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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-01/11/1993PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS Richard G. Ward. Chairman George Ritchte Latham, Jr. Bennett Ortowski, Jr. Mark S. McDonald Kenneth L. Edwards Telephone (516] 765-1938 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD SCOqfT L. HARRIS Supervisor Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P. O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax [516) 765 - 1823 MINUTES JANUARY 11, 1993 Present were: Richard Ward, Chairman Bennett Orlowski, Jr. G. Richie Latham Kenneth Edwards Mark McDonald Matt Kiernan, Town Attorney Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner Melissa Spiro, Planner Holly Perrone, Secretary Mr. Ward: First order of business is to set the next Planning Board Meeting. Board to set Monday, February 8, 1993 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board Meeting. Mr. McDonald: So moved. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So carried. PUBLIC HEARINGS - FINALS Mr. Ward: 7:30 p.m. Francis Greenberger - This major subdivision is for four lots on 15.581 acres located on the north side of Eugene's Road; 381.54 feet west of Bay Avenue in Cutchogue. SCTM ~1000-97-3-18.1. At this time we have proof of SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 2 JANUARY 11, 1993 publication in the local papers. Are there any comments on this subdivision? Is anyone opposed to this subdivision? Does anybody have any comments neither pro nor con but might like to make some comments on this subdivision? Henry Raynor: I am representing Francis Greenberger. I don't think we are 381 square feet west but we might be west of that location. The Board is well aware that this is a four lot subdivision on fifteen and one half acres and the Planning Board has given us a Negative Declaration under State Environmental Quality Review Act and has approved the sketch plan on this proposed subdiviSion. We presently have the Suffolk County Department Of Health Services approvals and they have been updated in our (inaudible). The fire well has been located on the southwest corner of this proposed subdivisio~ as per specification of the Cutchoque Fire District. Covenants and Restrictions requested by the Suffolk County Department of Health Services have been filed and have been recorded in the County Clerk's Office as well as the covenants and restrictions required by your Board which has been filed and also recorded in the County Clerk's Office. Through an omission, the liber and page do not appear with regard tO the Planning Board's covenants and restrictions so I will see that that is amended and added within the next few days. I have reference to the Planning Board's letter of December 15th as there remain two items outstanding. The inspection fee based on the bond estimate and the performance guarantee at a amount of $70,125.00. I would request the Board consider holding signature of this map for up to sixty days. The reason being the applicanthas proceeded to finish all the upgrading on tkis subdivision and c~m~,encing the end of this week or the first part of next week we will have all the drainage facilities installed. It is my understanding that he meant (inaudible). We are in hopes that the guarantee and the performance guarantee could be reduced with regard to major capitol construction. I would also request that the Planning Board consider along with the Town Engineer a revision of the paving specifications as it is obvious from the map that this roadway will only be utilized by four lots. This provision of course, is provided for under 106-51. I also believe that the map as you see it before you with the exceptions noted is in complete conformity with the code under Section A106 and we would request approval with the conditions so forwarded. If the Board has any questions, I would be more than happy to try and answer them. Mr. McDonald: What is the spec on the road now? Mr. Raynor: I am a little confused as to what the spec on the road is at this point. 'With the various changes, this has gone through a classification (inaudible) and several specifications have changed subsequent to that entitlement as for a major subdivision so if you think I am confused, I am. I would just as soon the Town Engineer looked at this and gave us what he SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 3' JANUARY 11, 1993 feels is reasonable and this is also the request on behalf of the applicant. Mr. Ward: Are there any other comments regarding this subdivision? No further comments, I will entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Edwards: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr,Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Does the Board have any further action they would like to take this evening? Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. WHEREAS, Francis Greenberger, is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM ~1000-97-3-18.1, located at the north side of Eugene's Road; 381o54' west of Bay Avenue in Cutchogue; and WHEREAS, this major subdivision, is for four lots on 15.581 acres; and WHEREAS, t~e Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on April 11, 1988; and WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on JanUary 11, 1993; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and be it therefore, RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final approval on the surveys dated January 27, 1992, subject to fulfillment of ~he following conditions. All conditions must be met within six (6) months of the date of this resolution. J. Submission of the Performance Guarantee in the amount of $70,125.00. 