HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-02/06/1989Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O Box 1179
Southold. New York 11971
TELEPHONE
(516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
PLANNING BOARD
FEBRUARY 6, 1989
The Southold Town Planning Board held their regular meeting
on Monday, February 6, 1989 at 1:00 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall,
Main Road, Southold.
PRESENT WERE:
Bennett Drlowski, Jr., Chairman
Member William Mullen
Member G. Ritchie Latham
Member Richard Ward
Town Planner Valerie Scopaz
Town Environmental Consultant Dave Emilita
Planner Meiissa Spiro
Jane Rousseau
ABSENT;
Kenneth Edwards
Mr. Orlowski: Good afternoon, I would like to call this meeting
to order. First order of business is the public hearing of Sally
& Anthony Pierra - Final map dated as amended September 17, 1987.
This minor subdivision is on 5.208 acres located at Southold.
There is proof of publication in the Suffolk Times and also
the Long Island Traveler Watchman. At this time everything is
in order for a public hearing so I'll ask if there are any
objections to this subdivision. Hearing none, are there any
endorsements?
Rudolf Bruer: On behalf of the applicant I would like to request
that the board look favorably upon this, i think everything has
been said over the years with respect to this application as
presented and we ask that the board approve it. If you have
any questions, we'll be happy to answer them.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.. Any other endorsements of this subdivision?
Hearing none, is there anyone out there that is neither pro nor
con but may have information pertaining to this subdivision that
would be of the interest to the board? Any questions from the board?
Hearing none, I declare this hearing closed. Thank you for coming.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 2 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: Public Hearing on the Draft Environmental Impact
Statement on Cove Beach Estates. Proof of publication in the
Suffolk Times and the Long ISland Traveler Watchman. At this
time everything is in order for a hearing. Are there any
coiaments on the Draft Environmental Impact Statement? I'll
start on my left.
Ronnie Wacker: I represent the North Fork Environmental Council.
What I would like to address myself is Habitat. There was mention
of various species that might be endangered. It is only recently
that we have become aware of what we're doing to planet earth,
how chopping down rainforests in Brazil destroys the entire
species and affects climate in our part of the world, how bull-
dozing one hundred acres in Southold Town destroys the habitat
of many different animals and birds. We don't even know exactly
how this affects our own species - man, but we are learning that
we are all interdependent.
On the Dam Pond property there are various endangered and
threatened species. That we do know. It may sound funny to
hold up an entire project because it may destroy the Yellow
Warbler or the white-tailed deer of the least tern or the
green-backed heron or the little housefinch. Our previous
president expressed the attitude of many of us years ago when
he said "if you've seen one redwood tree, you've seen them all."
But apparently, as we are learning, birds, animals and
plants have an interconnectiono You can't say what is the
importance of a green-backed heron when we Can't even figure the
importance of man in the scheme of things or even why he is on
earth.
Suffolk County legislature has recently become aware of
the importance of habitat and is now considering a bill to con-
trol building in areas in which habitat may be destroyed by
construction.
Time magazine gave over its man of the year cover story to
a searching exploration of an endangered species - Planet Earth -
in which it warned that earth may have a limited time in which
it can support life unless we all dO an about-face in our attitude
that the natural resources of earth, land and water are limitless.
The state Department of Conservation has been asked to
include the Dam Pond property on its list of properties for ac-
quisition. The County Office of Ecology has found twelve species
of birds on the site, three of which are endangered, threatened
or of special concern in New York State. There are a number of
plant species on the property on the New York State Protected
Plant Species list.
The time has come for all of us to work together to preserve
properties like Dam Pond that are important to the town. What we
might all be doing is writing letters or otherwise tugging on the
sleeve of the DEC to urge immediate action on the acquisition.
This may be our last chance to preserve this extraordinary and
important area of Southcld Town.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 3 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: Any comments from my left? Any comments from
the center section here? Any comments from anybody? Any
comments from the board? Mr. Mullen? None. Mr. Latham?
Mr. Latham: Just one. Wasntt this area zoned industrial
changed to residential?
Mr. Orlowski: I believe that on the master plan it was
automatically done.
Mr. Latham: O.K.. It should be stricken off this map
Mr. Orlowski: I think it was done. Mr. Ward? None.
Ms. Scopaz? No, any comments I'll send in by.the 16th.
Mr. Emilita do you have any comments? No. O.K., the
comment period will stay open until February 16th, so
if there are any comments they can be addressed in writing
to the board. At this time, I think we can attain a resolu-
tion so Dave can start the Final Environmental Impact Statement.
Mr. Ward: Subject to completion of the comment period.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., motion made and seconded. Any questions
on the motion? Ail ' ~
those mn favor.
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Mullen, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. O.K., I'll declare this
hearing closed. Thank you for coming.
Mr. Orlowski: The board to set Monday, February 27th, 1989 at
7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, as
the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Mullen: Second.
· i
Mr. OrlowSki: Motion made andiseconded. Any questions on the
motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Mullen, Mr. Latham, iMr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
SCUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD PAGE 4 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: We have Walsh Park - Board to keep the public
hearing open from October 14, 1988 pending receipt of revised
preliminary maps. This affordable housing project is located
on Fishers Island. SCTM # 1000-6-2-3.1. I would like to
obtain a motion to keep this open?
