HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-10/28/1975Southold Town Planning Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. 11971
TELEPHONE 76571313
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Molsa
Alfred Grebe
Henry Raynor
Frank Coyle
MINUTES
Southold Town Plsnning Board
October 28, 1975
A regular meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board
was held on October 28, 1975, at 7:30 p.m. Present were
Vice-Chairman Henry Moisa, Henry Raynor and Alfred Grebe.
Not present were John Wickham and Frank Coyle.
Mr. Moisa opened the meeting at 7:30 p.m. for a
public hearing on amendments to the Rules and Regulations
for the Subdivision of Land of the Town of Southold.
Mr. Raynor read the Notice of Hearing.
NOTICE IS HEREBY GIVEN that pursuant to Town Law a
public hearing will be held by the Southold Town Planning
Board at the Town Clerk's Office, Main Road, Southold, New
York, at 7:30 p.m. on the 28th day of October, 1975 in the
matter of the smendment of the Rules end Regulations for
the Subdivision of Land of said Town as follows:
By amending Subdivision B of Section 106-33 of Article
III of the Town of Southold Land Subdivision Regulations as
follows:
B. Improvements. Streets shall be graded and improved
with pavements, curbs and gutters, sidewalks, drainage
facilities, water mains, sewers, streetlights ~nd street
signs, street trees and fire hydrants and/or firewells.
Firewells shall have an eight-inch casing, a twenty-foot
bronze screen, and shall have a pumping capacity of three
hundred fifty gallons per minute. There shall be a depth
of water of at least forty feet. There shall be a minimum
of one fire hydrant and/or firewell for each thirty dwelling
lots shown on the subdivision map. Notwithstanding the
foregoing, upon request, the Planning Board, upon written
approval of the Superintendent of Highways and the Town
Board Highway Committee, may waive, subject to appropriate
Planning Bo~ -2- O~ober 28, 1975
conditions, such improvements as it considers may be omitted
without jeopardy to the public health, safety and general
welfare. Pedestrian easements shall be improved as required
by the Planning Board. Such grading and improvements shall
be approved as to design and specifications by the Tow~
Superintendent of Highways and the Town Board Highway Committee.
By amending Paragraph 9 of Subdivision A of Section
106-42 of Article III of the Town of Southold Land Subdivision
Regulations as follows:
(9) The approximate location and size of all proposed
water lines, valves, hydrants and/or firewells, sewer lines
and fire alarm boxes; connections to existing lines or
alternate means of water supply or sewage disposal and
treatment, as provided in the Public Health Law, profiles
of all proposed water and sewer lines.
By amending Paragraph 6 of Subdivision A of Section
106-43 of Article IV of the Town of Southold Lane Subdivision
Regulations as follows:
(6) An estimate as to the cost of the required improve-
ments, including, but not limited to, streets, curbing,
sanitary sewers, storm drain lines, water lines, fire
hydrants and/or firewells.
By amending Subdivision A of Section 106-43 of Article
IV of the Town of Southold Land Subdivision Regulations by
adding a new paragraph to be Paragraph (8) to read as
follows:
(8) If firewells are to be installed, a copy of the
proposed agreement to be entered into with the appropriate
fire district to convey title to said firewells to the fire
district when completed, together with legal access thereto.
Any person desiring to be heard on the above matter
should appear at the time and place above specified.
Dated:
BY ORDER OF THE SOUTHOLD TOWN
PLANNING BOARD
JOHN WICKHAM, CHAIRMAN
Proof of publication was presented from the Suffolk Weekly
Times properly notarized, signed by Stuart C. Dorman,
Publisher.
Mr. Moisa: You have heard the reading of the public notice
You have heard street signs and so forth because it is being
fit into the subdivision regulations in the appropriate
place by the Town Attorney. As it is customary, we will
open the hearing to discussion. Is there anyone who wishes
to speak in opposition?
Planning Boal -3- 0c~ber 28, 1975
Ernest Wilsberg: How are they going to be installed? What
good is a casing if the water is too deep?
Mr. Moisa: It would be submersible.