2. Submission of the inspection fee in the amount of $4,208.00. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 4 JANUARY 11,. 1993 Submission of a letter from each public utility company whose facilities are proposed to be installed in the proposed subdivision. Such letter shall state that the utility company will make the installations necessary for the furnishing of its services. Ail final maps (5 paper prints and 2 my~ars) must contain the Liber and Page number of the filed Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions. NOTE FOR THE RECORD that we anticipate the applicant coming back in for a reduction in bond pursuant to what Mr. Raynor has already said to us. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Subdivisions- Preliminary: Mr. Ward: 7:35 p.m. Harbor Homes - This major subdivision is for five lots on 9.04 acres tocated on the west side of Harbor Lane; 675 feet south of Main Road in Cutchogue. SCTM $1000-97-6-17; 103 -1-20.5 and 20.6. At this time, I would like to ask if there is anyone here that would be Opposed to this subdivision? Is there anyone in opposition to this subdivision? Is there anyone here in favor of this subdivision? Mr. Lark: Good evening. I represent the applicants. I think we have complied with all of the requirements to obtain preliminary approval and as I understand it this is for preliminary approval and then later on you are~going tO review the bond estimate because Ilknow Mrl Chester Orlowski wanted to talk to you about that. But, as to the preliminary approval, unless the Board has some questions, t. would respectfully urge to move that you approve it so we can go ahead with our Article VI process with the Suffolk County Health Department then we can get back to you with final maps because I understand now they require covenants on all subdivisions with private wells and so on and so forth so we can get back to a final hearing on this one. Mr. Ward: Are there any further co.,.ents? Is there anyone else who would like to say anything regarding this particular subdivision either pro nor con? Hearing no further comments~ I would like to entertain a motion from the Board to close this hearing. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 5 JANUARY 11, 1993 Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward. Abstain: Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So ordered. Would you like to entertain a motion on the bond for this subdivision? Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman~ I make a motion. RESOLVED to adopt the bond estimate dated December 1, 1992 and to reco~m~end same to the Town Board. The bond estimate is in the amount of $38,850.00, with an inspection fee in the amount of $2,230.00. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Abstain: Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: OpPosed? So ordered. Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a further resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, grant preliminary approval on the maps dated September 22, 1992, for the major subdivision of Harbor Park Estates subject to the following conditions: 1. The area of Lot ~3 located on the north side of the 50' wide piece of land reserved for a possible future road, shall not be considered a building lot in perpetuity. This shall be so stated in a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions. 2. The front and side yards shall b~ established for Lot ~4 and Lot ~5. The front yard for Lot #4 shall be on the south side of the lot. The front yard for Lot ~5 shall be on the north side of the lot. The side yard for both lots shall be at least 60' from the rear yard of the existing lots that front on Harbor Lane. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mro Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 6 JANUARY 11, 1993 Abstain: Mr. Ward: Mr. Orlowski. Opposed? Motion carried. ********************************************* Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Orlowski: Hiltcrest Estates, Section 2 - This major subdivision is for 20 lots on 22,9 acres located in Orient. SCTM ~1000-13-2-8.2. Mr. Edwards: I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED to keep the hearing open while the client continues to pursue the Suffolk County Department of Health Services. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Ward: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3.743 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck Road in Mattituck. SCTM ~1000=113-8-5. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. I would like to make a motion to keep the hearing open until the Planning Board is in receipt of a final decision from the Zoning Board of Appeals. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 7 JANUARY 11, 1993 Final Extensions: Mr. Ward: Summit Estates, Section 1 - Section 1 of this major subdivision is for ten lots on 17.5036 acres located on the southwest corner of Main Road (NYS 25) and Shipyard Lane in East Marion. SCTM ~1000-35-8-5.3. Mr. Orlowski: I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a 90 day extension of conditional final approval of Section 1, from December 8, i992 to March 8, 1993. Conditional final approval was granted on 'June 8, 1992. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ortowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Preliminary Determination: Mr. Ward: Highpoint Woods aka Marion Woods - This major subdivision is for ten lots on 20.5668 acres located on the north side of Main Road in East Marion. SCTM ~1000-22-3-5 & 31-4-15.1 & 31-4-15.2. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED to adopt the Suffolk County Planning Commission's resolution of Disapproval dated November 5, 1992. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a further motion. RESOLVED to adopt the November 13, 1992 report from the Engineering Inspector. Mr. Edwards: Second. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 8 JANUARY 11, 1993 Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? So carried. Mr. McDonald: I would like to make a further motion. WHEREAS the Southold Town Planning Board has reviewed the preliminary maps in regard to the use of the open space provided as a result of the cluster design, and in regard to the surrounding area; and WHEREAS as a result of this review, the Planning Board has concluded that including the open space in an Open Space Easement Area with a building envelope, as indicated on the proposed preliminary maps dated December 8, 1992, will not benefit the future property owners of the proposed subdivision, the neighbors of the proposed subdivision, or the community as a whole because limiting ownership of the open space for the use of one lot owner excludes the other lot owners from utilizing the open space area. Further, it limits the future use of the property to create a continuous greenbelt in the area as shown on the attached Open Space }Concept Plan for the northeastern part of East Marion dated 1992, prepared by the Planning Board; and WHEREAS the Planning Board has been in favor of including ~the open space in an Agricultural Easement Area with the building envelope in other subdivisions. However, these were done i order to prevent prime agricultural land from reverting to old field and woodland and being lost to farming, which is more likely to happen if it is left in a Homeowners Association than if it is sold to a farmer. The design of the Open Space Easement proposed for Highpoint Woods is not consistent with this concept of creating a viable piece of agricultural land. Although the soils on the Site are suited to crops commonly grown in the county, the site has major limitations, including the fact that the open areas have not been farmed in years and would require extensive work to clear the vegetation to make farming possible; Be'it therefore RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant preliminary approval on the maps dated December 8, 1992, with the following conditions: The open space for this clustered subdivision s~hall be owned by a Homeowners Association. No buildings or structures shall be allowed in this area. 2. Lot No. 10 shall be located adjacent to the lot indicated as Lot No. 9 on the map dated September 25, SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 9 JANUARY 11, 1993 o e 1992, within Block A (See attached map for designation of Block A and Block B). The maps shall be in compliance with the November 13, 1992 report from the Town's Engineering Inspector. A Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions shall be prepared to include the following: The Natural Vegetation Retention Buffer area shown on the subdivision map shall remain in its natural state. Maintesance of the natural vegetation shall be the only use or activity allowed. No structures shall be allowed within this area. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. iward, Mr- Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Preliminary Extensions Mr. Ward: ~mmit Estates~ Section 2 and Section 3. - SCTM ~1000-35-8-5.3. Mr. McDonald: I would~ like to make a motion. RESOLVED, that the So~thold Planning Board grant a retro-active one year extension of preliminary approval of Section 2 and Section ~3 from August 25, 1992 to August 25, 1993. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr~ Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Opposed? ~otion carried. Sketch Extensions Mr. Ward: Ernest & Jean Schneider - This minor subdivision is for three lots on 13.423 acres located on the southwest side of Alvah's Lane; 1347.3 feet northwest of C.R. 48 in Cutchogue. SCTM ~1000-95-3-10~ 101-1-14.3. SOUT~OLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 10 JANUARY 11, 1993 Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six month extension of sketch approval from January 13, 1992 to July 13, 1993. ~lease note that this is the last extension that the Planning Board will be granting. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald. Mro Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Ward: Annette Zabohonski - ~nis subdivision is for two lots on 5.91 acres located on Crescent Avenue on Fishers Island SCTM ~i000-6-2-1. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six month extension of sketch approval from January 13, 1993 to July 13, 1993. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mro Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Review of Reports - Suffolk County Planning Commission Mr. Ward: Highpoint Woods - SCTM'~1000-22-3v5 & 31-4L15.1 & 31-4-15.2. This was dOne. Review of Reports: Engineering Mr. Ward: Highpoint Woods - SCTM ~1000-22-3-5 & 31-4-15.1 & 31-4-15.2. This was done. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 11 JANUARY 11, 1993 MAJOR A~D MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Lead Agency Coordination: Mr. Ward: John S. McGeeney& Edward F. Rodenbach, Trus. - This proposed lot line change is to subtract 11,485 square feet from a 65,966 square foot parcel and add it to a 20,482 square foot parcel located on Avenue B on Fishers Island. SCTM ~1000-6-2-5 & 6. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, start the coordination process on this Type I action. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. SITE PLANS: Final Determinations: Mr. Ward: Brewer Yacht Yard - This proposed site plan is for the addition of a maintenance and storage building, a pool and a club house with snack bar and rest room facilities at an existing marina and yacht yard. Clubhouse to be relocated to pool area, located on Manhasset Avenue and Beach Road in Greenport. SCTM $1000-43-3-2. Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion. WHEREAS, Brewer Yacht Yard at Greenport, Inc. is the owner of the property known and designated as Brewer Yacht Yard SCTM $1000-43-3-2, located at S/W/C Manhasset Avenue and Beach Road; and WHEREAS, a formal application for the approval of this site plan was submitted on October 21, 1992; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 12 JANUARY 11, 1993 declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on December 14, 1992; and WHEREAS, a Special Exception was granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals on October 15, 1992; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Site Plan Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; be it therefore, RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant final approval and authorize the Chairman to sign the final survey last revised December 20¥ 1992 subject to one year review from the date of Certificate of Occupancy. Site must be constructed in accordance with the approved plans. If conditions in the field prevent construction in accordance with this approved site plan, please notify this office before proceeding with construction. Mr. Ortowski: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. (Chairman endorsed maps.) APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES Mr. Ward: Board to approve the September 14, 1992 minutes. Mr. McDonald: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mro Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So carried. Mr. Ward: Any more business to be brought before the meeting. Mr. PeterDanowski: I would just like to speak to the Board in regard to two matters. One is not on the agenda but I did submit some new maps for the North Forty and I presume you have SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 13 JANUARY 11, 1993 had a chance to review the new maps and I am looking forward to trying to file the maps if they do meet with this Board's approval. If you recall this was the agricultural land of a large lot with a building envelope. Mr. Ward: Do we have any comments on that? Mr. McDonald: session. Well, I know we looked at it at the last work Everyone talking. Ms. Spiro: We were looking at the development rights on the next piece, remember we got into that? Mr. McDonald: We want to do a little more research on the adjacent pieces to make sure that we have it all tied up. Mr. Orlowski: I have a question while you are here. You put a drainage easement right in the middle of the agricultural land? Mr. Danowski: That drainage easement was the same area that we submitted, I'm just guessing a year ago, that met with this Board's approval. We didn't see a difference in concept with it being used for agricultural and bearing in mind, that the use intended now as a horse farm and that was a natural place to let the water flow and that is the way it was designed whether a homeowners association had it or not you could catch water naturally in that area and that is the reason the engineers placed it in that location. If we were raising potatoes or something, I think we would have a different concept but I think with the horses we have a little different approach here. Mr. McDonald: Was it the intent that there would probably never be any water in the bottom of this? Ken Abruzzo: Probably not. Mr. McDonald: You think there is a strong possibility? It is uncertain. Mr. Abruzzo: You also have some diffusion wells in there so if there is any buildup of water in there, it would run right off. I think what you are really looking at here is just a very shallow swale system that will r~n through this forum. Mr. McDonald: I remember what was on the map, but I didn't see the calculations. Mr. Abruzzo: When you get it over a very, very large area and with the diffusion wells or the leaching pools in the bottom of this thing it will always have a positive drain even if the SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 14 JANUARY 11, 1993 bottom is sitkened up and we are look actually at just a large swale