HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-10/18/1999PLANNING BOARD MEMBer. S
BENNETT ORLOWSKI, JR.
Chairman
WILLIAM J. CREMERS
KENNETH L. EDWARDS
GEORGE RITCHIE LATHAiVI, JR.
RICHARD G. WARD
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516~ 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Present were:
MINUTES
October 18, 1999
Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman
Richard G. Ward
G. Ritchie Latham
Kenneth Edwards
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Absent:
William Cremers
Valerie Scopaz, Town glanner
Robert G Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer
Martha Jones, Secretary
Mr. Orlowski: Good evening. I'd like to call this meeting to order. The first
order of business, Board to set Monday, November 1, lggg at 7:30 p.m. at
Southolc~ Town Hall, Main Rd., Southold, as the time and place for the next
regular Planning Board meeting.
Mr. Edwards: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Southold Town Planning BoarC
2 October 18, 1999
Mr, Orlowski: 7:30 p.m, Ginsberg Family - This proposal is to set off a 3.8
acre parcel from a 52.27 acre parcel. The 3.8 acre parcel is proposed to be
donated to the Peconic Land Trust and the remaining 48.47 acre parcel is
pending the sale of development rights to Suffolk County. The property is
IocateC on the south side of Main Road (S.R. 25) and the north side of New
Suffolk Ave., in Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-116-1-2. '11 ask if there are any
comments on this subdivision? At this time, we have not received maps
from the Health Department. There are no comments here tonight, we do
not have the maps, so I'm going to entertain a motion to hold the hearing
open until we receive the Health Department approval.
Mr. Latham: So moved
Mr. Ward: Second
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings:
Mr. Orlowski: Summit Estates- Section 4 - Section 4 of this major
subdivision isfor one 4.3739 acre lot (Lot # 33). The property is located off
Shipyard Lane in East Marion. SCTM# 1000-38-7-p?o 10 (a.k.a SCTM# 1000-
35-8-5.3). Are there any comments on Summit Estates, Section 4? This too,
we're going to hold this Rearing open because we haven't gotten the proper
information from the applicant. Ill make a motion, be it resolved that the
Planning BOard hold the fina hearing for Summit Estates, Section 4 open
until such time that conditions number 3,4, and 5 of the approval in regard
to the public hearing in accordance with the condition number 11 of the
Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions are fulfilled to the satisfaction of
the Planning Board.
Mr. Edwards: I'1 second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Southold Town Planning Board 3
Ayes: Mr. Ortowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
October 18, 1999
Mr, Orlowski: Rockcove Estates - This major subdivision is for 23 lots on
28,315 acres ocated on the north side of Middle Road (CR48); approximately
500 feet west of McCann Lane in Oreenport. SCTM# ~000-33-3-19. This
hearing was held open. I'll ask if there are any comments on this
subdivision?
Richard Pellicane: Mr. Chairman, my name is Richard Pellicane and I appear
here on behalf of the Sterling Eastern Shores Association which ~s a
Homeowners Association (HOA), representing the homeowners of the
Eastern Shores Estates sections which are located to the east and to the
west of the proposed subdivision.
My clients have serious concerns over the traffic flow which wi result in the
configuration of this application. The proposed road network connects to
Inlet Pond Road on the west and the Sound Drive road on the east and the
west. We contend that this will create unnecessary heavy traffic from the 24
new residences to be constructed in this proposed subdivision. The existing
roads are very narrow, being approximately 22 feet in width and less of
pavement, with heaw foliage, shrubs and trees running right up to the side
of the road. There is no site clearance on most corners and these roads are
appropriate and conducive for 8 smal peaceful subdivision.
We believe that the proposed subdivision taking into consideration, safety,
traffic flow, accessability for emergency vehicles such as ambulances, fire
trucks and police cars, would mandate having its access directly from the
proposed cluster of 23 lots directly to County Road 48 (C.R. 48)
There was no rationale for the current layout which does not access at all
directly to C.R. 48, even though the applicant owns frontage on that road of
approximately 98 feet in width The plat subm tted to th s Board by the
applicant's surveyor is obviously designed for the convenience of the
developer and not for the public. Namely, it m~n~mizes the length of roads
to be constructed, and this is a major consideration of course.
The surveyor conveniently plugs the cluster into the existing roads on the
subdivisions to the east and west rather than to create a proper and safe
access directly to C.R. 48. This is almost analogous of having someone plug
Southold Town Planning Board 4 October 18, 1999
into your electric box rather than getting their own main power~
There ~s no rationale or reason for this, except to save the applicant money.
The 97 feet of frontage on C.R. 48 is adequate for access. There is a pond
between the clustered lots and the 97 feet on County Road 48, but I believe
that that's a man made pond and the road could access past it to the east
or west, or even there could be dual roads one running southerly and one
running northerly, alternately on each side of that particular lot.
The plat plan has a remarkable diagram to the south where it shows an area
designated as a building area of 86,000 square feet or so. Now we question
what this is representing? Does this mean that the applicant intends to put
another building there in the future, and if so wouldn't that violate the
density requirement of the R-40 zone?
The open space area is poorly chosen and (inaudible) to the benefit only of
the applicant. There is no benefit to the public of this open space area
because it cannot gain access. Perhaps some of the adjoining owners will be
able to enjoy the 5-'1/2 acres, but the public will not, and therefore that
negates the value of the open space completely.
We suggest that that open area be traversed by a road running from C.R. 48
up to the cluster for safety reasons and so that the public can use and enjoy
the open area
There's another question on the southerly part of the cluster map where the
surveyor shows that there are 7.5 acres being unused, but only 5.6 acres are
going to be devoted to open space, and I believe that implies that the public
can enjoy the 5.6 acres. What happens to the other two acres? That's that
83,000 or 88,000 square foot parcel that they designate building area.
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Pellicane, just to clarify, Lot number 19 is just what it is, Lot
number 19. It's 7.5394 acres and the building area that they can build in is
only 83,000 square feet. That's one residence, that's it.
Mr. Pellicane: How do they get a building area in that 88,000 square foot
parcel?
Mr. Orlowski: That's the only area they're allowed to build anything in The
rest is to be left as open space with nothing built in it.
Mr. Pellicane: Yes, but your yield map shows the entire lot 19, which runs
from the sound down to C.R. 48 and from that it was computed a density
Southold Town Planning Board
of, I believe 23 lots.
5 October 18, 1999
What is this 86,000 square foot lot down on the
bottom? Is that in addition to that?
Mr. Orlowski: No. That line is there just to show what area you can build in
on that 7.5 acre parcel.
Mr. Pellicane: But that 7.5acre parcel is not a single and separate parcel.
That is part of the entire 10t 19.
Mr. Orlowski: No. It is lot 19, period.
Mr. Pellicane: Well, I may not have the right documents, but I have in front
of me the county tax map from the Real Property Tax Agency that shows lot
19 running from the sound down to C.R. 48. Now, if there was a subdivision,
I didn't find it in your filesl although I went through them carefully.
Mr. Orlowski: Are you talkiQg about the yield map?
Mr. Pellicane: I'm talking about what we began with which was tax lot 19.
Mr. Orlowski: There is no lot 19, I mean 19 is part of the subdivision. Of the
23 lots, this lot ~s number 19.
Mr. Pellicane: I understand that sir. You have 23 lots clustered to the north.
Those are clearly going to be residential plots
Mr. Orlowski: A total of 23 lots
Mr. Pellicane: That are going to be considered to be granted by this Board as
part of the subdivision based upon the yield map. Now where does this
86,000 square foot plot come in?
Mr. Orlowski: That's the area that we're designating that can be built n.
Mr. Pellicane: So that will be another plot?
Mr. Orlowski: No, that's still one lot, but this lot's covenant is the open space
is the 5.6 acres and this area that is marked as building area, and it's just a
dotted line, but it's still ail part of the same lot.
Mr. Pellicane: But then what you are creating is 24 parcels, instead of 23?
Mr. Orlowski: No, 23.
Sour:hold Town Planning Board 6 October 18, 1999
Mr. Pellicane: Wel, how can you have 23 plus one on the bottom? 23 plus
is 24.
Mr. Orlowski: No, this is still one lot. This is one lot. It's not number I, it's
not number 23 It's lot number 19 out of 23
Mr. Pellicane: Isn't that part of the entire parcel? How can you...Well, maybe
Chuck Cuddy can...
