HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-02/13/1990Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southotd, New York
11971
SCOTT L, HARRIS
Supervisor
Fax (516) 765-1823
Telephone (516) 765-1800
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLA~ING BOARD
MINUTES
FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Present were:
Bennett Orlowski Jr., Chairman
Richie G. Latham, Member
Richard Ward, Member
Mark McDonald, Member
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Holly Perrone, Secretary
Absent:
Kenneth Edwards, Member
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Subdivisions - Final:
Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would like to call this meeting
to order. First order of business at 7:30 p.m. Catherine
LindseY Hinterliter & William Lindsey Jr.- This minor
subdivision is for two lots on 17.4350 acres located on the
south side or-.Bergen Avenue; 650 feet west of Cox Neck Road in
Mattituck. SCTM % 1000-113-7-2.1 & 2.3. We have proof of
publication in the Suffolk Times and the Long Island Traveler
Watchman. At this time everything is in order for a final
hearing. I'll ask if there are any objections to this
subdivision? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this
subdivision?
Henry Ra!rnor: I'm representing Hinterliter and Mr.
Lindsey. This board is well aware that this is a very simple
subdivision of two lots on 17 plus acres. They received sketch
approval on January 12th from this board and it has proceeded
forward. SEQRA Determination was a Negative Declaration given
PLANNING BOARD
FEBRUARY 13 , 1990
by this board on the 15th of May. With due respect we request
approval of this subdivision.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K. any other endorsements of this subdivision?
Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but
may have some information pertaining to this subdivision that
may be of interest to this board? Hearing none, any questions
from the board?
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: No further questions, I'll declare this hearing
closed.
Mr. Orlowski: 7:35 p.m. Doris Price Moeller Foster - This
minor subdivision is on 8.5 acres located at Cutchoque.
SCTM $ 1000-103-9-13. We have proof of publication in the
Suffolk Times and the Long Island Traveler Watchman. Ever!rthing
is in order at this time for a final hearing. I'll ask if there
are any objections to this s~division? Hearing none, are there
any endorsements of this sub~vision?
Rudolph Bruer: On behalf of Mrs. Foster. I believe that all
the requirements of the Town Code have been met with respect to
this subdivision. We have DEC approval, we have the covenants
and restrictions with respect to grading and further subdivision
before the County Clerk. One of them has been recorded
already. As I said I believe it meets all the requirements of
the board and we respectfully request that the application be
granted.
Mr. Orlowski: Do you have a stamped map from the Health
Department?
Mr. Bruer: I'm waiting for Mr. VanTuyl's mylars but I have
the written approval of the Health Department.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., we have yet to receive anything from
Suffolk County Planning.
Mr. Bruer: I understand.
Mr. Orlowski: You don't have any problem if we have to hold
this hearing open.
Mr. Bruer: No.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.. Any other endorsements of this
subdivision? Hearing none, any questions from the board?
Board: No questions.
PLANNING BOARD
FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski:
open.
Mr. Latham:
No further questions, I will keep this hearing
So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, M~. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: 7:40 p.m. Albert & Susan K. Strickne¥ - This
lot line change is located on Fishers Island.
SCTM ~ 1000-9-6-8.2 & 8.6. We have proof of publication in the
Long Island Traveler Watchman and the Suffolk T~mes and also the
New London paper. Everything is in order for a final hearing.
I'll ask if there are any objections to this subdivision?
Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this subdivision?
Hearing none, any questions from the board?
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: No further questions, I'll declare t_his hearing
closed. O.K. everything is in order for approval'. Thisis a
lot line change, does the board have any pleasure?
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make the motion
that the following resolution be adopted.
WHEREAS, Susan K. Stickney is the owner of the property
knownanddesignated as SCTM % 1000-9-6-8.6 and Susan K and
Albert Stickney are the owners of the propert~ known and
designated as SCTM % 1000-9-6-8.2, located at the southeast side
of Equestrian Avenue, 362 feet north of Ocean View Avenue on
Fishers Island; and
WHEREAS, this Lot Line Change is to be known as Susan K.
and Albert Stickney Lot Line Change; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
November 20, 1989; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
February 13, 1990; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and be it therefore,
~SOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
conditional final approval, and authorize the Chairman to
PLANNING BOARD
FEBRUARY 13 , 1990
endorse the final surveys dated December 8, 1989 with a note
added on February 8, 1990, subject to fulfillment oE.~he
following conditions. All conditions must be met within six
months of the date of this resolution.
1. The recording of a deed conveying Parcel 3 to
the Henry L. Ferguson Museum and the filing by
the Museum of a Declaration prohibiting development.
2. The filing of the deed pertaining to the merger
of Lots 1 and 2. A copy of the filed deed must
be submitted to the Planning Board office.
(6)
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. 0rlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: 7:45 p.m. Lorraine Terry - This minor
subdivision is on 12.823 acres in Orient. SCTM
~1000-18-5-18.1. We have proof of publication in the Long
Island Traveler Watchman and the Suffolk Times. Everything is
in order at this time for a final hearing. I'll ask if there
are any endorsements of this s~hdivision?
Marie Ongioni: Representing Lorraine Terry. I urge the board
to grant approval of this subdivision. I believe that the file
is in order. It is a minor subdivision of four lots located on
the Main Road in Orient. Health Department approval has been
obtained and the covenants and restrictions were filed in
September in the County Clerk's office. Covenants and
Restrictions incorporating these County Planning Commission
reco~m~,endations have been prepared and approved by the Town
Attorney's office and I believe that all governmental
requirements have been met. I urge approval. Does the board
have any questions?
Mr. Orlowski: Not at this moment. Any other endorsements of
this subdivision? Any one against this subdivision? Any one
neither pro nor con but may have information pertaining to this
subdivision that would be of interest to the board? Hearing
none, any questions from the board?
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: Hearing no further questions, I~ll delcare this
hearing closed.
PLANNING BOARD
FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Final Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Henry Arbeeny - This major subdivision is on
7.5 acres located at Southold. SCTM ~1000-59-7-31.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution.
WHEREAS, Henry Arbeeny is the owner of the property known
and designated as SCTM ~1000-59-7-31, located at the northwest
corner of County Road 48 and Kenny's Road in Southold; and
WHEREAS, this minor subdivision, to be known as Henry
Arbeeny Minor Subdivision, is for four lots on 7.592 acres; and
W~EREAS, a variance for insufficient area of Lot four was
granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals on September 2, t989~ and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8, Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
April 29, 1987; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southotd, New York on
January 18, 1989;
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and
be it therefore~
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approval
a-nd authorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey dated
October 31, 1989.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
(Chairman endorsed 5 paper maps and 3 mytars)
Mr. Orlowski: Rita Brown - This minor subdivision is on
12.506 acres located at Mattituck. SCT~ $1000-94-3-1.3.
Mr. Latham: I would like to make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted
PLANNING BOARD
FEBRUARY 13, 1990
WheREAS, Rita Brown is the owner of the property known
and designated as SCTM ~ 1000-94-3-1.3, located at the north
side of Oregon Road, 150 feet east of the intersection with
Elijah's Lane in Mattituck; and
WHEREAS, this major subdivision, to be known as Rita
Brown Major Subdivision, is for four lots on 12.506 acres; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself lead agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
July 25, 1988; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was held on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
January 18, 1990; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and
be it therefore,
RESOLVED, that the $outhold Town Planning Board grant
conditional approval, on the map dated April 17, 1989 and the
road and drainage plan dated January 23, 1990, and authorize the
Chairman to endorse the final surveys subject to fulfillment of
the following conditions. All conditions must be met within six
(6) months of the date of this resolution.
1. A draft of the Covenants and Restrictions which
were requested at the December 12, 1989 meeting.
2. A draft of the Homeowner's Association.
Final maps (5 paper prints and 3 mylars) with all
previous requests of the Planning Board, including
a notation on the map that Covenants and Restrictions
have been filed. This notation m,~t include the Liber
and page number of the filed document.
4. Submission of a Letter of Credit, or its equivalent in
the amount of $90,380.00.
5. Submission of the inspection fee (6% of the approved
bond estimate) in the amount of $5,422.80.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: OpPosed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 7 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Subdivisions - Final Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: 7:50 p.m. Thompson/Dickinson - This set off
is on the southeast corner of Main Bayview and Cedar Drive in
Southold.
SCTM $1000-78-9-30.1 & 30.2. We have proof of publication in
the Long Island Traveler Watchman and also the Suffolk Times.
Everything is in order order for a final hearing. I'll ask if
there are any objections to this subdivision? Hearing none, are
there any endorsements of this subdivision?
Mr. Rudolph Bruer: On behalf of the applicant. This is a
set-off of property located in Southold and rather than take a
great deal of the board's time I'm sure that you all read the
letter in the file from myself to the board on September 21,
setting forth the history of this set-off noting that the two
buildings were constructed in 1726 and the other in the 1940's
time frame, on the property and the adjoining neighbors have
consented or expressed their approval which I think is part of
the beards file. We have been getting separate tax bills since
1977 and we request that the application to divide the property
be granted.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., I don't think the board will close this
hearinqbecause we need the revised maps and also the Suffolk
County Health Department stamp on those maps.
