HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-06/28/1999PLANNING BOARD MEMBer'S
BENNETT ORLOWSKI, JR.
Chairman
WILLIAM J. CREMERS
KENNETH L. EDWARDS
GEORGE PJTCHIE LATYIAM, JR.
RICHARD G. WARD
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southo]d, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
June 28, '1999
Present were: Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Ch airman
Richard G. Ward
G. Ritchie Latham
Kenneth Edwards
William Cremers
Melissa Spiro, Planner
Robert G. Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer
Martha Jones, Secretary
Absent: Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Mr. Ortowski: Good evening. I'd like to call this meeting to order. The first
order of Jgusiness, Board to set Monday, July 19, 1999 au 5:00 p.m. at
Southold Town Hall, Main Rd., Southold, as the time and place for the next
regular Planning Board meeting.
Mr. Cremers: So moved.
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr, Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
PUBLIC HEARINGS
Mr. Orlowski: K. Louise Noble BO.clar~ - This lot line change is to subtract
1.22 of an acre from a 1.37 acre parcel SCTM# 1000-10-6-2 and to add it to
a 1.01 acre parcel SCTM#1000-10-6-3; and to subtract .15 of an acre from
Southold Town Planning Board
2 June 28, 1999
the same 1.37 acre parcel SCTM# I000-10-6-2 and add it to a 3.57 acre
parcel SCTM# 1000-10-6-1.5. SCTM# 1000-6-1.5, 2 & 3. I'll ask if anybody has
any comments on these lot Line changes?
Pat Moore: Just one clarification I have been in touch with the Ferguson
Museum. Mrs, Bogart's intention is to prepare her wills in such a way that
the ultimate conveyances are going to be done by way of testamentary
gifts. Not an immediate transfer, but a testamentary transfer. So I just want
to make that real clear so that everybody is aware of it,
Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments? Hearing none, any questions from the
Board? Mr. Ward?
Mr, Ward: No.
Mr. Orlowskh Mr. Latham?
Mr. Latnam: No questions.
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Cremers?
Mr. Cremers: No.
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Edwards?
Mr. Edwards: Do we have the affidavits?
rvls. Moore: Yes,
Mr. Orlowski: If there are no further questions, I'll entertain a motion to close
the hearing.
Mr. Cremers: So moved.
Mr, Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded
those in favor?
Any questions on the motion? All
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr, Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. What's the pleasure of the Board?
Southold Town Planning Board :5 June 28, 1999
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, 'd like to entertain the following motion
WHEREAS, K. Louise Nobel Bogart is the owner of the proper[¥ known and
designated as SCTM# I000-10-6-1.t5, 2 & 3, located on Private Road, Fishers
Island; and
WHEREAS, this proposed lot line change is to subtract 1.22 of an acre from a
1.37 acre parcel SCTM# 1000-10-6-2 and to add it to a 1.01 acre parcel
SCTM#1000-10-6-3; and to subtract 15 of an acre from the same 1.37 acre
parcel SGTM# t000-10-6-2 and add it to a 3.57 acre parcel SCTM# 1000-10-
6-1.5; and
WHEREAS, The Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State
Environmental Quality Review Act, did an uncoordinated review of this
unlisted action, and made a determination of non-significance, and granted
a Negative Declaration on June 14, 1999; and
WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at
the Town Hall, Southold, New York on June 28, 1999; and
WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58,
Notice of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has
complied with the notification provisions; and
WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of
Southold nave been met; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final
approval on the surveys dated March 15, 1999, and authorize the Chairman
to endorse the final surveys subject to fulfillment of the following condition.
