HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-04/14/1988 Hearing TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1988
Appl. NO. 3719
Applicant(s): Southold Savings Bank
Location of Property: 1400 Railroad Avenue, Southold
County Tax Map ID NO. 1000- 60-£-]0.4 (prey. ]0.2 and ]0.3)
Board Members present: Chairman Goehringer p. Goehringer,
Members: Doyen, Douglass, Grigonis and Sawicki.
Also present were approximately 40 persons in the audience, and- Linda
Kowalski, Secret. ary of Zoning Board of Appeals. (Mr. Lessard
Administrator for the Building Department was absent.) '
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:32 o'clock p.m.
and read the legal notice of hearing and application for the
record. -
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The first item off the agenda is the interim
decision of Charles Zahra which is a series of public hearings tkat
we have had and I'll read exerpts from that before we vote on it.
It reads as follows: that the Board hereby finds that serious fac-
tual and legal issues exist regarding the validity of the Building
Permit under section 100-118 the Zoning Code and the State Building
Code. These issues go to the very heart of the permit and should
be resolved at this juncture. Since no vested rights have been ob-
tained under the illegal permit, it would appear to be in the appli-
cantSs best interest to have these issues resolved now in addition
to the limited questions the applicant formerly presented to the
Board. Nor can this Board close its eyes to the issues revealed
in the record concerning the appropriateness of a permit to this.
The Building Permit is Southold Savings Bank, appeal No. 3719. The
Legal Notice reads as follows; a site plan produced by Donald A.
Denis. The mos5 recent date is August 28, 1986. Penned in is the
approximate location of the sign, approximately 6 feet from what
appears to be the approximate edge of the property line and approxi-
mately 14 feet from the curb cut or the curb that's being installed
in front of this building. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County
Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Is
there somebody who would like to be heard? How are you Mr. Lark?
MR. LARK: Good evening. I represent the applicant, Southold Savings
Bank. As indicated by the petition, the sign as proposed, does not
follow the strict requirements of the ordinance on the one respect
that it has to be four feet above the ground. But as indicated in
the petition, to locate it four feet above the ground keeping with
architecture and landscaping of the building. If the Board has seen
Page 2 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Southold Savings Bank
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
MR. LARK (continued):
the building, it is a two-story structure. And due to the land-
scaping in the front of the building by putting some of the hum-
mocks and stuff the landscaper has, it's trying not to create the
raising of the building but the lowering of the building from a
perception of standing or riding in the street. As indicated in
the application, the variance of two and a half feet, is not sub-
stantial in relationship to the requirement of four feet. And the
purpose of the sign is an identification sign as you can see in
the exhibit which is attached to the petition. The granting of
the variance will produce no change in the character of the neigh-
borhood which is, as I indicated, mixed in nature of both business
and residential. And the applicant has explored other ways of lo-
casing this identification sign. And due to the way the architec-
ture of the building, it was decided it would not be a good idea
to fasten it to the building but to put it in the area which is
indicated on the site plan. Originally, it was thought by the ap-
plican~ when the~ ~ha~ ~he~P~ann-ing Board's ~pproval foX'it, that it
was all encompassed in their approval when they found out later from
the Building Inspector as you see in the notice of approval, that
because it was not four feet off the ground, it would not pass ap-
proval without Board of Appeals. So that's why we're here and I
respectfully move that the interest of justice would be served by
granting the application. Because the applicant can see no benefit
of putting the bottom of the sign four feet off the ground. It will
draw- more attraction to it and be more hideous. And when I inquired
of the Building Inspectors of the rationale of having the sign four
feet off the ground, especially an identification sign like this and
not an advertisement like billboard or something like that, he could
not explain the rationale for it. Initially, he tried to tell me
that so you could see under it if you're in the car and it wouldn't
obstruct vision. But then when I pointed out that that presupposed
it would be on one or two posts. That would be the only obstruction.
It doesn't have to be. It could be a solid all the way to the ground
and not part of the sign itself. He just threw up his hands and said
you'll have to go to the Board of Appeals to get a variance. But I,
respectfully, I think it fits in the criteria of an area variance that
there are practical difficulties in that it would detract from the
building to elevate that sign four feet in height and there is no
practical place without taking away from the building that you could
fasten it to the building. And as indicated in the application, it
is already existed. It's only been open a month, the building, a
little less than a month. A confusion of directing people that need
to go to the loan center end up in the main office. So that was the
whole purpose of the sign. Originally, they were going to try maybe
not to do it but then again, it created--- the public, where is it,
where do I go routine_and it's creased a lot of confusion. So they
feel they do need a sign out in front and that's the reason for the
application.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: For the record Mr. Lark, this would be the
third sign of this nature that we would be granting. The first one
was the Southwind Condominium Project on the North Road, County Road
48 between Southold and Greenport. The second one was North Fork
Bank Corp. So this would, if my mind and memory is correct, the
Page 3 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Pubic Hearing - Southold Savings Bank
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER (continued):
third one that we would be dealing with. The only question that
I had and was that based upon, and I understand that these signs
are extremely expensive to produce, the applicant does not feel
that there will be any obstruction of traffic.
MR. LARK: No. That was looked at quite carefully. And the ap-
plicant with the custodian, Mr. Wheeler, put up like two by fours
and stuff like that. And where it is located coming in and out of
the driveway, more likely out of the driveway, it does not obst~u~c
any vision looking to the north towards the railroad tracks at that
point. It does not. In fact, one of the considerations was that if
we raised it higher, it would. So the North Fork sign people said
no, 18 inches won't interfer with the maintenance of the lawn and
you can clear off and you can see over even in one of the European
type cars.. You can see beyond that. Besides the fact of where it
is situated, you have clearance on either side of it too to see any
kind of oncoming traffic to the south which is the main concern°
That was one of my concerns initially, would it obstruct it and it
does not.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I understand there is some timeliness involved
in reference to the granting of this application.
MR. LARK: Yes. If the Board would move on it one way or another,
they wanted to have their grand opening and to get the final coo.
approval. The Building Inspector has only given temporary approval.
And so rather than do it half baked, they felt if they could get the
whole thing in, so if the Board would if they haven't seen it, go out
and take a look at where the proposed area is. And if they have, we
would respectfully move that you do pass it at your earliest conven-
ience.
CHAIRMAN GOE~RINGER: Thank you.
MR. LARK: Thank you very much. Are there any other questions?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I don't think so. It's pretty self explana-
tory. Thank you very much for all your time. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like
to speak against the application? Questions from Board members.
Hearing no further questions, I'll make a motion closing the hearing
reserving decision until later.
Ail in Favor - AYE.
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1988
Appl. No. 3716
Applicant(s): Robert E. Waldron, Jr.
Location of Property: 2980 Ole Jule Lane, Mattituck
County Tax Map ID NO. 1000- ]22-4-]7.
Board Members present: Chairman Goehringer P. Goehringer,
Members: Doyen, Douglass, Grigonis and Sawicki.
Also-present w~ere approximately 40-persons in the audience, and .. ~
Kowalski, Secretary of Zoning Board of Appeals (Mr. [essard~
AdminJstrat0r of the Bui]din§ Department was absent.)'
The Chairman opened the hearing 'at 7:46 o'clock p.m.
and read the legal notice of hearing and application for the
record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey produced by Peconic
Surveyors, most recent date is February 26, 1987 indicating a two -
story framed house with a tworcar garage I believe with an existing
stoop and existing wood deck. "The purpose of this application is to
encompass primarily that stoop, that existing wood deck. And I'll
ask the applicant the approximate size. And I have a copy of the Suf-
folk County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the
area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard? Are they present?
Could I just ask you to use the mike for one second. What is the ap-
proximate size, sir, of the new proposed project?
MR. ROBERT WALDRON
: It would be 12 feet by 38 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And this will be approximately 39 feet from
the edge of the wetlands or the edge of what we would refer to as
the bluff so to speak. I mean there is no bluff. And 46 feet from
mean high water. Will this deck be roofed at any time?
MR. WALDRON : No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Will there be any extensive lighting so as to
cause a problem with the immediate neighbor across the street or the
neighbor on the ..... ?
MR. WALDRON : No additional lighting will exist.
the same lighting that exists now.
It will be
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: And what really is the purpose of the deck.
To encompass everything?
MR. WALDRON : To take into both sets of sliding glass doors
along the rear of the house and to replace the existing deck which
is severely deteriorated and not in too good of shape.
Page 2 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Robert E. Waldron
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.very much. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like
to speak against the application? Questions from Board members?
Hearing no further questions, I'll close the hearing reserving de-
cision until later.
Ail in favor - AYE,
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1988
Appl. NO. 3575
Applicant(s): Rosa J. Hodgson
Location of Property: N/s Pine Neck Roand and S/s Lighthouse Lane.
County Tax Map ID NO. 1000- 70-6-33
Board Members present: Chairman Goehringer p. Goehringer,
Members: Doyen, Douglass, Grigonis and Sawicki.
Approximately 40 persons ih ~th~-~aud}6rme and .... Linda
Kowalski, Secretary of Zoning Board of Appeals., were present.
(Mr. Lessard, Building Dept. Administrator, was absent,)
The Chairman opened the hearing at 7:50 o'clock p.m.
and read the legal notice of hearing and application for the
record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey produced by Roderick
VanTuyl, P.C., the most recent date is January 2, 1979 and a copy of
a site plan of the entire parcel from Garrett Strango The most re-
cent date is September 26, 1986 indicating the existing cottage in
rather an irregular type of lot of approximate 45,000 square feet to
be set off. And I have a copy of the Suffolk Counsy Tax Map indi-
cating this and surrounding properties in the area. Would you like
to be heard Mr. Strang?
