HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/13/1990PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman
George Ritchie Latham. Jr.
Richard G. Ward
Mark S. McDonald
Kenneth L. Edwards
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
SCOTT L. HARRIS
Supervisor
Town Hall. 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold. New York 11971
Fax (516~ 765-1823
AUGUST 13, 1990
MINUTES
Present were:
Bennett Orlowski, Chairman
G. Richie Latham
Kenneth Edwards
Mark McDonald
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Holly Perrione, Secretary
Absent:
Richard Ward
Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings:
Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would like to Call this meeting
to order. First order of business is The North Forty - This
major subdivision is for thirteen lots on 30.3565 acres on the
south side of Oregon Road; 621 feet west of Depot Lane in
Cutchogue. SCTM # 1000-95-4-14.1
Mr. Orlowski: We will keep this hearing open. The applicant
has a question on the open space which he is negotiating with
our town attorney. Are there any questions on this
subdivision? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to keep this
hearing open.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Mo~ion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
PLANNING BOARD 2 AUGUST 13, 1990
Ayes:
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Opposed? So ordered.
Baxter Sound Estates This minor subdivision
is for two lots on 5.022 acres located on the north side of
Oregon Road; 1100 feet west of Bridge Lane in Cutchogue.
SCTM # i000-72-2-2.1 & 3.
Mr. Orlowski: There are some questions on the road
specifications in this and the applicant has agreed to keep the
hearing open. I'll ask if there are any questions or co~ents
on this subdivision while it is open. Hearing none, I'll
entertain a motion to keep it open.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS
Final Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Fishers Island Utilit¥ - This minor
subdivision is for two residential lots located on Fishers
Island.
SCTM ~1000-6-6-20.
Mr. Edwards: I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED, that the Planning Board authorize the Chairman
to endorse the final surveys dated June 4, 1990. Conditional
final apprOVal was granted on April 9, 1990. All conditions
have been fulfilled.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald.
PLANNING BOARD 3 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. (Chairman endorsed maps.)
Mr. Orlowski: Francis P. Melly - This lot line is to add
1018 square feet to an 11,495 square foot parcel, located at
Cutchoque. SCTM 91000-68-1-4-5.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
WHEREAS, Francis P. and Bernice J. Melly are the owners
of the property known and designed as SCTM 91000-68-1-4,5,
located at Diamond Lane (private Road) west of Soundview
Avenue in Cutchoque; and
WHEREAS, this lot line, to be known as Lot Line Change for
Francis Melly, is for a lot line change adding 1,198 square
feet to 11,395 square foot parcel of the applicant; and
WHEREAS, the'Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
March 26, 1990; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
July 16, 1990; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and
be it therefore
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and
authorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey dated April
19, 1990.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr.. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. (Chairman endorsed maps).
Final Extensions:
Mr. Orlowski: North Road Associates - This major
subdivision is on 16.886 acres located in Orient.
~1000-18-3-1.3.
$CTM
PLANNING BOARD 4 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Edwards: I would like to make the following motion.
RESOLVED to extend the time period in which the Planning
Board must take action after the final hearing for an additional
49 days. The extension will run until October 1, 1990.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Adams Associates - This minor subdivision is
for four lots on 7.67977 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM % 1000-113-12-10.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six
(6) month extension of conditional final approval. Conditional
final approval was granted on February 13, 1990. The extension
will run until February 13, 1991.
Please note that this is the last extension that the
Planning Board will be granting.
Mr. Edwards: Second~
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Setting of Final Hearings:
Mr. Orlowski: Franklinville Homes - This major subdivision
is for fifteen lots on 35.876 acres located at Laurel.
SCTM %t000-125-2-2.2.
Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
PLANNING BOAteD 5 AUGUST 13, 1990
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday,
September 10, 1990 at 7:30 p.m. for a final p,~hlic hearing on
the maps dated June 26, 1990.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald°
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: John Wickham - This minor subdivision is for
two lots on 10.550 acres located on New Suffolk Road in Southold.
SCTM 91000-110-8-32.1.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make the following
motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday,
September 10, 1990 at 7:35 p.m. for a final public hearing on
the maps dated January 16, 1990.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Pa~l Friedber~ - This is to set off a
2.1207 acre lot from a 24.226 acre parcel located at Mattituck.
SCTM ~ 1000-106-9-4.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday,
September 10, 1990 at 7:40 p.m. for a final public hearing on
the maps dated April 12, 1990.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in faVor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards.
PLANNING BOARD 6 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. 0rlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Sketch Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Bayberry Estates - This major subdivision is
for eighteen lots on 50.0171 acres located on the west side of
Laurel Avenue; 140 feet soutk of Yennecott Drive in Southold.
SCTM ~ 1000-55-6-35 & 36 and 56-1~1.
~r. Latham: I would like to offer the following motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated October 23, 1989.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, M~. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: James & David Cross - This minor subdivision
is for two lots on 5.918 acres located on the north side of Main
Road, 760 feet off of Wagon Wheel Lane right of way in
Cutchoque. SCTM ~ 1000-108-3-12-1.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated July 19, 1990.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. ~ny questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr, Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Harry G. & Janet Hohn - This minor
subdivision is for four lots on 7.368 acres located on the
southwest corner of Aborn Lane and Nassau Point Road in
Cutchogue.
SCTM ~ 100-118-6-1 & 3.
PLANNING BOARD 7 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated January 26, 1990 with the following
conditions:
A covenant and restriction be placed on Lot #1
stating that there is to be no further subdivision
in perpetuity.
2. The final maps be prepared at a scale of 1" = 100'.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion?
George Burrell: I am the owner of adjacent property to this
aBd'i make an Objection on this proposed subdivision. We have a
n~er of objections partially to the extent that what is
contemplated here is not fully revealed inthe papers which were
~ubmitted and there seems to be very definite set-offs involving
~tiands, ponds and other incidents that apPea~ on this, in
addition to which that has already been carved out of the main
area a lot that is now represented earlier a~d I wo~ld submit
re hasbeen nothing indicated as to w~ethe~ or not there
any restrictions or convenances ~adei at that time.
has been shown on any of the documents here. Of course
we are als° concerned with the facb of the that
to be drilled in connection with~ it at the
map the proximity of the area and the
wou list the materials and have
to be-drawnbut made in connection with this
it seems to me, be a charge and a burden on th~s
area. I own something like six or seven lots
adjacent to all of this and it seems tO me that my right to make
application in the future should I desire to Without any
necessity of gong through a change Wi~h or
any zoning Sinc~ I have the zones and the
already been given since the original map of 1922. It seems to
me that I would ~e faced with the proposition thatthere is a
circuit on thenecessarywater supply, wellsand the waste
material or septic tanks whatever they may be. I kno~ for a
fact that this is a precarious area and I think it is a known
fact and I am a member of the Nassau Point
Association, as a matter of fact under the ~ a
representation here in which we have explored with numerous
experts as tO the ability to obtain water from the various wells
that are now in eXistence. I for myself have had one of my
wells go bad and we've had to draw a new well in order to be
able to continue to have water on my property as it is now.
