HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/04/1971Southold Town Planmng Board
SOUTHOLD, L. I., N. Y. 11~?1
PLANNING BOARD
MEMBERS
John Wickham, Chairman
Henry Molsa
Alfred Grebe
Henry Raynor
Frank Coyle
M ~ N U T E S
SOUTHOLD TOWN PLANNING BOARD
"Information Meeting on Master Plan"
March 4, 1971
A public information meeting on the proposed "Master Plan"
for Southold Town was held by the Southold Town Planning Board
at 7:30 P.M., Thursday, March 4, 1971, at the'Southotd High
School.
There were present: Messrs: John Wickham, Chairman; Henry
Moisa, Vice-Chairman; Henry'Raynor; Frank Coyle.
Absent: Mr. Alfred Grebe, due to unfavorable weather conditions.
Also present: Mr. Arthur Kunz, Deputy Director of the Suffolk
County Planning Commission; Howard Terry, Building InspeCtor..
THE CHAIRMAN: Ladies and gentlemen, I want to welcome
everyone present this evening. I am surprised, hand glad, to
see such a large number of ladies in the audience, i would
Information Meetln~n Master Plan -2- March 4, 1971
like to introduce Mr. Arthur Kunz, Deputy Director of the Suffolk
County Planning Commission, Assistant to Lee Koppelman. I would
also like to introduce the members of the Planning Board: I am
John Wickham, Chairman, from~Cutchogue; Henry Moisa, representa-
tive from Orient~ Henry Raynor, representative from Mattituck;
and Frank Coyle, representative from Greenport; and our secre~
tary, Mrs. Betty Neville.
I hope that everyone has the brief notes on the plan for
development which were handed out at the door. I am going to
say a few words of explaination before officially opening the
meeting for .discussion. We, on the Planning Board, are not
prophets, yet we are sitting here before you having prepared
a development plan and map, aiming at the year 1980. Obvious-
ly, many, many things can happen between now and the year 1980.
Any one of a number of things could happen, a depression being
one of them. If we should have a depression, then this develop-
ment plan and map will be shunned aside. In setting DP this
development plan, we have projected what we think might happen
to the Town of Southold within the next twenty years. Actually
it has been fifteen years since we first started work on the
plan. But a great deal can still happen within the next ten
years. If we do have some sort of major economic change, then
just forget anything that we say here tonight. There is one
other thing that I would like to say, this will be the fifth
information meeting that we have held. The State Law is no~
very explicit, but they say that you should hold one public
information meeting. Our first meeting was held at Southold,
on August 29, 1969; the second at Mattituck on September 3,
1969; the third on Fishers Island on September 3, 1969; the
fourth at Southold on October 2, 1970; and this is the fifth
one. So the p~ople of the Town of Southold have had five
time the opportunity to discuss things with their Planning
Board than the other Towns have had. On our part, the real
reason for holding this information meeting is because we
have a map to display. This is not an official zoning map,
it is a guide line for future planning. The Planning Board
will not adopt this map; it will be used by the Town Board
as a guide line for future zoning. This map which we have
prepared is not perfect; but it is a much more detailed map
than most other towns have presented. Our planning consult-
ants have told us never to show lot lines on a p~anning map.
In most planning consultations you would only see a map with
divisions of the general areas, such as the first draft which
we prepared. But since you, the people of the Town of Southold,
have been so kind, understanding, and patient with us, we have
prepared a much more detailed, explicit map. This Master Plan
Map which we have prepared can be duplicated at quantity. The
map which we are presenting here tonight, when adopted, will
not be an open and closed case, it will be used by the Town
as a guide line. It is only the Planning Board's idea of how
Information Meetin~on Master Plan -3-~J
March 4, 1971
things might look; what we think might happen. Before I open
this meeting, I want to give you some statu~ quo.
The Chairman briefly reviewed the present and future possi-
bilities of development of the Town of Southold in regard to it's
available water supply.
THE CHAIRMAN: The time has now come to open the meeting
for discussion, but because we have had four other meetings, we
think that most of the discussion tonight should center on the
proposed map. The map is new to you, it too will be placed on
file in all Town Offices and public libraries, the same as the
text was.
JAMES OLSEN, Mattituck: My office in Mattituck is zoned
"B" Business, but it is not shown on this Master Plan Map as
such. According to this new map my office is now "A" Resi-
dential and Agricultural. Why have you taken the business
zone away?
