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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-09/13/1999PLANNING BOARD MEMB~S BENNETT ORLOWSKI, JR. Chairman WILLIAM J. CREMERS KENNETH L. EDWARDS GEORGE RITCHIE LATHAM, JR. RICHARD G. WARD Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-3136 Telephone (516) 765-1938 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD Present were: Absent: MINUTES September 15, 1999 Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman Richard O. Ward G Ritchie Latham William Cre mers Melissa Spiro, Planner Martha Jones, Secretary Va erie Scopaz, Town Planner Kenneth Edwards Robert O. Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer Mr. Odowski: Good evening. I'd like to call this meeting to order, The first order of business, Board to set Monday, September 27, 1999 at 7:30 p.m. at Southold Town Hall, Main Rd., Southold, as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Odowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr, Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. PUBLIC HEARINGS Mr. Orlowski: - Joseph Macari and Suffolk County Water Authority- This lot line change is to subtract 7.8 acres from a 63.57 acre parcel (SCTM# 1000- Southold Town Planning Board 2 September 1:~, 1999 121-4-9.1), and To add it to an adjacent 69.43 acre parcel (SCTM# fl000-125- 5-5.1). The remaining 55.77 acre parcel will be sold to Suffolk County through the Safe Drinldng Water Program. The 7.8 acre area will be merged with adjacent land owned by the Suffolk County Water Authority. The property is located on the south side of Sound Ave. in Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-121-4-9.1 and 125-5-5.1. I'll ask if there is anyone who has any comments on this lot line change? There doesn't appear to be any: Any questions from the Board? Mr. Ward? Mr. Ward: No. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Latham? Mr. Latham: No. Mr. Orlowski; Mr. Cremers? Mr. Cremers: No. Mr. Orlowski: I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those n favor? Ayes: Mr, Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? MOtion carried. What's the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following resolution. Monday, September 13, 1999: The final public hearing, which was held at 7:30 p.m. was closed. The following resolution was ado pted: WHEREAS, Joseph Macari is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM# 1000-121-4-9.1, and Suffolk County Water Authority isthe owner of the properw Known and designated as, SCTM# 1000-121-5-5.1, located on the south side of Sound Ave. in Mattituck; and Soul:hold Town Planning Board $ September 1 ~. 1999 WHEREAS, this proposed lot line change is to subtract 7.8 acres from a 63.57 acre parcel owned by Joseph Macari; and WHEREAS, the remaining acreage of the Macari parcel (55.77 acres) will be purchased by Suffolk County through the Safe Drinking Water Program; and WHEREAS, the Suffolk County 7.8 acre area will be merged with adjacent land owned by the Water Authority; and WHEREAS, the Suffolk County Water Authority, in addition to obtaining the 7.8 acre area, will obtain a 4.0 acre easement area on the parcel to purchased by Suffolk County, as shown on the Lot Line Change for Macari - Suffolk County Water Authority; and WHEREAS, the partnership with Suffolk County and Suffoik County Water Authority has been proposed in order to protect the aquifer; and WHEREAS, all parties involved have reached an agreement in principle in regard to the proposal; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself lead agency and issued a Negative Declaration on August 16, 1999; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58, Notice of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has corn plied with the notification provisions; a nd WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on September 13, 1999; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold nave been met; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final approval on the surveys dated September 9, 1999, and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys subject to fulfil ment of the following condition. All conditions must be met within six (6} months of the date of this resolution: New deeds reflecting the lot line change must be filed for each parcel. Copies of the recorded deeds must be submitted to this office. Southotd Town Planning Board 4 Mr. Ward: Second the motion. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Odowski: Opposed? Motion carried. September 13, 1999 Any questions on the motion? All Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Orlowski: Saundra J. Perry Physical Therapy - This site plan is for a 710 square foot addition to an existing building, in Southold. SCTM# 1000-63-4- 3. if anybody is here that would like to make a comment. I'm going entertain a motion to ~hold this hearing open because we haven't heard from the Department of Transportation, the Architectural Review, or the Health Department, so I don't know if anyone s here that would like to make a comment now? If not, 1'11 entertain that motion. Mr. Ward: So moved. Mr. Cremers: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Odowski: Opposed? Motion carried, Mr. Orlowski: Mattituck-Laurel Library - This amended site plan is for a 4,285 square foot addition to an existing library. SCTM# I000-114-11-2. '11 ask if there are any comments? Everything right now is in order to close this hearing. If there is anyone that would like to make any comments on this right now? I'll entertain a mOtion to close the hearing. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second Southold Town Planning [~oard 5 Mr. Orlowsl<i: Motion made and seconded. those in favor? September 15, 1999 Any questions on the motion? All Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr, Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. What's the pleasure of the Board? Mr, Ward: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make the following resolution. WHEREAS, this site plan, to oe known as site plan for the Mattituck Laurel Library, is for a 4,285 square foot addition to an existing library; and WHEREAS, Mattituck '_aurel Library Board of Trustees are the owners of the property known and designated as Mattituck Laurel Library, Main Rd, Mattituck, SCTM# 1000-114-11-2; and WHEREAS, a formal application for the approval of this site plan was submitted on April 29, 1999; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself lead agency and issued a Negative Declaration on July 19, 1999; and WHEREAS, a variance was granted by the Board of Appeals on August 18, 1999; and WHEREAS, this site plan, dated April 19, 1999, was certified ~3y the Building inspector on July 23, 1999; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58, Notice of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has complied with the notification provisions', and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Site Plan Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey dated April 19, 1999, with the Suffolk County Department of Health Services approval stamp dated July 26, 1999, subject to a one year review from date of building permit, Mr. Latham: Second the motion. Southold Town Planning Board 6 September 15, 1999 Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any qugstions on the motion? those in favor? All Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried, Mr, Orlowski: Summit Estates - Sections I, 2, 5 & 4 - Public hearing in accordance with Condition Number ti of the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions for Summit Estates. SCTM# I000-35-8-(5.4-5.18) and 38-7-(8- 12). Summit Estates - Section 4- Section 4 of this major suodivision is for one 4.3739 acre lot (Lot Cf 33). The property is located off Shipyard Lane in East Marion. SCTMCf I000-38-7-p/o 10 (a.k.a. SCTM# 1000-35-8-5 3) Just to try and clarify things, I will read this for the record and hopefully it will help everyone understand this. I know it's a little confusing, but maybe we can s~mplify it. The Planning Board opened the public hearing in regard to Condition Number 11 of the Covenants and Restrictions on July 19th. This is a continuation of that hearing. Condition Number 11 of the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions states that "The dock, and any further expansion of such, cannot be conveyed separately from Lot No. 33 except by permission of the Southold Town Planning Board after a public hearing, and if such conveyance shall be allowed, it shall be to the owner,s) of the park and recreation area only." The Planning Board asked the applicant to go before the Town Trustees in regard to the allowable number of boat slips and the allowable use of the dock for the dockage of boats. The Planning Board has received a report from the Trustees, and the Trustees have determined that the dock was originally approved by the Trustees as a single family dock, sUbject to the regulations under Chapter 100-31 C.(3)(a), which states that "There shall be docking or mooring facilities for no more than two (2) boats other than those owned and used by the owner of the premises for his personal use. Southold Town Planning Board 7 September 15, 1999 The Planning Board is prepared to allow the ownership of the dock to be conveyed to the Homeowners Association with the condition that the use of the dock for docking and mooring purposes be limited to that allowed under Chapter 100-51 C. (5) (a) of the Town Code. That is, that no more ;han 2 boats other than those owned and used by the Summit Estates Homeowners Association shall use the dock for docking or mooring facilities in addition, all members of the Summit Estates Homeowners Association shall have the right to use the dock for purposes other than that of docking and mooring of boats. These uses shall include, but not be limited to, uses such as walking on the dock and fishing from the dock. I hope that that clarifies it a little bit. This hearing is still open and we'll entertain comments before we do a resolution. Tom Krause: My name is Tom Krause. I'm an owner of Crescent Beach Condominium and I'd like clarification of use by the Summit Estates Homeowner's Association (HCA) in terms of boats. Does that mean boats that are actually owned by the Association as a corporation, or by members of the association? Mr. Orlowski: It has to be owned by the Association. Mr. Krause: Aisc, has there been a rewsion of the request by the applicant s~nce July, because the original request did not ask for transfer to the HCA, out asked that the developer be allowed to keep control for the benefit of the HCA, that the developer Rave two slips and that the owner of Lot 33 have two slips I thought that was the question before the Board. Mr. Orlowski: I assume you're referring to the July 26 letter that went to the Trustees? Is that the one? Mr. Krause: I'm referring to a July 6 letter that went to you, but I'll double check that. July 6, 1999, Southold Town Planning Board. Mr. Odowski: Well, that's what they ask for I~ut it's not what they're going to get. It will conveyed to the HCA, but in'order for the ~OA to.,.they can only dock I~oats that are owned by the HCA, and two additional boat slips. Not four like they showed up in two letters here. Mr. Krause: But in that letter they don't ask for transfer to the HCA, so... Mr. Orlowski: In this letter they do, on July 26. Southold Town Planning Board 8 SepTember 13, 1999 Mr. ~rause: The last question that I nave is the representative from Summit Estates ..there was a question at the last meeting that the reason they wanted to do this was to give the homeowners a chance to use the dock for recreational purposes and to fish and so on, and that can certainly be accomplished by granting an easement to the homeowners if you wanted to do something more permanent than just with the dock owners permission, which I'm sure they have now. But the question is why is it necessary to transfer ownership? Mr. Orlowski: I don't quite follow you, but we're transferring ownership to the HOA. Right now it may be controlled by one or two people, but after 51% of this subdivision is sold out, it will ~}e controlled by the HOA. The HOA will be allowed, besides the two boats originally allowed by the Trustees, they will be allowed a boat, if it's owned by the HOA. Mr, Krause: The ,letter, at least the one dated July 6, also asks that after the HOA reaches 51% ownership, that they will have the right to approach the Board and the Town and ask for additional things that they might want. Is that being restricted? Mr. Orlowski: Well, anybody can do that. You can go to the Trustees at any time for anything and that's above us. Are there