HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-01/18/1990Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York
11971
SCOTT L. HARRIS
Supervisor
Fax (516) 765-1823
Telephone (516) 765-1800
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OFSOUTHOLD
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
MINUTES
JANUARY 18, 1990
Present were:
Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman
Member G. Richie Latham
Member Richard Ward
Member Kenneth Edwards
Member Mark McDonald
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Jane Rousseau, Temporary Secretary
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Subdivisions - Final:
Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, 7:30 p.m. John Beebe - This minor
subdivision is on 97,035 sq. ft. located at Cutchogue.
SCTM 1000-103-3-5.
Mr. Orlowski: We have proof of publication in the Suffolk Times
and the Long Island Traveler Watchman. At this time everything
is in order for a public hearing. I'll ask if there are any
objections to this subdivision? Hearing none, are there any
endorsements of this subdivision?
Karen Hagen: I'm from Wickham, Wickham and Bressler and I've
been advised by Melissa that the Health'Department maps have
been stamped and are now in your possession. The Covenants and
Restrictions which were also approved by the board are now ready
for being recorded at the County Clerk's Office. I think
everything should be in order at this time for an approval.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements of this subdivision?
Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but
may have information pertaining to this subdivision that may be
of interest to the board? Hearing none, any questions from the
board?
PLANNING BOARD 2 JANUARY 18, 1990
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: No further questions, I'll declare this hearing
closed.
Mr. Orlowski: I'll entertain a motion to hold the next Planning
Board Meeting on Tuesday, February 13, 1990 at 7:30 p.m. at
Southold Town Hall.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald
Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Ortowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: I'll also entertain a motion to approve the
minutes of November 20th, 1989.
Mr. Orlowski: So moved.
Mr. Laths]n: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards,
Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: 7:35 p.m. - RitaBrown - This minor
subdiviSion is on 12.506 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM ~1000-94-3-1.3.
Mr. Orlowski: We have proof of publication in both local
papers. At this time everything is in order for a final
h~aring. I'll ask if there are any objections to this
subdivision? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this
subdivision?
Donald McGayhe: I~m public council to Edson and Bruer. I
believe the application is complete and everything is in order.
PLANNING BOARD 3 JANUARY 18, 1990
I would respectfully request that the board approve this
application. Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements of this subdivision?
Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but
may have information pertaining to this subdivision that would
be of interest to the board? Hearing none, any questions from
the board?
Board: No.
Mr. Orlowski: Being no further questions, I'll declare this
hearing closed.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS:
Final Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Scott Kaufman- This minor subdivision is on
6.686 acres located at Cutchogue.
SCTM ~1000-97-3-20.
Mr. Orlowski: What is the pleasure of the board?
Mr. Orlowski: I'll make a motion to make the following
resolution:
WHEREAS, Scott Kaufman is the owner of the property known
and designated as SCTM 91000-97-3-20, located at the north side
of Eugene's Road in Cutchogue, 721.58 ft. west of Bay Avenue.
WHEREAS, a complete application for the approval of this
Minor Subdivision, to be known as MINOR SUBDIVISION FOR SCOTT
KAUFMAN, FOR 3 lots on 6.889 acres, was submitted on August
18, 1987; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
April 11, 1988; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was held on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
December I2, 1989 at 7:45 p.m.; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and be it therefore,
RESOLVED, ~hat the Southold Town Planning Board grant
conditional final approval, and authorize the Chairman to
endorse the final surveys subject to fulfillment of the
following conditions. All conditions must be met within six (6)
months of the date of this resolution.
1. The Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions must be
filed with the Office of the County Clerk. The final maps must
no~e the Liber and Page number of the filed Declaration.
PLANNING BOARD 4 JANUARY 18, 1990
2. Final maps must be submitted (5 paper prints and 2
mylars) all containing the Health Department's stamp of approval
and the location of the firewell. The firewell must be in place
prior to the issuance of any building permits by the Building
Department.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on that
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Charles Simmons- This minor subdivision is on
57.7 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM 91000-112-1-18.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution:
WHEREAS, Charles Simmons is the owner of the property known
and designated as SCTM $ 1000-112-1-8, located at the north side
of Sound Avenue; 1700 feet west of Bergen Avenue in Mattituck;
and
WHEREAS, a complete application for the approval of this
Minor Subdivision, to be known as Minor Subdivision for Charles
Simmons, for 4 lots on 57.7 acres, was submitted on March 20
1985; and '
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
November 10, 1989; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
December 12, 1989; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and
be it therefore,
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
conditional final approval, and authorize the Chairman to
endorse the final surveys dated December 7, 1989 subject to
fulfillment of the following conditions. All conditions must be
met within six (6) months of the date of this resolution.
I. Submission of a Draft Declaration of Covenants. and
Restrictions. The draft Declaration of Covenants
PLANNING BOARD 5 JANUARY 18, 1990
and Restrictions will be reviewed by the Planning
Board and the Town Attorney. Satisfactory Covenants
and Restrictions mus~ be filed with the Office of
the county Clerk prior to endorsement of the subdivision
by the Chairman.
Mr. Orlowski: 7:40 p.m. James Bailey - This lot line change
is located on Fishers Island. SCTM ~1000-12-1-6.10.
Mr. Orlowski: Everything is in order for a public hearing.
I'll ask if there are any objections to this lot line change?
Hearing none are there any endorsements of this lot line
change? Hearing none, is there anyone that is neither pro nor
con but may have information pertaining to this subdivision that
may be of interest to the board? Hearing none, any questions
from the board?
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: We'll have to leave this hearing open until we
receive comments from the Suffolk County Planning Commission.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Orlowski~ Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: 7:45 p.m. Adam Associates This minor
subdivision is on 7.6797 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM $1000-113-12-10.
Mr. Orlowski: We have proof of publication in the local papers
and everything is in order for a final hearing. I'll ask if
there are any objections to this subdivision? Hearing none, are
there any endorsements of this subdivision?
Lynn Gordon: Attorney for the applicant and we would like to
endorse this subdivision. We will alsO answer any questions you
may have.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements? Hearing none, is there
anyone out there that is neither pro nor con but may have
information pertaining to this subdivision that would be of
PLANNING BOARD 6 JANUARY 18, 1990
interest to the board° Hearing none, any questions from the
board?
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: No further questions, I'll declare this hearing
closed.
Mr. Orlowski: August Acres - This major subdivision is on
43.062 acres located at Arshamomaque.
SCTM ~ 1000-53-4-44.1 & 44.2.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that
the following resolution be adopted.
WHEREAS, James Posillico is the owner of the property
known and designated as SCTM ~ 1000-53-4-44.1 and Posillico
Construction ~ompany, Inc. is the owner of the property known
and designate~ as SCTM ~ 1000-53-4-44.2, located at the south
side of Kerwi~ Boulevard and Bayshore Road at
Arshamomaque; and
WHEREAS, a complete application for the approval of this
Major SubdiviSion, to be known as AUGUST ACRES, for 37 lots on
50.7797 acres, was re-submitted at the preliminary stage on
June 9, 1989; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of $outhold have been met; and
be it therefore,
RESOLVEDf that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
conditional f~nal approval, and authorize the Chairman to
endorse the final surveys subject to fulfillment of the
following conditions. All conditions must be met within six (6)
months of the date of this resolution.
New mylars and paper prints, as those previously
submitted are illegible. Five paper prints and two
mylars containing current Health Department
approval, must be submitted.
e
A Homeowner's Association must be filed for the
Park and Playground area. A draft of the document
must be submitted to the Planing Board for review.
Documentation that the Homeowner's Association has
been filed must be submitted prior to endorsement of
the map by the Chairman.
3. If the road and drainage areas are not being offered
for dedication to the Town, these areas must be
PLANNING BOARD 7 JANUARY 18, 1990
included in the Homeowner's AssOciation.
Mr. Latham: I'll second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Laths]n, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Setting of Final Hearings:
Mr. Orlowski: Lindsey/Hintirliter - This minor
subdivision is for two ~-~~4~50 acres located on the
south side of Bergen Avenue; 650 feet west of Cox Neck Road in
Mattituck.
SCTM 91000-113-7-1.1 and 2.3.
Mr. Ward: I would like to make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted.
RESOLV~.D that the Southold Town Planing Board set Tuesday,
February 13th, 1990 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public hearing on
the maps dated September 26, 1989. This minor subdivision is
for two lots on 17.4350 acres located on the s/s of Bergen
Avenue; 650 w/o Cox Neck Road in Mattituck,
SCTM ~1000-7-2.1 & 2.3.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: 7:50 p.m. Henry Arbeeney - This major
subdivision is on 7.5 acres located at Southold.
SCTM 91000-59-7-3.1.
Mr. Orlowski: We have proof of publication in the local
papers and everything is in order for a final hearing. I'll
ask if there are any objections to this subdivision? Hearing
none, are there any endorsements of this subdivision?
PLANNING BOARD 8 JANUARY 18, 1990
Donald McGayhey: Counsel of Edson and Bruer attorney for the
applicant. I believe the application is in order and ready for
final approval. I respectfully request that the application be
approved.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements? Is there anyone out
there who is neither pro nor con but may have information
pertaining to this subdivision that may be of interest to the
board? Hearing none, any questions from the board?
Board: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: No further questions, I'll declare this hearing
closed.
Mr. Or!owski: 7:55 p.~. Amendment of Chapter A106-26A of
theSubdivision Regulations.
Mr. Orlowski: Final approval and filing. Upon completion of
the above requirements and notation to that effect upon the
final plan, it shall be deemed to have final approval, and the
plat shall be properly signed by the appropriate office for the
Planning Board and shall be filed by the applicant in the office
of the County Clerk. Any plat not so filed or recorded within
sixty (60) days this replaces the thirty (30) days currently
existing,of the date upon which such final plat is approved or
considered approved by reasons of failure of the Planning Board
to act shall become null and void.
