I understand that. There is no substantial movement, no SPEDES
permit for DEC, no substantial site work. It is not a tradeoff of uses that are fundamentally
different from each other. It is a convenience store right now. What we are going to is a
convenience store that is simply better known and does more business. There was nothing there
that would suggest a pos dec would be appropriate in this instance. And again, it is up to the
Planning Board. Those social issues, those are very subjective issues. I don't ....
MS. NORDEN: But they are also issues that are outlined in SEQKA ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Inaudible
MS. NORDEN: As having equal weight. I mean, they may be social issues but they are issues
of health and safety and traffic and pollution and all of those issues are covered under SEQRA. I
mean, I know that it is partly a Planning Board ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Certainly covered.
MS. NORDEN: But my question to you originally was, after the meeting, was this at all
considered by the Planning Board in its deliberations?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I am sure it was and those issues are still part of the prospect, just
April 6, 2010 Page 35
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
because it was pos dec'd under SEQRA doesn't mean that the Planning Board can't consider all
those issues. I am sure they have.
MS. NORDEN: Well, okay. Some of us may think differently on that subject. In any case, in
addition, this is just a short opinion from the New York state office of general counsel,
addressing the issue. Under certain circumstances, how town's have managed to restrict certain
business hours with respect to 24 hours, it can't necessarily happen and you are right when you
raise the issue that we can't change zoning to restrict hours but there are other cases in towns in
New York state where hours have been restricted, in some cases because 24 hour services
provides too much of a drain on local police departments. So I want to give you this to take a
look at and maybe Martin can take a look at it too, and I want to encourage you again to consider
again the possibility of whether it might be a possibility to restrict hours and not have 7-11 open
24 and 7.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. I will make sure everybody gets a copy. Would
anybody like to address the Town Board on any? Benja?
BENJA SCHWARTZ: Good evening, Scott. How are you doing? Benja Schwartz, Cutchogue.
You lucked out tonight, I forgot my notes.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: I am sure you will improvise.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Sure I will. I was unpleasantly surprised this morning when the Peconic
estuary cooperative effort of many citizens and various levels of government, offered to bestow
$100,000 grant upon citizens of Southold Town and the Supervisor raised a red flag because as
far as I could tell, he didn't want to be given Southold Town to give the impression it was giving
money to waterfront homeowners who I guess, I guess are maybe, a lot of them already have
money or you know but ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No, it is not that I ....
MR. SCHWARTZ: Inaudible.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay, do you want me to explain now or do you want to wait and go
offon ....
MR. SCHWARTZ: I would like to try to finish up before you interrupt. The money wasn't
being given to the homeowners to go buy cigars or champagne or something, it was to make
improvements to their property, specifically things like planting rain gardens or putting in rain
barrels, projects that would benefit the watershed, the Arshamomaque pond watershed. I just, I
couldn't believe it, that we were going to have an opportunity to do something to make a
showcase out of the efforts to save Arshamomaque pond or to restore the health of the
Arshamomaque pond watershed and maybe the shellfishing there and the wildlife and that we
April 6, 2010 Page 36
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
would just turn that money down without even looking into it. The money was offered with the
proposal that we design a program similar to the RainScapes program, I think it was called, in
Maryland. And I looked into that, makes a lot of sense to me, but as they were leaving, as the
representative from the Peconic estuary program was leaving today, somebody asked her well,
what are you going to do? Southold doesn't want the money. She said no problem, we will go
to Southampton, they want the money. Reeves bay. I like Reeves bay, I have friends who live in
Reeves bay but I think that Arshamomaque pond would be a more appropriate place for those
funds to go and I think it supports a lot of things that the taxpayers are funding in Southold Town
and to turn down $1,000 to $2,000 per homeowner for 50 to 100 homeowners on a voluntary
program, ! couldn't understand it.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I raised the md flag in the beginning and this is Benja's forte. Benja
states a false premise and then goes on it at length about what was wrong with it ....
MR. SCHWARTZ: No, I wasn't talking specifically about you. I was talking about what you
said and I would appreciate it if you could keep it off of the personal attacks.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: It is not a personal attack, it is a fimdamental fact, Benja.
MR. SCHWARTZ: No, you are talking about my character (inaudible).
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: What my concern today was, we are talking about reimbursing
homeowners to plant water gardens for $100,000 in an economic climate that is brutal for most
people. People are trying to keep electric on, they are trying to keep food in the refrigerator.
They are losing jobs and we are talking about spending $100,000 for people to literally pay
people to plant water gardens. The, I came on board when Councilman Ruland suggested a
rating system, that would ensure that the money spent is the most effective means at keeping
Arshamomaque cleaner from runoff from houses. Further, we are making substantial
investments in road improvements, road runoff mitigation. I would rather that money go towards
those public issues, we have road runoff issues, I can see in the audience and I will give you a
show of hands in what they think of Navy Street. It is all over town and we are making every
investment we can. The notion of giving people grants to plant water gardens and the like in this
economy doesn't seem sound to me but again, Councilman Ruland came up with a very good
suggestion that would require a rating system so we could ensure we are getting the best impact
for the dollars spent on road runoff and lawn runoff mitigation.
MR. SCHWARTZ: So did you take down the red flag and put up the white flag?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes, I did.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Okay, thank you very much.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Especially Benja, with gardens out here, the deer probably eat
those gardens, too. We would rather see the leeching pools, with the rain in the gutter into
leeching pools as opposed to putting the money into gardens.
April 6, 2010 Page 37
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, the money is offered on a first come, first served basis.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Right, so we would like to (inaudible)
MR. SCHWARTZ: So if we want that money, I think we need to go after it, I am sure there are
native plants that are not attractive to the deer that could be used ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: They will eat anything, including poison ivy.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: If they would only eat (inaudible)
MR. SCHWARTZ: Yeah.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Would anybody else? Yes?
UNIDENTIFIED: Just briefly. Referencing what Mr. Verity pointed out, the Thomas Spota
letter, this agency was put on the Southold list probably 12'ish years ago, so nobody in this room
I am sure was aware of the situation at that time. I am quite, I am not 100 percent sure what the
qualifications were back then, if there was a procedure in place for what are the credentials of an
electrical inspector. I just wanted to bring that to the table and to thank you very much for
allowing us the opportunity to speak.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. And we look forward to discussing this issue again in
December, when it is time to re-evaluate the program. We are happy, we will keep the door
open for communication.
UNIDENTIFIED: As a business owner, you can count on it. We will see you in December.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Would anybody else like to address the Town Board on any issue?
(No response) Should we adjourn? We have about seven or eight minutes ....
COUNCILMAN RULAND: I wouldn't mind making a comment, Scott. It goes back to the
discussion Mr. Schwartz was talking about and back to this morning which was a lot of ideas
came forth very quickly in a very small room where people were crowded in there and the young
lady's presentation, which dealt with the betterment of Arshamomaque pond, after a short period
of time I felt that that was kind of going away and we were arguing about the merits of the
$100,000 and she made it very clear that the $100,000 was only available for betterment of
Arshamomaque pond and remembering back to when Mark Terry and John Sep and some others
and the young lady herself had made the presentation to residents of Arshamomaque pond area
last year regarding everyday practices that you could do that would help mitigate runoff into the
pond for we determined this morning and it is true, that the stormwater runoff from the public
rights of way is a major problem, not only from the road itself but from private property draining
April 6, 2010 Page 38
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
onto the public right of way but also the problem is certainly exacerbated by there are properties
where the water drains directly into the pond from the homeowners and if we look at these ideas
that came forth and we look at very simple measures that were pointed out that can mitigate
problems that grow more serious with time but if you institute these ideas, they will give a
payback over a long period of time environmentally, then, you know, I felt strongly at the time
and will reiterate that we need to look at everything that we can to return that pond to a shellfish
production, as Albert had said. And if you know, I agree with you in the point that many people
could take a newspaper version of what happened and say, well, we are going to give so many
thousand dollars to every homeowner who (inaudible) and that is the end of it and I certainly
don't think that's the way to go. There are probably parcels that could benefit from a project
along these lines and there are others that won't and by having someway to delineate and in
fairness to the Trustees who didn't know a lot about it, alright, giving them two weeks to look at
what the program is and how it would work and could they be the overseers I think was a
prudent thing to do and I don't think that in any way it should be construed that we were turning
down the $100,000. Every $100,000 or dollar that comes from an entity higher up comes with a
string. Some come with a string like a thread and others come with a rope that will hold an
ocean liner. And Mr. Supervisor, you were absolutely right in saying wait a minute because
everything you said is true but at the same time, if funding is available to help mitigate, it is very
much like the gentleman that spoke about Goldsmiths, and an ongoing thing that involves sweat
equity, it involves spending of some funds in a collaborative nature of a whole lot of things and
when it is all culminated, you have got something that you can be proud of. And I think in this
case, if the program is set up right, the residents, especially in Arshamomaque pond and the
residents of the town who can benefit when shellfishing could return, everyone would benefit.
That was what I was trying to say in a thumbnail.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: My issue was in terms of the distribution of....
COUNCILMAN RULAND: You are right.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: You came up with a perfect solution. For Benja to say also that we
dismissed it without even thinking about it is factually incorrect, I got the information about 11
days ago from Mark Terry. I re~/d all the supporting documentation, so, we are not as knee jerk
as Benja would have us ....
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And we are at the beginning of this. I met with Mark and with
Laura last week and we talked about the program and one of the sticking points is who would
administer the $100,000 and it is only available to people in the Arshamomaque watershed area
where the town has invested quite a bit in the last 20 years as far as water quality goes. Because
it is one of the most productive water bodies as far as shellfish goes. And so it is a continuation
of that. It is good to see the Peconic estuary program recognize that and support us in that, you
know, in our endeavors there.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: We just wanted to iron out a few details so we would get it right.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Well, I suggested enlisting the aid of the Trustees because
April 6, 2010 Page 39
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
basically they are familiar with this on an every day basis as far as drainage projects on private
property, and that is what it is. Small time drainage projects, and after all the rain we have had
lately, everyone knows the importance of drainage.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Well, that may be very well but I wasn't the only one that got the
impression that there was resistance and not the desire for becoming the recipient of this grant.
The concept of the Trustees administering these funds or being involved in the administration
may be not the best idea. The Trustees are, in a day to day basis, involved in regulating
waterfront property owners and it would be nice if they had some programs to help waterfront
property owners do things but I am not sure if they have shown a desire to be involved in that
way ....
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Well, that is what...
MR. SCHWARTZ: There are several environmental groups in town that might be willing to
help and .....
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: They would be involved anyway, that is what A1 said ....
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: But I suggested the Trustees because they have experience in this
size and this scale project, where they know how to review plans to say you are going to require
so many drywells, so many feet deep or in the case of the water garden, it is basically a swale
planted that is planted up with different species and it is a lower area on the property that absorbs
the water during a heavy rainfall and then allows for the recharge back into the aquifer. And so
they are familiar with these types of operations, these aren't large scale engineering plans for a
whole watershed, they are site specific for each individual property. You know, installation of
French drains, either for driveways or for gutter runoff.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Still, their perspective, their approach is they are very busy reviewing
projects proposed by homeowners to suggest legal requirements for mitigation and where this is
a program that would be there to assist homeowners to create a positive program to really restore
the health of our environment which I believe is what our economy is based on and I don't think
it is just the waterfront property owner who have an interest being the member of the public in
Southold Town, you have an interest in the waterfront and the waters offshore.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Well, this would be for anyone, not just the waterfront
homeowners in the Arshamomaque watershed, this would be for anyone in the watershed. So it
is people across the street from people in the creek, whose gutters, say the gutters go into the
driveway which runs into the road which runs down the road into the creek, they would be
available for this money also.
MR. SCHWARTZ: Good luck.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Thank you.
34. Motion To: Motion to recess to Public Hearing
April 6, 2010 Page 40
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
RESOLVED that this meeting of the Southold Town Board be and hereby is declared
Recessed at 5:30 PM in order to hold a public hearing.
RESULT: ADOPTED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Louisa P. Evans, Justice
SECONDER: Christopher Talbot, Councilman
AYES: Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell
VI. Public Hearings
4/6/10 5:30 p.m. - Amend Water Map/Browns Hills
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN, there has been presented to the
Town Board of the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York, on the 23rd day of February
2010, a Local Law entitled "A LOCAL LAW TO AMEND THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
WATER SUPPLY PLAN MAP EXTENDING A WATER TRANSMISSION MAIN TO
THE BROWNS HILLS SUBDIVISION IN ORIENT" and
NOTICE IS HEREBY FURTHER GIVEN that the Town Board of the Town of Southold will
hold a public heating on the aforesaid Local Law at the Southold Town Hall, 53095 Main Road,
Southold, New York, on the 6th day of April, 2010 at 5:30 p.m. at which time all interested
persons will be given an opportunity to be heard.
The proposed local law entitled, "A LOCAL LAW TO AMEND THE TOWN OF
SOUTHOLD WATER SUPPLY PLAN MAP EXTENDING A WATER TRANSMISSION
MAIN TO THE BROWNS HILLS SUBDIVISION 1N ORIENT" reads as follows:
LOCAL LAW NO. 2010
A Local Law entitled, "A Local Law to Amend the Town of Southold Water Supply Plan
Map Extending a Water Transmission Main to the Browns Hills Subdivision in Orient"
BE IT ENACTED by the Town Board of the Town of Southold as follows:
Section 1. Legislative Intent.
This Local Law proposes to amend the Town of Southold Water Supply Plan Map to include the
extension of a water transmission main to the Browns Hills Subdivision. Historically, the Water
Supply Plan Map reflects the physical changes in the water supply network since 2000. The
Suffolk County Water Authority and Suffolk County Department of Health Services have
represented to the Town that the groundwater quality of existing wells supplying the Browns
Hills area are inadequate and pose a significant concern that requires the extension of public
water to the area. The extension of the transmission main is intended to supply existing
development only and is not intended to result in additional development pressure in the area.
Section 2. Enactment.
Based on the goals of the Suffolk County Water Authority and Suffolk County Department of
Health Services to provide safe drinking water to the Browns Hills Subdivision, and upon our
consideration of the recommendation of the Suffolk County Water Authority and the Suffolk
County Department of Health Services, the environmental consultant retained by the Town and
April 6, 2010 Page 41
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
the public comments taken at the public heating, we hereby amend the Town of Southold Water
Supply Plan Map to include the extension ora water transmission main to the Browns Hills
Subdivision.