Mr. Bruer: The preliminary work to the Health Department is on
its way to them.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., we'll just leave it open until we get those.
Mr. Bruer: Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements of this subdivision?
Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but
may have information pertaining to this subdivision that would
be of interest to the board? Hearing none, any questions from
the board?
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: Ms. Scopaz?
Ms. Scopaz: We need the revised maps.
the revised maps?
Mr. Bruer, do you have
Mr. Bruer: Mr. Chairman, I believe you should receive a letter
from the Health Department saying it's exempt fremArticle VI
PLANNING BOARD 8 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
due to Article VI coming in in 1981 and the property as far as
the tax maps are concerned were split off as of 1977. I think
that is going to be the result of the Health Department rather
than some type of Article VI approval, I think they are going to
say it's exempt from the requirements. At least that is my hope.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., no further questions, does the board want
to close this hearing or leave it open ?
Mr. Ward: Let's leave it open until we get the Health
Department approval.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Ortowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor.
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: 7:55 p.m. Major's Terrace This minor
s~hdivision is for two lots on 13.87 acres located on the
southwest corner of King Street and Douglas Street, Orient.
SCTM $1000-26-2-42. We have proof of publication in the Suffolk
Times and the Long Island Traveler Watchman. Everything is in
order for a final hearing. I'll ask if there are any objections
to this s~_hdivision? Hearing none, are there any endorsements
of this subdivision?
Mr. Henry Ra!rnor: i'm representing Major's Terrace. This is a
two lot subdivision on 13. plus acres and we have eliminated the
ten foot right-of-way which runs parallel to the Major~s pond on
the northerly end Of this property. This was at the request of
the Southold Town Trustees for fear that there might be
additional (inaudible). These covenants and restrictions are on
file with your board and in the law office of Michael Hall.
This map has been amended to request the Suffolk County Planning
Board's recommendations on the 6th of November. We have also
created a 100 foot observation easement as requested from the
board in a resolution on the 7th of July. I would like to
request approval of this subdivision and will be happy to answer
any questions.
Mr. Orlowski: As of yet we don't have all the covenants and
restrictions with the Cour~ty.
Mr. Raynor: I can't speak for the County but I believe the
covenants and restrictions were filed with this board on the
llth of October.
PLANNING BOARD
FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: I believe you got a letter on the 19th of
January but I don't see anything else in here.
Mr. Ra!rnor: If the board does not have it I can forward a copy
to them in the morning.
Mr. Orlowski: It's not complete.
Mr. Raynor: O.K., I'll be very happy to do that.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements of this sulxlivision?
Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but
may have information pertaining to this subdivision that may be
of interest to the board? Hearing none, any questions from the
board?
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: No further questions, I'll declare this hearing
closed.
Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings:
Mr. Orlowski: James H. Bailey - This lot line change is
located on Fishers Island. SCTM %1000-12-2-6.10. The board is
still waiting for co, m~ents from the Suffolk County Planning
Commission so we will have to keep this hearing~open. I~ll ask
if anyone has any comments at this time? Hearing none, I'll
entertain a motion to keep this hearing open.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. He~¥ Appel - This major subdivision is on
15.3573 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM 1000-114-.12-14. We have the bond estimate which we have
waited foE,and is what we kept the hearing open for. The bond
estimate is in the amount of $58,750.00f with an inspection fee
in the amount of $3,525.00. I'll ask if anyone has any comments
on this subdivision? Hearing none, everything is in order to
close this hearing.
PLANNING BOARD 10 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
~r. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: I'll entertain a motion to send the bond estimate
over to the Town Board for its approval.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. ~y ~estions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Alan Cardinale: (James Creek) -'This minor
subdivision is on i5.9012 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM ~1000-122-3-1.4. We still haven't received comment from
the Suffolk County Planning Co~muission. I'll ask if anyone has
any comments regarding this sulxlivision? Hearing no comment,
I'll entertain a motion to keep this hearing open.
Mr. McDonald: I move that we keep the hearing open.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham.
Mr. OrlowSki: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: North Road Associates - This minor subdivision
is on 16.886 acres located at Orient.
SCTM 9 1000-18-4-1. We have not yet received coa.,ent from the
Suffolk County Planning Commission se we will also keep this
hearing open. I'll ask if there are any comments while the
PLANNING BOARD 11 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
hearing is open at this time? No comments, I'll entertain a
motion to keep this hearing open.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: DBM Affordable Housing- (Highpoint Meadows
Section I, II & III). This major subdivision is on 37.762
acres located at Southold. This is an affordable housing
district. We have the Suffolk County Planning Commission's
Report and I'll entertain a motion to adopt it.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: While this hearing is open, does anyone have any
comment?
Mr. William Moore: For the applicant. We have provided you
with some revised maps and also some covenants and restrictions
which I have been speaking with Melissa about. Z believe there
are some other items on those covenants and restrictions that
she would like to see in there which we can add. I think
everything is in order at this point to close this hearing and
if you would be so inclined to grant conditional final
approval. We are trying to extract from the Health Department
mylars, the C & R's have been filed for their benefit and
we're hoping that we will get them back from them sometime
shortly. If I may just make reference to a couple of things
which I think you have in your file. Subsequently to the last
board meeting and public hearing (inaudible).
Mr. Orlowski: Any other co~Luuents? Hearing none.
PLANNING BOARD 12 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Unidentified person in audience: This open land that you are
talking about, did they eliminate it in the lots? Mr. Moore,
you can answer that.
Mr. Ward: As separate park space to be dedicated as public
trust, yes we did. We created a conservation easement across
eight or ten of the lots, interior lots in Section Two, as well
as conservation easement across the rear.
Unidentified person: What does that mean?
Mr. Moore: No disturbance, those fifteen homeowners have an
area of no disturbance.
Unidentified person: That's very good. It's approximately
fifty-seven lots right?
Mr. Moore: Fifty-six.
Unidentified person: That will be fifty-seven children. Where
are they going to play, in the streets?
Mr. Orlowski: They could be senior citizens.
Unidentified person: You got that right. In the backyard, why
don't they play on Yer~ecott Drive.
Mr. Orlowski: May I have your name for the record please.
My name is Thomas Buel, I live at 95 Long Creek Drive in
Yennecott Park. I'm for the lots but I'm for someplace for the
kids to play. My kids, I had five of them.
Mr. Orlowski: This is not a question and answer thing here.
Any other comments? Hearing none, we have received the water
contract that will have to be reviewed by the Town Attorney and
everything is in order to close the hearing. I'll entertain
that motion.
Mr. Mark McDonald: I move we close the hearing.~
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any ~uestions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. O. K. What's the pleasure
of the board?
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that
the following resolution be adopted.
PLanNING BOARD 13 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
WHEREAS, Herbert R. Mandel snd Richard Israel are the
owners of the property known and designated as SCTM
91000-55-6-p/o 15.1; and
WHEREAS, this major s~%bdivision, to be known as Highpoint
Meadows Section One; Highpoint Meadows Section Two; and
Highpoint Meadows Section Three (formerly known as ~ighpoint II
at Southold, Sections Oner Two and Three or DBM Affordable
Housing Project) is for 56 lots on 37.762 acres in the
Affordable Housing Zoning District; and
WHEREAS, a Final Environmental Impact Statement was
completed and accepted by the Town Board as lead agency for the
action on April 12, 1989, and a Findings Statement was adopted
by the Town Board on April 25, 1989; and
WHEREAS, the final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
February 13, 1990; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision.
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and
be it therefore,
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
conditional final approval on the subdivision maps dated
February 5, 1990 and the Final Road and Drainage maps dated
February 5, i990, and authorize the Chairman to endorse the
final surveys subject to fulfillment of the following
conditions. All conditions must be met within six (6) months of
the date of this resolution.
1. Conformance with all requirements of the
Affordable Housing District.
2. S~bmission of final maps (5 paper prints and
2 mylars) containing the following information:
A valid stamp of approval from the
Suffolk County Department of Health
Services.
A notation that Declaration of Covenants
and Restrictions have been filed. This
notation must include the Liber and Page
numbers.
Compliance with the October 13, 1989 report
from the office of Sidney B. Bowne and Son,
which was adQpted by the Planning Board on
November 11, 1989.
3. Submission of a "sales map" designating the affordable
PLANqtING BOARD 14 FRBRUARY 13, 1990
lots.
Receipt of all covenants and restrictions, and
approval of same by the Town Attorney as to
correctness, legal form and content. The
Declaration(s) must include the following:
The covenant and restriction which was
re~ired in the Findings. Statement pertaining
to the restriction of the application of
inorganic fertilizers to reduce nitrogen
loading into the ground water.
The following terms and conditions shall
apply to that land lying within the
"Conservation Easement Area~' as included
in lots fifty through fifty-five shown on
the final subdivision map of Highpoint Meadows.