THE CHAIRMAN: In other words your question is "Is this
new Master Plan Map an attempt to put existing business out?"
The answer is no. This is an attempt to forecast what busi-
ness will be there 10 years from now. Your property is zoned
"B" Business, and as long as you continue to use it for busi-
ness, it shall remain as such.
QUESTION: What is the difference between "B" & "B-i"
and "M" & "M-l" ?
THE CHAIRMAN: I could answer that but I don't know as if
I should. Thes~ are zoning classifications, we are concerned
with the Development Plan Map tonight.
QUESTION: But they are on the map, what is the difference
between them?
THE CHAIRMAN: These are land use classifications, they
are explained in the Zoning Ordinance. This does not come with-
in the scope of planning at this time. However, I will define
them briefly.
(The Chairman briefly explained the difference between "B"
& "B-i" and "M" & "M-i". )
MR. CUNNINGHAM: I am a little apprehensive about the Master-
Plan Map. Different areas have been down-zoned from "B" Business
to "C" Light Industrial. In New Suffolk we have always b~R al-
lowed to have commerce (buying and selling, boatyards, marinas,
and repairs) but no fac~6ries. If this goes through, does it
Information Meetin~-~on Master Plan -4~ .... March 4, 1971
mean that we could have factories?
THE CHAIRMAN: The light industrial "C" district is a project-
ed use, to date it has not been defined. We feel, however, that it
should cover boatyards and marinas.
QUESTION: (resident of New Suffolk) But will allow factories?
THE CHAIRMAN: At present, I don't know~ it is up to the Town
Board to govern this with the enactment of an ordinance. I can only
say that it is the understanding of the Planning Board that it should
not include factories. We can recommend this to the Town Board, but
they will say what can be allowed. There must be a public hearing,
everyone will have a chance to be heard. This is all I can say, it
is their province, not ours. We are advising them that it would be
well to ~hclude boatyards and marinas.
MR. CUNNINGHAM: Industry and commerce are two different
things. Why is it called industry if it is commerce? I don"t
understand why you call it that.
JOSEPH E. DOUBRAVA (Ole Jule Lane and New Suffolk Avenue,
Mattituck) This map proposes to change a particular area on the
east side of Ole Jule Lane from "A" Residential and Agricultural
to "M" Multiple Residence. We can't understand why they chose
this area, we have a drinking water problem here now. How did
they arrive at this choice? I would like to go on record as
opposing this proposed change of zone. I have a petition to
submit in opposition to it, si~ed by all the residents in
this area.
THE CHAIRMAN: It is spelled out in the study and in the
analysis of Raymond and May's study. They say that we should
try to center growth around the existing centers of population.
It is just impossible to satisfy everyone. As long as the
Planning Board sets aside areas for "M"~ "B", or "C", we can
hope that these districts will fall somewhere within reason
of the location that we have planned for. But if we don't
show any proposal for them on the planning map, then it will
be left up to the petitioners to come before the Town BoaTd
and request them where ever they may wish, and the Town Board
will have little to say about it. We have not had any appli-
cations for "M" zoning come before us yet, but we think there
may be one soon, so we are trying to plan for it. I know that
the water situation is critical down there and also on Mattituck
Creek. If there should be an "M" zone there, they will have to
install a complete water system.
QUESTION: Why is heavy industry considered desirable?
Information Meeting on Master Plan -~. March 4, 1971
THE CHAIRMAN: I don't know what you mean by desirable, but
there are some types of heavy industry which are essential, for
instance oil tanks. We don't like them, but we have to have
them, and they must be located somewhere near the need. Also
the Agway complex at Southo~d is heavy industry, the entire
operation in the rear is heavy industry and it is essential to
the farmers.
QUESTION: What restrictions will be placed on the heavy
industrial district?
THE CHAIRMAN: The Board of Appeals restricts it. Any uses
in this particular district will be by special exception only.
~UESTION: Will there be oil tanks on the areas marked for
heavy industry on the map? You and the other members of the
Planning Board like to protect the Town, but what about the
future~members of the Planning Board? Will they do the same?
Heavy industry further west is not what you call heavy industry
here.
THE CHAIRMAN: The people of the Town of Southold will still
have a check on it. The uses in this district will be permitted
only by special e~egp~Qn by the Board of Appeals, and of course
change of zone applications are under the 3urisdiction Qf the
Town Board.
QUESTION: How were industries such as Northville, Levon,
etc. allowed in the Town of Riverhead?
