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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/10/2009PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS MARTIN H. SIDOR Chair WILLIAM J. CREMERS KENNETH L. EDWARDS GEORGE D. SOLOMON JOSEPH L. TOWNSEND PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MAILING ADDRESS: P.O. Box 1179 Southold, NY 11971 OFFICE LOCATION: Town Hall Annex 54375 State Route 25 (cot. Main Rd. & Youngs Ave.) Southold, NY Telephone: 631 765-1938 Fax: 631 765-3136 Present were: PUBLIC MEETING MINUTES Monday, August 10, 2009 6:00 p.m. Martin H. Sidor, Chairperson William J. Cremers, Member Kenneth L Edwards, Member George D. Solomon, Member Heather Lanza, Planning Director Kristy Winser, Senior Planner Carol Kalin, Secretary ~:~' ~ 7 ,~nnn . $o.~hol~ T~wn Cl~rl~ SETTING OF THE NEXT PLANNING BOARD MEETING Martin Sidor: Good evening, and welcome to the regular scheduled Southold Town Planning Board Public Meeting. For our first order of business, I would like to entertain a motion to set Monday, September 14, 2009 at 6:00 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, as the time and place for the next regular scheduled Planning Board Meeting. William Cremers: So moved. Kenneth Edwards: Second. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Southold Town Planning Board Paqe Two Au.qust 10, 2009 PUBLIC HEARINGS 6:00 p.m. - P & E, LLClHarbes, Peter: This proposed conservation subdivision is to subdivide a 22.1659-acre parcel into four (4) lots: Lot 1 equals 1.2650 acres (55,100 square feet, Lot 2 equals 1.2650 acres (55,100 square feet), Lot 3 equals 1.2580 acres (54,800 square feet) and Lot 4 equals 18.3779 acres (800,544 square feet) from which The Town of Southold will purchase the Development Rights in August 2009 for the purpose of farmland preservation. The property is located at 5645 Aldrich Lane, Laurel. SCTM#1000-120-3-11.11 Martin Sidor: Anyone in the audience who wishes to address this application, please step forward to the microphone on either side of the aisle, state your name and address and direct all your comments to the Planning Board. Charles Cuddy, Esq. for the applicant: Good evening. I think the reading of the notice sums up pretty much all of the pertinent points. I just would add one thing: while this is sketch plan approval, it becomes very important because this may be the first open development area and so getting sketch plan approval is absolutely important to this applicant, and I have asked that you approve the plan as set forth right here. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to come forward? Hearing none, I will entertain a motion to close the hearing. George Solomon: So moved. Ken Edwards: Second. Martin Sidor: Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Ken Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I will offer the following resolution: WHEREAS, this proposed conservation subdivision is to subdivide a 22.1659 acre parcel into four (4) lots. Lot 1 equals 1.2650 acres (55,100 square feet), Lot 2 equals 1.2650 acres (55,100 square feet), Lot 3 equals 1.2580 acres (54,800 square feet) and Lot 4 equals 18.3779 acres (800,544 square feet) from which The Town of Southold will purchase the Development Rights in August 2009 for the purpose of farmland preservation; and WHEREAS, an application for sketch approval was submitted on June 26, 2009, including the sketch plan prepared by Howard W. Young, L.S., dated May 27, 2009 and last revised July 2, 2009; and WHEREAS, on July 6, 2009, the Southold Town Planning Board, reviewed and accepted the application for formal review; and Southold Town Plannin,q Board Pa,qe Three Au,qust 10, 2009 WHEREAS, this proposed conservation subdivision has 74,998 square feet of clustered conservation open space located within Lot 4 "Agricultural Preserve" which shall remain unbuildable pursuant to Southold Town Code §240-42; and WHEREAS, on July 8, 2009, referrals were sent to the following agencies for comment on the above-referenced project: · Town of Southold Engineer · Town of Southold LWRP Coordinator · Suffolk County Planning Commission; and WHEREAS, on August 6, 2009, Suffolk County Planning submitted their comments and approved the above-referenced application; and WHEREAS, on August 6, 2009, the Southold Town LWRP Coordinator submitted comments on the above-referenced application; and WHEREAS, on August 6, 2009, the Southold Town Engineer submitted comments on the above-referenced application; and WHEREAS, those comments have been considered and accepted by the Southold Town Planning Board and have been incorporated into the sketch plan for the above- referenced application; and WHEREAS, the submitted application meets all of the requirements for sketch approval; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby grants Sketch Approval on the Sketch Plat prepared by Howard W. Young, L.S., dated May 27, 2009 and last revised on July 29, 2009. William Cremers: Second the motion. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Martin Sidor: I have an add-on to that: And be it further RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board finds the proposed action consistent with the LWRP. Kenneth Edwards: Second the motion. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Southold Town Plannin.q Board PaRe Four Au.qust 10, 2009 6:05 p.m. - Satur Farms: This amended site plan is for the construction of an 8,558 sq. ft. agricultural storage barn with loft and loading dock and to re-locate an existing 450 sq. ft. greenhouse and maintain two existing greenhouses 2,880 sq. ft. each on a 17+ acre parcel in the A-C Zoning District. The property is located at 3705 Alvah's Lane on the w/s/o Alvah's Lane approximately 1,855.07' s/o the intersection of AIvah's Lane and CR 48 in Cutchogue. $CTM #'s 1000-101-2-24.5 & 24.6 Martin Sidor: I just want to make a statement here of disclosure that I have business with Satur Farms, but I have no invested interest in their business. I have spoken with the Town Attorney and I basically can participate in this discussion. Anyone wishing to speak on this application, please step forward to either microphone and give your name and address. John Lademann: My wife Joan owns property across the street from Satur Farms and she is not a newcomer to the area. She has lived there since she was born from 1934 on. You might have read in the paper that she was a newcomer to the area, but she wasn't. I'd like some questions and we will give a copy of these to the Board. First of all, the IoadinR dock. Where will the trucks enter or wait to be loaded? Will they back in or turn around in an area in front of the building or back in from the read and go up on my property? They've been using her lawn for turnaround for their trucks. That's why we had to put metal stakes with a spike in them. We had to put up stakes across the front yard to keep them off. Back of barn would be an ideal spot for truck activity. Will trucks keep engines running while loading or waiting ike they do now, out on the read? That's another question. Satur trucks loaded and waitin.q for an a.m. trip to the city: where will they be parked? Hopefully not across from our son's house where he has to listen to them and have fumes coming his way all night long. #3: Area in front of building 75' x 100' will be used for what? Driveway: what kind of surface? Gravel is no good, it creates dust. Can't even keep windows open. That's why we can't rent the house. It's a beautiful spot for kids, a yard, but you can't with all the trucks parked on the road. Power: will they run electricity or use generators for power? If they use generators, where will the fuel be stored? Location: why