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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-02/08/1993PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS Richard G. Ward. Chairman George Ritchie Latham, Jr. Bennett Orlowski, Jr. Mark S. McDonald Kenneth L. Edwards Telephone (516) 765-1938 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD scoTr L. HARRIS Supervisor Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P. O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax {516) 765 - 1823 SOUTHOL~ TOWN PLANNING BOARD MINUTES FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Present were: Richard Ward, Chairman Bennett Orlowski G. Richie Latham Mark McDonald Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner Melissa Spiro, Planner Matt Kiernan, Assistant Town Attorney Absent: Kenneth Edwards (Due to weather) Holly Perrone Mr. Ward: First order of business is to set the next Planning Board Meeting for March 1, 1993 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold. Mr. Latham: So moved. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr.. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. Hearing Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Ward: Hillcrest Estates, Section 2 This major subdivision is for twenty lots on 22.9 acres located in Orient. SCTM #1000-13-2-8.2. · ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 2 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion to: BE IT RESOLVED to hold this hearing open. But I would ask that we send a letter to them because when they came before us they said that they probably thought they could do this in a couple or three months. We are starting to get along on this so we should send a letter and put a little hurry up them to see where they stand and how much longer we are going to have to hold this open. Mr. Ward: Alright, good point. Do we have a second? Mr..Latham: I'll second that. Mr. Ward: O.K., all those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. orlowski, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. Mr. Ward: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3.743 located on the east side of Cox Neck Road in Mattituck. SCTM ~I000-113-8-5. Mr. Latham: I move we leave the hearing open. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor?' Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS Setting of Final Hearings: Mr. Ward: Fred L. Terry, Estate This minor subdivision is a clustered subdivision of two lots on thirty -three acres located on the south side of Main Road, 2678 feet east of Narrow River Road in Orient. SCTM ~1000-19-1-8. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer a motion. ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 3 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, March 1, 1993 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps dated November 29, 1989. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Lathamr Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. Mr. Ward: Henrietta A. Mormile and Arthur and Marion Mormile - This proposed lot line change is to create two parcels from three existing parcels. This is a Type I action within 500' from Peconic Bay Boulevard at Laurel. SCTM ~1000-128-4-9, 15 & 16. I believe we have taken lead agency status or started lead agency. Mr. McDonald: Rather than make a motion on the final hearing, I would like to make a motion that: BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, established itself as lead agency on this project. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. Sketch Determinations: Mr. Ward: S. H. Friemann & Others - This minor subdivision is for three lots on 19.596 acres located on the north side of Main Road; 1658.7' west of Cox's Lane in Cutchogue. SCTM $1000-102-2-24. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. WHEREAS, pursuant to a judgment entered on October 5, 1992 in the matter of Friemann v. Planning Board, the Southold Town Plaruning Board was directed to process the above application as a minor snbdivision and to grant the relief therein requested; and ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 4 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 WHEREAS, a decision was rendered on December 13, i990 by the Zoning Board of Appeals on the matter of S.H. Friemann and others granting approval of insufficient frontage (lot width) along the Main Road of proposed Lot ~3 and insufficient lot depth of proposed Lot ~2, and for approval of access according to New York Town Law, Section 280-A over a private right-of-way subject to the following condition: That the access right-of-way be maintained in good condition to a minimum width of 18 feet (without obstructions) for the entire length for sufficient maneuverability by fire and emergency vehicles (pursuant to the requirements of New York Town Law); be it therefore RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant sketch approval on the map dated November 1, 1990 with the following condition: That the condition of the December 13, 1990 decision of the Zoning Board of Appeals be noted on the final map. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. ©rlowski. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. Bond Determinations: Mro Ward: Farmvew Associates - This approved major subdivision is for 47 lots on 111.764 acres located on the southwest side of Sound Avenue and Aldrich Lane in Mattituck. SCTM ~1000-121-3-2 Mr. Orlowski: I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED to adopt the bond estimate dated February 1, 1993 and to reco.m~nd same to the Town Board. The bond estimate is in the amount of $90~000.00. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 5 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Ward: Petrol Stations Ltd. - This major subdivision is for four lots on 5.836 acres located on Main Road, 264.57 feet west of Alvah's Lane in Cutchogue. SCTM 91000-109-1-23. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED to adopt the bond estimate dated Janizary 11, 1993, and to recommend same to the Town Board. The bond estimate is in the amount of $45,736.00, with an inspection fee in the amount of $2,744.00. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion so carried. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMRNTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Lead Agency Coordination: Mr. Ward: Raymond B. Gary, Raymond B. Gary & Prudence G. Gary and Fishers Island Development Corp. - This proposed lot line change is to subtract .07 acres from a (spur) private road owned by F.I.D.C.O. and add it to a 1.173 acre parcel; and subtract .06 acres from the same private spur road and add it to a 1.85 acre parcel, thus eliminating the private spur road. SCTM 91000-4-5-13 & 14. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, start the coordination process on this Type I action. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Ward: S. H. Friemann & Others - SCTM ~1000-102-2-24. ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 6 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 We've done this one. Ms. Spiro: You didn't start the Lead Agency. Mr. Ward: We didn't do the Lead Agency? Mr. McDonald: I made a motion to take the Lead Agency. Mr. Ward: O.K.. Determinations: Mr. Ward: Harvest Homes Estates, Section Two - This major subdivision is for eleven lots on 14.9 acres located on Oaklawn Avenu8 and Wells Avenue in Southold. SCTM %1000-70-3-22. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative Declaration. Mr. Orlowski: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion so carried. CHANGE OF ZONE APPLICATION Mr. Ward: Reynold and Herman Blum - Are the petitioner's here? O.K.. Petition for a change of zone from Residential-Office ("R-O") District to General Business ("B") DistriCt on certain property located on the southerly side of NYS Route 25, Cutchogue, New York. SCTT4 %1000-103-1-19.2. Does the applicant which is before the Town Board wish to present your application to us as the Planning Board? Mr. Bl-um: Yes sir. I know you haven't had a chance to look at the maps or anything but I thought I would just address the Board and tell you a little bit about why I am doing this. I have approached the Town Board asking for a Zone change on the property we have there on the south side of the highway and the general reason is to basically improve the existing business I have which is Peconic Bay Vineyards. I want to establish a gourmet cheese and craft shop to go along with the winery that : SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 7 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 we have there and also a cafe that would serve local food and wine. The present zoning is R-O which is really out of place in this area, the area is commercially zoned across the street and next door and it is not really conducive to residential use. By establishing both the gourmet cheese and craft shop I would like to offer local tourists and local people other products and a wider spectrum of products in the cafe featuring fresh local food and the wine that I produce. I expect to expand another dimension into Cutchogue since there is really no fine eating establishment in the Town other than the Fisherman's Rest. and they really only have pizza and things like that but really what you would consider gourmet local food. I want to use the existing property and buildings to hopefully its highest and best use. It is kind of a nice tranquil setting at the present time and I want to use the existing buildings and make it into something that is consistent with the area. Mr. Ward: Any questions from the Board? Mr. McDonald: You are talking about a wine and cheese and perhaps some sort of an eating establishment. You have approximately almost six acres, five and one-half, six acres? Mr. Blum: That is correct. Mr. McDonald: You feel you need all of that for a wine and cheese shop? Mr. Blum: Well, as I said the rest of the area there, parking is certainly a consideration and my i~u~ediate plans were probably to make the house into the cafe similar to, if you ever get over to Shelter Island, there is Coven's Country Kitchen which is the same type of building with a few tables inside and then with the out buildings use them for wine sales