area. Mr. Ward: What percent of slopes are there? Mr. Abruzzo: It looks to me probably a one on ten. Mr. McDonald: You are talking about doing some regrading to make this happen. Mr. Abruzzo: Yes. It looks to me like we are talking about a one on ten, this is a hundred scale map and we have a two foot drop and it has to be almost twenty feet. So, it is a very shallow slope in this big area. Mr. Orlowski: Are you going to leave that natural or grade that out? Mr. Abruzzo: This will be graded somewhat. Mr. McDonald: You weren't anticipating a fence around this? Mr. Abruzzo: No. Mr~ McDonald: Did you do a calculation for any size storm assuming that it had to retain a two inch or six inch storm. · How deep the water would be in the bottom at that time? Mr. Abruzzo: We used a six inch rainfall (inaudible) and we figured out that between the bottom and the drainage area we could hold approximately 129,000 cubic feet. Required under the Town's requirements there are 126,000 feet. Mr. McDonald: Think about the depth though, that is a complicated calculation because it is not linear. Everyone talking. Mr. Abruzzo: Our high water to the depth of high water is only two feet high. From the bottom of fifty four, the high water is a little over fifty six, or fifty four to fifty six and the rest is just a safety factor. Mr. McDonald: So if you get as much as two feet of water in the worst care scenario. Mr. Ward: I guess our initial question was in an agricultural area why woUld we put something out here that would flood? Mr. McDonald: The question is, you don't know in the long term if it is going to revert. Turned tape over. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 15 JANUARY 11, 1993 Mr. Orlowski: Can you do it another way? Mr. Danowski: The other side though is to put in a deep recharge basin is an expense because you have to go back and redesign things but more importantly I think aesthetically that there Was more pleasing to have a gently rolling non fenced area. Mr. Ward: Our real concern was taking a lot that we were saying is going to be open space for farmed purposes and then ending up using it for drainage. We definitely had a problem with that. Mr. Danowski: I heard that and I understand that and I think if it weren't for the immediate use I might be more sensitive to the argument. Mr. Ward: What we will do then is we will get back to you shortly with our responses. Mr. Abruzzo: I think you have got to remember that we are talking about only a two foot swale in here in the space of this whole thing so it is going to be almost unnoticeable of what water we will get in there. We didn't do it over a short period. We tried to spread it out so it would be a very natural look. Everyone talking. Mr. Abruzzo: There are always different ways Of changing this but we are at the eleventh hour changing and our whole idea and I think we had talked about and had the blessing at one time of the Board was we wanted to make this look like a very natural swale rather than a recharge basin or a pond when we have the room and we can drop this and get two foot of water in this big area if it needs to have water in there at all, that is under a six inch rain under twenty four hours and it will hold some water. Certainly, we can contain this in a much smaller area and make the recharge basin ten feet deep and put a fence. Mr. Ward: I don't think that comment would be here tonight if it was a homeowners association. Everyone talking. Mr. Danowski: On Highpoint Woods - You forced us into an unusual position and Mr. Israel may want to have some of his own personal comments here but what I basically followed and represented him on this matter is that eventually listen to some suggestions and put two parcels that could have been treated as SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 16 JANUARY 11, 1993 tWO separate minor subdivision applications or perhaps eight two acre lots and it went from a major subdivision and you now by your actions told us that we have got to build 30,000 square foot lots by forcing that last remark on us about taking the last lot at the end of the road and pulling it to the front, you forced us to possibilynot be able to comply with that comment because we put the drainage area to the area in front of that parcel so I am not sure you can even squeeze all of the lots on the front row to allow the drainage to where we have now designed it. Even beyond that, you want us to shrink down to the toughest standard here where you have the cluster provision that you can shrink down to the minimum of 30,000 square feet so you have got us in the smallest sized lot allowed u/%der the code with no lot to the large rear area in the back that is wooded. You may force us back to the drawing Board and resubmitting two minor subdivisions of eight two acre lots. Beyond that, you put some restrictions on the homeowners association designated land per your resolution which I am not s~re you can do by saying that we have got certain restrictions and covenants on the homeowners association area. I would like to pick on Mr. McDonald because you were not necessarily in favor of the large lot on this in the subdivision you thought the homeowners should be benefited by the large area. I mean if they want a playground, if they want a tennis court, if they want a nature trail, if they want