Section 3.
The Southold Water Supply Plan Map as adopted by Resolution No. 31 on June 20, 2000 by the
Town Board, and most recently amended by Resolution No. 2007-603, is hereby amended to
reflect the extension of a water transmission main to the Browns Hills Subdivision.
Section 4. Severability.
If any clause, sentence, paragraph, section, or part of this Local Law shall be adjudged by any
court of competent jurisdiction to be invalid, the judgment shall not affect the validity of this law
as a whole or any part thereof other than the part so decided to be unconstitutional or invalid.
Section 5. Effective Date.
This Local Law shall take effect immediately upon filing with the Secretary of State as provided
by law.
Further I have an affidavit of posting on the Town Clerk's bulletin board, we have an affidavit of
publication in the local newspaper, the Suffolk Times, on March 11, 2010 and from the Southold
Town Planning Board comments on water main extension to Brown's Hills subdivision. 'The
Planning Board has reviewed the above referenced proposed legislation and provides the
following comments: 1. The proposed water main extension is proposed to serve the Brown's
Hills subdivision, however, the Southold Water Supply Plan Map with the Suffolk County
Department of Health Services Amendments, (2009) indicates that the highest concentration of
private wells with impaired water quality occurs in and around the village: e.g. Village Lane,
Oyster Pond Lane, King Street, Harbor Road, Douglas Road, Old Farm Road etc...A second
identified area occurs within the Orient by the Sea subdivision. It is strongly recommended that
all improved lots which have been identified as containing impaired water quality be included as
priority service areas to protect public health. Correspondingly, these areas should be included
in the pending SEQRA action. 2. The project proposes that service connections to prospective
Suffolk County Water Authority customers are proposed to be free of charge, whereas in all
other sections of the town the substantial fees to connect to public water were required to be paid
by the landowner. How was this waiver of fees applied? Are the parcels that abut the New York
State Route 25 going to connected free of charge? 3. The Planning Board will reserve any future
concerns or comments on the extension of the water main to Orient until the environmental
review of the proposed action is complete.' We have not yet received the Suffolk County
Department of Planning letter as their meeting is not taking place until tomorrow. The LWRP
letter of consistency has not been supplied yet either.
JUSTICE EVANS: Chris, someone asked you to re-read the letter.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: This is from the Southold Town Planning Board, it was dated
March 25, 2009. 'The Planning Board has reviewed the above referenced proposed legislation
and provides the following comments: 1. The proposed water main extension is proposed to
serve the Brown's Hills subdivision, however, the Southold Water Supply Plan Map with the
Suffolk County Department of Health Services Amendments, (2009) indicates that the highest
concentration of private wells with impaired water quality occurs in and around the village: e.g.
April 6, 2010 Page 42
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
Village Lane, Oyster Pond Lane, King Street, Harbor Road, Douglas Road, Old Farm Road
etc...A second identified area occurs within the Orient by the Sea subdivision. It is strongly
recommended that all improved lots which have been identified as containing impaired water
quality be included as priority service areas to protect public health. Correspondingly, these
areas should be included in the pending SEQRA action. 2. The project proposes that service
connections to prospective Suffolk County Water Authority customers are proposed to be fi'ee of
charge, whereas in all other sections of the town the substantial fees to connect to public water
were required to be paid by the landowner. How was this waiver of fees applied? Are the
parcels that abut the New York State Route 25 going to connected free of charge? 3. The
Planning Board will reserve any furore concerns or comments on the extension of the water main
to Orient until the environmental review of the proposed action is complete.'
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay, what I would like to do is establish a few ground roles. First
of all, all comments and questions need to be directed to the Town Board.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: There is one further thing. We did receive over 80 letters of
correspondence from the residents in and around Orient. I am not going to read them obviously
but they will be here on record as part of the file.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We actually are not voting tonight. We have not received the letter
from the Suffolk County Planning Commission, no comments yet. The LWRP coordinator has
not submitted to the Board yet, there has been no SEQRA adoption by this Town Board. At the
end of this hearing tonight we will close the heating and, well, we will keep it open for limited
purposes and that would be to, again, accept SEQRA, written comments that anybody wants to
submit, the LWRP coordinator comments and of course, the Suffolk County Planning
Commissions comments. Now, what I would like to do is ask anybody that would like to
comment, to please come forward and also for the record, please state names fully and clearly so
the minutes are captured as accurately as possible.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: There are some seats up front if you want to sit up front. There
are a few available if you want to sit up front.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: One thing, one member of the public just asked if the speakers in
the audience spoke directly into the microphones so they could be heard on the TV as well.
FREDDIE WACHSBERGER: I would like to put this into a little historical perspective. I have
been around for a while as you know and what I want to emphasize is the long term commitment
on the part of Orient and on the part of the town to preserve farmland and open space in Orieni.
And it really goes back about 30 years because about then there were two applications that were
before the Planning Board that galvanized the whole community. One was to build a convention
center and 100 condos at Orient point. This was before the Planning Board, it was going through
the process. The other was to build a 55 house pseudo colonial village on Hallock farm. And
Orient suddenly realized that it would change the Orient community, suddenly realized that
Orient would have been changed forever. The only thing that defeated these two applications,
which were going all the way through, was the lack of adequate water. The lack of adequate
April 6, 2010 Page 43
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
water defeated these two and the town as well as the Orient community after that made a big
commitment to the preservation of open space and farmland in Orient because it was realized
that it was really the most important resource that we had. And Orient, the Orient community
has constantly reiterated that. I would just like to read from a 1994 hamlet study that was
sponsored by the town and in talking about the response of the Orient community, the Orient
hamlet. The report reads 'their desire to preserve existing open space, vistas, natural resources,
historic sites and the visual character of Orient, rendered it impossible to consider increased
density or new growth in the tiny hamlet' now the town also showed its commitment to
preserving open space for one thing, two acre zoning and five acre zoning was introduced at that
time and it was really essentially to preserve the aquifer that that was done. But the town, in its
zoning code, supports the preservation of farmland with very strong language. The statement
purpose and agriculture conservation and low density residential zoning says to the extent
possible, prevent the unnecessary loss of those currently open lands within the town containing
large and contiguous areas of prime agricultural soils, which are the basis for a significant
portion of the town's economy. Now, just last month, the comptroller of the state, DiNapoli,
published a document called the Economic Benefits of Open Space Preservation. And he
reiterates in this the point that open space provides much more revenue to the towns but keeps
individual taxes down but it is a whole, I mean, it is a huge document that he put out for this very
purpose. The importance of preserving open space. Now, how does this relate to this issue? In
the town's LWRP, it is stated that in reach 5 Orient and East Marion, of the nearly 593 acres of
land still being farmed, this is as of the publication of that document, 43 percent are now
protected from development. And that is good and it is largely because of what the town has
done in purchasing development rights and agricultural easements but it does leave 57 percent of
those acres unprotected and most of these acres are in Orient and most of them abut the Main
Road, which is the proposed route of the water main. We believe that until these acres are
secured by a tightening of the zoning code, the only thing standing in the way of development of
the significant acreage remains the lack of public access, water. The zoning in place has been
fine as long as we don't have public water. But it will be under incredible pressure if public
water comes in. So, we believe that the extension of SCWA water into Orient at this time
constitutes a direct threat to what the town and the community have agreed for years is our most
vital resource. The LWRP states unequivocally in the eastern portion of the reach, Orient, the
potential for new subdivision is high. It is expected that the recent extension of public water into
East Marion, up to the Orient causeway, will facilitate further subdivisions. So we agree that
public water will facilitate, it doesn't cause development, but it facilitates development. Now, I
know there is a lot of talk about the stimulus money and how important it was to do this right
away. We don't believe that the stimulus money is any excuse either to totally avoid
environmental protection legislation nor do we believe it is an excuse to rush into Orient before
these lands have been secured by proper and tighter zoning which you will be able to do new
consolidated and comprehensive plan. We think that that is essential to do, not to put the cart
before the horse but through a regular sequencing of the steps that need to be done to lead up to
the introduction of this public water. So what we ask you to do is temporarily table this law.
Temporarily. Until we have had the time for the Town Board to consolidate the zoning that will
protect the Orient farmlands and open space which we all agree and have agreed for 30 years, is
absolutely essential. Thanks.
April 6, 2010 Page 44
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you very much. Can I just please remind everybody, names
clearly for the record. Thank you.
VENETIA HANDS: Mr. Russell, members of the Board. I say not yet. Which is pretty much
what Freddie just said. My name is Venetia Hands and I am a member of the Brown's Hills
community in Orient. I was chosen by the Brown's Hills community last fall to lead our
investigation of the Suffolk County Water Authority's plans to bring water to us, that we read
about in the newspaper and to prepare our response. In Brown's Hills, we were unanimous in
agreeing last October that we did not want to be passive participants in triggering a development
boom in Orient. We also learned, from SCWA representatives, that Brown's Hills drinking
water that we have got right now, today, is purer today than it will be when SCWA brings us
water from East Marion. So to maintain that purity, we are going to have to maintain our own
reserve of (inaudible) filters that the water company keeps for us now. I wrote to Mr. Jones at
the time asking SCWA to please halt their project at least until it has been given proper public
heating at the Southold Town Board and a number of other things. Our letter received no
response and I sent a copy to you but I will give you another. But tonight, thanks to you, the
Board and some other activities, we are here having a public heating. I want to thank you for
insisting that SCWA request an amendment to the town water map before they go any further. In
doing this, you are asking them to do the right things in the right sequence. I also want to make
it very clear, we are not against clean water in Orient. We are not even saying no to this
pipeline. We are saying not yet. We are asking, as Freddie just said, you to table this
amendment to the water map until everything that should be done first has been done. That is:
first, before anyone digs a hole where it says dig here by Dam Pond, all environmental reviews
and permits that should be done, are done and verified. As of Monday, the Army Corps of
Engineers still has not received a request from the water company to extend the pipeline all the
way to Brown's Hills and they have to get one. They haven't even asked. Secondly, as Freddie
was saying, we need more protections in Orient to ensure a water main does not trigger
development. Bob De Luca, who is president of Group for the East End and is very well
respected figure, came to see us earlier this year and he explained that Orient is particularly
vulnerable to development because we have only have this one protection which is lack of
adequate groundwater. Bring in water, that goes. What he pointed out to us was that other areas
have a list of protections. So if one goes, they have got others. Mr. Jones has tightly told us that
the water company is not here to protect us from development, it is us and you who have to do
that. But what we would like to do and you are just going to hear this again and again, is get
those protections put in place in this comprehensive plan, finally through, so that we have more
things in place than just this fragile water. The third thing I want to say is that every resident of
Orient should be canvassed as to whether they want SCWA water. That means all 700 plus
residents, although I am told it is getting closer to 900 since the last census, we will find out
soon, not just the 100 or so houses along the pipeline route. When I was here a number of weeks
ago with Mr. Jones and you asked him to canvass Orient residents, I believed you were saying all
700. In fact, they have only canvassed people along the pipeline. It is sort of another way in
which they just give an inch to us all the time with out sort of whole heartedly embracing what I
would hope from an organization that is here for the public benefit. And we know, and you said,
they clearly want to go beyond Brown's Hills, they clearly want to go beyond the Main Road. In
fact, we are hearing from the Planning Department, they need to go down the village, they need
April 6, 2010 Page 45
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
to get out to Orient Point. And it just does not make sense to spend something in the region of
$25,000 per house on what they are telling us they are going to do and what they told New York
State in application for these funds was all of Orient, 700 homes. So I believe the survey should
be of all of Orient. So I am nearly done, you will be glad to know. We want clean water for
everyone; please don't make anybody characterize us in any other way. Our concerns are with
doing the right thing, in the right sequence; we ask you to table this law until those steps can
been fulfilled. We are not saying no pipeline, we are saying not yet. Thank you very much.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you.
CAROLINE SILVERSTONE: Good evening Supervisor Russell and members of the Town
Board. My name is Caroline Silverstone and I am reading a statement on behalf of my husband,
David Silverstone, a copy of this has been filed with the town Supervisor's office. 'I was
stunned to read the SCWA "survey" sent out to homeowners concerning the water main they
intend to install along Main Road to the Brown's Hills pump station. I was also surprised to read
that they could supply this water to any existing business establishments along this route. To the
best of my knowledge, there are only two businesses along this route at the present time. I do
not think of the Orient Congregational church as a business or the school for that matter. I fully
understand the Town Board's request for a survey of homeowners along this extension route.
The town board needs to know how much current and future demand there may be for public
water provided by SCWA. However, the survey sent out by Mr. Stephen Jones, CEO of the
Suffolk County Water Authority is not a survey in the true sense of the word. As someone who
has designed and directed marketing research studies all over the world for more than 40 years
for McCann-Erickson Worldwide and its premier clients, the first order of conducting a survey is
to insure that it is 100% fair and objective. This survey by the SCWA is neither fair nor
objective. It is pure sales promotion. Please allow me to explain why it is not a legitimate
survey. It promotes no less than nine benefits of signing up for public water from SCWA. Some
of the contents in the nine benefits are not entirely accurate. 1. There is no assurance of an
increase in property values. Indeed, if the availability of public water encourages more real
estate or business development, property values would most likely decline. 2. Saving money.
This benefit is loaded with assumptions. The leading one concerns bottled water. Significantly
more than half of Americans drink bottled water, despite their use of public water. Sales of
bottled water have more than tripled in the last ten years and they are continuing to grow.
Bottled water is regulated and required by law to meet standards of purity. More and more
Americans do not trust the water that flows from their taps from public water utilities.
