HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-03/07/1994PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
Richard G. Ward, Chairman
George Ritchie Latham, Jr.
Bennett Orlowski. Jr.
Mark S. McDonald
Kenneth L. Edwards
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P. O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
March 7, 1994
Present were:
Absent:
Richard G. Ward, Chairman
Mark McDonald
Bennett Orlowski, Jr.
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Robert Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer
Martha Jones, Secretary
Kenneth Edwards
G. Ritchie Latham
Mr. Ward: Good evening. I'd like to call the March 7, 1994
Southold Town Planning Board meeting to order. The first order
of business is setting of the next Planning Board meeting.
Board to set Monday, March 28, 1994 at 7:30 P.M. at Southold
Town Hall, Main Rd., Southold as the time and place for the next
regular Planning Board meeting.
Mr. Orlowski: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion made and seconded. Ail in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Site Plans:
Southold Town Planning Board
March 7, 1994
Mr. Ward: 7:30 P.M. Burger King Restaurant - This proposed
site plan is for a 3,000 square foot fast food restaurant on a
vacant 3 acre parcel on Rt. 25 in Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-122-7
-3.1. Just a little background on this particular site plan.
This particular application is in the general business district
along Rt. 25 in Mattituck. The purpose of the general business
district is to provide for the retail and wholesale commercial
development, limited office and industrial development outside
of the hamlet center business areas, generally along major
highways. It is designed to accommodate uses that benefit from
large numbers of motorists that need fairly large parcels of
land that may involve characteristics such as heavy trucking and
noise.
Under use regulations in this district, any permitted use set
forth in the Agricultural-Conservatio~ district, any permitted
use set forth in the Hamlet-Business district, wholesale
businesses, warehouses, building material storage and sale,
building electrical and plumbing contractor's businesses or
yards, cold storage plants, wholesale or retail sales assessory
storage, wholesale retail beverage distribution, funeral homes,
train or bus stations, telephone exchanges, and there are a
number of uses permitted by special exception by the Board of
Appeals.
Hotel, motel use; bed and breakfast, tourist camps, research
design development laboratories, fully enclosed recreation
facilities, laundry or dry cleaning plants, fraternal or social
institutioned offices or meeting halls, and fast food
restaurants. Drinking establishments, automobile laundries,
public garages, partial self-service gas stations, private
transportation service and one family detached dwellings.
The base of this particular zone is a business use in the town.
The purpose of the hearing tonight is to review the details of
the Burger King site plan and not the appropriateness of the
proposed use. As many of you know, a fast food restaurant is
permitted by special exception in this general business zone.
The applicant has received the requisite special exception from
the Zoning Board of Appeals for this use and the Planning Board
is at this juncture looking at the appropriateness of the site
plan elements. Again, I would ask that you confine your remarks
tonight to the details of the site plan. If your comments are
not related to the site plan details, I"d request that you
redirect your comments or we will have to move on.
This Board is in a position of looking at a legal use that has
been duly authorized under the town jurisdiction of the Zoning
Board if Appeals which allows for the special exception.
Tonight we are looking at the appropriateness of the site plan
elements. So with that in mind, I would like to have those that
were here to address those issues to please address the Board.
And if you do address the Board, if you would please come to one
of the microphones, state your name.
Southold Town Planning Board
March 7, 1994
Yvette Milender: I live in Mattituck. I wasn't aware that this
was only to discuss the details of the site plan, but I know
that we had a public hearing when McDonalds was preparing a site
plan and we did have a chance to say the way we feel. I think
many of these people have come out to discuss the
appropriateness of the site and what it means to them. And
unless there's going to be another meeting to discuss that,
we're the community. Is there going to be another meeting to
discuss the appropriateness of the site, and how we as
townspeople feel?
Mr. Ward: Well, that's tonight. We will take any questions or
comments you have on this particular site plan, and that's the
purpose of this discretionary hearing that we are holding
tonight. This has been a duly authorized project through the
special exception process of the town. It has been approved by
the Zoning Board of Appeals. The Planning Board has the right
to review the site plan, the elements of the site plan, and to
act on those issues; and we are in the process of doing that.
Tonight's hearing is to allow the community as a whole to be an
impact on those particular issues - site plan requirements.
When we get into appropriateness as to whether this is the right
zone for this use, or whether this is where it should be in the
town, that clearly is the responsibility of the Town Board, who
sets zoning and approves zoning.
Ms. Milender: I think it would be very nice if we each have a
chance to say the way we feel about the site coming into our
town. I think that's why people are here. I think that we are
the people of the town, and I think you should want to hear what
we have to say. I don't think we're a rowdy group and I think
each one would like to get up and say something. I have
something I would like to say. It has nothing to do with the
site plan, but it does have to do with how I felt. I was given
a chance to speak when you were considering putting McDonalds in
here. I came to the hearing and I had my say. I said it in a
very nice respectable way. I'm sure all these people will. I
think that you're doing us a disservice not to let us speak.
Does Burger King have more of an effect or less of and effect,
~r are we less feeling about this than we were about that. I
think we should have a chance to say what we have to say.
Mr. Ward: Do you have anything else? Would you like to say a
few words?
Ms. Milender: Yes. I live on Bay Ave. in Mattituck. When they
had the public hearing on McDonalds, someone sitting near me
said, and how many years has your family lived in Southold
Town? And I just want to make this very clear. Joe and I are
first generation family out here. We left home, job and
children and we moved east to this rural area -~this paradise.
I travel 50 miles each way to go to work every day to my job,
because when I get home I feel like I'm living in the Garden of
Eden. I read recently that the North Fork is a state of mind.
Southold Town Planning Board 4 March 7, 1994
It is a way of life that we should all fight to maintain. We
love and support our local businesses. We do our share of
restaurant eating and have never found a lack of eaterys. Let's
consider our community and let out voices be heard in protest
against this and all fast food proposals. Let's give three
cheers for our North FOrk hamburgers and the Elbow Room and Half
Shell Republic and Fisherman's Rest.
Carol Birch: I'm living here a little over two months. I moved
to Deer Park when it was a two lane road with beautiful big
trees like we have on Bumpy Rd., I think it's (inaudible) Ave.
And the Department of Transportation came in and made it four
lanes and put a center island in and now Deer Park and Babylon
is fast food haven. And there was no fast food restaurant when
I moved to Deer Park, and that's over 30 years ago. I also
lived in New. Hyde Park a little while ago and they had a
proposal for a McDonalds. And the town insisted that the
McDonalds not look like a McDonalds, that it be restored to a
colonial building that was originally in that area. And the
artists rendering was a sight to behold. It was beautiful. And
if you go past Jericho Turnpike now, you can see that it's a big
two story fake colonial building. And the traffic that it has
put, and the strain on the traffic - Jericho Turnpike is a busy
street - but the strain on the traffic is another sight to
behold. I also, like this lady, I would like to second
everything that she said. I moved out here. I left my job, my
home and my children and I live out here and I do believe that
it's an eden. And I believe that eden is going to be spoiled.
Thank you.
Robert Goodale: I'd like to address the site plan. How high of
an elevation will this have on the entrance and egress?