Mr. Orlowski: I'll ask if there are any coa,~ents on this change
pro nor con? Any comments from the board?
Ms. Scopaz: This brings us in line with the New York State Town
Law and it gives the applicant an additional 30 days to file a
final plat which gives them just a little more time to get their
papers together and down to the County Clerk in Riverhead.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., no further comment I'll declare this
hearing closed. I think we are all in favor of this so I'll
make a motion to send this over to the Town Board and recommend
its adoption.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Ortowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 9 JANUARY 18, 1990
Hearing Held Open From Previous Meetings:
Mr. Orlowski: Alan Cardinale - (James Creek) - This minor
subdivision is on 15.9012 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM ~1000-122-3-1.1
Mr. Orlowski: I'll ask if there are any co~Lents? Hearing
none, we'll entertain a motion to keep this open because we are
still waiting for the Suffolk County Planning Commission's
report.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Henry Appel - This major subdivision is on
15.3573 acres located at Mattituck.
SCTM ~ 1000-114-12-14.
Mr. Orlowski: I'll ask if there are any comments? This hearing
was kept open from last time.
Bob Kasakavich from Peter Danowski's office - Just a note
that we provided the board with the maps showing updated Health
Department approval December 15th and that I believe the board
should be in receipt of and indicate an endorsement for the
project.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., we are still waiting for the engineer's
review of the bond estimate.
Mr. Edwards: I'll entertain a motion that we hold the hearing
open until we receive the engineer's review of the bond estimate.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Any questions on the motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski,
Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 10 JANUARY 18 , 1990
Mr. Orlowski: DBM Affordable Housing - This major
subdivisions on 37.762 acres located at Southold.
SCTM $ 1000-55-6.15.
Mr. Orlowski: This hearing has been kept open since November
20th, 1989. I'll ask if there are any comments?
William Moore: For the applicant. I think we have some real
problems here which I identified to you in my letter of January
5th. As you said, this public hearing started November 20th
and continued on December 18th and remains open until the next
meeting. Let me first start by praising the Town of Southold.
In a large measure, even this Planning Board, with actions taken
throughout the process. We went through a zone change from A-C
to affordable housing. We went through an Environmental Review
Process which inctuded a Draft Environmental Impact Statement.
The final Environmental Impact Statement which includes an
analysis of parking and the impact which envisions what you
create in this community.
We are almost at the end of the process now, we're down to
final plat public hearing and all of a sudden we run into some
sn~gs and have got a real problem. At the December 18th
meeting, you decide to keep the present public hearing open
until we, the applicant submitted revised maps and I'm
Suggesting that right off the bat keeping the public hearing
apen for that purpose is improper. In any event, the revisions
you requested with the elimination of four lots, to turn those
~nto p~rk land area, in my letter of January 5th, I erroneously
stated three and I mean to say four. In addition you asked us
to redraw three other lots to eliminate a flag lot which is
shown up in Section TwO. Back in December I objected to these
modifications being dropped on us at this time. As I said, in
my January 5th letter I addressed my legal objections to that
and in addition I made a reference to certain-practical
objections raised by Mr. Mandel in a letter to your board.
Since then, other problems have arisen. I'm speaking now in
reference to the Suffolk County Planning Co~.~ssion referral and
recommendation. Your board's records indicate that at the end
of September of 1989 the subdivision plat in final form, as we
submitted it, was referred down to the Suffolk County Planning
Commission in three sections as we laid it out to you.
Apparently, and according to your files, as of the December
20th meeting the Planning Commission hadn't yet made a
determination on those plats. As I said, the 20th meeting is
when you dropped on us the proposed and requested revisions. I
believe that what also happened was that somehow the Planning
Commission was told that those revisions were going to be made
and that on January 3rd when they acted on this resolution for
their maps, they in fact had before them maps which were
changed, not by us but by your board. I have seen the maps and
they have the green ink which I presume is the County Planning
Commission showing the flag lots eliminated and shows the four
PLANNING BOARD 11 JANUARY 18, 1990
lots are turned into parkland. Now, the letter that comes
back to the Planning Commissioner, each one of those three
sections makes no reference to recommended modification of the
plat by them. I can only presume that this board went ahead and
told them that what in fact they had before them on September
29th, 1989 wasn't correct but that in fact that lot was
eliminated and that the parkland was going to be shown in our
final plats. That is incorrect. You went ahead and referred a
map that you didn't have down there and told them to change it
and act accordingly. The Planning Commission's recommendation
for approval now, we don't even know what they are talking about
whether it's the September 29th map or whether it is as
amended by this board for January with their green markings.
We've created some legal confusion there and the recommendation
and referral down is inappropriate as or as I stated several
times the requested modifications to the map at this point.
Initially we had some cynicism, by the way, that changes were
being done in house now I don't want to spell any fear or
comment or apologize to anyone who thought that we were saying
that this Planning Board or its staff was taking a green pen to
those maps. I don't believe that was the case. I think an
error was made by this board in referring those maps and telling
the Planning Commission that the maps before them had been
a~ended. I don't think that I am naive, I think that is how it
happened. In any event that was all wrong. We weren't even
told at that point other than the 12/20 meeting that the maps
being referred now were being changed. I think where the
problem comes in is that this board believes there is a very
simple matter to change the plat once you've gotten to a final
plat and maybe to erase a couple of lines, I think I have seen
quotes in the paper to that. Whether that leads to a good plat
and a good layout at this stage I take issue with. We've got
~oward Young and Ken Abruzzo here who designed this map and
they can tell you how they could have designed it to increase
the yield on this and pack in many more lots. They did a layout
which we hope was esthetically pleasing to the community and
came up with good lots for the people who were going to own
them° In any event, you had no new information to justify the
change. Since back in May, the neighbors have made their
objections known regarding density, traffic, layout. This board
knew that, there is nothing new before you. I've told your
assistant town attorney, I've told you that this isn't the time
from a legal standpoint to go making modifications to maps. Mr.
Young can address to propose changes and what kind of
modifications and what kind of plat you can end up with in that
respect and I will ask them to address that in a moment. You
just can't go about deciding hey, it's final plat time and
we're going to make changes. You can't do it legally, it is
inappropriate and there is no justification for it. If we had
done some kind of archeological dig down there and said "Oh my
god we've found indian bones and hut's, nobody knew about it,
I would say O.K. maybe there is some grounds to modify a map.
We don't have that here. We have public concerns that this will
be addressed and I recall think you're addressing them thinking
PLANNING BOARD 12 JANUARY 18, 1990
this is easy to change. Well, it is not so easy. Let me just
finish by saying that all along this board which reviewed this
project from the Change of Zone application and unlike other
Change of Zone applications where the applicant submits a
preliminary survey on the property where he says "I want to
change my zoning to L-B, R-O, whatever. This application by the
code required a sketch to go with it. Through the whole process
that flag lot has been in there, it hasn't changed. There has
never been an indication of parkland. That hasn't changed.
You guys knew about this all along. As late as November 27th
of this year you were still throwing resolutions to the Town
Board saying tell us the amount of money in lieu of parkland
to do. We had complete reversal by your board in December from
where you were going in November. I don't know what knew
information pops up there. This money can be spent in the
co~u,unity. We're going to pay money, you have the authority to
waive a park and playground fee on us if you were so inclined.
You will modify the width of the roads. It is an affordable
housing project and don't kid yourself for a second that every
single time you impose a cost on someone it gets trickled down
to the applicant. That is where it goes. Now, if you want to
loose lots, that is what is going to happen here, we could loose
four, possibly five lots out of this. You can tell the people
on the affordable housing list which exceed twenty-eight in
number, that being the number of affordable lots we're creating
here. You can tell them, well the twenty five other people who.
want affordable lots they got a park in their s~hdivision so
wait your turn until the next affordable housing division comes
around. I don't know that the applicant is going to go back and
redraw those maps in a timely fashion. I can tell you he's not
going to. I don't know if he is going to litiqate this question
and say "hey, you guys are wrong and I am goin~ to waste the
time going to court telling you that yo~ are wrong and prove to
you that you're wrong. At this time I would like to ask Howard
to come up and explain the layout and how he could have done
this and why the changes that you have requested at this point
are really inappropriate.
Mr. Howard Young: Good evening, I'm Howard Young of Young and
Young and I'm not as prepared for this as Bill is but I am very
proud of the firm Young and Young but not so prideful that I
can't accept criticism. I have taken in a part in all
subdivisions that come out of the office of Young and Young
because I like it and I feel it is a challenge. As you caa see
from most of my subdivisions that have been presented in this
Town and other Town's that I hate straight roads, quick patterns
the way subdiviSions were done some years ago. I don't like the
looks of New York City type streets. When you do curvilinear
layouts, as you can see from the lot sizes in some cases you
loose something in yield and I've talked to my clients about
that. I think it is worth it to have a nicer co~uL~unity. As
anybody can see that if you took this same map and came in off
Boisseau Avenue straight and went to our intersection that
runs due north and make some right angle turns we could have
PLANNING BOARD 13 JANUARY 18, 1990
used up the corners and eliminated flag lots. I've been here
long enough in Southold that we've talked about having flag lots
and not having flag lots and I understand your concern.