No structure or building shall be placed
within the easement area. The terms
"structure" and "building" shall be
interpreted as including swimming pools;
patios; garages' sheds and other storage
buildings, structures for the housing of
domesticated animals. The storage
of boats, trailers, recreational vehicles;
and the placement of fences, retaining Walls
and bulkheads.
The entire easement area shall remain
in its natural state.
The easement area shall not be filled
with soil, sand, brush or other
debris.
The easement area may be traversed by
a walkway, whether elevated or on the
ground, provided permits can be
obtained from the applicable agencies,
which may include the Southold Town
Board of Trustees, and the New York
State Department of Environmental
Conservation.
Any disturbance to the land within
the easement shall be redressed by
the restoration of said landto its
prior state within sixty (60) days
of the disturbance or of the date the
disturbance was reported to either the
PLANNING BOARD 15 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Planning Board or the Bay Constable.
A covenant, as per Section A106-33 (2) of the
Subdivision Regulations of the Town Code, that
the individual lots will be designated as to
accommodate all off-street parking. As per the
May i7r 1990 correspondence from the Southold
Town Board Highway C~ittee, there are to be two
parking areas, excluding the garage or carport,
in each lot to provide off-street parking.
5. Submission Of a copy of the recorded Declaration(s)
of Covenants and Restrictions.
6. Review, and approval, by the Town Attorney, of the water
contract between DBM Co. and the Village of Greenport.
e
Submission of the park and playground fee. The amount
of this cash payment in lieu of land for park and
playground purposes is to be determined by the Town
Board.
submission of a bond, Letter of Credit or equivalent
for the amount of $565,530.00, and acceptance of same
by the Town Board. This bond estimate includes
Section One, Section Two and Section Three.
9. Submission of the inspection fee of $33,931.00.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes; Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Too Bee Realty - This minor subdivision is on
37.72 acres located at Southold. SCTM ~1000-50-6-5. We kept
this open. We have received final maps locating the wetlands on
one of the lots. I believe we have those maps now. I'll ask if
there are any comments on this subdivision while this hearing is
open?
Mr. Bressler: For the applicant. Thank you Mr. Chairman. ~.
Chairman you have indicated that the maps are currently in the
board's possession. May I ask if the correspondence dated
Februazy 8, 1990, from Hampton Manor Associates is also with
those filed maps?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
PLANNING BOARD 16 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Bressler: Mr. Chairman, this final map reflects inspection
which occurred with respect to lot number four in this
subdivision.
Rather than rehash what has gone on here in the last few
meetings, I would like to point out that the letter of February
Sth that I previously refer~ed to sets forth both how this
situation was attained in the first place and what we are going
to be faced with in the future. The correspondence previously
introduced into the record before this board indicates that the
New York State Department of Environmental Conservation is
taking an active role with respect to the very serious problem
of the drop in the water level in the pond. Indeed they are
taking, what I consider to be very unusual steps of requesting
the landowners permission to go in and build the dike back up,
which we have granted. I think it is plain to everyone that
when the Department of Environmental Conservation performs the
repair of the dike, hopefully, the water level of the pond will
return to its prior level and the source of water through the
ditch which has created this wetlands, if you will, is going to
be cut off. I think the letter of February 8th, makes that
clear. We have delineated on this map the wetlands as they
currently exist. I think it is plain that these wetlands a~e
going to be very short lived pursuant to the DEC's action. They
are going to go in there and they are going to re-dike and the
trickled water is going~ to be stopped and these wetlands are
going to dry up and I think that is something that everyone is
going to have to live with because the DEC has authority in this
area. The point of all this is that we are submitting this map
to the Planning Board and we are asking that the public hearing
be closed and that the map be approved subject to the receipt of
the usual covenants. We are also asking one further thing and
that is that over the course of time, a very short period of
time if the DEC acts accordingly, these wetlands are going to
disappear and the only thing that we ask this board is that at
such time this map be redrawn and the building envelope, to
reflect that condition, tt is going to occur undoubtedlywithin
the next twelve months and that is going to be the result of the
DEC activity. We would just like to do that so the owner of lot
number four won't get shorted.
Mr. Orlowski: You are asking us to approve it subject to a
change later on?
Mr. Bressler: What we are asking is, that you approve this map
With the understanding that as a result of DEC activity these
wetlands are surely going to disappear. They are going to stop
the flow of water and they are going to restore the level of the
pond and what my clients are concerned with is that they not be
bound by the building envelope that we are putting on this
subdivision now at such time as the DEC takes its actions. We
didn't put ourselves in this situation and the DEC is now taking
action to remove us from this situation. What I'm saying is
we're going to be back in front of this board and we're going to
show you a regular building envelope.
PLANNING BOARD 17 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Ward: O.K., but you have to understand that right now the
approval is subject to that most recent map. If you decide
later to file an amendment, or come back in, that can be done
later on but it has no contingent now. There is no'basis at
this point.
Mr. Bressler: We understand now, we want you to know right now
what the DEC is planning and a year from now we will be back
here with a redrawn map.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K. any other comments on this subdivision?
Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second..
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
mQtion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: What is the pleasure of the board?
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted.
WHEREAS, Too Bee Realty Corporation is the owner of the
property known and designated as SCTM ~t000-50-6-5, located on
the southwest side of Lighthouse Road, 419 feet south of
Soundview Avenue in Southold; and
WHEREAS, this minor subdivision, to be known as Too Bee
Reality Corporation, is for four lots on 7.956 acres; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmentatquality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
May 9, 1988; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
February 13, 1990; and
WF~EREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met;
be it therefore,
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Plan~ng Board grant
conditional final approval, and authorize the Chairman to
endorse the final surveys dated February 7, 1990 subject to
PLANNING BOARD 18 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
fulfillment of the Following conditions. Ail conditions must be
met within six (6) months of the date of this resolution.
Submission of a draft Declaration of Covenants
and restrictions. Once the draft is approved by
the Planning Board and Town Attorney, a cop~
of the recorded declaration must be submitted to
the Planning Board.
Submission of final maps (5 paper prints ~nd 2 mylars)
with the following:
A. A current stamp for Health Department approval.
B. The location of the fire well.
C. The Liber and Page number of the recorded
Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions.
Submission of a Letter of Credit, or its equivalent
in the amount of $47,910.00.
Submission of the inspection fee in the amount of
$2,874.60.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.
motion? All those in favor?
Any questions on that
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald., Mr. Ward, M~. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISION, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS:
Final Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Adams Associates - This minor subdivision is on
7.6797 acres located at Mattituck. SCTM 1000-113-12-10.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that
the following resolution be adopted.
WHEREAS, Adam Associates is the owner of the property known
and designated as SCTM $1000-113-12-10, located at the north
side of County Road 48, 176.36 feet east of Cox Neck Lane in
Mattituck; and
WHEREAS, this minor subdivision, to be known as Adam
Associates Minor ~dbdivision, is for four lots on 7.6797 acres;
and
PLANNING BOARD 19 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
WHEREAS, a variance for approval of insufficient lot area
and width of lot No. 4 was granted by the Zoning Board of
Appeals on June 29, 1989; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
January 23, 1989; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town hall, Southold, New York on
January 18, 1990; and
WHEREAS, all .the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and
be it therefore,
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
conditional final approval to the map dated January 30, 1989,
and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys subject
to fulfillment of the following conditions. All conditions
must be met within six (6) months of the date of this resolution.
1. Receipt of final maps (5 paper prints and 2 mylars)
including the following infozmation:
A notation that a Declaration of Covenants
and Restrictions has been filed. This notation
must include the Liber and Page number of the
Declaration.
B. The name of the proposed road.
C. A stamp of current Suffolk County Health
Department approval.
Submission of a copy of the Declaration of Covenants
and Restrictions which has been filed with the office
of the County Clerk.
Receipt of a performance bond, Letter of Credit or
the equivalent in the amount of $38,345.00, and
acceptance of same by the Town Board.
Receipt of the inspection fee, in the amount of
$2,300.70.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
PLANNING BOARD 20 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: John Beebe - This minor subdivision is on
97,035 square feet located at Cutchoque. SCTM ~1000-103-3-5.
Mr. Latham: Fir. Chairman, I would like to make the following
resolution.
WHEREAS, John Beebe is the owner of the property known and
designated as SCTM 81000-103-3-5, located at the west side of
Beebe Drive 839.37 feet south of Antler Lane in Cutchog~e; and
WHEREAS, this minor subdivision, to be known as John Beebe
Minor Subdivision, is for two lots on 97,035 square feet; and
WHEREAS, a variance for approval of insufficient area and
width of the two proposed parcels was granted by the Zoning
Board of Appeals on October 6, 1988; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board~ pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 61.7,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
December 19, 1988; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
January 18, i990; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the town of Southold have been met; and
be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
conditional final approval on the maps dated February 16, 1989
and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys subject
to fulfillment of the following conditions. Ail conditions must
be met within six (6) months of the date of this resolution.