This condition must be met within six (6) months of the date of this
resolution:
The filing of new deeds pertaining to the merger of 1.22 of an acre from a
1.37 acre parcel SCTM# 10-6-2 and adding it to a 1.01 acre parcel SCTM#
1000-10-6-3, and the merger of .15 of an acre from the same 1.37 acre
parcel SCTM# 1000-10-6-2 and adding it to a 3.57 acre parcel SCTM# 1000-
10-8-1.5.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Southold Town Planning Board 4 June 28, 'i999
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Orlowski: Summit Estates - Section 4 - Section 4 of this major
subdivision is for one 4.3739 acre lot (Lot # 33). The property is
located off of Shipyard Lane in East Marion. SCTM# I000-38-7-p/o 10 (a.k.a.
SCTM# 1000-35-8-5.3). '11 ask if there are any comments on this major
subdivision?
Unknown: Who is here representing this?
Mr. Orlowski: There isn't anyone. For the record, we are going to hold this
hearing open because there is going to be another hearing held separately
on the dock, which will be held the next time we meet.
Unknown: So, in other words, nothing is really going to come of this hearing
right now in regards to this?
Mr. Orlowski: We'll be setting up a hearing. We're going to hold this hearing
open.
Ms. Spiro: There will be two hearings on July 19. One nearing in regard to
Summit Estates Section 4, which is the hearing tha~ we opened tonight and
we're holding it over until July 19; and another hearing in regard ~o a
condition of 8pproval for Summit Estates, the Declaration of Covenants and
Restrictions which involves the dock. The Planning Board is setting that
Nearing tonight.
Francis McNally: So we're really not going to resolve anything here tonight in
regards to this. We're just postponing this?
Mr. Ortowski: We'll nave a special hearing for that.
Ms. Spiro: You can make comments tonight if you wish.
Mr. McNally: I'd like to know the reason why this request...how come it was
such a long delay and now you want this?
Ms. Spiro: Summit Estates Section 4 was not put on the calendar by the
Planning Board. Well, it was on the Planning Board calendar, but the
Southold Town Planning Board 5
June 28,1999
applicant asked to have the Planning Board proceed with Section 4, so
you're asking for the delay since the Summit Estates Section I was
approved? Is that the delay you're talking about?
Mr. McNally: In regards to what they're requesting right now.
Ms. Spiro: But what delay?
Mr. McNally: Why did such a period of time go on from when this was initially
filed until now.
Mr. Orlowski: It's the process and this is Section 4. They sectionalized this
whole subdivision.
Tom Krause: My name is.Tom Krause and I'm also a resident of Crescent
Beach. Is this the appropriate time to ask the question why is Summit
Estates asking for this change in the subdivision and establishing Section 4?
Or should that be held until the 19th?
Mr. Orlowski: It's not a change. There always was 3 sections to Summit
Estates and this one lot here was always the fourth section
Ms Spiro: I can g ve you a history in just a couple of minutes. They star[ed
with all of Summit Estates. It was just all one. They then decided to make
three sections - Section I, Section'2, Section 3. The Planning Board
approved Section I in 1993. They had some difficulties obtaining Suffolk
County Water Authority approval for drinking water and so their preliminary
approval was extended during that time frame. There is an existing house
already on what they are calling Section 4, and they wish now to convey
Section 4 out separately and they can't do that until they get an approved
subdivision from the Planning Board. So that was always one of the lots. It
was lot number 33 in Section 3. It's a technical process, I guess just to split
it out. It's nothing new,
Mr. Krause: It's the process because they had in fact conveyed ownership of
that lot and the house on it, and so on and so forth, in 19957
Ms. Spiro: Probably.
Mr. Krause: Since we don't why it's going to happen, this is a comment from
a good number of people at Crescent Beach, when we don't understand
what Summit Estates is doing, we assume the worst, Decause we've had
some really bad experiences. So, does this change any rights that they have
Soul:hold Town Planning Board
6 June 28,1999
with regard to anything in the subdivision or that particular lot? Is there
something they can do when it becomes Section 4 that they cou dn't do
when it was Section 3 or when it was part of the overall subdivision?
Ms. Spiro: Whether it's called Section 3 or Section 4 is just a technical thing.