Mr. Mullen: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on
the motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Mullen, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: I would like to approve the miniutes of the
regular meeting of January 23, 1989,
Mr. Mullen: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on
the motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Mullen, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed. So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski - Howard Rosenstone - Board to make a determination
on the granting of a six month extension on sketch approval
from January 25, 1989 to July 25, 1989. This major subdivision
is on 13.64 acres located at Cutchogue. SCTM #1000-83-3-2.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Mullen, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 5 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: Thomas Shalvey - Board to make a determination on
the granting of a six month extension on sketch approval from
January 25, 1989 to July 25, 1989. This minor subdivision is
on 5.9130 acres located at Cutchogue. #1000-84-4-11.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second~
Mr. Orlowski: Any questions on the motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Mullen, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr~ Orlowski: George R. Furse - Board to make a determination on
the granting of a six month extension on sketch approval from
March 12, 1989 to September 12, 1989. This set-off is on 3.64
acres located at Fishers Island. SCTM # 1000-9-3-2.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Mullen: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Any questions on the motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Mullen, Mr. Ward
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Charles Acres - Board to make a determination on the
granting of a six month extension on preliminary approval from
February 9, 1989 to August 9, 1989. This major subdivision is
on 32.8 acres located at Peconic. SCTM #1000-86-1-10.3.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. Mullen: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Any questions on the motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Mullen, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 6 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: Public Hearing on North Road Associates Final
map dated as amended August 20, 1987. This minor subdivision
is on 16.886 acres located at Orient. SCTM #1000-18-4-1.
Proof of publication in the Long Island Traveler Watchman and
the Suffolk Times. At this time everything is in order for
a hearing. Are there any objections to this minor subdivision?
Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this subdivision?
Rudolph Bruer: Mr. Chairman and Member of the Board. Again,
I would ask that the board grant the application. I think it
has been reviewed for the last four years and I think every-
thing has been said pro and con about it and we would request
that the application be granted. I will answer any questions
you might have,
Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements of this subdivision?
Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con
but may have information pertaining to this subdivision that
would be of interest to the board? Hearing none, any questions
from the board? Mr. Mullen? Mr. Latham? Mr. Ward? None.
O.K., at this time because we do not have the Suffolk County
Planning Commission's report back we will hold this hearing
open and I would like to entertain that motion.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Mullen: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Mullen, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed. So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: On SEQRA Determinations - Town of Southold at Sound
View Avenue - Board to start the coordination process to determine
Lead Agency and Environmental Significance. This major subdivision
owned by the Town of Southold is on 5.83 acres located at Southold.
SCTM #1000-59-9-10. I would like to entertain a motion to start
the coordination process.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. Mullen: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.
motion? Ail those in favor?
Any questions on the
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 7 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Mnllen, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Angel Shores - Board to review the Revised Environ-
mental Impact Statement for Completeness. This major subdivision
is located at Southold. SCTM #1000-88-6-1,4,5. Mr. Emilita do
you have some comments on this?
Mr. Emilita: I believe we submitted those comments and they are
part of the record.
Mr. Orlowski: Do you feel that this is complete yet?
Mr. Emilita: Yes. I believe our comments reflect that.
Mr. Orlowski: The Department of Health has asked to hold over
this comment period until February 27th, 1989. I don't see
us making any determination today as to whether this is complete
or not until the Health Department makes theirs. Does the
board have any comments?
Mr. William Moore: Mr. Chairman may I be heard on this?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. William Moore: I am the attorney for the applicant. Believe
it or not making sure the SEQRA process is done right is in the
applicants best interest. If it is not done right all of your
approvals are subject to challenge. I am up here to tell you
that my legal opinion, the process you have been taking for SEQRA
review is wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. I'm doing it understanding
that I would be hurting myself if I thought I was wrong. You are
the lead agent, by allowing every other agency to review this
document, and rereview their comments and response to those comments
you have the tail wagging the dog~ You guys are the dog, you're in
charge, you are the Lead Agent. I've never seen you buck Mr. Emilita
when he recommends denial, you go along with that, he has now been
paid and has recommeded you accept the document, at which time
it is open for public comment and review. It is at that time that
the agencies can put in all their feedback and the applicant has
to respond to it. The same goes true for the public which sits
blocked from comment and review at this point until a public hearing
is scheduled. I understand from Valerie that you've got legal
opinion that defers with me on this. I stand here and still tell
you that I think the process is being handled wrong, wrong, wrong,
wrong. If you do not wish to use the SEQRA regulations thai were
adopted by DEC as were set forth by DEC, the town has every right
to change those regulations but do it in writing. Don't do it
by some policy that the boards agree upon how we're going to handle
this thing, then it can be open for all the comment and a public
hearing as to how SEQRA will be done in the Town of Southold. Right
now it's being done wrong, wrong, wrong.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 8 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: Well, that would be one attorneys opinion against
our own. We would like to wait for the health department, we
feel they have ~a lot of comments, t~at need to be addressed,
that being water. They've ~sked that w_e hold up and ~a~t for' them
to make there comments, so we're going to do that and our attorney
has advised us that we can do that. We will hold this declszon
over until the 27th. When the comments are deemed complete, they
will be available for inspection. We want to make sure that we
have all our comments in from the Board of Health. We feel that
it's comments that should be addressed and put in so that is what
we are going to wait for. Does the board have anything else?