Certainly the earlier the board can stress their desires as to
changes to a design the better job we can do. To require at the
final stage and to say pick out t. his lot and omit it or pick
these four lots and make them into a park when they were ~aid
out for the purpose of a single family residence is obviously
wrong. I would really feel badly to have a map of mine, ~ith my
name on it come to that conclusion. I don't mind changes and I
don't mind going back to the drawing boards when there are real
things. I don't think having a park on the road frontage is the
proper way to design a park. I think it should be tucked away in
a corner somewhere. I certainly can show you millions and
millions of lots on, excuse me not millions, thousands of lots
on Long Island that have done slide lot concepts and people love
them. They love the longer driveway, they love the seclusion
off of it. I do realize that there are mixed feelings on the
slide lots. Certainly, just to pull that lot out for the sake
of eliminating slide lots doesn't make any planning sense to me
but have the opportunity to go back and redesign this whole
subdivision with a new set of parameters I think we could do
something better but we're not at that stage, we're not at the
sketch plan stage. I have spent thousands of dollars or my
clients have spent thousands of dollars to get to this stage and
I think certainly it is inappropriate to make these requests
just as a whim. I certainly appreciate the need of parks, I've
been at this long enough to know that parks are desirable. I
wish that young people had more opportunity but certainly money
is an answer there too as well as land and the town. There is
plenty of open land out here in Southold, you can have parks in
a practical place. Thank you.
Mr. Mandel: I would like to address the board in favor of
this project and I have prepared a memorandum to do that with,
but at the outside I would like to remind the board that here in
this building they could find for their own satisfaction the
quantity of parks here in Southold that have been foreclosed by
the County. The Town is now trying to buy back from the County
to use for affordable housing or for whatever other purpose they
can get them for, if in fact they can get them. I don't think
you can show me more than one or maybe two parks in all of
Southold that are actually being used as parks. In our
neighboring development which was complaining about parks, they
have one lot that is totally unbuildable which they call a
park. This has high tension wires together with a high tension
pole directly in the middle of it going across it wit~ a 50 foot
easement. Well, that can't be used for any other purpose. Yet,
it happens to be hazardous if it is really used as a park
because they also built a pond across the street and they don't
have a lifeguard there, for example, for the summer time or
winter. No kids use it. In the summer when somebody gets
married they have a little bench there and they can take a
photograph of it. We don't need that. They have a luxury
PLANNING BOARD 14 JANUARY 18, 1990
housing community on the water that was developed in 1968. They
have one-half acre plats, I don't think I have to tell this
board the difference in the cost of land in 1968 as against
today, but that is neither here nor there. Let me try to give
you the benefit of this memorandum if it is in fact the
benefit. I have been engaged for some four years in a major
effort to create affordable housing in Southold, off Boisseau
and south of Yennecott Park Subdivision. The substantial effort
was a result of not only having purchased this thirty-seven
acre, former Wheeler farm property, but also from having
knowledge of the great need of such housing in our Town. I
personally chaired the Southold Town Affordable Housing
Committee in 1985 and 1986. This fifteen member committee,s
work initiated the present affordable housinq portion of our
Town Zoning Code. The proposed map of Highpoint II has the
benefit of my more than 50 year experiences as a professional
builder and developer, as well as the expertise of Young and
Young. You have given this map preliminary approval in May of
1989 and followed this with proposed final approval only subject
to a water contract with Greenport and the Suffolk County
Planning Commission approval at your November meeting. A
succeeding open hearing meeting of December, requested changes
such as lots forty-one through forty-four which are adjacent to
the drainage area should be set aside for park and playground
purposes. Lots five, six and seven in Section Two should be
redrawn so as to create three standard lots. At present, lot
six is a flag lot surrounded by five backyards. On January
19th, I obtained for the first time copies of correspondence
relative to this project written by residents of Yennecott Park,
our neighbors to the North. In the main, their letters concern
themselveS with criticisms such as lack of open space, no park,
a flag lot. I resent for one thing not having had an
opportunity to reply to these pieces of correspondence but I
believe that the letters referring to a map engineered by Younq
and Young as quote, "illconceived child's jigsaw puzzle and not
worthy of your consideration." clearly reflect the bias of the
writer and don't warrant your consideration. Furthermore, the
same writer does not adverse toward developing sixteen luxury
units whiCh he says in the same letter. I think it is pretty
clear what the writer is interested in, she'~s concerned about
having people along side of her that may not be, their
pocketbooks may not be as great. I've heard such comment about
park, our park was never indicated nor was one ever requested by
this board until your last meeting. Refusing to add a park at
this late date, I should like to point out the following:
Yennocott Park map has an area called a park which is a
totally unbuildahle area having high tension lines, Long
Island Lighting Company bisecting it. We're not burdened by
high tension lines° All of our land is buildable. Further,
our objective is to provide fifty percent affordable housing
pursuant to the Southold code. The cost is a great limiting
factor so that any of our map area restricted against
improvement was burdensome. Those letter writers from the
luxurious waterfront co~L,~nity at Yennecott Park are really
PLANNING BOARD 15 JANUARY 18, 1990
concerned over the possibility of less affluent affordable
becoming neighbors. Yennecott is built without curbs which we
are required to construct, without a legal drainage system which
we are required to construct and was established with many other
currently required costly items omitted in 1968 such as
underground wiring. Needless to say land in 1968 was maybe 10%
or less as the cost of land today. There map for example, was
subject to a total bond for improvements representing land at a
cost of $47,000 dollars. The map of Highpoint II requires a
bond of over $550,000 dollars. This board has no stand as to a
park and to a playground area. You have not requested a park in
a timely fashion. Furthermore, we are not in the city where
there is little or no outside room for child's play and
recreation. We supply each family with a park, a full one-half
acre lot and that is a lot of grass to cut. There is no need
for more additional open space. However, there is a great need
for affordable housing. We're providing fifty six parks. I'm
not unfamiliar with parks, I gave parkland together with Mr.
Wells to Southold. I gave the corner of Main Street and
Youngs Avenue, a short distance from here. The park which all
the public can enjoy. I know a little bit about parks, also I
created the subdivision known as Highpoint in East Marion which
thanks to Young and Young is now being used as a model for
future subdivisions elsewhere. We know a little about the
subject. If you have the recognized need for affordable
housing, it's a crying need here in Southold and the excellence
of the map presented, I would urge you here and now to close
this hearing and give final approval. Let's start this job,
let's start the new decade, the new year with affordable
housing. The Town Board approved this affordable housing zone
change back in April of 1989. You, the Planning Board, have
every reason to give it your approval now. Thank you.
Mr. Ortowski: Any other comments? Does the board have any
comments? Well, as far as closing the hearing, the board is in
no position to close this hearing because we do no~ have the
valid water contracts. That is really, I think, the biggest
issue here that is the water contracts. The changing of the map
and adding park and playground I think the board is very happy
and has worked with the applicants with due diligence in every
way and we have basically fast tracked this application.
Probably too fast because now we're stuck with an open hearing
and no water contracts. A public hearing is a public hearing
and it's to listen to the public. You state some cases here and
I believe that they are good cases but in each case upon review
and review by our Town Attorney the cases where the Planning
Board would appear to be out and out trying to change the zone
on the applicant and do something to totally stop the project.
We do not want to stop this project, we want to keep it going
and we want to work with you. We find it wonderful that the
surrounding public has no problems with the affordable housing.
Their co~m~ent is the open space. We're in a high density
development here and as far as health and safety for the
children and elderly or who ever is in here this open area would
PLANNING BOARD 16 JANUARY 18, 1990
probably be a large asset to it. I still feel that you can
change the maps without losing any lots what so ever and give
some type of park and playground. We are willing to work with
you on that and not take away the four lots. Mr. Isreal has
stated that he probably could do that. We feel that instead of
money in lieu of the park and playground, give us the park and
playground and use that money maybe to change these maps. I
just want to get it straight. We are not against it. We want
to work with you. The four lots can be, we can adjust that and
keep the four lots in and try to work with you in getting some
open space and park and playground in this subdivision. We just
approved one in Greenport where we have an affordable
subdivision with twice as much open space with only a few more
lots. It is a good idea and we would like to pursue it. The
biggest question and I think the biggest problem is these water
contracts. Talking to the head of the water department today he
tells me that there are no signed water contracts and that you
have filed an Article 78 against the Village of Greenport.
Where does that leave this board as far as there is no water for
this project to justify this density right now.
Mr. Mandel: Where it leaves this board is they can approve
the project subject to the water contract coming in.
Mr. Orlowski: And maybe subject to changing of the maps too.
Mr. Mandel: No, why?
Mr. Orlowski: Why would we cha~ge it subject without water?
Mr. Mandel: Why would you change the map. You have no map
without the water.
Mr. Orlowski: That's right.
Mr. Mandel: Alright, so you can approve this map you have now
subject to having the water. We're not saying you should
approve it without water.
Mr. Orlowski: Then we can also change it subject ..... .
Mr. Mandel: What we are saying is you should approve it
without park and we're very definitely committed to that. You
have absolutely no grounds to require a park. It's not good for
the community, you have parks you can buy by the dozen here in
Southold that are not being used.
Mr. Orlowski: I could see if this board was taking something
away or taking affordable lots away but we are not doing that.
Mr. Mandel: Well, you are certainly taking away from the
making of this map. This map was in your possession in May.
You can't make major changes now.
PLANNING BOARD 17 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Why can't we?
Fir. Mandel: Why, well, that is for my attorney to advise.
But I can't tell you why, I don't know the law but I do know
that at this late date, the cost to the developer in both time
and effort to change a map is not simply erasing a couple of
lines.
Mr. Orlowski: May I ask where the water contracts are?