Mr. Krause: I remember your comment the other day that if they'd asked for
four sections in 1991 you would have g~ven them 4 sections. And that's fine
but it's really difficult to understand or to project what their intentions
might be at this stage in the game.
Mr. Ward: That's part of the process why we would have a hearing so that
we'd have them come forward and explain what they're doing and air it and
also that the general public can be there also.
Mr. Krause: OK, and your terminology tonight, when you said you're going to
hold the hearing open, does that mean no ~esolution and come back on tne
19th, for the rest of the hearing?
Mr. Ward: Yes.
Mr. Krause: Great, thankyou.
Mr. Orlowskh Any other comments? Hearing none, I'll entertain a motion
from the Board to hold this hearing open.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman i'd like to offer the following resolution.
WHEREAS, in 1993, the Planning Board granted final approval to Summit
Estates Section I; and
WHEREAS, at the time final approval was granted to Section 1, a dock existed
on the area shown as Summit Estates, Section I, Parcel "D' eark and
Recreation Area; and
WHEREAS, at the time final approval was granted to Section I, a house
existed on the area shown as Future Section 3, more particularly on the area
shown as Lot #33 of the overall Summit Estates subdivision; and
WHEREAS, in accordance with a condition of approval for Summit Estates
Section 1, a Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions was recorded in the
County Clerk's Office for the Summit Estates subdivision; and
Southold Town Planning Board 7 June 28, '~999
WHEREAS, Condition Number 11 of the recorded document contains the
following restriction: "The dock, and any further expansion of such, cannot
be conveyed separately from Lot No. 33 except by permission of the
$outhold Town Planning Board a~ter a public hearing, and if such conveyance
shall be allowed, it shall be to the owner(s) of the park and recreation area
only."; and
WHEREAS, as per the Southold Town Tax Assessors' records, the area know as
Section 4, Lot Number 33, is owned by Panagiotis Mourkakos, and the area
know as Parcel "D" is owned by Gusmar Realty Corp.; and
WHEREAS, the conveyance from one properw owner to the other took place
without a public hearing as required by Condition Number I'] of the
Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions; and
WHEREAS, since the Planning Board's approval to Section 4 will allow the
conveyance of Lot Number 33 to be formalized, the Planning Board has
decided that the public hearing in accordance with Condition Number 11 of
the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions must take place prior to the
Planning Board granting any approval to the proposed Section 4; be it
therefore
RESOLVED to hold the final hearing for Summit Estates, Section 4 open until
such time that the public hearing in accordance with Condition Number 11
of the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions is concluded.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion?
Mr. Krause: With reference to that part 11, am I to understand that in fact
some conveyance of the private dock was made from the subdivision to the
private lot number 33, or attempted or something?
Mr. Orlowski: The land was part of lot 33 and always was. But the intent I
think was to use if for...
Ms. spiro: The dock is located on the park and playground parcel D, which
is.. rthe intent is to have that owned by the Homeowners Association. The,
dock is physically located on that piece of land. Lot number 33 has always
been a separate lot from the beginning, before there were any sections, it
was a separate lot.
$outhold Town Planning Board 8 June 28, ']999
Mr. Krause: So the land, the 100 foot wide strip that gives access to
Oardiners Bay is intended to I~e owned by the Homeowners Association?
Ms. Spiro: Yes.
Mr. Krause: is the dock intended to be owned by the Homeowners
Association?
Ms. Spiro: That's what wil
Mr. Ward: We're not sure.
have to be resolved by the hearing.
That's the reason we're having a public Nearing.
Mr. Krause: Does the previous approval su[]gest a preference by the Planning
Board?
Mr. Ward: Not necessarily. I can't speak for the Board as a whole.
Mr. Krause: Is your assumption that the dock is part of the recreation area
and owned by the Homeowners Association, or there is no assumption?
Mr. Ward: There is no assumption.
