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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-12/05/1988Town Hall, 5309~ Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold, New York ! 1971 TELEPHONE (516} 765-1938 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Planning Board Minutes December 5, 1988 The Southold Town Planning Board held a regular meeting on Monday, December 5, 1988 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold. PRESENT Chairman Bennett Or~owski,Jr. Member William F. Mullen,Jr. Member G. Ritchie Latham,Jr. Member Richard G. Ward Member Kenneth Edwards Town Planner Valerie Scopaz Assistant Planner Mslissa Spiro Secretary Jill Thorp Mr. Orlowski: I would like to call this meeting to order. The first order of business is Peter Blank- Public hearing on the final maps dated as amended October 14, 1988. This minor subdivision is on 1~0,000. sq.ft, located at Orient. SCTM ~1000-27~4-p/o 10.1. Everything is in order at this time for a public hearing. We have proof Of publication in the Suffolk Times and also in the Long Island Traveler/Watchman. I will ask if there are any objections to this subdivision? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this subdivision? Mr. Angel: We endorse this subdivision. Mr. Blank and I are here to answer any questions the Board might have. Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements? Any one out there neither pro nor con, but would have information pertaining to this subdivision that would be of interest to this Board? Any questions from the Board? Mr. Mullen? Mr. Latham? Mr. Ward? Mr. Edwards? Response of the Board; No. Mr. Orlowski: No further comments or questions, this hearing closed. I will declare Planning Board Page 2 December 5, 1988 Mr. Orlowski: Walsh Park- Board to keep the public hearing from October 14, 1988 open, pending receipt of revised preliminary maps. This affordable housing project is located on Fishers Island. SCTM $1000-6-2-3.1. Do you have any comments on that, Mr. Edwards? Mr. Edwards: Yes, they had the maps a week ago, but there were a few things missing. I told them to put them on before they hand them in. Mr. Orlowski: Alright, we will keep the ~hlic hearing open. Board to set Monday, December 19, at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Latham: Move it. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen,. Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Frank Born- Board to review the endorsement of the maps dated as amended June 10, 1988. This parcel is on 6.369 acres at Southold. SCT~ ~1000-55-2-25. Do you think this is O.K. to sign? This was approved March 21st subject to drainage review and a letter of credit has been accepted by the Town Board. What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Latham: So moved. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Multen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Mary Bonkoski- Board to review the endorsement of the maps dated as amended October 8, 1987. This set off is on 19.944 acres located at Cutchogue. SCTM 91000-101-2-24.1 & 24.2. Planning Board Page 3 December 5, 1988 Everything is order to endorse these maps. The mylars are coming, but everything else is here. What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Latham: So movedl Mr. Mullen: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. ****************************** Mr. Orlowski: North Grove Estates- Board to make a determination on the preliminary maps for this major subdivision on 46.5712 acres located at Cutchogue. SCTM ~1000-95-4-4.1. What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I Would like to make a resolution of approval as to these preliminary maps with the following statements: That the Planning Board feels that the continuation of Gold Spur's Street and the proposed ingress and egress at Alvah's Lane will provide a convenient, adequate safe road layout for the proposed subdivision. The Board feels that the majority of the residence of the proposed~deue~opment will use the tap road to Alvah's Lane rather the access through Oregon View Estates, as this would be a more direct access to County Route 48. The Board also feels that the continuation of Gold Spur's will provide a relief valve for Oregon View Estates, increasing the level of public safety of the residents living within this subdivision. Throughout the Town, both in past and present subdivisions, tap roads have been provided for future access for adjacent parcels as is the case for Gold Spur's Street. The Board feels that the revised layout, the road access at Alvah's Lane instead of Oregon Road, adequately mitigates the concerns of the residents of Oregon View Estates for both reasons. The Planning Board has also reviewed correspondence from the Suffolk County Planning Co~mission which states that the rearrangement of the proposed road layouts will result in better traffic flow control within that area. For those stated reasons I move that we except the preliminary plan. Mr. Orlowski: I would just like to add one thing. If you look at the map on lot 13, I think we could eliminate that piece... We can move it back. Mr. Edwards: I'll second it. Mr. Orlowski: We have a motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Planning Board Page 4 December 5, 1988 Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Gatz and McDowell- Board to start the coordination process to determine Lead Agency and Environmental Significance. This major subdivision is on 30.3565 acres located at Cutchogue. SCTM ~1000-95-4-7 &14. Mr. Latham: So moved. Mr. Mullen: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Frank & Myrtle Hendrickson- Board to start the coordination process to determine Lead Agency and Environmental Significance. This lot line change is located on Calves Neck Road at Southold. SCTM $1000-70-4-43,44,45. Mr. Edwards: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: The Hamlet at Cutchogue- Board to review the Draft Environmental Impact Statement for completeness. This site plan is located at Cutchogue. SCTM $1000-102-1-33.3. Mr. Emilita, our reviewer, has asked for a thirty day eXtension to January 9th at which time we will make a determination at our January 9th meeting. What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Latham: So moved. Mr. Mullen: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Planning Board Page 5 December 5, 1988 Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Marina Bay Club- Board to review Supplement Number two of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement for completeness. This site plan is located at New Suffolk. SCTM ~1000-i17-8-18. At this time the Supplement is complete and we can accept it and open the thirty day co~ent