HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-09/18/1975Southold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. 11971
TELEPHONE 765-1313
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Moisa
Alfred Grebe
Henry Raynor
Frank Coyle
MINUTES
Southold Town Planning Board
September 18, 1975
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board
was held September 18, 1975, at 7:30 p.m. at the Town Clerk's
Office, Main Road Southold.
Present were Vice-Chairman Henry Moisa and members
Henry Raynor and Alfred Grebe. Mr. Coyle arrived at 9:00
p.m. Absent was John Wickham, Chairman.
7:30 p.m. Public Hearing on map of minor subdivision of
Doebler. Present - Gary Olsen, Esq., Mrs. Doebler and some
other interested parties not identified.
Mr. Moisa opened the public hearing at 7:30 p.m. with Mr.
Raynor reading the Notice of Hearing.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to Section 276 of
the Town Law, Public Hearing will be held by the Southold
Town Planning Board at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road,
Southold, New York, in said town on the 18th day of September,
1975 on the question of the following:
7:30 p.m. Approval of a minor subdivision of property
owned by Errol W. Doebler situated at Southold in the Tow~
of Southold, County of Suffolk and State of New York, bounded
and described as follows:
BEGINNING at a point on the westerly line of Hobart
Road 696.23 feet southerly along said westerly line from the
Main Road, said point of beginning being the southeasterly
corner of land of Edson; from said point of beginning running
along said westerly line of Hobart Road S. 27° 06' 10" E.
146 feet to land of Gates; thence along said land S. 69° 34'
W. 50 feet, more or less, to ordinary highwater mark of Town
Creek; thence along said highwater mark southerly and then
westerly 760 feet, more or less, to land of Joost; thence along
said land of Joost seven courses: ~! N. l0° 39' 30" W. 207
feet, more or less; thence (2) N. 49' 30" E. 125.0 feet;
thence (3) N. lO° 21' 30" W. 172.35. feet; thence (4) N. 52°
40' W. 29.58 feet; thence (5) N. 4° 59' W. 20,0 feet:.thence
(6) northeasterly on a curve to the left, having a ra~us os
Planning Boar~ -2-
September 18, 1975
36.82 feet, a distance of 49.32 feet; thence (7) N. 8° 25'
50" E. 240.13 feet to said land of Edson; thence along said
land N. 84° 21' 50" E. 217.82 feet to the point of beginning.
Containing 3-1/2 acres, more or less.
Any person desiring to be heard on the above matters
should appear at the time and place above specified.
Dated: August 19, 1975
BY ORDER OF THE SOUTHOLD TOWN
PLANNING BOARD
JOHNWICKI-IAM, CHAIRMAN
Affidavit of publication was presented from the Suffolk
Weekly Times.
Mr. Moisa: We also have the same notice as printed in the
Long Island Traveler properly notarized. Checking the file,
we find things in order and as is customary, we will ask for
anyone who wishes to speak against this minor subdivision.
Hearing none, I will ask for anybody that is in favor.
Gary 01sen, Esq.: I am the attorney for the applicant. I
submitted the application back on June 23, 1975 formally
although I had appeared on several occasions prior to that.
It is a minor subdivision with only three lots; the first has
71,000 square feet, the secoud 42,000 square feet and the
third parcel is 41,000 square feet, more or less. All the
parcels more than meet the minimum town standards. Due to
the fact that the property is located on Town Creek, I
submitted an application to the New York State Department
of Environmental Conservation and received approval on that.
In view of the fact that it complies with all town standards,
I request your approval. We would be willing to place a
restrictive covenant on lot number one that we will no further
subdivide that parcel. We will give the covenant and you
can make your approval subject to that. I have discussed
the proposal for the 50 foot setback building line with Mr.