Furthermore, people buy and drink bottled water for many reasons, not just their distrust of the
water that flows from their taps. That includes both affluent and people who are by no means
affluent. 3. Many homes along this extension route maintain generators to supply electricity to
their well water supply in the event of a power outage. Furthermore, many homes either use
whole house water filter systems or no less than ten other relatively simple commercial brands of
purifying their water from their wells. These brands and whole house systems meet or exceed
quality national standards of water purity. The promotion of benefits from SCWA does not
mention the cost to the homeowner of tapping into the water supply that SCWA wants to
provide. It fails to make it clear that homeowners may have to spend from $2,500 to $5,000 or
more to change their main plumbing supply lines leading from the SCWA line and inside of their
April 6, 2010 Page 46
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
own homes. It does appear this evening that there is some question as to whether there will be a
break for people signing on immediately. Nor does it dare to mention that common whole house
supplies of filtered water certified by both the UL (Underwriters Laboratory) and the NSF can be
installed for much less money and cost as little as $18 per month to as much as $60 a month for
fully filtered water that removes particulates down to 5 or 10 microns. Last but far from least, all
one has to do to confirm that development follows the installation of public supply water lines is
to do the research on any of the intemet browsers. Real estate developers and real estate brokers
and those who benefit from them will be the first to vehemently deny that troth. I grew up on
Long Island. I watched with considerable dismay as farms less than a mile from my home turned
into high density housing communities. I am fully aware of the fact that the Town Board faces a
difficult set of demands from those who want the SCWA water supply and those who are
desperately trying to maintain our quality of life east of the causeway. Orient is probably the last
community in Suffolk County to enjoy a peaceful way of life without the housing density of the
south fork and western Suffolk, to say nothing of Nassau County. People are moving from the
south fork to the north fork to escape the interminable traffic and growing population density.
What SCWA has sent out is not a survey. It is pure sales promotion. One certainly has to
compliment their aggressive style of getting more business for the product they want to supply.
But their survey of prospective demand is simply not honest. The results of this survey may very
well give you grossly misleading information. Signed David and Caroline Silverstone. PS: Lest
you and the Board think I am just a summer visitor, my family has been visiting Orient since
1938. My mother bought the house at 20615 Main Road in 1956 and my daughter and her
family will inherit the property. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you.
SUE MELAMUD: Good evening Supervisor Russell and the Board. Thank you for the
opportunity to speak on this important issue. My name is Sue Melamud and my husband and I
own a home in East Marion, we are all the way at the end of the causeway, just before the Orient
border. We have owned our home since 1998 and we plan on being here quite a long time, we
love it. We love the privacy, the peace and certainly are not in favor of developing. I am also a
professional engineer, I am an environmental engineer, board certified and I am a professional
planner so I would like to speak on this issue from several perspectives to you tonight. First I
would like to speak to you as a homeowner. Our home is on a well and I brought with me the ·
results of our water test which I just had done last week. And I test my water every year, it is at
great expense to do so but we are tracking our water quality. I am very familiar with the state
water standards and our water has been deteriorating in quality for quite some time. This
particular year, we found methyl-(inaudible) ether in it which is mtbe, it is a gasoline by product,
most likely comes into the water from leaking underground storage tanks, I know that has been
found elsewhere in the area and this was the first time we found it in our well. We also found,
we know we have high levels of iron, in fact we do have a treatment system in our home. And
that treatment system if it fails, which it has done twice due to freeze ups in the winter, results in
our having to replace all of the plumbing in our home. We have had to do that several times,
from the kicking of the little iron particles when the iron oxidizes in the water. We have
extremely high iron. We also have an increasing amount of nitrates. Nitrates cause a disease in
people related to the blood, it can lead to cancer, it can lead to gastric issues. We have seen our
April 6, 2010 Page 47
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
nitrates level increase over the years. And we have also seen our chloride level. Chlorides, is
very interesting because chlorides are an indication of salt water intrusion and we have a very
fragile thin lens of water that we all draw from. The more that we draw, which is another reason
that I am not in favor of development or over-development, with the mom water that we draw,
the more of the salt from the surrounding area that we can draw into this water and so we can be
polluting our water the more that we draw. When you have a home system like the reverse
osmosis unit that many people have, I don't have that, I have a hardness removal unit that takes
out my iron, these are not friendly to the environment. First of all, my system has to be
backwashed at least once a week, if not more frequently, that water which is a briny, salty water
with all of the iron removed from it, goes right back into the ground. Where does that go? It
goes into the groundwater. So over time, we are polluting ourselves with these home systems.
In addition, the reverse osmosis, I am not sure if people are aware of it but for every gallon
produced, you lose half a gallon. So there is a 50 % reject, again of a very salty, briny polluted
water, back into the ground. And so we are continually polluting our fragile lens of water the
more that we use these home filter systems. So they are not very environmentally friendly. Now
speaking as an environmental engineer, I would like to talk about the many advantages that
public water has and then we can talk about what some of the disadvantages are. I would like
you to see the whole picture. Certainly long term improved health effects, if I could say that
once, I would say it a thousand times. There is no comparison to the health effects of the city
water versus the water that we are drinking, even with a home drinking system. Another key
point is what we talked about, the pollution of our fragile aquifer. First from over-withdrawals
through development, through the people that live here right now and through these private home
treatment systems. The liability of service. I do not have a generator, my home would not
accommodate the placement of a generator and so when power goes out, I do not have water.
And I cannot flush and we would have to live like that until the power is restored. The
protection of home plumbing, the reduced amount of discharge of backwash water and also the
effect on septic systems. When you have a well, you have to be very, very careful where you
place a septic system. And almost all of our homes in the same area that we are talking about
have septic. So when you do not use wells and the wells are closed and you now can be drinking
public water, people who have failing septic systems have greater flexibility as to where they can
place them on their property. We talked, I heard about that you would like to go for an
environmental review process. I am rather familiar with environmental review, I have actually
performed several SEQRA processes and performed several environmental impact statements for
some of my clients. So I would like to talk about what might come out an environmental review.
If anyone would like it on the Board, I have actually brought the full environmental assessment
form from SEQRA and can leave that with you but the key topics are public health, natural
resources, endangered species, animal habitat, noise, traffic, transportation, air quality,
archaeological resources, you can see there is a rather long list. Let me try to boil it down for
you which ones I would think would be the ones identified as having adverse or positive
permanent impacts. Well, certainly public health as I have talked about and certainly natural
resources in the protection of the fragile aquifer and perhaps and also energy consumption
because these home heating systems and also well pumps have a large environmental footprint
with respect to energy consumption especially reverse osmosis units which have to operate at
much higher pressures than you would get from public water or even from your well pump. The
negative impacts are what most of the people who I guess are here tonight and what we have
April 6, 2010 Page 48
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
heard from previous speakers have to do about the development issue. So let me talk to you as a
professional planner. That power is in your hands. You have extensive zoning regulations, I
myself had to apply to the Trustees for permits, I have been before the Planning Board, I have
been before the Zoning Board and I also had to get permits from the New York State DEC for
improvements to my home. Every single time I have to make some type of an improvement, I
need a permit. It is certainly a very onerous, strict process and I respect that and I think that
really is what you would need to do to maintain that process to prevent development. The power
is in your hands. The biggest thing I would like to point out is, there is no sewers. So just
getting public water is not a carte blanche for development. And there are very strict regulations
that Suffolk County has concerning the placement of septic systems and high density
development would not be accommodated by those roles and regulations. So I don't really see
why public water would be considered such a stimulus for development and in fact, the town can
control that process and does so extremely well. Suffolk County Water Authority, as far as I
know, is a non-profit organization, so whatever charges occur occurred because this is to cover
their own costs and when it provides water to the people in this area, I know that it would cost
them much more to do so than for other areas and yet we would all end up paying the same
charges. So I think it is a rather fair distribution of charges and I for one would be happy to pay
a connection charge and happy to pay a monthly bill. Thank you very much for the opportunity
to talk to you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you.
DAVID MOORE: Supervisor Russell, members of the Board. My name is David Moore and I
live on the Main Road in Orient and I have been there since 1968. I thought I would be the only
one standing up here, the proverbial thom among the roses but I am very much in favor of this
water system coming to Orient. I think probably I agree with 90% of what Freddie Wachsberger
says, I agree with 90% of what Venetia says, I agree. I think Orient's development has to be
very, very carefully monitored but I think that power is in the hands of a board and the zoning
and a comprehensive plan, personally I think the first thing you should do is approve the water
map, the extension of the water map so that the people that need a reliable supply of fresh water,
can have it. The rest of this stuff comes, is secondary to that or is tertiary to that or something
but there are people in Orient that are straggling to maintain water supplies in their own homes
and I think that is wrong. So I urge you very much to approve the water map, put a moratorium
on any kind of development based on the availability of water for the time being, come up with a
comprehensive plan, make it ironclad and I am all in favor of that but first I think you should let
us have the water. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you, Dave.
ANN HOPKINS: My name is Ann Hopkins and I live in Orient. I received the SCWA survey
because my house on Platt Road which I bought in 1978 is 380 feet from the Main Road. I have
the following questions and comments about the survey, like David Silverstone I find it a bit
lacking in some aspects. And my first question is why did the survey only go to those of us on or
close to the proposed transmission lines since SCWA has acknowledged that this line could
ultimately serve the entire hamlet of Orient? I think it is important for the Board in considering
April 6, 2010 Page 49
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
the results of this survey to ask, first, exactly how many households received the survey? Of
those households, how many replied at all? I asked this because the letter is worded to suggest
that those of us who do not want SCWA water need not reply. I quote, "if you have an interest
in connecting your home to our system now or in the future, would you be so kind as to complete
the enclosed, self-addressed, stamped survey form and return it to us prior to the upcoming
heating?" I heard a figure bandied about of 70% of those responding were in favor of it at a time
when I and at least one other family that I know who got the survey, hadn't answered it because
we didn't think we needed to. And finally, how many of those who replied said that they want
SCWA water now and how many said that they might want it in the future? This is after all, the
point that we are making, which is just not yet. So those are my comments on the survey and
then I also would like to note for the record that in February 1996 when Michael LoGrande who
was then the SCWA CEO came to Orient to discuss the authority's intentions for Brown's Hills
and by extension all of Orient, he said they were not only coming to solve Brown's Hills
problems but also looking to buy property in Orient so that they could, in the future, hook people
up if they ran into problems and I just want to note that the stated hookup charge at that time was
$800. Today the water authority quotes what you might call a discount charge of $2,000 or
twice that later on and I can only say that I wish my social security income had increased by that
much in those 13 years. Thank you.
MAUREEN DACIMO: Good evening Supervisor Russell and Town Board members. My name
is Maureen Dacimo and I live on Narrow River Road in Orient and we have been there since
1988 and over the years the water quality has gotten progressively worse. We have water that is
extremely high in iron and manganese. We don't want to drink it, we have had spring water for
all that time but it is not only the quality of the drinking water, it is the quality of water you use
for everything. They say a picture is worth a thousand words, well I brought a couple of things.
This is a new dish and this is a dish that is about I ¼ year old. This is a new towel and this is a
towel that is about 1 ½ year old. Our clothes are ruined, your hair, your skin. Our boat is
discolored. Everything that it touches, the toilet, the tubs, the pipes, the hot water heater we need
to replace every few years and we don't want to drink it, we finally got we saved up enough
money to get a water softening treatment system. Just had it installed a few weeks ago. Went
through a great deal of money to have it installed to accommodate our house and the water is still
yellow. The water has gotten rid of the solid iron and manganese but we still have a high level
of tannin in our water, which is still yellow. We are going to get some more resins and another
tank but they don't even know if that will clear it up. So while we are definitely not for
overdevelopment in Orient, we never have been. We haven't overdeveloped anything where we
are and we don't plan to. We do want the right to have clean drinking water and clean water for
all our use. I appreciate your time, thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you.
SANDRA SiNCLAIR: Supervisor Russell, Town Board, my name is Sandra Sinclair, I live in
Orient and I have great sympathy with anybody who is having problems with their water. I
mean, this is the first and most important need of any human being. However, I wonder if the
people that have been having these problems have ever thought of installing a reverse osmosis
system that is combined with carbon? I would submit to you that because of the failure of so
April 6, 2010 Page 50
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
many municipal water systems, because of the problems in the water systems in this country, this
is National Geographic this month. Corporate America has come to the rescue. P&G, 3M,
Pentair, Aquapure, you name it. They make systems that are affordable and they can be installed
by somebody that is handy or you can have your plumber do it. You can get rid of rust, you can
get rid of nitrates, you can get rid of bacteria, there is a site, I don't mean to shill for them but it
is called the clean water store, com, they are terrific. You can buy a reverse osmosis carbon
system for under $400. You can get a system such as I have in my house for about $1,100. I
have had my system for 12 years. It cost me between $150 to $250 to have it serviced. I give a
local guy some business. I have to maintain my pump but that is spread out over time. Now, if
you can get a system for $1,100 that will really take care of your problems, why hookup, what is
the fee that I have heard? $2,000 that it is going to cost to hook into SCWA's water, which by
the way they'have acknowledged to Venetia Hands and Brown's Hills that once that water comes
through, it is not going to be as good as the reverse osmosis system that is now in place. I submit
to you that in an ecological sense if you have town water or the water that comes in from SCWA,
you are going to be using drinking water for all sorts of purposes in your house. My reverse
osmosis system with carbon, works only for my cooking and my drinking. So that I don't use a
lot of water that is getting thrown away. I have a real problem with monopolies, I think SCWA
is a monopoly, I think it is arrogant. I think that the way that it has proceeded in trying to get this
(inaudible) into Orient. I think that they have pushed the town aside, they have made it clear that
they don't really feel that they need to have the SEQRA, they have even marked up the roads
even before they had gotten permission. I submit to you that I personally would not like to see
the pipeline come at all. But if the pipeline is going to come, I think that some limits have to be
placed on what I think are public monopolies that are really answerable to their stockholders.
Thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you.
TOM COSTA: Tom Costa, Orient. I live in the community adjoining the Brown's Hills road
community and from what I understand, they are having trouble with their water. I am in the
Hillcrest Estates area and I got a water test in 2004 and according to that water test, there is
nothing wrong with my water. Now I got another water test in December of this past year, I am
not an expert at reading these tests so I thought well, maybe there is something wrong that I
don't see so I called them up. They told me that there is nothing wrong with the water so I don't
really understand why they are pushing this pipeline. I know that I hear that they are using
stimulus money, so I am figuring they must be getting this stimulus money from the stimulus
tree. Because if they are using my tax money for it, I mean, I should have something to say
about it. Right now, from everything I hear, I don't want this pipeline. I have a well, I have no
trouble with it. The worse thing that happened to me was I saw a slightly green stain in the sink.