1. Final maps (5 paper prints and 2 mylars) including
the following:
A. A current stamp of Health Department
approval.
A notation that a Declaration of Covenants
and Restrictions has been filed, including
the Liber and page number.
Mr. McDonald: Seco. nd.
PLANNING BOARD 21 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. McDonald:
the following.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Fr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Sketch Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Jennie Harris Est. - This minor subdivision
is for two lots on the northwest side of County Road 48, 918
feet northwest of Cox's Lane in Cutchogue.
SCTM 91000-96-1-18.
Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board rescind
their resolution of denial of November 20, 1989. The Planning
Board has re-examined the decision of the Zoning Board of
Appeals and the proposed subdivision application and has decided
to proceed with the application.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any. question on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham.
Opposed? So ordered.
I would like to further recommend that we resolve
RESOLVE~ that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
sketch approval on the map dated February 27, 1989.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Fir. Orlowski: Mr. Patrick Kelly - This set off is on 9.182
acre parcel located on the north side of Main Road on a private
road known as Mill Path, approximately 800 feet east of Bay Home
Road in Southold. $CTM ~1000-56-1-3.1.
PLANNING BOARD 22 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make the following
motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated January 26, 1989.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Zsland Estates - This major subdivision is for
ten lots on 28.5073 acres located on the south side of Main
Road, 1758 feet west of Narrow River Road in Orient.
SCTM ~1000-18-6-19.
Mr. Orlowski: I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated September 19, 1989.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Sketch Extensions:
Mr. Orlowski: Baxter Sound Estates - This minor subdivision
is for two lots on 5.022 acres located on the north side of
Oregon Road, 1100 feet west of Bridge Lane at Cutchogue.
SCTM 1000-72-2-2.1 & 3.
Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a motion.
P~SOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six
month extension of sketch approval from February 14, 1990 to
August 14, 1990.
Mr. Latham: Second.
PLANNING BOARD 23 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any qUestions on the
motiOn? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ozlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Lon9 Meadow Estates - This major subdivision is
for 16 lots on 36.9639 acres located on the north side of Sound
Avenue, 937 feet west of the northwest corner of Cox Lane and
Sound Avenue and the west side of Cox Lane, ~28 feet north of
the north of the northwest corner of Cox Lane and Sound Avenue
in Mattituck.
SCTM $100-113-7-19.2.
Mr. Latham: I would like to offer the followin~ motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six
month extension of preliminary approval which will run until
jUne 12, 1990. I would also like to note that this is the last
extension that we will be granting.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion. Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: I will make a motion to set the final hearing for
Orient Park Estates at the next Planning Board Meeting on
March 5th, 1990 at 7:30 p.m..
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Bond Determinations:
PLANNING BOARD 24 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Robert A. Graeb & Phylis Graeb - This
major s~bdivision is for four lots on 10.25 acres Iocated on
the north side of County Road 48, 900 feet east of Cox's Lane.
SCTM ~1000-84-1-10.
Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED to adopt the engineer's report dated January 29,
1990.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, ~r. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: OppoSed? So ordered.
Mr. McDonald: I would like to further and make a motion that it
be:
RESOLVED to adopt the bond estimate dated January 26, 1990
and revised by the Planning Board on February 8, 1990, and to
reco~L~end same to the Town Board. The bond estimate is in the
amount of $136,200.00, with an inspection fee in the amount of
$8,172.00.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Bob Graeb: My original purpose for applying for the
subdivision is to provide affordable housing for two of m~
kids. He have, fortunately, two which are married and own their
own homes and two are not ~arried. We have no intention of
making money on this or selling any of the lots. What has
happened, the restrictions that you have placed on it we just
can't afford it. It's around $140,000 to do what you want and
we just don't have that kind of money. What I Was hoping was
that we could get, and we are willing to put covenants and
restrictions on anything you want, that in the event~that any of
these lots were sold to a non family member, they could only be
sold if everything was done to conform to what you want at that
time. Our intent was to have two building lots for our two kids
and the price of the $140,000 we just don~t have. I ~ust spent
three quarters of a million dollars up there between my house
and the green house.
PLANNING BOARD 25 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: I can sympathize with you but we there is no
relief in the code or anything like that that, we can proceed in.
doing that.
Mr. Graeb: I hear a lot of talk in town about affordable
housing, here I thought I had affordable housing but It's
unaffordable. It seems to me that maybe you could consider a
third type of subdivision called a family subdivision and there
are a lot of people, in fact you were one of them, (inaudible).
Mr. Orlowski: Well, I can agree with you but as yet there is no
family subdivision part in the code. You know if this board is
going to approve a subdivision and those covenants you know
there is just no provision in the code to allow for such an
approval. There is just no way we can do it here.
Mr. McDonald: ME. Chairman, if Mr. Graeb would be willing to
defer on this, I was wondering if I were to rescind my
resolution we could take it under advisement and open it up for
discussion in the interim between now and the next meeting?
FLr. Lath~m: Yes, we could do that.
Mr. 0rlowski: Are you willing to wait?
Mr. Graeb: Oh sure, I'm not in any hurry.
Mr. McDonald: This would hold up your process.
Mr. Graeb: That is quite alright.
Mr. McDonald: We're not ~king any pror~ises about what is going
to happen. We're just going to discuss it.
Mr. Graeb: But, the bottom line is, I just don't have
$140,000 and it just seems a shame that two of my kids have to
rent and pay so much rent when I could give them land. The
biggest thing is the road. I don't know if you are familiar
with it but my house is about 1000 feet off the dual highway and
we get back there by a dint road.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, with that in mind, I will rescind
my motion. If whoever seconded will also follow suit and move
that we hold this over to the next meeting.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.
Mr. Graeb: Thank you very much.
Mr. Ward: You need all of the lots involved though?
Mr. Graeb: Well yes. We have ten acres up there and we're
looking for four lots. Three two acre lots and one, the balance
is where the greenhouse is. We are not asking for small lo%so
PLANNING BOARD 26 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Well, we will have to bring it up before the
legislative co~,ittee which will be meeting tomorrow night but
it will probably be the next month before we can get it on the
agenda.
Mr. Graeb: Well, there is no time rush on this thing.
Mr. Latham: Let's look at it first.
Mr. Graeb: I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., we will give it a try.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion was rescinded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Henry ADpel - This major subdivision is on
15.3573 acres located at Mattituck. SCTM ~1000-1t4-12-14.
Mr. McDonald: This has already been done.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K..
Park and Playground Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Mattituck Creek Estates (formerly James
Cohill) This major subdivision is for 9 lots on 19.12~0 acres
and is located on the southwest corner of Mill Road and Grand
Avenue in Mattituck~ SCTM ~1000-107-1-2.
Mr. Ward: I would like to make the following resolution.
Be it RESOLVED that as per Section A106A-38E of the Town
Code, the subdivision entitled Mattituck Creek Estates be
referred to the Town Board for a determination of the amount of
the cash payment tobe deposited in lieu of land reservation for
park and playground purposes.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questio~s on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, ~r. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 27 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHAi~GES, SET OFF
APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMEAV~AL QUALITY R~VIEW' ACT
Lead Agency Coordination:
Mr. Orlowski: Jennie Harris Est. - SCTM $1000-96-1-18.
RESOLVED that the Southold town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The Board assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion.? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: James Patrick Kelly- SCTM $1000-56-1-3.1
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The Board assumes
lead agency status and in the capacity makes an initial
determination of no~-significance.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favoz?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Island Estates - SCTM $1000-18-6-19o
Mr. Latham: I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The Board assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
PLANNING BOARD 28 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, F~. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald°
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Margaret Gada - This minor subdivision is on
4.25 acres located on Fishers Island. SCTM ~ 1000-1~-7-2.1.
What is the pleasure of the board.
Mr. Ward: I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a
determination of non-significance, and grar~t a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Fir. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Board to set Monday, March 5, 1990 at 7:30 p.m. at
the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and
place for the next regular Planning Board Meeting.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion~ All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. ortowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Orlowski:
19~9 minutes.
Opposed? So ordered.
I'll make a motion to approve the December 18,
PLANNING BOARD 29 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
OTHER BUSINESS:
Mr. Orlowski: HarveyPollak - SCTM ~10p0-125-4-21, 125-4-24.1
and 126-7-1. This applicant would like to discuss this
application with the Planning Board.
Mr. Bill Esseks - Good Evening, this iM the property of
Harvey Poll.ak on the south side of the Main Road about 217
acres zoned Residence Agricultural. I~ would provide a yield of
about ~00 lots. The town has the inherent right under the
cluster ProVision of the town law to r~quire a cluster which
would provide a great deal of open spa~e, we propose that
within .~that open space there could be an 18 hole golf course.