and the cheese and craft shop. Mr. McDonald: Are there two separate parcels there now? Mr. Blum: Yes, I own one and my father owns the other one. Mr. McDonald: Do you anticipate some other use on the other parcel in the business, in the deed, because you are asking for a change on that as well, right? Mr. Blum: Yes, the parcel at this time that I am selling wine out of is where I am planning on putting the craft shop in there and moving wine sales over into the other complex. Mr. McDonald: But, you must envision some use for the other parcel right. Mr. Blum: That is the craft and gift shop. At the present time, that is our retail wine outlet. What I find now is people come in and they come into the wine outlet and then say, where ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 8 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 is the winery, they want to look, they want to see barrels and tanks and look through a glass window and things like that so I want to move the wine sales over by the winery which is the large building behind the house. Mr. McDonald: What is the house presently being used for? Mr. Blum: It is presently rented to a family. Mr. McDonald: It is one family? Mr. Blum: It's one family right. I had a considerable difficult time in trying to rent that place also. Everybody that came up told me that they have a cat, a dog, or children that were all going to have problems with the highway out there and the family I have in there now, although they are happy to live in there, they were not necessarily my first choice but I had to go with that. Mr. McDonald: They couldn't be any worse than the kids that used to live there. Mr. Orlowski: Hey! Mr. Blum: When the kids used to live there the traffic wasn't the same but as someone else told me a few years ago when we were talking about residential use in this area, with King Kullen across the street at night time you can practically read a newspaper until midnight when they turn the lights off. Now, one of the things that I am looking at, I am not looking at something that is going to have night lights like that but I'm looking at a afternoon lunch type affair. Mr. McDonald: You felt that you need to be all the way to the back of the property? Mr. Blum: No, it is not the back of the property. Mr. McDonald: I mean the back of what is presently zoned for the R-O. Mr. Blum: That is correct. That line happens to be coexistent with Braun's on the next side so it just followed the property line. Mr. Ward: Did you happen to look at the "LB" Zone? Is there a reason you are asking for a "B" verses the "LB"? Mr. Blum: I looked at it and I really couldn't understand what the differences were between the two. Mr. Ward: There are things that you kind of described are things that were intended to be in the "LB" Zone rather than an ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 9 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 intensive building out to property lines which almost the "B" zone allows for. Mr. Blum: I did look at that and quite frankly I couldn't see too much of a difference between the two. You can offer a suggestion on that aspect. Mr. McDonald: Does "LB" allowed a restaurant? Mr. Ward: I think it does. Mr. McDonald: I am not sure you can get the use on that. Mr. Ward: I think you can. Mr. Blum: I did see that everything surrounding is all "B" with the exception of on the corner of Cox Lane, Kaelin's, the back section there was "LB". Mr. McDonald: The adjacent property to you is "RO" as well right, the adjacent property to the East? Mr. Blum: Yes, the property to the East is "RO" and to the West is "B". Mr. McDonald: Then it goes back to "RO" on the way back into (inaudible) yes or no? Mr. Blum: No, there is no other "RO" in the area. I believe the next "RO" is down by Alvah's Lane. Mr. Ward: Valerie, the "LB" allows for the restaurant use doesn't it? Ms. Scopaz: I don't recall. I would have to go check. Mr. Ward: Thank you very much. Mr. McDonald: I just have a question. Do you feel that this is the difference as to whether your business makes it or not? Mr. Blum: We are making it now but it will certainly improve the viability. I don't have the highest exposure. When you think of Long Island wines, you don't think of Peconic Bay first. You think of Pindar or one of the larger operations over there who produce fine quality hand crafted wines. By joining them with a cafe and gourmet foods and things like that I am hoping that the business will certainly change and be more profitable for us. We can always use more exposure. I constantly get requests from people asking where they can go to eat for lunch and I look around and I say if you are heading west I can send you to the Jamesport Country Kitchen and if you are heading east during the day time I'm asking myself is $OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 10 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Ross' open or not, I'm not sure or I'll say well maybe you can try Armando's. There isn't too much in there. Mr. McDonald: The property that the vineyard sits on is attached to one or both of these lots? Mr. Blum: It is