MR. STRANd: Good evening. The application, the reason for the ap-
plication was such that well over a year ago, maybe even a year and
a half ago, I had spoken and met with the Building Inspector, the
Building Office or Administrator, Victor Lessard to get the title
right not to offen~ him.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Executive Admins~rator.
MR. STRANG: With respect to the fact that we wanted to put an ad-
dition on the cottage that is referenced in our application. His
position was that he could not allow there to be any further con-
struction on that building since it does not meet the zoning in the
town whereby you are not permitted to have more than one residence
on a particular piece of property. That being the case, he denied
our application and it was referred to your Board in a round about
way. We had to go through the exercise of presenting to the Plan-
ning Board an application for setoff. The nature of the setoff is
in a little bit in excess of an acre. This is totally compatible
with the surrounding area and is also compatible with the intended
zoning under the proposed Master Plan. The grant of the site is
somewhat irregular in configuration. That was predicated by many
of the existing conditions that are there on the former estate.
The nature of our application to you is such that we're looking for
relief from the present two acre zoning to allow us to have a lot
less than two acres. And as the application reads, is approximately
45,000 square feet. And we submitted various back up documents to
your office as well as the Planning Board. I had received, some
time back, a letter from the Planning Board indicating that they
were in favor of the lot of substandard lot with present zoning.
Page 2 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Rosa J. Hodgson
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
MR. STRANG (continued):
Since that time, there's been some back and forth correspondence
between your Board and the Planning Board and my office as well.
At this evening's hearing, I'm hopeful that we'll be able to ad-
dress any questions this Board may have and thereby be able to
move once your decision is granted or rendered, be able to move
appropriately with the Planning Board.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there any reason why you didn't want to
go the 80,000 square feet?
MR. STRANG: Several reasons. One in particular is for the most
part, this Particular setoff is going to be on paper, if you will,
because the addition and the use of the cottage is going to be for
the son and daughter-in-law, the owner of the property. It is go-
ing to remain in the family. It's really a vehicle by which we
will be able to be permitted to put the addition on the building.
The other situation here has to do with the access to the site or
the site of the main house. And the way it's configured presently
and the 45,000 square configuration, it would permit the existing
driveway to be relocated if it ever had to be to still provide easy
access to the main house. And again, one of the reasons if we were
to delete a larger lot, it would encompass more of the existing
driveway and necessitate more of it to be relocated
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Is there a pre-existing c.o. on the cottage?
MR. STRANG: There is a pre-existing c.o. on the cottage.
a copy of it should be in the file.
I believe
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There's been no alteration of the driveway
at this particular point. It's going to remain the same.
MR. STRANG: The driveway is as shown on this survey.
been any relocation of the driveway at all.
There hasn't
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: What type of an addition are you going to deal
with in reference to the cottage? What's going to happen to the cot-
tage assuming?
MR. STRANG: We are adding to the east side of the cottage, approxi-
mately 24 by 36 one-story addition which will provide a living room,
dining room and kitchen area and a bathroom facility which will ser-
vice one of the bedrooms which will become the master bedroom. The
cottage is presently very small for the occupants. That being the
owner's son and daughter-in-law and their children.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINER: Alright. Thank you very much Mr. Strang. Is
there anybody else who would like to speak in favor of this appli-
cation? Anybody like to speak against the application? Questions
from Board members? Hearing no further questions, I'll make a motion
closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
Page 3 -'
Public He~
Southold
MR. S~RAB
hearing?
with the~
file ther,
cates tha'
and acces.
page 2 an~
I could s<
way which
able cond
CHAIRMAN
~hursday, April 14, 1988
{ring - Rosa J. Hodgson
~oning Board of .Appeals
Could I just add one more point before you close 'the
believe there was some question that arose to respect
iccess of the setoff site. And I believe you have in the
a copy of the deed to the property which clearly indi-
the right-of-way is granted to the property for travel
from Pine Road. Actually, it's defined more clearly on
3 of that document. And I also have some pictures 'that
bmit to the Board whiCh show the nature of the right-of
is paved, it's asphalt and certainly in more than service-
Ltion.
~OEHRINGER: Thank you.
Ail in favor - AYE.
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1988
Appl. No. 3707
Applicant(s): Joseph Fo Citardi
Location of Property: 56225 C.R. 48, Greenport
County Tax Map ID NO. 1000- 44~0]-22
Board Members present: Chairman Goehringer P. Goehringer,
Members: Doyen, Douglass, Grigonis and Sawicki.
Also present--re appr~)~ima%el~y 40 persons in the audience~ and Linda
Kowalski, Secretary of Zoning Board of Appeals. (Building
Department Administrator, Mr. Lessard was absent.)
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:00 o'clock p.m.
and read the legal notice of hearing and application for the
record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey produced by Peconic
Surveyors. The most recent date is October 8, 1987 indicating the
proposed new reconstruction and indicating, as it pertains and it
is actually superimposed over 'the above existing one-family, one-
story cottage that's there now. And I have a copy of the Suffolk
County Tax Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the
area. Is there somebody who would like to be heard? Just state
your name for the record sir.
MR. HADJI: My name is Roy Hadji and consultants for the appli-
cant, Joseph Cita~di who is also present. My apologies for ap--
pearing instead of Merlin Williams who was called away at the
last moment on a conflicting matter. The applicant, Mr. Citardi,
has owned the property since 1964. At the present time it is im-
proved with a small cottage and a shed which iM joined by the deck
on the n@rth side facing Long Island Sound. The parcel itself, con-
sists of a stable rock and cobble beach, then a broad band of woody
begetation primarily with rogosa rose followed on the south by a
lawn grassed area which extends all the way to the shoulder of CR
48. The owner intends to remove the existing structures and erect
a new larger home which is more suitable to his needs. As you will
see from the survey and site plan which you have been provided with,
the existing structure is extremely small. You have also been pro-
vided with a foundation plan showing the configuration of the pro-
posed structure. The house will no5 extend any further northward
than the existing deck which is in back of the woody band of vege-
tation. There appears to be no defined bluff line as there is a
gradual slope up to the beach to where it levels off upland. The
house will be setback, again, as per the survey, 70 feet towards
the west side and 90 feet towards the east side from the current
line of mean high water. The shore line is stable. We have a 1964
survey which shows the same depth of property. In fact there is a
slightly greater depth at the present time by about two feet. So
it does not appear that it is eroding. On the south side of the
house towards the east side of the property, a two-car is proposed
Page 2 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Joseph Citardi
Southold Town Board of Appeals
MR. HADJI (continued):
which would extend approximately 9 to 10 feet from the property
line. A variance from the specified frontyard setback of 35 is
requested. While this would sound like a significant variance,
we would point out that there is a large grassed area still re-.
maining between the property line and the actual pavement which
consists of 25 feet further beyond the property line to the road
pavement itself. We feel that the variances are warranted due to
the configuration and relative narrowness of the lot and the na-
ture of the existing development in the area. If you would refer
to the aerial photograph which I believe had been provided to you,
and note to the west of the property, virtually all the homes are
closer than the requested setbacks from both the Long Island Sound
and from the CR 48. The easterly side is not so. We can not claim
that that helps us. However, the situation there is that the shore
line bulges northward so that all of those lots are significantly
larger than the subject parcel and others to the west. So that they
do not have the similiar size constraints. The structure, the main
section of the house would be virtually the same setback as the exist-
ing cottage and shed, again, except for the garage which extends in
an L configuration. The neighbor immediately to the east, is pre-
sent tonight and has indicated to us that she does not have any
objection to the project. We feel, again, that the project is rea-
sonable and necessary given the constraints of the property and would
urge your approval. We would be happy to answer any questions you
might have.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The only thing that I find different from the,
Mr. Hadji, plans for the house is that the garage doors on the plans
that I have face the road.
MR. HADJI: Again, I don't know exactly what has been provided to
you but I can supply you with this showing that the doors face west-
ward. That is a previous layout for that I suppose. That is not
the case. There would be no direct necessity for backing out onto
the road which would be an obvious safety hazard. The driveway will
not come up in to this area and provide back up. I also have a series
of photographs which I could present to you indicating the existing
structures, yard areas and the setbacks of existing homes very close
by to show that they are similiarly to what is proposed.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Do you have any indication, Mr. Hadji, of how
close the neighbors are in reference to their proximity of County
Road 48 or to either sideyard?
MR. HADJI: The immediate homes? East and west? The home to the
east is virtually the same and I am referring to the aerial photo-
which, again, I believe is in your file. Also, a similiar setback
from the sideyard, I recall, so that we would be increasing that
sideyard setback. To the west, again, very similiar setback. Per-
haps that home is slightly more than what is proposed here; the
setback from the road. However, the setback from the water is less.
Again, if you travel further west, you'll find that the setback from
both decrease.
Page 3 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Joseph Citardi
~Southold Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can you tell me how far the applicant's
property is to either fresh water or salt water in reference to
depth?
MR' HADJI: Are you talking about groundwater?
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
in general.
Right.
Not potable ground water but water
MR. HADJI: I would have to refer to a test well...
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: There is no basement in this house.
strictly a crawl space. Right?
It's
MR. HADJI: .Fortunately with the last minute shuffling, I come up
with a test well.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Can I have this? The only question at this
particularly time, that this Board has concerning this application,
is basically the protrusion of the garage into the frontyard area.
The purpose for asking for this very simply to ask why the appli-
cant can't put the garage underneath the house or can somehow bed
the garage into the existing proposed-- I'm sorry. The proposed
line, not the existing line. I should say into the existing plan.
