HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/29/1992PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman
George Ritchie Latham. Jr.
Richard G. Ward
Mark S. McDonald
Kenneth L. Edwards
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
SCOTT L. HARRIS
Supe~isor
Town Hall. 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
SouthOld. New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-1823
MINUTES
Present Were:
JUNE 29, 1992
Bennett Orlowski Jr., Chairman
G. Ritchie Latham
Richard Ward
Kenneth Edwards
Mark McDonald
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Holly Perrone
Mr. Orlowski: Good evening, I would like to call this meeting
· to order. First order of business; Board to set Monday, July
20, 1992 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road,
Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning
Board meeting.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes:.Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Subdivision - Final;
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 2 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. Orlowski: 7:30 p.m.. George Stepnoski (SouthotdFire
District) This minor subdivision is fox two lots on 21.044
acres located at Main Bayview Road and Ba~ater Avenue in
Southold. SCTM $1000-75-4-22. We have proof of publication in
the local papers and at this time everything is in order for a
hearing. I'll ask if there are any objections to this
subdivision? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this
subdivision? Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither
pro nor con but may have information pertaining to this
subdivision that would be of interest to the Board? Hearing
none, any questions from the Board?
Board: .No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: Being there are no further questions, I'll
entertain a motion to close the hearing.
Mr. Ward: So moved.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered. Does the Board have any
pleasure on this?
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion.
WHEREAS, George Stepnoski, is the owner of the property
known and designated as SCTM ~1000-75-4-21 & 22, located at Main
Bayview and Baywater Avenue; and
WHEREAS, this minor subdivision, to be known as Minor
Subdivision for George Stepnoski, is foz two lots on 21.044
acres; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
February 24, 1992; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said
subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on
June 29, 1992; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision
Regulations of the Town of Southold have been ~et; and
be it therefore,
OUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 3 JUNE 29, 1992
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and
uthorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey dated June 1,
992.
.r. Latham: Second.
.r. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
yOtion? Ail those in favor?
es: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
ubdivisions - Preliminary:
Mr. Orlowski: 7:35 p.m. Briarcliff Acres - This major
~bdivision is for seventeen lots on 35.7022 acres located on
She north side of Main Road off Maple Road in Southold.
SCTM ~1000-75-2-8 & 9. We have proof of publication in the
local papers and. at this time everything is in order for a
~ublic hearing. I'll ask if there are any objections to this
ubdivision? Hearing none, are there any endorsements of this
lubdivision?
r. Rayn0r: I am the agent for Mr. Chicanowicz and Mr. Jerome.
Thissubdivision ~as been before you since 1990. It is
~eventeen lots si{uated on thirty-five plns acres, We received
iketCh plan approval in July of 1991 and the sketch extension in
anuary of 19~2plus the ma~s were reviewediback in December of
991 and amended at the request of the Plan~ing Board. The
Planning Board approved the Negative Declaration and the SEQRA
in December of 1931. In February of 1992 we received a waiver
from a 280A application before the Zoning Board of Appeals for
preliminary ~aps before you, I believe are in conformity with
both the Town Engineers recommendation in his February letter
endorsed by you~ BOard, In April the Planning Board and the
Suffolk County Health services received a letter from the
Village of Greenport stating the water is not available for
public water and not available for this subdivision from the
Village system because they are working on test holes and test
wells with the ~uffolk Department of Health Services. I believe
this project is completely consistent with the Department of
Health Services density standards for the groundwater protection
for a water study in the Suffolk County Sanitary Code. The maps
before you are in conformity with Section Al06 subdivision
regulations of the Townand we would request approval. If the
Board has any questions, I'll try and answer them.
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 4 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. Orlowski: Is anyone else in favor or this subdivision?
Hearing none, is there anyone out there neither pro nor con but
may have information pertaining to this subdivision that would
be of interest to the Board? Hearing none, any questions from
the Board?
Board: No.
Mr. Orlowski: Being there are no further questions or c~m,ents,
I will entertain a motion to close the hearing.
Mr. McDonald: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Oriowski: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Orlowski.
Opposed? So ordered. What is the pleasure of
Mr. Orlowski:
the Board?