Doebler and he does not think there is any necessity for
the 50 foot setback line. It will make the parcels extremely
narrow and we should leave where the houses on lots one and
two are located up to the Building Department. Also, anyone
that would build on one or two would still need a permit
from the New York State DEC. It isn't like a bank on the
Sound that caves in. It would very seriously hamper where
any structure could be built on the property. With that
change and what we have discussed I would respectfully request
that you approve it.
Shirley Bachrach (representing the League of Women Voters):
Is there any intention to dredge or bulkhead?
Mr. Olsen: I don't know. Mr. Doebler doesn't have that
intention. I don't know what anyone would do in the future.
Mr. Raynor: Do you want to amend your map?
Planning Boara -3- September 18, 1975
Mr. 01sen: All the maps show the minor subdivision without
the setback line.
Mr. Moisa: Your final map shows the 50 foot setback line.
Mr. Olsen: I am asking that the Board approve it without
the 50 foot setback line.
Mr. Moisa: What did Mr. Doebler feel the setback should be?
Mr. 01sen: He would rather leave it up to the Building
Department. I do not think it is a Planning Board issue.
Mr. Moisa: Only when there is erosion. We try to protect
the future owners from erosion.
Mr. Olsen: I have one prospective buyer here. You would
like to leave it up to the Building Department?
Man: Yes.
Mr. Raynor: The reason it was set up was because of several
parcels we have run into problems with. County Planning
Commission established 100 foot setback from the top of
the bluff for erosion purposes on the Sound and 50 foot
throughout the bays and creeks. This is the reason for the
Board requesting the 50 foot setbacks.
Mr. Olsen: It makes the lots so narrow that the house
would have to be put close to the front property line.
The prospective buyers don't want their houses too far off
the bank. You don't get extreme high tides that would push
into a bank. Van Tuyl says it has been substantially this
was for a hundred years. He felt there was no need for the
setback. With the protection that the Building Department
is going to give since they have to approve where the house
would be located plus the protection that the New York
State DEC is going to impose because they will also before
they issue a permit have to know where the house is going
to be situated. I think those two agencies are more than
sufficient. People are paying alot of money for this
property and I don't think they should be restricted
arbitrarily.
Mr. Moisa: The reason we follow this is in the future the
Town would not be held responsible because the Planning
Board had not looked into the situation where there would
be a problem. People come and ask for aid and things of
this sort.
Mr. Olsen: I can see it in certain areas but I can't see
it here.
Mr. Moisa: We have two policies which we carry through
in the whole town.
Plauning Boara -4-
September 18, 1975
Mrs. Doebler: In ten years the tide has not come up to
the bottom of the bank. It is a very quiet creek, as you
know.
Mr. Moisa: We will take that under consideration. Is
there anyone else that would like to speak in favor of this?
Hearing none, I will declare the hearing closed and we will
come to a decision at a later date.
Motion was made by Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Raynor
and carried to approve the minutes of the meetings of
August 18 (regular); meeting with the Town Board on the
"Olinda" and the meeting at Fishers Island both held on
A~gust 20, 1975.
Babcock & Rimmler. Gary Olsen, Esq. appeared and renewed
request for a public hearing. The Planning Board is waiting
for the recommendations of Lawrence Tuthill, Engineer, and
Raymond Dean, Superintendent of Highways.
Greenfields. Gary 01sen, Esq. appeared.
Mr. Olsen asked the Planning Board to accept the bond
presented for the roads. It names the record owners as well
as other co-principles. An affidavit has been given as to
who the record owners are and he feels the bond is more
than sufficient. Mr. Olsen has talked to the Town Attorney
and if the Planning Board wants the bond changed it should
be given to him. Mr. Raynor read the letter from Mr. Tasker
about the co-principles and the bond being returned and
said we should follow the advice of the Town Attorney. Mr.
Olsen will see if he can get the Town Attorney to write a
letter saying the bond is sufficient.
Macari. Gary Olsen, Esq. appeared.
A copy of this map will be sent to the Superintendent
of Highways for his recommendations as to where the road
comes out of the subdivision because it is a bad stretch
of highway. Mr. Olsen requested that the Planning Board
review it so by the next meeting some constructive comments
can be made. He will send two additional copies of the map.