Mr. Krause: Is there a way of finding out whether or not the dock is, in terms
of Gusmar Realty or summit or anybody, held separate from the recreation
area?
Ms. Spiro: I did a quick review of the deeds and I don't see any mention in
the deeds whether parcel A or parcel B owns the dock. It's silent on that,
which is something that will have to be resolved at the time of this public
hearing. And that will be a resolution of the public hearing.
Mr. Krause: Thank you.
Mr. Orlowski: Any other questions on the motion, All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a further motion. Be it further
resolved to set July 19, 1999, at 5:00 p.m. for a public hearing in accordance
with Condition Number 11 of the Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions
for Summit Estates. Condition Number 1 t reads asfollows:
Southold Town Planning Board 9 June 28, 1999
The dock, and any further expansion of such, cannot be conveyed
separately from Lot No. 53 except by permission of the Southold Town
Planning Board after a public hearing, and if such conveyance shall be
allowed, it shall be to the owner(s) of the park and recreation area
only."
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made,and seconded. Any questions on that motion?
All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings:
Mr. Orlowski: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is for 2 lots on
3.7648 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck Rd. in Mattituck.
SCTM# 1000-I 13-8-5.
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'.11 offer the following. BE IT RESOLVED to hold
the hearing open due to litigation pending in the Supreme Court. The next
Planning Board meeting is scheduled for July 19, 1999 at 5:00 p m.
Mr, Edwards: Second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr, Edwards, Mr. Cremers,
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF
APPLICATIONS
Sketch Determinations:
Southold Town Planning Board I 0 June 28, 1999
Mr. Orlowski: Orville Terry. Jo¥ce Terry & Edward Wysocki- This proposal is to
set off a 1.84 acre parcel (Lot #I) from a 32.33 acre parcel. The remaining
oarcel (Lot #2) is 30.49 acres, of which the Town has purchased the
Development Rights on 28.65 acres. The property is located on the north
side of Main Rd,(NYS Rt. 25) in Orient. $CTM# 1000-20-1-3.2, 3.3, & 3.4.
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following resolution.
WHEREAS, the subject property includes three separate tax parcels (SCTM#
1000-20-1-3.2, I000-20-I-3.3 and t000-20-1-3.4; and
WHEREAS, the three separate tax parcels where created by the conveyance
of a life estate from Terry to Wysocki and the sale of the development rights
to the Town of Southold on 28.65 acres; and
WHEREAS, the subdivision application shows the three tax parcels as one
piece of property, and proposes to create a 1.84 acre parcel (Lot #I), and a
30.49 acre parcel (Lot #2) on which the development rights have been sold
on 28.65 acres and the development rights remain intact on 1.84 acres; and
WHEREAS, there is an existing house located on Lot #I and there is an
existing house located on the 1.84 acre area of Lot #2 on which the
development rights remain intact; be it therefore
RESOLVED that the Planning Board grant sketch approval on the map dated
May 26, 1999.
rvlr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those ~n favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Mr. Cremers: In addition, be it further resolved that due to the fact that
there is an existing house on each of the proposed lots, and the
development rights have been sold on the remainder of the property, that
the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental
Quality Review Act, do an uncoordinated review of this unlisted action. The
Planning Board establishes itself as lead agency, and as lead agency makes a
determination of non-significance, 'and grants a Negative Declaration.
Southold Town Planning Board 1'1 June 28, '1999
Mr. Edwards: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded.
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
Any questions on the motion? All
MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF
APPLICATIONS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT
Determinations:
Mr. Odowski: Deerfield Farm - This application is for a lot line change and a
minor subdivision. The lot line change is to subtract 0.569 acres from an
existing 7.93'1 acre parcel and to add it to an existing 0.34 acre parcel
(SCTM# 1000-88-1-2). The minor subdivision is for 4 lots on 7.362
acres. The property is located on the northwest corner of Main
Bayview Road and Jacobs Lane. SCTM# 1000-88-'1-I & 2.