Mr. McDOnald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
preliminary approval on the maps dated April 16, 1992, for the
major subdivision of Briarcliff Acres.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and s~conded. Any questions on the
motion? All-those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
SITE PLANS
Setting of Final Hearings
Mr. Orlowski: Port of Eqypt Enterprises~ Inc. - This proposed
site plan is to construct a 25,375 square foot storage building
located at the south east side of the marina on Route 25 in
Southold. SCTM ~t000-56-4-10.1, 11 & 13.2 and SC5~4
~1000-56-6-3.2, 3.3, 4 & 6.1.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
~SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 5 JUNE 29, 1992
Be it RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set
Monday, July 20, 1992 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public hearing on
the site plan dated June 15, 1992.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.
motion? All those in favor?
Any questions on the
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards,
Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings:
Mr. Orlowski: Paul Matthews (Willow Run) - This major
subdivision is for thirty-four lots on 70 acres located on the
north side of Mill Road; 852 feet east of Reeve Road, and on the
south side of soundview Avenue in Mattituck.
SCTM ~1000-100-2-1.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. chairman, lacking Suffolk County Planning
Commission resolution, I move that we hold this open.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is
ior two lots on 3.743 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck
Lane in Mattituck. SCT~%1000-113-8-5- This is at the zoning
Board of Appeals waiting for a determination. I'll entertain a
motion to keep this hearing open.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on this
motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward., Mr. Orlowski.
* SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 6 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: Wolf Pit Estates - Board to discuss amending
the Declazation o~ Covenants and Restrictions for this major
subdivision located on Mill Road in Mattituck.
SCTM $1000-107-4-2.1.
Mr. McDonald: I move that we hold this open until agreement has
been made on the paper work.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.
motion? All those in favor?
Any questions on the
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE C~tANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS
Sketch Extensions
Mr. Orlowski: Annette Zabohonski - This minor subdivision is
for two lots on 5.91 acres located on Crescent Avenue on Fishers
Island. SCTM ~1000-6-2-1.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I would tike to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six
month extension of sketch approval from July' 13, 1992 to Januar~
13, 1993.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.
motion? All those in favor?
A~uyquestions on the
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES., SET OFF
APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALIT~R~=~rIEW ACT
~ SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 7 JUNE 29, 1992
Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Michael A8~ms This minor subdivision is for
two lots on 71.42 acres located on Sound Avenue in Mattituck.
SCTM %1000-121-5-4.1.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes
itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination
of non-significance, and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions' on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Laths]n, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards..
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Orlowski: David S. & Elizabeth T. Branch - This minor
subdivision is for two lots on 3.676 acres located on the
northwest corner of Eugene's Road and Skunk Lane in Cutchogue.
SCTM %1000-97-3-17 & 18.2.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I would like to make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Enviror~ental Quality Review Act, establishes
itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination
of non-significance, and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Orlowski, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
SITE PLANS
Final Determinations:
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 8 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. Orlowski: Future Screw Machine Products - This proposed
site planis for 343 square foot addition to an existing machine
products building on CR 48 in Southoldo
SCTM ~1000-59-7-33. As of right now, the plan is in the
Building Depaztment awaiting certification. We can do something
in regards to SEQRA, does the Board have any pleasure?
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, do an
uncoordinated review of this unlisted action. The Planning
Board establishes itself as Lead Agency, and as Lead Agency
makes a determination of non-significance and grants a Negative
Declaration.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion? Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward, Mr. Edwards,
Mr. Latham, Mro Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
(See below for additional resolution for Future Screw Machine)
Mr. Orlowski: Daniel C. Mooney - This proposed site plan is
for the conversion of a residence to an offiCe and the expansion
of a one stOry building, on 40,447 square feet located on Route
25 in Mattituck.
SCTM 9t000-122-3-3.4 & 5. This too, is also waiting in the
Building Department to be certified so we cannot take any action.
Mr. Mooney: We were asked by the Building Department to make
certain changes in the plans and we made those changes and we
supplied the new plans to the Building Department. It is beyond
our control what is happening there apparently and that is why
we would like to have approval subject to certification. If we
don't have certification we will be back here at the next
meeting but if it does come we don't have to come back again.
Mr. McDonald: What were the changes?
Mr. Mooney: They wanted a protective barrier around the propane
tank and they wanted the yellow house listed as residential and
the ZBA asked for that so we did that as well. Mr. VanTuyl did
the plans.
Mr. Edwards: Ail the conditions have been met?
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 9 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. Mooney: Yes.
Mr. Orlowski: Have youseen the revised plans?
Mr. McDonald: Do we have copies o~ the revised plans that were
submitted to the Building Department?
Ms. Scopaz: Yes, the revised plans, were submitted.