Mr. Ward: Maybe what we can do, is in recap, if we take a few
of these questions, I know the architect is here, we could
address these maybe when they get a chance, to say a few words.
Mr. Goodale: Well, I'd also like to say that I'm in favor of
it. I don't drive 50 miles to go where I have to work. I work
around here and it seems that the anti-business establishment
that wants to have everything like it was here when they moved
here, once they,re here, maybe the people that were here when
the Indians were here said "We don't want them either - we're
just getting clams and now we don't have anybOdy". So yes, I'd
like this in my neighborhood. Thank you.
Alison Murphy: I'm from Greenport. On Long Island there's no
where you can go that is as beautiful as Orient and Southold and
Greenport and Mattituck. Everything has turned into a mini
city. I'd like to be able to - years from now when I move away
- come back to these towns and see it as the beautiful, as the
woman said, an eden as it is. Why do we want to destroy this
beautiful place we have, when there are very few places that you
can go that are as beautiful as it is out here. If you need a
Southold Town Planning Board 5 March 7, 1994
fast food restaurant that bad, then the people who want to be
there can drive the extra 15 minutes to go to Riverhead.
Martin Geldman: I live in Mattituck. It's great to see all of
these people here - most of who oppose the restaurant. We have
alot of restaurants here and most of us have seen alot of local
people put their blood and their hearts into businesses that
have folded and closed. To me it's always been heartbreaking.
The Burger King, isn't even like McDonalds which is privately
owned. Burger King, I believe, is a corporate enterprise. It's
owned by a company in Great Britain. It's corporate management
is in Florida and we're being used as numbers. They have to
expand by a certain number of a hundred openings every year in
order to maintain their stock and CEO's and top management.
Their renumeration is dependent on maintaining the stock or its
increase. And to do that they have to compete with Burger King
and Taco Bell and just keep expanding, keep opening units. They
don't make profits out here. We don't have the density of
population that's going to support a Burger King. They have to
have these units to maintain their numbers and we shouldn't be
used that way. Thank you.
Frank Carlin: From Laurel. I'd just like to suggest that we've
been through this study for over three years now. There were
three public meetings held, and also the Board of Appeals ruled
that we could have a McDonalds here, but no fast through
window. I would suggest that we keep our comments tonight to
the plan here. We've been through this down the road for three
years already now with three public meetings. We have enough
publicity of how the people feel. They're handing out this kind
of stuff all over town Saturday. All kinds of letters went in
the paper. Why do we have to go through it again for now with a
fourth meeting for? We're here to discuss the plan. I think
that to go to a fourth public meeting on this, that's wasting
our time, and it could go on to the way hours of the night. So
I would suggest to you gentlemen, that we keep this to the
reason we're here for tonight. Because we've been through this
already for three years. And I could stand here for an hour and
speak on it, of the reasons, and everybody also knows we've been
on this for three years now with three public meetings. So now
we're into another public meeting. It seems to me that we're
trying all kinds of angles here. We just can't seem to make
it. But now that the Town Board has been vacuumed into this
thing now, let them make the decision along with you people. We
have all the information we need. We had three public
meetings. Thank you.
Michael LoGrande: I'm a professional urban planner, and I had a
few other things in life that I did as being County Executive
and also Supervisor of the Town of Islip. I was not going to
comment tonight because I recognize and respect your right as a
Planning Board to restrict the discussions with respect tothe
site plan and the site plan only. But I do have to say this,
since this gentleman was able to speak up and say that enough
Southold Town Planning Board 6 March 7, 1994
has been said already, I think that one more thing should be
said, and that is that you gentlemen and ladies on the Planning
Board have done an outstanding job in trying to at least respect
the designs and the wishes of the community. But apparently,
there hasn't been the political will to respect the communities
wishes, because I believe that the overwhelming number of people
in the Town of Southold would rather not see strip commercial
uses...(applause).
While some people believe, that perhaps it's futile at this
point, and I recognize your patience and I think that you are
certainly to be congratulated for being patient, for trying, and
not even having the tools and the backing which with to defend
the town from the potential onslaught that these uses could
have. Believe me, I've seen them. I presided over the Town of
Islip for eight years and I know what kind of strip commercial
uses and fast food uses could do to municipality. All you have
to do is take a look at some of the communities in those areas
and I know Mr. Ward that you know them very well since you're a
Planner as well. But I do have to say that there is a way in
which this community could get satisfaction. And if there was
political will, this Town Board right now, would declare a
moratorium on all of these uses, study this for one more year to
make absolutely certain that the values of this community, the
urban aesthetics, the sylvan qualities of the community will be
preserved, and that what happens today, regardless of the site
plan and its actions, or anything related to that, what happens
today is definitely going to set a precedent and there's going
to be a very, very difficult time in this town to defend from
other uses coming in. I thank you for your patience.
Linda Fletcher: I reside in New Suffolk and tonight I'm
representing the North Fork Environmental Council, a non-profit
organization for the preservation of the quality of life here on
the North Fork. I would like to address this site plan to keep
my comments pertinent to that. I have two things that I would
like to say on behalf of the council. Prior to any approval of
this application, the following condit'ions must be met. The
applicant must agree in written form and filed with the Town
Clerk, to covenants and restrictions permanently excluding any
drive up, drive in, drive~ by, drive through windows and/or any
on site playground facilities.
Secondly, solid waste handling methods should be detailed in
writing. The applicant must present an acceptable solid waste
management plan to this Board. The applicant must be held
responsible for all off site garbage and litter, as well as on
site. Finally, the council endorses the comments of Mr.
LoGrande, urging a moratorium on formula food restaurants until
the Town Board has determined the appropriate zoning designation
and location for this use. Thank you.
Jim Hickey: I live at 535 Old Main Rd., so I'm the most
affected. Did you approve this plan I see on the drawing here?
Southold Town Planning Board 7 March 7, 1994
Mr. Ward: We have not approved the plan yet.
Mr. Hickey: Because I'm curious why the dumpster box is 50 feet
from my house? That's number one. What's with the fire access
on Old Main Rd.? The fire house isn't on Old Main Rd. There's
no well there to hook up to. Are you going to send a fire truck
on the worst curve in Mattituck, responding to a fire?
Mr. Ward: You're saying the break-away through the back?
Mr. Hickey: That's right.
Mr. Ward: That's only for an extreme emergency. (everyone
talking) Well it's a landscaped area. If somebody had to get
through it, they're going to get through it.
Mr. Hickey: Is it going to be locked, or is it going to be an
entrance and exit?
Mr. Ward: Essentially, it's closed off. It's not an entrance
or exit. The entrance is...
Mr. Hickey: T~ere is no firewell on the whole street.
Mr. Ward: There will be.
Mr. Hickey: Oh, there will be. What are you going to do about
the curve? If a firetruck went. around there more than 10 miles
an hour, it would roll over, or hit someone head on.
Mr. Ward: The access will be off of the Main Road. In terms of
fire fightlng and that, that would come through also, more than
likely, from Main Road, although there was the consideration of
breaking through if necessary.
Mr. Hickey: It's just to make it easy for the garbage truck to
make his pick up.
Mr. Ward: No, that's not true.
Mr. Hickey: Yes it is. I beg to differ with you.
