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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/12/1991PLANNING BOARD 'MEMBERS Bennett Orlowski. Jr., Chairman George Ritchie Latham, Jr. Richard, G. Ward Mark S. M'eDonald Kenneth L. Edwards Telephone (516] 765-1938 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD SCOTI? L. HARRIS Supervisor Town Hall. 53095 Main Road P.O Box 1179 Southold. New York 11971 Fax (516/765-1823 SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD MINUTES AUGUST 12, 1991 Present were: Absent: Bennett Orlowski Jr., Chairman G. Richie Latham Richard Ward Mark McDonald Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner Melissa Spiro, Planner Holly Perrone, Secretary Kenneth Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would like to call this meeting to order. First order of business, I would like to set Monday, September 9th, 1991 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southotd as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Latham: So moved. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Hearing Held Over From The Previous Meetings: Mr. Or!owski: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3.748 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck .Lane in Mattituck. SCTM ~1000-113-8-5. Does anyone have PLANNING BOARD ~ ~ AUGUST 12, 1991 any questions or comments? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to keep this hearing open. Mr. Ward: So moved. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ortowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS: Final Extensions Mr. Orlowski: Baxter Sound Estates - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 5.022 acres located on the north side of Oregon Road; 1100 feet west of Bridge Lane in Cutchogue. SCTM ~ 1000-72-3-2.1 & 3. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a ninety (90) day extension of conditional final approval. conditional final approval was granted on February 25, 1991 and expires on August 25, 1991. The 90 day extension will expire on November 25, 1991 unless all conditions of approval have been fulfilled. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Preliminary Extensions Mr. Orlowski: S~m, it Estates - This major subdivision is for thirty-five lots on 40.8223 acres located on the southwest corner of Main Road, NYS 25 and Shipyard Lane in East Marion. ~ ~ ~LANNING BOARD 3 AUGUST 12, 1991 SCTM 91000-35-8-5.3. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six month (6) month extension of conditional preliminary approval from August 25, 1991 to February 25, 1992. Conditional preliminary approval was granted on February 25, 1991. Fir. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Setting of Final Hearings: Mr. Orlowski: Harry Hohn - This minor subdivision is for three lots on 7.368 acres located on the southwest corner of Aborn Lane and Nassau Point in Cutchoque. SCTM ~ 1000-118-6-1. Mr. Wagner: I have a few questions. We would like to set this down for a public hearing next month and we are in the process of preparing the final plat for that meeting so you will have sufficient time ahead of time to review it. Some questions have arisen as to the form the final plat should take. Number one, the Building Department has voiced the view that the building envelopes to be shown for the parcels should reflect R-80 zoning classification even though the property is zoned R-40. As I understand it, the basis for that opinion is that the lots are in access of two acres and to extend them the~ should have setbacks for two acre lots. I don't know what the basis for the opinion is, my preference would be to show R-40 setbacks on the final plat because that is in accordance with zoning and if the Board has a preference, otherwise from that I would like to hear it now and perhaps we can discuss it. Mr. Orlowski: I don't know where the Building Department is coming from on that one. It is up to this Board and it is R-40 down there. Mr. Ward: I think what we are after also, along with that is the simple fact of not showing the whole propert~ as a building envelope. If you are going to use the R-40 restraints for sidelines, the existing houses are fairly tight, that you show the intent of containing structures within this boundary and not ~ · PLANNING BOARD 4 AUGUST 12, 1991 use the whole parcel, so to speak, for a building envelope. That is where we are coming from. Mro Wagner: We certainly intend to apply with whatever requirements. Mr. Ward: So, if you stayed with the R-40 requirements and under those guidelines gave us that, we could probably approve them. As long as you weren't using the whole property in terms of the building envelope. Mr. 