HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-03/19/2008James F. King, President
Jill M. Doherty, Vice-President
Peggy A. Dickerson
Dave Bergen
Bob Ghosio, Jr.
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BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Minutes
Wednesday, March 19, 2008
6:00 PM
Present were: James King, President
Jill Doherty, Vice President
Peggy Dickerson, Trustee
Dave Bergen, Trustee
Bob Ghosio, Trustee
Pat Finnegan, Town Attorney
Elizabeth Cantrell, Clerk-Typist
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Town Hall
53095 Route 25
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone (631) 765-1892
Fax (831) 765-6841
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JUN 1 9 2008
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NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, April 9, 2008 at 8:00 AM
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, April 16, 2008 at 6:00 PM
WORKSESSION: 5:30 PM 19, 2008.
TRUSTEE KING: Good evening, folks, my name is Jim King, I have the
pleasure being the chairman of this Board. I would like to
introduce everybody that is here.
To my far left is Trustee Dave Bergen; next to him is Peggy
Dickerson, Trustee; Jill Doherty is our vice-chair; myself;
Board of Trustees
March 19, 2008
Elizabeth Cantrell is with us tonight, she is filling in for Lauren
Standish; Bob Ghosio is our other trustee. And to my far right is
Kieran Corcoran, our attorney, he's our legal assistant tonight
and; we have Wayne Galante keeping track of what everybody says.
Jack McGreevy is here from the CAC.
CAC is the Conservation Advisory Council. They go out and do
almost the same inspections we do. They give us their input on how
they think things should be handheld at the site, different
recommendations.
With that, we'll get going. The next field inspection,
Wednesday, April 9, eight o'clock in the morning.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Motion to approve.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE KING: Regular meeting will be April 16 at 6:00; work
session at 5:30.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Motion to approve.
TRUSTEE KING: Second?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE KING: Motion to approve the minutes of October 3 and
November 14.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: I gave them to Liz. There are a few minor typos that
I checked off and highlighted and changed in the minutes. They are
simple typos.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I had E-mailed some changes, same thing, we
probably found the same ones. I found some simple typos also. I
E-mailed them to Wayne
TRUSTEE KING: Motion to approve those minutes.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: So moved
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
I. MONTHLY REPORTS:
TRUSTEE KING: The Trustees monthly report for February, 2008. A
check for $5,741.24 was forwarded to the Supervisor's office for
the General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES:
TRUSTEE KING: Public notices are posted on the Town Clerk's
Board of Trustees 3 Mazch 19, 2008
bulletin board for review.
III. STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWS:
TRUSTEE KING: We have a number of environmental quality reviews.
Resolved that the Board of Trustees of the Town of Southold hereby
finds that the following applications more fully described in
Section VI Public Hearings Section of the Trustee agenda dated
Wednesday, March 19, 2008, are classified as Type II Actions
pursuant to SEQRA Rules and Regulations and are not subject to
further review under SEQRA.
We'll list those in the minutes.
Daniel Hume -SCTM#83-2-9.1
John Elick - as Trustee -SCTM#95-1-5
Paul & Cheryl Ragusa -SCTM#50-1-6
Robert Meyer -SCTM#6-1-12.1
Stirling Harbor Shipyard at Greenport, Inc. - SCTM#43-3-2
Lloyd Kaplan -SCTM#50-2-3
Ira Nagel -SCTM#104-9-14
William Gaillard -SCTM#9-3-5
Fishers Island Ferry District -Fox Lane
Mary Ann Mears -SCTM#116-5-12
Cleaves Point POA -SCTM#35-6-30
Pirate's Cove Marina, Inc. -SCTM#10-3-22
Fishers Island Yacht Club -SCTM#10-1-9
Hay Harbor Club -SCTM#9-3-1
Linda Borden -SCTM#9-9-27.4
Educational and Cultural Fund (Santorini Beachcomber Motel)
SCTM#83-2-1,2&17.2
Michael & Heather Gill -SCTM#115-11-9
Lewis Topper -SCTM#123-6-13
Spiro Geroulanos -SCTM#104-9-13
Ann G. Dearborn - SCTM#4-3-1
TRUSTEE KING: Motion to approve that resolution?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Second?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
IV. RESOLUTIONS -ADMINISTRATIVE PERMITS:
TRUSTEE KING: We'll get right into the meat of things, I guess.
The following resolutions -- this was left over from the
Board of Trustees 4 Mazch 19, 2008
meeting we had last month. The public hearing is closed. We have a
resolution prepared for this.
This is on behalf of JOHN NICKLES CIO BEIXEDON ESTATE PROPERTY
OWNERS ASSOCIATION.
I'll read the resolution because the information that is in
the first page is in this resolution, so there is no sense in doing
it twice.
Whereas Suffolk Environmental Consulting on behalf of
JOHN NICKLES C/O BEIXEDON ESTATE PROPERTY OWNERS ASSOCIATION
applied to Southold Town Trustees for a permit under provisions of Chapter 97,
now Chapter 275 of the Southold Town Code, Wetland Ordinance of the
Town of Southold, application dated December 5, 2003; whereas said
application was referred to the Southold Town CAC for their
findings and recommendations; whereas a public hearing was held by
the Town Trustees with respect to said application on March 24,
2004, at which time all interested persons were given an
opportunity to be heard; and whereas the Board members personally
reviewed and familiarized themselves with the premises in question
and the surrounding area; and whereas the Board considered all the
testimony and documentation submitted concerning this application;
and whereas the Board found the structure complied with the
standards set forth in Chapter 97, now 275, of the Southold Town
Code; and whereas the Board determined that the project as proposed
would not affect the health, safety and general welfare of the
people of the Town; and whereas on March 24, 2004, the Board of
Trustees of the Town of Southold resolved to approve the
application of John Nickles care of Beixedon Estate Property Owners
Association to remove and replace the existing northern timber
bulkhead, timber return replaced inkind/inplace, ten feet plus or
minus linear feet. Westerly bulkhead run, replaced inkind/inplace,
254 plus or minus linear feet; replace 42 linear feet
inkind/inplace easterly bulkhead run reduced to a single groin and
decreased in length by 30 feet to measure 278 plus or minus linear
feet in length. Southern timber bulkhead replace inkind/inplace 81
plus or minus linear feet, easterly bulkhead run replaced inkind/inplace
78 linear feet.
All work must be done in accordance with approved plans
prepared by Suffolk Environmental Consulting last dated April 1,
2004. All remaining debris shall be completely removed from the
area to an approved upland area for disposal. Whereas on December
21, 2005, the Board of Trustees granted applicant cone-year
extension of the 2004 wetlands permit, and; whereas on or about
October 25, 2006, Justice Cohalan of the Supreme Court of the
County of Suffolk issued a decision upholding the Board's grant of
the permit to applicant. Whereas the applicant failed to secure
Board of Trustees
March 19, 2008
further extensions of time for the permit granted by the Board,
causing such permit to expire and thus necessitating a new
application for the previously approved activity. And whereas the
applicant is permitted further activity by the Army Corps of
Engineers, the New York State DEC and New York State Department of
State; and whereas on February 13, 2008, Southold Town CAC resolved
to support the present application; whereas on February 26, 2008,
the LWRP coordinator recommended that the activity to be found to
be a minor action exempt from review under chapter 268 of the Town
Code and; whereas on February 27, 2008, a public hearing was held
on the application and public comment was taken; and whereas the
Board members have conducted additional site visits to the subject
property and; whereas the Board has considered the public comments
submitted in writing and expressed at the public hearing.
Now therefore be it resolved the Board of Trustees of the Town
of Southold approved the application of John Nickles c/o Beixedon
Estate Property Owners Association to remove and replace the
existing northern timber bulkhead, timber return replaced
inkind/inplace ten feet plus or minus linear feet; westerly
bulkhead run replaced inkind/inplace 254 linear feet, replace 42
linear feet inkind/inplace; easterly bulkhead run reduced to a
single groin and decreased in length by 30 feet to measure 278
linear feet in length; southern timber bulkhead replace
inkind/inplace 81 plus or minus linear feet; easterly bulkhead
replaced inkind/inplace 78 linear feet. All work must be done in
accordance with the approved plans prepared by Suffolk
Environmental Consulting last dated April 1, 2004. All remaining
debris shall be completely removed from the area to an approved
upland area for disposal.
Be it further resolved aten-foot non-turf buffer is to
be maintained along the full length of the bulkheaded area
approximately 254 linear feet in length.
And the other note I would like to make in this, all this
construction is with plastic bulkheading. It's not treated timber
bulkheading. It's all vinyl plastic Shore Guard materials.
I'll make a motion to approve this resolution. Do I have a
second?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Number iwo, ROGER FLORE requests an Administrative
Permit for the existing 6x27' second-story deck and 16x27' deck
attached to the existing dwelling, and for the existing 10x16'
detached deck. Located: 1555 Fleetwood Road, Cutchogue.
I went out and looked at this and what I want to do is, all we
Boazd of Trustees
Mazch 19, 2008
are addressing in this permit request is just the decking. And I
measured it out and I just want to make sure that it's accurately
reflected here in the plans.
What was listed as a 10x16' deck that cantilevers out over the
bank is actually 10'x17'10", and there is two benches at seven foot
long by one-and-one-half feet wide. So I have no problem
recommending approval of this but I just want to make sure the
plans accurately reflect what is there.
Sir, are you here --
MR. FLORE: I'm Roger Flore. I just bought the home last month and I
was told I had to come down to extend the permit, I take it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Do you have any objections to amending it so it
accurately reflects what is there?
MR. FLORE: I think on the plan I had, it was ten -- is that what
you said, 10x17'?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The one I had was 10x16.
