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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-04/12/1993PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS Richard G. Ward, 2halrman George Rltehle La ham, Jr. Bennett Orlow., Ici, Jr, Mark $. MeEk nald Kenneth L. Ed yards Telephone (516) 7 S5-1938 Present ~ere: Absent: Mr. Ward Southold for the Mr. Lath Mr. Ward PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF $OUTHOLD SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD MINUTES APRIL 12, 1993 SCOTT L. HARRIS Supen~sor Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P. O. Mx 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516] 765 - 1823 Richard Ward, Chairman G. Richie Latham Kenneth Edwards Bennett Orlowski Mark McDonald Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner Melissa Spiro, Planner Board to set Monday, May 3, 1993 at 7:30 p.m. at the Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place lext regular Planning Board meeting. Second. Motion seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. PUBLIC HEARINGS Subdivisions - Final Mr. Ward: 7:30 p.m. Robert D. Hamilton - This major subdivision is for three lots on 3.4958 acres located on the northwest side of C.R. 48; 102.31 feet southwest of Westphalia Avenue in Mattituck. SCTM ~1000-141-2-21.2. Is there anyone pro nor con that would like to offer any comments to the Board? Anybody opposed? What is the pleasure of the Board? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 2 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to close the hearing? Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a further motion. WHEREAS, Robert D. Hamilton is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM #1000-141-2-21.2, located on the northwest side of C.R. 48; 102.31 feet southwest of Westphalia Avenue in Mattituck; and WHEREAS, this minor subdivision to be known as the minor subdivision for Robert D. HamiLton, is a Cluster Subdivision of three lots on 3.4958 acres; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on April 6, 1992; and WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on April 12, 1993; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and be it therefore, RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys dated April 8, 1993. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. ~ SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 3 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. Ward: 7:35 p.m. Ra~mond B. Gary, Raymond B. Gary and Prudence G. Gary and Fishers Island Development Corporation - This proposed lot line change is to subtract 0.07 acres from a "spur" of Private Road ~7, owned by the Fishers Island Development Corp. and add it to a 1.73 acre parcel; and to subtract 0.06 acres from the same Private Road "spur" and add it to a 1.85 acre parcel, thus eliminating the Private Road "spur~' between the two properties. SCTM 91000-4-5-13, 14, & part of Private Road ~7. Is there anyone here that would like to speak on behalf of this application that would like to address the Board? If not, what is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Edwards: I would like to make a motion that we close the hearing. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowskil Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Fir. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. WHEREAS, Raymond B. Gary, Raymond B. Gary~and Prudence G. Gary and Fishers Island Development Corporation are the owners of the property known and designated as SCTM 41000-4-5-13 & part of road spur of Private Road ~7, of the Fishers Island Development Corp., located at a road spur on the eastern side of Private Road ~7, approximately 900' north of its intersection with east End Road, Fishers Island; and WHEREAS this lot line change to be known as proposed lot line change for Raymond B. Gary, Raymond B. Gary and Prudence G. Gary. and Fishers Island Develo~ent Corporation, is for a lot line change to subtract .07 acres from a "spur" of private road ~7, owned by the Fishers Island Development Corporation and add it to a 1.73 acre parcel; and to subtract .06 acres from the same Private Road "spur" and add it to a 1.85 acre parcel, thus eliminating the Private Road "spur" between the two properties; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8) Part 617, declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on March 22, 1993; and WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at Town Hall, Southold, New York on April 12, 1993; and $OUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 4 APRIL 12, 1993 WHEREAS, all of the requirements of the Town of Southold have been met; and now therefore, be it RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey dated January 5, 1993. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. (Chairman endorsed maps). Subdivisions - Preliminary: Mr. Ward: 7:40 p.m. Anna K. Plock - This ma~or subdivision is for five lots on 21.79 acres located on an existing right-of-way off North Bayview Road, approximately 935 feet east of Reydon Road in Southold. SCTM #1000-79-5-20.2. Is there anyone here who has any co~m,ents? Timothy Caulfield: I am with the Peconic Land Trust. I am here on behalf of the Plock family joint ventur~ and I just wanted to speak in support of the application and as the Planning Board knows we have been working with the applicant for quite some time on the project and we believe that we have supplied all of the information that has been requested. If there are any other questions Mr. Lark is here representing the applicant and we would be happy to answer any questions. Otherwise, we would just request that the application move forward as soon as possible. Mr. McDonald: I don't know if you are aware but the Suffolk County Planning Commission failed to make a quorum so they set the meeting back and se we don't have a report from the Suffolk County Planning Commission yet. Mr. Caulfield: Is that the only thing that is outstanding in this? Mr. McDonald: That is the only thing. Mr. Ward: I think at the May 3rd meeting we will be able to address it. Mr. McDonald: We expected to have the report back from them by now but because they cancelled their meeting and moved it back. Mr. Caulfield: O.K., thanks. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 5 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. Ward: Would anybody else like to address this Board on this? If not, what is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. McDonald: I move that we keep this hearing open. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. McDonald: Seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward. Mr. McDonald: Opposed? Motion carried. Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Ward: Hillcrest Estates, Section 2 - This major subdivision is for twenty lots on 22.9 acres located in Orient. SCTM ~1000=13-2-8.5. Mr. Harold Reese Jr. -I was not aware that this was on the calendar this evening but in light of that Young and Young has addressed a letter to the Board trying to determine what the bluff line is on this particular subdivision. I wrote a follow-up letter to the Board which you should have received last week wondering what the outcome of this meeting was to determine this bluff line and we do have a meeting with the Health Department concerning the water problem of this parcel tomorrow. Mr. Ward: As of today, we have nothing in writing back from you. Mr. Reese: There was something from Young and Young and I didn't bring in the file because I didn't know it was on the calendar but there was a letter from Young and Young to the Board to try and determine the Bluff line. Mr. McDonald: Would you drop us a note and let us know about how long you think the time frame is on that? Mr. Reese: No problem. Thank you. Mr. Ward: What is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. McDonald: I move we keep this hearing open. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Seconded. Ail those in favor? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 6 APRIL 12, 1993 Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Ward: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3.743 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck Road in Mattituck. SCTM ~1000-113-8-5. Is there anybody here that would like to address the Board regarding this property? If not, what is the pleasure of the Board? Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a motion. BE IT RESOLVRD to take the final public hearing off the Planning Board's agenda. Your client will be given the right to restore the application upon notification by you in writing, that the necessary approvals have been obtained from the Zoning Board of Appeals. Mr. Orlowski: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So carried. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS Final Determinations: Mr. ward: Francis Greenberger - This major subdivision is for four lots on 15.581 acres located on the north side of Eugene's Road; 381.541 feet west of Bay Avenue in Cutchogue. SCTM ~1000-97-3-18.1. Mr. Orlowski: I would like to make a motion. Be it RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys dated January 27, 1992. This subdivision received conditional final approval on January 11, 1993. All conditions of approval have been me~. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Seconded. Ail those in favor SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 7 APRIL 12, 1993 Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So carried. (Chairman endorsed maps.) Preliminary Extensions Mr. Ward: Tide Group (North Fork Industrial Park) - This major subdivision is for eight lots on 29.11 acres located on the northwest corner of Middle Road and Depot Lane in the LIO District in Cutchogue. SCTM ~1000-96-1-1. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board gr~t a retroactive extension of preliminary approval from February 24, 1993 to August 24, 1993. Preliminary approval was granted on February 24~ 1992. Please note that this is the second extension of preliminary approval that the Planning Board has grar~ted. The Board is not in favor of granting any further extensions of preliminary approval for this proposed subdivision. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Raynor: May I~address the Board before you. t~ke a vote on that Please? I am not sure if the~Board is aware of some of thecomplications created today in the Suffolk.County Department of Health in regards to the water testing : new approximately two months to get contracts from :weli drillers to get t~e appropriate wells, one per ten acres in and receive back the analysis from the Department of Health Services which can run again up to two months. Given that the~analysis does not meet the current standards, this proces~is again cycled two months to go back in and in this particular instance put well points in on each one of the lots and then go back and get the analysis approved or at least reviewed by the Department of Health. We have lost now an accumulated six months. It takes approximately' fiveto six months and sometimes up to seven months to get before the Suffolk County Board of Review and then another month to five weeks to get a decision. That brings us to thirteen to fourteen months. I just wanted to bring this point up to the Board so that they are aware that this is what an applicant is running against at this point. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 8 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. McDonald: What have you got down there? You have gone to do the wells twice now and have you found anything at all? Have you found anything clean? Mr. Raynor: Oh yes, we have found plenty clean. We have two that exceed the nitrate level. Mr. McDonald: Two of the sites are not coming out? Mr. Raynor: That is correct. We now have well sites on each one of the lots. Mr. Ward: What do you feel your realistic time frame is to get through them at this point? How many months from now? Mr. Raynor: How many months from now, I would say on a given I would say we are probably going to run very, very close to your August deadline. Mr. Ward: O.K., you will keep us posted. Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Setting of Final Hearings: Mr. Ward: West Mill S~bdivision (aka M. Paul Friedberg) - This major subdivision is for nine lots on 22.105 acres located on the west side of West Mill Road; 1102.15 feet south of Naugles Drive in Mattituck. SCTM ~1000-109-9-p/04. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED to set Monday, May 3, 1993 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps dated March 5, 1993. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So carried. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 9 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. Ward: John S. McGeene¥ and Edward F. Rodenba~h, Trus. This proposed Lot Line change is to subtract 11,485 square feet from a 65,966 square foot parcel and add it to a 20,482 square foot parcel located on Fishers Island. SCTM #1000-6-2-5 & 6. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the $outhold Town Planning Board set Monday, May 3, 1993, at 7:35 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps dated February 2, 1993. Mr. Orlowski: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed Motion carried. Review of Reports - Engineering: Mr. Ward: West Mill Subdivision (aka M. Paul Friedberg) - SCTM $1000-109-9-p/o4. Mr. Orlowski: I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED to adopt the March 18, 1993 Engineering Inspector's Report. Mr. Lath~m: Second. Mr. Ward: Seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So carried. Review of Reports Engineering: Mr. Ward: The North Forty - This major subdivision is for thirteen lots on 30.3565 acres located on the south side of Oregon Road; 621 feet west of Depot Lane, in Cutchoque. SCTM 1000-95-4-14.1. Mr. Edwards: I would like to offer the following resolution. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 10 APRIL 12, 1993 RESOLVED to adopt the April 7, 1993 report from the Engineering Inspector. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So carried. Bond Determinations: Mr. Ward: West Mill Subdivision (aka M. Paul Friedberg) - SCTM ~1000-109-9-p/o4. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED to adopt the March 18, 1993 Engineering Inspector's Report. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a further motion. RESOLVED to adopt the bond estimate dated as revised March 31, 1993, and to recommend same to the Town Board. The bond estimate is in the amount of $96,070.00, with an inspection fee in the amount of $5,764.00. Mr. Orlowski: Second. Mr. Ward: Seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So carried. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT . SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 11 APRIL 12, 1993 Lead Agency Coordination: Mr. Ward: Randall W. Lacey - This proposal is to set-off 43,000 square feet from an existing thirty-three acres parcel located on the north side of Route 25; 300 feet east of The Long Way in East Marion. SCTM ~i000-31-1-1. Mr. Edwards: I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the lead agency coordination process on this unlisted action. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: Seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr.. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Ward: Harold Reese, Sr. et al and Otto Uhl, Jr. et al - This proposed lot line change between Harold Reese, Sr. et al and Otto Uhl, Jr. et al is to convey 10,093 square feet from Harold Reese, Sr. to Otto Uhl, Jr., and to convey 5,258 square feet from Otto Uhl, Jr. to Harold Reese, Sr. After the lot line change the Harold Reese, Sr. parcel will be 98.1563 acres and the Otto Uhl, Jr. parcel will be 12.405i acres. SCTM #t000-22-3-15.ir 18,1 and 18.3. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the lead agency coordination process on this Type 1 action. The proposed Lot Line change has been classified as a Type 1 action under the State Environmental Quality Review Act because the subject property is located within 500 feet of a Critical Environmental Area (Dam Pond). Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 12 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. Ward: San Simeon Retirement Co~m,~nity and San Simeon Nursing Home - This proposal is to convey 6.594 acres from a vacant 37.555 acre parcel to be merged with a 3.581 acre parcel containing a nursing home. Both parcels are zoned Hamlet Density. Location S/E/c CR 48 and Chapel Lane. SCTM ~1000-45-2-p/o 10.3 and 45-2-2. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the lead agency coordination process on this unlisted action. Mr. Orlowski: Second. Mr. Edwards: Seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, may I ask a question? Did we determine that this is a sufficient distance from the sound and not included in the CEA. When they changed it in Fishers Island did it include sounds? (Inaudible). Determinations: Mr. Ward: Andrew Cassidy & Sons - This proposal is to set off a 4.51 acre parcel from an existing 62.5829 acre parcel located on the west side of Main Road and the south side of Albertson's Lane in Greenport. The 4.5131 acre parcel is located in the LI District and the remainder of the property is located in the R-80 District. SCTM ~1000-52-5-59.3 & 59.4. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, assume lead agency status on this Type 1 action, and as lead agency, make a determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative Declaration. The set off is not expected to have a significant environmental impact as at this time it will result in the ~ SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 13 APRIL1 12, 1993 creation of two lots divided along the zoning boundary. Future subdivision of the R-80 portion of the site will undergo careful delineation of the wetlands and detailed environmental review. The applicant has put forth a covenant and restriction on the LI portion of the site restricting it from any further subdivision. Any site plan submitted for the parcel will require wetland delineation, and depending upon the use and design, mitigation may~be required. Mr. Orlowski: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Ward: At this time of the