From the various sections of the cluster provision of the code
and the Park and recreation portion ofI the code, I believe that
a' golf ~course is a Possible appropriat~ permitted use Under the
existin~g code. The question remains i~ to whether who could use
the g°lf course. I~m satisfied and ha~e advised the client that
within the open space area, the park or the
depending on how you define it, the 100 unit
residential subdivision cOUld be of the open space
amenity' of a golf course. I see no kon of it being used
or enjOYed by people off site under a membership club but that
is a questi.on that the board and the board's council, must be
satisfied With if we are going to proceed with this. We might
have to have a special coordinate or to
the code and the Town Board. as part of
this ~ace consideration is the of
the club. The golf club building itself t~t would be used
for the members and the pool and courts. This is all in
the concept period. We want to come here and discuss it with
you because we believe a luxury Subdzvzszon, przvate roads,
limited access, first rate golf course would be a definite plus
~nd it would be an amenity to the town. There are two others
which we understand are crowded and t_h~ population is growing
and the desire for golf courses is mushroomin~ throughout the
country and the falling real estate market, golf course
developments are one of the few areas that are soaring so with
that little bit of background I would like to see if the members
of the' board are interested in discussing with us and interested
in us pursuing this type of a plan development.
PLANNING BOARD 30 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Does the board have any questions?
Mr. McDonald: I'm sorry, but I don't know you, I wonder if
you could tell me.
Mr. Esseks: Bill Esseks.
Mr. McDonald: no you foresee asking for a change of zone in any
of this property?
Mr. Esseks: The area where that comes up is two parts. The
off-site use. I believe in the existing code we don't have to
limit the use to residence. Off site residence, I'm not
positive. It certainly is something to discuss. A bigger
question is the erection of the club house itself. I find it
more difficult to rationalize that without some sort of zoning
relief from the Town Board.
Mr. Orlowski: You're talking a restaurant?
Mr. Esseks: That would certainly be an appropriate amunity to
a golf course. You don't have to have it but if you want to make
it more successful, that's one of the ways to do it. You know
that Southampton on the old Gillespie Farm, the Town of
Southampton I believe approved the golf course and the County
Planning Con~uission has endorsed it, Health Department has.
can be designed in such a way that you might want to peruse the
super compliance on file with the County HeatthDepartment,
County Planning Commission and the Town of Southampton to see
how the impacts are very minimized. Actually there are fewer
impacts from a golf course than from farm use. ~d so from the
Health point of view it is an appropriate use. It is more
appropriate than having houses scattered and it's more
appropriate than having the open space for use for farming as
far as the Health DeDartment is concerned. So in answer to your
question in order to have the clubhouse I think there would have
to be some sort of relief from the town board.
Mr. Orlowski: When you talk about impacts being less than
~gr~cUlture youmean you're not going to fertilize or spray or
irrigate this golf course?
Mr. Esseks: I don't want to get into a war but i~ you read
the impact statement and you read the comments from the Health
Department and the County Planning Co~£~nission, an~ I believe the
Town Planning Board and look at the reports from the consultants
that the town has hired, I think you will see that there has
been a finding that it's more appropriate.
Mr. Ward: We're going to get Cornell to change over to looking
into golf courses instead of potatoe farms Benny.
PLANNING BOARD 3t FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to say that Atlantic
is one of the most heavily studied pieces of property probably
in the history of the Town of Southampton and they have done
extensive work on that and according to what they have done and
the latest studies the golf is a viable use and has a lower
nitrogen loading rate than many agricultural uses, but one of
the things that you have to keep i~ mind with Atlantic is that
it is golf course only. It is not combined residential and golf
course but none the less it is a really great plar~ and it has
been worked on very hard and we would be well advised to take a
very hard look at what they have done there.
Mr. Esseks: If the board in interested, I would be willing to
make some copies and have them developed just in the interest of
justice.
Mr. Orlowski: I know there are ways to lessen the impact with
different types of fertilizer and different irrigation
practices, different types of grass and I know you might want to
look into something like that.
Mr. ESseks: Mr. McDonald, I guess it is possible but I didn't
realize that you were a member of this board when I came in here
tonight but isn't it possible to have a mix of houses and a golf
course and probably maintain the same type of positive attitude
Mr. McDonald: I not going to, at this point, that is a matter
for a lot of calculations and a lot of thought but I would not
rule out the possibility of a mixed u~e by any means. That is
why we are here listening to you tonight because we are not
ruling anything out.
Mr. Esseks: I think this is a logical, I would expect that it
would be appropriate to have a water main extension or some
type of non on site water supply for two purposes, the housing
and for irrigation.
Mr. McDonald: Do you have a anticipated method of ownership yet
for the golf course?
Mr. Esseks: No.
Mr. McDonald: Tootentative?
Mr. Esseks: I've discussed several things with the owner and
for my own purposes~ I would want to put it in the form of a
condominium. I~ think it lays out better that way. You can have
a smaller envelope for each house and it is easier to transfer
interest and easier I think to maintain control over the
development of the golf course itself but I'm not s~re that it
would fit in necessarily with the cIient's economics and the
client's tax plan. I certai~lywould want to discuss is a
homeowners association form of ownership. You could separate
the golf course facility into one form of ownership and have the
PLA/qlqINGBOARD 32 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
house lots in another. It partly depends on what the Health
Department and County Planning Commission and the Town wants.
Mr. McDonald: Many of these studies in the past and there has
been a flurry of these lately in the county. Flurry, is not the
right word, but more than there has been in a long time, a-nd
many of them come up with the idea that they need a minimum
number of members to make the whole thing work and the number
seems to have been running around two hundred and fifty. Do you
foresee the same numbers?
Mr. Esseks: I see that two to two- fifty is the number talked
about for Atlantic Golf but that is a rather special situation.
Mr. McDonald: Well, it's been used in other areas as well but
it only a rough ---.
Mr. Esseks: Here it's probably nearer to three.
Mr. McDonald: Roughly the same ball park though and I
understand this is very tentative.
Mr. Esseks: You may remember or you may have noticed
something that is very unusual and I think it supports this
whole concept. The County Planning Commission has a conditional
approval for Atlantic Golf put in these right of first refusal,
Which is certainly in my experience, an extraordinarily unusual
condition, and what I think it reflects is, that the County has
a great interest in the development and maintenance of golf
courses. I'm sort of pleased that that condition was put there
with the purpose of showing interest. I'm displeased on this
because I think it is in an appropriate condition. Certainly
the county would not have put it there if they didn't think that
the maintenance of the golE course and their establishment isn't
very important.
Mr. Ward: Getting back to what you were saying about in terms
of the lot size or condominium ownership, without the present
zoning in effect right now in the town if we could just say it
wasn't there and you could create what you wanted what would be
the ideal from the developers point of view?
Mr. Esseks: If I say what I want, it may not be what
client wants.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, lets cut that in half and go from there.
How is that?
Mr. Esseks: (Inaudible) tt is a logical marketing tool and a
tool for protection of the uses, it is a way of haVing control
by the municipalities and a guarantee of what's going to happen
i~ the future. Itts an easy way of control. And more typical
development here would be to take the golf course and put it
into a not for profit membership corporation. Put the lots into
PLANNING BOARD 33 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
a different ownership and sell the lots and give lots a
different membership, a right to membership in the golf course
but not an obligation.
Mr. Ward: So it is kind of difficult the way wetre set up right
now because it is a homeowners association or the town could own
it or ---.
Mr. Esseks: One of the alternatives, is not that the town own
it. I'm sure that that's not something that we're talking
about.
Mr. Orlowski: Good.
Mr. McDonald: Would you foresee any public use in this at any
time? Any periods as a potential, I'm not saying definitely,
but has any potential for a wider p~,blic use on specific times
or for specific purposes?
Mr. Esseks: That's a bothersome, interesting question and I
Will try to answer it as intelligent as I can. It has been
presented to me on more than one occasion in the last few months
and the wayI am trying to respond to it is seeing that it could
be a force in the SEQRA process as a mitigating matter. Now you
have to take into account the adverse and passible environmental
impacts of this intense use that it puts the parcel to
(inaudible). It is not necessarily a passive use. So one way
to look at it is by allowing the client frequent use in the
development of the property what does the public get for it. So
some people have argued and litigated the pressure in whether
the municipality in allowing this can extract from the
developers public use. I don't think you can, but of co'~se if
the developer wants to offer that, it is there. So it the
balancing, how much public use does the developer offer in
exchange for the approval of the municipality.
Mr. McDonald: t wasn't trying to indimate that we were talking
about forces. I was asking if you had interest in that.
Mr. Esseks: I'm trying to be very, very candid. I'm setting
up the dialogue, for the government so they can say as a
litigation, we want some public use. kud the way you would do
it, I think, is so many rounds per month, per se~on, off peak
and so on as long as it were not overly intrusive. But we all
know that there are times when these things are very busy and
there are times when there is nothing happening and it would be
just as well to have some use. But that is definitely a
balance. So in direct answer, I would suggest to my client
that he consider that as part of the process (inaudible).
Mr. War~: Could we do this under the present town code?
