HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-12/17/1990PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman
George Ritchie Latham. Jr.
Richard G. Ward
Mark S. McDonald
Kenneth L. Edwards
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
SCOTI' L. HARRIS
Supervisor
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-1823
MINUTES
DECEMBER 17, 1990
Present were:
Bennett Orlowski Jr., Chairman
Richard Ward
Kenneth Edwards
Mark McDonald
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Holly Perrone
Jane Rousseau
Absent:
G. Richie Latham
Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would~ike to call this meeting
to order. First order of business we-have some hearings held
over from our previous meetings. The North Forty - This major
subdivision is for thirteen 16ts on 30.3565 acres on the south
side of Oregon Road; 621 feet west of Depot Lane in Cutchogue.
SCTM ~1000-95-4-14.1. We are still examining alternative
options for the ownership for the open space and I will
enueruain a motion to keep this hearing open.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any question on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlows~i.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 2 DECEMBER 17, 1991
Mr. Orlowski: Baxter Sound Estates - This minor subdivision
is for two lots on 5.022 acres located on the north side of
Oregon Road; 1100 feet west of Bridge Lane in Cutchogue.
SCTM #1000-72-3-2.1 & 3.
Mr. McDonald: I would like to offer the following motion.
The final public hearing, which was opened on June 4, 1990,
will again be kept open until the Planning Board reviews the
road profiles and grading plans in respect to recent adopted
road specifications.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes; Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Eleanor Sievernicb - This minor subdivision
is for two lots on 3.7648 acres located on the east side of Cox
Neck Lane in Mattituck.
SCTM $ 1000-113-8-5. We'll still waiting for the report from
the Trustees. What is the pleasure of the board on keeping this
open?
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any ~estions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISION, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS
Final Extensions:
Mr. Orlowski: Henry Appel - This major subdivision is for
seven lots on 15.3573 acres located at the southwest corner of
New Suffolk Avenue and Ole Jule Lane in Mattituck.
Mr. Ward: Mr. C~irman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
PLANNING BOARD
~ DEI
EMBER 17, 19913
_:~_~__RE~¥F~ that. the Sout~old Town Planning~Board grant a
~x~y %~u; aay extension o~ conditional final approval. The 90
day extension will expire on March 6, 1991 unless all conditions
of approval have been fulfilled. This will b the last
extension that will be granted.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr~ Orlowski, Mr. McDona] ~, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Setting of Final Hearings:
Mr. Orlowski: Howard Rosenstone - This major subdivision
is for four lots on 13.64 acres located on t~ south side of
Oregon Road; 222,07 feet east of Cox's Lane i~ Cutchogue.
SCTM 9 1000-83-3-2.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday,
January 14, 1991 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public hearing on the
maps dated July 19, 1989.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Sketch Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: West Mill Road Subdivision (formerly Paul
Frie~ber~) - This major subdivision is for ten lots on 22.106
acres located on the west side of West Mill Road; in Mattituck.
SCTM ~ 1000-106-9-4.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
PLANNING BOARD 4
DECEMBER 17, 1991
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning grant sketch
approval on the map dated November 1990 with the following
condition:
That building envelopes, in conformance with the
fronT, rear, and side yard setbacks for the R-40
District, are shown for all lots.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: John S. Guest & Margaret H. Guest - This
minor subdivision is for three lots on 13.7 acres located on the
west side of Crescent Avenue on Fishers Island.
SCTM ~ 1000-6-1-5.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
Be it RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
sketch approval on the map dated November 30, 1990, with the
following condition:
1. The upland area of each lot must be stated on the map.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.
the motion? Ail those in favor?
Any questions on
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Wanat Set-Off - This proposal is to set off
a ten acre parcel from an existing 107.62 acre parcel located on
the north side of Bergen Avenue in Mattituck.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
BE IT~ESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
sketch aPProval on the map dated November 29, 1990.
PLANNING BOARD 5
DECEMBER 17, 1991
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Sketch Extensions:
Mr. Orlowski: Salvatore and Jeanne Catapann - This minor
subdivision is for four lots on 13.73 acres locatsd on the
easterly side of South Harbor Road at Southold.