Okay? and I was told that that is told by an erosion of the copper pipes from something in the
water. It is nothing that is so terrible. IfI was to replace those pipes with plex, that would be the
end of that problem. So I hear about sulfates and nitrates and I don't see anything here.
Anybody that wants to look at this and tell me what is in here that is so bad, I wish they would. I
mean, I just don't get it. As far as stimulus money is concerned, I wish that Southold could get
stimulus money, maybe to go into some of these developments and repair the roads. That I
think, hey, I don't mind spending my tax money on that. But to spend it on a pipe that I don't
April 6, 2010 Page 51
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
know if this water is going to be coming from the Croton reservoir or if it is coming from East
Marion. Nobody is telling me where the water is coming from. If this is, if they are just going to
dig into another aquifer, we are back where we started from. So, I don't know. That is all I have
to say.
BOB DELUCA: Good evening, Supervisor Russell, members of the Town Board. My name is
Bob DeLuca and I live in East Marion on The Crossway in Pebble Beach. And I also serve as
president of the Group for the East End and for the record I have a bachelors in environmental
science, masters in environmental science and I have taught for about 15 years at Long Island
University in state, local and environmental policy and prior have served as a biologist and
senior environmental analyst at the Suffolk County Health Department. And since somebody
said something nice about me before, I was hesitant to get up here but I will do the best that I
can. A couple of points and largely related to process. I think what you heard from people you
pretty much knew coming in here, there is a concern about getting public water to people who
need it and there is a legitimate concem about people who see the potential for public water
being an avenue for growth inducement which everybody in Orient for many, many years has not
wanted to see and the Board has obviously supported that through prior studies and so forth, so
what do you do? There is a couple of things and there is two ways to skim this, I think and I am
going to again speak directly to process. One is you have proposed local law in front of you, it is
subject to SEQRA, it is probably an unlisted action, you all can move forward with that SEQRA
review process and decide whether or not it should be subject to a draft environmental impact
statement. I think you probably have pretty good grounds for that and one of the grounds that I
would offer for you to consider is the very ground of growth inducement which is specifically
listed in the law. One of the interesting thing with SEQRA is they have this handbook that
comes out about every 15 years and it used to be about 12 pages and I found out this afternoon it
is now 200 pages when I tried to print it out but I did you a favor, I printed out a page and one of
the issues they raise here is what is an example of growth inducement? And this is supposed to
provide lead agencies with an opportunity to say whether you should or shouldn't do an
environmental impact statement. You counsel can obviously advise you more but just listen to
this line. It says 'the following is an example of how actions may induce growth related impacts.
The extension of public utilities such as sewer and water into an agricultural area previously not
served by these utilities may encourage non farm development and undermine the area's
agricultural base. And when I first heard about this project, one of the things that I did was to go
and see whether or not there was this potential for growth inducement as I understood it and I
realized that if your eyes are like mine that you can't see all of this but if you will trust me and I
apologize to the folks behind me. The map shows based on the towns' land use map, essentially
all the yellow that you see are areas that are undeveloped, in many cases those are on your list
slated for acquisition or protection and what I have done is I have gone through and figured out
the acreage and you come up with and there is conservatively about 240 acres, could be a bit
more, of large undivided parcels that have a direct connection to 25, they are right on the road
which means if the pipeline comes across that road, you are entitled to tap into it, as anybody
else would be. Now that is all fine. The concern is whether that promotes someone coming to
you and asking for something that you otherwise would not have been asking for and whether
your comprehensive plan is in strong enough shape with a good basis and determination that
provides all of the relevant boards with sufficient ammunition to say no if they ought to say no.
April 6, 2010 Page 52
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
and that's really what this is all about, as somebody said before, it is about sequencing and if you
do an environmental impact statement on your own accord as the lead agency, now you may be
challenged and maybe the water authority will say they are doing their own but you have got to
figure all that out. Bottom line is, somebody should be doing an environmental impact
statement, that impact statement should look at need, it should assess potential impacts, it should
look at mitigation measures and some of those mitigation measures may be things you want to
incorporate into your comprehensive plan and essentially, you move forward with a pipeline
when you know what the potential consequences are going to be, you know how you are going
mitigate those consequences and you know what they mean going forward for your own
comprehensive planning process. Now if somebody argues about the time factor, I tried to find
out today from the Congressman's office and other places what the time factor was on this grant
for the water authority and I don't know the answer but that obviously could be a relevant issue
that needs to be sorted out. There is another way to look at this as well and the other way would
be on the town's own accord, you could impose a very specific moratorium on these, it's about
ten parcels that would prohibit a change of zone until you get your comprehensive plan in shape
and adopted and the folks in Orient have confidence that basically what everybody wants to have
as the future of Orient has the best chance of occurring. Nobody likes moratoria, I understand
that. I have been at this for a long time but the bottom line is, a select group of small projects, if
nobody comes in, you don't have a problem. If somebody does come in, then you are protected
against what it is that people are concerned about and you might be able to do that if in fact there
was an agreement to have the pipeline moved forward. In either case, what you are doing is you
are getting the information and the planning steps ahead of the installation of a water main
extension and I have said from the beginning and I am an old health department guy, I
understand the value of the public water extension and I understand that there is legitimate need
but I also have been at this long enough to see that growth follows the water line and as a prior
health department guy, the health department doesn't say no to a lot of projects and I am sure
Mr. Jones will bear me out on that. They give a lot of approvals to a lot of things and relying on
them to say no is not the way to go. And this is the issue of course, the water authority has its
own responsibilities, the health department sees the world through this prism but you all are in
the drivers' seat, I think and if you step forward and either one of those avenues, I think you get
to where most people want to be and if you heard, everybody here who says let's slow it down is
still saying public water could be okay as long as we knew what the consequences are and many
of the people who said they wanted public water said we understand the concerns that people
have about growth inducement. So there is probably a lot more agreement here than you have at
a lot of these meetings and I just want to make sure we point that out because that gives
everybody a little better help going forward. But at the end of the day, remember what the
SEQRA handbook says, this is the, I think, the quintessential example of growth inducement and
you have every right to look at what the potential impacts could be before you take action and
you would be doing a service to the community in the long run and not leaving some board down
the road, who knows when, looking at a change of zone application and not being able to reach
back and not being able to reach back and pull out a comprehensive plan that says we want
Orient to look a certain way for these ten reasons and just because there is public water is not
reason enough to alter the zoning code. And by the way, I just want to point out, I realize that
the Board has turned down applications that have come before you and that is great. There is
always, you know, board's come and go, things change, people make great arguments, they have
April 6, 2010 Page 53
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
good attorneys. Who knows? Your best bet is to have as much in that comprehensive plan as
you possibly can. That being said, I just want to thank you for your time in giving the public an
opportunity to be heard on this and I want to thank you all very much for doing what you can to
provide the best plan for Orient and recognize the difficult, you know, juggling that you have
going on with this.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Just to answer that briefly, we did have the discussion about
SEQRA this morning at the work session. So that is an ongoing discussion that we are working
on as far as the town doing SEQRA.
MR. DELUCA: Okay.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And you spoke about being a health department employee...
MR. DELUCA: What about that?
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And about zone changes. It was only a couple of years ago, that
this board, of well-intentioned, good people voted a zone change to put 22 units on seven acres
and the health department approved the septic systems and it was on a county designated, special
groundwater protection area. So whatever kinds of plans you have in place, sometimes don't
always work out.
MR. DELUCA: Right.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: But let me point out, that was originally proposed for 36 units on
seven acres. We tried to scale it back so you can get the fire trucks in and out if you had to.
MR. DELUCA: Again, the best tool, I realize nothing is perfect, the best tool you have is a
strong comprehensive plan that gives you the best ammunition and even in those cases, you may
end up against the wall. But in any case, the more you, and now is the time to do a comp plan, it
is the perfect time to you know, put Orient at the front of the line maybe and just start working
on that. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you.
BILL GIBBONS: I am Bill Gibbons, I live in Orient Point. I am not a scientist, I am not an
expert on anything. But I do know that I have really, really lousy water and I want public water.
When I moved in and had my water tested, the health department told me do not drink the water.
They said that pregnant women, small children, people with compromised immune systems,
people that are undergoing chemotherapy treatments, nobody should be drinking that water. And
I just want to say that I am really puzzled by a lot of these comments from some of these people.
I know their intentions are good and I know they have their reasons for doing it, but I have to
disagree with most of them and I have always felt that it is, elected officials have the obligation
to provide health and safety to the community and I think that by not approving, if you do
approve it or not, the pipeline, then it is just going to continue the way it is. My real estate value
April 6, 2010 Page 54
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
will go down. I would have better fire protection, I would maybe be able to get a sprinkler
system installed in the house, if the pipeline don't come, I can't do any of that. Thank you very
much.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you.
MICHAEL DELANO: Hello. Thank you for allowing me to talk. My name is Michael Delano,
my wife and I have a house on the causeway near Dam Pond, I have two things to say. First, my
wife's position, she read over the 1999 report, she is a kidney specialist and she deals with
patients who dialyze themselves at home, so she knows water quality very well. She says
reverse osmosis systems, really high quality ones, will handle all the problems that she read
about in that report. I don't know what the tests of other people have turned up, our water
quality seems to be fine. The second thing I want to raise is the environmental impact of this
whole thing. As I understand it, to get stimulus funds you must abide by what is called NEPA,
national environmental policy act which was passed in 1969 which requires a review and it
sounds like this is going to take place. Dam Pond is about 100 acres, I live right near it, I know
it backwards. I have been on it probably 1,000-2,000 times in the last 20 years. It has got
130,000,000 gallons of water in it and in the course of the year something like one billion gallons
of salt water show into it and out of it because of the tide and all of that through that narrow
channel at the beginning of the causeway, the western end of the causeway. Now underneath
that little channel there is where the water main is going to pass. I wonder what the
environmental impact is going to be on that. Let me add to that, I wonder about the structural
integrity of this water line. If you look at projections, with global warming, melting icecaps,
melting glaciers, it is projected that sea levels will rise by one foot in the next 75 years. That is
going to put enormous stress on that water pipe that goes under that channel there, so I really do
think some of these things should be taken into account. Personally, since our water is fine, I am
opposed to the water main completely. Thank you.
JERRY DEFIORE: Good evening Board. My name is Jerry Defiore. I am unlike almost
everyone in this room. I am a person from up island who is enamored by over 50 years of this
area to more to the area in the near future. What I am concerned about is the level of dialogue in
a discussion that is a matter of choice. Where I live presently for 35 years with Suffolk County
Water Authority water and as a developer/builder, you know, the relationship I have seen with
them on both a professional and personal basis has been accommodating. My concern is some of
the discussion that has been generated, although very factual, many of the aspects especially of
land use preservation and the concern and cause for it, I believe are not as founded as some of
the specifics of the merits of people having choice. The very nature of this township and I have
dealt with a number of townships over, they are some of the most pro-active, environmentally
sensitive and protectionist people, regardless of the political persuasion of the past five years that
I have been very involved, which the Supervisor knows to a certain degree. I respect everyone
on that board, as I have respected some of their predecessors as having innate wisdom. The very
comprehensive plan, you talked about a 2020 plan, what was enacted by the Planning
Department over five years ago that has stood the test of times, that has not been challenged in
its specificity and its entirety for its protection of communities, has withstood the test of time as
well as individual cases that this Board in conjunction with villages, have gone to protect
April 6, 2010 Page 55
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
densities that are outfight outlandish. You are the envy, Orient, of Brookhaven town where I
live. Litigation that I helped sponsor in 1994 did not feed off development. I am a quite
different type of developer. I know their plans that are in place, that have no applications as we
speak that take years to pass through the process, require 60 percent of those lands to be open
space. That guarantee you that more than half of whatever there is that is left to be saved is
saved automatically. That takes great stress off of this Board to identify those even more
sensitive lands to buy their development rights entirely. The areas that development could occur
in your region are so isolated in many spaces that three to five houses at best could be on some of
those parcels and then further densification reduced by bluffs, by wetlands and by other areas of
concern. The myriad of examination that must go through town, state and county review are
exhaustive and they are ever sharpening every year. If we had the kind of comprehensive plans
that are in place now in Southold and specifically the blessed diversity of protection and ratios of
space saved that Orient has, we would have been in much better shape. The fears that you have
are the fears that I would have. The substandard lots that many of you live on, that maybe your
home you would need six of those homes to presently pass muster with the town so that you
would all have to congregate in one space. The idea of it leaving as it has been a rural open
effect that the people could generally use has now been consolidated so that your boards can
identify and leave you the vistas and the most pristine areas and they even induce on occasion,
farming in those. So you are getting a double bang. I, in my future desire, probably could not
afford a two acre lot in any subdivision. I probably will look at a sale of an existing non-
conforming lot where variances have to be done between well and septic system in an ever
increasing concern of pollutants and most importantly the aquifer, you are absolutely correct, it is
a fragile aquifer that the fact that other development and many of your neighbors will take less of
a stress on that aquifer by it being drawn from deeper aquifers and it will prevent the migration
and up surging of those particulars on a never ending basis until they can migrate out to the bays
and sound where they can be dissipated more greatly. But most importantly, this as well with
many other instances which I have never had the pleasure to see before this board and I
commend this board, I know you all personally by reading the articles voraciously, I know your
positions, your thoughts and you should be very proud of your elected officials. It is a very, very
hotly contested process as Ms. Woodhouse would know and you have, even though you do not
make the muster, are great people for your community, that have very, very great concerns for
you. There is no need to have fear that any process that could come that is not even before this
board, would not have evaluation of a comprehensive review .....
UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible comment
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Please, let him finish please.
MR. DEFIORE: Because I chose to come to live here.
UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible comment.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: You know what? We are going to all be, I understand, but we are
all going to be polite to each other
April 6, 2010 Page 56
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible comment
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: No, no. We are going to be ladies and gentlemen here. Let him
finish please.
MR. DEFIORE: So I have (inaudible) but again, the main thing which now we have brought out
an aspect, it is to be civil with all thoughts and persuasions. A synergy of a lot of good ideas are
better than distancing and creating fences where they need not be. Thank you, Board.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. Who would like to go next?
