HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/10/1996PLANNING BOARD MI~MBERS
RICHARD G. WARD
Chairman
GEORGE RITCHIE LATHAM, JR.
BENNETT ORLOWSKI, JR.
WILLIAM J. CREMERS
KENNETH L. EDWARDS
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
Present were:
Absent:
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
JUNE '10, '1996
Richard G. Ward, Chairman
Bennett Orlowski, Jr.
G. Ritchie Latham
Kenneth Edwards
William Cremers
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Robert G. Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer
Martha Jones, Secretary
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Mr. Ward: Good evening. I'd like to call to order the June 10, 1996 Planning
Board meeting. The first order of business is the setting of the next Planning
Board meeting. Board to set Monday, July 8, 1996 at 7:00 p.m. at Southold
Town Hall, Main Road, Southold, as the time and place for the next regular
Planning Board meeting.
Mr. Cremers: So moved
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Ward: Moved and seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Mr. Ward: Summit Estates - Sec. 2 & 3 - Sections 2 & 3 of this major
subdivision are for 25 lots on 23 acres located on the southwest corner of
Southold Town Planning Board 2
June 10, 1996
Main Rd. NYS Rt. 25) ano Shipyard Lane in East Marion. SCTM# 1000-35-8-
5.3. Is the applicant or the agent of the applicant here that would like to
address the Board?
Donna Oeraghty: am the applicant for Summit Estates, Sections 2 & 3. This
is an existing application and basically we have no changes whatsoever. No, I
stand back, we Nave a partnership that we took on with Section 2 & 3. Other
than that nothing has changed. Everything is the same and we are just
looking to go ahead and file the map. There is a moratorium on Greenport
water so therefore, we'll be making application for wel water. That's one
change. Other than that, the map is the same.
Mr. Ward: Is there anybody here that would like to address the Board
regarding this proposed subdivision for Sections 2 & 3?
Bob ngram: My name is Bob Ingram, 600 Shipyard Lane, and I'm in Summit
Estates, one of the two houses in Summit Estates. I have no problem with
what they want to do or what is proposed. I have a problem with what they
haven't done. We have an ongoing thing.., think his name is Ed Forrester,
your investigator, and we've been trying to get them to clean up this area
that belongs to Summit Estates, and we're getting nowhere fast.
You have two mounds of tires there.
Ms. Oeraghty: That's been taken care of.
Bob Ingram: No, the tires are still there. I just left there. Two mounds of
tires there, you've got a derelict boat. Some of the stuff has been moving
out but this has been going on for a year and a half. So maybe this is the
time the Town can look into getting it cleaned up.
Mr. Ward: Would the applicant like to address that?
Ms. Oeraghty: Yes, this situation has already been taken care of. He's
referring to tires, we were down there, they were cleaned up. If he's telling
me that they're there again, I'd be happy to look into it but as far as the
cleanup, the project itself, we haven't really done much as far as the beach
is' concerned because we didn't put in any of the improvements for Section
1. It's on its way. We're planning to start work on this next Friday. Yes, he's
been the first one there and it's been a long process but we're on the way
now.
Southold Town Planning Board
$ June10,1996
Mr. Ward: We have in our possession a lot of photos taken by Mr. Forrester
of various debris that is on the open space area. I think this Board was going
to take a look before we process anything further, but it better be off there
otherwise we may not be going ahead with this. So we need to know that
you're doing it and that you're serious about doing what you promised to do
in Phase 1.
Ms. Geraghty: That's fine.
Mr. Ward: Anyone else like to address the Board this evening?
Ms Geraghty: don't know if you need the document stating that the sign
was posted and that eve ryone was notified?
Mr. Ward: Yes, that would be good. I would accept the motion then tonight
to hold the hearing open until the next meeting and for us to review the
situation regarding the open space on Section I.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Orlowski: Dick, someone has their hand up.
Mr. Ward: I'm sorry, we'l hold on the motion.
Unknown: I'm sorry, I didn't get my hand up quick enough to respond to the
problems there. She said she put up a sign, I'd just like to know if she's
going to take it down?
Ms. Geraghty: Absolutely.
Unknown: They don't have a good record for cleaning up. Thank you.
Mr. Ward: Did I miss anyone else at this point? We're holc~ing' this hearing
Southold Town Planning Board
4 June 10,1996
open until at least the next meeting to look into this situation and hopefully
it will be resolved before .the next meeting that we can proceed with the
subdivision.
Mr. Ward: O'Kula - This minor subdivision is for 2 lots on 16.5116 acres,
located on ndian Neck Rd. in Peconic. SCTM# 1000-98-1-1 4 & 1.5 Is the
applicant here that would ike to address the Board?
Henry Raynor: Good evening Mr. Chairman, members of the Board. My name
is Henry Raynor and I'm representing the applicant. The subdivision before
you was submitted to the Planning Board in November of 1993, and
subsequently we met with Mr. Kassner with regard [o the open space for the
lot and the remainder of the farm. At the Planning Board's request, we re-
designed the lot for the open space, the configuration that was requested,
and in January of 1994 we revised those maps and sent them back to the
Board.
In March of 1994 the Board declared themselves lead agency under SEQRA
and as an additional request in May, we submitted a notarized signature of
Mary Kull as the owner of the prol2erty.
