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HomeMy WebLinkAboutZBA-03/09/1989 HearingAPPEALS BOARD MEMBERS GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, CHAIRMAN CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR. SERGE DOYEN, JR. JOSEPH H. SAWlCKI JAMES DINIZIO, JR. Southold Town Board of Appeals MAIN ROAD ' STATE ROAD 29 P.O. BOX 1179 $OUTHOLD, L.I., N.Y. 11971 TELEPHONE (516) 765-1809 FAX NO. (516) 765-1823 TRANSCRIPT OF HEARING REGULAR MEETING THURSDAY~ MARCH 9t 1989 Appeal No. 3814: Application for RYCK KOKE for a Variance to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III-A, Section 100-32A and Bulk Schedule for approval of swimmingpool with fence e~closure in the side yard area. Zone District: R-40. Location of Property: 245 Kimberly Lane, Southold, NY; Paradise By the Bay Subdivision Lot No. 2; County Tax Map District 1000, Section 70, Block 13, Lot 20.2. Present were: Gerard P. Goehringer, Chairman; Member Serge J. Doyen; Member Charles Grigonis, Jr.; Member Joseph H. Sawicki; Member James Dinizio, Jr.; and Board Assistant Linda Kowalski. Principal Building Inspector Victor Lessard, Building Inspector Curtis Horton, Building Inspector Thomas J. Fisher, and approximately 50 persons were in the audience during the public hearing. The hearing commenced at 8:08 o'clock p.m. CHAIRMAN GERARD P. GOEHRINGER: At the time of the last hearing on this application, we had only three Board Members present. This is the Koke Application, Appeal No. 3814. We are basically reconvening that hearing. That is the situation. There is really no need to re-read the Legal Notice because it was read at the time of the inception of the first hearing. So we'll ask Mr. Bruer if he has anything he would like to add? RUDOLPH H. BRUER, ESQ.: Mr. Chairman and Members of the Board. At this point, and Mr. Tip Henderson will speak in behalf of the Kokes, so counsel to myself in respect to this matter. CHAIRMAN: Surely. How do you do, Sir. Southold Town Board of Appeals -2- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) TIP HENDERSON, ESQ.: Good evening. Mr. Chairman and Members of the Board, as indicated by Mr. Bruer, my name is Tip Henderson. I'm with the Law Firm of Chase, Henderson and Chase at 48 Forest Avenue in Glen Cove, New York. With me tonight besides Mr. Bruer is the applicant, Ryck Koke, her husband A1 Koke, Mr. Norman Reilly, of A. Reilly & Sons Construction -- the gentleman who put the pool in that we are here discussing tonight, and Mr. Roy Haje of En Consultants and Environmentalists. The property as you well know is in the A-Residential and AgriculturalZone, or now the R-40 Zone, as of January 10, 1989, and is approximately 48,600 sq. ft. and is located at 245 Kimberly Road in the Town of Southold, and I believe it's known as Section 70, Block 13, Lot 20.2. We are here seeking variances from this Board as a result of a denial of a Building Permit by the Building Inspector for a pool, which is, an indicated in the denial, three feet from a -- or, not more than three feet from a lot line, and a pool which is not in the rear yard, being in the side yard. We submit to the Board that we will suffer practical difficulties, undue hardship if we are not granted the variances they're seeking tonight. Briefly, a history of this matter. The Town Board of the Town of Southold on July 27, 1987 granted a Wetlands Permit for this particular project. It was a house and a pool along Jockey Creek within 70-- not within 75 feet -- of the bulkhead at the Creek, and the Town granted a permit for the construction of a one-family home and a swimmingpool. On Septe~ber 4, 1987, a Building Permit was issued by the Building Inspector for the Town of Southold, a construction began that Fall with the Town inspecting as construction went on. In April of the following year, April 12, 1988 to be exact, an application was submitted to construct the pool in question. It was submitted to construct a pool in the side yard to be connected to the house, and to be 15 feet from the side yard lot line, all of which would have obviated the necessity of any variances to be granted by this Board. This permit was verbally ok'd by the Building Inspector, Mr. Lessard on April 12, 1988 as indicated by his handwritten note on the application. Shortly thereafter, Mr. Reilly returned to Mr. Lessard -- when I say shortly, I would estimate within a week's time, and requested to be allowed to move the pool further from the house and closer to the side yard lot line. It would have put the pool closer than three feet to the side yard lot line, and it was indicated to Mr. Reilly that this Southold Town Board of Appeals -3- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) TIP HENDERSON, ESQ. (continued): would need a variance and that he could not grant an application on that basis. This was discussed between Mr. Reilly and Mr. Koke, and at that time, Mr. Koke was purchasing the lot next to his together with a Mr. Corranachia, who lives presently two lots away, Mr. Koke living in what is lot 2 in this particular subdivision; Mr. Corranacchia living in Lot 4, and Lot 3 being between. Mr. Koke's and Mr. Corranacchia's intention to purchase Lot 3 together and then to divide that property between them so that they would each getting an additional approximately half-acre to add to their lots. This was indicated to Mr. Lessard and represented in a letter dated April 20, 1988. I believe that should be a part of this record; if it's not, I would like to make a copy or hand up a copy of that to the Board, wherein Mr. Koke represented that he, intending to purchase that lot and that it would obviate again the necessity for any variance, this pool being any closer than three feet to the side lot line. With his representation to Mr. Lessard, he indicated once again that it was okay to build the pool, and construction on the pool proceeded thereafter, the pool being built basically in the last two weeks of April, or the last week of April and the first week of May. The Town was out at this project, according to their records, on May 23, 1988 for an inspection. And a final insl~ction on or about June 7, 1988, when a Certificate of Occupancy was issued for the house but not for the pool, Mr. Lessard indicating that a separate permit and C.O. would have to issue for the pool at that time. The house was granted a C.O. on June 13, 1988. Between the point that the pool was being constructed and Septe~r 27, 1988, the date that the Building Department denied the application for the construction of the pool, Mr. Koke and Mr. Corranacchia's plans to purchase Lot 3 and divide it fell through. And Mr. Corranacchia basically deciding that he did not wish to share that particular lot with Mr. Koke and wanted to purchase the entire lot himself. And Mr. Koke was now left with not having that additional land that he had expected to have, and that he had represented to Mr. Lessard that he would have; and again which would have obviated the necessity for any variance here, assuming the pool were connected to the house and beyond the 15 feet from the lot line. Southold Town Board of Appeals -4- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) TIP HENDERSON, ESQ. (continued): That being the case, the Building Department, as I indicated, issued their denial of the application on September 27th. Thereafter in December, an application was made to this Board for the variances. A hearing was held on January 12, 1989 and three members of the Board, as the Chairman has indicated, were present, and the vote was two-to-one against the particular application. I assume, Mr. Chairman, that the previous hearing, the record from the previous hearing is being made a part of this hearing, is that correct? CHAIRMAN: That's correct. MR. HENDERSON: Ail right, thank you. I would submit to the Board that the variance that we're seeking here is not a substantial one. The pool is in the side yard. I think this Board would agree with the Kokes that that is the best place for this pool to be. It should not be in the rear yard between the house and the creek and the bulkhead. I think there are some environmental concerns there. There would be a variance necessity there anyway because the pool would be within 75 feet of the bulkhead and logically, practically speaking, the best place for that pool is in the side yard, connected to the house and 15 feet again from the side line--there would be no necessity for a variance, and I think that's where this Board would like to have seen done, and that's what we hoped would have been done if we had been able to purchase this property. Because we weren't able to, we're now in this practical-difficulty situation. But basically, the two variances for which the Building Department had sent us to yo~, we believe one, or either of them, maybe obviated very simply. We have a side yard situation. The pool itself is eight feet from the side line. There is a deck, or a walkway if you will, just about even with the ground there, that extends out within three feet of the lot line. If we were to cut that deck back, we could easily make it more than three feet from the lot line, obviating the requirement for a variance of being within three feet of the lot line. We would still, of course, need the variance for the requirement of having an accessory building in the rear yard. We don't have that, it's in the side yard. But we would at least obviate the necessity for that variance. OR, we could connect the pool to the house and then request only a variance of having the pool within 15 feet of the side line, the pool being part of the principal structure. So one way or the other, I think we can obviate the necessity of one of the Southold Town Board of Appeals -5- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) TIP HENDERSON, ESQ. (continued): We would suggest to this Board that the best way to obviate that situation would be to remove the deck or a portion of the deck to get it back beyond the three feet of the side line. Whether this pool is connected to the house or not, I don't think is substantially significant. And we all, I hope we can agree, that the pool should be in that side yard and not in the rear yard. So I would suggest that that would be the more appropriate way to go, and that we are prepared and represent to the Board that we will cut back that deck so that it will be back more than four feet from the side line-- more than three feet, excuse me, from the side line. We submit to you that the pool being where it is does not have a detrimental effect upon the neighborhood as this Board is well aware from their examinations and surveys of this particular property and the properties in the area. We are right next to a tennis court on the adjoining lot, which was put in, I believe in approximately the mid-1970s and I believe a variance was granted by this Board to allow that particular tennis court to go where it is. I think it makes sense to have these recreational facilities, if you will, in one particular area. I think it has less of an impact on the neighborhood. Also, you're very familiar with the fact that the backyards that border the creek do not have any accessory buildings or uses in them. There is nice rolling lawn down to the bulkhead on the creek, and I think that has a very favorable aesthetic affect, and I think requiring accessory uses or buildings in the rear would destroy this. On the other hand, if we are required to move this pool whether to the back yard or closer to the house so that it's connected and at least 15 feet from the side line, we submit that we will suffer a severe economic hardship. Mr. Reilly is here to testify with respect to the fact that moving the pool and putting it closer to the house to meet the Code would cost approximately $59,000. We submit to you that there is no other practical way to avoid the necessity of the variances that we seek here tonight. At least we're not aware of them. If the Board has any ideas, we'd be happy to listen to them and abide by a less impact -- a variance with less impact on this particular piece of property. We feel that the interests of justice would be served by granting the variances with all the history and circumstances Southold Town Board of Appeals -6- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) TIP HENDERSON, ESQ. (continued): surrounding this particular development of property. It's an unfortunate evolution, but it did occur. I don't think it was anybody's fault. That's my personal opinion. But certainly it was not the Kokes' fault. It was not a self-created hardship in my opinion. They did not-- They truly expected to have the additional property that would have avoided any necessity for a variance from this Board. They proceeded with that understanding. I believe the Building Inspector proceeded on that representation made to him. And unfortunately it did not come about. And I don't think the hardship that would be imposed upon the Kokes by having to move this pool is justified in view of those circumstances. I have a letter from the next-door neighbor, Mrs. Corranacchia. Unfortunately she was not in the neighborhood, or in this State, excuse me, and she had to fax it to us. If the Chairman would allow me, I would like to read it into the record and hand it up. CHAIRMAN: Sure. MR. HENDERSON: "...Dear Southold Zoning Board of Appeals. Dated March 5, 1989. Memo from Vivian Corranacchia. I am the sole owner of Lot 3 on the Map entitled, 'Map of Paradise By the Bay' and filed with the Office of the Clerk of the County of Suffolk on Nov~er 4, 1976 as Map 6463. A1 and Ryck Koke are my immediate neighbors. They have a beautiful home and maintain it to the highest standards. I have no objections to the placement of their pool as it stands at this time. It is in the most logical place and only enhances the beauty of this property..." May I hand this up, Mr. Chairman? CHAIRMAN: Surely. (Fax letter from Mrs. Corranacchia handed up for the record.) CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MR. HENDERSON: Thank you. We had hoped also to have an engineer with us this evening to indicate some of the problems that might exist in putting a pool in the rear yard. Unfortunately, he was hospitalized. I would request the opportunity or slight additional time to submit a report of the engineer to the Board prior to its decision. Whatever time the Board might feel it would be reasonable. CHAIRMAN: Two weeks. Southold Town Board of Appeals -7- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) MR. HENDERSON: Ok. With that, I would respectfully request the opportunity to have Mr. Norman Reilly come to the microphone-- the gentleman who put the pool in to indicate the financial circumstances involved in moving that pool and a little bit about the history of the pool going in. Mr. Reilly? NORMAN REILLY, JR.: Good evening, Mr. Chairman. Members of the Board. My name is Norm Reilly, representing A. Reilly & Sons as President at this time. In coming up with an estimate to move Mr. Koke's pool, either five feet or 50 feet, it's very substantial. Things must be done. First of all the present pool, deck, fencing, walkways, landscape, plantings, and everything must be removed from the present pool area. The custom fence out front would probably have to be torn down. There's very little left to be used from the present pool besides the walls themselves to construct a new pool. The deck, wood, around it would have to probably be taken to the disposal area because it couldn't be reused. We'd have to relocate all underground backwash, cesspools for the pool that's in the way of moving it closer to the house. We'd have to relocate a 500-gallon underground propane tank that's also in the way of moving it closer to the house. The underground electric service comes by around the corner where the pool is, now it's about 10 feet from the wire. To move it closer the whole service wire would have to be uprooted and moved closer to the house to be away from the pool area. We'd have to excavate obviously for the new pool location. We'd have to de-water the hole again. The groundwater is about 7 feet below grade. Another company would have to come in to do that. If the pool was moved closer to the house, the wall that would have no virgin ground to sit on would have to be put on pilings, which is an added expense to the owners to support the wall itself. We would have to install the new pool, as their specifications and we would have truck in additional fill to backfill the pool because of the bog condition of the soil that's there. You can't backfill the pool with what's there. So we'd have to truck in additional fill. We'd have to reconstruct approximately 1700 feet of CCA and Cedar deck around the new pool, reconstruct all the fences to the original specifications, re-landscape the grounds, restore the grounds, the air-conditioner from damager from the machinery, so forth and so on, all the brick walkways, the plantings and so forth would have to be restored. And the approximate cost from that would be about $58,980.00. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Southold Town Board of Appeals -8- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) ~IR. HENDERSON: If I might, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Reilly has prepared a proposal indicating those items he has just testified to. I'd like to hand that up if I might. CHAIRMAN: Sure. Thank you. (Handed up original estimate of proposal from A. Reilly & Sons, Inc. dated March 8, 1989 for the record.) MR. HENDERSON: One thing I failed to mention and Mr. Reilly will give testimony to is the fact that of the reason why the pool was being moved in the first place, when Mr. Reilly went back to Mr. Lessard to ask if the pool could be moved away, it was because the pool was cramping the house. There were electrical outlets. There were air-conditioning units, and the electrical cable was coming into the house in that area and it was a very cramped and tight area with the pool equipment there as well. So it was for that particular reason that Mr. Reilly went back on behalf of Mr. Koke and requested if the pool could be moved away from the house somewhawt so it would provide more room and a less cramped feeling. That was really the only reason. There was no great gain here except to have that additional living area. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MR. REILLY: As far as the history goes of the pool, it's just like he said before. The permit was permitted by myself. The pool was to be 15 feet from the line as according to Town Code. We went to stake out the pool. Other variables came into effect which we mentioned-- electric cables, the cesspools, and so forth and so on. We felt--The Koke's felt that it was too close and that they were going to buy the lot next door. I went back to Mr. Lessard and said we wanted to move the pool closer to the side yard line. He said that's impossible because of the Town Code. But if they have the letter of intent and were going to buy the property next door, which was submitted as an Exhibit in your folder, certainly if they were going to join the property, there would be no line there. So it was tentatively verbally approved to go ahead and go ahead to put the pool in, and that's why it is where it is now. It's unfortunate that the deal didn't go through where they got the lot next door, but every intent was made and conveyed to the Town Building Department that that was the case. CHAIRMAN: Thank you very much. Southold Town Board of Appeals -9- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) MR. REILLY: Putting the pool in the back yard -- the water table is about seven feet below ground-- where the pool is now-- as you get closer to the bulkhead, it's probably going to come up a little bit. It was our feeling not to try to put it there, excavating in front of the bulkhead, having the ground water running into the hole as you're excavating would have to be de-watered, pumped out a little more extensive than would be in the side yard; and it could threaten the existence of the bulkhead, undermine the bulkhead--it may let go, not knowing how long it has been there or how it's constructed. And that certainly would be detrimental to the environment. So that's why it wasn't put there, or even thought of being put there, plus the 75 ft. setback from the bulkhead and so forth would need a variance from this Board, even being there. CHAIRMAN: Thank you again. MR. HENDERSON: Next, I would like to introduce Mr. Roy Haje, who will briefly indicate the environmental aspects of putting the pool in the rear yard. Mr. Haje? ROY HAJE: Thank you. My name is Roy Haje. I'm President of EN-Consultants, 1329 North Sea Road in Southampton. I am a previous employee of the N.Y.S.D.E.C. having served with that agency for 11 years as the Tidal and Freshwater Wetlands Permit Agent. I have had my own consulting business for nine years and we are primarily involved in the preparation of applications to undertake projects in or around the water. I was involved in the preparation and submission of applications to the New York State D.E.C. and to the Southold Trustees for the original construction, which took place on this property. In laying out the design of the house and the pool, the proximity to the water was taken into account. It was decided to construct these various improvements. The primary and accessory structures in excess of 75 feet from the edge of the water and bulkhead since this would then place us beyond the jurisdiction of the Trustees and also beyond jurisdiction of the D.E.C. In this case, due to the presence of a bulkhead. We felt that this was desirable since construction closer beyond placing us within their jurisdiction is somewhat environmentall~ less preferable in that there is a greater potential for flooding should there be extremely high tides on a storm or hurricane condition. Some of that water from the swimmingpool has the potential of entering the waterway of that canal off Southold Bay. Therefore, to place it back further we felt was environmentally preferable. That is one of the reasons that it was placed in excess of that which was necessarily required. Southold Town Board of Appeals -10- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) MR. HAJE, continued: Again the D.E.C. would have jurisdiction and would have similarly requested us to construct that in excess of 75 feet had the bulkhead not been present and had the bulkhead not met certain criteria. In this case, it did and they were able to issue their letter of no jurisdiction. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Haje. MR. HENDERSON: The applicant and her husband are here in case the Board has any questions of them regarding the statements that have been made up till this time. With respect to the deliberations and decisions of three members of the Board previously, I would just like to again address the question of practical difficulties and a self-created hardship. I submit to the Board that this was not a self-created hardship. This is not something that Mr. Koke was doing to in any way mislead the Town or to gain an advantage. He didn't gain an advantage. He simply got a little more space between his house and his pool so he could provide for the -- or allow a little more room for his air-conditioning units and his other electrical services. Certainly not a reason to create all of this commotion. And I would submit, however, if any member of the Board does feel it is still a self-created hardship, that that in and of itself does not require a denial of the requested variances. There are circumstances such as these, I believe, which will override even a self-created hardship, and the Courts have upheld that. So I would respectfully submit to anyone does believe that this still is a self-created hardship, that still under these circumstances can be overcome. (Changed to Tape #2) Alternatively, in the decision to locate the pool closer to the house and provide for a 15-foot side yard is not a practical way of dealing with this problem. It is going robe very, very expensive for the Kokes to move that pool, and their going to suffer a substantial financial hardship if they're required to do that. Once again, I feel that in the interests of justice, variances should be granted --as I've indicated, we're happy to cut back that walkway--wood walkway on the far side of the pool along the lot line, so that it will be more than three feet from the side yard lot line, and we would respectfully request a variance to allow the pool to remain in the side yard. I would like to note for the record, and not to be argumentative, however, but I would like to note that the zoning code initially, Section 100-32 Accessory Buildings, I don't know if that's the new number under the new code, by my reading does not require an accessory building to be in the rear yard. That's just my reading of the code. I know that this Southold Town Board of Appeals -11- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) MR. HENDERSON, continued: Board and the Town has enforced or has followed the policy of requiring accessory buildings to be in the rear yard; however, a reading of that language in my mind does not require it. Number One, it says it "may be in the rear yard" and Number Two, it talks about a "required rear yard," not a requirement that the accessory building is required to be there, but the accessory building may be in the "required rear yard." It's subject to interpretation, but I'm only making it for the record. I appreciate the opportunity to do that, and once again, if there are any questions of me, or Mr. Bruer or anybody else that's here with us tonight, we'd be happy to answer them. Thank you very much. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Is there anybody else that would like to speak in favor of this application? (None) Anybody like to speak against the application? (None) For the record, during the deliberation, my "yes" vote on this particular application was conditioned on two things: it's conditioned on cutting back the deck to a minimum of three feet from the property line, and we do have a problem in this Town and it's not necessarily with this application, Mr. Henderson, but just so you're aware. For some reason, the Board has always the position about allowing access to the rear yard of a person's property. More particularly in the fact that we have waterfront property. And we've usually taken that position so that there is usually always ingress and egress to the rear yard. And that is somewhat precluded in this particular application because we have the cesspools and the septic tanks over-shadowing the other side yard. In making my determination of a vote on this particular issue, it was also conditioned No. 2 that the remaining area, in between the deck and the existing dwelling, which is a new dwelling, remain open and free so that if the Kokes or any successive owners of this property had to gain access to their rear yard, either for the repair of the bulkhead or for emergency procedures either by the Southold Fire Department or any other organization, that they would be free to do so and that was the reason why I dealt with it on that particular basis. And now I'll ask my collegues if they have any particular questions of you or the Kokes. Anybody? I'm sorry; I'm not putting you on the spot. Go ahead. Jim. MEMBER DINIZIO: I'm a little hazy as to how -- what type of agreement you had with your neighbor as far as buying that land. I mean, she didn't seem to mention it in her fax or anything like that. Was there anything written, or was it just an agreement between the neighbor and yourself? Southold Town Board of Appeals -12- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) MR. HENDERSON: At the time the letter was written, there was no written agreement between Mr. Corranacchia and Mr. Koke. At that time there was nothing written. However, the property was in contract to be purchased by Mr. Corranacchia, and ( ) represented to Mr. Koke that he could come on in the contract with him and purchase that property with him, and take half of it. And the reason that it didn't go through basically --well, I don't know if I can address that -- but one of the items that was in question was the right-of-way that goes from Kimberly Lane or Road back to the Creek. There is a required right-of-way. Is that 20 feet-- MR. BRUER: Ten. MR. HENDERSON: A 10-ft. right-of-way. And part of the problem was initially Mr. Corranacchia and Mr. Koke were going to run this 10-ft. right-of-way down the middle of Lot #3 between their properties because Mr. Corranacchia had a right to move it if he wished. He decided he didn't want it there. He wanted both lots, and was going to put that right-of-way between Mr. Koke's lot on Lot #2 and Lot #3. And he did not want it closer to him and that was one of the main reasons why they never finalized their particular deal. But there was a very clear understanding between Mr. Koke and Mr. Corranacchia that Mr. Koke was going to be purchasing that property with him from Mr. Mohring. I expected Mr. Mohring to be here tonight to validate that. Unfortunately, he is not. But that right-of-way, as you've indicated-- I don't know if that is of any assistance, Mr. Chairman, that 10 ft. right-of-way as far as access back to the Creek, but there is that 10 ft. right-of-way that exists between the two lots, but we would be happy to accommodate anything this Board might require to allow that type of access. CHAIP/~AN: Is that right-of-way going to exist inbetween the Corranacchia tennis court and the Koke lot? MR. HENDERSON: Yes. CHAIRMAN: It is. MR. HENDERSON: In fact I have a picture-- I know many pictures had been handed up, and I do have the picture of that area that has been left open. Which I would be happy to hand up if you don't have one of those. SECRETARY: We should have it. Southold Town Board of Appeals -13- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) CHAIRMAN: Will that 10 ft. right-of-way be solely on the Corranacchia lot or will it be-- MRS. KOKE: Yes. HR. HENDERSON: Yes, solely-- CHAIRMAN: On the Corranacchia lot. Ok. MR. HENDERSON: That picture you're looking at. The fence around on the pool is on your right, and the tennis court is on your left. CHAIRMAN: Ok. MR. HENDERSON: Mr. Bruer just indicated it's a buffer between the two lots in the sense that aiding or adding to the distance between the pool and the lot line. CHAIRMAN: That right-of-way is for all the property owners on the other side of the street to be able to get to the beach, is that correct? MR. HENDERSON: That's correct. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Does that answer your question, Jim? MEMBER DINIZIO: Somewhat. I understand. I understand, you know, what I was really looking for was perhaps a contract of some sort. MR. HENDERSON: If I had a written contract, I would have had it here for you to see. MEMBER DINIZIO: You know, as I saw the hardship the last time was that it was a pool and all they would have to do is attach it to that house and no one would be here tonight, so I saw the hardship; and it's still -- I still see it as being more or less self-created. Understanding the circumstances that that-- I don't see it as being all that big of a deal, and certainly I don't know about chopping off the deck. I don't really see that that's going to help it or not. My whole problem with making a decision on this is that if I make a decision on this, then somebody else comes up to me and says, up to this Board, that has the same thing with the pool already built, em I going to have to say yes to that person again. Or even if they don't have it built, are they going to be allowed to have that. That was my way of thinking the last time. ( ) I'm thinking of the same thing now-- Southold Town Board of Appeals -14- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) MR. HENDERSON: Well, certainly as you're all well aware, every application stands and falls on its own two feet on the particular circumstances there involved. I think you can understand that the Kokes knew that they would run into this t!rpe of situation, they would have been just as happy to leave the pool closer to the house and had their 15 ft. and never had gotten involved in this mess; but unfortunately, in the real world, people do get involved in situations that sometimes turn out messy. And we try to put them back together again and in this situation we need the assistance of the Board. I indicated we'd cut back the deck. We'll connect the pool to the house, too. You know. That leaves us -- We connect the pool to the house, take the deck off that side, which gives us eight feet between the pool and the side line, and we need a 7-ft. side yard variance in that situation. But there's no way to get around not requiring some sort of variance from the Board. MEMBER DINIZIO: As it stands right now. MR. HENDERSON: As it stands. MEMBER DINIZIO: But if it had been submitted as the pool was submitted on the plans-- MR. HENDERSON: If it had been done as originally planned, it would not have needed the variance. And the only reason we wanted to move it was because everything was so cramped in that area, with the air-conditioning units, and the power cables coming in, and the pool--electric units there. It was just very, very cramped and tight. And we thought we were going to get that additional property, which obviated the necessity for the sideyard setback there, or the variance. M~AMBERDINIZIO: Sure I understand. So I'll just ask you one more question. When you applied for the wetlands permit, was the plan that you have up here the same plan that you submitted to them? Did the pool exist? MRS. KOKE: Yes, it was on the original plan. MEMBER DINIZIO: In other words, it was that close to the-- it was four feet? MRS. KOKE: No, it was 15 feet. MEMBER DINIZIO: It was 15 feet. So the house was there and the pool was there? MRS. KOKE: Yes. Southold Town Board of Appeals -15- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) MR. HENDERSON: Yes. They got the plans as originally submitted which took the pool back more than 75 feet from the bulkhead. So that made-- for the Town Board that was a much better situation. I think everyone should agree that it's much better in the side yard than back in the back yard closer to the Creek and the bulkhead. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Henderson, is there any possibility that we could get a written statement from Mrs. Corranacchia? Possibly it might help a couple of the Board Members understand that there actually was some sort of type of an agreement between the two parties that they were going to purchase this property. Certainly, Mrs. Corranacchia has given us a letter indicating she has no specific problems with it. But it would help us. MR. HENDERSON: Well, certainly, you know I can't speak for her, but we will do everything in our power. I will represent to you that I believe that we can provide that to you. CHAIRM;%N: There appears to be a communications between the two parties, and they are going to be neighbors, so we're not really asking for anything other than that. MR. HENDERSON: I'd be happy to do, and I'm sure the Kokes would be happy to do anything within their power to get that and get it to you as soon as possible. CHAIRMAN: Ail right. So what we'll do is recess this hearing with no further written evidence other than what you're going to submit to us, which is I believe an engineering report and possibly a letter to the next regularly scheduled meeting (April 13, 1989), so that will extend your time exactly two more weeks for the engineer's report. SECRETARY: No written or oral? CHAIRM3%N: No oral testimony. We will allow just written testimony. And we'll close the hearing as a matter of formality at the next regularly scheduled meeting and have all that information at that particular time. We will then make a decision thereafter, if that's all right with everybody. MR. HENDERSON: That's fine. Southold Town Board of Appeals -16- March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting (Hearing continued: Appl. No. 3814 - Ryck Koke) CHAIRMAN: Ok. And we personally would like to thank everyone for coming in tonight and bringing the consultants and the contractor. It's very nice that we now have most of the data that we need. MR. HENDERSON: Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I'll offer that as a motion. The motion was seconded by Member Grigonis, and duly carried. The verbatim portion of the hearing was concluded at 8:50 o'clock p.m. Respectfully submitted, ~IJinda F. Kowalski, Secretary Southold Town Board of Appeals Southold Town Board of Appeals MAIN ROAD- r::TATE ROAD 25 5DUTHOLD, L.I., N.Y. 119'71 TELEPHONE (516) 765-1809 APPEALS BOARD MEMBERS GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, CHAIRMAN CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR. SERGE DOYEN, JR. JOSEPH H. SAWICK[ JAMES DINIZIO, JR. TRANSCRIPT OF PUBLIC HEARING SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS MARCH 9, 1989 REGULAR MEETING Appl. NO. 3785SE - Matter of RAYMOND NINE and CHARLES ZAHRA. Special Exception to the Zoning Ordinance, Article III, Section 100-30B(16) for permission to establish "Bed and Breakfast Use," "an owner-occupied building, other than a hotel, where lodging and breakfast is provided for not more than six casual, transient roomers, and renting of not more than three rooms. Location of Property: North Side of New Suffolk Avenue, Mattituck, NY; County Tax Map District 1000, Section 114, Block 11, Lot 20. Present were: Chairman Gerard P. Goehringer; Member Serge J. Doyen; Member Charles Grigonis, Jr., Member Joseph H. Sawicki, and Member James Dinizio, Jr. Also present were: Board Assistant Linda Kowalski, and approximately 65 persons in the audience. 9:02 p.m. The Chairman opened (reconvened) the public hearing. (For the record, it is noted that the previous hearing on this application was held on October 26, 1988.) CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: The next Special Exception is basically what we are granting a rehearing on, and so therefore there is no necessity to continue with the Legal Notice, so I will discontinue (reading) with that; and I'll ask any representative of Mr. Zahra and Mr. Nine, or counsel, if they would like to say anything. Mr. Bressler. ERIC J. BRESSLER, ESQ.: Yes, Wickham, Wickham and Bressler, Eric J. Bressler. thank you, representing the applicants. P.C., Main Road, Mattituck, New York. We are here tonight, as you indicated, Mr. Chairman, on a rehearing on the application for a Special Exception for what's known as a Bed and Breakfast. Tonight I have here with me Charles Zahra, Raymond Nine, and Pamela Nine, the three persons who represent all of the interested people in the property and the Bed and Breakfast. Page 2 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINE & ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting MR. BRESSLER (continued): The status of these three individuals is as follows: The property upon which the Bed and Breakfast is sought to be located is currently owned by Raymond Nine and Charles Zahra. Pamela Nine is the daughter of the aforementioned Raymond Nine, and her relationship to the property is as follows. The Board has before it on this application, I believe, a copy of the Agreement for the Operation of a Bed and Breakfast. A careful review of this agreement reveals it serves two functions: (a) it functions as a Contract of Sale with respect to one-half of the interest of Raymond Nine, and I believe I directed the Board's attention to that particular provision of the Contract in response to the Board's latest correspondence which expressed a concern that there was no Contract of Sale. I believe that this misunderstanding may have arisen from the fact that the Contract of Sale is contained as a part of the Agreement to operate the Bed and Breakfast, and did not take the form of a Standard NYDTU Form of Contract of Sale for the property. Nevertheless, a review of that Contract does indicate that there is an agreement by the parties to convey one-half of the interest of Raymond Nine to Pamela Nine, contingent, of course, on the Board's action on the application tonight. The second portion of that agreement, of course as indicated by the title, relates to the operation of the Bed and Breakfast in accordance with the Southold Town Code, both -- in the Zoning Code, beth before and after the amendment since in this particular zone there is not a difference between the former Code and the present Code. Now, pursuant to that portion of the agreement, Pamela Nine again contingent, of course, upon your approval, Pamela Nine is to come into title and she is to move in, occupy and operate the Bed and Breakfast in accordance with the provisions of the Town Zoning Ordinance. The proposed deed has been submitted to the Board, and I will represent to the Board that the applicant, Raymond Nine, is prepared to execute and deliver that instrument of conveyance, if and when the application is approved, thereby putting Pamela Nine into title, thus Ray Nine, Charles Zahra, and Pam Nine are or will be the owners, and Pam Nine, the operator, will be the occupant of the proposed Bed and Breakfast, thereby satisfying the dictates of the Zoning Ordinance. Page 3 - Hearing Transcript Matter of NINE & ZAHRA - Appl. No. March 9, 1989 ZBA Regular Meeting 3785 MR. BRESSLER (continued): Now, I take it that the Board has been out to the subject premises and has examined the location. I'm prepared at this time in addition to supplement the Board's personal examination of the premises to submit three photographs which show the condition of the premises and the changes that have occurred thereto since the original hearing on this matter. I have here three photographs, which I'll label on the back at this time "A," "B" and "C", which depict three views of the subject premises. (A) The Board will recognize represents the extensive parking area to the rear of the premises, which I gather from an examination of the transcript in the initial hearing in this matter did not present a problem to the Board. (B) Indicates the view from the street looking toward the rear of the premises. And (C) also represents a view from the Street which includes a greater portion of the premises. (Three photographs submitted for the record.) CHAIRMAN: Thank you. MR. BRESSLER: The Board will note that these photographs exhibit that since the date of the last hearing, one of the issues which was raised at that time would appear to have been resolved; and I refer specifically to the presence of a stockade fence along the property driveway -- the property line -- on that side of the property, between the neighbor Mr. DeReeder and the subject premises. A review of the minutes indicated that Mr. DeReeder expressed a concern with respect to the use of that driveway and his privacy. I believe that the substantial stockade fence there has served a multiple purpose. It has preserved privacy. It has added a decided measure of safety, which Mr. DeReeder also expressed a concern about, and at the same time it also eliminated the overlapping use of the driveways on the property, thereby effectively separating and segregating this property from the neighbor's property; and I think that that quite properly addresses that concern. Of course, as you will hear, this Bed and Breakfast will be operated in accordance with the provisions of the Zoning Ordinance, that is the renting of not more than three rooms for more than six transients and adequate off-street parking, I think the Board has examined and has illustrated in the photographs; and of course it will be owner occupied. I think by way of just one more note of brief background before I ask the participants here to speak briefly to the Board, I think that this application highlights a rather unique problem that our community is facing. The Board I am sure will have taken note of the familial relationship here between Raymond Nine and Pam Nine. Pam Nine is 21 years old. Pam Nine has been living at home. Pam Nine needs Page 4 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of NINE & ZAHRA - Appl. No. March 9, 1989 ZBA Regular Meeting 3785 MR. BRESSLER (continued): a place to live on her own. I'm sure as everybody is aware, on the Board and in this room, this presents a very great problem for the young people of Southold Town. And I think that this particular application affords her an opportunity to move out of the home to establish a home on her own in an economically viable means which would otherwise not be available to her. I think that this type of activity ought to be encouraged. I think that it is a proper incident of the growth of this town, and I think that you'd be doing everyone a grave disservice to turn down this particular application. The property location is ideally suited for a Bed and Breakfast. It is within walking distance of the central area of the Hamlet of Mattituck, and I think it presents a unique opportunity to utility the provisions that have been placed in the Zoning Ordinance. At this time, I would like Pam Nine to step up to the mike over there. MR. BRESSLER: Ok, would you tell the Board your name, address and your age, please? PAMELA NINE: Pam Nine and I'm 21 and I live at 855 New Suffolk Avenue. MR. BRESSLER: With whom to you live with? MISS NINE: My parents. MR. BRESSLER: And do you feel now that it's time to move out and look around for someplace to live? MISS NINE: Definitely. I've looked around, but I can't afford anyplace around here. It's very expensive. MR. BRESSLER: And have you currently entered into an agreement with Ray and Charlie with respect to the property next door? MISS NINE: Yes, I have. MR. BRESSLER: And I've correctly described that agreement to the Board? MISS NINE: Yes. MR. BRESSLER: And if the Board were to grant this Special Exception and permit this Bed and Breakfast, what would you to at that point? MISS NINE: I would live there and run it. MR. BRESSLER: You would run the Bed and Breakfast? MISS NINE: Yes. Page 5 - Hearing Transcript Matter of NINE & ZAHRA - Appl. No. March 9, 1989 ZBA Regular Meeting 3785 MR. BRESSLER: Do you have experience with cleaning and cooking? MISS NINE: Definitely yes. I cook a lot. I like to cook. And I could definitely run a household well. MR. BRESSLER: Are you currently employed? MISS NINE: Yes I am. I work at Nine and Jessup Stationery as a sales clerk. MR. BRESSLER: And would you continue to keep that job? MISS NINE: Yes, I could do both of them. MR. BRESSLER: Now if the Board were to grant this application, you would of course move in an occupy it as your principal residence, would you not? MISS NINE: Yes. MR. BRESSLER: What would your timing be, can you tell the Board what your thoughts were on this matter? MISS NINE: Well, we were going to start around June 1st, but because of all the delays, we're not too sure now when we could move in because we have a lot of work to do to it. MR. BRESSLER: Thank you. Wait a minute, before you sit down, do any members of the'Board have any questions from Miss Nine? CHAIP/~AN: Well, I was going to let you run it and just come back, but if -- Pam, at this particular point we would normally swear you in, ok and we would have sworn in Mr. Bressler and we would have sworn in your father, and we would have sworn in Mr. Zahra and so on and so forth. But I don't think there's a necessity for this. I think there's a clear intent here that you are a contract vendee of this particular piece of property, is that not correct? MR. BRESSLER: That as a matter of law, I believe that to be correct, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN: The only particular problem that I have with it is that there is really no disclosure on consideration. It may be the consideration at this point is a gratuitous consideration, I have no idea. Ok? Am I correct in understanding that? Page 6 - Hearing Transcript Matter of NINE & ZAHRA - Appl. No. March 9, 1989 ZBA Regular Meeting 3785 MR. BRESSLER: At this particular point, we take the position (a) that since the agreement is in writing, there is no consideration required to make it binding; and (b) that matter is still somewhat up in the air. Certainly the contract is binding as a writing between the parties and is enforceable. CHAIRMAN: Could we assume for the purposes of this hearing that the consideration is at least a dollar? MR. BRESSLER: I think that's certainly a fair assumption, and I think that a fair reading of the agreement that is before the Board would certainly reveal that with respect not only to the money that is to come in but to the money that is to come out. Absolutely correct. CHAIRMAN: Ok. And I sincerely, I am only telling you that normally the procedure would be, and we're not putting you through that procedure because I am sure you are sincere in stating what you are going to do. And so for that particular reason, I just wanted to mention so far as I sit here feel that you will definitely own one-quarter of this particular piece of property, both residential one-family dwelling frame construction-- whatever phrase you want to use to describe it, and if there's anything that I may mislead about, I can't see it at this particular point to be perfectly honest with you. MR. BRESSLER: I think, Mr. Chairman, that this is a fairly straight forward application in spite of all that has transpired before this. I think it's a fairly straight application. We have two people in title. You have a contract vendee, whom I believe as a matter of law and has been recognized by this Board, has standing to make the application. I think it's fairly straightforward. I think that Article 6 of the Contract addresses the issue of the consideration flowing in each direction, and I don't think there's any reason why it falls out of the ordinary by any means. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. (RAYMOND NINE AT MICROPHONE AT THIS TIME) MR. BRESSLER: Mr. Nine, you have heard me describe the basis of the transaction to the Board. Has it been described accurately to the Board tonight? MR. NINE: Yes, it has. Everything is exactly as Eric has stated it. And at this time I would like to ask the Board if any of the Board Members have any questions to me as to operating the Bed and Breakfast. CHAIRMAN: The only question I have is, do you have any idea when Dr. Mercier will vacate the premises? Page 7 - Hearing Transcript Matter of NINE & ZAHRA - Appl. No. March 9, 1989 ZBA Regular Meeting 3785 RAYMOND NINE: Well, basically, he is using the property for nothing. His house burned down last August. They were supposed to be rebuilding it right away, and Charlie and I told them that they can move it in the area and live there until their residence was ready for them to go back across the street. And so far the project has been delayed, so we haven't pushed because we haven't had the permission either. We've been delayed in getting our approval so I would say this, we were certainly hoping to get open by the first of June, and with the delays now, it's probably not going to be June but we'll certainly will do it as soon as possible. And it wouldn't be any problem for the Merciers. They said that if anything happened, that we needed the house, that they would vacate the house. So I don't see where that would be a problem. Once we get our approval, we should be able to get in there and go to work. CHAIRMAN: Ray, the last time I know there was a question on the fence. The only other question I have is, for some reason, some time it takes -- you have to put yourself back into the prior hearing, ok, and that's what I want to do, but I thought you said you would elongate the asphalt in the rear of the dwelling so as to permit five parking spaces. MR. NINE: I said, that if need be, yes. You said you had inspected it, and that there was adequate space at the time because I had mentioned at the first hearing, that we actually have more off-street parking than any of the other Bed-and-Breakfast's that I visited. We have, I would say there's probably room on the blacktop to park ten cars, and we would only be allowed to rent out three rooms. So I really feel that we do have adequate parking. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. I have no other questions. MR. BRESSLER: And Ray, if this is approved by the Board, I take it you will go through with the Contract and convey the interest to your daughter and see that she moves in there and fulfills her part of the bargain, and occupies that as her principal residence? MR. NINE: Exactly. Right. We intend to do it. We're not trying to as we were accused of in the first hearing by Mr. DeReeder. He said that we were trying to get the Bed and Breakfast to increase the value of the house. Well, right'now, the house has been on the market for $225,000. And if we get the Bed and Breakfast approved, and he would like to buy it before we get a change to operate it, I'll still sell it to him for $225. So I'm not doing this to increase the value. My daughter is interested in running it and we certainly would like to give it a shot, and we intend to follow through and run it. CHAIRF~tN: Thank you. MR. BRESSLER: Unless the Board has any further questions, I have nothing further at this time. MEMBER DINIZIO: I have a question. I was reading the Contract, and Page 8 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of RAYMOND NINE and CHARLES ZAHRA ZBA Regular Meeting of March 9, 1989 MEMBER DINIZIO, continued: the last -- I believe it's the last paragraph, kind of -- it stated that if Pam didn't run the Bed and Breakfast any more, ok, that she would have to sell hers back to Ray and Charlie. MR. BRESSLER: Absolutely. MEMBER DINIZIO: What would then happen as far as - I need to be clear on this -- as far as the Bed and Breakfast would be concerned? MR. BRESSLER: As far as the Special Exception goes, as the Board is well aware, the Condition is in the Zoning Ordinance is that there be owner-occupation. It is my understanding of the law that should one of those conditions cease, that the Board's approval for a Special Exception would necessarily cease. Since one of the Conditions of the existence and continuance of the Special Exception would no longer be in effect. MEMBER DINIZIO: Is it also your understanding then that you could not sell that quarter to somebody else and operate a Bed and Breakfast? MR. BRESSLER: Well, now, that's a different question. Now whether or not an ownership interest in a Bed and Breakfast can be sold to a new owner occupancy, I think is a different question. And the answer to that question is cleared "Yes." I think according to existing law, that the granting of a Special Exception is based upon the factors in the ordinance. One of those factors is not the identity of the person operating it. It is the status of the person who owns and occupies the property. It has come to my attention that a Bed and Breakfast that had previously been approved by this Board is currently on the market, and if that Bed and Breakfast is sold to someone, and that person occupies and owns and does not change the conditions under which your Special Exception was granted, I believe as a matter of law that your Special Exception continues. And I think that any attempt on the part of the Town to condition approval to a person, based on personalities rather than status or condition of the property, would clearly be unconstitutional. I don't think there's any doubt about that. So we are willing to satisfy the owner occupant requirement, we have built a safeguard into the agreement that if she does not occupy and run the Bed and Breakfast, she's got to reconvey. At that point the Special Exception would come to a halt unless, of course--I don't know what kind of a cook he is, but unless of course you figure Charlie would actually move in there and own and operate the thing. And I think that's really the point of the Zoning Ordinance, that you want an owner-occupant in there, and you don't want to look at personalities. So the answer to your question is--if they sold this to somebody else, Page 9 - Hearing Transcript Matter of NINE & ZAHRA _ Appl. No. March 9, 1989 ZBA Regular Meeting 3785 MR. BRESSLER, continued: yes. If they didn't change the parking and they didn't change anything else. Absolutely. You have a preexisting house and you sell it to someone else, it's preexisting. So that's the answer to your question. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. We're going to do something a little different at this particular point. We do have opposition on this, and I'm going to ask for the -- and I realize that a great amount of you have come for the last hearing -- it's just that we have been up here a little better than an hour and a half, and we would really like to take approximately two minutes recess before we hear opposition if you don't mind. MR. BRESSLER: Could we bargain for a minute and a half, Mr. Chairman. CHAIRMAN: I'll make that motion. MEMBER SAWICKI: Second. Motion was made by Mr. Goehringer, seconded by Mr. Sawicki, to temporarily recess for approximately two minutes. Vote: Ayes: All. 9:35 p.m. Hearing reconvened. On motion by Mr. Goehringer, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, the meeting reconvened. Vote: Ayes: All. CHAIRMAN: Is there anyone wishing to speak in favor of this application? I notice Mr. Bressler is not in the room. CHARLES ZAHRA: He'll be right back. He went to the men's room. CHAIRMAN: Is there any opposition on this application? Mr. DeReeder? JOHN DeREEDER: Yes. My name is John DeReeder. I am an adjacent property owner to the subject premises. The application is before you for - personal affairs have kept me from addressing this application, with all consideration, I feel it warrants. I don't believe this is a simple application as Mr. Bressler has it appear. My family and I have not yet been able to meet with our attorney regarding this new application. I request of this hearing tonight to afford me an opportunity to consult with our attorney, and subsequently prepare my comments to the Board. I further request that my opportunity be heard, avoids the second Thursday of the month, so that our attorney who has advisory obligations with another municipality on that night- he won't be able to attend the hearings should he deem his attendance here to be proven to be necessary. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Thank you. Mr. Bressler, a rebuttal? Page 10 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINE & ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting MR. BRESSLER: In the first instance, and am I correct, since this is a rehearing that the content, that is the minutes and the exhibits of the first hearing are incorporated herein? CHAIRMAN: That's correct. MR. BRESSLER: That's correct, all right. In that event, I certainly oppose the application which has just been set forth before the Board. Given the fact what has transpired at the prior hearing, it is part of the record, and given the fact--at least from my reading of the prior record--that the objections of Mr. DeReeder were aired to say the very least fully in the prior proceeding, given the fact that this matter has been advertised for a substantial period prior to tonight, given the fact that no contact was made with me--I take it with the Board--or with any of my clients with respect to the current request. I think that there is no basis whatsoever for the granting of any further delays here. The Board has heard tonight from the applicants due to the delays which have already occurred with respect to this project without pointing the finger at anyone or attributing them to anybody or any entity, nonetheless my clients' schedule has been set back, and I don't believe on what has been presented to the Board briefly by Mr. DeReeder that there is any reason whatsoever why this hearing should not be closed and a decision be rendered. CHAIRMAN: Before you sit down, Mr. Bressler, the only-- we'll address that issue by the way. We're not going to address it at this time. We'll address it right after the next hearing (tonight), so we are very simply going to do is recess this hearing until after the next hearing and then we'll address the issue. The thing that concerns me basically, and I did not consult with counsel, is the period of time that we have in which this particular application has run. I would hope that we still have an appropriate amount of time to make a decision on this application, and does not prevent the 60-day period; although we are probably just close to that period right now anyway from the inception of the first hearing that we've had. As I am aware and I don't know if the public is aware that an Article 78 was served on the Board, and so that there is the nature of litigation on this particular hearing -- or on this particular hearing. It may just have to be that we might have to recess it until our next regularly scheduled Special Meeting so as to deal with counsel to see what he wants to do concerning this anyway. Or they want to do. I haven't decided which way, which tact to take at this point with the Board, and I'll be discussing it before we start any deliberations. If we do any, we probably won't get to any tonight, but we'll definitely be the last item on the agenda. MR. BRESSLER: After this hearing would be satisfactory. Page 11 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINE & ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN: Yes. Ok. Hearing no further comment on this hearing, I'll make a motion recessing this hearing to the end of the agenda this evening in order -- BOARD'S ASSISTANT L. KOWALSKI: At the end of the last hearing. CHAIRMAN: Yes, after the last hearing, for the purpose of dealing with that particular issue of a recess. And I'll make that a motion, gentlemen. MEMBER GRIGONIS: Second. Vote of the Board: Ayes: Messrs. Goehringer, Grigonis, Doyen, Sawicki and Dinizio. This resolution was unanimously adopted. The hearings following were Browers Woods #3829 at 9:43 p.m. until 11:10 p.m. which were prepared under separate cover. See transcript of Nine and Zahra Bed and Breakfast on page 12 hereof for continuation of hearing at 11:10 o'clock p.m. (Continued on Page 12) Page 12 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINq~ & ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting 11:10 p.m. On motion by Mr. Goehringer, seconded by Mr. Grigonis, to reconvene the hearing in the Matter of RAYMOND NINE, CHARLES ZAHRA AND PAMELA NINE under Appl. No. 3785SE at this time. Vote: Ayes: Ail. CHAIRMAR GOEHRINGER: Mr. DeReeder, the Board would like to know the name of your attorney if you so engaged him or her. JOHN DeREEDER: His name is Joseph R. Attonito, Esq., 227 Middle Country Road, Smithtown, New York. BOARD ASSISTANT L. KOWALSKI: How do you spell Attonito please. MR. DeREEDER: A-t-t-o-n-i-t-o. CHAIRMAN: I'm sorry. We didn't mean to cut you off. What did you say, the Firm name of what? MR. DeREEDER: Scheyer, Jellenik and Attonito. They're at 227 Middle Country Road, Smithtown. Phone 265-8500. CHAIRMAN: Do you plan at the next hearing, assuming when we set this up if we so choose to give you the recess, to present any new information that you might have concerning this hearing, or do you intend to-- I don't like to use this word -- e~ellish what you've said before, but restate what you said before? MR. DeREEDER: Mr. Chairman, there were some things that happened since we heard this affair. I think we are all aware of them: Number One, there is a suit filed against this Board. Frankly, it's beyond my understanding as a layman to know just what these changes mean. As well there has been a change in the Master Plan. Despite what Mr. Bressler says, there is a change in this ordinance regarding this property. And I'm -- it's just beyond my understanding of the law as a layman to confidently say that what I've said is sufficient, or whether something needs restating, or something new should be brought to light. CHAIRM3~N: Thank you. Mr. Bressler, can I ask you what the nature of the lawsuit is going to be assuming we close this hearing and render a decision favorably in your behalf? MR. BRESSLER: I discussed this matter with Mr. Berntsson, Mr. Chairman, and I discussed it with Mr. Schondebare as well in fact. It was the subject of a meeting some number of weeks ago. And the discussion essentially went as follows. This was prior to the matter being set down on the rehearing. There is an application pending for a rehearing; there is an Article 78 proceeding commenced obviously to comply with the 30-day time limit. A question was put to me in the event that a rehearing were to be considered by the Board in its discretion and granted, what would be the disposition of the Article 78. At that time Page 13 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINE AND ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting MR. BRESSLER, continued: I indicated to Mr. Schondebare that I picked a good long return date, but in the event that that return date were not satisfactory, that an adjournment would be granted. When this Board decided that a rehearing would be granted, it became apparent since the rehearing date was two days after the initial return date of the Article 78 proceeding, that is, two days ago an adjournment was granted. It was discussed with Mr. Berntsson and agreed to and granted. And that was the bargain. And the lawsuit is pending and, of course, were there to be a favorable decision, of course, the lawsuit would clearly be dismissed; and that was my agreement with the Town Attorney. My request at this point is as follows. I think this hearing has exhausted itself quite frankly. I think we heard from Mr. DeReeder last time. I think we've just heard from Mr. DeReeder that he has no new facts to put before the Board. Mr. DeReeder has instead told the Board that there has been a change in the Master Plan that may very well be, although the Board can look at the Ordinance under the old Code and under the new Code, and compare the line to the Section, and I think that it's apparent that the requirements are the same. That's a matter for the Board to consider. Mr. DeReeder can read; Mr. DeReeder can see in the Section that three rooms are the same. Mr. DeReeder can see that the owner-occupant is the same. He can see that six people are the same and he can see that the parking requirement is the same. If he's unclear about that, that's the job of the Board and that's the job of the Courts. I haven't heard anything new by way of factual testimony that ought to pursuade this Board or any offer of factual testimony that ought to pursuade this Board that there are any more facts that ought to be taken. And what I'm suggesting is that this hearing be closed; that this Board begin to deliberate; and that this Board make a decision. In the event that the Board cannot or does not reach a decision prior to the return date of the Article 78 proceeding, that the Town Attorney promptly contact me to discuss the matter and I'm sure that a suitable resolution will be worked out. And I think that the Board is cognizant that these hearings are for the making of a record and the taking of testimony, and that the legal import of the Code and what's been put forth is a matter for this Board to decide, and I would urge the Board, in light of what Mr. Nine has -- are you getting all this? BOARD ASSISTANT L. KOWALSKI: Yes, I am (adjusting tape). CHAIRMAN: I'm surprised her hand hasn't fallen off. To be honest with you, really. MR. BRESSLER: In light of what Mr. Nine has indicated and the delays that everyone has suffered to date on this project, the hearing be closed, you start your deliberations, and if something is still burning that it needs to be said, that an application be made to the Board for whatever is deemed advisable. It has been through a hearing. It's been published. We heard no reason why there ought to be additional facts. We've heard no reason why nothing else has been presented. I think enough is enough, and that is what I urge the Board to do. Page 14 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3745SE - NINE AND ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting JOHN DeREEDER: Mr. Chairman. Should the Board choose not to grant me a recess tonight, again I don't know what the matter of law is regarding a recess or not, I would like an opportunity to speak on the things I have put together while listening to the other appeals tonight, and I don't think it to be authoritive again because I'm not an attorney. But I think I can, perhaps Mr. Bressler feels that what I may have may not be substantial or new. However, I would prefer as I asked earlier this evening so I may meet personally with my attorney, follow his instructions, and should he so decide either make my own testimony here on my own behalf or have him make it for me. CHAIRMAN: Well, we've done several things in these types of situations. And I'll offer many of them, a couple of them to the Board before we close. One to whom we have given a recess for 15 minutes (time limit) in basically presenting their case, and we could do that. We could recess this hearing to the next regularly scheduled meeting or to the meeting thereafter for basically 15 minutes. Then of course the other side would have the same 15 minutes. We could close the hearing at this particular point or we could listen to you tonight. I dare say that my attention span tonight is much better this late than it has been at other times; I have no reason why -- it has been very interesting tonight and my attention span has been good all the time, but tonight for some particular reason at 11:20 p.m. I'm in pretty good shape. I really don't know how Linda is (jokingly), but that's neither here nor there. I'm in a quandry at this point. So I'll go to my fellow Board Members and ask them what they suggest. MEMBER SAWICKI and BOARD ASSISTANT: Another alternative would be to close the (oral part) of the hearing and recessing for submission of written briefs. CHAIRMAN: Do you have any objection to that, Mr. DeReeder? MR. DeREEDER: I'm sorry. I didn't hear it. CHAIRMAN: Closing the hearing pending your submission in a brief. MR. DeREEDER: Frankly, if that is what is being offered to me-- CHAIRMAN: No, that's not being offered to you. That's just a matter of-- MR. DeREEDER: It's not wholely satisfactory. No. I have some things that should be said, and I would like to have they said either by myself or by my attorney. MEMBER DOYEN: Can he say some of it tonight? CHAIRMAN to BOARD: Because he doesn't know the law, he said. MEMBER DOYEN: But he can still say things. CHAIRMAN: Oh, he can still say it. He's welcome to say whatever Page 15 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINE & ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN, continued: you want tonight, sure. MR. DeREEDER: Is it a matter of law that I cannot have my recess? Is there some compelling reason that this recess cannot be afforded to me? CHAIRMAN: Mr. DeReeder, we have ~- I'll be honest with you. I have never not granted at least one recess to a person who has asked for one. MR. DeREEDER: I mean a recess of this size what could be one meeting seems to be slightly less of a granting than, and I'm not sure which this is, rehearing of an application or submission of an application basically duplicate to the one that had been denied. But please let me know what I can have. CHAIRMAN: I'll offer a resolution to recess it to the next regularly scheduled meeting (April 13, 1989). I really think that it's not out of order to be honest with you. BOARD ASSISTANT L. KOWALSKI: And that would be April 13th? CHAIRMAN: Yes. MR. DeREEDER: Is that the second Thursday of the Month? In which case-- BOARD ASSISTANT: We had the meetings set up back in December. We had to reserve the Meeting Hall ahead of time. We can't just pick any day and expect the Meeting Hall to be available. MR. DeREEDER: My attorney does have other municipal obligations in a Town that has a meeting on the first, second Thursday of each month. BOARD ASSISTANT: That is the day of the next Regular Meeting. CHAIRMAN: I have a resolution that I've made. MEMBER GRIGONIS: Seconded (the motion). VOTE OF THE BOARD: Ayes: Doyen, Goehringer and Grigonis. BOARD ASSISTANT L. KOWALSKI: Are you both voting Ayes to that resolution? MEMBER DINIZIO: No, I'm not voting for that. BOARD ASSISTANT L. KOWALSKI: You don't want to recess it-- MEMBER DINIZIO: Not for that long, no. MEMBER SAWICKI: Not for that long. Page 16 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINE & ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN: That's our next Regular Meeting. MR. DeREEDER: Is there any opportunity two weeks from tonight, or is there no scheduled meeting. CHAIRMAN: There's no meeting. It is a Special Meeting. We have three votes. So that's basically the situation. I don't know what to tell you if your attorney can't make it that night, ok? MR. DeREEDER: I'll have to have him send a partner or something. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Eric? MR. BRESSLER: Mr. Chairman. It seems to me that what we've got here is a delaying situation for delay's sake. This came on for a hearing originally. No request at that time for made for adjournment or a recess to bring in an attorney. MR. DeREEDER: None was needed. MR. BRESSLER: Then this matter came on and it was duly published and advertised. But the lawyer had other obligations. He's got other obligations on the regularly scheduled Board meetings, so he didn't show up. And the application is made for a recess. "Uh, my attorney can't make it. Oh, on the other hand, maybe I'll have one of his partners come down here." But why wasn't his partner here tonight? Now we've got another 30 days. The summer is coming up. There's no reason why in a firm of at least three named partners, one person couldn't be here. When pressed, we find out, well he can't make it but somebody else will be here. I don't normally oppose adjournments, but this is not a first adjournment type of situation. This is the second time it has been on before the Board. It has been advertised twice. When pressed by the Board in response to the cogent that my lawyer can't make it, now all of a sudden he can't on an adjourned date a month, more than a month from now. MR. DeREEDER: Mr. Bressler, I don't want you to miscontrue my words. MR. BRESSLER: Excuse me! You'll have your opportunity. What I am saying is this thing has been pending since October; we've gone through one full hearing. Now we've gone through a rehearing on this matter. Now all of a sudden an attorney is needed. We haven't heard any new facts. We haven't heard any offer of proof. We haven't heard any reason why what is going to be offered couldn't be put on a piece of paper. I just don't see it and because of the timing of this matter, it is extraordinarily important to my clients that this thing be resolved. Like I said, ordinarily I feel the way the Board does about adjournments, but don't come in at the llth hour, after two advertisements, two hearings, and then say, he can't make it but maybe somebody else will a month from now. I don't think that's fair. Page 17 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINE & ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting MR. BRESSLER, continued: If there are additional facts that the Board needs to hear, let's hear them. If there's legal argument that has to be made, we can deal with that some other way. Let's hear it. Let's get it over with. Everybody is awake. If there are any new facts, fine. If it's just argument, I don't think this Board needs to hear an argument as opposed to reading argument. We can all read and write. If there are facts, let's hear them. That's my position. CHAIRMAN: Mr. DeReeder? MR. DeREEDER: Do I have my recess by this Board? (The Chairman and Secretary reminded everyone that the hearing was at this point recessed with the required minimum of three votes, and therefore the additional comments made after the resolution are not necessarily a part of the hearing record.) CHARLES ZAHRA: I would just like to say something. With respect to this hearing tonight, it was my understanding that we granted this hearing more or less out of the goodness of our heart. CHAIRMAN: No. Out of the goodness of our hearts, Charlie. MR. BRESSLER: They did. CHAIRMAN: Charlie, let me just say-- go ahead. Go ahead, you continue. MR. ZAHR : I felt that we had the option or the opportunity to go to Supreme Court rather than come here. CHAIRMAN: You're perfectly correct, and that's the reason why I asked Eric the question about what's happening with the lawsuit. John? So far as I'm concerned, you have it granted. You have three votes of the Board and that's basically the situation. April 13th and we'll give you the time. MR. DeREEDER: I'll have to make arrangements. BOARD ASSISTANT L. KOWALSKI to MEMBER DINIZIO: Did you want to make a motion to recess it for another date? MEMBER DINIZIO: I would like to make a motion, but -- BOARD ASST. L. KOWALSKI: To make it a sooner date? MEMBER DINIZIO: But can we have a meeting sooner? BOARD ASST. L. KOWALSKI: I do know the Meeting Hall is available on March 16, 1989, which is next Thursday. MEMBER DINIZIO: Well, then I make a motion that we have a meeting then. Page 18 - Transcript of Hearing Appl. No. 3785SE - NINE & ZAHRA ZBA March 9, 1989 Regular Meeting BOARD ASST. L. KOWALSKI: Jim has a motion on the floor to recess until March 16th, which is next Thursday, because we have a meeting-hall reservation. CHAIRMAN: We do? BOARD ASST. L. KOWALSKI: Yes. Remember I asked for it earlier on another matter. CHAIRMAN: Basically what we have to do, we can't have two hearings at the same time, so we have to rescind one if this one carries. BOARD ASST. L. KOWALSKI: Yes. He has a motion on the floor. If this one carries, you'll have to rescind your first one, I would guess. MEMBER DINIZIO: Let's hear what we have to hear. He needs a different day, and that's a different day also. Right? CHAIRMAN: I have no objection to that. But since I was the initiater of the other motion, I really don't think I should second it. MEMBER SAWICKI: I'll second the motion. VOTE OF THE BOARD: AYES: All. This resolution was unanimously adopted. CHAIRMAN: I'll make a motion to rescind the resolution for the April 13th meeting. MEMBER GRIGONIS: Second. VOTE OF THE BOARD: AYES: All. This resolution was unanimously adopted. CHAIRMAN: Is that all right with you, Mr. DeReeder? MR. DeREEDER: March 167 CHAIRMAN: Next Thursday. BOARD ASST.: March 16th, 7:30 p.m. MR. BRESSLER: Thank you, gentlemen, for doing that. I think that does two things. Number One, it's going to bring this thing to a conclusion one way or another, and Number Two, I believe that it relieves Mr. DeReeder's disability that he was suffering with respect to dates. And I think that serves both sides, and I thank you for that. BOARD ASST. KOWALSKI: It'll be at 7:30 or a little after that. Respectfully submitted, __ _ Concluded 11:42 p.m. ~da ~.-KoQ~ki, Board Assistant Southold Town Board of Appeals APPEALS BOARD MEMBERS GERARD P. GOEHRINGER, CHAIRMAN CHARLES GRIGONIS, JR. SERGE DOYEN, JR. JOSEPH H. SAWICKI JAMES DINiZIO, JR. Southold Town Board of Appeals MAIN ROAD- STATE Rr'tAE) 25 c:nUTH~LD, L.I., N.Y. TELEPHONE (516) 765-1809 TRANSCRIPT OF PUBLIC HEARING SOUTHOLD TOWN BOARD OF APPEALS MARCH 9, 1989 REGULAR MEETING Appl. NO. 3829 - Matter of BROWERS WOODS ASSOCIATION and BARBARA REITER for a Reversal of a Determination by Building Inspector to Grant Building Permit No. 17508Z dated October 6, 1988 concerning a proposed "steel building for indoor storage of boats" to be located at premises referred to as "MATT-A-MAR," now or formerly owned by Wickham Road Marina, Inc. Zone District: Marine II. (Previous Zone District: B-Light Business.) Application was filed citing the prior Zoning Code, Art. VI, Sections 100-60 and 100-61, and Art. XIV. New Zoning Code citations refer to Sections 100-121 and 100-122, and Article XXVII for the same or similar provisions for this M-II Zone District. Property Location: W/s Wickham Avenue, Mattituck; 1000-114-3-1. Present were: Chairman Gerard P. Goehringer; Member Serge J. Doyen; Member Charles Grigonis, Jr.; Member Joseph H. Sawicki; Member James Dinizio, Jr.; and Board Assistant Linda Kowalski. Principal Building Inspector Victor Lessard, Building Inspector Curtis Horton and Building Inspector Thomas J. Fisher, and approximately 65 persons were in the audience during the public hearing. 9:43 p.m. The Chairman opened the public hearing CHAIRF~tN GERARD P. GOEHRINGER: This is an application of Browers Woods Association and Barbara Reiter. The Chairman read the notice of hearing and appeal application for the record. CHAIRMAN (continued): My copies of the actual survey, which is not necessarily a survey, are basically this, which is what was submitted with the Building Permit, and I won't cite that, but we are talking about Lot No. 1 to be a 9.0-acre parcel, better known as Matt-A-Mar Marina, and the nature of this application again the reversal of a building permit. I will cite at the end of this hearing my particular feeling that I may be addressing Page 2 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN, continued: in future hearings concerning this application. I have not discussed this with the Board in any way, manner or form, and they will be free to do the same. For the purpose of this particular hearing, we ask everyone's courtesy. We realize there is some upsetment, and we ask if there are spokespersons representing groups, as the gentleman I just met out in the Hall, who represents the Browers Woods Association, I would ask you please to speak. I will, if everybody does and we are not restricting anybody from speaking here--will be restricting you to items that are specifically germane to the reversal of this Building Permit. Ok? And that's basically what we have in the file, and I may put a finger up or ask you to stop or whatever the case might be, and I'm doing that only from the point of view that we may be running into subjects that may be the nature of another application, not necessarily germane to this particular issue that's before us tonight. So I just ask your indulgence in that area. We'll go on to Mr. Ross. I think you are representing the Association. DANIEL C. ROSS, ESQ.: Dan Ross of Wickham, Wickham and Bresster in support of the application to reverse the decision of the building department to issue the building permit to Matt-A-Mar. Mr. Chairman, I'm going to be referring to documents, and I'd like to hand you up copies of them, so that you'll have them before you. (Copies handed to the Chairman for the record with cover list of Exhibits.) CHAIR/~3%N: Thank you. MR. ROSS: The application is made on three bases. The first is that no site plan approval was obtained. In addition to that, I think there's a good question of whether this building was actually allowed in the zone at the time the permit was granted. The second basis is that at the time the permit was granted, the building as proposed was too high for that particular district. The third is that it was too close to the wetlands, the permission not have been granted, the applicant should have been sent to the Board of Trustees. There is another point that should be made tonight and that is whether the building, if it is an accessory building, is in the front yard and thus should have required a variance on that basis. Page 3 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. ROSS, continued: There is a history on this particular piece of property, and it's a history of an expanding marina in terms of the percent of the area that's being used and in terms of the uses being made at the marina. We don't want to get into the history as you mentioned, but we would like to get into a short piece of the history, a small piece of the history which deals with the marina's efforts to build a building on the premises, which as we know has presently been built. First there are some general points, and at this point, I'd refer to the documents. The application which is sworn to July 20, 1988, and was approved October 6, 1988, states that the premises are in a B-1 District. It also states that the height of the building is going to be 36 feet. That the dimensions are 125 by 200 feet. The second document is the building permit issued on October 6, 1988. The third document before the Board is a certified copy of the old zoning map indicating that in fact the premises are not in a B-1 District, but in a B District, and we'll get back to that in a moment. The Board has before it pictures of the structure that is being put up on the premises. Four pictures, and they are also true pictures showing the south side of the premises that borders the tidal wetlands of which we will address when we reach that subject. I would just like to bring to the Board's attention Section 100-271 of the Southold Town Code which specifically provides that the Board has the power to hear and decide appeals from and review any order, requirement, decision, or determination made by the Building Inspector. Finally, I would bring to the Board's attention, I just, for the record would note the Board's memo of February 1st, 1989, and the last issue where you're requesting from the Town Attorney certain advice. And the advice basically is whether or not to stay further construction. I think that is clear for the record that request was made, and the Assistant Town Attorney's reply of February 2, 1989, not to read it into the record but it's here for the record, where basically he indicated the stay is not for use or construction of which is the subject of the controversy. I really don't understand why a stay was not put into effect. Based on this memo, I still don't understand why, but it's there for the record, and I think it should be noted as your memo requesting that and you looked into it, which is appreciated. Page 4 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. ROSS, continued: And finally on the more general subject is a memo to the Town Attorney from the Board of Appeals dated March 2, 1989 addressing accessory buildings, and it does state "...in the R-40 Zone and all other zone districts are not to be affected by" and you refer to an interpretation and then go on to say, "...and therefore accessory buildings in all other zone districts are to be located in the required rear yard unless deviated in the future by further interpretation .... " So with respect to this particular building and its placement in the rear yard, I think the Board should address that issue also. Getting to the first basis for the appeal is the issue of whether site-plan approval should have been obtained. I direct the Board's attention to Section 100-60 of the old code which deals with the B-Light Business District, which as noted previously, these premises are in a B-Light. And at Part A it says: Permitted Uses subject to site plan approval by the Planning Board. So even if this was a permitted use under the old code, site plan approval should have been obtained. References made to the new code, Section 100-251A: No building or structure and no parking lot or outdoor use of land except those used as a one- family or two-family dwelling, or for farming purposes and their accessory uses, including home occupations shall be used, constructed, enlarged or moved until a site-plan meeting all applicable requirements of this article has been approved by the Planning Board. I think that it's clear when you look at the old code or the new code that site plan approval was required. I would like to digress a moment to some history regarding the attempt to put a building on these premises and our first stop is at a Z.B.A. Hearing on June 1st, 1978 under Appeal No. 2420 Page 5 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. ROSS, continued: by Matt-A-Mar Marina, Inc. And the Appeal was permission to construct a boat-storage building. And I quote from the transcript: CHAIRMAN: This application is to construct a storage building in the front yard area. (And then he asks the question: You thought you could construct a building? (And) MR. NOYAK replies: That was my impression from speaking with the building inspector. The