some use of the property doesn't the Southold Town Code allow that to happen, doesn't it encourage it to happen, isn't that something that could take place within that large area and I would like to suggest that you can't go and say, this is a homeowner designated area but you also can't build upon it because I would tend to think that the homeowners could build upon it. Mr. McDonald: Under the code you are not allowed to build on the open space area. Mr. Danowski: What is a homeowners benefit, ~nat can they do? Just walk through it? Mr. McDonald: Passive recreational uses. 5~. Danowski: The end line here is we will have to regather our thoughts and either challenge your decision here or come back with two minor subdivisions but I thought that not only mandating the homeowners association but also taking away the right to put a building envelope or the ninth lot, the last lot on the back area is really restricted on this particular diagram of the street location or the drainage where it now is. I didn't know if you recognized that possibly it is an impossibility to provide the minimum envelope to that last lot along that road way. Mr. Israel: The other thing with this subdivision is that this is not an affordable housing subdivision and you have basically SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 17 JANUARY 11, 1993 taken where I originally bought this property figuring on two acre lots or one acre clustered lots, you reduced me down to 30,000 square feet plus you are also putting a restriction on that 30,000 square foot lot for a natural retention. So here,'a person is now going to be purchasing a half acre of usable land and economics are a decision here also. I have over $500,000 dollars invested in this twenty acres and now I am down to be selling half acre lots so, I think somewhere along the line somebody's rights have taken away unjustly. I originally had two separate parcels here, we fought to get a road through from stars road which was supposed to be a road but due to a Planning Board error twenty years ago was never dedicated for a road. I spent a year fighting that wi~h large expense to me for lawyers etc. which we abandoned in the end result because due to the error of the Planning Board, twenty years ago, it is impossible to open up that road. Then, when I started from the Main Road, the right of way that existed, there was an eight foot road that was again lost, it was off the tax maps, and I was advised or it was suggested by the Planning Board. that well, it is important that I own that road or have a right of way and I went out and I purchased that road after six months of investigation and negotiation. Now, I am being told that the back ten acres just because it is pristine or hasn't been touched for ten years should remain that way. It is a piece of land, it is owned by a person and a person has rights on that land. If I so chose tomorrow, I could start growing asparagus on it tomorrow. The whole ten acres. I thought in good planning, because I am a developer in this town it would be better for all of the neighbors involved in that area if that did remain basically open and what I have asked the Planning Board for is to allow me to have a one acre building envelope back there. I think I should have a right to have a lot back there versus being pushed to the front also. If you want to restrict that ten acres that will remain in open space, I probably would not have a problem with that except for being allowed to build on a building envelope. Buts it seems to me that now you are asking me to give up the ten acres and give up seVenty-five feet behind every lot. To me, now I am being double hit for a conservation or open space concept. I think the open space ruling as a whole, is going to eventually cause this town problems. Just like I proved to the Planning Board in reference to the parks, that used to be mandated in every subdivision that when you look back over the last ten years you have fOund out that most of them were never used and they became problems in your town. Some of them had been even taken back for taxes and later sold to build affordable housing on them. So, what happened to that dedicated open space that was given to the town to be a park or given to the people to be a park and eventually went back into the system and came back out again. I think what you are going to find in your planning with your open space, if you start creating these homeowners associations and today people don't want the $OUT~OLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 18 JANUARY 11, 1993 responsibility of open space, the liability and everlrthing else, I think you are going to find that they are going to become problem areas. You are going to have dumping on them and who is going to take care of that after it is done because it is basically going to turn into foul land. There is nothing wrong with foul land but somebody has to be responsible. People who buy the lots today, don't want to know they have a responsibility down the street that if somebody goes hunting and kills a kid on that land they are going to be liable because it is owned by them. So, I think the town either has to figure out a way what to do with this open space, if it is needed, they have to say the town either has to say, O.K., this is going to become Town land and it can never be