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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-11/23/1992PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman George Ritchie Latham. Jr. Richard G. Ward Mark S. McDonald Kenneth L. Edwards Telephone (516) 765-1938 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD $OUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD ~INUTES NOVEMBER 23, 1992 SCOTT L. HARRIS Supervisor Town Hall. 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold. New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-1823 Present were: Absent were: Bennett Orlowski Jr., Chairman Richard Ward Kenneth Edwards Mark McDonald Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner Melissa Spiro, Planner Holly Perrone, Secretary G. Ritchie Latham Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would like to call this meeting to order. First order of business is to set Monday, December 14, 1992 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motio~ made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. PUBLIC HEARINGS Subdivisions - Final Mr. Orlowski: 7:30 p.m. Edward ZuhoskiEstate - Proposed amendment to the approved minor subdivision of the Edward SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 2 NOVEMBER 23, l-9~92~ Zuhoski Estate to incorporate the 50' right-of-way with Lot ~3. SCTM $1000-102-1-1. We have proof of publication in the local paper and everything is in order for a final hearings. I'll ask if there are any objections to this amendment? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this amendment? Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but may have information pertaining to this that may he of interest to the Board? H~earing none, any questions from the Board? Board: No questions. Mr. Orlowski: Being there are no further questions, t'tl entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Ward: So moved. Mr. McDonald.: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: I will ~hstain. since it is family. Opposed? So moved. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Does the Board have any pleasure? Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board approve the following amendment to the minor subdivision map for Edward Zuhoski Estates. This minor ~.~ivision was approved ar~ endorsed by the Planning Board Chainma~ on April 23, 1994. The 50 foot right-of-way shown on the endorsed map for Edward Zuhcski Estates, is to be incorporated with Lot $3, of the approved subdivision. This amendment has been proposed in order to ensure that the right of way will not become a separate parcel upon the sale of the lots in the Edward Zuhoski Estates minor subdivision. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion ~made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. McDonald. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 3 NOVEMBER 23, 1992_ Mr. Ortowski: I will abstain since it is family. Opposed? So moved. SubdivisJ Mr. Orlo~ Woods - 9 acres loc SCTM ~10C Mr. Pete develope~ before yc prelimin~ after hat alternate attentior ownershi~ depicted also adj~ buffer, shown. well as ~ associatJ ons- Preliminary ski: 7:35 p.m. Highpoint Woods a.k.a. Marion his minor s~,bdivision is for ten .lots on 20.5668 ated on the north side of Main Road in East Marion. 0-22-3-5 & 5 & 31-4-15,1 & 31-4-15.2. Danowski: I am the attorney representing the s. The applicant Mr. Mandel and Mr. Israel are here ~ today. With my letter I have forwarded the ~ry maps and I noted that we had prepared these maps lng a Planning Board Meeting where we discussed the ideas on how to develop the site with particula~ paid to the question of the open space and the thereof. We prepared a map from Young and Young which a restricted building envelope of the preliminary map .sted to reflect the twenty-five foot r~tu~al vegetation ~n a border of the lots to the back of the lots that are t has been our firm co~a~itment that this developer as or others that the formation of the homeowners on does very little benefit to the Town. I recognize that at the last meeting Mr. Mc~or~ld and I h~d some brief discussion in the presence of the Board at the meeting and I recognize since then I have received an engineers report today and a report from the County Plannin~ C~muission. However, it has been consistently my position that homeowner's association don't benefit anyone. They don't benefit the people in the Town of Southold. What they end up being is a place to dump garbage and seldom are they maintained as well as they are if they s_re kept in private ownership. I recognize howe~er that there is a common ~oal. of creatin~ open. space and making sure that structures aren't placed on a portion of this particular lot if it is kept as a large lot. Therefore we volunteered that we would record with the Celerity Clerk's Office prior to or simultaneously with filing the map a covenant that would satisfl~ the Planning Board Members, planning Staff or anyone elsa, legal council included as t~ it's form an~ that covenant would c. learl~point out that there wou]x~be no ability to build outside the limited building envelope. IWould also offer, and I brought a copy of the map~ that you have before you an offer to extend the natural vegetation buffer for se~enty-five feet around the border of that large lot so that we could not just continue it through lots one through nine but also include lot ten. That would at least be able to satisfy some of those people and say not one tree or one leaf should be touched and it would create that buffer from other houses or from schools or other property. We would keep that bu~Eer in tact and the only necessary invasion of that buffer on the $OUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 4 NOVEMBER 23, 1992..