Now, we can do one of two things here. We can either alter the
garage ourselves or you can come back to us and tell us which way
you want it altered. Ok. I can close the hearing pending a let-
ter from you but I assure you that we have not granted accessory
buildings nor have we granted garages in the frontyard as close
as 9 feet to the County Road 48. So I would ask you to please~.
go back and I'll give you that option. You're welcome to speak
to the applicant. But myself and another Board member tonight~
just as we sat down, had mentioned that we felt that it was fairly
close to County Road 48 and we feel that it's too close for us to
deal with in reference to the 9 feet. But as for the rest of it,
I haven't discussed it with the rest of the Board but I'll be
honest with you. I don't have a tremendous problem with the rest
of the house. I can understand that there is a deck in the rear
of the garage and I assume that's probably to capture the view or
whatever the case might be. But as I said, we can either alter it
based upon our wisdom, so to speak or you can get back to us and
tell us what you would be willing to move it back to. Yes. Mr.
Short, certainly sir.
MR. SHORT: It's not my feeling to put it 25 feet away from the
pavement and the houses that are not even 300 feet away from this,
are 10 feet from the street. I'm 25 feet away from the street.
If you go west as you go from that piece, they can't even park
their car. They park it right on the asphalt and then their house
sets back. My house is 25 feet from the pavement. I think you
have to look at it. It's 25 feet to the property line.
Page 4 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Joseph Citardi
Southold Board of 'Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
not.
County Road 48 is a fifty foot road, is it
MR. SHORT: Yes. So it's 34 back from the edge of the shoulder.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes. I'm aware of that. I mean the people
that are down from me, they are not even 300 feet down from me~ I
would say west of me, they don't even have a place to park their
cars. They park them right on that black asphalt.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I know. Well, that's only two members of
the Board. I'm just telling you what our feelings are concerning
the application. It would be unfair for me not to do that. And
so if you want us to deal with it, we'll deal with it to the best
of our ability.
MR. SHORT:
Would you do that please.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
of this application?
Ok. Would anybody line to speak in favor
Yes, in favor ma'am?
MRS. WILCOX: I am a neighbor directly to the east of Mr. Citardi.
I've known him for over 25 years. He's always been a very good
neighbor. I know he wouldn't be doing anything that was not going
to be helpful. I have been over the property and it's all staked
out and I can see from where my house is situated looking at his
house and the proposed house and garage that the way it is situ-
ated, there is no problem as far as traffic goes. Also, as he
had stated, many houses to the west of us nearby about four or five
houses down to the west of us, they are so close to the road and
there is no way... And they do have to park on the pavement. He
would not have anything like that to contend with. And also, the
way that the large doors are situated facing the west, he would be
coming in at an angle so that there would be no way that he could
have a problem. I know the people to the west of him feel the same
way I do. They are not able to be here. They live in Kansas. I'm
speaking on behalf of my mother who owns the house and I live there
all year around. So we are for him to proceed, Mr. Citardi, as he
wishes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you ma'am. Is there anybody else who
would like to speak in favor? Anybody like to speak against? For
the record, let it be known to the audience that if there was an
assumed frontyard setback, meaning if the surrounding houses in the
immediate area had had a setback or an established setback, then
they would not be denied by the Building Igspector. Or in effect,
be turned down. And so this particular application is denied or
turned down for the purposes and that's why they had come to this
hearing; for the purpose of this frontyard setback. Is there any-
thing else that would like to be said before I close the hearing
gentlemen? Ok. Hearing no further questions, I make a motion
closing the hearing reserving decision until later.
Ail in favor - AYE.
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY', APRIL 14, 1988
Appl,-No, 3709
Applicant(s): EDWARD A. HANUS
Location of Property: 635 Lupron Point Road, Mattituck, NY
County Tax Map ID No. 1000-115 _ 11 _ 3
Board-Members present were: Chairman Goehringer Po Goehringer,
Members Serge Doyen, Charles Grigonis, Robert J. Douglass and
Joseph H. Sawicki.
Absent was: Victor Lessard (Building Dept.).
Also present were Linda Kowalski, Board Secretary, and 25
persons at the beginning of the meeting.
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:20 o'clock p.m. and
read the notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: We have ~ recessed hearing from the
February 18, 1988 meeting. And it's concerning an accessory
apartment in Mattituck at Lupton's Point. The applicant's
name is Edward A. Hanus and I'll ask Mr. Cuddy if he would
like to present the case.
CHARLES R. CUDDY, ESQ.: Charles Cuddy. I appear in behalf
of Mr. and Mrs. Hanus. As the Chairman indicated they own a
single-family dwelling on Lupton Point Road, and they would
like to put in that single-family dwelling an accessory
apartment. As the application indicates, they meet basically
all of the requirements of the ordinance, and I would ask
the Chairman if you have the "Certificate of Occupancy" in
your file for the house~
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Yes.
MRo CUDDY: So it's a part of the record. Their house is in
excess of 2,0'00 sq. ft. The apartment would be approximately
650 feet and thereby, would meet the 40% limitation of the
ordinance. Mr. and Mrs. Hanus, of course, will remain at
the house since it's their home and it's a requirement under
the ordinance. There has been some concern expressed as to
parking, and I'll get to that in just a minute. I think we
have some plans here that we can show the Board. But there
is a tenant who has expressed an interest in the house who
rented the home for a year subject to the approval of this
application, and I would offer up a letter from that tenant.
(Letter submitted dated April 12, 1988 from Janet Gibret
concerning a one-year lease of the apartment.)
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir, -
Page 2 - Transcript of Hearing
Matter of EDWARD A. HANUS #3709
Regular Meeting - April 14, 1988
MR. CUDDY: Members of the Board, I have with me two alternate
plans, which I'll offer up in just a second, for parking for
three vehicles. Before doing that, I would like to say that
this is a relatively narrow right-of-way-type road. All of
the people that live on this road essentially have their
driveways close to the road, but one of the exceptions is
Mr. Hanus has an 80-ft. long driveway that's relatively wide
and has parked some of his cars in that particular spot.
The Hanuses understand that they have to have three additional
spaces. They would like to have them in a certain configuration
and I would offer these up to the Board to show you their
property.
This is Number One. Number One would show three spaces coming
off the right-of-way.
Number Two would show three spaces coming off the driveway.
One of the problems with the second approach is that there's
a tree, a big tree that would come down as a result of that.
One of the reasons for the first approach is that basically
all of the parking in the neighborhood is essentially similar.
That is, the people park relatively close to that right-of-way.
And I would offer a series of pictures and ask that they be
made part of the record, just to show additional driveways in
the neighborhood, and also it shows the Hanus driveway so you
can see its length and depth.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MR. CUDDY: I would ask the Board based upon the application
that's b~en submitted and based upon the information sub-
mitted tonight, together with the pictures and the exhibits,
to grant approval to the Apartment Accessory Use. If you
have any questions, Mr. Hanus is here. Mrs. Hanus is here.
We would be delighted to respond.
CHAIRMAN: In dealing with the application, it appears that
it's fairly self-explanatory, so I don't have any immediate
questions so we'll see what happens during the hearing. We
thank you, sir. Would anybody else like to speak in favor
of the application? (No one) Anyone like to speak against
the application?
Page 3 - Transcript of Hearing
Matter of EDWARD A. HANUS #3709
Regular Meeting- April 14, 1988
MR. JACK DROBET' I'm Mr. Drobet and I'm a property owner on
the east side of Mr. Hanus. And I don't choose to speak for
it or against it really. I'm not against the apartment. But
I'm concerned about access to our property. As he says, stated
the driveway is very narrow, the road itself is only ten feet,
Mr~ Hanus has used the other t6n feet, which as you can see on
the map, this exhibit that you mailed us--he's been using that
as his parking area. And the tenant he has in there right now
has parallel parking in there--he has the one, two, three,
proposed--they're all in the parking plan that he has outlined
here. It's now parallel to the road, and actually jets out
into the right-of-way. Practically taking up the~ ten feet
that's in the white area there: So that's the only thing I
object to, is that he has adequate parking and parking-off
the right-of-way.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you, sir. Anybody else like to speak against
this application, or comment on the application? Anything
further, Mr~ Cuddy? (Negative) Hearing no further questions,
I'll make a motion closing the hearing and reserving decision
until later.
MEMBER GRIGONIS: Second.
CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much for coming in.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: All.
Respectfully submitted,
Linda F. Kowalski, Secretary
Southold Town Board of Appeals
TRANSCRIPT. OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL i'4, 1988
3715
Appl.-No,
App.licant(s): BERNARD KIERNAN
Location of Property: 1605 North Parish Drive, Southold, NY
County Tax_Map ID No, 1000- 71 ~ 1 - 15
Board Members present were: Chairman Goehringer Po Goehringer,
Members Serge Doyen, Charles Grigonis, Robert J. Douglass and
Joseph H. Sawicki.
Absent was: Victor Lessard (Building Dept.).
Also present were Linda Kowalski, Board Secretary, and 25
persons at the beginning of the meeting.
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:28 o'clock p.m. and
read the notice of hearing and application for the record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey produced by
Roderick VanTUy! P.C. indicating the existing two-story
framed house-witH attached garage and circular driveway.
The most recent date on that survey is November 27, 1987.
I have a copy of a site plan indicating an extensive deck,
gazebo and planting area along with an extensive stairwell
to the beach produced by Garrett A. Strang, Architect--most
recent date is March 8th, 1.988. We have others in the file
that are dated before this, the most recent one. And I have
a copy of the.Suffolk County Tax Map indicating this and
surrounding properties in the'area~ Would you like to be
heard, sir?
GARRETT A, STRANG, RoA~: Thank you. The application and
need for the'variance, I think, speak fo'r themselves. We
have an existing house which I believe was constructed
sometime in the early 1960s. It was constructed obviously
relatively close to the top. of the bluff to take advantage
o-f the vista that's aff6rded from that particular site
and neighboring sites, The present owner at this time,
after having lived in the house for almost 10 years, I
guess, at this point, would like to construct a deck right
off the living room area of the house as well as-- he
presently has it shown on the survey, a platforms on the
one corner of the property I guess it would be considered
the northwesterly CO,her--again at the top of the bluff.