MR. FLORE: This one was submitted a while back. I have a copy
here. It's the same one.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I crossed out 16 and put 17'10". Because I measured
it out. That way it's --
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: He's saying there is an inaccuracy and he
remembered it. That's all.
MR. FLORE: Okay, fine.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So what I would do is make a motion to approve this
Administrative Permit, if you just submit a new survey, when you
have the survey done for the property, for the sale, because this
is an old survey.
MR. FLORE: It's been done.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: A new survey has been done?
MR. FLORE: We closed on the property three or four weeks ago.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Okay, because I'm looking at a survey that's in the
file here that does not have a date. It was cut off,
unfortunately, by the copy machine. May 4, and then we don't have
a year here. William and Janet Walsh?
MR. FLORE: Yes. Is that the one with the dock on it as well?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: This doesn't have a dock on it. That is a plan
approved for a dock. This is a survey.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: This one has it accurately.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: It's written in 10x16. It's actually -- okay.
What we can do is just write it in on this one.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Why don't we get a copy.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: It's the same thing. He has the very same thing.
Again, his is 10x17 and it's 10x17'10". We are just putting it on
the plan so he doesn't have to get a new survey.
I make a motion to approve this.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Did we want to put the description of the stairs?
Board of Trustees
March 19, 2008
MR. FLORE: I'm coming later for that on the dock. I'm on the list
again.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Sorry, I thought that was -- thank you.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I think this is, because the other one is a
transfer of a permit. This one is just, this is for an
Administrative Permit, so I think we should put the stairs in on
this so it can all be done on this, and that way we don't have to
do anything to the transfer of the permit when we get to that
location.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: That's what I thought we were going to do.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Also what we want to do is add the stairs, which I
measured out, going down the -- there were two landings there;
five foot and five-and-a-half by 4'10" with nine steps between
them. The first one and the second, and eight steps to the lower one.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So the stairs as per the survey?
MR. CORCORAN: You can actually do the transfer first. Do the
transfer right now then amend it or do the administrative on it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The transfer is listed as number ten under
Applications for Amendments Extensions and Transfers
MR. CORCORAN: Because he can't amend somebody else's permit. He
has to first have it transferred to him and have whatever changes
done to his own permit.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Then I would like to make a motion to table this.
MR. CORCORAN: You can do the transfer now, just do it out of order.
TRUSTEE KING: Why don't we just do ten now.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That's what I'm saying, we'll table number two now.
MR. CORCORAN: You don't need a motion. It's not a public hearing
or anything right now. Just handle the transfer then do whatever
changes you are going to do with it.
TRUSTEE KING: We'll just jump to number ten.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We'll jump to number ten under Roman numeral five,
Application for Amendments, Extensions and Transfers. That number
ten is to transfer permit #5053 from William Walsh to Roger Flore.
Again, I went out and looked at it. Actually what is there is less
than what is depicted on the plans. There is less structure there
than what is depicted on the plans. So given that, I make a motion
to approve this transfer.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Now, go back to number two under Roman numeral
four, the Administrative Permit we were just talking about. Now
that it's been transferred into your name, I would make a motion to
approve this Administrative Permit with the corrections of the
specific size of the deck being 10'x17'10" with two benches on it,
7x1.5' and then what is listed here as 5x27' timber stairs and landings.
Board of Trustees
March 19, 2008
MR. FLORE: That's the second-story deck.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: That's fine. The second story deck is fine. First
story deck is fine. Now I've addressed the deck that is
cantilevered out over the bluff. Now I'm trying to deal with the
stairs going down to the dock. And they were listed as 5x27 and
they are actually, the width is 4'10". It's not a big deal. It's
only two inches.
So with that I'll make a motion to approve this, just with the
amendment of the deck to the correct size including the benches.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: And to include the stairs and second-story deck and
first-story deck.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Number three, DBV Partners on behalf of ADRIAN
SAPOLLNIK requests an Administrative Permit to trim/remove trees
and brush from within the wetland buffer area. Located: 225
Lakeside Drive South, Southold.
We all looked at this and there was minimal trimming and
removal of dead trees, but we did want a 15-foot buffer. I don't
know if there is anybody here for this application. But we did
want a 15-foot buffer. Did we want to make it conditional on
coming in for a permit?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We wanted to add the phragmites to the permit
because they trimmed the phragmites as well.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Did we talk about getting a permit for a dock
and making it conditionally with this permit or not?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I just think we wanted to notify them and tell them.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Liz, do you know if we notified them of the need
for a permit?
MS. CANTRELL: Lauren was asked, if she was, I'm sure she did one.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We'll just make a note they need to be notified
they need a permit for the dock.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It's a dock that has been there for a while.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: So I'll make a motion to approve this
Administrative Permit to remove and trim trees and bushes as they
have sketched here with also a permit to trim the phragmites to 12
inches, with a 15-foot, non-turt buffer. And that's it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: And trim the phragmites by hand.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: And trim the phragmites by hand. Second?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
Board of Trustees
March 19, 2008
V. APPLICATIONS FOR AMENDMENTS/EXTENSIONSITRANSFERS:
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Number one, FRED FRAGOLA requests an Amendment to
Permit #6452 for the existing motorized boat-lift installed within
the boat basin. Located: 1145 Gull Pond Lane, Greenport.
Mr. Fragola, this has been installed already?
MR. FRAGOLA: Fred Fragola. Yes. What I said to you in the first
thing, I assembled it, I didn't finalize it, so you could see what
it looked like. It's not completed. It's not operational. It's
just simply put in place. There is no boat on it, it's never been
used. I took pictures when I was out there just in case nobody
has, so you could see what it looks like.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, because we didn't have it on our inspection
agenda, so we didn't go out and look at it.
MR. FRAGOLA: Okay.
TRUSTEE KING: Let's look at the pictures first. I kind of like to
see it in place.
MR. FRAGOLA: As far as what, Jim?
TRUSTEE KING: After it's all done, when you are done with it I
would like to take a look at it after the fact. You don't have the
capability of picking the boat up now or anything.
MR. FRAGOLA: No, it's just a major undertaking. It's really more
than I could really eat. More to the point, all I did was
assembled it, boomed everything in there and I stopped. I had
literally, probably three days of sweat labor to assemble it. It's
a lot of adjustments to take place and I'm not prepared to work in
the water anymore until it thaws out. 1 drop everything in the
water, it seems like.
TRUSTEE KING: If we don't do this until next month, will it hold
you up?
MR. FRAGOLA: No.
TRUSTEE KING: Why don't we just put it on for the next field
inspection, I'll go out and take a look, all right?
MR. FRAGOLA: Sure. If you give me a minute so I can find all the
pictures I took.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll make a motion to table this to next month so
we can take a look at it.
TRUSTEE KING: Second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: If you find them, let us know.
MR. FRAGOLA: I probably left it in my truck. I have one question
to ask the Board before I step out of here. I don't -- bingo.
Here we go. I don't plan on putting the boat in for probably other
month or two. So I would need a good month before I could get the
boat out there. This is some quick shots. (handing photographs.)
If you see what I did here, I know it's not the best shots, you'll
Board of Trustees 10 Mazch 19, 2008
see temporary, the old wires, all I did was assemble what it looks
like. I didn't do more than that.
TRUSTEE KING: I didn't expect it to look like that. I don't know
why. How big a boat can you pick up with that?
MR. FRAGOLA: Weight wise or size?
TRUSTEE KING: Both.
MR. FRAGOLA: You can lift up about 35,000 pounds and Iguess --
that's agood question. Maybe about 40 feet. I'm guessing.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Wow.
MR. FRAGOLA: If you look at it, when you people take the time to go
out there, when you look at the elevation points, I know these are
poor shots, but it gives you an idea. This is the top of the
motors. It's where it sits is the same elevation as my piling is
on, so it's not above anything, and the whole thing is essentially
so the boat doesn't come out to where it's protruding from above.
I just don't have the lift.
TRUSTEE KING: So it gets out of the water.
MR. FRAGOLA: Essentially. And when foul weather comes around we
sink it back in the water.
TRUSTEE KING: We'll go out next month.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We can go out April 9.
MR. FRAGOLA: I have one other question, Jim. You've spoken to me
about the revegetation on the side of the property. I was looking
at trying to follow what you indicated. White Pines. I spoke to
Chuck Hamilton, he said no. Then I spoke to him a while ago, he
said maybe. I'm not doing anything until the Board goes out. They
are all White Pines that are there. I'm trying to retain
everything that is there. I put everything I was supposed to put
in, I looked at it over the winter. It's starting to erode. I'll
start revegetating again. I was just curious if you think it's a
good idea to put the White Pine in before the season gets on top of
us. All right?
TRUSTEE KING: Yes.
MR. FRAGOLA: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: Two, three, four and five we can lump together.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And seven, eight and nine. We can lump all those
together.
So it's number two, Creative Environmental Design on behalf of
DENNIS HICKEY requests an Amendment to Permit #6779 to install a
flagpole above the non-disturbance buffer, below the retaining
wall. Located: 175 Clearwater Lane, Cutchogue.
Number three, Samuels & Steelman Architects on behalf of
WALTER GITLIN requests an Amendment to Permit #6224 to construct a
new uncovered entry deck and steps on the north side of the house;
Board of Trustees 11 March 19, 2008
remove approved steps from south side deck to grade; and install a
7' high fence from house to garage, enclosing garden. Located: 1180
Smith Drive South, Southold.
Number four, Patricia Moore on behalf of PERT HINDEN requests
an Amendment to Permit #6732 to relocated the pilings on the
floating dock as depicted on the plans prepared by Robert H. Fox
last dated December 31, 2007. Located: 1255 Woodcliff Drive,
Mattituck.