Charles Cuddy: Mr. Chairman, I represent the applicant. I think that there is a
complete misunderstanding of what we're ooking at. Lot 19 on the tax map
is the entire ~)arcel. Lot 19 on the subdivision map is a lot that shows 7.5
acres Of that, 2 acres, or approximately 83,000 feet is used for one building
envelope. That's ali that's being shown. If you want to look at this map,
maybe that clears up..
Mr. Pellicane: Well, how dic~ this lot number 19 that you're describing, how
did that come into being?
Mr. Cuddy: Well, why don't you just look at the map and if that confuses
you...
Mr. Pellicane: But how did it come into being? Was it subdivided by this
Board?
Mr. Orlowski: Hold it. This ~s not a debate, please address the Board. Melissa
has been involved with this s~nce 1994, I'll let her explain it.
Ms. Spiro: When we do a subdivision, we first do a yield plan. This subdivision
is n a R-40 zone, so we do a yield plan gased on the I acre zone. We have a
yield plan here, I gelieve that's what you were referring to. The yield plan
shows that as a right they can have 23 lots.
The clustered plan, they're showing all the lots clustered to the north One
of the lots is lot number 19, that's the large lot you're talking about. There
are only 23 new building lots on this subdiwsion.
Mr. Pellicane: I see.
Ms. Spiro: One lot is a larger lot, there are 22 smaller lots.
Mr. Pellicane: Now I understand what you've done. So you've selectively
taken one lot and made t four times as large as the other 22 lots, put it
$outhold Town Planning Board 7
October 18, 1999
down on the main road and plugged up the only access to the main road
from which these people could safely access C.R. 48? That's what
happened?
Mr. Orlowski: That's not what happened. Back in 1994 when the applicant
came in and we clustered this...we accepted their yield map of 23 lots, as
the code is written it's mandatory that they have to cluster. We felt, in
dealing with the County and the State before - this is a County road here
now - that they do not like us to put a lot of curb cuts onto the County
highway. As a matter of fact, they're deac set against it. They ask us to not
do that and if there is any chance that they can access anywhere else, to use
it. This laid itself out very well to put the 23 lots up to the north with two
accesses to C.R. 48, through property that was surrounded by two
subdivisions in the past. All the roads in this subdivision you can see there
are a lot of spur roads that were created when the subdivision was created
to connect all of this up now in the future. And we have laid it out that way
and it's been a long discussion and we feel that this is the best layout and it
also keeps the traffic from having another entrance onto C.R. 48, having
three in a row, you just use the same two that you Rave.
Mr. Pellicane: understand what you're saying, and I think tonight you' hear
from some of your constituents as to their idea of the advisabiliW of doing
that. 've been doing this for 40 years. This is the most unusual layout I have
ever seen in my ire and I can't imagine it being for safety or any other
consideration but for the developer to plug up 5-I/2 acres of open space,
which ~s supposed to be dedicated for the use of the public in tradeoff for
the cluster, and then to give the developer a two acre parcel on the main
road makes, I respect'fully submit, no sense. But you will Bear from other
people. I'm almost finished and then I will get off of the podium.
Incidentally, there are just a few irregularities that I would like to bring before
the Board for their consideration. One of them is that the tax map shows
the entire parcel running from the sound to C.R 48 as 19 acres. In the
Planning Board files, one of the survey plats shows it as 27.6 acres and
another one shows it at 28.3 acres. I would like to suggest that somebody
compute that area and check the surveyor.
The area is zoned R-40 AA I have not been able to ascertain from anybody
in the Town what AA means and perhaps the Planning Board should look into
that also
Part of our position of not having the subdivision plug into the existing roads
is that it will cause a lot of.traffic on those small roads and unnecessarily so
Southold Town Planning Board 8
October 18, t999
and I think that a fine example of that is the fact that Sound Drive is the
connect to the east and to the west which does nothing more but have the
traffic flow back to the subdivisions because Sound Drive ends several
hundred yards to the east of the easterly terminus of the subdivision and a
little bit further going in a westerly direction. There is nothing to be gained
by that connection except to degrade and ruin the subdivisions that are
already in existence.
There ~s a letter, or two letters in the file from the Town Engineer that states
that the Town has title to the bed of the roads and the two adjoining
subdivisions, but had a title examination made at Riverhead and we were
unable to find any evidence that Inlet Pond Rd. to the east of Green Lane
belongs to the Town and therefore if you approve this subdivision you may
find that they can't access through that road in any event.
To sum up, there is no compelling reason why this subdivision should plug
into the existing roads and there is every reason 'n the world why there
should be direct access to C.R. 48 and that reason s public safety and public
safety. Thank you
Howard Mulhall: i'm Howard Muihall, Mr. Chairman and members of the
Board. For 27 years have lived on Inlet Pond Rd. in Greenport, with one
other home. To say the least, with all due respect to the Town of Southold,
Inlet Pond Rd. can only be described as a road one grade above a dirt road.
took the time the other day and went to the widest part of my road. It is
24 foot wide. There is no curbing. There is no drainage system. The road
itself, again, is basically just a road. Basicatl'y 1 would say to you honestly that
the Village of Greenpor[, God forbid if they ever needed a hook and ladder
which I doubt they would need to come to my neighborhood, they could
not turn the corner to get the truck down some of our roads.
Green Hill Lane, measured that That was approximately 24-26 feet wide.
Moore's Lane north, the main thoroughfare, again went to the widest part,
took out my tape, 24-26 feet wide. If you notice Green Hill Lane - and by the
way with all due respect, if you have no~ walked our area I encourage you to
do so, to see what we're talking about - Green Hill Lane starts down, it's
probably longer than the Indianapolis Speedway from the bottom to the top.
Moore'S Lane intersects with Inlet Pond Rd.
Constantly...we've all raised questions - over the years we have complained
about the speedway. What do we do? Do we ask you to put speed bumps
in to slow the traffic down? What we have we've done in the 27 years I've
been here. We have had one word which is important to everyone
Southold Town Planning Board 9
October 18, 1999
nowadays - quality of life. That's mportant to everyone. They're
campaigning in this town on quality of life. Everywhere you go, quality of
life.
What about our quality of ire? This is what's happened in the 27 years since
I've been there. Mr. Schembri to my west. Mr. Schembri put up 16 homes,
access Moore's Lane, presently, this is to the east of us. Rockcove, looking at
23, possibly. I calculated if they put up 23 homes, we'll have presently,
presently if 23 were built tomorrow, 97 homes accessing off Rt. 48. What
do I see when I go To Rt. 48, wait for minutes. Why? Because of the New
London Ferry, which is a major complaint of this Town, does not allow us to
go because they're accessing hundreds of cars at a time. So I sit there.
Moore's Lane north, on Rt. 48, accident after accident. Maybe I'll take the
time and go to the Town and find out how many accidents have occurred
So, if we put in 23 more homes that will be 97 homes approximately, with
dozens of sites still empty. Don't look at the year 2000. Look at the year
2010. You might have 150 Domes ~)eing accessed by Moore's Lane qorth,
Inlet Pond or Green Hill.
I ask you, go anywhere in Southold Town and find one or two roads that
have 150 potential homes. I don't think you're going to find it. Again, the
question I'm asking is consideration. If you have not, please go up and look
at the area. See what you're going to see. Respect our right to quality of
life We're asking for Rockcove people...no one disputes Domes being built
in this community, but at least...you know one thing noticed when Ifirst
saw this? I'm no engineer, far from it
said to myself, my God, hey this guy is saving himself a bundle. He doesn't
put roads in, he doesn't put drains, he doesn't put curbs, he doesn't lay
asphalt. I'm a nobOdy. I'm a 31 year veteran of Suffolk County Probation
Department. If I can see it as a novice, this guy struck it rich. He has Santa
Claus and Easter Bunny all rolled inone So, again, not to make light of it. I
don't mean that. With all due respect to this Board, it's a hard decision I'm
fighting it because I live there and I guarantee you if it was your property
you'd be trading places with me fighting it also
Edgar Burr: My name is Edgar Burr. used to own that property up there,
not to brag about it or anything else. That pond was there when I was born
and it was a natural pond, for your information And I've had it dug out
there one time and made it so the drainage would come in on the south side
and I had a hump across and pipes going through and so it wasn't (inaudible)
because you used to have a lot of water that would come over from
Southold Town Planning Board 10 October 18, 1999
McCann's property, it used To run across the back of his property and cross
my property into the pond. (change tape).