THE CHAIRMAN: The Riverhead Town Board set aside'10,000
acres of industrial zoned l&hd. They said that they did this
because it is so hard to down zone. The Town of Southold has
a total of only 600~ acres of industrial land, of which the
Town Dump is the largest part.
QUESTION: Is it your view that heavy industry zones ~ould
be for the purpose of supporting the present industry? Or is
it possible that heavy industry, such as we know it up west,
could come in?
THE CHAIRMAN: We are going a little out of field for the
purpose of this meeting. From a legal point, if the Town does
not provide an industrial area, an ~p~licant must be granted
his petition, so by planning at least we have some say as to
the location and also we have an ace in the hole; hamely, it
must have the O.K. of the Board of Appeals by special exception,
it is under their control.
RICPLARD CRON, ATTORNEY: Mr. Wickham, members of the Planning
Boar~, ladies and gentlemen:
I am here tonight as a representative of the Southold Town
Southold Town Planning Board
March 4, 1971
Businessmans' Association. To begin with, I want to dispell
some of the misbeliefs about the association. I have heard
it said that the only members of the association are retailers
and storeowners. This is not true. A great number of our
members are farmers from the local area. We are not opposed
to all planning or any specific plan. We are here tonight to
indicate our views. I have a lot of things to ask, but I will
try to limit myself. I thought it rather interesting when you
discussed the water report. There is quite a difference between
$300,000. and $6,500. I hope that we did not get a watered-down
report?
THE CHAIRMAN: No, we did not. We received an excellent
report from Malcolm Pi~nie Engineers.
RICHARD CRON, ATTORNEY: At this time, the Southold Business-
mans' Association will go on record as being opposed to the adop-
tionoof this proposed Master Plan, ~imply because we don't know
enough about it. All we have seen to date is a proposed land use
map. We have not seen any of the ordinances which will govern
the plan. I don't think you can just look at the map. You have
to have the ordinances to go with the map. I am not at all cer-
tain as to whether as to whether this plan is adequate. This
plan, which envisions the development of the Town up t9 the yeast
1980, may not be sufficient. The Town may not be full~ developed
by 1980. If the full potential of development takes until the
year 2000 we should take the plan to there, too. Upon examining
the land use plan, we don't believe that it is feasible, practical,
or economically sound. We don't believe that you can carry out
this plan economically. When we see the Nassau County Plan and
this plan, Where is all the money going to come from fOr the pro-
posed plan which is projected? Many farmer~ are not interested
in such a proposal. As far as they can see, they have suffered
a depreciation in land values~ They can no longer sell their
land for the price that they could have be.fore you said one acre
zoning. UnleSs you have economically studied as to where the
money will come from, we don't think this plan is feasible. The
money to preserve these farmlands is going to have to come from
the home owner. He is so highly taxed now~ I don't see how he
will pay for it. we must have a full plan to examine~ a map and
an ordinance.
THE CHAIRMAN: I would like to s~ate again that it is not the
responsibilityof the Planning Board to implement the development
plan. The implementation with ordinances is strictly in the field
of the Town Board. If you had attended the Information Meeting on
October 2, 1970, you would know that we made a study of Agriculture
in Southold Town. Included in this study was a survey in which all
Information Meeting on Master Plan
March 4., 1971
of the farmers were asked if they would be interested~iin continuing
farming when and if some sort of assistance program is developed
by the Town. Two-thirds said that they would be interested in con-
tinuing farming if such a program~as developed. The remaining one-
third said that they would continue farming regardless of an assist-
ance program. I think the negative easement con~racts being offered
by the Town are part of the answer. (The Chairman explained the nega-
tive easement contracts.) In Easthampton the Town itself is buying
up the farm land and leasing it back to the farmer. This is fine
for them. They have only 1600 acres of farm land, but we don't think
it would work here in the Town of Southold.
At this time, I would like to introduce Mr. Arthur Kurtz from
the Suffolk County Planning Commission.
ARTHUR KUNZ, Suffolk County Planning Commission:
The point about preserving agriculture land is well ~aken by
the County. We are attempting to retain as much of this land as
possible. We have no intention of taking anyones land aw~ay from
them. True, we are trying to lower the population density, but
we arennot trying to force anyone out of the area. We don't want
the eastern end of the island to develop the way the western end
has. When you allow a great influx of people to come into an amea,
this means that you must have an expansion of the public services
as well, such as schools, for example, The cost of residential
growth falls on the homeowner. We don't want this to happen on
eastern Long Island. If it does, it wil~ drive a lot of the natives
out of the area. We want to maintain this area in its' present
rural state. It is up to the Town to preserve the agriculture land.