Mr. Mandel: Yes, they are having a meeting tonight discussing
it and if it wasn't for this meeting, I would be there° We gave
to the Village of Greenport, $144,000 or $145,000 dollars for
this water contract to hold it in escrow. The whole dispute
between us and Greenport now is that they don't want to hold the
money in escrow, they want to use it right away and we're saying
to them, until our map is approved, you can't use it but let's
start somewhere, give us an approved map subject to the water
contract then I have no argument. I can't start in now and
maybe come back here and you say well change this and change
that and change the other thing.
Mr. Orlowski: I don't think we are asking for a lot of changes
here.
Mr. Mandel: Any change you make in a map that has been as
complete as this one is, is a major change. You've got the
water lines on here, every lot line on here, all the lot
numbers, the whole works is here. It's all been engineered.
All the grades, the profiles. You just can't erase a couple of
lines and not change the rest of it.
Mr. Orlowski: Does the board have any other comments or
questions?
Mr. Ward: I don't believe that you have to change road profiles
to accomplish what we are asking.
Mr. Mandel: Well, if you were to ask me to do something that
you could convince me that it was worthwhile for either the
people that we are building for, or hope to build for, or for
the Town of Southold you wouldn't have to ask twice.
~ir. Ward: Well, we're apparently at odds at what we believe is
right.
Mr. Mandel: Not only at odds but I think I can prove that
there is no necessity for the park, I think I have.
Mr. Ward: With the density we are looking at and with no local
place for those kids to go. I'm saying that with the density
that we're dealing with here and the fact that there is no place
in the community for those kids to go - - -.
PLANNING BOARD 18 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. Mandel: Well, the density here is exactly the same as in
Yennecott Park, no different. Yennecott was permitted to be
built on a clay bed, I bet you that half the cellars in
Yennecott Park have water. This property is not on clay, it's
on sand. Yennecott Park is dumping its water into
Arshamomaque Pondwhich is polluting the pond. They are doing
it right now, it is a violation of your code, Violation of the
law in the State of New York. We have to maintain and operate
and put in the proper drainage system and that what has been
legally designed here, we hold all of our water on site. It's
not going into Yennecott and into the pond. We are doing
everything strictly according to the law. By the way, I think I
mentioned this once before. We're doing this for affordable
housing. When Yennecott Park was built it was built with about
10% of the cost of the land that we have to pay for this land.
We're putting all these i,~rovements into the land and they
don't have to and yet you say, but you need a park. How come
they don't have a park? You think that area labeled park is a
park with the high tension wires? That you call a park? I
built in Highpoint and I don't have a park in Highpoint. Did I
get away with something?
Mr. Ward: What are the size of your lots?
Mr. Mandel: One acre.
Mr. Ward: A lot different density.
Mr. Mandel: Oh sure, a little bit more grass to cut, but a
half acre is not big enough for a child to play on? You know
you're talking like you're in New York City or Queens with
apartments going up in the air where the kids don't have a
chance to play anywhere. Everyone on this plat is a full half
acre.
Mr. Moore: One last co~m~ent, Mr. Chairman and that is, I didn't
want to get into practicalities because I think Herb addresses
that very well but you really should take a look at what
parkland in this town constitutes. It constitutes unpaid
taxes where the County ends up with the lot or it becomes the
dumping ground for grass clippings. I don't think you've got a
park in Southold anywhere. I would love to see a survey of
every subdivision that has a private park and I want to see what
condition those lots are in. Balance that with the affordable
housing and as you requested the amendment that was to eliminate
those four lots and redraw them into parkland, I submit to you
is an elimination of lots, two affordable housing lots, I think
in balance ~ou ought to opt for affordable housing. You have
half acre lots. If we were doing town houses, Herb says, row
upon row upon row, with no grass and no space around these
places I would say yeah, there is a problem there. We've
created one hell of a density, we haven't done that. Balance
the needs, this community needs affordable housing. If we had
twenty- eight families on that list here tonight and we said
PLANNING BOARD 19 JANUARY 18, 1990
yeah we'll go along with and eliminate those lots, there was
twenty eight or twenty seven in here that would be told sorry,
look at the nice little park to play in. You wait for the next
affordable housing project. In balance, I don't think parks are
bad or parks are wrong. They haven't worked in this town at
least from what we've been able to tell but in balance you get
two more affordable lots there and the time spent. We are
really arguing with Greenport on a minor issue which has become
a big issue between Mr. Mandel and the Village. Both are
standing with their arms folded being very strong in their
opinions about it. We come in with a map from this town saying
yes, final plat approval, we have a check given to them, run to
their account so fast their head would spin. It's chicken or
egg, who comes first, water contract or the map? That is what
we're spinning around with Greenport right now. That's it.
Mr. Mandel: Everybody has an idea what they mean when they
say the word park, but many people's ideas are different. One
is thinking of a baseball field, another one is thinking of
child's swings and other forms of children's play areas. Your
word park doesn't carry a definition. It doesn't say that the
ground shall be grass or that it shall be paved. It doesn't say
that there should be swings or there should be fences. It
doesn't give any detail to what kind of a park is it that you
are talking about? You yourself have no definition, you have no
standards. I think that in itself is not even legal. You're
suppose to have standards when you ask somebody to do something
like put in a park. Is it for young children or for adults or
for who? The Town Board went ahead and hired somebody to give
them an appraisal for the value of the land so they could tell
you how much money to get in lieu of a park but I haven't heard
anybody mention in lieu of a park. We're not adversed to
giving you some money, we're adversed to changing our maps which
we think are properly done for the people we want to breach. We
want to reach those that need affordable housing and that is
what this whole thing is about.
Mr. Latham: Mr. Mandel, that is the only reason I want the
park and playgound because it is affordable. If it wasn't
affordable, it wouldn't mean anything to me. Affordable housing
in the town is a new thing isn't it? We hope this property will
be used as we feel it should be used and I believe it will be.
Mr. Mandel: Mr. Latham, the people who want these houses,
stood in line to give us money, threw it at us and said give us
number one, number two. We have fifty applications, they are
very anxious to get in here. We're giving away the land at the
Southold's price. This is not a matter of our not being willing
to give something. You know for a builder to try to do a
housing job of this type, to set it up is not an inexpensive
thing to do. He can make much more money going the easy way.
We could put in sixteen luxury two acre lots, you wouldn't ask
us to do a park and you didn't ask us to do a park and that is
something you'll have to take into consideration. We are not
PLANNING BOARD 20 JANUARY 18, 1990
going to change this map and put in a park for anyone. We're
willing to put up the money and we're not to change the map.
Mr. Latham: If it wasn't affordable, that would be another
thing.
Mr. Kevin Flynn: I'm a prospective owner. Why is Yennecott
dictating to us what is going on our affordable housing?
Obviously, that's what it is. This thing was passed up and all
of a sudden it was going to be cash and blew apart. Now all of
a sudden at the latest stage of the game after these letter come
in. I would much rather have a lot than not have a lot and see
some people over there have their park. I grew up out here and
no we didn't grow up on a half acre lot we grew up on an acre
lot and we found plenty of room to play around on that lot. I
don't think there is anybody in here that is running around with
a two acre lot next to their house. I mean you've got the
school, you've got everything and your backyard whatever, I mean
I don't see this as a sticking point. I see th~ big issue being
lets get some affordable housing. Not a, play games over two of
land and a park that no one is going to use. I mean a, what is
this. It looked like it was going too fast from the beginning
so I guess it was so let's either turn it down or what other
public info is going to come into this that is going to make a
difference? Obviously, yeah, you brought up a great point there
is no water, a great sticking point. We need the water, but
what public input now? Why not close the public hearing and as
Mr. Mandel said, say O.K. if you get your water plan approved
and this is what we have been going on all along and now all of
a sudden it's all up in the air.
Mr. Orlowski: The problem with closing the hearing is we have
45 days to make a decision and it seems there is a suit with
Greenport and we don't want to lock ourselves into this 45 day
period after we close the hearing to make a decision and then
find ourselves having to deny this project. We don't want to
deny the project. We want this project to go. We want it to go
with fifty-six lots. We looked at the map carefully and we
think it can be changed. We don't want the money, we want the
park and playground in lieu of the money. You can take the
money and change the maps, I don't care what it is and the money
that is left over can go to making the other lots less
expensive, I don't care.
Mr. Flynn: What precipitated the change at this point and
time?
Mr. Orlowski: It was brought up at a public hearing and that's
why we have public hearings.
Mr. Flynn: Prior to that there was no indication that that
was a concern.
PLANNING BOARD 21 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: It was a concern and it was a concern around
preliminary but there was confusion here on the Housing
Committee and the Planning Board that we went through
preliminary hearing and allowed it to pass but in the final it
was brought up again very strongly and we were talking about the
health and welfare and place for the children to play. If I
thought we were stealing lots from this subdivision and it
couldn't be done we would really consider it but this board is
very confident that we can do both here and you can move into a
subdivision where everybody is happy including the people that
surround you.
Mr. Flynn: That's easy to say if you sit in a house paid for
but I've been renting out here and have been waiting to get a
house. This is all plenty good now but it just doesn't
seem it. Mr. Mandel, it seems like the only thing holding
them up right now is you can't get the maps signed off.
Greenport says yes fine, we'll give you the thing as soon as its
signed off and it"s a catch twenty-two.
Mr. Orlowski: That is a catch twenty-two.
Gait Rast: Can I say something, I'm also on the list. If
you're so concerned about the twenty-eight people moving into
these homes why don't you go by what the twenty-eight people
moving in really want. Most of these families have very small
children and I don't know too many parents who want to send
their children five blocks away in a subdivision to a playground
unsupervised when they have a one-half acre backyard that they
can keep their-children home and their friends can play at their
house. You're not on a sixty by one-hundred lot, you have a
decent backyard in a nice community. The kids can ride their
bikes around and it is not a main road so why hold these people
up? Why hold them up? This could go on for another year by the
time you do the maps. You're going to lose the young people in
Southold, I'm telling you right now and you're not talking
mainly about people with teenagers, you're talking shout people
with small children and they are not going to send two year old
or three year olds, four year olds off to some playground.