SCTM ~i000-69-6-9,2.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six
month extension of sketch approval from December 4, 1990 to
June 4, 1991. Sketch approval was granted on June 4, 1990.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mro McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Review of Reports: Engineer's Report
Mr. Orlowski: Franklin Blachty - This major subdivision is
for nine lots on 20.4 acres located on the northeast side of
Alvah's Lane; 2,873 feet northwest of NYS 25 in Cutchogue.
SCTM ~ 1000-102-4-5.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
RESOLVED to adopt the engineer's report dated
November 30, 1990.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
PLANNING BOARD 6
DECEMBER 17, 1991
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Southold Villas - This proposal is for both a
subdivision and site plan. The subdivision is for seventeen
affordable lots and the site plan is for sixteen condominium
units. The parcel is located on the west side of NYS 25
approximately 1,400 feet north of Ackerly Pond Lane.
SCTM ~ 1000-70-1-6.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
Be it RESOLVED to adopt the engineer's report dated
December 4, 1990, in reference to both the subdivision and site
plan for Southold Villas.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Also, with Southold Villas we have the Suffolk
County Planning Commission's Report.
Mr. Edwards: I would like to offer the following motion.
Be it RESOLVED to adopt the December 6, 1990 Suffolk County
Planning Commission report in reference to both the subdivision
and the site plan for Southold Villas.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Lead Agency Coordination:
Mr. Orlowski: West Mill Road Subdivisio~ (formerly Paul
Friedberg) SCTM $ 1000-106-9-4.
PLANNING~ BOA/{D 7 DECEMBER 17, 1991
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
Lead Agency coordination process on this unlisted action.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: John S. Guest & Margaret H. Guest SCTM ~ 1000-112-1-6-1-5.
Mr. Edwards - Mr. Chairman, I would make the following motion.
Be it RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board staru
the Lead Agency coordination process on this unlisted action.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ortowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Wanat Set-off - SCTM 9 1000-112-1-16.1
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start
the Lead Agency coordination process on this unlisted action.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 8
DECEMBER 17, 1991
SITE PLANS
Site Plans - State Environmental Quality Review Act
Lead Agency:
Mr. Orlowski: McDonalds Corporation - SCTM #1000-122-7-3.2
This proposal if for a restaurant on a three acre parcel located
at Mattituck.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board,
acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, assume
lead agency status on this unlisted action.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Review of Reports: Engineering
Mr. Orlowski: McDonalds Corporatio~ - SCTM $
1000-122-7-3.2.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion:
BE IT RESOLVED to adopt the engineers report dated
November 28, 1990.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questionson the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. MCDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. OrlOwski:
reports,
Southold Villas - Already done on both
LOCAL LAW PROPOSALS
PLANNING BOARD 9 DECEMBER 17, 1991
Mr. Orlowski: Local law in relation to Accessory Building
Setbacks.
Mr. Ward: We are in favor of the revised edition.
Mr. McDonald: I would like to amend this to simply state that
we would suggest that lots in access of 80,000 square feet have
a 20 foot setback. Everything over 40,000 square feet or
greater would have a ten foot setback. They are asking for lots
which are 39,999 or larger to have only ten foot setbacks up to
whatever size the lot would be. I'm saying on top of that we
should create one more category above 80,000 square feet or
above which would have 20 foot setbacks.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K..
Mr. McDonald: That is the only amendment I would make in the
change in the code that they are proposing.
Mr. Ward: I'll second it.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Ortowski, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
SETTING OF NEXT PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Mr. Orlowski: Board to set Monday, January 14, 1991 at 7:30
p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time
and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting.
Mr. McDonald: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Being I have nothing left on my agenda, I will
ask if there are any questions or comments from anyone out there?
PLANNING BOARD 10 DECEMBER 17, 1991
Sherry Johnson: North Fork Environmental Council - You just
adopted a resolution declaring yourself as lead agency for
McDonalds application?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Ms. Johnson: Can I ask, since I am new to the Southold way of
doing things could you perhaps clarify me when you will be
determining significance on this?
Mr. Orlowski: First we will have to review it. We have
twenty days so within that 20 days. Probably by the next
meeting.
Ms. Johnson: So by the next meeting you will be making a
decision.
Mr. Orlowski: A determination.
Ms. Johnson: O.K., I would like to urge you to please consider
giving it a positive declaration for the reasons that I stated.
I believe you all received a copy of my letter and I would like
to request that you give it a positive declaration and require
the narrowly scoped impact statement that North Fork
Environmental Council requested. Thank you.