BENJA SCHWARTZ: Good evening. Benja Schwartz, Cutchogue. This is not just an Orient
issue, in fact the proposed pipeline is estimated to cost $3.8 million, $1.9 million the federal
government has promised to forgive the loan. The other $1.9 million is going to be charged to
all of the rate payers of Suffolk County Water Authority all through Suffolk County including
the rest of Southold Town, so I don't know why Orient is not really happy that we are bestowing
this wonderful gift on them but I have looked into it and I would just like to start with a quick
sentence from the development plan of the Town of Southold that speaks to the issue zoning by
water. In the matter of potable water the Planning Board envisions our water resources as a fixed
or absolute limit within which all planning and growth projections must be fitted. This was the
reason for our zoning and limits on our population density. Chick Voorhees wrote the Southold
Town water supply management and protection strategy including saying existing developed
areas and expected infilling in coastal areas where public water distribution is necessary because
of salt water intrusion problems in wells will consume available water supply. So we don't have
unlimited water. At one point in 2004, the Shelter Island newspaper quoted the deputy CEO for
operations of SCWA saying public water opens up the potential to build on previously non-
buildable lots. So the concern that development accompanies the advent of public water is there
and rightly so. Now, just to clear up, somebody mentioned today SCWA was a non-profit
corporation. It is not. It is a public benefit corporation. That doesn't mean it represents the
public interest. We will get into that. But one thing it does mean is that it is considered a
government agency not for the purposes of the national environment act but the state
environmental quality review act. The SCWA is looking for work right now. in its 2010
statement of organizational goals and objectives, it wrote the prospect for future growth and
revenue have flattened, so they are looking for work. Well, do you think, you know, should
they come here and work here? I don't know but the idea, because they are called a public
benefit corporation, that doesn't quite jive with another statement in that same 2010 statement of
goals and objectives which is on their website says that the office of the CEO will determine if it
is necessary to plan for a program of sustainable stewardship for source water protection. It may
be time for SCWA to step up its own planning oversight education and investment and so
(inaudible). SCWA needs to look through intelligent foresight at the available options for the
short and long term and put in place sustainable management techniques to inure to the benefit of
bond holders and rate payers for years to come. Well, if you are not a bond holder or a rate
payer then it doesn't seem like you are included in the, and then they have also in the same
statement again they talk about the lawsuit by certain residents of Orient and they are opposing
the request to complete an environmental impact statement review process. They cite the
April 6, 2010 Page 57
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
potential to lose $1.5 million from the American resource or whatever but the interesting thing is
they say their legal department will defend the lawsuit and if necessary we will prepare an
environmental review to allow the installation to go forward. That is not the way it works. The
environmental assessment or the impact statement process requires fundamentally consideration
of the no action alternative. It also requires consideration of other alternatives. It is not just an
environmental protection law, it is a public disclosure law that protects the economic interests
not just of the property owners in Orient but all over, at least the region where the SCWA serves.
Finally the idea that SCWA could, with a straight face, state that this pipeline is going out there
to serve a single subdivision is just absurd and it is also, under the SEQRA law, it is considered
segmentation of action. You are required to consider the whole action when you make a
determination whether or not to prepare an environmental impact statement. And if you consider
the whole action the potential for service to the entire Orient peninsula which may or may not be
a bad thing but we don't know it is a good thing and we shouldn't be taking the chance that it
could be a bad thing without at least getting together in an organized fashion and the SEQRA
law provides that opportunity. So I am hoping that this Town Board will call for a SEQRA
review, if the SCWA doesn't decide to do one themselves. There has been some wavering there
and maybe after they hear from us tonight maybe they will consider changing their tune. And an
environmental impact statement review, if it is done the way I would be as lead agency would
not just consider the pipeline to Orient because we already have a pipeline into Southold Town
but we could take this opportunity and look at the rate structure of the SCWA and the way that
the SCWA provision of water has in fact although they do take steps to promote conservation
and efficient use of water, in general public water facilitates the waste of water. We don't have a
lot of water. All of our planning reviews have always said that we should not import it. SCWA
has done a plan recently that says that that's the best thing for Southold Town. But this is not
just an Orient issue. It is much bigger now. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED: You know, we have heard a lot of things tonight and I really don't want to get
lost in the weeds on this. All we are saying, my colleagues and I from Orient, all we are saying
is not yet. Not yet. We are not saying we don't want clean water for school children. I would
go crazy if my towels looked like that lady's towels. I mean, you know, that would drive me
nuts. So I am not saying I don't want her to have fabulous water. What I am saying is we want
to play team ball about the comprehensive plan. We want to do things in the proper sequence.
We want our scenic vistas protected by good zoning. We want to do this in a properly thought
out process and so what we are saying is not yet. Ten years from now, SCWA after we have got
our perfect zoning into place and I don't have to worry about 35 condos across the street from
me in my open field. I am all for it. I might even sign up for it myself, I doubt it but I would
give it some consideration. We are just saying not yet. Please help us protect what we have in
Orient. I am going to share as they say. My Irish great grandfather was a dairy farmer in the
Bronx, so we all know that agriculture in New York City and points east and west disappears
over time. After Orient, there is nothing else. You know, we are the last bastion of that beautiful
agricultural heritage that we all admire and that moved so many of us here, so we are just saying,
please, Town Board, Southold Town Board, do your duty, take your time, let's all be adults
about this. Think it through and just, we don't want this pipeline yet. Not yet.
INAUDIBLE: Good evening, I am (inaudible) full time resident of Orient, citizens, the
April 6, 2010 Page 58
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
honorable Scott Russell, Council members. I would like to cover three items today.
Summarized and publicly available data about the finances of SCWA, cover some options for
interim delivery of clean water to those that need it in Orient and transient municipal water
quality in the United States. The SCWA, like the other 640 authorities in New York State
include the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, better known as the MTA and the Long
Island Power Authority, better known as LIPA but they draw the same statutes in terms of their
formation. They can borrow money, they can use it to invest in their mission and in the case of
the SCWA, its clean and drinkable, pure and drinkable water at a reasonable cost to the citizens
of Suffolk County. For the financial year which is the latest set of audited financials that are
available, the SCWA saw a decrease in overall revenue of $8.5 million. They lost $6.5 million
on an operating basis. Okay. Their customer base has been relatively flat for the last several
years but a one percent increase and in these troubled economic times when a company loses
money, you really have one or two choices. You cut costs or you increase revenue. Okay. In
terms of cost cutting, the costs that SCWA incurred in that fiscal year went up by $30 million,
$12 million of which was driven by health care and $1 million by net operating expenses. I will
leave a copy of their financials with you, which leaves basically the only option which is
increasing revenue. Right. I would make one other point which is the authority, like many
authorities has an unfunded liability of $116 million that needs to be funded out of the rate
payers. $24 million was spent in fiscal 2009 for non pension post employment benefits which
basically means participants that have either retired or left on some other basis to the tune of
$24.29 million, so for the 904 participants at the water authority that is roughly $26,000 per
participant in that program. They have chosen not to release the financial of their program to the
public. Point number two, drinkable water. Given the amount of words surrounding this issue
and the authority's application to the State of New York, one would think that Orient and
particularly Brown's Hills have a water crisis of biblical proportions. Well, the troth is, we
don't, several of us, under the Freedom of Information Act or Freedom of Information law in the
State of New York, got some data points out of the Suffolk County Health Department and out of
180,000 data points, 8,000 of them are equal to the state mandated limits which are actually
tighter than the EPA and the rest of them are actually less than the number of contaminants or the
amount of contaminants that you would expect, okay. I will show you a water filter that I used
when I am in areas that have unsafe water, mostly in undeveloped countries. Prior to this I used
to get sick all the time but this is a modem, American made water filter rated for septic
conditions down to a (inaudible). This is 21st century technology in the 21st century, okay.
There are many techniques, we talked about that before that can deliver clean water and the point
here is, there are technologies available on an interim basis to get people clean water while you
have the opportunity to do a thorough review and come through with a thorough plan. I was
amused by the gentleman from up island, when we moved here 20 years ago and bought our
place in Orient 12 years ago, we were assured that the lot next to us was unbuildable. Well,
guess what? This enormous mansion went up on there with no setbacks, so obviously whatever
process works to make you think it is unbuildable doesn't really hold tree or if I may, hold water
in the situation. Trends in water quality.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Never believe a realtor.
MR. (?): Trends in water quality, it is no secret that water quality in municipalities around the
April 6, 2010 Page 59
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
country is decreasing. Right, the quantity and quality of water is decreasing and if you read, it
will tell you that. In fact I have several papers here from the health department, (inaudible)
monitoring programs put together by our consulting agency called (inaudible) very well known
consulting finn, writes on page 23 of task 7.2 dated February 4, 2010, the groundwater nitrogen
level increased in un-sewered areas as housing density increases. So the gun is always pointed at
agriculture but the troth is, the number one contributor for groundwater contamination to nitrates
is houses. Houses. Okay?. and you can see that on the US geological survey as well, they also
go on to say they have a table (inaudible) of 1.29 817 sidebar 8, urban land use contributes more
(inaudible) to groundwater than do other land uses. So, I would ask you as western Suffolk
continues to see the erosion of open spaces and farmland, how does it affect the quality of water
destined for Orient? Do you know? Should we find out, before we embark on this process? So
I would ask you, in addition to taking a comprehensive plan is to understand the structure of
issue that is faced by the water company, right. Because the same aquifers and the gentleman
from Hillcrest I think identified it really well. The water is coming from East Marion or it is
coming from further west but these are areas that are getting increasing density and every study
that we see, every single study, including EPA talks about density being the number one
contributor to aquifer pollution. So in closing, I would like to reiterate that the financial situation
of the water company requires (inaudible), we can deploy technologies in Orient and the
community having to chip in for people that are financially, don't have the financial resources to
get filters at this point in time and the structural issues of the source water quality that I urge you
to look at as you go forward. Thank you very much.
DAVID MUDD: Gentlemen of the Board, ladies and all participants here which we all are.
David Mudd, Southold. You are all talking about not wanting water, wanting water, all the rest.
I am sure you have this right in your hand now, this is the 08 thing about water on Long Island in
our area here in Southold. At that time we were importing 3.5 % of our water from Riverhead.
So everybody says you have got plenty of water, you just keep pumping what you have got until
it runs out and then you will find out that you will be pumping in from some other place. But
just keep in mind, 3.5 % of the water in Southold Town now comes from Riverhead. Now I have
a further draft here that is called the SCWA production control pumpage and storage statistics. I
have the 03, 04, 05 and 06 pumpages. We happen to live down the road here, just short of
Ackefly Pond by Doroski nurseries. And the well closest to us is called Ackerly Pond Lane. It
first started out when Greenport water owned the water company. It had one well point. After it
was taken over by Suffolk water, they have now put two more pumps in it. So we have five
pumps in that little five acre area and we are pumping out in the last, in 06 one hundred seventy
thousand seven hundred million gallons in one place right down the road. One hundred seventy
thousand seven hundred million gallons out of one five acre piece. That is a lot. And it is also
done with the fact that to my knowledge there is no monitor wells. Ordinarily in places that are
concerned ground water, what it is doing, coming up, going down and so forth, they have a
regular check on a monitor well that they put around in place and take a reading on it frequently
to find out whether it is going up or down or running out completely. But we don't do that with
Suffolk water, we leave somebody else to do that, that's my knowledge anyhow. Now, another
thing we do here which makes me say that we are all participants in this thing today, we furnish
Suffolk water with between 300 and 400 acres of land that they own in Southold Town and do
not pay taxes on it. Guess who pays taxes on it? You, me, we do. So we subscribe by being
April 6, 2010 Page 60
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
participants and should be in the thing with Suffolk water because we are furnishing the land,
they are not paying taxes on it and they are using it at their discretion, if you let them. I happen
to be on a place on Pine Neck Road in I think it was 04 or 05, these fellas were going down the
road there. There was about three pickup tracks, a dump truck and a backhoe, no names on any
of it. So I am kind of curious, so I went out and said who do you guys represent? They said we
are from SCWA, I said, no kidding. I went down I started writing down their license plates.
Well, did these guys get mad. They said what are you doing that for? I said, if somebody is
going to steal something, I want to give them an idea of who did it. Who was here. Well, it
mined out it was Suffolk county workers they said because I called the main man at Suffolk
county and he said they are all supposed to have a sign on there. I said where do they put the
sign? He said, there is electronic signs. So the next day, all of them had brand new SCWA
electronic signs put on their vehicles. As soon as they moved away from my place, they took
them off. So I immediately assumed that this was the Suffolk county workers. I had no way of
knowing because, who is going to find out? Well, the next day after that dock, DOCK, who is a
project supervisor for Suffolk water came out to visit me. He said, you know, we are sorry about
what happened. I am on three different projects and I can't watch over everything. I said, I see
that. So he said I am going to give you my cell phone and my regular phone and if you have a
problem call me and I will get on it right away and I said that is sweet, that is very nice. But we
finished but not as friends. But as I started offsaying that all the people in Southold are partners
with the SCWA and if you think you are going to sit here and wait to see what they are going to
do, get in line because all of the areas that have done that, they have gone through with a
vengeance, they do the work and they say ohhhh, we have projects we have got to do, we have
these workers and they are out of there before you can bat your eye. If you are going to, in my
opinion if you are going to stop that pipeline from going through up there, you people should
organize and if they come up there, you get out on the road, you stir up the pot and you get it
going. They took a line here in Southold down Oaklawn I guess it was 06, they started the
project from Route 25 down in front of our school. It was the 7th of September, the school was
going to open up the next week. Well, I see that going on, I am livid. I go up there and I said,
what in the hotel, I went up here to the Town Board, the Board said they were just getting ready
to go into a meeting and I said listen guys, you should see what they are doing to us down there.