any other comments? Mr. Krause: Is there a resolution that's going to be voted on? Mr Orlowski: Yes. Mr. ~(rause: is it a draft resolution or a done resolution? Mr. Orlowski: It will be a resolution. Mr. Krause: Is it possible To ask for the final wording of the resolution to be held open until neighbors have had a chance to see it and pemaps make comment to the Board on it? Mr. Orlowski: If that's the pleasure of the Board, bu~ I think basically we've described what the resolution entails. There's a lot to this resolution. Francis McNally: My name is Francis McNally. I'm an owner at Crescent Beach Condominium. I didn't quite understand what you meant. The HOA will own the boats, not an individua homeowner, but the Association, is that correct? Mr, Orlowski: If they own the boat, the HOA, then they can dock it there. $outhold Town Planning Board September 15, 1999 Mr. McNally: But not the homeowners themselves. Mr, Orlowskh No. Mr. McNally: And that's four boats allowed to be put in there? Mr. Orlowski: No. Two boats can go n there now, and the HOA, if they own the boats, I would assume they could put as many as they want. Ms. Spiro: The way the code reads, you're allowed two boats in addition to your own personal boats. So when you have a HOA, a personal boat would be a boat or boats owned by the HOA, owned and used, so they would be registered..the registration would be to the Summit EstaTes HOA or to the owner of the development. That's how the code reads. Mr. McNally: And that's a maximum of two boats? Ms. Spiro: Two boats other than those owned ..like if you own a dock personally you're allowed to keep as many boats as you own in your name aqd two additional ones. That's how the code reads. Mr. McNally: I must be pretty dumb, 'm really not getting this. Could it be possible at this time for them to have 10 boats there? Mr. Orlowski: It could be, if the HOA wants to take on the ownership of these boats and the liability and everything that goes with it. Mr. McNally: Woul'd they have to petition the Planning Board for that then? Mr. Orlowski: Not now. Not the way the code is written. Tom Krause: In1992, when the Trustees acknowledged their lack of jurisdiction over the applications for a permit for an extension of that dock that's now SUmmit Estates, the Board of Trustees did reiterate that any alterations to the dockl landward of the seaward most point on the dock as it existed at that time would reo uire wetlands permits and that would bring it into the purview of the Board of Trustees. My questiOn is..,by the way thinkthere are in fact four slips at the dock right now, not two, and my question would be if there were 10 boats that were owned by the HOA, and given that there are four slips, and they decided to take the risk of (inaudible) can they just attach tham to the dock? Do they need to have special places for boats or can they just moor them on the dock in any way they see fit? Southold Town Planning Board 10 September 15, 1999 Mr. Orlowski: it would come under the Trustees, and t can't tell you how they would dock them or how they would put them on there and if they didn't fit more than 10 and they were all over the place or moored out in the wa~er, i'm sure that the Trustees would have a violation of their rules. Patrick Regina: I'm Patrick Regina from Crescen~ Beach. Why do you have to transfer ownership to the association there? Why can't we just grant an easement? That's all they're saying, they just want to use it for walking out on the dock, for fishing. We have qo problem with that. But every time something like this happens, we end uo on the short end of the stick. I can't comprehend half of this stuff. Section, blah, blah, btah. Anyone can come n and start doing things here. Can't we get something that's concrete here to protect our families here, what we've worked very hard for? We're talking about 100 feet of beach. We all have more than that, double that, and we're not asking for this. Please, we're in very sensitive water here. Our families swim here. Children could be hurt with boats. Crescent Beach has been opened since 1955. We qever asked for a dock. As I said before, t think it was you ladies and gentlemen the last time, we were being "reed" in. We were being trapped. This is unfair. Liberty and justice for all. This is unfair. Please, before you do anything or grant something I think you should all meet me or walk down to this sensitive area where the baymen need sonar to come into the area already. The osprey can't dive in the water anymore it is so crowded. Please, I beg of this Board, if it was your families. Please, come and look at this area. See:what is approaching us. This is a giant. Wefre just normal people looking for families. Before we had to put in our dock we had to stay in our water space, as I showed you the as-built survey, only to protect our property. I beg of this Board, before you do anything, come and walk the site with me and we'll show you what we have here and you can see with your own eyes what has happened to us. We are hard working people. We're not rich people. Some of us hold a couple of jobs to pay for these little summer homes so our families can breathe a little fresh air. I beg of you, please consider before anything is done, don't make the mistake and let this tragedy happen to us. Thank you Ms. Spiro: I just have a kind of a reverse question back to you. You're saying that the Planning Board should grant an easement over the dock? Who should retain ownership of the dock? Mr. Regina: The owner, not to grant it... Ms. Spiro: The owner of the subdivision or the owner of the house? Southold Town Planning Board 11 September 13, 1999 Mr. Regina: The house where he's only allowed two slips. Ms. Spiro: Well, he's not. If the house owns the dock, he's allowed two boats in addition to those boats that he owns. Mr. Regina: Yes, but you want to transfer it to the association, (inaudible) we could have 10 boats as the gentleman just said. Ms. Spiro: Only if the boats are owned and registered to the HOA. Mr. Orlowski: Do you foresee 35 people getting together and buying 35 boats and registering 35 ~)oats and paying ~nsurance on them? Mr. Regina: That's why I would like you folks...l've been going there since the '60's, I would like you folks to come and look where we're just going to put a little dirt down and look at a wall that's