Mr. Wilsberg: They would have to supply a submersible pump?
Mr. Moisa: In discussing this, it would have to be to the
specifications of each individual fire district as to the
type.
Mr. Wilsberg: The property owners will supply the pump in
addition to the well?
Frank Tyler:
have to.
In order to supply 350 gallongs, you would
Mr. Wilsberg: The people who are building homes will have
to pay for it.
Mr. Tyler: We have gotten hit with new developments and
we have gotten hurt where we don't have it in the budget.
We got hit at Delmar Drive, Stanley Road and another one.
It cost the fire district over $10,000 for those two wells.
Is it fair to the rest of the taxpayers?
Mr. Wilsberg: Just add it on to the price of thirty lots.
In the last ten years they have risen from $3,000 to $10,000.
It is not hitting all of us, it is hitting the younger kids.
Who can afford a house or a lot to build on today?
Mr. Tyler: You have to have it anyway. You share it with
the new owners that are going to foot part of the bill.
Mr. McBride: We set up our budget and set up our money
for the different things we need. We put so much money
into wells and systems. Along comes a developer and all of
a sudden slaps in five homes and they demand protection.
It puts us in a bind that we haven't made an appropriation
for this. It takes a year or so to set up the budget and
get money. Some districts have two or three developments.
They are throwing us completely out of whack.
Mr. Wilsberg: It is a growth area.
Mr. McBride: But we are not prepared for it. One day it
is a farm and the next it is a development. We have to
have some kind of preparation. The easiest way is have the
developer put it in. He turns it over to us and we will
take care of it.
Mr. Moisa: In some instances where there is public water,
the developer has to provide water mains and the hydrants
have to be put in. You are not penalizing one developer
against another one because the one who has to put the
water mains in has to provide the fire hydrants. In the
Planning Boa~_ -4- Oc~ober 28, 1975
long run, it equalizes.
Mr. Cron: How was it determined each thirty lots would
need a firewell?
Mr. McBride: The distance, if you put in thirty homes
200 feet apart.
Mr. Cron: If you have 150 foot lot width you would have
50 on one side and 50 on the other.
Mr. Moisa: If you centralize it you would cut it down in
half if you are just taking a straight street.
Mr. Raynor: County Planning was brought into it and they
told us the different criteria on the west end.
Mr. Cron: Southampton has it in their subdivision require-
ments but usually they submit it to the local fire depart-
ment which has ~urisdiction in the particular area. Some-
times they even waive it.
Mr. Moisa: Normally, I think you go by the regulations
of the Board of Underwriters. Naturally, insurance enters
into it. If you have water under pressure the hydrants
have to be a certain distance apart. Firewells will fall
into a different category. Water would have to be a certain
pressure all the time. Your hydrant would have to supply
a certain volume of water gallonage-wise. If there is no
one else wishing to speak against it we will consider those
that wish to speak in favor. Is there anyone that wishes
to speak in favor. Quite a bit has been said in favor.
Mr. Cron: I wasn't speaking in opposition, just asking for
information. I am not necessarily objecting at all.
Mr. Wilsberg: I am not either.
Mr. Tyler: It is a necessity as far as the fire district
is concerned. It was voted on unanimously to endorse this.
We all want it.
Mr. McBride: I would only reiterate what we said before.
I think it is necessary. I have been a commissioner for
fifteen years and I know what it is to have a budget upset.
We have no facilities for water and we are going to have
to go to a submersible well and do it at our own expense
and if another couple go in we are going to be in that much
worse situation. I think anyone that develops a farm should
help pay for it. I get sick and tired that the taxpayers
have to pay for it.
Mr. Raynor: I am sure the commissioners are aware that
any subdivisions already approved would not go into this.
It might go for two years before you see it taking effect.
Planning Bo~ -5- O~ober 28, 1975
Mr. Tyler: We don't want to get stuck any more.
Mr. Moisa: Is there anyone else that wishes to speak in
favor? There being no one else wishing to speak, I will
declare the hearing closed.
Just after this Mr. Schriever came in and asked if he could
make a statement. The hearing had been officially closed,
but Mr. Moisa suggested that he write a letter stating his
position and it would be made part of the minutes. The
letter is attached and made a part of these minutes.