They are going to put that thing in that school and they are going to get it tied up for lord only
knows how long. But they were very sweet after they came out a week or two later, the CEO
said we will adjust it so we will only work on that road between 10 and 2 so it won't interfere
with the school. That project went until I think the end of December before they finally got it
asphalted. Now we do two things and I am not an engineer, I am just a crazy old farmer, former
airline pilot but they go down the road, dig the hole, drop the pipe and then seal up the road and
then they come back in the next stage with the backhoe, dig it down and put in what they call the
bib that hooks up that thing to each one of the houses. I personally think it is just a way that they
have to break the contract so they keep control of it and nobody else can come. Nobody else has
the, you know, and I have suspicions on this deal have here going out to Orient, that they are
saving that work for themselves and they want to get in there as quick as they can, if they get a
chance they will dig, bury, do everything they can immediately before you can turn around. The
only way you can fight them is with fire. And that is look after them every minute, make it not
easy for them, don't cooperate. I have had the limits. I had a farm at one time over in Jersey
back in 57 and the New Jersey power utility, came up in back of my farm over there and I said
April 6, 2010 Page 61
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
what are you doing? There are four guys in the car said we are going to do a survey through
your farm here on the 250 acres from one end to the other. I said you are? I went inside and I
got my shotgun, I came outside and fired that shotgun and said you don't have any rights here
and if you don't get out of here immediately, you will wish you did. Guess what? They left.
They are used to doing that all the time and they beat you down to the point, what are my rights?
Well, if you, it is like where they have the ability to be able to say, the rights they are given by
the state or the federal government, they only get those if we give it to them.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: I think we found our new code enforcer.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I was going to say, Mr. Mudd, if you talk much longer you are going
to find yourself the mayor of Orient village.
MR. MUDD: I am a little young to take on too much. I am only 90. we have a problem with
the Greenport Brecknock water system. Their rate for getting water up there is 50% of what it is
for you and I. We furnish this, I would say, all these millions of gallons right across the road
from us. If I had the water, I would have to pay the full rate, which I do. but if I were in
Greenport town or Brecknock Hall, they get theirs for 50% of what you and I pay for. Now they
got that in originally done March 6, 1986 and they didn't get the contract closed until November
5, 1997, it was finally closed December 29, 1997. It called for a review after 10 years of these
rates. And I am sure SCWA goes every day and checks the rates and adjusts it either way. If I
had to make my guess, I will bet they are trying to avoid getting in to such a thing. That they
agreed to do it the same way they did agree Brown's Hills. They took that all when they bought
Greenport water company, now they are trying to slough it off, do something else, got all this
skimming they are doing and if they get by with it, you know, more power to them. Now
another subject. Fishing used to be off the bridges when our kids were growing up, I have been
here in Southold since 48. And they would go down there the Oaklawn bridge, the other bridge.
These kids would be fishing off the bridge. Suffolk water comes through, they put all this water
in there and they have to flush the lines. So they put the treated water through the lines into our
salt water. Now I had the pictures of it, I don't have all of them with me but I have a picture of
it. I was so upset, I went down to the town supervisor to say what can we do about it. He says,
you know, that is Suffolk county. So I called the DEC, I said they are flushing the roads out
here. I said if I were to do that, you guys would come out and arrest me, we are not allowed to
do that. They said, yeah, but that is SCWA. Now ! am not saying there are two standards but I
am saying that I don't have the same ability they have. Maybe it is because I can't be that way
and I never will be. The clamming fields in Pine Neck Road up by me, Duck Pond Road, Santori
motel down in the other part of the island where they ran the road down there to the old motel
that now belongs to a union down there, the electrical workers in Queens. And they are, you are
talking about guys getting suckered in, the place was closed a few years ago, not because of
water but because of sanitation. The septic tanks would not be allowed so Suffolk county closed
them down because they couldn't handle the septic. I hear now, I is what they are doing is they
figure they have clean water, you know, it will go through the septic tanks better. Even though it
is full. But that is the way it goes, you can't get them all. Now I have the pump records here for
the last five years and I am going to leave with the Board in case they have anybody (inaudible)
they could be partially right but I stick with the fact that I got it from SCWA. On the case there
April 6, 2010 Page 62
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
on Pine Neck Road, there were about four guys, a 10 wheel dump truck and a huge big backhoe
and they went through there, those were the ones that had no names on it. They had faces but no
names and trucks with no names. And I think that is their system over there, I find it difficult,
they break it down and I would like to have the SCWA answer whether they put out any bids at
all for this work they are doing or do they just grab it up themselves and do it in house? And the
reason they say that I have been down to their place down in Oakdale if you want to see a big,
big supply of pipes, valves, the whole works. It must be a mile square that they have down there.
so when they get a job and in my opinion, the people have to take the pipe that they are going to
furnish from their yard as part of their contract, so they get the bid on doing the labor or doing
something else but they will furnish the pipe, the valves, all the rest of the stuff. And they have
enough to last a long time. I would like to recommend to the Southold Town Board which I did
when I had the privilege of going and seeing the first water map that was produced. I think that
was 2006. Scott asked me to come to the meeting and I went down there and I was amazed at
the Board at that time because when they put this thing up, each one of them was saying, I didn't
know the water went down there, did you know? No, I didn't know that. Here it is, guys, it is
down there. They don't ask any questions, they just go through and do it. They did that going
down there, that motel. So if you are not vigilant, they are going to run over you. And I would
like to make a recommendation to the Board which I made at that very meeting and that is that
the Town Board consider appointing a representative for the utilities. Gas, electric and water.
And they said, well, we can't afford it and I said well, you can. Because we all come under the
supervision of that billion dollar fund that they are collecting that tax on and the SCWA, every
time they do a well and the rest of the things, they tap on that fund. And it has billions in it,
believe me. From the Pataki administration and I maintain that if we had the, you know, knots to
do it, we could appoint a man and tell him to go to the meeting once a month down there and go
to the gas meeting and also the utility meeting, bring the things back with them, sit in there as a
representative of the Town Board. And I would all but guarantee you that the water fund, clean
air and water fund will pay the tab. But you have got to just go do it. Say hey, we are going to
appoint one, we can't stand all the stuff that is going on. We would like to appoint a permanent
member and we are going to pay for it and we are going to bill you. And it has to be just that
direct. And if you do it, I will give you about a 75% or even a 90% chance that you will get it
paid for. With all that, I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you and listen to me and if I have
been too gruff, it is only because I meant to.
LINDA APOSTLE: My name is Linda Apostle, I live on the Main Road in Orient and the crazy
old farmer/former pilot from Southold is absolutely correct in saying that we do need due
diligence with these fellows because I too had a personal encounter with somebody in an
unmarked vehicle, parked in front of our property. And when came home one day and I stopped
at the end of our driveway and I said, sir, can I help you and he said oh, I am just here to do some
work and I said who are you with and what are you doing. He said I am with the SCWA and we
are getting to put the pipeline in and I am marking a road with the spray can. This was a few
weeks ago. And I said oh, really. You know that there is a lot of people in Orient who aren't so
sure that they want you here and he said oh, yeah, I know. so to his point that they are just going
to come along and do what they are going to do, I think that is evidenced by the fact that the
entire Main Road is marked up on both sides from Dam Pond up to Brown's Hills now, with dig
here signs and numbers and our property, again that faces the Main Road, has flags on it marking
April 6, 2010 Page 63
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
where our utilities are so in case they have to cut through there they are not going to wreck our
electricity which is underground or our gas line. So I thought it was very audacious of them to
be moving along without your approval to do so and I am wondering what happens if they do
start digging before you have gone through all of your process? Do I need to form the posse or
should I get my friend here from Southold to do it or what should we do?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We actually have an historic arrangement with the water authority
that they would not put water mains in without prior approval from the Board. I will clarify Mr.
Mudd's comments from before, they actually came to us in advance to running that pipe up from
Duck Pond Lane and we amended the water map. Also the water map was created in 2001 by a
previous Board and Supervisor. We would expect them to adhere to that, we will certainly look
at legal options if they don't.
MS. APOSTLE: Thank you very much.
GLYNNIS BERRY: Glynnis Berry and I live on the Main Road. First I would ask that you
don't look at the water issue as a single issue, that you really look at it comprehensively. Public
water does make water when you live in New York City and you have high densities and you
draw from the rural area. Orient is rural. We shouldn't be drawing from somewhere else. We
should learn how to live with what we have got. Also, we are surrounded by two water bodies
that are listed on the national register as being, you know, of prime significance. And when you
have any increase in development, it is not just the septic systems of course have an impact, also
roads, the use of the roads. Comell just did a study on low volume roads on Cape Cod where
they are finding that the impacts on the adjacent water bodies are significant. So it is not just the
cost of putting in the infrastructure, it is the maintenance after and it is also the consequences on
our environment. So of all the places on the east end, Orient should be one of the places where
we consider a sustainable development. Where we look at what we have, we look at best
practices, we do what is called low impact development where you look at natural systems.
These are what we should be doing and develop Orient as an example of what can be done. We
do care about water quality but we care about the whole environment that we are living in. We
care about fanning, we care about alternative ways of using energy which may use water. We
should look at that whole and what the future needs are and try to anticipate that. If you decide
that you really have to have this water pipeline as part of your environmental study, look at the
carbon footprint. Look at the expense. Look at what happens in an emergency and look at what
happens when you turn the water offbecause people can't pay it. That becomes a public health
issue that we will have to deal with in another way. And if you really need this pipeline, make it
public, not private.
NANCY SAWASTYNOWICZ: Nancy Sawastynowicz of Cutchogue. I am really not prepared
but there is a few things that I think might be interesting in this whole process. The huge condo
project in Cutchogue, if they get site plan approval, they will be pumping a lot of water and in
their file it says, when we receive site plan approval, then we will give you the water. So that is
all of our water. I am concerned with our water as a whole town. I like my well water. I don't
like chlorine. They have done studies now that it causes cancer. So I just want the town to be
broad minded and this water authority is really a problem. And when they came down Pequash,
April 6, 2010 Page 64
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
they destroyed the road. It is like going down a, I don't know, a back farm field. I love farms
but you know what ! mean. And they don't repair it. The town comes and repairs it. It is a cost
to our town. I see them all the time coming down Pequash with tar, of our town expense,
because the SCWA mined our streets. And please, be very broad minded on this because there is
only a limited amount of water in our town. Riverhead doesn't want to sell their rights for the
water authority to go through them to get to the Pine Barrens, that is a given. They are pumping
now from Riverhead but they don't want them to come through there to get the big source of
water, so when they keep pumping, we will run out of water which is has already happened in
Shelter Island and that SCWA had to truck water into Shelter Island. So it has already happened
there. We have to be really comprehensive, well we are doing the plan but I think it is going to
take too long because these guys are really pushing for this. Maybe we should call them Sarah
Palin, drill baby drill. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Would somebody like to address the Town Board on this issue?
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Does the water authority want to get up and respond?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: What I would do is actually ask you and I recognize the nature of
this meeting is, but I would like to ask questions if you would come up so we can get some
questions answered but this is a meeting about gathering information. I am trying to get some
information. But I realize the contentious nature of this whole issue but I am asking everybody,
you have been very polite and I appreciate it, we just want to continue with that. First of all, you
know one of the issues with the 12 inch water main is the potential for future service and if that
is what you are looking to do, obviously it makes sense to put a 12 inch main in. There is a
canvass that we had raised at a Town Board meeting. The idea of 700 homes in Orient, the issue
is if you are going to bring water because of the potential for them to hook into it, have you
canvassed the 700 homes to see if there is even any interest there. I know the environmental
facilities corp was concerned about local interest or local support for the project. I was
wondering if you went to those homeowners who we proposed a service and see if they have
responded in any affirmative way.
UNIDENTIFIED: Suffolk County Water Authority representative. Yes, we went to the homes
that are the subject of your local law ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay, that means only the 1447
UNIDENTIFIED: That is correct.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Not the...
UNIDENTIFIED: When I was here at the last Town Board meeting that was I was asked to do,
was to survey the people along the pipeline to see if they were interested.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I was the one that asked you and I thought you needed to do both
because the potential, if you are bringing a 4 inch main to service Brown's Hills I would suggest,
April 6, 2010 Page 65
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
you canvassed 144 but when you are proposing the 12 inch, you might want to think about
asking the 700, those are the potential customers that that water is ....
TIM HOPKINS: My name is Tim Hopkins and I am general counsel for the SCWA. We don't
have any finn plans to supply any other area other than that main. If you would like us to survey
the rest of Orient, we would be happy to survey and service the rest of Orient. If that is what the
people want.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: What was the survey at least for the 140 that you sent?
UNIDENTIFIED: We sent out 137 surveys, we had 40 total residents respond, 30 indicated they
were interested in hooking up, 17 immediately and 13 in the future. Out of that population, 10
requested water samples. Of the 10 who responded that they were not interested now or in the
future, six provided their names and addresses. Four did not. Out of the 10 not interested, two
made additional comments that they were against the installation itself. So in total it was about 3
to 1 in favor of the installation, of those people that did respond.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I am sorry, folks. Give us some credit.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: We can do the math, too.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We basically sent out 137 surveys and of that 30 people...
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Actually 17.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No, 13. Seventeen immediately and 13 later.
UNIDENTIFIED: 30 people wanted water, 10 did not.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay, we get all that. Let me ask you something. I remember when
Mike LoGrande was CEO and the quandary of Orient's water service at the time. Has there been
any thorough review of other means of providing clean drinking water? I heard a lady tonight
and I was just going to ask a follow up question of her before with reverse osmosis. I mean,
Orient Yacht club probably has some of the best drinking water around and there is no public
water there. But I think, you know, they have a filtration system.
UNIDENTIFIED: Reverse osmosis with a carbon backup.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: With a carbon backup.
UNIDENTIFIED: The best filtration you can get.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me ask...
UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible.
April 6, 2010 Page 66
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
UNIDENTIFIED: It is too expensive for the municipalities to put reverse osmosis systems into
their equipment but as I told you before, competitively GE (inaudible) realizing that there was
this breakdown, have created these affordable systems that you can put in a home. You can put
in your system, you can get rid of rust, you can get rid of nitrates, you can get rid of bacteria,
chlorine, you name it.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me just ask, the servicing you mentioned before the $100-$200
for servicing, how many times a year do you require that?
UNIDENTIFIED: Once.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Once a year? Thank you.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Does your engineer want to respond to the osmosis?
UNIDENTIFIED: What is the question?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Has the water authority looked at other option? If there is a
collective body out there that has water issues and some do and some don't, has there been any
discussion of the other options for good drinking water such as in house filtration systems, things
like that?
UNIDENTIFIED: I am not sure exactly what studies have been formed but I would pose a
question to you, what difference does it make because basically what you are demonstrating is
that you can have water without a public water main. You can do it. You can have treatment
and I tell you that because you can do that without a water main, you can have all the
development in the world without a water main because you can have your reverse osmosis
treatment system, you can have ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Suffolk County Department of Health won't approve subdivision.