Number five, JMO Environmental Consulting Services on behalf
of NOL, LLC requests an Amendment to Permit #6432 to demolish the
existing single-family dwelling prior to the construction of the
new dwelling. Located: Private Road, Fishers Island.
Number seven, Suffolk Environmental Consulting on behalf of
CJC1 requests an Amendment to Permit #6725 to construct a 80x112'
commercial building to contain a 40x80' garage/storage area, 12x80'
common area, 42x40' retail or office space and a 42x40' office
space. Second-floor to contain a 33x36' apartment and a3,772
unfinished attic space. Proposed structure will be served by one
attendant sanitary system and drywells to handle storm water
runoff. Construct a parking area with attendant drainage to
accommodate atwo-inch rainfall event. Located: 74495 Rt. 25,
Greenport.
Number eight, ANN MARIE NELSON requests aOne-Year Extension
to Permit #6354, as issued on April 19, 2006. Located: 1420 9th
Street, Greenport.
Number nine, Costello Marine Contracting on behalf of JOSEPH
BRITTMAN requests aOne-Year Extension to Permit #6346 as issued on
April 19, 2006. Located: 80 Glenn Road, Southold.
We looked at them, we had no problem with any of them. They
were straightforward amendments or extensions. I'll make a motion
to approve them as listed.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE KING: Now we'll do number six. Garrett A. Strang,
Architect on behalf of SPIRO GEROULANOS requests an Amendment to
Permit #684 to remove the existing dock, replace catwalk, dock and
floating dock in same location; float to be landward so as to be
above high water depth at float. Located: 2130 Broadwaters Road,
Cutchogue.
Board of Trustees 12 March 19, 2008
I had a question. It's confusing to me. The float to be
landward so as to be above high water depth. It doesn't make sense
to me.
MR. STRANG: That's incorrect. The catwalk is to be brought further
landward than it presently is, so it's above the high water mark.
Not the float, but the catwalk.
TRUSTEE KING: That makes more sense. The catwalk is being extended
landward, in other words.
MR. STRANG: Correct.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I want to make a comment to the audience. This
is not the property we are talking about (indicating) but in the
interim of some pictures that either we don't have or there is a
fairly big gap between inspection sites, we are going to try to put
in some best management or environmentally friendly ideas that
people are using. This is the grated catwalk.
MR. STRANG: Excuse me. Is that aluminum or plastic?
TRUSTEE KING: That's plastic. There is different styles and
different types. Some fiberglass. That happens to be plastic.
What they are one foot sections; one-foot by four-foot sections.
It looks pretty good. I don't think that let's quite as much light
through as some of the other ones but still it's much letter than
the solid decking. It does let light through so you do get some
vegetation growth. In my mind that's better than having it four
foot up in the air. Because the light goes through it, it can be
lower. The DEC is letting us get down lower. So, esthetically, I
think it's much better.
MR. STRANG: I think it's a better thing.
TRUSTEE KING: We all went out and looked at this. This is a minor
action under the LWRP. So it's exempt. I don't think anybody had
any problem with this. It's a landward extension. We are going
out a little further seaward is it or --
MR. STRANG: Yes, we are going out a little further seaward but we
are making sure we are behind the neighboring dock, or no further
than the neighboring dock.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm just looking at the neighboring dock. I know
there is another dock here, I know this is well within, in that pier line.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It has the soundings here, 2.3 feet. He had only
1.5 where it exists.
TRUSTEE KING: CAC recommended approval, to support the
application. They want aten-foot, non-turf buffer with
non-treated pilings and grated catwalk. They have the grated
catwalk. The dock should not inhabit the flat road access in
accordance with public trust. These low profile docks, you step
right over them. It's not a problem anymore. It's not like it's an
obstruction. It's a plus. There is really no turf or anything
down there now. I think later on we'll be addressing that whole
Board of Trustees 13 March 19, 2008
area in another application, so. I think this is all right. I'll
make a motion to approve as submitted.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
MR. STRANG: Thank you, very much.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to go off the regular meeting and
go into our public hearing section.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE KING: Before we move on, we should mention the
postponements. There are a lot of them.
POSTPONEMENTS:
Page four, number seven is postponed, Costello Marine on
behalf of RICHARD K. JOHNSON 8~ PAMELA MAINO, request a Wetland
Permit to construct a 4'10' ramp up to a 4x18' level fixed dock
section with a 3x10' seasonal wooden ramp onto a seasonal 5x18'
floating dock secured by two 4"x4" posts. Located: 7617 Soundview
Avenue, Southold, is postponed.
Number nine, CLEAVES POINT POA requests a Wetland Permit to
re-sheath sections, totaling up to 32+/-linear feet maximum, of
the landward side of existing bulkhead using vinyl, T&G plank
sheathing with filter fabric liner, and backfill with 20+/- cubic
yards of clean sand from an upland source. Located: 345 Osprey Nest
Road, Greenport, has been postponed.
Number ten, Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of VARUJAN
ARSLANYAN requests a Wetland Permit to install a docking facility
consisting of two floats, each 8x20' and secured by four 8"
diameter piles, with access by hinged ramp 4x16' secured at its
landward end to existing bulkhead. Located: 1280 Sage Blvd.,
Greenport, has been postponed.
Number 11, Suffolk Environmental Consulting on behalf of LLOYD
KAPLAN requests a Wetland Permit to construct a swimming pool with
a surrounding patio and attendant pool equipment, pool drywell and
pool fencing, landscaping, landscape retaining wall and entrance
gate. Located: 105 Soundview Avenue, Southold, has been postponed.
Number 12, Suffolk Environmental Consulting on behalf of KEVIN
Board of Trustees 14 March 19, 2008
GALLAGHER requests a Wetland Permit to construct two stone
revetments at the subject parcel to curb areas of substantial
erosion. Both revetments will consist of cap stone and toe stone in
the 50-100 pound range and will be backfilled with clean upland
sand and vegetated with Cape American Beachgrass. Located: 40
Beechwood Lane, Southold, has been postponed.
Number 13, Catherine Mesiano on behalf of MICHAEL & HEATHER
GILL requests a Wetland Permit to construct asecond-story
addition; one-story garage addition; reconstruct existing deck;
abandon existing cesspools and install new conforming septic
system. Located: 1325 Lupton's Point Road, Mattituck, has been
postponed.
Number 14, Catherine Mesiano on behalf of LEWIS TOPPER
requests a Wetland Permit to demolish the existing 31x49' frame
house located 15' north of the existing bulkhead and construct a
new 15x60' two-story dwelling 40' north of the bulkhead; relocated
and renovate the 18x37' accessory structure presently located 126
feet north of the bulkhead to 154 feet north of the bulkhead;
abandon the existing septic system and install a new sanitary
system 125 feet from the bulkhead and 125 feet from AHW; install
drywells for containment of storm water runoff and create a 10'
non-turf buffer. Located: 3605 Camp Mineola Road, Mattituck, has
been postponed.
Number 15, Ural Talgat on behalf of PAUL AND CHERYL RAGUSA
requests a Wetland Permit to install an inground swimming pool and
terrace addition. Located: 1600 Hyatt Road, Southold, has been
postponed.
Number 16, Peconic Associates on behalf of STIRLING HARBOR
SHIPYARD AT GREENPORT INC., requests a Wetland Permit to replace in
the same location as the existing, approximately 535 linear feet of
deteriorated bulkhead, on "D" dock, on "C" dock and on the "work"
dock, and remove/replace 1,000 cubic yards of material behind the
replace bulkhead; replace 4,100 square feet of fixed dock with
4,300 square feet of floating dock; replace 205 existing pilings in
conjunction with the fixed docks with 32 pilings to secure the
proposed floating docks. Located: Stirling Harbor, Greenport, has
been postponed.
Number 17, Jeffrey T. Butler on behalf of DANIEL HUME requests
a Wetland Permit to construct beach stairs and related walkways and
platforms. Located: 13945 Oregon Road, Cutchogue, has been
postponed.
Board of Trustees 15 March 19, 2008
Number 18, Jeffrey T. Butler on behalf of JOHN ELICK, AS
TRUSTEE, requests a Wetland permit to construct beach stairs and
related walkways and platforms. Located: Oregon Road, Cutchogue,
has been postponed.
Number 19, JOSEPH ZEVITS requests a Wetland Permit to remove
pilings and timber from east side of jetty, remove existing wood
staving and replace with C-Loc4500 series vinyl sheathing. Timbers
of the east side and most seaward timber on the west side will be
replaced with new CCA timbers. Existing pilings to be used again
and jetty to be bolted with 3/4" bolts. Located: 1375 West Lane,
Southold, has been postponed.
Number 20, JMO Environmental on behalf of FISHERS ISLAND FERRY
DISTRICT requests a Wetland Permit to maintenance dredge an 80x140'
channel to -20' ALW. The resultant spoil (+/- 7,800 cubic yards of
sand and cobble) will be disposed of an island site upland disposal
site. Located: Foot of Fox Lane, Fishers Island.
Number 21, Bruce D. Kinlin, Architect on behalf of ANN G.
DEARBORN requests a Wetland Permit and Coastal Erosion Permit to
connect the two existing dwellings on the property and expand
landward of the existing dwellings. Located: Private Road off East
End Road, Fishers Island, has been postponed.
Number 22, Dock, Inc., on behalf of ROBERT MEYER requests a
Wetland Permit to reconstruct 138+/-linear feet of 5.7' wide fixed
wood pile and timber pier including ladders and four braced tie-off
piles waterward of the high tide line. Located: Crescent Avenue,
Fishers Island, has been postponed.
Number 23, behalf of WILLIAM GAILLARD requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a 6x20' timber and pile supported pier
extension and an 8x20' float with associated restraint piles,
hinged ramp and one tie-off pile all waterward of the apparent high
water line. Located: Bell Hill Avenue, Fishers Island, has been
postponed.