Additionally, as I said there has not been a fully complete
indications as to how this property is to be used. There is a
question of access to the beach and there is this other element
in which is proposed as given to me that a structure would have
to built right through the wetlands and somewhere across either
'. PLANNING BOARD 8 AUGUST 13, 1990
the pond or the stream that leads into this pond, now that may
or may not be an objection to this particular
subdivision but it seems to me that when you are talking shout
sketch determinations that you should have the full ideas that
are being presented by this applicant and not merely this
particular sketck which is drawn and doesn't show too much of
anything except that it does indicate that on the seven acres
you've got approximately two.which consist of the pond and the
wasteland. Additionally, if one looks at the deeds, now this
may of course be a matter of appreciation I don't know but this
as not yet been determined and it has not as yet been set forth
and it has not yet been shown in any way on this Particular
sketch. I know for a fact that the deed, the prior deed to the
owners of the propert~ who have had this property since, I think
it goes back to the forties, I have known the Colby's since 1973
or 1974 and I know for a fact that this dimension that they have
on this sketch is incorrect as far as the deed in concerned.
Now, I cannot and I am not the surveyor and I cannot determine
whether or now at the present time it is correct but according
to the legend that is drawn here it is drawn from a map of 1922
which is the original subdivision and that original subdivision
does not show any such dimension on this particular subdivision
maps as they appear at that time. Again, we have a question of
environment and we have a question of whether there is fully set
forth what is suppose to be a sketch dete=mination and I would
certainly object to it on the ground that we definitelyhave a
great deal more than what is being presented here.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, you've brought some questions and a lot
of them are out of our domain. Our map does show the, deletes
the upland and the pond area and it does show enough upland and
as far as water those are health department questions that they
will have to answer before any approval is granted. This board
right now is only. looking at the layout itself~ I think another
point you said about creating another lot, this board will look
into because that would make it a major subdivision and not a
minor subdivision.
Mr. Burrell: As one can see from the sketch it seemed very
evident that the Hurley property was cut rightout.
Mr. Orlowski: It does but as we look at it and also in the
key map it does show that it is out of there but it's something
that this board will look into . On our map, like I said, we
may have more information on this sketch here ~which is available
in the office aay time for your review or any one else's. Does
the board have any co~auents or questions?
Mr. Burrell: There has been something evidentially filed as
of this morning which I have not had an opportunity to review.
When I called this morning I was told that there was something
expected and was coming in that had to do with this particular
sketch determination.
-PLANNING BOARD 9 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: It was just the environmental impact long form
that was handed in. That will be there also for review. All
these procedures have yet to be gone through, we are only
looking at sketch plan. The point that you brought up about
creating a fifth lot, is there anyone here representing the
applicant?
William Esseks: I'm representing the applicant. Obviously,
you understand that the question of the water supply and sewage
is subject to the jurisdiction of the Health Department. We
will have to comply with that. Now, the creation of the
Burrell lot shows up in title information that you submitted
and well indicates the whole question of the direction of this
subdivision. There are two houses on the site already and there
are 7.368 acres in an R-40 district and we will comply to the
minor subdivision, requirements. There will be plenty of yield
and lots are all oversize and we will meet each aspect of the
criteria of the rules and regulations of the Town of Southold.
I urge the board to accept and close the resolution and vote on
it (inaudible). What we filed this morning was a long form
environmental assessment form which we were asked to file and
had completed.
Mr. Burrell: I would point out that one dimension is very
obviously contrary to the deed that was given. I know that for
a fact because the same deed that gave me that line years ago it
sold to the Colby or the Barforidge family at the same time so
that the sketch certainly needs some kind of an explanation. I
also ask whether or not it is necessary for an environmental
impact statement to be made in connection with this in view of
the fact that you do have wetlands and you do have beach and you
do have a stream and a pond. As ~a matter of fact as it is
indicated it is almost one-third of the property that is devoted
to the wetlands and pond.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, he just handed in his long form for his
environmental impact.
Mr. McDonald: It is a more stringent requirement than the short
form.
Mr. Orlowski: That is on file.
Mr. Esseks: I believe you have a report from the Town
Trustees.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, we have that in the file too.
Mr. McDonald: I was uncertain as to what you were saying.
you claiming the lot that is marked on this map is predated
zoning?
Were
Mr. Burrell: No. My point is that there are a lot of
questions to be answered before any determination can be made.
PLANNING BOARD 10 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: We agree with you.
Mr. BurrelI: I haven't seen the answers to it.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, we will look for them also.
Mr. Esseks: The board corresponded with us some months ago
and asked us certain questions about the access and asked us for
our sources of title and they have been submitted to the board.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., we'll have to review those.
Mr. McDonald: I think on the basis of this I will withdraw my
motion and can we ask for a request from the people who are
interested for their questions in writing?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, if anyone else has any comments or
questions, this is not a public hearing and we don't have a lot
of time and things will be more well addressed in writing than
by any speeches to be given tonight.
Mr. I am president of the Nassau Point Property
in large we are always anxious to gain
new as Mr, Burrell stated we do have a water issue
on Point and we are not anxious to gain new~ members by
of s~bdivisionl I would submit to the board that the
f Trustees on January 22, 1988 in a letter to James
& Co. key points. It said Nassa~ Point
could conside~ and not just treated asp art of the
has a larger reserve of water to draw from. I
has limited water and (inaudible). on February
3rd in 1982 of Nassau Point Associatio~ from the
of the by Mr. Pell. It I
enc. a copy of the
of investigation on .ty of the
I have a copy of which was
pre at 1981 meeting and I read
severalbrief that report. It
int as a small body ~water which
Precipitation provide
of ~ of the groundwater res~rvoir~ As part of
overland to surroundinq salt water bodies
and fres] ponds, apart is returned to
evaporationand the remainder of the '
the groundwater. Some seepage into groUndwater eventually
reachesthe reservoir and becomes available for withdrawal. Then
it goes on to say, it does go through some interesting
statistics, none of which I understand except the bottom line
and that says, there should be no more than 350 homes on Nassau
Point and ladies and gentlemen we have now exceeded that number
and that is primarily wh¥ we are opposed to any further
subdivisionS onNassau Point and I would be glad to hand this
document up to this board for their consideration.