INAUDIBLE COMMENTS FROM UNIDENTIFIED PEOPLE
UNIDENTIFIED: You can have all those private treatment systems and you can all the
development. The point being is, the public water is not going to cause the development. What
causes the development are the people who want to develop the property. Who controls what
development occurs? You control what development occurs, not us. You can have that
development with public water or you can have it developed with private well with reverse
osmosis treatment systems. The availability of public water does not determine the land use
because you can have a private filter system and it could provide all the water in the world to that
project, okay? So it is not the public water that causes the development. It is the application that
is brought to the town and if the town approves that application, then the development will occur.
It has nothing to do with the availability of public water.
April 6, 2010 Page 67
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
UNIDENTIFIED: If I could just add one thing, the legislative intent of the local law that we are
here today for a public heating on talks about the water authority and the health department
representing that there are public health concerns about the water quality out there and I think
you have heard that, I just wanted to let you know that we have provided some paper information
here today which include how to navigate to all the private well data from Orient going back to
1997, that is on our website for anybody to read. They can read all the health department
information, we wanted to provide evidence and lots of it to support the contention that you
make in the legislative intent that we are representing that there is a public health drinking water
problem which we are representing that there is.
UNIDENTIFIED: And we would sincerely encourage people to go to the site, see what
contaminants are in private water systems out there. You should take a look at it. Then you
should take a look at the health impacts that are listed on the EPA's website to see what those
health impacts do to people. Inaudible.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me, I, just so you know, I have asked the public to address the
Board so that we don't have and because it will probably work to your disadvantage sooner or
later. So let's say just I appreciate your comments, Freddie, you have been patient can I just ask
you to please ....
MS. WACHSBERGER: No, no. I just wanted to say maybe this gentleman didn't hear my
opening remarks but the fact is that those two big developments in the 1980's were defeated
specifically because there was not adequate aquifer support. So that the gentleman was saying
that we could have, we could put in our own filters and have development anyway is simply not
true.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay. Let me just get this lady. John, I will get to you after this
lady.
UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No, you really do have to ask the Board. I am sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. For some time (inaudible) why change if(inaudible)
UNIDENTIFIED: Because it is not perfectly adequate water. It only provides five gallons a
day.
UNIDENTIFIED: I live in Brown's Hills and the water is fine. We get plenty of it. Thanks for
the water authority maintaining the pumps, you guys do a terrific job. I just want to read from a
USGS study on contaminants in public wells, okay, and one of the interesting things is when you
start pumping really large quantities of water at public wells is the age of the water gets younger
and to make a very technical topic less technical, when the age of the water gets younger, it gets
more contaminants in it, fight, so here are the references. This is a circular USGS circular ....
April 6, 2010 Page 68
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: So water is like wine, the older the better?
UNIDENTIFIED: Exactly right. On the nose. This is circular 1292 from the USGS, here is a
total of all the contaminants, it basically says on page 36 that in public wells and as you know,
the SCWA owns 90% of the community wells in Suffolk County, the following VOC's were
detected more frequently (inaudible) counterintuitive, and then on page 38 it says particularly in
the mid-Atlantic and New England states this concentration is more probable, right and then of
course it goes on to say that urban land use contributes more VOC's to groundwater than any
other land use.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Y(~u can go right after her. There was someone over here that stood.
Oh, John. I am sorry.
JOHN HOLZAPFEL: No, no problem. Two questions for you to ask them.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay.
MR. HOLZAPFEL: Okay, first Linda Apostle asked you before the position that the Board has
in terms of Suffolk county, whether you can decide in public hearing whether you can stop them
or whatever. I would lille you to ask them their opinion of that same line. In other words, do
they believe they can do it without your permission or do they need your permission?
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Can they do it or can they use public money to do it.
MR. HOLZAPFEL: Either way. I will put it either way. And the second part of that is this is
just a technical thing, are they guaranteed a profit? In other words, I think LIPA is guaranteed
that 5% they can make over whatever it costs them as built into their economy. Are they
guaranteed a profit on their work for their own company, for the bond holders or whatever? Let
me try to explain what happened. For instance, with Shoreham power plant, LILCO at the time,
LIPA put it on line. That was $5 billion to their basis and they were guaranteed a profit of 5% by
the state and there words in the charter that made the authority, they were given a 5% profit on
their basis. Do they have that same arrangement, in other words, is this $4 million increasing
their basis so that they can charge their customers more money?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That is a question I will ask. Yes, please.
UNIDENTIFIED: The SCWA is a local authority and not a gubernatorial authority like the
MTA and the Port Authority and LIPA. We do not report to the public service commission, the
public service commission does provide for tax breaks and incentives both for public service
commission regulated utilities to invest in their systems. SCWA is a local authority, we sell
water to people and we use that money to reinvest in our system. So we do not have
stockholders or shareholders and we put the money back into our system so there is no advantage
to us to be doing investing the same way that a PSC utility schedules their investment. As to the
matter of the timing of the project as you mentioned Mr. Supervisor, we have had a cooperative
agreement with the Town of Southold for many years. You are proposing a local law, we are in
April 6, 2010 Page 69
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
favor of it. We hope that you consider it in a timely fashion. Our board has authorized the
project, we have closed on the financing with facilities, environmental facilities corporation, our
board is prepared to fund the whole project regardless of whether there are federal funds or not
involved.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That means if we say no, it doesn't matter. In the interest of clarity,
if we don't amend the water map...
UNIDENTIFIED: That is correct.
INAUDIBLE COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: What I am asking is, what John Holzapfel had asked is, if the Board
doesn't amend the water map, is that, am I correct John? Will the project move forward
anyway? And that refers to a question from Ms. Apostle and what are the consequences here of
us saying no? And your answer is you are going to.
VENETIA HANDS: Venetia Hands. I think I just heard him say that the Board has voted to go
ahead with this project even if they don't get the stimulus funds. Is that correct?
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Or our approval.
MS. HANDS: Or our approval. But what they have just done is they have taken the time
pressure off you. We have had this problem about there is only stimulus fund money available
up to a certain point so that if you delay or say no now, those funds will go away and they have
said they wouldn't do it then. That has just been taken off the table. We can now delay and do
this properly because they are going to spend all the money that is necessary. I thank them very,
very much for that.
MS. DACIMO: Just to get off this discussion for a moment, you were asking about reverse
osmosis systems?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes.
MS. DACIMO: I am not an expert on it but my husband and I had looked into a whole house
reverse osmosis system, we don't have a basement, we are near the water, we would not have
been able to put that in for a whole house system because of the huge backwash tank that we
would have to have. We had to go with the water softening treatment because we don't just want
one faucet treated.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay, thank you.
INAUDIBLE COMMENT FROM AUDIENCE
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I was asking questions, she gave me some answers and thank you
April 6, 2010 Page 70
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
very much. Thank you. I am going to go to him first because you did get to speak once.
REG TUTHILL: I am Reg Tuthill, we own a few acres of land in Orient and it seems to me that
we are supposed to have all the various rights of our property, etc. We adjoin Brown's Hills, we
have four pieces of farmland which the Latham family farms. We have plenty of water and it
seems to me that these people have the right to get these well points in various areas and I hear
that maybe there is a possibility that Riverhead would like to not get those guys through to water
wells in Westhampton or wherever the Pine Barrens water comes from. We pump a lot of water
for the farms and it has been there for many, many years. It sounds to me like water is like oil
today. If those guys can run pipes wherever they wish to and they take the water away from us,
let's say that they can't take the water from Orient and pump it west okay, and we, our family, as
a landowner that has underground fights as well, I want to know what the technicality and the
legal area is that let's these guys come in and go under your ground and take the water. Second
of all, we have five, seven, eight tax bills a year which we pay taxes on and not one of our people
on our property have received this so-called questionnaire about whether you want water. We
are on the Main Road in four different places. So, I would like to know where these were mailed
to and to whom?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I can speak to that. The agreement that was created in 2001 would
allow for the hookup of existing wells. So unless those properties had an approved, you know, it
was improved with a dwelling with an existing well, they wouldn't have gotten a letter. The
canvass wasn't intended to canvass vacant land, that is the antithesis of what we wanted to see.
MR. TUTHILL: We have got houses on these.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: You have got houses and they haven't received them. I can't speak
to that.
MR. TUTHILL: So I am saying here that, I am saying when do you get treated fairly and
squarely?. It sounds to me, this is the biggest rip off going. And Mr. Mudd, he summed this up
really very, very well. And it seems to be somewhere along the line, we have got to stop this
because who runs who? This is a democracy. If these people can come in and say they can run
over eight pieces of my property, I don't want them to come near my property. I don't need to
have the havoc of the roads and everything being torn up for their self gain..So if they are a
private corporation and you know when they are a private corporation all they are is supposed to
be non-taxable, whatever that be and all they have to do with all the equipment that is over in
Oakdale that Mr. Mudd spoke about, at the end of the year, they put it into that investment so
that they end up with zero and they know how much money they want to declare for themselves
and who they want to pay off and I daresay that somebody probably in these health department,
these guys work hand in hand and I would like to do an investigation to see whether or not any of
these people are being paid off, going to any ski resorts or going down to the islands or going all
these various places because I smell a rat. And I daresay you had better take (inaudible, and we
want to go after those guys because we want the record straight. Thank you.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you, Reg.
April 6, 2010 Page 71
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
TOM COSTA: Tom Costa, Orient. From what I understand, regardless of what the elected
officials say, this pipeline can go through and regardless of what the people of Orient say, this
line can go through. So to me it sounds like a dictatorship. I don't feel like I am living in
America anymore. When the big guys can just do what they want, just put up all the attorneys,
all the lawyers and just keep pushing and pushing and if they don't get it this year, they will get
it six months from now or a year from now or two years from now but they have got it in their
head, I am getting in there, I am getting in there and I am going to keep on pushing. And that
makes me sick.
UNIDENTIFIED: That the government giveth, maybe the government can take away and I
would ask you as our local representatives because I find these guys incredibly arrogant, they are
a monopoly. They are a public monopoly. There should some way to stop them. I intend to use
every power that I have to see if we can stop them. I have already written to Attorney General
Cuomo because when they applied to the state for the stimulus funds, they said they were going
to service 700 households. Well, there sure as hell are a lot of people who do not want them, so
that was a spurious application, I think they need to be investigated and I do think they need to
be stopped and I would ask you as our local representatives to do everything in your power to see
if we can use legal means to stop them, not only from this pipeline but to reexamine the basis
that they exist. If they are not paying taxes on all this land in Southold, if they are pulling as
much water as Mr. Mudd has pointed out, out of a public aquifer, I think it is time we called this
authority, this monopoly, to account.
MELANIE NORDEN: Melanie Norden, Greenport. Is it at all possible to rescind the present
water map that you passed? Obviously none of these water maps will have any authority. I
definitely underscore all of this conversation is useless now because the arrogance of the SCWA
makes it very clear that we have no option but litigation. But you could consider the possibility
of rescinding present water maps and creating no water maps at all ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I would...
MS. NORDEN: So that, I don't know, is the answer, have you considered litigation?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We have certainly, you know, we are a shrewd group. We talk
about all our options and what the outcomes might be either way but I think it would be
imprudent to rescind that water map since that water map specifically doesn't provide for water
across the causeway. We have a history with the SCWA, a lot of our litigation is going to be
based on that litigation and prior past practice.
MS. NORDEN: Right.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That is the cornerstone of our relationship with them. I wouldn't
want to rescind that and take one of the legs out of any type of, you know, I can't sit here and
discuss legal strategy but rest assured, the Town Board is very aware of you know, the various
outcomes and ....
April 6, 2010 Page 72
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
MS. NORDEN: But were you aware of the fact that this would be the outcome tonight, that in
fact a public hearing was a kind of presumably useless procedure because of the fact that they
can do anything they want to do anyway?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Of course I was. We had to spend the last year and a half trying to
drag them into a public hearing because in the beginning they said well, we don't really need one
and you know, this Town Board has been clear and concise from day one despite accusations
that we had to be dragged to table which weren't true. We have been insistent on them following
the procedure that was established a long time ago with their board and the previous Town Board
that sat here in 2001. Their own board adopted that water map and adopted that whole policy
and we are asking them to adhere to that historic agreement. Ultimately, it resulted in this public
hearing but I really don't want to go any further with the legal discussion.
MS. NORDEN: No, I understand. Let me just also ask, prima facie it seems that it is prejudicial
for any body to extend certain fees to certain residents in the Town of Southold and forgive fees
or not extend fees to others. So many people who live in Southold have had to pay exorbitant
fees for water hookups, so speaking as a resident not of Orient, I think that we should ask the
authority to actually revert and give back all of those fees if in fact they are going to give free
water main access to some people. It should have been to all people and it should be retroactive.
Otherwise it is prejudicial against all other residents of the Town of Southold not of Orient who
have had to pay and businesses who have had to pay for hookups. So what is good for all
residents of the Town of Southold has to be applied equally under the law. So you can't, as a
board, really allow an authority, commission whatever it is, to come in and offer one deal to a
certain village or hamlet and not the same deal to everybody else. And that is just another small
point but I don't know, I am not sure that everybody in the audience understands. I didn't come
here tonight with the understanding that this was a process that was useless. And in fact ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I wouldn't suggest that it is and again, some of those issues might
need to be tested ....
MS. NORDEN: Right.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: But we are taking this process seriously, we would hope the water
authority would as well. If they don't, we will cross that bridge when we get to it.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: One thing that, Mr. Tuthill you asked about possibly drilling out
there in Orient by the SCWA, I did ask that question of Mr. Jones at one of the work sessions
and he stated they had no intention of drilling any new wells out in Orient.
INAUDIBLE COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Well, no, and he also, the other part of that there was, they did say
that there was going to be a cost. I don't think they ever said it was going to be free. It was
going to be, the estimated cost was $2,300 I think, at that work session. To tap. I don't think
April 6, 2010 Page 73
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
anybody is getting a free hookup.