Board: No. **********
Mr. Orlowski: Moving on. Cliffside/Tidemark - Board to review
the Final Environmental Impact Statement for Completeness. This
malor subdivision in located at Southold.. SCTM 91000-88-6-1,4,5.
Da~e, do you feel that everything is in order to accept the Final
Environmental Impact Statement?
Dave Emilita: We have as you know a Final Environmental Impact
Statement that consists of the draft in this case by reference
or comments made during the comment period and the lead agency
response to those comments. We have prepared as advisors to
the board a Final Enviomental Impact Statement which we are
presenting today for the boards acceptance following that
acceptance there will be a public comment period of a length
to be determined at which the public can then review the
final or any additional comments it wishes to make. So that
is the step that we're at right now.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., since by law it cannot be less than ten
calendar days, I think if we open this comment period until
the next meeting, the 27th, that will be three weeks. That
should be sufficient. Is that O.K. Dave? Do you think that
will be alright?
Dave Emilita: Yes, that's fine.
Mr. Orlowski: I'll entertain a motion to accept the Final
Impact Statement and open the public comment period to the
27th of February.
Mr. Mullen: Motion made.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on
the motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Mullen, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD
PAGE 9
FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: Harbor View - Board to recommend to the Town
Board to accept the extended letter of credit,' dated December 20,
1988 and received by this office on January 21~ 1989. This
major subdivision is on 49.140 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM ~1000-i15-17-17.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Mullen, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: ~enr~ Arbeen¥ - Board to review the revised bond
estimate dated as amended January 27, 1989. This major sub-
division is on 7.592 acres located at Southold. SCTM ~1000-59-7-31.
Sidney Bowne has revised the bond estimate again, we now have
it at $48,262. I believe everyone is in agreement. What is the
pleasure of the board?
Mr. Bruer: With respect to the bond estimate, I'm still at a
loss, particularly since the estimate calls for the driveway
aprons and so on and so forth. Where and why I need sixty-
eight tons of asphalt, since we're not putting in a road?
Mr. Orlowski: I believe you had a conversation with
Mr. Bruer: He still did'nt tell us what to do with it. I don't
know whether to put it in one big pile, two piles, or spread
it over.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, as we get going we'll look into it.
Mr. Bruer: Would you ask?
Mr. Orlowski: I'll ask.
Mr. Bruer: A couple of other questions with respect to it.
think, hopefully positive comment. Some of these thing like
the driveway apron, possibly topsoil, planting trees, and so
on and so forth. Wouldn't that be particularly on commercial
property, a business property an area you would consider and
require at the site plan approval at such time when somebody
is actually going to build there?
Mr. Orlowski: Well, Mr. Jacobs is having a lot of problems
on building lots and driveways off the town roads and he has
asked us to put this in so he knows that if something is going
to start there right away, he'll be able to go back to them
and get an apron or something because he's having to fix a
lot of these town roads where they are coming into.
PLANNING BOARD
PAGE 10
FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Bruer: Was it wise at this particular stage to ask for the
driveways to be started when you don't even know where the
building is going to go?
Mr. Orlowski: Well, as we go along, maybe we can address that,
what you are going to do.
Mr. Bruer: Because that is something that you're going to require
somewhere else from somebody else down the line. It seems to be
wasteful to ask for it twice, that's my point. I agree with most
of the items here but I think on a couple of them, particularly
commercial property, it's really something that should be
addressed to the site plan.
Mr. Orlowski: At that point, when you are ready to have an
inspection, we'll go over it with the engineer. They are not
here right now, so I can't give you a lot of answers to a lot
of these questions, or Mr. Jacobs who is ....
Mr. Bruer: I would ask that the board in the future maybe keep
some of these items in mind with respect to certain subdivisions.
Mr. Orlowski: For right now it could be considered flaging some
of these problems that come up and pointing them out and maybe
on the end when the time comes to get relief from the bond we'll
do that, I don't know.
Mr. Bruer: O.K., I would like to know about the asphalt.
Mr. Orlowski: In some cases if you started building and construc-
tion was going on, on the town road we find that it gets pretty
well torn up in the front and going in and out with heavy equip-
ment and we would like to be protected for a while.
Mr. Bruer: If that is the answer, then maybe I can accept it,
but I just don't know what it is for.
Mr. Orlowski: That's all I can tell you right now.
Mr. Bruer: Thank you very much.
Mr. Orlowski: Ciletti & Claps Board to review the as built
plans for this site plan received by this office on January 11,
1989. This site plan is located on the North Road at Southold.
SCTM #1000-63-1-17,18. It's already been certified so we
don't have to recertify it. I think that we can approve this
with the condition~ Ghat ~kase II .c~rbin~~ and drainage ~
Us to be brought to proper standards upon any further develop-
ment of this site. I would like to have that in the motion.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 11 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Mullen, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. (Chairman signed maps)
Mr. O~l~w~ki: Lucas Ford - Board to start the coordination
process to determine Lead A~ency and Environmental Significance.