part of the western parcel, it is all joined. That is one piece. Mr. McDonald: The larger barn is yours? Mr. Blum: Which is the larger barn? Mr. McDonald: Do you anticipate anytime in the future separating this property? Mr. Btum: Separating them? I don't have any thoughts along that line at all. Mr. McDonald: So the idea is, you would like to make your business more viable to try to help you do what you need to do to continue to grow as a vineyard. That would mean thatthe attachment of these two parcels is useful in the future for the continuants of the vineyard because it supports it and that is your intent? Mr. Blum: Absolutely, I cannou cut off my frontage on the highway. Mr. McDonald: Thank you. Mr. Kiernan: Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask a question. Mr. Blum, do you have an attorney representing you on this? Mr. Blum: Not right now. Mr. Kiernan: I don't mean to imply that you do need one but there may be ways to speed up the process a little bit. I don't know if you are planning new construction on the lot which you propose a zone change but possibly if you had a site plan application that you wanted to submit concurrently with the zone change application, it could save you time. in the long run. The Planning Board might be able to tack it on with a super analysis on the zone change as well. Mr. Blum: Time is obviously a criteria and I approached an architectural firm and asked them about doing a site plan on this and there advise to me was that they would be more than happy to do this but why should we get involved in something like this if the zone change is not going to come along. Why throw good money away? Mr. Kiernan: Just a consideration. SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 11 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Blum: O.K. sure. I guess you are also aware of the fact that this application is $1000.00 dollars to start with and it is something I seriously thought about and I do want to go through with it and I didn't know if I needed an attorney to do such an application. I ~idn't feel that I probably needed one but certainly if it can speed things up, I am interested. But, then once again to go and spend a lot of money on all kinds of plans just to put them on the shelf. Mr. Kiernan: Maybe I opened a can of worms. I not meaning to imply that you need one. Mr. Ward: Alright, thank you very much. Mr. Ward: Also on our agenda tonight we have Mr. Raynor to discuss Peconic Homes. Mr. Raynor: It is interesting to sit here and listen to Mr. Blum expound ~hout why he needs some form of light business. Not that this has anything to do with Peconic Homes but it ~eminds me a~out twelve years ago when the Board stood up and saidwe recol£~en~ some form of light business in the exact Location that Mrl Blum is indicating. Meanwhile Peconic ~omes at present is seeking some guidance from the Board and you are aware that ~t~_~re are two brothers and principals involved with this forty ~f£Ve acre tract of property, p I~t has been on off, on off, for nine or ten years and I think finally we are ~eading in some ~irection. Not that I have been involved with it for of time, it probably woul~ have been longer if I was it. But, the brothers have finally reached a decision the disposition of this Board that they would take the acres on which one of them pres~ntI¥ has residence, ~p four lots in a minor subdivision mode given a variance with regard to road construction, they would intend to have the existing right of way which meanders~tllrough their property and doWn to the lake to others in Laurel. A gravel ~oad in keeping, a~tuallyan improvement of what is there today if you are familiar with the Laurel Lake right of way. The greenhouse operation on the northwesterly section of the property they would like to section off to utilize~as just that. A greenho~me operation to compromise approximately twelve acres at its maximum disposal. The remainder of the property they would be willing to covenant and restrict, be put into a form of development rights acquisition be it either Town, County or any other agency. If the Board does not feel that this is the proper way to go, that it does not fit with the plans that are ongoing in the area, that they foresee to be ongoing in the area, then obviously they would be willing to withdraw this plan and go on a major subdivision approach which would yield somewhere in the neighborhood of twenty h~mes. I understand that there has been some questions and confusion that has been with the prin~ipals themselves i~ trying to decide which way ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 12 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 they want to go with this. I am here tonight to see what direction the Board might want to give this particular subdivision. Mr. Ward: I would guess that what is the driving equation here is what is this quote "open space" what condition are they looking for on that? What open end is there going to be on that? Mr. Raynor: The open end is they get a fair market value for their development rights. I don't want to be placed in a situation where the Town or the