UNIDENTIFIED: I have got news for you, that Brown's Hills, they used to be owned by the
Brown's family on my wife's side. Okay? A lot of this land has been in the family since 1640,
okay?. We have never had a water problem. Brown's Hills, right next door, okay, we can go
down in the Latham farm can go out there and they pump as much as 500 gallons an hour for 24
hours when they have dry spells. And the water is great. People drink it every day.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: I heard, Mr. Latham did say that to us, when I was out in Orient.
UNIDENTIFIED: And not only that, we have right across the street because we own from the
sound to the bay in all those areas. When you come into Orient, the Latham farm stand, we own
all that property. We own the property across the street. Okay? And to hear that guy over there
tell, that he can do whatever he wants to, he is going to have a battle on his hands and we are
going to make sure (inaudible).
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: You know, you could ask if they could get that $2.9 million
transferred over to Orient and you could, I have said it before, you could create the Orient water
district. Draw your own well out there.
MR. TUTHILL: You know, down in the islands, all down through the islands you know, they
set up these salinization plants and there is all sorts of ways to create water. You know, they got
these great big cruise ships on the water now carrying 5,000 passengers. They have six great big
engines that run it and between the shafts of the engines, they generate their electricity, they have
the desalinization plants, they do everything. Pools are salt water, all that type of thing and there
is no reason you can't do it in Orient.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me...
MR. TUTHILL: We feel sorry for the people who bought that, like the DeSimones, we like
them very much but fact where they bought, it was built right on the edge of the water and I
don't mean to say that, you know that that was your choice. But that was the idea, when you
bought that house, you have to take the problems that come with it. And we, I am saying to you,
I feel sorry for your problems but you knew when you bought it, the problems that were coming
with it.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Mr. Tuthill, not everybody, obviously not everybody has the land
that you have and not everybody has clean water.
MR. TUTHILL: Inaudible.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me just ....
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: No and I think that you guys are a model for your area.
April 6, 2010 Page 74
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me just speak to your land, we actually are familiar with the
land you own. The Town would like tO own it someday. Let's talk.
MR. TUTHILL: Okay. Let's talk. Okay, you guys standing up there, let's take care of these
problems facing us today.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I agree.
UNIDENTIFIED: You know, I think I am at risk here of restating the obvious but just to wrap
up, I am sure we are all waiting to go to dinner, what do these people do right? They mess up
people's roads, they don't patch them correctly. We were at one of you all's working sessions
and Mr. King I think his name is, came in and said my god, we just put in a new road, they tore
through, they haven't patched it up, they are legally obligated to do so. They didn't even give it
you know, four square shot. Their water is full of chlorine, we don't know where it is coming
from. Everything about, you know, I agree with the other person that said this, I think it was Mr.
Tuthill and I am happy to respect my elders by deferring to his opinion which is, no, I was raised
that way. You are respectful of your elders and he is not terribly older, is he? The point is, is
that this deal stinks to high heaven. It just stinks. It stinks. And we have tried to be reasonable.
All we want is the proper legislation, the proper protections. And they come in and say that they
are going to do it come hell or high water, terrible pun, I say to everyone here, it is time to go to
the attorney general. I would love to join with the town, Mr. Tuthill, Mrs. Tuthill. I think it is
time to go to the law and say we have the poster child for a misbehaved public authority that is
bound and determined to do what the citizens of the north fork, Southold Town, do not want to
do. The citizens have researched it to death, made every possible argument for not accepting
their waters and they just keep on tracking. I say it is time to go to Andrew Cuomo and just beat
these folks back because they apparently don't get it.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I just want to remind everybody that this is a public hearing. I
don't, I can't predispose what the Board is going to vote for, I will just let you know early that
we are certainly aware of all the different options and all the different scenarios that we might
need to contend with.
MS. WACHSBERGER: I just wanted to get back to an earlier thing that Bob DeLuca said, I
mean, I find it terrifying that these people can go right ahead and do this without the proper
safeguards. Therefore, maybe we should consider asking you guys to do the freeze on zoning
that Mr. DeLuca suggested.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: What the request was actually for a moratorium on applications for
change of zone. All that moratorium would do was tie the hands of this board when, I think I can
tell you as a board member that I am not going for a change of zone that is going to increase
density, residential density in Orient. I will tell you that without a moratorium. We couldn't
legally tie the hands of a future board. And that is where a lot of concern is with the public. As I
have talked to them and I went and met with Linton Duell and some others, the concern is what
happens in the future. Any moratorium that we could pass would only, would only just able us.
April 6, 2010 Page 75
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
MS. WACHSBERGER: Just for the length of time until the new plan is ....
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I think the resounding message tonight was okay but not yet. I
mean, I heard that loud and clear. And I think that is something the Board needs to take very
seriously. How we get there is the strategy we will need to talk about.
MS. WACHSBERGER: I just want to add a point of clarification because one of you Board
members said that Mr. Jones had said, oh, we have no interest in drilling wells in Orient, well, as
with the Town Board here, the water authority personnel can and does change and at the 1996
meeting when Mr. LoGrande came out and spoke to a packed Poqautuck Hall in Orient and said
that the authority has come to Orient with two separate missions, the first is to guarantee safe
water for the 24 house, souls in Brown's Hills and I don't need to go into any of that, we all
know about it but he went on to talk about the problems with nitrates and things and said so
SCWA quote and this is a quote from LoGrande and since I wrote this newsletter and I am a
professional journalist, I guarantee I got it right, said 'is trying to buy and secure sites says
LoGrande as a backup, so if homeowners have problems in the future 'we could just hook them
up' he insisted that the authority 'is not asking for customers in Orient. Bringing water over the
causeway would be too expensive' adding that 'this is an area that should have growth controls'
and people in the audience wondered if SCWA wouldn't inevitably need to justify owning land
in Orient by finding new customers. LoGrande said the authority has no customers for its new
site in Peconic, so forth asked how important it is to get them he replied, we can wait a few
years.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. I do want the public to understand that there is a
changing dynamic at the SCWA. Mr. LoGrande as a resident of the town and Mr. Jones who has
a history with this town, have I think been historically more sensitive to the issues that we face.
But there is a changing dynamic there and the Town Board is certainly is very aware of it. Mr.
LoGrande is long retired and Mr. Jones, my understanding is retiring soon. The Town Board is
very aware of the changing dynamic up there and the mindset is more west end driven. We are
very cognizant of that and certainly have had numerous discussions on our strategies.
UNIDENTIFIED: Very quickly, you just said that what you hear is not yet. I say no. I think
these guys have got to be clipped. I think that they have literally said war here. They are going
ahead despite what you say and despite what anybody says. And I think that we need to stop
them and I think perhaps we need to consider removing their status and replacing them with
something else that works better in the 20th century.
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And as far as everyone's time here, it was well spent. We thank
you. We appreciate everyone for coming out, it is part of the process and we are moving
forward.
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: As a Board we had a good idea, Melanie, that the water authority
could put the water main in without our approval, we had no idea that they would until just now
when we found out ourselves. So you found out the same time we did.
April 6, 2010 Page 76
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: But we certainly had plenty of strategy discussions on should that be
a scenario. Their intentions was, you know, we didn't get into that. We know what the options
are and we are looking at all of our options. Can I just ask anybody that would like to address
the issue with regard to the public hearing? Please. I am going to go the people that haven't
spoken yet and they we will.
JOAN TURTURRO: Joan Turturro. I have one question, can you ask the gentleman fi.om the
water authority. If they are going to go ahead and put in the pipe no matter what, what happens if
nobody hooks into it?
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Well, that is, that is why I asked weeks ago to canvass the
community, the very community you purport to service with a 12 inch main, go out and ask the
community if there is any interest in it? A public benefit corporation ought to ....
COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And all the other people who are already hooked up are going to
pay for it.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Can I just ....
COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Alright, we will ask you that question.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: Well, he said he had 30 people that agreed to hookup, right?
INAUDIBLE COMMENTS FROM AUDIENCE
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Split that cost 30 ways, it is about $100,000 a house. Reggie, do
you want to speak?
MR. TUTHILL: I am sure I could go door to door in Orient and I bet I would get 500 or 600
signatures against it. And second of all, I think we have a lot of lawyers in town.
COUNCILMAN TALBOT: That could be a bad thing.
MR. TUTHILL: We could sit down and if we got 50 lawyers, we could give them, you know,
divide and conquer, them going 50 different ways. Because as long as each guy is going to take
up a suit against them, okay, we will let them spend their money to defend themselves.
Inaudible. If you are going to be as ruthless as they are tonight. Inaudible.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let's talk about strategies if and when we need to get their. Please?
BILL RYALL: Hi, my name is Bill Ryall and I live in Brown's Hills and for many of you, it
seems you may not be aware there is already litigation which residents of Brown's Hills and
other residents of Orient brought against the water authority and I think it would be fair to say
that if it were not for that litigation, we would not be sitting here tonight. We would be looking
up, probably looking at the cleanup operation after the well already had been put in the ground.
April 6, 2010 Page 77
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
One thing which the litigation accomplished which I am not sure that was even the intention is
that it raised a ruckus in Albany and the water, the money has been delayed to pay for this. At
least for the federal stimulus money has been delayed. Now of course, we have been told it
doesn't matter about that anyway but if the well was, if this water line was such a good idea with
the money, I wonder why it wasn't such a good idea before this free money ever showed up.
The other thing is, the people are talking about 700 people to use this 12 inch water line, I think
it is actually sized for up to 1,000 users, so it is everybody plus a few hundred more who could
potentially be using that water line. The application for the federal money was for bringing a 12
inch pipeline to serve Brown's Hills plus whoever else immediately adjacent to the line wanted
it, if they already had a well and wanted to connect to a line. So really Brown's Hills is 23
houses, so I don't know the math, the arithmetic here, but what was it? Over $150,000 per house
of taxpayers money to Brown's Hills, so obviously we knew the whole thing was a fraud, a lie to
begin with and certainly money would never be spent for 23 houses that way and I am not sure
this is relevant but there are only five house that are fulltime residents out there anyway. We are
talking about second homes for most people, vacation houses. Federal money spent for that.
This has been known in this town for a year. And now we are talking about this tonight. So, no,
on a smaller technical matter, I actually had a well at my house on Brown's Hills only because I
have a geo-thermal heating and cooling system. I am specifically prohibited by the health
department from using that well for drinking water. But I did manage to get a test performed on
the water out of that well last October, although the testing authority said there were not sure
they were even allowed to test that water because it is not for drinking water and I said, I am
paying you and you will do that test. So I actually got a test which surprised me, it is completely
safe drinking water out of my well on Brown's Hills but instead we pay a flat rate quarterly to
have the water pumped out of the contaminated well, the shallow contaminated well, at the
bottom of the polluted farm field so we can run it through reverse osmosis filters underneath our
sinks and drink what is actually much better water by quality than what the water authority will
provide us after they or if they were to put in this pipeline and part of the deal is they will take
the reverse osmosis filter away because they will technically pass state standards, even though
what they are selling us, selling us, whether we want it or not, is an inferior product. Whether it
comes from, whether it is pumped from underneath a farm field right outside below our houses
or whether it is pumped from underneath a fertilized golf course in East Marion or in Riverhead
doesn't really matter to us, we don't need it and we don't want it. But there is no way we can
disconnect now. We absolutely cannot disconnect. Because the law prohibits us. The law is
written for this little group over here to do as they please to us and to you. And it is very nice,
this has been a wonderful evening, I am glad that it has been educational for all of us but I do
really think that the town should be more proactive in this matter. The town issued, although we
did not want to sue the town, we were forced to sue the town as well as the water authority
because an organ of the Town, the Trustees, issued a permit allowing the line to be put in under
Dam Pond. It only went that far. So not only are we to pretend that this almost $4 million line,
paid for out of tax money, is for 23 houses. But it also is only going, if you look at the other
application to the Trustees, it is only going under Dam Pond. Why?. So we don't have to ask
anyone what happens after that. So, it is complete, the story changes every time you look at it.
Now New York State governor's office is congratulating itself for getting federal money to pay
for water for 700 houses, that is not how the application was made, that is nothing but political
cover. So, welcome to New York State, welcome to Long Island. This is the way it operates
April 6, 2010 Page 78
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
here but we are asking for your help and we would all like to work together on this.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes, let me just tell you, in terms of the town being proactive, first
of all, I don't think you will meet a group of people that have a more cynicism towards the
Department of Health and the SCWA than the six sitting here. Seven counting Tom. Honestly,
you are looking at farmers who deal with the travesties every day. But as we have been from the
beginning, what we have is a process, we have been insistent on following the process. I do have
to tell you though, the Brown's Hills lawsuit which really puts stimulus money in jeopardy, was
the attention getter that was needed by all parties and I concur with you on that.
MS. WACHSBERGER: Can I just say everybody who feels the same way we do should
contribute money to this lawsuit? Because it has gotten very expensive, very few people are the
principal plaintiffs in this and it would certainly help if the people who feel strongly that this was
a very important thing to do should contribute money and the money can be contributed through
the Group for the East End.
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Good idea. Would anybody else like to talk on the public hearing?
These night meetings tend to go so long. (No response) Can I get a motion to adjourn? Okay,
we are going to leave the public hearing open for another two weeks. I am going to get a motion
for that, again, for the very narrow purpose of receiving comment from the Suffolk County
Planning Commission, the LWRP coordinator, the determination of the SEQRA and also any
written comment that anyone wants to make.
This hearing was closed at 8:06 PM. The heating was left open to receive written comments
within the next two(2) week period.
RESULT: CLOSED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: William Ruland, Councilman
SECONDER: Vincent Orlando, Councilman
AYES: Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell
Closing Comments
SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I just want to see if anybody has any comment on any of the other
issues? I don't think so but usually at the end of each meeting we will let people comment on all
the other issues with regard to the Town. I didn't want to pass up that. But the Town Board
does want to have an Executive Session after this particular meeting, would anybody like to
address the Town Board on any other issue? (No response)
Motion To: Adjourn Town Board Meeting
RESOLVED that this meeting of the Southold Town Board be and hereby is declared adjourned at 8:06
P.M.
April 6, 2010 Page 79
Southold Town Board Meeting Minutes
Southold Town Clerk
RESULT: ADOPTED [UNANIMOUS]
MOVER: Vincent Orlando, Councilman
SECONDER: Albert Kmpski Jr., Councilman
AYES: Ruland, Orlando, Talbot, Krupski Jr., Evans, Russell