This site plan is located on Hortons Lans at Southold.
SCTM ~ 1000-59-3-32.1.
Mr. Mullen: I would like to refrain due to a conflict of interest.
Mr. Latham: Motion made.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on
the motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.-
Mr. Orlowski: High Point - Section 3 - Board to discuss this
proposal with the applicant. Richard Israel. SCTM #1000-33-3-11.25.
Mr. Israel: Basically this is something we have gone through.
A lot of process remains the same. Now that the Master Plan has
been approved we're back in a one acre zone so we're looking for
approval of the three lot subdivision. We had already gone to
the Health Department and everything else on this we don't know
where to begin now. Do we start a new application? I would
like your corament on the map now under the new law on what you
would like, if anything, done with it so that we can resubmit
it.
Mr. Ward: I think what we need here is a cul-de-sac turn around
a 25 ft right a way would be alright.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 12 FEBRUARY ,6, 1989
Mr. Israel: O.K., so the real question comes down to, when I
was speaking to Melissa, she said to give us a 100 ft. radius
and that is kind of absurd on that road. The road is basically
to only service the two rear driveways, the utility easement
as you see comes from the North.
Mr. Ward: Give us the turning radius, you don't have to landscape
in the middle, just carry your 20 ft. around.
Mr. Israel: So you want a 20 ft radius.
Mr. Ward: No. Just carry the 20 ft. road around the center
doesn't have to be all paved.
Mr. Israel: O.K. so what should be the radius or the diameter
of that?
Mr. Ward: Standard radius, so we can get truck delivery or
anything else that gets back in there they can get back out.
You may have to go to the other lots a little bit to do it
Mr. Israel: We don't mind that. We don't mind the turn around
either, its just that, well O.K.. Do we have to go back to the
Health Department and start that all over again considering it
was previously approved?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes. It has to be on the map. Also, you have
another one, Herbert Mandel?
Mr. Israel: Yes.
Mr. Orlowski: Board to discuss this proposal with the applicant.
SCTM ~1000-31-4-15.
Mr. Israel: This is a set-off in East Marion which now is going
to be changed to a one-acre set-off, which we have drawn on the
previous map, again its in a R-40 district .... I've got a couple
of more maps here. Where we have red penciled in the one acre
set off.
Mr. Orlowski: What about the piece in the back now?
Mr. Israel: Well there is an eight foot right of way adjacent
to that which has always serviced it.
Mr. Orlowski: Well we're not going to leave eight foot here to
service ten acres.
Mr. Israel: The other problem that we have is that you only have,
we're trying to keep the road away from the house. I canngt give
you a 50 foot right of way, it doesn't exist.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 13 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: What do you have there?
Mr. Israel: There is 48 feet there, but there are also substantial
trees there which we feel is important to the house also. The
other thing about this remainder is we feel we can get better
access from a different area. It seems that from what has happened
in the past, ---.
Mr. Orlowski: I think before we entertain anything we want to see
how you're going to get a better access to the back of this property.
This board is not going to go along with eight feet.
Mr. Israel: Well, if I were to bring that right of way up to 25 ft.
taking in the eight and a quarter feet of the pre-existing road,
which is not much of a road. Would that be sufficient?
Mr. Oriowski: No more than four lots in the back?
Mr. Israel: There is no way you're going to do a major, because
then you would need the wider road.
Mr. Orlowski: I think you should show us how you are planning to--.
Mr. Israel: O.K.. I can show you that. I think that's a whole
different scenarial then from the set off. There is a reason
we're pushinq for the set off. Mrs. Mandel is very ill and its
her wishes, she owns the house, they are looking to move as
quickly as possible to se~ off the house that will be in her
name, her estate. That is why basically, if we can come to some
kind of agreement today, we will go ahead and draw up the maps
that can be done to allow this set off. We as developers feel
there is a better Way h~re.~-a~d-we,re, going to try a.~nd get._it with
your help and I will show it to you. I don't really want to
hold off the set off because the other thing is not an easy
thing.
Mr. Oriowski: You're going to have to show access to that back
parcel.
Mr. Israel: So if we were to give you a 17 ft. right of way for
the use of this back parcel, if and when it is ever developed.
Mr. Orlowski: 17 ft. wouldn't be enough.
Mr. Israel: 17 and 8 is 25.
Mr. Orlowski: Where is the 8?
Mr. israel: The eight is the Old King Road. The Old King Road,
which nobody seems to own anymore, is here. It's eight and a
quarter feet. So if we give you 17, it will give us a 25 ft.
right of way.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 14 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Israel: I pulled the tax map just so you could see the overall
layout of this property here. Fifteen happens to be that lot there.
Mr. Mandells piece is here. This piece is owned by me What we're
~eally proposing to do, to 'hel'p develop this property properly,
is we want to open this road and we will pay for that road.
Mr. Orlowski: Do you own that lot?
Mr. Israel: No we do not. I feel that is out of a mishap with
the Planning Board because actually who ever did this development
did not dedicate the. road because he did not want to put it in.