He would like to enlarge upon that, although the platform
that is there presently is elevated somewhat--the proposed
reconstruction of that platform and the enlargement would
be a platform at grade, and it would be l'andscaping around
it, too~ and there are some existing trees and landscaping
there that we intend to work around., a sculpture platform
around this. Sort of a quiet little area in the property
Page 2 - Transcript of Hearing
Matter of BERNARD KIERNAN #3715
Board of Appeals - April 14, 1988
MR. STRANG (continued):
that's enclosed by the trees to prot
winds except those that come directl
a place where they like to sit and h'
they want to enlarge upon it a littl
presently. The present access to th
quently to the beach is somewhat, is
form of terracing along the easterly
and it really isn't good access. It'
it's terraced and inclined and it do
proper access to the beach. They'd
and install a more permanent type of
form of series of steps and landings
cent and ascent on the beach Part
although we're not certain i~ this B<
to do with the dock and the access t(
which would be in the Bay.
The last item that's shown on the ap
to as a gazebo, which they would lik
again to have a place to sit and takt
The size of the gazebo is approximat~
It's a small garden structure. It's
scale of what we see developing at tl
corner (in Southold).
CHAIRMAN: Can I just ask=- that is
MR. STRANG:
gazebo.
That is the only roofed
CHAIRMAN: Thank you.
MR. STRANG: The deck is approximate
approximately'15 feet total out from
of that 15 feet will be encomp~s6d
bench to act as a g.uardrail, so it'l
~ct it from some of the
off the Bay, and it's
tve a quiet time. So
bit from what's there
bulkhead and subse-
afforded by a makeshift
side of the property~
s not a step per se--
sn't really afford
i ke to forego that
a structure in the
to divide a safe, des-
f the application,
ard addresses it has
a floating dock,
lication ~s.referred
to place up there
advantage of the view.
ly 9' It's small.
nothing the size or
e park here on the
he only roofed structure?
structure~ It's the
fy--it will project
the building. Part
~y a platform-type of
be about maybe 12½
feet of usable deck area. So it's n t projection out from
the building. Plus the deck runs nearly the full width of
the house. I wanted to call to your attention the area that's
depicted on the site plan that I provided as a pathway may be
Page 3 Transcript of Hearing
Matter of BERNARD KIERNAN #3715
Board of Appeals - April 14, 1988
MR. STRANG (continued):
misleading in that it's depicted as if it may be elevated
and which it isn't, and further conversations with the owner--
the pathway is their respect more desirable to be a land-
scape feature--possibly display ( ) with the existing lawn
as opposed to a -type of an arrangement. So
the extent of the structures that we're really dealing with=-
the deck, the landing from and connecting the deck to the
stairs which would descent to the beach-=there is a secondary
intermediate platform which takes you from the deck down to
grade, gazebo, and the other platform on the east side-- I
don't know if that would be considered structure or not but
it's to be at grade.
CHAIRMAN: The deck on the north side or the-- are you
referring to the lefthand side?
MR. STRANG: ]['..m talk~i, ng to you--yeah--the area I refer to
on my'site plan is the .proposed wood platform at grade.
Yes.
CHAIRMAN: Ok~
MR.C SIlRANG~-L~ We have a relatively limited area in which to
deal with between the house and the top of the bluff if the
Board has visited the site~
CHAIRMAN: Yes.
MR. STRANG~ I'm sure they are familiar with it. Obviously
the deck working on that side of the house--there's no way
to alleviate the 75 ft. setback requirements since the house
itself is only about 64 feet back from the highwater mark.
CHAIRMAN: The only thing that reminds me of a similar appli-
cation was, of course, a much higher cliff on the Sound, of
which we had placed in the decision if the Board so desires
to grant this _application. Extensive findings that there be
no erosion caused 'by the stairway, ok~ And since you have
told us that you are going to place plantings in that area
anyway, we assume that's just a supportive covenant basically
or restriction~
Page 4 - Transcript of Hearing
Matter of BERNARD KIERNAN #3715
Board of Appeals - April 14, 1988
MR. STRANG: We have no problem with that. The bluff, if you
will, may be a misnomer in this case. It's an incline that
has been landscaped over the years and maintained with vege-
tation that has shown absolutely no evidence of deterioration
or erosion at all.
CHAIRMAN: I thank you very much, Mr. Strang. It's a very
nice plan. Would anybody else like to speak in favor of
this application? Anybody like to speak against the applica-
tion? (No one) Questions from Board Members? (None) Hearing
no further questions, I~ll make a motion closing the hearing
and reserving decision until later.
MEMBERS SAWICKI AND GRIGONIS: Second.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: All~
Respectfully submitted,
~~ F~.~o~r~tary
Southold Town Board of Appeals
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1988
Applo No. 3772
Applicant(s): Manfred Kuerner
Location of Property: E/s Caro!e Road, Southold
County Tax Map ID NO. 1000- 52-2-3
Board Members present: Chairman Goehringer P. Goehringer,
Members: Doyen, Douglass, Grigonis and Sawicki.
Also present were approximately 40 per. sons, in the~aud-ience & Linda
Kowalski, Secretary of Zoning Board of Ap~)eals. (Building
Department Administrator, Mr. Lessard was absent.)
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:38 o'clock p.m.
and read the legal notice of hearing and application for the
record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a copy of a survey produced by Roderick
YAnTuyl, P.C. as mentioned in the application. The most recent date
is April 3, 1981 indicating this particular one-story dwelling. I
have a sketch copy of proposed additions as requested by the nature
of this application. And I have a copy of the Suffolk County Tax
Map indicating this and surrounding properties in the area. Would
you like to be heard? '-..
PATRICIA C.
MRS.~OORE.: Before I begin, I'd like to thank the Board for sche-
duling us so quickly. The Kuerners are anxious to start construc-
tion and this appeal is going to be part of the complete construc-
tion. I also request that appeal number 3706 be incorporated and
be made part of this hearing so that I don't repeat and resubmit
all the exhibits yoh have in the file. They have .... The Kuerners
have reapplied with a lesser variance. They have come back and ap-
plied for the addition in the rear which I'd like to correct my
statement that there were two bedrooms. It's my error. It's one
bedroom and a living area. So in fact, it still remains a five
foot addition in the rear. I'd like to point out, as you know
from inspections, 'that this area, Carol Road, is only approximately
600 feet in length from one end to the other and it's primarily de-
veloped all along the east side. All the properties are less than
ten feet from each other. So that when one appeal is given, for
example~ the Deletto case, the Kuerners feel very strong that in a
case that is identical, that they should receive similiar treatment.
They, in fact, did apply for something less than what other appli-
cations requested. They have come back to the Board of a two foot
enlargement of the garage addition that was granted. It was their
error when they were submitting the papers that they just did not
calculate the lack of storage on the property and the fact that they
are reducing the addition in the rear to five feet, they felt it
would be reasonable to request that the garage be made 12 by 22. I
have some numbers of the variance of the house sizes .... I have to
apologize. As you can see... I know the Board questioned where the num-
bers are coming from on this property. The house is 28 by 31. That's
Page 2 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Manfred Kuerner
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
MRS. MOORE (continued):
not a problem. The garage as has been requested, 12 by 22, I
have a square footage there. Assuming a 50 by 110 foot lot which
is a 5,500 square foot piece of property, there was a discrepan-
cy when I went back and looked at the papers, that the old sub-
division map showed a lot of 50 by 110. The survey showed a 5G
by 100. The discrepancy was that when the bulkhead on the property,
it was shown at i00 feet. The deed description which I have a
deed here for you and I'll submit, is 110. So that in fact, it's
plus or minus 110. As you can see from the size of the garage
that the height of the garages that have been granted in the past,
are 15 feeS. It was quite a surprise to Mr. and Mrs. Kuerner that
when the decision came back, that they were being limited to 12
feet. That was unusual that in all the other properties that had
received similiar variances, in fact, all the properties that have
garages now improved, are 15 feet in height. The 12 foot created
an additional difficulSy for them, practical difficulty because
they have so very little storage. That that additional space was
going to be used for storage. They have agreed to a one-story ga-
rage. That is not a problem. And they have agreed to two garage
doors in conformity with the zoning decision and with the other
appeals that have been granted in the neighborhood. Again, the
increased width of two feet to the garage, makes up for the dif-
ference that the depth of the garage is all along this area, 10
by 24. Eppititto is 12 by 24. The other two properties are 10
by 24. The Kuerners had originally requested 10 by 22. Now they
request a 12 by 22. They're still equal to if not less than the
requests that have been made in the past. There are only four
homes here. The fifth home which is right next to the Kuerners,
we can get the dimensions. However, the house is situated in
such a way that it faces the water differently. So the setbacks
would not really be clear and the size of the house would just
not be consistent with the other just because of the positioning
of the house. But if you'd like that information, we can provide
it to you. I'd also like to emphasize that the neighbors in this
area are very much in support of the Kuerners. They provided this
information that you have before you and they recognize that this
community is being developed and is being developed consistently.