Mr. Ward: Well that's your opinion.
Mr. Hickey: That's my opinion and now you heard it.
Kelly Cappa: I reside in Southold. When I think of Southold
and the North Fork, its a haven. It's very open and it has a
sense of freedom. Like someone said before, fast food alley is
Riverhead. If you want something, you drive a little bit
farther and you get it. We have our small town people, like our
dells, which have fine hamburgers, I must say, and you canrget
them here or you could go to a McDonalds in 15 minutes like a
person over there said. When you go to Europe and different
Southold Town Planning Board 8 March 7, 1994
places, they do think of America as a fast food, quote-unquote,
small things, we're compact. But, I don't think that the North
Fork is America, in that sense. I think that we should be
ourselves. I think that we should stand alone and show that we
are an open place and we shouldn't get leeched on to what is the
stereotypical America. And also, crime rate is known to rise
around a fast food restaurant. And I would just like to mention
that.
Carolyn Wright: I'm from Bray Ave. in Mattituck. I'd like to
address two things. One is the site plan, but first I'd like to
say like almost everybody else here, I'm opposed to it. I don't
think we need it, and i don't think we've been heard in the
past. When we said it, we were ignored. But as to the specific
site, I'd like you to consider something. There are five dells
within a two or five minute walking distance of the proposed
site. If this is allowed, you will damage all of them. You may
even put some of them out of business, and that would be a
shame, because they have been there for 20 or 30 years, in some
case, or longer. I don't think you have considered what it's
going to do to Bray Ave. I have a very good view of it from my
second floor windows. I watch people coming careening around
the boulevard and down Bray Ave. They use it as a speed way and
a cut through~ There are alot of small children on that block.
You will really turn it into a speedway, especially in the
summer. The young lady brought up the crime rate. Yes, it
becomes another hangout. We do need things for the youth in
this town but we don't need another parking lot for them to hang
out in. That doesn't solve anything. It's not progress. If
you must allow this thing into our town, if somebody has decided
we're stuck with it whether we want it or not, and I don't think
we do, then put it in a place where there's space. The A&P
shopping center has the old Gaslight Restaurant. It's been
empty for three years. They could go in there. The North Road
in Southold has an almost completely empty shopping center. Put
them in there. The North Road in Mattituck, across from the
Wine Garden, that's partly empty, put them in there where
there's already parking lots and there's already space. Don't
turn Bray Ave. into a speedway. Mr. Hickey's backyard into a
hangout and a garbage dump. Thank you.
Mr. Ward: Would anybody else like to address the Board?
Cynthia Halsey: I live in Southold. I find trash from the fast
food alley in Riverhead on my front lawn. I don't think it's
very nice. However, if it were closer, it would be even less
so. I don't think that you should put large dumpsters near
peoples property in Mattituck because they attract vermin, they
attract raccoons and I believe Suffolk is now a rabies county.
I think that would be a very unpleasant thing to have as a
neighbor, as a possibility. Also, I wonder if you have
considered air pollution. I know our winds blow from (CHANGE
TAPE). I don't know who lives downwind, but I do know one day I
w~s in Southampton where there are two fast food restaurants,
Southold Town Planning Board 9 March 7, 1994
one on either corner of the major highway. The aroma of bad fat
was sickening. If I had to live downwind of that I think I
would have a very good case of saying to you, you have ruined my
property values and possibly my health. And certainly you'd
have to clean the curtains more often. And I do think, no
matter what the site is, no matter how pretty it is or how
pretty it isn't, or what you may think of the architecture, I
think you should consider the impact it has on everybody. I
mean that's one of the things I believe is in your mandate to
do, consider the effect on everybody. It's obvious that one
ancient corporation from Westminster in England, or wherever
they hang out, is invading us again.
Paul Calabro: I live on Sound Beach Drive in Mattituck. Just
to point out with this area, which we all know here, but to the
people who don't know what it's all about, the biggest industry
probably is, and to quote a lawyer from Riverhead just recently
who said it's a 6 billion dollar industry, is the second home
owners in this area. On my right, they come from Glenn Cove,
across the street from Rockville Center, down the road from
Roslyn, so this area they come here for what the area is. Alot
of for sale signs will be going out quickly, if this area became
like Riverhead. You people were put in that position to make
sure that this area stays what the residents want. And the
interest of the people here should be primary, and you should do
everything possible to defend that interest. Thank you.
Franks Wills: I live in Mattituck and I've lived there for 32
years. I'd like to address two points. One, the site plan.
Have you considered forcing Burger King to put up a berm or a
mount so that we cannot see the restaurant. And possibly permit
them to put a small discreet sign out to people who are hungry
to eat that kind of food to pull off and go in there. Because,
to a good extent is the visual aspect of the Burger King alley.
In the old days we said go to Paramus or Rt. 17 in New Jersey
and see what this can do. Well you don't have to go that far
anymore, you can go to Riverhead. I just counted them. Fifteen
or twenty years ago it was Dunkin Donuts. I happen to like
their donuts. And now I think we have 15 fast food places east
and west, and once the new outlet center is built at the exit of
the Long Island Expressway, I'll guarantee you they'll be maybe
15 more. Let me digress a bit. Fast food restaurants, shopping
centers, malls, discount centers, in effect are like a cancer.
And a cancer is described as an uncontrolled growth. They grow
on themselves. Now let me digress and give you some
background.
I worked for many years in the heavy mining industry, smelding
industry, and in the good old days, the miners and the smelders
and the chemical plants would dig a hole, build a plant and we
would - I say we, because I'm still in it - dump, discard
whatever we didn't need. We took the good stuff out and the
rest went someplace. Without being sacrilegious, and I mean
that, I would like to quote what might be appropriate right
Southold Town Planning Board 10 March 7, 1994
now. In Luke, it says, "Father, forgive them, for they know not
what they do". Then, in those days, industry - let's be kind -
really didn't know what they were dumping. Nowadays we do. And
I'm trying to form a simile between what industry did to this
country - and I'm saying I'm still in it, I'm still involved in
the metal business - we have (inaudible) to extend reforms, and
to what we, you the Board and the Town Board, and if we allow
this, the citizens who live here, to have our area spoiled and
polluted, for what? Basically for greed. Enough said.
Mr. Ward: I've noticed a couple of hands that are up have
spoken already. If you haven't spoken, we'd like to have you go
first.
Mike DiSilv±o: I'm a student at Mattituck High School. Alot of
people might not listen to me because I'm just a kid and
everything, but I like when the bell rings and we go down to
lunch and go to Doughertys and Skips and stuff like that with my
friends, because I like to get sandwiches and stuff. If I want
to go to McDonalds, I can get in a car, because we have enough
time to go to Riverhead and get a burger or whatever there. And
when you go to the movies, you already have to worry about kids
coming from other towns, and getting into fights and stuff like
that. Just think of all the other kids that are going to come
from Riverhead. Oh there's a McDonalds that we can also hang
out right by the movies. So that's going to bring alot more
problems. And like Doughertys I don't want to see that place
go out of business because none of the kids will start going
there, and everyone else knows it. Nobody's going to go to
Doughertys from Mattituck if McDonalds is there. It's going to
be ridiculous.
