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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-01/10/1994PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS Richard G. Ward. Chairman George Ritchie Lathan~ Jr. Bennett Orlowski. Jr. Mark S. McDonald Kenneth L. Edwards Telephone {516) 765-1938 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD SCOTT L. HARRIS Supervisor Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P. O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax {516) 765 - 1823 MINUTES JANUARY 10, 1994 Present were: Richard Ward, Chairman G. Richie Latham Kenneth Edwards Mark McDonald Henry Smith Valerie Scopaz~ Town Planner Melissa Spiro, Planner Martha Jones, Secretary Mr. Ward: Good evening. I'd like to call the January 10, 1994 meeting of the Southold Town Planning Board to order. The first order of business is the setting of the next Planning Board meeting. Board to set Monday, Jan.- uary 31, 1994 at 7:30 P.M. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Edwards: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion moved and seconded. Ail in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. PUBLIC HEARINGS -- SUBDIVISIONS FINAL Mr. Ward: 7:30 P.M. William & Viola .DeLuca -- This minor subdivision is for 2 lots on 2.468 acres located on Luther's Drive and Naugles Drive in Mattituck. SCTM~ 1000-99-2-18. Is the owner here or agent who would like to address the Board? Southold Town Planning Board 2 January 10, 1994 Henry Raynor: Good evening Mr. Chairman and members of the Board. My name is Henry Raynor, representing Bill and Viola I)eLuca. As you are all aware, this is a 2 lot minor subdivision in Mattituck and has already received a Negative Declaration from your Board. In July of ~991 we were granted sketch plan approval on what you have before you. And prior to that, in June of 1991, the Zoning Board of Appeals granted a variance on this property. To date, I believe all the filing fees for the Town, as well as Park and Playground fees, the Town is in receipt of. We received the final approval from the Suffolk County Department of Health Services last year in 1993. I believe the map you have before you is in conform- ity with section 106 of the Town Code. If there are any qfuestions I would be happy to answer them, and I would request this final map be app- roved by the Board. Thank you for your consideration. Mr. Ward: Is there anybody else here tonight that would like to address the Board regarding this application? If not, are there any ccrmnents from the Board? Mr. Latham? Mr. Latham: No Mr. Ward: Mr. McDonald? Mr. McDonald: No Mr. Ward: Mr. Smith? Mr. Smith: No Mr. Ward: Mr. Edwards? Mr. Edwards: No. Mr. Ward: If not, then what is the pleasure of the Board? Ail is in order to close the hearing. Mr. McDonald: I make a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Smith, Mr. Latham, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. McDonald: I'd like to make a further motion. WHEREAS, William F. and Viola DeLuca are the owners of the property known and designated as SCTM~ 1000--99-2-18 located at west side of Breakwater Road in Mattituck; and Sou%hold Town Planning Board n January !0, 1994 WHEREAS, this minor subdivision to be known as the minor subdivision for William F. and Viola DeLuca, is for 2 lots on 2.468 acres; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant %o the State Environ-- mental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself lead agency, and issued a Negative Declaration on September 30, 1991; and WHEREAS, a variance was granted by the Zoning Board of Appeals on on June 7, ].991; and WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said application at Town Hal, Southold, New York, on January 10, 1994; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; and, be it therefore RESOL~fED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey dated November 5, 1993. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. (CHAIRMAN ENDORSED SURVEYS) Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Ward: Millcrest Estates - Section 2 -- This major subdivision is for 20 lots on 22.9 acres located in Orient. SCTMi~ 1000-13--2--8.5 What's the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman I'd like to make a motion to hold the hearing open for the proposed subdivision of Hillcrest Estates Section Two while the client continues to pursue approval from the Suffolk County Department of Health Services. Mr. Ward: Is there a second to this motion? Mr. Latham: I'll second it. Mr. Ward: Mr. Latham seconds. Ail in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. sOUTHOLD TOWN ~hANNING BOARD 4 January ] 0, 1994 MAJOR ANDM!NOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS Final Determinations: Mr Ward: Lieb Vineyard -- This lot llne change is to subtract 11.5850 acres from-a 13.9735 acre parcel owned by the Society for the Propagation of the Faith and add it to a 20.8627 acre parcel owned byLieb Vineyards Inc.; and to subtract 1.3848 acres from a 5.6956 acre parcel o,~ned by William A. and Virginia M. Asip ~nd add it to a 20.8627 acre parcel owned by Lieb Vineyards, Inc. SCTM~ 1000-73-p/o 3.1, 1000--84-~1--P/o 4, and 1000--84--1-p/o 2. Mr. McDonald: Mr Chairm~n I'd like to make a motion. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board authorize the Chair-- man to endorse the final surveys dated September 9, 1993. Conditional final approval %fas granted on September ].3, 1993. All conditions have been fulfilled. Mr. Ward: Is there a second? Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Ed~ards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. (CHAIRMAN ENDORSED MAPS) Mr. Ward: Harbor Park Homes -- This major subdivision is for 5 lots on 9.04 acres located on the west side of Harbor Lane; 675 feet south of Main State Road in'Cutchogue. SCTM~ ]000--97-6--]7 & ~03--1-20.5 & 20.6. What's the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Latham: I'll offer the resolution. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a six month extension of preliminary approval from January 11, 1994 to July 11, 1994. Preliminary approval w~s granted on January 11, 193. Please note that this is the last extension that the Planning Board will be granting. Mr. Edwards: Second the motion. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latbam, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Southold Town Planning Board 5 January !0, 1994 Setting of Final Hearings: Mr. Ward: Annette ~abohonski -- This m~nor subdivision is for 2 lots on 5.91 acres located on Crescent Ave. on Fishers Island. SCTM~ 1000-6--2--1. Mr. McDonald: BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold To~ Planning Board set January 31, 1994 at 7:30 P.M. for a final public hearing on the maps dated February 2, ]993. Mr. Edwards: Second the motion. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Fir. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Ward: Thomas J. McCarthy -- This minor subdivision is for 3 lots on 0.42 acres located on the northeast corner of King St. and Fourth St. in New Suffolk. SCTM~ 1000--117--7-8. Mr. McDonald: I'll make a motion. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town PlanninU Board se~ January 31, 1994 at 7:35 P.M. for a final public hearing on the maps dated July 28f 1993. Mr. Latham: Second the motion. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Sketch extensions: Mr. Ward: Harvest Homes Estates - Section 2 - This majorsubdivision is for 11 lots on 14.9 acres located on Oaklawn Ave. and Wells Ave. in South-- old. SCTM~ ]000-70-3--22. Mr. Latham: I'd like to offer a resolution. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning- Board grant a retroactive one year extension of sketch approval from June 14, 1993 to June 14, 1994. Sketch approval was granted on December 14, 1992. Please note that this is the last extension that the Planning Board will be granting. Mr. Ward: Is there a second? Sou%hold Town Planning Board 6 January 10, 1994 Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: Ail in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. La%ham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. ~AJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEWACT Determinations: Mr. Ward: Indian Shores - This major subdivision is for 42 lots on 105.6 acres located on the south side of-Main Road and the north side of New Suffolk Ave., in Cutchogue. SCTM~ 1000-116-1--3. What's the pleasure of the Board? Mr. McDonald: Mr Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. BE IT RESOLVED that the Sou%hold Town Planning Board acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, assumes lead agency status on this Type 1 action. BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Planning Board, as lead agency, finds that the action may significantly effect the environment, and makes a determ-- ~nation of a PositiveDeclaration. Mr. Ward: Is there a second? Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Ail in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Lath~m, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward. Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Ward: Under other items tonight we have the applicant from Bidwell Vineyards to discuss their project with the Planning Board. Bob Bayley: Ladies and gentlemen. The group that ca~e tonight consists of three ~mbers of the Bidwell family who are ~mong the owners of the Bid-- well Vineyards who are here to present and. discuss the family history here and some of the backqround of what went into the vineyard to this point in time. And in addition, we have two members from the architectural team, who are sitting over here; Donald Curry and his associate who are going to talk about the design issues. Southold Town Planning Board 7 January 10, 3994 So, I think we'll ask the owners to talk first, and they'll go into some of the background here, and if you wish we can have an exchange and debate some of the items that have come up, ~o date, and talk about them. Jim Bidwell: Good evening. Nice to be here tonight. My name is Jim Bid- well, one of the three Bidwell brothers. My brothers (inaudible) are here also. I would like to start by giving you a little bit of a background on who we are and how we got to where we are, tonight. Bidwell Vineyards ~as started back in ]982 as a family enterprise, and it remains that today. It has been a struggling business for some time. We have put a tremendous amount of personal and family effort into bringing the business to its present state. This is not a hobby. This is not somebody's personal way of expressing some desires that they have. This is our livelihood. It has been for some time. The ~ay we operate is completely hands on. We each have a personal function at the winery which is critical. There is very little that happens at the winery that's not handledby one of the individual Bidwell family members. All of us are North Fork residents, full-time, year round. We're not coming out here simply for the suraner season to have a boutique business; and then return somewhere at the end the year, after reaping any of the benefits that the North Fork may have to offer. We do have roots here. We're not originally from here, but we have all been here for years now and we love it, and we love it the way it is. We all feel that the North. For~c is very sp~ial in the character that it has and the rural sense, and we're very interested in preserving that. If not for co,unity interests, for selfish interests. We love living here. Part of what Bidwell Vineyards is going to enable the North Fork community to enjoy, is preservation of additional vineyard land. If we're capable of proceeding with what we've master planned, part of what we have in front of you here, it will enable us to go into the next stage of what we perceive as our ultimate goal. And that would be to extend further ex- pansion in our vineyards. We have currently about 35 acres of vineyard, and will satisfy roughly 5~ of our wine making capacity, at a m~ximum on a very good year. And what that quickly translates into, is a shortfall in our vineyard holdings~ The next step, the next logical step for Bidwell Vineyards is to purchase and acquire vineyard land. In order to be able to do that, we have got to be able to have a functioning