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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10/15/2009 MeetingPUBLIC MEETING October 15, 2009 Comprehensive Plan Public Information Meeting SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I want to thank everybody for being here this evening. What the Southold Town Board has done is undertaken the process of developing and completing a new comprehensive or an updated comprehensive plan for the entire Town of Southold. We, this is just an informal meeting to sort of give everybody an understanding of what our time table is, what our game plan is. It is not the only opportunity for public participation. This is the first of many, many opportunities for public participation. Tonight, hopefully, we want to get some good ideas. We want to get some questions out of the way. Maybe resolve some issues that people might have. We, at the Town Board level have created what we call a hamlet, I am sorry, I want to say hamlet implementation panel, that is a different acronym. We actually have a comprehensive plan task force. We have Martin Finnegan, the Town Attorney. Mark Terry is senior planner, Heather Lanza, we have our Town Attorney Martin Finnegan and town Planning Board member, Bill Cremers. The panel also includes Karen McLaughlin the Human Resources director. And Philip Beltz, my deputy supervisor. Who is so often in so many places I actually forget to announce his name because I am just so used to him being there. That being said, I am going to turn the opportunity over to Heather to present a quick power point presentation on what we are talking about as a comprehensive plan. HEATHER LANZA: And it will be quick, I promise. Basically we want to start with what is a comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan defines the visions, goals and policies for the physical growth and development of the community. These are based on the values of the residents and provide a blueprint for the future actions of decision makers, like the Town Board. Why do we need this new plan? Well, currently the town's current comprehensive plan is a combination of a number of different plans done over the years. You can see the long list of those plans in your handouts. It is on the second page of the handout. And there are a lot of them. We need a new plan so we can have a single document that our decision makers can reference for the policies that should guide future growth and development in the town. We also need to take stock of our current resources, including natural, historic and economic so we can better protect them in the future. How are we going to do this? Well, we propose to accomplish this through establishing the team that Scott just mentioned and then reviewing existing plans and studies, working closely with the Town Board and Planning Board and the other town committees where their expertise will help and also most importantly, with your help. We already went through the members of the comprehensive plan team. The responsibilities of that team are basically to produce the plan. We are going to do this largely in-house. A lot of other towns will hire consultants to do the whole thing but we feel we have the expertise right here to write most of this plan. We will consider hiring consultants in areas where we have no in-house expertise. And basically the teams are going to develop the chapters, draft and rewrite the plan. We are going to make Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 2 October 15, 2009 presentations of the draft to the public, Town Board and the Planning Board and we are going to incorporate the comments from the public and the Board and those other town committees into the drafts. The Town Board and the Planning Board will be involved throughout the process. The comp plan team will be providing regular reports, as well as the draft chapters as they are produced. We will be appearing regularly at Town Board work sessions and we also will be holding regular team meetings. The public input process that we are proposing will involve the public in every stage and in every chapter. Our plan includes a series of public meetings for input, held in five different central locations. Those locations are proposed to be the Human Resource center in Matfituck, the Town Hall in Southold, Recreation Center in Peconic, the Peconic Landing in Greenport and the Fishers Island Community Center. We also will be distributing surveys periodically and will take input through our website, by email as well as by letter. The website we are proposing to dedicate to the comprehensive plan will consist of the following: and these again are proposed and we will take your input on this design and what is going to be included there. We will put all the draft documents on the website, available for download. We will have a link for public input, we will have meeting information and schedules; a description of the work done to date and reference materials such as those other plans and studies that are listed in your handout. I did a little research on this, too, there are some great examples out there, so we don't have to reinvent the wheel for this website. And we are hoping to have the website up and running by mid November. The proposed chapters of the plan, you have a handout, on page 3 that lists all the chapters that we are proposing and one of the topics for input tonight is this list of chapters. So, the chapters are as follows: 1. Land use 2. Natural resources and environmental protection 3. Agriculture 4. Land preservation and open space 5. Housing 6. Economic development 7. Transportation 8. Infrastructure 9. Community Character 10. Parks and Recreation 11. Human Services and 12. Disaster and Emergency response. On the handout there is a little description of examples of what those chapters might include. And again, we want to hear input on this tonight and if you need more time to thing about it, we are providing a survey at the end of this for your comments that you can fill out tonight or hand in later. You can email us, the email address is a special address just for this. that is on the front page of your handout on the agenda and you can also send written comments by regular mail to the Planning Department. And on the topic of input for the chapters and also the whole process we are describing tonight, we would like to get your input by November 1 so that we can take them into consideration. We also drafted a proposed timeline, how, you know, what time frame do we think we will get this done? This is proposed and it is also a big estimate. It is hard to say exactly but the slides I am going to show summarize the timeline which is described in more detail in your handout on the last page. So beginning right now, with this public information meeting and this is really the start of the whole plan, we are getting involved really right at the beginning. In November, we are going to integrate all of the public input we get on the process of the chapters and finalize those two things. We also plan to have the website up and running, I hope by mid November. One of the first steps of getting the new plan done is gathering data, updating data, reviewing it and analyzing it. Examples of some of the data we would get are population statistics and current suggested land use. So while we are doing that, we think this winter and into very early spring, we can also Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 3 October 15, 2009 concurrently draft a few chapters that either don't need data or already have data analysis done. And then we hope by April 2010, to have four chapters drafted and ready for your review. And then in May 2010, we would incorporate public comments and rewrite those four chapters. The rest of the year, June through December, we thought that cycle would continue with, we thought four chapters at a time might be a nice chunk of information to try to go through and we do it two more times. Have the, you know, the whole cycle I just described. Hoping to have the whole plan ready as a draft to present to the Town Board in January 201 I. and then the next step, the next step after the plan is drafted and given to the Town Board, we begin the environmental review of the draft plan through the SEQRA process. And that is as far as we have gotten so far. Next we will hand out surveys that we have and we will move to the questions and comments time. Thanks. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: One thing I want to underscore tremendously, is that this is a community document. This is a public document. This is not a document that is going to be created by staffers. This can be created by the public. We started this process, the cornerstone to the comprehensive master plan is the hamlet stakeholders initiative that was undertaken a few years back. We had stakeholders from each of the eight hamlets get together a vision. We separated those visions or those goals into short term and long term. The short term goals get worked on regularly by the hamlet implementation panel. The long term goals, in order to achieve those, you need to make fundamental changes to the town code. Fundamental changes to zoning, to legislation, to things like that. It is not enough to say we don't want to see box stores in the downtown, we need to look at our code and say how do we get there, how do we address that? We also have to have a vetting process with the general public. That is what this whole process is about. It is about incorporating those, using those as a cornerstone of a new comprehensive plan and then also because the hamlet stakeholder recommendations were about each of the hamlets, we have 53 square miles and lots of other issues to incorporate into this document as well. The agricultural component, open space, transportation, economic concerns. All of those things need to put on the table. Do you have, the questionnaires, do you want to distribute right now? yeah, does anybody now want to take the opportunity now to ask any questions or raise any issues while we distribute the questionnaire? MARYANN LIBERTORE: Hi, I am Maryann Libertore and my question was to Heather. What are the chapters that she deems have already been sort of half written or don't have to have data compiled or whatever? MS. LANZA: We actually haven't determined that exactly yet. MS. LIBERTORE: Okay. When will you know, then? MS. LANZA: Probably in the next couple of months because we need to do data analyses. We are evaluating that now. MS. LIBERTORE: How will we know that? How will you communicate that to us? Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 4 October 15, 2009 MS. LANZA: That is a good question. We will have to come up with that. I mean, I am thinking the website is going to put a lot of information out and we weren't planning on having a public meeting to discuss that exactly. MS. LIBERTORE: No but I am concerned that there are parts of this impressive schematic that you deem have already been done. MS. LANZA: It wasn't that they have already been done, it is just that there may be certain chapters where we already have current data, so we don't need to have a data gathering period. In other words, that December through March is data gathering for chapters like land use, some of the other chapters. But some of the other chapters like community character, you may not need data because it may already be there .... MS. LIBERTORE: And so when you present such chapters, you would also present the data underlying that says it has already been compiled? MS. LANZA: Definitely. Yeah. Yeah. We will have the background. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Like transportation for instance. We have done a lot of traffic studies, so we have a lot of traffic study reports that we have to just implement into this, that have already been done recently. MS. LANZA: Yeah. That is a good example. HOWARD MEINKE: Hi, my name is Howard Meinke. I am a member of the NFEC land use committee. I just want to applaud the Board and the Planning Department for getting into this master plan thing. We at NFEC have thought for a while that it should be happening and now it is and I feel very good about that. I would just like to add something, tonight's presentation is so orientated around schedule and mechanical approach which you can't do without and I am not badmouthing it but I would like to just list a couple of things that I think are driving forces behind a master plan and I think they would do well to sit in everybody's head while they are thinking of more detailed questions and answers. And one of those is the world food supply is stressed by increasing production and shipping costs and the continuous loss of arable land, rain is lessening, the effects of climate change. The food supply is further pressured by increasing world population hence an increase in world hunger. In the face of this, Southold's agricultural base must be maintained. We have to look very carefully at development proposals, agriculture and food production is important here, it is important worldwide. We belong to the whole world. A lot of us don't really think so but we do. And that is important, it should be a major part of the master plan. Current science raises the specter of global climate change. Water shortages, displaced people due to rising sea levels, loss of farmland are immediate, glaring results. Support of non-polluting atmosphere friendly energy sources become a first priority. Here again, you have to think worldwide. But I think responsible citizens do think worldwide. And I think that is an important part of what we do here. Loss of productivity of the world's salt water bodies Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 5 October 15, 2009 is a big contributor to world hunger. It becomes a priority for a town surrounded by marshes, creeks, bays and the sound that are actually the nurseries of the seas. To actively combat the causes of the loss, we must eliminate pollutants, surface and subterranean, and treat the sea water as sacrosanct. We really have to support the Trustee regulations, we have to stiffen the Trustee regulations if modem science says we do. This, I also think is not selfish but if you look out there, it is very important. Now, our open space, local wine and produce, abundance of clean beaches and water for boating, fishing and a relaxed non-urban atmosphere have made tourism our profitable industry base. I think that looks to me to be a true case now and I think we want to maintain it and make it work for us, both in the retail areas and out in the country. Interestingly, the efforts to save agriculture because of ever increasing importance, the effort to reduce climate change by embracing green energy and green energy conservation and efforts to save the productivity of the seas by controlling pollution of all sorts, play right into our citizens hands and their efforts to keep it rural. And keeping it rural is a statement I have heard out of this microphone any number of times in this Town Hall over the past few years. We become, we have become a magnet for tourism, which is good for business; we do good for the residents by maintaining low taxes and a non-urban, open and rural environment and not least, we will be doing our part in battling the world's problems. Thus, these four points and strong policies make them happen and should be a keystone of the plan. Land use policies that preserve agriculture and open space and limit residential development. Attention to Trustee matters, in that the salt water food source must be protected. We must limit human interference and support setbacks, runoff controls, etc. Attention to underground aquifer quality and the effects of fertilizers and pesticides, septic flow and other pollutants as well as surface runoff. We should pay attention to keeping business' downtown and keeping out the big box stores, maintain the small town rural ambience, our attraction is directly related to our not urban feel. Actions designed to support the national objective of energy self sufficiency and reduction of climate change causing activities, we certainly should support those because the climate change leads to all sorts of bad things, like I just said. Maintaining those qualities that draw tourists and deny those urbanizing effects will change the character of Southold. So to keep the place the way we want it, if we do the things mentioned here, we will do the fight thing and we will do the right thing simultaneously for our residents and our second homeowners. Thank you. BENJA SCHWARTZ: Good evening, Supervisor Russell, members of the Town Board. Many of you might know I have been called the Southold Town gadfly, watchdog, somebody last week called me Mayor Schwartz. I find those labels flattering, not because I am looking for attention. I feel I earned those labels because I bbject to corruption of government that serve private interests and I seek to establish the public interest as the first priority of govemment. The priority of the public interest applies to every issue that local government deals with but most particularly to the subject of this meeting. And if this process is going to succeed, it is going to require us to refrain from doing business as usual, everybody coming up here and talking about their private interests and for us to focus on the public interest. The subject of this meeting Southold 2020, I call it a foundation for the future. By looking at where we are now in the present Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 6 and where we are going, I think we can make a choice if we want to just leave things alone and keep moving in the same direction we have been moving or take a different path. I thank the Town Board for realizing that Southold Town needs a plan. It was easy when there was nothing here, you came and you just decided where you wanted to build and built and it had to relate to the nature because that is all there was around it. But now, we already have so much development and so little space lef~ to develop, it is getting harder and harder to fit in. A real common plan thoroughly describes the current land use and zoning, predicts future land use and proposes alternative land use regulations to provide hope for the future. On the other hand, from what I can see so far of the current planning process that is occurring here tonight, the Town Board is putting the cart before the horse. And any resulting plan is more likely to damage then improve the natural and cultural environments and economy. I call municipal planning common planning because although these plans are usually called master or comprehensive plans, they are neither omnipotent nor all inclusive. The essence of common plans is to reflect input from all members of the community. And plan for the interests of all parts of the community. Southold, we have residents of all ages, farmers, businesses, non-profit civic organizations, educational and religious groups, tourists and other visitors. A real common plan plans for all. The Town Board's choice to lead this planning process I find to be unfortunate. I think, believe there is a conflict of interest. The Town Board is the only entity with the legal authority to review and decide whether or not to adopt or reject a plan. Writing a plan or administering the planning process itself is tantamount to being the judge, jury and the lawyers. A comp plan task force or team still dominated, these people still work under the jurisdiction of the Town Board. It is almost as bad as if the Town Board were to try to write the plan itself. At the Town Board work session, the issue of who is going to be controlling the planning process was swiftly decided based on the false premise that only the Town Board can lead the planning process. To the contrary, if the Town Board were to issue an invitation for people willing to chair or serve on a planning commission, it is almost certain that many more volunteers more qualified than the Town Board members would apply to serve. They could serve at no cost to taxpayers and would be better able to focus on the mission of planning. The Southold Town planning director and staff could still serve as ex officio members of the Southold 2020 commission but the commission would have an independence that the Town Board doesn't have. The political input into planning, I believe is disadvantageous. The clincher should be that the Town Board is or should be too busy with other business. For example, and I will be brief here, for example the website. Currently there is no link on the homepage to the Planning Board. On the directory page, there are links for the Planning Board and the Planning Department. They both go to the page which is named and titled Planning Department. But the first header on that page is Planning Board. The Planning Board and the Planning Department are separate and have different roles. But on the website they are presented as one entity. It is hard to believe that the same confusion does not exist offiine. And this is pervasive throughout the website and throughout the organization of this town government and I am really sad that the current budget crisis didn't result in an initiative to clarify and reform the organization of the town government. I think that could have made a difference and that would have given the Town Board something to do. They could have appointed a Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 7 October 15, 2009 commission. Anyway, we the community can appreciate the unique character of our local region. We expect the Town Board to adopt a plan and enact a regulatory scheme which reflect and protect our local character. Or we can accept deterioration of our local character as inevitable. It is our choice. Let's make the right one. Thank you. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Thank you, Mayor Schwartz. MARIAN SALERNO: My name is Marian Salerno from Southold. Going back a little history of community input. I was a stakeholder both on the 2004 report which we presented this document for one hamlet and this was 2007 and innumerable hours, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of hours. This is what we put in and after coming to the conclusion of a lot of things, we looked back at the UK report which was in '91 and they recommended almost identical things that we recommended. And now all of this is being put aside for a new report and some of the people who are serving on the Board had input during some of the meetings for the stakeholders committee. So I don't quite understand, you are asking for community input and this is just the hamlet of Southold, this isn't any of the other hamlets at all. And one of the recommendations we made under grave study and the thinking is to go to the halo zones and hamlet centers and designate density population areas. We specifically designated the Chamews property as a good place to develop a hamlet center with density. It was sold to Peconic Land Trust and the town went ahead and took that off the plate for density and we don't have that much land in the hamlet of Southold. So I, going back and looking for input, you had a lot of input. This is just one hamlet. So I really am a little disappointed that none of this is being included because the UK was scrapped, this is being scrapped and we are going on and this is going back, this is going to be 20 years. Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. Nothing, nothing in the hamlet stakeholders recommendations is being scrapped. Again, I will explain it a second time. There are two' levels of the hamlet recommendations. Short term goals and long term goals. You have to understand that the teeth to that recommendation is going to come with substantial changes to the town code, to the zoning map, to everything else. That, in order to accomplish that, you have to redo the entire master plan of the town and then embody that in the town zoning map. That is how you are going to see a lot of your efforts embodied. In a new map. In new zones. In creation of new zones. Also, since you mentioned Chamews, that is a good example of consensus. Actually hamlet stakeholders from your hamlet recommended the preservation of that parcel. Some recommended including that in the receiving zone for density. Some recommended preservation. That's, this is again, a community document. It is not a definitive and distinctive to say, well that should be higher density zoning, well, some of the hamlet stakeholders said, you know, that should be preserved. Those are the decisions that the Town Board has to you know, sort of sort through and at the end of the day make a decision based on other concerns, other issues, other interests. Preservation goals, things like that. All of these have to be brought back together into a seamless document for a comprehensive plan. But I think it is just not accurate to suggest that the hamlet stakeholders of Southold recommended Charnews for higher density. If you read the Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 report and I think there is a hamlet stakeholder here from Southold that can speak to the issue of Charnews being endorsed for preservation. You aren't the only one. That is the issue, look, a community document is going to have a lot of disagreement, we know that. Also, getting back to what Benja said, we are not leading the charge. A hamlet implementation panel and the Planning Board of which some of the members are here tonight, are going to take this charge, do the work and bring it back to the Town Board. We are not, you are right, we are busy. We don't have the time to shepherd the new comprehensive master plan. We just have the time to make sure they have the resources they need to get the job done. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: And there is also something about, Benja, there is also something about expectations of what people are going to look for in a comprehensive plan. Don't forget if a comprehensive plan had been done five years ago, only five years ago, in those years we passed big box store legislation, a townwide drainage code, cell tower code, code on events on town properties and a wind power code. None of those things would ever have been envisioned... MR. SCHWARTZ: The wetlands code. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Well, the wetlands code was 2005, thank you. But that was, so these things wouldn't even have been envisioned if a comprehensive plan had been done only four years ago, okay? So, you have to have expectations for what the document is really going to be and no, we are not always going to agree on it. MR. SCHWARTZ: But you didn't really address my point. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Which point was that? MR. SCHWARTZ: What would be to prevent you from appointing a planning commission? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We have a Planning Board and that, they, we appointed a Planning Board and that is what they do. They are not just here to review site plans. They are here to take this town and show leadership in the long term planning, envisioning of the town. That is exactly what they are here for. And they are up to the task. I know everyone of them. I have all faith and confidence in them. MR. SCHWARTZ: At the direction of the Town Board, that is one role that the Planning Board can play but as opposed to the initial composition of the Planning Board, which originally was a planning commission now it is involved with other business. Are they here tonight? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Three of the members. Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 9 MR. SCHWARTZ: Some of them. Okay, well, I was at their meeting a couple of days ago and it did not sound like they were prepared to play a key role in this process and again, I ask, I am not objecting to have professional staff work on the board but couldn't they work with an independent commission? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Isn't that what the hamlet stakeholders were? They were independent representatives of the community. I opened up .... MR. SCHWARTZ: And that is another problem with the way that this, you are saying that the hamlet stakeholders are the comer of a comprehensive plan .... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: The cornerstone. For the hamlets, absolutely. MR. SCHWARTZ: They are the opposite of a comprehensive plan. They are from a focus on the inward, towards the, each location. Comprehensive plan by law is supposed to start with a focus on the whole. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: The problem is is that you have to synthesize those eight hamlets into one seamless plan, that, this is the next step in the process. That those hamlet stakeholders, when I first got on board, the first thing I did was open up the stakeholder process to anybody from any hamlet that wanted to participate. We ran ads in the paper. We didn't just have a handpicked group of people. That was the previous administration. I said anyone that wants to participate can come on forward and participate and we included everyone. MR. SCHWARTZ: So what you are saying is you yourself recognized deficiencies in the process but you feel that your, you were able to correct those deficiencies? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: In the hamlet stakeholder process not in the larger issue, it still doesn't take the place of a comprehensive master plan. We can debate all night on the nuances of a master plan but I am hoping we can move on to new issues. FREDDIE WACHSBERGER: Freddie Wachsberger from Orient. I really compliment your taking on, reviewing all of these earlier initiatives, which a lot of us here I think have been involved in and thought were just sort of put in the basement now and covered with dust and never looked at again and I hope you brought them all out and looked at them because an awful lot of work was done on these, particularly with the stewardship exchange report which involved a great number of people. I think this is such an important thing that you are doing, I think one of the most important parts of it is to do it in such a way that the final plan is very tightly written, that the zoning code actually reflects it and that the zoning code is written in such a way that it can be enforced because I think one of the problems with what we have got now is very serious lack of enforcement. But what I wanted to say essentially about all of this is that because so many changes presumably as you have suggested will come about in terms of zoning, in Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 10 October 15, 2009 terms of regulation, shouldn't you entertain a moratorium on development for the year during which this process is going on? BETH STEARNS: I am Beth Steams from Mattituck and I jumped up because I thought that what I had to say related to the last speaker. I was here Tuesday night for the meeting of the Planning Board in regard to the 7-11 proposed takeover of the Citgo station and a lot of the comments of the public, there were many negative comments about the 7-11 coming in and the Planning Board for the most part said that they were not in a position to deal with the broader issues that people brought up, that they were more concerned with specific site plan issues. I was advised by some people that I should come tonight and this may not be the forum but I have heard that perhaps the 7-11 development can't be prevented because that would be considered spot zoning but in light of what is going on, in light of the work that the hamlet stakeholders have already done, I feel sure that most, just from what I have read in the paper and heard from people over the last years, that most people in Southold Town would not be in favor of 7-11 coming to Mattituck. And in addition, that specific site already has such problems with traffic and you know, inappropriate, you know, dangerous situation invites loitering, it exacerbates problems that are already going on in that area. And so I wonder whether, in light of this process that is going on, the development of that, the further development could just be stopped until it is determined that that particular business would be part of the master plan. It would seem logical that it would not. And since them is a change of hands going on there, why not take the opportunity to do something that would further the purposes of the comprehensive plan and not subject the Mattituck residents to an exacerbation of the problems that they would then perhaps never be able to get out of. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I think that is an excellent point. I am going to be perfectly candid and I am sorry, I want to apologize to my Town Board members for what I am about to say but I tried to ring that alarm bell some time ago on the convenience store in Mattituck. I have nothing against 7-11 per se, in fact I am probably at each 7-11 more each day than all of this in this room combined but as a practical reality, the 7-11 in Mattituck, wrong place, wrong time. Mattituck has had enough, I don't blame them. They have had enough. They have watched a lot of the alarm bells go off only after you get past the two steeples in Cutchogue. It seems like whatever happens in Mattituck doesn't seem to be a big deal until someone proposes it east of that hamlet. There just wasn't a consensus at the Town Board level at the time to take any draconian necessary steps to sort of bring that to a halt, which would have been a moratorium in the hamlet centers. Which we have adopted as part of the stakeholder initiatives. We straggled with it. Legally it is not going to be easy but again, if there was a will to at least bring things to a halt so that we can figure out our best legal options. We could have done that. We didn't. So we are doing the best we can with the convenience store legislation now and some other changes that will hopefully address some of the other issues. That is all I can say. MS. STEARNS: I am assuming it is dead in the water? Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 11 October 15, 2009 SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I am not saying it is dead in the water, I think there are issues currently in the town code that could come to bear that could address it but it is going to be prone to litigation if I talk any further. Every time I open I mouth, every time I mention the word Heritage a new petition gets filed in the court in Riverhead, so I am not going to comment any more on it but I would say that I do think there, I do think that you need to ask the Town Board to consider a moratorium in all the hamlet centers in order to achieve any meaningful changes to that application. JEN HARTNAGEL: Good evening, my name is Jen Hartnagel, I am here on behalf of the Group for the East End. We are here tonight to lend our thanks and our support for this process. We would like to thank the Town Board for getting into this process and we look forward to participating as it unfolds. In our experience, planning is truly crucial and it can positively or negatively impact communities in far reaching ways. And in this point in Southold's development, this comp plan is 100 % needed and we fully support it. So much of a comprehensive plan has to do with visioning and insuring that this document accurately and strategically incorporates the communities vision of the future, it is very important. We did come prepared tonight with a few suggestions that we would like to see incorporated into the plan. We would hope that the plan addresses some concems and devises strategy that deals with infrastructure expansion, such as power lines and water mains and potential sewering and the potential for growth inducement. We would also like to see strong recommendations on the stewardship of the town's preserved lands moving forward. Also, an in depth