enormous. We're just going to do this -- enormous. A hundred feet, three hundred foot dock. Crescent Beach was ordered - and I have the as-built survey with me - to stay in the water. Not that anybody owns the water. But to stay in your boundary lines, and the "T" is completely in our boundary lines that we couldn't add another section because it was too close to our dock, this "T", which is in our water space, which nobody owns the water, want that perfectly clear. But I would like you to walk with me. We're all on this earth together. This sensitive - clamming, scallops - we shouldn't destroy it. They want a marina there, and if you think they don't, we're all dreaming here folks, we're all dreaming here. And I'm talking to you as person to person here, I'll make an appointment. Before you do anything or s~gn anything in stone here, I would like you to just walk with us. Let me show you what has been done here and then you make your decision. And if you worked a couple of jobs to support your family, to..give them a little fun in the sun, and see what somebody will just come inand just build and then leave, that's destroying the nature of the whole area It's terrible. It really is terrible. Don't let law run over human beings. Don't let justice .ust slip bY us. I beg of you, please consider this, to walkthe area. This is a very pristine area and it won't be and we're all going to lost a lot. Especially that area where the ~}aymen used to work and do the scallops and the clams. And we used to love watching them do that. Walk out, buy some clams from them, and it was wonderful Now, you can't even look across the bay. It's a maze of docks and they want to turn it into a marina The gentleman just asked, how many members of Southold Town Planning Board 12 September 1 $, 1999 the Board nave actually been there to look at this area and see what has happened to us? I beg you, give me a chance. I'll meet you any time, and where and we'll walk together and you'll see it before you put anything in stone. (CHANGE TAPE). That's why I ask this, please, give me a chance here folks. Give me a chance. Think if it was your children. Your families. They put even two boats, would jeopardize the lives of our children. It is becoming a very dangerous area to swim, and we've been there since 1955. We're just going to be pushed aside because we're a little mom and pop place. No one is going to have any feelings for us. This really hurts me. It hurts a lot of us. So, when you say yes or no, has anybody seen the area? Has anybody seen what we've gone through? All I ask is one visit before you do anything, and let me show you. Let me show you some good hospitality by Cleaves Point and Crescent Beach Thank you. Mr. Orlowski: Well, I can assure you that in the last ten years that this has been around, one of us has been down there or a couple of us has been aown there many times, so we have seen the site. Don Henry: My name is Don Henry from Cleaves Point Condo Association. I ask that you consider a couple of the following points. 1. The permission for the original dock in question was granted on the basis of personal use. 2. Expansion of that usage to any ac~ditionat slips or boats clearly violates the intent and the spirit of the origina commission for the construction of the dock. 3. We were offered the benefit of a perspectus at the last meeting, which we have not had the opportunity to see and peruse to determine just what the intent or plans of this aDplication really are. 4. I agree with what everyone else has said here. I'm quite confused, if in fact fishing and walking on the dock was the intent of the application, then why not an easement? Why a change of ownership? I'm not sure that this Board, a Planning Board, has been able to provide us ..I'm not intending to be disrespectful, but provide us with assurance that there will not be more than two or four boats at'that dock. And finally, in response to what can we see eight or ten years down the road? I don't know what we can see eight or ten years down the road, Southold Town Planning Board 15 SepTember 15, 1999 however, I would much prefer to deal with a single ownership rather than ownership of a 35 house association, because have no idea what that's going to present and what kind of expansion that can lead to with the dock. Thank you. Mr. Orlowski: Anyone else? David Mamina: Good evening. David Mamina of Cleaves Point Condominiums. My unit directly abuts the little parcel of land. As Mr. Regina had said, if you haven't been there, I would suggest that you do go there and take a look at it. This piece of property, the subject piece, ~s on the way to no one's house in the Summit Estates. No one sees it from there house. It's basically kind of an off shoot that's accessed by what I believe is a right- of-way easement across the property, to that. My concern, and for whatever its worth which maybe is not a whole lot of anything, but I chair a very similar board in one of the towns in Nassau County. I know how difficult your job is. I also know that enforcement is something which is virtually impossible, once something is granted. And from what I hear tonight, if I were to surmise, I think that the Board feels that justice would be meted out by kind of g~ving this approval to the HOA because, of course, the HOA is not going to own these boats. And that may be true, and that may be the problem But when you do have five, six, e~ght; ten boats, or however many boats may end up being tied up there, the job of the Town to enforce what the spirit of a resolution might be that you pass tonight, will be very, very difficult. It's just not going to happen, I know from my own experience. There are some decisions that I look back on in reflection and say, yeah, that was a bad decision because even though our heart was in the right place, the ability to actually make that happen and enforce that was really just impossible. That's something that took me sometime to learn. ACcer doing that for seven years, I think I can spot them at 100 miles away, which ones are the good ones and which ones are the bad ones. I think beyond that, if the Board were in any form to entertain the transfer, the thing that I would beg of you to consider would be covenants and restrictions on that property so that for all of us who take very good care of our property because we ali see it. We see it from everybody's front door whether you're in Cleaves Point or in Crescent Beach, that there be very, very severe restrictions on what can happen with that piece of property. 