I guess 20 years ago, this was done in 1969, the Town did not
want to take it over, the guy didn't want to dedicate it so it
was just left to sit. The county tax maps picked it up as a lot
because it is a taxable parcel. I propose we can do a very good
road which will extend across my piece and onto Herbs piece and
create good access for everybody in here. The other problem that
I think has come about was originally this was the first filed
map and he was also filing a map of the second section here which
would have also gave a major road through here. That was never
done, it was never completed. Basically, everybody in this area
seems to be landlocked.
Mr. Orlowski: It does seem like that doesn't it?
Mr. Israel: What ts good about this suggestion that I have made,
I know there are other developments going on up here etc., if
they need access to it that can be arranged. That just makes
the scenaria scarier I guess in the long run to ever getting
it adopted.
Mr. Orlowski: I think what you have to proceed with now is to
show us an overall sketch of your intentions. You should find
out who owns this piece of property.
Mr. Israel: I know who owns it. Wasn't the filing of this map,
with this lot, not being a lot, what was suppose to happen to
this piece and why was it never addressed.
Mr. Orlowski: I wasn't here twenty years ago, so you're asking
the wrong person.
Mr. Israel: O.K., but who corrects the mistake?
Mr. Orlowski: We don't know if that is a mistake. Give us a
sketch of your total intention on the whole parcel. We have
to know so we can't just set this off leaving this parcel
landlocked.
Mr. Israeli If I were to give you a 20 ft. right of way, which
would almost come out to 28, 30 ft. would that be sufficient?
Mr. Orlowski: I would like 25 ft. What would the rest of the
board like?
PLANNING BOARD
Mr. Orlowski:
follow that?
PAGE 15 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
What does the board think about that? Do you
Mr. Ward: We follow it but there is no chance of there being
a total of four lots?
Mr. Israel: On the upper lot? I would just say that due to rules
and regulations, it doesn't pay to do a major versus a minor on
ten acres. Therefore, due to economics, if it evsr does get
developed to its fullest capacity, it's in a two acre zone.
Mr. Ward: Why don't you give us the layout on the overall
show what you are proposing to do.
Mr. Israel: We're not proposing to subdivide this piece of
land.
Mr. Ward: We're not going to lock in by setting off the
forty thousand in the front and be locked in with two narrower
right of ways in the future.
Mr. Israel: If it was a major, so it's basically impossible
to do it from this side, because fifty foot does not exist
there. We will go under the condition that a major cannot
be done there if that is what you would like. A minor will
be allowed.
Ms. Scopaz: Mr. Chairman, if I could suggest there are obviously
a lot of options to be explored here including shifting the road
to the other side of the property where he would have
fifty feet, perhaps the board would want to get all the information
on a sketch and then review it.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, we're going to have to. We would like to
know what the idea will be base~ on the two acre density because
I am going to tell you now, if you come back and try to get four
lots on there that is a ma]or subdivision. The county is going
to look at it as a major and we may look at it as a major.
Mr. Israel: Let me show you the other access that we're hoping
to get. it does need Planning Board help and approval. There
was a subdivision done many years ago called Sound Crest Woods,
which is on Stars Road. This is a copy of the map that is in
the county of the lots and if you will look at lot number 10
and 11, between there, there is a, I believe the reason it is
69 in front is because who ever did this map did not want to
burden the school with a right of way and therefore there is
fifty foot back here on this property. This is not a road,
it was never dedicated as a road but in most surveyers opinion,
it is a road and was meant to be one. There was no lot number
assigned to it.
PLANNING BOARD
PAGE
FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Ms. Scopaz: How wide is the right of way on the adjacent property?
MN. Israel: 8¼ feet. That's a fire road. Big enough to get
a big fire engine in.
Ms. Scopaz: How many people have access off of this now?
Mr. Israel: Currently built to the North of this road there
seems to be two houses over here which sit on two to three
acre parcels and there are two ten acre parcels on the sound
which each have one house currently. So there is only four
homes.
Ms. Scopaz: What about these lots here?
Mr. Israel: These are all serviced by this small road. This
right of way changed drastically once it comes here because here
it's a dirt road and its not well kept.
Ms. Scopaz: So we have the possiblity of say fifteen residences
off this?
Mr. Israel: I guess so.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.. I think you're just going to have to address
it, we're going to want 25ft. it you're going with just three
lots in the back, if you plan on going with four lots or more,
we're going to want to see how you're-going.to connect them.
We're going to want 50 ft. on the Main Road even if that barn
has to be removed on the other side and obtain access. If we
set one off and make four more back there that's a major sub-
division. That's five lots.
Mr. Israel: Well, the true intention is hopefully we will fix
the other scenario. If we bring back that one acre map showing
a 25 ft. right of way and give you some idea of what we're going
to do .... .
Mr. Orlowski: We want 50 if you plan on putting four back there.
Mr. Israel: If I give you a 50 ft. right of way on the other side
that would be O.K. with you?
Mr. Orlowski: You might have to do it that way.
Mr. Israel: The only thing I thought of as far as that goes is,
I know the state is really not looking to put curb cuts in and
they would probably want to see this utilized. So I wanted to
try and work it as best we could to utilize the current curb
cut because basically once that road does go In, the first road
of this property was developed would get the use of everybody.