Mr. McDonald: I read your letter and I was wondering if you
have any basis? You are asking us to make it a positive
declaration, this is an unlisted action. I read your letter as
I said and it stated some things in general terms, in terms of
the traffic impact and the impact of trash. The way it is
phased in the letter these are only value judgements that you
have in the letter in your opinion. Do you have any evidence or
any factual data that you could forward to us that would
substantiate the claim that you are making.
Ms. Johnson: At this time, not really, only from a traffic
study. It indicated that it could add a large number of cars to
the intersections. We feel that needs more research.
Mr. McDonald: Let me just suggest if you have something
subsitive, if you could put it in writing and get it to us I
would appreciate that.
Ms. Johnson: O.K. fine, thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., anyone else have any questions?
Mr. Warren Goldstein: I am the executive director of the
North Fork Environmental Council and I just wanted to follow
just a little bit further about what Mark McDonald was asking my
associate Sherry Johnson. Mark, would it help if we do a full
analysis of the traffic study as well because the traffic study
that was submitted as part of the application is not only in
PLANNING BOARD 11 DECEMB~ 17, 1991
general terms inadequate it is probably in specific demonstrable
terms inadequate as well. Would you like to see that in writing
as well?
Mr._McDonald: I think if you have objections, you need to be
q~.alitative but you need to be quantitative as well. It is
simply a comment that you are in opposition because of the
traffic problems. It would be helpful for me if you had
specific problems about technical points that you bring them
forward. It is very difficult if people have problems and just
say I don't like the looks of it or I don't have a good feeling
about it. In the SEQRA process it doesn't have much bearing. I
cannot tell you if you have problems how to approach it, I'm
just saying I'm going to make decisions based on factual
evidence presented into the record, not on people saying well, I
kind of like it, I kind of don't like it. It is not a
popularity contest. How may people like it and how many people
don't like it. If you have problems with it, under the category
justified in SEQRAmake them so you can bring those forward.
Mr. Goldstein: I think that is precisely the kind of process
we have begun. I am not sure that people fully understand, I am
not sure if the board is aware or if all the boards had the
opportunity to read the letter that was forwarded to the board
by my associate Ms. Johnson. I don't think that the specific
citations from the SEQRA law add up to we kind of don't like it.
Mr. McDonald: I am not trying to apply that, I'm just trying to
show you that there are two ends of the stick.
Mr. Goldstein: And we don't purport to be on either end of
the stick. We p~rport to be solidly in the middle of community
character and our argument about traffic for instance is not
that we think that there will be more cars, it is that the very
foundations of the study, in quotation marks, Which as presented
to the board are inadequate for tha~ study so that when we argue
that a full study of traffic impact needs to be made we are
saying that just simply transposing something that happened in
Riverhead or an analysis of R~verhead traffic patterns to
Mattituck is inadequate. We think that that is actually
hardheaded, that actually deals with the technical assumptions
underlying that study and argue therefore that when this makes
a determination having to do with taking into account traffic in
Mattituck that it needs a study that actually has a firm
foundation. In fact, as opposed to what struck me as sloppy
sociology to start with, in technical terms simply transposing
numbers. There are a number of other areas that I think need to
be addressed in terms of that study, distribution of
questionnaires at windows in the McDonalds in Riverhead strikes
me as another woefully inadequate way of conducting a study and
finally the actual numbers that are used would raise the
eyebrows of anyone that read it carefully. It seemed to be
saying in fact that the addition of the drive- thru window
might increase traffic by forty-six cars over the course of 4000
PLANNING BOARD 12 DECEMBER 17, 1991
customers to McDonalds which strikes me also technically,
mathematically almost impossible. There are additional things
that we would have problems with and I'm happy to bring them to
the board's attention.
Mr. McDonald: That would go through on a case by case basis?
would go through on a case by case basis every line, every
problem. On every problem you see and on every line on the
report, I would rather see that than a one page letter saying
that it is woefully inadequate. Do you understand what I am
saying?
I
Mr. Goldstein: I think I do.
Mr. McDonald: I would much rather see that point by point. When
you say this is stupid, this line is stupid because, then I can
get a hold of that and go ah, yes.