business that is not restrainedbycertain ways that don't allow us to fulfill 10 years of hard work and investment. The plan that you have in front of you here, is some-- thing that ~as put together by Donald Curry and Drew Renter, who are Man-- tartan architects. ~e w~y we came to work with them is because Drew and I are old friends who went to wanted to expand, we needed we could to do the job, and firm, who happened to be in high. school together. When we decided that we to try and find the best people that we thought I had a friend who had a connection with a M~nhattan, and we got a very good deal. That's the reason for the distance bet~¢een ourselves and our choice of architects. I hope that they'll be able to address any questions that you have relating to the architectural ideas that ~ze're going to propose to you. That's certainly something I'm not qualified to do. But I want you to understand the importance of how critical the timing is for us right no%~. It's not something that we can casually go about. Our back is up against the w~ll, and we need to move on this. And we need to move now. I hope you'll con-- Southold Town Planning Board 8 January 10, 1994 sider that as we go forward from this point. Would mybrothers like to say anything as this point? Wb~ don't we turn it over to Donald and Drew. Donald Curry: My colleague is Drew Renter who worked with me. He was the high school friend who dropped this project into our office. I might say that I have had a surmner house out here in Southold since 1980. I'm here, not just in the surmner, but every week--end, year in and year out. I was here last night for the concert across the street. I very much appreciate also, the wonderful qualities of the North Fork, and we're certainly interested in working with them. When I say working with them that means that there will always be new building and changes, and I think we need certainly to have communities to have Boards that stay on top of what the changes are going robe. And I think quite frankly, we are trying to work with what I think where the North Fork is headed with future growth. This is a very simple project. There is an existing barn--like structure, which is the wine making space at the back of the site. There is a very simple, what I would almost call a dumb building, which is an existing block building, that has been added on to it. It is not a significant building, and the Bidwells believe that they need to add a tasting room to make the sale and recognition of the quality of their wine possible. And that is what the project is. It's no more than that. And we all know that, par- ticularly along the North Rd., there is nothing remarkable about the North Rd. other than it does have this kind of pastural quality. And the vine-- yards, as a matter of fact, are preserving this in a sense that they are green, and they have a wonderful rhythm to them, and this building and this complex will sit right in the middle of that. And we needed to create ~ kind of sense of place. And quite fra~ly, the Bidwells ~ant the people to stop here. They don't ~ant them to drive by. Right now, you don't even want to look over at these buildings. I have to pass these buildings every week--end when I go to my house. I think we'll be making a real contri-- bution in the change that we're making here. But the ~mount of money, quite frankly, that the Bidwells have to put into this at this stage in their development is modest. They asked us to work within that spirit, and I don't think that's difficult here. There's nothing fancy necess- arily about the idea of a winery, and we started with the idea that we wanted to build a kind of wine tasting room pavilion, sitting in the land-- scape. It is just a square building, with a typical kind of barn--like hat on it. But the problem of course for us was two-fold. How do you. create a sense of place -- a welcoming kind of place? How do you enhance the image that they have of producing really wonderful wine that is getting attention across the country? Certainlymyself, as an architect I've traveled all over the North Fork, and taken photographs and hiked and ridden my bicycle and so forth. I'm aware of what barns look like and what the wineries look like, what the materials are. What do you make any building look like? I think this building is in the spirit of other buildings located out here. It has earth colors, its a simple form, and I'll get into a little more de-- tail as to why we selected specific materials for the building. It seemed to us as we developed the building with the Bidwell f~mily, in many, many meetings over the last six to nine months, just ~ straightfor~ard simple approach to the building. But, as I said, we wanted to make a sense of place. We even turned the building at an angle. Southold Town Planning Board 9 January 10, ]99~ I did it at my house, as a matter of fact. I ~nted to make it seem infor-- mal, so I have different shape buildings or parts of my house turned at an angle to make it seem informal, which we did here. But, because of the character of the existing buildings, we have set the new building out on the road side of the existing buildings. And we wanted to draw you into an inner space, be dra~ into the tasting room, and we wanted the people who finally came into ~hls space to be able to look out and see the won-- derful geometry of the ~ineyard. It's not unlike when you just look at the landscape, you see one !thing, and then if you put a camera up to your eye or hold your hand up like this and look out, all of a sudden you're fram-- lng something and it seems very special, just like a painting. And I think that's what we did. Because we drive all along the road here and we see the wonderful landscape, and now ~e want to come to the Bidwe!ls. And we want them to try the wine and we want them to buy the wine. And so we bring them into this inner space. They can sit down on benches if they want to, look out into the vineyard, and then go into what is just a big barn--like room. It's exposed post and beam construction, not unlike, say the Wine Garden Restaurant where~ehad dinner this evening, and there are storage rooms on each o~ the four corners. And then there was a question of how do you light this. Most people come here in the spring, summer and fall, and if we could, I suppose we would have just made it open. But we really can't do that here so it's enclosed. We thought of using glass~ glass block, we thought of using a variety of materials and we finall~ chose -- we remember the, kind of light you .see with (inaudible) screens in Japanese architecture. It's a very soft kind of light, and so selected a fiberglass material on the three sides that face the North Rd. and I would say maybe at night, thel material we are using obliterates about 6~ of the light, so it's a very soft light. On the inside, it's sort of like being in a lantern if any of you have seen what a (sounds like Sho.