can't it be moved further back? The excuse seems to be an existing well. Certainly a multi-million dollar business can afford to move a well. No more trucks parked on road blockin.q traffic: Put up a "No Parking" sign on the read. Hi-lows off the road: they've caused many accidents there. No more trailers for storage: no more noise and fumes from diesel motors running 24 hours a day. What about condensers in loft? How will they be vented? Southold Town PlanninR Board Pa,qe Five Au.qust 10, 2009 L.P~ Gas Stora.qe: too many in one location - dangerous situation - should be on concrete base. Here is a picture of eight 300-lb. tanks. A lightning strike could blow the whole neighborhood up. I have asked Yaphank; they want the Supervisor to request a Fire Inspector from Yaphank to inspect it. Fire Protection: the nearest well is .55 mile away for fire protection. That's almost 3,000' of hose you'd have to lay and you wouldn't have much pressure at the end; you'd have to put a pump in the middle. There should be a fire well located near the property. Also, we understand Mr. Sidor has a business relationship with Satur Farms; we understand what you said, but anybody you talk to, it shouldn't be. We understand that they cart your potato chips; it's not right. We understand also that some greenhouses were supposed to be moved; a court ruling in the Appellate Division hasn't been followed up on. Abi.qail Wickham, Esq., representin.q Satur Farms: I hope that I can answer a number, well, I think rve got all of Jack's questions down and I will try to get to all of them during this presentation. Just to start at the beginning, this is an application to amend an existing approval by the Planning Board of a site plan for an ag building, a barn. That prior application was 86' x 52', the size now contemplated is slightly larger, 100' x 70'; it's been a long time coming. After they got the approval for the first building, they still had to get their financial and business plans underway in order to be able to afford to build the building. Its purpose is to contain the agricultural production activities which are now carried on the property on what is essentially a temporary and undersized set of buildings: the smaller barn and the outbuildings and the temporary units. It has been very difficult for Satur Farms as well as the neighbors because of the truck bodies they've had to operate out of, the back and forth with the hi-lows; and they have been trying for a very long time to accomplish being able to house this activity within their own barn facility. They farm acres and acres of field crops in Southold Town. That's the kind of farming they do; it's food, it's something that people who have pursued land preservation out here want to see flourish because it's the only way you're going to have a successful development rights program where you're not going to have a lot of buildup. They're actually doing it. In order to have a successful agricultural production farm, you have to have accessibility to markets. Just being out here on the North Fork near New York City, near the South Fork, near a lot of restaurants and grocery stores is no longer enough. You have to be able to provide to these people who buy vegetables a safe, steady sustainable product. In order to do that, you have to be able to meet very, very strict food safety and production standards. We have the e-coil scares, we've had all kinds of agricultural issues about how food handling is engaged in, and this barn will be built in order to accommodate the necessity for cleanliness, handling; it is raw produce, it is not going to be processed, it's going to be brought in from the field, it's going to be packed in boxes or plastic bags and it's going to be shipped out right away so there will not be a turnaround time for it. Let me try and address some of Mr. Lademann's concerns. There are two loading docks on the west side, which is the farm side, away from their property. That will handle the majority of the farm trucks that come in; those are now coming in along ^lvah's Lane either to the greenhouse truck body area or over to the small barn. So a lot of those trucks will be eliminated from that Southold Town Plannin,q Board Pa.qe Six Au.qust 10, 2009 route; they'll be coming into the back over by the house. (Inaudible) are giving the Planning Board a letter in terms of the anticipated truck traffic; those trucks, (some of the farm trucks that drop off from their Peconic fields), if they cannot get into the front, they can go around on the farm to the back. So they should not have the need to have farm trucks with produce sitting on the street. The trucks that pick up their vegetables will be much quicker because they will have everything centralized in one place. The boxes of vegetables that they pick up they will be able to take with the hi-lows inside the barn, put it into the loading dock also covered and ship it out, so those engines will not be sitting there all day running. It's not an efficient way they operate now and they want to stop it as much as possible for their own business purpose as well as other considerations. So, the long standing trucks that have been a problem in the past we expect to eliminate because again, everything will be contained within the building. The use of the building I think I just described. The trucks he asked about over by John's house, the son's house, again that's going to be, because that's now where their main production is, those trucks being in that location will be if not eliminated, virtually eliminated because they will be over on the main facility. The driveway is going to be pervious material; that's something we discussed with the Planning Board. Right now the driveway is dirt and there probably is dust; I don't think there's any question about it. It's going to be a gravel surface but it will be contained and if necessary I guess if it got to be a problem they could keep it hosed. One of the concerns that they have is noise from generators and compressors. As we have described to the Planning Board, these will be housed indoors in the barn on the second floor, and I believe that's on your plan. The location is 70' back from Alvah's Lane behind what is probably a 7 or 8' mature hedge. That exceeds the setback in the $outhold Town Code; we talked about that this afternoon. In terms of location, that is the best location that they have available. He mentioned the hi-lows coming off the road; again, they are going to now be for the most part in the building. They won't be having to shovel from barn on the south side to the truck bodies on the north side, nor from truck body to truck body or truck body to truck. They will be inside, and that would eliminate the trailers for storage. We've told the Planning Board those are coming out. As far as fire protection is going; that's a concern that the Fire Department will have to manage but certainly all of the homes in the area have existed all this time fortunately without incident but without a firewell. This is a metal building. It will be state of the art; they also have a 4" and an 8" well on site, should God forbid they have a problem with fire. The greenhouses were approved by the Suffolk County Farmland Committee last month and are part of this application. If I missed anything, I'd be glad to tell you when it comes up again. Do you have any questions? Martin Sidor: Anyone on the Board? I don't. Not right now, Gall. Does anyone else wish to address the Board? Jim McNamara: 4000 Alvah's Lane across the street:: What we are concerned about that Jack Lademann had mentioned is the dust, even gravel, over by their barn where it's near their house it's all concrete, even though