~ perimeter that would be able to be commented upon would be the driveway which would have to connect from the road to the limited building envelope. But, with that set we could do that. That covenant would also say no structures within any of the property except for the limited building envelope and the driveway so you have the open space and it would not be tremendously developed in anyway and it would just permit one large lot owner to own the property. This is similar to other ireas where we have agricultural areas where we seek to preserve griculturat open space by keeping a farmer in business or a oung person might want to pursue some form of agricultu~eo My support on this project is with an argument that centainly I would think all the Board members would sustain which would override the recommendation. I don't think they also have the ility to say what they said legally. They made a cox~m~ent out they don't think this is a cluster of design and they voted to disapprove the cluster. We have had this discussion once before too about what New York State law says, no where does it say that you cannot have a va~iabte lot cluster. You absolutely can. So, they are incorrect in making that kind of ~omment but, I recognize we are going to have to either go back to the County Planning Commission should you chose not to override or I would ask you to override because that is the path of least resistance and the quickest way to handle the matter. I do have Mr. Mandel and Mr. Israel here to answer any questions Sut we have discussed a lot of the points before. The tax bills Ghat get sent out hy the Town have now been dealt with to correct the idea of taxation of the open space. Taxation goes to the individual lot owners, we can buffer, we can covenant, we can do the very same things to protect open space that you get from the homeowners association and with that said, I would. invite any kind of questions or I wouldask my clients whether they want to say anything fuEther. I hate to close meetings and then find out I get a resol~b~on of disapproval beca,~e I would like to be able to discuss any points or to have the opportunity to have a littla give and take. Mr. Orlowski: Does the Board have any questions? Mr. Danowski: If I might, I will hand you a copy of the covenant and this can be reworked any way you want by anybody and I will be more than_happy to go back ~n4 forth on it. I have yellow ~marked the map where I have talked about it to indicate that we could create this buffer around the perimeter of the large lot and wi~h the exception of the driveway, we could live with that covenant. Mr. McDonald: Is there a time frame on what we do with the County Planning Commission Report? Mr. Orlowski: No. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 5 NOVESIBER 23, 1992 Mr. McDonald: Did you say you had written covenants and restrictions? Mr. Danowski: I'll give you one copy that is prepared today. Mr. McDonald: I would ask that we hold this meeting open for one more hearing to get a chance to look at the covenants and restrictions and to look at the map. Mr. Danowski: Mr. Mandel wanted to make a few comments and the Engineering Report obviously Young and Young can~ get to~ether with the Town's Engineers and Town's Planning Staff and-add~ess the questions that were raised here. Mr. Mandet: Good evening, Richard Israel and I have been building in $outhold for a number of years now or trying to and I wanted to point out to you that the objections voiced byyour c~,,ittee in this particular instance are not in conformance with the code in that the code does not require the things that you are asking us to do. It doesn't require a homeowners association. The Southold Code doesn't require that we leave this land as we are willing to covenant it now. Also, we employe in our work Southold carpenters, electricians, pl~r~rs and we use local labor and this local labor spends their money in Southold. The people we sell houses to eventually live in Southold and pay taxes, here. I think that in view of the times, they are pretty rough on everybody and I think items like this should not be held up because of a particular ~irk in somebody's mind that they would like to have it differently. We are suppose to work within the code. We are working within the code, we don~t have any other place to go so I think that our plea in this incidenc~ that we be approved prc~ptl~ is more than adequately shown to be a proper factor. Mr. Orlowski: Any other endorsements of th~s subdivision? Hearing none, is there anyone out thence neither pro nor con but may have information pertaining to this subdivision that may be of interest to the Board? Hearing none, any questions from the Board? Board: No questions. Mr. McDonald: I make a motion we hold it open. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: I have a motion to hold this hearing open to go over the information just handed to us. Any qu~stions on that motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SOtPTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 6 NOVEMBER 23 , 1992 . Ms. Scopaz: Mr. Chairman, I would just like to mention one thing, I believe that the Code requires that if the Plar£uing Board w~nts to conside[ the option put forth by the applicant other than what is specifically set forth in the code, you have to go back to the Town Board for approval, if they would agree to that action. I£ that is the case, we may not be able to resolve this at the next meeting unless there is a Town Board meeting in between. Mr. Danawski: I think we can. take ~at ~n~[ advisement but I don't think that is totally accurate but t am aware of what Ms. Scopaz is referring to. That is, traditionally five years ago ii you got int.o a discussion with me on this you would, say we don't know of any other way to develop a cluster subdivision other than providing for separate open space area and you either donate to the Town at that point or a homeowners association. Ms. Scopaz: I just want to make sure that when we go to the Town Attorney if he says you have tc go to the Town Board, I just want you to be aware of that. Hearing Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Orlowski: Hillc=est Estates, Section 2 - This major subdivision is for twenty lots on 22.9 acres located in Orient. SCTM 31000-13-2-8.2. We are still waiting for Health Depantment approval. I'll ask is there anyone out here that has any comments or questions on this subdivision? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion to keep this open. Mr. Ward: So moved. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed.? So ordered. Mr. Orlowski: Eleanor Sievernich- This minor subdivision is for two lots on 3.745 acres located on the east side o! Cox Neck Road in Mattituck. SCTM %1000-113-8-5. They are still at the Zoning Board of Appeals and we are waiting for their decision. This is held open since October 2, 1990. Mr. Edwar8~: So moved. Mr. McDonald: Second. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 7 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski, ~Ir. Ward. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ozdered. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATION Final Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: James Bitses - This minor subdivision is located on the south side of Main Bayview Road in SoutD~ld. SCTE $1000-87-5-21.1 & 21.2 Mr. McDonald.: Mr. Chairman I would like to make a motion. WHEREAS the applicant has not complied with the requirements to complete the proposed subdivision, which include, but are not limited to, the following: a) the submission of maps which include the land shown as that of Old Town Associates, Inc., which is land that is not recognized as a single and separate lot by the Planning Boa~d; b) the submission of final maps with a valid stamp of approval fr~m the Suffolk Country Depazta~el~t of Health Services; c) the submission of a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions acceptable to the Planning Board and Town Attorney; and WHEREAS the applicant has submitted maps which are not in accordance with the original propose~ subdivision and instead propose numerous lot line changes; and WHEREAS the Planning Board has sent correspondence on numerous occasions notiflri-ug the applicant that the maps received fulfilled neithe~ the ~equirement for ~beminor subdivision not the application requirements for the proposed lot line changes; and WHEREAS, in such correspondence, the Planning Board stated that if ~he information required to complete the subdivision or the info~mati~n required to apply for the proposed lot line changes was not submitted that it would be ass~m~d that ths applicant did not wish to proceed further and the file would be closed; and SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 8 NOVESIBER 23, 1992 WHEREAS the Planning Board has received neither the information required to complete the subdivision nor the information required to proceed with the proposed lot line changes has been submitted. be it therefore RESOLVED that the PtanningBoard deny without prejudice the sut~livision application for Katherine Bitses. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.. Any question~ on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. EdwardS, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Preliminary Extensions Mr. Orlowski: M. Paul Fri. edbe~q - This major subdivision is for ten lots on 22.106 acres located on the west side of West Mill Road in Mattituck. SCT~ ~1000-106-9-4. Mr° Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Beard grant a six month extension of p~eliminary approval from Novem~er 18, 1992 to May 18, 1993. Please note that this is the last extension that the Planning Board will be granting. Mr. McDonald: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded, Any q~estions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Edwards. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed.? So ordered. Setting of Preliminary Hearings : Mr. Orlowski: Bayberry Estates - This major subcli~ision is for eighteen lots on 50.0171 acres located on the west side of Laurel Avenue; 140 feet south of Yennecott Drive in Sou~hold. SCTM ~1000-55-6-35 & 36 & 56-1-1. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOAR/) 9 NOVEMBER 23,1992~.~ Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to entertain a motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, December 14, 1992 at 7:30 p.m. for a-preliminary public hearing on the maps dated Octaber 22, 1992. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. An~questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr, Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Sketch Extensions Mr. Orlowski: John and Margaret Guest - This mi~or subdivision is for three lots on 13.7 acres located on the west side of Crescent Avenue on Fishers Island. SCTM $1000-6-1-5. Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the ~ollowing motion. RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning~ Board grant a six month extension of sketch approval from November 50, 1992 to May 30, 1993. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Ortowski: Opposed? So ordered. Review of Reports: Engineering and Suffolk County Planning Commission. Mr. Orlowski: Highpoint Woods - SCTM 91000-22-3-5 & 31-4-15.1 & 31-4-15.2. This is being held over. Mr. McDonald: I wonder if we could do at this point a review of the report for Be~enski subdivision in Cutchogue. I would like to make a motion that we adopt the August ll, 1992 report from Ray Jacobs and the August 11, 1992 report from James Richter. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 10 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. Cuddy: I am the attorney for the applicant. There were two letters that this Board forwarded to me as the attorney. One I believe was in July and the other was in August. I have been inquiring for the last two months as to what was going to be done. Am I correct Mr. McDonald that there was July letter and a August letter? Mr. McDonald: Yes. These are not letters fr~myou, thesa are the Engineer's Reports. Mr. Cuddy: O.K., but my letter said that the Board didn't have jurisdiction to do anything but accept t~e proposals. I am asking you if there was a July letter, I am just opening m~ file now because this wasn't on the ca!enter. Mr. McDonald: We are trying to adopt, or proposing to adopt the August 11, 1992 letter where he set the specifications for the road. Mr. Cuddy: There was a question here as to a waiver of the specification. Mr. McDonald: The engineer looked at the road and set some other conditions. Mr. Orlowski: Basically, it i.s waiving it. Mr. Cuddy: O.K., I would ask you to wait until I find the letters in my file. because I am certainly in conc~erned if one is adopted as opposed to the other. If you would just give me a moment, I will look in my ~ile. Mr. Orlowski: I think these are the two that you wante~us to adopt. O.K., we will hold that resolution. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDMSIONS, LOT L/NE CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWACT Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: William J. B.axter~ Jr. - This minor subdivision is for four lots on 2.78 acres located on the northeast side of Grilling Street and southeast side of School House Road in Cutchogue. SCTM $1000-102-5-9.51 Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following resolution. RESOLVED that the Sou~hold Town. Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, make a determination of non-significance, and grant a Negative Declaration. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 11 NOVE~IBER 23,1992_ The project calls for moderate density land use, in a manne~ which is consistent with Town zoning. The project does not contain any unique natural or human environmental resources. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. SITE PLANS Final Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: Bridgehampton Natior~i Bank - This proposed site plan is for a bank ~d drive up window in an existing vacant building in Mattituck Shopping Center in Mattituck. SCTM 91000'142-1-2. Mr. McDonald: There are a couple of representatives here with some questions. Mr. Ward: Just out of curiosity, what happened to the transition type of curb? Mr. McCarthy: There is still a transition. I believe it wa~ a fifty foot radius° I believe we have held it consistently with the last one because there was no determination made ~ to what it should or should not be. Mr. McDonald: Did he talk to the people in the adjacent store? Mr. McCarthy: The determination wa~ made that. theywere going to proceed and go ahead in front of the adjacent store. We are going to make it a gentle swee~. Mr~ Ward: You take a look at that whole approach along there and there needs to be some major work done~ Mr. McDonald: That is what he is saying they are prepared to do right? Mr. McCarthy: We plan to make the adjustment and not just in front of that end unit but to continue it to the next unit as well. Mr. Ward: Yes, except your plan isn't showing that. Mr. McCarthy: Actually, it is drawn to scale. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 12 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. Ward: Well, that is not going tO work. Mr. McCarthy: Do you have an exact number of a radius figure as to how Ear over it should go? Mr. Ward: No, I think it should go back to the traffic engineer. Did anybody look at this? Mr. McDonald: You don't even have a radius unless you use the inflection point right? Mr. Ward: We are really concerned about that coming down here, it is like a sharp angle at tha~ point. This should be really renegotiated. Mr. McDonald: Rather than talk about the radius, let's go back to the (inaudible). Mr. McCarthy: The only increase you are ~ki~g from the front is a twelve foot, it is twelve from the face of the present cu~ so if the front of the one store, I believe is twenty four foot wide and if we came over two stores, that would be approximately fifty feet so you would be gaining twelve feet. Mr. Orlowski: Are you prepared to do that? Mr. McCarthy: We are prepared to go out in front of the other stores. Everyone talking. Mr. McCarthy: Can we make this subject to the recommendation of the traffic engineer? Mr. Orlowski: Are you prepared to go with that radius? Mr. McCarthy: I can't speak for Mr. Cardinale because he isn't here tonight. We are prepared to go for what we have on the plan which does go out in front of the Radio Shack Store. Is there a specific number we must go with or should we defer to traffic engineers. Mr. McDonald: Is that acceptable? Mr. Ward: It is to me. Mr. McDonald: So, if they want to do that they can go ahead with it. If not, they will have to come ba~k in for modification. Mr. McCarthy: Is there an angle that we are hoping to achieve. Mr. Ward: I think what you hav~ got is (inaudible) here would be, this distance is roughly sixty three. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 13 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Everyone talking. Mr. Ward: The abruptness of this is going to be a definite problem of som~bod~ coming along. Mr. McCarthy: Would any members of the Board care to meet us on site to see what has actually been done? Mr. Ward: Sure. Mr. Orlowski: Do you want to do a resolution sub~ec.t to? Mr. Ward: yes. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: The only other question that we would have is this island and we should go ahead with the striping and see if it works. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: If you want to set up a date, we will get someone out there. Ms. Scopaz: I think if he revises the map and brings it in we will sign it. Mr. Edwards: Are you are going to go out in the field? Mr. McDonald: Yes, we'll go out in the field. All you need is a signature from Berry and all we have to do is get somebody out there. Mr. Orlowski: tf you do that we will sign it. Mr. McDonald: He is asking for somebody to go out there and determine whether it is forty, fifty, sixt!~or what the number is. Mr. McDonald: How about doing this, take something like this with a spray can of yellow paint and-show us what you have in mind. Mr. McCarthy: I wouold prefer to set up a meeting just so we can settle it once and for all. Mr. McDonald: What he is asking ab~t is what is the lesse~ of that curvature. 