Fronimakis minor subdivision.
There is one lot in this minor subdivision into three lots
which is under 40,000 square feet. It will have to go to
the Board of Appeals. There is a very old house on the
property. It is not under County Planning Commission
jurisdiction. Mr. Fronimakis took back both copies of the
map that he had submitted as alternate proposals. He
will send in six copies of the map as a sketch map for the
action of the Board.
Soundview Acres at Orient. Mr. Cron appeared.
Mr. Cron was given a copy of the map to submit to the DEC
for their action before the County Planning Department will
process this subdivision.
Mr. Cron requested that it be placed in the subdivision
rules and regulations a time limit on reviewing a sketch
of a subdivision map so a developer can proceed with the
preliminary map.
Long Pond Estates. Mr. Cron and Ernest Wilsberg appeared.
There were recommendations of Mr. Lawrence M. Tuthill, P. E.
that Mr. Cron had and the Planning Board has not yet
received a copy. The first item on the list didn't seem to
be a problem according to the thinking of Mr. Raynor and Mr.
Moisa. Item #2 isn't up to the engineer as to naming the
roads. #3 Mr. Cron doesn't consider a sharp curve. #4.
An easement should be included to drain water off to the
recharge basin. Pipes will be put in. The easement will
have to be 20 feet wide according to Mr. Raynor. This
should be checked with the regulations.
Planning Boa~ .~ -6- O~cober 28, 1975
Mr. Cron presented 12 copies of the preliminary map and
the application and requested a preliminary map hearing.
Orient Point. Mr. Cron and Mr. Wilsberg appeared.
Mr. Cron wanted to know the feeling of the Planning Board
regarding clustering this piece of property. Mr. Raynor
said he would like to set up a meeting with the Town Board
to discuss it. Mr. Cron will drop off copies of the map.
Greenbriar Acres. Mr. Cron appeared.
Mr. Cron presented recommendations of Larry Tuthill, P. E.
in communication dated September 18, 1975 which he had
gotten from the Superintendent of Highways. As the Planning
Board had not received a copy it ~as requested that Mr. Cron
leave the copy and it will be returned to him.
The following are his recommendations:
Noting that you would prefer to have the recharge basin
at lot No. 8 on Elijah's Lane opposite the proposed
recharge basin at Elijahs Lane Estates and the possible
relocation of the cul-de-sac at the 90° turn on Green-
briar Lane with a paper road to the boundary.
If this is done Woodfield should be relocated so at
not to lose a lot and lots Nos. 25 thr 29 should be
shifted with possible exchange of the park and play-
ground with lot 24.
Also elimination of piping along Greenbriar Drive and
change of grading with catch and leaching basins at
the cul-de-sac.
It was decided to request that Mr. Tuthill be present at the
next meeting and review Greenbriar Acres. Woodfield Road
will have to be discussed.
Mr. Grebe made a motion, seconded by Mr. Raynor and
carried that the minutes of the meetings of September 18,
1975 and October 6, 1975 be approved.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Grebe,
it was
Planning Boal -7- 0c~0er 28, 1975
RESOLVED to have a public hearing on the preliminary
map of Sound Road Estates at Mattituck, such public hearing
to be held November 17, 1975.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Grebe, Raynor.
George E. Edwards Estate.
Mrs. Hale had requested information on whether or not
she could make a casual sale of an acre of her property or
it would be in the best interest to file a minor subdivision
map as a right-of-way is involved. It was the consensus of
the Board that Mrs. Hale should file for a minor subdivision.
Xlaffky.
The following information was directed to be sent
upon request of Mr. Albert W. Albertson.
At a regular meeting of the Southold Tow~ Plarnaing
Board held October 28, 1975 the proposed map for the minor
subdivision of land of Klaffky dated September 9, 1975 was
reviewed.
There appears to be sufficient acreage to constitute
a four-lot minor subdivision. However, there is a question
as to the property lines concerning lot number three. The
structure shown on lot number three if under new construction
would be in variance to the zoning ordinance.