period. Mr. Edwards: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. At this time we can set the hearing for December 19th, at 7:30. Mr. Edwards: So moved. Mr. Mullen: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Franktinville- Board to review the negative declaration that was granted on November 14, 1988. This major subdivision is on 35.8 acres located at Laurel. SCTM ~1000-125-2-2.2. At this time we have to rescind our negative dec. as told to us by the State Department of Environmental Conservation who wrote the law. We can not grant a negative dec. subject to. Mr. Latham: I move to rescind the negative declaration. Mr. Mullen: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. At this time we are asking for a site specific sediment and erosion control plan. After we receive it and it is reviewed we will make our determination. Planning Board Page 6 December 5, 1988 Mr. Orlowski: Hiawatha's Path- Board to review the conditional negative declaration that was granted on November 14, 1988. This minor subdivision is Town owned property on 1.9769 acres located at Southotd. SCTM 91000-78-3-51. This too has the same problem. We have to rescind it and start the lead agency process to determine environmental significance. Mr. Mullen: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded to rescind the motion of November 14th. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. I will entertain the motion to start the coordination process. Mr. Mullen: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. At this time I would like to grant sketch approval subject to Health Department approval. Mr. Ward: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Robert and Sidney Olmsted- Board to make a determination under the State Environmental Quality Review Act. This minor subdivision is on 3+ acres located at Mattituck. SCTM ~i000-114-7-14. At this time everything is in order for a negative dec, Mr. Edwards: So mo~ed. Mr. Ward: Second. Planning Board Page 7 December 5, 1988 Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Mullen, Latham, ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered° I abstain for reasons I have given previously. Mr. Orlowski: Cliffside/Tidemark- Board to request that David Emilita prepare a Final Environmental Impact Statement. Mr. Raynor: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, might I address you just a moment in regard to this. Before the Board makes a determination in regard to the Final Environmental Impact Statement, that under SEQRA, they could consider a negative declaration~ which is an option of this Board at this time. This has been in the process for an excess of four years and as a result of lack of public controversy of this issue I would ask that the Board consider a negative declaration. The Board will also bare in mind that, if possible, we would like to get in front of the Zoning Board of Appeals, as this actiQn requires a special exception by this Board. I would ask you to take both of those items into consideration. Thank you. Mr. Ward: I move that we prepare a Final Environmental Impact Statement. Traffic impacts alone are consideration enough. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Hanoch and Watts- Board to review the Suffolk CountyPlanning Commission report dated NoVember 7, 1988. This minor subdivision is on 12.623 acres located at Cutchogue. SCTM $1000-101-1-i4.1. The Suffolk County Planning Commission disapproved the layout and we also talked to the DOT, they are not allowing.any curb cuts on County Route 48. Dave Kapell is here representing the applicant. He might have some input first. Mr. Kapell: I was hoping maybe I can get some guidance from you. Mr. Orlowski: No. It looks like you are back to square one. Mr. Kapell: This has really become a confusing application. Just to back track a minute. If you recall we had sketch map approval on this property for four lots, subsequently the time period Planning Board Page 8 December 5, 1988 elapsed and we were asked to reapply, which we did° In the reapplication we propose, now, three lots. We eliminated the line between the two northerly lots. The reason for this factly was in response to the Town's increase in the requirements for a road in a minor subdivision. The people that own this subdivision are not wealthy people. The burden of the new road would have thrown it out of the realm of possibility. That is why they gave up a lot in order to have three lots that would not require a road. This latest term of events is really a significant set back for us. Also the position of the County Department of Transportation and the County Planning Board or at least the Town Planning Board's reaction to the County Planning Board's comments are contradictory, in that, as a result not being able to use County Route 48. Having building envelopes all the way to the front, actually exacerbates the problem that is already bad for us. I want to bring one point to the Board's attention. I have not come up against this before so I am really asking a question that you may not know the answer. There is an existing access driveway out to County Route 48 from this property. It is about ten or 'twelve feet wide. It is in front of the framed building that is shown on the map. Which by the way we have no intention of using, I mean the building we have no intention of using. I wonder if we have some entitlement to access as a result of the fact that there is existing access there? Mr. Orlowski: I can't answer that. It is up to the County, and they are pretty strict on these accesses. Mr. Ward: I think our building envelope requirement is that we are not really saying where to put them. It is a response to the fact that the County is looking to create open space. We thought maybe you can designate where you want the building envelopes by mitigating the cluster concept too...maybe it should be changed. There still is a piece of land to be subdivided off of Alvah's lane. Mr. Kapelt: That we rap around. Mr. Ward: It my be worth talking to the people. If they came in, if there was a cluster and let them put a read and have a cul-de-sac here maybe that would solve the problem. I am not saying that it will be a final result maybe it is worth exploring. (disc. Re: Map put in front of P.B.) Mr. Kapell: We can certainly contact them. I want to point out to you that one of the two people that own this property has already installed grape vines in this back portion, so these fellows really don't have an intent in the short term of developing the property. The other thing is, frankly, what I think the net result that could be is that there is nothing to be gained now by .giving up the forth lot as a result of the County's requirement that we come