meeting we have an appointment with Mr. Richard Israel to discuss the proposal for the affordable housing project in Southold. Maybe you can answer one question that we had, I guess the primary question was that being you are outside of the half mile radius that the code allows, under what section of the code would we address this? Mr. Israel: Under the code it is suggested that it be within a half mile of thelhamtet but it'is at the discretion of the Town Board if they feel the site that has been selected is appropriate. Wetry to find sites that the development will not look odd in andl yet will be in a residential neighborhood and there aren't many'sites left which are not in the middle of farm fields. I thinkwhenthe code was written with the half mile concept from the hamlets, it was meant not to taint a lot of our green open space that you see on Route 48 and there are about to become dense housing units. This particular site that we have we are in a pretty much half acre neighborhood~and it is pretty muchresidential in that neighborhood if you look at the surrounding areas. You have Grange Road to the north and as you go down Bayv~ew ther~ are subdivisions that are quarter acre or half acre subdivisions. We are within the reaches of public water. ThiS is to give the Board just a preliminary view of what we have applied to the Town an application for this particular development and it went into the Town last week which through the routing system I guess eventually comes to you guys. This is a parcel which is sided by two roads, Main Bayview and South Harbor. We felt that South Harbor was the quieter street and the nicer street and there is a cul-de-sac which services most of the lots we have created a utility easement and a water easement to bring water around to Main Bayview and we are hoping in the future this is where the fire SOUT~OLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 14 APRIL 12, 1993 station is going ko be, eventually we will be able to tie it to the loop and not a dead end so we have created an easement here which acts for two reasons. It gives people walking easement to Main Ba!rview and it gives easement into the recharge basin and water, electric lines and stuff to go all under ground to service all the homes which are facing Main Bayview. The general question is the half acre, I mean as far as half mile out of the hamlet and again we are believers that the ~ubdivisions even though they are affordable subdivisions, to us hey are just taking Southcld a little back in time and giving ~ youngsters a chance to buy a piece of land and own a home they live and work. Mr.. Orlowski: What price range are you talking? Mr. Israel: These will be lots that will be sold under the affordable guidelines of Southold. Mr. McDonald: How much is that now do you know? Mr. Israel: My understanding it is, thirty-four thousand, between thirty-four and thirty-five thousand dollars. Mr. McDonald: What is the present zoning there? Mr. Israel: The present zoning here for no apparent reason is R-80. Mr. McDonald: Two acre now? Mr. Israel: It is surrounded by R-40 for no apparent reason except that it is previously developed that way. Mr. McDonald: Ail of it is pretty much two acre except for a Plock. Mr. Israel: You don't know what happens when you go down North Bayview. Mr. McDonald: That is Plock. That is one, You are right, the rest I think is all two. Mr. Israel: It seems that most of our zoning maps were done to comply with existing zoning rather than future zoning when it came to anything being under two acre. Mr. McDonald: With the present state of things, you are in the real estate business, how many acres is this parcel now? Mr. Israel: This parcel I believe is eighteen acres. Mr. McDonald: So, under the present zoning there would be at the most nine lots. What do you think a two acre lot is worth in there right now? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 15 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. Israel: Would I be able to do a two acre lot or would it be a one acre lot? Mr. McDonald: No, in the market place not what would be feasible for you. Mr. Israel: A two acre lot today in the general market is probably worth eighty-five thousand dollars. Mr. McDonald: How far do you think this is from the nearest shopping facility? For groceries, for baseline things, survival items? Mr. Israel: The closest co~L,~ercial thing here I am going to say is probably Feather Hill. Mr. McDOnald: Essentially the same as the Post Office you think? I don't know how far it is from there to Peconic. Mr. Israel: We clocked it both ways and it is exactly in the middle. You are talking about, I think one way was a mile point two and the other way was a mile and a half. Mr. McDonald: Do you know anything about bus routes in this area? Mr. Israel: Sure, there is a bus that goes down Main Road and actually stops at the Gulf Station which is not too far from here. Mr. McDonald: Does anything go by this that you know of? Mr. Israel: Well it won't because there aren't any bus routes that go down Main Bayview. You have to walk up to the Main Road, you can walk up to the Main Road which is not too far up South Harbor, that is where Catapano's is. Mr. McDonald: Do you know how far that is from there to the corner of South Harbor? Mr. Israel: I never measured it but I would assume that it is less than a quarter of a mile. Mr. McDonald: There are no sidewalks there or'anything at the present right? Mr. Israel: No, there is basically no sidewalks in the Town except for in the hamlet. Mr. Ward: Have you checked with the Town in terms of the list as far as the people that are interested in a project such as this? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 16 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. Israel: Well, my understanding is that the Town has been advertising for the last three weeks for a list. My understanding as of last Wednesday cause I asked Jim with their advertising where they stand on a list and they say, we have eleven applicant's who have come to us and I said to him that that is kind of silly because who would apply locally if there are no projects even in the horizon? Since this has been in the paper last week, I have gotten close to twenty people who are Southold people who know Highpoint Meadows is a subdivision and want to get onto a list to possibly buy a lot here. Again, the same situation they have seen Southold Villas, they have seen Cedarfields, they did not want to buy the built product that was offered to them and want a chance to build on ~their own the house that they would like. They are looking to buy the land at a discounted price. Mr. McDonald: How many units did you have in this? Mr. Israel: This has twenty-eight units, fourteen of which would be affordable. It is not a large subdivision in that sense and I think that is what you are going to see. I think four or five years ago we had a panic where nobody had a place to live and we created Cedarfietds and we created Southold Villas, we created Highpoint Meadows, the Town did fifteen or sixteen houses on their own. I think what you are going to see now is just a steady need, you are not going to see this gross need that we have previously where if you had a subdivision of this nature that came to market every couple of years it would surely meet the need and help our people stay here. Mr. McDonald: So, every couple of years we need a project of about this size do you think? Mr. Israel: I would think that is probably true. Here we have fourteen lots that would be affordable and I think if I had the possibility I could sell them out all tomorrow. Mr. Orlowski: You are just talking about selling the lots then. Mr. Israel: In this concept we only talk ~hout selling the lots for two reasons. Number one, me and Herb live in the Town of Southold, we have a reputation here and I cannot build the product which is being built and still walk the streets. Mr. McDonald: So, you don't feel that you could meet the guidelines with the af'fordable if you had to build the houses? Mr. Israel: That is correct. Not with all the costs that are associated with subdivisions, not with all the costs that are associated with building. As everybody knows and has read in the paper, lumber has gone up by thirty percent in the last two months for no reason that I know of. We don't believe in building minimum standard housing. We don't want to build eight hundred and fifty square foot houses. We don't feel they meet SOUT}{OLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 17 APRIL 12, 1993 the needs of the people occupying them. Most of them are young families and most of them have one, two, three children and they are currently living in parent's homes, they are currently living in rentals, this or that. They are trying to muster up a down payment on a house. Another complex issue of this is again, you can't build a house anywhere in the United States if you don't have a down payment for it. This gives them an opportunity if they can't afford to build today, they can build two years from now. They can pay down their land, their land is still worth market value so it is going to give them the equity to then go forth and go to a bank and borrow on the equity of their land in. two or three years to build if they can't afford to do it today. As you know, mortgage banks don't want to lend. I had a person who wanted to borrow a hundred thousand dollar mortgage and he had to earn fifty-four thousand dollars under one banks guidelines to afford a hundred thousand dollar mortgage which is not an excessive mortgage today but under the guidelines of twenty eight percent which a lot of banks are holding to now because of Fanny Mae guidelines it comes out that the person has to earn fifty-four thousand dollars to borrow a hundred thousand dollars which is pretty sad. But, those are things we cannot change. Mr. McDonald: I assume that you intend this to comply with the present guidelines in the code? Mr. Israel: Correct, in every respect. I know that basically fifty pe~cent of this subdivision will be affordable housing or affordable lots. I think that it is in a good area which may bring some opposition from some people but that should go back to our relative thinking of what affordable housing is. Affordable housing does not have to be a slum or a segregated area next to a railroad track, it should be housing that is · worth the same as the house next door and we have done that in Highpoint Meadows where there is no division of bad side or good side and actually it has turned out better than I ever expected it to. I think everybody in that first staqe was wondering what is really going to happen here and I ~hink if you look at it today, it has turned out to be a very outstanding community of Southold and homogeneous with Southold that you can't tell it apart from Yennecott Park next door and I think that is what you want your affordable subdivisions to do. Mr. Ward: Any other questions from the Board? your presentation. Thank you for Mr. Israel: This is just a preview and it will go through the normal process. Mr. Hugh Conroy: May I speak? I live on Glenn Lane, off Main Bayview in Southold. My apologies to the Board, I don't know the protocol. I have listened to the proposal and I have seen it and I would like the same consideration that was given to the SOUTHOLDTOWN PLANNING BOARD 18 APRIL 12, 1993 proposal. I have a few questions to the Board, to the Town and to Mr. Israel himself. How can the proposal that was in the Suffolk Times this week go to Scott Harris on a Thursday, last Thursday, how can it be on, I don't know the protocol, how can it be on a Monday night and why did you go to Scott Harris before the Planning Board? I don't understand this. Mr. Ward: Well basically, this is a change of zone which the Town Board has jurisdiction on, they may ask the Planning Board their opinion of it but the determination of whether the affordable housing district is created is solely empowered by the Town Board. Why are they here tonight is that they are at the end of our agenda just as you are because we open our agenda at the end of the meeting for anybody to address the Board that wishes to address the Board. Mr. Conroy: May I ask a