In June of 1994 we received a Negative Declaration under SEQRA from this
Board and a sketch plan approval. In September of 1994 the Department of
Health Services got around to locating the test wel and in January of 1995
they were installed and had an above standard nitrate count.
In March, the well had been relocated and deepened and met the county
standards with regard to their specifications, n May of 1995 we requested
an extension of the sketch plan approval from this Board, and it was
approved.
In April of 1996 we received final approval from the Suffolk County
Department of Health Services that would allow us to come before you this
evening. It is our contention that we are in complete compliance with
Section 106 of the Town Regulations and we would request a final approval
on this 2 lot subdivision. If there are any questions 'd be happy to address
them for the Board.
Mr, Ward: Is there anyone else here this evening that would like to address
the Board on this application? Yes, sir.
Southold Town Planning Board
5 June10,1996
Frank Kull: 'm Frank Kull. I'm the next door neighbor to this subdivision here
and I object to l~his subdivision. This subdivision is labeled as O'Kula family.
Which one? There are O'Kula families in Orient, Riverhead, all over. To me
there has got to ~)e a name there, don't you think? What O'Kula? And being
that Carol O'Kula has the power of attorney, isn't this a conflict of interest
for her daughter? On July 28, 1994, Carol O'Kula, Robert Kull, Frank Kull
(me), were appointed power of attorney for Mary Kull. However, this power
of attorney was not registered with the county of Suffolk because all three
of us trusted each other. Needless to say, on August 26 Carol O'Kula had
Robert KuII and myself taken off the power of attorney, leaving her sole
power of attorney.
However, this power of attorney was not recorded with the county until
November 28, 1994. Bein [I that this power of attorney was void for the
three of us from July 28 to August 26, 1994, Carol O'Kula could not have
been legally from the 26 to the 28, being there's a three month lapse,
before the power of attorney was recorded.
I feel that between August 26 and November 28, 1994 all legal actions
concerning this subdivision by Carol O'Kula should be voided. There are
S8,000 in back taxes not paid on Mary Kull's farm. There s a lien with social
services on the house and property. So how can the Town take a piece of
property that has a lien on it, they don't know who owns it, but told by
social services that if the house and farm is sold, Mary Kull will be taken off
Medicaid, and nave to use up all the money left from the farm sale. When
that is gone, then Medicaid will take over again.
When this happens, where is your park money going to be when the money
is all gone? There are eight parks on Indian Neck Lane as it is now, or will be,
with the farmland there
In May, June and July of 1994 Robert Kull had Mary I(ull's farm :appraised.
Everything, the farm house, the whole works. At the August meeting of
social services, Carol O'Kula pulled out a deed dated backto April 25, 1994.
So this property has to come out of the farm that was appraised. I guess
Carol O'Kula was keeping one step ahead of Medicaid.
Suppose he being a professional subdivider, why would Henry Raynor cut out
a lot short of the two acre Southold Town zoning requirements? I have a 20
foot r-o-w by 600 feet that goes to the creek and that is figured in on their
property as their driveway, or their only access to their property.
Sout:holcJ Town Planning Board
6 June 10,1996
There is a quarter to at least a half acre of wetlands involved. Originally this
parcel was short 5,000 feet, the next time it was 10,000, theh 25,000 feet
or being a legal building lot. What gives? Who is making the different
figures for now much you need? Before, my driveway was originally
included in the lot, then the last I heard it was not included In all the haste
to get this lot approved before [Vledicaid got involved could there be any
illegal doings by Henry Raynor, Carol O'Kula, etc. I feel there is some fraud
nvolved here.
Bob Kassner told me and my wife that the first day this lot was gone, Henry
Raynor did many unethical things, plus the whole project was shaky.
Robert Kassner: Mr. Kull, I object to that comment. I did not make that
statemenT.
Mr. Kull: You told that to my wife and me.
Mr Kassner: No.
Mr. Kull: Yes, right ~n your office.
Mr. Kassner: No.
Mr. Kull: Now on Section C, see zoning and planning information 9-8 80,000
square foot minimum size lot, are these two subdivisions going to be
160,000 square foot, or what?
Mr. Kassner: I'1 respond to all your comments when you've concluded.
Mr. Kull: According to the Town Attorney and Bob Kassner a lot taken off a
farm, a parcel, a subdivision has to take place first, to get a tax number.
However, this property iS deeded and has a tax number, plus they pay 800
some odd dollars in taxes. Who can explain this? How can they get a tax
number without a subdivision?
On the 6th of June, 1996 my wife and I were at the Planning Board getting
some information on this lot being subdivided. Being that you only get a
couple of days notice on final hearings. There are two parcels to be
subdivided. How i$ it that the Town has collected only $2,000. Southold
Town law requires S2,000 for each subdivision. As of June 10, 1996 at 10
a.m. your folder showed that only S2,000 was paid, paid dated 5/14/96. As
Southold Town Planning Board
7 June lO, 1996
per Section A-106-38E3, these fees must be paid before any possible final
approval is issued.
Now Mr. Kassner on Friday you told me it was all paid in full. And the folder
did not show it this morning. $4,000.00?
Mr. Kassner: No, $2,000,00.
Mr. Kull: For each subdivision.
Mr. Kassner: Only if it's a vacant lot, Mr. Kull. If there is a house on the lot,
the $2,000.00 is not applicable.
Mr. Kull: Well, the way I read it in the folder.
Mr. Kassner: Well, you read it improperly.