Number 24, Dock Inc., on behalf of FISHERS ISLAND YACHT CLUB
requests a Wetland Permit to replace an existing 6x95' main float
with a 6x95' concrete float, construct a 6x30' main float
extension, install four new 3x24' finger floats with associated
restraint piles, add a 30 square foot pier extension and three
braced fender/tie-off piles to an existing fixed pier, all
waterward of the apparent high water line. Located: Central Avenue,
Board of Trustees 16 March 19, 2008
Fishers Island, has been postponed
Number 25, Dock, Inc., on behalf of HAY HARBOR CLUB requests a
Wetland Permit to reconstruct and relocate two 16x16' floats with
new restraint pilings, and one 14'x16' float, install one new
14x16' float and new 10x42' float with associated restraint
pilings. Reconstruct 400 linear feet of fixed wood pile and timber
access walkway and pier of variable width, conduct maintenance
dredging, 25 cubic yards of sand from the diving area for upland
disposal at the beach, on site. Add new restraint pilings to an
existing float waterward of the apparent high water line. Located:
Fox Avenue, Fishers Island, has been postponed.
So it will be a short night and next month I think we'll have
a problem. I think it was in October that we had that extra
meeting. We may have to do something like that this spring if we
get bogged down, because I don't want to be here until one o'clock
in the morning and I don't want to hold people up either. So if we
have to have a special meeting, we will.
COASTAL EROSION AND WETLAND PERMITS:
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Under Coastal Erosion and Wetland Permits, number
one, Louis P. Giacalone, Ehasz Giacalone Architects on behalf of
EDUCATIONAL AND CULTURAL FUND (Santorini Beachcomber Motel)
requests an Administrative Wetland Permit & Coastal Erosion Permit
to replace the asphalt shingles on all three buildings (two motel
buildings and the restaurant.) Renovate all three buildings
(outside and inside) to modernize the complex. Located: 3800 Duck
Pond Road, Cutchogue.
We were all there. We all looked at it. We have the LWRP
coordinator has listed this, has determined this to be a consistent
action. CAC resolves to support the permit with the condition that
gutters and dnrnrells are installed to contain the roof runoff and
the Trustees also want to see the condition that we bring it up to
current drainage code. And I also have a note here about repairing
the fence, which we can talk about further.
Is there anybody here who would like to speak to this?
MR. GIACALONE: Good evening, I'm Louis Giacalone, Giacalone
Architects, representing the Cultural Educational Fund. There is
also a representative of the fund here. As you are aware, they
recently purchased the property and we have filed drawings with the
Building Department for the purposes of what we are requesting the
permit this evening for updating and modernizing those three
buildings and also replacing the roof.
The reason we are looking to do the roof right away is that
Boazd of Trustees 17 Mazch 19, 2008
it's in pretty bad shape and we are trying to avoid having leaks
throughout the buildings while they are using the buildings this
summer. So we requested a permit so we can get out there and
replace that roof and replace the roof shingles immediately. And
that's the purpose why we are here.
We do understand, because we talked to the Building
Department, that we will be and we already had filed, actually,
drawings for replacing the gutters and for putting in gutters and
leaders and for putting in drywells for the storm water. And the
fence, I'm not sure which fence you are referring to. Are you
referring to the fence that is on the bulkhead?
TRUSTEE KING: Right at the east end of the property is a chainlink
fence that is in pretty much disrepair. Right in the corner.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes, all the way down the east looks like the
chainlink fence was starting to fall apart.
MR. GIACALONE: So it's east of the buildings.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes.
MR. GIACALONE: Okay. The intent is to replace all the fencing
along the entire waterfront, both by the buildings and further
down, just for the protection of people using the facility and also
give them so some security from the people on the beach. But those
drawings have not been filed yet but they will be filed.
TRUSTEE KING: We can put that in this permit, replace the fencing,
put that in now so it's on the permit.
MR. GIACALONE: If I may, we are just in the beginning of filing.
As you know, we filed initially for just some interior upgrades and
just recently, I believe today, actually, filed for the additional
modernization including the outside work. We don't anticipate
starting construction until September, assuming we get all our
permits in place by then. So this is the first phase of it, if you
will.
So the intent would be to start that work in September so they
can use the buildings in the summer and not have construction crews
on the site and right after Labor Day they'll basically close up
the place and we'll start construction in earnest. And that's when
we'll start the fencing, the underground retaining basins for the
storm water, et cetera, but at least the roof will have been on
between now and September.
TRUSTEE KING: This permit is good for two years, then you can, if
you run behind, you get two one-year extensions, so.
MR. GIACALONE: Running behind is not my client's desire or ours,
but we appreciate that.
TRUSTEE KING: Well, you get a valid permit for two years and then
you can extend it.
MR. MCGREEVY: The fence you are okaying on this application, would
that be inkind/inplace; it wouldn't extend any further?
Board of Trustees 18 March 19, 2008
TRUSTEE KING: I think it's all inplace chainlink fence.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And it's all up on the property, it's not on the
beach.
MR. GIACALONE: We may change the style of it. But whatever we
decide to do, we'll come back and file with the Building Department
and if necessary meet with you to review it.
TRUSTEE KING: Sure.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I was just thinking for now this would give you
permission to repair the break in the fence for safety reasons and
then, you know, at your leisure whenever you wanted to do the total
replacement.
MR. GIACALONE: That's not a problem, yes. Again, that is something
they would want to do anyway just for the purposes of security.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Any other comments, questions?
(No response.)
I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I'It make a motion to approve the application of
Louis Giacalone on behalf of Educational and Cultural Fund
(Santorini Beachcomber Motel) for an Administrative Wetland Permit
and Coastal Erosion Permit to replace the asphalt shingles on all
three buildings, renovate all three buildings, to modernize the
complex with the stipulation that the drainage be brought up to
current drainage code and that also included in this permit
replacement inkind/inplace of the existing chainlink fence.
TRUSTEE KING: Second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
MR. GIACALONE: Thank you, very much.
TRUSTEE KING: You're welcome. Good night.
WETLAND PERMITS:
TRUSTEE KING: Under Wetland Permits, number one, Docko Inc., on
behalf of LINDA BORDEN requests a Wetland Permit to construct
four-foot wide stairs with a 4x4' landing, 20 linear feet of
four-foot wide wood pile and timber pier and two five-foot wide
stairs from pier to beach and low step along side of pier. Located:
Equestrian Avenue, Fishers Island.
MR. NIELSON: Good evening, my name is Keith Nielson, President of
Docko, Inc., and I prepared the application documents you are
reviewing tonight on behalf of Ms. Borden.
As you'll recall, this project was originally a slightly
larger pier and included a ramp to a floating dock and float
Board of Trustees 19 Mazch 19, 2008
restraint piles which were considered not approvable by the DEC and
so the application documents you now have revised that original
proposal. It is just a straight pier. It runs over the boulder
which is located on the shore fronton the property. To the
center, almost centered between two small outcrops of Spartina
Alterniflora fringe marsh and maintaining the original stair
configuration down the bank that we visited last August 8 and
looked at together.
The project is basically centered on the property to avoid
repairing conflicts with adjacent land owners and the application
drawings have all been revised as well as the LWRP application.
The original application narrative has all valid information except
for the deletion of the float and ramp and so I believe that the
application documents now accurately reflect the intentions of the
Borden's to gain access to the beach and to have a very short pier
for launching and retrieving kayaks, canoe and their small boating
activity.
The stairways maintain access across the shore when the water
level is between mean low and mean high in accordance with the LWRP
and there is a small side step on the east side of the pier to
allow launching and retrieval of the kayak at reasonable tide
elevations otherwise the launch and retrieval will be done from the
beach using the stairs.
The application documents contain all the necessary
authorizations and acknowledgments for town rights of access to the
property and applicant's compliance with terms of the Local Law Six
and also state compliance with the Department of State Coastal
Management Policies, and are valid. We do have the return receipts
from the Chapaton's (sic) and Anthony's, and a week or iwo ago we
sent in the photographs showing the poster posted at the site.
TRUSTEE KING: It's been found consistent with LWRP. This is a case
where we had issued a permit and in the time it took to get the
other permit, the other permits necessary, the permit expired. So
this is actually --and it's been modified, so it's kind of a
reapplication for a smaller project that was already approved. It's
similar to the first one we had previously tonight, but not as
complex. But it was a case of a permit expiring and they had to
reapply.
CAC did not make an inspection so there is no recommendation
from them. Was there any thought of using material like that on
the platform?
MR. NIELSON: Thru-flow grating could be used on the decking instead
of the wood and plastic materials. I did reference in the
application narrative, the original narrative, that that would be
an option and would still be an option.
TRUSTEE KING: We have been moving in that direction, you know. I
Board of Trustees 20 March 19, 2008
would like to see it used.
MR. NIELSON: We can revise the drawings and send them into you with
that stipulation, if you would like, along with any other
stipulations on materials and so on.
TRUSTEE KING: What about the steps going down; keep those wood,
just have the lower platform there grated or do you want to make
the steps open grate, too?
MR. NIELSON: I would concede on the open grating also on the
steps. Thru-Flow has now begun manufacturing five-foot long steps.
TRUSTEE KING: This is becoming more popular.
MR. NIELSON: If you have not walked on it, they have a nice texture
on the grating as well, so it's not slick. Some of the plastic
materials are slick unless they are textured. But this really is a
pretty nice product. It is soft. I don't know if I demonstrated
this to you last August, but it's soft. You have to make sure that
the stringer intervals are proper. They put holes in the decks
where they need the stringers and you have to put them in otherwise
it's it flexes when you step on it.
TRUSTEE KING: Maybe next time I come to Fishers Island I could find
a sample of it.