In a minor subdivision there can be no more than four
lots. Therefore, covenants and restrictions will have to
be drawn up that there will be no further subdivision as to
lot number four. A sample of the form we require is at
the office.
The whole subdivision will be subject to the rules and
regulations for the subdivision of land of the Town of
Southold.
On motion made by Mr. Moisa, seconded by Mr. Raynor,
it was
RESOLVED to approve the preliminary map of the
subdivision known as "Beaujolais Acres" owned by Charles
DeVoe and located in Orient, New York.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa,Raynor, Grebe.
Planning Boa~ ~ -~- 0ct~oer 28, 1975
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Grebe,
it was
RESOLVED to grant approval to the final map of the
subdivision known as "Highland Estates" located at
Cutchogue, subject to receipt of bond, inspection fee and
submission to the County Planning Commission.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Raynor, Grebe.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Grebe,
it was
RESOLVED to hold a public hearing on the preliminary map of
subdivision known as Long Pond Estates located at Southold,
on December l, 1975, subject to receipt of information from
Mr. Cron, attorney for the developers, as to what section he
wants to present.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Raynor, Grebe.
On motion made by Mr. Raynor, seconded by Mr. Grebe,
it was
RESOLVED to refer the drainage problem on the major
subdivision of Babcock & Rimmler to the Town Attorney to
determine the town's obligation as to the roads and
drainage.
Vote of the Board: Ayes: Moisa, Raynor, Grebe.
Sound Shore Acres (Hodor).
Roads will have to be named on the subdivision map.
Determination will have to be made by the State DEC as
to the pond on the property because of the Freshwater
Wetlands Act. If this pond is natural, the subdivision
will have to be built around it.
Luglio. Mr. Luglio and another gentleman appeared.
Mr. Luglio has made an offer to Dalchet regarding the
road connection. Road names will have to be changed.
It should be shown on the map how much is meadowland.
The Planning Board would like to know the results on
test well #4° The Board requested that Mr. Luglio would
let the Board know when an agreement has been reached with
Dalchet.
Planning Boa~_ -9- ~ctober 28, 1975
San Simeon. St. Peter's Lutheran Church Retirement Home.
Pastor Coleman and Mr. George Koch appeared.
Mr. Henry Raynor read the following letter under date of
October 17, 1975.
Dear Henry:
M_rs. Brush has sent me a copy of the site plan of the above
project.
In view of the small scale of the plan, the lack of dimen-
sions, and zone district boundaries and property lines, it
is very difficult to ascertain whether the plan complies
in all respects with the Zoning Ordinance.
With respect to your question as to the length of the build-
ings, in the absence of a definition for "length" of the
building in the ordinance, it would seem logical to me that
the length would have to be construed as the longest dimen-
sion of the building (not measured on the diagonal). All
dimensions in the ordinance such as lot width and lot depth
are measured from the front to the rear or from side to side
and not on a diagonal. To attempt to determine the length
of a building by measuring on the diagonal would be a unique
method not used in the ordinance for any other measurements.
Under the Zoning Ordinance a building is defined as "any
combination of materials forming any construction". If the
two wings of the building are cornaected by a passageway or
any other type of construction then both portions of the
building would have to be construed as one building since
they are connected together. If on the other hand the two
structures are deemed to be separate buildings, then under
the provisions of the Zoning Ordinance there must be a
minimum distance between them equal to two times the height
of the highest building.
I have not made any calculations as to whether or not
sufficient land area has been set aside for each dwelling
unit.
A cursory examination of the site plan would indicate that
there is not adequate parking spaces provided nor are they
located within 200 feet of each unit.
At the north end of the site, a group of structures is shown
designated as "the Inn". This would apparently be deemed a
hotel or motel under the Zoning Ordinance and such use can
only be permitted in the M-1 zone by special exception by the
Board of Appeals. Here again a cursory examination indicates
that there are inadequate parking facilities.
In the southwest corner of the site appears a structure
designated as "administration/motel building". In this
Planning Boa~ -10- ~ tober 28, 1975
regard, the land area and parking requirements of the
ordinance should be checked to ascertain if this structure
meets such requirements.
