Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-05/03/1999PI~NNIN~ ~O~D M~MBE~a ~ENN~T~ ORLOWSKI, ~R. Chairman WILLIAM J. CREMERS KENNETH L. EDWARDS GEORGE RITCYIIE LATHAM, JR. RICHARD G. WARD Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-3136 Telephone (516) 765-1938 Present were: Absent: PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MINUTES May ~, '1999 Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Chairman Richard G. Ward G. Ritchie Latham Kenneth Edwards William Cremers Melissa Spiro, Planner Robert G. Kassner, Site Plan Rewewer Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner Martha Jones, Secretary (left 7:40 p.m.) Mr. Orlowski: Good evening. I'd like to cai this meeting To order. The first order of business, Board to set Monday, May 24, 1999 at 7:30 p.m. at Southold Town Hall, Main Rd., Southold, as the time and place for the next regular Planning Board meeting. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. PUBLIC HEARINGS Mr, Orlowski: Estate of William Goubeaud - This proposed minor subdivision is for 2 lots on 1.461 acres located on Pine Neck Road in Southold Town Planning Board 2 May 3, 1999 Southold. SCTM# '1000-70-'10-:57. I'll ask if there are any comments on this minor subdivision? Pat Moore: I have the green cards and one returned envelope. Mr. Orlowski: Anyone else have any cards? Any questions from the Board? Mr. Ward? Mr. Ward: No. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Latham? Mr. Latham: No. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Cremers? Mr. Cremers: No. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Edwards? Mr. Edwards: None. Mr. Orlowski: If there are no further questions, I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowskh Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. What's the Board's pleasure? Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following. WHEREAS, the Estate of William F. (;oubeaud is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM# '1000-70-'10-:57, located on Pine Neck Road in Southold; and WHEREAS, this proposed minor subdivision, to be known as minor subdivision for the Estate of William F, C;oubeaud, is for 2 lots on '1.46'1 acres; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Southotd Town Planning Board $ May ;5, 1999 Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself lead agency and issued a Negative Declaration on July 14, 1997; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58, Notice of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has complied with the notification provisions; and WHEREAS, a final public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on May 3, 1999; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold will be met upon the fulfillment of the folloWing conditions; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final approval on the surveys dated July 23, 1997, and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys subject to fulfillment of the following conditions. All conditions must be met within six (6) months of the date of this resolution: The submitted draft Declaration of Covenants and Restrictions must be reviewed by the Planning Board and the Town Attorney. Once approved, the document must be filed in the office of the County Clerk and the Liber and Page number of the recorded document must be noted on the final map. Final maps, (5 paper copies and 2 mylars) all containing a valid stamp of approval from the Health Department, and the Liber and Page number of the recorded Declaration must be submitted. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowskh Motion made and seconded1 Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? MOtion carried. Mr. Orlowski: Ellen McCance Parker & Thomas McCance - ThiS proposed lot line change is located on Sappho Road and a r-o.w from Fox Ave., on Fishers Southold Town Planning Board 4 May 5, '1999 Island. SCTM# 1000-6-5-5.4 & 12. I'll ask if there are any comments on this proposed lot line change? Bill Ryell: My name is Bill Ryell. I'm the architect for Ellen McCance Parker and I'm handling the application. I need to give you the affidavit of posting and also the receipts for sending off the notice to all the adjacent property owners. Mr. Orlowski: OK. Any other comments? Hearing none, any questions from the Board? Mr. Ward? Mr. Ward: No. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Latham? Mr. Latham: No. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Cremers? Mr. Cremers: No. Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Edwards? Mr. Edwards: None. Mr. Orlowski: If there are no further questions, I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Edwards: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. What's the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to entertain the following motion: WHEREAS, Thomas McCance is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM# 1000-6-5-5.4 and Ellen McCance Parker is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM# 1000-6-5-12, located on Southold Town Planning Board 5 May $, 1999 Sappho Road and a r-o-w from Fox Ave.; and WHEREAS, this proposed lot line change is to subtract 1,252 square feet from the Ellen McCance Parker property and to add it to the Thomas McCance property; and to subtract 1,252 square feet from the Thomas McCance property and to add it to the Ellen McCance Parker property; and WHEREAS, the two lots involved in the lot line application are Lots Number 3 and 4 of a four lot subdivision for Elizabeth McCance, which was approved by the Planning Board in 1990; and WHEREAS, prior to the Planning Board's 1990 subdivision approval, the lots within the subdivision received area variances from the Zoning Board of Appeals (1989 Appeal #3798); and WHEREAS, as noted in a letter dated April 2, 1999, from Jerry Goehringer, ZBA Chairman, the ZBA has no objection to the exchange in the lot-line application as long as it does not change the final area of the lots shown on the map last dated March 2, 1999 and as long as the owner has met the other conditions related to the prior ZBA decision; and WHEREAS, the lot line application has been designed so that the final area of the lots remain the same; and WHEREAS, the Planning Board has received a notarized letter dated March 29, 1999, from Thomas McCance, stating that the kitchen has been removed from the accessory cottage in compliance with the ZBA condition; WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself lead agency and issued a Negative Declaration on April 5, 1999; and WHEREAS, a fina public hearing was closed on said subdivision application at the Town Hall, Southold, New York on May 3, 1999; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58, Notice of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has complied with the notification provisions', and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Subdivision Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; be it therefore Southold Town Planning Board 6 May3,1999 RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board grant conditional final approval on the surveys dated March 30, 1999, and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final surveys subject to fulfillment of the following condition. The condition must be met within six (6) months of the date of this resolution: 11 New deeds reflecting the lot line change must be filed for each parcel. Copies of the recorded deed must be submitted to this office. Mr. Cremers: Second the motion. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr: Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. Hearings Held Over From Previous Meetings: Mr. Orlowski: Eleanor Sievernich - This minor subdivision is for 2 lots on 3.7648 acres located on the east side of Cox Neck Rd. in Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-113-8-5. This hearing was originally opened on January 25, 1999 and it still has litigation pending in the Supreme Court and I think the Board will move ahead on this and the condition or whatever comes out of the Supreme Court decision, this might change. I don't know if anybody has any comments now. This hearing is still open. Gall Wickham: If I understood the Chairman, and I understand why you would like To close this file after it's been before you for so many years, there is a trial that has been conducted. The trial has been concluded on two alternate cia ms of the Sidorowicz's to the north. The first is the claim to a title to a portion of the property on the north side. And there's an alternate claim to prescriptive easement for a right of way along that north side of the property. The briefs are now due in a matter of a few days and we do expect a decision shortly, probably within a few weeks. Since the Eloard has had this file for, don't know, 8 years? I'm not even sure what the date is. I wonder if you might consider waiting just a few weeks longer so that you would be able to make a decision based on A. What the line is on the north side and Southold Town Planning Board 7 May ;5, 1999 therefore what the setback would be for the building line; and B. Whether there is an easement that would address the issue of whether or not there is a front yard issue along the north side, which we maintain there is and it was confirmed with Mr. Richter at the Building Department when I last spoke to him on this issue. So, again, knowing that you've had it a long time I'd hate to see the Board in the course of just a few weeks have to grant a decision that might have to be changed. And what if you do and they proceed to building in the meantime. I don't know what the status of the application or the decision would be. So, that's all I have to say. It's a little confusing to me how that would work, particularly since we are, I think, quite close to a decision from the court. Mr. Orlowski: Is Mr. Salvatore here, the attorney for...? Ms. Spiro: No. I discussed the situation with Mr. Salvatore and he knew he wasn't going to be here and he's aware that the map may need to be changed and asked the Planning Board to proceed anyway. Mr. Orlowski: Well, Mr. Salvatore has asked to proceed with the approval pending the subdivision and