Mr. Ward: What I'd appreciate you do, you're raising a lot of questions, if you
could just complete all of the questions and the Board will try and respond
to it.
Mr. Kulh As of Friday, Bob Kassner told me he has already approved a portion
of this subdivision. I can't see how he can approve a portion of a
subdivision. Being the short notice of this final hearing, I have contacted
Social Service. According to them they are checking out all of the
statements I have read. They also have been notified that the prope~y value
was stated as being 10 to S12,000.00 for 1.7 acres. The real value is
between 75 and S85,000.00 range. Being waterfront, waterview property,
S5.00 s a pretty good steal.
I feel that these two subdivisions should be denied. The facts read to you
are true. If you people need any more information concerning these two
subdivisions, I'd be glad to do my best to give you any information I can
Thank you
Mr. Ward: Thank you. Is there anyone else that would like to address the
Board on this issue?
Mr. Raynor: If not Mr. Chairman, maybe I could just clarify a few issues. To
use Mr. Kull's dates, my letter of authorization to proceed by Mary Kull, was
May of 1994, and I think the Board is cognizant that we are well aware of the
Southold Town Planning Board
8 June 10,1996
two acre zoning, and in fact, have provided the open space contingent with
the lot that is necessary. The O'Kula family name, Lisa O'Kula, now Lisa O'Kula
Defriest and her ~usband, are here tonight, she is the granddaughter of
Mary Kull and in fact some of the delay in this processing was clearing up
some of Mr. Frank Kull's questionable property concerning a lot that the
research Mr. Kassner brought up And through the Town Attorney's office,
Mr. Kassner was able to legalize that lot also. If the Board has any other
questions I'd be happy to respond
Mr Ward: Anyone else like to address the Board on the O'Kula subdivision?
Clarine Newald: We're neighbors. We have no position on the subdivision
issue, but we have noticed on the larger of the two parcels right on Indian
Neck Lane, before it Turns and becomes (inaudible), there's an old gas pump
that suggests to us is probably an old gas tank underneath it, and we
wondered what the story was in terms of what investigation was made as to
the environmental qualifications of the property in that regard, prior to the
subdivision?
Mr. Kull: I can answer that. I took that gas tank out when they were
supposed to come out, when they first started taking them out, and it didn't
have any leaks in it. It's still good
Mr. Ward: Anyone else ike to address the Board? If not, based on a few of
the questions raised, I'd like to submit a resolution to hold the hearing open
until the next meeting.
Mr. Orlowski: So moved
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Ward: All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. This will give the Board a little time to
address some of those issues and double check to see that we're following
in the right procedure. Thank you for coming and addressing the Board.
Southold Town Planning Board
9 June 10,1996
Mr. Ward: Robert & Christa Brown - This site plan is for the construction of a
1800 sq. ft. office building located on Rt. 25 in Greenport. SCTM# 1000-45-
4-6.1. Is the applicant here and would like to address the Board? Anybody
~ere that would like to address the Board on this application? If not, I'd like
to offer the following resolution that the Southold Town Planning Board hold
the hearing open pending receipt of curb cut permit.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried
Mr. Ward: At this time, we have a group this evening from the Mattituck High
School ninth grade art class presentation and 'd like to put them in now
Most of the rest of the agenda for tonight is fairly regular things and I'd ike
to put those in right now if we could for their oresentation to the Board.
Valerie Scopaz: While they're setting up we'll just introduce Susan Grossman,
who is their teacher and maybe you could introduce the members of the
class. Basically, what they're doing is that they're going to make a
presentation of a project that they have been working on this past semester.
Earlier this year I was asked to come down to the class and simply discuss
what we do in Planning. And we talked a little bit about what the Planning
Board does and we talked about designing buildings within a community.
And one of the things we that we talked about was all the elements that go
into designing a building in a community.
The class decided to take as its project, doing just that; and what they're
doing tonight is they're going to present to you their project. And have no
idea What it is, so this will be the first time they have presented it and it will
be as though they're a development class and they're going to make a pitch
for their project. So, go ahead.
Susan Orossman: Good evening. My name is Mrs. Grossman, and these are
four of my students, David Orlowski, Annie Roberts, Carl Ann Addonizio and
Lauren Delaney, And we're here tonight as a culmination of our proJect
Southold Town Plan ning Board
10 June 10,1996
which was to make art seem more real by including architecture in a more
local and real way, So I thought arts and action here, They put together
their thoughts and ideas of how they would like to improve the Town of
Southold for their own needs and being that in the next decade they'll be an
increase by 20% nationally, of teenagers. And as a parent am concerned
that a lot of our children are moving away from New York. I would like to
keep them here and to meet their needs, so we gave them the o;)tion to
choose an architecture project to make Mattituck more suitable to their
needs. And I had no choice in what they decided to do. They chose it on
their own and 1 don't know who to show,
Ms. Scopaz: Show it to the Board. You're making your presentation to the
Board.
Ms. Grossman: Students goals for Town planning were, with Valerie's help,
she helped us to see what the vis~on of the Town was, and the students put
it in their own words. So what you see here are their objectives. They
wanted to keep the town safe, clean, quiet and, in their words, homey. And
they looked at some of the buildings, and we talked about how the new
McDonald's had a homey look to it, is what they said So we used that as
one of our main guides to designing buildings that would fit into the
community and be sensitive to what was already here.