Planning Board -5-
September 18, 1975
Laurelwood Estates, Section II. Gary Olsen, Esq. appeared.
Mr. Olsen requested a copy of the recommendations of
Larry Tuthill, P. E. which are as follows:
1. That catch basins included at Woodside Lane Ext.
at junction of Wood Lane.
2. That provisions be made drain water from west side
of White Eagle Drive to recharge basins other than valley
gutters since this is the main drive.
3. That the standard recharge basin be constructed.
8:00 p.m. - Public Hearing on the final map of the subdiv-
ision known as "Soundview Acres at Orient". Mr. Raynor read
the notice of hearing.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to Section 276 of
the Town Law, Public Hearing will be held by the Southold
Tow~ Planning Board at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road,
Southold, New York, in said town on the 18th day of September,
1975 on the question of the following:
8:00 p.m. Approval of the final map of property owned
by Carl G. Hornwood known as "Soundview Acres at Orient"
consisting of a parcel of land situate, lying and being at
Orient in the Town of Southold, Suffolk County, New York,
bounded and described as follows:
BEGINNING at a point on the easterly line of 01d Main
Road, 410.72 feet northerly along said easterly line f.rom
the curved northeasterly line of the Main (State) Road, from
said point of beginning running along said easterly line of
Old Main Road, N. 8° 31' 40" W. 204.50 feet; thence N. 64°
32' 50" W. 125.08 feet to land formerly of Rose, now of N.
Pappas; thence along said last mentioned land, N. 5° 44' 10"
W. 1172.83 feet to a monument and land of Morris; thence
along said land of Morris the following two courses and
distances: (1) S. 89° 10' 00" E. 302 feet to a monument;
thence (2) N. 7° 41' 30" W. 399 feet to the ordinary highwater
mark of Long Island Sound; running thence along the ordinary
highwater mark of Long Island Sound, N. 82° 50' E. 62.94
feet to land of Orient Realty Corporation; running thence
along said land of Orient Realty Corporation, S. 13° 12'
10" E. 1848.98 feet; running thence along land of R. Tuthill
Estate, S. 87° 22' 20" W. 473.29 feet to the point or place
of beginning. Containing 16.368 acres, more or less.
Any person desiring to be heard on the above matter
should appear at the time and place above specified.
Dated: August 19, 1975
BY ORDER OF THE SOUTHOLD TOWN
PLANNING BOARD
JOHN WICXHAM, CHAIRMAN
Planning Board -6- September 18,
1975
Affidavit of publication was presented from the Suffolk
Weekly Times duly notarized.
Mr. Moisa: Looking over the checklist, the first discussion
was held on December 6th of 1973. Preliminary hearing was
held on August 5, 1974. We have reports from the Highway
Superintendent and the Highway Committee, the latter one
being March 13, 1975. Approval of the preliminary map was
given on September 16, 1974. Everything seems to be in order.
As is customary, we will ask for anyone who wishes to speak
in opposition to this subdivision. Hearing none, I will
ask for anyone who wants to speak in favor of it.
Richard J. Cron, Esq.: I am appearing on behalf of the
applicant. In light of the fact that all requirements of
this board and all other agencies of the Town have been
complied with, we respectfully request that the Board approve
the final map of "Soundview Acres at Orient".
Mr. Moisa: Does anyone else want to speak? Hearing none,
I will declare the hearing closed.
Long Pond Estates. Mr. Cron and Mr. Ernest Wilsberg appeared.
In view of the fact that all recommendations have been
complied with, this map is ready to be presented as a
preliminary submission.
Greenbriar Acres. Mr. Cron appeared.
Mr. Cron requested the recommendations of Larry Tuthill, P.E.
and Raymond Dean, Superintendent of Highways, but they have
not been received in this office as yet.