Mr. McDonald: Is there any problem from our side in those
revised plans?
Ms. Scopaz: The plans are in accordance with everything we have
asked for.
Mr. Orlowski: As long as there are no more changes. You took a
look at the map?
Mr. Mooney: Mr. Lessard asked for the changes and we made the
ones that he asked for.
Mr. McDonald: If he has made changes that we haven't seen on
his, we don't want to just give a conditional approval and then
have significant changes come back..
Mr. McDonald: Do you mind if I make a resolution in regard to
Future Screw Parts. I move that we approve the site plan
conditioned on receipt of the certified plan from the Building
Repartment with no changes.
Ms. Scopaz: In other words, are you suggesting that the wording
be such that if the certification comes back for the plan
exactly as it was sent to them, that the approval stand and any
change that comes back before this Board ....
Mr. McDonald: What if there is a major change?
Mr. Orlowski: There isn't though.
Mr. McDonald: I'm thinking about the future. O.K., I will
amend my motion to say that the plan that is submitted is
certified.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. McDonald:
Mr. Orlowski:
questions on the motion.
On which one did you do that?
Future Screw. Would you like me to restate it?
No. We have a motion made and seconded. Any
All those in Eavor?
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 10 JUNE 29, 1992
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward,
Mr. Edwards, Mr. McDonald.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
*****************************************
Mr. Orlowski: Now, on Daniel C. Mooney.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board acting under
the State Enviror~ental Quality Review Act, do establish itself
as Lead Agency, as a Lead Agency makes a determination of
non-significance and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Orlowski: Mark, that was the next resolution.
Mr. McDonald: Oh, I'm sorry. Didn't we need a SEQRA on Mr.
Mooney as well?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. McDonald: I'll withdraw my motion.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
WHEREAS, Maureen M. Mooney and Daniel C. Mooney are the
owners of the property known and designated as North Fork Beer &
Soda Distributors Inc. SCTM $1000-122-f3-3, 4 & 5, located at
11600 Main Road inMattituck; and
WHEREAS, a formal application for the approval of this site
plan was submitted on March 4, 1992; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Azticle 8), Part 617,
declared itself Lead Agency and issued a Negative Declaration on
June 8, 1992; and
WHEREAS, this site plan has been submitted to the Building
Inspector, this approval will be subject to certification by the
Building Inspector and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Site Plan Regulations
of the Town of Southold have been met;
be it therefore,
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant
conditional final approval on the surveys dated June 23, 1992,
and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys subject
~ SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 11 JUNE 29, 1992
to the merger of lots .identified as SCTM ~1000-3-3,4 & 5 and
subject to the certification from the Building Inspector.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on th~
motion? All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham,
Mr. Ward, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
SITE PLANS STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY P~EVIEW ACT
Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: Future Screw Machine Products - SCTM
~1000-59-7-33. This is done.
Mr. Orlowski: Matt-A-Mar Marina - This proposed addition to
an existing 2,064 square foot restaurant building, for use of
food preparation, storage space and equipment, as well as two
bathrooms for handicapped patrons as mandated by the Suffolk
County Health Department. SCTM ~1Q00-i14-3-1.
Mr. Ward: ~ir. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning. Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes
itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination
of non-significance, and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Orlows~i: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion?
Mr. McDonald: Yes, was this coordinated?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. McDonald: O.K., thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ward,
Mr. Edwards, Fir. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
~- SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 12 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. Orlowski: Mattituck Creek Estates - Planning Board to
authorize the Chairman to endorse a Certificate of Correction
for this approved subdivision. SCTM 91000-107-1-2.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I would like to offer the following
resolution.
WHEREAS, the major subdivision of Mattituck Creek Estates
was approved by the Planning Board on February 24, 1992; and
WHEREAS, the subdivision map was filed in the Suffolk
County Clerk's Office on March 25, 1992; and
WHEREAS, in a letter dated April 8, 1992, the Planning
Board agreed to allow the applicant to enlarge the building
envelope for Lot ~1, so as to allow all structures, both
permanent and temporary, to be located within the building
envelope; and
WHEREAS, a Certificate of Correction has been submitted by
Mr. Peter S. Danowski, Jr., attorney for the subdivider, showing
a larger building envelope in accordance with the Planning
Board's April 8, 1992 correspondence; and
Be it therefore
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board authorize
the Chairman to endorse the Certificate of Correction before a
Notary.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the
motion. Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward,
Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? So ordered.