'They don't want to make it any longer than they have to but they want to make it long enough to suffice. Mr. McCarthy: I would like to meet with the whole Board. or a representative of the Board that we could~both, cume to a decision on site. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 14 NOVEMBER 23,1992 Mr. Orlowski: How about meeting with us on ThursS~y a~ternoon at three o'clock. Mr. McCarthy: O.K., fine. Everyone talking. Mr. Ward: How ~hout Wednesday morning? Mr. Orlowski: Mr. McCarthy: Mr. Orlowski: Seven o'clock or eight o'clock? Eight o'clock is O.K. O.K., thank you. SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY R_EUIE~ ACT Lead Agency Coordination Mr. Orlowski: LindaTaggart - This proposed site plan is for a 930 square foot retail antiques and decorative gift shop located on Main Road in Southold, SCTM ~1000-53-2-2. Mr. Cuddy: (on Bagenski)I don't have any objection to your adopting the August 11, 1992 road requirements. Mr. McDonald: We have a motion and a second on that presently. Mr. Orlowski: O.K., I have a motion made and seconded .t~ approve those two reports on Begenski. Any other questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Mr. Cuddy: I want to just briefly revie~ somet~hin~ with the Board because it is material to what you are going, to ~cide tonight. The applic~tionby Lind~ Ta~gart, in. the SPri~n~ of this year approximately April 19~2~ In AU~,~t of ~992 ~he Zoning Board of Appeals rendered a decision 9Tanting a ~PeCial exception and also a varis'nce to the Ta~ga~h's. Since. ~hat time, there b~ baen a great 8~al o~ discussion ~bo~ttha Taggart's application and to what this Board should be doing~ with it. It has been my impression continuously and also the Taggart's impression that you should be reviewing3 the sit~ plan and we stress that in my appearances here as far as letters to you and I am sure communications (inaudible). We were surprised SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 15 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 to a considerable degree to receive a letter telling us that you are now going to ask for an environmental s-tudy under the SEQRA considerably because t~t h~8 been done by the ToWn TEustees weeks and Weeks ago, that application went before the!Town TrusteeS over three months ago. They gave a negative! declaration to this exa~t application that is before you. believe that another negative declaration is apprSpriate. I would ask that you look at that negative decla~ation, I've sent copies of it to the Board, I've also s~nt copies Of the hearing transcript that the Trustee's conducted in Octobe~ of!this year which everyone had notice and which probably no ~e~ap~eared objected, which gave thom approval for the bui.ldi~g at this site. i don't know of any basis what so ever to be doing a further environmental study, and it would seem to me that an application that has been before this Board for more than six months, has been three months away from Zoning Board approval should now be in the site plan. process and should not,be being thrown back into the SEQRA. I don't know why it is and I am really puzzled that the Board at this point would feel comfortable saying to them that we want to do this over again. Now, I remind you of something. You apparently hsve had great misgivings about the Zoning Board's determinationlandlyou apparently therefore also have some misgivings ab6~t the Trustee's determination. There was a case that this Board worked on with the Zonin~ Board a year ago called McDOnalds which was the McDonalds application in Mattituck. The Zoning Board took issue with this Board as to the SEQRA dete~nation and it was then determined, and I thought this was precedent particularly for this application, that the Board that had worked on the SEQRA and had made the determination was the Board that was to continue before and also that it was ~at Board's determination, in that case, it was this particuta~ Board, uph~ld. The Zoning Board could not vary you~ determination I would say if it was good in that case, it certainly~has to be good in this casa which means the Trustee's deten-mination should be upheld this time. I don't know any basis for your' doi~g what you are doing with this. The SEQRA determinationis made, I believe it is final, I believe it is not contestable at this point, if you want to amend it for some reason then maybe~ ~om~body should suggest that to us. I would ask ~atyou please proCeed with the site plan. The Taggart's ha~e b~enwaiting that for six months and. they are here and are mor~ than frustrated and I would ask the Board to please proceed on that basis. Mr. McDonald: Although I don't agree with all ofi your statements, I concur with the fact that the Negat~vel Declaration is in place on this at this time and there is no reason to do a SEQRA. All that romains as far as I can tell from looking at the file is certification from the building inspector and Health Depar~uent. Mr. Orlowski: Where are you with the Health Department? SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 16 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 Mr. Cuddy: I think we are just in the process of submitting to the Health Department. They have been waiting to get the site plan. Mr. Orlowski: Will you have it by the next meeting? Mr. Cuddy: I would not thir~ so but maybe the meeting a~ter that. Mr. Orlowski: O.K., you need that for the certification too. Mr. Cuddy: Before you move on may I ask if that was a positive determination in regards to the SEQRA process? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Ortowski: O.K., Local Law Proposals - Local law in relation to affordable housing. Mr. McDonald: I make a motion that the comments be ~orwarded to the Town Board. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? Mr. Penny: I came here as the Chairman of the Legistat~ve~ Committee to hear the comments of the Planning Board Members and to hear any discussion that might take place on this. I was not aware that the determination w~ already made and a vote is to be taken with their already summation. (inaudible) If I am naive or wrong, please correct me. I am here to answer any qUestions or comments. Mr. McDonald: Maybe I am under a misapprehension, I thought that we were requested to make our comments, we were going to make our comments and send them over to you. Mr. Penny: Right. Mr. McDonald: This is not a public hearing on our co~m~ents to my best knowledge unless I am. mistaken and unfortunately, our Town Attorney is not here tonight. To myknowtedge, it is not a public hearing, you have requested our comments and we are sending them to you. M-r. Penny: I came here becaus~e I have gotten comm~nts back in the past to the Town Board that have not been exactly coordinated with the thinking o~ the Legislative discussions that we had and to preveat any misgivings or any misinterpretation o~ the intent oE the law, etc. etc., I felt SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOAR~ 17 NOVEMBER 23, 199'2 that maybe if I came here tonight. I understand that this is th~ only forum that you will meet with people regarding this and if I am wrong and this is not the public forum and this is not the. place for this then I will~ sit down. Mr. McDonald: To my knowledge, there is no hearing on this. Mr. Penny: I am not suggesting this is a heazing. Mr. McDonald: We are just sending ou~ comments, you are going to have them in a day or two. Mr. Penny: When is it possible for someone to meet with the Planning Board when the Plan~-~ng Board discusses comments and other meetings of this nature. Mr. McDonald: You in particular can call us at anytime. The public makes their co~auents on local laws when the hearing comes before you. That is when they make their comments onp~hlic laws. We are just giving you cur opinion. Mr. Penny: In what public forum has thisbe eh discussed? Mr. McDonald: This is the opinion of the Planning Board not the opinion of the public forum. The purpose of the public forum takes place when you hold the hearing. That is when anybody wants to get a crack at this law gets a chance to come in and get a shot at it. Mr. Penny: Where did this disc~ion take place? Was it at a public meeting? Mr. Orlowski: It was at the public works session, yes. Mr. Penny: O.K. then, I am mistaken and that if I wanted to discuss this along with you with any apprehensions or any' concerns I might have about it I shoul~have come to the wo=k session. Mr. McDonald: Not necessarily because it is not necessarily so that you are allowed to participate in the work sessiom as you know from your work session. That is a matter of discretion. Mr. Penny: It is not a matter of participation but it is just a matter of appearing. Mr. McDonald: Oh yes, you can absolutely can hear. Mr. Penny: If there are questions that I could offer possibly a response to. Mr. McDonald: Yes, when we~discuss it at the work session, you can hear it and if you want to make comments. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 18 NOVEMBER 23, 1'992 M~. Penny: How do I find out about the work session's? M~.| McDonald: They are published in the meeting list. pqsted daily.' Judy hands, them out. M~. Orlowski: See Judy, she posts them. M~. Penny: I'm sorry. If I could at the end of this meeting have a copy of the comments, I would greatly appreciate it. Mr. Orlowski: O.K.. Motion made and seconded. Any questions. on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: 'Opposed? So ordered. They are Mr. Orlowski: Local Law in relation to accessory buildings. ME. McDonald: I make a motion that we forward our co~ments to the Town Board. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. OTHERS Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Peter Danowski has scheduled an appointment on the North Forty Subdivision. Mr. Danowski: If you recall, we did qet a final resolution from this Board back in 1991 and prior to that time I had asked the B~ard to reconsider its earlier position reqardin~ the ~aership o~ OPen space qUestion~ Unlike the earlier map that we had on for Sketch with Mr. Mandel and Mr. Israel this is a known agricultural farm beside the Domaleski farm. It was purchased by Gatz and McDowell families and they have gone through the subdivision process. They had advised this Boa~that they did not want to form a homeowners association. In fact, they wished to keep the large open space lot to the rear of the subdivision, the south end of it for agricultural, purposes with a restricted envelope on the open space area. For a long time we kept the public hearing open prior to your final approval and we chose not to file the map because you mandated the homeowners $OUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 19 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 association at that point. We then, a few menths ago rediscussed the matter because the McDowell family and the Qatz family had discussed with their kids the deed out of lets so that hemes could be built for their own children and in attendance tonight we have the Gatz, McDowell families and some of the kids that were involved. In fact, Mr. McDowell's one daughter works on a horse farm locally in Southotd Town and one of the questions that came up is whether she could own and maintain horses on that agricultural open space lot and she would build a house on the front portion of that lot with a restricted building envelope, again with covenants and restrictions filed with the County Clerk prior to the map filing. So, I have asked for this meeting so that you can hear many individual family members who might be in attendance tonight and you might make any inquiries of them. I also, to give you an alternate idea, had Young and Young prepare a revised map that we sh~w three lots in the back breaking up the open space area but guaranteeing again that all of it would be in the agricultural reserve area which would show three separate lots. I've been advised that the Board w~ not in favor of that split up and so we are back, if I am to understand things correctly with the ownership of that one large lot and just so we are not mistaken I'll bring