Each application is coming in similiar if noE the same relief
requested. I'd also like to point out that in the previous ap-
peal, I did emphasize that they could not go up as an alternative
request. Mrs. Kuerner does suffer from a physical disability and
she, as you know, the Board does not ordinarily does noc consider
the individual's practical difficulty. However, her physical dis-
ability does present a family member with a problem. Then the Board
can consider this in determining practical difficulty. Just to re-
cap very quickly from the previous appeal, the property is subject
to a 20 foot right-of-way, is only 50 by 110 plus or minus. The
neighborhood is entirely non-conforming. So this property is not
substantially different than any property in the neighborhood. In
fact, Eppilitto is the one that we emphasize, is identical, abso-
lutely identical. The neighbors have supported the request. And
we request that in fairness, based on the facts you've received,
based on the record that we submitted, that you please grant Mr.
and Mrs. Kuerner the requested variance. If the Board has a prob-
lem with any of the issues, Mrs. Kuerner would be happy to address
Page 3 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Manfred Kuerner
Southold Zoning board of Appeals
MRS. MOORE (continued):
any concerns you have or any questions you have or even any con-
ditions you might impose on them. Because after the fact, is
very difficult for them to deal with it and know hQ~ t¢ ~esp~n~ to
it. So they don't want to come back again.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I just wanted to ask you, Mrs. Moore, we
are now dealing with 17 feet from the bulkhead. Is that correct?
With the proposed rearyard addition.
MRS. MOORE: From five .... I believe so. I believe that Mr.
Kuerner provided a sketch which shows the difference. I don't
have it in front of my.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I had thought it was 19 that we had.
do the measurements on it.
We'll
MRS. MOORE: There may be some inconsistency there because that
survey was so small. It was difficult to get an accurate descrip-
tion.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: As for the 12 feet, from the Smalczewski
and the Riebock and all the rest of the applications that we've had,
we run into a problem with one-story, two-stories. We found that
one-story buildings ended up to be two stories. In fact, we found
a two-story building and it ended up to be three stories. So there-
fore, we had one garage that was still two stories and it ended up
to be 28 feet in height. -So therefore, we're now talking one-story
at 12 feet. So we understand the purpose or the need for 15 but...
MRS. MOORE:
area?
Are you talking about this problem occured along this
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: It's occured in all the areas.
MRS. MOORE: Because I believe that in this particular area, that
all the heights have been maintained at one story or 14 feet. I
believe the code allows for 18 feet on an accessory structure. And
unfortunately with the attached, there is the limitation that you
can go up to 35 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. I'm just telling you that it was
nothing personal towards this applicant that we have changed our
policy in reference to height of garages. Regardless if they are
attached or unattached and that was basically limiting them at 12
feet unless the applicant has some particular problem with that.
So that was the reason for the 12 feet and I do understand the rea-
son why they need 15. So at this particular time, I can't grant
your request because I have no idea how the Board feels. So there-
fore, there's really no reason to discuss anything with Mrs. Kuerner
at this point. I'll be honest with you. So we'll just go on the
basis of what you'Ve present,do
Page 4 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Manfred Kuerner
~outhold Zoning Board of Appeals
MRS. MOORE: If you do have a question, I understand you do not
take additional testimony. However, if you do have a question
that is unclear in the paperwork that you have this evening, I~d
be happy to clarify. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who would
like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like to speak
against the application? Questions from Board members? Hearing
no further questions, I'll make a motion closing the hearing re-
serving decision until later.
Ail in favor - AYE.
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1988
Appl. No. 3687
Applicant(s): Jon C. Kerbs
Location of Property:
County Tax Map ID NO. 1000- £7-2-5
Board Members present: Chairman Goehringer P. Goehringer,
Members: Doyen, Douglass, Grigonis and Sawicki.
Also Present: Linda Kowalsk, i~.~_Secretary to the Board of Appeals~,r~a%d
approkimately 50 per,sons in .the audience ~ (.Bu.i 1 di ng~Department Admi ni strator,
Mr. Lessard._was absent.)
The Chairman opened the hearing at 8:5~ o'clock p.m.
and read the legal notice of hearing and application for the
record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: ..... on behalf of
Jon Kerbs. We've taken a significant amount of testimony on this
particular hearing. The Board had felt that there was additional
things they wanted to look at. More particularly, a request of the
applicant concerning additional information on the survey which we
have received. And we'll ask'the applicant or the agent or his at-
torney if there is anything they would like to add.
MR. STEPHEN ANGEL : There's 'nothing we want to add to our case.
We're here to answer any questions and to respond to any comments.
CHAIRMAN G~EHRINGER: We're really not taking any verbals so we ap-
preciate that and we appreciate your showing up. Actually, it was
very nice of you to come down. Is there anything that the opposi-
tion would like to place in the record before we close the hearing,
in writing? Seein~ no... Excuse me. Yes.
MRS. WEXFORD : I'd just like to ask because it was un-
clear in the notice of the Suffolk Times, not knowing what state
you're at with this. It said that the applicant was asking for an
interpretation and if necessary, a variance. I'd like that clari-
fied. In other words, I don't know what to respond to because I
don't know where you are.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER:
MRS. WEXFORD
Were you at the last hearing ma'am?
: No.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The particular problem that we have at this
time is the difference of setback lines from mean high water, spe-
cific areas of marsh grass so on and so forth. Under 119-2 of the
Zoning Code which is a similiar section and probably more enforce-
able under Section 97 that the Trustees deal with. We deal with
119-2. It requires a 75 foot setback from basically the wetlands.
In this particular case we have an application before us which deals
with a setback that was established or a line that was established
by the D.E.C. which is the Department of Environmental Conservation
and we have other evaluations that were done by members of the
~Page 2 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Pubic Hearing -Jon Kerbs
southold Zoning Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER (continued):
Trustees and the Trustees in Toto and by other organizations which
we had taken significant testimony in. Based upon the information
that is being placed in tb~ record, I can not go any farther other
than give you my feelings. And that is, the applicant at this par-
ticular time, is definitely wants to set, basically, the one-story
structure back 75 feet from this particular established line. The
purpose of the word "interpretation" is very simply a word to mean
is it in our jurisdiction or isn't it. And we have a similiar spe-
cific interpretation for another application tonight which is the
second part of the hearing. I will inform the applicants, I will
inform the public that at the most recent co-committee meeting the
Z.B.A, so as not to have overlapping jurisdiction in these areas,
will be taken out of 119-2B and give that jurisdiction to the Town
Trustees. Alright. So the nature of this hearing, in three or
four months may be mute. And that's basically the situation. And
I thank you for asking because there are certain questions that
people don't really understand and it's very difficult to keep
abreast of everything all the time.
MRS. WEXFORD : Is the applicant then not asking for a variance
at this point? It's matter of you having decided that the inter-
pretation is with the Baerd of Trustees and therefore, the appli-
cant is not asking for a variance now at this meeting.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: That's not particularly true because at the
last hearing we had taken significant testimony to say that there
were wetland grasses or indicating grasses that were within this
75 feet. And it's up to us to make the determination if we feel
that it is within our jurisdiction or not based upon the testimony
that we've taken and the particular information that has been placed
in the record. So I'm not trying to be evasive. I'm just trying
to tell you that we haven't made that interpretation. And based
upon the fact that there are other circumstances involved here.
MRS. WEXFORD : I'm asking because if it's a question of ask-
ing for a variance, I'd like to address that general term. It that's
appropriate but I can't tell whether that's appropriate.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Well, interestingly enough, you really can't
address it anyway because we had asked that there be no verbal tes-
timony tonight. But if you felt you wanted to address it, you could
tell us that you felt strongly enough about doing that that you could
place something in the record tomorrow and we have to ask you your
name for the record anyway.
MRS. WEXFORD: I'm Betty Wexford and I'm Vice President of the
Orient Association.
,Page 3 - Thursday, April 14,. 1988
Public Hearing -Jon Kerbs
$outhold Zoning Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ok~ And if you felt that that was the case,
that we would close the hearing pending the receipt of something
from you. Hearing no further questions,... I'm sorry. Receiving
no further testimony concerning this hearing, I'll make a motion
closing reserving decision until some time in the immediate future.
Ail in favor - AYE.
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
APRIL 14, 1988 REGULAR MEETING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
Appl. No. 3633 and 3636
Applicant: TARTAN OIL CORP.
Location of Property: S/s Main Road, W/s Marratooka Lane and
E/s of Sunset Avenue, Mattituck
County Tax Map Parcel ID No. 1000-115-3-9
Present were: Gerard P. Goehringer, Chairman; Charles Grigonis,
Jr.; Serge Doyen, Jr.; Robert J. Douglass and Joseph H. Sawicki,
constituting all five members of the Board of Appeals.
Also present were: Linda Kowalski and approximately 20 persons
in the audience. (Mr. Lessard was absent.)
The Chairman reconvened the hearing at 9:00 p.m.
was previously heard on February 18, 1988.)
(This matter
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: This was a recessed appeal with no particular
date and then the Board cho5.~ to put it back on the calendar for
tonight. It's not necessary to read the legal notice° However, it
is concerning a gas, I'll mention it for the record, station in Mat-
tituck. More importantly I believe, the Mobil Station on the corner0f
~Miar'ra ~tooka Lane and Main Road in Mattituck and we'll start with Mr.
Moore.
MR. MOORE: Good evening. William Moore, the office is in Mattituck.
As you said, we're here to discuss the Tartan, Mattituck Mobil Sta-
tion. I'm here tonight for two reasons only. One is requesting the
special exception permission set forth in 100-70B 4 and 5 which has
to do with the self-service use of a gasoline station, the partial
self service. I believe at the last hearing I went through each and
every item set forth in five of that section or subsection explaining
that each of those requirements and criteria to permit a self-service
station will in fact or are in fact, ready to be in place there.
Those sections deal with having an attendant on duty, no lock on de-
vices on the pumps and how those pumps have to work. Each of those
criteria are or will be satisfied if you do grant the special excep-
tion use. In considering their request for this gas station as a
self-service, I'd like you to remember that, of course, is an exist-
ing gas station. When applicants typically come into the Zoning
Board for a special exception use, we're often looking at vacant land
and a special use that because the zoning code is written in such a
way, we don't want to give that use as of right. And the code is for
the whole variety of criteria considering whether or not this use
which is permitted in that zone should be put in this particular lo-
cation. We have an existing gas station there. So that a lot of
those more generalized concerns that go along with a vacant land con-
sideration of a self-service gas station going into a heretofore va-
cant piece of property, don't really apply tonight. We're there.