Mr. Henry Raynor Manor Hill Vineyard SCTM$1000-10t-1-4.1. - I
would like to bring before theBoard a request.. I ha~e been
before the Board a few times at work s~ssion. The proposal that
I outlined in my letter of June 8th was primarily to subdivide
the property into twenty-two five acre parcels. On each of
those parcels we would stipulate a buildin~ area. The idea here
is to preserve sixty eight acres of vineyards that has already
been established, t would think this would be an opportunity
for the Town where the applicant is willing to go to five acres
to get a considerably less density on the overall one hundred
and seventeen acres. The yield on the two acre basis is
somewhere in the neighborhood of forty six or forty seven lots.
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 13 JUNE 29, 1992
It sits on a very large recharge area and the feeling being that
of cooperation of the part of the applicant, and giving up
density. The retention of the vineyard certainly would be
within keeping of the character of the neighborhood and we feel
quite honestly that the problem on the applicant's side is some
sort of marketing involved where each, almost each parcel would
have their own vineyets. This in itself I would think would be
more than welcome with regard to the Board. I have been told by
staff that there seems to be a problem with this proposal and
that is why I came before the Board tonight as to whether or not
the applicant should pursue it.
Mr. Orlowski: How about clustering these more to the North?
there any chance in working with that density maybe with the
Health Department and clustering them more to the North.
Is
Mr. Raynor: If the Board mandates it, it is something to be
considered. We end up clustering forty seme odd houses on one
acre lots and it looks like everything else we have in the Town
of Southold. The idea here is to give some diversity to the
houses and give some open area to the people who buy them with
regard to how they might want to design, either a small chalet
type home on five acres. Yes, obviously it could be done, but
do we want to do it, no, we really do not want to do it. We
want something that is diverse as fa~ as living
character is concerned in the Town and that is why I have
pursued this as far as I ha%,e.
Mr. McDonald: Do you have any information or any inclination
about what your water quality is going to be?
Mr. Raynor: We have had three test wells, two of which pass the
old standard and the other of which came up at a 10.8 parts.
Mr. McDonald: Was your average above the 6?
Mr. Raynor: Yes, about 7.8 or 8.2.
Mr. McDonald: There will. be wells everywhere essentially right?
Mr. Raynor: Yes. Each one of the lots will have its c~rn well
on it.
Mr. McDonald: Is that any of the motivation to go with the five
acres at all?
Mr. Raynor: The motivation basically is that the applicant
involved is not in a ultLmate hurry to develop the property and
quite honestly he was out here last week with me and asked what
do you propose and t said I already have it before the Town and
I feel it would be an answer.
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 14 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. McDonald: You foresee the majority of these lots being
used, as it could be for any number of things I guess. Mini
farms, whether they are clustering or vineyard or whatever.
Mr. RaynQr: It is essentially the basis for considering the
parcel in the form of substance that I have proposed to you.
What I have sketched in there is not laid in gold certainly.
There are many, many options and diEferent ways, we could advise
buying lots off of Elijah's Lane to end up with the same thing.
Mr. McDonald: Where is the vineyard now? What portion of this
has the vineyard on it?
Mr. Raynor: It is very chopped up, the Board has in its files
the vineyard layout.
Mr. Ward: Any chance on this particular parcel of looking into
a transfer?
Mr. Raynor: I would say if something were in existence today,
yes. The applicant is about eighty years old.
Mr. Ward: But, in the other breath you said it wasn't in a
panic.
Mr. Raynor: Absolutely not, he was looking for something that
would be a very nice compromise and this is what I have sketched
in.
Mr. Ward: If the Town is looking ~or an exa~L~le of how to do
this, this would be an ideal one to do it with.
Mr. Raynor: I am afraid the time clock is running against us.
He has had a triple by-pass already. I think it is a bargain
for the Town in my own personal opinion., Obviously, this is
essential with regard for the Board members. We are trying to
be cognizant with the water shed and we are trying to be
cognizant of the density.
Mr. Orlowski: He is not locked into his layout, we could take a
look at this ourselves and come up with something else.
Mr. Raynor: Not locked into it certainly. I am locked into
something of a time frame.
Mr. Orlowski: You just said you weren't in a time frame.
Mr. Raynor: I said he wasn't in any particular hurry to develop
it. I am locked into a tLme frame with regard to how the
property may or may not be developed. The Board is going to say
no, we want one acre lots clustered down and the rest of it
open, that has got to be a option for him. It is not obviously
our preferred option. Our preferred option would be a spread in
lowering the density by 60% on the property.