-gee) screen looks like. We've brought some of the material, but in a room like this it's nearly impossible, but it's like a sandwich of fiberglass. It meets ener~3 codes and is a very soft kind of light. ~uch softer than say, would even come through a light like this~ comes into the room. And very little light, I would say a glOW, spills out to the building at night if the lights happen to be on. This, quite frankly, is mainly a daytime kind of activity, wine tasting. In fact, I think it closes at the end of the afternoon. There is a Self--guided tour, and sometimes a guided tour so that people can be e~ucated about how wine ~s made, which really doesn't concern us ~ere because that mainly has to do with what happens on the in-- side of the building. But we recognize that something needed to be done with the existing buildings. Mainly due to budget reasons, but we really had a very simple approach again. We have painted'the buildings, and all the materials that we are using on this project are on this board. We are painting the existing buildings -- I think you've all been by there, it's now a bright ochre yellow kind of building - we're using- these middle range earth colors. We are proposing that in order to enhance the courtyard pect that's created by the new building and the existing buildings, we are putting a trellis like structure on the inside face of the existing build~- ings and growing vines on them. I know that there have been some earlier discussions concerning this project, and we have received some preliminary questions and we've certainly tried to be thoughtful about them. Southold To~nPlanning Board 10 January 10, 1994 One of thom that has come up is should we, on the east side of the build-- ing, consider some further way to mask the building, is probably the wrong word, but mitigate some of the plainness of the building. So we're suggesting that we take the theme thatwe're using on the inside and con-- tinue vine growing structures on the east side of ~.he building as well as some additional planting on this circle, so that we can soften the exist-- look of the building, from people coming from the east. We are adding- some additional trees, since people are here mainly in the summer and this is the south sun, in order to provide some shade in the courtyard. If you've been to some of the other wineries, people sort of hang around for awhile and decide where they want to go next, and we ~anted to create a kind of shady aspect. On the the building.then, we have the four south corners that are really storage rooms -~ it's hard to show thom on these _boards -- I don't }~now if you've all seen thom, but this is the floor plan. (CHA~NGE TAPE) These are the four corners (so everyone can see) of the big wine tasting room. And the infill between the four corners is this trsms-- lucent kind of material that, as I say, meets the ener~-~y code. We have a wood burning stove, a fireplace in here, so you get a sense of ~armth in the winter, because they're hoping people will come year round, not just in the surm~r. There is a wine tasting bar and wash up sink behind. The floor is simply scored concrete. I've mentioned that the wood structure is held up by exposed wood beams. The materials used then, the only one I haven't mentioned is that we are using - I hate to use the term concrete block, people have preconceived ideas about concrete block and they're usually (inaudible) to the material when they see t~hat side of it. We're proposing a concrete block that where we've used it in other locations people have sometimes, in fact, chosen it over say using brick or granite. It's a kind of granite like material. It's very informal. It's made up of crushed stone ~nd have a very kind of natural look to it. It comes in a number of a variety of different colors. We chose mainly sort of greys~ beiges, off whites, browns and~ as I say, this is a full scale sample of it. We're proposing a standing- seam metal roof, not unlike many of the kind of roofs you see on local barns, or mere modern barns, and it ~ould be a kind of grey/blue that you see on this beard here. There is some stone work to, rd the base of the building 'that is illustrated by this s~mple here, which ~s just another of the earth colors that one can see in the block. The paving m~terial on the outside is, again, a kind of paving brick in the natural color, and several natural colors of bro%~ and grey. It is ~n a pattern to break dow~ the overall scale. The size of the court yard is about 40 or 50 by 50, maybe about as long- as this room s~uare. On the outside'of the building we have a handicap and public pa~fing across the front of the building, which is easily seen when you first drive in off the North Road. We have two spaces for handicap parking. We've kept them away from the building in the spirit of the way, for instance, super-- markets and so forth have planned, so that fire trucks can get right up to the building. Our handicap spaces are the same distance from the entrance to the building, as say the entrance to King Kullen, or whatever. There's a drive in front and then the next two spaces are for handicap parking. We have designed our o%aa lighting standards on the east side of the building. ~aey are, as you can see, and if you take a look at the detail in our drawings, are about as high as I am and all of the light shines down on the ground and not