If I put the 50 ft. right of way, like you're suggesting on the
west, its only going to service the lots above here and you're
still going to have
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 17 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: You're still going to have to decide what you're
going to do on the back parcel. Give us a sketch and we will
go over it and get back to you.
Mr. Ortowski: Next order of business is Stocken - Board to
discuss this proposal with the applicant. SCTM #-1000-45-6-5.
This site plan is located in Greenport.
Garrett Strang: Good afternoon. The reason we're here before
you today, obviously, is to continue with our application process
on this particular site plan. We had to appear before the
board when we submitted the site plan a while back. They
had resumed some comments on that site plan as well as indicating
the need for an action by the Zoning Board of Appeals which
has been taken/ I believe the action granted by the Zoning Board
of Appeals addresses the issues the Planning Board raised.
Along those lines we now are in front of the board today hope-
fully to address in specific terms the issues that were brought
up regarding site plans. I know that there were some comments
noted on the site plans from the board members and two of those
I would like to address at the moment. First, the need for
some planting in the front of the building or in front of the
site. Given the nature of the use that is there presently, that
being gasoline service. Obviously, there is a need for a fair
amount of driveway and circulation space in the area. However,
we're certainly not adverse to providing some sort of planting
area possible along the lines of what the Mills site adjacent
to the west that provided planter boxes that we can place along
the property line and that way we can provide some planting
along the front, as I'm sure you are aware of now is all asphalt
paved, it would be difficult at best to try and break the asphalt
up to do a regular type of planting arrangement there and also
would be difficult to maintain planting that sort of arrangement
due to the run off from the site and the road. We felt that
similar to what the Mills did by elevating the planting in
contained planter boxes and we can maintain it on a year round
basis without having to deal with the effects of the run off
from both the road and the site. By the same token, the second
comment that you made had to deal with two well defined curb
cuts, I think we can address that issue by the placement of the
planter boxes in such a way that there are two distinct egress
and ingress locations on the site. We would like the board
to give some comment with reqard to those two particular situa-
tions as well as if the boar~ would advise us accordingly as to
the third commen% that they made on the plan which, I think,
internal circulation and parking layout needs to be improved.
I think to be of myself, my client and the board. If we could
get some more dire ~ '. -~ . ·
we -~ ~' ~.~?~_ ~ ~ ~ d. concerns are,
.can ~a~ress ~n~a~~ partic~ ~re~.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 18 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: Does the board have any commens on this?
Mr. Ward: There really wasn't anything labeled here that said
it's one way.
Mr. Strang: Yes, the intention here was for one way circulation
from the East side around and exiting on the West side which is
really the only way that type of diagonally parkinq can function
properly and it is certainly easy enough to designate a section and
put circulation arrows on the pavement if need be.
Mr. Ward: I think we just have general comments that we're dealing
with here, trying to make improvements on the existing building,
and we're basically floating in a sea of asphalt which is right to
the property lines, and I realize you can draw the lines on the
pavement. Even if we have to ease it into this little area in
the back, the grass area in the back, with some tree planting the
paving is remaining right to the building, it's just that if we
were starting from scratch, I realize that you would not be doing
it this way but we're dealing with existing conditions. If think
we would like to see something addressed that would be specifically
more pleasing than what is here.
Mr. Strang: We do have two issues to deal with obviously, the
first and foremost being the exisiting conditions there on site
and the pavement on the site. The second being the use of the
building, the front building, the existing building being pro-
posed to include grocery sales, the immediate need then is park-
lng to be as close to that area as possible and to place all the
parking remote is obviously not a good planning point of view
either, as far as making pedestrian travel to the building
difficult, so our first approach was to provide as much parking
toward the front which would be as easily accessible to the
building as possible. The obvious location for that was on the
easterly property line. That in itself, the paving is already
there and it sort of concluded us from having any planting along
the easterly property line. There is no planting there presently,
as it exists it is O.K..
Mr. Ward: Also, when you turn from the diagonal to perpendicular
parking, someone pulling out of perpendicular parking in the
back of the building has got two choices to make, either go the
wrong way into the one way or the other way. I think directionally,
we ought to correct it so it's all in the same direction.
Mr. Strang: That can be addressed without a problem.
Mr. Ward: Maybe what we will have to do, is tc take a site
visit and get back to you in detail.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 19 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Latham: That new building in the back, is it for repairs
or body work?
Mr. Strang: Automobile service similar to what exists in the
building that is there now. Basically, the whole idea behind
this is to relocate the use that's now in the front building
to the new building in the rear, and convert the front building
to grocery use.
Ms. Scopaz: Mr. Chairman, if I may add~ress the board. I would
just like to draw your attention to that which Mr. Strang suggested,
that the board allow them to do what the adjacent property was
allowed to do, as far as landscaping was concerned. You should
be aware that the NYS Department of Transportation was not happy
with the way the landscaping was put in, they thought that it
was intrusive on the right of way and if the board is considering
any changes, I would strongly recommend that they coordinate with
the NYS Department of Transportation so as not to recommend some-
thing that is contrary to what they would give approval for.