I've seen that property when it was al (inaudible) years ago. All clear
farmland. But when you're talking about other access, over by (inaudible)
they had an opening there it could have been a road to the North Rd, 48,
but no, they didn't want that, so that's why they ouilt I don't know how
many houses over there just lately. And I can see all this stuff. To me, it
doesn't make me feel any better because I can remember how nice it was
when it was wide open spaces. There's probably other things I should say,
but it's better off I don't say Too much.
James Casey: Good evening. My name is James Casey. own a home at 475
Moore's Lane north and have for the last 16 years. In addition to being a
homeowner there, I happen to be the President of the Sterling Eastern
Shores Association and I come before you tonight to appeal from that
organization that you reconsider the possibility of opening up C.R. 48 to
handle these 23 projected homes. We have, as the previous speakers have
said, as many as almost 100 homes right now with the potential for at least
30 or 40 more in plots that can be sold.
We have children who live on these streets. We have grandchildren who
come and visit them and we just feel that it's too great an encumbrance to
ask Moore's Lane north to support any additional traffic especially when
there ~s an alternate approach. And we believe that the alternate approach
's a direct access to C.R. 48. And I'd like, with your permission, to submit to
you some 53 petitions from homeowners in the area who have protested
this and would like to get it into your hands.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments?
Falstos Simador: My name is Falstos Simador. I have a question of detail. On
the posting of the initial hearing it was posted in the area, the blue cards. It
stated on those cards that the property was 28.3 acres. I went to the tax
assessors office and it's 24.1. This gentleman was talking about two other
figures. I'd like to know what the actual size of that property is?
Mr. Orlowski: Well, the survey map shows 27.6921 acres and this is stamped
by a surveyor. The tax maps and anything else you may read are just that,
just tax maps that are only a close guess.
Everyone talking.
Southold Town Planning Board
11 Oc'cober 18, 1999
Mr. Oriowskh Well, the surveyor is Howard Young and it was February 27,
1996.
Mr. Pellicane: Does the tax map and the survey agree?
Ms. Spiro: The tax maps numbers are..
Mr. Pellicane: Not the number, the acreage.
Ms. Spiro: The acreage on the tax map, the Rea Property Tax Maps, I don't
think I've ever seen one that matches a surveyor.
Unknown: Can you gtve us a little orientation as to why that is?
Mr. Orlowski: It's always been like that. They never match.
Unknown: That's not good enough. I'd like to know why that is.
Mr. Orlowski: The tax map is not done and stamped by a surveyor. A
surveyor, when he surveys the property, stamps this map guaranteeing that
acreage. Mr. Young has done that and that's what's here and his license is
on the inc. The tax assessor or whoever puts that number in, that's just a
number to him. think you'd all be surprised if you went and looked at your
acreage at the assessor's's office. It's going to be more or less than you
mig[% think it is on the survey. Any other comments.
Carol Girlie: I drove al the way out from Huntington and I have a house on
Sound Drive and drove out after work tonight and I cannot understand that
something that would have such a volume impact in traffic and safety - and
I'm in the transportation business - that the people in this neighborhood
were not notified that the Board was contemplating dumping a 25% instant
increase in traffic volume into a small neighborhood with narrow roads.
I can't comprehend this. I cannot understand (inaudible)...I heard
comments, we decided, we decided We decided for who? Who are the we
that decided for us? We don't want this. We will figqt it. We are hoping
you are listening to us tonight because we do no accept it. It's
unacceptable.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments?
F. Simador: I'm back again I understand that there was a well dug on this
property for water content?
Southold Town Planning Board
Mr Orlowski: Test wells, yes.
12 October 18, 1999
Mr. Simador: And what was the finding? What did the Board find on this
test well? Is it potable water?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes. They have Health Department approval here for single and
separate.
Mr. Simador: Are we sure that the water supply is potable on this parcel?
Mr. Orlowski: All the lots are going to have to have single and separate
wells...
Mr. Simador: That's not my question. My question is, if somebody buys a
plot and intends to build, are they guaranteed that they'll have potable
water because they're going to have to drill their own well, (inaudible)
outside, they have to drill their own well.
Mr. Cuddy: Can I answer, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes,
Mr. Cuddy: This application went before the Suffolk County Department of
Health Services and has approval both for wells and for public water. As you
all know, public water is in the streets that are parallel to the subdivision. We
have a contract with the Suffolk County Water Authority (SCWA) to hook into
the public water. That public water will ultimately be charged, that is placed
into the mains that are there.
In the interim if we do not yet charge the mains even though we're paying
for them, we also have the privilege of having wells sunk and we have gone
to the extent of having tests made, and the water is potable and Suffolk
County Department of Health Services, the health department, has approved
the potable water at this site. I hope that answers the question.
Inaudible Markakis: Good evening. I'm (inaudible Markakis). 'm here because
one of the residents of the area is sick and he asked me to represent him
tonight and voice his concerns regarding the subject matter that we are
talking about tonight. I don't have a property there, I'm a permanent
resident of Southold, but I'm s part time resident of the area by virtue of
fishing partnersh ps and many people and compatriots that we socialize with.
Andreas Tamboulias and his family with four young children from I-'1/2 to 3-
% arising concerns on the question of safety and at the same time of the
Southold Town Planning Boara 13 October ']8, 1999
quality of life which has adversely affected by the projected egress on the
tiny ittle cul-de-sac in the area.
The paramount issue here is the human life and as a little man I walk with
scale and I put on the one side of the scale human ire and I question and
challenge anybody to tell me what price they put on the other side of the
scale? There are many young children I have noticed throughout the
summer and throughout the winter. I go up and down the roads every
other day, there are many people connected with the Hellenic American
Taxpayers Association. I'm the office boy there, otherwise known as
Chairman of the Board, and I make my rounds to observe any unusual
conditions in the area and notify people concerned.
So, I'm familiar with the traffic conditions and they were well described by
the previous speaker. I cannot add anything to that but impress on the issue
of safety and human life Safety and human life is also involved by the use
of the North Road, but there we have other ramifications and other steps
can be taken to offset dangerous conditions. On the roads, Green Hill and
Moore's Lane going up and down and a couple of side roads, and mind you
the whole stretch of the road is only less than perhaps half a mile long and
there are a lot of young Kids there, so on behalf of my friend and his family,
and the other families across the street, Mr. Pappas, Mr. Ch palls on the side,
Mr. Nikkas on the south side, I plea the Board to consider very seriously the
concerns of the people and especially the factor, human life and safety.
Thank you very much
(Inaudible): 1400 Green Hill Lane. On a beautiful day, sunny, from Orient
Point you can see the Nuclear Plant is not so far away. It's very, very near.
Now we Know that accidents have been in this country with the 3 Mile Island
(inaudible) and recently when an accident in Japan where they found that
there was in the air radiation for days and weeks. Now what happens if
something like that happens in this area? You're going to ~ave two exits to
get out? With the panic (inaudible). It happens in other places, it might
happen over here too.
Unknown: You show this sign here and you say building area, right of the exit
to 48. How are these peoole going to get to the (inaudible) if there is no
road there? What Is the easement for? What is the meaning?
Mr. OrlowsKi: On Lot 197
Unknown: Yes,
$outhold Town Planning Board 14 October 18, 1999
Mr. Orlowski: That's an Open Space Easement on Lot 19.
Unknown: For what reason?
Mr. Orlowski: For open space, to be left like that. There's a pond and this is a
Iow area in here also.
Unknown: For whom? it for the deer or something like that?
Mr. Orlowski: t's an environmentally sensitive piece.
Unknown: I take care of the deer everyday, they don't have to go over there.
feed them, I give them water. (inaudible)
Phil Calaharas: Mr. Chairman, my name is Phi Calaharas from 1150 Sound
Drive. Speaking of quality of life this Town is continuously reminding us. If
you own a house on 1150 on the water, and somebody puts a community
beach next to your property and an easement next to your Iot.,.for the life
of me...and these beople need a road on the bluff. You go there tomorrow.
'11 take you there tomorrow to see the concrete and the garbage that's
dumped down there to make a landing. Do I [qave to pay for that? You're
giving them the OK Why would you give them the OK? pay taxes. I'm
here since 1990 for that reason, because it's a beautiful area, and you want
to destroy it by giving these people the right to do anything that they want?
am sorry if sound upset, but many people are here If you are going to
make a community beach, where are they going to park those cars? We're
having a problem now with 67 steps. We have beer parties everyday, the
police are called. You're going to make another one n front of my house? I
ask you please look at this. I'm not asking for anything. I'm not against any
development. I'm for developmenT. 'm in real estate myself and we're
(inaudible) people, in the city. But this sir, I haven't seen anything like this
Thank you
Howard Zehner: Good evening Melissa, Ben, everyone. My name is Howard
Zehner. I own Brick Cove Marina. bought a home on Moore's Lane north in
1986, moved in in 1988. Wanted to get away from people knocking on the
door down at the marina where lived. I wanted a nice quiet neighborhood.