in from Alvah's Lane. I think we probably are going to come back with a four lot subdivision. Planning Board Page 9 December 5, 1988 Which in a way is unfortunate, because there was an opportunity here to cut the density back one lot. Nobody has any ideas in regards to the route 48 problem? Mr. Orlowski: I guess you can make an appeal. Mr. Kapell: I think that is exactly what I would like to do. Is to go down and see Mr. Baker and first of all, is to ask him the question I have asked you about the existing access. Mr. Orlowski: You only need one access in the middle and that would be their only driveway for all parcels. Mr. Kapetl: Do you suppose that there would be a way to create an access from the easterly side from where the existing access is? Mr. Orlowski: No, but maybe one right smack in the middle of the two lots and use that as a common access to 48. We would like to see those building envelopes set pretty far back off of 48. Mr. Kapell: Two hundred feet, you said. Mr. Ward: If you would like to go further that is fine. Mr. Orlowski: That can be part of your deal, is that the houses are going to be set way back. There will be a middle driveway to access them. Mr. Kapell: Split off a single access. Mr. Orlowski: Right. Mr. Kapell: What I would like to ask the Board at this time is if it would be possible to come back at the December 19th meeting. By then I would have had a chance to go down to the Department of Public Works and speak with Mr. Baker. Mr. Orlowski: That is fine. Mr. Kapell: Thank you very much for your time. Mr. Orlowski: Next we have Tim Gray- Board to review the Suffolk County Planning Commission report dated November 7, 1988. This minor s~bdivision is on 9.1568 acres located at Southold. SCTM 91000-58-1-2. We didn't have any problem with anything in this report except number five. It says in five that the primary dune should not be disturbed in any manor, except in construction in suitable access to the beach, by any general construction, clearing of vegetation, or grading; especially that clearing and grading of the dune to provide a view of the sea. There shall not be any restriction placed on any valid Planning Board Page 10 December 5, 1988 effort to preserve and rebuild the dune nor should there be any restriction against removal of dead, decaying, deceased and obnoxious vegetation that may crowd out or kill off other vegetation. Mr. Ward: This is the building site of what is proposed on this. If we went along with this provision he wouldn't be able to build his house where it shows on the plan. I feel that all the other conditions from Suffolk County can be complied with. This primary dune that they are talking about is some five or six hundred feet back from the high water. The house being put there Will stabilize it. Ms. Scopaz: Would the Board want to substitute a condition of its own that imposes some conditions that it feels are valid? I understand what your p~oblem with that is. Would you want to substitute something of your own in place of that? Mr. Ward: I think possibly that a site plan be filed to show how it is going to be. In other words at that particular time. It puts it in the Building Departments realm. He certainly is not going to blow it away, because he wants the view, I would assume. But the way this is written, you would not be allowed to put a house on it. I think the clearest thing is to leave it out and override it and ask for a site specific plan to be filed showing what is intended. Ms. Scopaz: The primary dune was the first one that you hit as you walk out of the woods. The only thing is that you might want to say something ~hout that they should have some kind of board walk or something on the sand to minimize damage to the wetland areas for the main traffic to and from the house. There was another house further down the beach where they were driving four wheeled vehicles up and down the beach. Maybe you would want to have some statement to the effect that they consider using board walk areas to protect the integrity of the remainder of the dune system there. Mr. Orlowski: I think with the revised maps that we have asked for showing the building envelopes also C & Rs on only one driveway should take care of it. Mr. Ward: I thought the only one that would be a problem would be number five with the report. Mr. 0rlowski: Do you want to make a motion to approve this? Mr. Ward: Motion to override number five and accept one, two, three, four and six, sevenr eight. So moved. Mr. Mullen: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Planning Board Page 11 December 5, 1988 Vote of the Board: Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. The applicant knows that we are looking for those building envelopes and also the C & Rs on the driveway. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. on to discussions. Next we have RHR Realty- Bo&rd to discuss this applicationwith the appliCant. This minor subdivision is on 12.6351 acres located at Southold. SCTM $10~0-59-3-16.1. Mr. Rapp: Good evening my name is Rob Rapp. I am attorney from Port Jefferson and also a partner in the proposeddevelopment of this 12 acre site. Originally, we obtained a letter from the Planning Board back in December, .1986 which approved the subdivision. The configuration at that time showed a driveway along the easterly side of the property, which driveway would service two lots. The approval that I got in December of 86 was contingent upon Health Department approval. Which we there after obtained but I was told then that my sketch plan approval had expired, The staff then informed me that we would have to start all over again with a new application, which we did. In the interim we were approached by Greenpo~t Water District who is desirous of purchasing approximately two acres on the site for a pumping station. The contract of sale .has been entered into with Greenport to enable them to put that pumping station there. Thereafter, in conferences with staff, it was requested ~hat we dedicate to the Town the fifty foot strip through here, all the way up to here. Six hundred feet by fifty.feet wide. I indicated at that time that we have no problem with that since it did not effect the yield. It made the large lots a little smaller, but they are still oversized. I then received a letter from the Planning Board asking me to submit road and drainage profiles. For a road, apparently along this fifty foo~ strip. That I complied with. I was told, I have to post a fifty nine thousand ~ollar bond. Finally water sank through the rack and apparently it appears to me that the Planning Board wants me to put a twenty two foot road there. What I am questioning is the need for that to be put in. For the simple reason is that if you