Dorothy Ninzel: I live on Peconic Bay Blvd, near Bray Ave. and
last year I did an informal traffic survey at the corner of Bray
Ave. On a Friday, between 10 and 12 there were at least 500
cars an hour going by there. When you stop at Bray Ave. to make
a left turn, and you have your signal on, the cars are whipping
around you constantly. It's a terrible corner and I just don't
see how you're going to have more traffic generated by Burger
King not making it a much more dangerous site than it is now.
And I just don't think its a safe place to have all that
traffic. Thank you.
Catherine B. Harper: I'm a long time member of the National
Trust for Historic Preservation, and I'm currently spending the
best years of my life restoring local landmarkin Mattituck.
Believe me, no day tripper or local resident is going to go
hungry in Southold Township if Burger King, or any other fast
food restaurant, cannot make its home here. But the
architectural dignity, the non-commercial charm that
distinguishes us from the rest of the Island, the time honored
beauty that identifies us with a historic dignity will be
irrevocably compromised if Burger King and the like are
permitted to blight our streetscapes. When we the community
Southold Town Planning Board 11 March 7, 1994
elected Mr. Wickham, we made the front cover of Newsday because
we dared to be different. I think this is a time when we need
to dare to be different and just say no to fast food
restaurants. The North Fork needs Whoppers like fish need
bicycles.
Agnes Dickinson: I'm from Southold. You've heard the majority
of the people here tonight and I think that the people of
Southold would be indebted to you as a group, if you would make
the recommendations to the Town Board, that they not look for
the proper site for fast food restaurants, but rather put their
efforts into preventing fast food restaurants in Southold.
Thank you.
Mr. Ward: Is there anybody that hasn't spoken that would like
to speak?
Betty Ross: I live in Cutchogue. I've been against fast food
restaurants from the first and now 'I understand that Burger King
is going to be allowed to build a fast food restaurant without a
drive through. But my concern is, even if you allow Burger
King, shortly they're going to say we're going to have to close
our facility because we can't make it without a drive through.
So you're then faced with either allowing them to have a drive
through or have an empty building on the Main Road. I would
like to know what guarantee the people of Southold have that
this will not be given a drive through permission, down the road?
Mr. Ward: Anybody else like to address the Board? Would the
applicant like to address the last question which was regarding
the drive through window.
Charles Cuddy: I'm the attorney for the applicant. I live in
Mattituck, New York. The last question that had to do with the
drive through, we can't have the drive through right now. We
can't have one now, we can't have one in the future unless we
come back to a~Board such as the Zoning Board of Appeals,
unless we go through a hearing and get approved for that. It is
not the intention now to have the drive in. We've indicated
that. It may not be the intention in the future. I'm not going
to say it's never the intention, but its not the intention now.
We don't expect to do that. But we don't expect also, and I
think people have to realize something, its nice of you to come
here and tell somebody that's an applicant what he should do.
But this is somebody who has property, who has spent money on
his property, who pays taxes just like you and I do in this
town, and there are some things which you are allowed to do.
One of the things you're allowed to do is develop property, as
Mr. Ward indicated, much heavier than this use by the way. This
is 3,000 square feet on 3 acres of land. You can put 30%
coverage. So the owner could put 39,000 square feet of storage,
just as an example. And I think you should realize that, and I
not digressing from the question. But what I want to point out
is that right now we're not doing that. It is not our intention
Southold Town Planning Board 12 March 7, 1994
to do that. Do I foreclose that forever? No, I don't foreclose
that forever, but I don't anticipate that's what's going to
happen. We don't have that right and I don't expect in the -
future we're probably going to get that right from this town
because they've indicated they're not going to give us that
right. So I think that does answer the question. We don't have
it. We may get it, but it's not very much (?) that we will,
even if we wanted to get it. Our plan doesn't show a drive in,
we don't have one, we don't anticipate having one right now.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Cuddy, while you're up there were two other site
plan issues that were raised. One was on the site playground,
and the other was on solid waste management. Maybe you could
address those?
Mr. Cuddy: I'm not sure that the playground was addressing
anything but, I've indicated previously that we don't anticipate
having a playground either. For us to foreclose every
possibility, and I want to p6int something out. This is set
back, and I think some people don't realize this, 140 feet from
the street. There's probably very few people in this room that
have a house or any building set back 140 feet from the street.
So you're not going to see - the gentleman with the berm idea -
you're not going to see this. That was one question. There
were three questions 'that were addressed to site plan
considerations. Mr. Goodale asked a question about the
elevation at the entrance. Mr. Denis, who is the architect, can
answer that question. I think there was another question that
was addressed by Mr. Hickey, who was concerned about the
dumpster, and we'll be glad to talk to him about the dumpster.
We tried to locate that in a place, Mr. Hickey, after discussing
it with the Board. If we can do something that will improve it,
we'll be happy to improve it.
To get back to the playground issue, again its not our intention
to have a playground. We are not foreclosing to ever doing
these things, but we can't have one right now; we don't
anticipate having one. But the people would like us to covenant
virtually everything. I think we have. I was here when we had
a hearing before, some people that aren't aware of it we had a
hearing on November 15th, and at that time I indicated that
there was to be no off-site advertising and I said we would
covenant that. We will go as far as we have to go but I don't
anticipate having these things. We haven't applied for them and
certainly we don't expect having one in the future.
Mr. Ward: On the solid waste, do you want to make any comments
on that?
Mr. Cuddy: I guess there have been several proposals on the
solid waste. I point out first of all that we intend, and I've
said this before - I've said it in this room before and I've
said it in public before - we intend to take the solid waste out
of town. We don't intend to have it here. We're going to take
Southold Town Planning Board 13 March 7, 1994
it from this town and dump it someplace else. Of course, that's
what happens to our garbage anyway. But we're going to do it,
not at your expense, not at my expense, but at the applicant's
expense. And we've said that before. And I'll say it again.
It's not going to be at the Town's expense.
Mr. Ward: Maybe just in summary, if Mr. Denis would respond
then to the question on the entrance or the berm.
Donald Denis: I'm an architect and I have an office in
Aquebogue. In direct answer to your question about the height
of the building in relation to the road, it's about 6-1/2 feet
higher than the road. So you're talking probably about less
than a 5% grade of the road up to the building. As Mr. Cuddy
did point out, it is set back 140 feet. One of the requirements
of the Town zoning is 50 feet, so you can see we are back almost
3 times larger than the required setback. And the other point
that I would make is that the density of the building in
relation to the site, it's almost hard to find the thing. It's
a structure that is about the size of a three or four bedroom
home, so it's not-a large structure. It's one story. We've
done everything we can, we think, to litigate the architecture
by trying to do a colonial building with a sloping roof, put
dormers in the front, the bottom of the building is done in
brick with white trim. If you make comparisons, I've said this
once before in a public meeting, with fast food restaurants in
Riverhead or in Islip or in other towns, alot of those buildings
- for example, McDonalds in Riverhead is on a piece of property
that's 100 foot wide - it's a big difference from this. Thank
you. Any other questions related to the building? I'd be glad
to answer it.
Charles Ninzel: I live on Peconic Bay Blvd. just west of Bray.