The neighborhood is quiet but I don't see it staying that way with due
respect to the projected plan.
We had an association with covenants until I guess 10 or 15 years ago for
some reasons we lost that but Mr. Casey, the President of our association,
tonight counted the number of homes and lots that are fed by Moore's Lane
Southold Town Planning Board 15 October 18, 1999
north and it totaled 94. And Mr. Schembri had built a road called Willow
Drive right to our left and has put in '12 to 16 homes. I know it's '12, there
may De 4 lots, I heard 'i2, I heard 16.
Unknown: 16
Mr. Zehner: Prior to our losing our covenants and deed for some obscure
reason, we understand that proJect was to be fed off C.R. 48. Instead we
picked up those additional '12-16 homes in addition to the 94 homes and lots
that we have and we're getting up...94 and 12 or 94 and 16 (inaudible) 110
homes and lots and this is an awful lot to ~)e fed by Moore's Lane north. It's
too much traffic. It just can't handle it.
Something that hasn't been brought up in addition to the two spurs, one on
Inlet Lane, on one Shore Drive, going over to the new development, is
Homestead Way, which is the first street off Moore's Lane north. That goes
into this two acre lot that we've been talking about that can be built on, but
there's no talk of a road going from Homestead Way, that it would have to
come in the way it's presently laid out from Homestead Way...you know
what I'm talking about, right...into that two acre building lot which is
additional traffic. You don't see it when you first look at the map, you don't
see the traffic into that two acre lot, whether it's one home or two homes,
or I don't know.
But, we're not saying that we have ours, the rest of you people get lost, stay
back west. We're saying, if you're going to do something do it without
inconveniencing the people on your left and on your right. You have 92 plus
feet of frontage on Rt. 48 and other entrances to 48. Convince the County
it's the sensible way to go. They have the property, they have the access,
this is not this property is locked away from the Main Road where they have
no access. They have a piece of property there that's going to be used for
what purpose? That so-called 92 foot spur, I call it, serves no purpose
whatsoever. And as far as the pond goes, I've seen the pond several times.
It's not a large pond, it's more of a sump that catches water and there's
room to put a road 75 feet away which the Trustees require, away from that
pond, come up off Rt. 48.
I don't think I'm being unreasonable I don't thinkthese people are. Itjus~
seems to me that this ~s overkill, much overkill, to let this go through the way
it's planned. Thank you.
Mci Norden: My name is Mci Norden and I live at '1550 McCann Lane and I
think it really would be a shame if this atmosphere that is already beginning
Southold Town Planning Board
16 October 18, 1999
to be divisive between neighbors, would to be carried on into the future.
We are prepared as an association to litigate with the Town an~ also with the
developer. But that ~s using a lot of scant resources unnecessarily.
And already with bad press and with an additional divisive atmosphere it's
not a very very good thing to do to potential neighbors, people that will
have to live near each other and together for the next 20, 30, 40 or 50
years. These people will be our neighbors and this plan does not encourage
neighborliness. It already has encouraged initial divisiveness and would like
to encourage everyone on the Planning Board to consider that, the bad
press, the cost of litigation, the cost to the developer, the cost to the Town
and also the cost to the property owners.
So we're the people that essentially you represent and taxation without any
Kind of representation is not something that anyone from this association is
going to stand for.
Unknown: Good evening. My neighbors have been so eloquent and don't
want to be redundant. I've been up in Eastern Shores for 33 years and
think any of you gentlemen and adies, if going up there, just walk around
and walk across Moore's Lane north and assume that you live there and you
saw this development going up that has the access and t~e means to
enter...we're not against the development...we're saying, they're building a
nice house, put doors in
I got this in the mail, it was a freebie, "Lets Talk Southold" and on the bottom
it sums it up beautifully, winning the fight to preserve Southold. We're 100
some odd homeowners. One little road? How about preserving our Eastern
Shores? (change tape)
Christine Anderson: Good evening, I'm Christine Anderson, I live on Sound
Drive. I'm looking at correspondence here from the Suffolk County
Department of Health Services, Division of Environmental Quality. I have a
few questions which I would just like to pose and have the Board respond to
them along those lines. One, findings and research continued so that real
estate appraisal for the property provided to the (inaudible) Applicant's
(inaudible) for a variance request is financial hardship, I'd like to know what
that variance was, so we could hold that for a response please.
Second question, determination. It was a determination of 3-0 to use
temporary on-site wells subject to the following conditions. All lots will be
required to have individual test wells prior to approval of (inaudible). Any lot
which does not meet the quality water standards shall not be built upon until
$outhold Town Planning Board
public water is available.
the prospective?
17 October 18, 1999
Is this going to be made absolutely crystal clear on
Still the issue of the fire dep~artment access has not been answered to my
satisfaction. Precisely Row the fire department ~s going to ge~ in there? So
that's question number three.
Question number four deals with (inaudible) to the pond being acceptable.
It says applicants should make arrangements with the Village of Greenport
for payment of public water connection costs or an escrow account
acceptable to the department which contains equivalent (inaudible) shal be
established prior ~o granting subdivision map approval. I'd like to know was
this done and if that's the case, who is going to establish the escrow
account and how does this square with the hardship claim?
The next question, a covenant wil be placed on each lot, which prohibits the
transfer of any lots prior to installation of water dry mains and without an
acceptable test well. Further the covenant shall require that (inaudible)
to connect to public water when it becomes available and shall note that
connection costs will be incurred. By whom? By the developer or the
purchaser, who may or may not be suspecting of that?
come back to question number six which is drainage. The topography of
the land in Rockcove Estates and the neighborhoods to the east and west is
such that there is a serious issue as to how stormwater runoff will be
contained. Requiring the developer to cost of performance bond is not
adequate assurance that existing homes will not be flooded in the future.
And finally, my question is the beach area location, the proposed location for
the HOA beach access area is ~nappropriate. The beach area is next to the
existing neighbors, rather than in the middle of the new subdivision This
means that it is less accessible to the residents of Rockcove Estates thereby
encouraging the residents to drive to the beach area and I would like to
(inaudible) that there is no provision for off-street parking for this recreation
area. 'd like to have these questions responded to by the Board in the order
which I proposed them. Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: I'm not that good that I can remember every question, but ...
Ms. Anderson: What was the variance which was requested on the basis of
financial hardship?
Mr. Orlowski: Do you want to answer that, Mr. Cuddy?
Southold Town Planning Board
Mr. Cuddy: Financia
18 October 18, 1999
hardship variance that we received at the Board rewew
which the Health Department has, that Board when you have a problem with
getting public water, and if you'll note this was Oreenport Water District
originally, it's now Suffolk County Water Authority...
Ms Anderson: know that, 'm aware of that.
Mr. Cuddy: Well, [et me finish explaining, in order to get a variance, a
variance being that there was no public water available to us ~)ecause the
mains won't be charged initially, we had to go before this Board of Review.
The Board of Review has as a requirement that you show a financial
hardship The hardship would be that we couldn't sell our property unless
we could use well water.
We showed potable wells, we got a variance. That is the variance that you're
talking about. We not only got the variance but we didn't have to have an
escrow to answer one of your later questions because we paid over S50,000
to SCWA to install mains. We are going to have both mains and wells at this
site. So one way or another we're going to have water. That I think answers
at least part of your questions.
Ms. Anderson: One of the questions had been with regard to the escrow
amount acceptable, how is this going to be maintained and who is going to
be putting up this escrow...
Mr. Cuddy: There is no escrow because we paid the money. In other words,
the escrow was in lieu of paying money for the pipes. We paid money, we
have a contract with the SCWA. We paid the money for the p~pes to be
installed.
Ms Anderson: And how much was that escrow?
Mr. Cuddy: The escrow was not established, we paid the money.
Ms. Anderson: How much was that?
Mr. Cuddy: We paid over S50,000.
Ms. Anderson: To Suffolk County...
Mr. Cuddy: That's right.
Ms. Anderson: Water Authority?
Southold Town Planning Board
Mr. Cuddy: That's right.
19 October 18, 1999
Ms Anderson: n light of that, when are the pipes going to be put in?