Mr. Esseks: I think, if the town were interested in it, I
would suggest to them to allow the golf club facility itself,
the building itself meeting room and restaurant be a special
PLANNING BOA~ 34 FEBRU~Y 13, 1990
permit of either the Planning Board, anyone of the boards, but a
special permit as an incident to the subdivision.
Mr. Ward: Is it possible to create 50% open space meaning the
golf, and have more than 50% open space so that we are not being
less than 50% when we put in tbs club house and put in the
amenities package of pavements and other things.
Mr. Esseks: (Inaudible)
Mr. Ward: What I am saying that basically the concept of the
cluster is to create fifty percent in open space as a starting
point for the clustering.
Mr. Howard Youngs: I think you can do it under the
cGndominiumwhere you are only selling the space, the low or
within the unit then certainly get way more than fifty percent
but we're talking about setting aside a one-acre lot for each
unit then I think you have some difficulty.
Mr. Esseks: A way I have seen it done is you take this piece
here, instead of having a quarter or hale acre lot around on a
cluster basis you have a smaller piece like a quarter of an acre
and you give another quarter of an acre or half an acre of
easement.
Mr. Ward: Why I am coming from this angle is that we have
presented this concept to the code co~ittee here in the town,
to the town board and maybe they will listen again but we're not
getting anyplace with it. We have opposition with it on our
town board level. So our problem is that even if we agreed with
you right now and I don't know that that approach is going to
work right now.
Howard Young: You mean
Mr. Ward: You mean to get to lower than acre lots?
Mr. Orlowski: The problem is the County Health Department.
Mr. Young: No, they're not a problem.
Mr. Orlowski: They'd go lower than one half acre?
Mr. Esseks: (Inaudible).
Mr. Orlowski: What type of water are you going to provide here?
Mr. Esseks: Public water.
Mr. Orlowski: It will have to be public.
Mr. Esseks: I think the Health Department will approve this
right away.
PLANNING BOARD 35 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Ward: Our problem has been, we haven't been successful
ourselves yet to get this point across to the Town Board so here
we are we're starting out at a position and we've got too many
hurdles here to follow. That is why I was asking a question
that if you were to take your acre lot and your conservation
easement or do whatever you had to do with it to reduce it to a
third of an acre or whatever you are going to reatly have to put
the house on or a half acre lot and you had a homeowners
association which then controlled that easement and the open
space which then the golf course was developed on. The golf
course could still be developed in the backyard of an acre lot.
I think if we proceeded that way, I think we're very close to
doing something.
Mr. Esseks: I have no trouble with that concept.
Mr. Young: t don't remember the code exactly but I think there
are a couple of things in the cluster where it talks about
single family residence or multiply family residence were
attached. If you went on attached thing I don't believe there
is any lot size once you go into your code.
Mr. Ward: The ontyplace per lot for attached housing would be
in the multiply zone.
Mr. Young: Under clustering, it allows attached dwelling.
Mr. Ward: Not in our code, we want to do that as the Planning
Board. We have been after the Town Board for a number of years
to allow us to do that because there are many times we would
love to take a site and say O.K. let us do our density yield map
and lets do what is best for this site. We've got a restraint,
we have a ....
Mr. Esseks: Why don't you have us do the math and come back
to you. I think we can beat that criteria but I. also think
that if you are interested I hope I hear you're interested that
we might be able to come up with a proposed modification to the
code that we would discuss with you and discuss with the Town
Board to see if they would adopt it.
Mr. Ward: I think if you want the basic, if we could get the
basic 281 which is the site plan approval based on the density,
you know yield, that is what we're after, as-a tool. Our
problem is we don't have it as yet. If we had that in place
then your processing' as a condominium project would work.
Mr. Esseks: 281 can either be an approval in advance by the
town, a charge to the Planning Board to do things within a
certain parameter or it would be one by one. The old cases
approach it that way. So you could come up with a conditional
resolution with a 281 approval s,,hject to ramification by the
Town Board. Of course you prob~hlywouldn't want to do that
PLANNING BOARD 36 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
unless the Town Board indicated that they would look at it. But
you always have the ability to go back and have them do it in
that fashion.
Mr. Orlowski: Have you had any conversation with Suffolk County
Water? This has to be a municipal system here.
Mr. Young: It doesn't have to be a municipal system (inaudible).
Mr. Orlowski: We can't approve any subdivision unless the
water is a municipal system run by Suffolk County water that is
a Town Board Resolution. A~y one has public water has to be a
municipal system.
Mr. Esseks:
advantage.
also.
I offered that as an option. I thought it was an
We could have an on-site community water system
Mr. Orlowski: It has to be run by Suffolk County water, it
has to be accepted and maintained by them.
Mr. Young: I think Bill was looking down the road to see if the
environmental findings on this one would push us thru a public
water system. There is nothing in the Health Department
regulations that would require public water. We could have
individual wells.
Mr. Orlowski: I know, you just talked about it in the beginning
and ...... .
Mr. Esseks: I thi~k we will have less trouble with the
Suffolk County Health Department if we have a water main
extension and supply water for irrigating fairways and supplying
water for that.
Mr. Orlowski: I'm sure you will.
Mr. Esseks: So why fight it. You're interested in what code
changes there might have to be in order to accomplish this. I
think you are interested our ability to have a water main
extension. What else ...... .
Mr. McDonald: We would like to see if there is an alternative
that is possible as an option that the lots, there be existing
lots with scenic easements or conservation easements on them as
an alternative method.
Mr. Esseks: I like that and also you want to know about some
degree of public access.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, I think you have all the questions. We can
come up with a list at the work session and get it to you.
PLANNING BOARD 37 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Esseks: Would you be allowed to go down to half-acre lots
and a cluster that can go under 50%?
Mr. Orlowski: Thirty thousand, three quarters.
Mr. Young: We can do 30 square foot lots .... .
Mr. Ward: The only thing is that as long as you went for
central water you probably could because the Health Department
looks at those thirty thousand s~me times and says we're not
happy with that.
Mr. Orlowski: The ~ealth Department has told us that tkey will
keep an open mind case by case. The thirty thousand single and
separates.
Mr. Esseks: Inaudible.
Mr. Young: I think too that if I do this in a hurry and there is
not much technical and the thing is that you did look at it and
I think we can do thirty thousand possibly with open space
easements on the rear of some of these lots. I happen to think
that this property is quite unique and it does offer Route 25
there with the possibilities of a clubhouse right thereand it
wouldn't disturb any surroundings around it (inaudible).
Mr. Ward: My personal feeling would be is if you can show the
easement space and the open space is substantial and it probably
would be above and beyond the 50% that you really are not, your
amenities package is really a minor portion of the whole thing.
It would be different if you were coming out and you were saying
well your banging every square inch and we're not going to get
our 50% open space but it will close and you have to put ten
acres also in here for paved road and the clubhouse and a
parking lot and tennis courts and a sw~m~ing pool and now you
are starting to a~,
Mr. Esseks: You do count the open space, the green's and the
Mr. Ward: That's correct, that's right.
Mr. Esseks: Do you have any reaction to question of our
having the roads private?
Mr. Ward: Highway superintendent would probably be happy, yes.
Mr. Esseks: I think there is some marketin~ advantages but
also it will stop a short cut.
Mr° McDonald: There is not a lot of connector roads between
those two roads and I'm just saying I reserve my decision until
I saw exactly what was happening.
PLANNING BOARD 38 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Esseks: A toll.
Mr. McDonald: For what it is going to cost to build you may
need a toll. I would like to say that I think this is really
timely and when you take the fact that Atlantic and other
projects of a sLmilar nature in the county plus just completed
county study on golf courses, I think this is good timing.
We've got a lot of information in which is educated judgements
where we didn't have that information in the past so I think
it's got good timing.
Mr. Israel: The only reason we wanted to go for single and
separate is because this condominium idea I do need a zone
change in this town. I think that is a more difficult step than
addressing it as single and separate.
Mr. McDonald: Of handedly, I think we did great.
Mr. Orlowski: That is very true.
Mr. Esseks: (Inaudible).
Mr. Orlowski: O.K. there is nothing left on my agenda.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that we adjourn.
Saltaire Resident: The area is going to be subdivided and
needless to say everybody is hoping we could get the cluster
down at the other end, because Wavecrest is bad. We have so
many children. The traffic is going to be horrendous. It isn't
going to be just one development next to M~tthews is another
development and eventually at the end of the road another. It is
not just now but it is planning for the future, not just the
immediate. It does make sense to really be careful.
Mr. McDonald: I would like to say that we have been out there
recently and we're still examining it. Nothing has been decided
we're still very preliminary on this and we welcome your coming
and hope you continueto come.
Saltaire Resident: (Inaudible)
Mr. Orlowski: We're still working on it, we haven't forgotten
about you.
Saltaire Resident: We've been here for so many years, it just
makes sense to do it the other way really.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.
PLANNING BOARD 39 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Marion Warner: I live in Mattituck and I am unhappy the way
Mattituck looks there is so much commercial property that the
trees are being cut down and it is commercial when they are
cutting the trees down and going to put shopping centers. I
just feel badly. We came out here in 1971 and it was beautiful
and now it's getting so commercial. The traffic is horrendous.
