HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-07/08/1996PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
RICHARD G. WARD
Chairman
GEORGE RITCI-I/E LATHAM, JR.
BENNETT ORLOWSKI, JR.
WILLIAM J. CREMERS
KENNETH L. EDWARDS
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
JULY 8, 1996
Present were:
Richard O. Ward, Chairman
Bennett Orlowski, Jr.
G. Ritchie Latham
Kenneth Edwards
William Cremers
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Robert G Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer
Mr. Ward: Good evening. I'd like to call the Southold Town Planning Board
meeting of July 8, 1996 to order. The first order of business is the setting of
the next Planning Board meeting. Board to set Monday, July 29, 1996 at
7:00 p.m. at the Southold Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, as the time and
place for the next regular Planning Board meeting.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Ward: Moved and seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARINGS:
Mr. Ward: 7:00 p.m. Elilah Lane Estates - Sec. 2 & 3 - This proposed major
subdivision is for a total of 27 lots on 38.56 acres. Nineteen lots are
proposed in Section 2 and eight lots are proposed in Section 3.
SCTM# 1000-108-4-7.1. I see the applicant is here, Mr. Aliperti, if you wish to
address the Board.
$outhold Town Planning Board
2 July 8, 1996
Anthony Aliperti: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, my name is Anthony
Aliperti, Rocky Point, NY. I'm here to answer any questions on behalf of
Elijah Lane Estates, Section 2 & 3.
Mr. Ward: Is there anybody here this evening that would like to address the
Board regarding this subdivision. If not, are there any comments from the
Board? If noT, all is in order to close the hearing.
Mr. Cremers: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Ward: Moved and seconded. Al in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremer$, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried What's the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Chairman I'd like to make a motion that whereas
Buovodantona Aliperti is the owner of the property known and designated as
SCTM# 1000-108-4-7.1, located on the west side of Rachel's Road, Tabor
Road and Rebeka's Road off of Elijah's Lane in Mattituck; and
Whereas, this proposed subdivision is for Sections 2 & 3 of the Elijah's Lane
Estates subdivision; and
Whereas, Section 2 is located in the Agricultural-Conservation Zoning District,
but is grandfathered to the R-40 Zoning District, and is for 19 lots on 20.345
acres; and
Whereas, Section 3 is located in the Agricultural-Conservation Zoning District
and is designed as a clustered subdivision, and is for 8 lots on 18.21 acres;
and
Whereas, the Planning Board granted, conditional final approval to the Elijah's
Lane Estates subdivision, Section 2 on August 19, 1989, and Section 3 on
November 20, 1989, but the conditional approvals expired because the
conditions of approva were not fulfilled within the required time frame; and
Whereas, in October 1994, the applicant submitted the information required
by the Planning Board to schedule another final hearing for the proposed
subdivision; and
Southold Town Planning Board
$ Julv 8, 1996
Whereas, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself lead
agency and issued a Negative Declaration on January 9, 1995; and
Whereas, the Health Department has granted approval to [he subdivision
with a condition of approval that the Declarant agrees that there shall be no
construction on Lots 5, 6 13, 14, 24 and 27 of Sections 2 and 3, and that said
lots shall remain open space until such time as individual on-site wells comply
with the Private Water Systems Standards of the Department or the subject
lot ~s connected to an approved public wa[er supply; and
Whereas, the Planning Board has required the filing of a Declaration of
Covenants and Restrictions pertaining to the subdivision, and such
Declaration mus[ be filed in the County Clerk's Office prior to any
endorsement of the subdivision; and
Whereas, the area outside of the building envelope on Lot Number 4 of
Section 3, ~as been designated as Open Space Conservation Easement, and
the terms for this easement area are included in the Declaration of
Covenants and Restrictions; and
Whereas, the 50 foot wide area located on the north side of the property
parallel to the Long Island Railroad property has been offered for dedication
to the Town for use as a future road or as a future recreational trail, and
such offer will be recorded in the County Clerk's Office prior to any
endorsement of the subdivision; and
Whereas, it nas been determined that the Town's park and playground
requirement was satisfied for the Elijah's Lane Estates Subdivision, Sections
1, 2 and 3, at the time Section I was approved; and
Whereas, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58, Notice
of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has complied
with the notification provisions; and
Whereas, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at
Town Hall, Southold, New York, on July 8, 1996; and
Whereas, upon fulfillment of the conditions of approval, all requirements of
the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold will have been met; be
it therefore
Resolved, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final
Southold Town Planning Board 4 July8, 1996
approval on the surveys dated March '1996, for Sections 2 and 3, subject to
fulfillment of the following conditions within six (6) months of the date of
this resolution:
Five (5) paper prints and two (2) mylars of the fina maps of each
section must be submitted. Al maps must contain the following:
a)
The portion of Rachael's Road which has been dedicated to the
Town must be indicated. The boundaries of the area shown on
the current map as being dedicated to the Town are not
correct.
b) A valid stamp of Health Department approval.
c)
A notation that a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions was
filed pertaining to the subdivision as required by the Planning
Board. The Liber and Page number of the recorded document
must be included with this notation.
The draft Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions which was
received by the Planning Board on June 18, 1996, has been approved
by the Planning Board. The Declaration must be filed in the County
Clerk's Office and a copy of the recorded Declaration must be
submitted to this office. The Iiber and page number of the recorded
document must.be noted on the final surveys.
The Performance Guarantee in the amount of S248,675.00 must be
submitted to the Planning Board and accepted by the Planning Board
and Town Board or, the ~mprovements contained in the bond estimate
must be completed prior to any endorsement of the final map. An
adm nistration fee was submitted at the time the original performance
guarantee was submitted to the Town.
The pavement radius for the cul-de-sac located within Section 3 is
shown as being thirty-nine (39) feet. As per Section AI06-33 (G) of
the Subdivision Regulations, he pavement radius must be forty-four
(44) feet, curb to curb.
As described in the "Terms for Offer of Dedication of Portion of
Rachel's Road" dated March 3, 1994, final improvements within the
portion of Rachel's Road which was dedicated to the Town of
Southold, must be made 13y Buovondantona Aliperti, or his successor
Southold Town Planning Board
5 July 8, 1996
in interest, at such time as the road improvements for the subdivision
are installed. Al improvements shall meet the minimum requirements
established in the Highway Specifications.
The Homeowners Association must be incorporated, and verification
of the incorporation must be submitted to the Planning Board office
prior to any endorsement of the final subdivision.
The Homeowner's Association wil not be required if the 40,000 dollar
assessed value per mile of road and all other requirements necessary
to offer the roads for dedication to the Town are met, the road ~s
offered for dedication to the Town and the Superintendent of
Highways and the Town Board accept the offer.
The deed for Lot 4 in Section 3 must be revised to state: "Subject to
an open space conservation easement, the terms of which are des-
cribed in the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions for the
subdivision." The Iiber and page number of the recorded
Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions must be included with the
statement. The deed must be recorded simultaneously With the final
subdivision map in the County Clerk's Office.
The Offer of Dedication for the 50 foot wide right-of-way located ad-
jacent to the Long Island Railroad must be recorded in the County
Clerk's Office and an original copy of the recorded document must be
submitted to the Planning Board for filing with the Town Clerk.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
HEARINGS HELD OVER FROM PREVIOUS MEETINGS:
Mr. Ward: Summit Estates - Sec. 2 & 3 - Sections 2 & 3 of this major
subdivision are for 25 lots on 23 acres located on the southwest
corner of Main Rd. (NYS Rt. 25) and Shipyard Lane in East Marion.
