HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-01/30/1978P
JOHN ~CKHAM, Chairman
FRANK S. COYLE
HENRY E. RAYNOR, Jr.
FREDERICK E. GORDON
JAMES WALL
Southold, N.Y. 11971
January 30, 1978
TELEPHONE
765- 1938
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board was
held at 7:30 p.m., Monday, January 30, 1978, at the Town Hall,
Main Road, Southold, New York.
Present were:
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry E. Raynor, Jr., Vice-Chairman
Frank S. Coyle
Frederick E. Gordon
James Wall
Also present were:
Franklin Bear, North Fork Environmental Council
Millicent Gossner, League of Women Voters
Corwin Grathwohl, Southold Businessmen's Assn.
Frances Wegoner, L. I. Traveler-Watchman
Peter Campbell, Suffolk Times
Jean Tiedke
7:30 p.m. Public Hearing - Minor Subdivision of Arlene Marvin.
The Chairman opened the hearing. Mr. Raynor read the notice of
hearing and presented proof of publication from the L. I. Traveler-
Watchman. Present were Richard Cron, Esq., and Arlene Marvin.
Mr. Wickham: I have the checklist here that states that sketch
plan maps were received and the Planning Board approved. I have
the application, fee and copies of the final map and the covenants
and restrictions. It has been sent to the Suffolk County Planning
Commission and the following are their recommendations.
Dear Mr. Wickham:
Pursuant to the requirements of Section 1333, Article XIII
of the Suffolk County Charter, the above captioned proposed final
plat which has been referred to the Suffolk County Planning Commission
is considered to be a matter for local determination; however, this
shall not be construed that the Commission has either approved or
disapproved this particular plat.
Planning Board - -2- ,~nuary 30, 1978
Comments - It is suggested that erosion control measures be required
during construction on Lots 3 and 4 to insure that there will not
be any erosion that will carry soils and other materials doyen onto
Mill Road.
/s/ Charles G. Lind, Chief Planner
Subdivision Review Section
I have a copy of a covenant which hasn't been executed yet. (Mr.
Wickham read the part of the covenant which has to do with no
further subdivision of the property and there being no more than
four lots.) This covers any and all lots. I have a letter from
the developer about statements to the County as to no grading, etc.
I have gone through the file and it appears to be in order. I
will ask at this time for anybody that wishes to be heard in
opposition to this minor subdivision in Mattituck lying on the
northeast corner made by Luther's Road and Mill Road. Is there
anyone that wishes to be heard in opposition? Hearing none, I
will ask for anyone that wishes to speak in favor of this subdivision.
Richard Cron, Esq.: If it pleases the Board, I am here on behalf
of the applicant and, as the Board is well aware, we have appeared
a number of times. Time if somewhat of the essence as we have a
contract of sale that mandates a closing within the next forty-five
days. I would like to bring one factor to the Board's attention.
In regard to the statement that we filed about drainage facilities,
the lots not built upon will need drainage facilities.
Mr. Wickham: This is understood. The County suggested erosion
control facilities for lots 3 and 4. The land is quite steep here
and during construction and grading for lawn or something, I think
it is apparent that there could be a real problem if some measures
aren't taken.
Mr. Cron: This is something we will keep under consideration and
make a note of.
Mr. Wickham: Anyone else wish to be heard on this subdivision.
Hearing none, I will declare the hearing closed.
Cutchogue Joint Ventures. Richard Cron, Esq., appeared. He had
presented new maps and the board reviewed them. The major change
was moving over the 50 foot spur road between lots 7 and 8 in
accordance with the recommendations of the board because of low
lying areas and other drainage areas. Mr. Raynor mentioned the
small jib piece on the easterly side which didn't seem to suit any
purpose. The drainage and park and recreation area should be
separate. Eliminate the reverse curves.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED to grant approval to the sketch map of subdivision
known as "Cutchogue Joint Ventures", said map amended November 30,
1977, subject to jib piece by Main Road being eliminated and removal
of reverse curves at the entrance to the subdivision.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Gordon, Coyle
Wall
Planning Board - -3- ~nuary 30, 1978
8:00 p.m. - Public Hearing - Preliminary map of the subdivision
known as "Soundwood Farms".