Orient Point. Mr. Cron and Mr. Ernest Wilsberg appeared.
Mr. Cron showed a possible plan to develop this property in
a cluster concept.
Ben Mendozza. Mr. Mendozza presented a map o~ his property
showing a tap street. Mr. Mendozza feels the drainage area
is really just an overflow for the catch basins to be
installed. He feels it will only drain six or seven lots
and doesn't want to put in a recharge basin and fencing as
recommended by Lawrence Tuthill, P.E. The Board will discuss
this with Mr. Tuthill and see what he says about catch
basins.
Planning Boar~ -7- September 18,
1975
Greton. Dave Horton, Bill Grebe and Gary Olsen appeared.
New profiles dated September 12, 1975 were studied. Mr.
Olsen said these were acceptable to Larry Tuthill. Public
hearing will be set when final maps are received.
Hodo~. Sound Shore Acres at Arshamomaque. Gary Olsen appeared.
It was suggested that the roads be named and the following
recommendations of Larry Tuthill, P.E. were presented, a
copy of which is to be mailed to Mr. 01sen.
1. Recommended that water mains be included.
2. Request that catch basins and leaching basins be
included at intersection of Albertson Lane and Road "A".
3. Request that catch basins and piping be included
at intersection Albertson Lane and Road "C" to drain water
to recharge basin.
Col. Ted Dowd. Gary 01sen appeared.
The following recommendations of Lawrence Tuthill, P. E.
were read and a copy will be forwarded to Mr. 01sen.
It is noted that the recharge basin has been eliminated.
It is essential that this be included to take care of the
increased run-off caused by this subdivision.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle, it was
RESOLVED to approve the sketch map of the minor subdivision
of property owned by Edward Gibbons located at Mattituck,
New York, on map dated June 12, 1975.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Raynor, Grebe, Coyle.
Simicich. Charles Cuddy appeared.
Mr. Cuddy and the Board discussed the recommendations of
the County Planning Commission as pertain to this subdivision.
They are confusing and it was suggested that Mr. Cuddy
contact the Town Attorney for clarification.
Schriever. Charles Cuddy, William aud Barbara Schriever
appeared.
Planning Board -8- September 18, 1975
The small pieces were discussed. Mr. Cuddy said what they
had intended to do was restrict these particular pieces by
indicating that they were restricted to open space and not
any development. He felt if they were conveyed out tomorrow
they would be doing exactly the same thing as is being
suggested. Mr. Raynor said it was represented that there
was enough open space without the odds and ends. Mr. Moisa
said Mr. Schriever said he would get rid of these and he
thinks it still lies in the minds of the Town Board. Mr.
Cuddy said that no matter what they would remain in open
space. Mr. Raynor said it was the oponion of the Board to
dispose of them or incorporate them back into the map. Mr.
Raynor went on to discuss the proposed covenants and
restrictions.
Mr. Raynor: In the declaration there are two mortgagees
and I take it they would also sign these declarations?
Mr. Cuddy: Yes, that is no problem.
Mr. Raynor: In Section 9 on parcel l, Setback Requirements,
the last sentence. Small open portions will have to go to
the Board of Appeals and you may not want this in your
covenants and restrictions. Section 2, Sales Activities
Permitted. Under the town regulations you can only set up
one 'for sale' sign per parcel. You can't have a real
estate business with sub-agents. Under Section 29, if you
do this there is a question os whether you establish a
subdivision line which is really getting back to what they
are talking about.
Mr. Cuddy: I think the intent was to permit even exchanges.
Mr. Ray-nor:
Appeals.
It would be subject to review of the Board of
Mr. Cuddy: If we convey out a piece the covenant would
remain on it and we would get a piece back and the covenant
would remain on the piece that we took back.
Mr. Schriever: That deals only with one particular instance.
It refers to a certain side of lot l0 to allow this exchange
to be made after the development is complete with Mrs. Vail.