on the plans it says "earth" but it's all concrete, so there's no dust over there. But we need at least with these tractor trailers. I'm not against the barn, it's a big thing for us, but we need at least some concrete Southold Town Planning Board PaRe Seven August 10, 2009 down there or blacktop or something to keep that. We've been living with dust; we can't even park your car in the driveway for one day and it's just completely filled with dust. Are they going to have bathrooms inside this building for all their workers or are they still going to have port-a-potties outside? My other question is: when they fill up their trucks at night and leave them overnight, are they going to be in that loading dock facing my house? And I'll be listening to that? For years we listened to all their tractor trailers running until it almost drove us crazy and then finally Scott Russell had them moved; most of them anyway. Now what Johnny Lademann is facing where those trucks are right in front of his house, now they'll probably be facing my house, and I'll have to listen to them. And sometimes they have three of them ready to go into the city. Now I can understand them packing the truck up, but can't they put them behind the barn so at least we don't have to listen? Because their trucks are older, and noisy. They're not quiet. So that's basically our concerns. Thank you. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Gail Wickham: Do you want me to answer some of them? Martin Sidor: If you would. Gail Wickham: The driveway by their house, first of all, is stone, not concrete. The concrete driveway is over by the small barn. Those trucks across from John's house that he mentioned are at this point (and I've seen them) they're right up by the road, so they are very close to his house. These trucks will be way back 70' + whatever the depth of the loading dock is. Again, the noise they have been hearing is primarily from those truck bodies. That's being eliminated. They will have all of their stuff inside in the barn so they don't have to load trucks and let them sit. The trucks should come in, they will be loaded, and they can leave. So we don't anticipate anything near the type of situation that existed there in the past. Again, this is something they have been working for and toward a long time and I would ask that you approve this so that we can get it underway and alleviate some of these concerns. Martin Sidor: Anyone else? Dr. D. Damianos: I am here speaking for my daughter-in-law and son and grandson, Nicole and Pindar Damianos and Andrew Damianos. They are arriving by plane right at this hour and could not be here. They have asked me to read this statement to the Board. I commend her on her evaluation and the business plan of this particular farm. I commend the farm for the things they are doing and we are very proud of the fact that they are supplying these wonderful produce to NYC, etc. However, counselor really failed to see what the problem really is with the residents in and around Alvah Lane. If these problems were met, I don't believe anyone would have any objection to this quasi-commercial operation on Alvah Lane. I have here a letter from my son and my daughter-in-law and it is addressed to the Southold Town Planning Board: Southold Town Plannin.q Board Pa.qe Ei.qht Au.qust 10, 2009 "This letter represents our interest and we cannot be in person for this meeting, but we would like our situation and thoughts to be recorded and heard due to the fact that we are directly impacted by the Satur property on a daily basis. For the record, we never received the certified letter in the mail that discussed this meeting; we had to hear through our neighbors. 'Our family includes Pindar, Nicole, and Andrew Damianos. Our story begins about 3 years ago when we purchased the property at 4505 Alvah's Lane, which is directly North of the Satur property in question. We have a 3-month-old son, who entered into this world having to deal with the noise, pollution, and traffic concerns from the very first day of his life. But before we discuss how the Satur land has affected Andrew's world, we'd like to discuss our own personal struggles with the Satur farming situation, as this began about 3 years ago." (And, ladies and gentlemen, this is not a new concern; it's been a concern for a long time.) "When we moved in, there were only a few trucks on the side of the property. Within a year, the amount of trucks had at least doubled, if not quadrupled in number. These trucks affect us, as the noise and fumes are directly angled to our property 24 hours a day, specifically our bedroom window. In addition to the trucks, the entire situation is highly dangerous; not only are there propane tanks sitting in the field near our house, there are very large semi trucks driving up our street 24 hours a day. In addition, there are hi-low machines moving up and down the street all day long." (These have been addressed in part by counselor.) "There have been two separate situations where these machines nearly caused a fatal accident while we were driving down the street trying to go to work. This is also a dangerous situation with a baby, as we walk our stroller down Alvah Lane." "We wanted to discuss a little bit of our history in order to shed light on the current situation. We always did feel as if a barn would most definitely detract from the amount of noise and pollution that we get on our property, as the hope would be that diesel trucks would be eliminated and the fumes and the sounds would finally come to a halt. As we learned about the new plans, we did spend some time reviewing the proposed plans. Our concerns are summarized as such: Proximity of the Greenhouses: The proposed plans indicate that the greenhouses will be moved 20' closer to our property. The net impact of that plan is that the exhaust fans of the greenhouse will be 20' closer to our property. Currently they create vibrations and noise that can be felt and heard when sitting in our home. This only makes our situation worse. We do realize the greenhouses have to be moved in order to make room for the barn, so we feel that the Planning Board should require an 8-10' solid fence and trees be placed along the property line. The fence would reduce the noise and the trees would soundproof our house. In addition, we ask that the greenhouses be moved 180 degrees so that the fans face their house for once and for all, and not ours. Southold Town Plannin,q Board PaRe Nine Au,qust 10, 2009 Note: The fence and trees should be built and planted prior to the inception of the building and construction process. Therefore, we would like to insist that the fences and trees are in before the building permit is issued. This will block out the construction and dust from our property and allow the trees to mature during the building process. 