Chairman then states: Under C-Light Industrial, Item 16, Boat Buildings, Boat Servicing, Boat-Storage Facilities, that is what we are talking about. You're operation is not in a C-Light District. This was denied to the Strong Marina on the other side of Mattituck, it was appealed to the Appellate Division. They upheld us, so we have clear authority. And there are some other trancript, and the Chairman then speaks a little later and says: It's irrelevant because you would not be permitted to store boats in a building, and you may withdraw it if you wish. And the applicant, being represented by Gary Otsen at the time, did in fact withdraw the application for a boat-storage building. Next we find in the files a letter dated August 25, 1980, from Edward Hindermann, the Building & Housing Inspector, to Matt-A-Mar Marina. And he states to Matt-A-Mar Marina, your marina is located in a B-Light Business District, this zoning does not permit the servicing and repair of boats. On down in the letter he states, "The use that you now propose must be Page 6 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. ROSS, continued: located in a C-Light Industrial District, therefore we cannot issue a permit for this structure .... " On January 28th, by correspondence dated January 28th, 1987, Victor Lessard, the Executive Administrator of the Building Department, wrote to Henry Raynor regarding Matt-A-Mar: "...Reviewing the property, I find that at the time the question of constructing a storage building was discussed, Appeal 2419, June 1, 1978, the Chairman ruled then and correctly so that a storage building for the storage is an industrial use and the property is zoned business .... " So what we see here is from 1978 up until 1987, it was basically the Building Department's position and this Board's position that a storage building was not allowed on those premises. We have a memo to the Board dated January 23, 1987 from the Building Department indicating Matt-A-Mar desires to construct a large boat storage facility on their property. Matt-A-Mar, Inc. is presently situated in a B-Light Business Zone, but what they propose is listed in a C-Light Industrial District. Next I refer the Board, to the Board a memo from James Schondebare, Town Attorney, dated July 15, 1988, where Mr. $chondebare states it is the position of this Office that any building to be constructed in all Districts except A-R require site-plan approval regardless if the proposed building is called principal, or accessory, and regardless of the use of the proposed building. Attached to that is the transcript from your hearing of August 18, 1988, your regular meeting, where you would address the issue of site-plan approval for accessory buildings, and I will just refer the Board to your own decision. Finally, we have at my request -- I requested the Planning Board to inform you if Matt-A-Mar obtained site-plan approval, and by memo dated February 17, I989, the Planning Board stated: "It is the Planning Board's determination that a site plan is needed for the 200' by 125' structure at Matt-A-Mar Marina. The site plan on file does not show this proposed structure .... " So it's the Planning Board's opinion that site plan approval should have been obtained. Page 7 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. ROSS, continued: From a review of the Planning Board files, which were quite surprising, we found that in fact, an application for site plan was made. By letter dated January 14, 1987, Henry Raynor sent to the Southold Town Planning Board a long environmental assessment form and $100 filing fee of Dr. Ali Agaraba, Matt-A-Mar Marina for the construction of a storage building. And a review of the Environmental Assessment Form, the last page, which is signed by Mr. Raynor, as agent for Agarabi and Matt-A-Mar Marina. There's a checklist of other approvals required, and it says Village Board "no," and Zoning Board "no," Health Department "no," local agencies "no," there's a few others, but next to the Village Planning Board there's a "yes." So by there own knowledgeable agent, they basically stated prior to the application that they did need site plan approval. I refer the Board to other correspondence and notations from the Planning Board's file which I think, in understanding what happened, it's important to see these, to see that there was an effort made to get site plan approval. In fact there was negotiations in effect going on for some time. Until June 27, 1988 when Mr. Cocks, who is the manager of Matt-A-Mar and signed the Building Permit application, stated to the Planning Board, we would like to withdraw our application with the Planning Board for the boat storage structure that was submitted in 1987: "...At this time, we were studying other options." That was just a few days before the application for the Building Permit was made. Something that's hard to understand, to say the least. I would also direct the Board's attention to a Certificate of Occupancy No. Z12550. It begins, "this certifies that the building, accessory building "B," for another individual, and on the bottom you see "Planning Board approval." So we see it a Planning Board approval for accessory buildings has been required in the past, and in cases in question on that point, here's an application for a Building Permit dated October 29, 1986, and at the top, it's for a storage building and Mattituck Airport. At the top, there's a notation "needs site plan approval." So we see there's a history, there's support in the Code, the old Code, the new Code, and by their own admission Matt-A-Mar basically conceded that site plan approval was required. Why they did not go through with the site plan, why a building permit was issued, is a question that I think the Board has to address and deal with. Page 8 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN: Are you finished, Mr. Ross? MR. ROSS: No, I'm not. I would just note that the bulk and parking schedule of the Old Code for B-Light indicates that the height of the building in a B-Light District is 30 feet. On the application itself, they stated it was going to be 36 feet. So at the time the permit was issued, it was too high for the District. As a last item, I would like to address the wetlands issue. It is our position that the Building Department should have sent Matt-A-Mar to the Trustees for Trustee approval. And I direct the Board's attention first to the map that was found in the Building Department's file indicating the distance between the structure, and as you can see from the map, the line goes to what's been labeled approximate shortline. And they say 75 feet. If you look at the pictures and if you know the area between the building and the shoreline, there's a retaining wall or a bulkhead. I believe when it was put up it was put up as a retaining wall, it's labeled bulkhead on this map. But if this is correct, and it is 75 feet between the structure and the approximate shoreline, I suggest that Trustee approval should have been obtained because the wetlands goes up to the bulkhead, goes up to the retaining wall, and I believe the exhibits before you will bear that out. The first exhibit being a DEC area photo, which is basically their inventory map. I shows in the area in question that the DEC has designated this into tidal marsh. I would refer to the DEC regulations indicating that inter-tidal marsh, and that's regulation 661.4hh2, in an inter-tidal marsh, the predominant vegetation in this zone is low marsh cordgrass, spartina alterniflora. And that's important because in that area between the bulkhead and the shore, by the DEC's records there's cordgrass, so if you look at the Town Wetlands Ordinance, cordgrass is a species used to identify wetlands, and reference is made to the Section 97-13A, which defines tidal wetlands, all lands generally covered or intermittently covered with or which border on tidal waters or lands lying beneath tidal waters. There's additional language there under Item II, it's all banks, bogs, meadows, flats and tidal marsh subject to such tides that upon which grows or may grow some or any of the following: salt hay, black grass, salt worth, sea lavender, tall cordgrass, high bush cattails, marsh-mellow and low marsh cordgrass, and/or under Item III, all land immediately adjacent to the tidal wetland as defined in the previous sections and lying within 75 feet landward of the most Page 9 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. ROSS, continued: landward edge of the tidal wetlands. So by the Town's definition, the wetlands goes 75 feet in-land, landward, and I think by taking the DEC map, the definition, we see that the wetlands goes right up to the retaining wall, or bulkhead. I would also at this time ask Paul Murphy, he lives in the area, and for him just to say a few words about the water in that area. PAUL MURPHY: I'm Paul Murphy, living in Mattituck, near the place in Browers Woods. On numerous occasions, I have noticed water spashing against a retaining wall there, tidal with the creek waters on many occasions ( ). MR. ROSS: So we see, even though that area between the retaining wall and what is labeled the shoreline may not always be covered. It is from time to time in the definition, talks about intermittently being covered and on top of that you have a species of plans indicating that it is wetlands. Now, understand that I didn't go out and measure the distance between the bulkhead and the structure, but the Matt-A-Mar's map indicates that, if the wetland does go to the bulkhead, then the structure is within 75 feet and thus within the Trustee jurisdiction. I know the Board may have some problems with addressing Trustee jurisdiction, but we see that the Board has jurisdiction with respect to Building Inspector decisions, and one of the decisions in granting this permit was basically that a Trustee permit was not necessary. And it was in effect a negative decision, but it was a decision nonetheless that this Board can reverse, and I would ask the Board to address that. There was some question raised, and I don't know if this Board is aware of it-- I believe there's a memo in your file, indicating that Trustee approval is not necessary behind bulkheaded areas. And I would first direct your attention back to the wetlands act of which clearly it says nothing about a bulkhead exception, although we know that the DEC has such an exception. And I would also draw your attention to the application of John Newman with respect to his property on Sailors Needle Road in Mattituck, and the Trustees exercised jurisdiction. This property, and before you is his survey, just Page 10 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. ROSS, continued: completely behind bulkhead and seawall, and the Trustees indicated they had jurisdiction. I don't think there's any question. The Trustees always have, and according to the Code do have jurisdiction 75 feet behind the bulkhead. So I just wanted to address that point. Basically, that's our application. We realize the building is under construction. We believe that in fairness to the applicant his building permit should have been pulled. Although in fairness to the applicant, it's apparent from the documents in the Planning Board and in your file that they were aware of the necessity to get site plan approval. We appreciate the Board addressing the question to the Town Attorney to pull this permit and I'm somewhat concerned with the response that was obtained. And I don't think the fault lies with this Board, and where to put the fault, I think we can only put it on the people who are in charge--the elected officials of the Town. So with that said, I would ask that this Board pull this permit, and make a decision on this items. I think that based on what I put before you, this applicant should have gone to the Trustees, should have gone to the Planning Board and should have had to come here, before getting a building permit. And I request that you issue that decision. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Ross, let me just ask you a question. When you refer to pulling the building permit, you're referring to the nature of the application which is actually the reversal of the building permit and -- MR. ROSS: Correct. CHAIPu~L~/~: And not necessarily the staying the Building Permit but actually the reversal of the Building Permit. MR. ROSS: Correct. It was issued a Building Permit and I've provided the Board with a section provided a building permit would he given only when all other permits that are necessary are obtained. And here all other permits weren't obtained. The building permit simply shouldn't have been issued. It's as simple as that. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Thank you. Would anybody else like to speak in favor of this application? (None). Would the owner or his representative like to speak? Page 11 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting DON COCKS: I'm Don Cocks. I'm the Manager of Matt-A-Mar Marina. I've been associated with Matt-A-Mar now for almost nine years. There as a mechanic for about eight years, and since then have become the manager. When I became the manager, I started to look into the needs of the building. The agent who was working at the time for securing the permits had no information for me. When I went to see him, he gave me a file that was about three or four pages inside of a file. I figured I'd start from scratch and I'd go to each agency, introduce myself, plead my case, plead my ignorance and the whole aspect of the political going on. The way to do things. I went to the Zoning Board. I went to the Planning Board. I went to the Building Department. I went to the Trustees. Each time, once again, I did plead that I was looking for help-- I was very grateful for help. Asking what to do, where to go and each time I was given advice on what to do by the Town Board and town people. This building is a necessity from our stand point to survive. We have to have this building. Most marinas around have storage buildings. We don't have storage buildings. It's-- if we don't get this building, there probably isn't much change for the marina to survive, in which case outside speculators would come in and under the new Master Plan, I don't know what would happen at that time. There are some items that would be brought up so far about-- I'm going a little backwards on it, but there was a problem that the attorney had brought up about the wetlands. So far to date, I've had Phil Obenauer of the Conversation Department (DEC) come down and check out the area. I've had Mr. Kujawski and Chuck Hamilton come down and check out the area. I've had Henry Smith, Trustee come down and check out the area. And I've had a conversation just this week with Mr. Bredemeyer on the property, and each time I was told there's no problems with the wetlands involved in it. The agencies that I have seen to date-- I've started off, as I explained, after I wasn't getting any sufficient answers from the agent who he'd had hired-- I started off by going first to the Zoning Board, Mrs. Kowalski. I had gone to her and asked if I could look into the record and familiarize myself with the background--what had been happening with the marina. I got all the information that there was. From there, I went to the Planning Board. While in between there, I went to the Building Department to ask them again, what I should do, and each time I was advised by the Building Department at the time to get rid of some of the old boats that we had in the yard, clean up the yard, which we did -- we hired a contractor with a bull dozer to come in and clean up the area. We hired a beat mover to take a Page 12 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MA'rr-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. COCKS, continued: bunch of old boats that we had-- got rid of them. So we cleaned up the yard. Then I went to the Planning Board and spoke to Ms. Scopaz. I had approximately three meetings with Ms. Scopaz on the building. I drew at least six drawings for Ms. Scopaz. She had us pretty much all the way around the marina with the building. The last place that she had us with the building was pretty much on the northeast corner with the peak of the building running north and south, parallel with Wickham Avenue. Also had us 75 feet from Wickham Avenue. At the time, it wasn't a great place for us to have a building. It was far away from our travel lift, and all I had done after that, I had contacted Mr. Goehringer at the time. I spoke to you about it. And I recall a conversation we had was, I had told you where the Planning Board wanted to put us. You told us about the 100 feet setback, which I was more than glad to acco~m~odate, but unfortunately where the setback would have happened would have been over wells. We have a problem with water on our property. The only water that is sufficient, we've had many tests done to find good water; and one area where there is water, the building would have been sitting on it. Once again, the Planning Board wanted a new road installed in the marina, and the road would have been on the northern most section of the Marina. The old road would have been closed up and this would have been a new entrance. With the new entrance road coming in, the building also couldn't go back that hundred feet, so Mrs. Scopaz was happy keeping it 75 feet away from Wickham Avenue. The long part of the building, running parallel with Wickham Avenue, and at that time it just wasn't sufficient for us to drive a travel lift all the way up and park. We didn't think it was a good idea for the neighbors. We're trying to live with the neighbors in the area. We