PLANNING BOARD 11 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.t just to let you know that the board is
well aware that there are major water problems in Nassau Point
and that is why all subdivision applications do go through the
Health Department to review these for water and when it does get
there they will make the determination and give the answer on
that. But for right now, we have a motion to rescind the other
motion.
Mr. Laths/n: I'll second that.
Mr. Orlowski: Oh, you withdrew it. O.K..
Mr. Esseks: Would the board advise me as to what additional
matters which are addressed to them.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, we will.
Mr. McDonald: I think we would like to receive whatever they
are going to put in writing so we can clear up everything at
once.
Mr. Esseks: I understand but because they are against the
application they'll take as much time as you give them.
Mr. McDonald: I'm sure they will proceed diligently or we will
proceed.
Mr. Esseks: Can I assume that if they don't have it in by two
days before the next meeting that (inaudible).
Mr. Burrell: May I please add another word. In the first
place, I do not have access to all of the things that have been
presented as of now. I don't say that it has been refused to me
but from what I learned tonight it seems to me that I had better
have access to whatever files and whatever documents there may
be so that I will have the opportunity to respond. In addition
to which there is this question as to tearing down and actually
Clearing land which has been occurring here and I think the
board knows that it's been occurring here which I think is
horrible and I think is definitely done without any requests for
any avenue open to the board or to anybody. This has been
completely horrendous in view of the fact that a great deal of
itt as t understand it was part of the wetlands and yet what has
been done here and I don't know that it not being continued as
of today.
Mr. Orlowski: We questioned it and the Trustees have sent us
a letter ofreport stating that there has been clearing tkere
but they have let the applicant know that no further clearing
will take place without a pezfL,it.
Mr. Burrell: Have they reviewed what has been cleared and
whether or not it was or was not permitted?
PLANNING BOARD 12 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: We have a Trustee's report. Ail these files
are open to the public.
Mr. Burrell: The point to the matter ~is that I have an
objection to this and yet, I did not know the Trustees made an
examination. Why wasn't I consulted to tell them what I saw
them do. I mean afterall, I was there. I am there and nobody
asked me any questions. I don't get notice and I feel that this
should be done and if there is anything to be done here I should
have some voice in doing it because this is immediately adjacent
to me and is threatening my rights to water and other things
that are on my property and have been on my property for many,
many years and it seems to me that I should have some
opportunity to respond to these things yet he calls me
stonewalling and he says he wants a response from the board
without giving me any access as to what has been filed. He
doesn't serve me with anything. I am an attorney, I know that
one thing that we do get in the court's is that you get
opposition papers or if you get an application, you get every
damn paper that is to be presented and yo~ have an opportunity
to reply to it and that is the way we work in this country.
Mr. 0rlowski: Well, let me assure you that all of the files
are open in the Planning Board Office to whoever wants to review
them.
Mr. Burrell: Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: A. P. Sepenoski, Jr. - This proposal is to
set off a 90,697 square foot parcel from an existing ten acre
parcel located on Main Road, East Marion, Soutkold.
SCTM # 1000-31-1-5.2
Mr. Latham: I would like to offer a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated February 7, 1990.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Sketch Extensions:
PLANNING BOARD 13 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Jennie Harris Estates - This minor
subdivision is for two lots on 49,453 square feet located on the
northwest side of County Road 48, 918 feet northwest of Cox Lane
in Cutchogue.
SCTM # 1000-96-1-18.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
RESOLVED that the Southcld Town Planning Board grant a six
month extension of sketch approval from August 13, 1990 to
February 13, 1991.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes; Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Review of Reports: Suffolk County Planning Commission
Mr. Orlowski: Long Meadow Estates - This major subdivision
is for sixteen lots on 36.9639 acres located on the north side
of Sound Avenue, 337 feet west of the northwest corner of Cox
Lane and Sound Avenue and the west side of Cox Lane, 428 feet
north of the northwest corner of Cox Lane and Sound Avenue in
Mattituck.
SCTM # 1000-113-7-19.2.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make the following
motion.
RESOLVED to override the July 12, 1990, Suffolk County
Planning Co~u~ission report for the following reasons (numbers
correspond to numbers in report):
1 & 2 - The Planning Board required that an access
be provided and maintained for emergency purposes.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 14 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Salvatore & Jeanne Catapano - This minor
subdivision is for four lots on 13.73 acres located on the
easterly side of South Harbor Road at Southold.
SCTM % 1000-69-6-9.2.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
RESOLVED to override the July 12, 1990 Suffolk County
Planning Commission report for the following reasons (number
correspond to number in report).
addition
The Planning Board has required that proof .of access
over the right-of-way for the adjacent parcel (owned
by Beinert) be submitted for Lot Number 2. In
these lots will be required to have a common driveway.
The board has designed the subdivision in this manner
to eliminate any additional access points on Main Road.
A subdivision with an access road from South Harbor
Road and two lots located at the southeastern side of
the lot would not allow Lot Number 3 to be 10 acres
in area. Lot number 3 is currently used for
agricultural purposes, requiring the 10 acres.
The Planning Board is also requiring that a declaration
of Covenants and Restrictions be filed prohibiting any
further subdivision of Lot Number 3.
2. The Planning Board is requiring that this subdivision
be filed in the County Clerk{s office.
e
The Planning Board is also required that street trees
be planted along Main Road. These trees are to be
determined at a later date.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion?
Mr. Caminiti: Mr. Chairman, I am representing the applicant.
I haven't seen the Planning Board recommendations, this is the
first I've heard about it.
Mr. McDonald: Would you like me to summarize it?
Mr. Caminiti: Yes please.
Mr. McDonald: The County denied this because the access they
thought was improper. We're overriding it and we are listing
the reasons we are overriding it. It was a lengthy discussion
of why but basically it came down to that we are satisfied with
· . PLANNING BOARD 15 AUGUST 13, 1990
the access so with that in mind we've asked them to override
it. Then we said it should be filed in the County Clerk's
office and the last one is standard, we are asking for street
trees.
Mr. Orlowski: Do you have a copy of the County Repot
Ms. Spiro: You'll get one in the mail but you can ha'
if you want.
Mr. Caminiti: Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., no further questions on the moti )n? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ed ~ards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Review of Reports: Engineering Reports:
Franklinville Homes - SCTM #
Mr. Orlowski:
1000-i25-2-2.2.
~?
~e this one
Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED to adopt the engineer's report dated August 9,
1990.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. McDonald: I would also like to make the following motion.