MR. NIELSON: I'm sure we have. Usually I carry one with me. Not
tonight.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments? Jack?
MR. MCGREEVY: Jim, if I'm reading the diagram correctly, the new
stairs to the beach, is it duplicated on both sides?
MR. NIELSON: Yes.
MR. MCGREEVY: The purpose of that is?
MR. NIELSON: To provide access over the pier in accordance with
LWRP to not impede beach access.
TRUSTEE KING: I don't think there is a lot of pedestrian traffic
along there. It's not really a shoreline that people walk.
MR. NIELSON: I would not disagree. And we don't have to -- we can
take one of them out if you would like.
TRUSTEE KING: It's more structure and it's really not necessary. I
know that shoreline. You don't have people walking along there.
And with these low profile walkways you can step over and walk
across.
MR. NIELSON: You can walk across, at the shore end, you can see how
low it is.
MR. MCGREEVY: The reason I mentioned it, as time goes on that type
of construction will be in certain circumstances definitely
needed. That's the only reason I mentioned it.
TRUSTEE KING: We have been moving in that direction. We made the
suggestions on some of the stairways down the bluff to go to the
grated. We always have an erosion problem under these stairs
because vegetation doesn't grow.
Board of Trustees 21 March 19, 2008
MR. MCGREEVY: So I would just say as needed.
MR. NIELSON: If I could make one suggestion, it would be my
preference to take the stair off on the east side because that's
where the rocks are located. The stairs on the other side will
require much less land disturbance.
TRUSTEE KING: I would be comfortable if you don't have stairs on
either side. I'll leave that option up to you. You can remove
both or the one set. I just can't see that dock impeding --
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We can approve it with one side and if you don't
build it, that's --
MR. NIELSON: That's the way I'll do it. Fine, thank you.
TRUSTEE KING: Being no other comments, I'll make a motion to close
the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application. We'll
be using open-grate style and instead of two sets of stairs there
will be one set of stairs on the dock for access, on the west side.
That's optional. You are approved to have it if you want to.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I want to add you are using grated and it's low,
it's still consistent with LWRP.
TRUSTEE KING: I think it makes it more consistent with the LWRP.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: It's less structure.
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make that motion. Second?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE KING: Number two, Docko, Inc., on behalf of PIRATE'S COVE
MARINA, INC., requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct straddle
hoist piers and facilities at the southwesterly corner of the boat
yard. Located: Off Peninsula Road in Inner Harbor, Fishers Island.
I think we all looked at that last year, if I remember, when
we were out there.
MR. NIELSON: Do you have enough pictures?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Yes, for myself. Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: So you added -- I see what was done here. On the
concrete path is the drainage that we talked about. There's a
drywell here.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So the drainage is going into a holding tank.
MR. NIELSON: Yes. This is a copy for everybody.
TRUSTEE KING: It looks like. Any idea how much water they actually
use at the bottom and how often do they have to pump the tank?
MR. NIELSON: Bottom wash takes about 70 gallons, 50 to 70 gallons,
and this is a 1,250 gallon tank that I think they normally wash two
Boazd of Trustees 22 March 19, 2008
or three boats a day and -- do you need another one of these for
the record? (Handing). And while up I'm up here, we received one
of the mailing slips back from the neighbor on the west.
So they could get easily ten, 15, 20 washes, which is, we try
to size the tank for about a week's worth of activity there, and at
that point the tank would have to be pumped. As you know, Pirate's
Cove is trying to meet the clean marina program guidelines and
until filtration criteria and water quality standards and testing
standards are completed for all of this, we all feel it would be
best just to hold the water, have it picked up by Clean Harbors,
they can
treat it for whatever the industry standard is and when we can zero in on
the right things, then we can add filtration to it, if necessary.
You'll notice on the drawings 1 have handwritten and drawn in
a little blue circle. There will be a valve installed on the wash
down pad so that after the washing activity is over, the valve can
be closed and that way any rain that falls will just dissipate into
the ground around the pad.
TRUSTEE KING: Sure. That's good.
TRUSTEE KING: Any other comments?
(No response.)
MR. NIELSON: Do you want me to go through any of my spiel?
TRUSTEE KING: No, I don't think it's going to be necessary.
MR. NIELSON: My application does include the standard
certifications and acknowledgment of Board of Trustees rights and
permitee obligations and this pier reconstruction is necessitated
by a larger straddle lift that they have purchased and will be on
site in about amonth-and-a-half. So.
TRUSTEE KING: The boats keep getting bigger.
MR. NIELSON: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: Okay, no other comments, I'll make a motion to close
the hearing.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to approve the application as
submitted.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
MR. NIELSON: Thank you.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Number three, Garrett Strang, Architect, on behalf
of SPIRO GEROULANOS requests a Wetland Permit to install an
inground swimming pool, terrace, retaining wall and new lawn area.
Board of Trustees 23 March 19, 2008
Located: 2130 Braodwaters Road, Cutchogue.
We have all been out there a couple of times. We tabled this
from last month to take another look at it. We did have Mark Terry
come out with us and we verified the Wetland line of Rob Herman,
and we do have updated surveys showing moving the pool back so it's
50 feet away from that Wetland line.
The pool has been reduced and it's 50 feet seaward of the
wetland line. And I think that was what was discussed out there.
LWRP finds it consistent.
Are there any other comments?
MR. STRANG: Yes, if I may. Garrett Strang, Architect. In the
submittal I made this week, I have two plans attached. The first
one is actually an regional plan marked up in red indicating where
the agreed to Wetland line is and showing what the 50-foot setback
would be, on the original submittal, which shows an encroachment,
if you will, of a triangular area of about six feet by 34 feet, or
about 102 square feet. And I know that the Trustees' regulation is
for a minimum 50-foot setback. However, my client asked if I
would, on his behalf, revisit this and ask if the Board might
consider since that is such a small area that would be encroaching,
since it makes for a better installation with respect to the fact
that the pool and the terrace are running parallel with the natural
slope of the land, if we pull it back as per the amended plan that
I also submitted as an attachment, we now run a little bit askew of
the natural lay of the land so the retaining wall looks or would
look somewhat unusual since it would be going from a low end to a
high end as the grade changes, and we felt it might be more
visually and naturally appearing if it were to parallel the lay of
the land. And given the fact that it's such a small encroachment.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I think the discussion is to maintain the 50
foot.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We are pretty strict on that.
MR. STRANG: Okay, we just figured we would ask.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And that 50 foot in front of that would be a
non-disturbance area.
MR. STRANG: That's fine.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: You are allowed to maintain that four-foot wide
path and we would like to see, once we have the approvals, C&R
files are filed.
MR. STRANG: So the non-disturbance would be a C&R.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: They'll need a line of hay bales.
TRUSTEE KING: We could put a line of hay bales up during
construction and if there is any disturbance in that area it can
get replanted. I know what you mean.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: That's what I mean, after the fact.
Board of Trustees 24 March 19, 2008
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Are any of these trees coming down?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Those are tacked for the non-disturbance area.
MR. STRANG: Those are the trees in the lawn area.
TRUSTEE KING: We want to keep any excavation material out of this
area. Don't pile it up in, down into that non-disturbance area.
MR. STRANG: Oh, no, we wouldn't. Actually, any excavation spoils
will be used right in the area of the pool to bring the terrace up
to height.
TRUSTEE KING: We need the hay bales. We have to give them enough
room to work. Everything seaward of the retaining wall is behind
the 50 foot buffer.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Eight foot contour line would give them more than
enough.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Can we do the nine foot line?
TRUSTEE KING: What is this here?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Was there some trees down in that area directly in
front of what is going to be the retaining wall?
MR. STRANG: Nothing beyond that. The edge of the retaining wall was
nothing befinreen that and the edge of the water that would be
disturbed or any trees coming down. The only area where trees are
being removed is where the pool and terrace are going and of course
this is continuing in the area of the proposed lawn.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So on the pool side of the property, which is the
hay bales at the nine foot contour line and any disturbance in that
area should be replanted and become anon-disturbance area after
construction.
MR. STRANG: Okay.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Now, on the other side, I believe that's what this
picture is. And what are the tagged trees?
MR. STRANG: The tagged trees are the ones proposed to be removed.
Some of them are damaged to begin with. Some of them, it's our
opinion that they are a little too close together so we want to
thin them out a little bit so they don't choke each other out, and
I think there is a minimal number of trees being removed there.
TRUSTEE KING: Where are they located as far as -- are they within
what is the non-disturbance area?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes. On this picture here can you point out where
the wall would be.
TRUSTEE KING: Where would the wall go?
MR. STRANG: From that picture, that's a good question. The trees
were intended to be in the lawn area. The trees that are being
removed were intended to be lawn area.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So this is further back.
MR. STRANG: Yes. If you wish to condition that the trees in the
Board of Trustees 25 March 19, 2008
non-disturbance area are to remain, I don't think that would be a
problem.
TRUSTEE KING: So what we want to see is where this retaining wall
is basically everything in front of that retaining wall is a
non-disturbance area. That's an easy way to do it.
MR. STRANG: That's fine. I believe the retaining wall was staked
but this picture I think it predates when the staking went in.
TRUSTEE KING: So we'll just make that -- the entire area seaward of
the wall is anon-disturbance. That simplifies it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All right. Any other comments?
(No response.)
Hearing none, I'll close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Second. All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll make a motion to approve the application of
Spiro Geroulanos to install inground swimming pool, terrace and
retaining wall and new lawn area; a line of hay bales shall be in
place approximately at the nine-foot contour during construction
and anything seaward of the pool disturbed shall be replanted and
anything seaward of the retaining wall across the whole entire
property will be anon-disturbance area. Of course with the pool
there will be a drywell, and this is based on the plans of Garrett
Strang of 1/21/08. Do I have a second?