Mr. Goldstein: Well, it will be our pleasure I suppose to
give you precisely that kind of a analysis of a document which
seems to me fundamentally irrelevant to the problem but we would
be delighted to do that if that will assist the board in its
determinations. I'm wondering along the same lines since one of
the things we've argued at some length and continue to argue is
that community character is not an easily quantifiable thing, it
is something that has a kind of qualitated feel to it and I'm
sure that is something that you folks struggle with on an
extremely regular basis but one of the things that does effect
the character of the co~unity this way as kinds of businesses
come into it setting precedence for businesses quite like that
and that is a point that we made in our letter. It seems to me
that it is worthy of consideration and it also seems to me
worthy of consideration whether or not this will add or detract
from the character of the town that you serve and that we all
would like to see preserved in some recognizable form so I think
that we will probably mix qualitated judgements along with
quantitative analysis but I think qualitative analysis of the
character of Southold Town is absolutely essential in figuring
out whether or not to give this a positive or negative
declaration. We would argue on qualitated as well as
technical grounds that it deserves a positive declaration, that
it requires that narrowly scoped impact study that Sherry
talked about. Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Thank you. Any other questions this evening.
Mr. Raynor: Mr. Chairman, I didn't realize this was going to
be a hearing but on behalf of McDonalds Corporation, I will
completely stand behind the engineer's report. Mr. Dunnhas
had many, many reports before this board and is know nationally
for several of his studies. As to community character, I'm not
sure that has any bearing in reference to SEQRA. As speaking
generally and not prepared to have any comments because I did
not see this listed as a public hearing, I would certainly think
PLANNING BOARD 13 DECEMBER 17, 1991
that the mitigating circumstances that have been presented would
cause the board to come up with an unlisted action to a negative
declaration. Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: This is not a public hearing, I am just asking
if anyone has any comments. It is Christmas and I want to be
nice.
Anyone else have any questions or comments on anything? It
doesn't have to be McDonalds, and it isn't a public hearing .
Bruce Issacs from Cutchogue - I am not an expert at all in
SEQRA but I was just wondering. It seems to me that this will
set a precedent for more fast foods coming into this area and so
therefore it will have an environmental impact on the rural
quality of our town and what would it hurt to examine this in
more depth? I mean, who is going to get hurt by asking for more
in depth environmental impacted study. Could someone give me an
answer to that one. Why does it hurt to look at it carefully
rather than say ah, no problem.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, I can assure you that we will look at it
very carefully.
Mr. Issacs: Isn't that what SEQRA provides for?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Issacs: But if you give it a negative declaration then
essentially that part is over with.
Mr. Orlowski: But, what information will be provided to us by
other sources we will review very carefully.
Mr. Issacs: O.K., thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Anyone else? Hearing nothing, I will make a
motion to adjourn.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: So ordered.
Mr. Bitses:
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Bitses:
May I address the board?
We adjourned but go ahead.
I spoke to the Town Attorney because I received a
letter from you indicating that you have examined my covenants
and restrictions and in the letter is a copy of the covenants
and restrictions that you have examined which were dated June,
PLANNING BOARD i4 DECEMBER 17, 1991
1989. They were not the covenants and restrictions that I had
submitted to Valerie or to the Town Attorney and I have copies
of those covenants and restrictions in my file here. Somehow,
you considered the wrong covenants and restrictions which have
long since been overridden and the ones that I submitted in
August, were not the ones that you sent me the letter ~hout.
The letter goes into detail about why covenants and restrictions
submitted on August i6th, were not adequate but, what the
letter is obviously referring to are covenants and restrictions
long since in limbo. In other words, a year and a half ago. So
could I offer to give you copies of the very same covenants and
restrictions that I gave the Town Attorney and I gave Valerie
Scopaz for your examination.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, of course.
Mr. Bitses: Now tell me, why does it take four months to go
from there to here? That is only ~hout ten feet. I guess they
send it by mail. In any event, I'm just kidding. Here is the
letter I got from you dated November 27th. These were
submitted August 16th. I did what you told me to do. I
believe the Town Attorney has O.K.'d them or has looked at them.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., we will into it.
Mr. Bitses: Merry Christmas to you.
Mr. Orlowski: Shall we adjourn the meeting now?
Mr. McDonald: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: So ordered.
Being there was no further business to come before the board,
the meeting was adjourned at 8:10 p.m..
Respectfully submitted,
an~eR~usseau, -
Bennett O~owsk~ ~r., Cha~~