They are going to keep them home in their own backyard and they
are right. If you look at all the playgrounds that are in
existence, you don't even see young children playing at the
schoOl playgrounds. They play at their friends house or they
play home and if they are older they are in after school
activities at the school, their in sports, their doinq other
things. If you just want it to estheticall¥ look nicer, that's
great but I think it is more important to p~ovide housing for
these people and the sooner the better. It would take nothing
for you to approve this map pending a water contract tonight and
that is what you should do if you have any conscience at all
about the people desperately in need of homes and a one-half
acre anyplace else is a very wealthy, wealthy lot, a very
wealthy place to live. You are very fortunate that there is a
lot of land out here so you think a half acre is a small lot.
PLANNING BOARD 22 JANUARY 18, 1990
It is not. It is a very nice piece of land and you can have a
lovely home for a young couple and their children. I think it
is time you did something. You can't just sit there and listen
to every letter that comes in. I realize that you have to do
that but you have to come to a point where you have to make a
decision. You have to make the right decision and the right
decision is to pass this tonight pending a water contract.
People can't keep waiting for this. It is going along long
enough. I'm sorry, that's how I feel and I'm very emotional
about this. There are a lot of people desperately in need of
these homes including myself. Hardworking people in the
community with small children and they will be very happy to
keep them home in their own baCkyard. Ask them where they want
their children to be and then you'll see if you really need this
park. Thank you.
Eileen Kreeling: I am also an applicant and I have a five
year old son and a two year old son. I would not allow my
children to go up to a park and playground. They would play in
my yard as they have and as they probably will until they're big
enough to be as Gail says until their after school in their
activities and doing things like that. I live on Young's
Avenue, two houses from the park, I don't let my children play
in the park because they have the yard. Their swing set is
there, their toys are there, their friends: are there and I can
tell you that the people who use that park are few and far
between. I rarely see any children in the park and if I do I
see kids riding their bikes around the gazebo out there and
hopping through it and that is the extent that the park is used
except in the summer time when the kids hang out there at
night. Now, if you're going to put that into the community
that's what's going to happen to it because the kids at home and
that's it with their parents watching them, with their friends
where they belong and I would much prefer to have a home that I
can raise my children in this town because I have been here my
whole life then have to leave because there is a parkland
designated and the whole thing goes down the tubes. I really,
really, wish you would consider approving the map as Gail said
and everyone else said pending the water because we wait and we
wait and we wait and we shuffled under everytime. It is just
getting ridiculous and it's time for people to remember that
there are young people in this town who can't afford to live
here anymore. It has just gotten completely out of our league~
A whole generation is going to go by.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments?
Cliff Goldsmith: I'm also an applicant. I think I can speak
from two different perspectives. I also lived on Boisseau
Avenue all of my life so that development is going to be right
behind where I grew up. I don't think the people neighboring
them would mind the same type of people coming in and living on
half acre lots because that is what it is half acre lots on
Boisseau Avenue and we don't have parks and we played all of
PLANNING BOARD 23 JANUARY 18, 1990
our lives on half acre lots all up and down that neighborhood
and we didn't have a park and we don't need a park. We want
houses so I don't think it is the neighbors that really are
holding this thing up.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments?
Mr. Young: I would just like to make a comment. After a public
hearing on a final map the Planning Board has three options. To
approve a subdivision map, to disapprove a subdivision map or
approve a subdivision map with modifications and conditional
approvals are granted by any Planning Board or all Planning
Board's at all times with such things as water or any other
reasons. The other coi~u~ent I would like to make is that I just
recently took what was a park in Mattituck which was shown on a
subdivision map that I did some years ago which the County took
the taxes. SOuthold is turning it back and trying to do
affordable housing project for the Town of $outhold on a piece
of parkland. Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments? Any comments from the board?
Mr. Ward: Just the fact that the 45 days are a problem.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Board: No further questions.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, as far as the park and playground goes I
would like to see you work on changing the maps, I think the
water is a problem now because we don't have the contracts and
it appears to be you are in some litigation with Greenport over
it. We're going to hold the hearing open and I'll entertain a
motion to hold the hearing open and go from there.
Mr. Edwards: The reason we want to hold it open is we don't
want to get locked into that 45 day period.
Mr. Young: The town law says you have 45 days to act and you
are trying to get some more time.
Mr. Latham: I'll second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Isreal: Are you waiting for the water contract or are you
waiting for everything?
PLANNING BOARD 24 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: We're waiting for the changing of the maps and
the water contracts.
Mr. Young: You can't change the map after a public hearing.
Mr. Orlowski: It's not after a public hearing, it's still
open. Can I ask you a question? Can you draw a park in it, in
fifty- six lots?
Mr. Young: I can draw anything, I'm very talented.
Mr. Orlowski: Then you answered our question.
Mr. Orlowski: Too Bee Realty - This minor subdivision is on
7.956 acres located at Southold. SCTM ~1000-50.6.5.
Mr. Orlowski: I'll ask if there are any comments?
Mr. Bressler: The board will recall that this matter was
continued from the last meeting of the public hearing and the
board was requesting that maps be prepared showing the wetlands
area staked. Unfortunately, we are unable at this time to
produce those maps. We ask that the matter be put over to the
next available date. I will also note in passing that they are
based upon preliminary review. We do not accept the proposition
that there are in fact bonified viable wetlands on this parcel.
At the time of the next meeting we will be prepared to speak on
that issue and hopefully the hearing at that time will be closed.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, should he address any of that to
the Trustees since they've made the determination that there are
wetlands on there?
Mr. Orlowski: Will you be prepared to address the Trustees on
that since they are the ones that have brought it up to question.
Mr. Bressler: I don't believe that the matter is properly
before the Trustees in fact, as I indicated to the board the
last time that there was a Negative Declarationon this parcel
and I don't believe that we are properly, jurisdictionally
before the Trustees on any matter. We are before you people, we
got a Negative Declaration from you and we all know how this
problem arose as a result of what we believe was self help with
respect to the dam there is a problem that was afflicted upon us
and there was a Negative Declaration and we know this didn't
exist as late as a year ago and we are prepared to address it to
you before the Planning Board with hearing comments from anybody
and that there are no viable wetlands on that parcel and I'm
PLANNING BOARD 25 JANUARY 18 , 1990
going to ask you to make that decision, close the hearing and
decide.
Mr. McDonald: The Trustee's indicated on an observation that
they thought that this was a wetlands of long standing and as
they are the Town experts on wetlands, I don't know what
position that puts the Town Board in.
Mr. Bressler: Have they rendered a written report?
Mr. McDonald: I believe we have a letter in th~ file to that
affect.
Mr. Edwards: We read it at the last meeting.
Mr. Bressler: Well, that's worth exactly what it is worth and
that's in your file. At the next meeting we will be prepared
with maps and we will be prepared to address you on that issue.
After all it's three years working on this project we are not
going to start the regulatory process all over again as a result
of some interloper going out and chopping a hole in the dike.
If these wetlands were of long standing, duration, then surely
there would not have been a Negative Declaration and I think
those facts speak for themselves.
Mr. Orlowski: I think once you designate the wetlands that
there shouldn't be any problem even if we ask the Trustees for
their input I'm sure that they would have to coincide with what
you have to do in changing those maps.
Mr. Bressler: I hope so.
Mr. Bagley: I'm neither a lawyer or a land planner. If we
were going to lose in this issue and I use a layman's term,
because of the law, I could accept that. If we're going to lose
because of market conditions, I could accept that becaus~ I have
on occasions. I can't abide a situation where we are being
impacted so negatively by the act of what I consider a criminal
and to have jurisdictional bodies such as yourself or the
TrUstee's or the Town Board or whatever, in effeCt give credence
and credibility to this act. I think it really goes beyond this
particular piece of land because what you are setting up is
you're setting up a preoedent where somebody can come in, do an
illegal act and walk away with all the chips. It's wrong and
most things in life are either right or wrong and this is wrong
and I'm going to fight it because it's just wrong. Thank you
very much.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K. well, we'll wait for the maps and I'll
entertain a motion to keep this hearing open and also I will
request the standard C & R'sfor no further subdivision in
perpetuity and I would like to have lots one and two exit onto
Lighthouse Road but off of the right-of-way only. I don't think
PLANNING BOARD 26 JANUARY 18, 1990
that is a major problem. Motion made and seconded. Any
questions on the motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: North Road Associates This minor subdivision
is on 16.886 acres located at Orient. SCTM $1000-18-4-1. I'll
ask if there are any comments or questions on this?
Mr. Orlowski: We're waiting for Suffolk County's Planning
Commission's review.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Setting of Final Hearings:
Mr. Orlowski: Doris Price Moeller Foster - This minor
subdivision is on 8.5 acres located at Cutchogue.
SCTM $ 1000-103-9-13.
Mr. Ward: I would like to make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted:
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Tuesday,
February 13, 1990 at 7:35 p.m. for a final public hearing on the
maps dated November 1, 1989. This minor subdivision is for
three lots on 8 1/2 acres located on the west side of Little
Neck Road; 545.15 feet south of Wilson Road, in Cutchogue.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 27 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: Albert and Susan K. Stickney - This lot
line change is located on Fishers Island.
SCTM ~ 1000-9-6-8.2 & 8.6.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that
the following resolution be adopted.