Mr. Wickham opened the public hearing and Mr. Raynor read the
notice of hearing and presented proof of publication in the L.
Traveler-Watchman. Richard Cron, Esq., appeared.
Mr. Wickham: There is something very different. The owner is
shown as Rubin and the map shows Motet.
Mr. Cron: The map will have to be changed. The correct name of
the owner is in the legal.
Mr. Wickham went over the checklist.
Mr. Wickham: We have two pages from the county which I shall read.
Dear Mr. Wick_ham:
In accordance with your request the staff has examined the
proposed subdivision layout for a 31.59 acre tract reputedly owned
by Michael Moret and offer the following comments on the map for
your use.
The Commission's concern with this proposed subdivision will
be the impact that it can have upon Long Island Sound and the bluffs
along the Sound. It is believed that since a common access to the
beach is being provided that all access to the beach should be
restricted to the access strip. This includes Lots I and 2.
Access to the beach should be by means of a suitable structure
that will not result in erosion of the bluff. In order to afford
structures on the top of the bluff some degree of protection should
be kept back a minimum of 100 feet from the top of the bluff. No
sanitary facilities should be located in this area. Grading within
the area should be prohibited to prevent damage to the bluff and
clearing and cutting within the area should be limited to that
required for maintenance.
The staff questions the topographic information on the map
that is in the vicinity of the bluff. Normally, a single contour
line can not lie between two contour lines of higher or lower
elevation.
Relative to the overall layout you may want to consider the
following:
1. Creation of this subdivision will result in the loss of
valuable farmlands and may have an adverse impact on the adjoining
farmlands. It is suggested that the proposed lots be concentrated
on the northern 1/3 of the tract near the Sound. It would be
preferable if the lots were 100' by 150' in size (15,000 square
feet in area). The remainder of the tract could remain as active
farmland by clustering in this manner.
2. Unfortunately, the proposed road layout will detract from
the residential amenities sought in a subdivision such as this.
The long, straight street will encourage speeding. Speeding
Planning Board - -4- - January 30, 1978
vehicles not only jeopardize children in the area but increase
noise levels within the homes. Long, straight streets also detract
from residential amenities by contributing to visual monotony. An
alternate road layout should be devised (refer to map).
3. A "dog-leg" jog should not be used for any subdivision
that consists of more than a few lots.
4. General practice suggests that the length of a street
should be limited to 1,000 feet unless an alternate means of access
to the houses is available for emergency equipment in the event
that the street becomes blocked. The length of the proposed road,
Soundwood Lane, is too long by this standard as the adjacent
properties are undeveloped farmlands that will not provide ready
access during spring thaws and "wet" seasons. It will be some time
before these tracts are developed and the streets are tied in to
provide on another means of access. By this standard, only the
southerly 1,O00 to 1,500 feet of the tract should be developed.
Staff comments on a preliminary map do not constitute a review
of the map by the Suffolk County Planning Commission. When the map
has been finalized it should be referred to the Commission for
review pursuant to Section 1333 of the Suffolk County Charter.
/s/ Charles G. Lind, Chief Planner
Subdivision Review Section
Mr. Wickham: At this time, I will ask for those that wish to be
heard in opposition to this subdivision known as "Soundwood Farm"
on Oregon Road in Mattituck.
Jean Tiedke: Is this about 1/3 of a mile from Oregon Road?
Mr. Wickham: About 4/5 of a mile. Is there anyone that wishes
to be heard in favor of this subdivision.
Mr. Cron: I appear on behalf of the applicant. I would take
recognition of the fact that this board does not especially like
this subdivision but, nevertheless, we have made an earnest effort
to comply with the rules and regulations of the Town of Southold
and in the light thereof I would ask the board to grant preliminary
approval of this application.
Mr. Wickham: Anyone else wish to be heard in favor of this
subdivision? I want to say that this has been before this board
and, for the record, we have questioned it repeatedly and there
are some very real problems that we both recognize and the problems
and inherent in the parcel itself. Is there anyone else that has
any comments.