couple of questions then? The area is two acre zoning. Was the property bought at two acre zoning? Mr. Ward: I would assume so. Mr. McDonald: If they bought it, it was bought at two acre zoning. Mr. COnro¥: That is what I bought mine at. I am down the road. Mr. McDonald: The present zoning is two acre. Mr. Conroy: Is it in the Master Plan or before the Master Plan, two acre? Mr. Ward: Both. Mr. Conroy: I can't understand what and I am referring specifically to the article in the Suffolk Times. Mr. Israel constantly refers to selling the lots and lettingthe people build afterwards. Is there any involvement or is there any net gain for you at all? You are not going to build the building, you are just going to s~ll the lots. Mr. Israel: I cannot build the buildings to my requirements under the affordable housing law. Mr. Conroy: Can I ask some more questions? Mr. Israel: Sure, I.am not here to fight with you. Mr. Conroy: Are there any other hundred thousand plu~ lots in the Town of Southold, not the village, not around here, in the Town of Southold because when I pass real estate agents it's one hundred and two, one hundred and ten. Mr. McDonald: You mean a house? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 19 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. Conroy: Yes. So, why does the zoning code have to be disturbed for this? I mean, I would like to live on Park Avenue but I live in Southold but I do live in and I can't live on Park Avenue. Mr. Israel: Do you know of any lots that can be bought for thirty-five thousand dollars? Mr. Conroy: Not any two acre lots. Mr. Israel: How about a half acre lot. Mr. Conroy: You are selling two acre lots and you are trying to subdivide. Now, let me finish my question, I didn't disturb 'yOU. Mr. Ward: This is not really a debate tonight, I would appreciate if you would just address your issues and I am.really not going to get into interaction at this point. Mr. Conroy: I'm sorry. A big question to me is how many people from Highpoint and Southold Villas are in Southold SChool District now that weren't in there before and how much is that impacting the Southold School District? I know for a fact how many children, because I have got three children in that school district, how many kids are coming inbecauSe of these develOpments a~dthey are not coming~in from the S~uthold School District. Take a second to that, and I wonder why the development is happening only in Southold SchoolDistrict. Are they trying to capitalize on the school district? To quote Mr. Israel, "l refuse to build minimum standards". How do you all of a sudden become a benefactor? You said the landowner would become the builder. I don't understand this reason and this is all in the Suffolk Times. In the same article he suggested that the Town float & bond to support public housing, if we don't go along with Mr. I~srael, what is his next threat? Public Housing, an authority telling who to live where, when and how? Are we going to go to the Bronx and to Brooklyn and do this again? I view it as a threat. Now, I will go further into this and what I take as a real; real cheap shot to any property owner who got in before the devaluation of property. Mr. Israel said in the same Suffolk Times article. If (inaudible) drop, whiCh he says happened because of his, because he is such a nice guy, there would be more apartments for more people to live in. Did he actually say because of his developments that quote, real estate values have gone down in Southold, did you actually say you have stolen those people who were saving to buy a hundred and eighty to a two hundred thousand dollar house and never could have attained them without your help? You have taken a hundred buyers out of the market? Who are you to down' zone because it fits you? Finally, may I ask more questions? Besides you goals, who stands to loose? Because you claim to down zone an area that people bought into at two acres and plus, you want a half an acre? Those who invested top dollars before thedecline SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 20 APRIL 12, 1993 of value you take credit for in by building developments? Those who might have inherited the valued property, you? Those who paid Southold School District taxes, those who might have more run off right in the creek at the end of that road if you look at it on the map. Those who are going to have to negotiate more traffic and (inaudible). Or those, Mr. Israel, who will want for your developments when the time is right for you to go into high price housing and your profit is safely tucked away. Gentlemen, thank you for your time. Mr. Ward: Is there anybody else who would like to address the Board this evening? Would somebody please knock on the door there and let Mr. Cuddyknow we are ready. Mr. Ward: Also tonight we have Charles Cuddy for an appointment to discuss proposed Burger King site plan. Mr. Cuddy: This is Mr. Dennis who is the architect for Burger King. Before he gives you some plans, I just wanted to hand you two things which would be helpful I think. One of them is a letter from the Zoning Board dated last week which says that we comply substantially with the plan that was submitted. I will give you a copy of the letter. The other document is from Mr. Lessard which is a certification of the plan that we are going to give you saying that it meets the zoning code. Mr. McDonald: Could you tell me at what meeting they decided this at? Mr. Cuddy: I don'.t know, I asked them by letter and they wrote back to me by letter. Mr. McDonald: So, they have never had this in public to discuss whether it is in compliance or not that you know of. Mr. Cuddy: I don't know. I assume that the Board reviewed this plan. Mr. McDonald: You are assuming that they have met as a group and have reviewed this and made a determination that it is in compliance. I am just wondering when they did it, it usually tells you the date that they have done x, y and z. Mr. Cudd¥: I am not sure. The letter is signed by the Chairman of the Zoning Board. Mr. McDonald: I am particularly concerned that they would do this and not copy us but that is not your problem of course. Mr. Cuddy: I can't go from one Board to another and tell you how they work but I asked them to send us a letter and they sent a letter to us. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 21 APRIL 12, 1993 ~r. McDonald: It is an amazement to me, government continues to be an amazement to me. Mr. Cuddy: I'm on the outside and sometimes it amazes me too. Mr. McDonald: Let's see, we haven't gotten this plan and Victor has already certified it. Mr. Cuddy: No, what happened is, I don't know that you don't have the plan but I am giving you the plan now. But what I did is I took the plan that was O.K.'d by the Zoning Board and I took that plan to Mr. Lessard and I asked him to indicate to us if it complies. Now, I don't know Mr. McDonald what the problem is but I suspect that you would think that he should do something with this plan. He is a building inspector and apparently your concern is that you didn't see the plan. Mr. McDonald: Right. I am concerned because it is different than the way the process always works and this is totally inverted. Now, it may be totally correct, I am not questioning that it is just new to me. Mr. Ward: He didn't sign off on it, he has addressed certain issues. Mr. Cuddy: He reviewed it and I asked him if it meets the zoning code and that is what he did. I don't know what you have in mind. Mr. McDonald: No, I thought you said he had certified it. Mr. Cuddy: I amusing the word certified meaning, that he had signed the plan saying that this plan meets theZQning Code of the Town, Southold as to business B. I used that Word but if ¥oudon't want me to use that word, I won't. All I am saying to you is I think that the Building Inspector is saying that as it is it meets the Z~ning Code. I wanted him to~do ~that so if there are any questions, we could address those questions. I trust no one has a Problem with ~s Presentihg a site plan, What we are dOing is that we are Substituting this plan for the plan that McDonalds had and What we have done is we have asked the Zoning Board to indicate, the Zoning Board made a decision. In that decision it said that the plan that we presented to this Planning Board had to be in accordance with the plan they approved. 'That is why we brought this plan to them first. The decision that they made a year ago said that we had to have the same footprint building wise, we had to have essentially the same plan. We have the same plan and that is why we went to them before we came to you. I think that is the proper way to do it because otherwise we would be going back and forth. Mr. Orlowski: There is no drive up on this? SOUTHOT.D TOWN PLANNING BOARD 22 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. Cuddy: No drive up, it is the same plan. There is two variations in the plan and Mr. Dennis is going to explain what they are. Mr. Orlowski: Do you have elevations of this? Mr. Dennis: No. I thought it would be appropriate to deal with it on a site plan basis rather than to deal with it on elevation basis but I know of your concern about the appearances. (Inaudible) more appropriate to the Town of Southold. The changes we have made from the original McDonald's plan is that the building is smaller, the building has been reorientation so it is at right angle to the road which is also in keeping with the comment which was received on the original submission to the NYS Department of Transportation that they wanted the driveways at right angles to the highway and the McDonald's proposition the building and the site work was twisted to the detriment of the plan and also to the detriment.of the building. The other building (inaudible) is parallel to the road and I think most of the buildings in the neighborhood are that way. If you read the site plan and you read that the property lines are not at right angles but I don't think that someone driving by would be aware of that if the buildings are rotated to make it parallel with the parking lines so we did that and we changed the elevations on the driveway to be in compliance with the Town of Southold's regulations about maximum incline from the road to six percent and the building elevation has been lowered to an elevation of twenty six and one half feet and we have kept the parking area fairly level about 'twenty-six. We don't have the final elevations on the projectbut we are making an initial proposal and since the building is smaller we are reducing the amount of parking. We are using the rule of one 'space for every two seats and the other rule of one parking space for every fifty square feet which ever is larger and comes up with sixty spaces required. We are showing less spaces than that where we are providing fifty-five spaces including three for handicapped and we are showing fifty in a land bank situation which was of a similar proportion to what McDonald's had submitted. We are in compliance as Mr. Cuddy said with all the set back requirements. The set back on the front of the building off the road is fifty feet and we are going back one hundred and forty feet so again I think in compliance with what was submitted by McDonald's. We did find out that there has been Health Department approval on the original submission which was approved in September of 1991 which expires in September of 1993. We do have that initial submission from the Department of Transportation which we have not addressed. We also realized that we have to submit drainage plans and calculations, landscape plan and schedule, lighting plan and schedule in addition to elevations as I just commented on. We do think though that we will no problem with the Department of SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 23 APRIL 12, 1993 Transportation as far as curb cuts and the Health Department approval we are pretty much assured. The fact that they approved the original plan which had more seats than this plan. So, I would submit this letter Mr. Chairman. Ms. Scopaz: Excuse me Mr. Chairman, if I may ask a question. You may have mentioned it before bat if I understand you correctly you are basically regrading the site down from thirty feet down to twenty six