out, so they create a kind of pool of lighZ for additional parking. Southo!d Town Planning Board l]. January 10, 1994 We didn't want to put all the parking out on the public side of ing and take out more of the vine area, so we have additional pas the side. It's not unlike going to the theatre or a restaurant ting a seat back next to the kitchen, we didn't T¢~nt to make it you were having to go park off in the back. This is supposed to derful experience, and it is. So we've added some additional and I'll have to admit, it w~s part of our effort putting the lit here and this - we don't want to call this a sign, so we would ii keep it at a maximum height, I believe which is 26 feet, so it wc he build-~ king on nd get-- eem like be a won- ht here, hting ~e to uld take any sign identification on. The requirements for one sign - we'd like to have one sign out next to the North Road, which is the sign that is presen-- tly located there. But, we've located this garden structure, and the light lng to the east in order to help mitigate some of the sort of boring ities of the existing building. But~ as I say, we are now sugges~ing~ we didn't show it in this model, but one of the ideas I know that several of the people on the Board have suggested is that something needs robe done about this building in terms of what you see from the e~st direction, and with additional planting along the circle and additional v~ne growing structures along the east side, I think that should do it. I know a co~nent has been raised concerning the low flat roof structure. Drew and I spent alot of time thinking about what approach we should take, given the budget and just the expense of building the tasting room. We finally decided that nothing further, at least on the top surface of this low building, should be done. The changes should occur from eye view of how you see the building either from a car or as a pedestrian. That if this building received any more emphasis, the ove~rall whole, the sort partate, the three part whole of this would be lessened. So it w scious effort on our part to have a back drop, not unlike a stage taller building. Everything else below, and accentuate where the actually tasted the wine. I think I've covered most things here. whole plan, when these two boards are together you see the whole color. There are some illustrative sketches, which I could bring closer, if you'd like to pass them around, or if you'd like to se, They give some sense of what it's like to sort of ~alk in. We're prepared to discuss it or answer questions. Mr. Ward: You have the two memorandums that were for%rarded by Mr It may be of interest at this point to maybe go through it point We tried to be succinct and at least to the point in the comments did have. If you could go through and give your responses to tho~ would be helpful -- some of which you've covered I know. )f tri.- ~s a con-- of the people The ~hing in up _~ them. certainly Kassner. )y point. that we ~e, it Donald Curry: Do you want me to read the point, and then make wh~ remarks. ;ever Mr. Ward: I think that would get us on track as to how you're re it anyway. Donald Curry: The first point is the construction materials, ie. glass block and corrugated fiberglass that are proposed for the new bull.ding structures are not in keeping with other farm buildings in the area and ~onding to Southold To~.a~ _Planning Board 12 January 10, 1994 the materials used in all other wineries on the North Fork. Well, in some ways I believe I have answered that° I think there is a general look to the wineries here, although it isn't a consistent one, and the Bidwe!ls weren't interested in slavishly copying any other of the buildings and couldn't have any ~cay -- some of them. But I think that even though this is a concrete block it has a kind of natural quality to it and we felt that our use of materials were maybe somewhat new, but acceptable, and were contextural in the sense of how they'd work on the North Fork. We're not using glass bloc!c. Mr. Ward: One of the unfortunate things that has happened with this project, unfortunate that it's reached this stage in a sense, but what's unfortunate is that like most projects, there is usually a pre--submission conference where all the ideas and concepts are thrown out before the final plans are done, and it's really something in this particular project that wasn't done. We normally don't see final plans, and this is what it is, and we're reacting to final plans. It's possible that before the paint dry, if we reacted to very preliminary concepts, we could-come to a middle ground on some of these things without, as the applicant would say, we are penalizing them because we are holding up the project. Donald Curry: I appreciate that. Mr. Ward: It"s difficult for us, on the otb.er hand. We're making reac-- tions to things that we see in a final product, and I just want to preface what %~'re saying hereby that. It puts us in a position of reacting to something that -- I realize that you still have Health Dept. and other things to go, but really, if you've got to change plans at this point it means that you've got some doing to do. Jim Bidwell: May I interject for a second there. Changing plans at this point may seem, to the members of the Board, as a matter of choice and a simple pen stroke, if you will. To us, it may literally be the end of our winery. We didn't ..know that we were supposed to confer with the To~n be-- fore we began to design a project. We felt quite strongly, that we were going about this in the best possible ~y, going with a h~ghly regarded professional architecture firm, and setting out to put together a set of plans to invest in Southold To~, and in my opinion, add to the Town.. Some of the controversy that seems to be coming up here, if you will, it escapes me. I feel like there's a certain lac~ of real understanding of %~hat this really will be when it's finished, because it's hard to corm~unicate alot of the different ideas. If we can maybe try to go through it point by point, you'll have ~ better understanding, but I have to say that it's not just simply a matter of us saying ~el!, the To~mawon't go for this -- let's start over. We're on a very tight budget. We've got a certain number of dollars to spend here. We're about $30,000.00 into the plans that you have before you. And that is a substantial part of our entire budget. For you to say that it would have been nice if we came for%~rd -- if I had kno~ that, that's what %~e would have done. I'm not a builder. I'm not a developer. This is the first project for all of us, aside from our homes perhaps, where that was a very standardized thing. If we haven't gone about it in quite the right way, then that is our fault, and we apo!igize for that but it %~s never our intent. Southold Town Planning Board 13 January 10, 1994 And it ~as never done that ~ay to try and escape any of the formalities that ~.zould 10e normal in this kind of proceeding. And that's how we get to this point. Donald Curry: Do you wantme to continue? Mr. Ward: Yes. Donald Curry: Th.e second point is the corrugated fiberglass proposed for the new sales and tasting building will permit light to shine off the site. Ail lighting must .be shielded to the property. Well, I believe I've answered that also. I believe it does act as a kind of lantern. It's a very subtle kind of light. In fact, I don't even believe it will throw shadows. It would certainly have less an effect then say, having just clear glass. Mr. Edwards: Does it reflect light? Donald Curry: No. I'm trying to think' of anything else we're used to. That's it right here, except you'd have to see it with a light on behind it. (Everyone talking) Mr. Ward: Yeah. You had made a statement that you're not using a Cal-Wall section, that you're using a built up section. Donald Curry: We are. Mr. Ward: And you're convinced that that section will bm air and water tigbZ and you're not going to get mold into it. It's a built ~p section? Donald Curry: Absolutely. Mr. Ward: O.K. DrewRenter: The insulation that's used on the interior is exactly the same insulation used in the catalogs. Donald Curry: I admit these are catalog photographs for Cal Wall, but the effect is essentially the same. There are photographs t[~ere that go from the interior to the ~xterior. Should I go on to the next point? Donald Curry: The third point is To%~ Code 100-205B permits a maximum height Of ground signs of 15 feet. Your ground sign, however, is 20'6" high. We never thought of this, q~ite frsmk!y, as a sign. In fact it ~s only at the last minute that we (inaudible) an opportmnity to put very small letters that said Bidwell. So it was no~ an important issue in re- gards to the development of the site. We will remove anything from the structure that makes it seem like a sig~ and therefore the one s~gn, I believe it's located right here, would remain and I believe that meets whatever issues.there are. Southold Town Plannlng Board 14 January 10g 1994 The ne~ point is only one free standing ground sign permitted for each frontage of property on a public street. Your plan shows 'two ground signs. Well at this point we would have one. ~ae next point is the in- ternally lighted entry pylons and sign tower must be shielded to the property. Well, I've answered that again in the current sense, cer- tainly¢ of the four light standards that one drives between. Because the hood that you see here, are on top and the light actually goes up to that hood and then creates a kind of glow over the ground, not unlike some people have along' their entrlg~ay, so that it doesn't flash into your eyes but just over the area where you're %~alking. Now there is no light- ing that we have that is glaring, let's put it that ~y. Mr. Ward: What kind of lighting is proposed for the main tower? Donald Curry: That is lighting that is built into the inside of it. Again, it's mostly like a lantern. Light will go up and bounce off the wood structure of it and just have ~ kind of glow to it. It's not meant to be site lighting. In this case, it's just meant to be a kind of land mark on the site. The n~m~ point is a convection oven and steamer are showed on the plan. Is food to be prepared and served in tb~ retail pavilion? I believe, in fact~ our drawings shew it as a future element to the plan. It is not to be included here, and that %~s within the spirit of simply preparing for the future, in case it's possible to prepare food here in the future and permission ~s given for that us~, then that will occur~ But in fact, it is not going to be included in the initial con- struction of the building. The n~ext point is the new~vJvilion building intrudes into the parking area. The building shouldbe rotated'to keep a clean site line. Factually, we feel that the building is well back from any parking area. It's no closer - in fact I measured it - it's no closer than for instance the site of the Pellegrini's to where they drive to get into their cars. That ~.~sn't our initial thinking. It is ~ell back into the site - but the initial thi~<ing was that the building- ought to be turn- ed, in part %o keep an informal aspect, and quite frankly, once you're dragon into the court space, we ~anted it to feel very inviting to pull people into the interior space. So you can imagine if you turn it, it doesn't seem quite as welcome. Mr. Ward: I don't think the turnings the problem. I thinz if you moved it back just a little bit you could get out of that site line of the drive-- way. Donald Curry: Well maybe I misunderstand it. Mr. Ward: Yeah, well I thin]< maybe Bob didm't express is exactly right. Donald Curry: You mean along this edge? Mr. Ward: Yeah. Right now, a car forced in there it's kind of got to come around the building. Southold Town Planning Board 15 January 10, 1994 Donald Curry: Well, in fact this part of this isn't necessafT. Then I think it would be best, rather than move this~ because we like the pro-h portions that we have, is simply to move this curve line out so there's a greaterdistance between the automobiles and the building. Mr. Ward: That w~s that con~nent. Donald Curry: OK, fine. The last item on this December 2!st letter is grade and drainage details are missing for courtyard development. Mr. Ward: There's no indication there as to what's happening. Your arch-- itectura! plans are quite