Mrs. Tiedke: It seems to me that this is an example of strip
development and completely out of line with the character of the
town. Is there any way to develop it with ranchettes, if it has to
be developed?
Mr. Raynor: Many of these proposals have been discussed and
alternate layouts.
Planning Board ~- -5- January 30, 1978
Mrs. Tiedke: I didn't mean cluster, but four or five acre lots.
Mr. Cron: The unfortunate part is you are confined to certain
rules and regulations that don't allow a great deal of flexibility.
It is fine for anybody that doesn't own the land but there is a
point of economic no return and it has to be evaluated on what you
can derive from the land. It is hardly likely that one could
develop the thing along the lines you indicate. If it could be
done, it would be done.
Mr. Wickham: Long ago this board suggested the possibility of a
minor subdivision at the Sound because as we see it the problem is
the highway which will consist, the board will be using present
standards, it will be bonded between 80 and 100 thousand dollars.
A minor subdivision would not require a highway to town standards.
We have done this thing in other cases where there is a long way up
to the Sound and we think this is a practical approach. The
ranchettes would require a highway and, again, it wouldn't be
practical.
Mr. Cron: As the board knows, those avenues were all discussed.
Mr. Wickham: There are two problems. One is that the parcel does
not lend itself well to development. This is apparent. The other
is that it would work a hardship to the agricultural lands on
either side, in all probability, if they stay in agriculture.
Mr. Cron: I recognize the problems. I do not have a solution for
them.
Mr. Wickham: Neither do we.
Mr. Raynor: One of the concerns I have is primarily the straight
road construction.
Mr. Cron: It is the nature of the parcel.
Mr. Raynor: It only allows one egress and ingress and I am sure
you are aware of the decision in the Village of East Hampton where
the developer was denied the right to develop the property on the
basis of the question of having one ingress and egress where the
road was 3/5 of a mile long. There were numerous other reasons
but this was the main one.
Mr. Wickham:
the hearing.
I think we have gone as far as we can. I will close
Nina Stevens - Sunset Bluffs. Richard Cron, Esq., appeared.
There is no parking in the vicinity of the playground area. Mr.
Cron said they don't want any parking in there. Lots i and 19
should be marked for no access to Oregon Road. The town engineer
wants the cuts and fills balanced a little bit more. Parking
could be in the northern most park and playground area. Mr. Cron
would like a copy of Mr. Tuthill's (engineer) recommendations of
January 23, 1978.
Planning Board -6- -January 30, 1978
Aliano & Krupski change of zone application. Mr. Aliano appeared
before the board and showed two pictures of the erosion that has
taken place on his property since the last meeting. Mr. Raynor
indicated that he had inspected the property and Mr. Aliano did
indeed have a problem. Mr. Raynor had inspected it before the
bad storm of last weekend. Mr. Aliano requested a favorable
recommendation on his change of zone application so he can plan
for the future with his motel operation.
John Simicich subdivision. Charles Cuddy, Esq., and John Simicich
appeared before the board to review the sketch map of this major
subdivision of property. The board suggested to the applicant
that he develop the property in the cluster concept. Mr. Simicich
will make a decision on the matter.
Country Club Estates. Gary Flanner Olsen, Esq., and Howard Young
appeared. Mr. Tuthill had made a recommendation to eliminate the
reverse and compound curves. Mr. Young felt curves properly
designed are more for traffic safety than a traffic hazard.
Compound curves are used every day for exits off expressways. He
sees no problem with design of curves. Mr. Raynor agreed except
the southerly most road to Linden Avenue. Mr. Wickham felt the
curve was sharper than it needs to be. There was discussion about
the sunburst and both Mr. Wickham and Mr. Raynor thought it was
o.k. There was discussion on the cuts and fills. Mr. Young said
he was trying to design a roadway with grassed water ways and it
is very impractical to put this road above grade because this will
be the carrying unit for the runoff of water. Mr. Wickham agree
with Mr. Young but thought three feet was too much. The problem
of the invert syphons Mr. Young will work out. The problem of the
sand drain being insufficient will be referred back to the Soil
and Water Conservation District. Mr. Raynor expressed his concern
if the system should fail will there be runoff from the road to
the marshland. There is no drainage shown on Linden Avenue and no
firewell provided. Mr. Olsen said this item would be provided.