'Wagner: Alright, the only other question that comes up, I understand that there is some discussion of everything outside the building envelopes being covered by Conservation Easements on all of the lots. I've been thinking about this over the week-end, and while we certainly don't intend to put any buildings or structures that would be prohibited in those areas, having a Conservation Easement on them may be problematic, especially on the side of the lots that face the water. Conservation Easement is appropriate on lot %2 because we. are going to do that to try and add some non usable area for the undersized lot that was created for Hurley, back in the 60's. That is why the Conservation Easement is there. So there should be no use there except maintenance of the natural vegetation as provided for in the Covenants and Restrictions. But, on the Other lots, for example lot %3, there is a house on there that is facing out toward the water and I am concerned that a Conservation Easement may put to question whether the person residing on that lot could top the trees and thus protect their view out to the water. As the trees mature, the view will gradually disappear and I hate to be in that dilemma ten years from now, that we can't cut th~ trees or something like that. I think that maybe we should consider a little more of whether we want-Conservation Easements on all areas of the lots outside, of the building envelopes. Mr. Ward: Suggestion, take a look at the building envelopes including those areas that are of concern, and still leave the rest as a Conservation Easement. Mr. McDonald: I think our interest is on the other side. Your concerned on one side and we're concerned on the other side so I don't think thers is any problem as to what you are trying to achieve. Mr. Orlowski: Yes, we're not looking at the overall, the whole area of the Conservation Easement. Mr. McDonald: And we're particularly concerned about the area between the road and the houses which, is presently very heavily vegetated. Between Nassau Point Road and the houses as well.. That entire area. Between the houses and the water is already fairly cleared and we have no intention of trying to obstruct their ability to retain a view. PLANNING BOARD 5 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. Wagner: We're going to show it on the final copy also.The only other thing I would like to mention is that there has also been some discussion of a easement in favor of lot ~3 across lot ~2 and down to the beach. This is something that my client would like to do eventually. I don't think that now is the appropriate time however, before the subdivision goes through. The reason for that is you can't deed the lots out separately until he has the final subdivision approval. You can't do it legally and until the lots are placed in single and separate ownership, legally, I can't create an easement over one in favor of the other because I would be conveying these to myself and it just won't work. Either convey after the fact, an easement as the owner of lot ~2 or you can convey an easement to lot ~3 but, it has to be done after the separation and the title occurs. I would like to just leave that issue aside. Mr. Ward: I think the concern you were talking ~hout was for that lot to have some access to the water. Access has been granted elsewhere over adjourning property. Mr. Wagner: I don't know exactly what he wants to do. Right now, what we are talking about is having an easement over lot ~2 to the water and have a boardwalk of some kind across the pond. Mr. McDonald: I have a problem with the boardwalk over the pond. I have a serious problem with it. If you are proposing that or thinking about that I would like to see that on this plan now. What I would ask you to do though is, I understand the mechanics of your problem, but it would be very simple to put in the thing and say for future dedication 'as a right-of-way. It doesn't have to be done simultaneously, but indicate that area that you propose. We purposely, I think a lot of this has been done to try to preserve the pond in a state that makes it viable as a pond and a estheticallypleasing as well. But also, to protect the health of the pond. If you are proposing things like boardwalks over the pond, you better bring that before us now because, there is the matter of the. Trustees and there is the matter of the SEQRA processing this and that is a substantial change. Mr. Wagner: It is a very long ranged plan. I realize that when the time comes we will have to go to the Trustees and to the DEC because it is overlapping jurisdiction here and it is problematical eventually. We haven't quite decided what we are going to do there, whether we want to go across the pond or what to gO around the side of it. Mr. Ward: Take our comment on lot $3 regarding access to the water as a question, not as a mandate that you have to provide. Mr. Wagner: Thank you very much. Mr. Orlowski: What is the pleasure of the Board? PLANNING BOARD 6 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, September 9, 1991 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public hearing. Maps containing the Health Department's stamp of approval, and the revisions noted below, must be received by the hearing date, or the hearing will be cancelled. 1. The map must be presented at a scale of one inch equals 100 feet. 2. The dotted line shown across the pond must be eliminated. The potential driveway area for Lots $2 and $3 must be indicated. It must be noted that the actual clearing for the driveways is not tO exceed 16 feet in width. 