SCTM# 1000-35-8- 5.3. All is in order to close the hearing if there are no
Southold Town Planning
6 July 8, 1996
comments. Anybody here that would have any comments on this particular
subdivision? If not, all is in order to close the hearing. Is there a second.
Mr. Latham: Second,
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried What's the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution. WHEREAS, the
Planning Board granted conditional preliminary approval to the Summit
Estates subdivision Sections I, 2 and 3 on February 25, t991; and
WHEREAS, the conditions for Section I were fulfilled and Section I was
approved on October 4, 1993; and
WHEREAS, the conditional preliminary approval for Sections 2 and 3 expired
because the conditions of approval were not fulfilled within the required
time frame; and
WHEREAS, on May 17, 1996, the applicant submitted the information
required by the Planning Board to schedule another preliminary ~earing for
the proposed subdivision Sections 2 and 3; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58,
Notice of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has
complied with the notification provisions; and
WHEREAS, the preliminary public hearing was closed on said subdivision
application on July, 8, 1996; be it therefore
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant preliminary approval
on the maps dated March 1t, 1992 for the major subdivision of Summit
Estates, Sections 2 and 3
Mr. Latham: Second the motion.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Southold Town Planning
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
7 July 8, '1996
Mr. Ward: O'Kula - This minor subdivision is for 2 lots on 16.5116 acres,
located on Indian Neck Rd. in Peconic. SCTM# 1000-98-I-1.4
& 1.5 Is the applicant or agent for the applicant here that would like to
address the Board?
Henry Raynor: First of all, I think everything has been addressed at the prior
meeting before this If you have any questions I'd be happy to address them
at this time.
Mr. Ward: Is there anybody here that would like to address the Board
regarding this application?
Frank Kull: border these two pieces of property that are supposed to be
subdivided, and I'd like to ask a bunch of questions. When I got this notice
last month it stated for two subd'visions. Now Mr. Kassner says at the last
meeting it's only one lot now subdivided, which I don't understand because
that piece of property was cut out of the farm before subdivision was even
done. And it doesn't have the proper footage so it's going to be another
subdivision, I understand. And according to the letter I got it's S2000 for a
subdivision. So if there's two subdivisions, it's supposed to be S4000. Only
S2000 was paid as of last week when I went through the records.
And how did (inaudible) without subdivision first? Another question. Then
how does this piece of land that's the topic of discussion of the subdivision
that impacts, both Mr. Kassner and the Town Attorney Laury Dowd both said
that this shouldn't happen without a subdivison before you've got a tax
number. We stated at the last meeting, it was addressed that the well was
moved I understand that if the well was moved there should be a new
survey. I don't see a new survey in the record.
The way I heard, through the grapevine from the well driller, is they went
down 60 feet for water. For good water because the water didn't pass
before. The irrigation well that I used to pump out of was only 32 feet
down A brand new well was put in and if you go a little further you hit salt
water so I don't understand how the water passed there also, It's hard to
get any information from the well drillers which I had to go around a few
people and find out the little bit that I did. I can't see how this subdivision
can go through with all these ends left open. Thankyou.
Southold Town Planning 8 July 8, '1996
Mr. Ward: Anybody else like to address the Board regarding this subdivision?
Bob would you like to respond to any of this?
Robert Kassner: In responding to your question Mr. Kull, the subdivision does
have Health Department approval, that's number one. Number two, as far
as the size of the ct, this is a clustered subdivision. And even though the lot
is not 80,000 square feet, when the larger lot is subdivided, the difference
between this lot and the 80,000 wil have to be taken out of that lot as part
of the yield. This is the whole concept of a clustered subdivision. As far as
your comments at the last public meeting, they were sent to our Town
Attorney who reviewed them thoroughly and advised us there is no reason
why we shouldn't proceed to close this hearing and give conditional final
approval.
Mr. Ward: If there are no further comments, what is the pleasure of the
Board?
Mr. Latham: I offer this resolution. Whereas Mary Kull is the owner of
SCTM# 1000-98-1-1.5 and Lisa O'Kula is the owner of SCTM# 1000-98-I-1.4,
located off Indian Neck Road in Peconic; and
Whereas, this minor subdivision if for 2 lots on 16.5116 acres; and
Whereas, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State
Envi"onmenta Quality Review Act (Article 8) Part 617, declared itself lead
agency and issued a Negative Declaration on June 13, 1995; and
Whereas, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at
Town Hall, Southold, New York, on July 8, 1996; and
Whereas, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of
Southold I~ave been met; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Plann ng Board grant conditional final
approval on the surveys dated May I, 1996 and authorize ~he Chairman to
endorse the final surveys subject to fulfillment of the following conditions.
These conditions must be met within six (6) months of the date of this
resolution:
1. A corrected map showing both owners, and correct tax map number.
2. Five (5) paper prints and two (2) mylars of the final maps, all containing a
valid stamp of Health Department approval.
Southold Town Planning
:5. A covenant and restriction as follows:
9 July 8, '1996
The declarant covenants that in consideration of the approval of a
70,010 square foot clustered lot containing 15,149 square feet of
wetlands, all future determinations of yield on the larger 14.9044 acre
lot shal be based on a lot size calculated at 14.9044 acre lot shall be
based on a lot size calculated at 14.9044 minus 25,139 square feet.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Al in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowsld, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: Robert & Christ8 Brown - This site plan is for the construction of
an 1800 sq. ft. office building located on Rt. 25 in Greenport. SCTM# 1000-
45-4-6.1. I'd ike to offer this resolution. Be it resolved that the Southold
Town Planning Board keep the hearing held open until the next public
meeting on July 29, 1996, pending receipt of Trustee and curb cut permits.
Mr. Cremers: Second
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Al in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS
Final Extensions:
Mr. Ward: Cove Beach - This major subdivision is for 34 lots on 98.27 acres
located on the north side of Main Road; 1776 feet east of Stars Road in East
Marion. SCTM# 1000-22-3-15.~ & 18.3. What's the pleasure of the Board?
Southold Town Planning 10
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution.
July 8, 1996
Be it resolved.
that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a three month extension of
conditional final approval from July 10, 1996 to October 10, 1996.
Mr. Latham: Second
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion Carried
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT UNE CHANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT
Draft Environmental Impact Status:
Mr. Ward: Indian Shores - This major subdivision is for 17 lots on 105.6 acres
located on the south side of Main Rd., and the north side of Ne w Suffolk
Ave., in Cutchogue. The 37.47 acre 17th lot is proposed to be sold to the
Town as a Town Park. SCTM# I000-116-1-3. What's the pleasure of the
Board?
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution. Be it resolved that
the Southold Town Planning Board deem the revised Draft Environmental Impact
Statement dated June 1996 ncomplete wit n respe~ to its scope, content and
adequacy for the purpose of commencing public review.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Al in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carded
SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT
Lead Agency Coordination:
Southold Town Planning
July 8, 1996
Mr. Ward: Cross Sound Ferry - This site plan is to add additional parking to a
previously approved ferry terminal on Rt. 25 in Orient. SCTM# 1000-15-I0.I,
11.1, 15.1 & 3.5 I notice there are a few folks here in the audience tonight.
We thank you for coming. I assume at this time that some of you may wish
to address the Board on this particular issue. Just before we do so, let me
just explain where we're at in the process. The Zon ng Board of Appeals
currently has before them an application from the Cross Sound Ferry to
utilize an existing residential parcel of property to the east of the ferry
terminal, specifically east of the snack bar area, for use as parking for their
facility. That particular application is in a separate Board. It's not in the
Planning Board's jurisdiction to make a decision on that as to whether or not
that will be allowed to be used. That will be a Zoning Board decision.