We have an impact as we are and we exist and work. Going from a
Page 2 -Thursday~ April 14, 1988
Public Hearing -Tartan Oil Co.
$outhold Zoning Board of Appeals
MR. MOORE (continued):
full-service station to a self-service station, I submit to you,
will have no impact at all as we are already there in an operating
fashion. That's the most important point I'd like to make con-
cerning the approval for the self-service use. We did get a let-
ter or a letter put to the Board about some noise from the speakers
there and they have been turned down. So it's self-service be-
cause it requires an intercom system between the inside and out-
side. Those are required and does have an impact there. We've
cut the volume back on that as an attempt to resolve that problem.
If there are any questions on the self-service portion of the ap-
plication.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Not at this time.
MR. MOORE: I'd like to move on to the question of the convenience
store which we discussed at length and I submitted a memorandum
for your consideration as well. And pointed to your specific de-
cision in the Ocean Holding Corp. case which is a Texaco Station
up there in Mattituck where you expressly stated a number of place-
ments or decision or that you acknowledge or recognize the con--
venience store use as an accessory use customary and incidental
to a gas station. I would suggest that the same rationale in that
decision applies here as well. In fact, at the time, we went ahead
and did convenience store uses, I felt strongly enough about that
it was considered an accessory use that we were surprised to get a
notice of disapproval calling this a retail shopping center. So
our first request here was to suggest that, number one; we are not
a retail shopping center and I think that your prior decision and
the Texaco Station supports that conclusion of mine. And that even
if you disagree with me, we then seek the variance. Call us a re-
tail shopping center. I disagree with that characterization and
grant us the variance because we are 36,000 square foot parcel.
The Texaco Station I believe, was an 11 or 12,000 square foot par-
cel. I do believe we are an accessory use and not a retail shopping
center and I believe the memorandum notice I submitted suggest some
other examples of stores in Mattituck and the Town of Southold.
But I do not believe this Board would consider a retail shopping
center simply because there are two uses going on the property which
at first glance may or may not be related as you consider them. And
I think the examples were a hardware store selling televisions and
washers and a Marine Supply store selling lawn mowers. And I don't
believe we consider those retail shopping centers either. To give
an indication that in fact, the convenience store is an accessory
use, I put together at the last hearing, I believe I quoted them to
you but I put them in writing. The sales receipts, the gross sales
from this applicant's Mobil Station zn Peconic. I have for you to-
night, these were for two days in February and I've listed the store
sales and the gasoline sales so you can get an idea that we're talk-
ing a ratio of ten to one. Ten in gasoline for every one in store
sales. So we're not approaching a duel use or another principal use.
,Page 3 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Tartan Oil Corp.
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
MR. MOORE (Continued):
The next comment I'd like to say about an accessory use is the
definition in the code and that which is customary and incidental
to the primary use. I've mentioned the prior decision you've
made. I think it was an appropriate decision. I think the Board's
own experience has been that the gasoline station which had the
service bays and the full-service of the automobile, is going away
at least at this time in history. The gasoline industry seems to
be changing over time. We had general stores with gas pumps out
front and those went away. We had gasoline stations with full-ser-
vice bays and a Texaco man came out and washed your windshield and
checked the wipers and checked the oil and those seem to be going
away. So the customary incidental is a changing definition. And
if you go up and down Long Island, I think you're finding gasoline
stations widely giving up the service aspect of their jobs, pumping
solely to gas. And in many cases, picking up the convenience stores
as well and the mechanics are being done by other shops. So I sug-
gest that you're right in your prior decision. It is customary and
incidental. I'd like to also submit to you a petition of approxi-
mately 390 names of people in support of this application. Typi-
cally when you get up to speak for a variance, you are responding
in many cases, neighbors or those who speak generally in opposition
with the application. I'm glad to submit 390 names of people who
support both the self-service aspect and the _.nvenience store.
Finally, the February meeting, the Town Planner, Yalerie Scopaze,
submitted a memorandum which I have had the opportunity to read
and consider and she makes many interesting points in the memoran-
dum. I was interested that in the application as it is submitted
and the criteria that you must consider as a Zoning Board, none of
her comments are particularly relevant. Many of her comments re-
spond to the legislative act of zoning and whether certain uses are
appropriate and designations and whether zoning in a particular area
of town is appropriate. She questioned for example, the business
zone and where it's located. That's not a discussion that's appro-
priate for this Board. That's where it is. It's on the map. We've
got it and that's the zoning of that property~ The proposed Master
Plan, we don't have to discuss it. It's not in effect. I'll said
it on the side, it retains the business zone on this property but
it has no relevance. You, yourself, decided in th Ocean Holding
decision that a convenience store is incidental, customarily acces-
sory use to a gasoline station. I agree with you totall y. She
raises the question of floral shop or video store. You pick any
type of store you like and I can take the position and say no.
Those are not customary and incidental. The trends have not come
to suggest that video stores or floral shops are at this stage in-
cidental and customary to gasoline stations. So I think that's a
red herring to suggest that they all fall in the same category. I
think you were right in deciding that the convenience store is cus-
tomary and incidental accessory use and I suggest that the decision
tonight as you consider it to be the same.
Page 4 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Pub~lic Hearing - Tartan Oil, Corp.
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The only question I have Mr. Moore is, I
think you had given us some testimony at the last hearing con-
cerning the diesel fuel pump in reference to requesting that
that be self-se~vice also.
MR. MOORE: That was a request I made. Yes.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: My only question to you is; and of course
we had been in ndated with hearings in the last couple months, but
I don't know if we talked about the Mobil one and I didn't reread
the transcript of this hearing prior to asking this question. I
don't know if we were talking about the Peconic one or if we were
talking about the one that we presently have before us. But my
question was; and I believe it was the Peconic one, that you told
me that you required a roof over, for the purpose of suppression
systems. For the purposes of putting out a fire if it was to occur
concerning this self-service aspect of this. I did go down to the
Mattituck site and I did notice that the suppression system for the
diesel pump is not supported by a roof. That it is in effect, placed
behind the pump in whatever manner or form it is placed. So there-
fore, really a roof is not required for a suppression system. Is
that correct?
MR. MOORE: I'm not sure. And if I did so state that it is required,
I certainly did not intend to make that statement. And I think the
only discussion we had with respect to the self-serve that I took
ception to the denial of self-serve at the station at Peconic for in-
terpretative definition of petroleum products in gasoline. And that
was all. One of the justifications I gave for allowing this Board
to grant diesel/kero self-serve here, was that in fact, the distinc-
tion between Peconic and Mattituck was that at Mattituck they had in-
stalled pursuant to the fire code which apparently changes when site
plan review and those things going on at Peconic and now, I think Mr.
Lessard can verify that, at Mattituck there is suppression. There
was no discussion by me nor intent to be a discussion of the roof
and the need to have a roof to support a suppression system. It was
solely a question of one of the interpretations in which it was sug-
gested in the decision in Peconic. That when a code permitted par-
tial self-serve gasoline stations, this Board found a distinction
between gasoline and diesel/kero. I found that a distinction that I
didn't think appropriate. I thought it was reading too narrowly into
the intent of the code. In my petition here at Mattituck, I suggest
that perhaps in rethinking that, I don't challenge Peconic. I don't
ask you to throw that decision aside and change it. We live with it.
But at Mattituck, we have fire suppression, that was one. And two,
that diesel goes beyond the trucks-that includes the Rabbit V0]ks~a~0n
and some of these other types of Mercedes. And then if you ask them
to insist~ upon full-serve, you don't give that particular car
driver the benefit of a reduced price which accompanies the self-serve~
And by the way, the other point which I wish to mention is that the
self-service picks up at Peconic at leasc 90% of the gas sales. Every-
one wants the nickel or the dime off that they get by pumping it
themselves versus having an attendant come out. That seems to be a
Page 5 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - Tartan Oil Corp.
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
MR. MOORE (continued):
universal trend up and down. We're all saving that nickel a gal-
lon. We give up a lot of service that way as I suggested before.
But that was a distinction I make between Mattituck and PeConic
solely the definition given to partial self-service. I like the
word gasoline station and then I gave you a second justification
for granting self-service at Mattituck which is at Mattituck. We
do have it in place. It's a suppression system. I have made no
discussion or intend to make any discussion. If I did I'd like
to withdraw that because no discussion of a need or absence of a
roof.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Ok. Thank you. Is there anybody else who
would like to speak in favor of this application? Anybody like
to speak against the application? Comment on it. Yes, Mr. Cuddy.
C. CUDDY: I live on Marrat00ka Lane about 800 feet south of this
particular gas station~ I stand here alon. apparently but I don't
think I stand alone in my neighborhood, not from the voices of vari-
ous neighbors. I have a 10t of concern with the application as
it stands before this Board. Certainly, a very fine presentation
was just made. But I think one of the key words was an existing
station. It's an existing station but it was not an existing sta-
tion in the fashion that it now exists. I would ask the Board to
consider what lawyers talk about as clean hands. I find it odd
that there's an applicant before this Board that went in and ef-
fectively asphalted over part of Southold. I'm sort of annoyed
that he would do it as he did. There are lights that are there
that were never there and I've lived in the neighborhood for more
than 20 years. There's a structure that was never there before.