4. Building envelopes are to be indicated for all lots. The dotted line indicating the conservation easement by the land now or formerly of Richard and Christopher Hurley and Nassau Point Road, is to be removed. It is to be noted on the map that all land located between the building envelopes and Nassau Point Road, other then that indicated as a building envelope, driveway or existing structure, is to be defined as a Conservation Easement. Maintenance of natural vegetation shall be the only activity allowed in the areas defined as Conservation Easements in keeping with the discussions that we have had at this meeting so far with their representative. In addition to the revisions mentioned ~bove, an easement may be granted to Lot $3 over Lot ~2 to provide Lot $3 with access to Peconic Bay. This easement could be included in either the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions, or the deeds for the particular lots, at the option of the Planning Board. Mr. Latham: I second that, Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mro Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. PLANNING BOARD 7 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. Orlowski: Harvey Ba~shaw and Parviz Faranzad - This proposed lot line change is to subtract 2.326 acres from a 4.686 acre parcel and add it to a 1.92 acre parcel in Mattituck. SCTM ~1000-122-6-31. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, September 9, 1991 at 7:35 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps received by the Board on July 2, 1991. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham~ Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Sketch Extensions Mro Orlowski: Jennie Harris Estate - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 49,604 squar~ feet located on the northwest side of County Road 48; 918 feet northwest ~f. Cox Lane in Cutchoque. SCTM ~1000-96-1-18. Mr. Latham: I will offer this resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a three month extension of sketch approval from Auqust 13, 1991 to November 13, 1991. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SITE PLANS Final Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: Suffolk Times News Review - This amended site plan is for an installation of a platform tennis court for use PLANNING BOARD 8 AUGUST 12, 1991 of employees located on Route 25 and Old Main Road in Mattituck. SCTM %1000-122-6-P/O 29. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review ACt, do an uncoordinated review of this unlistedaction. The Planning Board establishes itself as Lead Agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance and grants a Negative Declaration. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chaizm~n, I would like to make a further motion. WHEREAS, Troy and Joan Gustavson are the owners of the property known and designated as Suffolk Times News Review SCTM ~ 1000-122-6-P/O 29, located at Route 25 in Mattituck; and WHEREAS, a formal application for the approval of this site plan was submitted on July 16, 1991; and WHEREAS, the Southold ToWn Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on August 12, 1991; and WHEREAS, this site plan was certified by Victor Lessard, Principal Building Inspector on August 9, 1991; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Site Plan Requlations of the Town of Southold have been met; and be it therefore, RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and authorize the Chaizman to endorse the final survey dated July 25, 1991. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any qusstions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. PLANNING BOARD 9 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SITE PLANS STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Lead Agency: Mr. Orlowski: Oregon Road Recycling - Planning Board to start the environmental coordination for this proposal to develop a non-residential recycling and salvage facility property located on the south side of Oregon Road; 572.53 feet west of Cox's Lane, Cutchogue. The proposal is an Unlisted Action. The site is zoned Light Industrial. SCTM ~1000-83-3-4.5. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board has received a complete application, and hereby starts the coordination process on this proposal to develop a non-residential recycling and salvage facility in the Light Industrial Zone. This proposal has been determined to be an "Unlisted" action. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.~ Anyquestions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: Mr. McDonald: resolution. Bagshaw/Faranzad - SCTM $1000-122-6-31. Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this unlisted action. The Planning Board establishes itself as Lead Agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance and grants a Negative Declaration. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? PLANNING BOARD 10 AUGUST 12, 1991 Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, September 9, 1991 at 7:40 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps received by the Board on July 2, 1991. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Bidwell Vineyard - This proposed site plan is for a winery on a fourteen (14) acre parcel, located on Route 48 in Cutchoque. SCTM ~1000-96-4-4.3o Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes itself as Lead Agency, .and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants a Negative Declaration. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Suffolk Times New Review - Done already. Mr. OrlowSki: already. Suffolk Times News Review - Has been done PLANNING BOARD 11 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. Orlowski: There is nothing left on my agenda, does anyone have any comments or questions? Linda Fletcher: (Handed letters in paper bag to Chairman). Mr. Orlowski: Wait a minute, you've got everybody in the world sending me letters. Linda Fletcher: We've got a few more here. We brought them in an appropriate package. Mr. Orlowski: I don't accept anything in a paper bag. It's a McDonalds bag. Nancy S.: They are claiming they are great recyclers, well, you can't recycle brown paper bags and here is our Town's recycling program just to make a point, but there are letters in there for yo~. Mr. McDonald: Would you read them and give us a synopsis? Mr. Latham: Nancy, as of now commercial people don't have to recycle, they just dump everything in a container. You know that don't you? Commercial people in the Town of Southold restaurants and everything, they dump bottles, cans and everything with no sorting. Linda Fletcher: How do they get away with that? Mr. Latham: They were going to do it by the beginning of this summer. Linda Fletcher: I had to do it so why don't they have to do it? Mr. Latham: The general public is subsidizing the commercial people. Mr. Orlowski: Here's the Supervisor, ask him. Supervisor Harris: The restaurants as far as recycling, the first charge that.the waste committee management had after we passed residential was for commercial. The commercial Carters refusedto cooperate getting the commercial venture going because it was coming into the summer season and they said they were much too busy to try to implement that so we have to wait to the fall. Nancy: Are you going to do it? Supervisor Harris: Sure, right after Labor Day. They are the ones that really got us going on the recYCling. We have to PLANNING BOARD 12 AUGUST 12, 1991 thank them for getting this recycling going. My personal feeling is that it should have been passed the same time as residential. Mr. Orlowski: Thank you Mr. Supervisor for getting me out of that one and before I adjourn this meeting are there any other questions or comments out there? Supervisor Harris: I have the Horton's who have been working with the County of Suffolk to try to get into the farm program, the development rights program because as you know i~ is a water shed area and we submitted to the County a tax map number, I thought, and maybe it was done in error by the Town Board but we thought with the minor subdivision that was going to be approved for the Horton's, we submitted in the thirty acres and when they came out to do the survey they found it was still a forty five acre piece and now they are talking about rejecting that parcel. That parcel is very important to the Town of Southold because it is open space in the core watershed area and if there is anything that this Board can do, to expedite that minor before the County takes us off the priority list it would be appreciated. That's where we are with that right now. Mr. Horton: They were out evidentially and the one picking a right of way and as soon as they saw Jerry's house and the greenhouse. They don't want to know anything about it. Mr. McDonald: But they are not going to buy that property. They are going to buy a section of that property. Mr. Horton: A section, the greenhouse and Jerry's house. The way the map is right now, it is a 45 acre parcel all inclusive and what we submitted was basically a 30 acre parcel taking 15 acres out. Maybe it was an error because I thought that process was almost through this Board. Mr. McDonald: This project can proceed. I can have a meeting with Kevin within a week and we can try to put the thing back on track. I don't really see a problem with that aspect of it. Mr. Horton: Well, we have a problem with another aspect of it and our problem as it stands since when we changed the regulations on the roads on minor subdivisions. Mr. McDonald: There have been several changes. Mr. Horton: When did you go from' gravel to blacktop? It was the night of our final on the minor that you changed the specs. Our problem has been since 8~y one that we have not been able to afford to build three quarters of a mile of macadam road for one lot. Mr. Orlowski: It doesn't have to be macadam. PLANNING BOARD 13 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr~ Horton: That is what we understand. What does it have to be? Mr. Ward: Right now, it has to be to Town