County said well, you have bargained away X, Y, and Z by doing a minor subdivision, therefore we are going to give you fifty percent of your development rightvalue. Mr. Ward: Come back on that one again, I missed that. Mr. Raynor: I see such extremes foreinstance last week in the paper as far as thirty thousand dollars an acre being proposed for certain parcels in the town for development rights and these people are business men and they looked at it and said, what is going on here? A, we would like to have our ongoing business which is our greenhouse business. B, we all want to live here. Four lots, take care of the brothers and some key employees that are on the parcel. C, we don't want to give up the remaining density for nothing. We want to be in a position where we can enter into either a development right plan by the Town or by the County where we can recoup some of the capital-sxpendit~r~ which we put into the forty five acres. Fir. McDonald: The twelve acres have'been reserved for the greenhouse area. Now, I am not sure I understand. There is a greenhouse operation there now? Mr. Raynor: That is correct. Mr. McDonald: Is there anything else operating on the site? Mr. Raynor: Not to my knowledge. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: How many houses are presently serviced by the right of way that is there now, do you know? Mr. Raynor: Lee, Jacoby and if you take the east perimeter of that property you will find you tie into the Macari subdivision. Again, that is why I am coming back to the Board because I don't know what, if anything you have envisioned for, I think McCarey has sixty some odd acres to the east of this property. I don't know what the game plan is there or the disposition of roadway. fOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 13 FRRRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. McDonald: Is it a house or two houses past the end of their property in this right of way? Mr. Raynor: I would say that there are at least two down there. There may be more~ there may be as many as three or four down there. Years ago, there was a camp at the end of it which burned down about ten years ago. That would be to the left of the right of..way. Mr. McDonald: I was down there a couple of years ago and I don't remember. There are no houses presently on any of the lots they propose in their subdivision? Mr. Raynor: They have an out parcel, they have several out parcels, this was developed years and years ago. Lot $2 has an existing. Mr. McDonald: The out parcel has a house? Mr. Raynor: Yes, was down there when the Kerups owned this. Mr. McDonald: Lot three and four? Mr. Raynor: I don't believe either of those at the time. Mr. McDonald: So, we are looking at least four houses being served. Turned tape, everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: So there are least four serviced by this presently and you are talking about adding two more to that number. Mr. Ward: Maybe to clarify things Henry, this remaining open space or large lot or whatever we are going to call it for now, if you could co~Ltit something to writing to what the deal is on that, in other words what are they zeally saying. Mr. Raynor: What they are saying is, should they be provided with (A) a four lot minor (B) the operation of the greenhouse, there will be no more residential density on the remainder of the property. Mr. Ward: Yes, but they are saying other than the twelve acres, the rest they could develop at a future date if they don't get the development rights. Mr. Raynor: No, not at all. Mr. McDonald: What happens if no one will pop up the money? ~OUTHOLD PLA~NING BOARD 14 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Raynor: I don't know. You are telling me that the programs are about to stop, then obviously there won't be any more development rights purchased. Mr. Ward: We don't know that that's there to drive the' equation that is what I am saying. Mr. Raynor: I can't answer the Board's question as to what type of capital budget is coming up. Mr. Ward: What I am saying is, look at it the other way. What if? In other words, we are asking the applicant now. Let's say, that we would agree that that is a good idea and we went ahead with it but what happens if it doesn't happen? Mr. Raynor: Well, then I would suggest that the gentlemen standing over everybody's shoulder up there come up with a mechanism for stopping that. Mr. Kiernan: Maybe the way to do it is to approach the Town and the County with development rights program right now and get at least appraisal's done on what the current market value is today and come back with those numbers and maybe you and your client's will see where you are and maybe you will get an indication of where the Town and where the County is in their programs and that might eliminate that question from the equation. Mr. McDonald: The only thing I can give you on that is that we tried that a couple of years ago and now we are a couple of years down the road and we are not any closer because no one is prepared to move on this at this point and that is what we are worried about but there is no money. Is there a time