I'm wondering about the site thing. The 140 foot back, I take
it the parking is all going to be in the front of the building?
Mr. Ward: No, it isn't. It's behind.
Mr. Ninzel: What about light pollution?
Mr. Ward: Well the applicant addressed that. It is all low
level sight lighting. There are no high poles of flood lighting.
Mr. Ninzel: Well what do you mean by high poles, just so I
know? I mean, a high pole could be 30 feet.
Mr. Ward: No, I.said there were no high poles.
Mr. Nitzel: What is it though?
Mr. Ward: I believe the maximum height we have is 12 foot.
M~. Ninzel: 12 foot.
Southold Town Planning Board 14 March 7, 1994
Jane Gorell: I'm from East Marion. I'd just like to ask Mr.
Cuddy, is it, he mentioned that people who own property have the
right to develop it as they wish. I'm just wondering, it isn't
Burger King or that corporation who owns this property, is it?
Mr. Ward: No.
Ms. Gorell: Right. So, why doesn't the owner of this property
try to find a tenant or someone who fits a use that will satisfy
this town, instead of trying to insist on something that we
obviously all don't want - most of us don't want. Why not find
a suitable use for the property?
Ray Jens: Sound Ave., Mattituck. I've been in business in this
area for 28 years. Burger deli. Music to my ears. You people
are fighting something that's being built in an area that in our
town has already been destroyed. Find another suitable use for
the property? Yes ma'm, go out and do it for them. Maybe
they'll pay you. There is a need in this area, if were going to
try and build and maintain our lucrative tourist trade, like it
or not, you've got a polluted area - let Burger King have it.
There is a need. Every time another deli opens in this area,
the next one does not go out of business. Traffic. People who
drive from Stonybrook bypass all of Riverhead just to create a
traffic jam in front of your Burger King? Let's get real.
Those people are on the road already. If you eat at Skips, you
eat at any of the local restaurants, you're creating garbage.
You're not worried about that garbage. The name Burger King
scares the hell out of you. Let's put Burger Deli on it,
welcome them with open arms and take care of our tourists.
Ella Timpone: I live on Bay Ave. in Mattituck. As far as the
tourists are concerned, I just wish we could have one of these
meetings at a time when our vacationers are here. You will know
they do not want a Burger King or a McDonalds or a Taco Bell.
They come here because we have very quaint restaurants,
vegetable stands, beaches. They don't want Burger King.
They'll stay home if they want it.
Yvette Milender: I've thought of a question on details on the
site plan. When I looked on the site plan and I saw the spots
that they have for the parking, I wonder if somebody who has
come from the sponsoring agency could explain to me - there were
spots for two large buses. What buses are they talking about?
Would somebody please answer which buses they're talking about
parking in that lot?
Mr. Ward: Well, there is a spot that has been designated for
bus parking, because this type of a restaurant normally does
get, every once in a while, will get a local school bus or a
tourist bus will stop. And rather than have them park on Main
Road or any back roads, we would prefer to handle everything on
a site plan.
Southold Town Planning Board 15 March 7, 1994
Mr. Ward: Alright, we are starting to repeat in some respects,
and what I would like to do, unless you have something else
you'd like to add, that's fine. (CHANGE TAPE)
Frank Carlin~ This is on the plan. How many cars will be able
to park in the parking lot?
Mr. Ward: Does the applicant know off-hand?
Mr. Denis: Parking requirements are dictated by the Town Code
and they're based on two calculations. One is the gross
building area, or the number of seats, whichever is the larger,
and its required to have 60 parking spaces and we've provided 56
parking spaces including 3 handicap parking spaces. And then
there was a requirement by the Planning Board to require 15
additional spaces which they refer to as land bank. It was
deemed necessary by the Planning Board that there was a parking
problem on the site that could require the applicant to provide
the additional parking. I think - I don't want to speak for the
Planning Board - but I think what they were trying to do was
they were trying to minimize the size of the parking space, but
leaving the option that they could increase it if it was
required, rather than have the cars parked on the highway.
Frank Carlin: Just a few comments and that will be all for me.
Can anybody tell me in this town, right now, where you can go in
this town right now and get a hamburger and a coke? (Everyone
talking)
Mr. Ward: Asking that type of question when somebody is going
to have to interpret this tape will be alot of fun.
Frank Carlin: You know what really surprised me. I was in
McDonalds this summer with my wife and I think this answered
alot of my questions in my mind. We were in there having a
hamburger and a coke and lo and behold here comes a school bus
in loaded with children from Mattituck. That told me
something. Why do they have to come from Mattituck all the way
to Riverhead to get a hamburger and coke? (Everyone talking).
As far as throwing stuff on the road, I have that thrown on my
road all the time now and it's not the fault of any fast food
restaurant, it's the people doing that. And we must not get
carried away with one thing like we did with the McDonalds
public meeting here. You know there are 20,000 people in this
town. We can't judge what 20,000 peoples opinions are with what
amount of people are in this room. We're averaging one to every
50 are representing the people in Southold Town. So let's not
get carried away how much $outhold Town...let's get all the
peoples opinion and I would suggest it to the Town Board that we
do this by a vote. (Everyone talking)
Mr. Carlin: But wouldn't it be nice if some of our senior
citizens, and don't say there's none in this town, would like to
go have something to eat in the morning and a coke or cup of
Southold Town Planning Board 16 March 7, 1994
coffee. Or the little league baseball teams who play baseball
at Laurel Park - the game is over, stop by for a coke or
something. Let's be practical about it.
Mr. Ward: I would like to ask at this time that we possibly
wind this up. Is there anybody else that would like to be heard
tonight that would have something to say regarding the site plan?
Carolyn Wright: Mattituck. Who owns the land?
Mr. Cudd¥: Cofam Realty. It's a partnership.
Mr. Ward: Cofam Realty.
Ms. Wright: He said it's a partnership. Who's in the
partnership?
Mr. Cuddy:
family.
Members of the Cohen family. Cofam. It's for Cohen
Ms. Wright: And just one minor point. A couple of people have
said, you have land here you can build on it as you choose. No
you can't. Because we wanted to add a bedroom behind our house
and we couldn't do it. (Everyone talking)
Bonnie Baumann: I own the property directly across - a partner
in the property directly across~ You'll notice I didn't cut any
trees down. There's something very very unique about Southold.
I don't know too many places like it at all. And I think that
something - forget about what it looks like - just the name of
it, somehow downscales the culture, the. aesthetics, does
something negative to our town. And I think the majority of the
people don't want it. They want to keep the specialness of
Southold. And I think that someway it makes it like every other
place. It says something about our culture, something about the
way we feel about our property. We're not like Riverhead and
we're not like the Hamptons or Stowe. So, I think that we
should continue to fight to keep the uniqueness of this town.
Linda Fletcher: On behalf of the North Fork Environmental
Council. I'd just like to re-emphasize to the Board that if it
is within you power to have covenants and restrictions about the
issues that the council has raised, I would like that not to be
taken lightly. The applicant doesn't wish to have these
covenants and restrictions for the playground, for the drive
through window, or to have a plan on file about how exactly the
garbage is going to be carted away. There's no reason why, if
they have a carter, they would have a contract with a carter,
that that contract could not be on file in the Town Clerk's
office. In order to ensure some kind of good faith on behalf of
the applicant who wants to make money here, I think this Board
should condition any approval that's granted with these
covenants and restrictions.