Mr. Raynor: Section 30 - Open Space Requirement. 'Any
development of said premises requiring a building permit
shall also be subject to the approval of the Planning Board
of the Town of Southold.' This particular section wouldn't
come under our jurisdiction. It would be the site plan for
the location of the building on the property. Section 31 -
Water Supply Permitted. It takes in the entire block which
means all the adjoining properties which would normally
surpass the water reserves.
Mr. Cuddy: That particular paragraph was suggested to us
by the Health Department and mandated by the Suffolk County
Plauning Board -9- September 18, 1975
Department of Environmental Control. They have made one
of the most intensive water studies on this piece of land.
That is why we put it in. They are saying if there are
problems this would be very helpful to be able to tap in
to where they know there is water. They are satisfied
that there is water in here. I don't know of any objection
to these people going in here to get decent water.
Mr. Raynor: The fencing permitted would have to be amended
so it would fall within the zoning ordinance. There was
a question on the part of the Building Inspector as to the
fencing requirements not corresponding to what is in the
ordinance.
Mr. Cuddy: We tried to put in restrictions that were the
best for the development of this property. We believe
that the town law is going to supercede any covenants and
restrictions that we have and what is Town Law will have to
be obeyed.
Mr. Raynor: If you got a change of zone on a portion of
the property would it obliterate the remainder of the
property as far as your restrictions are concerned. It says
all or a portion.
Mr. Cuddy: What are we going to do about getting some
approval for a map. We have been here for awhile. This is
essentially the map we have always had and I understand now
the Town has taken a position about the lots around the
periphery. Where does it leave us?
Mr. Moisa: We can't approve it until we get something from
the Town Board.
Mr. Cuddy: I would like the Planuing Board to give approval
subject to what the town is going to do. Could we have a
resolution subject to getting the approval of the Town
Board? We certainly are going to have to comply with what
they have in mind. I would ask this Board to give us some
sort of approval so we can march in some direction. Other-
wise we could be going back and forth for a long time. We
would certainly appreciate your giving some consideration
to giving approval with the condition. It is my under-
standing that this is basically a Town Board position.
Highland Estates. Richard Lark, Esq. appeared.
Mr. Lark: This map is in substantial conformance with
what was entered into at the time preliminary approval was
obtained. I would like to request that final hearing be
waived.
Mr. Lark has presented all the papers necessary to have a
public hearing on the final map.
Planning Boara -10- September 18, 1975
Souud Road Estates. Steve Tsontakis appeared.
Larry Tuthill, P. E., recommendations under date of May 5,
1975 were read:
1. That drainage area be provided within the sub-
division.
2. That Dogwood Lane be straightened so as to provide
a safe entrance from the proposed road at Lots Nos. 5 thru 9.
3. That connections be provided to adjacent properties
of Kleinschmidt and Murphy.
4. That the park and playground are square rather
such au odd shape.
5. That water lines be included.
The Planning Board didn't see much merit in a connection to
Kleinschmidt but a connecting road should be dropped to the
west. Mr. Tsontakis requested a copy of the recommendations.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe, it was
RESOLVED to hold a public hearing on the preliminary
map of subdivision of property owned by Charles DeVoe aud
known as "Beaujolais Acres" located at Orient, New York,
map dated May 6, 1975.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Coyle, Grebe, Raynor.
Doebler. It was decided to check the legality of decreasing
the setback line or leaving it to the discretion of the
Building and State DEC before taking any action on this
minor subdivision.
On motion made by Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Raynor,
it was
RESOLVED to recommend to the Southold Town Board the
bond estimate in the amount of $77,000.00 for the subdiv-
isionknown as "Soundview Acres at Orient".
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Grebe, Coyle, Raynor.
Planning Boar~ ~ll- September 18, 1975
On motion made by Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Raynor,
it was
RESOLVED to recommend to the Southold Tow~ Board the
bond estimate in the amount of $72,000.00 for the subdiv-
ision known as "Eli~ahTs Lane Estates, Section ?".