I know you can't stop progress but I hate to see all the farms
go and you know what Mattituck looks like on Main Road that
beverage place, that's not very attractive.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, we agree with you but some things we can't
change.
Marion Warner: What can I do as a concerned citizen?
Mr. McDonald: We've asked for an architectural review on
several occasions but as of this point have been unable to
achieve that. That would give us some measure of control over
the appearance of the frontages of these buildings that is one
thing that can be done. You are concerned about trees,
evidentially last year it went up to the code committee ~hout
tree clearing but nothing has been done. Who is the head of the
code co~ittee?
Mr. Orlowski: George Pe~uy.
Mr. McDonald: You may direct comments to him about the clearing
of trees.
Marion Warner: It's Mr. Cardinale's property and t talked to
Mr. Cardinale and he assured me that it is going to be a lovely
shopping area but it is another shopping area.
Mr. McDonald: Zoning is in the hands of the town board, I'm
afraid. There's Mr. Penny right outside there you could
probably talk to him in the hallway. I'm sure he would be happy
to talk to you.
Marion Warner: I don't know if you understand what I'm saying
though.
Mr. Orlowski: We ~uderstand and there's a lot of things, we
went though the master plan here a little while back and we put
together a plan and unfortunately most of it never did get
adopted what we proposed. What the town board adopted iswhat
is existing now and as you said right in the beginning you can't
stop progress. We can only try to make sure it is done properly
and an Architecture Review Board that Fir. McDonald talked about
is something we have been pushing for since I've been here, for
ten years.
Marion Warner: How can you get that?
PLANNING BOARD 40 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: I don't know, we keep bringing it up every year
as a standard operating procedure and nobody wants to ah.
Mr. Ward: Those are decisions that the Town Board will have to
make because that is a code change and they are the ones that
can do that.
Mr. Orlowski: We can't do it too well over here.
Marion Warner: O.K., thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other questions or comments? I have a motion
to adjourn, all those in favor.
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
(Mr. Aliperti asked to address the board. The Planning Board
re-opened the meeting).
Mr. Tony Aliperti: I am the applicant for Vineyard
Estate for Oregon Road. This application, ladies and gentlemen
has been here for almost three years. I don't even have a
sketch plan approval yet. I had a couple of meetings with the
commission and they told me they understood what we were doing.
All of a sudden I got a letter after three years that you
request the 30,000 square feet lot subdivision in the farm area
which I personally sent a letter a couple of months ago and as
of today I didn't get any answer. I disagree with 30,000 square
feet, I feel it is a open field and from two acres to 30,000
square feet ......... besides I have to put a road almost a mile
long and I don't see why you want me to put a subdivision of
3~,000 square feet.
Mr. Ward: What were the other issues?
Mr. Orlowski: I think the main issue and one we have been
looking at all the time and it keeps popping us is you keep
putting four lots on the sound and we don't want them there.
Three lots, I told you that and I've told you that personally.
Mr. Aliperti: I understand but I intend to go before the
Zoning Board of Appeals because under the two acre clustering
I'm entitled to four lots oN the sound.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, we're just going to let you know that we
are going to be against it.
Mr. Aliperti: I understand that. I agree with you basically.
PLANNIN~ BOARD 41 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: So then when looking at a map that number one we
have a problem to start with.
Mr. Aliperti: So in this case you want me to go before the
Zoning Board of Appeals first.
Mr. Orlowski: That one first. The 30,000 was an idea we
brought up because a cluster now allows the 30,000 which it
didn't before when you first made the application and this would
leave more open space and the board feels it is a good idea.
Mr. Aliperti: I understand but I also want to be able to
build a nice subdivision over there to build nice homes. I
don't want to put small homes one on top of the other. I
figured 40,000 square feet from 80,000 square feet lots, I think
it's plenty.
Mr. Ward: The road is not a problem, right?
Mr. Aliperti: I have to build a road no matter what. I sat
down witk Valerie and we wanted to plant vineyards on the west
side of the road which the road will be between the two
vineyards. It will be beautiful.
Mr. Orlowski: You can have more vineyards with 30,000 square
feet.
Mr. Aliperti: I have plenty of land there, I fiqure 40,000
square feet. I don~t want to put a house on top of one
another. If there were trees on the property I could understand
I. would agree with you to go 30,000 feet.
Mr. Orlowski: There was but somebody scraped the whole bluff
off.
Mr. Aliperti: No there was not. Actually it was not on the
bluff. So the question is I would like to be able to correct
the map to go to 40,000 square feet and there is another matter
that I am really concerned with thehouse on Oregon Road. That
is a big house, a lot of trees over there on that piece of
property and a beautiful barn in the back which I'm regrouping,
I~m fixing it ~p. I can't cut through that barn from the front
of the house if I go to 40,000 square feet. Z have to go to two
acres just to keep the house. Now, if you recommend me to go to
(inaudible) on two lots from the house on two acres and the rest
one big piece of property~ Tell me that I do that.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, that is the easiest way-and they did tell
you in the office to set that piece off first and then subdivide
the rest using the density.
Mr. Aliperti: I figure that was within two years I was
finished with all subdivision but now three years I will do
PLANNING BOARD 42 FEBRUARY 13 , 1990
anything so I might as well go back and split the two lots and
then I come back with the perimeter.
Mr. Orlowski: In the meantime, we will think about the 30,000
and take another look at that.
Mr. A!iperti: Alright, now we have that one on Elijah's Lane,
Secti6n II and Section Iii. Originally, when I purchased the
property Section II was already subdivided with preliminary
approval. One acre. This approval would include approximately
four acres of park and recreation which was located south of the
subdivision. I request with the commission that I want to go
ahead with this subdivision because I have preliminary
approval. It will be no time to waste for me to wait for
SectiOn III and she promise me that if we do file a Section III
we will do both of them together and we'll do things pretty fast
which is great. I filed that in meantime three years, it took
me to get approval on Section II and Section III. Mr. Parkin
was my partner and myassociate which, as of today is no longer
my partner so I took over the map and I see the final map on
Section III which I disagree with the decision 100%. With all
due respect I feel I should have never have lost the four acres
for park and recreation that originally Section I was approved
by this board which does park and recreation for all the three
secti6ns. So at the last minute this board subdivided a piece
of prQperty which I don't think you had the right to do so when
you knew there was an application pending on S~ction II and
Section III, it was based on the park and recreation that
belonged originally to Section I, Section II and Section III.
Why this board or any other agency in this townallowed
affordable housing to be built on park and recreation piece of
property.
Mr. Orlowski: As the owner of the property, when it up for tax
sale weren't you notified?
Mr. Aliperti: No, when I bought the property this is why I
have a question mark on this why was I doing On Section II
because I if I wasn't dealing on Section II by your staff or the
commission I would have find out if I had lost the Section to
the park and recreation. The question is, first of all I didn't
know ~t that time all I owned the property six months after the
County took over so I think that before you give me final on the
Section II that I should of be aware of park and recreation
piece of property area was not no longer part of subdivision.
Mr. Orlowski: But that is part of ownership and we don't get
involved in ownership and I think you should have been aware
that that section was taken over by the County.
Mr. Aliperti: There is a question mark on that because I
don't think., now all of sudden you come in and you want a fee
for park and recreation from me and I disagree but I would to
discuss Section III with you gentlemen and resolve this the best
PLANNING BOARD 4~3 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
way before we go any further. I spoke to some elected official
and I understand they are going to have a meeting and the~ are
going to let me know but I would like to discuss a little
further on Section III on the final.
Mr. McDonald: They are going to have a meeting and let you know
what?
Mr. Aliperti: I feel that I should not pay for the park ~and
recreation fee.
Mr. McDonald: But, they are going to let you know. These
people you had a meeting with are going to let you know w~ether
you are going to have to pay that or not?
Mr. Aliperti: Correct. Then all of a sudden I got a phone
call to me from the Planning Board describing of what the
condition is but I would like to solve the problem. I would
like to discuss Section III. You know the last thing I have a
couple of letters from the board that no mention what so ever
about owners association on Section III.
Mr. Orlowski: You know, your partner that was involved was at
every meeting and you have conditional final approval on Section
II and III and he sat there and agreed to everything.
Mr. Aliperti: He has no correspondence saying that I need
Homeowner's Association.
Mr. Orlowski: He has it.
Mr. Aliperti: No he doesn't, I took the file and there is
nothing. Especially what I would like to do is t would hike to
show the map you know first of all at this time afte~ three
years it is going to cost me an addition $20,000,00 and ~en you
put a homeowners association on eight lots it is not the proper
way to do it. I mean we talking about people they have a
question mark whether they want to buy lot o~ want to bu~ a
house over there. I recommend that I'll show you the map, the
rough sketch, it!s only an extend of 50 feet additional ~at you
approved and we leave the last two lots for three and on~ half
acres each. We can buffer it in the back which will be a part
of the natural. The question is I hate the thought of a
homeowner's association at this time. I would like to ex~end
those three lots, they are nineteen acres, eight lots to,go
50,000 square feet and leave the rest of two acres of 3,000
square feet with a buffer in the back 200 feet, 250 feet,
whatever you recommend and this way .... .