Southold Town Planning Board 15 March 7, 1994
Tim Steele: 35 years ago I was born in Greenport and I've been
in many cities and towns and states around the country. I'm
happy there's not a fast food restaurant in this town. I was
just wondering, where the garbage is going to go. Shouldn't we.
worry about that? It's being generated here. I don't want it
on my lawn, or where I work in my nursery, it's lawn. But the
garbage that's going in the dumpster - where is it going to go?
I'm sure maybe Riverhead doesn't want it, maybe the landfill in
Pennsylvania doesn't want it. What guarantee do we have that
it's going to go anywhere? What are they going to do with it?
Mr. Cuddy: I'm not going to be rhetorical, but maybe I'll ask
you where all of our garbage goes? It goes out of town. We're
going to take our garbage out of town. We've indicated that.
Ask us now, which this bunch continuously likes to do, is to
have a contract to say where it's going. When we get a CO, we
will have a plan, we ~ill tell the town ..(everyone talking).
I always let you finish, at least have the courtesy to let me
finish. There's nothing in the town that says we must do this.
We're doing this because our predecessor McDonalds said they
would do it. We said we would take it out. I've said it here.
It's on record. It's on record from the last hearing. We
intend to do that. Our garbage all goes out of town. It's
become nearly a moot point at this point. But we're going to
take our garbage out at our cost. I've said it before, and
we're going to do that. And at that time we'll tell the town
(inaudible).
Ed Schwinn: I'm from Southold. I appeared before the Planning
Board about three years ago. It was not the same Board that we
have here. I was representing St. Peter's Lutheran Church and
we wanted Lilco to put, I think it was 150 watt lamp, to shine
on the church at night, to kind of keep it from vandalism and
other reasons. But the point was, the light-was 60 feet back
from the road and we were turned down because that one light Was
going to create light pollution in the area. Now, I think you
can make the comparison that I'm developing here. We had to
bring a number of our people from the council to'come down and
fight with the Board, and we finally convinced them that if we
put a shade on top of the light, that would be satisfactory.
But it was going to kill the ability to see the stars in the
area out there. Now I think this place will be lit up alot
brighter than that. Would I would like to say is that I've
heard all evening here, all different reasons that individuals
have, but I would sum the whole thing up as saying we are all
afraid of what is going to happen. If that's all that it was,
that would be bad enough. But we all know, very very well, that
once that Burger King is in here it's just the beginning of the
end. And I would strongly second what that lady over there
said, that we would ask the Board to strongly speak to the Town
Board and make a recommendation...[everyone talking).
Mr. Ward: Is there anyone else that would like to address the
Board before we close tonight?
Southold Town Planning Board 18 March 7, 1994
Richard Tynabor: I live on Indian Neck Lane in Peconic. I want
to first thank you for giving us this opportunity. This is my
first meeting, and at this point I'm a little confused. I
really don't understand exactly where you are with this
proposal, so to help me out could you give me some clarification
please?
Mr. Ward: This is an allowed use in the general business
district. This happens to be a three-acre parcel in the general
business district. The applicant has gone to the Zoning Board
of Appeals where they were granted a special exception for this
use. It's allowable in the code by special exception, which
means there's a hearing at the Zoning Board of Appeals where
they review the appropriateness. The Zoning Board of Appeals
did put a caveat, or did put requirements on both the site plan
and on the building - building being that there would not be a
drive through. That it would have to be food served within the
building only. After that approval, it then has come to the
Planning Board for a site plan review. This is a part of the
site plan review process. The Planning Board has the discretion
to call a public hearing for review of site plan elements. And
that's where we're at at this point.~
Mr. Tynabor: So basically at this point, there hasn't been a
decision made whether or not to have this fast food chain come
into Mattituck?
Mr. Ward: Well, there hasn't been a decision on the final site
plan as yet. But whether it's allowable in this zone, it is.
Mr. Tynabor: OK, well I just wanted to he heard. I used to
live in the Hamptons; I moved to Southold. I work in Smithtown
and the reason why we live in Southold is because of what was
said earlier - the beauty of this town. I think you have to
see, 1Qoking at the audience here you have Mr. LoGrande from the
Islips, you have young, all ages here, who are giving you a
message loud and clear. We are the taxpayers. We are saying
that we love this town, we like it the way it is and let's leave
it where it is. I'm sick of when I go cycling, picking up trash
from 7-11, McDonalds and Burger King, which is probably in
Riverhead. I don't want to see this happen to this town. I
request that you bring this message back that - to me it's a 95%
united stand that this is not what we want. And my
understanding of having a Town Board is to go with what the
people are saying, because they're the people who pay the
(inaudible). So I hope this gets back and I hope you do come up
with the right decision. Thank you.
Charles Ninzel: Mattituck. I didn't hear anything tonight
about the site plan about the road there. What is going to
happen with left turn, right turn, exit and entrance to the
Burger King.
Southold Town Planning Board 19 March 7, 1994
Mr. Ward: The New York State Dept. of Transportation has
recommended a left turn lane be developed. The applicant has
stated that they will do such. There will be I believe, some
shoulder improvement on the right turn lane side which would
provide access into the property.
Mr. Ninzel: Going east?
Mr. Ward: That's correct.
Mr. Ninzel: What about westbound?
Mr. Ward: Westbound there would be a left hand turn developed.
Mr. Ninzel: The Main Road has to be widened there to
accommodate that area.
Mr. Ward: That's correct.
Mr. Ninzel: And there has been a traffic review done on that
area?
Mr. Ward: Yes there has.
Mr. Ninzsl: And what are the results ~of that?
Mr. Ward: That is the result - they're going to have to divide.
Mr. Ninzel: What kind of load do they show on that road, as far
as traffic goes? And when did they take the test for traffic,
February or July?
Mr. Ward: I don't have the details right in front of me, but
the DOT has very good information plus they did hire a traffic
engineer to review this sites specific situation.
Mr. Ninzel: No lights involved?
Mr. Ward: No, there is not a light involved.
Vincent Corrado: Excuse me, my name's Corrado.
engineer. We did the traffic...
Mr. Ninzel:
Mr. Corrado:
Mr. Ninzel:
Mr. Corrado:
I'm a traffic
Mr. Ninzel:
that the people in the community could do is just ignore the
restaurant and not go there.
What were the results of your traffic findings?
The results in terms of what?
Number of cars per hour.
For the restaurant itself?
Hardly that - on the road. The only other thing
$outhold Town Planning Board 20 March 7, 1994
Vincent Corrado: I'm from Dunn Engineering Associates in
Westhampton Beach. We're a traffic engineering firm. The
estimate that the woman gave before was close to the actual
counts that we got and they were done in July. They were done
in the peak summer season. About 500 in each direction, during
the peak hour.
Jerry Woodhouse: I'm from Orient. I'm not clear on what you're
saying. Is that what the existing traffic flow is now?
Mr. Corrado: The existing traffic flow is 500 vehicles per hour.