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 15 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. Orlowski: If we want to move these around a little bit. I
would like tO take another look at it myself.
Mr. McDonald: It's a one hundred fifteen or one sixteen acres?
Mr. Raynor: It is one hundred and seventeen acres on which
there are just two houses right now. There is one large barn
for storage.
Mr. McDonald: So, you would anticipate a yield of?
Mr. Raynor: Somewhere around 22 or 24 lots. If you don't think
it is a bargain for the Town, we won't pursue it. There are
other options. I don't want to be repetitious, I thought it was
a good deal all the way around.
Mr. McDonald: We'll take a look at it.
Ms. Scopaz: Does this property also go under another name?
Mr. Raynor: under what other name?
Ms. Scopaz: Spectacle Ridge?
Mr. Raynor: Not to my knowledge.
Everyone talking.
Mr. McDonald: We'll discuss it at the work session.
Mr. Raynor: If I can be of any help or assistance, I will be
happy to.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., Mr. Cuddy is here.
Mr. Charles Cuddy: Good evening, I am here on the Bagenski
subdivision. I don't know if you have the map available to
you. This subdivision is 1300 feet East of Elijah"s Lane in
Cutchogue. You have sent me some correspondence which I am not
sure I Understand. Initially, I understood from you that this
was a minor subdivision that would require a sixteen foot wide
road and if you note from the map, if you have that map, there
has been an existing fifty foot right of way, actually road,
that goes to this property of three lots, one of which by the
way is already developed. It goes on beyond it and it has been
there at least thirty, maybe forty years. It has a name of
Wagon Wheel Lane.
I subsequently ~rom the Board received correspondence
saying this was going to require road construction ar~therefore
we were going to have a major subdivision. Three lots, one of
which'is already developed. I frankly don't understand what is
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 16 JUNE 29 , 1992
going on with it but I think it is purely simple a minor
subdivision. Each of the lots is two acres and one exceeds two
acres by a great deal. You want a fire well. Quite frankly, I
don't see where there is a firewell provision in the code, that
is in the Planning Board pa~t of the code. I see a provision
that proposes the size of the firewell but I don't see authority
for firewells and I really need to know from you what we are
doing and why we are doing it.
I have one other concern and that is with the engineer. He
has indicated that we need a curb cut in the State of New York
on an existing roadway, existing street. I point out to you
that in the definition of minor subdivision that that right of
way is a street. I am not sure why we are having curb cuts, why
we are having firewells and why we are having major
subdivisions. I think that the Board has imposed upon this
applicant... Especiatlywhen we are asking for two new lots and
we are into a major subdivision. Frankly, I just don't
understand it. I have read the code, I've looked at it so maybe
someone can explain it to me because I have to explain it to my
client and I can't explain it.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K., does the Board have any comments on this?
Mr. Ward: Well, you raised some good questions and we will have
to get back to you on it.
Mr. Cuddy: I would appreciate the opportunity to come back to
you. I hold an advantage as I indicated in my' letter to the
Board because ih took us a long time to hit water, we had to go
165 feet. We are ready to proceed but I would like this area
cleared up if I could.
Mr. Orlowski: O.K.
Mr. Cuddy: Thank you.
Mr. Pete Danowski: I would like to speak to the Board in
reference to Mr. Israel's development in which I have been
retained late in the game but I am aware o~ the map and I am
aware of the conditions set forth in your sketch plan approval
and Howie Young and I sat down and Kenny Abruzzo is here tonight
and they are going to begin working on a preliminary map and
getting the topo map~in trying to work with your resolution. We
will know how the drainage is going to work out when the topo is
done, whether we will still be into a leaching pool system or
whether your Town Engineer will consult with Young and Young and
maybe a grade of leaching pool system is not the best way to
handle drainage. In fact, that may end up with some form of
alteration of the general layout but it may PUsh the lots in one
direction and you may look at drainage going behind lots one and
two or behind the existing house that has been set off by
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 17 JUNE 29, 1992
resolution or even if we want to pipe it, to sort of speak,
uphill maybe back toward the open lot. When they bring the
preliminary map down, I just want to make s~re that I am telling
you ahead of time that it may not look exactly the same way
because of the drainage situation.