The map will be forwarded to the ~utchogue Fire District for their
comment on location of the firewell.
The question on the road to Baxter's property on the west side of
the subdivision was discussed. Mr. Wickham said, after looking at
it, he thinks it might not be too smart as there is marshland
there and a pond. Mr. Young thought there might be a problem
with the Dept. of Environmental Conservation.
The road to the country club was discussed. Mr. Young said he
thought Mr. Babcock had discussed it with the sketch plan and it
was decided it wouldn't be necessary. Mr. Raynor said he did not
see why it was necessary at all.
It appears that the park and playground is insufficient. Mr.
Young said he would assure the board that it would be sufficient.
An archaelogical review of the property was not discussed.
Planning Board -_ -7- 12anuary 30, 1978
The county recommendations were discussed. Covenants and
restrictions for lot 32 will be filed that it will not be further
subdivided nor presented for a downzoning.
Lots 17 and 32 will be restricted as to no further subdivision.
Mr. Wickham would like to see setback lines on 17 and 24, 16 and
22, these lots not having 150 foot on the road.
Regarding drainage on the state road, there are existing drains
just to the west of the property.
Mr. Olsen said the drainage system would be governed by a home
owners association. Mr. Wickham said covenants would be required
so the drainage structures would be maintained. Mr. Olsen said
it was in the covenants now.
The items regarding the placement of disposal facilities and set-
back for structures from the marsh will be governed by the Dept.
of Health, the DEC and the building department.
It was determined that the sunburst would be alright.
Southold Gardens - Babcock and Rimmler - Gary Olsen, Esq. appeared.
Mr. 01sen questioned where the board wanted the valley gutter
placed. The board could not remember and said they would look it
up and let him know.
Woodbine Manor - Mr. and Mrs. John Fellinger-Ihar. Mr. and Mrs.
Ihar appeared. The letter from Mr. Dean, Supt. of Highways, was
reviewed and it is agreeable with Mr. and Mrs. Ihar that they
will dedicate to the Town of Southold a strip of land along tht
east line of lot 17 and they will also grant a 20 foot easement
from Duck Pond Road to the recharge area, half of it on lot 20 and
half of it on lot 21. Mr. Tuthill, town engineer, presented the
bond estimate for $66,000. Mr. Ihar requested a copy of the bond
estimate.
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Raynor, it was
RESOLVED to approve the final map of the subdivision known
as "Woodbine Manor" owned by Mr. and Mrs. John Fellinger-Ihar
subject to:
1. Approval of the Suffolk County Dept. of Health.
2. Approval of the Suffolk County Dept. of Environmental
Control.
3. Lot numbers being placed on the map by the Suffolk
County Real Property Tax Agency.
4. Receipt of bond by the Town Board and receipt of
inspection fee by the Town Clerk.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Planning Board ~- -8- J~uary 30, 1978
Time Structures - Paradise by the Sound - Frederick Zeims, Roger
Rath and Howard Young appeared.
A meeting was requested by the developer with the Supt. of Highways,
the town engineer, Mr. Young and a member of the Planning Board.
Mr. Wickham agreed to this meeting. Mr. Zeims indicated that the
property had been conveyed from the corporation to the individual
and Mr. Wickham requested a letter for the file and a copy of the
deed.
Pudge site plan. Mr. William B. Smith, Mr. James Gray and George
Fisher, building inspector, appeared.
Mr. Fisher presented his figures as regards parking at the site
and this was discussed.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to recommend to the Southold Town Board approval of
the petition of Nicholas Aliano and Patricia Krupski, Case #238,
for a change of zone from "A" Residential aud Agricultural District
to "M-l" General Multiple Residence District on property located at
Cutchogue, New York, in view of the fact that it is apparent that
the petitioner must move the motel and facilities back from the
Sound as a result of substantial loss of beach through erosion.