agreed to amend the map as per the litigation, when that's over. And the conditions, covenants and restrictions are... Ms. Spiro: None of this is in the covenants and restrictions, it's a separate issue. It has to do with the building envelope. If I understand it correctly, if the right of way agreement goes a certain way it could affect the front yard setback because it may establish a new front yard that is now, instead of just a driveway, it's a right of way. Ms. WJckham: Easement of ingress and egress, which is a right of way. Ms. Spiro: Right, sothe Building Department could make that determination that they need a different front yard setback. Mr. Cremers: Did Mr. Salvatore write the letter? Ms. Spiro: Mr. Salvatore wrote a letter, it was a very short letter, and said he was not coming tonight and could we proceed. Mr. Cremers: Did he write anything that he would agree to change this, in writing, or just verbally? Southold Town Planning Board 8 May $, '1999 Ms. Spiro: No, it was a verbal agreement, and I read him these two paragraphs and he was aware of what the two paragraphs were. Mr. Cremers: I think you need a written (inaudible). Mr. Orlowski: Well, counsel brought a good question, if they apply tomorrow for a building permit. Ms. Wickham: How can you approve a map that they agree to change? I don't know how you can do that. Ms. Spiro: As the map stands today, though, there's no front yard, it's a side yard. It's a neighborly dispute, so to speak. Mr. Ward: So, somebody has to make that determination first then. Ms. WJckham: We maintain that there is and that's what we're asking the court to determine. There's been no adjudication but there is a road there and we maintain that we have a right to use it and legally it has to be... Ms. Spiro: A driveway, right? Ms. Wickham: Yes. Ms. Spiro: He's got a driveway, so it's when it switches from the technical from a driveway to a right of way that makes lt..just because you have a driveway doesn't make you have a front yard setback. Ms. Wickham: Given the confusion, I think maybe I would ask that you wait. Unknown: There shouldn't be any confusion it's just that someone else is using this property who had first possession. The driveway has been used for some time. They cleared property: They cleared trees. And I've been involved with this here for a lot of meetings and basically it,s been to court we're just waiting for a reserve decision and I'm not an attorney, but it just seems fair that this should be able to be passed and we can go on from here, We've been just trying for 11 or 12 years. Mr. Orlowski: Your attorney's letter isn't quite clear enough. I don't know how the Board feels about making a decision. All we've got is a note from him that he wouldn't be here tonight. Unknown: Well, he called plus he sent a couple of letters. Southold Town Planning Board 9 May :5, 1999 Mr. Orlowski: Well, since it's been 10 or 12 years I guess if we hold it until the next meeting ... Ms. Wickham: Believe me, we want to get rid of it too. Mr. Orlowski: We would like to get rid of it also but you do have conditional approval anyway. Unknown: Did you see this letter? I don't know if this is the one that was submitted? Mr. Orlowski: That's the one we have but it doesn't say much or guarantee much. If he was here it probably would be a little bit better understanding. I don't see a problem one way or the other but you did bring up a good question about obtaining a building permit and where your front yard is, so I'll entertain a motion to hold the hearing open. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Latham: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. Unknown: When will this come up again now? Mr. Orlowski: Next meeting is May 24. Mr. Orlowski: Richard Reinhardt - This minor subdivision is for 3 lots on 20.3995 acres. Proposed lot #1 is for 16.6060 acres of which the development rights have been sold on 14.6060 acres. The prOposed subdivision is located on the northeast side of Alvah's Lane, 2873 feet north of Main Rd. in Cutchogue. SCTM# 1000-102-4-5. Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion. BE IT RESOLVED to hold the hearing open pending receipt of Health Southold Town Planning Board Department approval. 10 MayS, 1999 The next Planning Board meeting is scheduled for May 24, 1999 at 7:30 p.m. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? those in faVor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. All Mr. Orlowski: Hay Harbor Club - This proposed site plan is for the demolition of an existing 5,012 square foot golf club house and the construction of a 6,272 square foot golf club house on a 37.3 acre parcel on Fishers Island. SCTM# 1000-9-12-8.1. Are there any comments while the hearing is still open? Pat Moore: I have the green cards that have been returned. I can try to answer any questions that you might have. Mr. Orlowski: Any questions from the Board? Mr. Edwards: I'm sorry wasn't here at the last meeting but I read the minutes and I think I took a little heat in asking for the hearing to be held open and 'd like to tell you why. We live in a