However, beyond that I think Richie is real concerned and
ha~ebeen before this Board before arguing about the merits of a
large lot with restricted covenants with the County Clerk as
opposed to the Homeowner's Association. Every time I speak
about it probably t have the same argument and the same
Richie would prefer not to have a homeowners association on this
development. I recognize there is some wooded areas on this
parcel, I recognize the school district is an adjacent parcel
but quite frankly, he wo~ld like to be able to sell a la~ge lot
and do some form of restricted covenant which wording can be
worked out with the Board and with Planning Staff to make sure
there is a limited building envelope and to make sure we have
some severe restrictions that get recorded. Your resolution
talked about twothings, it talked about a homeowners
association and it talked about incl.~ding a set-off lot that has
already been granted to Mrs. Mandel and have that considered
part of the subdivision and you talked about placing the
building envelope adjacent to lot eight. NOw, I don't know who
has got the map, maybe everybody does have it. As a practical
matter, the drainage will effect us somewhat but obviously
Richie's decision and biggest preference would be to put the
driveway back and put a limited building and forget the
way I draw it but we would like to limit envelope
back in this area with a restrictive covenant on the back part.
Whether it is the normal ones that we do with regard to
a~riculture or whether it is an open space easement, I think
there was some qules~ion About horses, and of course if we do
horses, there might be corrals or fencing but I think that kind
of thing could be submitted in advance to your Board during the
preliminary map stage and we would like to come in with a map at
the preliminary map stage that might show that. I bhi~k it
would practically be better, I don't know the benefit the lot
owners would have in this particular open space area. Some.
areas where people or doing tennis courts where they are doing
some use that will benefit all the lot owners t~en maybe it
makes sense with the developer, maybe it makes sense with the
planning Board. In this particular area,~ we would like to think
that we could market this large lot to someone who would be
interested in horses as a first suggestion. This is not an area
where you have got one hundred year old trees or anything.
There is some sloped area down the far end but we would like to
come in with a preliminary map with a tope in hand, with the
drainage figured out and not be shut off from having your Board
consider the large lot with restricted covenants. ~ it is now
worded, the condition of the sketch plan approval was to form a
homeowners association. Now, I would like to come back in and
have you reccusider that during the preliminary map stage. Is
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 18 JUNE 29, 1992
there anyone that is terribly opposed to considering this during
the next stage of the proceedings.
Mr. McDonald: The properties to the north presently have houses
on the waterfront areas, if they come in for subdivision if they
ever, I am assuming that the rest of the properties will be
developed in that area since it is already housing. The
properties on the south, Schroeder of course is denuted to a
degree although part of his is wooded, but there is a continuous
wooded parcel that runs north of here and then over towards the
east into near ~he property of Harold Reese. It is not
tremendously large but it is all that is left in the way of
green space in this area presently. The purpose of creating the
large lot essentially, doesn't create any real advantage for the
applicants of the subdivision either although it certainly is a
better marketing tool, I wouldn't question that and it may make
the lot more saleable. But, in the long run, I think the
interest of the community are much better served and the people
of the subdivision by having some green space left in. this
area. If you look at the area, there is nothing left.
Mr. Israel: Just like the school piece, 50% of that is in
trees. It has been there for years. This has been farmed.
Mr. McDonald: I walked through there and aI~eady you can't walk
though it.
Everyone talking.
Mr. Danowski: One concept is Mark's future use of the property
and what it will look like in the future and the~reen belt
idea. That green belt idea, I think you and I could both agree,
is there regardless of the form of ownership depending on what
covenants you want to Place on it in the Piing Board. So,
the one concept alone you and I think woutd agree that says,
hey, if we make you say forever green and let's jUst take your
idea you don't want it agriculture alright, you can't farm it,
you can only look at it. If your goal is to preserve the green
area then what you give us is to sell Pete Danowski if he is a
future homeowner, this idea you will have this forever green
space next to you, it will be yours, it will be something
private, the birds and the bunnies can go there, people aren't
going to trespass over it, it is going to be maintained and it
is yours and you will still have that green space area so the
one concept of that green spacer I can listen to and that is a
reasonable argument. I just question whether you have to have a
homeowners association in order for it to be a green space
area.
Mr. McDonald: Let me ask you. The typical response to this is,
you can't use it anyhow because once it gets grown over a~
there are ticks in there, who is going to send their kids in
there? I have heard this before. I guess adults feel they can
take responsibility for their own action a little bit more than
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 19 ~JNE 29, 1992
you would for a kid. You would feel very badly about it if you
sent your kid in there to play and he ended up sick from it.