I am returning to you herewith the site plan.
/s/ Robert W. Tasker
(Town Attorney)
Mr. Koch requested a copy of the minutes of the meeting
of October 6, 1975 as they pertain to the site plan of San
Simeon. He also requested a copy of Mr. Tasker's letter.
Discussion was held on the roads in the development. Mr.
Koch indicated that the roads would be 30 feet wide with
finger roads or walkways of l0 feet in width. This was
shown on an overlay which Mr. Koch said he would have
printed and submit the required number of copies to the
Planning Board.
Mr. Koch said these 10 foot roads would be indicated as
walkways and he felt they were wide enough because they
would only be for emergency access.
21 feet was allowed on the north side of the property on
County Road 27 for the possible widening of that road.
There is also a fifty foot setback from the County Road.
Mr. Raynor said that Mr. Tasker's main concern was the "Inn".
Pastor Coleman said Mr. Tasker's suggestion was to allow
the right amount of acreage that they would take if standing
individually. They are being connected because of the
function.
If a variance is going to be requested for the "Inn" they
will have to go before the Board of Appeals.
The Attorney for San Simeon will have to draw up the
restrictive covenants.
Mr. Koch said they had been in touch with Charles Barnett
of the Soil Conservation Service and he will be getting a
copy to go over it drainage-wise.
Mr. Raynor said front profiles will be required and both
sides if they vary.
It was stated that the square footage of the smalle~unit
will be about 930 square feet.
Mr. Raynor said that among other things the Planning Board
will have to know the rough roofing materials, type of
flashing, windows, panelling construction, etc.
Planning Boa~ -11- ~tober 28, 1975
A check will have to be made to see if sliding doors are
alright or if they must swing out.
It was asked if they were having module pre-fab type and
the answer was "No, built." When asked about air-conditioning,
the answer was they could have it but not necessarily. Some
people don't like air-conditioning and some people need it.
Mr. Koch left two copies of the specs.
Mr. Koch said the density is eight percent below maximum
and if they acquire the LILCO piece, they will be ten percent
below maximum.
It was decided to hold a meeting with some members of the
Board of Appeals and the Planning Board, Mr. Koch and
Pastor Coleman on this matter. A date will be set up for
a work meeting on this.
Motion was made by Mr. Grebe, seconded by Mr. Raynor and
carried to adjourn the meeting. Meeting was adjourned at
10:45 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Muriel Brush, Secretary
Wickham, Chairman
Southold Town Planning Board
Town Clerk's Office
Main Road
Southold, N. Y. 11973
October 28, 19~5
Gentlemen:
I wish to have this letter included with the record of the public
hearing held at 7:30 p.m. on the above date tn the matter of the amendment
of the Rules and Regulatlons for the Subdivision of Land of said Town.
I am tn opposition to the amendment proposed for the various reasons I
offer below. I sympathize with the Fire Comissioners but I ftrmly believe
that their solution ts economically unfeasible in the long run and will
be too slow in providing relief in the short run.
The amendment deals with two quite different proposals although they
both provlde sources of water. One ts for fire hydrants connected to
exlsttng water mains, In our case those of the Vlllage of Greenlight, and
the other ts for fire wells. No distinction ts made between wells to be
drafted by the fire trucks and wells to be supplied with pumps but I gather
from the dlscusslon at the meetlng that the Fire Com~lsstoners had in mlnd
both types. The economics of these two proposals are so different that I
shall deal with them separately.
First let me dispose of the matter of fire hydrants. I believe I
am correct tn statlng that no Fire Department tn the Town of Southold now
or tn the foreseeable future will be operating entirely within an area
served throughout with fire hydrants and public water. This would be true
whether or not another development were every granted in the Town of Southold.
Some areas are too remote to be served by public water economically. This
means that every Fire Department in the Town must be capable of operating
without flre hydrants unllke the City of New York for example. Since every
Fire Department must, of necessity, be capable of operating outside the area
of public water~ it follows logically that they can serve additional such
areas as they now serve the existing areas without hydrants.