out the two maps that I have prepared or had prepared. Mr. Orlowski: Are they different than this three large lot map? Mr. Danowski: I think the difference was, the original map that was shown to you that we had the Health Department stamp on was this one. Pass it aroundamongst yourselves with the open space area and that is the one we said it wouldn't matter to us which lot, but looking at the map lot seven, eight and nine had a dotted line and, you could actually just make that part of that lot and make a circle and put it here if you want, we have shown this to you before, that we would ask that that bethe map that you approve. The exact same road system, the exact same situation. Mr. McDonald: Is that the same idea as Cohill? Mr. Danowsk~: Mr. Cohill's situationwas different because he chose to come voluntarily before yo~and~¢k not to have to build a road. Mr. McDonald: He reduced his dsnsity in return. Mr. Danowski: Right, he gave up the road construction for the loss. Mr. McDonald: But, the concept is essemtially the same in terms of the relationship between the lot and the open space. Mr. Danowski: Yes. That is correct and it would be the same as what we discussed with Mr. Macari's s~bdivision, the one up on $OUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 20 NOVEMBER 23. 1992 Bergen Avenue and it would be similar and that on the variable lot cluster you don't see as much would be similar to the Blachey subdivision which you considered as well and approved. So, this is not something you haven't done before and I was present when we had some meetings before a joint committee in the Town Hall where Mr. Wines was invited over from Southampton Town Planning and you people, I think were probably invited to that meeting and~ some of you were in attendance. So, again we keep harping on the idea of what is the benefit of the Town of Southold by forming a homeowners association. In this particular case, we have f~milymembers who want to use the property and build houses and we want to keep that large lot in agricultural private ownership and I don't think on a small subdivision that it is fair to say why don't you loose some yield. If I had a developer come in here and he wanted to add. a hundred lot subdivision, not that I think legally you can make them do this but if he chooses to volunteer that information and loose yield, that is another story. This is a very small subdivision, it is thirteen lots. You get through the Gatz and McDowell family, you may use up all of those lots, We have three kids anxious tobuild like yesterday. I have some of them here and we have more kids rolling on the way so this is the situation where we are practical, we have locai people~ we've got a immediate agricultural need and we can satisfy the family and I can't imagine that somehow any board member might think that this is not beneficial for the Town. Mr. Ward: Which lot are you making a large lot? Mr. Danowski: I could leave that to your choice or I could pick it, it doesn't matter. I think we have been before you actually picking it before. Mr. McDonald: Have you discussed the covenants and restrictions that were put on Mr. Cohill's with'your clients? Are the~ aware of what we'did on that and if so do they have problems with those? It was a rather exterisive list of covenants and restrictions. Mr. Danowski: You know, I think the key thing that was a factor in Mr. Cohill's that allowed Mr. Cohitl or a contract vendee as you aware of Cohill's to come hack before the Board if they wanted to do some form of agricultural use that was more than what was called for in the covenance. Mr. McDonald: Was that the one that had the agricultural conservation review on it? Mr. Orlowski: Conservation Management Plan. Mr. McDonald: I was just wondering if you talked with your client's and they know that there were extensive list of covenants and restrictions that we used in that one. If they SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 21 NOVEMBER 23, 1992 read them and if they had problemswith specific aspects of it so we could talk about it right here and now. Mr. Danowski: I think the real practical point is if you talk to any local farmer and he is going to be objecting to any other person telling him how to farm, we recognize what the laws are and we certainly recognize what research has done and we are talking ~bout nitrate loading and some of those other questions. We don't have an i~m~ediate problem for the use although maybe somebody in the house department might argue with that question. Mr. Orlowski: In Cohill's case there was no problem. Mr. Danowski: No, there was none. Quite frankly, he was not the farmer at this point and so he wasn't immediately conce~ned and had the contract been deeded on the one lot you could live with the conditions. New tape. Everyone talking. Mr. McDonald: There seems to be a feeling that if you want to proceed on the basis of one tot attached to the open space. If there is not a major problem with that, make sure when you do your building envelope on that make sure that you have enough on there for all the buildings, if you are going to needbarns, whatever. Make yoursel~ enough room. If you remember Cohill we barely did it and we were back. Mr. Danowski: Yes. I remember the whole scene. Mr. Ward: The only question, if it is going to be a horse farm if there could be some consideration to buffers to houses that back into the parcel. Mr. Danowski: Sure. Someon~ told me you always want to plant trees around a horse farm because lightening strikes and hits the horses. The only other structure en the open sp~e is that you would want to fence the area obviously so the word structure permit has to be somethin~ to do on the perimeter of the property. So, with that comment I would resubmit a new map and get it stamped and be on our way. Mr. Orlowski: The only comment I have is if you have a irrigation well, I don't know if there is a way to draw it to keep it into that open space area because that would make that much more viable. You've got to irrigate your pasture anla4ay. Mr. Danowski: I have to laugh with Mr. McDowetl back there because he r~members the closing ar~lwhat happened to the irrigation pump. Mr. Orlowski: Is it still there? SOMTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 22 NOVEMBER 23. 