RESOLVED that Southold Town Planning Board set Tuesday,
February 13, 1990 at 7:40 p.m. for a final public hearing on the
maps dated September 21, 1989. This lot line change is located
on Fishers Island.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
notion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Lorraine Terry - This minor subdivision is for
four lots on 12.823 acres in Orient.
SCTM ~ 1000-18-15-18.1.
Mr. Edwards: I would like to make the following resolution to
be adopted.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Tuesday
February 13, 1990 at 7:45 p.m. for a final public hearing on the
maps dated April 19,1989. This subdivision is for four lots on
12.823 acres located in Orient.
Mr. McDonald. Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards,
Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Major's Terrace - This minor subdivision is for
two lots on 13.87 acres located on the southwest corner of King
Street and Douglas Street, Orient.
SCTM $1000-16-1-42.
Mr. Latham: I would like to offer the following resolution.
PLANNING BOARD 28 JANUARY 18, 1990
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Tuesday,
February 13, 1990 at 7:55 p.m. for a final public hearing on the
maps dated September 27, 1989. This minor subdivision is for
two lots on 13.87 acres located on the southwest co~ner of King
Street and Douglas Street in Orient.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questl ons on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Ortowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Thompson/Dickinson - This set off on the
southeast corner of Main Bayview Road and Cedar Drive in
Southold. SCTM ~ 1000-78-0-30.1 & 30.2.
Mr. Ward: I would like to make the following motion:
RESOLVED that Southold Town Planning Board set Tuesday,
February 13, 1990 at 7:50 p.m. for a final public hearing on the
maps dated August 17, 1989. This set-off is located on Main
Bayview Road and Cedar Drive in Southold.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski,
Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Sketch Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: East Coast This major subdivision is for five
lots on 10.806 acres located on the north west side of Alvah's
Lane 113 feet north west of County Road 48 in Cutchogue.
SCTM $ 1000-i-16.1.
Mr. Edwards: I would like to entertain the following resolution
to be adopted:
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Plan~ing Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated March 30, 1989 withthe following
conditions:
1. A one-hundred (100) foot scenic easement
PLANNING BOARD 29 JANUARY 18, 1990
along Alvah's Lane and also along the back
property line.
2. A one-hundred fifty (150) foot building setback
all lots. Building envelopes must be shown
for all lots.
3. Common driveways.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Dorothy M. Russell This minor subdivision is
for two lots on 2.22 acres located--on Heathvlie Avenue and
Beach Avenue, Fishers Island.
SCTM ~ 1000-9-11-9.1.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that
the following resolution be adopted:
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated August 3, 1988.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham.
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Elizabeth F. McC&nce - This minor subdivision
is for four lots on 4.739 acres located on the southeast side of
Fox Avenue in Fishers Island. SCTM %1000-6-5-3,5,12.
Mr. Latham: I would like to make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted:
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated March 13, 1989 with the following
condition:
1. Due to the fact that this subdivision involves
pre-existing dwelling units with inadequate
PLANNING BOARD 30 JANUARY 18, 1990
road frontage, the access to Lot No. 3 is to
be shown as an easement over Lot No. 1. The
right-of-way is not to be a separate parcel
as currently shown.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: George J. Wells - This minor subdivision is for
three lots on 28.653 acres located on the west side of South
Harbor Road 1248.26 feet south of Main Road in Southold
SCTM $1000-75-7-1.3, 1.4,1.5
Mr. Ward: I would like to make the following motion:
RESOLVED that the Southotd Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated April 28, 1989.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ortowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham,
Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Thompson/Dickinson - This set off is on the
south east corner of Main Bayview and Cedar Drive in Southold.
SCTM ~ 1000-78-9-30.1 & 30.2.
Mr. Edwards: I would like to make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted:
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated August 17, 1989 with the following
conditions:
1. Scale of the map must be 1" = 100' and key map must be
1" = 500'
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald,
PLANNING BOARD 31 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Birndorf/Rizzo - This major subdivision is
for four lots on 9.111 acres located in Cutchogue.
SCTM 1000-97-3-1.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make the following
motion:
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated January 12, 1990.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Fred Terry Est. - This set off of 80.882 square
foot parcel from 47.554 acres located in Orient.
SCTM ~1000-19-1-8.
Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion that
the following resolution be adopted:
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch
approval on the map dated November 29, 1989 with the following
conditions:
1. Building envelope to be shown on parcel to be
set-off. Front yard to face fifty foot right-
of-way.
2. Fifty foot right of way to terminate at southern
line of parcel to be set off (Lot ~2).
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. OrloWski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 32 JANUARY 18, 1990
****************************************
Sketch Extensions:
Mr. Orlowski: Henry Rutkowski - This minor subdivision is
for two lots located onthe westerly side of Middle Road,
County Road 48, 356.04 feet southerly from Wickham Avenue in
Mattituck.
SCTM 91000-108-1-2.
Mr. Edwards: I would like to make the following motion:
RESOLVED that the Southold town Planning Board grant a six
month extension of sketch approval from December 5, 1989 to June
5, 1990.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr, Latham,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Review of Reports:
Mr. Orlowski: Albert and Susa~ Stickne¥ - This lot line
change is located on Fishers Ilsland.
SCTM ~1000-9-6-8.1 & 8.6.
Mr. Ward: I would like to recDmmend that the following
resolution be adopted:.
RESOLVED to adopt the following from the January 5, 1990,
Suffolk County Planning Co~m~ission report (numbers correspond to
numbers in report):
1. Is to remain as written.
2. Is to be omitted° T~e Planning Board has received
revised deeds which incorporate parcel 1 and parcel 2
into one parcel.
3.Is to remain as written.
4, 5 & 6 Are to be omitted. The application before the
board is for a lot l~ne change, not a subdivision.
No new dwelling units are proposed.
7. Is to be revised to read: These covenants and
restrictions can be modified only at the request
of the then owner of the premises with the approval
of a majority plus one of the Planning Board of the
Town of Southold aftsr a public hearing. Adjoining
property owners shall be entitled to notice of such
public hearing but their consent to such modifications
PLANNING BOARD 33 JANUARY 18, 1990
shall not be required.
To remain as written with the addition that the
Liber and Page number of the filed document be
included on the final map.
Numbers 1 and 3 must be presented in a
Declaration of Covenants and
Restrictions in proper legal form.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski,
Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Major's Terrace - This minor subdivision is
located on the westerly corner of King Street and Douglass
Street at Orient. SCTM $1000-26-2-42.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted.
RESOLVED to adopt the following from the January 5, 1990,
Suffolk County Planning Commission report (numbers correspond to
numbers in report):
1. Is to be revised to read: No lot line shall be
changed in any manner at any future date unless
authorized by the Town of Southold Planning Board.
An additional item should be added as follows: There
shall be no further subdivision in perpetuity.
2. Is to be omitted, the Planning Board requested no
further subdivision in perpetuity.
3, 4, 5, 6 & 7 are to remain as written.
8. Should be revised to read: These Covenants and
Restrictions can be modified only at the request of
the then owner of the premises with the approval
of a majority plus one of the Planning Board
of the Town of Southold after a public hearing.
Adjoining property owners shall e entitled to
notice of such public hearing but their consent
to such modification shall not be required.
9. Is to remain as written with the addition that the
Liber and Page number of the filed document be
included on the final map.
PLANNING BOARD 34 JANUARY 18, 1990
Numbers 1, 4, 5, 6, 8 and the additional item must be
presented in a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions in
proper legal form.
Numbers 3 and 9 must be shown on the final map.
Number 7 must be suJomitted to this office.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards
Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: William Molchan - This minor subdivision is
for two lots on 5.144 acres located on the north side of Ruth
Road opposite Sunset Drive in Mattituck. SCTM $1000-106-1-3.
Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted.
RESOLVED to adopt the following from the January 5, 1990,
Suffolk County Planning Commission report (numbers correspond
to numbers in report):
1. Is to be revised to read: No lot line shall be
changed in any manner at any future date unless
authorized by the Town of Southold Planning Board.
An additional item should be added as follows: There
shall be no further subdivision in perpetuity.
2. Is to remain as written.
e
Is to be omitted, the Planning Board requested no
further subdivision in perpetuity.
4, 5, 6, & 7 are to remain as written.
That the subdivider shall acknowledge in writing to
the Town Planning Board that the creation of this
subdivision in no way commits either the Town of
Southold or the County of Suffolk to any program to
protect this property from shoreline erosion through
the construction of engineering or other works.
e
Is 5o be revised to read: These Covenants and
Restrictions can be modified only at the request of
the then owner of the premises with the approval of a
PLANNING BOARD 35 JANUARY 18, 1990
majority plus one of the Planning Board of the Town
of Southold after a public hearing. Adjoining
property owners shall be entitled to notice of such
public hearing but their consent to such modifications
shall not be required.
10.
To remain as written, with the addition that the Liber
and Page number of the filed document be included on
the final map.
Numbers 1 - 7 and the additional item must be presented in
a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions in proper legal
form.
Number 10 must be shown on the final map.
Number 8 must be submitted to this office.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Anyquestions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Laths/u,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Robert Graeb and Ph¥1is Graeb - This
major subdivision is for four lots on 10.25 acres located on the
north side County Road 48; 900 feet east of Cox's Lane.
SCTM $1000-84-1-10.
Mr. Ward: I would like to make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted.
RESOLVED to override the January 5, 1990 Suffolk County
Planning Commission report for the following reasons (numbers
correspond to numbers in report):
The Planning Board has required a road built to
the alternate road specifications to provide access
to all proposed lots.
2. Proper drainage to contain all on-site stormwater
has been required by the Planning Board.