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Grebe, Coyle, Raynor.
On motion made by Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Raynor,
it was
RESOLVED to recommend to the Southold Town Board the
bond estimate in the amount of $35,000.00 for the subdiv-
ision known as "Peconic Knolls".
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Grebe, Coyle, Raynor.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle,
it was
RESOLVED to approve the final map of the subdivision
known as "Soundview Acres at Orient" owned by Carl G.
Hornwood, subject to receipt of bond by the Southold Town
Board, receipt of inspection fee, review of Suffolk County
Planning Commission.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Grebe, Coyle, Raynor.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Coyle,
it was
RESOLVED to hold a public hearing on the final map
of the subdivision known as "Highland Estates" located at
Cutchogue, New York.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Grebe, Coyle, Raynor.
On motion made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe,
it was
RESOLVED to hold a public hearing on October 28, 1975
in the matter of the amendment of the Rules and Regulations
for the Subdivision of Land as follows:
By amending Subdivision B of Section 106-33 of Article
III of the Town of Southold Land Subdivision Regulations as
follows:
Planning Board -127 September 18, 1975
B. Improvements. Streets shall be graded and improved
with pavements, curbs and gutters, sidewalks, drainage
facilities, water mains, sewers, streetlights and street
signs, street trees and fire hydrants and/or firewells.
Firewells shall have an eight-inch casing, a ta~enty-foot
bronze screen, and shall have a pumping capacity of three
hundred fifty gallons per minute. There shall be a depth
of water of at least forty feet. There shall be a minimum
of one fire hydrant and/or firewell for each thirty dwelling
lots shown on the subdivision map. Notwithstanding the
foregoing, upon request, the Planning Board, upon written
approval of the Superintendent of Highways and the Town
Board Highway Committee, may waive, subject to appropriate
conditions, such improvements as it considers may be omitted
without jeopardy to the public health, safety and general
welfare. Pedestrian eastments shall be improved as
required by the Planning Board. Such grading and improve-
ments shall be approved as to design and specifications by
the Town Superintendent of Highways and the Town Board
Highway Committee.
By amending Paragraph 9 of Subdivision A of Section
106-42 of Article III of the Town of Southold Land Subdiv-
ision Regulations as follows:
(9) The approximate location and size of all proposed
water lines, valves, hydrauts and/or firewells, sewer lines
and fire alarm boxes; connections to existing lines or
alternate means of water supply or sewage disposal and
treatment, as provided in the Public Health Law, profiles
of all proposed water and sewer lines.
By amending Paragraph 6 of Subdivision A of Section
106-43 of Article IV of the Town of Southold Land Subdivision
Regulations as follows:
(6) An estimate as to the cost of the required improve-
ments, including, but not limited to, streets, curbing,
sanitary sewers, storm drain lines, water lines, fire
hydrants and/or firewells.
By amending Subdivision A of Section 106-43 of Article
IV of the Town of Southold Lsnd Subdivision Regulations
by adding a new paragraph to be Paragraph (8) to read as
follows:
(8) If firewells are to be installed, a copy of the
proposed agreement to be entered into with the appropriate
fire district to convey title to said firewells to the fire
district when completed, together with legal access thereto.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Grebe, Coyle, Raynor.
The next meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board will
be held October 6, 1975 with the following meeting date
October 28, 1975.
Planning Board -13-
September 18, 1975
On motion made by Mr. Rayuor, seconded by Mr. Grebe,
it was
RESOLVED to deny approval of the preliminary map of
property owned by William Schriever located at Orient
based on the fact that the Southold Town Board has not
given approval for this piece of property to be developed
in the cluster concept.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Grebe, Coyle, Raynor.
Motion was made by Mr. Coyle, seconded by Mr. Grebe
and carried that the meeting be adjourned. Meeting
adjourned at 10:30 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Muriel Brush, Secretary
Southold Town Planning Board
John ~ickham, Chairman