Mr. Cuddy: When are the pipes going to be put in? When we finish the
subdivision and the roads are available
Ms. Anderson: I had asked also, was this going to be made clear to a
prospective purchaser?
Mr. Cuddy: There are covenants on (inaudible) there is no question that
these people will know, and unfortunately wil have to pay both for public
water and private water.
Ms. Anderson: And that will be crystal clear to John Doe who is purchasing
the lot?
Mr. Cuddy: Well, there will be covenants. Whether that's crystal clear I think
will be up to the reader, but it should be clear.
Mr. Orlowski: And it will be placed on the map also.
Ms. Anderson: The connection costs to be incurred, by whom will this be
incurred?
Mr. Cuddy: Well initially they're incurred ~)y the developer, he has to pay
them.
Ms. Anderson: Coming back to my next question was the drainage which has
still not [3een satisfactorily responded to
Mr. Cuddy: Well l haven't responded to it because haven't had an
opportunity ~)ut what drainage...
Ms. Anderson: I nad asked the Board to respond.
Mr. Cuddy: Well, I think maybe I could be in a position or Mr. Young who is
the engineer and the surveyor.
Unknown: Well, we'd like to hear also from the Board, however, because the
question was posed to the Board.
Mr. Cuddy: I think it's the Boards meeting, not yours, but whatever they
Southold Town Planning Board
20 October 't8, '1999
want.
Mr. Orlowski: The Board goes by the surveyor, and the surveyor has stamped
and signed the map. He is a licensed engineer. He has guaranteed that
drainage and rVIr. Young don't think is about ready to lose his license
doing something that's wrong.
Ms. Anderson: Finally, the question for the Board rather than Mr. Cuddy is
my final question as to the beach area location. My question for the Board is
the proposed location for the Homeowners Beach Association to which Mr.
Calaharus made a reference. The proposed area is not in the middle of the
new subdivision which makes more sense for the residents there. Rather, it
~s off to the side from what I can see It's not acceptable and it thereby
encourages residents to drive to the beach area, and I'd like to reiterate and
I want a response from the Board on this please, that there's no provision
for off-street parking for this recreation area.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, the Board has no problem in moving the access to the
beach between .lots 2 and 3 which is right smack in the middle. We have no
problem with that. And the beach area will be...
Unknown: Where's the parking?
Mr. Oriowski: The other thing is and there will be a covenant in this
subdivision, there will be no on-street parking anywhere in this subdivision
When you use 24 foot roads, the Highway Superintendent insists on this,
there is no parking on these roads, so there is no parking area per se up
there. If they're going to get there, they are going to have to walk there.
Ms Anderson: Unfortunately (inaudible) is that people come there and start
fires right au the foot...
Unknown: They almost burned my house. Three complaints last year.
Mr. OrlowsKi: Well, like I said we're moving into the middle and we're moving
the access to the middle, there's no parking allowed on this 24 foot road...
Joe Borelli: My name is Joe Borelli, live at 1000 Green Hill Lane. I raised the
issue last week or last month, whenever it was, about the drainage of the
water and I'm not an expert and Mr. Young is an engineer, but I just finished
37 years of traffic enforcement and engineering in the New York City Police
Department, and someone at the last meeting said the ;)roposal and the
flow of the traffic would kind of recommend that 50% would go out
Southold Town Planning Board
21 October18,1999
McCann's Lane and 50% would go out Moore's Lane north
And I say to you that the two houses that would be located on the northeast
part of Sound Drive, those will be the only two cars that will go out McCann's
Lane. If you look at the map and the way it's structured, both cul-de-sacs
wil come out of Inlet Pond Rd. and down through Moore's Lane north. The
other three lots on the top of Sound Drive, they're going to come down
Green Hill Lane.
No one is going to go out McCann's Lane, possibly those two, so you not
only, don't tell me that you're going to have a 50% division of traffic You're
going to have 95-5% coming down Moore's Lane north. And if you go up
Moore's Lane north now, you're going to find a puddle of water that's going
to exist for five days because of the recent rain, 10 feet off Rt 48, it's a Iow
spot there, the water always lays there.
Because if you go up Inlet Pond Rd. and Green Hill Lane west of the
intersection another 20 feet, right down from Howie's house you're going to
see another puddle of water that's going to be there for 4 days because of
the drainage situation. The only way water drains from our development is
because of the normal topography of the land. It flows down hill
And I don't care what Mr. Young tells me, nlet Pond Rd. is not going to
accept all the water that's going to flow off Inlet Pond Rd. anc~ then make
that turn around and wind up right in front of my house. There's no
provision. You don't tell me what kind of drainage there's going to be, you
don't tell me how many sewers are going to be there. There's no way of
knowing how that water...but he says there's going to be no water coming
down Inlet Pond Rd. into Green Hill Lane. But I take his word because he's an
expert. Then please take my word as an expert for 37 years n traffic
enforcement. Thank you
Edward Sevan: 'm Edward Sevan, I live at 925 rvlcCann Lane and I have just
one question about the water situation. If they're not going to charge the
mains that are coming into the new section to be built, what are they going
to do to provide hydrant system for fire protection?
Mr. Orlowski: They'll have to provide a firewell.
Mr Sevan: Is that in the plans to provide a firewelI?
Mr. Orlowski: I think there's two in the bond estimate...one.
Southold Town Planning Board
22 October 18, 1999
Mr. Sevan: Some departments on the north fork have tankers and such
because they don't have hydrant systems. The Greenport Fire Department
does not have a tanker system because al we have...because I'm a member
of the fire department, we deal with a hydrant system. So mean if they're
going to put in a hydrant well, well that's all wel and good, [gut I didn't see
anything there.
Mr. Orlowskh Way, way back there was a letter written to the Board of
Wardens and that's what they recommended. Either one well or the
hydrants.
Mr. Sevan: So that will be taken care of?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes
Mr. Sevan: OK, thank you.
Unknown: Just a question about what he was talking about When they
recommended a well, did they recommend a well for this design?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes
Unknown: One well?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes,
Unknown: For 23 homes?
Gus Parakis: Good evening. My name is Gus Parakis, live at 1130 Green Hill
Lane which is right next to a newly built house from the previous speaker,
Mr. Borelli. (Inaudible) should build a beautiful house in 6 to 8 months. The
point I'm trying to make is perhaps Green Hill Lane, if this comes to fruition,
will be coming right next to Joe's lot right next to him and I'm only 90 feet
away.
Like I mentioned to you earlier, I have this house for 27 years. 27 years and
28 summers, if you can figure that out. I built it in 1972, in June. My three
children, five grandchildren would ge coming to Greenporc, not only from
1972, from 19:60-62. And the reason we come out here is because number
one, relaxation because of the area, but now I see that we're going to build
this cluster of homes and they will be going directly in front of our houses
and having trucks and everything going back and forth. I don't know how
long this project is going to last, I'm not a betting person. But I can certainly
Southold Town Planning Board 2:5
October 18, 1999
say to you it's going to take anywhere from two to three years to finish this
particular project. Five years. I'm g~ving you the benefit of the doubt.
I'm a former ~)ank executive. I worked in the banking industry for, I don't
want to tell you, at least 35 years, and I know Mr. Kanas that came originally
from out here, from North Fork Bank, but that's besides the point, I'm not
going to say that. But what I'm trying to say perhaps is the fact that the
inconvenience and going in there for this duration of time, where our
children and grandchildren now come in there and now all of a sudden they
have this kind of an environment.
And that's what I've got to say. I think you should really sincerely think
about this how to come into that area and I recommend it and 1 firmly
believe it should come through Rt. 48. I'm here 27, 28 years, I don't know
how many people are here as long as me, maybe some, but I know when
that area was not too many houses at that point and I'm very upset over
this, to be honest with you.
John McCully: Good evening, my name is John McCuily, I live at 585 Moore's
Lane north. 've only been here in the subdivision for one year, but one of
the first things I noticed was when it rained, even moderately, there was a
torrent of water running down my block from north to south. As the
gentleman said before, everything runs down toward 48. When it rains
heavily the street basically becomes a r~ver. One car can go up the street or
down the street. There is no way that two cars can go safely. That's a safety
issue, it's a senous safety issue. All these cars, it's going to be a real
problem. That's it, thank you.
Candice McCully: I'm Candice McCully, Iive at 585 Moore's Lane north. Our
home was built in 1968 by my parents originally, the second house as you go
in Moore's Lane north and you do see the traffic. Everything that Howie
Mulhaul said way back in the beginning is absolutely the truth. I hear tires
squealing on 48 for the deer, trying not to hit them. Seven o'clock on a
Sunday morning, it's incredible.