They thought they would like to have a beach pavilion with a restaurant and
a boardwalk and activities for people, and a handicap access, art displays,
other activities going on in this pavilion. They thought it would be nice to be
at Veteran's Park or the baseball field down the road a bit with the Mattituck
Yacht club. So that's where they would like to put the beach pavilion. David,
would you show the Board please?
Mr. Ward: Maybe we could use the easel so everyone could see it. I thinkthe
audience might be interested also.
Ms. Orossman: David worked with three other students and together they
constructed this building. You see part of the boardwalk there. David,
would you like to add anything?
David: You can eat. You can go on the boardwalk if you like and boats can
come to it and access from both sides and nice landscaping so it fits in a
little more. And it would be very good to have for a family, not just
teenagers.
Southold Town Planning Board
11 June dO, 1996
Ms. Orossman: They wanted a place for themselves to feel comfortable and
some activities to do. We thought of other ways to use the property like
having an Indian reservation or some Kind of artifacts of the community to
put there as an attraction for families to come. But they like the idea that
you can access it from the water or by car or bicycle.
Another was a mall because our ladies would like to have some more clothes
stores in the community. And this is their project, the new Mattituck Mall,
adjacent to the present carvel, on that nice lot. And they wanted to make it
homey and taking the cue from McDonald's they have the nice windows.
They even have a little bench there to sit on when you're waiting for the bus.
They landscaped it and they felt they made it look like a home to fit into the
area.
And they have other ac:ivities that they would like to have going on in this
mall. Carl Ann, would you like to tell us of some of the activities?
Carl Ann: There could be fashion shows, art shows, boat shows, whatever, a
community walk in the morning.
Ms Grossman: And lots of clothes stores. Thank you Cad Ann And then the
kids wanted a teen club or a community center where they could go, feel
safe with their friends, have dancing and food and places where they could
have after school activities, different types of clubs or things that they could
do with their age group, So this is Annie Roberts and Annie and Lauren
Delaney worked on this project along with Jackie Roddell Would you girls
have anything you'd like to add to your proJect?
Annie/Lauren: Well, we just basically wanted something for the teenagers in
the area for upcoming generations of teenagers to have to go to instead of
the movies or bowling or whatever.
And we could also provide music lessons because there would be a band
area.
, , ?
Ms. Orossman: And was the location on Ba~ley s Beach. They wanted to be
on the water so they could have water activities and things to do to.
Annie/Lauren: Like volleyball.
Ms. Orossman: Thank you very much. (change tape) And the last project is
Southold Town Planning Board
12 June 10, 1996
another teen club or community center, activity center. They called it "The
Place". They were first going to call it Sunflowers because they were in the
sunflower mood from last summers winery exhibit, so they put the
sunflowers, but they too wanted a community center for themselves to be
able to go after school.
That is our list of activities and objectives and I hope you take their thoughts
and ideas and their efforts that they've been putting into this for three
months creating these projects and I'm very proud that the four of them
have come here tonight to show you what they have done and their ideas to
make the community a place where the children would like to stay and not
move away from.
Mr. Ward: Well, thank you very much and I'd just like to give a little
appreciation here (applause). We also appreciate Your efforts. I was
wondering is it possible to hold these for one day or so. What we'd like to
do is...Supervisor Cochran was hoping she could be here tonight to hear the
presentation and she would like to see the graphics tomorrow.
Ms. Grossman: You may have them as long as you like.
Mr. Ward: I'm sure she'll be getting back to the students. We appreciate
your effort and concerns for the community and as the teacher, Ms,
Grossman, we appreciate your efforts also in directing the project.
Ms. Orossman: Thank you And we would like to thank Valerie very much for
your help. We appreciate it very much.
Ms. Scopaz: Your welcome.
Mr. Latham: I think some of our architects in town should have been here.
I'm amazed by these things, they're very professiona and colorful. We don't
often see things like that. (laug [~ter)
Mr. Orlowski: You know I' have to abstain from a couple of these votes
(laughter).
Southold Town ;lanning Board
15 June10,1996
Setting of Final Hearings:
Mr. Ward: Eliiah Lane Estates - Sec. 2 & 3 - This proposed major subdivision is
for a total of 27 lots on 38.56 acres Nineteen lots are proposed n
Section 2 and eight lots are proposed in Section 3. SCTM# 1000-108-
4-7.1. What's the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to entertain a motion that the Southold
Town Planning Board set Monday, July 8, 1996 at 7:00 p.m. for a final public
hearing on the maps dated March, 1996.
Mr. Latham: Second
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Sketch Extensions:
Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I offer this. Be it resolved that the Southold Town
Planning Board grant a six month extension of sketch approval from June 11,
1996 to December 11, 1996.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: Ann Marie Nelson - This proposed minor subdivision ~s for 4 lots
on 12.1 acres located on the west side of North St. in Greenport. SCTM#
1000-45-6-9. What's the pleasure of the Board?
Southold Town Planning Board
14 June t0,1996
Review of Reports: Engineering:
Mr. Ward: William Baxter - This minor subdivision is for 4 lots on 2.78 acres
located on the northeast side of Griffing St. and the southeast side of School
House Rd. in Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-5-9.3 I see that the agent for the
applicant is here. It's in regard to William Baxter and the engineering report.
If you wish to address the Board, you may at this time.