What's before us simultaneously, which is required and allowed by Town Law,
is the fact that there be a coordinated review between the Zoning Board of
Appeals and the Planning Board looking at one total environmental
coordinated review. Tonight what we have before us as the Planning Board
is the start of that process. We may tonight look to act upon starting the
process which would put Cross Sound Ferry, the Town, and all interested
parties in the environmental process. That's what would be accomplished.
What has happened, they have submitted a site plan to Poth the Zoning
Board of Appeals and to the Town Planning Board, to us, which would be
further (inaudible) looking at the overall project. Whether that site plan as
shown actually happens will be up to a number of things that could happen.
If the Zoning Board gives approval to their application to utilize that
residential property then what's being progressed here in a review, then we
would be looking at that.
Again, an alternative would be if they don't get approval from the Zoning
Board of AppealS, the project would be looked at, less that parcel, and that
will also be part of the environmental review. That is a brief overview, and at
this point we'd certainly be open to anyone that would like to address the
Board on the issue of Cross Sound. You realize that once we do reach the
point of an' environmental process that there will be a public hearing. There
will be statements drafted by the applicant and we will all have extensive
input in that as well.
Thor Hansen: I'm the President of Southold Citizens for Safe Roads (SCSR)
which was formed almost a year ago, with one basic mission and that is to
really help the Town preserve the quality of life, in the environment, in the
safety on the roads that we believe the Town wants to have. Our
membership covers...we have over 300 people on our roster who have
Southold Town Planning
July 8, 1996
contributed money and time, or have offered to contribute such things,
showed an interest and concern, and they range from Mattituck all the way
to Orient. We aren't just Orient and East Marion.
Why are we particularly concerned right now? We're concerned about any
threat to the environment and the quality of life. Right now it seems to us
that the main threat posed to that is that of this inexorable growth of traffic
from the Cross Sound Ferry. It's essentially triplec~ since 1984, essentially
doubled since 1991. It was kind of linear at that point. We would feel that
since the Foxwoods Casino and particularly the high speed ferry of last
summer (inaudible) it to go up geometrically. And anybody that has to use
that North Road, get on or off of it, go out to the State Park, go catch the
ferry, can see what it's like going out there at night with that sea of lights
coming at you, depending on when it's happening, can say there is a big
growth in traffic. That's the first concern
The second concern, we believe that the Town, particularly this last year but
over 10 years has allowed the ferry to flaunt a lot of the Town's own
regulations and laws, more than they would allow other businesses or
property owners, and to exceed its existing 1984 site plan in various ways.
One of which for example, Rt. 25 extended as it turns. According to the site
plan as we see it is supposed to be used only for traffic going onto the ferry.
They're supposed to egress on another route according to the site plan.
That's never been enforced (Last sentence inaudible). That's one point.
Also, the so called snack bar lot was in that site plan for short term snack bar
parking. And we've all observed that cars are there for a couple or three
days. The Town has not enforced that. More recently the Town has not
objected to a lot of ongoing work. First, the dumping of dredge material on
that residential lot to which you referred and then the clearing of it and
setting it up to be a parking lot when it's still zoned residential as far as we
know, it is. You just said the ZBA has it in front of it. Those kinds of things
bring us concern because we don't believe that the Town has really been
forcing the ferry to live up to its own site plan and the Town's own laws.
Another concern is that we believe the Town is allowing the ferry to
piecemeal the actions they're doing. The ferry came in last summer to get
that west parking, 69 spaces, saying it was for overflow and for employee
parking. They got it and then very conveniently started the high speed, at
which point the Town die too as you know, and sued for an injunction to
stop it. Then the ferry comes in and has a residential lot to re-zone to take
care of the parking that the high speed ferry needs. It's piecemeal,
piecemeal and I would submit that your proposal to consider this recent site
plan by itself, I gather you're intending to add on to it from the site plan a
Southoid Town Planning
13 July 8, 1996
year ago, consider those alone is not following what SEQRA would say. That
you're supposed to consider the whole site plan. The Town has not asked
it's attorney to ask for disclosure in those court proceedings et al what the
plans of the ferry are for the future. And think it would be very hard .to
conduct a SEQRA review, our group feels it would be tough, and be able to
do it thoroughly when you don't have a clue what the ferry plans for three
years from now, five years from now, and we feel the Town should have
instructed its outside attorney and its inside attorney to ask for disclosure in
those areas.
One of the things also that concerns us is that we don't think that the Town
has looked at this problem across the agencies of the Town. The Planning
Board looks at it, the Zoning Board as you said iS looking at another aspect.
The Town Board should be looking at it The Trustees as well. We feel that
all of those should have been together at some point, and if they were we
didn't know about it, it was never a public meeting, at which they're looking
at this overall. It's a problem for the Town and not for individual agencies
and I think the ferry has been allowed therefore to play one agency off
against the other. Those are the kinds of things that cause us concern.
In addition, my final point and then I would like to ask Freddie Wachsburger,
the Vice President of SCSR, and then Eric Bressler to say a word or two, but
my final point is that we are disa0Pointed that the Town, and I think the
Planning Board, both instructed their outside attorney to object to our
motion to intervene on behalf of the Town about three months ago. We
find that very very confusing that a group of concerned citizens Who want to
help the Town would not only be welcome but have been objected to. And
in the process of that objection the Town Attorney at the hearing the judge
was holding on our motion as I understand it, the attorney for the Town said
the Town knows that the ferry has exceeded its 1984 site plan. The Town
knows that the ferry has drug it's feet putting forth a comprehensive site
plan that the judge has asked for. And the Town knows that the ferry has
exceeded work it should be doing out at that point, but the Town has no
objection That as I understand is what he said. That disturbs us, that
concerns us. Those are the points that I'd like to make and 'd like to ask
Freddie to come to the microphone. (CHANGE TAPE)
Freddie Wachsburger: i'm Vice President of SCSR. had a prepared
statement so I apologize for whatever repetitions I have in here, repeating
what Thor has said, but it's probably no bad thing. I'd also like to give this to
you after the meeting so that it would be entered in[o the record.
There's probably no more critical problem facing Southold Town than the
Southold Town Planning
14 July 8, '1996
potential explosion of ferry traffic The actions proposed by Town
government to respond appear once again to be willfully and dangerously
inadequate. But first importance is the fact that the Planning Board, as far
as we know, has not instructed it's attorney to ask the court for full
disclosure [3y Cross Sound Ferry of it's short term and long term plans. As
there is at present no other terminal to accommodate the projected
ridership to two or more casinos and to an Amtrak link to Boston from New
London That information is critical for Town government to begin long
terms plans and to determine how much ferry traffic the Orient Point
terminal and the Town roads can reasonably be expected to absorb. And
what steps can be taken to enforce limits. Until the Board exercises it's right
to demand that information it is willfully acting in the dark.
Second, the critical nature of this issue demands that the Town initiate a
unified investigation with all concerned State, County and Town agencies to
study the effect of the entire undertaking on the ecology of Orient Point and
the coast, the effect of road runoff and non-point source pollution and the
effect on the environment and the quality of life for Southold residents. Not
only to arrive at reasonable limits for Orient, but also to determine alternate
routes and terminal sites. This issue should be addressed regionally and with
representation of all interested parties
The action proposed by the Planning Board of accepting a partial submission
for review means exactly that an opposition to that approach the agencies
involved will be asked to respond to incomplete aata and the SEQRA could
be severely compromised.