3. A road will be built as described in number 1.
The applicant pre-empted the Planning Board's action
by building a greenhouse on the parcel, and scraping
the top soil from the site. Thus, the agricultural
value of the site in questionable.
PLANNING BOARD 36 JANUARY 18, 1990
5. The Planning Board will be requiring a statement as
to the location of the nearby landfill.
The Planning Board requests that the following notations be
placed on the final map.
1. The parcel is located near an existing landfill site.
2. The parcel is located near an existing gun club.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski
Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Lead Agency Coordination:
Mr. Orlowski: East Coast - SCTM $1000-101-1-16.1
Mr. Latham: I would like to make a motion that the following
Resolution be adopted.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. TheBoard assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham , Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Dorothy Mr. Russell - SCTM $1000-9-11-9.1.
Mr. Edwards: I would like to offer the following resolution.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The board assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
PLANNING BOARD 37 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Elizabeth McCance - SCTM $1000-6-5-3, 5, 12.
Mr. McDonald: I recommend that the following resolution be
adopted.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The Board
assuages lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ortowski,
Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: George J. Wells - SCTM ~1000-75-7-1.3, 1.4, 1.5
Mr. Latham: I make a motion that the following resolution be
adopted.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The Board assumes
lead agency status and in the capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes; Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham , Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Ortowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PLANNING BOARD 38 JANUARY 18, 1990
****************************************
Mr. Orlowski: Fred Terry Estate - SCTM 91000-19-1-8.
Mr. Latham: I make a motion that the following resolution be
adopted.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start th
coordination process on this unlisted action. The Board assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Birndorf/Rizzo - SCTM ~ 1000-97-3-1
Mr. Ward: I make a motion that the following resolution be
adopted.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the
coordination process on this unlisted action. The Board assumes
lead agency status and in that capacity makes an initial
determination of non-significance.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Determinations:
Mr. orlowski: Marion Robins - This minor subdivision is on
6.039 acres located at East Cutchogue.
SCTM ~1000-I03-10-2.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted.
PLANNING BOARD 39 JANUARY 18, 1990
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a
determination on non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Doris Price Moeller Foster - This minor
subdivision is on 8.5 acres located at Cutchogue.
SCTM ~ 1000-103-9-13.
Mr. Ward: I would like to recommend that the following
resolution be adopted.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a
determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr~ Ward,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: John Wickham - This minor subdivision is for
two lots on 10.55 acres located in Cutchogue.
SCTM ~ 1000-110-8-21.1.
Mr. Edwards: I would like to offer the following resolution.
RESOLVED that the Planning Board amend their resolution of
December 18, 1989 which started the coordination process to
determine lead agent and environmental significance.
In that resolution the Planning Board listed the SEQRA
status as unlisted, however the project is in the Peconic Bay
Critical Environmental Area, thus it must be listed as a Type I
SEQRA classification.
PLANNING BOARD 40 JANUARY 18, 1990
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a
determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards,
Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Just for the record the Planning Board has
received correspondence from New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation and a NYS Title Wetlands Permit is
required and the applicant has been notified in writing for the
need of a Title Wetlands Permit.
Mr. Orlowski: Thompson/Dickinson - This set off is on the
south east corner of Main Bayview and Cedar Drive in Southold.
SCTM ~100-78-9-30.1 & 30.2.
Mr. Latham: RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board,
acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act do an
Uncoordinated Review, take, Lead Agency, and in that capacity
make a determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Lead kgency Coordination:
Mr. Orlowski: Peconic Bay Vineyards - This site plan is for a
winery to be located in an existing building in Cutchoque.
SCTM ~1000-103-1-19.2.
Mr. Ward: I would like to offer the following resolution.
PLANNING BOARD 41 JANUARY 18, 1990
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act do an
Uncoordinated Review, take Lead Agency and in that capacity make
a determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Dorothy L. Robertson - Board to review the
request for an extension of final approval.
SCTM 91000-13-i-10.
Mr. Latham: I would like to make a motion that the following
resolution be adopted.
RESOLVED that the Planning Board in accordance with its
powers under Section A106-50 of its Subdivision Regulations,
extended the thirty day period for filing the approved final
subdivision map of Dorothy L. Robertson to sixty which is in
conformance with New York State Town Law, Article 16, Section
276, Subsection 7.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So moved.
Mr. Orlowski: I have nothing left on my agenda. Any questions
from the board?
Mr. Steve Perricone: I wasn't here earlier for the affordable
housing thing. I don't know what happened but all I hear out in
the hall that you people want a park in there now. I think that
is absolutely ridiculous for affordable housing. It makes the
cost prohibitive to begin with and not only that it is going to
set this project from what I understand about eight or nine
months, maybe ten months. We need affordable housing now. In
PLANNING BOARD 42 JANUARY 18~ 1990
fact, we needed it two years ago. I don't know why you people
are dragging your feet on this thing but somebody has got to
make a decision and the decision should be made now. I don't
know whether you people realize it or not but these young people
in this town need affordable housing and we need them. When are
you people going to approve this affordable housing?
Mr. Orlowski: I'm not going to sit and talk about it again, I
wish you were here during the whole thing.
Mr. Perricone: You don't have to sit here and talk to me at
all about it but I can tell you right now that we need it and if
I have to see that we get it, I'm going to see that we get it.
What do you want?
Mr. Orlowski: We want to see a map with the park and playground
and it can be drawn.
Mr. Perricone: You don't need a park. It is as simple as
that. It adds to the expense of the affordable housing which
makes it unaffordable. You want new drawings and the drawings
are going to cost X amount of dollars. I'm a developer and I
know what it is going to cost so when are we going to do this?
When are you people going to get off your duff and approve
this affordable housing.
Mr. Orlowski: As soon as he does what we ask and I think you
are totally unfamiliar with this.
Mr. Perricone:
you.
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Perricone:
You're being unreasonable, you know that don't
No, I don't think so.
Oh, yes I think you are. In fact, not only I
think you are, everyone in Town thinks you are.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, the twenty-eight people who want those lots
probably do.
Mr. Perricone: No, I can tell you almost everyone in Town
thinks you are. So when are we going to do this thing?
Mr. Orlowski: Let me say this. I don't think we are putting
any hardship on the gentlemen at all.
Mr. Perricone: I'm not talking about the gentlemen. I'm
talking about the people who need this.
Mr. Orlowski: We also do not have the water contracts, nor does
Mr. Mandel. The County has just filed a Article 78 against
Greenport which should give us more than enough time to be
drawing all kinds of maps for the next six months to a year. I
have no idea what is going on there. We are not ready to make
PLANNING BOARD 43 JANUARY 18, 1990
any decision or close this hearing or lock ourselves into 45
days which we will have to deny the application because he wants
to proceed with legal action against Greenport Village. O.K..
The change in the maps, I think can be done in the meantime, we
don't want his cash or his money for the park and playground.
Put it into changing the maps.
Mr. Perricone: I think you should forget about the cash and
money for the playgrounds.
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Perricone:
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Perricone:
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Perricone:
unaffordable.
We don't handle that part.
We need affordable housing.
That is right and we want it.
You people are making it unaffordable.
No.
Don't tell me No. You are making it
Mr. Latham: Howard Young just said he could do the maps.
Mr. Perricone: Of course he could do them, he would love to
do them. I would love to do them too if I was going to make
that kind of money on redoing the maps.
Mr. Ward: What we are asking for is a very minimal change to
those maps.
Mr. Perricone: From what I understand, No you are not.
Mr. Ward: Then you are being misrepresented.
Mr. Perricone: I don't know if I am being misrepresented or
not all I know is that it takes time.
Mr. Ward: I would assume that Howard could do it in a day.
Mr. Perricone: I doub't it very much.
Mr. Ward: If we were asking for something that was going to be
that big a change and make that kind of impact on a project.
Mr. Perricone: Why don't you just approve it?
Mr. Ward: Benny has been trying to tell you why.
Mr. Perricone: No, I don't want to hear why, I just want to
know why you don't just approve it and forget about this whole
thing and give these people what they need and give it to them
now. Don't laugh at me, we need it now, whether you know it or
PLANNING BOARD 44 JANUARY 18, 1990
not you need these people, but you don't know that. (inaudible
discussion between Mr. Perricone and member of the audience.)
Mr. Orlowski: I'm not going to let this go on any further. You
have totally misunderstood.
Mr. Perricone: No, I'm really getting upset about this
because I've been following this a long time and we need these
people.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, we do and we agree.
Mr. Perricone: When the hell are we going to give it to
them. You are dragging your feet Ben, you're dragging your feet.
Mr. Orlowski: Then why would Mr. Mandet sit here and file a
Article 78 against Greenport and hold up everything?
Mr. Perricone: He wants this done, he has no choices. Nobody
is giving him what he needs.
Mr. Orlowski: Greenport gave him the contract. He's not
signing it.
Mr. Perricone: You know the reason for that.
Mr. Orlowski: No I don't Steve and I want to straighten that
out.
Mr. Perricone: I'm just here to ask why you people are
dragging your feet? Why you haven't approved this yet and tell
you that we need it and get off your duff and do it.
Mr. Orlowski: You've never seen an application go so fast
through this board as that one has and maybe that is why we are
having a problem right now getting it done. This thing came in
in March.
Mr. Perricone: Why are you making them have a park? Why do
you want them to have a park?
Mr. Orlowski: For the welfare and safety of the people and the
children and the elderly in this subdivision.
Mr. Perricone: Benny, what subdiMision in this town has a
park that isn't overgrown that hasn't been used for a dump and
that hasn't been taken back in taxes?
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments?
Mr. Perricone: O.K., so we're not going to do nothing about
this again.