Abigail Wickham: My name is Abigail Wickham, on behalf of the applicant Mr.
Baxter. The engineenng report raised several types of questions, one of
which revolved around the exact location of the Griffing St. improvements
and the logistics of how the sidewalks and curbing should be laid out and
should be properly shown on the map.
We've asked the surveyor to research that further, think the map is correct
but we can add the detail that the Engineer requested, and that's under
way. We'll also ask him to change the scale of the map so that it's a little
more easily legible on a larger scale.
The thing that I wanted to address the Board on however, was the drainage
calculations. As you can see from the property, there is a lot of the property
that's below the grade of the street, although there ~s an enbankment and a
lot of work is going to have to be done on the drainage calculations within
the site itself and any runoff or flow contained.
What concerns me is the comment in the engineering report that the runoff
from the adjacent street in front of the project also be addressed and I
would like the opportunity to discuss that with the Town Engineer and the
Town Highway Department because I think that that needs to be somewhat
of a common effort.
There's a very Iow spot over on the north side of Bergen St. - I think there's a
sump there, I have to check with them on that - but I do think that's
something that should not fall exclusively within the purview of the
applicant.
Mr. Ward: The purpose of tonight's resolution is basically to adopt the
Engineering Inspector's report. It doesn't make it cast in stone but it at least
sets the process, and those were your issues with it. So based on that is
there a pleasure of the Board?
Southold Town Plannin ~1 Board
~5. June 10,1996
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Chairman, I make a motion to adopt the Engineering
Inspector's report dated April 30, 1996.
Mr Cremers: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried. Those issues will be addressed to him'
from the minutes.
Nancy Gilles: My husband is part owner of the abutting property and this is
the first I ever heard anything about this and I don't know if the abutting
owners would be notified of it or is it well along the way. I just happened to
be here and hear it.
Ms Wickham: I'd be happy to show you the map and go over it with you.
Ms Gilles: Thank you And the Town is not under any obligation to notify us?
Mr. Ward: It will be in the process. There would be a sign put up on the site,
yes. But the applicant's agent is here and also you could come into the
Planning Board office and review the map
Ms Gilles: My husband said he would.
Mr. Ward: Is there anyone else on that project that would like to address the
Board? If not, we'll go on Lo the next order of business
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF
APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL qUALITY REVIEW ACT
Lead Agency Coordination:
Mr. Ward: John & Patricia McCarvil - This major subdiwsion is for 3 lots on
118,795 sq. ft. in Southold. SCTM# 1000-78-7-32.7. What's the pleasure of
the Board?
Southold Town Planning Board 16
June 10, 1996
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution. Be it resolved
that the Southold Town Planning Board start the lead agency coordination
process on this unlisted action.
Mr. Latham: Second the motion.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT
Lead Agency Coordination:
Mr. Ward: Mattituck Realty L.L.C. - This proposed site plan is for the
construction of a 6,000 square foot office building for medical/dental office
use. SCTM# 1000-122-6-29.2. What's the pleasure of the Board?
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I offer the following resolution Be it resolved
that the Southold Town Planning Board start the coordination process on
this unlisted action. The Board makes an initial determination of non-
significance.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: San Simeon by the Sound, Inc. - This proposed site plan is for the
construction of a 13,650 sq. ft. parking lot. SCTM# 1000-45-2-p/o 10.3.
What's the pleasure of the Board?
Southold Town Planning Board
June~0,1996
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Southold Town Planning Board
start the coordination process on this unlisted action. The Board makes an
initial determination of non-significance.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
Mr. Ward: Board to approve the May 20, 1996 minutes.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: MovecJ and seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr, Latham, Mr, Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward,
Mr. Ward: 0;)posed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: The Board, following this public part of the meeting will be going
into a work session which you are all welcome to stay for. If there is
anything you'd like at this time put into the recora, or address the Board on
any issue you may do that at this time before we close. If not, we'll be
taking a two minute recess to set up for a work session.
Christine Vaccari: Bob, when would you like to hear some of the concerns of
the citize ns that are here regarding Broadwaters Cove?
Mr. Kassner: Well, Broadwaters Cove ~s part of the work session, but if you
want to put it on the record, you could do so at this time.
sOUthold Town Planning Board 18
June 10, 1996
Mr. Ward: Yes, those that are here regarding Broadwaters Cove issue you can
address the Board now on it.
Ronnie Wacker: My name is Ronnie Wacker and I think the Broadwaters Cove
~s a classic case of inching pollution. We came out here about 28 years ago
to Nassau Point, across the road from Broadwaters. Our sons were just
delighted to be able to go clamming and oystering there. In an hour they
could get a bucketful.
Angelo Petrucci started to dock ~oats there. It wasn't a big deal, it was
something like 10 or 12 boats and they couldn't have been any more than
about 20 feet long. If they were longer than that they probably wouldn't
have been able to get through the shallow waters. Because I know we were
grounded a number of times and had to get out and push.
Angelo sold to Boos some years later and then there were some more boats
but it was still pretty good clamming water. From there Boos sold to the
present owners and we have noticed many more boats My understanding is
that they are entitled to 25, [3ut we see on some days as many as 35 and
that's in the water. On land there are as many as 15 to 17 or 18. And then
there are some along the sides of the banks And of course there is just no
clamming left. There are no clams, no oysters. There's nothing.