Third, Southold Town government apparently lacks the will to enforce it's
zoning legislation. The stance presently taken by the Planning Board is that
there are only two options. Accept an' incomplete plan in order to move the
SEQRA forward or let Cross Sound go on refusing to produce a
comprehensive plan while continuing To operate in non-conformance and to
park cars on residential property without penalty.
The Town stance pretends that it has neither the right nor the responsibility
to simply enforce it's laws. To pursue its right in the courts to keep Cross
Sound from continuing to operate without presentation of a comprehensive
plan and for commercial use of residential property. Ultimately, the Town
appears in its denial of its ability to do anything almost willfully determined
to disregard the effects of CSS operations on the natural environment and
on our quality of life, and to put no obstacle on Cross Sound Ferry's
expansion.
Southold Town Planning
'15 Jul,/8, '1996
Another instance in which the Town hides behind a lack of real data is in the
vague notion the ferry traffic is "good for business". Certainly some
businesses, roadside restaurants, farm stands, gas stations and vineyards
may benefit to some extent from transient traffic. No serious study has
been made by Town government however, of the potential long term effect
of an explosion of traffic on overnight and long stay tourism or on the
second home market which patronizes the above businesses laut also small
businesses, banks, professionals, realtors, contractors and the service
industries in which could be fatally compromised by the potential
degradation of the quality of life in this Town.
In short, despite plenty of news reports during the course of the last year,
about the projected growth of casino and commuter traffic, and despite the
court case initiated by the Town last year, the Town has in fact taken no
steps to acquire necessary information, to develop short and long term
plans, to explore corroboration with other agencies to define limits and
alternatives or to enforce its own regulations. We urge the Planning Board
to refuse to accept a plan which is neither complete or comprehensive, to
enforce Town regulations against non-conforming uses, to instruct it's
attorney to ask the court for full disclosure from Cross Sound and to remove
its objections to SCSR entering the case. Concerned Southold citizens should
have as much right to representation as a privately owned Connecticut
company.
Eric Bressler: Of Wickham, Wickham and Bressler, P.C of Mattituck (inaudible)
counsel for Southold Citizens for Safe Roads. Gentlemen, tonight you have a
unique opportunity as well as responsibility with respect to this particular
project. You have heard most eloquently what has happened with respect
to this particular project over time. Cross Sound Ferry has piecemealed its
activities down there. They have nibbled, they have clawed, they have taken
what they could take, when they could take it, and they have basically run
circles around the Town agencies.
The dictates of the Planning Board and the Zoning Board of Appeals have
been ignored year in and year out. We know that, you know that, we've al
seen the history. They stand before you tonight asking you to go forward
with the SEQRA review of what is patently an incomplete site plan. It is time
that this Board say enough to this. You stop them Where they stand and you
make them complete for the first time, a complete and comprehensive site
plan of the entire operation at out Orient Point: Nothing short of that is
going ~o give this Board and the other agencies that have to consider this
project the full scope of what's going on down there and the full
opportunity for review.
Soul:hold Town Planning
'16 July 8, 1996
We believe that the mere stapling of a prior approved site plan together with
this would be site plan does not constitute the integrated single site plan
that is required out at Orient Point. We believe that this Board got hood-
winked if you will on the first site plan. We don't think it got looked at
thoroughly for a variety of reasons and its out there. And we think that
ought to be integrated with what's being proposed now, so you don't get
yo-yo'd back and forth and piecemealed yet again. There is no way short of
integrating this into one site plan that you can prevent that. Not
withstanding what you might hear from the representatives of Cross Sound
Ferry, it can't be done any other way. And it is this Board's responsibility to
take this project by the throat if you will and make these people comply with
the laws of the Town. No one ~s saying here tonight that Cross Sound Ferry
should be choked to death and that they shouldn't ~ave an opportunity to
do business.
This group has never taken that position and they are not taking that
position with the Board tonight. What they are saying is that the activities
have to be looked at in an integrated responsible manner and appropriate
and reasonable limits and requirements have to be placed on this project so
that the concerns of the citizens of this Town, as well as the Cross Sound
Ferry, can be accommodated.
And there's only one way to do that and that is to do an integrated site plan.
If you don't do this you are going to perpetuate the piecemeal approach and
you're going to find yourselves down the road hopefully wishing that you
had done this. Maybe you won't, maybe it doesn't matter, but I don't
believe that. I think this Board is more responsive. And I'm hopeful that this
Board wil be more responsive to the needs of the Town and its citizens. I
think what you've got to do is go back and make these people give you an
integrated site plan and then deal with it on that basis.
I don't think there's any need on my part to get into what's going on in
court, that's a seParate proceeding, it's been addressed. What you want to
do on that I think has got to be examined fairly closely. But that's not
before the Board tonight. What's before the Board tonight is something you
have direct control over and you can tell these people to come back with a
complete site plan. Now, I've been told that the Board has a concern that
it's taken a long time to get what you've gotten out of Cross Sound Ferry.
That's undoubtedly true. But if you give up now and say we're going to
accept piecemeal or only a partial site plan, we're all going to regret it down
the road. You have tools available to you to make these people comply with
the same laws that these other people who came up here on those earlier
cases had to comply with. Cross Sound Ferry should do no less. They're
Southold Town Planning
17 July 8, '1996
down there doing things and we all know what they're doing. Clearing the
lot and doing the things that they shouldn't be doing. You people have the
power. Make them come back to you with 8 complete site plan. We urge
you to require them to do that.
Harold Watson: I'm also with Southold Citizens for Safe Roads, a member.
I'm also an Orient Point resident, I'm sure the Board knows who I am in trying
to keep on top of this matter. I have been doing my reading on SEQRA this
weeK. I have all the latest regulations. And I've heard from the Town again
and again and again that you can't do anything about Cross Sound Ferry.
They're bigger than we are and everything else.
There's a couple of things that I read in here that I think are really critical
right at a time (inaudible). One of them is scoping. This comes from the
Dept. of State. They believe strongly that Southold Town is shirking its duties
because they're allowing one, segmentation to happen out at Cross Sound
Ferry. Two, that they're not doing proper scoping and proper input from all
the sources that are available to them and they admit, as far as they tel me,
that they believe that you're almost breaking the rules by not going to the
Dept. of State and finding out what's happening in this coastal zone.
It's a coastal hazard area, it's a coastal erosion area The coastal hazard area
goes all the way up to Rt. 25 covering every bit of Cross Sound property.
The coastal hazard area goes in 100 feet further than you have indicated on
your maps right now, where they have been doing fill which is not
considered to be upland, its considered to be wetland. These are tidal
wetlands no matter what it looks like now, three months ago it was
wetlands.
It also asks that common issues that are raised during scoping and
determined to be not relevant or environmentally significant or that had
been adequately addressed in all prior environmental reviews must I~e
included in that scope, I looked at the 1984 Environmental Impact
Statement which is the only legal document right now (inaudible) that you
have to control Cross Sound Ferry with and you're not even enforcing a
1984 document.
There are things in here that were never enforced and my checking on it is
that this is still a perfectly valid legal document. You'd have every right to go
down there and say to them, you either live by this document or you come
in for a supplemental SEQRA review including...and you can ask them for it if
you find out that they haven't held to what they agreed to do in this.
Southold Town Planning
18 July 8, '1996
But more importantly, really specifically to the Planning Board is the Planning
Board's responsibilities. And one of the things that I read in here, and you'll
have to excuse me because I have a lot of different notes here, but one of
the things that I find is that it is not your responsibility just to take what
Cross Sound Ferry gives you and pass on it. When they give you an
Environmental Impact Statement which includes a site plan, it is yourjob to
make sure it is accurate and complete to the I~est of your Knowledge. It is
also your responsibility as lead agency to go to every other agency that has
responsibilities in this matter.