didn't think a building that close to the road would be a good spot. At the time when I was speaking to Mr. Goehringer, he came up with, we discussed the fact of the 100-ft. setback. I showed him the original drawings at one time - that we had sketched an area where the building would go - and you said that you couldn't comment on it but it would be a better place than up in the corner. After that I went to the Building Department and told them what the Planning Board wanted me to put in. At the time they weren't too crazy about the spot where the Planning Board had put us also. They were fearful of the fact that the neighbors were going to be very upset with having the building that close to the road. Page 13 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. COCKS, continued: They positioned this in such a spot in such a way that we wouldn't be able to-- our driveway wouldn't be blocked--we would pretty much be not seen directly from the driveway. We would be in-between a tree barrier that we have there. They also suggested we build up a berm and landscape a berm. These are things that we have started to do to date. Also as far as the water goes, I was told at the time that we should go 75 feet from the high water mark, and at the time Mr. Lessard had paid a visit, and we checked out the entire area, pretty much staked it out where it would be, and that's pretty much where it ended up to be. To date so far-- I also want to say that we have never kept this building a secret. We have customers who live in Browers Woods. One is a member of the Association. These people have known about this building. It has been going on for quite a while. We have been doing some of the work on the outside along the sidewalk and so forth for about a year now. We never kept this a secret from anybody. Everybody knew that a building was going up. We started-- pre-building fees on this building so far are $30,000. The construction costs that we have -- we're locked into a contract, a scheduled payment contract. So far to date, we've spent $244,000 on the building. We still have another $192,000 to go, and after that we'll have about $18,000 in additional expenses that would be landscaping, bulkheading area up and along the sidewalk. We agreed with the Building Department. One of their neighbors across the way from us was upset at our gravel road--he kept on getting dust over on his house. We agreed to the fact that we would pave the driveway. These are all items after the building was finished. I've just done everything that I have been told to do. I contacted each agency. They've given me the direction on which way to go, and at this point, I didn't hear about this meeting until it came up in February, when the first opposition came up to this building. We had cement poured by then. Excavation had been done since December, the excavation was done. It was -- and all of a sudden in February there was a great opposition to this building. It's just my feeling that I've been pushed and pulled all over the place by each agency. Ail we're trying to do is survive. We have six full-time local employees, and their dependents who work there. We have about 25 in the summer time, which are all local people that we employ. We're just trying to make a living there and like I said, we've done everything in the open on this. I've just been by the book by this whole thing. Page 14 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MA'~i'-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN: Mr. Cocks, when I saw you last year some time at this time, you asked me to come down and we had a similar--you know, I can't give you word for word because a lot of the information has gone by since then--but you told me that the purpose of a building of the nature of which is now being constructed on the site is to be used for the maintenance of large boats or boats that you would be housing in the building for the purposes of repair, to my knowledge from what I remember. Is that still the case? MR. COCKS: No, to tell you the truth, I really don't--it has been a storage building from the beginning. It was made very well-known to us that this has to be a storage building. We agreed; we have done everything we can to work with the town. CHAIRMAN: What would be the nature of the storage? Would it be dry storage during the winter, and then the boats would be taken out of the building in the spring? MR. COCKS: Exactly. CHAIRMAN: Would the boats be worked on the building itself? MR. COCKS: No. If we get these boats inside the building, we're guaranteed a certain amount of work in the spring time. The building won't be heated or anything. So what we plan on doing is, at least we have knowledge of we're getting a certain amount of work from each boat that is going to be going in that building. In the springtime when we pull them out, due to work, put them back in the water, they leave. ~nis building also will not--there's a lot of people going around saying there's going to be bringing more boats in the area. It's not going to bring in any more boats in the area that have been at the marina. All it's doing is bringing a better class of customer who can pay for the services and keep our mechanics and our carpenters going who are all local people and trying to make a living. CHAIRMAN: So there would be no actual work on the boat in the building? MR. COCKS: No. Just a storage building. Ail it is is a storage building. Mattituck Inlet has storage buildings down there--they were zoned differently from us, but most of their buildings they have are just for storage. Most of the time, like I said, without any kind of heat or anything like that, not much work could be done inside of a building, so this is all storage. It's pulled out in the springtime. Page 15 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN: Are you saying that if you didn't have a building of this nature, that people would be forced to go to other marinas that have a building? MR. COCKS: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN: Is that what you're in effect saying? MR. COCKS: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN: So you're-- MR. COCKS: Guaranteed to get the customers--there's nothing wrong with-- I feel for a customer who, just being able to afford a boat--but we're also trying to make a profit, period. We have never really been able to make any kind of a living there. In fact, Agarabi has spent a lot of money in keeping this going through the years. He's had a lot of people who had been interested in buying the property, but he's convinced that he loves the area; he wants to retire out here and he wants to see this place go. And so I think we're all interested in it. CHAIRMAN: So there will be no expansion of the boats? MR. COCKS: Working of the boats. Inside the building. CHAIRMAN: There will be no expansion of the marina itself-- MR. COCKS: No, no. The same amount of boats will be there as there is every year. CHAIRMAN: Do you concur that the building is approximately 36 feet high at this time? MR. COCKS: Thirty-five feet. CHAIRMAN: Thirty-five. MR. COCKS: These are all things that I -- I went to each agency and this is what I was told by the agency -- I was told by the Building Department to go 35 feet high. I was also told how far to go from the water. Like I said, I have had the three Trustees, the Chairman Mr. Kujawski, and Mr. Smith, come down and physically look at it. I had Mr. Obenauer was sent down by his Lieutenant who lives, I believe in Browers Woods, and he had a little bit-- somebody had pressured him to have the D.E.C. come down and check us out. About a week after he came down, Page 16 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. COCKS, continued: Chuck Hamilton, who is the head of the regulatory, came down along with Mr. Kujawski and checked us out, and I was not issued any kind of summonses. There was no problem whatsoever. Aside from some hay bales. I have to put some hay bales in this one little area. CHAIRMAN: Would you be painting the bottom of the boat within these buildings? MR. COCKS: Most of the bottom painting has to be done before the boat gets in the water, so. CHAIRMAN: Would there be any drains in these buildings, that would drain within the soil? Is the floor flat? I don't mean to cut into your-- MR. COCKS: Yeah, it would be a flat slab. CHAIRMAN: Ok. There's no drain, no draining at all? MR. COCKS: No. CHAIRMAN: What type of utilities would be in the building? MR. COCKS: The only utilities that we actually need is a three-phase electrical system to operate the doors. The doors are going to be very heavy, and you can't mechically lift them up. It would take, according to the people who are selling us the doors, would take probably 20 minutes to open up the door with a chain because of the gearing that would have to be on it. So it is a three-phase motor, five horsepower motor that has to run it. So that's what we need right now. We need a 220, three-phase power going into it. At this time, we have LILCO-- we have discussed with LILCO about bringing in a three-phase line, just for the building. CHAIRMAN: Can you give us some idea on how many boats you store on the site presently? MR. COCKS: We store about 100 boats -- well, we've never gotten up to a 100. About 80 boats, 85 boats that we have. And we have some in the water and we have some up on land. Page 17 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN: I went by tonight and in fact I did stop and take two pictures. I was over there last weekend, but I didn't have a camera with me. I noticed a stake toward the road a little more towards the south of the property line. Is that actually the stake that we're using as a property line marker? I mean I'll go over there with you-- MR. COCKS: Was that on a telephone pole? CHAIRMAN: No. This was one that was a stake actually in the property itself. MR. COCKS: I don't recall. We had a stake out, we had a gas line that was running out so we had marked the gas line. CHAIRMAN: Maybe that's what it was. You do concur that (interrupted). MR. COCKS: Oh, no, electric. CHAIRMAN: Electric? MR. COCKS: Yeah, we have an inground electric that serves our docks. CHAIRl~3%N: Ok. You do concur, however, that that building is approximately 100 feet from your property line? MR. COCKS: Yes, absolutely. CHAIRMAN: And 75 feet from the-- MR. COCKS: Seventy-five feet from the highwater mark. CHAIRMAN: Ail right, at this particular time I'll come back after any rebuttal and just give two ideas that may be something in the future. And I thank you, Sir. Is there anybody else that would like to speak? Mr. Lark? Page 18 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting RICHARD LARK, ESQ.: Richard Lark, Main Road, Cutchogue, for the Dr. Agarabi, the owner of Matt-A-Mar Marina, Inc., which is the fee owner of this Marina. I've just become involved in this matter and from what I've heard here tonight is somewhat of a lawyer's delight with all the legal issues involved, involving the Building Department. The very first issue you'll have to decide before you is the standing issue as to whether or not the people who have brought this application before you are aggrieved parties within Section 267.2 of the Town Law, and whether or not it is proper for a party to resign from bringing the petition, but whether the substitution of an Association the way it was done with letter form on March 1st was proper, especially if you all have your attorney, you've heard of Douglaston Civic Association v. Galvin, which is a Court of Appeals case at 36 N.Y. 2d, page 1, where the Association has to present certain criteria in order to be qualified as an aggrieved party to bring such an application. So that's one of your first issues which will be your standing issue. Probably the main issue here is whether or not the building inspector had authority to issue a building permit without obtaining what the applicant's say a site plan approval. I read your interpretation request concerning Accessory Structures dated August 18, 1988 addressed back to the Town Attorney. I was pretty surprised reading it because it's the first time in zoning history that the Town Attorney has asked the Board of Appeals for an opinion. Usually the Board of Appeals asks the Town Attorney for an opinion. I thought that quite interesting. Your predecessor, Mr. Gillispie, would also have been quite surprised at that. However, besides some of the technical deficiencies and the syntax difficulties in your opinion and memo, I basically endorsed its intent and overall philosophy. I thought it was excellent. And I thought it was an excellent idea. Unfortunately, as a matter of law, the memorandum is just an opinion and I don't believe has any force in the law. The Town Board should have taken your que, or the Town Attorney should have presented to the Town Board and they should have amended the ordinance accordingly to take care of that little bit of loophole. Page 19 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MA'I'I~-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. LARK, continued: The history, this-- I was of the understanding that it is zoned what we called B-Light or 100-60 of the Zoning Ordinance. That seems to have been some issue along the way. CHAIRMAN: At the time of the inception of the permit. MR. LARK: At the time of the application, yes, and what went on back in last year. In looking at the history of that section, it was interesting to note that originally Section A, which was the permitted use section, did not have or call for site plan approval. They did at the time of the application for the building permit. It said: "Permitted Uses, Subject to Site Plan Approval" in accordance with blah-blah, and then they listed all the permitted uses. That had been changed in 1976 by Local Law, and then again in 1983. Right from the inception of 100-60, the B Section, which provides for uses by Special Exception always required Site Plan approval. That was right from the inception of the Zoning Ordinance. Any use that had Special Exception approval also had to have site-plan approval. But when they amended the ordinance, and they also amended the accessory section in 1975 and again in 1976, but the curiosity is when they amended it, they never provided for an Accessory Use to have site plan approval. In accordance with your memo, they should have. And hopefully that loophole has been closed in the new zoning, hopefully. And we won't have that again. But that's always been a loophole, and it always-- I was always surprised that the accessory use provision didn't have it, because he talked about front yard -- Mr. Ross did. With the exception of the A Zone, the accessory uses are not limited in the front yard. They could be in any yard in any of the other districts. And for that reason, I think prompted you when you wrote to the Board when it wrote its memo, to put "Hey, the site plan approval" because of the parking and a lot of the other requirements should be taken. But unfortunately it wasn't legislated. So therefore it isn't a requirement, and the Building Inspector could be very correct in issuing a Building Permit without site plan approval on that issue, if in fact he deemed it, and it is in fact an accessory use. CHAIRMAN: That's the issue. MR. LARK: Yes, I realize that. I just point that out. They attacked it that they shouldn't have done certain things before it but that's the real issue here. I think so. Page 20 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. LARK, continued: Mr. Ross then brought up the wetlands problem in the Trustees jurisdiction. I don't think there's any question that because of the retaining wall, a bulkhead as the case might be, and if you're at a 10 ft. elevation, the D.E.C. doesn't have a linear-- to get a D.E.C. permit it doesn't have a linear foot requirement. The Trustees, as he pointed out in a memo from the Town Attorney to the Trustees said where the property had an existing bulkhead, they didn't have to inspect or take measurements landward. So if the Building Inspector had that information at the time, he could have very well properly -- Mr. Cocks said he had been at the property, he could very well have taken the position that they didn't have to go to the Trustees, our Town Trustees to get any type of permit. Again you have some factual information that will have to be probably developed from the Building Department on that as to what the facts situation was at the time. As to the height of the building, it is true that at the time of the permit application, the height of the building in the B-Light, it is true that at the time of the permit application the height of the building in a B-Light, which is the 100-60 section should be 30 feet. But where you have a building such as this {pause, end of tape} measured from the top of the building. The definition of 100-13 calls for height: "the vertical distance measured from the average elevation of the finished grade," which we don't have. As you said, you visited the site, you notice that the foundation did come out of the ground a couple of feet on both the north and the south walls there. And "of land immediately adjacent to the building to the highest point of the roof or flat or mansard roof, and to the mean height, between the eave and the ridge for the other type of roofs." So in this type of thing, it would be halfway up. Now I can't tell you without a calculation as to what that is. I know Mr. Cocks was referring to you, he was measuring it from the floor of the building to the top, or to the ridge line to get when he said it would be 35 feet. But under the zoning interpretation, that's not the height. It will be somewhere's