little bit of a different world on Fishers sland and the advertising for the hearing came out I think in Thursday's paper and the meeting was Monday, and there are I think 410 people that are members of that club and t think five only ive there year round so I didn't feel that that was fair to hold and close the hearing that quickly and I thought it would give them a little more chance to respond if they wanted to. As you know there was a little controversy at the beginning when it started I don't know what it was all about but at least I wanted to give them a fair shot at making some comments And as of today, according to Bob Kassner, we i~ad no comments for or against so I would entertain a motion to close the hearing. Mr. Latham: Second. Southold Town Planning Board 11 MayS, 1999 Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those ~n favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. What's the pleasure of the Board? Mr. Edwards: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to entertain the following motion. WHEREAS, this site plan, to be known as site plan for Hay Harbor Club, is for the demolition of an existing 5,012 square foot golf club house and the construction of a 6,272 square foot golf club house; and WHEREAS, Hay Harbor Club, Inc. is the owner of the property known and designated as SCTM# 1000-9-12-8.1, on Heathuile Ave., Fishers Island; and WHEREAS, a formal application for the approval of this site plan was submi~ed on July 20, 1998; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to the State Environmental Quality Review Act, (Article 8), Part 617, declared itself lead agency and issued a Negative Declaration on April 6, 1998; and WHEREAS, a stipulation of agreement was reached between the Zoning Board of Appeals and Hay Harbor Club, Inc. regarding parking arrangements; and WHEREAS, this site plan was certified by Michael Verity, Building Inspector, on April 27, 1999, subject to certification of setbacks of adjacent parcels; and WHEREAS, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Chapter 58, Notice of Public Hearing, has received affidavits that the applicant has complied with the notification provisions; and WHEREAS, all the requirements of the Site Plan Regulations of the Town of Southold have been met; be it therefore RESOLVED, that the Southold Town Planning Board approve and authorize the Chairman to endorse the final survey with the Suffolk County Department of Health Services approval stamp dated July 11, 1998 and revision date of February 8, 1999, subject to a one year review from date of building permit. Mr. Cremers: Second the motion. Southold Town Planning Board 12 Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. those in favor? May 3, 1999 Any questions on the motion? All Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES AND SET OFF APPLICATIONS Sketch Extensions: Mr. Orlowski: Paradise Isles - This proposed minor subdivision is for 4 lots on 30.619 acres located on the north side of Island View Lane; 254.18 feet west of Bayshore Road, and on the south side of August Lane in Southold. SCTM# 1000-53-6-46.2 and 57-2-1.1. Mr. Ward: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following resolution. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board grant a retro-active six month extension of sketch approval from March 17, 1999 to September 17, 1999. Conditional sketch approval was granted on September 17, 1997. Mr. Cremers: Second the motion. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr, Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. MAJOR AND MINOR SUBDIVISIONS, LOT LINE CHANGES, SET OFF APPLICATIONS ' STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT Determinations: Mr. Orlowski: John I(oroleski - This proposal is to set off a 1.988 acre parcel from an existing 69.964 acre parcel. The Town of Southold has purchased Southold Town Planning Board 15 May 5, '1999 the development rights on 63,976 acres of the 69.964 acre parcel. The property is located on the north side of Sound Ave. in Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-112-1-9.1 and 120-2-4 and 120-6-1, Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer the following. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, assumes lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants a Negative Declaration. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. OrlowSki: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. Mr. Orlowski: Robert Kowalsld - This proposed minor subdivision is for 2 lots on 83,966 square feet, lOcated on Main Rd. in Arshamomaque. SCTM# 1000-45-5-I. Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I'll offer this. BE IT RESOLVED that the Southold Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental Quality Review Act, assumes lead agency, and as lead agency makes a determination of non-significance, and grants a Negative Declaration. Mr. Cremers: Second the motion. Mr, Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. Any questions on the motion? All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr: Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. Southold Town Planning Board 14 May :5, 1999 APPROVAL OF PLANNING BOARD MINUTES Mr. Orlowski: Board to approve the April 5, 1999 minutes. Mr. Latham: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Oriowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. March I, 1999 minutes. Mr. Cremers: So moved. Mr. Ward: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. There's nothing left on my agenda and we're going to go into a work session. Would anybody like to put anything on the... Thor Hanson: I'm Thor Hanson. I'm President of Southold Citizens for safe roads, and I'm here because we're sort of at an anniversary in a sense of the continuing saga of Cross Sound Ferry and their desire to have a large parking lot at Orient Point. To go back a bit before the anniversary, in September of 1997, as I think you recall, Cross Sound filed a motion saying that the Town had been unconstitutional...the Planning Board had been acting unconstitutional in demanding that they present a new site plan and then giving them a scop~ng session that they said went ~}eyond the authority of the Town. And in January of 98, they asked for a default judgement from the judge, from the Town, because the Town hadn't responded to their previous motion on the constitutionality question. And they said because they hadn't answered it, the Town should be in the fault. Southold Town Planning Board 15 May 5, 1999 in May of 98, which is the anniversary year (change tape), the judge denied the default judgement that they had requested and he gave the Town two weeks to come in with their response on this constitutionality question. He also said that he was putting a stay on any other actions that had to do with Cross Sound until he had resolved that constitutional question. Now, as I say, it's been a year and as far as we know your lawyer hasn't done anything except request extension after extension after extension and they're usually for a couple of weeks, and sometimes they're for longer, but as far as I know nothing really has happened. And of course Cross Sound, on April I began operating for the fifth straight year the high speed ferry that they don't have a site plan for. I'd like to first add, am I correct in the things I'm saying. I think they are correct. But you may have had some action back and forth between the Town and Cross Sound that I don't know about. But if this is correct, I'd like to ask again as I have with you before, why you and your lawyer are not doing anything about this while they continue to operate. You had told me one time Benny that the judge, as soon as he got over his heart attack and come back, he's going to make a decision. As far as I know, he hasn't. I've got a couple of other things but would you like to respond to that to what I've come to this far? Mr. Orlowski: Well, unfortunately, in litigation the longer you can drag things out I guess the longer you can keep operating and basically that's what's happening. It's been as aggravating to us as it has been to you. Our attorney has put together an answer to this decision on part of the litigation that deals with the code and whether it's legal or not. Mr. Hanson: The constitutional part? Mr. Oriowski: The constitutional part. It's something basically we'd just like to stay away from and proceed. The applicant laas agreed to move on and basically has said that they will proceed with the amended SEQRA and drop the trust parcel and do the SEQRA based on the parcel in total. The judge says OK, that's alright, go anead and do it, but we haven't seen it yet. I don't know how to make the applicant move any faster than that. This part about fighting to see whether the constitutionality of the code is legal or not is something that, like I said, we'd like to stay away from, we'd like to get into that action and win it. But if we lose it, that ends the whole game. Mr. Hanson: Well, it probably should be, I would think, on the table anyway. Southold Town Planning Board 16 May$,1999 Mr. Orlowski: It is on the table and it's going to have to be answered. applicant has agreed no matter what the answer is, he is still going to proceed with the site plan. So...I haven't seen it. The Mr. Hanson: Proceed the SEQRA? Mr. Orlowski: The SEQRA, and do the complete site plan on the site. Mr. Hanson: Of course it's been 18 months since you returned that site plan to him and said it was incomplete. As far as I know he has not done anything. You say he said, now has he done this informally? How has he said that? Mr. Orlowski: All I get it out of proceedings that the judge holds with the attorney's and you might even know more than we know since I know your previous sum of this action. Mr. Hanson: Well, on the constitutional question, we really aren't. We don't get copies of anything that your lawyer files or that Essek's files. Mr. Orlowski: But on the rest of it, I believe you are, right? Mr. Hanson: I haven't seen any of that that you're talking about. Mr. Orlowski: These are just judges discussions in chambers and we're trying to push it. There's no way that an injunction is going