That includes the Dept. of State, that includes the Federa government
(inaudible), that includes all coastal assessment, all visual assessment, all of
those things should be done and included prior. We should have already
seen those forms. Where is the visual assessment on this site down here
that they're trying to do. It says it in every SEQRA (inaudible) that I read and
every environmental impact statement in draft, it says if this is a coastal
place stop right here and call the Dept. of State and answer this question.
I've been handed conversations from the Dept. of State and they want you
to ask them those questions They feel that you're remiss n not asking
those questions. But even more importantly, reading about SEQRA and
these are all the latest re-writes that came in as of January I, 1996, read
about the latest information in SEQRA, an agency may find it helpful to seek
the advice and assistance of other agencies, groups and persons on SEQRA
matters including the following. Then it goes into advice on preparation and
rewew of the ElS, all of that before we get to SEQRA.
Recommendations on the s~gnificance or non-significance of actions.
Preparation and reviews of EIS's and recommendations on the scope
adequacy and content of EIS's. I assume what you're saying to us tonight is
that you're willing to accept this. That you essentially are saying that we're
willing to accept the draft ElS as they've presented it. And as I'm reading
the State regulations they're saying that you shouldn't be. There are things
in there that seem obvious to me that should be called on You should be
saying Cross Sound Ferry, we don't believe you can do this. And you should
turn it back to them and say, come back to us based on the regulations. Let
them pay to do the research. Tell them it's their job. They .have to go figure
out what they can do if it is 100 feet.
The other thing is, and I think this is something that didn't really understand
until recently, in the (inaudible) prior to SEQRA there is such a thing as a
Generic Environmental Impact Statement. Now I have not seen that ever
with Cross Sound Ferry, but a GElS allows the discussion in general terms of
Southold Town Plan ning
'19 July 8, 1996
constraint and consequences of any narrowing of future options. Then they
present and analyze in general terms the few hypothetical scenarios that
could and are likely to occur. A GElS may be used to assess the
environmental impacts of, and I'll skip down, the sequence of actions
contemplated by a single agency or individual or several actions ~aving
generic or common impacts or for an entire program or plan had a wide
application or restricting the range of fiJture alternative policies, projects,
including new or significant changes to existing land use plans, development
plans, zoning regulations or agency comprehensive resource management
plans.
GElS and their findings should set forth specific conditions or criteria under
which future actions will [3e undertaken or approved, including requirements
for any subsequent SEQRA compliance. This may include thresholds and
criteria for supplementa EIS's to reflect specific significant impacts such as
site specific impacts that were not adequately addressed or analyzed in the
GElS earlier.
And it further states later that when those specific conditions in that GElS
have been broken or superseded that you as a Planning Board then asthe
lead agency have absolute right to bring Cross Sound Ferry in and say to
them you,re doing 6 million passengers a year, you said you were only going
to do a million Cut it out. And you have a legal basis then at that point at
which to go to the State. And the State said to me that they would be
happy to support you in your seeking Cross Sound Ferry's compliance on
this. But they need you to start that process. If you say to the Dept. of
State, we're getting screwed Dy Cross Sound Ferry, the Dept. of State has
told me that they would be happy to support you in making these laws
enforceable. Thank you
Robert Halicias: My name is Dr. Robert Halicias. I represent the Stars Beach-
East Marion Homeowners Association. I'm appalled at what'l've heard
tonight. Who is holding the destiny of Southold in their hands? Cross Sound
Ferry or the Planning Board and our Town fathers? I'm disgusted with what's
happening here. We have a problem in our area where we can't even get
out onto the Main Rd I can't ride the bicycle route with my grandson
because it's used as a four lane highway at times. I think the DOT must have
given us a story here by creating a bike path. It's a bike route. And from
what I understand it's a four lane highway. If that's what DOT is putting out
there for us, we don't appreciate it And I hope you'll act diligently and take
the destiny of our town into your hands and not Cross Sound. Thank you.
One other thing, the people in East Marion and Orient might have to take
things into their own hands and you figure out what I'm talking about.
Southold Town Planning
20 July 8, 1996
Unknown: I ~ecame interested in the last few weeks. I've lived in Southold
Town for sixty years. My problem was I didn't see enough in newspapers, I
didn't hear enough in the town as to what the issues were here. What are
the problems? Like everything else in life there are precedents. I think if we
took a look we'd find other places in the United States with the same
problem we have. I think there are probably traffic patterns that are very
well Known. How many cars can be handled on a two lane road like bicycle
paths, think all those things are available to us
One of the things I'd ask if we had someone here from the press is there's
not enough communication. There's not enough stuff going out to the
people. There's only 300 people in this organization. I joined it. I didn't
before but I did now. I think you need more communication with the town.
I think you have probably the most critical issue in my sixty years facing us,
and I think you need to tell people what the ground rules are. Is this a thing
that's good for business or ~s it bad for property values? Is it bad for the
residential guy? There's just not enough coming out and I'm disappointed in
that. And I'm disappointed in myself for not coming before. Thank you.
Cynthia Beer: I'm a member of Southold Citizens for Safe Roads. I want to
paint a little picture for you and then I want you to augment that by
projected ridership of (inaudible) passengers, I live directly across Main Road
in Orient from Latham's Farm Stand And let's say that I'm coming east from
Greenport and I have stopped in the eastbound lane to try to make a left
turn into my driveway. And I'm sitting there for maybe ten to fifteen
minutes while in the westbound lane a string of 100 cars comes off the
ferry.
At the same time, at what is called the bike route or the lane to the right of
my lane, cars are speeding past me sometimes at 80 miles an hour while cars
are trying to pull out of the entrances and exits for the farm stand. It is a
disaster waiting to happen. Based on what the traffic is now, it's so
frightening to begin with that you can't even imagine what it would be like
with more and more and more and more traffic on that road.
Now I gather that part of the job of the various boards is - and I'm out here
only 30 years so I'm a relative newcomer- but I gather that part of the
responsibility of public boards is to have some jurisdiction over safeguarding
to the best extent the lives of the individuals who reside in this town. I beg
you to consider this picture and the projected picture of a six million
passenger ridership down the line. Thank you.
Dave Gillispie: My wife and I own property on the north road and we've been
Southold Town Planning
21 July 8, 1996
there 12 years, I think. And for the first ten years it was always a joke, we
knew when the six o'clock boat got in but now it's difficult in the summer to
get out of the driveway, and when I'm turning into the driveway, as just
explained, I have people passing on my right at some horrible speeds about
a foot away from my car.
I don't have a statement, have a question. We put zoning into place in this
town and I guess my question really is why should we make an exception for
a company that's not based in this town that really doesn't bring anything to
this town. They're going too fast to stop for gasoline or farm stands. Most
of its customers are not from Southold Town. Thank you.
Jack Malady: live in Southold. I heard reference this evening that the Town
of Southold has allowed this to happen, the Town of Southold has allowed
that to happen Gentlemen, this is the Town of Southold. Listen to them.
They are telling you something. You are not there to impose your will on
them, you are there I understand to listen to the Town and to guide counsel
and in your infinite wisdom say you're right or you're wrong. But if the
decision is made where the Board is wrong - 150% wrong - five years from
now it's determined but that decision was made because the Town said this
is what we want. Feel at least a little something in your own soul that you
thought it was wrong but you did what the people wanted, right or wrong.