If they are asking for enlargement of the launching slip, I request that you
deny this because this is simply going to lead to bigger boats, to more
dredging, to more discharge of gasoline and to more pollution With our
Peconic Bay efforts to clean up the waters around here, think that this is
the way we should be going, not assisting people to greater pollution
efforts. Thank you.
Christine Vaccari: Hi, my name is Christine Vaccari. You've gotten a lot of
letters from me, so this is me in the flesh. I have a lot of questions which I
wrote out to bothyou Mr. Ward and you Mr. Kassner. I just want to publicly
mention the questions that all of us here have concerns about. The first
thing is that most of us here are from Nassau Farms, Nassau Point and
Broadwaters Cove Associations, so there's quite a number of families here
that are represented
There is a historical question that we all have and that is what is the
environmental impact of this marina? I have listed here a number of
documents which were written in 1984. I had many many more leading up
Southold Town Planning Board
19 June 10,1996
to 1984, but just to be concise about this hole thing, where Norman Boos
put forth appeals to have this marina expanded and to be able to bring in
more boats. In April, 1984 he withdrew his appeal and in 1988, during the
Master Plan, they approved this residentia marina to become an MI status.
So now we're all up to date. None of these residents here, that have lived
here for 30 years understand how that happened. Nobody knew that this
became 8 commercial piece of property.
My husband and I moved in last year and it looked like a residential piece of
property and in one year he has ripped down trees, it looks like a shipyard...it
looks like a gas station, actually. So he's changed the site completely. So,
there's several issues here that I would like addressed and I know everyone
here would, and that's the environmenta impact.
Well, 'm going to get into it. We have no evidence of the long
environmental statement n accordance with Section 617.D, being submitted
by the former owner, Mr. Boos, and then reviewed by the Board of Appeals
in accordance with the State Environmental Quality Review Act So, we have
nothing that we know that's on record that this piece of property was
actually really reviewed for the environmental impact.
The other thing is that we don't understand why the public opposition was
ignored. During all this time, during the 80's and then all of a sudden behind
the backs of everybody - that's how it felt - that this marina gained M1
status. Nobody really understands how that happened.
There is a drainage problem. Is drainage into the marshlands of various
boats and paints and cleaners, environmentally safe? I have a map here of
the property and I can show you where Mr. Zito's drain is and it goes right
out into the street, right underneath, right into the wetlands.
Site plan. The site has changed drastically within the last year. I have some
photographs here which are color photographs that blew up just to give
you an idea of what it looks like. Has Mr. Zito submitted a site plan? To my
knowledge he was supposed .to do that in the beginning of the year.
haven't t~eard anything and neither has anybody else here.
Mr. Zito has not complied with his promise to the Planning Board and to the
community that he would plant double rows of six foot evergreen trees to
hide the unsightliness of his boatyard.
Southold Town Planning Board
20 June 10,1996
Then there's the ~ssue of sewage. Where is the boat sewage going? Boats
having sleeping, kitchen and other facilities pollute the waterways. We don't
know what's going on with that.
And then, there's a new issue which I just found out, that we'd all like to
know is how ~s a one foot expansion of Mr. Zito's ramp approved within the
last two weeks by the Board of Trustees? have some documents here, and
I also have some chronology here of all the documents I have dating from
1978 to 1984 and we just don't know how all of this happened. It seems to
me and to everybody that I've spoken to that Mr. Boos got his zoning
change to M1 status in the beginning of 1989, he sat on the piece of
property, didn't change anything, didn't upgrade anything and then six
years ater sold his property for close to a million dollars to Mr. Zito. And
now everybody is in shock, seven years later. So, I submit this to you
Mr. Ward: Thank you very much The Planning Board is working currently
with the Town Attorney to bring Mr. Zito in for site plan. We have not been
successful on our own so we're going to now have to take a separate course
on it, going legally after him. So we wil keep you posted and you can call
into the office from time to time to see what progress we are making.
We're aware of some of the problems. Many of them should be addressed
by proper site planning and he has not addressed what he's promised to do
even last fall. So, we are aware of that. Unfortunately, we're not the judge
and jury so we are working with the appropriate Town authorities to bring
him into compliance.
George Toeth: My name is George Toeth. may say some things that the rest
of the members of the association might disagree with me on, but I've been
using that boatyard for the past 8 years. It actually was a nice yard. I think
mostly every slip is always taken. The ramp is horrible. It's actually timber.
It's short and you can't use it at Iow tide. You can only use it at high tide.
Now, this here marina think was a good marina, in the sense that Norman
took care of it. It wasn't a mess to the community. I guess I got a bill for
next year and I walked over. I couldn't believe what I saw over there. And I
think this is what everybody is opposed to. I may be wrong but'it wasn't so
much that it was Norman Boos' yard. He only ran a yard there. It was only
boats. As far as pollution goes, I don't know if it was an ~ssue. Most of them
are small boats.
But the thing I think what this group is upset about, and even am upset
Southold Town Planning Board
21 June 10, 1996
even though am a user, is the way the marina is actually going to look. It
looks a mess And it's going to be expanded. He has boats all over the
place. And think that's the problem. I will say he does not keep a tidy area
and I think that's the groups main concern As far as the ramp, I hope you
do improve the ramp because I can't use it. I have a 20 foot boat and you
can't use the ramp except at high tide. Thank you.