RESOLVED to adopt the bond estimate dated as revised August
13, 1990 by the Planning Board and to reco~,uend same to the Town
Board. The bond estimate is in the amount~of $531,980.00, with
an inspection fee in the amount of $31,918.80.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
m~tion. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
- · PLANNING BOARD 16 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Island Estates - This major subdivision is
for I0 lots on 28.5073 acres located on the south side of Main
Road; 1758 feet west of Narrow River Road in Orient.
SCTM % 1000-18-6-19.
Mr. Latham: I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED to adopt the engineer's report dated July 18, 1990.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion?
Donna Geraghty: Good evening, I would just like to say that I
think at this time, I have proposed ten lots on Island Estates.
Due to the fact that on my original yield map I had to allow for
park and recreation at this time what I would like to do is go
back and redraw the map and I think the fact that I had to take
property now. I would be entitled to additional lot is my
understanding, correct me if I am wrong.
Mr. Orlowski: Right, if it comes out.
Donna Geraghty: I did meet with Howard Young and he did seem to
think it could be done. I do have one question. How do you
feel about flag lots? Behind lot seven. What would your
feeling be in changing that recharge area and putting a flag lot
back there?
Mr. Orlowski: This map changed the recharge area.
Donna Geraghty: We thought we might do something here and put
an additional lot back here. Also, something else I am a little
concerned about is this open space down here. Do you really
feel that there is a need for that much open space? I mean my
thinking is who is it benefiting, I mean the fact that I have to
put in an additional one-hundred and twenty-five feet of roads.
Do you feel it is necessary to have that much? What if we berm
it or something to that effect? I mean I'm concerned about,
let's face it these are hard times in real estate and every
additional foot of pavement makes this less and less desirable.
That is why I have to actually go back and get an additional lot.
Mr. Latham: The traffic on this road the last six months has
been terrific.
Donna Geraghty: That is true during the summer months.
Mr. Latham: No, all year because of the ferry.
PLANNING BOARD 17 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. McDonald: I understand the economics report but the
developer should be thinking about that rightly so but we have
to be sure what we plan is the best we can get within the
perimeters of the code.
Donna Geraghty: I go along with that, I mean I'm not going to
argue with that. I want a compromise here.
Mr. Orlowski: We have to take a look at it. I can't make that
comment until I see how it lays out. Right now it doesn't look
too hot.
Mr. McDonald: My initial feeling would be simply to extend the
cul-de-sac to what it takes. You might be ~hle to pull it this
way a little shorter to get in an extra lot. Howard will know
exactly, better than anybody here.
Donna Geraghty: That's not a problems, this can be brought up
to here because of its elevation. This can be moved back
slightly because we do have wetlands here so we have to be a
little cautious there as well. Anyway, at this point, I don't
want to proceed with ten, I want to go back and redraw it for
eleven so whatever the procedure is to do that, that is what I
would like to do. What would be my next step now.
Mr. McDonald: Where are we right now?
Ms. Spiro: We're moving along, we granted sketch already but
we're waiting for preliminary approval.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, why don't you redraw it and see if you
can get that extra lot then figure out where to put it.
Mr. McDonald: You'll need a yield map then.
Donna Geraghty: Do I have to redraw a yield map?
Mr. Orlowski: You definitely have to have a yeild map.
Donna Geraghty: What about if it was shown in the park and
recreation.
Mr. McDonald: Well, if the park and recreation lot was cut off,
and it corresponds to everything that would be required by code
we could simply change the heading on it.
Donna Geraghty: O.K., let me take a look at that again.
Mr. McDonald: It has to meet all the requirements in terms of
lot lines and setbacks.
Donna Geraghty: I'll check on that. Let me just say that the
people I represent had told me to say that so that's where I'm
coming from. From a marketing standpoint, I agree with you
100%. Thanks very much.
PLANNING BOARD 18 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Francis Greenberger - This minor subdivision
is for four lots on 15.581 acres located at Cutchogue.
SCTM ~1000-97-3-18.1.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I wo~ld like to offer the following
resolution.
RESOLVED to adopt the engineer's report dated July 26, 1990.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion. All those in favor?
Ayes: ~r. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CF3~NGES, SET OFF
APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWACT
Lead Agency Coordination:
Mr. Orlowski: Bayberry Estates - SCTM ~ 1000-55-6-35 &
36, 56-1-1.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The board assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham~
Mr. Ortowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 19 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: James and David Cross - SCTM 9
1000-108-3-12.1.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The board assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
****************************************
Mr. Orlowski: Harry G. & Janet Hohn - SCTM #
1000-118-6-1 & 3.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, we would like to delete this.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.
Mr. Orlowski: A. P. Sepenoski~ Jr. - SCTM ~
1000-31-15.2.
Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following motion.
RESOLVED thatthe Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The board assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity m~kes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Determinations:
PLANNING BOARD 20 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Summit Estates - This major subdivision is
for thirty-five lots on 40.8223 acres located on the southwest
corner of Main Road (N.Y.S. Rte. 25) and Shipyard Lane in East
Marion.
SCTM % 1000-35-8-5.3.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State .Environmental Quality Review Act, make a
determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr.McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Dennis K. Corby - This major subdivision is
for 8 lots on 29.11 acres located on the northeast corner of
Middle Road and Depot Lane in Cutchogue.
SCTM % 1000-96-1-1.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
Under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a
determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Gregory Simonelli - This minor subdivision
is for three lots on 3.8514 acres located on the south side of
Grand Avenue; approximately 150 feet west of Greton Court in
Mattituck.
SCTM % 1000-107-2-4.
PLANNING BOARD 21 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Boardr acting
under the State Environmental quality Review Act, make a
determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second,
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Anyquestions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Laths]u, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: George T. Conway - This proposal to set off
a 2.165 acre parcel from an existing 8.582 acre parcel located
on Hortons Lane in Southold.
SCTM ~1000-63-1-1.5.
Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a
determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Final Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Peconic Bay Vineyards - This site plan is for
a winery to be located in an existing building in Cutchogue.
SCTM %1000-103-1-19.2.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
WHEREAS, Herman Blum is the owner of the property known
and designated as Peconic Bay Vineyards SCTM %
1000-103-1-18.2, located at 31280 Main Road, Cutchoque; and
PLANNING BOARD 22 AUGUST 13, 1990
WHEREAS, a fozmal application for the approval of this site
plan ws submitted on October i1, 1989; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
January 19, 1990; and
WHEREAS, a Special Exception was granted by the Zoning
Board of Appeals on February 15, 1990; and
WHEREAS, this site plan was certified by Victor Lessard,
Principal Building Inspector on April 16, 1990; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Site plan Regulation
of the Town of Southold have been met; and
be it therefore,
RESOLVED, THAT THE Southold Town Planning Board approve and
authorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey dated May 10,
1990, subject to a one year review from date of building permit.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
CHANGE OF ZONE APPLICATIONS
Mr. Orlowski: Change of Zone Petition for Russell Mann from
AC toHD
Mr. Cuddy: Mr. Chairman, I am the attorney for Mr. & Mrs.