to be filed to stop that ferry because they both said that right up front. And we just have to proceed and get a site plan which they say they're going to give us and should be coming forthwith, whatever that means. We wish it was done a whole lot sooner. Mr. Hanson: You've been saying that for three years. Mr. Orlowski: I know. Mr. Hanson: I don't understand. I would think that it would worry you and the ToWn Board in the sense that the ferry constantly refers in all of their arguments to non-conforming, pre-existing use which we all know they're doing, they've been doing on the '84 site plan, and they're doing that - they're not supposed to be exiting on Rt 25, they're not supposed to be using the snack bar lot for parking for more than two hours. And yet they always call it pre-existing, non-conforming because about five straight Town governments have never taken them to task. Southold Town Planning Board 17 May $, 'i999 Now, what worries me is you're going to get the same thing on this high speed if we don't watch it, because they're going to start to say that's pre- existing and non-conforming because nobody's done anything. That's what really is troubling. Doesn't that trouble you? Mr. Orlowski: Very much. It bothers all of us. I am in contact with the attorney all the time and we discuss it. The other attorneys and the applicant seem to be yessing us to death, yessing the judge to death, and it puts us in a position that...it's in the judge's hands. If the judge would say, if you don't do this by next week we're going to cease and desist until you do do it, that would be real nice. Mr. Hanson: The last formal thing I saw he said he was putting a stay on all of that until he solved or decided the constitutional question and he's been awaiting your answer so he could. And that's one of the reasons I think that he's not doing anything. Because he's waiting I guess for an answer. Mr. Orlowski: No, I think he's still waiting for the applicant to do what they're supposed to do and I think because the applicant is telling him that, he's not taking any other action. Mr. Hanson: You mean by submitting a site plan? Mr. Orlowski: Yes, and finishing SEQRA. Mr. Hanson: How long are we going to do this? Mr. Orlowski: I don't know how long. I guess it could go on forever. It's aggravating to us, I mean we get the run around all the time and we get promises all the time. The judge sits there and says you've got to do it. I wish he would say, do it when, now or two years from now? We can fight the constitutionality part forever and if we lose it then that's it, the game is over, then where do we go from there? Mr. Hanson: Well, I'm not sure it's over. You can always... Mr. Orlowski: We could, yeah, but we're in it now. Let's see if we can get a complete site plan right now. Which we're supposed to. Mr. Hanson: And if you keep waiting on that you may never get one because he has said the last official thing was, until he decided that, he wasn't going to do anything else, as I recall. He's put a stay on everything else, am I right? Southold Town Planning Board 18 May S, 1999 Mr. Orlowski: Yes, he has. But they've come in and said we will proceed with the site plan and do the SEQRA. They conveyed that to the judge in his chambers. Mr. Hanson: Informally. Mr. Orlowski: Informally. I'm not even allowed in there. And like I said, you may know more than I know because you have access to some of that information. Not on the part of the constitutionality but I think on all the rest you do, right? Mr. Hanson: I don't know about this informal thing where the judge has said they're going to do. I don't know about that. Mr. Orlowski: I believe they've convinced the judge that yes we're going to do it and we'll have it done right away and it's been already six months and we still don't see anything. Mr. Hanson: It's been 18 months since you (inaudible). 18 months. Mr. Orlowski: Yeah, well they said they'd have it complete by the end of last year and we haven't seen it. And I think we've given them a long enough time. My last discussion with our attorney was to get a hold of the judge and to see if the judge would make the decision that you either do it or we stop the operation until you do do it, but we can't formally file our complaint because we may be in a lot of trouble doing that. He's already said don't pull my chain either. Mr. Hanson: Well, one thing you could consider would to be to recommend to the Town Board -now this is not something in your jurisdiction to do this - but you could recommend to the Town Board to go out and start really finding alt the cars that are illegally within the '84 site plan. They're not complying with that at all. They're not driving out the way they're supposed to. The ferry lets them drive out on Rt. 25. They're letting them park for hours and days when they should only be two hours. Has anybody really suggested going out and harass them. Start towing those cars away, and that will get their attention. And then maybe they would then do something about this. There's a thought. Mr. Orlowski: You could probably just go to the