MR. STRANG: Can I interject a moment. The plan was prepared
1/21/08 but it was updated 3/17/08. So that would be the current
drawing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Okay. Sorry.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE KING: Did you put the backwash --
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes, I said that. Do you have the drywell on here,
the backwash?
MR. STRANG: I don't. I have no problem adding that on to the
drawing and bringing you copies.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Do you want to add it here and initial it and we
can stamp it, too.
MR. STRANG: Sure.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I'll give you all three of these.
MR. STRANG: I'll mark it up and bring it back momentarily.
TRUSTEE KING: We have a motion and a second on it. All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
MR. STRANG: Thank you, have a Happy Easter.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Sherman Engineering & Consulting on behalf of
CHRISTIAN & HEIDI FOKINE requests a Wetland Permit to remove the
Board of Trustees 26 March 19, 2008
existing steps and to construct a 4x51.4" catwalk using transparent
plastic oralam grated decking, a 4x12'10" prefabricated metal ramp
and a 5x12' floating dock. Located: 2505 Wells Avenue, Southold.
Is there anyone here to speak to this application?
MR. SHERMAN: Matt Sherman with Sherman Engineering & Consulting.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We all went out and looked at this and had some
concerns, and I believe you have some information for us tonight.
MR. SHERMAN: Yes. I spoke with Jill the other day. She explained
some of the concerns you had. I put together some new drawings
which show a revised shortened dock plan as well as the depth
information around the dock and over to the other side of the creek.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: CAC supports the application and actually
recommended the grated material which is in the application and we
are definitely looking at the one-third.
MR. SHERMAN: The new plan, I put a little more information on here
on the new plans than we had on the original that was submitted.
As you can see, the first page shows that we have basically just
gotten away with the landward third to half of the dock and then
just kept it on the seaward side.
The original design had the intent of keeping foot traffic off
of that high marsh area, coming off where the existing steps are
and then getting us access over to the water. If the Board and the
CAC feels that eliminating that, the addition of the dock,
outweighs the harm of the foot traffic across that high marsh area,
the owners have no problem doing something along these lines.
Also going on a little bit of what Jim had mentioned earlier
about one of the other docks, we had kept the height at three feet
in order to meet with the DEC requirements. If the town has the
ability to work with the DEC better than I do and we can work, drop
the height of that down, by all means, we would be more than eager
to do so.
TRUSTEE KING: We did two catwalks in Halls Creek. It was their
recommendation to go down to 18 inches, DEC recommendation.
MR. SHERMAN: We would be more than eager to accept that.
On the second page of this you can see going across the creek,
on the applicant side of the creek, the west side, it's a shallower
slope getting down to about the six foot maximum depth at low tide,
then it goes up on a little bit less of a gradual on the opposite
side of the creek, which puts the actual navigable part of the
creek on the far side. So at high tide we are at approximately 100
feet across from side to side. And the dock is going out to 33
feet across. So right at a third of the way across the waterway.
At low side the creek is approximately 65 feet wide and we are
going out to about ten feet. So at low tide we actually, we are
not quite, we are not at that 33% low tide going across.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is this new drawing workable with the Trustees,
Board of Trustees 27 March 19, 2008
that maybe he could go stake it and we'll go look at it again?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I think it's something to be considered.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I just didn't want to have him stake this if we
were not going to even consider it.
TRUSTEE KING: This was in the same location as the old proposal.
MR. SHERMAN: Yes. The reason why that location is chosen is in
order to find that two-foot mark and be at most a third of the way
across, we tried a couple of different, and we just slowly worked
our way over until we got to that point. That's basically what
dictated where the dock went.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Just to let you know, it was reviewed
inconsistent by LWRP. I'm just trying to see here, even though
this, he'll be reviewing this again, we are assuming a new survey.
And 1 think we can address some of these with the new application.
One of the comments is the width and the length of the dock.
Due to the environmental constraints of this location, which is the
low water depth, the proposed action may not be suitable in the
proposed location.
We looked at that other area. Is that not deep enough, the
area to the west?
MR. SHERMAN: If you come around, going deeper into the creek.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Right.
MR. SHERMAN: The problem with that side is it's shallower further
out, so the amount of catwalk would have to be drastically
increased in order to get thetwo-and-a-half foot of depth. I
don't have any detailed sounding information out there, but as we
were poking around in the initial phases of this, that's what we
were finding.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: What does the Board feel? Do we want to
continue pursuing this and have it staked and go out and look
again?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I definitely want to see it staked according to
these new plans. The question I have for the Board for discussion
is; which is better, to have people walking through the high marsh
area or a catwalk with, you know, open grate coming down low
through that high marsh area to the existing steps.
TRUSTEE KING: The way it was, there was no vegetation there at all
for that whole stretch.
MR. SHERMAN: There is not much out there. It periodically gets
flooded.
TRUSTEE KING: If we could see it staked, I would like to see a
stake on each seaward corner of where the float will be, the outer
most point. Give us an idea where the outer most part of the float
will be.
MR. SHERMAN: Okay.
TRUSTEE KING: And just my own thoughts, it would be maybe 18 inches
Board of Trustees 28 Mazch 19, 2008
off grade, open grate, and DEC has not been approving anything but
4x4s in the intertidal marsh area, so we try to coordinate with
them. 4x4's in the intertidal marsh, when you get out into the
water, it's six-inch piles. They are pretty strict on that in the
last year or two.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Since this was deemed inconsistent and we are
going out and looking at it again, do you have a copy of the LWRP?
MR. SHERMAN: No, ma'am, I don't.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I would recommend you get a copy either tonight
and/or through the office and look through it.
TRUSTEE KING: Did he list some of the policies?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Yes.
TRUSTEE KING: He could kind of address each one.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: If you could come into the office.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Do you want to meet us on the next field
inspection?
MR. SHERMAN: That would be great. Yes.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: So just get a copy from Liz in the office.
MR. SHERMAN: Okay. And will this be on your April 9 field
inspection? Because I'll have them stake it, I'll start making
phone calls tomorrow and get that to happen right away. So should I
just contact the office as far as the time.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Just tell them you want to meet us out there and
give them your cellphone number.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Get a copy of the LWRP so you can address it and
make it more conforming to the policies.
I'll make a motion to table.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
MR. SHERMAN: Thank you.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Number five Condon Engineering on behalf of MARY
ANN MEARS requests a Wetland Permit to remove existing wood steps;
construct an attached wood deck and steps onto an existing
one-story, one family dwelling, and install gravel French drain for
roof/deck runoff. Located: 1050 Dean Drive, Cutchogue.
I went out and looked at this. This actually had been -- a
very similar project had been looked at in 2005 by this Board and
in fact this Board had approved permit 6268 on December 21, 2005.
That is an identical design of the deck. The difference between
then and now is this new permit request, since the old one ran out
in December, addresses the roof runoff and addresses the drainage
code issues with French drains.
This was reviewed by the CAC who resolved to support the
application under the condition that gutters and drywells were
Board of Trustees 29 March 19, 2008
installed in place of the proposed French drain, and it was
reviewed under the LWRP and found to be inconsistent because of its
distance from the high water mark, where the code calls for 100
foot and this one is 63.7 and; secondly, they wanted to make sure
that there was no treated lumber used in the construction. And
they are requiring anon-disturbance buffer seaward of the proposed
deck to protect the coastal vegetation.
Is there anybody here to speak on behalf of this application?
MR. CONDON: Yes. John Condon, Condon Engineering. I was retained to
reapply for the permit since they let it lapse.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: A question for Jack McGreevy. It said, I read into
the record, the CAC voted to support this if gutters and drywells
were used leading into the French drain. There is a French drain
depicted here in the plans, goes all the way around the house, so I
was just wondering why the gutters and drywells were asked for by
the CAC.
MR. MCGREEVY: I think the reason behind it, Dave, was the width of
the French drain coming into consideration wouldn't serve the
purpose for proper drainage. I'm not positive on that but I think
that's the reasoning behind it.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I see here drainage calculations have been provided
by the applicant that shows the square footage of the roof and
factoring in the amount of runoff that could come off of that in a
two-and-a-half inch rainfall, the size of the French drains that
are required. So it appears as though, from a engineering
perspective, that they have addressed that here; that this French
drain, according to their drainage calculations, would meet the
drainage code of two-and-a-half inch rain.
MR. CONDON: The owner doesn't want to install gutters and leaders
either. I tried to convince her of that.
TRUSTEE KING: We had a similar situation on Fishers Island where
the gentleman didn't want to put gutters and leaders because he
thought they were ugly and he devised a French drain around it and
actually had that piped into drywells.
MR. CONDON: Most of the roof has about atwo-foot overhang so I
have intention to put the gravel drain right under the roof line so
it drips right into the gravel drain.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: As long as it conforms with the code, which it
does. Would the applicant be willing to use non-treated wood in
the deck?
MR. CONDON: Yes, 1 could bring that up, no ACO in that. Yes.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Because I'm trying to address the LWRP
inconsistency, and if we use non-treated wood that would address
Board of Trustees 30 March 19, 2008
the LWRP inconsistency.
MR. CONDON: I could see what else we could use. I think we were
intending on using treated lumber at least on the post, at the very
minimum.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I notice there is a hay bale line depicted on the
plan here. That's good. Would the applicant be willing to, there
is an elevation six foot that runs along part of that hay bale
line, from that area seaward, which is a vegetated dune area, leave
that as anon-disturbance area, is that something the applicant
would be willing to do?
MR. CONDON: Seaward of elevation six?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Seaward of elevation six. Right now I see on the
plans it says listed as vegetated dune area going to the high tide
mark. There is a path, I don't know the width of the path, but we
would allow afour-foot path through there for access to the beach
if we could just leave that as anon-disturbance area.