But fire hydrants are always installed on public water mains slmply to
flush out the pipes if for no other reason. When the mains are tnstalled~
the hydrants are supplied at no charge by the Village of Greenport for
Installatlon by the developer so the only cost to the developer is the
few fittings required to connect them to the main. Once tnstalled~ the
hydrants are paid for by ~he Fire Dlstrict tn the form of a hydrant rent
of s~aethtng llke $65 per year~ maybe more now. Never-the-less the burden
Southold Town Planning Board (continued)
October 28~ 1975
on the developer is negligible. I don't know of any matns that have been
installed without hydrants where they serve any significant area. Hydrants
have Just been automatic with public water, and public water is automatic
wherever it is available due to the requirements of the Board of Health.
So adding the amendment to provide for fire hydrants is Just an exeretse
in bureaucracy which serves no purpose.
The proposal to require fire wells where there ts no public water ts
quite another matter. The arguments here deal both with physics and with
economics. As proposed, such flee wells shall deliver 350 gallons per
minute and have at least forty feet of water tn the well with a 20 foet
screen using an eight inch casing. In my experience, if good material
was found in the well~ sqch a screen would deliver that quantity of water.
With poor material it certainly would not. No doubt there are areas where
the exact specifications could be followed to produce the destred~tresult.
Now to the physics of fire wells. At sea-level atmospheric pressure
will support a column of water 33.9 feet high if the top of the column
is completely evacuated. But the top cannot be completely evacuated since
water evaporates and thus has a vapor pressure. This vapor pressure at
60 degrees is about equal to the pressure of a water column of 0.6 feet~
so the actual~limit on the depth from which water can be pumped is 33.3 feet.
Practically~ the pumps available are limited to something like 20 to 28
feet~ say 25 feet for purposes of illustration, This is the virtual depth
tn the well from the actual height of the pump. When mounted in a fire
truck the pump is three feet above the ground so we should allow a virtual
depth in the well of 22 feet. The Virtual depth in the well is that depth
to which the water in the well would fall at the flow rate being pumped
when the well is vented to the atmosphere. For a well being pumped by a
pipe within the casing, this would be the observed depth of the water during
the pumping. A subn~rstble pump ts a good illustration of this. The
water depth~in the well may fall many feet when the pump is working and
this must be taken into account on every well, even those drafted by a
fire truck. Assume for purposes of illustration that this drop during
pumping might be six feet~ for an additional reduction on the practical
static water depth for a fire well to about 16 feet below grade. Slightly
greater depths are possible at reduced flow rates, or where exceptional
material is found in the well.
Southold Town Planning Board (continued)
October 28, 1975
So we have established that the static water level tn a well cannot
be lower than about 16 feet from the surface of the ground if the well ts
to be drafted by a fire truck. We have also established that there is no
purpose in requiring the top of the screen to be deeper tha~ 25 feet below
the surface of the ground since no practical pump would ever draw the
water table down to that depth drafttng from a position three feet above
the surface of the ground. A depth of water,:tn the well of 40 feet using
a 20 foot screen means 20 feet of water over the screen. Such a specification
has no ~engtneertng basis in the case of a drafted well and should be
specified as 25 feet minimum from the surface to the top of the screen.
There ts a very substantial part of the Town that exceeds 16 feet
in elevation, or even 19 feet to allow for the crowning of the water table
away from the shore line. Thus the very areas that usually present the
greatest difficulty in finding natural sources of water are the same areas
that cannot be served by the ordinary fire well drafted by a fire truck.
There are areas that have such poor water-bearing material that even though
the elevation is reasonable, the fire wells cannot be made to deliver
anything like 350 gallons per minute. And there are areas that contain
dissolved chemicals in the water that readily plate out on the screens
and plug the wells. Village Lane area tn Orient ts one example.
If a requirement is made for fire wells regardless of cost, then
for areas having elevations over 16 feet or so, submersible pumps would
have to be provided and maintained. This would require at least 18 bp.
units just to feed the fire truck, would require a three-phase service
to be established and maintained -- a major installation for stand-by use.