There are accidents on the corner of Moore's Lane north and Moore's Lane
and 48ona regular basis. It's narrow, the streets are narrow, it's a really
nice neighborhood. People take care of the yards; a lot of it is left natural.
Some of our lots are not built on yet. You do not have a lot of space to get
through there in 24-26 feet roadway for your fire trucks, your emergency
vehicles. There is an elderly man, there are elderly in the neighborhood, they
do require a rescue from time to time.
Scut:hold Town Ptanning Board 24
October 18, 1999
There's a gentleman across the street from me who is not well. They come
to pick him up on the bus, he's in a wheelchair. It takes space, you can't get
around that vehicle When you Nave this large vehicle picking up the
gentleman. You couldn't get a rescue truck down there at that moment.
You couldn't get a fire truck down there at that time. You can't make that
corner.
Go through there, try it. Take a fire truck and see if you can get through
that corner without a couple of maneuvers, it's not going to happen and
you're going to have., at some point in the future a lot more of our lots will
be built on. I think only three ~n our entire subdivisior, are for sale. As far as I
know everything else is owned. When you get homes on every single lot and
our subdivision and the subdivision to the west of us, you get all those
vehicles, all those people, you're not going to be able to have the safety
that's necessary.
Everything is going to come out on Rt. 48 all in that one corner that's
already a bad corner. There are accidents there on a regular basis And ike
you said the traffic with the ferry, you can time it. You cannot get out. You
can wait there five minutes You cannot get out.
If that was my father having a heart attack or a medical problem and t was
trying to get somebody to the hospital or get a rescue truck in I would [De
really concerned with the access The neighborhood, I don't have a problem
with it going in, but I do nave a problem with it going ~n through us. It
should have it's own access to 48 just for their own safety. They're not
going to be able to get that truck through us to get to them when they
need it. Go up to the sound and over, it's not going to happen.
Curt Davis: Good evening. Curt Davis. 215 Green Hill Lane, I'm going to step
in this a little bit think, but I work for the Highway Dept., Southold Town,
and i'm an ex-chief of the Greenport Fire Department, and I can assure you
that no matter what goes up there, we'll get to you It might take us a while
to get back out of there, but we'll get there I just don't want to see this
turning into a let's drag the fire department into it fiasco, because I've been
down that road already.
The drainage of our neighborhood is that there is none. Now I realize that
this is going to fall on me a little bit but there is not except for in the new
section on Willow Lane, one single drain on any of those roads up there. So
when it does rain, it starts on Sound Drive and barrels down the road, keeps
on coming, comes around the corner by Homestead Way, splits two or three
times across the road, goes down around the corner keeps on going, goes
Southold Town Planning Board 25
October 18, 1999
across Moore's Lane north, keeps on going and goes down into that nice
little area that everybody calls Little Swamp Pond. So if there's somebody
worried about that ittle pond in the middle of the other lot, maybe you
ought to send a couple of Trustees to look for a couple of spotted
salamanders down at the other (inaudible).
As I've seen tonight, there's,ust so many people worried about the traffic up
and down their roads. When Mr. Borelli built his house, those Town roads
got lorn up. That's with one house, It's not his fault, but if you're going to
pour concrete for a foundation, those trucks are heavy and they tore the
hell GUi of those roads then. So now we're going to have concrete trucks
coming in day after day after day and I wonder is the Town prepared to foot
the bil to fix the Town roads?
And Inlet Drive, the same thing, it's like a sidewalk. There's nothing to it.
And I think a lot of these people have a legitimate complaint. I myself, I
would Pe (inaudible), but just from my heart as a member of the fire
department I have to come up and say that no matter what the fire
department will always get there. We might have to answer for running over
somebodies lawn on the way out, but we will get there. Thank you.
Bill Saltakis: My name is Bill Saltakis, I'm the owner of Lot 147 on Green Hi
Lane, that's 200 Green Hill Lane. I think the crux of the matter is safety.
Anyway you look at it, safety is the issue and I think everyone here is crying
the same (inaudible). My neighbor across the street, Curtis, just mentioned
about the fire department and he's right, the fire department will get there
come hell or high water, but response time will be affected (change tape) if
there is a problem (inaudible) somebody cannot get through on Moore's
Lane north.
I hope that it's not me or anyone of my neighbors that needs the fire
department to come there because if there is a problem getting there, yes
they'll get there, but the house wil be gone by the time they get there.
More seriously t~ough, if there is an emergency vehicle someone's health
needs, again response time is very critical because the problem With Moore's
Lane north, they're going to be delayed and every minute counts when
someone is n need of emergency.
You mentioned earlier that the State or the County is against opening 48?
Mr. Orlowski: No, the County does not want us to put any additional curb
cuts onto 48 where other curb cuts presently exist.
Southold Town Planning Board 26 October 18, 1999
Mr. Saltakis: Are they curb cuts or street openings?
Mr. Orlowski: Street openings.
Mr. Saltakis: Others exist? They don't want you or they object...what is the
situation?
Mr. Orlowski: They object.
Mr. Saltakis: They don't live there. They object you say. Is there a law on
this? Is it a written law that they're objecting or...
Mr. Orlowski: No, it's a County highway and they can say yes or no to any
curb cut.
Mr. Saltakis: Based on what, sir? Traffic counts?
Mr. Orlowski: Well, don't know what they're going to base it on.
Mr. Saltakis: What have they based the objection on then?
Mr. Orlowski: Too many ingress and egress so many feet apart creates a
problem.
Mr. Saltakis: What is the minimum that they (inaudible)?
Mr. Orlowski: Well, right now I hear a lot that it's tough to get on...
Mr. Saltakis: What is the minimum that they want?
Mr. Orlowski: A minimum?
Mr. Saltakis: Yes
Mr. Orlowski: They probably don't want any.
Everyone ta King.
Mr. Saltakis: (inaudible) the distance Between blocks, do they not?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Saltakis: What is it?
$outhold Town Planning Board 27 October 18, 1999
Mr. Orlowski: There's not a set distance.
Mr. Saltakis: Oh, it's arbitrary?
Mr. Orlowski: Well, I'm sure that if there wasn't other accesses they would
look at it a lot differently.
Mr. Saltakis: You mean if the access was a mile away we'd be alriglqt?
Mr. Orlowski: No, I said it they thought there was no access, then they would
have to have an access. But if there are, like in this case, two accesses...
Everyone talking.
Unknown: Moore's Lane north No one is going to use McCann Lane. Have
you people been out there?
Mr. Orlowskh Yes.
Unknown: You're sure?
Mr. Orlowski: Oh yes, many times. This has been here since 1994. There was
a preliminary hearing in 1995.
Mr. Saltakis: Wasn't there a previous subdivision plan on this lot?
Mr. Orlowski: n 1994 it's the same one.
Mr. Saltakis: The same one?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Saltakis: Did it have an access on 48 then?
Mr. Orlowski: No. Never.
Mr. Sattakis: When the property was initially subdivided did it show the same
street system?
Mr. Orlowski: Initially? It hasn't been subdivided.
Mr. Saltakis: It hasn't?
Sour:hold Town Planning Board
28
October t8, 1999
Mr. Orlowski: No.
Mr. Saltakis: It was never subdivided?
Mr. Orlowski: This it right here.
Mr. Saltakis: How did they get in on the half acre zoning?
Mr. Orlowski: It's R-40 and it's clustered so they're allowed to cluster down.
So they're allowed to cluster down to 20,000 but they made larger lots.
Mr. Saltakis: Isn't the zoning now 2 acre lots?
Mr. Orlowski: Not here, this is still R-40.
Mr. Saltakis: Stil R-407 Well again, I hope you honorable Board really thinks
about what all the people are saying here tonight and put yourselves in our
place. Make believe one of you own a house on Moore's Lane north because
that's going to take the brunt of this development. I live on Green Hill Lane
and I don't think I'm going [o see as much traffic going through there as the
people on Moore's Lane north and nlet Pond Rd. They (inaudible). Those
roads are totally inadequate for the additional traffic. With the exception of
48 and Moore's Lane north, they're ridiculous
God forbid there is an emergency and it gets blocked off, because the only
other way you have is McCann's Lane. I really hope you people think about
this before you approve this project, if you haven't already done so.