detailed - your site plans aren't. Right now there's no indication where storm water is going. Right now your model shows a curb line, in a sense a difference between a parking area and your terrace. There's just alot of detail that's realty missing in the site plan. Donald Curry: OK. Ess-~_ntially, it's all flat~ and will not provide say any handicap problem. I don't know what portion of it is'gravel. I'd say overall it's over 5~g. Over 5~g of it is gravel and I don't forsee a water problem. There's drainage along the edge of the existing b~ilding already. Mr~ Ward: The particular courtyard doesn't indicate how drainage is being handled, nor does it really give any particular grades of any consequence to show how you're pitching away from buildings and how you're taking care of it. Donald Curry: Well, that's an o~mrsi~ht, and we seem to show what the grading is 6here. Drew Renter: But we don't intend any additional. The sto~lnrunoff from the roof of the building is going into the dry%!ell. ?h.e runoff from the courtyard, we e~pect to just fall into the gravel a~d seep into the ground. Mr. Ward: Well, you'd have to show the drainage calcs for that. Drew Renter: Right. Donald Ourry: Now, there's a second letter dated December 23rd with seven more items on it. Would you like me to read those and answer those? Mr. Ward: Yes, please. Donald Ourry: The first item is relocate .handicap pa~fing spaces next to new pavilion. We can do that, with our sense that, as I said earlier, that the two spaces closest to the entry, if marked, would be most appro-- priate in terms of fire truck access, but we could renovate our plan in this area maybe, and get them up. Southold Town Planning Board 16 January t0, 1994 Mr. Ward: I guess our question really comes down to is that if you're providing the handicap spaces, is is going to be totally paved from the space to your access to your buildings, because that's whats going to be necessary. You're not going to be able to go on gravel to get to it. That's our concern. Donald Curry: Oh, I see. Th_at's the reason. M~. Ward: You take the ADA requirements today, we're golng to require that you have accessibility completely to the buildings. It's a concern. You can review it and address it the best way you feel it should be addressed. Donald Curry: The second item is existing block building should have a peak roof in keeping with existing and proposed buildings. Again, I feel that I've done the best I can to answer why we haven't left the building as it is. We are doing quite a bit to it in terms of -- we're putting a stucco on the building as well as using one of the colors I've just ill- ustrated on this board. And on both the west and east sides we are pro-- posing trellis iike structures with vines and so forth. Mr. Ward: So you're saying the opposite hand would look the same as the interior court? Donald Curry: Yes. I actually think that since tm're now proposing that trees follow this arc, that we should divide the building up into thirds and put this structure, say here at the end, in the middle or maybe it will be in quarters, and not run it the full length, and change the rhythm of the side of the building, rather than cover it. I believe there's some ~xisting doors there, we're proposing, that are not needed in the future development, so they would be closed off, so I thi~k that facade would .be more attractive, when we're finished. The transformer should be screened. I don't think that's ~n issue. The forth item is additional landscaping should be provided on the east side of the building, and that's what I've just described. Fifth, color of concrete apron should be shown. Mr. Ward: I'm not sure what that means. Donald Curry: The sixth item is that handicapped ramps must be sho%~ for all buildings, but I believe that it does meet ADA. It is all flat. If there's a situation there I'mnot a~care of, we'll look at it, but I be-- lieve we're not posing any problem. Mr. Ward: Well, just if you're going to have a tour through the buildings, you're not going to be able to have a step at the building. Donald Cur~f: ?here are no steps. Mr. Ward: Southold Town Planning Board 17 January 10, 1994 Donald Curry: And seven, the last item, is grade difference must be shown between sidewalk and parking area, and we'll put those marks on the draw-- int. And that's the last of the items in the two letters. Bob Bayley: You might want to discuss the last item on there. It's after the last number, the phases. Donald Curry: Oh. The drawings show phase A and phase B. Do you plan to accomplish the construction in phases? Drew Renter: The phases were indicated because of the budget constraints. We didn't know how much of this area of the site work we were going to be able to afford at this point. We were going to start with pricing, and then sort of as we get into this, find out. So, although it is their in-- tention to do all of this at once, we had to leave ourselves an out, if they couldn't afford to do everything. Jim Bidwell: It was primarily to get the ability for when we put it out to bid to break down the bid. That's the primary reason for the phasing. We intend to build the entire project in one phase. Donald Curry: So that's in construction terms, it leaves an alternate. It allows the owner to identify @ certain area with a price in case they can-- not afford to build the whole project at once. But I was in fact talking within the spirit of the fact that there was only a phase A, and I believe that's what the Bidwells have in mind. Mr. Ward: OK. I think you've addressed the questions at least that we had here tonight. How are you doing with your permits at this point? Where do you stand on Health, DOT and everything else? Bob Bayley: What has happened to date is that, as you may know, the client has been through the process with the Board of Appeals, and the Board of Appeals is waiting for the results of your group for them to make their final determination. Essentially, they said that they will grant the special exception to operate the winery here, provided that the Planning Board approves the site plan. With regard to the other two outside agencies, we're waiting