look at the upper corner here, there are two large parcels immediately to the east of me, which som~ day would very much like to see a road or right-of-way or something there. I had no problem with this. I don't mind giving the fifty feet of property. I~fail to see why I have to put in a road. The original plan called for a driveway. I have no problem doing that. I will dedicate the property to the Town and reserve an easement for my driveway till such time ~a road gets installed there. That is the purpose for this matter being on the agenda. Mr. Orlowski: It would have to become a flag lot in order to be used as a driveway. Planning Board Page 12 December 5, 1988 Mr. Rapp: I think we are doing our part with the dedication. It would seem to me that that would be fair enough. Mr. Ward: Would the road be for the entire stretch? Mr. Rapp: Not quite six hundred feet. We had to stay away from the wetlands area. The road would go up approximately five hundred feet. The thing that puzzles me is the original sketch plan did not require that. Mr. Ward: I think for the intents of the layout, that it runs with a turn around intersecting with lot four and not develope it through. It would be the responsibility of the future developer, who would have to connect it. You would have to have a road that might be substantial as a cross road. What I am saying is that if you come up with fifty or sixty percent and develop a turn around here for this to service this and not develop this. What you are saying is that you are being penalize for because you are extending this. (disc. map in front of P.B.). Mr. Rapp: Basically, yes. What I am doing is being asked to provided the access for two much larger parcels. This one here is twenty four, twenty five acres. Mr. Ward: Whereas, if you came in here and developed a turn around to serve these lots and not the back lots. Mr. Rapp: Correct me if I am wrong, but whoever develops this piece and this piece sooner or later, wouldn't they have to put a fifty foot road in there? Mr. Ward: Eventually. Mr. Rapp: I am being asked to put in about half of one. For lack of a better description. Ail the way up here, merely to service the one lot. Mr. Ward: What we are saying is that also these are our current standards for a minor subdivision road. Other then that if you just dead end it here you could...Part of the reason is also that it is the same basis that it is not quite as wide. It puts some options on the servicing. It allows easy extension... Mr. Rapp: I guess the question I am asking is what you are asking us to install with that will be ripped out at some point? Mr. Ward: No, it would just be added too. Mr. Rapp: Is there some term that you use that describes what kind of road you want me to put in? Is it the one I had spec.'d out? Planning Board Page 13 December 5, 1988 Mr. Ward: I believe that it is. It is just that it would be essentially the same hookup. It would serve what we are doing right now and not penalize the next person. Mr. Rapp: That is all I have to say. Is there any questions that anybody has got? Mr. Orlowski: Well, I think by using that turn around you will probably shorten what you have got in there. That is the best way to do it. Mr. Rapp: Pave up to the northern boundary of lot four? Mr. Orlowski: Right. Mr. Rapp: Does this have to be paved? Mr. Orlowski: To the Specs. The minor subdivision spec. Mr. Rapp: Is that the number that the Town Engineer reflected on? The minor subdivision specs? Ms. Scopaz: They are not called min6r subdivision specs. They are called alternative road specs. Mr. Rapp: Do you know how many feet that this estimate covers? Mr. Orlowski: What ever you gave us. Mr. Rapp: Just one more questions, where am I with respect to approval here? What is le~t? Do I have to post a bond? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. If you want to go along with this. Do you have maps with Health Department approval? Mr. Rapp: Yes. Mr. Orlowski: We .need them. We don't have any. Mr. Rapp: O.K. Mr. Orlowski: We have a bond estimate, so we can make a motion to send it to the Town Board for their approval. Mr. Rapp: Do you take letters of credit? Mr. Ortowski: Yes. Ms. Spiro: Do you have the fire well locations? Mr. Rapp: Yes. Ms. Spiro: That has to be on the final maps. Planning Board Page 14 December 5, 1988 Mr. Rapp: O.k. Thank you for your time. Can I get a letter saying that this is approved subject to dedication of the road? Mr. Orlowski: Do we have the final maps? When we get those we will have a final hearing and that is it. Mr. Rapp: O.K. Mr. Orlowski: We can send a recommendation to the Town Board to approve the bond estimate. Mr. ward: So moved. Mr. Mullen: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Harbor View Estates- Board to discuss this application with the applicant. This major subdivision is on 49.14 acres located at Mattituck. SCTM ~1000-115-17-17. Mr. Conforti: Good evening. Mr. Chairman~ members of the Board. We requested a meeting to discuss this matter on a number of points. First and fore most, the building inspector has refused to issue building permits for construction of houses on lots which are part of this major subdivision. My position is that this is in violation of Town law since there is at present, in lieu of the bond a million and one hundred and fifty thousand dollar letter of credit that has been posted. At all times that letter of credit has been in effect and the s'~bdivision improvements have been proceeding. At the present, seventy five to eighty percent of road improvements are complete. Sixty five percent of the well drilling and the water treatment system is completed. Aside from that, we also pay the Lighting Company, Telephone Company and Cable Vision. Work is proceeding on their end of the job. I have two request to make, number one, is that this Board direct the Building Inspector to issue building permits, according to the Town Law. Secondly I would request that the Board lower the amount of the bond after an inspection by the Town Engineer indicating the degree to which the required improvements have been made, and at that point and prior to the expiration of the current letter of credit we will furnish a new letter of credit. Mr. Orlowski: This Board has a policy in not making any recommendation to the Building Department in issuing any building permits. We approve a subdivision subject to the roads going in and being finished and approved. We would like to see Planning Board Page 15 December 5, 1988 it in there before we make any recommendation to the Building Department. We don't know if it is going to be complete. We don't know if the water is going to be installed. We have a letter of credit for one year. If you build a house in the back