But, the fact of the matter remains that in the long run that
may not be the case. I don't know that may well not be the case
that you have to worry about your kid getting tyme disease if he
goes up there. If we take it, if you put a covenant that says
hands off. people in the subdivision aren't going to have any
access to it no matter what and they are cut off from walking
through it. If you wanted to have a trail at some future time
for recreatiDn uses for the people in the subdivision, Now they
are eliminated from the use of. it at all. This property would
benefit almost solely then at this point, the owner of the
property, even if it would be highly reduced because he can't
touch it andthe people adjacent to it on Stars Road would have
in their backyard, instead of having houses would have trees and
~nd the birds. I prefer the idea of taking it in
~at could be use for everybody in the subdivision in
another.
the bunnies.
the future ti
some sort of
Mr. Israel:
Mr. McDonald
M~. Israel:
Mr. McDonald
Mr. Israel:
Mr. McDonald
Mr. Danowski
Mr. McDonald
is not simp~
What use would be allowed?
Passages, recreational use.
Could I build a tennis court there?
No.
So, I could just walk through it?
That is right.
Your concept is that in a small subdivision .....
I would like to say, I see you laughing, but it
a laughing matter. The.idea that there are going
to be trees ~nd an area that is like that somewhere in the Town
Mr. Israel:
are the only
Mr. McDonald
to other pea
Mr. Israel:
walk through
difference i
It is only for the use of these nine people, they
ones that can pass through there.
Right, I admit that there are secondary benefits
~le adjacent to the property.
O.K., so you are saying that nine families can now
this lot and it stays green. What would be the
~ I had a restricted building and clearing envelope
and it remalDed'untouched forever, that the person who bought
that ninth lpt ~here knows. One of the reasons we did this was
originally these were two separate lots if you remember and I
could have c~e in and put a minor on this one, put a minor on
that one, handled the road this or that O.K.. We tried to get
access through stars Road O.K., a year and one half. We have.
decided that economics won because of the market and it doesn't
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 20 JUNE 29, 1992
pay for me to drag a major road from Main Road all the way up.
You had asked us to combine the pieces, I did combine the
pieces, you ~mked me, you know there is a little King's Road
there, go get the right of way over, go get this. I ended up
buying it O.K., I've created a good access to t~s parcel and
solved a lot of problems doing it. We clustered it for two
reasons. The length of my road O.K., I don't mind saying, and I
thought that the subdivision would go through easier because you
had the people on Stars Road, because you h aYe the people that I
am going to have to deal with on this road, the three acre
piece, the two acre piece above that with the school house, the
ten acre pieces that are above that, if they know that hey, yes
instead of the this little private road which we really don't
have a choice about they are now going to have a public road in
there O.K., that there will be forever green in their backyard.
To them, they are preserving what they originally bought back
there for. What I am ending up with under your scenario is nine
lots on a major road where the more quieter I can keep this
place the more valuable it will be. That is what people like
about this down there. All I am asking for is for you to give
me my ninth lot that is protected that somebody who really
doesn't want to see another human being can go back there. I
have given up my value, on this ten aores. I am asking for some
kind of compensation for that.
Mr. McDonald: You want us to make this decision based on the
degree on economic consideration?
Mr. Danowski: I don't think it has to be on economic, but I
think when you talk ~hout open space, there are different
reasons for having open space. One may be used as agriculture,
and you are saying as passive recreation. We are saying the
ownership alone doesn't control that. The homeowners or a large
lot owner can be conditioned anyway you want. The question is,
you are now saying you want the greenery there, you want the
eight lot owners to walk through it.
Mr. McDonald: There will be nine lots right?
Mr. Danowski: Yes, it's nine. I'm talking about the eight as
opposed to the ninth lot owner. Everyone else can join in with
that one person that is at the end to walk through this in some
fashion. Have we worked out in the Town a green belt area
covenant as to what they can and can't do?
Mr. Mc~onald: We have had a lot of discussion lately. It is
just informal discussions and to a degree that we have been told
don't get involved in covenants and restrictions that you can't
enforce. Which is a major consideration for us in everything
that we do now. Basically, they are saying that covenants and
restrictions are not enforceable.
Mr. Danowski: I don't who is giving you your advice.
Obviously, you seek your own council but it seems to me that you
SOU~OLD PLANNING BOARD 21 JUNE 29, 1992
have got restrictions placed on the property and you have got
necessary consents to do the inspections to issue violations. I
am sure your Town Attorney likes to drag in building violations
from time to time.