Not only wt~ the initial cost be high, but the maintenance would be
substantial. The wells would have to be serviced from t~me to time,
the pumps would have to be operated and tested and then replaced from
time to time. The expense to the Fire District would mount and mount
as these Installations were turned over to them. Such installations
are appropriate for water companies but not Fire Districts.
Southold Town Planning Board (continued)
October 28, 1975
East Marion Fire District has already discovered the solution to
the problem of water supply and Orlent Fire District has copied it. Both
have 10 wheel fire trucks with a tank capacity of about 2500 gallons.
Since Orient has taken delivery on their tank truck, there has not been
a fire that has required drafting water from a source within range of
the fire. If one well were available in the Fire District with which to
fill the tanker raptdly~ any house fire could be handled adequately -~
and it ls house fires we are dealing with in particular here. If every
Fire District had such a tanker~ then by mutual aid any fire could be
handled wlthout any hydrants or flre wells. Only large col~lerical
buildings and dense business areas require unlimited sources of watery
and neither are the subject of thts amendment.
Such a tanker truck can be purchased for say $60,000 including enough
chrome to lead any parade. The truck can be expected to serve for 20 years
tn our departments giving an annual cost of about $3,000 per year plus
interest a~maintenance. The cost of maintaining ten fire wells would
easily average this over an extended period of time. Making certain the
truck is in operating condition at all times is relatively simple compared
to keeping track of tens or hundreds of fire wells. The truck will provide
Immediate results and will cover all residential areas,new and old. Since
a truck of some capacity ts neceasary anyway, the additional cost of the
tank capacity is relatively small, further supporting the practicality
of my proposal.
As to the matter of who is paying the bill for the fire protection~
it is an established ~act that the new houses pay relatively more in taxes
for the services received than the older exlsting houses~ whether it is
for schools, fire protection~ or any other service. Logically the economy
of scale In fire protection should mean that the more new houses put on
the tax rolls~ the lower the fire district tax rate for everyone. If this
is not the case~ then the fault ltes with the management of the fire
district and not the activities of the developer. Inflation has severely
affected the price of fire trucks and fire houses and other things the
Fire Districts must purchase. But keep In mind that it will also affect
the cost of maintaining wells in the future as well,
October 28, 1975
Southold Town Planning Board (concluded)
The Southh~d Town Planning Board, belng a more select body and a
higher level in government, has an even greater responsibility to help
control the ever-mounting cost of gover~nt than a Board of Fire
Commissioners who are generally more responsive to their troops than
to the taxpayers. This unbridled effort to st~ck the developer with
everything the law allows is rapidly burdening our local governments
with more burden than we, as taxpayers, are gotng to be able to support.
It is fine to think that anything that we can get from the developer
will spare the taxpayer additional cost, but when that beach frontage,
that community recreational area, that fence around the open sump, or
that new ftre well are turned over to the taxpayer, let's make certain
that the continuing cost of maintaining and serVicing that beautiful
gift from the developer (if you want to call it that) is worth the
cost to the taxpayer. A beach front or a park that isn't properly
maintained at least continues to exist as a valuable piece of real
estate for the future when the taxpayers may be able to afford to
keep it available for public use and enjoyment. But a fire well that
isn't maintained ls absolutely worthless. It doesn't serve any immediate
purpose and the older it gets the less valuable are the parts that
remain. In other words it depreciates and that depreciation has to be
carried by the taxpayers if anything of value is to be reallzedo
To sum up my opposition to this amendment, the requirement for
fire hydrants where public water ts available ts unnecessary though
harmless. The requirement for fire wells is not economically justified,
ts impractical tn a great many areas, and will result tn an unbearable
tax burden in the years ahead if such a course is followed. The analogy
with the French Magtnot Line seems appropriate here. Although built at
great cost to the taxpayers w~th a noble purpose, it was butlt to serve
a need already past and never had any effect on the outcome of World War II
for which it was supposedly designed. Today it sits in ruin. Let's not
make the same mistake here.
Sincerely yours~
William W. $¢hriever
Main Rd.
Orient, N. Y. 11957