and don't renew the letter of credit, how do I make you do that? There is no way to do that. So that is our policy. Mr. Conforti: If may suggest this Mr. Chairman, certainly you can, any developer not only us... I realize you don't want to be in the developing business yourselves, but when in fact you said the required subdivision improvements are proceeding. Mr. Orlowski: We don't have any problem with that. We are not going to make a recommendation to issue any building permits. Mr. Conforti: It has always been a policy in this Town despite the directors of the New York State Town Law and despite the fact that a bond or other security required by the Town have been posted, then nobody will get a building permit? Mr. Orlowski: Even if they have access to roads. Mr. Conforti: There is complete access in this particular subdivision. Not only the road cut and stabilize, the curbing is in..., no thay are not finished yet. Mr. Ward: Maybe you are close to being finished. The thing that we can do is have the engineer go make aB inspection at the request of a bond reduction. Mr. Conforti: If you can. Mr. Orlowski: We will do the bond reduction. We have done that before. Mr. Conforti: And also the other. Requesting an issuance of building permits. There are some people who have payed in money. They are paying taxes and as have we, to the Town of Southold. When particular subdivision is not requiring... Mr. Ortowski: Is there any reason why you don't want to finish the road? Mr. Conforti: I want to finish the road. I have contractor who I call three or four times a week. We are waiting for Long Island Lighting Company. We paid them seven or eight month ago over one hundred thousand dollars in certified monies and they started the job two weeks ago. That is really not our fault. We have been out of pocket for that amount of money for this amount of time. Mr. Latham: I took a ride there just last week and the roads are 3ust rough cut roads. Planning Board Page 16 December 5,1988 Mr. Conforti: What happened was.., the gully is there because of the Lilco instillation. They were in better shape until they started cutting. They should be finished in about another week or so. At which time the first course of asphalt will go on. It would make sense to me, an and I am told by our engineer, and I am told by the contractor who is doing the road improvements that we would be better off for all concerned, if we put on one lift of asphalt and not put the second lift on till Spring. Mr. Latham: There is just sand down. There is no base down there. Mr. Conforti: The base is going down after Lilco is out of there. Mr. Mullen: Why don't we have our engineer's inspect this, say in three weeks, at which time one layer should be on and Lilco should be finished. You would be in a better position. Mro Conforti: One other thing sir. And I appreciate that, Mr. Mullen, but in the interim the letter of credit will expire. I have to make an application for a letter of credit. It will only take me a couple of days to turn it around, but I want to have it in your hands before the last one expires. Mr. Orlowski: We can do the review by the nineteenth. Mr. Conforti: O.K. Mr. Orlowski: Can I have a motion to send that to the Engineer? Mr. Mullen: I make a motion to send this to the Engineer. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any question on the motion? All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Next we have Henry Arbeeny- Board to discuss this application with the applicant. This major subdivision is on 49.14 acres located at Southold. SCTM ~100~-59-7-31. Mr. Bruer: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board. We are basically here to discuss the Bond Estimate. This is Mr. Arbeeny. When this first came out I questioned the Board as to actually what the bond estimate was. I was directed to speak to the Engineer. We did call. I spoke to Mr. Dean. He said that this is basically kind of like a wish list. In other words it was a list that the engineer had in terms of a bunch of standards and it was the Planning Board who would mark off and say which ones they don't want. There was a gentlemen here earlier talking about his fifty Planning Board Page 17 December 5, 1988 nine thousand dollar bond in respect to a road. We have now a seventy nine thousand dollar estimate here and we are not even putting in a road. I am not an engineer and I still don't know what this means. I have asked Mr. Tuthil if he would come up here and discuss it with the Board and maybe giving you his opinion as an engineer, as to what to make of this sixteen item estimate totalling seventy five thousand three sixty two fifty. I think you all know Mro Tuthil and are aware of his qualifications. Mr. Orlowski: Yes, we are. Mr. Mullen: Did you say a "Wish List"? Mr. Bruer: That is exactly what I said. The indication was that they sent you this based upon a standard that they have you are supposed to cross off what you don't want. If you would review your file you will find that up until this estimate here, that there were only two recommendations. One by the engineer on August 30th of 88, where he recommended one catch basin and two leaching pools on lot one, and that was it. The Fire Department came up with a recommendation of a fire well. Up until this point there we had no idea that there be anything like this wish list that popped up. I don't think any of these things are required or necessary. This is a subdivision on two existing roads, one a County Road and one a Town Road. We are not putting in roads. Again, I would like Mr. Tuthitl to address the a... Mr. Mullen: Before we get into that. I am slightly confused, which isn't unusual. I have one bond estimate here of October 20th showing sixty six thousand five thirty. Then I have another one of October 20th of seventy nine thousand one thirty? Mr. Bruer: I never saw the first one. Ms. Spiro: That was an error on Sidney Bowne's part. They put the wrong name on the wrong bond estimate. Mr. Mullen: I see, O.K. fine. Mr. Orlowski: If this was your wish list what would you take off of it? Mr. Bruer: For instance they are talking about concrete curb for eleven hundred eighty feet. We only have eight hundred and something of road frontage and they're looking for eleven hundred. We can't make the property bigger, maybe Mr. Arbeeny would like that. Mr. Mullen: Why don't you do this, if I may, what don't you have your clerks, your engineer write us a letter going through the sixteen items. Planning Board Page 18 December 5, 1988 Mr. Bruer: Mr. Tuthill is here I would appreciate if you would talk to him. Mr. Mullen: I would prefer having it in writing. Mr. Bruer: Since I am here, and went through the trouble of asking him here I would