If they are dead wrong, tell them, they'll listen. They'll step back and say,
you know, you're right. We were wrong. So we change our mind and we do
what you recommended.
But don't just sit here and listen to (inaudible) and say fine, the meeting's
over, now we'll do what we want. I'm not saying you would do that. But al
I'm saying is listen to the town. Thank you.
Bob Hicks: I'm a member of the Lands End Property Owners Association.
Lands End Road is almost on top of the ferry. I'm a resident in that area for
11 years and I agree that it's totally impacting the town. But however, the
impact adjacent and around the ferry ~s something that's really terrible to
behold. We came out there, like many of us, as a retirement couple. We
bought the home. A beautiful area. The ferry was there but it's presence
was controlled.
Within the last two years, as everyone has stated, it is impossible to traverse
your roads when the traffic is at.peak. They are parking on Rt. 25on both
sides all the way down, for those of you who know where the Orient By the
Sea Restaurant is, and some to Three Waters Lane. Cars are being left there
for I guess two or three days. Not all of them, but some of them. In our
Southold Town Planning
22 July 8, '1996
road itself parking had gone all the way ~n to the traffic circle. We have
succeeded in getting some attention to that by posting parking regulations
And they have also posted at the end of our road, no parl(ing within the
roadside. In other words you could not (CHANGE TAPE - FIRST FEW
MINUTES, TAPE MALFUNCTIONED)
Unknown: I'm a totally disinterested bystander in this discussion, I suppose
up to a point Although I haven't lived in Southold for thirty years, I did
spend a good deal of my childhood in the house which my husband and I
now own We are Southold taxpayers. And my childhood was more than
half a century ago. And I came to this meeting too out ofI curiosity to hear
what the issues were and what the concerns are. I am disinterested and I
hope that everyone n the Town government in Southold ts equally
disinterested on this issue. And I have also not a statement but a question.
And my question is coming from my concern about disinterest and what
appears to be the extraordinary influence exercised by the Cross Sound Ferry
Company in this small and tranquil and happy and well run town. And my
question is whether any member of the Town government or even the
Planning Board or the Zoning Board nas a monetary or professional
connection to the Cross Sound Ferry Company, and if so I'd like to ask
whether that interest could be declared publicly in a journal of record or
several journals of record, since mention was made earlier of the possibility
of press coverage for this hearing.
And I'd like further to ask that anyone with a connection both to the Town
government and the Cross Sound Ferry Company do what is considered
professional practice in any other local government hearing which is to
decla re that interest and to recuse himself or herself from any further
deliberations about the project. Thank you.
Caroline Wright: Mattituck. I wasn't going to say anything either, don't
know where all of you live. Some of you may live out in Orient, probably
some of you don't. I doesn't matter where you live in this town, it will affect
you As everybody goes rumbling by, it's actually easier to go through the
mess and the traffic circles and the hassles to go to Riverhead Now isn't
that a strange chain of affairs (inaudible).
And then we have the Governor of Connecticut with his lovely wife, they're
very n~ce 13eople I'm sure, saying come on up. I don't Know if you've seen
the commercials. The benefit is going there, not to us. And the traffic and
the other hassles for lack of political will, God help us I hope it's not lack of
integrity anywhere, but these things are going to kill our other businesses,
Southold Town Planning
25 July 8, 1996
our other tourisms. And if this Board and the Zoning Board of Appeals and
the Town Board and the Town Attorneys don't recognize this then I'm sorry,
you're deaf, dumb and blind. Thank you.
Deb Winsor: live in Orient. I'm not a member of any group but I do ive on
the Main Road. Three years ago I bought my house up there and in those
three years I've worked really hard to play by the rules and get the permits
that I need and I think in the last three years it feels that I've worked a lot
harder to play by the rules and be a law abiding citizen and neighbor than
the Cross Sound Ferry has. I guess that's alii have to say.
Tom Angel: Iive on Orient Point, Orient by the Sea. I don't quite understand
when they put a bike route on a road and you have all these cars parked on
the right forcing these people onto the Main Road, which is normally a bike
route.
Mr. Ward: Anyone else like to address the Board this evening?
William Esseks: 'm the attorney for Cross Sound. I've been attending public
meetings for 37 years on behalf of clients. Sometimes in this room and
sometimes in other rooms on the east end. And there are three things that
are obvious to me that have come out of tonight's meeting. One is that the
people in the room only want to use Cross Sound Ferry when it's convenient
for them. And I understand that.
Two, and logically so, no one here understands the SEQRA process, with the
exception of the Board. And three, no one has read the constitution. It's
very interesting when someone said Southold is for Southolders and the
foreigners should stay away. You should go and read the constitution and
you should read the federalist papers. (Everyone talking) I'm not being
patronizing, y~u did it to yourselves. Let's back up a little bit and we'll go
back to last summer.
The Town Juris counsel, with the court, ex parte, tried to shut down the
Cross Sound Ferry. In an hour and a halves notice. The judge said come
back the next day and we spent the day arguing. And I argued that the
State of New York and the Town of Southold had no constitutional ability to
shut down an interstate commerce carrier. And that is also correct. And the
judge has had the argument submitted to him over and over again, shut
them down. And over and over again the attorneys for Cross Sound Ferry
have said judge, most respectfully, you don't have jurisdiction to shut down
interstate commerce carrier. And the judge has not shut down Cross Sound
Ferry, I submit, because he doesn't have the ability to do that.
Southold Town Planning
24 July 8, 1996
And if you read the constitution, the constitution specifically deals with ferry
boats and it says we will not allow parochial groups n one state as opposed
to another to say, we're going to shut down ferries, because they didn't
have airplanes, they didn't have cars, they didn't ~ave trucks, they didn't
have railroads in the 1770's and 1780's when they were doing the
constitution has specifically allowed ferry boats to operate
Now, not withstanding the judge's unwillingness to shut down the ferry, the
judge said to me, Mr. Esseks, you're a good citizen, your client is a good
citizen, make an application to the Town of Southold to try to solve the
perceived problem of parking. Not the perceived problem of traffic, Dut of
Parking. And we are doing that. We submitted a site plan application last
fall. It was rejected. We re-submitted it. We were back before the judge.
The Town again asked the judge to shut us down. Again the judge said he
declined to do that. And we have submitted this.
Now, let's deal with why we're here. We're not here asking you to do
anything other than to do your duty under the Town law to process our
application. And the point at which you have arrived is to start the SEQRA
process, because you have to go through the SEQRA process before you can
say yes or no. I'm not agreeing, and our obligation says we don't agree that
you have jurisdiction to shut us down. Not withstanding that withholding of
consent to jurisdiction, we are doing what the judge suggested and what
Cross Sound has told me to do. Hired experts, prepare a site plan for
submitting an application.
We're now at the point where you look at our application and you decide
whether it's sufficient for the purpose of coordinated review for lead agency
determination. You know that, I know that. The people that told me to shut
up and sit down and tell me I shouldn't be talking like I was in court don't
know that and why should they? Why should a normal person know
anything about the SEQRA process?
But the SEQRA process is that now you start a coordinated review with all the
agencies that are involved and one of you will decide who is going to be the
lead agency. And if you can't agree amongst yourselves the DEC
commissioner will decide. And then sometime during all this you will
probably declare yourself read agency which is a normal event. You will then
at some point have a scoping session. The scoping session comes after lead
agency determination, not before.
And after you have your scoping session and we al scream and shout about
what's to be scoped, we will prepare an environmental impact statement.
Southold Town Planning
25 July 8, 1996
And we'll have multi-sections to it and we'll submit it to you and eventually
you'll say it's sufficient for review. And eventually you'll have a hearing on it.