specifications. The question, that because of your density in there it could be a sixteen foot wide road. Mr. Horton: Right, but it has to be to Town specs. We cannot do it, we do not have the money. So the only other alternative for us which we have said from the beginning is to go off and do the major which we don't want to do. Supervisor Harris: The Town doesn't want to see them do a major either, the Town would like to see that thirty acres kept in open space. Mr. Horton: I don't want to do a major subdivision, but there I can prove it on paper where economically we can come out with our shirt on. But, for three quarters of a mile of macadam or Town spec road is prohibitively expensive and we've got a road down there that has been in use since the 40's. The Mattituck Fire Department used it very well the other day to put out a fire over there between Aldrich and our property and it is j~st as hard as a rock and everything. I'm not saying leave it like that, I would have gone for the bluestone or whatever. Mr. Ward: Just a question for you. Is the proposed road on the exact foot print of the existing? Mr. Horton: One piece of it is. Probably 80% of it is. Mr. Ward: O.K., just a suggestion that we could do is possibility we could have the Town Engineer see if the subbased is adequate as it is, then you are really talking about a asphalt overlay, and you could ~use a stone double seal coat instead of the asphalt. Mr. Horton: Why can't it be dirt? Supervisor Harris: The Town Boards position has been all along that if we can decrease the density in that area because of its SPGA designation and now CEA designation, which I understand was just implemented around Laurel Lake. It certainly would be beneficial to the people of Southold Town not only for today but for future years. We can keep that open space, thirty acres and allow a four lot minor in the remaining fifteen acres which I think is what is being requested as far as I understand. Mr. Horton: I'm building a house in Riverhead right now, a seven lot subdivision. We groomed the road, drive on it itts a farm road. Mr. Orlowski: What kind of road is it? PLANNING BOARD 14 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. Horton: A dirt farm road, absolutely nothing. Mr. Latham: In the dry summert you can drive anywhere. Mr. Horton: But, the three houses that are there already Mr. Latham, they've been there for fifty years. For fifty years, they have been using the same roads. Our roads ha~e been used since before the 40's. Mr. Orlowski: Well, we'll send the Town Engineer down to take a look at the road. Mr. Latham: Yes, let's take another look at the road. Mr. Horton: Understand one thing, we really do not want to do a major subdivision. I'm serious, we've been playing with this thing and we look at, and you know economically it is a big outlay for us if we do the major, without a doubt, but we feel we could come out on it. If we do put this road in according to specs that you have now, we can't come out with our shirt on. We'll go busted. We were suppose to keep the thing countrified, it's suppose to be country, isn't it? We want the place to be country but you want blacktop. Mr. Orlowski: Well, we set these specs down because there were a lot of questions and there are a lot of right-of-ways out there right now that the Fire Departments have gotten on our case about because of inaccessibility. Myhous.e burned down once already and they put it out, no problem. Supervisor Harris: Mr. Chairman, we have taken care of that on the Town Board level as you well know to make sure that there is accessibility for emergency equipment in this town now with new local legislation that we just enacted. Mr. Orlowski: That doesn't say anything about the road. Clearing, that's it. _Mr. Ward: About driveways really. Supervisor Harris: It is also right-of-ways and getting into areas. Mr. Orlowski: Well, we'll send the Engineer down and see what is there. If you are concerned about tearing down and digging down and putting the base in and the blacktop, I don't think you are looking at all that. I think that what you are looking at is not as big a bite as you think it is. Mr. Horton: Do you have any idea how much a road costs sixteen foot wide? Mr. Orlowski: No. PLANNING BOARD 15 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. McDonald: I think I would like to point out to you is that if you want relief from this the persen that can help you is there. We don't have the power to relieve the road specifications. I don't mean Scott can do it on his own, but the Town Board can. Supervisor Harris: I am here on behalf of the Town so if there is any way in your wisdom as a Board that you can look favorably. (Mr. Orlowski interrupted). If there is any way that this applicant can be helped with the problem that has arisen now with the County of Suffolk and our open space program which has gone through the Legislature. These properties have been submitted by the Town Board for inclusion. The first monies ever spent in the Town with a quarter percent sales tax money. Now we've got another road