Mr. Cremers: I'll offer the following. Be it resolved that the Southold Town
Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act,
assumes lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-
significance, and grants a Negative Declaration.
Mr. Edwards: Second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowsl(i: Opposed? Motion carried.
SITE PLANS
SeLLing of Final Hearings:
Southold Town Planning Board 12 June 28, 1999
Mr. Orlowskk North Fork Bank & Trust - This proposed amended site plan is
for a 7,100 square foot storage addition to an existing office building,
n Mattituck. $CTM# 1000-122-6-20 & 22.
Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, i'll entertain the following motion. BE IT
RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board set Monday, July 19, 1999
at 5:05 p.m. for a final public hearing on the maps dated December 4, 1998.
Mr. Cremers: Second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All
those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. OrlowsKi, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried.
SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT
Determinations:
Mr~ Orlowski: Hellenic Ca_bins - This proposed amended site plan is for
approval to demolish existing structures consisting of two (2) storage
buildings, a shower structure, five (5) two unit cabins, nine (9) one unit
cabins, and a two stow frame house which contains two apartments, on a
1.52 acre parcel; to allow for the construction of four (4) two stow frame
cabins containing a total of 20 units (2 containing 6 units and 2 containing 4
un[ts). Additionally, the applicant proposes to construct an 811 square foot
office building, and a swimming pool and spa. Twenty-eight (28) additional
parking stalls will be added along the access drive to accommodate the
proposed structures, with additional paved walkways between the buildings,
restaurant and office building. SCTM# 1000-35-2-14 & 15. Does the Board
have any pleasure?
Pat Moore: We're all here if you'd like to discuss it before you make your
decision. We're kind of at a loss because there hasn't been much
communication with the applicant as far as what your ideas are. The main
concern we have is that you decide to Positive Dec this application, when 'n
fact this could be achieved througi~ additional information from the
applicant to the Board, if we knew what exactly you wanted from us. And
that obviously can be done, as you know, from an extended Part I17 I don;t
Southold Town Planning Board 15 June 28, 1999
know if it's A, B or 2, but in any case we can give you more information with
regard to the environmental assessment form.
in addition, there are ..limited business is right now a ;)lus, with respect to
zoning changes. At worse, we're still pre-existing. At best, the zoning
changes are proposed that might help this application. We don't know, but I
believe that if you were to Positive Dec just because of issues that it's a pre-
existing use, then that's an issue that will oe resolved through the zoning
process with the proposals that should be coming through, at least
presented to the Board, within the next two weeks.
We're here to answer whatever questions you have. The main issue which I
know from our field inspection where you were all kind enough with the
Zoning Board to do a joint walk through, the main issue was the sanitary
system. We have public water there, but it was the sanitary system. We
went to the Board of review and did get through that process favorably. $o
that issue has been resolved and that is ithink, at least in Southold, the ma~n
issues that come before...l'd say before the Board, but it's an issue that
you're always concerned about, but there's an agency that resolved it.
As far as the typical site plan issues that you're concerned with are drainage,
parking, traffic, if we can identify what of those ~ssues you would like more
information on, we're willing to submit that to you if you would like. I don't
want everybody to jump into a position that then requires...if you Positive
Dec it we now have to set a public hearing to rescind a Positive Dec, whereas
if we have an extended EAF, we can discuss what your concerns are and
then go from there. $o, we're here ready to listen to whatever comments
you might have, but I'd like to discuss it, notjustjump into a resolution
(Change tape).
Mr. Ward: Ithink, if we have a project here that if it was the proper zone,
you would have five times the density here in units than we would allow
normally under the zone that this would allow, which certainly in my opinion
is a Positive Dec.