Mr. Ward: Just in answer to one of the other questions on the MI zone
change. The Master Plan update on that was subject to a series of public
hearings before it was changed. There were many people that did come
forward on other properties, with input on it. Truthfully, we didn't hear this
outcry at that time.
Christine Vaccari: Well, in all fairness, I also have a copy of the newspaper
article which outlines the Master [:lan actually, in Suffolk Times. I can't leave
this with you but I would love to make a copy and give it to you. I just didn't
want to inundate you with papers. And if you see this, I have 20/20 vision, I
don't need glasses, and my husband probably has 15/15, and nobody else
here could really see, and...I mean if you were looking through the paper,
what would ever make you notice that they were changing the zoning here.
Especially when there was so much public outcry in 1984 and he withdrew
~ais appeal.
I also left with you newspaper articles regarding the fact that he did
withdraw all his appeals. (change tape). If we can get somebody to make a
copy of this because this is...you can't see it.
Mr. Ward: We do have a copy of it.
Ms. Va¢cari: OK, you know then. On one hand there was a public notice but
you couldn't really see it. It's not really legible.
Ed Van Buren: Good evening. My name is Ed Van Buren I live on 6955 Bay
Ave. and we've lived out here since 1988. 1 never heard of anything about
this change in the M1 status but I'll have to say that up until this last year I
wasn't unhappy about the marina becauSe it was a sleepy little marina that
just stored boats in the water and it was no big deal.
Th~s past year when it was taken over by its new owner, when they were
storing boats, it really was a mess. They put boats alt over the place. As a
matter of fact there's a couple of boats that he's got up for sale sticking out
Southold Town Planning Board
22 June10,1996
pretty close to the road right now. Most all the boats were out of his yard
because they're in the water but there are still plenty of them in the yard
and it is a sloppy mess I guess my concern is I don't know how the rules
and regulations go with this but if he had to have an approval to store boats,
maybe you could answer that? Is that so? Even if he had an MI status yard
is he supposed to get an approval to store boats, which was never done
before?
Mr. Ward: Well, he was supposed to get approval for any changes that he
makes to a site plan, and basically we're trying to get him into compliance.
One of the things would be boat storage because there are setbacks and
buffers that are required. There's parking that's required. There's
landscaping required. And he has plar~s to expand anything that's all got to
be part of the site plan process and an environmental review.
Today, it seems as though he's trying to do everything without it and that's
what we're trying to do is bring him into conformance to come in to file a
proper site plan.
Mr. Van Buren: So in other words even just to store boats in his yard, which
was never done before, he would need a site plan approval?
Mr. Ward: It would be part of the site plan process, yes.
Mr. Van Buren: OK because my concern is that all these things have
happened and nothing has been done to deter any of that and I'm afraid
that the next thing that could happen he could start putting one of these
three or four bays upright in the yard so he could have more boats stored
there and start running a forklift around and that kind of thing, and could do
that the same way he's done just what he's done without any prior approval.
That's my concern. Thank you.
Mr. Ward: It's ours also.
Violet Romrow: I'm from Nassau Point Property Owners Association. We are
of course concerned about the impact of this marina on our homeowners
who live on Broadwaters Cove and Haywaters Cove. I counted today. There
were 35 boats in the water. There are 17 or 18 I could count from the road,
I did not go onto the property. 17 or 18 boats are being stored ana the side
yard next to his house I understand he's enlarging his shed and enlarging the
repair facilities he has there.
Southold Town Planning Board
25 June 10,1996
In addition to that, he has three boats which are stored on the creek or tied
up on the bulkhead exiting his marina to the creek to Broadwaters Cove. 've
had a question raised by a former president of the association who says that
he believes that the marina contains an underground tank of gasoline so that
he can pump gasoline. The yard, as has been stated by others, is really
unsightly. It's an eyesore in a residential neighborhood. We are very
concerned. I hope you can bring this gentleman into compliance very
quickly so that this doesn't escalate any further.
I understand that he's put an ad in the paper advertising 45 slips What ~s
the number of boats which can be stored in the water or kept in the water
in an M1 classification?
Mr. Ward: Basically it depends on how much upland parking they have. In
other words they need one parking space for each in the water slip.
Ms. Romrow: That's not available. That was also a complaint raised by Elsie
Geratechan who claims that the parking ts a real hazard, causing cars to go
over the double yellow line there I hope you can take care of it.
Mr. Ward: Let me just say that your concerns and your letters to the Town
are not unnoticed and it is being pursued. Unfortunately, there's a legal
process involved now to determine what's ultimately going to happen.
Lawrence Vaccari: My name is Lawrence Vaccari, Christine's husband. I'm
reading this because they asked me to, so I'm reading it verbatim. To whom
it may concern, and it had better be everyone, did not Know when I
bought my home in the quiet countryside that I was buying a home in an
industrial area I bought my home because of the scenery, peace and quiet
and tranquil atmosphere, which is no longer here. The noise and traffic has
transformed the area to a shipyard two-thirds of the year. You see masts
and hulls. No longer is there a water view like we once enjoyed.
Tow trucks and trailers with boats on them constantly being shuttled back
and forth. I hope someone is minding the store as to pollution of water and
a~r. I would like to know how the zoning was changed from a non-
conforming marina to an MI status without our knowledge? I am very sorry
that I am not attending the Main Rd. meeting because of a previous
commitment Yours truly, Mr. and Mrs. James Reale, 7845 Skunk Lane. Thank
you
Southold Town Planning Board
24 June 10,1996
Mr. Ward: Anyone else like to address the Board?