The type of recreational use asked for is completely in accordance
with the development plan of the Town of Southold for this location.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Charles Rand. Mr. Rand and William B. Smith appeared. Brionngloid.
Mr. Raynor asked about the restrictions as to no further development.
They were in the file for no less than seven lots and the board
reviewed them. The words "minor" should be changed to "major" in
two places. Mr. Raynor remarked that the Hellman piece should be
marked as lot #7 instead of out of the subdivision. The map will
have to show the metes and bounds around the whole property for
the hearing and the filing of the map. Mr. Rand took the copy of
the declaration for correction.
Heritage Harbor - Riverside Homes - Michael Hills, Esq., appeared.
The file was reviewed and it was determined that it was in order.
Planning Board 9- J~uary 30, 1978
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to recommend to the Southold Town Board denial of
the application of North Fork Manort Inc., Case No. 237, for a
change of zone for property located at Mattituck, New York, from
"A" Residential aud Agricultural District to "B" Light Business
District because it is not in conformity with the use laid out of
development of a high speed access road and the discouragement of
business on that road is laid out in the development plan of the
Town of Southold.
Mr. Wickham stated that the original site plan is in violation
since the barrier to access to Route 27 was removed, apparently, by
the operator soon after it was erected. It is our opinion that a
business is not viable in this location because of the physical
nature of the interchange. The removal of the varrier underscores
the fact that a business cannot be operated here without direct
access to County Road 27.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Gordon, Coyle, Wall
Mr. Coyle indicated that he wanted to make a motion regarding the
imminent termination of Mr. Wickham's term of office because he is
approaching 70 years of age. Mr. Wickham requested Mr. Raynor to
chair the meeting.
Mr. Coyle made a motion that the Board goes on record
requesting the Town Board to take the steps to keep Mr. Wickham
on the Board another year. Mr. Gordon seconded the motion and it
was carried.
Mr. Raynor returned the chair to Mr. Wickham.
Mr. Coyle made a motion that the Planning Board concurs with
the action of the Town Board supporting the position of the Village
of Greenport as regards the Mascony Ferry. At the same time, the
Planning Board would like to see better ferry service. Mr. Gordon
seconded the motion and it was carried.
On motion made by Mr. Wall, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to grant final approval to the map of minor
subdivision of Hay Harbor Hills owned by Thomas 0. Pyle and Regina
S. Pyle and located at Fishers Island and authorize the chairman
to sign the map.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Planning Board - -10- J~nuary 30, 1978
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to grant approval to the sketch map of the property
of Frank Murphy, Section 1 at Laurel, said map dated December 7,
1977.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Gordon, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED to set 7:30 p.m., Tuesday, February 14, 1978 at the
Tow~ Hall, Main Road, Southold, New York, as the time and place
for a public hearing on the question of the approval of the minor
subdivision of Frank Murphy~ Section I at Laurel, New York.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Long Pond Estates. Lawrence M. Tuthill, town engineer, stated that
his original recommendations were not complied with. The
developer is to be informed of this.
Mr. Gordon made a motion, seconded by Mr. Coyle and carried
to approve the minutes of the meeting of January 10, 1978 as
submitted.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED to rescind the resolution of denial dated October
19, 1977, for the subdivision known as "Heritage Harbor" in view
of the completed file.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Wall, it was
RESOLVED to grant approval to the final map of the subdivision
known as "Heritage Harbor" subject to the receipt of the bond and
inspection fee by the Southold Town Board.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Raynor, Coyle, Gordon, Wall
Planning Board - -11- - January 30, 1978
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon, it was
RESOLVED to grant approval to the map of the subdivision of
land of which Arlene Marvin is the contract vendee, located at
Mattituck, New York, subject to:
1. Provisions being made to control erosion on the lots
facing Mill Road.
2. Covenants and restrictions being filed in te Suffolk
~ounty Clerk's Office as to no further subdivision.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Wickham, Coyle, Raynor, Gordon, Wall
Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Gordon and
carried that the meeting be adjourned. Meeting adjourned at
ll:10 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Murie~Z~Brusb~, Secretary
Southold T~4wn Planning Board
~n Wickham, Chairman