Mann who own property on the north side of theMain Road between
the Main Road and the Long Island Railroad tracks. This
property consists of ten acres, eight acres of which is the
subject of this application. I will hand out some maps if I
may. Mr. Mann's prOPerty is presently zoned AC. His property
perhaps is unique in the Town as the front part of this parcel
which is a two acre piece has three separate zones. It has the
RO district, the R-40 district and the AC district. I point
that out to you because I think this property should seriously
be looked at by the board and I would suspect that the board
itself, (inaudible) might consider some sort of rezoning for
this parcel~ This parcel that he has before the board tonight
is eight acres and is surrounded with an affordable housing unit
on the west and it has R-40 on the east and has the railroad and
· PLANNING BOARD 23 AUGUST 13, 1990
a small 200 foot parcel of AC to the north. It seems to me that
by designating that parcel to the west affordable housing
leaving that acreage on the west, to then place his parcel as it
is now (inaudible). I propose to the board that as planners, I
think it is appropriate that you pick this parcel and do
something with it whether you disagree with HD, and I will get
to that in a second, or you find that there should be another
zone in here is perhaps not so significant as saying that this
piece certainly should not be in two acre zoning. I don't have
with me now, but I don't think you will disagree with me that
his parcel cannot sell as a two acre parcel. It is just
impossible. You can't have affordable housing on one side and
have one acre housing on the other and then expect him to sell
two acre lots. That just doesn't work. I said I would get to
the HD, I was a little surprised and I think I wrot~ the board
a letter, perhaps ali of it was to state a procedure. To ~et a
notice from the board saying that this was going to be rejected
for two reasons. One, because traffic, assuming there was a
traffic problem and two, because there was no need for a HD
designation. I would point out that traffic wise that the
affordable housi~ unit right next door to this property has one
egress and ingreSS point on the Main Road which isprobably a
little less than i00 feet wide. Mr. M~n's propert~goes out of
Griswold Street tO Tucker Lane goes out over Glover Street
to Tucker Lane and you can go north and south and I really think
that there is no traffic problem, certainly not akin to the
affordable housing and I would also like to point olut to you
that in:the cOde there is no requirement for a need for HD.
~D is a district which is well within a half a mile of the
hamlet itself. It's the same designation initially as
affordable housing. If affordable housing fits in then the
HD designation for this parcel will fit in and I believe that
all tho',code is doing is giving the board an opportunity to
create some transitional type zoning. In this spot you need
some t!rp~ of transitional type zoning. Whether you extend your
R-40 and leave it one acre or if you make it the HD, a half
acre, which Us I think what is appropriate onlybecauseyou
already made affordable housing right next door. Something has
to be done to thus parcel and I'm quite serious when I say to
you if I had that-kind of (inaudible) I would expect the board
and it's studying of zoning of this town for a period of time to
do s0m~thing to this parcel. I would like.to enter into this
course probably With the Planning staff, with the b~ard to
discuss at some length what can be done with this parcel or what
can be done for this parcel. I truly believe that what Mr. Mann
has probably is a problem that has to be addressed by the
Planning staff, by the Planning Board and O.K.'d by the County.
Mr. Orlowski: What you are saying to us is that instead of
going for the Hamlet Density you might be willing to take
something else, you would like us to review this right now.
Mr. Cuddy: I don't know if Mr. Mann is saying that bu~ I'm
saying I think that under some circumstance there could be an
PLANNING BOARD 24 AUGUST 13, 1990
R-40 on this parcel, yes, only because it makes some sense to
extend the zone.
Mr. Orlowski: Am I to understand that you are asking us to
review this a little further before we make a recommendation to
the Town Board? We will re-review it.
SETTING OF NEXT PLANNING BOARD MEETING
Mr. Orlowski: Board to set Monday, September 10, 1990 at 7:30
p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time
and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Does anybody have any other questions or
comments forthe board?
Mr. Raynor:
date on Club in New Suffolk.
board's letter of JUl 30th. We are ]
Bob on supply and
County. We have a
the 28~h of this month in regard to sept~
exploring Seve~alalternatives to water supply
I want to basicatlybring the board up to
the
with
for the
~ meeting on
still
t~e site.
With regard torevisions on the site plan req~estedby Planning
staff w~ have incorporated those revisions
turf ~' the-size of the tanks and we're revising
and the grading pla~s toreflect those
reque~ of the board. The board notes on 30th
the certificate ~o demolish the'] ~ed
and we received n° notification fr°m the Building to
that effect. Also, the future size and location of the pr~osed
restaurant suggests the existing structure will be demolished
and that is not so. There will be a renovation and expansion of
this project. The board will note in my letter of the 9th why
it was incorporated on there and the revised site plans that are
in your office also reflect the renovation. As a result of a
redesignation for the boat storage structures to the proposal
of being primary use in the zone district. Thesetbacks would
be required and those would be adhered to thus eliminating the
question to reside to variances on those two buildings. The
question with regard to the building permits on both the storage
-PLANNING BOARD 25 AUGUST 13, 1990
and repairs again redundant but it is in there and again I've
received no notification. The proposed lighting system, there
has been a question with regard to the street lamp which is
situated at the intersection of Main Street and First Street on
the southeast corner. Originally we had it at an elevation of
twenty feet, we requested by the board eighteen feet, we revised
the plan to eighteen feet and you now request that you revise
and make it twelve feet so we will make it twelve feet. As to
the question concerning the parking and the facilities
concerning the boat
storage building, very simply there will be none as so stated on
the plan instead of storage. It does not require any under the
code, nor do we anticipate traffic in and out of a sealed
building during the winter. This pretty much alienates what is
transpired and if there are any other additional elements that
should be addressed I would very much like the board's input
tonight because we are trying to finalize this and coordinate
this with both Federal, State and County. I hope this brings
everybody up to speed a little bit as to where we are.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., does the board have any questions for Mr.
Rayner while he is here?
Board: No questions.