feet. In other words, you are lowering the elevation of the entire front half of the property by four feet. Mr. Dennis: Yes. Ms. Scopaz: That is the major difference from the prior site plan. There was not kind of a grading shown in that plan. Now, is that regrading going to be extended for the entire site including the parking lot for twenty six feet? Mr. Dennis: I would say in general, yes. We don't have the exact grades of all the Cornish's conceptual plan but I would think that it all be at twenty six. The grade as it goes to the back is twenty six and the mean elevation is about twenty eight feet as it runs across here so we would be dropping it two feet and here we would be dropping from an elevation which is thirty across the top it would be dropping down to twenty six and one half. But again, I mentioned that the McDonald's plan did not comply with the grading requirements for driveways and also had the driveway not at a right angle to the road. Ms. Scopaz: Have you included plans that show how this will tie in with the existing grade of the property directly to the east? Mr. Dennis: Yes, these contours all show the relationship of the new contours to the existing on the adjacent two pieces of property so we are not disturbing the grade adjacent to the property. Here is the existing grade as a dotted line and here is the proposed grade. Ms. Scopaz: Yes, I realize that but what I am asking is whether you considered the existing grade of the property here? Mr. Dennis: Yes, I did. That is a very gradual drop and so is this. I know the Town of Soathold has a maximum grade of ten percent, I think that is the maximum it is not the ideal. Everyone talking. Mr. Caddy: It is going to be similar to the type of building that McDonald's submitted. It is going to be similar to the architecture of the building next door which is a cape. Everyone talking. ~ SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 24 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. McDonald: So, we are waiting for the lighting plan, the drainage and grading, landscaping plan and the elevations. Mr. Cuddy: Ail we are trying to do is show you this conceptually and also to say to you that we think we comply and that is why we got the letter from the Zoning Board with what we had to do. Mr. McDonald: They haven't seen any of these other plans either though right? ~r. Cuddy: No, the only thing that the Zoning Board saw was this plan. That is all we had. Mr. Dennis: This is just a sketch I did from the office. a building with some dormers across the front and some bay windows. Just Mr. McDonald: It is onthe basis of the previous building we had. Mr. Dennis: Yes, that is not what I did that is what was previously done. I don't know how far thatgot with anybody as far as their approval but it was the intention to do a colonial type of building with sloping roofs or a cape cod with dozmers. Mr. Ward: O.K., we will be looking forward to the rest of your presentation. Mr. Javis: Good evening, I am trying to make up a little bit of time that I lost which is a little bit of my own fault and just the bureaucracy in general. What it pertains to is building a new set of bathrooms next to our pavilion (Pindar Winery) that we built last year. I was hoping if there was any way possible because the people that we had working with us kind of dropped the ball a little bit and I have to put it back together again. Mr. McDonald: We kind of know what is going on. I notice that we got a letter from the Health Department and they are saying that your application is not even complete down there yet and that they need submission of additional information including wells, septic systems within a hundred feet of the site area, expansion for the sewage system profile etc.. Mr. Ward: Would you like a copy of that letter? Mr. Javis: Yes, this is news to me right now. Mr. McDonald: It just came. In light of that though, I think we are only talking about a couple of more weeks until the next meeting to grant you the SEQRADetermination. By the time you SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 25 APRIL 12, 1993 get this stuff together we will be back up and ready to grant you what you need. Mr. Javis: From my understanding, I discussed it with Merle Wiggins today, all this has been taken care of. Mr. Ward: You have got an incomplete application with the Health Department, they may be minor items but they are incomplete and when you or your agent makes a submission they should know these things. Mr. McDonald: Get you stuff together and at the next meeting we will pop you through. Mr. Javis: Mr. Wiggins swore up and down to me today that everything is ready to go and he will send the fax out today. Mr. Ward: Get cleaned up at the Health Department and we will try to get you on for May 3rd. Mr. Orlowski: When do you have to have this done? Mr. Javis: As soon as we can possibly build it. I have guys on line that are ready to go. Mr. Orlowski: How long will it take to build it? Mr. Javis: Well probably a month and a half at least and if you really want to know, I have my wedding reception there on June t9th at one o'clock and I would like my grandparent's to be able to use the bathroom. So, now the pressure is on from my own family. Mr. McDonald: We have a meeting the first thing in May right? Mr. Ward: You have to get cleaned up with them first. Mr. Javis: O.K., I will follow through with this. Other than that, there are no other problems right? Mr. McDonald: Right from the beginning it was pretty much straight ahead. Mr. Javis: Yes, I thought so. Mr. Ward: O.K., is there anyone elsehere this evening that would like to address the Board? If not, I would like to entertain a motion. Mr. McDonald: I make a motion that we adjourn. Mr. Orlowski: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? SOUTHOT.D TOWN PLANNING BOARD Ayes: 26 APRIL 12, 1993 Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. **************************************** Being there was no further business to be brought before the Board, the meeting was adjourned. Respectfully submitted, Jane Rousseau Secretary Richard Ward· Chairman