Ms. Moore: Well, keeping in mind that it's a pre-existing use that is probably
the foremost issue and that's why we've peen trying to get before the
Zoning. Board to establish to what extent we're entitled to continue those
uses and modify them. think as a matter of case law and as a matter of
right, those units -- if nothing happens, there are more than 20 units, 21
with the apartments. What we're proposing to do is eliminate, consolidate
and re-build it in such a way that they'll be to code, they'll be certainly 100%
better than what they are today. So if anything, we're making positive
Sour;hold Town Planning Board
14 June 28,1999
improvements to the property, positive impact on the environment, not
negative impact on the environment.
You can't eliminate a pre-existing use. You can't penalize them because they
have a pre-existing use. And they way I see the SEQRA process in a Positive
Dec is to penalize them rather than to encourage whatever tailoring you
want to make this project better. And that's what the site plan process ~s all
about, is your influence on an applicant to make the project better. Not to
make it economically impossible for them to see an application through. The
SEQRA process can be used either cooperatively or as a sword And don't
want it to be used as a sword.
Mr. Odowski: Well, I don't think we intend at all to use it as a sword, but on
the face of it looking at it, I believe the tax card shows 16 units. You're
asking for 20 units. There are a lot of unresolved questions. There was
hearing at the Health Department that we didn't Know about it and never
got any notice of until six months after the approval. In talking To the Health
Department, they weren't sure how that happened. You have property
there that's located next to, as a matter of fact Suffolk County Water
Authority owns part of that property that you're leasing, that they have no
intent of selling. They may have a comment on this. And I think by
proceeding through the SEQRA process will be the way to get all the answers
that we want.
Ms. Moore: I see that there are alternatives on this. As far as the Suffolk
County Water Authority (SCWA), the SC:WA had made a communication with
them to deem it surplus property because their well site up at the far end I
don't believe is usable anymore, it hasn't been used in a long time because
of what they can get out of that well, but even so the only area that we've
used and it's been leased for the past ten years and that lease was renewed
think three or four years ago, is for parking. And that's worked out very well
for both sides. Certainly Greenport generated income from it and Hellenic
has used it as a logical place for their parking for their restaurant.
The water issues, you can't just say well, we didn't know about the hearing.
The hearing went through the process and they are the ones who determine
sanitary and water and that was resolved and it was in our favor. So, really
the Planning Board and the .Town...that's what the Health Department is for
and that has been resolved. We're not going to re-evaluate ail the Health
Department issues with the Planning Board. That's inappropriate. So
whatever questions you make with respect to the SEQRA process, the Health
Department has already resolved that issue. Your issues are parking,
drainage, lighting, your standard litany of site plan issues And those can be
Southold Town Planning Board 15 June 28, 1999
addressed. We're willing to address them with' you.
A Positive Dec won't,' again, it's just going to be an economic process, an
expensive one, that's going to lead to the same information, the same
conclusions through a different way. We can give you that information if we
know what they are. So far the communication has been submit a long form
EAF That's it. If you ask us, well we'd like some additional information on
drainage, Young and Young is prepared to give it to you. In fact thinkthe
site plan probably has more information than you typically see on site plans.
Parking, again, the parking is leased and it's there and we don't really have
any end in site for that. We propose to continue those leases and we
propose to buy the property. SCWA doesn't have to choose to sell it to us
but they can certainly...they're qot going to use that area as a well site,
that's clear. It's surrounded by the golf course so about one of the only
comments that I got was well what about the buffer between the two uses?
It seems kind of silly to buffer that property from the beautiful golf course.
It doesn't make sense, but those are issues that we can discuss.
I hate to see us do it through this public hearing process. We can certainly
do it through a work session and ask us for information or ask us what are
your concerns. Density, fine, but there is an existing restaurant that has
been there forever and it went through a site plan process. The cottages
are existing -- they're there. And if they chose to fix them up and slap some
paint on, they're still going to oe flushing, they're still going to be using the
water and they're still going to be sleeping in there. So, what we're
proposing is a thousand times better, t's a major investment in this
property. So far I haven't heard any arguments, any logical reasons to
Positive Dec it.