MR. CONDON: I think that's fine.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Are there any other questions from the Board?
TRUSTEE KING: Nope.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Anybody else want to make any comments?
MR. MCGREEVY: With the French drains, I'm not that familiar with it
but don't they fill up very quickly? They have to be maintained on
a pretty regular basis so that they function properly; am I correct
in stating that?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Again, in the calculations there is also the depth
of the French drain is calculated in to handle the two-and-a-half
inch rain. And this is a very sandy area, so I think given the
calculations that he's listed here, I'm not an engineer, given the
calculations that are listed here with the depth and the fact it's
in a very sandy area I think it would take a rainfall greater than
two-and-a-half inches and our drainage code calls for
two-and-a-half inch rainfall that we have to have drainage
mitigation done to handle two-and-a-half inch rainfall.
MR. MCGREEVY: The construction of French drains, are they also
attached to a drywell at one end for gravity feed?
MR. CONDON: The way it works, is you have larger stone, the blue
stone, and there is voids between the stone and the water will fill
up between the voids.
MR. MCGREEVY: So that serves the purpose instead of a drywell which
it would ordinarily go into.
MR. CONDON: Yes
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I have some reservations with that, but, if it's to
code, I suppose I don't have anything to say about it.
TRUSTEE KING: What don't you like about it.
Boazd of Trustees 31 Mazch 19, 2008
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Well, it's one thing, the French drains have to be
pretty big if you are not going to have onsite storage. If there
is not going to be any drywells involved, I mean you'll have to
have a huge French drain. My whole front yard is essentially a
French drain.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Would you like to take a look at the plans? The
French drain, pass that down to Bob, and here is another one, you
could see the French drain as proposed goes all the way around the
perimeter of the house and it's 24 inches wide and 15 inches deep.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It's like a moat.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Bob, we can always put a stipulation on it we can
inspect it in a year and see how it's working.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Or if it's not --
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: If it doesn't work, he'll have to put in drywells.
MR. MCGREEVY: Just a consideration, Jim, if it's the esthetics the
owner is really concerned about, and our concern is that topography
of the land and the drainage toward the water, why not just for an
additional small cost put in a catch at the water side of the
building at the end of the French drain? If it's esthetics they
are concerned about.
MR. CONDON: There is a dune in front of the property, too, so the
water won't actually make it. There is a dune in front.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: On the plans here is the elevation increasing
seaward of the structure.
TRUSTEE KING: It's almost a hundred feet from the high water mark.
Actually, it's 63.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: To me, as proposed, would I prefer leaders and
gutters to drywells, yes. But this French drain system as proposed
according to the drainage calculations will meet code.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: We can stipulate if it doesn't maintain the
water on the property then it has to be modified.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I don't know if you heard what was just said. If it
turns out this does not maintain the drainage from the house on the
property as the code requires, that that would have to be taken
care of, it would have to be mediated later.
MR. CONDON: Okay.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: If there are no other comments I'll make a motion
to close this public hearing.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'll make a motion to approve the application of
Mary Ann Mears for the wetland permit located at 1050 Dean Drive in
Cutchogue with the stipulation that there will be non-treated
lumber used for the construction of the deck and there will be a
non-disturbance area from elevation six feet seaward to the high
Board of Trustees 32 March 19, 2008
water mark, of course allowing afour-foot path, and with those
modifications we deem it to be consistent under the LWRP.
Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Do you want to do a one-year inspection under the
drainage code?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Okay, we'll ask for an inspection in one year, in
other words in March of 2009, to make sure that this French drain
has sufficed the Chapter 236 of the Town Drainage Code.
MR. CONDON: Okay.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
MR. CORCORAN: Have you been the to ZBA on this yet?
MR. CONDON: Yes. Thank you.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Number six, Patricia Moore on behalf of IRA NAGEL
requests a Wetland Permit to construct a swimming pool, patio and
planters. Located: 2200 Broadwaters Road, Cutchogue.
We have all gone and seen this. LWRP determination is that it
is consistent with LWRP. CAC supports the application.
Before I go any further, do we want to table this because of
the violation?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We can hold a hearing but we can't move on it.
MS. MOORE: Honestly, I just got a phone call from Don and he asked
if I could accept service, but I couldn't reach my client. He was
away. So this is a not my client, this is a friend that is helping
out. As soon as he gets back, I don't think there is a problem. I
think we'll get this resolved pretty quickly. It was partly
administrative, you know, they miscalculated where the wetland
lines were. What are you going to do.
TRUSTEE KING: I believe when the application was filled out to the
Building Department, they checked off no, there was no wetlands
within a hundred feet
MS. MOORE: Because they miscalculated. He was looking at the high
tide line as the wetland line. That's the only answer I could
give.
TRUSTEE KING: That is still within the 100 feet even if you go out
in the water it's 100 feet
TRUSTEE BERGEN: There is a 50 foot difference here. You would be
well out into the water to get that hundred foot.
MS. MOORE: I have no with idea how they came to the conclusion. I
got involved way after the project itself.
MR. CORCORAN: We don't have to belabor that. The point today, we
can open the hearing but there can't be a determination.
MS. MOORE: What you can do is shelve the permit and we can resolve
it and as soon as it's resolved you can release it.
MR. CORCORAN: The Trustees --
Board of Trustees 33 March 19, 2008
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We can close the hearing and reserve decision.
MS. MOORE: So then just let me know.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: Why don't we move forward with the public hearing
and --
MS. MOORE: That's fine. I think Jim has been at the site.
TRUSTEE KING: We all have been.
MS. MOORE: Okay. I know when it was being flagged you were out
there and David was there, so I think he described the patio area
and so on. I think my advice to the client was that these pavers,
some of the pavers we actually eliminated so, to make it grass. I
don't know if you know that or not. I think Jim was made aware of
that. I don't know if you passed that information on. Do you
recall?
TRUSTEE KING: I talked in the field with this gentleman here.
MS. MOORE: The area on the landscape plan, that's the pool and
landscape plan that was prepared by Pal Pools and Spa, dated
January'08, that drawing shows the area of the patio, the pool and
the area that is described as pavers where the table is shown, that
would be actually retained as grass, so. You should have this.
This there you go.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Just to reiterate, LWRP did find this consistent,
determined it was consistent. We all have been out to see it. CAC
resolved to support the application with the condition that drywell
is installed to contain pool backwash and the bank bluff is
stabilized prior to the continuance of the pool installation. The
Trustees all went out and we were asking for a restoration plan and
that you put a 50-foot non-disturbance buffer. Those are the only
comments that we have out in the field.
MS. MOORE: Okay.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: What plans did LWRP review, Bob? Do you know?
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: LWRP, this is dated March 18, found it consistent.
Doesn't say what plans.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: It was yesterday, so they would not have the
latest information in.
MS. MOORE: Yes, where the wetland line is, I don't think there is a
problem with meeting those conditions because as I have measured
it, the pool with the five-foot distance between the end of the
pool and the planter is close to the area that is at the 50 feet,
more or less. (Indicating.)
The pool, from my measurement, starts over here where the
concrete appears to be here and when you go out, I think it's an
18x36 pool, then there is a five-foot patio area, and then a
retaining wall. So it appears to have everything within that
50-foot measurement. I took a 50-foot from this line.
Boazd of Trustees 34 Mazch 19, 2008
TRUSTEE KING: It would be nice to have just kind of, from that line
to extend on the other property, you know what I mean, to keep
everything uniform, same non-disturbance area in the front. It
would look nice.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: This 50 feet is what?
MS. MOORE: I took it from the wetland. I measured with a ruler
from the wetland line, 50 feet. I took that line along so I would
know approximately, you know, from the flags.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: We have in the field notes we measured to here is
65 feet. So it's approximately 15 feet.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: That was the only issue is the restoration plan.
MS. MOORE: The retaining wall is landward of the 50 feet, so what
it appears to be.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: What Jim is saying, it would be nice if the
retaining walls matched up.
MS. MOORE: It's very different. They'll be close.
TRUSTEE KING: Looking down, you could make it.
MS. MOORE: Plus we have, the retaining walls we have is a planter
as well, so we'll have some vegetation also incorporated into it.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Where is the retaining wall, on planting plan?
MS. MOORE: Yes. The planters are about 30 inches. So you have the
pool five feet for the patio area around the pool and then the
planters are 30 inches in width or depth.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Pat, looking at the planting plan, the landscape
design, on the left, as I'm looking at the residence on the
planting plan, from the seaward side, on the left-hand side, is
that a retaining wall going up the whole length?
MR. STEWART: Yes.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: What's the reason for that?
MS. MOORE: Why don't you come up and get on the record since you
are more familiar.
MR. STEWART: David Stewart.
MS. MOORE: The retaining wall that comes around here, how high,
that sounds, just -- because the patio, you can see the elevations
go from 25 to 24 and down.
MR. STEWART: On the plans, because there is a drop off from the
property line to the next door neighbor's property line, so it will
start off on the plans, on the side here it says 24-inch stone
wall. That's going to be your retaining wall, because there is a
height elevation that is different between the two property lines.
MS. MOORE: Sorry, we can't hear you here.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: It looks to me like when we were there on the site,
what we are looking at was a lot of fill brought in here so it kind
of looked like it was a kind of created berm.
Board of Trustees
35 March 19, 2008
MS. MOORE: No, there is no fill at all. That's just from the pool.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I just don't see the reason for the retaining wall
to go the whole length.
MR. STEWART: It's going to end -- can I come up?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Sure.
MR. STEWART: According to the calculations, the retaining wall will
end right over here. That's where the height elevations is playing
out. We have a land surveyor coming there with the measurements
and calculations.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: This side is higher.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: It says page three.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: How high will it be?