Christine Anderson: In summary, I believe that denying an access to Rt. 48 is
a gift to the developer. It is unfair to the residents and I'd like to know what
is the Board's position given the County's position. Are you going to accept
the fact that there cannot be an access? What legal action can you take, as
the Town of Southold, against the County to provide quality of life and just
plain common sense?
And number two, n closing 'd like to say that I have been there would be
one fire hydrant, t respectfully differ. That is probably totally illegal. It's
something that should be looked into by the Board if you have not
previously done so. One fire hydrant cannot suffice Thankyou
Unknown: In regards to the County roads if I'm not mistaken Mr. Davis
probably knows better than I do, the County road officially begins at the old
traffic circle, Porky's restaurant, works its way west to the end of the four
Southold Town Planning Board 29
October '18, 'i999
lane highway in Mattituck and then the Town takes over. Now, I'm not going
to belabor the point because I know we all want to get home. We start one
access road at Porky's corner, the second one becomes McCann Lane, the
third one becomes Moores Lane north. There's not another one that's west
of Town beach. It has to be because everything west is running parallel to
the sound; the Town beach motel, Soundview Restaurant. So, where would
there be "an abundance" of roads accessing onto the County? I think that
should be taken into consideration please.
Curt Davis: Just through my experience I would say definitely you're going to
need more than...even if you got a letter that says OK for a firewetl, because
Greenport deals strictly with hydrants. And also, I know it's not really a
pertinent issue because sooner or later those p~pes will be charged, but
you're going to have more than one fire hydrant.
The deal with the County, I don't know, how does that really go? I don't
want to put anybody on the spot but, they object to a curb cut, well t object
to living on the worst part of County Rt. 48 in the Town of Southold. I realize
that's not your business, ~)ut I just had to get that in.
I don't understand how that one oarcel gets twisted around. The lot 19 you
Keep referring to, the open space area, I think what my neighbor was trying
to get at before was, way back, qot 1994, but back when Eastern Shores was
farmland, woods, dairy, whatever it was, what were the original plans then?
Were the roads supposed to meet together? Was there an opening into 48
then?
Mr. Orlowski: No, but IThink if you look at the map, and I've said this a couple
of times, Sutton Place, Soundview :)rive, Inlet Pond and Homestead Way
were all supposed to cut across. And I think Mr. Daws, as a past chief, seeing
as you only have Moore's Lane and McCann's Lane to get in, connecting
these together wouldn't that help the fire protection up there if something
happened to one of these exits?
Mr. Davis: Like I said, if the only way into this...l forgot the name the road is
supposed to be ..but, that goes in Inlet, now, if the guy making that corner
coming into Moore's Lane north rolls that fire truck over, then we're going to
have a little problem. Because then you're going to have to go all the way
down, al the way up Sound Drive, all the way back around, I mean that's a
God forbid situation also.
Mr. Orlowski: What are you doing right now if something like that happens?
Southold Town Planning Board $0
October 18, 1999
Everyone talking.
Mr. Orlowski: Well, if you roll a fire truck on McCann's Lane or Moore's Lane..
Mr. Davis: It's a God forbid situation but the same thing, you go all the way
in...
Mr. Orlowski: This would relieve some of that pressure wouldn't it,
connecting Soundview Drive?
Everyone talking.
Mr. Orlowski: l'm just asking.
Mr. Davis: I understand that, just because it's that way now doesn't mean...
Mr. Ortowski: It does improve the emergency access to this...
Mr. Davis: I do think that another entrance on 48 isn't going to hurt anybody
because you know what, the more the merrier. Everybody who lives on
Sound Rd that goes up the 67 steps in the summertime, has to go over to
McCann Lane to get out of there ~)ecause with...there's no ferry, the ferry
isn't there. It's just the regular traffic with everybody coming in and out of
Main St, and everybody going east, west, you can't see, you can't get in and
out of there. So everybody who lives up there goes to McCann Lane to get
out of there. So, you Know what, let's throw another road in there and then
everybody's got four options instead of three. Thank you.
Richard Pellicane: Just very briefty I'd like to address the idea of the County
allowing a road.to come out on the County road. The County cannot deny
you the right to (inaudible) a road onto County Rt. 48, unless there are
severe safety problems such: as it ~)eing at the edge of a severe turn. I think
what the Chairman is talking about is the County Planning Commission which
disavows everything and recommends that nothing be done. I would like
everyone to know here tonight that you have an absolute right in my opinion
and I've been doing this for many years, to have that road go out to County
Rt. 48, and you don't have to sue the County as this lady said.
Howard Zehner: I just feel that we're being intimidated a little bit by this
County road situation. I have my gripes against the County road. Let's take
an example where Chapel Lane takes meets the County road There's a
sharp curve there, there's been many accidents there. There's a curve sign,
speed reduced to 40, but there's no little sign to indicate that this Chapel
Southold Town Planning Board 3'1
October 18, 1999
Lane is coming into the curve. (inaudible) coming from the east or west.
I've told the Police Department, I didn't write a letter. I told the Town Board
about it. They're frustrated actually. The County is ~mpossible to deal with,
that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. Access to a 23 home development
should have its own road. Thank you.
Unknown: From the Southold Town beach to the Island End Golf Course is a
distance of about 3-I/2 miles. There are right now three roads going off. I
don't think a fourth road would be too much for the County to deny us.
Marry Aronwright: I fee] we're trying to plead a cause or a circumstance that
is fairly obvious That road is a little road It is too small to handle the
amount of traffic we're getting there now. Have you been up there? Did
you see it? Now you're going to add another 23 homes. Why are we
pleading for a way and quality of life There's a new development that's
coming n. Let them make our quality of life better. Let them..
(applause)...tell them to go the North Rd. and come in there and make a
beautiful development. We'd like to see a development, but make an access
to it the right way, not through our little streets.
've got news for you, thirty three years ago I didn't have grandchildren. I've
got grandchildren now that walk and run around and play there. It's only a
little road and you've got 100 homes there. Why are we pleading? Let them
put a road in on 48. .. (applause) . ..they've got 92 feet. They've got it, let
them pay for it. They're rich developers. Put the road in
Demetrious Nickus: My name is Demetrious Nickus. live at 345 Green Hill
Lane. Up and down (inaudible), came here from New York City (inaudible),
Westchester, Astoria, Brooklyn. 20 years ago, me and about 5 or 6 of these
fellows here (inaudible) we were coming for fishing. So we bought property,
why, because it was nice, the area and we liked it. So, we built homes, we
never bothered the schools, we paid taxes. Some of the people around here
they pay too much taxes. (everyone talking).
We came for the quality of life (inaudible). So now if I have a problem to go
out of that (inaudible). Many people don't know how to drive. [inaudible)
they have accidents at Moore's Lane north. It's such a little thing and trucks,
very difficult to go n. Now in five or ten years about 60, 100, 200 Rouses
more. How are these people going to be moving around to the streets?
(Inaudible from this point on).
Christine Anderson: When wil the Board make its decision on this proposal as
it presently stands?
Sour:hold Town Planning Board
52 October '18, 1999
Mr. Orlowski: Well right now I'll probably entertain a motion to hold this
hearing open. We have a lot to digest. I get the gist of everything that's
going on. I don't think you have to keep repeating yourselves here. It's a
long night and if we stay here all night we'll all forget what we're doing.
Unknown: Can I just interrupt you and make less than one paragraph? Again,
maybe tonight is not the proper way to address this, but 'm talking from a
real estate taxes point of view. I want you to know that the people that live,
that come here, pay on the area up there on Eastern Shores, our taxes in
comparison to over here in the Town, they're extremely high And every
time we have peolDle that come here to meetings al the time, t can assure
you this will never happen. The taxes are extremely high. I live in Nassau
County and Suffolk County especially here the taxes are extremely high n
companson to the value of these houses.
The next question I have, an assumption, if these houses are completed,
what is going to be our tax base over there? That's a big question mark and
I don't know if you'll be able to answer it, but I know for the services that we
receive here, the garbage is never collected, the water...we have to go buy
(everyone talking)...we've got to go through the whole exercise to buy all
this stuff and also the worse part, I'm going to make a statement, many
years ago the school in Greenport it was in the paper, it was rated the lowest
school in the State of New York. 300 people were attending over there and
we were subsidizing school taxes. As you know, the school taxes were the
major portion of payment and I Know this thing has not changed. And that's
what we (inaudible) and I think we should have a voice in that. That's a I'm
going to say at this point.