The County thinks that it would be a lot cheaper if the Town buys
the farm lands up. Cluster zoning is a good idea, too. But you
must plan something now. We think the eastern end of the island
should be retained in its' present character as long as possible.
If you think that industry can balance out the tax base, you are
wrong. Industrial corporations are not interested in expanding
to this area. It is unrealistic to think that industry will
balance out the high costs. It just can't happen
DONALD BRANT, Mattituck: Does the County Plan envision any
industry?
MR. KUNZ: Very little. The County agrees w~th the Town's
thinking on industry. Most of the industry is used for local
services which are necessary. Undesirable perhaps, but necessary.
Large scale industry is not going to come out here.
JAMES OLSEN: Right now, they are asking $5,000 an acre for
industrial property in Riverhead Town, and the buyers are not
willing to pay that'much for it. I don't think there is too
much of a demand for industrial property out here.
" Information Meet~jon Master Plan -.~. March 4, 1971
(James Olsen,cont.) If this Brecknock Hall project goes through,
the Greenport School District will be very. highly taxed. One
acre zoning is not good. What will we do with the young and old
people who cannot afford~a one acre lot?
MR. KUNZ: This is why we have made provisions for multiple
residence districts. The people who live in them are the young
and the old. We have them located very close to the villages.
ALBERT ZANOWSKI, farmer: We are not in accord with the Master
Plan as presented. We don't think that farming is going to stay
here any length of time. We would like it to, but it cannot. The
following are several of our problems: 1. Maine, Idaho, Washinton,
and the other potato producing states out-produce us. 2. The ban
on insecticides. Its' effect on production for the coming year
will be adverse. 3. The nematodeproblem. The farmers have had
to lay-up affected sections of their land for certain periods of
time. 4. Labor problems caused by County Health regulations and
civic groups. 5. The biggest problem is dollar shortage. It
costs us from $2.50 to $2.70 per 100 wt. to produce. We sell them
for $2.25 per 100 wt. Idaho, Main,e, and Washington can produce
them cheaper.
I am not in agreement with this survey of which you spoke.
Most of the farmers that I know who joined this association don't
want to stay in agriculture, it is too difficult. The young people
don't want to go into farming. They are either on the Police Force,
at the County Center, Brookhaven, Plum Island, or Grumma.ns. The
average age of the farmer is 57. How much longer can we farm? I
just can't envision the County buying up the land.
MR. KUNZ: We raised this subject just to bring out its'
importance. Yes, there is something we can all do. We want
to keep this environment as long as possible. I don't think
enough importance has been given to retaining this open area.
The people must realize that something has to be done and then
decide what you want to do. We want to help out in some way,
but you must decide what you want to do.
MR. ZANOWSKI: Thank you for the suggestions of help, but
they are not doing us any good. The cost of living is rising
all the time. Farmers don't have the power to demand more
money as other people do, but we would like some sort of pro-
vision or some way in which the land Would be attractive for
a wife to sell, in case something happens to the farmer. Some
way in which she could dispose of the property and still have
something left to live on. The farmers are not asking for tax
dollars, just a way in which to dispose of our land when we
can no longer farm. The farmers sho~d form a committee so
that something workable can come out of these meetings to
alleviate our problems.
Information Meeting on Master Plan -9-~
March 4, 1971
TH~'CHAIRMAN: This is the thinking that the Planning Board
has been trying to get across to the people. If you want it to
stay you are going to have to do something about it. The time
has passed when the farmers have any power or provisions to
change the economic structure. We think the people in the Town
of Southold want this land to stay in agriculture. We have some
suggestions, but it is up to you and the Town Board.
MR. ZANOWSKI: What suggestions do you have?
THE CHAIRMAN: We don't like the County's Plan or Easthampton's
Plan. We don't think it would work here. Do you know how fortunate
the farmers are here in the Town of Southotd? This is only the
second Town in the state which has agriculture and residential in
the same zone district. It does have some advantages. Three mem-
bers of this Planning Board are farmers. We know that agriculture
is in a real bind. The people are going to have to get together
and work it out.
PAUL STOUTENBURGH: I want to go on record as supporting your
plan.
"I. It seems to me that the Southold Town Plan Map is very
inadequate as far as wetlands go. In some places wetlands are
shown where there are none; in others none are shown where wet-
lands I know personally to be. None of this matters of course,
if this is not an official Southold Town Plan Map.