MR. STEWART: 1 believe it will be 24 to 30 inches depending on the
height of everything else that is going around. We try to match to
the lowest point of the grade of the neighbors. You know what I'm
saying? We are trying to blend it all in so it looks very nice.
We don't want a big wall. The two friends, two kids are friends
next door of both houses and they'll be in each other's pool
playing back and forth.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We see a wall on a plan and sometimes when it's
built and you go out there and it's high
MR. STEWART: It says 24-inch stone wall which won't be stone no
more. It will probably railroad ties or whatever you guys
recommend.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Okay.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: About the pavers where the patio area is --
MR. STEWART: Around the pool?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: No, the one with the plans.
MR. STEWART: That will be grass. We are changing that to grass.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Okay. That's what I was going to ask; how
pervious it was.
MR. STEWART: Just put on sand. Pavers will be put on sand.
TRUSTEE KING: Are those the same plans that you have?
MS. MOORE: Yes.
MR. STEWART: There is only one copy, one set of plans.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Any other questions or comments from the Board?
(No response.)
Questions or comments from the audience?
(No response.)
I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: So we'll do a 50-foot non-disturbance area.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes
MS. MOORE: Just keep the path, if you would.
TRUSTEE KING: With afour-foot access path.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
Boazd of Trustees 36 Mazch 19, 2008
(ALL AYES.)
MS. MOORE: So Ira and I will have a little chat.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: So we'll reserve decision.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: I'll make a motion to reserve decision on this
until the violation has been taken care of.
MS. MOORE: And if the violation -- I'm assuming April 2 or 4.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: April 4 is still open. I talked to Don. He'll
try to write it in for that. We'll try to coordinate with them so
they get the court dates before our next meeting so we don't hold
them off an extra month.
MS. MOORE: Good. We have the soil is stockpiled there and it's not
a good situation, so.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Hopefully we can take care of it within a month.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Do I have a second?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.).
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Costello Marine on behalf of THOMAS GIESE requests
a Wetland Permit to remove the remains of existing wooden dock, cut
down 32'+/- of existing bulkhead to grade level, construct a 4x12'
walkway onto a 4x34' fixed dock with a 3x20' "L" section decked to
46" wide at offshore end. Located: 5860 Skunk Lane, Cutchogue.
LWRP finds this inconsistent and CAC recommends existing
bulkhead be removed and the area be cleaned up and revegetated; the
shoreline should be left in its natural state.
We all went out there again to look at this and is there any
comment?
MR. COSTELLO: Yes. May name is John Costello. We are the agents
for this application for Thomas Giese. And after discussions and
finding out that the Board had previous litigation with one of the
neighbors, that I did not know at the time, and they eliminated,
they would wish to eliminate any floating docks that would protrude
out into the harbor. I have redesigned and the discussion is, the
description that was just read into the record is basically correct
with one minor change. The offshore "L", the 20-foot "L" is only
three foot wide but it will be decked to 46 inches. The deck will
stick over just so that someone does not fall off. They'll be
going around each of the pilings.
I recommended cutting the bulkhead off. 1 had a brief
discussion with Jill on the job. I would rather not remove the
bulkhead in its entirety because of the erosion that would occur to
the roadway, possibly, in the future. And that is anon-functional
bulkhead, but if cutting it off as low as possible, we can cut it
Board of Trustees 37 March 19, 2008
underwater, to allow a depth of water on one side without the
intrusion of the fill going back overboard. We are willing to do
that.
The DEC seems to be in the same vein. They do not want that
non-functional bulkhead to be built. The one reason we made the
original application was that it's so close to the road, the tide
is rising to some degree, I hope it doesn't impact the road, but,
you know, I'm not elevating the road and I'm not going to do
anything with that. But I think the functionality of using the
property, the DEC recommended taking the railway out. I think we
would have more impact taking it out. It is certainly usable on
two times a year to either put a boat up or put a boat down. It's
not a shipyard. It's a residential. You could get the boat out of
the water and leave it there. It beats a boat lift. It beats
anything else. It's all fixed structures and they do not, none of
the structures protrude out past the adjoining piling on the both
neighboring docks.
What we did is draw a line between the offshore piling and we
kept 12 feet within those structures so that the width of a boat
tied on the "L" will not protrude out past the piling. So we are
12 foot inboard of any of those pilings. And I have plans, I have
photographs, I have whatever the Board would like.
TRUSTEE KING: John, any thoughts of cutting down the other
bulkheads to look more like a groin; cut them down to grade?
MR. COSTELLO: I don't think it serves any purpose but if the owner
can afford it, you know, they are not doing any detriment. It's
not like they are building a beach. They are not doing, I don't
know, but they are still, right now, they are in reasonably
functional shape there.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm thinking it might help some of the consistency by
getting rid of those and naturalize the beach and putting it back
in more of a natural condition without those there.
MR. COSTELLO: I would not take them out if I were you. I would not
suggest taking them out. Because there is a difference on one side
of that wall to the other side of the wall, there is probably about
16-inch difference in water depth so, you know, it would erode, it
would level off. It serves a minimal purpose. Eventually, I doubt
if you would ever get an approval to put it back in, and eventually
it would, it would either have to be lowered or taken out or
another timber put on.
TRUSTEE KING: I would like to see it cut off at grade, myself.
Any thoughts of a "T" dock rather than an "L"?
MR. COSTELLO: You can't make it a "T" because of the offset of the
property line projecting over. I mean, I'm saying 15 off the
property line. You know, that is a dictating factor that we tried to --
TRUSTEE KING: That's other issue we have to get into, extending
Board of Trustees 38 March 19, 2008
these property lines, because I don't agree with extending it out
at that same angle as what is on land.
MR. COSTELLO: Well, I want to try to stay off the property line,
which -- you know. It's not my design. I would rather have it be
closer to the property line, but that would just be the movement of it.
I believe Jim is right on that but, it is what it is.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: How do the railroad ties get used it if it's in
an "L" shape?
MR. COSTELLO: You have to come in high tide and come around it.
You can. You are not going to bring a big boat. A 24-foot boat,
maybe. Any questions the Board has, address them to me and I'll
try to answer them.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: The LWRP report is based on the original
application.
TRUSTEE KING: They don't have an aerial survey of the whole area.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We have the soundings.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm trying to figure out where the channel is.
MR. COSTELLO: The channel has to be offshore of that otherwise
everybody else is protruding into it.
TRUSTEE KING: I'm looking at the direction of the channel is what
I'm looking at, John. I'm into this property line issue. I know
if you have, say this channel runs like this --
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: The LWRP's main comment it's a sensitive
critical environmental area.
MR. COSTELLO: It does have some wetlands.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I think the whole area is considered very
sensitive. I'm just saying that's what the LWRP's main point is.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: I'm familiar with this channel. I've navigated it
with my boat. A lot of times it does go straight along.
MR. COSTELLO: Yes, I saw you aground there several times.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: That's a way to score points.
MR. COSTELLO: So you lose one vote.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: See where the mooring is, all the moorings are on
that side, so the channel is pretty much down the center.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Where are you with DEC, John?
MR. COSTELLO: DEC just wants the removal of the bulkhead, and we
are trying to have it cut off. So far there is no response.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: They are okay with the dock and the "L"?
MR. COSTELLO: They have not had a comment on that. But they will
not allow the bulkhead to be rebuilt. They want the bulkhead
basically removed, and I'll try and persuade them into --
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: So they won't discuss the dock until you have
dealt with the bulkhead?
MR. COSTELLO: We are in discussion with the DEC but it's not
concluded.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Is there any consideration of making the "L"
Board of Trustees 39 Mazch 19, 2008
section a little bit shorter; instead of 20 feet, a little
shorter?
MR. COSTELLO: For what purpose?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Just for less structure.
MR. COSTELLO: That's why I tried to narrow it up. I know the
intention.
TRUSTEE BERGEN: What we are looking at is the depth, in drawing a
line between the two adjoining docks, making sure you don't go out
further than that and projecting that's where the depth would be
(Perusing).
MR. COSTELLO: I think the boat lying parallel on the channel is a
little better than going outside. Or backing into it.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Is the new one staked?
TRUSTEE BERGEN: The outer end was not staked.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I didn't think we saw the stakes in the water.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Do you want to see it staked here and here?
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: I think so. That's what I'm saying.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: John, can you have it staked on the outer corners
of the "L"?
MR. COSTELLO: I could do whatever you would like.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: And maybe meet us out there and we can discuss
out there.
MR. COSTELLO: Sure. And if you want to keep the discussion open,
I'll contact the owner about either removing a portion of those
wings or lowering it. Because, you know, the only real degree of
deterioration is in the top edge. I mean, you know, if you want it
lowered to some degree, 1 certainly would not suggest giving up
whatever rights.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: I don't know that you want to cut them down too
much because then if they are under water it becomes a hazard.
MR. COSTELLO: The wings I would not cut under water, but I would
lower them.
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: All right, I'll make a motion that we table this
so we can re-inspect it and meet Mr. Costello out in the field and
see it staked.
TRUSTEE DICKERSON: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: So on the 9th we'll meet you out there.
MR. COSTELLO: Someone will call my office?
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: Yes. Is there anyone else that wants to comment?
(No response.)
MR. COSTELLO: I have a question of Peggy, if it is. If that's the
conclusion of the meeting
TRUSTEE DOHERTY: We have not made a motion to go off the meeting
yet.
Board of Trustees 40 March 19, 2008
TRUSTEE KING: I think that's the end of it. I'll make a motion we
go off the meeting.
TRUSTEE GHOSIO: Second.
TRUSTEE KING: All in favor?
(ALL AYES.)
RECEIVED ` F111.E~
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JUN 192008
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Southold Town Clerk