appreciate the courtecy of letting him speak and I will then address it. Mr. Mullen: O.K. I would still request that after the fact to have it writing. Mr. Bruer: Absolutely. Mr. Tuthill: First of all, my own opinion is that what is on there now there should be no bond. Mr. Orlowski: What about fire wells? Mr. Tuthill: There is a twelve inch Main across the street. If you need a fire well you would want to put a hydrant there or something. To request this man to put in a twelve thousand dollar fire well when there is a twelve inch main across the street, I think that is harassment. Mr. Bruer: You also made us put in a fire well down the road a couple of hundred yards, a couple of months ago on a different piece of property. Popadoupolas. This is the recommendation of the Fire Commissioner. Mr. Orlowski: A Fire Commissioner, you don't think is smart enough to know if they need a well for fire protection or not? Mr. Tuthill: When you have a twelve inch Main... Mr. Orlowski: The Fire Commissioner asked for this. Mr. Tuthill: Excuse me, because they ask for something do they get it? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Tuthill: Do you have to... Mr. OrlowSki: Go along with their recommendations. Yes we do. Mr. Mutlen: Let us assume we go along with your recommendation, we don't put in these fire wells. If something happens, as a loss of life, do you know who is going to be on the record for not doing what we were suppose to do. I will never go against, unless completely unrealistic, a fire department. I can't understand why an item for approximately twelve thousand dollars that can perhaps save someone's life... Planning Board Page 19 December 5, 1988 Mr. Bruer: Why don't we pass on that. Mr. Tuthill: Just a minute. If you are a fireman, and I am. Mr. Mullen: I am too. Mr. Tuthill: Alright, if you go with a fire well against a hydrant, which is more valuable to you as a fireman? Which would you rather hook up to, a fire well or a hydrant? Mr. Mullen: Both of them. If we have the fire well in there and if we have the hydrant then we have the protection both ways. Mr. Tuthill: Of the two which is more valuable. Mr. Bruer: Let's not get into an argument. Mr. Tuthill: A fire well instead of... Mr. Bruer: You got ninety tons of pavement in a subdivision that we are not putting a road in. Mr. Orlowski: I think you probably have a good case here. We would like to have you put it in writing. First thing I would want to stick with the fire well. I don't want to go against that. The rest of it appears that we would like just to see the comments in writing and I don't think we want to build up on Kennys Road any more then it is as far as~construction other then the drains that we are asking for. I think you don't have any problems with that. Mr. Bruer: I do, there are a couple of points that Mr. Tuthill pointed out to me today with respect to the drainage. It is not going to be on our property, it is going to be on the Town's property. We don't have the recommendations of the highway co~m~issioner. Where he got this thing, I don't know. If you look in your file the only thing you ever talked about is the one catch basin and leaching pools and a hydrant for the fire. I am sorry we got off the subject from that. But the rest of these fifteen other items, I think they are rediculous. Mr. Latham: To my knowledge we never edited. Mr. Tuthill: They told us that that is what is supposed to happen. That you are suppose edited this thing. Mr. Mullen: That is the first time we ever had that. I enjoy that phrase "wish list". Matter of fact, I personally will review this report very closely, Not just for this particular bond estimate, for others too. We have no desire to hurt anybody. That is why I specifically request it in writing. And when you do give tit to us please give your reasons so we can say not being engineer's, this is what psople say. They have the Planning Board Page 20 December 5, 1988 expertise. What is this wish list. Believe me we will check this out. Mr. Latham: I never heard the phrase "wish list". That is the first time... Mr. Bruer: That is the way it came upon me. Some standards that you had set up and that they automatically do this and it is up to you to cross off what you don't want. That is the way it got back to me. Mr. Orlowski: We will look into that. As I said the fire well is going to stay there and the drainage we had talked about. Mr. Bruer: I can understand that but as I said the rest of it. Pavement, Street Lights, Street Trees, protection of traffic. Mr. Mullen: Put the rest of it in writing and we will deal with it. Mr. Ward: Street trees will stay there. Mr. Tuthill: There are two things that I think that are wrong. One you had asked the man to put in a catch basin. There is a low spot in the property, but the water that is coming in is coming off the Town Highway. I don't believe that this man should be required to put in a catch basin in to collect the water from the Town Highway. If he had a high hill, high property and the water was running onto the street. Yes, then you require it. But not when there is a hole on his property and their water is running into it and then require him to do it because there is a low spot there. You sure know that his water from his subdivision is not coming on there. It is the water off the Town Road. Because the water drains that way. That is a low spot in the highway. That is the highway responsibility. I checked the files and there is absolutely nothing in the highway or any information at all in the Superintendent of Highways. He has no knowledge of this subdivision. There is no correspondence from him approving of what has been done in this subdivision. Secondly, I would like to point out in reference to this fire well. There has already been an approved pipe underneath the road to supply water to one of these lots. Why not use that and connect a hydrant there, rather then a fire well. I don't understand that someone on this Board could say that a fire well is equal to a hydrant. I do not understand that. Not when you have a twelve inch main and the value of water there. Mr. Ward: You said there is a... Mr. Tuthill: There are previsions and it could be increased. If you are going to put in a pipe across the road, it is not going to make too much of a difference whether you go... Mr. Bruer: He is paying for it, isn't he. Planning Board Page 21 December 5, 1988 Mr. Tuthill: He is paying for it, but it is not going to cost him twelve thousand dollars. Mr. Arbeeny: Mr. Chairman, If I was to address the fire well in writing also rather then just... Mr. Orlowski: You would have to go to the Board of Fire Commissioners. Mr. Bruer: I really wouldn't bother addressing the fire well. Mr. Edwards: The