block in front of us now because no way are we going to look at this property because it is one big piece of property that includes the following structures. To me that is not progress, that is going backwards. We've worked too hard, all of us, including your own Board member, Mark McDonald to get properties included so that Southold Town does get back its share of its quarter percent sales tax money that has been contributed to Suffolk. Mr. Ortowski: I don't think that we have to worry ~hout that. with Mark on the Board. Mr. McDonald: If you can work out the details of this. Mr. Horton: Another thing you are not considering, the whole road, there is only one stranger that would use that road. In other words if we subdivide the minor, and we sell all the property, there will be one farm. I own one house, he ewns a house and the other people are already using the road so their is only one lot left. Everyone talking at once. Mr. Horton: There is only one lot available for sale. The rest of them all the people own the land. I not going to say I'm not going to sell my house ever, I would be crazy to say that but the person that buys my house, when he drives down to look at it he will understand he is driving down a dirt road. Mr. McDonald: There is code in the Town, building code and you can look at the Building Code in the Town and go gee, this part of it is done and that part of it is done and maybe those parts of it are done. But, we have the Building Code and part of that is to protect the next person and the person after that and the person after that. Now, I think that is part of the idea behind the road specs. I'm not saying that it is applicable in your case, but the reason they are there in general is because in general, they are useful. But for relief from this particular part of the Code, you need the approval of the Highway Superintendent and you need a vote from the Town Board. Those PLANNING BOARD 16 AUGUST 12, 1991 are the people who can grant you relief in this matter. We have no power to grant relief from these road specifications. Mr. Horton: I'll tell you what, we said it the night we walked out of here when you came in with the new road specs, that was our final back in 1986 and we said then is what you ~ys have done with those road specs is force people to go away from minor's and into major subdivisions, because you just can't sit there and say, "well, I'll put in four lots and spend $100,000.00 or $200,000.00 for roads", it just won't work. Supervisor Harris: Mr. Chairman, also if I can make a suggestion to your Board. The fact that this application was pending when that Legislation changing road specifications was adopted by the Town, legally if you ask the Town Attorney if there is a way because the application was pending, whether this application could be grandfathered in under them because it is like putting the cart before the horse the fact that he hadn't had the legislation enacted but there was an application pending, you then go back through all of your applications. Then, before you go to the final recon~uend~tion which was to submit it to the Town Highway and the Town Board. Just a suggestion to see it legally their is any relief there. Mr. Orlowski: If we go back to the old specs, they still may have to build something. Mr. Horton: Oh yeah, the old specs we were ready the night we came in for the final, we were ready to go and do whatever the old specs said. We were prepared to do Mr. Horton: We had been through three hearings with a gravel road and they were all approved until the final hearing and the final night we came in with the final maps and you informed~us that the specs had changed and we walked out and found out what it would cost and said there is only one thing we can do, which we now have pumped probahly twenty or thirty thousand dollars into as a major subdivision. Well, more than that but at any rate, we.said well let's go down and talk to these guys one more time and then if it won't work we will lay it out and will do the SEQRA process, we will do the whole thing and we'll ~ust go through it but, believe me for the Town I don't want to do it and for myself I don't want to do it and that is the way I feel. Mr. Orlowski: I'll talk with the Town Attorney tomorrow about this but I think the relief that you are looking for and the quickest and the easiest in the Town Board is looking to preserve this parcel also is relief from the road specs altogether and there is your agent right there that could handle everything. Supervisor Scott: I represent everyone. PLANNING BOARD 17 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. Orlowski: I think it is a good case to present to the Town Board and I think that they should look upon it favorably and it would be the quickest. I'll touch with the Town Attorney tomorrow. Mr. McDonald: I think we should send out the Engineer anyway because you are going to want that part in the report anyway. Mr. Horton: Let me ask you a question. If, the Town Board and the Engineer said it was OoK., could we go back to the subdivision that we had