Ms. Woodhouse': What is the projection when Burger King goes in?
Mr. Corrado: I don't know that we want to have a debate over
the traffic study, it's the site plan, right? The traffic study
has been reviewed by the New York State Department of
Transportation and by the Town of $outhold's Traffic Engineer,
by the way. The peak hour projections for the restaurant are 88
cars, just for the peak lunch time hour.
Christopher Shoskin: I'm from Mattituck. I was a little bit
late so I might have missed it. What is going to happen to the
sewage from the restaurant? I don't know if that was discussed,
and also I'd like to second the gentleman from Islip that the
Town put a moratorium on all buildings for the next 6 months to
a year and also to review the whole zoning process of the town.
Mr. Ward: In terms of sanitary discharge from the restaurant
that is the perview, and permits are required, by the Suffolk
County Health Dept. and I believe they're in hand at this point.
Alison Murphy: Is there anything that we can do that this
Burger King will not be built? Is there anything we can do to
make sure that that building will not be brought there? Because
is widening our roads and building this building worth it just
for a burger? No. Is there anything we can do?
Mr. Ward: Well, since it is an allowable use, and if the Town
does not change its present code, there is nothing we can do.
Are there any others that would like to address the Board?
Bruce Isaacs: I'm from Cutchoge. In answer to your question,
the real power now lies with the Town Board and if you come to
the next Town Board meeting, if everybody here says everything
they said tonight to the Town Board, the Town Board can issue a
moratoriu~ and you have a newly elected Town Board. Put it on
their shoulders.
Linda Levy: Just for a point of information, the Town Board is
meeting tomorrow night at 7:30 and they have their work session
tomorrow afternoon right here in the meeting hall.
Southold Town Planning Board 21 March 7, 1994
Mr.~Ward: I would just like to personally, as Chairman and also
on ~ehalf of the members of the Board, we ~ave two missing
tonight but they will definitely be reading this transcript, I
really would like to thank you all for coming and specifically
the fact that we held a, as we do in $outhold, a very civil
meeting and that we all have exchanges to make and points of
view and directions where'we're coming from. We have heard
everything you've said tonight. We as the Planning Board have
certain restrictions on us as to what we can do. The change in
the code, obviously, you heard where that's going to have to
go. That's going to be in the direction of the Town Board. But
here again, on behalf of the Board we thank you all for coming
and your comments are duly noted.
Mr. McDonald: I make a motion that we close the hearing.
Mr. Ward: Is there a second?
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Ail in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Subdivisions
Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings
Mr. Ward: Hillcrest Estates Section 2 - This major
subdivision is for 20 lots on 22.9 acres located in Orient.
SCTM# 1000-13-2-8.5. What's the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. McDonald: I'd like to make a motion that
BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board continue to
hold open the final hearing for an additional time period to
expire at the Planning Board's March 28, 1994 meeting. This is
the final extension that the Planning Board will be granting for
this subdivision.
Ben Kinzler: Mr. Chairman, the Board, I believe had previously
held it open, to schedule the final hearing for March 28th.
When the resolution was initially adopted by the Board, we .had
set out with the greatest of speed and deliberation to proceed
to get the final approval done. As you know, the ongoing
problem has been one of water quality. And we've been back and
forth in terms of negotiations and if fact in efforts in
drilling the new test wells at the site and negotiations with
the Board of Health to obtain necessary approvals. In fact, we
Southold Town Planning Board 22 March 7, 1994
had come to them with a plan to install a public water system at
the site, which was ultimately disproved by them.
The last meeting, I had reported to you that we were going to go
ahead and drill individual wells on each of the 20 lots. We had
already had 3 test wells drilled. We then proceeded to drill an
additional 7 wells. We've been hampered by every...we've been a
victim I guess by Murphy's Law; if it could go wrong, it has.
There have been 3 major snowfalls. Each site had been
individually marked so that we could identify the sites, the
snow then covered the markings and we couldn't identify the
individual sites. We have Paul Grosser here, our
hydrogeologist. In addition to that, we went from Casola to
another well company for the purpose of expediting it and
directed them to move ahead with all deliberate speed. They've
had nothing but problems on the site, in the course of drilling.
(CHANGE TAPE). They encountered nothing but delays and frankly
the additional cost to us it appears that the sand is of such
fine quality, the augers are incapable of not being clogged,
and so that they had to now go to a different set of augers
which is supposed to be arriving at the site very shortly.
To date, we have a total of 7 wells drilled. The cost to do
that, to evidence our commitment to proceed, has been
approximately $25,000, with respect to just the 7 additional
wells. I understand from Mr. Grosser that the March 28th date
is just not a realistic one and in order to proceed the
additional financial commitment is probably going to be another
30 to $40,000 - just with respect to the wells. I know there
are a few items open in addition to the wells. As to those
items, very frankly, we can move ahead very expeditiously on
those. We're just beyond any ability to comply with a March
28th date, given the present set of circumstances. I've brought
Mr. Grosser here. If you have any particular questions, he'll
be more than happy to answer them. We would ask that you
consider your determination of March 28th; that you give us a
period of 90 days. Mr. Grosser assures me that within the 90
day period there can be compliance with the County, Board of
Health.
Mr. Ward: How about the other items in our February 3rd letter?
Mr. Kinzler: Alright, with respect to firewells, we could start
with that. When I appeared here last time I told you that one
of the problems that we had in moving forward, was that we had
employed Casola Well Drillers. In fact, back in October of 1993
we had employed Casola with for the purpose of having them
install the 4 firewells and paid them a substantial sum of
money. To date, they have not completed the first one. When
the urgency of moving ahead with the water wells on each of the
individual 20 lots became apparent, we engaged another well
drilling company - Land Air Water - and we've gone to another
source to have the work done. Again, it being our intention to
move expeditiously. Clearly, Casola was either not willing or
Southold Town Planning Board 23 March 7, 1994
able to move as expeditiously as the schedule here required.
Casola is in the process of completing the first well. With
respect to the wells on this site, what I would propose to do is
provide the Board with a bond for the installation of the wells,
subsequent of course to a final approval on the subdivision.
And we'll do that expeditiously.
With respect to item number 3 of your February 3, 1994 letter
and the items of December 21 letter, I've spoken to Tom Wolpert
from Young & Young, in fact I finally reached him today, and he
sent me over some correspondence which leads me to believe that
there had been some efforts to comply with that. Apparently
they have not done so. I was unable to determine specifically
what items are open, but I can tell you that within 30 days from
this date, we will certainly attempt to comply with every single
one of them. I can arrange a conversation tomorrow by telephone
with Mr. Wolpert and your office in an effort to determine the
specific nature of the items that are open, which are
essentially plan items, and address those. There was one item
that was unclear and perhaps the Board could clarify. In your
December letter I think you talk about certain issues with
respect to the roads. Oh, I'm sorry, I think it was an earlier
letter. But I think there may have still been an open issue
with respect to the roads - oh, I'm sorry, it's in your February
3rd letter - the issues is pertaining to road ownership and I
assume that what you are referring to is the transfer of title
to the roads to the Town, is that correct Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Ward: Well, I guess it's a question of whether it's going
to be a dedicated road or whether it's going to be a homeowners
association in terms of ownership of roads.