2. Generator on top of the barn (here we go): The plans indicate that there is a generator and/or air conditioning unit on the top of the barn - we are unsure as to exactly what this all entails. Our concerns are as follows: a. Will this generate more noise? · Are they going to build a barn only to create worse noise issues? (What kind of concerns can we have that we can be assured that this would not be so?) · Why can't this be located closer to their house instead of ours? (it's a rhetorical question) Loadin.q Dock: The plan indicates a loading dock will be built on the north side near our house. We are in favor of the loading dock, as it will reduce the forklift traffic on AIvah Lane. Our concern, however, is the lighting, as our bedrooms are directly across from the lights: a. Are these lights going to be on a photo cell? · Or will they be on day and night, especially at night when they are loading? · Are these lights going to be on all day shining into our living reom and bedrooms? · Are these lights going to be so bright that we will never be able to sleep at night? In summary, our position is that we are in favor of building the barn only if our concerns are addressed by the Planning Board. We cannot express enough how much this situation already has altered our lives. We feel we have put up with enough. In fact, when we were planning on where to put the baby's reom, we were not able to use the only room that would have been appropriate - we were forced to use our office on the north side of the house for Andrew. Now the space that was used for business purposes (Nicole runs her own business out of her home) is also used for a baby's reom because of the noise and pollution. We require that the Planning Board include the building of an 8-10' fence and the planting of trees on the south side of our property of 4505 AIvah Lane. In addition, we would like to ensure that all the noise and lighting concerns - the generator, the greenhouses - be addressed." (This is why we are here, not because he's doing a Southoid Town Plannin.q Board Page Ten Au.qust 10, 2009 business. That's fine, we love that. But address some of the problems as good neighbors.) "To summarize our requirements, they are as follows: As stated before, we would like the fence and trees put in prior to the issuing of a building permit. All noise makers: generators, exhaust fans, be moved towards their house. The existing greenhouses should be turned 180 degrees so that the exhaust fumes that we are breathing in on a daily basis are located near their house, and not ours. · An 8-10' solid fence built that will line our property and detract from the view, noise and pollution of the ongoing operations. Trees, as recommended by the Southold Planning Board and Architectural Review Board be planted in addition to the fence to serve as a buffer for the noise and also the view. · We feel that the fence and the trees would reduce the impact on our property." "1 encourage each of you Planning Board members to take a drive down Alvah Lane and listen to the noise and see first hand what we are discussing here. In addition, we would be more than pleased to welcome you all into our house to get a better working knowledge of the entire situation". (We will be serving tea at 2.) "The bottom line here is that we are farmers and have supported farmers on the North Fork of Long Island for over 30 years. What the Satur Farm owners have created is not a farming situation, at least not on Alvah Lane. They have created a distribution facility that has disrupted our lives and the lives of our neighbors. They have destroyed one of the most beautiful streets in Southold by building a (quasi) commercial operation. It's only fair that a fence be built and trees be planted. It is time that Southold takes back Alvah Lane. We feel the residents of Alvah Lane, the Town of Southold and the Saturs can come to some understanding and resolve this issue once and for all. Best regards, Pindar, Nicole, and Andrew Damianos" I have my own concerns, and they are health concerns. And I feel very strongly about this: Diesel Exhaust and Air Pollution. A concentration of these diesel motors going in an area so close to homes is a true danger. From the American Lung Association, the American Medical Society, Chest Surgeons, etc. The question is: why is diesel exhaust and air pollution a problem? Diesel exhaust is a mixture containing over 450 different components, including vapors and fine particles. Over 40 chemicals in diesel exhaust are considered toxic air contaminants by the State of California. Exposure to this mixture may result in cancer, exacerbation of asthma, and other health problems. Southold Town Planning Board Page Eleven August 10, 2009 For the same load and engine conditions, diesel engines spew out 100 times more sooty particles than gasoline engines. As a result, diesel engines account for an estimated 26% of the total hazardous particulate pollution (PM10) from fuel combustion sources in our air, and 66% of the particulate pollution from on-road sources. Diesel engines also produce nearly 20% of the total nitrogen oxides (NOx) in outdoor air and 26% of the total NOx from on-road sources. Nitrogen oxides are a major contributor to ozone production and smog. What are the health effects that I am concerned with? With the concentration of these generators going so close to some of these homes, in particular, my family's home? Diesel exhaust has been linked in numerous scientific studies to cancer, the exacerbation of asthma and other respiratory diseases. A draft report released by the US EPA in February 1998 indicated that exposure to even Iow levels of diesel exhaust is likely to pose a risk of lung cancer and respiratory impairment. In August 1998, the State of California decided there was enough evidence to list the particulate matter in diesel exhaust as a toxic air contaminant--a probably carcinogen requiring action to reduce public exposure and risk. Dozens of studies link airborne fine particles such as those in diesel exhaust to increased hospital admissions for respiratory diseases, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, pneumonia, heart disease and up to 60,000 premature deaths annually in the U.S. The health risk from diesel exposure is greatest for children, the elderly, people who have respiratory problems or who smoke, people who regularly strenuously exercise in diesel-polluted areas, and people who work or live near diesel exhaust sources. Studies have shown that the proximity of a child's residence to major roads is linked to hospital admissions for asthma, and there is a positive relationship between school proximity to freeways and asthma occurrences. Truck and traffic intensity and exhaust measured in schools were significantly associated with chronic respiratory symptoms, and this affected 10% of the absentee rate in schools which are close by. There are other solutions to it: solar energy, various others, too. We have no problem with the farm. We want this farm to be viable and profitable. Because it's wonderful for us to see that our products are going to restaurants and to NYC, etc. in much the same way as our other agriculture products are doing. However, there is a real problem on Alvah Lane and, basically, the noise and the pollution and the dust. If it be addressed, I believe that my kids would be very happy with the result. I thank you very much for your time and your patience. I certainly hope we can come to a good solution. Thank you. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Do you wish to bring that to the Board for the record? Gall Wickham: Would you like me to respond to those? Martin Sidor: Sure. Southold Town Planning Board PaRe Twelve August 10, 2009 Gail Wickham: OK. think I have them ail. I don't think there's any question that this is a bona fide agricultural operation. The Board has reviewed many of these concerns already, but certainly the people in the audience are entitled to hear what the resolution or the expectation has been. Any bona fide agricultural operation does have commercial aspects; there is no question about that. There's heavy equipment, there's noise, there's odors, there's business aspects. Wineries are probably a prime example of that. But the Town has recognized that many of these things are allowed to exist under the Right to Farm Laws. Nonetheless, we have tried to address many of these concerns. First of all: the greenhouses. Those greenhouses are 12' further north, or will be 12' further north than they were, not 20. The exhaust that comes out of both the north and south ends, so it is on the Satur's home side as well as the north side, is air only; there's no fumes or anything of any kind coming out of the greenhouses, it's ventilation. The diesels, Dr. Damianos will be glad to know, will be virtually eliminated. First of ali, the truck bodies as I mentioned that were operating on diesel power, will be eliminated. The trucks that come in and do need to stay there now will have a power source--they can be plugged in at night with electric--they don't have to run a diesel engine all night long. That's going to be a huge difference. The question of the procedural aspect: the certified mail was sent to the address which I personally obtained from the Assessor's Office; I don't know why they didn't get it, but that was the address that was given to me to send. There was a question about the generator. The generator will not be on the roof; it will be inside the building on the second floor. So, again, if a generator were outside, you might be concerned about the noise, but this will be contained within the building and it should eliminate any noise to the neighboring residential properties. Light, as we discussed with the Planning Board, will be very minimal. There really won't be anything other than a couple of motion detectors in the evenings in case someone does come into the property. And they will be shielded and they will comply with the night sky requirements. That was something the Board had asked about, and we have assured them will occur. Again, I think that I know his main point was the diesel, and that is going to be something that we will be able to eliminate by the construction of this building. I know that people here have had a lot of complaints for many, many years. The Town is aware of it, the Planning Board is aware of it, and that is the purpose of this building is to try and contain and eliminate those objectionable aspects to the property. Are there any more questions: I'll try to answer them. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Anyone else? In the back. Someone different. Denise Marcus: I am a neighbor of the Saturs. I've lived there for 25 years. (inaudible) I have a few questions that I'd like to ask. The main one I think I'd like to know is: I understand that you farm in Florida through the winter. I'd like to know if you will be bringing products up from Florida to distribute out of this facility. That's one question. Number Two: the machine that you have in the small barn (that is for chilling vegetables I understand) which was brought in with a crane; I'm wondering are you going to ship that into the new building so all of your production will be processed there in that same building? Or will there still be the opportunity for the trucks to go back and forth around Southold Town Plannin.q Board Pa.qe Thirteen Au.qust 10, 2009 those two driveways? I would like to know if there will also be a retail operation in this building, in the future. Also will there be any value-added products produced there? The point I'm getting to is I'd like to know exactly what the building is going to be used for, and I know a lot of people need to use a commercial lot to do this type of work. I'd love to see agricultural buildings being used as agricultural buildings only and let the commercial aspects of a farm be built on a commercial lot. I think that's what I'm trying to say. I also want to know why the building is so large. What type of volume do you produce every year? That's an 8,000 sq. ft. building; it's quite large for an agricultural building. I do support you. I've seen the fine work that you've done. It's amazing and I support you in all that you are doing, except the building is in my neighborhood, and I do have concerns about the traffic. There have been very many close calls on that road. If you could remove everything back onto your property, I think you have a winning situation. Thank you. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Gail VVickham: I did forget to mention one thing on the prior speaker about the greenhouses, and that is that the northern end of the greenhouse will be, as I look at the map, approximately 449' from their property line. That's a big, big side yard. The questions that Denise asked I think I can answer most of them. The small barn will be retained mostly for herbs; it's a very small part of their business, but they will use it for that specific purpose. I think we had mentioned that earlier. There is no retail whatsoever contemplated at this facility. If they ever did want to do retail, I imagine the Building Department would send us back here for an amended site plan. It's not contemplated, but if it ever did happen, that would be the procedure. The Florida produce: they actually have a very minor presence in Florida during the winter. It is their farm, they farm it. It is a miniscule portion of their production and it really doesn't amount to anything compared to what they are carrying on in Southold Town. But the question was asked and you're entitled to an answer. The barn is big because they have an operation that they want to contain within it. The upstairs, as the Board knows, is going to be used not only to house mechanical equipment, but also to house box storage, which is what they pack their produce in, and that's what some of those truck bodies contain: boxes so that they can be utilized in their facility. The traffic that Denise mentioned: again, this is going to be alleviated by the centralization of these production activities within one building. Thank you. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Anyone else? John Lademann: I've got a copy of the latest farmland regulation. It says here: locally grown - a product grown in the counties of Kings, Nassau, Queens or Suffolk in the State of New York can be processed. They admitted to the Farmland Committee that they bring produce in from Phoenix, Arizona. This was at a meeting last year. Now they are bringing stuff in from Florida, which is not (inaudible). Another thing I didn't get an answer on: the generators. Are they going to use electricity from LIPA, or are they going to bring in generators, which will increase their motors running? Are they going to get rid of some motors and then add other motors? We got to find these answers out. Southold Town Planning Board PaRe Fourteen August 10, 2009 Martin Sidor: Thank you. Go ahead. Dr. Damianos: We are really not concerned about the miniscule coming from Florida; that really is not our concern. We have to compliment this agricultural family for doing such a fine job. However, there are issues that we seem to circumvent or obfuscate I should say. Number One: the greenhouses are 400' away, but we didn't say they were less than/more than 400' away; we are saying that they are going to be moved 20' closer. If they were an annoyance at 400', they're going to be even a bigger annoyance if they are moved 20' closer. Secondly, I am really concerned about this metal building that's going to house these large air conditioning units which make a lot of noise, especially in a metal building unless you soundproof the entire building. If that building is soundproofed, then we are not going to hear those generators going producing air conditioning and the cold temperature. But if they are not there, it's going to be a megaphone; it will just reverberate even more and more. I had that same problem in Head of the Harbor where we had a farm, and I'm all for farming. Unfortunately, the farmer had this metal building and he had all kinds of generators etc. in there and it was unbelievable the amount of noise. We said, come on, just put some soundproofing up there so that it doesn't resound 24 hours a day. Regarding wineries (which, of course, is very close to my heart), we essentially use (when we aren't making our wine) electricity: not generators, but actually electricity from LIPA to chill our wines, etc. As far as we are concerned, we are talking about 100 acres or 30 acres where there's one tractor going up and down from 7:00 a.m. until 5:00. And it's not in one place. What we are talking about here is concentration of equipment. If this were a hundred acre farm or a 200-acre farm, we could then split this thing up nicely along the farm and we'd have no problem. But it is concentrated and that really causes a problem. Basically, we are for their application with the various things (not restrictions) we hope that the Planning Board will put in there to protect our people. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Anyone else? Gail Wickham: First of all, I just want to mention for the record that Satur Farms farms approximately 180 acres in the Town of Southold. That's a pretty significant presence. That is their business; that is the heart of their business. Anything else is purely incidental. Again, the greenhouses are being moved 12' to a distance of almost 450' from the line. The generator issue: I'm glad rm able to answer Dr. Damianos' questions. Again, the generators and compressors will be housed in the barn. It will be soundproofed. They are checking into geothermal, that's not in the budget as planned right now, but it's something that if they can do it financially, they certainly would be better off having at some point. I'd like to mention that their house will be 30' from the new barn, so nobody is going to be closer than they will be. So that's a consideration that they have looked into. My last comment is: they are entitled under zoning and under Town laws to make this noise, but they are trying very, very hard to minimize it and contain it. I think the Board appreciates that and I hope the neighbors will appreciate that as well. Southold Town Planning Board Page Fifteen August 10, 2009 Dr. Damianos: I don't really agree that they are allowed to make that noise and that the Town says yes, you can make that noise. I really don't agree; it's totally ungracious to say something like that. We realize that we are farmers and there is some noise that occurs, but not 24 hours of noise and not 180 acres spread out, but concentrated in a small area where all of these pieces of machinery, etc. are going not 8 hours a day, but 24 hours a day. Please address that. Gail Wickham: I don't want to keep repeating myself. Martin Sidor: Is there anyone else? Paulette Satur, Satur Farms: I think Gail has done a terrific job of answering my neighbors' questions. My husband and I did come here close to 12 years ago. We didn't plan on starting this farm. Had we realized what we were getting into, we wouldn't have done it. But it started mushrooming and growing, and we've had a lot of growing pains and we've suffered a lot as you might imagine. I think you know a lot of you have your businesses and/or farms and you know what kind of work it is and what a financial drain it is. It was with great luck that we found a local bank who finally financed this project with us and we are looking forward to containing it. Dr. Damianos is concerned about health issues. There will be no more trailers, diesel trailers, that we use for refrigeration right now, because the barn will be our refrigerated storage area. Our trucks that are loaded for deliveries into the city for the evening, now they will be pulled up to the loading dock, loaded expeditiously (thank God), and plugged in so that they are running on electric at night and not the diesel engines as they have been. I haven't had room to plug them in before; I didn't have the space. There wasn't room alongside the little old barn that we have. So this particular building should pretty much solve all of the problems that we have been talking about. We've even taken the step not to put the condensers on the roof as our builder is suggesting, but to put them inside and to as you said, put in eggshell carton insulation for sound and noise. Every step that we are taking is to become a better neighbor. So, we appreciate your time and consideration. Thank you. Jim McNamara, 4000 Alvah's Lane: I would just like the Board to try to figure out a way that when they have their trucks waiting overnight to go into the city, they can muffle the sound because it's going to be coming right towards Lademann's and my house all night long. Their trucks, even though they are on electric, are very loud. They go constant, and it's not a smooth sound: it's on/off. If there is some way you could block some of that noise from our house. I'm not begrudging them keeping the trucks there; they need to; but figure out a way. I wouldn't mind having a fence behind the privet hedge, because the privet hedge does nothing. Basically I don't care; I'll look at a 10' fence rather than have to listen to the noise. Thank you very much. Martin Sidor: Thank you. George Solomon: I think one of the things that we discussed today was to put another row of screening inside the privet hedge to cut some of the sound. Southold Town Plannin.q Board Pa,qe Sixteen Au.qust 10, 2009 Martin Sidor: Is there anyone else? I would just like to add a little overview here without taking too much time. I think it's safe to say that there is more diversity in crops on Long Island today than ever before, and there is also more diversity in the kinds of people raising these crops than ever before, whereas maybe 100-50 years ago there were simply Irish-Americans raising potatoes and Polish-Americans raising potatoes, cauliflower and cabbage, what have you. That is not the case any longer. It is now diverse and we all now: I have come to realize that this diversity we more rely on each other than ever before. We sort of promote ourselves as we go through this situation: Dr. Damianos is now very much attuned to the wineries and what I'm trying to do with my operation. The hope and desire here for me was that this building, citing this plan with this building would rectify problems that we are well aware of. I had summarized the noise, the truck traffic and I have spoken with several of you people. That's what the desire here is for. I take exception to the fact that I should not weigh in on this. Because I feel if you want to handicap agriculture, what farmer could sit on the Town Board or the Planning Board? There would be none. I put much effort into my thought, with the Town Attorney to make sure that what I am doing here is proper and that there is nothing here that could be considered anything out of the ordinary or mischievous. I hope this situation ends up like what I saw in a local paper here two weeks ago: where someone was having a barbecue and basically the topic of the letter to the editor was: "Thank you, Mr. Wickham". Basically, it was a man spraying his apples, I guess (I'm not sure), and he came across a neighbor who was having a barbecue. The farmer decided to stop his spraying operation and come back and finish up when the barbecue was completed or the day was done. That's my hope here. My concern is that we are all in this together as farmers. As different and diverse as we are, we come from different make-ups, different nationalities, different financial situations, we are all different kinds of people in this operation, but we are all in this thing together. I hope citing this will rectify the problem on Alvah's Lane. I truly hope so. I think I can speak for the Planning Board: I'm sure for the Town Board. I've spoken with Gall several times. I hope that these problems will go away. Dr. Damianos: Mr. Chairman, we compliment you, and we are very proud that you are our Chairman here. Being a fellow farmer, we know your objectivity and sincerity is profound, and we compliment you, and we thank you for that. Martin Sidor: I would simply say, Dr. Damianos, I have handed out more potatoes and potato chips to neighbors to keep everybody happy than you could possibly imagine. (Planning Board/Staff conference) Geor.qe Solomon: I make a motion to close the hearing. Kenneth Edwards: I'll second it. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Southold Town Plannin,q Board PaRe Seventeen Au.qust 10, 2009 Ayes. Martin Sidor: The hearing is closed. Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings: Sutton, Alexander & Tracy - This proposal is for a standard subdivision where two parcels: SCTM#1000-78-09-54 (1.82 ac.) and SCTM#1000-78-09-78 (0.624 ac.) will be re-subdivided into two new parcels. Proposed Lot 1 will be 61,899 s.f. and proposed Lot 2 will be 44,587 s.f. in the R-40 Zoning District. The property is located at 1160 North Bayview Road, 111.56' northeast of Liberty Lane and Victoria Drive, Southold. Martin Sidor: This is a hearing held over for the fourth time, I believe, from previous meetings. Anyone wishes to address: please step forward, name and address. Richard Vandenbur,qh, Esq., I represent the Suttons: I have just a response to the opinion letter that was submitted at the last hearing with a few exhibits; I'd like to hand those up. Just briefly, contained in that package is an observation of some of the facts. Again, notwithstanding all of the prior commentary that we've had, the Suttons have no interest in limiting or imposing upon the right-of-way as it exists and has existed for generations. I've provided some case file reference in there as well to support my interpretation of the law on this issue. We would ask that the Board consider the subdivision application with an eye towards approving the appropriate yield for approval. Again, nothing is going to be done to impose or impair that subdivision as it has existed for more than 40 years. Thank you. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Anyone else who wishes to address the Board? Eileen Powers, 230 Columbia Road, Southold: I have some photographs just so that we could make them part of the record of the right-of-way as it exists over the last year. Also, there is some photographs of the Town maintaining the right-of-way on the issue of whether or not this is actually a public highway by use under NYS law. We addressed it at length; I think the rest of the arguments we have made really covers our objections here. Just depending on where this goes, for the record. Also, we haven't had a chance to look at the submission by the Suttons, and we'd ask that you keep the hearing open at this point so we can take a look at it before you close it, so we have a fair chance to respond to it. Martin Sidor: Thank you. Anyone else who wishes to address the Board? Hearing none, please excuse us. (Planning Board conference) I need a motion. Geor.qe Solomon: I make a motion to close the hearing this evening and keep open for the next two weeks written comments so that counsel can come into the office, FOIL the content of the file and give us in writing prior to us making our decision. Southold Town Plannin,q Board PaRe Eighteen ^uRust 10, 2009 Eileen Powers, 230 Columbia Road, Southold: As far as I'm concerned, there's no (inaudible) other than (inaudible) you have here. There's been no public discourse on this at all. We've spent a lot of time, money and effort into this; we received not even so much as a comment from you on anything we did. Then he comes in today and submits it and you're gonna close it in the height of August, the vacation season, and give us two weeks to now respond on paper without having the opportunity to hear any of your thoughts on any of the applicant ...... You know I listened to the last application; there was give and take by the Board. There was a nice presentation by counsel for the applicant. There was respect shown by the Board to the people who were speaking, none of which we've experienced in this. There was no presentation of this application to this day. Despite everything that's gone on; there's been no presentation by anybody: just comments by their counsel that they're going to keep this and they have no intention of doing it despite the fact that the written documentation that they provided to some of my neighbors said the opposite. So, we are very frustrated for it; I oppose keeping it open for a two-week comment period in the vacation season in August. Right now my neighbors are not here because it's the vacation season. You could at least keep it open until the September 14 meeting date if you're not gonna show us the courtesy at least of having a discussion about this application. Martin Sidor: At the last monthly meeting, thera was one of your neighbors that basically said "the time has come to close this; when can we get this done with?" That was the intent going into this. Information has just been passed to us that some time is needed to digest; I think you'd agree to that. Eileen Powers: OK. Martin Sidor: So what we ara trying to do is find this compromise now. We have to react to this. Eileen Powers: I agree with that. Martin Sidor: Based from last month's meeting, where the intent was to try, and I made a comment here that this is the fourth time going over this. We were going to try to close this down and then the compromise was to give it two weeks and have the back and forth where you can see the document, we could go through the document ourselves and then finally come to peace with this. Eileen Powers: I would love that if that were the case. Martin Sidor: That is the case. Eileen Powers: There has been no back and forth here. Except that we submitted documents and now they have submitted documents. As far as I can tell, rve gotten no comment, nothing from the Planning Board. We don't know how you feel about this. We have no idea if we're like whistling Dixie. I have no idea if rm wasting my time or my neighbors' time trying to adjourn this again to September to come back again yet Southold Town Plannin,q Board PaRe Nineteen Au.qust 10, 2009 another night to discuss it with you because we haven't heard word one from the Planning Board on this subject. You sit there and don't say a word about the application. Martin Sidor: I have continually sat down with staff on a weekly basis, more than once on a weekly basis, with the information going back and forth. Is there is any new information been received? What's going on here? I mean, there's timelines, we have all sorts of paperwork on this. So it's not that there's nothing going on. Eileen Powers: There's been no discussion at the public hearings. Martin Sidor: There has been discussion; we've had four of them. Eileen Powers: But there, no, there's no discussion... Martin Sidor: No, we've presented both sides. Eileen Powers: There's a lot of discussion from us and there has been some comment from the applicant but there's been no comment from the Planning Board. Martin Sidor: OK. We got information today. We have to take that into account. So now the compremise: Mr. Solomon, you made a motion; do you want to continue with it, or withdraw it? Geor,qe Solomon: Continue with the motion. Martin Sidor: OK. Is there a second? William Cremers: Second. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Martin Sidor: Motion carries. Warren Knudson, Liberty Lane, Southold: We submitted some documents about a month ago. Opposing counsel has had a month to review that material and respond. He responded today and now you're saying well, you have only two weeks to respond to his. To come in, look at it and go threugh it, but you have to be ready in two weeks to answer it. That's not quite fair. Then the counsel (inaudible) today we have no intention of infringing upon any right of ways. The original document they submitted, did not refer to any original right of ways, it says "we will grant new right of ways." Not acknowledging that any ever existed. So, for him to come here and say 'we never had Southold Town Plannin.q Board Pa,qe Twenty Au,qust 10, 2009 any intention of doing anything with any existing right of ways' is not true, because his original document didn't say that. But I think they deserve a little more time than two weeks when that material was just turned in today. It's not fair to give him a month to respond to these people's documents. An extra two weeks shouldn't hurt to give them time to review what was submitted today (inaudible) and to respond. Martin Sidor: Thank you. CONSERVATION SUBDIVISIONS, STANDARD SUBDIVISIONS, RE- SUBDIVISIONS (Lot Line Changes) Final Determinations: Mulvane¥1Bresloff - This application is for a lot line modification to transfer 3,746 s.f. from Lot 1 (SCTM#1000-31-8-12.4) decreasing the size from 34,194 s.f. to 30,448 s.f., to Lot 2 (SCTM#1000-31-8-13) increasing the size from 8,334 s.f. to 12,080 s.f. Both Lots are improved with single-family dwellings. The properties are located at 225 Marion Lane & 730 Bay Avenue, East Marion. GeorRe Solomon: WHEREAS, on March 9, 2009, the Southold Town Planning Board granted conditional final approval on the surveys prepared by John T. Metzger, Land Surveyor, dated October 7, 2008, subject to the following condition: The filing of new deeds with the Office of the Suffolk County Clerk pertaining to the lot line change and, upon filing, submission of a copy to this office; and WHEREAS, on July 16, 2009, a copy of the recorded filed deed with the Office of the Suffolk County Clerk was submitted, recorded under Liber D00012592 and Page 76; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby grants final approval on the surveys prepared by John T. Metzger, Land Surveyor, dated October 7, 2008. William Cremers: Second the motion. Martin Sidor: Motion seconded, any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Southold Town Planning Board Pa,qe Twenty-One August 10, 2009 Amendment to Final Plat: Ore,qon Landing I - Amendment to the approved final subdivision maps for Oregon Landing I to reflect the changed road specifications to be built pursuant to the requirements of Southold Town Code §161-15, Drawing No. 15-4. The property is located n/o Oregon Road, 625 feet w/o Bridge Lane in Cutchogue in the A-C and R-80 Zoning Districts. SCTM#1000-83-2-9.1 William Cremers: I will offer the following resolution: WHEREAS, the Oregon Landing I clustered subdivision is a 25.79 acre parcel (SCTM#1000-83-2-9.1) which has been divided into five lots where Lot 1 equals 136,244 sq. ft.; Lot 2 equals 81,016 sq. ft.; Lot 3 equals 75,738 sq. ft.; Lot 4 equals 70,383 sq. ft. and Lot 5 equals 17.02 acres upon which Development Rights have been sold to the Town of Southold; and WHEREAS, on June, 13, 2005, final approval was granted by the Southold Town Planning Board; and WHEREAS, on July 1,2009, the applicant requested to amend the approved road section requirements for Oregon Landing I which was approved with road sections that exceeded the requirements of Highway Specifications for 5 lots as required by Southold Town Code {}161-15 with Drawing No.15-3; and WHEREAS, on July 17, 2009, the Southold Town Engineer met with the applicants and carefully discussed and reviewed the requested road specification changes; and WHEREAS, on July 20, 2009, at the Southold Town Planning Board Work Session, the Southold Town Engineer recommended to the Planning Board that the approved road specifications be amended to allow the applicant to use road specifications as required by Southold Town Code §161-15 Drawing No. 15-4 instead; and WHEREAS, on July 20, 2009, the Southold Town Planning Board considered and agreed with the Southold Town Engineer's recommendation to allow for the amended road specifications for Oregon Landing I; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby grant approval for the amendment to the approved subdivision maps for Oregon Landing I, SCTM#s1000-83- 2-9.1, to reflect the changed road specifications to be built pursuant to the requirements of Southold Town Code §161-15, Drawing No. 15-4. Kenneth Edwards: Second the motion. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded, any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Southold Town Planning Board PaRe Twenty-Two August 10, 2009 Oregon IIIBandenchini - Amendment to the approved final subdivision maps for Oregon Landing II to reflect the changed read specifications to be built pursuant to the requirements of Southold Town Code {}161-15, Drawing No. 15-4. The property is located on the n/s/o Oregon Road, approximately 135' w/o Alvah's Lane in Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-95-1-5 Kenneth Edwards: I will offer the following resolution: WHEREAS, the Oregon Landing II/Badenchini clustered conservation subdivision is a 32.73-acre parcel which has been divided into 5 lots where Lot 1 equals 2.07 acres; Lot 2 equals 4.37 acres, inclusive of a 2.36 acre right-of-way; Lot 3 equals 1.18 acres; Lot 4 equals 1.24 acres and Lot 5 equals 23.75 acres upon which the Development Rights have been sold to the Town of Southold; and WHEREAS, on October 16, 2006, final approval was granted by the Town of Southold Planning Board; and WHEREAS, on July 1, 2009, the applicant requested to amend the approved road section requirements for Oregon Landing II/Badenchini which was approved with road sections that exceeded the requirements of Highway Specifications for 5 lots as required by Southold Town Code {}161-15 with Drawing No.15-3; and WHEREAS, on July 17, 2009, the Southold Town Engineer met with the applicants and carefully discussed and reviewed the requested road specification changes; and WHEREAS, on July 20, 2009, at the Southold Town Planning Board Work Session, the Southold Town Engineer recommended to the Planning Board that the approved road specifications be amended to allow the applicant to use road specifications as required by Southold Town Code {}161-15 Drawing No. 15-4 instead; and WHEREAS, on July 20, 2009, the Southold Town Planning Board considered and agreed with the Southold Town Engineer's recommendation to allow for the amended road specifications for Oregon Landing II/Badenchini; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board hereby grant approval for the amendment to the approved subdivision maps for Oregon Landing II/Badenchini, SCTM#1000-95-1-5 to reflect the changed road specifications to be built pursuant to the requirements of Southold Town Code {}161-15, Drawing No. 15-4. William Cremers: Second the motion. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Martin Sidor: Motion carries. Southold Town Planning Board Page Twenty-Three August 10, 2009 APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES Martin Sidor: I need a motion to approve the minutes of July 13, 2009 Regular Meeting. William Cremers: So moved. George Solomon: Second. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. Martin Sidor: And finally a motion for adjournment. George Solomon: So moved. Kenneth Edwards: Second. Martin Sidor: Motion made and seconded. Any discussion? All in favor? Ayes. There being no further business to come before the meeting, it was ADJOURNED at 7:13 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Martin H. Sidor, Chair