in 19857 A lot of laughing. Mr. Orlowski: I don't even know which one we're talking about. Mr. McDonald: I don't even know what it looks like. Mr. Horton: No, no, no, no, I am saying the only holdup in 1985 was a four lot subdivision. Mr. McDonald: I can't comment, I haven't even seen it and I have no idea what it says. Mr. Orlowski: What is the matter with this one. Mr. Horton: It's the same. Melissa: They have given us that map but they haven't revised it. Mr. Horton: No, that is the same final map. Melissa: It's the three lots on the lake. Mr. Horton: What I'm waiting for is for you guys to say is "if this happens, the subdivision is approved". Mro McDonald: You want us to say it's going to be approved without any of the hearings. You can't do that, sorry. Mr. Horton: No, no, no, no. You can have a public hearing. What do you guys want? Mr. McDonald: I'm a little confused. The process takes place, and in the course of the process all kinds of people can come forth and say things so I can't tell you that such and such will happen and we will do such and such because when somebody stands up and says ah, but ........ Mr. Horton: We were to the bottom part where we came in for final approval on that map. Everything was done, the maps were drawn, everything. We came in for final approval and were PLANNING BOARD 18 AUGUST 12, 1991 informed that the road specs had changed and so long as we built the road according to those new specs we could proceed with the subdivision. That's the point at which we hit 1986. Mr. Ward: I think at that particular point you were probably at curbs and a twenty-four foot road. Mr. Horton: That's right. Mr. Ward: The road spec then got changed again to a 16 foot road without curbs. Mr. Horton: And we walked away from it, then we said the only thing we can do, you know just to bring Mark up to speed on this, is to go with a major which we then did the maps on the major, so forth and so on. Mr. Ward: What is the cost of the current road. Mr. Horton: I don't even know. A lot of discussion. Mr. Ward: You are now talking about 16 foot wide without curbs and probably using swales as your drainage, so you substantially lessen it. Mr. Horton: We're talking about three quarters of a mile. That is our problem. We're talking about Jacobi's property which is the next property to ours. That has been the hang-up all along. Back in '86, we had been to three hearings and we had up until final approval. If the Town Board said O.K., we can go back to gravel roads, would the Planning Board say O.K.? Mr. Ward: If they change the specifications, it's waived. They decide that. That issue is closed, Mr. Horton: O.K., but is everything else back where it was in 19867 Mr. Ward: Once the present status has been filed. Is there a preliminary approval? Mr. Orlowski: We can't answer that tonight. 1986, what were you doing in 19867 Mr. Horton: Well, I could go to the Town Board and have the Town Board say O.K. yes, we will give you relief. Then I come back and you guys and ....... Mr. Ward: The road is the major sticking point. Mr. Horton: The money is the major sticking point for me. PLANNING BOARD 19 AUGUST 12, 1991 Mr. Ward: What is between us, that has been the major sticking point. Conceptually, I don't think we have had that much trouble with the layout conceptually. Mr. Horton: No. Mr. Ward: Maybe you can take that to be a kind of an answer to what you are asking. Mr. Harris: Mr. Chairman, if your Board would research this matter for that subdivision and give us information that we can have readily available should the applicant seek relief from the Highway Superintendent and Town Board, we could expedite this matter in a number of ways. First, with the minor subdivision being approved for applicant's who have been working on this for a number of years. The beneficial aspect being of course being that the Town can then proceed ahead and get thirty acres acquired for open space for the Town's people. Mr. McDonald: Let me be up front about what is happening in those thirty acres you want to sell so you have got some idea what is coming. We have promises left and promises right on this. So far the County has not produced one cent~ This is test time and I am going to be honest with you. I can't promise you anything from them. All I can do is promise you that we will go and fight like mad. Mr. Harris: As we have been, Mr. McDonald: Right, but I can't promise you anything on this is going to happen. Mr. Horton: I understand that you know. Mr. McDonald: Like I said, they have made deep promises to us but you know how wacky they are sometimes, even wackier than us. Mr. Horton: Thank you. Mr. Harris: Thank you for addressing this issue. While we are still on record, it is a pleasure to be on this side of the fence. Mr. Orlowski: Where is the press when you need them? Motion to adjourn. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. PLANNING BOARD 20 AUGUST 12, 1991 Being there is nothing left on my agenda, I will declare this meeting closed. Meeting adjourned at 8:30 p.m. Ja~ Rousseau, Secretary / ~-m soul-on) ~ow~ cmu~