Mr. Orlowski: Yes, we did it. Howie Young said he can change
them.
PLANNING BOARD 45 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. Perricone: We need it now? Don't you people understand
what now means? Do you have any idea?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Latham: You're ~ot helping.
Mr. Perricone: I'm not helping, I'm trying to help.
Mr. Latham: Well, you're not. You are going over and over and
over it and we've heard it.
Mr. Perricone: I can see I'm talking to deaf ears.
Mr. Latham: If it wasn't an affordable housing project I
wouldn't but it is the first one in town and we don't know all
these things.
Mr. Perricone: Let me tell you something, if it was for the
senior citizens you would have done it months ago.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other questions?
Mr. Tom Flatter - I'm from Mattituck Saltaire Incorporated and
I'm here on their behalf regarding the Matthews subdivision in
Mattituck. That is tax'map number 1000-100-2.1. To give you a
little background, Mattituck Saltaire Incorporated is a group
of 46 home and lot owners. The group goes back approximately
twenty-three years to when Saltaire Estates was put together.
We happen to be the subdivision directly adjacent to where the
Planningl Board has.proposed putting the Matthews subdivision.
We areby far the most greatly affected by the Matthews project
and wehave got some major concerns regarding it. Back as far
as 1998 we sent several letters to you people and a major
petition went through the neighborhood. All of ~his as far as
we ca~ tell the letters went unanswered and everything seems to
be being ignored~. All of our concerns we saw results of the
additional planning process further encroaching ~n ourselves and
not addressing any of the problems we were talking about. Back
in November four members of the association met with Ms. $copaz
and unfortunately, to put it very simply, nothing even seemed to
come of that meeting. In a letter from Ms. Sc0Paz, we were
commended on our organizations keen interests in the community,
the fact that we took the time to review the files and to set up
a meeting to discuss our concerns. Unfortunately, our concerns
regarding the clustering to the North using Wavecrest Lane as
the southern most access to the development and continually
impacting further upon existing households has been totally
ignored. We're very, very concerned. I think if you check the
records we are one of the more successful homeowners
associations in the town. Recreational areas were discussed.
We have two recreational lots that we make a point of
maintaining. Broken down fences that were mentioned. We are
presently looking to replace right now.
PLANNING BOARD 46 JANUARY 18, 1990
Mr. Orlowski: I wish you stood up before.
Mr. Flatter: Yeah, I heard the whole thing out there before and
I had to laugh because I have seen a number of subdivisions with
recreational lots are drainage pits and so forth. The point is
that we are interested in our development and we are concerned
with what happens to us and nothing is being done. Regarding
the clustering to the North. Oh, by the way I would like to
back up for a moment. The association has no objections what so
ever to the development going in. The Matthews have every right
as far as we are concerned to develop the lOt. We have nothing
against that. We are just concerned about having ourselves
concerned a little bit in the planning process. I personally
don't know but I have been told there are wetlands situations on
the north end of the property. I have been told this by more
that one person. Possibly, the Town Trustees should have gotten
involved. I don't know. There is talk of a drainage swale at
the south end of the proposed lot and because of the swale
construction isn't desired down there. I have discussed this
with engineering people very, very, familiar with this type of
situation and they have assured me that just because there is a
swale there does not mean you can't do building down there. You
just avoid the swale area itself. Also, I question the
typographic map of the area. For all I know it could be twenty
years old and it certainly changes things. Wavecrest Lane is
desired southern most access to the proposed development.
Wavecrest Lane right now is an extremely quiet dead end street
with several kids on it and the whole Wavecrest Lane,
Saltaire Way combination of streets are dead quiet. We have a
recreational area on that street, a playground for the kids.
Children can go several hundred feet down that street and they
do all the time never worrying about cars, bicycling up and
down, roller skating up and down to the recreation area. What
is going to happen when Wavecrest Lane suddenly becomes an
access to all this. It is going to definitely change a nice
quiet situation that has been there for twenty three years, not
for three or four.
Mr. Orlowski: I would just like to make a comment on that. We
as planners look at a map and subdivision you will notice that
we put in a lot of dead end streets that end at adjoining
parcels. These are purposely designed that way to connect for
ingress and egress to any other further parcel that is to be
Subdivided.
Mr. Flatter: Yes, Ms. Scopaz explained that to us and that is
fine. We can understand you cutting that through, that's
logical. I noticed how somebody managed to avoid letting that
happen to a street further south. When lands were dedicated to
the county on farm preservation, that was very cute bywho ever
did that. The fact of the matter is there are alternatives to
Wavecrest Lane being the furthest south entrance. We feel
very strongly that a road should be cut through to, I believe it
is Mill Lane. There are alternatives and we feel very, very
PLANNING BOARD 47 JANUARY 18 , 1990
strongly about the Wavecrest Lane being the southern most
accessed. As far as we're concerned, it is a totally, totally,
unacceptable situation to the entire neighborhood. That is our
strongest feeling about this. We're wondering what is happened
over the past year and a half. Letters went unanswered.
Mr. Orlowski: We just received the revised preliminary maps and
the board has not even looked at them yet.
Mr. Flatter: I'm talking two ago or a year and a half ago when
this started. Originally, there was a buffer up next to the
houses backing up directly to the Matthews property. The buffer
was removed so you could put a little curve in the road to slow
things down. We did notice that there was no curve put in the
Wavecrest Lane extension to slow things down in that.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, you'll have your chance to make comment.
We have not reviewed the new maps but we will and they will be
in the file for the record and you can take a look at them.
Mr. Flatter: We look at it regularly but we have petitions in
there with several hundred signatures regarding all of this.
You've got the people directly adjacent to it complaining. I'm
wondering who is being concerned with all of this. Who is the
Planning Board worried about in this whole subdivision? We
can't figure that out.
Mr. Orlowski: We're worried about everyone and when we get to
preliminary hearing you will have your chance to make comment.
Mr. Flatter: I'm sure when we come to preliminary hearing there
will be discussions ~hout costs of changing maps and that is why
we brought it up in 1988. The moment we heard the subdivision
was being proposed and was being put through we contacted you
people. This isn't something we are bringing up at the last
minute and we are very, very concerned. Unfortunately, letters
have gone unanswered and our previous meeting went no where and
you are going to start hearing from us unfortunately.
Mr. Orlowski: That is quite all right and that is what the
public hearing process is all ~hout and if letters have gone
unanswered, I don't believe so and I don't know Valerie if you
know anything about these letters not being answered.
Mr. Scopaz: I believe that every letter that has come in has
been answered. I know of no letter that has not been answered.
Mr. Flatter: Excuse me, but that is not so.
Mr. Orlowski: If it is not so then you can stop into the office
and let us know which one has not been answered.
Ms. $copaz: The letter that was sent to you was the result of a
meeting.
PLANNING BOARD 48 JANUARY 18 , 1990
Mr. Flatter: That is correct, but I'm talking about two letters
that were sent by our association in 1988. I know there was at
least one and that there was a follow up because we hadn't
gotten a response° We've not talking one or two homeowners here
we're talking a whole group.
Mr. Orlowski: I know and that is like I said when we get to
where the preliminary maps are ready for a hearing that is when
we will listen and you can see that right to final hearing it
isn't over until it's over.
Mr. Flatter: I don't want to hear any remarks saying well it's
too late.
Mr. Orlowski: I don't think you can show us where we've
operated where it's been too late. We appreciate your concern
and all letters will be answered I can promise you that. If
there is a problem you can let me know personally.
Mr. Flatter: In regard to my one question, do you have any feel
what so ever how old the topographics are?
Mr. Orlowski: It is on the map somewhere.
Mr. Flatter: Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Any questions from the board?
Mr. Edwards: Yes, I have one in particular. I found out by
mistake today that the FIDCO maps which concern the whole
subdivision at the east end of Fishers Island had never been
filed with the County and I would like to request that they are
filed.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K. we will send out the proper notifications
and get that approved.
Mr. Edwards: I would also like to report that Fishers Island
100% Affordable Housing Project is well on its way. Four houses
are up, the street trees are in and people will be moving in in
three to four weeks.
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Ward?
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I think we should readdress the Town
Board regarding the affordable housing program in relation to
this seven year adventural turn over of full ownership to the
PLANNING BOAItD 49 JANUARY 18, 1990
property owner. In my opinion what we are doing is,
perpetuating that every year we are going to see developers
before us from here for the next thousand years creating
affordable lots. There are communities throughout the country
that have developed affordable housing programs where the equity
put in by the owner verses the equity of the Town are kept
separately and are maintained separately so that when a sale
comes up the person would receive what equity is in the home and
the Town would also receive their share so that it could remain
as an affordable housing program. I feel very strongly that we
should amend our code to provide for this but it will mean
additional administration on the Town's behalf but what I see
happening is potentially we're subdividing our entire hamlet
areas for affordable housing because we will never outgrow the
need for affordable housing.
Mr. Latham: I agree
Mr. Orlowski: I agree
Mr. Latham: How can we address the Town Board?
Mr. Ward: I think that these thoughts should be put into a memo
to the Town Board and what we can do then is give them the
background as to how other communities are addressing this.
Mr. Orlowski: We've talked about this before and I've talked to
Supervisor Harris and he agrees whole heartily and would be more
than willing to start the changes. Does the board have any
further comments?
Board: No.
Mr. Orlowski: Being there are no further comments or questions,
I will entertain a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mt.Ward,
Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered°
Being there was no further business, the meeting was adjourned
at 9:35 p.m..
Respectfully submitted,
PLANNING BOARD 50 JANUARY 18, 1990
Jane Rousseau
Temporary Secretary
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
~ soumo~,D ToM c~
Town Clerk, To~-n