'm not only concerned about seeing the boats and the safety of the boats and all of that, coming into the marina., 'm also concerned a bout what is Southold Town Planning Board 14 September 13, 4999 that piece of property going to look like? Are we going to nave trailers stored there, and-outboard engines, and 55 gallon drums and people's boats over the winter? Again, no one sees this who lives in the HOA. This is an offshoot~ piece of property, I00 feet wide, serving 35 houses. We have I/4 of a mile of beachfront serving the Cleaves Point Condominiums. A s,gnificant difference. I think you really have to look at the intensity and the impact of this and really look at it. Is this what seems on the surface to be a benign solution by saving well, the HOA has to own the boats. I've been there, I've done that, and I Know how difficult it is from the perspective of the Town to enforce this. I think that you have the opinion of the Town Trustees which I'm sure I don't have to remind you of, in which they state in black and white that they can see no reason for the transfer of the ownership. You're an independent body, not obligated to do what the Board of Trustees says, and that's why you're here. You're independent agents, but certainly t think that the spirit of the Town, the Town Board had put together the original resolution what it exists today is basically telling you, this is what we would like to see happen to carry forth what we felt was our original intent when this was put into place and I would ask you to consider that carefully as you make your decision. Thank you. Sue Hallock: Good evening, I'm Sue Hallock. I manage Cleaves Point Condominiums. I just want to make a point about the HOA being perhaps a commercial entity, know as a condominium we are considered a commercial entity, our condominium association. And if that's the case then it seems like it would be in direct opposition to the Trustees determination that the dock remain as a slngte family dock Thank you. Francis McNally: Gan I say one other.thing please. I've been an owner of Crescent Beach for 21 years. On the east side of our property, they built a four foot high concrete wall and filled in during the winter, years back. I don't know how they got that passed the Board. That thing was filled in all winter long. We were not oLit there. Consequently we wound up spending S80,000 to put in a french drain because the water was coming up under our buildings. This is something Ithink that the Board should have .thought about before. Looking at that and what you have right now, it seems to me it's going to go down the same road and it's going to end up costing us more money again, and ruining our property. Donna Geraghty: it's a I been very heartfelt what I've heard here tonight, and I respect where everyone is coming from, however, I~m here speaking for the homeowners of Summit Estates and I hear about property rights and I hear about things that everyone feels they work hard for, their dollars spent and Southold Town PLanning Board 15 September I$, 1999 two and three jobs, and I'm sure that that will also De the situation with reference to some of the homeowners in Summit Estates. That -portion of land had the zoning rights to have four condominium units on it. Wehad chosen go give up those rights to allow 35 homeowners to utilize the beach and whatever water rights they may have along with that. And I feel that with reference to the HOA I think that all of these new 35 owners have as many rights as anyone else here does. Once you're there, you're happy. You don't want it changed. But I think that we have some very good homeowners coming in, purchasing homes, spending a lot of money for their homes -- in fact spending more money than the waterfront cottages -- and I say to you that they are going to be as interested in maintaining the quality of living. And their quality of living and the va ue of thier homes is also based on that waterfront. By having it be a sing e and separate ownership, homes transfer all the time, you'll never know what one owner will do to a single dock. The reason we'd like it to be in to the HOA isso that that association can keep the value of their homes up. Certainly, it would not be right for a HOA to have to go down and if at a future date the dock is deteriorating, I mean they should have some rights there too, because it is their beach. Tom Krause: t think my only response to that would be, it would be necessary to read a page from the declaration of Summit Estates which makes it clear that the homeowners of Summit Estates have no right to the dock and that the sole maintenance and upkeep and in fact insurance to the dock would be the owner of, what is now called lot 33. My understanding also is that the offering plan makes no mention of the dock and the availability of the dock to the homeowners. Cathleen Ahearn: My name is Cathleen Ahearn. 'ma Board member at CresCent Beach condominium and I would just like to make one point about parcel D, Which is in the covenants and restrictions. That area, 100 feet of land that goes back, it's access to the dock, is supposed to be a park and recreation area and I concur with one of the members of the other condominium who says how difficult it will be to enforce rules and regulations and restrictions that you place on this transfer, if it does infact happen. would just like to go on record as saying at the present time that park and recreation area -- 1 don't know what the definition -- there are four or three restrictions here. The area shall be owned by the HOA. It shall remain in its Sour:hold Town Planning Board 16 September 15, 1999 natural state and any building, structure or parking to be located on parcel D should be at points 310 feet north of Gardiners Bay, which is pretty far Pack. At the present time, there are all kinds of vehicles driving down that piece of property, throwing up dust and all kinds of other things and debris, at all times of day and night and there is no one to enforce that that p~ece of property, that I00 feet by 300 feet, is used for a park and recreation for the homeowners. It sounds good on paper but that's not what's I~appening and I would like to go on record as saying that our concern is what is going to happen down the road? Thank you. Patrick Regina: I would just like to say that we are not against Summit Estates but if any boats get added To that dock, we lose our swim area since 1955. 