Mr. Kinzler: What would the preference of the Board be, as a
matter of course? We really have no problem either way. We
would be willing to go, really at the discretion of the Board;
whatever the Board's preference.
Mr. Ward: Well, there seem to be many issues here. It may not
seem like alot to you, but in a sense these items keep staying
outstanding and other than the Health Dept. and wells that you
need on each site, which maybe you've had some weather
impediment, these other items should clearly have been done by
now. I don't believe there's any excuse for that. The Board's
in a position of constantly putting off and extending beyond
reasonableness, in our opinion, the final on this. And as far
as I'm concerned, is that if you can't get everything else in -
if there's something missing on the 28th - if there's one item
missing and it happens to be...if we had the bond for the
firewell and there's a couple of wells that are missing, we may
consider it. BUt with this outstanding laundry list, believe
me, the 28th is (inaudible), and I know a couple of members that
aren't here, are ready to just say go back and start again. So
I'm just telling you that right now and be up front with you.
Let's get this thing going. It's been drag, drag, drag.
Southold Town Planning Board 24 March 7, ~1994
Mr. Kinzler: With that admonition, then we will proceed. The
singular concern we have is the expenditure of additional money
to drill wells. If the Board would allow us to complete all the
other items on or before the 28th, and to defer the expenditure
of the funds to install the additional 10 wells, which, if you
can appreciate, is substantial, would the Board consider doing
that?
Mr. Ward: Well, the problem is, if you need that for Health
Dept. approval, that's part and parcel of the approval of the
subdivision. I mean if there's no Health Dept. approval,
there's no subdivision.
Mr. Kinzler: I could expend $25,000, $30,000, $40,000 to finish
the additional wells. I just don't have the ability to come
before you with that completed. My purpose in coming here today
was to tell you, I'll do the other items and if you want to
condition an extension upon our completing or making substantial
compliance by the 28th, we will then proceed forthwith with the
wells. But to go ahead and put in another $40,000 and then hope
on the 28th when we come back here that the Board may or may not
consider an application to extend it, is really...
Mr. Ward: Truthfully, what's the consequences of us not
extending it? It means you go back to ground zero, you re-file
the plans. That's certainly minimal in comparison to $40,000
for wells.
Mr. Kinzler: We've been through an awful lot of time and
expense. Some of it having to do with issues of the Board, alot
of it not having to do with the Board. There have been issues
with Cove Beach which have been very problematic, other issues
relating to financing with North Fork, some of which you may be
aware of. Other issues regarding some partnership problems in
the Reese organization. We resolved all those issues, I
believe. Some of them favorably, some of them at enormous
expense. We're now at a point where we put all of those other
issues aside and we're in a position to try and focus on this
one issue, which is of some importance to my client. My client
has demonstrated during the past approximate 2 months a
willingness to proceed expeditiously on it and if you will, put
our money where our mouth is, and we proceeded that way.
Mr. Ward: Well, it would be real helpful to come on the 28th
with everything done but the one item you can't do, which is a
couple of wells, and let us consider it. But, let's have
everything else done.
Mr. Kinzler: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Members of the Board,
thank you.
Mr. Ward: Motion?
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Southold Town Planning Board 25 March 7, 1994
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Wa. rd: Opposed? Motion carried.
************************************
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS
Final Determinations
Mr. Ward: North Fork Country Club - This lot line chanqe
between North Fork Country Club and Frances Rogers is 16cated on
Main Road and Alvah's Lane in Cuthogue. SCTM% 1000-109-4-7.1 &
8.
Mr. Orlowski: I make a motion that
BE IT RESOLVED that Southold Town Planning Board authorize the
Chairman to endorse the final surveys dated August 16, 1993.
Conditional final approval was granted on December-13, 1993.
All conditions have been fulfilled.
Mr. Ward: Is there a second?
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. (CHAIRMAN ENDORSED SURVEYS)
***********************************
Setting of Final Hearings
Mr. Ward: Thomas D. Duff, Jr., Elaine G. Duff and Peter P.
Nitze - This lot line change is to subtract .41 of an acre
from a 8.23 acre parcel and add it to a 1.02 acre parcel on
Fishers Island. SCTM# 1000-2-2 & 3.2.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman I make a motion that
BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday,
March 28, 1994 at 7:30 P.M. for a final public hearing on the
maps dated February 1, 1994.
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
$outhold Town Planning Board 26 March 7, 1994
Ayes: Opposed? Motion carried.
Sketch Extensions
Mr. Ward: Jeanann Gray Dunlap, Martha Kent Gray and Benjamin
H. Gray - This minor subdivision is for 2 lots on 5.62 acres
located on Fox Ave. and Sappho Road on Fishers Island. SCTM#
1000-6-5-13.1.
Mr. Orlowski: I make a motion that
BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six
month extension of sketch approval from March 13, 1994 to
September 13, 1994. Conditional sketch approval was granted on
September 13, 1993.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Ward: All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
***********************************
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF
APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT
Determinations
Mr. Ward: Thomas D. Duff, Elaine G. Duff and Peter P. Nitze -
SCTM# 1000-6-2-2 & 3.2
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that
BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes
itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination
of non-significance, and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT
Southold Town Planning Board 27 March 7, 1994
Lead Agency Coordination
Mr. Ward: Braun Oyster Co. - This site plan is for a proposed
2,700 square foot addition to an existing storage building in
Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-103-1-1, 2 & 3.
Mr. Orlowski: BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning
Board acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
start the lead agency coordination process on this unlisted
action.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: Peconic Bay Vineyard - This site plan is for a
conversion of an existing residence to a restaurant. SCTM#
1000-103-1-19.2. We'll have to hold that over until the 28th.
(Mr. Orlowski planned to abstain from vote. Did not have
quorum.)
***********************************
Mr. Ward: Ocean City Club - This site plan is for a proposed
sports bar in an existing vacant drinking establishment. SCTM#
1000-122-6-36.
Mr. McDonald: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion that
BE IT RESOLVED that the $outhold Town Planning Board, Acting
under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, start the
coordination process on this unlisted action.
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Opposed? Motion carried.
APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
Mr. Ward: Board to approve the November 2, 1992 minutes.
Mr. McDonald: Moved.
Mr. 0rlowski: Second.
Southold Town Planning Board 28 March 7, 1994
Mr. Ward: Moved and seconded. Ail in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Board to approve the
February 14, 1994 minutes.
Mr. Orlowski: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Ward: Moved and seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: That concludes the business for our formal part of
the meeting. Is there anything else. Mr. Orlowski?
Mr. Orlowski: No.
Mr. Ward: Mr. McDonald?
Mr. McDonald: No.
Mr. Ward: Ms. Scopaz?
Ms. Scopaz: No.
Mr. Ward: Motion to adjourn?
Mr. Orlowski: So moved.
Mr. McDonald: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion to adjourn moved and seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Orlwoski, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Southold Town Planning Board
29
March 7, 1994
There being no further business to come before the Board, the
meeting adjourned at 9:25 P.M.
Respectfully submitted,
Richard G. Ward, Chairman
Martha Jones, Secretary