1992 Mr. Danowski: It left the day after the closing. Maybe it is restored. I think it is back on there now. Thank you very much. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Kapetl has scheduled an appointment to talk about Randy Lacy. Mr. Kapell: Have you had a chance to look at this map? Can I approach the Board? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Kapell: What my client is asking to do is to set off the existing buildings on the road front end of this site, on the two acre parcel and would like to do so hut leaving a right of way to the remainder lot which is the back of the bulk of the property extending down to the sound for future use in the event that he chooses to develop the balance of the property. Mr. McDonald: There are two ~estions that come to my mind. course there was a lot of head scratching when I saw this because when you think of future development it boggles the mind. Of Mr. Kapetl: Well, it is going to be tough to develop. That is why we a~e approaching it in this. fashio~ at this stage. He would like to get some money out of it. Mr. McDonald: The other thing is, did he include the two acre size in the lot beca-use he felt he needed to comply with the code or was there a specific reason why the lot was that size because it was conceivable that we could do that as a smaller lot and reserve the remaining area at the. time when it is subdivided to put it into the open space. Mr. Kapell: You know what we did? We did apply to the Town Open Space Co~u~ittee for the inclusion of the farmed portion of the farmed portion of this parcel in the To%~lFaz~land Preservation Program bult they were not encouraging' at this time. I know it is a tough lot but on the other hand if you look at East Marion, and what is left in fanming up there this might be an important lot. We lost it in Greenport and it is on its way out in East Marion and this is one of the only pieces up there that is still being farmed. As odd as it is, we would like to keep it that way. Mr. McDor~ld: The other problem of course is the angles in the roadway leading in. Is that a barn out back? Mr. Kapell: That is a big barn. Mr. McDonald: Is it in good shape? SOUTt{OLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 23 NOVEMBER 23. 1992_ Mr. Kapell: All of these buildings are in relatively good shape. McDonald: And they are being used? Mr. Kapetl: Yes. Mr. McDonald: The plan for the future is to sell the farm or they want to keep farming? Mr. Kapetl: Yes, for the time being. There really is no other use for that land. It is not viabla for a subdivision. Let me just say this, I know my client is wide open if there is anything that will help him out and leave this in farming. Mr. McDonald: Is it a couple of lots? Mr. Kapell: Yes. Mr. McDonald: What are you going to do? There is nothing else left to do with it. Mr. Ward: If in the future some other grandson comes up. Mr. Orlowski: He connects to the long way there, is that a road? M~. Kapell: It's a road, but it is a private read. That is the problem. Ms. Spire: That road is finished? Mr. Kapell: Yes. Mr. McDonald: You would have to look into the legal aspects. Mr. Kapell: There has also been some discussion with the neighbons to the East who bought the Rosenberg property a~out access across that propert-y from Rocky Point Road.. That might be the most likely scenario in the long run. Mr. McDonald: For now, the only real question is just the set off and I think if he was prepared to reduce ~h~ size of this lot a little bit, just put a restriction on it that it would be reserved at some future time (inaudible). Everyone talking. Mr. Ward: What are you saying, take the fifty foot out now? Mr. Orlowski: No, but we can make the lots smaller instea~ of going with two acres, cut it down. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 24 NOVEMBER 23, 1992. Mr. McDonald: He has included the eighty thousand square feet in the right- of- way. When they remove that, which he probably will have to remove it. Everyone talkinG. Mr. Kapell: We show two lines there, one which would count the right-of-way in the subject parcel and the second is if you would exclude the area of the right-of-way then you would have to move that line back to get 80,000 feet. Mr. McDonald: Yes, well we don't need the eighty'. Mr. Kapell: Right. Mr. McDonald: So, that line would be O.K. and we could still take out the right-of-way. So, can we proceed on that basis? Use this line as your property line. M~. Kapell: The first line. Mr. McDonald: Right, but show the right-of-way as attached to your parcel, as part of your parcel. Mr. Ward: ! see, right now you a~e only trying to create the one lot. Mr. Kapell: That is all we are asking. Everyone talking. Mr. Kapell: Does that create setback problems for us? Mr. McDonald: We can put a building envelope on that. We should probably give him a building envelope in the subdivision to protect him so he doesn't have to come back and get a lot of variances later on. Mr. Ward: So look at it, you may want to move the line just a little bit. Mr. McDonald: See where it makes sense to you. Everyone talking. Mr. Kapell: Thank you very much, I will get back to you with the plans. Mr. Orlowski: Does anyone else have any questions o.r c~%ents for the Board? No further comments or ~Gestions, I will entertain a motion to adjourn. SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD 25 NOVEMBER 23, !9~ Mr. McDonald: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Any questions? Ail those in favor? Ayes: .Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordere{t. Being there were no further questions to come before the the meeting was adjourned at 8:45 p.m. ~e~pectfully~ubmitted, ~ane Rousseau, Secretary Richard Ward, Chairman RECEIVED AND FILED BY ~ ~o~o~.~ ~o¥~ c~ ~/~/~ · DATE $ HOb~ /° ~