Mr. Strang: I'm not sure where the Mills planting falls, I
don't know~.if it fatls~outward.of~the~propertY~tine.
Mr. Orlowski: I wouldn't use that as an example because we
got our wrists slapped for that one. The State now is being
very demanding on how we approve our site plans, even with
driveways in residential areas onto any of their roads. They
are going to look for something maybe a little more substantial
than a planter. We're going to be addressing that and coming
up with something else I'm sure. We'll go out and look at this
and get back to you.
Mr. Strang: O.K., that would be helpful. Is there any idea
as to when the board may be able to schedule that?
Mr. Orlowski: This week or next week. The procedure is, you
should hand this in and we put it on the work session and then
take it right out in the field with us and then get back to you.
Once we get out there I'm sure we're goig to do a lot of work
on that.
Mr. Ward: The main arrow in the front is the only entry?
Mr. Strang: The pedestrian entry is here at the moment, ......
or suggestive location .... in the building. I'll discuss that
further with the owner in case there is some alternative ideas
along this line. The thought was that corner would be the
principle entry to the building.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K..
Mr. Strang: Thank you gentlemen.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 20 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Orlowski: Board to discuss the hiring of the Consulting Firm
of Cramer, Vorrhis and Associates. This will be for the Laurel
Lake Impact Statement.
Mr. Ward: Now this would be that coordinat~ review?
Mr. Orlowski: Right.
Mr. Ward: Since we do have a proposal which we feel is reasonable
I think we should propose a resolution that we address the Town
Board to retain them.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.. Do I have a second?
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Mullen, Mr. Ward, Mr. Oriowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: I have nothing left here. I'll ask if there are
any questions or comments from the audience?
Dorothy Phillips: A member of our group, Mrs. Ceil Loucka, from
Hog Neck wrote and asked if she could speak at this meeting
the meeting of February 6th and when I came in on Friday to
check we found out that the meeting had been changed from 7:30 p.m.
which we thought was the usual time, to 1:00 in the afternoon.
She was not informed of this and she is in her classroom and
cannot leave. We think it was rather discourteous of you that
you did not tell her, she was only a telephone call away.
Consequently, she feels she was not given the opportunity or
courtesy that she should have been. I'd like to make a few
statements on the subject of Angel Shores if I have your per-
mission to do so. Well we would like to make the following
commments.
it is approximately one mile between the Cove and Angel
Shores on Main Bayview.
There are fifty houses in the Bay Haven Development, 53
houses in Terry Waters, and 24 along the North side of Main
Bayview - - a total of 124 homes.
An additional 84 homes between the Cove and Angel Shores
would mean an increase of 66% in the number of homes along this
stretch.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 21 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
This is a significant increase in population density, noise,
traffic, beach use, road run-off,'and attendant problems with
people behavior.
It may happen slowly but a more congested and stressful life
style will certainly affect us all along this stretch of road.
There are those who will say this is not important but it
is important to us. We realize the owner has the right to use
his property as he wishes but we also have a right to protest
what we feel will be injurious to our lifestyle and the environ-
ment we will share.
On the problem of water the County Department of Health
Services said ~ngel Shores had to have a common water system.
Why was that? Because it was not wise to sink individual wells
in the shallow aquifer of Hog Neck.
Why did the DEC insist upon slow-water pumping from the
wells and above ground storage? They feared for the quality
of the water from salt water intrusion.
Why were the wells placed so close to Main Bayview? They
could not depend on the quality of water nearer the shore.
Why was a satellite system installed to service the Cove?
Members of the board now find this a frightening precedent.
Why does the Department of State in its December 1st letter
state that the use of fertilizers and pesticides for lawn treatment
should be prohibited? It's because of their concern for the
quality of the water.
Lastly, why did Greenport Water District refuse to own the
satellite system? They feared~the fragility of the system, the
likelihood of salt water intrusion and lawsuits.
There is a definite problem with water on Hog Neck.
Our aims as a group are: to minimize the effect on the
environment.
We are currently seeking signatures on a petition to encourage
the Town of Southold to acquire Section I of Angel Shores. Please
go down and look at it.
It is a beautiful and diverse area of lang. The NFEC has
suggested that this land be purchased. The Suffolk County Depart-
ment of Health Services has suggested twice in letters to the
Planning Board that this land be purchased.
And why not? The Town of Southold has $1.75 million available
for the purchase of open space. This is a prime example of
property worthy of preservation.
We feel the project is too large for the stretch of land
for which it is proposed. Can't something be done about the
yield?
We thank you for giving us the opportunity to present our
views and we assure you of our intention to continue our strong
opposition to Angel Shores as it is now planned.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments?
Dave Saland: I would like to show a new map on Peco~ic Trails.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 22 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Dave Saland: I have given open space here, the road comes up
on this side. I have two large lots including under the
high tension wires but I've made my building envelopes here,
which is North of the high tension wires. Ten lots in the
woods, using this as the open space part. I might have to
give a little more open space but I can cut down on this lot.