That was a community gas station. It was a small station. It
served the local populas. It's true. It was in the business dis-
trict but it was not of the size, it was not of th dimension, it
was not of the scope that it is now. I ask the Board to consider
some site planning. There is no real buffer zone. There's no
landscaping. It's simply asphalted over the area and opened the
store. The attorney for the applicant has indicated that this
should be an accessory type of use and that you've done this be-
fore. I think that you all know that there is no precedant
binding on this Board in that respect. The Court of Appeals in
New York says that if you have a zoning application that stands
on all fours each time before the Board. So you're not bound by
what's been done before. I have trouble to the store being an ac-
cessory use to a gas station. I think that's expand it too far.
Whether you agree or disagree, I don't know but I think that you
should know that there are people in the community who have a prob-
lem with an applicant coming here and doing what this applicant has
done. I would ask the Board, most respectfully, to allow a gas
station which of course, is permitted. But certainly, to do some-
thing about the site plan. I think the lights should be limited.
Page 6 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
,Public Bearing - Tartan Oil Corp.
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
MR. CUDDY (continued):
I think there should be a restriction of noise. ~ hope there is
a restriction on hours of operation. I've lived there. I'm con-
cerned with this happening and I like the Board to really take a
hard look at what they're really asking for. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you Mr. Cuddy. Is there anybody else
who would like to speak in opposition of this? Mr. Moore.
MR. MOORE: We do have a site plan before the Planning Board and
I don't know whether they're waiting to see how this Board responds
to the application before it where it's been before the Board since
I believe the first part of January of this year. At least in a
variety of forms. The latest submission, I believe, was January
of '88.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Not to tell tales out of school sir. Let: me
just ask you this question. We assume that, or I assume, that based
upon what... I think what may happen is you may have to put curb
cuts in on this particular site and excavate some of this asphalt.
Is that correct?
MR. MOORE: That may well be. Not wanting to tell tales out of
school, that's a topic for discussion that hasn't been discussed
yet. But I'm not ruling that out at all.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Now, as you know that the problem that I had
at the last hearing was the roof which was never part of a variance
from this particular Board. And I don't really want to go into that
at this particular time.
nt
MR. MOORE: And rightly~so because it's not before the Board to-
night.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Right. However, it may be back some time in
the near future. I have... My problem basically is how these things
materialize over night. And move from, I don't want to paraphrase
what Mr. Cuddy says, a country gas station to immediate modern struc-
ture as it is now which I have no problem with by the way in reference
to the way it was built. The structure itself except for the roof or
the portigo. But I really wonder if... And as I said, I don't know
how it got to this point but I really wonder how these things happen.
I really do and Itjust really amazes me to see how fast that was done.
MR. MOORE: Well, speaking on a theoretical level for a moment, I
think we ought to understand that the property owner has certain
rights. That when looking into the code, one tries to read inter-
pretation as best they can for their client or as a property owner
themselfo That any restriction enforced by a code on the use of
one's property is always narrowly construed. That's to understand
that a certain foundation is the person's property rights. We then
impose restrictions upon those rights. If you can find a way or
think you have found a way in which to mitigate or make yourself,
Page 7 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
,Public Bearing - Tartan Oil Corp.
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
MR. MOORE (continued):
that the regulations inapplicable to you by building within an
existing footprint for example. There's a lot of ways it hap-
pens in many applications before this Board. When we convert
summer time bungalows into full time year around residences and
they become palaces on the water. That's a tremendous difference
on a piece of property that happens before a Board by granting a
difficult variance but we sit there and work very had to build an
existing footprint and things like that. The same time of thing
goes on in a commercial district or business district as well.
You work very hard to find a way to work within the confines of
the regulations that are appropriately imposed to see what you
can do as far as you can go without having to come before various
Boards. And obviously, the code is written such that there are
times when the case of a special exception for self-service gas-
oline station your approval is required and we are here for that.
Arguing over whether one is an accessory use or not and then being
surprised to being called a retail shopping center. We have some
unusual decisions at times that surprise property owners and per-
haps Board members as well when one is told something that seems
very very unusual and beyond belief. So we're speaking theoretical-
ly now but I think the idea is to work as a property owner as far
as you can and seek to do what you can with your property° Not
to harm neighbors or communities or otherwise. But certainly, you
have every right as a property owner to use your property up to
the point to where somebody has got to approve what you're doing.
I think that's perfectly appropriate to try and do.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Hearing no further comment, I'll
make a motion closing the hearing, reserving decision until later.
The motion was seconded, and unanimously carried.
Ail in favor - AYE.
Prepared by Nadia Moore (from tapes)
iS'inda Kowa~lskq' (as corrected) -
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1988
Appl. No. 3703
Applicant(s): John and Evelyn Keating
Location of Property: 19995 Soundview Avenue, Southold
County Tax Map ID NO. 1000- 5]-4-006.
Board Members present: Chairman Goehringer P. Goehringer,
Members: Doyen, Douglass, Grigonis and Sawicki.
Also present .were appro3~im~tely 50 persons in.{he audience~ and Linda
Kowalski, Secretary of Zoning Board of Appeals. (Building-
Department Administrator, Mr. tessard was absent.)
The Chairman opened the hearing at 9:35 o'clock p.m.
and read the legal notice of hearing and application for the
record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I 'have a copy of a survey produced by Peconic
Surveyors and Engineers. The most recent date is November 5, 1987
indicating the proposed dwelling. And I have a copy of a plan indi-
cating the slope of the bluff and so on and so forth produced by
Ward Associates. The most recent date is 3/88. And I have a copy
of the Suffolk County Tax Map'~i~ndicating this and surrounding proper-
ties in the area. Would you like to be heard?
PAIRICIA'C.
MRS./MOORE: I'd like to submit this revised house section because
of the amending of the application as requested. Wifh your permis-
sion, I'll turn this around because it's easier from here. Mr. and
Mrs. Keating wish to demolish the existing house which is there and
it is an older hom~. Probably about 40 year~ oldo Demolish that
house and rebuild a new home. The application as it was submitted,
would set back the~house at 40 feet and the deck was going to be
built ten feet out to the 3'0 foot line. Mr. Keating wishes to amend
the application to reflect the construction of the house remaining
at 40 feet. However, there will be~no deck. It will be a~. grade,
patio which I believe does not require the Bo~.~d's approval. The
existing house is 21 feet from the top of the bluff and from this
cross section, I do have an engineer today from Ward Associates,
Mr. Wood,rd who will be here to testify as to the slope and the con-
struction. The slope is stabilized. Ithas vegetation on it and
it is bulkheaded at the toe. The construction will be in confor-
mity with the character of the neighborhood. The-neighborhood along
Soundview Avenue is primarily year around residential which has been
approved one by one. This is really one Of the few houses remaining
which are unimproved. The Keating hdme will be set back at 40 feet
as I said. The adjacent properties are located on the west at 25
feet and on the east at 42 feet. The~request that's been made is
a compromise between the two and actually set back further than what
would be permitted if Mr. Keating were to reconstruct the summer.'
bungalow, summer~ home. I'm not sure if it is a summer bungalow.
To reconstruct it and make it conform to code.~ We did receive a
letter from the Soil'and Water Conservation District which supports
Page 2 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
? Public Hearing - John and Evelyn Keating
Southoid Zoning Board of Appeals
MRS. MOORE (continued):
the fact that .this slope is stable, that the property is sloped
torwards the road so that there will be no roof runoff onto the
slope which will jeopardize the vegetation or the slope itself.
The new construction will be in accordance with the code. You've
received various let~ters which discuss the~type of construction,
the depth of construction. It'~w±ll meet all New York State safety,
energy and building code requirements which.will certainlF be better
than to improve 'if not heat the house that is currently at 21 feet.
The original request was to remove the existing house and make the
existing house, into a garage. That was again amended because the
Keatings are finding that to remove the house and move it as a
garage, would be very costly and it makes more sense to demolish
the house that is there with the most current revision, in a sense,
use the foundation as part of the terrace. We can not avoid the
variance and this request. We have to move back 100 feet from the
top of the bluff and the construction area, the~>b~ilding envelope
that would remain would only be 20 feet by 70 feet which is imprac-
tical to build. I would now ~introduce Mr. Woodard who is from Ward
Associates to present testimony as to the construction or any ques-
tions that~you may have.
MR. WOODARD: I'm a licensed engineer. I'd like to submit to you
the house drawing which is the same with the extension of the patio
masonary instead of a timber deck. I think the setback difference
has been covered. The slope is abo~t a one on two. It is covered
primarily with established vegetation. Tkere is a three sided tim-
ber bulkhead at the toe of the slope. It looks about 15 or 20 years
old. It is slowed~.down in one spot but it still has structural in-
tegrity to it. I would say there's no problem of instability of
the slope as the timber bulkhead stays at the toe of the slope. The
stability is indigent on the toe. It's in. a reasonable area on the
beach. There's a lot of rocks. It's not mostly sand there. And
the general area looks fairly stable. S~bstituting the ~brick patio
aids the situation because you're not digging holeS.closer to the
bluff to put in posts and supporting a timber deck. That's one of
the reasons we're substituting.a brick patio. The~ grade is away
from the slope so that if there's a failure on the slope like this,
usually the grade is toward ths Sound which starts erosion which
gets larger. I would say probably ice damage and the~ Spring or Winter
stormy .'northwest storm would probably Cause the.~most possibility o£
damage. But lika-I say, ~the stability of the slope is contingent to
greatly maintaining the bulkhead at the to~ of the slope.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you sir.
MRS. MOORE:
swer them.
If you have any questions, we'd be happ~ to try to an-
CHAIRMAN GOEHRtNGER: No. I think just for the record, in mY opinion,
I think the removal of the de~k has helped us understand ths entire
project a little bit. It has helped me understand the project a lit-
tle bit better. And I have n~t a particular problem with it. We'll
see if any of the other Board members have any problems.