examination of certain sections of the code such as the wetlands code or the accessory apartment code and that they are kept up to date and that they address the current use of the town and the current circumstances. We would also love to see that the draft comp plan ensures that the Peconic estuary comprehensive management plan and also the Long Island Sound study management plan is incorporated in that we are adequately addressing these in protecting our water resources and lastly as our entire country begins to sustain sustainability, we would hope that the comp plan also provides strong suggestions so that Southold can embrace these principals as well. And this is not an exhaustive list and I can go on and on but we are just here tonight to express our support and we would truly like to see a planning mechanism that incorporates as many as Southold's diverse interests into this plan as possible and that this process truly incorporates as much public participation as possible. RAY HUNTINGTON: Ray Huntington, Cutchogue. I would like to ask you, the team to consider an additional chapter. That chapter would be on population. I am not sure about the legal aspects or ramifications of a chapter on population but it is critical to the lifestyle issues that are listed already on the outline. So I would be interested in at least exploring that idea of adding a 13th chapter for luck. The, in general, this is, an iteration of any comprehensive plan should be brief. I go as far as suggesting that each chapter be limited to only 3 pages. Plus any charts or exhibits that are needed and required to explain those three pages. This is a vision it is not an operating plan, and I know you well understand that. But what it is is an endorsed guide to the destination and if we get it to be something that is going to take a millennium to accomplish, obviously it won't happen. It is important too, that the Town Board commission the work to be done here on the comprehensive plan on 20/20 as a resolution, that is in writing. So right up front Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 12 we have a common understanding across the board as to what it is we are doing here. This has been a characteristic that has marred certain earlier excellent, work with excellent spirit and diligence and everything but it didn't come out the way the recipe called for it. Because it wasn't effective. So what the Town Board needs to specify, in writing, up front what is to be done here. One last thought, maybe not the last but as a taxpayer I would rather pay for the distillate rather than the wart. I know I recognize it is much harder to write concisefully and with meaning than to write profusely. We have seen a lot of that from consultants. But I think with the in house activity that is planned here and our planning director, we have a good chance of doing it. One last piece of advice for us all, though, a long time ago now Pogo defined who the enemy was. So that is what we really have to be careful about. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Who else would like to address? GLYNIS BERRY: Hi. Again I would like to commend the Board and the Planning Department. I think this is a great venture and. I add my commendations. One, I was hoping that all those reports that you listed could be on the interact? Great. Okay. Two, I was wondering if you could add septic and waste management? I know you don't have jurisdiction over septic but I think there are major impacts that we need to consider as part of that. Three, I was wondering if you could look at the Town of Southold as being a sustainable community and part of that would be looking at capacities. It could be capacities of the water, of the seawater, fresh water, the land, it could be the capacity of the road because we don't want another road. It could be the school systems and how to control that and from there, apply sort of equally across the town, according to segment. I mean, there will be variations of that, I am not saying, but if you do that, it won't be a first come, first serve approach and you will never reach capacity because not everybody will want to go to the extremes. So it is just an idea to consider and as part of that, a lot of communities are defining their carbon footprint as a way of measuring and so maybe we need to look at some measuring points of what we want to sort of check our success rate on as we move forward. And some of those factors may be different from what they are now. and also incentives on how we make decisions. Can we find a slightly different model? It is just a different way of measuring. Could we add a chapter on integration? Because this list of items, when you, sometimes when you look at the subject matter individually, you get one answer but then when you start understanding how one impacts another, you might want to change that scenario. And I think it is very important to pull it back together. And I think there is urgency right now. we have environmental urgency, we have development urgency coming from the west. There may be big changes to the west of us with new regional centers that make us more of a bedroom, attractive as a bedroom community. So I think we need to start being more proactive. Just the way you were with land preservation, you might need to look at other components and take a stand and maybe put some resources in and then get those back in a rotating system. MELANIE NORDEN: I too applaud the effort however, I am very concerned that the role that you have outlined to the public is not only nebulous but utterly informal. And it flies in the face of a current trend in community visioning and planning where there is not Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 13 October 15, 2009 just participation and in this case it is a rather didactic setup where we get up to the mic and state our opinions but it usually defines ways in which towns encourage what are vibrant dialogues. By not creating any role for the public at all and by keeping this process very informal and not formalized, you get as a Town Board or a committee to pick and choose whether any public participation or public opinion is important or will be incorporated. Now on the first slide of the power point presentation, it talks about Southold's vision. But without public participation, who is Southold? And what is the vision that we are discussing? And I agree and underscore some of what Benja had to say in that I really think that this process, though it is vitally important to all of us and it has been 25 years in the making, does need somewhat more of a formal public role than what you have offered and the reason that is important is because we have no idea whether anything that we say here has any impact or meaning at all. And I would underscore that given the meeting at the Planning Board the other night, the Planning Board really did make it quite clear that their role was to review a site plan and not to create a vision for the Town of Southold and I will talk more about that on Tuesday night when we discuss small as opposed to large convenience store legislation and some of the problems, massive problems I see in creating that kind of double standard. So I don't really want to address that tonight but I really would like to encourage you, in the stakeholder process was an important process. About a year and a half ago, the town jettisoned that process and stopped it in its tracks. The stakeholders have not met formally in a year and a half, I am a Greenport stakeholder, and whether people agreed or didn't agree with the stakeholder process, now we have come where many people put a lot of time and energy in but we have no idea what, if any, of our recommendations will be incorporated and we have no formalized role to see that some of them will be. So we basically have five people, all of whom really are your employees, and they report to you as a Town Board and so there is kind of a concern that that is a setup. That these people, well meaning and professionals, still do not report to the public as such. Particularly in this process they report to their supervisors. And the people that hire them, the town government. So I think and particularly .... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: And the people that hire us are you. We are elected officials. We are the most accountable people in this room. MS. NORDEN: I understand that but I am talking about specifically the role that you have relegated the public to. And basically you have said in less then two weeks, we would like your input. Less than two weeks. We would like something by November 1. You have created a survey which basically is the most generic and it doesn't answer any questions. It basically says do you agree or not agree with the process? So what? You know, there is such a larger, deeper, abiding massive issue and the fact that to ask the public to respond within two weeks in the first go-round and to basically say that you can come up to these meetings and you can talk at the mic but it really may not matter because we don't have a role to play and my concern is that it is not your concern somehow on the Town Board level that you are not incorporating the public. I mean, I don't see any concern on the part of this process to say we really care about public input. Because you relegated the public to a pick and choose role which you yourselves (inaudible) in the best of all possible worlds. And maybe you do care somewhat about Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 14 what the public thinks but I am talking about a formal role for the public so that we as the public can ensure that the vision that this plan creates for the Town of Southold is a public vision and it is not the vision of the planning committee or planning implementation committee or whatever you want to call it, that you have assigned. And I am not casting aspersions on that committee but I am saying that the process really doesn't allow for any formal role of the public and I think that is a serious and perhaps fatal flaw. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay. When you say formal role of the public, you mean the formal role of you the hamlet stakeholders? Inaudible MS. NORDEN: No, I didn't say that. Scott, I did not address that. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let me explain something. There will be public meetings, there will be input. This is going to be a moving target as we develop it but you need to understand that ultimately, you judge us, myself, Albert, Vinnie, Bill, Tom, whoever wins in November, you judge how much we have taken your input and incorporated it into the plan. You judge that at the voting, that is what the accountability is all about. We are the accountable party. You need to say did you hear us? Did you take us seriously? You have got to start looking at the product. MS. NORDEN: No but I think frankly there is plenty of time before one gets to the voting booth and it is not just whether we elect or dis-elect or you know, get rid of public officials. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Inaudible, that we are hem to listen and have the public included in the entire but the entire public included, not just the people prone to get up at the public meetings. But the entire public. MS. NORDEN: Good. Alright, well then tell me... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Inaudible MS. NORDEN: Tell me how this process because I really don't see that. Because the role that you have assigned to the public is purely capricious. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Mark? MARK TERRY: I just want to clarify that the comprehensive plan is in process. It began many years ago with all these (inaudible) with all these plans. If you notice that the zoning map hasn't been changed in years. This effort is to consolidate, organize and then implement all of those recommendations, all those goals, all those policies, into a document and also update it to our smart growth planning principles. That is what we are doing here. MS. NORDEN: Yeah but you are going to make choices along the way, right? Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 15 MR. TERRY: And in fact at the same time, the hamlet implementation panel is filling potholes and building sidewalks and assessing street lighting for reduction in energies. We are moving. We are doing this. MS. NORDEN: I understand that. But you are making choices in the process. MR. TERRY: Yes but .... MS. NORDEN: This is not just a regurgitation .... MR. TERRY: We are implementing your recommendations. How many people, I just want to see a hand, how many people were involved in the hamlet stakeholder process? Alright, enough said. MS. NORDEN: Well, no, it is not enough said because I don't know where in fact... MR. TERRY: You need to understand... MS. NORDEN: ...those recommendations will be incorporated. I mean, you are saying that obviously this is a moving, living breathing document but you are not going to be regurgitating simply every recommendation that has been made in all of these plans for the last 25 years. You are going to be making choices... Mr. TERRY: Right. MS. NORDEN: And creating choices along the way and ultimately you may be distilling a lot of that information and coming up with something that is actually different than some of those recommendations. So you are not just a body that is an implementation body or a consolidation body because in your first fly you talked about the vision for Southold's future. So this is a visioning process. This is not simply an implementation process... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: A lot of the visioning .... MS. NORDEN: So I am addressing the fact that the choices you make along the way because there are active choices, are going to really do need a formalized role for the public. At least in my thinking. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: The role, there has been a formalized role. A lot of the visioning has already taken place through the hamlet stakeholder initiatives. That is where the visioning is. The problem is when you say, look we want to see, we don't want box stores, we have got to achieve that. That is where the zoning map comes from. It is like the LWRP, it is a wonderful document but it is meaningless on its face without a zoning map to enforce it. All of these things have to be synthesized into one document, presented to the entire public .... MS. NORDEN: Of course. Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 16 October 15, 2009 SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: The entire public, for consumption and for comment and for review. That is what this process is. I envision many, many public meetings as we go. Nobody is sitting here, it is why we had this meeting, so the public doesn't think we are going to sit here, hand this off to a bunch of bureaucrats, we are going to draft something up and we are going to rush it offto the Town Board to pass it. And we are in a no win situation. We invite the public to the very first meeting to start the process off and someone from the public says you are not including the public. Well, what do you think this is about? Of course we are including the public... MS. NORDEN: No, no. I am saying you are not including the public in a formalized role that essentially would count the public, we are not being making choices, they will be making comments. They will not be shaping, they will be reacting. And the process that is reactive .... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: They will be reacting to the vision you have already outlined in your hamlet stakeholder recommendations. That is what the public... MS. NORDEN: Well, that may or may not be. I mean, I haven't seen the document, so I really don't know if that is the case but again, as Benja pointed out, some people felt that the hamlet stakeholder process had its own limitations and that it in fact wasn't as far reaching as it could be, that it didn't incorporate the vision of many other people in the town that weren't part of the process. I am simply saying that I would like you to consider the role that you have outlined for the public, which I do see as reactive rather than proactive, as non-visioning and non-participatory because the only thing that you are allowing the public to do is get up and speak but there is no reassurance in any way, shape or form that any of the public comments that people make on this dais will in any way be incorporated. Because we don't have a role. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: You will have a role, you came up with the, you know Joe and Mary Bagadonos that live down the street, now it is going to be their opportunity to comment on the vision you have already outlined. MS. NORDEN: Sure, they will have a comment .... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Inaudible. MS. NORDEN: The point is, I am not saying they won't have a chance to comment, I am saying they may not have a chance, that there comments will be considered and be part of the final plan. Yes, of course they can comment. But that is not what I am addressing. You have created a forum for comment but you have not created a forum for public, for the public to help in the process of shaping those changes. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Joe and Mary Bagodonus might not like some of the things you recommended. Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 17 October 15, 2009 MS. NORDEN: Of course they may not. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: This is their opportunity to participate in the visions you have already outlined for us. MS. NORDEN: It is their opportunity to comment but I would not call that participation. Thanks. MS. LANZA: I guess I just want to say that this is early in the process and we are still developing how we are going to run these meetings. I don't, I agree with Melanie in that this isn't the best way for people to truly participate, just get up and talk at the mic, so we are going come up with different ways to do that and have different type, when we do our community meetings. I don't have all that outlined yet because it is so early in the process but we are going to take those comments that you made, Melanie, and think about that. How do we make this a better process? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yeah, that is what we are here for tonight, is to get those suggestions on well, we would like to see regular meetings on the third Thursday of the month, you know, the website. These are why we have, this all started because Mr. Meinke caught me in the hallway a few weeks ago and mentioned the septic, sewer consideration which I think Glynnis just spoke to as well. It is an excellent idea. We are trying to, what we wanted to figure out was the mechanism for capturing those ideas and putting them all in one spot, so when I go back and start discussing some other issue on the agenda, I don't forget about it. That is what this is all about. It is to include the public in this process. That is why we had this meeting. We are not here tonight to draft the comprehensive plan. We are here to listen on how the process is structured and how we can accommodate all of the concerns in this process but I need to underscore, we are not ignoring the stakeholders, they are the genesis and the basis of the bulk of this plan. WALTER STROHMEYER: I am Walter Strohmeyer from Orient. As a pragmatist, I am concerned about Orient and I see no interest on the part of the town in the plans of the Suffolk County Water Authority. I was first here as a summer resident in 1929, of course I was rather small then. As a teenager I worked on my future brother-in-law's farm and except for my time in the Army during the Korean war, I have spent every summer of my life in Orient. Since I retired in 1990, I have lived here most of each year and have been essentially since 2000 a full time resident of the hamlet. Formerly, when I was growing up, over 20 farms and three grading houses, potato grading houses, were involved in the potato business in Orient. Now those potato crops are a thing of the past, the land is very fertile and still being, still very agricultural with three farms growing vegetables for Orient, surrounding communities and elsewhere on Long Island. A cattle farm, a bird farm, vineyards and (inaudible) and a number of nurseries. Though somewhat different than in the past, it is still a very bucolic place. With the introduction of the Suffolk County Water Authority pipeline to Brown's Hills, Orient would be changed drastically. The rural environment would be speedily lost. Spending almost $4 million for a few homes is a very bad idea. The consequences, whether intended or not, will include the following: houses could be built on ¼ acre lots on land now mostly zoned for either two acres or five acres, those below the 1938 hurricane flood line, thus changing totally the Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 18 present character of Orient. Since Orient is more an island than a peninsula, the waste from all these homes could eventually saturate the soil and destroy the purity, such as it is, of the Orient aquifer. This in turn would lead to pollution, Hallock's and Orient bays, the creeks, etc. and eventually a sewage plant could be a necessity. If you want a good example of this, travel to Block Island and see what the establishment of a sewer plant has done to the quality of the sea water and get a down wind whiff of the aroma of this plant. With respect to the further, the Suffolk County Water Authority, lack of public participation, Orient residents are apprehensive about the public main water project. The project does not involve any public participation, the town has done little to educate Orient about the project and Orient residents do not want any inappropriate development to result from this project. The project has been before the town Trustees since June 17, 2009, yet no one attempted to engage the community on this important issue. And a DEC permit has been issued to drill under Dam Pond, a critical environmental area, yet no environmental study is being done. Residents have written to DEC and the New York State environmental facilities corp to complain about this lack of review. My only point in reading this is you are developing a comprehensive plan but things are under way that could negate much of the benefit of this comprehensive plan if the town does not get in the way of the water authority and their plans to change the landscape of Orient. Thank you. JOAN OLSEN: My name is Joan Olsen and I live here in Southold and I am a little confused. Do you know whether there is a vision statement at this time that will guide the plan? Because I am impressed with the number of chapters and so on but obviously decisions have to be made all along as to what will fit. As I have heard the reference to the visions or whether there were visions in each of the hamlet plans but to me that seems to be one part I didn't see either in the list, that as you go about all these chapters or the discussion that I was interested in about the vision of, you mentioned, is there a vision statement? When will there be a vision statement? Certainly I would love to see the vision statement because I know there's all kinds of people that live here and have moved here and so on and I think that clearly will be the hardest thing to put to paper. What is the vision that is going to guide the plan? But how can you do the plan if there is not an agreed upon vision statement that most of the people who live and work here would relate to? MS. LANZA: About that, I just wanted to say I think our plan is to distill a vision fi'om the plans that are out there, where there were visioning processes and then provide that to get your new input on whether or not you think it still holds. UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible MS. LANZA: That will be one of the first things that would come out, I would say. COUNCILMAN WICKHAM: And would .... UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 19 October 15, 2009 MS. LANZA: Yeah. I mean, that is the whole point of this meeting. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That's, yeah, we are going to have meetings, we are going to have a website. We are going to start releasing over the next few months some of these things. I actually happen to think you raised an excellent point but the idea now, the challenge is for us to disseminate and include the public in that process as we move forward. Ruth? RUTHANN BRAMSON: I am Ruthann Bramson, I am with the East Marion community association and I would like to echo what others have said about appreciation for the Town Board moving forward with the comprehensive plan. I think what I have heard from several people since I have been here is a real strong interest in having a comprehensive planning process which really engages the public in a very genuine way. And that increasingly, Melanie mentioned that around the country, increasingly communities are doing that in ways that go significantly beyond the kind of standing up in meetings that where, we are seeing here today. And where public managers and elected officials frankly play largely a facilitator role in facilitating a community process and where there are opportunities for community members to be in meetings that are designed in such a way that people don't just have an exchange with you on a dais but with one another. So that people can engage with one another about their vision for the future of this community. After all, the way a community is built is by people talking with one another about what is most important to them. And the future of this community really belongs to all of us who live here. And so I have heard in multiple ways, in the time I have been sitting here, a strong request for doing this in a different way and I am encouraged to hear Heather say that she is thinking already about that. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you, Ruthann. We, actually with your help, that is exactly what we did with again the stakeholders, not to over reference that, but with your help out in East Marion when there was a lot of division over t hem. With your help we set up a good template there and that is how I would envision the future. In other words, you know, putting the stakeholder recommendations out as part of this plan, setting up these community meetings so that they are informal, they are not people just coming up and telling us what we are wrong with, it is those more community based discussions. I think we set up a very good model out there in East Marion. When I was out there that you had overseen that, that you facilitated. That is what I would envision as these move forward. Now the idea is to have more people at these meetings, to talk about these broader issues, not just, say, affordable housing but talk about the larger issues and develop those meetings throughout the entire community not just at Town Hall but Mattituck, Cutchogne, the libraries, you know, any empty building we can find. And that is the give and take of the process. Very much the template we set up out there. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: I think to follow on that, you might, we might look at that as a model. When we rewrote the wetland code, we met every week as a Trustee Board but we invited in environmental consultants, we invited in marina owners, marine contractors and different people who were completely involved in the process. You know, law enforcement, you know, everyone, at different meetings. And we might, Heather, we might think of setting that up each one of these chapters. Set up just an Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 20 informal meeting here with us, the Town Board, on each chapter and whoever wanted to come could come and have a discussion about that chapter. And then you would get input fi.om each one. MARYANN LIBERTORE: Hi, again, I am Maryann Libertore. I am the new president of the Orient Association and you know, I am new to this and I was first struck when I arrived tonight by the list of the previous supporting documents going back to 1982. I was pleased no doubt, to hear that Heather agrees with my initial response and some other comments that this is going to be put online because to see this kind of work, I mean, there are 34 documents here fi.om however many millions of years that... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: And millions of dollars. But I agree. MS. LIBERTORE: Yeah. and that is over? I mean, how could that be? My question is, and so I agree with the lady in the maroon and the lady in the aquamarine that you know, this doesn't seem to make sense to me. You all are putting out a glorious game plan but as a resident of Orient, I don't see how this works. Because we are stating down in the next few weeks, the Suffolk County Water Authority bringing in a water pipeline that nobody communicated to us about. You all apparently approved this in June, someone did in Southold Town, let me get my notes. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay. Nobody .... MS. LIBERTORE: The Trustee's approved it in June of 2009, there was absolutely no communications. We are looking at some of the records pertaining to how you all or Suffolk County is proposing to drill across the causeway and under Dam Pond which I am not an engineer but seems to me a very, very sensitive area and something that should be thought about a great deal and planned for and yet this is deemed a project that doesn't require environmental review? That doesn't seem to be common sensicle. I get the specific impression that you all and SCWA are pushing this through, yes you are because these monies have to be spent by February 1, I would like to encourage you and SCWA to jump to another project and spend those much needed funds that we need for economic recovery but Orient does not want a pipeline for 32 houses. Many of the residents of those 32 houses, if not the majority, do not want that pipeline. Weren't consulted about the pipeline and in fact, bought their houses knowing that the water was faulty and they were fine with that. There seems to be an economic system right now in place where you filter such houses water systems. Everybody seems to be happy with it and we don't want that pipeline and I will tell you why we don't want the pipeline. We don't want the pipeline because we know that it will change the ratio for our development tights to East Marion and other points and we don't want to be down zoned to ¼ acre or ¼ acre lots. We like our 2 to 5 acre lots. We like our open space. We like our, sorry Scott, heritage. And we want to keep it that way. We do not want SCWA coming across the causeway. We don't. In fact, talking about future planning, I am going to work past who struck John and what I think I am heating here as the skepticism with respect to all these hnmongous hours of work, what we would like to see for future planning purposes in Orient is maintenance of the character of our community, meaning open spaces, scenic Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 21 October 15, 2009 vistas, maintaining the historic and rural character of our hamlet. That doesn't sound like a water pipeline to me. That doesn't sound like ¼ acre lots to me. We want to see more public participation with SCWA. Why would we go along with this new format for future planning if when all the previous future, you know, all the previous plans and the laws don't seem to have been followed with respect to this pipeline. So why are we going forward with you know, sucking our thumbs and waiting for the next plans to come along where we don't even see evidence of you all going forward with the law as it stands now. We also want to see special groundwater protection because we have a confined and fragile groundwater system, we are all part of the Long Island aquifer but the aquifer under Orient is even more confined and more threatened and specifically threatened by that pipeline. And we want to see a groundwater degradation contained. Mr. Terry came out in June and told out stakeholders that the drains hadn't been cleaned in what would appear to be years, there is $200,000 that has been earmarked for Orient drains. We haven't seen any evidence of someone coming around consequently inspecting them after last spring, cleaning them out. So I think all these folks who I don't know but I esteem as my neighbors have grounds for their cynicism and I can hear it. And the grounds are that people talk and talk and talk and talk and make recommendations and everybody quibbles about every little sentence but in the end there is no observation of what the actual conclusions are, if not the laws. Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Let's just, I just want to quickly and I will have you come up next, let me just separate us very quickly from Suffolk County Water Authority. The Town Board never endorsed bringing water, let me just finish please, bringing water across the causeway to Brown's Hills. There was a water map that was done years ago before any of us sat on this Town Board, that recognized Brown's Hills as an area that needed public water. We had just talked about this two weeks ago, we think we found an opportunity here to insert ourselves in the process because there has never been or what we can see a water map or a narrative that suggested that any previous Town Board endorsed bringing water across the causeway. We had asked Martin Finnegan to research every aspect of that. If it is the case where they have no inherent right under the agreement to bring water across the causeway, the first thing the Town is going to do is declare itself lead agent in a SEQRA process and demand a public heating so that, in other words, we will assert our authority based on that water map. We were under the original impression that because well, that was on the original water map we had to let it go. We just recently revisited that issue and said that we don't know t at that is thecase. But the Suffolk County Water Authority operates under the authority of New York State, not Southold Town. Just so you know. and it is a battle that we have .... MS. LIBERTORE: I am very familiar from my professional life in authorizing and constructing authorities. So I know the game with authorities. And that is a lovely disclaimer on your part but the fact is, is that you gave these people the right to go forward. You permitted them to go forward. Literally, you gave them a permit that said they didn't have to do an environmental survey. JUSTICE EVANS: The Trustees. Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 22 October 15, 2009 COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: No. MS. LIBERTORE: The Tmstee's. I am sorry. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Separately elected board. MS. LIBERTORE: Excuse me. Excuse me. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We didn't think we had the ability to weigh in on the issue. Again, recently having legal discussions which I will not discuss more formally because of what might happen but we had had Martin Finnegan research an aspect of this that we believe will allow us to insert ourselves in that process and hopefully bring, what I think foolish waste of stimulus money. MS. LIBERTORE: You betcha. And I am totally in agreement but we do look to you as the Supervisor to insert yourself quickly and stop that pipeline. Thank you. MS. WACHSBERGER: Just as a point of information, the Trustee's did give a permit to the Suffolk County Water Authority to go forward. It is dated I think July 19th or something like that, there is a statute of limitations. If we consider it and we have been discussing whether we can take legal action against that, we have a very limited frame of opportunity to do that, maybe just a week. So we really need to know whether this is going to be interfered with by you all or whether we really have to consider the legal implications. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: It is already the first order of business for Tuesday's work session agenda with Martin. MS. WACHSBERGER: Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I mean, I don't want to discuss a lot of the specifics, I understand these are the concerns but I don't want to discuss a lot of these specific issues. I was hoping to talk more about the comprehensive plan tonight. But I understand that they are all related. But that particular issue, it is the first item of discussion for Tuesday's agenda. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: In the past two years, since I have been on Town Board, we have never discussed extending the water main. In the last two years since I have been here, we never approved it, we never authorized it. We didn't even talk about it. In the past two years since I have been here. COUNCILMAN KRUPSKI: Our relationship with the Suffolk County Water Authority can best be described as adversarial, okay? so this isn't like, in fact we met with them a month ago or six weeks ago and they weren't too happy, were they? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No. Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 23 October 15, 2009 COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: In the last two years, I think we extended the water mains twice, in two small spots, maybe 100 feet here and there. We never talked about Orient. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I will give you a specific example; it is like dealing with LIPA only less friendly. They had given a water availability letter to a substantial subdivision in Cutchogue, although the Town Board specific (inaudible) does not include that parcel as getting public water. The Water Authority issued a letter of water availability to the developer some years ago. That's the adversarial situation we have with them. They are an authority, they are run by I believe Suffolk county government, sort of in an ad hoc fashion, with state authority. It is adversarial. But I think like I said, the first item for Tuesday is, we think we found an opportunity to insert ourselves in this process. Previous to that, we were under the legal impression that we did not that tight. We think we found one. It is going to be the first item for discussion Tuesday. UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Tuesday's work session. UNIDENTIFIED: In the morning? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yeah. The work session runs usually from 9 to anywhere from 2:00 to 6:00 depending on the agenda. And that would be in anticipation of that nightly meeting. UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Absolutely. BARBARA MCADAM: Barbara McAdam, Cutchogue. For those residents that feel that they need to participate, I would like to encourage all of you to attend the weekly Planning Board meetings. They are here every Monday. I attended pretty faithfully for 3 years, which started out as an interest in a pet project but let me tell you, you find out everything that is going on around town and you learn the nitty gritty of the planning process, you will develop tremendous respect for the people who serve on the Planning Board. So if you are interested and you really feel that you don't want to be shut out, I would encourage you, that is the place to begin. And I just want to thank the Planning Board for putting up with me for so many years. Thank you. UNIDENTIFIED: I am taking off my Planning Board hat and just addressing this, the items that you, the list of items that you wanted to put in the comprehensive plan. And one thing that occurred to me and I know is a special interest to the Board is code compliance. Because Southold has a pretty tough code and quite frequently people are actually not happy with the hoops that they have to go through to get a project approved. One of the things, we discussed this to a degree at the heating on a site plan, you know, the larger social issues of potential gathering ground for hiring or for the kinds of foods that are served, those things, we really, I mean, we can discuss them but they don't serve Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 24 a purpose because they can't be part of the site plan process. So this is, you know, a more appropriate venue for that kind of discussion. But one of the things that I wanted to see in here is the development of a strategy for code compliance. Because we quite frequently set up elaborate restrictions on businesses and then 10 years later they have been ignored, you know, inappropriate signage, all sorts of stuff. And it is not a simple thing, code enfomement is very difficult because you have business that are so developed and the neighbor is doing it and how do you enforce it in one instance and not in another and I am not suggesting that we can just put a rigid thing in force but as part of this planning process, I think we ought to develop a code compliance strategy. So that aspects of it, as we are talking about new regulation, we are trying to figure out to bring people into compliance, you know, in a positive way. Because in many instances it is not happening now. and a lot of the concerns that people have about different uses are because of a process that hasn't worked in the past because of problems with parking and not enough turning (inaudible) and things. That is in the code now, we have got signs that you know, don't light up the night sky. We have a sign ordinance. We are very, we have got a lot of very good things in the code that if applied to all the businesses in the town, we would have a very different looking town than we have now. So, when people are concerned about certain uses, keep in mind that we have a lot of tools that we can use to reduce impact of those uses. It is difficult, it has been adjudicated many times, you know, ownership, hours, all those things. Those are all in the law. And for us to radically change those is difficult. You can't zone out somebody because it is a certain kind of ownership. Otherwise we could take out Chase bank or all these other things because we don't like the uh, you know, they pay their executives too much money. The fact is, we can control it through proper site plan and then of course, the larger issue of creating zoning districts that are appropriate and different classifications. But the one thing I wanted to bring up at this point, the reason I am standing up is that I think we need to, as part of this planning process, as part of the proposed chapters, we need to have a section on code compliance in there. Figure out how to do that more successfully than we have. And I know that is a concern of the Board. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yeah. Well, we have been working, I worked very hard with the late Ruth Oliva and others on developing a more consistent code compliance policy. One of the biggest violations in the town isn't necessarily the construction of something without a building permit, it is a use issue. It is the use of something inappropriately. I, to be perfectly candid, we have made changes with the code enforcement department. I think things have gotten better but we have a very, very, very long way to go. There is no doubt about it. And all hands need to be on deck for that. UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yeah. Well, that is what, we set up actually, the previous Board voted on code enforcement policy that outlined four or five pages of compliance issues, trying to encourage compliance and then when you don't get, where you have these repeat, is to set up a meaningful, we actually raised the fines. We went from a $500 to a $10,000 maximum fine on some of these use issues. Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 25 LEROY HEYLIGER: I am Leroy Heyliger, Matfituck. I would like to know, Factory Avenue, what is the plan that the Board has? I have been before the Board before, you know the traffic conditions, the truck conditions we have on Factory Avenue with the delivery trucks going into Waldbaum's on that side and the tracks that park all up and down on the west side hindering pedestrian traffic, especially those who come out of the cottages with the baby carriages, the shopping carts, they have to walk around the trucks and go in the middle of the road. Is there something that can be done with Waldbaum's to have those trucks deliver on another side? There is a big wooded area across the street, they could use that. That could be utilized as a parking area for those trucks and also for the deliveries to the back of their store. I am just wondering if that is a consideration because it is a very hazardous position that we are in. They run up on the church property there, they disregard the church property that is there, they block the street so traffic can't even get through when they make their deliveries with those big 18 wheelers and now the other day there was a 51 footer who came in there and got hung up and they had to get a tow truck to get it out of there. Which even blocked off traffic coming over from Old Sound Road trying to get up Factory Avenue. So I am just wondering if the Board is doing anything, looking into this matter? Because I brought it up before and it is only getting worse and worse. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I have met with you to... MR. HEYLIGER: The cottages now, excuse me... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That's okay. MR. HEYLIGER: The people from the cottages, they come across there and the trucks are all lined up and down, isn't there a code that says you can't park up on the curb, it is supposed to be a curb but it's not a curb because they took that out years ago and they blacktopped that side so the trucks just pull right up there and they park and people come, pedestrians come out and they have to walk in the middle of the road. I am afraid that some young child is going to get run over because they come flying across the railroad tracks. The speed limit, I asked to be lowered from 35 to at least 30 and to have more patrols in the area. I haven't seen anything done. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Well, unfortunately the loading dock on Waldbaum's is perpendicular to Factory and they back down that road and then pull in there perpendicular to Factory so that is where they have to unload products and stuff for that store, so unfortunately it's, they have to back into. MR. HEYLIGER: We can change the location of that dropoffpoint? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We, I have met with you, I have met with the group down at your church. There is certainly a real issue there, I can appreciate that. We met with the owner of the shopping center, who has been reaching out and trying with the location of that dumpster, the problems we had there and other things. I actually, we sent a formal request to the state of New York to change the truck route which diverts trucks off to Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 26 Aldrich Lane and actually back down Old Sound and then comes down Factory Avenue. We have asked the state to abandon that and keep the trucks on the Main Road. They, I just got a contact the other day from a gentleman from the state who has a particular issue on that with quality of life but he needs to remember that those tracks are coming through what are predominantly residential areas. Trucks on the Main Road seem like a better option, the problem is once you get on Factory and being able to get them, there is about 8 acres of woods in the back there, we will certainly talk to the owner about developing some loading and unloading in that back of, doing it from the front no matter what road you come from, Main Road or Factory, is going to be a problem. I agree with you 100% but I would say that also illustrates not to sound like I am preaching, the issue of how much can that particular area of Mattituck bear? It is already beating too much. With regards to an application that is pending. HOWARD ME1NKE: Thank you Scott. Howard Meinke, since you are probably coming to end of this meeting, I think it is an opportunity for some optimism here because we have room full of people, we have a lot of opinions. I think if we spend our time looking backwards, we are not going to get anywhere. The point now is to say we are starting a comprehensive plan, we have a couple of million dollars worth of documents in the cellars that outline everything that has to go in it. Some of the conclusions might not be right but there is an immense amount of information there that we will put it in order that has been pre-thought out and we can work from that. So I think there is room for optimism. Somebody mentioned here a vision statement, I would suggest that the items I suggested are half of a vision statement right there. Energy conservation, global climate change, fertile seas, pure water, save agriculture and food production and as a result of this, you automatically keep it proper for tourism, you preserve view sheds and open space and you make it nice for our citizens. So by my lights, you have part of a vision statement right there, now, people can respond by computer, by grabbing a microphone, a letter to the paper, emailing you people. There are quite a number of ways to respond, so if people are interested, the information can get out there. I mean, I am afraid that some of the complaining is done by people who don't take two steps forward to get to the information, they just feel that geez, I should have gotten a special invite in my mailbox to do something and life isn't like that, you are all old enough, you should know it. Now we should make a point of thinking forward in this master plan because we have had all this discussion about a 7-11. Well, you can't really stop things after they are here. You have to have a hell of an imagination and make rulings before it happens, in your master plan. You can always, in a master plan make legislation to relax something that was too tough but you can never make it too tough if it starts too relaxed. So get on these issues, think constructively, imagine all the roads to perdition Southold can take and prevent it in the master plan now. that is what we should be doing. CHRIS TALBOT: Chris Talbot from Cutchogue. One of the chapters I don't see on here is anything in regards to any long term financial planning. You have got about everything else in here but anything to help the town out with long term financially. Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 27 October 15, 2009 SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: That is an excellent point. We actually want to include an economic component. One of the things I think we need to think about it healthy tax bases for the future. Every year we are dealing with school taxes, etc. I think the town historically has said, well, you know we can't control the schools over what they spent but I think that is a cop out, we are the chief land use decision maker in the town and we can as part of the comprehensive master plan, make sure that we are developing healthy tax base. Preservation is part of that. You know, an aggressive, assertive approach with preservation keeps the need for future services down. That is a part of how we can incorporate an economic component and where we are going to be over the next 20 years, where we are going. I think that with tax bill doubling about every 10 or 11 years, the notion of doubling tax bills in the next 10 or 12 years will absolutely sink this community regardless of how strong the comprehensive plan is. MR. TALBOT: So that will be another chapter. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Yes, it will. We are up to about 30 chapters now. MS. LANZA: Well, we have an economic chapter... MR. TALBOT: Economic development but nothing as far as financial... MS. LANZA: Yeah, I think we envisioned that sort of discussion being in that chapter, it is just not, it is just not probably aptly named at this point. MR. TALBOT: One of the things that was mentioned here tonight was the town's code enforcement. Something dear to my heart, nothing, or no better time for the division of code enforcement to be enforcing codes than now, when they are dead. You know, there is not a whole lot going on there in the building department. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I think we have made a lot of progress, we have got a long way to go but I think Joe was right in terms of the focus but that focus is a day to day administrative focus. It doesn't necessarily need to be part of a comprehensive plan, it needs to be part of the institutional way of running Town Hall. So I agree with that. MR. TALBOT: I agree with that as well. One of the things that was brought up tonight which is kind of interesting, not to do with the master plan, but you have one end of town that was begging to get water because there water is horrible and you won't give it to them and you have the east end of town that doesn't want the water and we are going to jam it down their throats. I would say, pull it out of Orient, do the transfer of development rights that was never implemented and do transfer of water rights. Take it from Orient and give it to Aldrich Lane or something. Those guys out there are getting killed the water is so bad. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: We actually authorized the water pipe to Aldrich Lane. I believe we already did that. Martin, didn't we adopt that? That was addressed. But it gives you an idea of the relationship we have with the Water Authority, which is Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 28 nonexistent. But again, I know a lot of people talk about well, are you really going to listen to us, you are really going to take us seriously?. This is, tonight is the first step in the process. I am asking you to have a little bit of faith. Let us get some type of inertia going on this over the next couple of months and then judge us aRer the first few months to see if we are really meaning what we say we are meaning. MR. TALBOT: One last thing, I just don't see what the downside is, what do you believe the downside is for not appointing a planning commission? Instead of the Town Board having to be at every one of the meetings, is this going to be .... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: What would be the purpose of a planning commission when we have a Planning Board? We have a formal Planning Board. We are appointing the Planning Board, what difference does it make if we call it a commission or call it a board? I am not sure I understood that. MR. TALBOT: Inaudible. When we were at the meeting on Tuesday and the Board, I guess, said their position, what it should be is proper site plan review .... SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I don't know that that is the consensus of the entire Planning Board. I happen to know the Planning Board and I know that there are members of that Board that recognize their role as a long term visioning. I have a planning director for that, I have planning staff for that. I can change their name to commission, I would probably have to pay them more money. I don't understand what, we are still appointing people. It .... MR. TALBOT: Well, I don't see any of the members of the Planning Board on here. Are they part of this comprehensive plan team? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: No, this is the initial team. Five of them are going to be part of that, part of that, all five of them are going to be part of that comprehensive plan. This was the initial group that was getting all the legwork done. MR. TALBOT: Alright. That is it. Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Thank you. UNIDENTIFIED: I would just like to say, Chris Talbot is it? The point he made, economic development is very, when I say development, economic plan for the area. Economic plan for the area, I wouldn't say development in the sense we are not trying to, one thing we do want to push is tourism and we want to push agriculture but we don't want to push other kinds of economic development. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Right. Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting October 15, 2009 29 UNIDENTIFIED: But the other thing that he alluded to and you said keep them separate is the financial planning. You really want a town in which the finances are balanced. And you have, you do not have overly optimistic forecast of revenues. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Oh, I agree with that. UNIDENTIFIED: I know you agree with that but that, you have to wind up saying no to certain things but we have to have a something more approximating a balanced budget. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Well, I am not sure the budget is necessarily out of balance. It is in bad shape, there is a difference. But let me point out, we actually just engaged the services of a company to develop multi-year budgeting. I think one of the biggest problems with budgets is the short term thinking, the year to year thinking that takes place in them. The decisions of three or four, the decision to spend $4 million in a building at the landfill five, six years ago affects budgets today. That is why you have to look at budgets more as a continuum, not a finite. UNIDENTIFIED: Yeah. But if I understand correctly, you forecasted certain items in the revenue that were just unrealistic with the way the economic situation is. That is all I am talking about. You don't want to count your chickens before they are hatched. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I agree with you, echoing that last fall. UNIDENTIFIED: Inaudible. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Okay. Would anybody else like to comment? UNIDENTIFIED: Good evening Town Board, good evening, team, good evening fellow north forkers. I have a very short question. And it is twofold. First I would like to know if there were any process by which the business community on the north fork can get involved in this process and can have its voice heard. I think that is important, I think the business community will provide the jobs for our children to be able to live here and we hope that all of our members of the business community are as good of citizens as we people that have chosen to show up here are and second, I am concerned that I see far too few younger people involved in the process. And I wanted to ask the panel if we can also do something in terms of the internet, that probably would be a good step to make information available on the internet but to involve younger people also in this process. COUNCILMAN ORLANDO: Is he calling us old, Scott? SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: I thought me, Vinnie and Albert represented younger people. But I guess I am living in a fantasy world. Let me just tell you, I agree with that, you can say that about any meeting on any location in Southold Town, not enough younger people. I agree with that. With regard to the business community, not only do we plan to include them, we expect to rely on them a great deal just like we do with the hamlet stakeholder initiative, in fact, I emailed all of the chamber groups and a group, a core group of business leaders that I meet with regularly to discuss their issues, we invited Comprehensive Plan Public Meeting 30 October 15, 2009 every single one of them tonight. I can't speak for their not being here but I would certainly hope they engage themselves as this process goes forward. UNIDENTIFIED: Thank you. SUPERVISOR RUSSELL: Would anybody else like to address anything? (No response) Anybody want to say anything? No? Thank you very much. ~Eliz~deth A. Ne vi~ll "e~~ Southold Town Clerk