frame that they are prepared to, this isn't going to happen instantaneously, they want to move ahead with the subdivision. Is there some time frame that they would set for the remaining acres for the TDR t0 be taken care of. Mr. Raynor: Let me bounce it back to you. Come back with a reasonable time frame and I don't think there is a problem. The driving force here seems to be for the client's privacy. Any structure whether it be involved with years or dollars or mechanisms, somewhere down the line we may see TDR's. Mr. McDonald: Well that's it, the question is if we get enough years together to get to that point. Mr. Raynor: They can sell it at an average market price. And again, I am presenting to you gentlemen what I have been told by the client. If they can get an average market price based on development rights sales, they would be more than willing to put it into that program. They just do not want to be locked into a position where an agency comes and says, well you bargained away your rights, now we are going to give you a unreasonable market value for the remainder of your property. ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 15 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Orlowski: What type of road do they plan on building in here. Mr. Raynor: This was predicated on a gravel road. Mr. Orlowski: Just what is there right now basically? Mr. Raynor: No, it would be an improved gravel road, certainly more than what is there right now. Everyone talking. Mr. Ward: We have to worry about the open space right now. Mr. Latham: How large is the greenhouse area? Mr. Raynor: The maximum that they have indicated they wanted to go was twelve acres and I think that should be site restrictive. There are large densities concerned as far as lot coverage is concerned. Mr. Ward: Maybe what we could do in the interim while we are trying to come up with some mechanism to bounce back to you would be to give us a survey updated with the greenhouses on it and what ever else is there and what line they wo~ld like to see at the time being as this twelve acre area so we could consider the overall. That is kind of missing on this one. Mr. Raynor: Sorry. If you would address some of that in correspondence, I would be happy to respond. Mr. McDonald: Is there some way we can keep down the price so they can just give us .... . There isn't even an application before us for this if I'm not mistaken. Maybe they can just sketch it in. I understand we want to have a relatively accurate representation but by the same extent, we don't want to drive the cost of this, considering that we are now really only chitchatting. Mr. Ra!rnor: That is exactly right because I don't want it to go forward or find we are headed down the wrong path. Mr. McDonald: I like the idea of being able to see it a little bit better but by the same extent I don't want them to go out and have to shell out a lot of money in order to get to that point. Mr. Raynor: We can give you an arbitrary line, twelve acres as far as the greenhouses are concerned. Mr. Orlowski: This is 1985, this map. Is there anything newer than this? ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 16 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Raynor: Not a thing because they have, since it was rejected originally, they went back and said, we will in this case just optimize our investment, put the management density on and go forward with the major subdivision and quite honestly they have had about thoUghts abo~t it. Mr. Kiernan: Henry, have your client's approached the land preservation committee with this? Mr. Raynor: No, not with this. It will be a tax driven consideration certainly if there is something there. (Inaudible). Right now, they are very meanable for suggestions. Mr. Kiernan: Mark, isn't this in the special groundwater protection zone? Mr. McDonald: These lots are pretty large lots. Was there any particular reason for making them that large? Is it because of the slopes that are on them? Mr. Ra!rnor: Entirely for privacy. There is secondary wood growth on it at this point and some of it has primary on it. Mr. McDonald: There is a large hunk of this in the, I guess it would be the southern section or the southern most of the southwestern section that is wetlands? Mr. Raynor: There is some marshland in the lowest part of the southwest corner. Mr. McDonald: Is that part of this parcel being counted into the acreage? The way it is drawn here is a little bit confusing. Mr. Ralrnor: It is very confusing. When I looked at it, I interpreted both ways. Mr. McDonald: O.K., maybe you can try to find out if that parcel, when you are talking about the twelve acres, the amount of land left over for the development right, if this part of that is being included in the number over there, some of which this land is, of course you wouldn't know (inaudible). Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: Why don't you find out if that is part of the acreage. Everyone talking. Mr. Raynor: I don't anticipate that being a problem. unbuildable. It is Everyone talking. ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 17 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Raynor: seen it. Mr. Ward: In your recollection is there an approved yield map on this property? Mr. Raynor: Oh yeah. Mr. Ward: That is what drives the twenty-two lots? Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: I think this lot is the same as this one. These lots are one in the same. They are contiguous. They are the same lot the way it is proposed and the right of way lies entirely within this line. Mr. Raynor: The right of way would be in lot one as indicated. Mr. McDonald: And that wetlands section is also part of lot ~1. That is the way I am interpreting it. Everyone talking. Mr. Raynor: I would interpret it as part of Lot ~4 but it doesn't show the square footage. Mr. McDonald: See, the lines aren't crossing over. Mr. Raynor: But, it goes around the perimeter to the south and then to the west and swings back again to the north but it doesn't have closure on the northwest corner of ~4. Mr. McDonald: Can you make a guess on the area of that? Mr. Raynor: The lower tail? I would say it's four acres. Everyone talking. I made this arbitrary line and they haven't even Mr. McDonald: You made some major changes to the end of this. Everyone talking. Mr. Ward: O.K. so you will get back to us with whatever we need. Mr. Raynor: Yes. Mr. Ward: O.K., one final item. 19, 1992 minutes. Board to approve the October Mr. McDonald: So moved. ~ ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 18 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Orlowski: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion so carried. Mr. Ward: Is there any other business to come before the Board this evening? Johanna Northum: I am here in a sense to educate myself. I have a few q~estions. I am fairly new in Southold and the first question I have is, when a developer buys property, is there a time limit before he can put in place his proposal. Mr. Ward: Not really, if it is a subdivision, it can sit vacant for a number of years and then the quote "developer" or owner could then present to this Board" but, they it would be by making an application first. Ms. Northum: Is that in the best interest of the Town of Southold? Should we have a time limit like other towns do? Mr. McDonald: There areother town's which have time limits? MSo Northum: I believe so. Mr. McDonald: I would have thought that ownership alone would have given you the right to make application for anything you are entitled to under the law. But, if other town's do then that is something that we would definitely like to know about. Ms. Northum: Are there some developers holding property more than ten years? Mr. Ward: I would say there are people out here that have held property for a hundred years. Ms. Northum: I guess what I am talking about is a developer who plans to put homes in that area. Mr. Ward: Maybe what you are saying is, somebody bought a piece of property ten years ago, they filed maps with us to develop a piece of property and now they haven't developed it. Ms. Northum: Right. Mr. Ward: Well, that is a little different. Mr. McDonald: Could you do that again please, I'm lost. ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 19 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Ward: If somebody filed a map ten years ago. Mr. McDonald: This is an approved filed subdivision. Mr. Ward: Approved subdivision map and they have not made any improvements. Mr. McDona~ Mr. Ward: Mr. McDona[ significant applies. S roads. 1: Oh, you are talking about the three year limit. hight. ~: The recent court decisions indicated if any improvements have been made, that law no longer [gnificant in court cases has been roughing in the Mr. Kiernan where a der1 then the T~ on the zone he is entit gained his' ~ree and re build under Ms. Northum zoning am I Mr. Ward: : What Mark is talking mbout is also a situation ~loper comes in and gets his subdivision approved ~n decides to change the zone and change the density and the question will become whether the owner has, [ed to a automatic three year exemption, if he has Tested rights within those three years, he is home ~ardless of what the Town does, he is entitled to the original application. : I see. So, in other words, now it is two acre correct. It depends where you are. Ms. Northum: So, if a developer had submitted his proposal prior to I forget when we passed it that it is now up zoned to two acres ih some special groundwater protection areas is now five acres? Mr. Ward: Well, that is a proposal. Ms. Northum: That's just a proposal, even with a reco~t~,endation by the Nassau Suffolk Regional Planning Board it hasn't been adopted. Mr. Ward: Correct. Ms. Northum: And, the reason for it not being adopted? Mr. Ward: Well, it is under consideration b¥ the Town Board who adopts zoning. We could recoLm~,end it and they have recommended it and there is also a transfer development rights program being reviewed by the Town right now so there are concerns about this groundwater protection area. How it is going to be protected is being studied right now. Ms. Northum: Second question. There are two projects I believe where the developer was able to down