Mr. David Cro~ s: In_ reference to James E. Cross ~a/%d David Cross
subdivision ~stion of the right-of-way a~dconstruction
~rom what presently exists. Does anyone
there have maps of thiS? That's o.K., I'm going Co bring this
one up. BasiCal] existing now is wi~inl!'the fiftyfoot
lane on the Wagon Wheel Lane as!it exists now
pas~ing by one property and going down into aminor
~ubdiviSion~ Atpres~nt the right-of-way for ~ TUthill,
which is the furtherest lot, passes through .apr( ~iece of
land which was pieced off by James Cross. The ~
would be set aside to allow access to his future
properties on aset piece. In the drawing which
wasmade the town is a incorporated
in a Fight-of-way of actual rc passing down into a
cul~ . A suggestion was made two ways for this minor
~hdivision to go through either to have the road surveyed by a
surveyor butmy sugqestion was knowing the property and knoWing
the woods area since there is a farm near by we have chain saws,
we have bucket loaders, we have all the equipment. We could
build the road ourselves. Looking at the property this Sunday,
I did' some taping off and there is a lot, fifty or more, of
very, very large trees in which if they were perfectly straight
drawn on our plan a road was built a lot of these would be
lost. If it could be gently meandered through the woods a lot
of this cutting could be avoided and create a very nice driveway
which incorporates twenty foot or better access to both lots.
PLANNING BOARD 26 AUGUST 13, 1990
The next part of that would be the question of the actual
purpose of the cul-de-sac. On a standard type of subdivision
where cul-de-sacs are built at the end of the street or
something a cul-de-sac serves to garbage trucks, fire trucks,
and access to homes. In a realistic situation where A1
Tuthill had his own turnaround cul-de-sac, the cul-de-sac
would be built for a turnaround on the propertywhich was to be
subdivided and a piece of road could be accessed to the
landlocked piece. The question is basically on the reality of
the cul-de-sac. To make a cul-de-sac work, you would have to
truly cut a fifty foot radius on a twenty foot width road and
that would leave a hundred foot diameter in the woods. In
reality, I feel that this type of cul-de-sac would really serve
no purpose if there was
fire or garbage or deliveries, they would be going to each
individual house an~ay. Here's an idea of the woods, here's
coming into the Main Road, the yellow is existing roads. This
is the temporary right-of-way for Ralph Tuthill, it passes
along the edge of the woods and into this area. There is part
of a farm and the pasture here and then the woods begins to come
in. Very gently meandering through the woods we could access
the backside of Ralph Tuthill and this property. The
cul-de-sac itself, making it a twenty foot cut in a circle,
we're looking at thirty or forty trees that I can't even wrap my
arms around and we would be losing with a straight road a~d a
full cul-de-sac, you could blow a full hole in the woods here
and trying to cut straight in would lose too many big trees.
All that I am suggesting is to have staked out and created by
the owners of this property myself a road which exceeds twenty
feet wide, meanders gently through the woods accessing Ralph's
property, a turn accessing this property and leave the access to
the subdivision which we are actually trying to do here on this
existing road. The soil is good and it is fairly flat, we just
don't see any major problems with it.
Mr. Orlowski: What will this be right here?
Mr. Cross: That is a left over piece of land of J. Cross which
in the future is suppose to go to whoever purchases the nursery.
That would be the future use. This road actually here connects
next to the nursery. Art Tuthill is the foreman for the
nurseryand this is James Cross, he lives here from the nursery,
this in the future would probably go which is planned set aside
for whoever would purchase the nursery if they chose to pull the
house out.
Unknown: How many people live on that lane?
Mr. Cross: Biginski's live up here on the Main Road. Rod
Kaelin has his house as well as this piece, his wife's maiden
name is actually Big±nski they got it from her parent's . He
lives kere and this is entirely his lot. Then there would be
myself in the future, Ralph at the end and one here. So in
total of land existing now for two acres there would be one,
'- ~' PLANNING BOARD 27 AUGUST 13, 1990
two, three, four as a total, four total. No one else on this
side accesses it, there is another right-of-way further over
which borders those lots.
Mr. McDonald: Do you know how big the lot is ?
Mr. Cross: On this end?
Mr. McDonald: The other lot that is serviced by Wagon Wheel
Lane?
Mr. Cross: It cuts off about, physically about here because is
Biginski is the front. That is the parent's. There is a
house here on the corner where it used to be Best Buy Fuel who
is
trying to have an office. They have a little house here and you
have Biginski here with their front lawn and then it goes up
the hill and this is all woods and this is Kaelin right on the
top of the hill and then he has a piece of woods going out in
the back and that borders it.
Mr. McDonald: I was just concerned that in the future it might
be a larger number of lots on this road, but if they are 760
feet they might get a lot in it and that is the one that has the
frontage on the Main Road.
Mr. Orlowski: Do you plan on building that road yourself to
town specs?
Mr. Cross: Well, it is not for myself, I mean he has got a crew
over here. I am just saying that we built a lot of these roads
through here and if it was drawn and cut in it would be just a
very ugly type of situation. I taped and I walked through and
it could be a really beautiful driveway and exceed twenty feet
with an overhead clearance and basically what I am proposing is
to allow us to build a road for this subdivision, have your
people come in and inspect it and make sure theyare quite happy
with it. If not, if they want changes, if they want fill, they
want grade or whatever, we have to do.
Mr. McDonald: Are you going to meander?
Mr. Cross: It is not much of a meander but it just can't be
straight.
Mr. Orlowski: Within the right-of-way?
Mr. Cross: Oh, very much easily. It just can't be straight.
Mr. McDonald: You just have to meet the spec. We haven't
specified how much of the cul-de-sac has to be created.
Mr. Orlowski: We'll take a look at it.
PLANNING BOARD 28 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Cross: The existing road now is gravel.
that all the way down. This is just dirt.
you can wash out as gravel.
We wish to extend
This on the hillside
Mr. McDonald: You have to meet the town spec.
Mr. Cross: I understand that. We are looking for backfill
packed bluestone.
Mr. Orlowski: You can pick up a copy of the specs.
Mr. McDonald: I guess what we would recommend a reduction in
the spec.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, let's take a look at it, I don't think
there is any problem with what he wants to do in here as far as
meandering. His biggest problem is cutting the cul-de-sac.
Maybe we can do it with a turnaround. Let us take a look at it.
Mr. Cross: O.K..
Mr. Orlowski: (Cliffside)- Mr. Tedaldi did you want to
talk to the board?
Mr. Tedaldi: Good evening, I'm back here again tonight on the
same project. I am the attorney for the applicant. I was at
the site within the last hour. I don't know if any of you
members have been there recently but I think we are in a
position now that if we go in and try to comply with~ what you
want it will be more of a disturbance in the area and do more
damage then good because the area has completely regenerated
itself and revegetated itself. The vegetation is anywhere from
four to five feet high in my estimate, looking at a little while
ago. If we go in and put in all the plants you want we are just
going to go in there and rip out what is already there. To
comply with what you want we're going to violate what you want.