And at that hearing, everybody who is here today can come in and repeat
the fact that they don't want Cross Sound Ferry, except when they want to
ride on it.
And then you will eventually decide that you've heard enough information
and you'll make a decision on our site plan application. I'm not doing that to
lecture you but from the comments made by the people in the public, they
obviously and logically didn't understand what the process is. You're not
being asked to approve anything tonight other than to tell the other
agencies that we exist, that we have an application and who wants to be
lead agency.
Now, let's talk about roads. Rt. 25 goes from somewhere in Brooklyn, to
Orient. And if you don't get off it, you go onto our boats. If you want to
come back into the state, that's where you would come in. It happens to be
true that any citizen of the State of New York and I submit all citizens of the
United States, can drive up and down Rt. 25 until they're exhausted Until
their car wears out, until they can't see straight. Luckily, most people don't
do that, 13ut they have the right to do that. And they have the right to
come out to Orient, to look at Orient, to go swimming there, to go fishing
there, to go on our boat or not go on our boat.
No one has a right to park in your yard No one has a right in Aquebogue,
where I hive, they make it impossible to get out on the Montauk Hwy. to get
out here to Orient or to go to Mattituck or Jamesport or Southold to visit
you, including your houses, we al have the same problems. I'm concerned
with the statement that zoning controls what happens here. It's not true.
zoning does not control what happens to interstate corn merce carriers.
Zoning cannot tell JFK that they can't have more land, more runways.
Zoning can't tell the Penn State Railroad that it can't make itself larger or
smaller. Maybe that's the way it shouldn't be but when they designed the
constitution they designed it so that people in Orient can't tell people from
Connecticut that they can't drive through Orient. Maybe that's a lousy rule,
but that's the rule that exists. Now, let's talk about parking.
When I went before the judge last summer, the Town Attorney said there
isn't enough parking. We have two and a half acres of property available for
parking, You would rather have us not have enough parking as opposed to
parking in the area that we have. You think about that for a while and you'll
see that a that shows is that you just don't want the ferry. And I
Southold Town Planning
26 July 8, 1996
understand that. Just don't be hypocritical and say we don't have enough
parking. Of course we have enough parking. We have a surplus of parking
that you're trying to pressure the Town to say we don't have enough
parking, and I understand that.
Now, what 'm asking the Town Planning Board to do tonight is something
that was suggested by the court, as a suggestion We're following up on it.
We're submitting maps and plans and meeting with the court and meeting
with counsel and meeting with you. We think we're proceeding at an
absolutely correct and proper and appropriate way and it wasn't our idea to
make an application. The court suggested we make an application and we're
doing it. We're doing it in good faith and we're now ready to have you
move to the next step. And at the appropriate time the people will say,
regard ess of what we do, they don't want it. And I understand that and'l
expect that, but that's why they have boards a nd that's why they have
courts. So respectfully request that you proceed with your SEQRA process,
start the coordinated review and we'l spend the summer and the fall and
the w'nter meeting here and having a good time. Thank you very much.
Walter Smith: Having been nvolved in coastal management for almost 30
years I think I know a little something about SEQRA, having trained students
that way. But I'd just like to bring one thing up. It's the purpose of the
board also to protect the health of the people in the area And in the latest
edition of the Journa of the Institute of Biology, we have a tremendous
article on the problems of pollution caused by automobiles.
Now, it's not only respiratory that's causing these problems it's cardiac. We
find a new material of (inaudible) in ~)ringing the material into the circulatory
system and we are experiencing a large number of heart attacks. In UK they
had 10,000 deaths last year due to this. Now it's the purpose of the board
to protect the health of this community.
Now I just did a little bit of arithmetic just for the fun of it and it would just
take the line between Riverhead and Southold It takes about 2 gallons of
gasoline to go from there to Orient and back again, right? So a gallon of
gasoline weighs about 8 lbs. So that means we are using 16,000 lbs. of
material, burning it, every time cars go back and forth. A thousand cars,
which is not a large number. So what I did I calculated out if we had 200
operating days on the ferry and we multiply that out, being poured into the
Town of Southold, into its water and atmosphere on the basis of 1,000 cars,
is 3,200,000 lbs. of pollutants and other materials, which is a lot of material.
Now we don't know what the toxicity of a lot of these things are. Particular
Southold Town Planning
27 July 8, 1996
is fairly new. We don't know how the nitrogen oxide (inaudible) alone. We
only have ideas And what we're doing is playing Russian Roulette with the
children and the people of this area, if we allow the ferry to increase n s~ze.
No one wants the ferry to stop, but we want the ferry to be responsible
citizens and keep the load down. Thank you.
Eric Bressler: Mr. Chairman, I would like to sum up for this group if I may for
2 or 3 minutes. First of all I'd like to thank Mr. Esseks very much for the
lecture on constitution and public utilities law. Always nice to learn
something, or did we? Let's examine what's been said. Mr. Esseks has told
us that as a matter of constitutiona law no one has a right to tell his client
what to do. Well, that's plain and simple just not so. The cases make it clear
that local boards have regulatory authority in conformance with the
guidelines set thereby by the courts. There seems to be no doubt about
that.
He has further told us that the court in ruling upon the suit that was brought
by the Town decided on jurisdictional grounds that it was not to grant the
relief sought. That's just simply not true. And no further application has
been made to the court for injunctive relief after the initial presentation. So
Ithink those couple of facts just need to be set straight.
Third, I think that Mr. Esseks was right in at least one thing that he said and
that was that you really should focus on the issue, and we didn't hear a
whole lot from him on that, and that was whether or not this is sufficient to
go forward for SEQRA. That is why we're here, and it isn't. And that's our
position. It is not sufficient to go forward for SEQRA. They have not
presented a unified site plan that would enable you to address all the
concerns.
Finally, and most interestingly we are told by Mr. Esseks, and correctly so
that we're here tonight, but guess why. We're not submitting to your
jurisdiction. We're here because the judge told us to do it but we don't
have to be here and we don't concede that you have jurisdiction. Now just
so all the lay people in this room who seemingly have no understanding of
the SEQRA process, I'm presuming they have no understanding of what that
means as well. What that means is that what he's told you tonight is that
he's willing to go through the motions but if he doesn't like the outcome,
guess what, not only is he going to argue about it but he's going to tell this
board that it had no jurisdiction, it didn't have the power in the first
instance to require him to do anything. So not only could he not like the
results, he could say that this board had no authority whatsoever to render
those results. Now I'm not saying that that's not a good lawyerly argument
Southold Town Planning
28 July 8, ~ 996
but let's not come here and not understand what's really going on. They
have not submitted to the jurisdiction of this board Not one iota. And they
have reserved everything. And they are now asking this board to go forward
and declare this thing ready for SEQRA. It is not ready for SEQRA. This board
must make these people present a unified site plan that can be reviewed
knowing full well that down the road if the results are not liked they're not
only going to litigate with you over the substance, they're going to litigate
over your right to regulate them. I think the cases are clear. You do have a
right to regulate them. don't think anybody here should be under the
misapprehension that Cross Sound Ferry is here because they want to be
here or that they're n~ce folks. They're going through the motions. But, if
they go through the motions and they come up with something that
everybody here can live with, then I think we're all going to be in favor of it.
But let's not kid each other about why they're here and what they're
intending to do We don't think that the board has enough before it to go
forward, as Mr. Esseks says to argue through the summer and argue over the
fall, only later to find out that you didn't have enough before you and have
to start all over again which is going to be the inevitable result. So, based
upon that we urge the board to require Cross Sound Ferry to come back
before them with a full complete and responsible plan. Thank you.