only way we would make that change, at least I would, would be if we had a letter from the Southold Fire Commissioners stating that they don~t want a fire well and put a hydrant. Mr. Arbeeny: O.K. Mr. Orlowski: The Town water compared to a well. When the system was down there wasn't any water coming out of a hydrant. And it can happen. Mr. Tuthill: I have been a Greenport fireman and I had nothing but Village and water. I had not had a time when I had not had water. I don't know were this statement is coming from sir. Mr. Orlowski: Well you are taking it up with the wrong Board. Mr. Bruer: Thank you very much. Mr. Orlowski:John Xikes- Board to discuss this application with the applicant. This site plan is located at Arshamomoque. SCTM $1000-44-3-1. Mr. Angel: Besides myself(Steven Angel), this is Robert Lawless, he is the Architect for the site plan. Mr. Orlowski: Do you have some questions? Mr. Angel: Not really. I think our position is outlined in our letters, sent back and forth to the Board. I can summarize them for you. Mr. Orlowski: Would you do that? Mr. Angel: What we have here, is an application that was started with a site plan. I guess he submitted an application about twenty months ago. There were, I believe, two sets of revisions and two different revised plans that were submitted. There was some correspondence. I wrote the Board on October 19th in accordance with your regulations and summarized briefly what had transpired in this application as far as I could tell from looking at your file and speaking to Mr. Lawless. Then I Planning Board Page 22 December 5, 1988 requested approval in accordance with the previsions, I guess in Section 100-133 of your code, which starts the time running for you on site plan applications similar to the time frames on subdivision. I got back a letter from the Chairman dated October 27th, which I believe says there has been no SEQRA review on the application. Even though it has been pending for nineteen months and refers to the necessity of a Health Department application to complete SEQRA review. I commented on that on November 7th. I took the position that I did not understand why you needed a detailed application to the Health Department to make an initial SEQRA determination. Then I appeared here on November 14th in conformance to my original self invitation. And then on the 14th you suggested that we come back on the 5th of December. And we are back here, to deal with any questions you might have with the site plan. I asked Mr. Lawless to come out from Yonkers so that he can discuss any particular details. I have reviewed the application and it seems to be conforming under the provisions of the B-Light Business District. It haS been kicking around for quite some time. It has, apparently, been a low priority item. Our client, however, does not consider it a low priority item and would like it to be expedited, so that he can proceed. Mr. Ward: We basically have had a problem in reviewing this because our preference for this site, I realize the current zone is Commercial, our preference for this site is Residential. Our comprehensive plan update is to identify with zones to be residential. I would recommend tonight, if you want to persue this, is to positive dec. it for traffic and other reasons. And put it into that remedial. We have serious reservations about this site for commercial. I just want to say where ~e are coming from. I realize you have a right. It is a property ownership, but in terms of the overall Town there is a sore point to it, that it is commercial. Mr. Angel: But, with all do respect, we have had a conforming application before you for nineteen months, to make a initial determination, well twenty months, of a positive declaration under SEQRA when it conforms to all the requirements of legislative zoning. The Board can't do that. It has been like that for some time. I think it would be an arbitrary act. It would just unnecessarily delay our client. It is essentially a simple application. It may be that you do not agree with the zoning. You are sort of stuck with it, currently. Mr. Ward: I think we have to address the impact statement as to what is happening. Mr. Angel: My position is pretty well taken. I don't want to bander any threats back and forth, but you understand my position. Mr. Ward: Yes, I do. Planning Board Page 23 December 5, 1988 Mr. Angel: A positive declaration, a situation where you have public water. The Health Department says it meets all their requirements and it conforms to everything in your zoning ordinance. It was chosen for this particular purpose. It could turn out to be a dangerous act on part of the Town. Mr. Orlowski: Do you have Health Department approval? Mr. Angel: No. We have an application pending with the Health Department. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Angel: For the record I renew my request for approval in accordance of my letter of October 19, 1988. Mr. Ward: I move that we have a positive dec. under SEQRA. Basically, it is inconsistent with our long range planning and also the fact that the traffic situation should be looked at under SEQRA. Mr. Angel: Who seconded it? You are waiting for Mr. Mullen to come back? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Mullen, there is a motion on the floor on the John Xikis site plan to positive dec. it. For reasons that it is inconsistent with the adopted master plan by this Board and the traffic situation. We have a motion made and seconded? Mr. Latham: second. Mr. Mullen: I concur. Mr. Orlowski: Ail those is favor? vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Angel: You are putting something in writing? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Angel: Thank you. Good night. Mr. Orlowski: Next we have Mohrinq/Cardinale- Board to discuss this application with the applicant. This minor subdivision is on 15.902 acres located at Mattituck. SCTM 91000-122-3-1.1. Mr. Philip Cardinale: Good Evening. I wanted to take the opportunity to speak to you this evening. We have spoken to you twice before on this in it's resurrected form. Just briefly the Planning Board Page 24 December 5, 1988 facts for the Board. In September 11, 1984 sketch plan approval was granted to the map you have in front of you. The Health Department and Mr. M0hring and Mr. Cardinate went around till May 10, 1988 with the water issues. Ultimately they approved and stamped the map you have in front of you. A few days later on June 10, 1988, I anticipated it and at the request from the Board's staff we submitted a new application which essentially was an application to waive the six months. We were way over the six months, obviously, because we were in the Health Department for three or four years. Your