Let me emphasize again, when this was done what was done to it
was not clear. You look at the upland area where we are going
to do the construction and that was clear but in the area in
question the growth was cut back and the ground itself was not
disturbed and it keeps growing back in. You can't see the
haybales and the haybales are out there.
Mr. Orlowski: We could see them real well after they clear.
Mr. Tedaldi: You can't see them now, have you been out there?
Mr. Orlowski: Well, the problem was you did disturb it.
Mr. Tedaldi: No, No, we cut it~ What I am trying to do and
you may not agree with me is I'm trying to distinguish between
disturbing where we are going to construct we removed everything
PLANNING BOARD 29 AUGUST 13, 1990
compared to that where we cut it back because if you look at it
today, you are going to see the area in question is totally
regrown, the area where we are going to construct there maybe
some regrowth.
Mr. McDonald: One of the letters you sent to us maintain that
you have the right to go in there and clear what ever you would
like for maintenance purposes. That you could clear whatever
you want, do you still maintain that? I can't say that the
letter came from you but in one of the letters in reference to
this matter.
Mr. Tedaldi: You'll have to show me the letter.
Mr. McDonald: Let me ask you, do you maintain that now ? Do
yon feel you have any right to go over the 100 foot set-back
line to clear whatever you please? In the future do you have
the right to go over and clear?
Mr. Tedaldi: Your approval said that we could not clear, that
is what it said. We didn't clear and we haven't cleared.
Mr. McDonald: You cut down trees that were sixty or seventy
years old.
Mr. Tedaldi: No, no. Absolutely not.
Mr. McDonald: I counted the rings. I went out and counted the
rings.
Mr. Tedaldi: You can count the rings all you want to sir.
'Those trees were cut down five years ago.
Mr. McDonald: I was there when they were there.
Mr. Tedaldi: No, I'm sorry.
Mr. McDonald: I was there when the trees were there and I was
on the site when the tree's were not there.
Mr. Tedaldi: My understanding was that the tree's were cut
down when the property was acquired five years ago.
Mr. McDonald: I don't know about your understanding, but I was
there. I saw the trees. I came back and the trees were gone. I
did the borings on your site, at the time I did the borings, the
trees were there.
Mr. Tedaldi: When was that?
Mr. McDonald: When they first starting the clearing.
Mr. Tedaldi: This year?
PLANNING BOARD 30 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. McDonald: Yes, when the bulldozers first came on site there.
Mr. Tedaldi: George Wetmore had that cleared five or six
years ago. I could give you the name of the person who cleared
that whole complete land.
Mr. McDonald: I wouldn't deny any of that. I am telling you
exactly what I saw. When I went there, the cutting was fresh,
the tree was fresh cut and the sawdust was there next to the
stump.
Mr. Tedaldi: I said to you the last time I was here what I
did say to you is, we cut down the regeneration on the trees.
We did not cut the actual trees down. They were cut down a long
time ago.
Mr. McDonald: These were fresh cut stumps. I took a real close
look, I took a hard look because I wanted to be sure what I was
seeing and that is what I saw. I saw a stump like this, with a
pile of sawdust ~ext to it and a fresh cut on the entire stump.
Mr. Tedaldi: You are saying that you saw the tree's were cut?
Mr. McDonald: That is right, I saw the tree's before they were
cut.
Mr. Tedaldi: You saw stumps that were five to six years old
which they just cut back that is all you saw. There were no
trees in that area more than six feet high.
Mr. McDonald: That's not what I saw.
Mr. Tedaldi: You saw a stump.
Unknown: Then there is a difference because I was there last
s~,,.er, I was there last summer and there were no trees in the
area you are talking about along the property line. No question
about it.
Mr. Tedaldi: You saw a stump which they happen to cut back
because there was growth coming out of it, that is what you
saw. You did not see any tree that was sixty feet high that is
totally ridiculous.
Mr. McDonald: No, I didn't say they were sixty feet high.
Mr. Tedaldi: I acknowledge what was there and I'm telling you
that what was cut back was a regeneration of the stumps that
Were cut years ago. Other than that the other vegetation was
cut back, it was not removed, the bulldozer did not go into the
100 foot area, nothing like that was done. Have you been there
recently?
Mr. McDonald: I haven't been there in three or four weeks.
PLANNING BOARD 31 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Tedaldi: Now you can't get into the area. I wouldn't
walk through it tonight, I would be afraid that you just
couldn't get through with all the growth that is there.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, let's get back to the site plan and your
landscape plan. Now, you are agreeing to plant all of that?
Mr. Tedaldi: If you are going to force us to plant all that,
we said we will plant it. My point to you is that if we do that
we are going to go in and we are going to rip up vegetation that
is there right now and we are going to cause more damage to that
area by putting in what you want then leaving it the way it is
and whatever we put in is going to be killed by the wild
vegetation that is there so come next year you won't have any of
that. I'm just asking you to go out and look at it, I looked at
it an hour ago.
Mr. Orlowski: We were there three weeks ago.
Mr. Tedaldi: And.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, what I am asking you is are you going to
plant to the landscape plan or you're not going to plant it.
Mr. Tedaldi: We're asking not to because of what I just said.
Mr. Orlowski: At all, ever?
Mr. Tedaldi: We're asking you not to because there is no need
to because what is there is regenerated itself. That is what
I'm saying. The vegetation is there . The purpose of putting
in what you want is for the purpose of having vegetation in the
area and it is there.
Mr. Orlowski: How ~hout the trees?
Mr. Tedaldi: You want us to put trees in, we'll put the trees
in. Again, we have to go into the area and clear the area and
put it in.
Mr. Latham: I would like to go look at it. I think we want
the trees in.
Mr. Orlowski: YOU are agreeable to plant the trees?
Mr. Tedaldi: Yes, I don't think we can put those in until
September or October or else they will die.
Mr. Latham: We didn't know about this last month or so. None
of us knew about that.
Mr. Orlowski: This board will go out and look again.
'~ PLASFNING BOARD 32 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Tedaldi: We would appreciate it. You will see the
distinction between the two areas.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.
Mr. Tedaldi: Will you be in touch with us?
Mr. Orlowski: We will be in touch with you.
Mr. Tedaldi: O.K., thank you very much.
Fir. McDonald: I'll entertain a motion that we adjourn for
executive session.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, F~. Orlowski.