Mr. McDonald: I~ you want to bring it in, you see by moving the
road up there yo~ are changing the variance. If yo? d~n't want
to go to the ZB~to get the variance and you close it in you can
do it as a cluster in there. ~ It is your choice.
Everyone talking.
Mr. McDonald: ~ecause you were going to move some of that land
out of that parqel and into another parcel anyhow, it won't
affect the layout in any way.
Everyone talking.
Mr. Israel: Wh~t about in reference to your park fee.
hat is not subject to a park fee if it's got a
Mr, McDonald:
building on it.
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. Danowski:
and I've seen ti
~at type of a covenant are we talking about?
have had different ones with different Towns
~ lan~aage and I usually send them into the
Planning Board !or review and say here's one from this Town or
that Town~ I think I really wanted to hear from the whole Board
and hope Mark wasn't the only one.
Mr. Orlowski: ~his lot itself doesn't lend itself to a great
agricultural us~.
Mr. Danowski: ~11, I'm not hear saying it is a flat piece of
property.
Mr. Orlowski: f you could send in these covenants and let us
take a look at Lt.
Mr. Danowski: It think what I really want to do is to be able
to keep an ope~ mind as we go through the prelimina.r~map and do
the topo and come in here. Obviously, the mapping zs not going
to change much ~hether the homeowners association owns. it o~ ~t
becomes a large~lot,<with a restricted envelope. I just want to
say to the Boar~ I ~ould like you to consider this as we go
along. I thin~,toput a building envelope back there and you
sell this large lot we can deal with the restrictions on it.
SOUTIROLD PLANNING BOARD 22 JUNE 29, 1992
George Wiser: Southold Villas - Issac had called me and he
has a request that he would like to run by the Board about the
other site in Southold Villas. The other nine acre parcel.
Right now it has been approved for (inaudible) and thinking of
changing it for sixteen single family residents. Now, New York
State has approached me About maybe if the Town went back and
fill in with another affordable (inaudible) there where they
would subsidize it with the same type of grant that was given
with this other (inaudible). If that doesn't fly, we could
probably go ahead and just build sixteen single family homes and
sell them around the $140,000 or $160,000 price range as opposed
to condominiums. I had Peconic Surveyors over there and John
did a map. Did you receive a copy?
Mr. McDonald.: The only question I had was I was. only concerned
about the resolution the Town Board passed on the zone change
that there were no conditions that were passed that would make
this not possible. Other than that, I don't know what the zone
change, for instance the zone change didn't say the SEQRA
determination said specifically for this and this. if changing
it will have any implication but other than that ........
Mr. Orlowski: Affordable sounds even better.
Mr. Wiser: The only problem with affordable is again that you
have to apply for it. I could put a grant together and have it
submitted probably by September but we wouldn't know until maybe
April or May at the earliest.
Mr. McDonald: $140,000 finished properties are not exac~ty
flying on the market either. But, I wouldn't co~Lit myself to
the actual layout there but conceptionally, what is the
problem. The front is already laid out like this and as long as
he makes his density.
Mr. 0rlowski: I don't think there is any problem.
Mr. McDonald: To see the actual Change of Zone Resolution, I
haven't actually read it, actually I read it quite a while ago
about the buffer's and everything but if they actually said bid
it for condominiums and a~fordables or something, we want to
make sure that we aren't doing something that is contrary to the
Change of Zone Resolution. Other than that, you are within the
Code.
Mr. Orlowski: I don't think there is a problem. The layout
that he shows there now could be changed a little bit.
Mr. McDonald: Well, it's a start, it's someplace to start
talking.
Mr. Ward: I haven%t even seen the map. The problem is the
depth of the lots.
SOUTHOLD PLANNING BOARD 23 JUNE 29, 1992
Mr. Orlowski: Yeah, they are pretty narrow, I think a 75 foot
width and I don't think anything affordable is that narrow.
Mr. Wiser: They usually run about 75 or 80 feet.
Mr. Orlowski: Are they that narrow.
Mr. Wiser: The problem with the affordables is that we kind of
put the houses ve~f close together.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, could we close this and then hold
this over to the work session.
Mr. Orlowski:
Mr. McDonald:
Mr. Orlowski:
Ayes:
Yes.
I make a motion we adjourn.
All those in favor?
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ward, Mr. McDonald,
Mr. Latham, Mr. Orlowski.
Being there was nothing left on the agenda, the meeting was
adjourned at 8:35 p.m.
Ja~e Rousseau, .~ecre~ar~
Bennet~ ~rlowsk~ Jr., Chairm~n-- ........ .... ·