response on June 27, 1988 was that looking at lot number four you are not in favor of being situated between two different zones as was on the original sketch plan, subsequently approve by the Board. We came before the Board in August and later on October 17, 1988 and discussed a possible resolution. In an August meeting the Boazd instructed me to contact the Town Council, Jay Schondebare. Which I did and foreworded to him a draft of the proposed covenants and restriction, which would address the Board's concer~ specifically that it did not want to have a split lot. We did that by sending him a covenant which I have here. Which you should have a copy in the file. It indicates that the declaring has made an application to the Town for approval of a subdivision bearing premises at schedule A will be designated to lot four as a condition for approval and acceptance of file for the Town of such subdivision. If the declaring agrees that upon expectance of filing, that the declaring shall within thirty days make application for a set off of that portion of the schedule A premises lying in the B-1 zone use district for that portion schedule A in the A-Residential use district. So that it is to provide two separate and district building lots, each located fully within in its respective zoning use-district. I spoke with Jay on several actions, subsequent to September. I spoke to the Board on October 17th at the meeting. Basically, the Board in that meeting indicated some concern as to if this would be review a major by doing this. My conversation with Jay and his review of the covenant indicate that he does not share that concern. He feels that it is clearly filing a minor subdivision. At that point we will then be going back through the ordinary process of attempting divide an oversized lot only with covenanting or promising that we will divide it in the fashion that you directed us at that line. He indicated that he did not have any problem with the covenant nor did he have a problem with second concern by the Board. First, concern was to get the covenant clear, that was in AugUst. The second concern, in October was let's make sure that this is not going to be viewed as a major. Jay has indicated to me that he does not have either of those concerns. Mr. Orlowski: What does the County say. Mr. Cardinale: The County, I know that you were concerned that did the County know when they approved it. Di~ they know what this was zoned. That they did, if you look at the map that you Planning Board Page 25 December 5, 1988 have in front of you. It is marked exactly that. They approved lot number four with the zoning line indicated on it. Mr. Orlowski: Going back in, it will be considered then as a major subdivision will they change everything? Mr. Cardinale: No, because when we go back in we will go back in with an existing lot four and say to them we wish to divide. Not only that we wish to divide lot four at that line in Order to use parcel one as the business parcel and the rest of it as residential zone. They have indicated to me, both Jay and the County Health department viewed this as a minor subdivision. Basically those two concerns were checked out by both of us are O.K. The covenant he has cleared and also has indicated that it is a minor. I don't know if he has told you about it. He has talked to me on the phone. That may be the problem in the confusion and communicating. I guess you do need a letter in covering. He needs to give you a letter telling you what I said. Mr. Orlowski: I think what you are going to find out from the County is when you come back in, unless you come back immediately, the County is going to look at it as a major subdivision. I don't know how that is going to effect these lots with the sewer and water or anything else or if it is going to effect the four lot subdivision. Mr. Cardinale: That seems to be what you and the Board were concerned about. That was unclear to me ~whyyou wanted it filed with the County. If it is filed, now I have to file it with the .County as well. So it will be filed with the County and the Town. At that point after it is filed I would submit a new map with lot number four to the Board and to the County and say I want to divide this six acre lot in two at this line. As I understand it would be viewed as a minor subdivision of a preexisting six acre lot. Mr. Orlowski: We have had it before. We use to set off a parcel and then we would go back with four lots and make it a five lot subdivision. The County will come back to us and say even though it is approved and signed and sealed it is now a major subdivision. Mr. Cardinale: And they would apply the major requirements. When you say the County, you mean the County Health Department? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. That is the thing we wanted you to iron out because it wouldn't do either one of us any good. Mr. Cardinale: You are concerned that they can open up the whole map when I am submitting lot four. The problems you have seen in the past have come from the County Health Department. Mr. Orlowski: Yes, the County Health Department. They have told us this is a major subdivision no matter what you have done in Planning Board Page 26 December 5, 1988 the past. Which would be problems for you as well as us. They say we don~t feel that you can do that, so don't do anything. Mr. Cardinale: I had heard something that you look for a letter from the Health Department. I said to Jay that you can see they knew that, but you are raising a different issue. Mr. Orlowski: Just so that they know that we are looking out for these things. Mr. Cardinale: I will tell them what we want to do and ask them if they have problem. Mr. Orlowski: We don't have any problem with ito We are just trying to handle it from the beginning. Mr. Cardinale: What I will do set up an appointment with the Health Department and get back to you. Mr. Orlowski: O.K. Mr. Cardinale: Thank you. Mr. Orlowski: One more thing that is not on the agenda. About hiring Jane Rousseau to help in the office, so that Jill can catch up on the minutes. We have to go to the Town Board and request it. Mr. Edwards: So moved. Mr. Mullen: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: ~Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Can we have a motion to adjourn? Mr. Mullen: So moved. Mr. Latham: Seconded. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Vote of the Board; Ayes: Orlowski, Mullen, Latham, Ward, Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. The meeting was adjourned at 9:10 p.m. Planning Board Page 27 December 5, 1988 Respectfully Submitted, M. Thorp, Secretary Southold Town Planning Board ~3~IVED AND FILED BY THE ~ ~. SOu l H~.~-LD TO¥/N To~n ~erk, Town o~ Sou~hol8