to hear from the County on the curb cut, so they know there's a project, and we haven't heard from them yet. The Health Dept. has not been applied for. It will be. Frankly, we were waiting to see that the site plan was basically acceptable, as is, with regard to the configuration and location of the buildings. Then we will go to the County on that. I believe if Robert Kassner was here, he could talk about this a little bit more. There was a previous submission when the Bidwells were planning to formalize their existing properties, and they had a site plan and I believe that was essentially approved, so we don't anticipate a de-- lay on the m~tter of the sanitary. But, that will be undertaken in~nedia-- rely. Are there any that I've left out. I don't think so. Mr. McDonald: Do we have a SEQR determination, does anybody know? Southold Town Planning Board 18 January 10, 199~ Melissa Spiro: On this pro3ect, I don't think so. Mr. McDonald: I don't think we have a SEQR, so obviously until you get a SEQR determination from us, you can't go to the health. You can make the application, but they can't proceed. They won't act on it. But get your paperwork together, and we'll try to get the SEQR together. Bob Bayley: OK. When talking to Bob Kassner about the environmental im-- pact portion of the project, essentially we're waiting to hear from you and from Robert, and I haven't heard, so. Mr. McDonald: We're w~iting to get, what's in our minds, the completed plans. Bob Bayley: Whatever you determine, we'll pursue. Mr. Ward: Any other questions from the Board at this point? OK, well we appreciate your submission and time and we'll certainly try and keep the project going. Donald Curry: Fine, I hope so. Thank you. Mr. Ward: Is this the very first time your using a fiberglass with the insul-- ation on your own, rather than Cai--wall. Donald Curry: Yes, it is. Mr. McDonald: There's not another building similar to this any place? Donald Curry: Not that I know of. Mr. Ward: We're going to be it, huh? Mr. Edwards: Donald Curry: New York City. You've got to start somewhere. Mr. Ward: Is there anybody, before we close the meeting tonight, who would like to address the Board. We will be going into a work session following this meeting. Mr. O'Connell: I'm here from the Southold Indian Museum. I couldn't really quite hear what happened as far as the Baxter situation is concern-- ed. DO I understand that you are putting off consideration of that to a later date? Mr McDonald: No, we issued a Positive Declaration on the environmental impact statement, which means he must prepare a Draft Environmental Impact Statement on this site. So we're going to bring all the issues up in this environmental review. Everything's got to be gone through, environmentally. Mr. O'Connell: And that's at a later time? Southotd Town Planning Board 19 January 10, 1994 Mr. McDonald: The process begins now, and we'll hold a Scoping Session where we'll outline all the items which he must address in this statement. Mr. O'Connell: Does that mean that you're going to be working on it or talking about it tonight? Mr. McDonald: No. Melissa Spiro: You say you're from the Soutbold Indian Museum? Mr. O'Connell: Yes. Melissa Spiro: In writing up the letter for the Planning Board, we are sending a copy of what we did tonight to you, so you should get that in the mail. It's addressed to Walter Smith. Mr. Ward: The attorney for the applicant would like to say something. Charles Cuddy: Mr. O'Connell, I'm Charles Cuddy, we've talked on the phone. W~at I was going to as]< the Board, and just so that you're aware of it, is that perhaps that at the end of this month or the beginning of next month we could set up the Scoping Session, so you would be a~are, that's a time when you might~ant to come back, because we're going to try and narrow some of the issues that we're going to address. And we'll have people here to discuss the various issues. If we could maybe possibly schedule that for the 31st, or the following week, that would behelpful, but that's up to the Board. Melissa Spiro: I've been sending a letter to the Indian Museum, letting them know, and the letter that is going out tomorrow tells them that we're going to send them a letter when the Scoping Session is scheduled, so I don't want to leave anyone out. Mr. O'Connell: Unless there be any misunderstanding, the interest of the museum is simply to preserve, as a historical and archeological place, the immediate area where the fort was. Which I understand, the fort itself was about 3/4 of an acre. And an area around that 3/4 of an acre would be adequate for future parking, if you needed parking, to make that something our area would be proud of and would be something that really is one of the few historical and archeological places left in this whole area. So, t~hat's our sole interest. We're not trying to suggest any way to place houses or anything else. We simply want that preserved and the other thing that would go with it is ~ means of access to it from either New Suffolk Rd. or Main Rd. or both. You would need that in order to ever have the fort area it-- self useful. That is the sole interest of the museum. So if you understand that, maybe you'll understand why we have an interest in it. It would a little bit more, maybe 5 or 6 acres surrounding the area where the fort was located. And the fort can be located physically on the property to do what we think someday might be needed to do. Thank you very much for letting me talk. Southold Town Planning Board 20 January 10, ].994 Mr. Ward: Thank you. Before we close tonight and go to our work session would anybody else like to address the Board? If not, all is in order for a motion. Mr. Smith: So moved. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Ward: To adjourn, motion seconded. All in favor? Ayes: Mr. McDonald, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Latham, Mr. Smith, Mr. Ward 'Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Being no further business to come before t%e Board, the meeting was journed at 8:40 P.M. Respectfully submitted, Richard G. Ward, Chairman Martha Jones, Secretary Tovrn C1erk~ To~rn o~ Soutlio!a' I