Town Board and request a change of zone and zone ferries right out of the town. Mr. Hanson: Well, I'm not saying that. I'm just saying go to them and say why Southold Town Planning Board 19 May $, ']999 don't you enforce the site plan in force? You haven't done anything yet to get the new site plan really. So let's at least enforce the old one. That would be an interesting way to get their attention. Mr. Orlowski: We could bring that conversation up to the judge when we get to talk to him the next time. He was away for the whole month of April after he was sick and then he took a months vacation, so it hasn't been easy. Mr. Hanson: He's been back from sick for a long time. It's been about a year Ithink. Mr. Orlowski: No, he was out again. And then he came back for about two months and now he's away for a month. But he's back again now. My last conversation with our attorney is that he's going to request that they have to come up with a date that they submit everything. I understand through conversations that it's supposed to be any day now but I've heard that, from like you said, the last year so I don't know what to tell you. Mr. Hanson: Well, I often have heard, not from you so much as from the Town Board, that the attorney doesn't want us to do that, well the attorney works for you people and if you don't like it tell him to do it. I have to recall that about four years ago I think it was by now, maybe three and a half, we did offer that if you would work with our group, we could make our attorney available pro bono to the Town. And I think it was you Benny who said, well, we've got our own way of doing things around here. And you're own way of doing it up to now is to produce nothing, as far as I can see. We're sitting around waiting for something to happen. Mr. Orlowski: Unfortunately Thor, you know that we can't do something like that. I'm surprised that we haven't heard from your attorney either lately. Is he still on board? Mr. Hanson: Oh yeah, very much so. Mr. Orlowski: Is he? Mr. Hanson: Well you know the judge appealed to get us out of the case and it went up to appellate court and we won on it. He kept us in it very much, so yes, our attorney did that. Mr. Orlowski: And you still have another appeal on that too, don't you? Mr. Hanson: Well, we're appealing back at the same time he denied the Southold Town Planning Board 20 May 5, 1999 default judgement, as you recall the Town didn't file anything and because they hadn't filed anything on that default judgement, we did file. And at the time the judge turned down the default judgement request and he said on that particular issue we did not have standing, but we had standing in everything else. And so, we have appealed that. That is up there, our appeal of that finding of his. That is at appellate court. Mr. Orlowski: That appeal has been in a long time too, right? Mr. Hanson: Yeah, at the appellate court. We're just waiting for them to make a decision. But that's on whether we're a part of the constitutional question is what you're talking about. Mr. Orlowski: Yes. Mr. Hanson: But we're very much still a part of the rest of it. Mr. Orlowski: Well, you understand why we don't to attack this constitutional question? Mr. Hanson: Well, I don't know that I do. It's got to be answered sometime. We might as well get into it and do it, it seems to me. I don't really understand why not doing anything. I don't understand that. Mr. Orlowski: What happens if we lost? Mr. Hanson: He said he's going to decide it one way or the other. It would help I think if he had your input. I don't know how he's going to decide it either. Mr. Orlowski: The applicant has agreed no matter what that decision is going to be to do a site plan and to finish the SEQRA process. Mr. Hanson: Yeah, but they've never done it. Mr. Orlowski: That's why thejudge, I believe, is being so lenient with them at this point in time and it's driving us crazy just like it's driving you and everybody else crazy that it goes on and on and on and on and everybody blames this attorney and that attorney and the applicant and the consultants and the ones putting together the DEIS and everything else and everybody has a place to put their blame, but believe me I talk to our attorney at least once or twice a week about this situation and it's getting aggravating and my last conversation was out of frustration, I said go in and tell him to stop Southold Town Planning Board 21 May 3, '1999 until he produces the document he promised us a year ago. I think it's fair. And I don't know what's going to happen with that. Mr. Hanson: OK, thank you. Mr. Orlowski: Any other comments or questions for the Board on the record? I'll entertain a motion to adjourn. Mr. Edwards: So moved. Mr. Cremers: Second. Mr. Orlowski: Motion made and seconded. All those in favor? Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Ward, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers. Mr. Orlowski: Opposed? Motion carried. There being no fUrther business to come before the Board, the meeting adjourned at 8:15 p.m. Respectfully submitted, Martha A. Jones Secretary