Fir. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. John Wickham - I talked with Melissa and Valerie about the
possibility of putting a right-of-way down there which they want
us to do but they won't pay for a right-of-way and I said that
doesn't make sense because when you divide this area where they
already own the development rights and this, or they ought to
have the whole plot. What we are planning on doing now is
holding twenty-five feet for a right-of-Way just inside the dike
and this will give us an opportunity to repair the dike if we
have to. Again, as I said there is 1900 feet there and there is
2000 feet of dike.
Mr. Orlowski: Do you want to save this all as one piece?
Mr. Wickham: Yes.
Mr. Orlowski: It is not a buildable piece of land though.
Mr. Wickham: Oh sure it is. This is all upland and the dike is
all upland, this right here is two acres. ~here is something
like one and three quarter acres of wetland andl I just want you
to know what I am planning and make sure that you see no real
problem. My own thinking is that this won't ewer be developed
for at least fifty or sixty years, but since~they won't pay for
the development rights, they won't buy the development rights on
wetlands, shore front and in phase I they didn't buy, they only
bought this far and we still own all of the wetlands down here.
We own thirty acres.
· PLANNING BOARD 33 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Wickham:
down here.
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Latham:
Mr. Wickham:
Is this at the first bend down here?
It is the second curve, own farm road comes right
This is the one that comes out here right?
This is the dike right here?
Yes, and we will keep twenty-five feet from here
to here, we will keep twenty-five feet inside the dike. .This is
good high land here.
Mr. McDonald: How is it going to be accessed in the future? If
it ever got built on in the future you would come in this way?
Mr. Wickham: Yes.
Mr. McDonald: These are sold though right?
Mr. Wickham: Those are sold. You see we own all of this all
the way up around the creek.
Mr. McDonald: This creates a real problem if you try to develop
here in the future.
Mr. Orlowski: This is the inlet over here.
Mr. McDonald: I thought you just said the development rights on
this piece are sold.
Mr. Orlowski: How would-you access this?
Mr. Wickham: This twenty-five foot right-of-way. We're going
to own a twenty-five foot strip if this was ever developed then
there is probably no reason for having the dike, then we can
level the dike and have fifty feet.
Mr. Orlowski: You can't level the dike.
Mr. McDonald: How would you level the dike?
Mr. Wickham: Just get a bulldozer and level it.
Mr. McDonald: You are in so many feet of the wetlands, how
would you go ahead and level the dike.
Mr. Wickham: We wouldn't put it out on the wetlands.
Mr. Orlowski: The only thing that is savingyou now is that
it is diked.
Mr. Wickham: Well, I know that.
PLANNING BOARD 34 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: We look at it as diked property and anything in
back of it is upland. If you take that dike down,
Mr. Wickham: Well, we wouldn't take it all the way down but you
have got to remember that a lot of this is twenty foot contour.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, but still you are in within seventy five
foot of the wetland.
Mr. Wickham: What I am saying is that here isa twenty-five
foot access that we own and it is not a right-a-way, it is
twenty-five feet of access that we own. I can tell you what is
going to happen, in my own opinion, and that is before
seventy-five years are up and before we want to develop that
somebody is going to say, we ought to dredge Wickham's creek
channel, it is dredged up to here you see and it ought to be
dredged all the way up. But that seventy-five years away and
that is far beyond my time.
Mr. Latham: What is this along here?
Mr. Wickham: This is all wetlands, right here I actually
dredged a slip to keep my boat because at that time I had a
thirty-five foot so I dredged a slip right in there. What I
want to do and I want you to all know that I am trying to be
reasonable.
Mr. Orlowski: What are you asking for?
Mr. Wickham: I'm not asking for anything. I'm just asking for
an opinion, does this make sense?
Fir. Orlowski: Well, as far as selling the development rights
and cutting this out, yes it does but you just have to realize
later on that we probably won't be sitting here in seventy five
years, I don't think. Well, Mr. Lathammight be.
Mr. Wickham: I want somebody to be able to say, we came before
the Planning Board on this date and they thought it made sense.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, I know how the County works too and they
want that cut out, they don't care what but they Will come in
and just buy the development rights on this, leaving ydu that.
You can do it without a subdivision or with a subdivision.
Mr. Latham: Down in Orient, Eddie Latham had a similar
situation. He soldsome years ago to the County~Farmland
Development and he kept this down here and now he is going to do
something out there that wasn't as good as this and now the
State took all this. The DEC.
Mr. Wickham: Well, I think you know we're offering to the Town
of Southold for open space this ~hirty acres, plus. One
thousand feet of Peconic Bay beach plus 1200 feet on this canal
PLANNING BOARD 35 AUGUST 13, 1990
but the only thing is is that they are arguing about the
appraisal. That is another case which I don't particularly want
to discuss right now but they say it is not buildable land and
I say hog wash.
Mr. Orlowski: We don't have a problem with this.
Mr. McDonald: You see without going through the process you
can't do anything to it.
Mr. Wickham: O.K., but I just want you to know and as I said
before I am not trying to pull any fast one's on anybody and
we'll do much better business if you know what I am talking
about.
(Planning Board went into executive session with representatives
of San Simeon and Matt Kiernan).
Bill Price - Said something about Section I.
Mr. McDonald: I am not an attorney so I don't know if there are
any other implications, if there are no other implications
fine. Do it.
Mr. Matt Kiernan: The endorsement of the condominium
designation number units in no way indicates tacit approval of
any part or all of it San simeon development by the Planning
Board.
Mr. McDonald: The only other problem we have is that we
continue to have a disagreement about what we call Section I.
Mr. Price: Section I is the unit designation map that we have
submitted and that is what I referred to in my settlement
conversation with Matt. That is what we need.
Mr. McDonald: I understand, but all of our previous paper work
on Section I refers to something else and all of our resolution
says it continues to muddy the water about what Section I is and
is not. Can we simply refer to it as a map submitted for such
purposes as designation of a condominium.
Mr. Price: Well, I appreciate it if it says Section I because
what we are going to do is we're going to have four separate
condominium corporations that are going to be umbr~llaedby a
large condominium Section I and Section II. Instead of muddying
the waters if you then define Section I as shown on this map,
that's fine. If you want to think about it~ that is fine too.
Mr. McDonald: I don't know, we've got two Section I's. Some
resolutions refer to one Section I and some resolutions refer to
another Section I, I just don't know what that does.
. .~ PLANNING BOARD 36 AUGUST 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: We can do it with a special meeting by sometime
next week.
Mr. Price: That is fine.
Mr. Orlowski: I' 11 entertain a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Being there was no further business to be brought before the
board the meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Jane Rousseau,
RECEIVED AND FII. D BY I
THE SOUTHOLD TOm CI.k~K
Town Clerk, Town of Southold