1955. We will lose our swim area, and I have the survey here that can show you, if you'd like to take a look at it, what would happen if they add a few more boats. We can not sw~m on the other side of our dock because that's the Paulsens beach. We lose our own property swim area for our families and our children. And we al bought here because of the water. If the water wasn't there, our places would I~e worth five thousand dollars We would lose the water, and I can show it to you right here, to show you what would happen We are crowded as it is. May approach the Board? I'm unarmed. Now this looks very big on paper, but right here, this is the water lines that we had to obey, when the Board says -- and we respected the Board. This is the line which we...this is where we swim. This is where the boats would go, backing up right into our families. We can't swim here. This is it. We put ropes here. We've had ropes here for years to rope it in, to swim. So not even boats coming in could hurt us. Mr. Orlowski: Were you at the Trustee meeting that approved that dock? Mr. Regina: This one? No I wasn't there at the approval. They approved this, but this one was approved and look at the difference. Look, at what we had to obey, Look at the lines here, can you see that, ladies? We're talking about losing everything. Unknown: This dock should have been further over i~ere, and not over into this water area. Mr. Regina: It should have been like this. Unknown: it should have been on this side. Mr. Regina: The Board asked us to getan as built survey, l did not know Southold Town Planning Board 17 September 13, 1999 what an as built survey was. The Board asked us. I said what is it? They said, well we want to check your water space, not that anybody owns the water, let me make that clear. But we want you to stay within your perimeter. I said, absolutely. We would be delighted to obey the rule. We have no problem. But, this is why we had to put the dock. Right here is the neighbors land. If he put a dock here, we'd be wiped out. And we called John Oeigerman. Does anyone here know John Geigerman? First an owner told us and called him here as an engineer, he's our neighbor. And he said to me, you're in deep trouble because if this property sells off or condominiums buy this or the guy next (~oor decides to put a dock, you're landlocked. Mr. Orlowski: How many boats do you keep there? Mr. Regina: I don't know, about five or six boats. Unknown: How many slips? Mr. Regina: There are 11 slips. Unknown: Inaudible question Mr. Regina: 21. But we had to do it [3ecause we never wanted a dock, to protect our property because we would have been "veed" in We never cared. Remember, all these years we never cared to have a dock. Unknown: This thing should have gone straight out and. Mr. Regina: Straight out, but the slip is here. This is where the slip iS I~ere to back in. Do you see this gentlemen? I'm not asking ...I just want what's fair, that's all. I just want what's fair. And having this area put, like you said, ten boats..you could tell me it's only going to be four boats and you're locking it in, I'd say OK, live and let live. But we don't know what's going to happen. That's what they said when they poured the little fill. It's only going to be a couple of truckloads. Four hundred feet later...that's why, did you walk and see the wall that the gentleman said that we had to spend. We can't afford these things. But that's why 'd like you to walk that. This looks much bigger than the swim area is. This looks much bigger. When you see what we have to swim in, if you put a boat, we have to bring in...what are we going to swim in, 20 feet of water? That's why I'm bringing this to your attention. Something has to be done here. ,But no hasty decision should be made. Thank you Southold Town Planning Board 18 September 1:5, 1999 gentlement and ladies. Donna Oeraghty: don't think anyone is questioning where their ropes are. don't think anyone is asking you to move your swim area or I don't think anyone is asking to intrude upon...I mean, you're roped off where you are now and if a boat were to go n there, don't think that anyone is going to take a chance of wrapping a rope around their prop. You're pretty well protected for your sw~m area there. Mr. Regina: Would you not put a boat there, children swimming? mean on our side with the this is a hearing. Address the Mr. Orlowski: Excuse me, this is not a debate Board please. Emily Brady: My name ~s Emily Brady. I'm a homeowner at Summit Estates. We're not monsters, we don't scare anybody. We came here, spending a lot more money than... Mr Orlowski: Will you address the Board please? Ms. Brady: Yeah, I know. Mr. Regina seemed to take over the whole affair. · There's a beach there, there's a small beach. Mr. Regina wants us all to be concerned with where he swims. Honestly, I don't care if he does swim there or he doesn't. We dought it with the understanding that we had a beach. The dock was already there. We didn't construct the dock. We didn't ask them to take it away. We have rigf~ts also, and we have rights as homeowners that are coming in now. There are three of us at this point. I don't see that there are going to be 35 homeowners very soon We don't run children over with boats. None of us ever have yet and I don't think that's our intention either. And I don't want anybody to have the idea that because you came first, you have more rights. You don't. Thank you. Susan Hallock: Susan Hallock from Cleaves Point Condominium. There are numerous letters in the file from Victorian Realty representing Summit Estates through the years that have stated the only reason for the dock was for the use of the owner of lot 33. Not to pass it on to the buyers of their homes but for the owner of lot 33. This has changed; so originally they had no intentions of opening up the dock for their homeowners. Jim Tong (last name ~naudible): My name is Jim Tong. I'm from Cleaves Point Condominiums, and 1 think we've all agreed here tonight that if this resolution is passed that in theory we could end up with 35 boa~s at that Southold Town Planning