To keep Sophia happy as f~ar as the salt water intrusion I've
give two large lots to the North. What I proposed was a major
road, i'll put %he major road in to start, for the ten lots
and then at the same time or perhaps a little later go in with
a minor a,b,c, and d. Everything South of the high tension wires
· s open space and this will be open space, again building envelopes
here
Mr. Orlowski: You have five acre lots, over five acres, and if w~
allowed the road to be less %han a major, would that interest
you?
Mr. Saland: The whole thing? In other words coming back with
say eight or nine five acre lots?
Mr. Orlowski: Yss, with a substandard road. I'm just asking a
question. The minor road.
Mr. Saland: If you went back to your original.
Mr. Orlowski: You Would save about two years at the County. i'm
just asking, I'm not telling you to do it, we'll go out and look
at this.
Mr. Saland: t have 44.7 acres so we're talking about say five
acre lots so I do eight lots? HoWever, you would want a minor,
you would also cluster the lots on me. In other words, t'if I~
came ~n~with ~ig.k~~ lots yQ~Wo~!~ say to me fine?
Mr. Orlowski: I don't know if we can.
Mr. Saland: Well it depends on what the road specs would be.
Mr. Ward: The minor specs, 20 f%. wide. It's only eight foot
difference.
Mr. Orlowski: Drainage is going to be a lot less because its
going to be less run-off. I would like to look at the wooded
area because this does layout in the wooded area and leaves
the open space open. Just think about that.
Mr. Saland: You know there might be another thought. I have
to do 20 feet of road, I split the piece in four parcels. I
can't see coming up with 3,000 feet of road or 2,500 feet of
road for four parcels.
Mr. Orlowski: And no further subdivision in perpertuity, yes,
we might do that.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 23 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Saland: I'~~ go back to some kind of arrangement for a
road whether it is 15 foot gravel, that gave us so much leverage
when we were developers. The road costs are what kills us today.
Let me try eight lots and I'll also work out a senarial for four
large lots.
Mr. Orlowski-: O.K. I would also like to entertain a resolution
to send over to the Town Board an acceptance of a park and
playground fee of $32,500, for Wolf Pit.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Mullen: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Any questions on the motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Mullen, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Dan Ross: Baxter request for a waiver of site plan. I was here
today mn the event that the board was going to consider it based
on the agenda. I know more information has been gathered by
your staff.
Mr. Ward: Do you know how many employees are going to be there?
Mr. Ross: The tenant is going to be putting cars together. He,told
the ZBA that he was going to be the only person, the only
employee. I intended 'to have him here but I also thought it
was a regular meeting and I can get that in a letter from him
if you want.
Mr. Ward: O.K. The number of employees because we want to work
on the existing plan we have. Several parking spaces lust to
accomodate the site plan. Our concern is down the road if there
is a sale or reuse that the new outfit that comes in that they
realize they only have approval for two or three parking spaces.
Mr. Orlowski: How about landscaping too.
Mr. Ross: We didn't propose landscaping. Do you want it shown
on the map?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Ward: So if we can address the parking related to employees.
Also, there is to be no outside storage.
Mr. Ross: That was in the ZBA.
PLANNING BOARD PAGE 24 FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Mr. Ward: Maybe you can just say that.
Mr. Ross: O.K.. Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments?
Mr. Strang: Two pending applications have come up on the agenda
that I wanted to ask the board f.or~some inp~t~on it. One was sub-
mitted in sketch form two weeks ag6~ i guess for a building
on the corner here immediately next to Thompsons Emporium,
Thompsons Sportswear Emporium. The reason for the sketch sub-
mission was just to get some lmput from the board as to whether
they had any comments on it prior to our making a formal applica-
tion or if we can proceed with the formal application.
Mr. Orlowski: We'.ll put it on the work session.
Mr. Strang: The other question had to do with a different
application. It was nearing completion, I believe, having
to do with the board requesting submission of a floor plan
of the building. I am of the impression that the board asked
that because they, the trade off between the building size
gross and the building size net as it relates to parking spaces
provided. The reason we're reluctant to supply a floor plan is
because the building obviously is a retail use or office use
is subject to the needs of the tenant and even if submitted to
the board would be subject to chan~e. We did try to address
your concerns to how much would be used for either office or
retail by denoting some much area would be used for that. The
other question is in reviewing the new code that is part of
the master plan adoption. The parking criteria has changed
somewhat with respect to retail use and those parking criteria
we exceed considerable parking spaces that would be needed.
Mr. Orlowski: Maybe we can put more landscaping in.
Mr. Strang: If we reduce the number of parking spaces we can
put in more landscaping.
Mr. Orlowski: We'll take a look at that.
Mr. Strang: Can the board address a letter to us on that?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Any other comments? Hearing none, any
question from the board. None. Someone make a motion.
Mr. Mullen~ So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Mullen, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. 0rtowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Meeting closed at 2:35 p.m.
PLANNING BOARD
PAGE 25
FEBRUARY 6, 1989
Being no further business to come before the board, on motion
made by Mr. Mutlen, seconded b y Mr. Latham, and carried the
meeting was adjourned ak 2:35 p.m..
RespectfUlly submitted,
Temporary secretary
SouthOld Planning Board
Chairman
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK
D~.T~ ~/~/~ ~ouR ~.'~
Town Clerk, Town o~ Southold