Mr. Orlowski: Does the Board have any questions?
George Giannaris: I'm George Giannar~s. My father is part owner of the
Hellenic Cabins and Snack Bar, Inc. I would like to see some kind of
clarification for the reason behind such a tremendous expense, We've
already spent almost si00,000.00 in three and a half years trying to get
through the largest environmental impact which obviously is to the water
supply and we've gotten approval for that, so if you are going to go through
with this I would appreciate to understand why -- some Kind of clarification
so that it makes sense to us.
We would rather IDe able to I~e up and running. Obviously, the capital
'nvestment would increase our property taxes which would be a benefit to
Southold Town Planning Board 16 June 28, 1999
the community. We would rather start paying taxes than pay 30 some odd
thousand dollars for this ~<ind of analysis if it's completely unnecessary. If
you could come up with a logical reason for why it is necessary, then
obviously we have so do it, but I just would like to know why basically.
Mr. Orlowskh Well, as you know most of the town is basically 2 acre zoning;
that's I unit per 2 acres. You have 1.5 acres, you're asking for 20 units and a
70 seat restaurant, with outside seating for 70 more. That's pretty intense ~n
anybody's book. If we go through the SEQRA process, which the Board
would like to do, we nave the scoping session where we'll all sit down and
discuss it and where the outside agencies will have a chance to get involved
and ask questions. Like I've said, talking with the Water Authority, they are
already asking questions. You're ~easing the parking, you're adding to it and
there's two and a half acres there, maybe the Health Department will have
some comments that they thought that was yours and it wasn't. But don't
Know that. But this Board would like to get all the answers, because this will
be the most dense and intense used acre and a half in the whole Town of
Southold.
Ms, Moore: That may be true, however, it is already. What we're doing is
proposing replacement.
Mr. Orlowski: Is anybody staying there right now?
Mr. Giannaris: tn the cabins right now?
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Giannaris: The cabins, up until about three years ago were rented
publicly. At that point we were applying to renovate them. Then we
stopped renting to the public and we rented to cus:omers that we've had
for 10-I 5 years and family where people would come in and stay for a week,
two weeks, three Weeks. Right now there is a cabin that is being occupied.
The guy has had his stuff there for seven or eight years. They are no longer
in any kind of condition to be rented to the public. The m~ain unit, the main
house is occupied. We were under the impression that rather than put any
more expense into fixing these up, patching them up, we would do it right
and basically take what we have there rightfully, pre-existing for the past 75
years -- Brown's Cabins was established approximately, maybe even longer
than that.
Ms. Moore: In fact, to add to this, in the Town Clerk's records, when you
purchased Brown's Cabins, the Town'ClerK, the Town Board had stated that
Southold Town Planning Board '17 June 28, '1999
there were 50 people that were authorized to stay there. That's now intense
-- the cabins, not the restaurant, just the cabins -- that has been -educed to
a certain extent to the one or two or however number of guests that can
occupy the cat}ins there today. But that's what they were, when you talk
about intensity of use, that's now intense it was. And, if anything, this
proposal is a significant decrease to what it had legitimately been set up as.
· ' e
Those cabins were very intense, and Brown s Cabins, th y were an institution
out here, just as their restaurant and these cabins have been.
So, to say that this is the most intense property, well, that's the way it's
been. And I object to your use of the SEQRA process to try to lessen the use
just because you're tying to, let's see what the Health Department can say,
let's see what the Water Authority can say, let's see who can complain the
'oudest so that we can reduce you through economic means. And that's
JUSt nOt appropriate. There is a conditional Negative Dec process, that would
give additional information, if that's what you want, that's available to us.