zone because he put ~ ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 20 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 a percentage of homes that would be affordable. Is that two developments? There is one High Meadow. Mr. McDonald: There are two, Southold Villas and DBM on Boisseau Avenue. Those are the two that have received affordable housing. The third one is Cedarfields but that wasn't affordable housing, it was by covenants and restrictions. Fir. Orlowski: It was voluntary but we went along with it. Mr. McDonald: But, they granted them a different zone. Mr. Orlowski: Right. Ms. Northum: What is the percentage of affordable houses? Mr. McDonald: 50%, to for affordable housing zone change inlthis town qualify you must supply 50% in the affordable housing category. Ms. Northum: Has that been done? Mr. McDonald: To our knowledge in both of those subdivisions it has been. Cedarfields was not affordable housing designation but yes, it has complied to that standard as well. Ms. Northum: So when they put affordable housing, they are able to down zone the entire project to half an acre per house? Mr. Kiernan: They get about double the density, is that right? Mr. McDonald: No, you can go to four if you are at R-80 if you have public water. You are allowed to go as low as 20,000 square feet so if you are two acre, you can pick four fold increase. Ms. Northum: My concern and I had presented my concern when we were talking about affordable housing is that it could be used by developers as a ploy sort of speak. In other parts of the country there are villages and municipalities and what they are doing is going and buying up foreclosed property, upgrading some homes and habitat as an example. I was wondering instead of going on this project of getting a developer to come in and said yes, he would come in and put X amount of affordable homes and then he gets the down zoning and then we get more inundated. There was a discussion about the County taking over foreclosed property and perhaps the Town of Southold would he able to look at these homes and fix them up and perhaps it would be cheaper. I mean, this is just a suggestion because I feel uncomfortable when I read about a developer coming in and saying O.K., I'm am going to put some affordable housing into this project. ~ ~ ~OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 21 FEBRUARY 8, 1993 Mr. Ward: Ms. Scopaz would like to say something but before that, is that the intent of the affordable housing program in this Town is not to allow it to go throughout the Town but to be concentrated in the hamlet areas within a half a mile essentially the post office so, you wouldn't see this, you are calling it a down zoning, an increased density happening out on a farmland someplace, you know what I am saying in that sense. So, it's the guidelines of the program force it to be within the confines of quote, the hamlets. Ms. Scopaz: In answer to your question, you should be aware that the Town of Southold is working on other things. The Planning Board is not involved in them. Jim McMahon, is the director of Community Development and works with the North Fork Housing Alliance and together they work to get Federal and State Funding and they have been rehabilitating houses for many, many years and they do this sort of thing. They buy run down properties and they renovate them and then they rent them or they sell them. They work with landlords to upgrade properties and I don't believe that there are that many foreclosures on the North Fork but, I am sure Jim McMahon would be able to answer your questions. There is a significant amount of money that is being used for that. (Inaudible~. Ms. Northum: Thank you. Mr. Blum: I just would ask for an answer to a question. With reference to the depth of the property. It is 327 feet to this point here and in the past the Town has looked at 400 feet as being the maximum set back off of the highway. Mr. Ward: It varies. Mr. Blum: The other thing is that at some point you or Valerie could tell me what else if anything the Planning Board would need from me. Mr. Ward: Well, if in fact a zone change goes through, your next step would be if you are going to make improvements there, you would need a site plan and you would come before the site plan reviewers. Mr. Blum: Is there anything between now and the time that the Town Board acts on tkis that you will need? Mr. McDonald: They will ask us for our recon~endation but right now there is nothing else to really be done. I guess if we had further questions, we would probably contact the Town Board. Mr. Ward: Yes, our response would be through the Town Board. ~OU~OLD PLANNING BOARD 22 FEBRU~Y 8, 1993 Mr. Blum: O.K., thank you. Mr. Ward: Any other business? Board: No further business. Mr. Latham: I move we adjourn. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Ward: Motion carried. Being there was no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 8:25 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Jane Rousseau, Secretary Richard Ward, Chairman RECEIVED AND FILED BY T~ SOUTHOLD TOWN C~ DATE/I-~ -~$ ~OUR To-,~_ Clerk, To;,*~ oi Soufi~old