developed. The town can't change their mind fifty years from now and say gee, we need this, let's go get some of that open space. Or, it has to be put into somebody's personal hands who because it is their responsibility they are going to take care of it, they are going to make sure that someone isn't hunting on it or someone isn't dumping because it is their property. If you are going to put into this, quote unquote, homeowners ~sociation which now I understand the lots aren't even taxed, it is going to be forgotten about. But, the people who own those nine lots are going to be responmible for any action that happens on them and that is going to become a problem. People are going to say, we don't want this responsibility, so then what do they do? They give it to the town. IS the town willing to accept it? I think this is one of the problems that you guys are going to encounter in the future and you are going to have to cor~ider what is going to happen. I don't think we have done a lot of places here where we have vast open spaces. Most of it is farmland currently but I think we are even going to see in the future the farming starting to dissipate whether it goes into nurseries or wineries or whatever, that is probably the only other alternative left. My understanding from the potato farmers is that it doesn't pay to grow potatoes any longer on Long Island so I thought by creating this tenth lot and you may disagree with me and I am willing to listen, at least keeping it in the ownership of a single individual, you can restrict them anyway you want, you at least have designated this to remain open spaoe, you control it through restrictions and covenants and you can do it. But, here you have forced me into a situation where I am back down to 30,000 square foot lots effectively 20,000 square foot lots and how am I suppose to sell these in today's market at the prices I bought in for. Maybe, that is maybe not your probtembut at least I bought where I thought I was going to be able to sell a one acre lot, I bought in an area .that was pristine because that would get a premium over something in Highpoint. Two different animals and you have to respect that, you can't just take everything and reduce it down to nothing. Mr. Ward: In relation to the lot size, we did a quick calculation on it and if you were to knock ten or twelve foot off of each lot to create, and took shall we say thirty-five SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD i9 JANUARY 11 , 1993 foot OUt of the right of way going to the open space, it seems like you would still end up with still over forty thousand square foot lots. Mr. Israel: Are you taking into account the drainage? Mro Ward: Yes, I am looking at your lot sizes the way they are right now and if you were to shave ten foot off each lot, it's 3,000 square foot per lot roughly. It seems like every lot would be forty thousand square foot. It is not a substantial change, in terms of the rear natural vegetation retention buffer between the school property and the lots is another reduction in a sense of utilization of those lots, I would think that the Board, we could talk about that, and possibly consider reducing that substantially. That is a possibility. So, we could take a look at a few things there. I don't see where your lots are going to change much in size. Mr. Israel: Why are you against a single lot in the rear? Why won't you give me a one acre lot back there as a flag lot. If you want it to be a homeowners association to me, as a person that has to sell these things, it is going to be something that people are not going to want and they are going to walk away. They can buy, I mean in every other subdivision currently that is on the market that was developed two or three years ago, there is a park area, there is no open space that people have to worry about liability today and things like that. Mr. Ward: Well, we will take a look at it but if you look at the maps and the things that we gave you there within reason, you will see a reason why it was done this way. We will talk about the question you are raising. Anyone else with any further questions? Mr. Danowski: I know you referenced one of the older maps with reference to the layout, the drainage that we are now showing in a recharge basin which again is per town code is contained on the more recent of the maps. I figure that part still stays. The reference to an older map is just for the lot layouts. Mr. McDonald: You will be getting several attachments with this. Mr. Ward: Any further co~ents from the Board? Mr. Edwards: I would just like to go on record to thank Benny OrlOwski for his chairmanship over the years and particular his help to me on Fishers Island on some situation we had. He never hesitated to jump on a plane and come over and give me a hand. I would personally like to thank him for that and also, to wish you luck in the hot seat. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 20 JANUARY 11, 1993 Mr. Ward: O.K., I would like to entertain a motion to adjourn. Mro Latham: So moved. Mr. Ward: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonaldv Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr~ Ward: So carried. Being there was no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at 8:15 p.m.. Respectfully submitted, Jane Rousseau, Secretary Richard Ward, Chairman