Mr. Orlowski: I can say beyond the shadow of a doubt totally agree with
you, when it comes to paying taxes, I think they're high all over, but this
Board has absolutely nothing to do with it, because if we did your taxes
would [De lower tomorrow, can guarantee that one.
Unknown: (inaudible) you nave no answer for us?
Mr. Orlowski: This hearing is so we can listen and the Board wil ...
Unknown: (inaudible)
Mr. Orlowski: We got the message. We understand
Unknown: Are we going to have an answer before elections or after?
Southold,Town Planning Board
Mr. Orlowski: can't guarantee that.
hearing open
Mr. Edwards: So moved
Mr Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Alt those ~n favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ware, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. (change tape)
O~ober 18, 1999
I'll entertain a motion to hold the
Mr. Orlowski: Saundra J. Perry Physical Therapy - This site ;)lan is for a 7'10
square foot addition to an existing building, in Southold. SCTM# '1000-63-4-
3. The heanng was held on September '13 and was closed and we have
everything now. Suffolk County Health has not arrived yet, but we can do it
subject to. We have a letter from New York State DOT but not the permit
but we can do that subject to also. I'll entertain a motion.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to offer the following resolution
WHEREAS, this site plan, to be known as site plan for Saundra J. Perry,
Physical Therapy, is for a 710 square foot ~)uilding to be used as a physica
therapy office; and
WHEREAS, Saundra J Perry is the contract vendee of the property known
and designated as 50300 Main Road. Southold, SCTM# 1000-63-4-3; and
WHEREAS, a formal application for the approval of this site plan was
submitted on July '12, 1999; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, (6NYCRR), Part 617, makes a
determination that this project is a Type II action and not subject to the
provisions of the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (SEQRA); and
WHEREAS, this site plan was certified by the Building Inspector on October 7,
1999; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58,
Southold Town Planning Board $4 October 18, 1999
Notice of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has
complied with the notification provisions; and
WHEREAS, the applicant hereby agrees and understands that if the site plan
which receives stamped Health Department approval differs ~n any way from
the proposed conditional site ;)tan on which the Planning Board held a public
hearing and voted on, then the Planning Board has the right and option, if
the change is material to any of the issues properly before the Planning
Board, to hold a public hearing on this "revised" site plan application and
review its conditional approval; and
WHEREAS, on August 16, 1999, the applicant signed a statement agreeing
not to object to a new public hearing and Planning Board review of the
revised application; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Site Plan Regulations of the Town of
Southolc~ have been met,; [3e it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final
approval on the surveys dated October I, 1999, and authorize the Chairman
to endorse the final surveys subject to fulfillment of the following condition.
All conditions must be met within six (6) months of the date of this
resolution.
1. Curb cut permit by the New York State Department of Transportation.
Review and approval by the Suffolk County Department of Health
Services.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion
Mr Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
MAJOR AND MIN OR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF
APPLICATIONS
Southold Town Planning Board
Sketch Extension:
55 October 18, 1999
Mr. Orlowski: Paradise Isles - This proposed minor subdivision is for 4 lots on
$0.619 acres located on the north side of Island View Lane; 234.t8 feet west
of Bayshore Road, and on the south side of August Lane in Southold.
SCTM# 1000-53-6-46.2 and 57-2-1.1.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I'll entertain the following motion. BE IT
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a retro-active six
month extension of sketch approval from September 17, 1999 to March 17,
2000. Conditional sketch approval was granted on September 30, 1996.
Mr. Latham: Second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr, Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carded.
Mr. Orlowski: Robert Kowalsld - This proposed minor subdivision is for 2 lots
on 83,966 square feet located on Main Rd. in Arshamomaque. SCTM# 1000-
45-5-1.
Mr. Edwards: I'll entertain the following motion BE IT RESOLVED that the
Southold Town Planning Board grant a six month extension of sketch
8 pproval from October 5, 1999 to April 5, 2000. Conditional sketch approval
was granted on April 5, 1999.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried
Set Final Hearing
Southold Town Planning Board :56
October 18, 1999
Mr. Orlowski: Morton-Gemma - This lot line change between Keith Scott
Morton and Pasc~uale Anthony Oemma is to subtract 0.15 acres from a
17.5912 acre parcel and to add it to a 0.48 acre parcel. The properties are
located on the northwest corner of King St, and Old Farm Rd. and the south
side of Orchard St. in Orient. SCTM# I000-25-4-11.4 & 1000-26-1-31.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, 'd like To offer the following resolution. WHEREAS,
this proposed lot ine change ~s to subtract 0.15 acres from a 17.5912 acre
parcel owned now or formerly by Keith Scott Morton; and
WHEREAS, the 0.15 acres is proposed to be merged with a 0.48 acre parcel
owned now or formerly by Pasquale Anthony Gemma;
BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the
State Environmental Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this
unlisted action. The Planning Board establishes itself as lead agency, and as
lead agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants a
Negative Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Ail those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the Southold Town
Planning Board set Monday, November I, 1999 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public
hearing on the maps dated August 10, 1999.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Orlowski: Richard B. Thatcher & M. Llewellyn Thatcher - This lot line
change is to subtract 0.37 acres from a 4.48 acre parcel and add it to a 1.49
Soul:hold Town Planning Board
$7 October 18, 1999
acre parcel. The property is located off a private road off East End Road on
Fishers Island. SCTM# 1000-3-3-7 FIDCO Lots # 19-IA, p/o 19.2 & 19-IB.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following resolution BE iT RESOLVED
that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this
unlisted action. The Planning Board establishes itself as lead agency, and as
lead agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants a
Negative Declaration.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Edwards: BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning
Board set Monday, November I, 1999 at 7:35 p.m. for a final public hearing
on the maps dated September 6, 1999.
Mr. Latham: Second
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. OrlowskJ, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
SITE PLANS
Final Determinations:
Mr. Orlowski: North Fork Bank- This proposed site plan is for a 7,100 square
foot storage addition to an existing office building, in Mattituck.
SCTM# 1000-122-6-20 & 22.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, 'd like to offer the following resolution. BE IT
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board authorize the Chairman
to endorse the final surveys dated September 27, 1999. Conditional final
Southold Town Planning Board :58 October 18, 'i 999
approval was granted on July 19, 1999. All conditions have been fulfilled.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Mr. Orlowskk Motion made and seconded All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Set Final Hearing:
Roy LoCascio - This amended site plan is to re-open a former
restaurant and tavern, as a restaurant only. SCTM# I000-62-3-7.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Southold Town Planning Board
set Monday, November 1, 1999 at 7:40 p.m. for a final public hearing on the
maps dated September 29, 1999.
Mr. Latham: Second
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Al those n favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Orlowski: Broadwaters Cove Marina -This site plan is for a 108 square
foot addition to an existing tool building and for a 900 square foot
proposed storage building at an existing marina ocated on Skunk Lane (Bay
Ave.) in Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-104-8-2.5.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, 'd like to offer the following resolution. BE IT
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, November I,
1999 at 7:45 p,m. for a final public hearing on the maps dated August 25,
1999
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Southold Town Planning Board 39 October '18, 1999
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those n favor?
Ayes: Mr. Odowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Odowski: Opposed? Motion carried
SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL ¢)UALITY I~EVlEW ACT
Lead Agency DesignaLion:
Mr. Orlowski: Shady Lady - This site alan is for the renovation of an existing
restaurant an(~ Bed & Breakfast on second floor. SCTM# '1000-35-'1-2'1 & 22.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I move that the Southold Town Planning Board,
acting under the State Environmental quality Review Act, establishes itself as
lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance,
and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowskh Motion made anc~ seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Ortowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES
Mr. Odowski: Board to approve the September 13, 1999 minutes.
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr. Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowskh Motion made anct seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
40 October 18, 1999
Motion carried; and September 27, '1999 minutes,
Southold Town Planning Board
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed?
Mr. Latham: So moved.
Mr, Ward: Second.
Mr, Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr, Odowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. I have nothing left on my agenda.
If anybody wants to say anything on the public record we can do that,
otherwise I'll entertain a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Latham: I'll move that.
Mr, Ward: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those ~n favor?
Ayes: Mr, Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr, Latham, Mr. Edwards.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
There oeing no further 0usiness to come before the Board, the meeting
adjourneC at 9:25 p.m
Respectfully submitted,
Martha A. Jones
Secretary
Benne[t Orlowsl(i, Jr.,'F":~hacma~
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOb~fHOLD TOWN CLF. I~
DANTE//,},2-,_3//~',,~_., H~O,~~
Town Clerk, To~ of Sout~old