Howard Meinke: I live in Cutchogue. I think we just want to get our priorities
in order. I think it's safe to say that if Brown and Ferris ndustries, they're a
national (inaudible) company, wanted to put a toxic waste dump in Orient,
the Board and the Town Board and all the other boards would work like hell
to not let it happen. Now, this ferry expansion is by an out of state firm. It's
for the benefit of other citizens somewhere, not our citizens, It's going to
degrade our infrastructure. It's going to degrade our environment. It's
going to degrade our quality of life. This ferry expansion is actually a toxic
waste dump. In fact it's a stealth waste dump because people don't
recognize it.
So, support your citizens and stop the da mn thing. It's not an argument to
shut down the ferry, it's an argument to restrict it. Hold it where it is. Mr,
Esseks talked a lot, I don't know the pluses and minuses of his argument but
when we were in the Vier Nam war a hell of a lot of people protested it and
it turns, out the bulk of those people were right in my view. I think this is our
Vier Nam here. We want to stand firm, we don't want the expanded Cross
Sound Ferry. Now let's get our aucks in a row and do what we have to do
and don't get sweet talked by these people who are here to make a fee but
not to do good for the Town of Southold. Thank you.
William Esseks: Eric gets two shots, I should get two shots. I still think that
Southold Town Planning
29 July 8, 1996
the members of the public don't understand why we're here. The process is
that the next step ~s coordinated review. That's what the next step is. If the
Board doesn't want to do that then the judge's admonition to me to make
an application, I can repor~ back to the judge that I made an application and
the Board doesn't want to go ahead That's between you and your
consciences and the judge, but I'm doing what he asked me to do. You've
been doing what the judge asked you to do up until this evening. The
populace comes in and says stop the system, we want to get off. We don't
trust the system to work. I can't believe that the people who oppose the
ferry want to stop the system from worldng. And if they do and if it's being
done on a vote basis, you'll respond one way and if you want the SEQRA
system to work in compliance with the judge's admonition, you'll do it
another way.
But don't think that people understand what you're doing and why you're
doing it and think you ought to allow the system to work and we'll do it and
we'll fight about it and then we'll end up ~n court one way or the other. But
to say we're going to stop it tonight, it's the first-time I've ever heard of the
populace saying don't let the SEQRA system work. The SEQRA is designed
like a library or encyclopedia to bring all diverse thoUghts before the lead
agency. I've never heard of the people saying we hate it so much, we don't
want to hear about it. But this group says to you stop it. Now, you can stop
it if you want to but it's going to go right back on track. All you're doing is
delaying the inevitable of this application being processed. You can't hang
the guy before you have the trial. They want to do the hanging first and
have the trial second. Let's do the trial first. Thank you very much, (CHANGE
TAPE)
Harold Watson: I'm not only interested in the future of Southold, I interested
in the past of Southold. From history on Southold, in the 1840's we ran into
someone who came into the town in the same way the Cross Sound Ferry is
and it was called the Long island Railroad. The onginal Long Island Railroad
was a wood burning, fire cinder growing train that came in here. And at the
time Southold was a very very strict "nothing happens on Sunday" kind of
place. And the train kept coming in and the citizens of Southold said stop it,
you're screwing up our neighborhood. You're burning down our fields.
You're burning up our barns.
And nothing happened. And eventually the citizens of Southold went out
and started burning the tracks and they kept burning the tracks until Long
Island Railroad came in and said what can we do to make you happy? And
eventually Long Island Railroad people came in and sat down and said, we
won't have trains on Sunday, we'll give you better train stations, we'l blow
Southold Town Planning
$0 July 8, Igg6
the whistle at every intersection. Little things that we accept now as
common and acceptable things were fought by the citizens that went out
after a private business. And that's what we need to continue to do. That's
the process that we're asking to go forward with SEQRA We're not asking
for Cross Sound Ferry to be shut down, like we've never said for Long Island
Railroad to leave us. We've said be appropriate to our community. And I
think that that's something that I really, truly want Mr. Esseks and the Board
to hear.
Mr. Ward: Is there anyone else that would like to address the Board? I would
just ask that if you do that we cover another point that we haven't covered.
We've talked the subject through pretty much tonight. If not, what the
Planning Board will do will be meeting with the applicant within the next
week or so to try and resolve the issues on a more complete site plan with a
hopeful start on the 29th of having this meeting again where we could start
the SEQRA process. So to that end we thank you for coming and we'll be in
touch. We'll take a two minute recess to let those that would like to leave,
leave.
(Note: Ken Edwards left meeting.)
Mr. Ward: Stron.q's Marina - This site plan is for the construction of a 5,336
sq. ft. sales office and shop; 2,400 sq. ft. show room and a 2,223 sq. ft. boat
storage rack, located at Camp Mineola Rd. in Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-122-
4-44.2 and 122-9-3 & 6.1. is the applicant here and would like to address
the Board? If not, what is the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, '11 offer this. Be it resolved that the Southold
Town Planning Board start the coordination process on this unlisted action.
Mr. Cremers: Second
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Determinations:
Southold Town Planning 31 Julv 8, '1996
Mr. Ward: Mattituck Realty, L.L.C. - This proposed site plan is for the
construction of a 6,000 square foot office building for medical/
dental office use. SCTM# 1000-122-6-29.2 What's the pleasure of the
Board?
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution. Be it resolved
that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes itself as lead agency, and as
lead agency makes a determination of non-significance and grants a
Negative Declaration.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, rvlr. Latham, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: San Simeon by the Sound - This proposed site plan is for the
construction of a 13,650 square foot parking lot. SCTM# 1000-45-2-p/o
10.3 What's the pleasure of the Board?
Mr Latham: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer this resolution. Be it resolved that the
Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Enwronmental Quality
Review Act, establishes itself as leac~ agency, and as lead agency makes a
determination of non-s~gnificance and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr.. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Latham: A further resolution. Be it resolved that the Southold Town
Planning Board set Monday, July 29, 1996 at 7:00 p.m. for a final public
hearing on the maps dated May 30, 1996.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Southolcl Town Planning 32 July 8, '1996
Ayes: Mr. Odowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: Another order of business, I'd like to offer the following resolution.
WHEREAS, the Brewer Yacht Yard at C;reenport, Inc. is the owner of the
property known and designated as Brewer Yacht Yard at the SAN/c of
Manhannset Ave. and Beach Rd.; and
WHEREAS, this site plan was approved by the Planning Board on January 11,
1993; and
WHEREAS, the property owner is still implementing aspects of the approved
plan, in accordance with that plan; and
WHEREAS, the site plan expired on January 11, 1996, and;
WHEREAS, a six month extension was granted, to expire on July 11, 1996,
and;
WHEREAS, the Board finds that this plan is still in compliance with the Zoning
Code; be it therefore
RESOLVED that the Planning Board extends its site plan approval for a period
of 12 months to expire on July 11, 1997.
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
Mr. Ward: Board to approve the June 10, 1996 minutes.
Southold Town Planning
Mr. Cremers: Moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Ward: Moved and seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: There being no further business on our formal agenda ...
Mr. Latham: I move we adjourn.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Mr. Ward: All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carded.
There I~eing no further business to come Defore the Board, the meeting
adjourned at 8:35 p.m.
July 8, 1996
Richard O. Ward, Chairman
Respectfully submitted,
Martha A, Jones
Secretary
RECEIVED AND FILED B¥~
THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLV~K
i To
Clerk, Town of Southota