in-between. And that depends also on how they finish the grade off, so I don't know that that can be determined at the present time, but it is true. In that zoning district at the time, that should be 30 feet without a variance. You know. Under the new zoning that went in, which puts this in the Marine II, it's 35 Page 21 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting feet. So I don't know whether that issue is academic or a real-life issue. So I just wanted to respond just to point out to the Board that I think you're going to have to get some more factual data as to just what went on as to why the Building Department did or did not certain things on this, and I guess your best evidence of that would be getting something from that Department itself. But if there's any other questions, I can answer, as I say, there's a wealth of legal issues in this one. Not to mention the economic issues. I don't think there's any question that the applicant was operating in good faith, and it was only since February when the rumbling started that this might not be such a good idea and, of course, as you indicate and I think the Town Attorney told you correctly, there's cases on it, you cannot issue -- the Board of Appeals has no authority to issue a stop work order stay in the building when that's the subject of the dispute. There are several cases on that. However, prior to that, as he said, he bought the building and you know, has ordered, the foundations were put in, and so I don't think there's any question he was in good faith until this thing came up in February. CHAIRMAN: What's your opinion, Mr. Lark, referring to the possible being a principal use as opposed to an accessory use? MR. LARK: As I understand, it has been deemed an accessory use because the storage, they refer to it as dead-storage, I don't know what that word means, but the storage of the boats in there, in the winter is incidental or accessory to the operation of the marina. It's not part and parcel, where the principal activities of the marina go on, and that would be of course the whatever repairs they do make there, the sales and services of the boats and so on and so forth. So if the building is truly, and I note it in your memo that there could be many abuses by using this as a ruse or a facade. But if the building truly is just used for that, you might not agree with the Building Inspector's interpretation, but it does have--that is a reasonable interpretation of accessory-use-building for this type of thing. I realize the size makes it somewhat a problem. But if it was a Sears and Roebuck storage shed, you know, 9 by 10, nobody would question it. It's a question of degree, I suppose. CHAIRMAN: Well, a marina in general derives a certain amount of income from the storage of boats. Page 22 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. LARK: Yes. Whether outside, inside, or water-- CHAIRMAN: This is now a dual income. Ok. MR. LARK: (Agreed). CHAIRMAN: So we now have basically three incomes. We have the storage of boats in the water. The storage of boats out of the water. And now we have the storage of boats in the building, ok. That's basically the area that will have to be addressed in reference to its possibility as being either principal or accessory. All right? And that's brings me to a big quandry here on what to do with this hearing tonight, and we will recess prior to the closing tonight and discuss it and kick it around a couple of moments up here. And get back to the audience. And of course we now will go, if you have anything else, go into rebuttal. MR. LARK: Unless you have any questions. CHAIRMAN: Let's see what develops. I appreciate it. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Mr. Ross, do you have anything you would like to add? Oh yes, how do you do? Would you kindly just state your name? WARREN BRADY: My name is Warren Brady. I live on Bergen Avenue in Mattituek on the Sound bluffs. I've been there for 44 years, and I wanted to give you the point of view of yachtsman. We seem to neglect it some times. Taken thousands of acres of land and covered with asphalt to park cars, made roads, make every provision for that. It's true that our case here, most of the boating in Mattituck Inlet is pleasure boating. Of course we have some commercial fishermen also, you'll notice the line in the Inlet. But on Mattituck Inlet, Mattituek Inlet Shipyard, devotes all their attention to power boats. They won't even let a sail boat in there. Now I happen to own a sail boat. So if it wasn't for Matt-A-Mar, where would I go along the Sound? Would I go to Port Jefferson? Or would I go out to Plum Gut and back down to Greenport? So you know, we have limited storage facilities now and when you own an expensive boat--I'll tell you today, boats, you know, $100,000 to $500,000 to nothing. So Page 23 - Transcript of Hearing Matter of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. BRADY, continued: when you figure the costs of maintenance, it pays to put a boat inside if you have a lot of varnish work and everything else. It really pays to keep it inside, so that's why people need indoor storage. And I can see, and by the way, I've been sailing here-- I sailed through the Peconic in '39 on my way to Block Island, and I've owned the boat since I've been out here also and sailed all around, and am very familiar with the Bays and Sound. But none of like to see progress here. We'd like to keep it exactly as it is, but it seems as though it's not going to work out that way. We're fighting down-zoning on Bergen Avenue, and everywhere you live, it se~ms you have to keep moving in pristine area. But --and that building, of course, maybe it looks better without it, we don't know how they'll end up with landscaping it, but I understand they have plans for landscape and they do have a fringe of trees--tall oak trees that when the leaves are out, it will certainly hide the building I think to a great degree. And also when that wind blows from the west in the winter time, that building is going to block a lot of the wind, and it does pick up some dust from the gravel area where they store the boats, so that might give them a little relief across the street from dust and the size of that building, blocking it. But also this man has a big investment here now, and I feel that if people wanted to say something, I know that this building has been planned for many years. When they started digging back in December, you know, they should bring it up then before the man had all this money invested. Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Mr. Brady. Mr. Ross? Is there anybody else, by the way that would like to speak? Yes, Sir. FRED RANGANESCI: My name is Fred Ranganesci, President, Browers Woods Associations. A couple of points I would like to make. The point about we knew about this months, or months or months or however long, that is not a fact. The only time we came to a realization of what was happening was when we saw the bulldozer and the piles of sand of dirt along the road. When I saw some work going on relative to landscaping, I felt that it was very nice that they were cleaning up, but that didn't appear to be the case. Pag~ 24 - Transcript of Hearing Mat~er of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar March 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting The iother point I would like to make, I hear that we're talking abo~t a storage of boats. And I hear nunfoers that we're talking abo~t $400,000 just to store boats. When you equate the difference between outside storage to inside storage, how much a foo~ difference does it have to be before we come back and make a $400,000 investment. I mean it's got to be 30, 40, 50 years before that happens. So I personally feel that there would be som~ repair work done in that area, and now we shed a whole new light on it. Thank you for your time. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Sir. Mr. Ross. DAN iROSS, ESQ.: Just a few quick points. First on the standing issue, from Day One, Barbara Reiter, who is here tonight was.an applicant. She owns property on the northern arm off the main Mat~ituck Creek, which looks across to the marina. Is that correct, Barbara? BARBARA REITER: Yes. MR. !ROSS: And so I think the standing issue is not a true issue. To say we're not aggrieved, if the Browers Woods AssOciation is not aggrieved, it is obvious when you drive down the:street past the structure, and people going to the houses, tha~ they are aggrieved and the Association speaking in behalf of ~he residents in that area certainly would have standing. As ~ar as the question of keeping it a secret, passing the point every day, to this day, there is not a building permit posted on the{public street. Correct if I'm wrong anyone, there are many people here who pass. The association learned very late that a building was going up, and I suggest that in fact that it was kep~ a secret. If you consider the fact that a building permit was!not presented to the public. On poi thi! posJ acc( con( and he question of accessory use, I think there are a number of ~ts to make, the first being, I don't think it matters. I ~k that the Board's position was clear. The Town Attorney's tion was clear, and the Code was clear. Whether it is an ~ssory use, site plan approval was still required. This was ~ededbyMatt-A-Mar when they applied for site plan approval, on their long-form environmental assessment stated, "Yes, site plan approval, we have to go to the Planning Board .... " Page 25 - Transcript of Hearing Mat~er of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar Mar~h 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting MR. ROSS, continued: Again we haven't heard the reason why that was withdrawn. And I read the Board the letter of where it was withdrawn, indicating that they were investigating other options. It hasn't been answered. And I suggest that this is not an accessory use. This is for the storage of boats. Or that's minimally what it is for, for the storage of boats, which is what a marina is for.I So I question whether this is an accessory use, and in any event either way, it seems clear site plan approval is required. And finally on the height question, the application itself states what the height of the building is going to be. I thi~k this Board-I think the Building Department and the public have a right to rely on a sworn statement by an applicant. Just a moment on the Association. It is a corporation. It was formed under the law. It has been in existence for quite some time. There was a meeting held, I was caltedby notice mailed to ~he Association Members and attended by quite a few of the Assgciation members, and a vote was taken as to whether to present, whether to endorse and join in this application made by the iindividuals, and as I say, it's an association of people that live close to the marina and a legally existing entity. Thank you. CHAIRMAN: Yes, Mr. Cocks. MR. ~COCKS: The reason for the withdrawal of the building permit-- I take that back, the reason for the withdrawal from the iPlanning Board is that I was told that because it is going to ~e an accessory building, it's not necessary for a site plan and ithat I don't have to go to the Planning Board. As far as the ipermit being posted, I tried copying the original permit tha~ is supposed to be posted. I tried copying it and hanging it UP on the tree. Unfortunately, it's orange, and when you run it ~hrough a copier and we have a pretty big copier, it comes up pretty much black. It didn't last very long. I was told that I could put it-- our office it very clearly states general offices of Matt-A-Mar and it's right in the window, it has been there singe Day One. It has been posted in the window. I was told tha~ as long as it's the general office of the company, that is where you put your permits, and that's where I have them. Page 26 - Transcript of Hearing Mat~er of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar Mar~h 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN: Mr. Cocks, do you have any problems with furnishing us a foundation survey of this particular building, within the nex~ month or so? Do you have any problems with that? I'm sure you'!re probably going to be required to have it any way. MR. ~COCKS: No problems. CHAIRMAN: We would appreciate that if you wouldn't mind. MR. COCKS: Ok. CHAIRMAN: Ail right. Yes, Doctor, how are you? DR. iAGARABI: I'm Dr. Agarabi; I'm owner. In response to your (faCing the audience). CHAIRMAN: Doctor, you have to position everything to the Board. Go ahead. DR. iAGARABI: With response to that $400,000, taxed on American Government, I lose money here but I deduct my taxes. I have my boo~s. Any one of you or the members, they can come and I show them. From 1979 when I bought this marina, I have been losing money up to there. Not a few dollars. From $90,000 a year up to S0,60, 40, 20 thousand dollars. I'm sure, like you see the reccrd, you don't believe this unless you see my income taxes. At this time, the purpose of the spending is not really money making. That is true, you said that how much you can get from inside to outside. The amount of money I put into this marina, doesn't make it sense to make money. Because really I'm not interested in money. It is the marina I like. Some of you have beer there, the amount of money that I spent for grass and water, the amount of money that I used for safety there, cleaning, is more than half of what I make some time. Not only tha~, what I want, I want to live here. I have a house out her~. I had hoped that I moved and I lived there, and I like some place that the people, they come. Do you feel that this pla~e is better to be marina or a night club or a restaurant or so qn? Right now, they're spending $400,000 or $500,000, I could make a beautiful restaurant in there and I'd make money. It's much better to make money for a restaurant than to store boa~s, but I like to store boats. I like the place and I enjoy it.! The people in that neighborhood, the area enjoy that to be Pag~ 27 - Transcript of Hearing Mat~er of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-Mar MarCh 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting DR. AGARABI, continued: theze. Of course as you know, the zoning has changed right now and I can sell it. Anybody who wants to see, I have an offer. Sev~n million dollars. Ok? Everybody, some of you, you think maybe I'll not stay there-- but I'm losing money. Suppose I do geti$7 million. I don't need money. I enjoy my work. I'm a physician. I'm not having this marina to make money. My manager and other people, they work, you talk to these people. The~ do. They work. They do what they want. They-- I'm happy tha~ they may eventually have a wife, they have the children, andisome of them have their kids working there. Essentially we wan~ a place to run and some people they live in there, they mak~ some money. What I enjoy is a nice place--I come out here three months in the summer time. I live in small house next doo~ to that. I enjoy walking there, my kids, my wife, my frignds. They come up here. That's what I enjoy. I come here every weekend. I come here. I don't do anything. They know. I c~me just to enjoy, to be here, so as a resort is not money making business. It's just to have a decent place, a nice place tha~ the people enjoy and that I enjoy myself. The purpose is not:money. CHAIRMAN: Thank you, Doctor. Mr. Cocks, so you'll supply us -- can~you supply us with a plan of the whole marina with that building shown on it with its distance from the bulkhead, its distance from the road, and preferably a set of building plans that are not all cut up and so on and so forth? MR. iCOCKS: I'll try and get it by the first of the month. CHAIRMAN: Ok. That maybe answers my question. At this particular time, we'll take a short recess to discuss the possibility of closing this hearing, and we'll be back in a mat~er of a couple of moments. The!hearing was temporarily recessed at this point. The time was 10:58 o'clock p.m. 11:~7 p.m. Hearing reconvened. Motion was made by Mr. iGoehringer, seconded by Mr. Sawicki, and duly carried, to rec~nvene the hearing at this point in time. CHAIRMAN GOEHRINGER: All right, on the Matt-A-Mar - I apologize, on the application before us to reverse the building peri, it which concerns Matt-A-Mar, the Board would like to extend this hearing to the next regular meeting with no oral testimony, Page 28 - Transcript of ZBA Hearing Mat~er of BROWERS WOODS/MATT-A-MAR Mar~h 9, 1989 Z.B.A. Regular Meeting CHAIRMAN, continued: very simply pending receipt of the maps that we will hopefully get!in a timely fashion from the agent of Matt-A-Mar, and we of course when we receive them, we will ask the party that initiated this to come down to look at them, review them and co~ent them in a written form, if they so choose to. And we wil~ close this hearing, as a formality at the next regularly scheduled meeting pending the receipt of those particular maps. Do ~ou have a problem with that? DAN iROSS, ESQ.: Besides commenting on this, I'd also like to lea~e the comment on the standing issue that was raised. CHAIRMAN: Ok. You want to add something. MR. :ROSS: Just some comments on that. CHAIRMAN: Ok. Can I ask you, is there some sort of charter of lncarporatlon. MR. iROSS: A Certificate. We will provide it. CHAIRMAN: Oh, you will provide it? MR. iROSS: Yes. CHA~RM~.: Thank you. So I'll make that motion, that we're recessing with no oral testimony until the next Regular Meeting. MEMBER GRIGONIS: Second. VOTE: Ayes: Ail. Verbatim portion of hearing concluded at 11:10 p.m. Respectfully submitted, ~nda~F ?~~~t ary Southold Town Board of Appeals