Gerard Conroy: I live at 6980 Skunk Lane and I was the past president of
Broadwaters Cove Association during the time Mr. Boos owned it. The last
time I saw the permits, if you will, those in the Trustees office, there were no
boats to be allowed over 24 feet. There were no boats to be stored on the
property. At one time, in order to ~)uilc~ the large house that is there now,
the marina area and adjoining property had to be combined. And as the
people before me have said, there are now many boats being stored. There
also weren't to be any repairs. Unless all of these restrictions have been
lifted, he is now in violation.
Dee Kaller: I feel like an aardvark. We've been here much longer. We live
directly across from the Broadwaters Cove Marina. I think maybe the
question that is uppermost in my mind is a matter of finances, let's put it on
the line My house and my home for about forty-some years has been
devalued by what is across the street.
We have rich memories and I'm very grateful for those. But it's lean eating
from memories-of what had been. And when think of the young people
who are moving in and who will perpetuate the life that we knew, and see
this impediment, it frightens me because we seem so impotent to do
anything about it. Surely with all of the people that you have heard tonight
there must be some resolution, some backing, some valor that maybe was
overlooked because you felt no one was out there.
Well, we're there and if we can help in any way...I speak for my husband and
myself, but of course our new neighbors, all of them have a wil to do
whatever is necessary to keep this going for our grandchildren and our
children. And know that if there is some resolution or even a glimmer,
please let us know. We need it. Thank you.
Mr. Ward: Anyone else like to address the Board at this time?
DOrothy Drugen: My name is Dorothy Drugen and I live on Mason Drive in
Cutchogue, which is part of the Broadwaters Cove area. Now I just wish I
were half as vocal and verbal as the other people, but I just feel so strongly
about this issue that I'm forcing myself to get up here and speak. When you
go to look at this marina, you think it has access to the bay and it's just a
short little distance and they're out in the main water.
Southold Town Planning Board
25 June lO, 1996
But what these boats nave to do is start up with the blue smoke and
gasoline fumes and everything else and they go along Little Broadwaters
Creek - they have to pass that - they have to go past Fisherman's Beach
where Gustov Wade was denied his home. They have to pass, I think it's
called Mud Creek. There are a lot of homes and a lot of areas that these
boats that are ~ncreasing in number all the time, have to go past all of these
homes to get out into the water. Every time an engine starts up, 10,000 fish
die, the clams all croak. It's just terrible.
In 1978, when PetruccJ got his non-conforming marina status, he was not
permitted...part of the status was he was not permitted to store, 0uild or
sell boats and there were not to be any more than 35. Now it doesn't seem
fair that someone can come along and just do what he pleases, railroad his
desires over everybody else's rights, environmental and otherwise. Boos
tabled his requests 0ecause he couldn't meet the requirements for the
Board.
And this guy comes along, he's putting a shed up, expanding on the shed,
storing boats all winter up against the home that's on the adjoining parcel
which is all considered one parcel. There's the new home that Boos put up
and the marina and it's all one. Now there's got to be some Kind of
differentiation between the two.
So please look at this very carefully because it's not the marina that's on a
big open water, it's in a very secluded, quiet creek that all these boats have
to pass along to get out into the main water.
Mr. Ward: Anyone else like to address the Board this evening? If not, just in
summary, we understand your concerns We have some of the same
concerns. We are trying to bring into compliance and you can keep posted
with the Planning office to see what progress we're making.
Dorothy Drugen: Can I just ask, when you say bring him into compliance,
does that mean he'll be allowed to do what he has pushed his way into
doing or will you force him to return to what was allowed when Boos had his
permission. That's our whole concern is that someone can come in and [urn
Broadwaters Cove into Cesspool Creek, that's what it will turn out to be.
He'll have gasoline, he'll have oil, who knows what all those boats are going
to throw into the water. People promise up and down that they're going to
be careful with their discard but, let's be realistic.
Southold Town Planning Board
26 June lO, 1996
Mr. Ward: What we do is, during the environmental review process all those
issues wil have to be addressed.
Charlie Mearn: I'm Charlie Mearn from Orient Point, which is a long way from
Broadwaters Cove I would suspect. Where we are concerned is the ferry.
Mr. Ward: May I just make mention of something. We are, in our work
sess on when we adjourn here, we do have the applicant here for Cross
Sound. You're welcome to stay for our work session. Obviously, once we
get into the process with them of site plan review there will be hearings and
time for public addressing of the Board
Mr. Mearn: 'd like to attend that, but let me just state it's just 11 months, or
something like that since the Town went to court to get these people in for
site plan and everything you're saying about Broadwaters Cove applies to the
ferry. They do things without 12ermission, they don't get site plan, nobody
tells them to stop, the~just keep going on and on and on and on and
nothing ever seems to get accomplished. Property values decline and if your
experience is anything like ours has been, and ours has been going for I0
years, I wish you a lot of luck, and a tot better luck than we're having in
getting the ferry under control.
Mr. Ward: Well, we do have ajudge that's in the middle of this also. Anyone
else like to address the Board in a public session, if not all is in order to
adjourn
Mr. Latham: So moved. '~
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Moved and seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr, Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting
adjourned at 8:10 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Martha A. Jones, Secretary