It's an unlisted action, so a conditional Negative Dec is always available for an
unlisted action
To Positive Dec it at this point just seems an extreme measure. I can't recall
the number of Positive Dec's you've done in town And most recently some
very big applications have come through and they haven't been Positive
Decked, they've been done as unlisted actions through extended
information being submitted on the environmental assessment form. That's
the appropriate mechanism, not a Positive Dec with a scoping and then a full
DEIS and then a final DEIS. That is the extreme for projects that would be
71,000 square feet, like North Fork Bank addition. That's the kind of a
project that typically something over 4,000 square feet m ght icad to a
Positive Dec. Not replacement of cabins for 20 units to make them meet
state code and invest whatever n umber of th ousands of dollars into the
community. It just doesn't make sense.
Mr. Giannaris: It seems that there's two ways of approaching this. We can
take away the units and put up.something that's appropriate for the
community or we can just simply fix up what we nave. Either way, we're
going to have units that are operational. If we were to slap some paint on
them, put down new floors, fix a light switch here or there; replace the
flushing systems and all that, we wouldn't even need approval for that.
Basically, if we lqave to add this kind of expense then we're just going to go
and fix the units that we have.
For $30,000.00 we can do a beaut fuljob in those cabins. They'll look
gorgeous and the people who come out here for a week-end won't even
Southold Town Planning Board
18 June28, f1999
care. They'll still stay in them. They're staying in places that are pretty much
worse off right now. You keep mentioning that we're proposing [o do
something. We're not proposing anything, we're trying to fix up a pre-
existing condition. If we had purchased and acre and half or two and a
quarter acres down the road and we're proposing to put up 20 units, then I
could see you're absolutely right, but it's not the case.
Are we taking advantage of a pre-existing condition? Yes, we absolutely are.
That's what we have and that's what we want to work with. If anything, by
doing this we're actually mitigating the negative effects on the water supply
by eliminating the number of units and putting in the proper cesspool
systems. Now, each cabin, or every other cabin shares a simple septic tank
Or whatever is in the ground, a cesspool. If you see the plans, what we have
there is up to code and I don't understand why waste water management
has to [3e brought into an issue that's already Deen resolved on their behalf.
They've made their piece; they've given us the permission to go forth. Why
should it happen again? It doesn't make sense to me.
But I understand your concern and I respect the Board I am a member of
this community and I do want to live here and I don't like seeing things that
go up that are going to take away from the peace of the town that I grew
up in and that I love. And I respect your opinion and I respect what you're
doing, but we have to bear in mind that this ~s an establishment that's been
here for 25 years and probably 50-75 years before that. We have to respect
thai grandfatherect condition, I believe.
Mr. Orlowski: What's the Board's pleasure? The Board will hold this unti the
next meeting and we'll discuss it and we'll look at it again. Maybe we'll have
you in for a work session.
Ms. Moore: Keep in mind, as the applicant's attorney, want the process to
be done right because in the end when the approvals are obtained those
approvals could be challenged, so we want to see the SEQRA process done
properly, we want to cross our T's and dot our I's, but there are ways of
doing it and there are ways of stopping projects...
Mr. Orlowski: I guess our concern is mostly the intensity ot: the whole proJect
and it sounds like you're willing to talk about that, so let's talk about it.
Ms Moore: OK, I think dialogue certainly is always available.
Mr. Orlowski: Board to approve the Planning Board minutes of June 14, 1999.
Southold Town Planning Board '19 June 28, '1999
Mr. Ward: So moved
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made ant seconded. All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried, have nothing left on my agenda.
Anyone Rave anything to say for the recora, they can, otherwise I' entertain
a motion to adjourn and we'll go into a work session and you can all hang
around and make comments then.
Mr. Latham: I move we adjourn.
Mr. Edwards: Second
Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded All those in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting
adjourned at 5:47 ~3.m.
Bennett Orlowsl~i, Jr.~ Chair~l'
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK
Town Clerk, To~ of ~uthold
Respectfully submitted,
Ma rtha A. Jones
Secretary