Page 3 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hearing - John and Evelyn Keating
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
MRS. MOORE: I would request that the variance be granted.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.. Is there anybody else who would
like to speak-in ~avor of~this application? Anybody like to 'speak
against'the application? Questions~from Board members? Hearing
no further questions, I'll make a motion closing the hearing and
reserving decision until later.
All in faVor - AYE.
TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING
SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS
REGULAR MEETING OF
THURSDAY, APRIL 14, 1988
Appl. No. 3710
Applicant(s): The Cove at Southold
Location of Property: B~vie~ Road, S0uth0]d~
County Tax Map ID NO. 1000- 87-5-20.
NY
Board Members present: Chairman Goehringer P. Goehringer,
Members: Doyen, Douglass, Grigonis and Sawicki.
Also present were approx~imately 60 per. sons in the audience, and Linda
Kowalski, Secretary of Zoning Board of Appeals.( Building-
Department Administrator, Mr. hessard was absent.)
The Chairman opened the ~hearing at 9:50 o'clock p.m.
and read the legal notice of hearing and application for the
record.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: I have a hearing that is reconvened from the
last regularly scheduled meeting concerning approximately 12 units.
It's basically an interpretation similiar to'other hearings that
we've had of this nature. We"~e taken significant testimony to the
tune of 2½ to 3 hours at the last hearing and we asked that anybody
that had spoken .then to please not to speak tonight unless there
is some specific issue that has been brought forth. We ask also
that any discussions that you have, deal mainly, with the setbacks,
that are basically areas that are germaine to the setbacks which is
the nature of our disapproval. And not necessarily tO areas that
the Town Trustees ~ave dealt with. Although, the present Trustees
have spent a.great amount of time at the la.st hearing explaining
specific issues along with the applicant or the agent for the ap-
plicant, Mr~ Klatsky. I think everybody at the last meeting did
understand the application and the purpose for it towards the end
of the hearing. I would ask also~that if specific questions are
asked concerning, that were redundant from the last hearing, and I
know this ~s basiCally a paraphrase of what I said before, that pos-
sibly those questions can be asked of the applicant oUt in the 'hall
at the end of the hearing if there is redundancy. And I'll open the
heating to anybody who would like to comment on this particular ]pro-
ject and anybody who might not have particularly been here at the'
last hearing. Yes ma'am. Could I ask you to use the ~ike and state
your name if you wouldn't mind.
MS. HALSEY: I do have a financial interest in some property..on
Hardneck. And of course as a resident, I have a great deal of ~n-
teres~ in the welfare of the area. One thing I did notice and
that is; some of the land in this particular situation is filled
land. I believe that was done in the 1950}s. It has been my'....
How Shall I say it. I have noticed that often times, in ~hose days,
people did not necessarily get all the permits for the filling that
they should do. The federal government does have a thousand foot
Page 2 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
PubLic He~aring -~T~'eCovs at Southold
Southoid Zoning ~oard of Appeals
MS. HALSEY (continued):
jurisdiction in the natural defense interest from.navigable water.
And I believe in th6se days, this was navigable meaning you could
float a boa~ in it with a soldier in it or a sailor perhaps if you
preferred. If the' Board is considering that fill as actual land
surface that is legal and Perhaps it is, I don't know, perhaps it
shouldn't. And~if that is the case, I hope you will go into the
files of the Corps of Engineers and'find out whether indeed this
land is actual legal land that you should think of as land rather
than some sort of intrusion that perhaps should be removed
by court order. Thank you.
CHAIrmAN GOEHRINGER:
like to speak? Yes.
Thank you.
Is there anybody else who would
MS. WACKER: I had spoken at ths last h~aring but I had some other
thoughts if permissable and I~m representing the Northfork Environ-
mental Council. I had-talked to one of the developers, Joe Boschetti
who I consider more environmentally aware a builder~than most. And
be~ides, he lives here ~n town. If he could eliminate the last three
buildings, those actually within what we're discussing here of course,
75 feet of the wetlands line.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Are you referring to 17 through 20, Ronnie?
Are those the buildings?
MS. WACKER: 75 feet.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: No I mean number 17 through 20. Is that the
ones directly to the west that's closest to the wetland?
MS. WACKER: Yes. I had asked whether he would consider not b~ild-
ing those, buildings and he said no. That he had permission to build~
them and he would take~ as much of a loss if he-'were not to build
them. And we can appreciate that. But at the same time, the Trus-
tees have set a line that should be law and not be negotiated away
for fertilizers and pooper scoopers. But .~each has the?l~w on his
side. Joe has an investment in his property. The.~Trustees have
an investment .or an obligation to ma~ntain.the quality Of %his creek
for generations to come. Joe has been given permits to build on the
creek. Just because other town agendies have granted him the right
to build so close to the wetlands line, ~ think does not mean we
should continue to mak'e the same mistake. Two wrongs don't make a
right. And we've been given a second chance now to correct that
miStake, let's take it. The Zonin~ Board of-Appeals should not
permit those three buildings to be buil~ in our opinion. Not only
to. ensure the quality of these shellfishing waters for our baymen-
and other residents but to protect those people who will be buying
the houses in ths development. They are lookin~ forward in years
to come, 'to swimming, clamming and boating in clean waters. This
will be much more likely i~ there are 21 condos instead of 33. Cer-
tainly if there are fewer of them, they will be more exclusive, have
better views and increase value which can be reflected in higher
Page 3 - Thursday, April 14, 1988
Public Hea~ing - Th~ ~Cove at Southold
S~uthold Zoning Board of Appeals
MS. WACKER (continued):
sales prices. Now, if it is still an economic hardship even with
higher-prices for fewer houses, for the developer to give up the
three buildings, then we would like to propose that the Town Board,
rather that the town assume a share of~the loss it has helped to
cr.eate. The town has voted the money to buy open space. Couldn't
this be.a part of that open space? Or if this isn't feasible,
shouldn't/we find another means, perhaps tax abatement to indemnify
the developers.fo~ some Of their loss. I wish we Could think about
this as a town. And gentlemen'.of the Appeal.'~Board, we would like
to urge upon you that legally and ethically,'?.~i~!~s.your right and
yourS'duty to deny this variance. Now, I've also been asked to repre-
sent the Citizen-Advisory Committie of She BrOwn Tide Task Force which
at its regnlar meeting of April 7~h, ~oted on.~his resolution and I'll
read to~ you. Considering the potential of pollution of Cory Creek and
ultimately Peconic Bay from 33 families, their pets, their use o.f lawn
fertilizers and swimming pool chemicals, the Citizens Advisory Commit-
tee of the 'Brown Tide Task Force recommend that the Southold Zoning
Board of Appsals deny a variance to bUild i2 ~housing units within 75
feet of the wetlands line established by Southold Town Trustees. NOw
· ~his is approved eight in favor with five abstentions. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you.
like to speak? Yes ma'am.
Is there anybody else who would
MS. HEACOCK: I hadn't planned on saying anything tonight. ~I was
just g6ing to come and sh~w my face.. It's my first time at a town
meeting. I haven't no numbers to give you. I'm not sure what I'm
going to say.
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: Sometimes that's better.
MS. H~ACOCK: I was just struck by what you were saying before about
the gas station. I'm amazed how things happen. I-feel o~% of eon-
trol. I.'m the one who wrote to you saying; is there anybody there
at-all? I~feel like I'm calling out into the darkness wondering if
anybody's thinking, if anybody's aware of what in fact we are doing
to. our town. Sometimes I feel like T'm powerless. I don't want to
be disrespectful %o developers but I do feel like. I'm powerless to
people who have money. I'm just a person who has a little house on
the end of Cedar Beach and I'm just watching my community destroyed.
It hurts my heart. It's going to hurt my drinking water I fear. It
is going, to hurt the beaucolic meandering roads that I feel is just
tUrning into suburban~ sprawt. 'And I just hope that someone is lis-
tening to us little ~eopie who don't know too much but do care about
what's going On in the~community. Thank you.
CHAIR~tAN GOEHRINGER: Thank you. Is there anybody else who would
like to speak? For the record, I'd just like to add,what I said con-
cerning the Kerbs application. And that is; the nature of this appli-
cation before us was basically an example of ~v~rlapping jurisdiction.
And althouqh I feel the Trustees have done an adequate job in this
particular area, i have no idea how my fellow Board members feel.
However,-I just want to men~ion again for the record, at the last
Co-Committee-Meeting and the Co-Committee is a series of Town Board
Page 4-- Thursday, April !4~ 19.88
Public Hearing - The Cove at Southold
Southold Zoning Board of Appeals
CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER (continued):
members, ~epartmen%.heads and ~we drum out and we change and modify
which then ultimately comes to a pUblic hearing, modifications to
the Zoning Code. We will, in the very near future, be modifying
the Zoning Code such that the Trustees are the'only organization
that has these specific powers with setbacks and they will be deal-
ing with it based solely on their expertise and the environmental
issues that they deal with. So that if this particular application
was submitted or if the Building Inspector chose ~ to deny it at this
particular time, I should say at a time two months from now, then
the application would not have come before us. It is primarily an
interpretation and we will do the best we possibly can to deal with
the feelings and-emotions that most everyone has. As we deal with
most of the applications'and that was the reason why we don't vote
on this applica~ion~ right after t~he hearing. We usually have some-
times, two and three meetings before we actually render a decision.
So I appreciate everybody coming down tonight. The~purpose of this
second~hearing was to hear anyone that was unable to attend the first
one and was mainly at the request of several people that felt that
particular way. And I feel that way also. Everybody should be heard.
So we thank you all ~ery very much for coming out and I~m g~ing to
make a motion closing this hearing reserving decision until later.
Ail in favor - AYE.
RECEIVED AND Ft~LED,.DY
THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CL~K
DATEI 'ik HOU~
Town Clerk, Town of SOuthold