Mr. Ward: You have a copy of that map?
Mr. Aliperti: Yes.
PLANNING BOARD 44 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Why don't you set up an appointment with our
office and sit down with Ms. Scopaz because for us to review
this now and changes we are not ready to do that.
Mr. Aliperti: I understand. The question is that everytime
we go back and forth it is six months.
Mr. Orlowski: But, we haven't been going back and forth, it has
been your partner that has been here and I thought he was very
well satisfied when he left the last time.
Mr. Aliperti: Not when I see the change with the homeowners
association.
Mr. Orlowski: Why don't you submit a letter and a sketch of
what you want into the office and we will set up a appointment
to review it and then the board will sit down and review it and
we can bring you in and talk about it.
Mr. Aliperti: You want to see this, you can make a decision
on your own.
Mr. McDonald: It's premature, there are a lot of regulations
that have to be adhered to and we have to make sure that all
those regulations are adhered to and we couldn't do it in a
matter of a few minutes now.
Mr. Aliperti: I don't expect that you tell me but at least
you will see it and you .... ..
Mr. Ward: We'll take the map with us.
Mr. Aliperti: I leave these two lots with the buffer in the
back by the railroad. 200 feet 250 whatever and it will be
regular subdivision it is only 50,000 square feet except the two
lots. I don't have to do homeowners association, I don't have
to create a (inaudible) because when you sell houses, it happens
to me many times, when you sell houses people they question
which one conforms with open space, who~s going to pay the tax?
Its going to happen the same thing.
Mr. McDonald: What is the acreage in this?
Mr. Orlowski: This is an AC Zone so it has to be clustered, it
is mandatory.
Mr. McDonald: I was going to say if it is over ten acres it is
out of our hands and it is in the Town Code it has to be
clustered. Lets take this map, I would like to review the
abutters and the file and set up a meeting with staff and voice
your concerns.
Mr. Orlowski: Valerie, Mr. Alipertiwill send a letter with
his co~,m~ents and you'll set up an appointment with him and what
PLANNING BOARD 45 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
he wants to do and we will review it at our work session or at
our next meeting.
Ms. $copaz: With regard to what?
Mr. Ortowski: He is redesigning but you have to stay with a
cluster.
Mr. McDonald: The code is not going to allow us to do this.
This is mandated. The town will not take your open space.
Mr. Aliperti: I don't have to give you the easement, there is
a road over here to the property.
Mr. McDonald: Yeah but, th~ cluster regulation mandates that
it's an open space and that it is a separate parcel and that it
be held and in this case since the town aon't take it, by
homeowners association. We are not left with a lot of
alternatives from our side.
Mr. Ward: This is just a small access to allow these lots to
have access to it. You sort of have to have that of some sort.
Mr. Orlowski: Section II is how many lots?
Mr. Aliperti: Nineteen.
Mr. Orlowski: So you've got twenty-seven lots.- You,re just
showing us eight lots but you have twenty-seven lots there. It's
all one parcel though.
Mr. Aliperti: The homeowners association will be on
twenty-seven lots not only on eight lots?
Mr. McDonald: If you get it sectionalized it would have to be a
separate homeowners association.
Mr. Ortowski: Well that you would have to ask the Town
Attorney, you could put it on the eight lots probably just on
the open space in that one section.
Mr. McDonald: If it is one parcel it is everybody's open space.
Mr. Orlowski: Even though it is sectionalized, but section II
has had preliminary a long, long time ago.
Mr. McDonald: As one acre?
Mr. Ward: Yes.
MS. Scopaz: Would you still be ageeable to your original
suggestion with regard to dedicating that land to the town?
Mr. McDonald: Valerie, the town won't take that.
PLA~NING BOARD 46 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Ms. Scopaz: They did agree to.
Mr. Orlowski: Not anymore. They're not even taking the WoOds
at Cutchogue.
Mr. McDonald: They are not going to taks anything.
Mr. Ward: Unless it is designated as a well site.
Mr. McDonald: And even then, it is not that clear although the
Supervisor has committed himself to it, it's not that clear that
would be the will of the board.
Ms. Scopaz: Do you want to go back to the Town Board and
propose the question?
Mr. McDonald: No, I think we should try to make him comply with
our present regulations.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, everything is complying right now and he
has conditional final approval.
Mr. McDonald: This map does not.
Mr. Ward: 'Mr. Aliperti is saying that it is a burden to
burden these eight lots or seventeen lots with the open space.
Mr. McDonald: Well, the town policy has been the opposite.
Mr. Orlowski: I don't think there is any question here.
Mr. Ward: We don't have a choice.
Mr. McDonald: The town policy has b~en the opposite of that,
that is what they desire, they want the open space in prime
agricultural lands which this is.
Mr. Orlowski: As far as the park and playground. Your land in
park and playground is being lost in taxes and you as owner of
the subdivision should bear responsibility for that.
Mr. Aliperti: Well, not really because in December of 1986
when the County took over the property in March Of 1986, the
park and recreation.
M~. McDonald: The County took over when?
Mr. Aliperti: March of 1986.
Mr. McDonald: You bought when?
Mr. Aliperti: In December 1986.
PLANNING BOARD 47 FEBRUARY 13 , 1990
Mr. McDonald: So it was done before and your title didn't
reflect this? It sounds to me that you have a grievance with
your title company. We have to review our file too.
Mr. Orlowski: You are already approved under the conditions,
which you must have the letter.
Mr. Aliperti: Under the other homeowners association, right,
about two years.
Mr. McDonald: We are not left with any alternative for you
really, in that respect.
Mr. Ward: No, only if the town would take it but there policy
has been to not take it.
Mr. McDonald: There is no real overriding reason to rec~maend
that they take it in any case. There is nothing unusual about
the property.
Mr. Aliperti: The question is well I disagree to give to the
town. The question is to eliminate this homeowners association
and I was thinking maybe we deed to the lesser of the two lots
to the property and give it a nice buffer in the back.
Mr. Orlowski: On the open space you have to approach the town
board but we already know from talking with town board members
that they are not going to accept anything like ~hat.
Mr. Ward: We can't have the large lots with the cluster because
then it defeats the cluster.
Mr. Orlowski: It will be one parcel.
Mr. Aliperti: I would rather wait for Section III. I would
rather wait and go for a regular subdivision and not a cluster.
Mr. Orlowski: You can't.
Mr. Ward: It is mandated in our code. If it was less then ten
acres then we do. Sometimes someone will come in with eight or
nine acres, or seven acres and we'll create two or t~ee big
lots.
Mr. Orlowski: You know, on your conditional final approval it
is probably going to expire shortly and you may end up with
nothing if you don't look into that.
Mr. Aliperti: I've got everything approval except the
homeowners association.
Mr. Orlowski: But it is a conditional and it is conditioned on
& lot of things and if you have a problem get to this board in
writing right away so we can either extend that or --.
PLANNING BOARD 48 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. Ward: Don't let it lapse.
Mr. Aliperti: The question is there is no such thing, lapse
what?
Mr. Ward: It is a conditional final approval and you have
certain conditions you have to meet. If those conditions aren't
met within a time period ---.
Mr. Aliperti: Wait a minute that is a mistake. It takes two
years, you can't penalize me.
Mr. Orlowski: We're not penalizing you. You go ahead you can
form it and sell your lots but conditional final approval to
sell anything is based on the conditions that were in the
approval and as of yet we have nothing. You don't have a signed
map and it is good for six months and when did we approve that?
Mr. Aliperti: I just find out that the Health Department
expired. You see the question is the last minute that is when I
find a lot of things.
Mr. Orlowski: You have to get to your X-partner.
Mr. Aliperti: (inaudible).
Mr. McDonald: Hold it, you're not discussing this subdivision
anymore. You're talking about a different subdivision, right.
Mr. Aliperti: Yes.
Mr. McDonald: What is that letter? Can we see that?
Mr. Orlowski: That letter was answered. Melissa just told me
she sent it out.
Melissa: Not a direct answer to that letter but in response to
the maps we got. We got the same letter pretty much three times.
Mr. Aliperti: You did not answer me the letter.
Mr. McDonald: Can we check into that Melissa?
Melissa: Yes.
Mr. McDonald: We'll check into that, there is always a chance
that there is a problem in the mail, right. Let's see what. our
files show on it. We want to get to the bottom of it too.
Mr. McDonald: We're back up at Vineyard Estates.
Mr. Orlowski: I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
~LANNING BOARD 49 FEBRUARY 13, 1990
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Being no further business to discuss, the meeting was adjourned
at 8:45 p.m.o
Respectfully, submitted,
Temporary Secretary
Bennett O~%owskf-Jr., C~rman
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THeE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK
Town Clerk, Tom of ~u¢.old