Board 19 September 13, 1999 dock. Maybe not likely, but it could happen. I'd just like to read one sentence from the August 23rd letter from the Board of Trustees to the Planning Board which says, the Southold Town Board of Trustees sees no reason to change the use of the structure and would definitely not recommend a marina use for this structure. I Think if this resolution is passed, this will no happen. There will be a marina. Thanks. (Change tape.) Paulette McDonald: I'm Paulette McDonald. I own a house in the Summit Estates. If lot 33 is to retain this ownership of the dock, they don't have direct access to their dock, only through land that's owned by Summit Estates. So, it sounds like, to the opposition, this is proposing that a house that does not have direct access other than through the association. It's like picking one house out of the association or removing one house from the association in order to give it access to that dock. That dock is not attached to lot 33 in any shape or form. Tom Krause: I would ask the Board for a clarification, isn't lot 33 part of Summit Estates, and therefore part of the HOA? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Krause: Thank you Ms. McDonald: So that's taking one lot and giving it a dock for it's own use. I have ~ question though. How does this affect the tax burden to the area and is a docktaxed. I have no access to the dock currently. I do want to make one other commen~ before you answer that question, is that I don't know if a lot of people are driving down and kicking up dirt and all that, but it's not the homeowners and the people that have bought parcels of land. There's very little use of that area by us. Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments? Bob Ingram: My name is Bob Ingram. I live in Summit Estates on Shipyard Lane. I don't know if it's going to become a marina, ten or fifteen years or now. I would have grandchildren, I would like to nave them have access to that dock, to take them out there for fishing. We don't have that right now. Two years after I was there, there was a concern about trailers, outboard motors, real garbage. Two years after I was there, I came in front of this Board where they were coming in to ask for a variance in their Section I, and I took them to task to get this place and our common area cleaned up. I mean it was a pig sty. Bad. Tires...it was a p~g sty. If any of you walk, like you all say you walk through that area, you would have seen it and that's Southold Town Planning Board 2O September 13, 1999 when you should have been down here telling them about it. Rest assured, it is not going to end up with outboard motors, it's not going to end up with any kind of garbage or anything else. It's convenient to say that you put up your dock as a border, as a protection from other ~3eople, but that's not really what it was. You've got 11 slips out there. The condo association to the east of us has 28 to 30. You just did a big re-do of your dock there. Again, I'm not looking to get a boat slip there right now. All we want is to get the dock so I can take my grandchildren, maybe Paulette's grandchildren out there to do some fishing. That's all it is. Ten years from now, who knows what's going to happen? I agree with you. But, rest assured it's not going to end up as a pig sty. I see what goes on down there. He's not going to build any walls that's going to affect anybody else or anything like that, ill Know about it. And it's all on record that I've brought him here once before. Donna will verify it. That's all have to say. Thank yOU. Don Henry: Don Henry from Cleaves Point in response would like to reiterate that I don't think anyone here is opposed to the individuals in Summit Estates having access to the dock, to walk out, to fish No one has said that. Our major concern ~s the amount of boat traffic that would be generated, what that would do to the water and what it would do to the safety of the area. David Mam~na: Maybe a final comment, we'll see. I think based on the comments from the other gentleman who is a homeowner and what you said the state of it was and what might happen, and I don't know what will happen ten years from now, of course that's what we're all concerned about. As the Board well knows, both condominium associations that border this piece of land are represented by legal counsel There was a calculated decision made this evening not to come out with here's ~the gun. I mean we're all here as just citizens, taxpayers. No one is marching their attomies along with them. I think the thing that I would ask you, I believe that the Board does understand the potential gravity of the' decision that they might make whichever way they would make it, and the consequences whichever way they may make it. The only thing that I would ask you is that if there was going to be a resolution tonight, and if you felt that you could hold that resolution open and give our attorney a chance to comment and to react to some of the information presented to us, that would certainly be something that I think would not affect the big scheme of life in any way, and would then give all of us a fair chance to be represented. Thank you, Donna Geraghty: I just want to make one last comment and that is that in Southold Town Planning Board 21 September 15, 1999 light of all the information tlqat was requested by this Board, I think we have fulfilled and given you all the answers that you have asked for at this time, and I ask that you approve this this evening so that we can go forward. The developer, it is not his intention to live there. He would like to sell out the entire subdivision and be done with this and put it in the hands of the homeowners and the HOA and then move on. This is a business to him and it had taken much longer than he ever anticipated due to zoning regulations, due to water situation, and his intention is not to stay and live there. And I hear everything that everyone is saying but I ask you to approve it tonight so that we can go forward This is a business and that's the way we'd like to approach it. Thank you. Mr. Odowski: I take it that's it for comments? In a second I'm going to ask the Board's pleasure here. It's a tough call no matter I guess what we do one way or the other. The Board is going ~o convey this ~o the HOA at some point in time. The code is very specific in Bow it reads. Chapter 100-31 allows two boats, plus those owned by that person. I don't for the life of me see how you'd feel safer with one person owning that dock and two boats and another 20 boa[s that he could put there all by himselt:. I don't see that You may; I haven't been convinced of it. don't know if the Board is convinced of it. I think that the HOA would probably take better care of this jus~ like the two associations on each side, which monitors thief dock and their usage, whatever riley do. The Trustees have SpoKen and granted the permit for this dock. It's sitting there. I am just one vote. I personally think that no mat~er who owns this, unless you change the code, section 100-31, they [qave to go by what it says in the code or they are n violation. I personally feel that in the HOA its a lot safer than in one persons hands. It has a big house. It might have an idea of making a few extra dollars on the side by having ten or twenty boats on that dock and who is going to enforce it to go out there and see is he collecting cash or is he collecting a check or does he have a marina. Because I thinkyou might end up with a marina all by itself. You have two good HOA's on each side. I hope the one in the middle will be as cooperative as the two on the outside and can handle all these problems together. I don't see how changing this ownership can make it worse. That's my opinion. Does the Board have any comments? Mr. Ward: Mr. Orlowski, I think that the possibilities...since the spirit of this particular dock was to house only a couple of boats, that the potential of whatever it is to have more than that needs to be covered in some kind of a restriction which we don't really have a handle on tonight. My Southold Town Planning Board 22 September 1:3, 1999 recommendation would be to offer a resolution to hold this open until September 27 for two reason. One would be to take a look at what they've asked us to look at in a final sense. We all have looked at it before, But secondly that we take a look at a covenant that would restrict the numbers of boats that are concerned here and was not the spirit of the original dock. So I offer that resolution tonight. Mr. Latham: I'll second that. Mr. Cremers: The comment is the storage of boats on tl~e dock too. think that's something that we didn't address and maybe that should be addressed (inaudible). Mr. Orlowski: OK, 'Il entertain a motion to hold this i~earing open to address the number of boats that could be put at this site and I guess that will De in discussion with the applicant and we'll be.back i~ere in two more weeks. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. We're also going to entertain a motion to hold the second hearing open. Mr. Regina: I would like to thank the Board too for all its cooperation and listening to all of us. You have a very rough job and we appreciate your kindness. Mr. Orlowskk Motion made and seconded to hold the second hearing open. All those ~n favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS Setting of Final Hearings: Mr. Orlowski: Rocl(cove Estates - This major subdivision is for 23 lots on 28.315 acres located on the north side of Middle Road (CR48); approximately Southold Town Planning Board 25 500 feet west of McCann Lane in 0reenport. September I :~, 1999 SCTM# I000-53-3-I 9. Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following resolution. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, September 27, 1999 at 7:30 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps dated May 10, 1999. Mr. Latham: Second Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowsl(i, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Lead Agency Coordination: Mr. OrlowskJ: Shady Lady - This site plan is for the renovation of an existing restaurant and Bed & Breakfast, on second floor, SCTM# 1000-35-1~21 & 22. Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer this BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board start the lead agency coordination process on this unlisted actJon. Mr. Cremers: Second the motion. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. Lead Agency Designation: Mr. Orlowski: Port of Eq¥[}t - This site plan is for a 10,000 square foot boat storage building on 35,000 square feet located on Route 25 in Southold SCTM# 1000-56-4-11 & 13.2. Southold Town Ptanning Board 24 September I $, 1999 Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following resolution. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants a Negative Decl aration. Mr. Latham: Second Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOAED MINUTES Mr. Orlowski: Board to approve the July 19, 1999 minutes. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Mo~on made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. And August 16, 1999 minutes. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. Jod¥ Adams: May I ask you a question? I gather you're ending, but may I ask you a ques~tion? Southold Town Planning Board Mr, Orlowski: Yes, 25 September 15, 1999 Ms. Adams: Is there a dine in all this procedure when one can speak on an issue outside of the hearings? Mr. Orlowski: Well, right now I will ask if anybody would like to speak for the record and we're going to adjourn the meeting and go into a work session where you can... Ms. Adams: Right, but at the end of each thing after you've adjourned, after you've done all of this, you then ask the public if there is anything. Mr. Orlowski: I'll ask right now. Ms. Adams: But you do this at every meeting? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Ms. Adams: Even if it's empty? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Ms. Adams: And this is put on the record? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Ms. Adams: And it goes into your minutes? Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Did you want to make a comment? Ms. Adams: No. Next time, thank you. Mr. Orlowski: '!1 entertain a motion to adjourn. Mr. Cremers: So moved Mr. Orlowski: All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. Southold Town Planning Board 26 Sept:ember 1~, 1999 There being no further business so come before the Board, the meeting adjourned au 8:40 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Martha A. Jones Secretary RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK Tow~ Oo~k, Town of