The problem as far as I see is if you are only concerned
with what the map shows as wetlands and if this be the case you
are omitting much of the important area of wetlands that make
this end of the island what it is today.
A later problem will occur when the Town tries to enforce
a Wetlands Act in an area showing no wetlands on the official
map where there really are wetlands. The legality of this
problem holds a multitude of complications which could be cor-
rected by a statement that the map does not include all wetlands
as only a topographical map could show. (I would be only too
happy to explain this problem personally to any member of the
Planning Board at their convenience.)
II. I believe the Open Space area you have provided for
the future citizens of this area is wholly inadequate. The
Open Space we now have is not truly open space unless there
is some guarantee that farm land will be preserved in per-
petuity. I would hope the entire area from Albertsons Lane
in Greenport, east to Moores Woods that encumbers the low
wet area be set aside as open space. The clay below makes
it useless for anything else but this purpose.
III. I question the land use of the area south of Moores
Woods zoned industrial in Greenport. A land survey would show
Information Meeting on Master Plan -~ March 4, 1971
clay underlying this entire area and this surely would not be
to the advantage of the tax payer because he would be required,
at a later date, support sewerage and water throughout this
entire area. at best would be suggested for this
area."
MR. STANKWIECZ: What is your opinion of enacting a Wetlands
Ordinance, Mr. Wickham?
THE CHAIRMAN: We are in the middle. Some of the people
want restrictions on wetlands and some of them don't want them~
You must understand that no matter how formal the Town is, you
cannot satisfy both ends. This is not an official map° At the
present time we have no proposal for a wetlands ordinance. When
and if there is such a proposal, it will have to be with a map
and an ordinance.
MR. STANKWIECZ: What do you do when you h~ve paid 45 years
worth of taxes on your wetlands and then somebody tells you that
you cannot use them? I could have sold a p~ce of my property
for $10,000. But then you say it is weklands and it is not suit-
able for building. You are giving my property away. What are
wetlands, will you explain it to me, just what are they?
THE CHAIRMAN: As of the present time, we don't have a
definition for ~et~nds. I think everyone here has a conflict
of interest. We earn our living from the ~dd. The negative
easement contracts are good. I want my wetlands included in
this program.
It is the Planning Board's business to keep tract of what
is going on. The other day in the New York Times there was an
interesting article. Attorney General Lefkowi~z is asking the
legislature to amend the present state laws so that they can
take ~ver all of the wetlands. If they respond, the state will
take everything over. The County would also like to tmke over
the wetlands. They would be very happy to pay for them. However,
in the state law there is a clamse which says that as long as the
local governm~n~ takes the first step in preserving the wetlands,
the CoUnty or the State cannot confiscate them. The Town must
have a program for wetlands. We must show them that we are
taking the initiative, so that they cannot.
MR. STANKWIECZ: Mr. Martocchia was very nice to come down
and look at my property, but still nobody can explain to me what
wetlands area If I have a potential piece of property and I can-
not sell it, I want your support.
WILLIAM POLLERT, PRES., SOUTHOLD PECONIC CIVIC ASSOC.:
"I speak on behalf of the Southold-Peconic Civic Association
Information Meet~ on Master Plan ---~ March 4, 19~1
with a membership of nearly 600, and I have also been so author-
ized unamiously by its Boar.d of Directors.
This Association has been vitally interested and has studied
in depth for the last few years the progress of the Master Plan
and its effect on the community, for all angles, growth, political,
economic and natural resources. Our organization has always been
in complete favor of an over-all plan for Southold Town. We also
recognize that a great deal of work and~study has been done by the
Planning Board and by the Consultants making the actual surveys
and recommendations.
We feel now that most of the serious objections h~e been re-
moved, such as the elimination of the airport and the restrictions
on building lot size - except as required by the Suffolk County
Board of Health, any further objection would merely be of a re-
straining nature. We therefore approve of the plan as now present-
ed and which is always subject to change if gross inequitities do
develop or any other unforseen conditions arise.
·here is also a further important consideration for approving
and implementing a Master Plan now. The Suffolk CoUnty Planning
Board has submitted a Countywide plan, which if approved, amd if
it precedes the adoption of our own plan, will limit any Southold
plan by taking prededence. On the other hand~ our plan if earlier
enacted will form the base for any County Plan of the future, It
is obviously to the Town's advantage to h~ve a plan developed by
its own planners."
QUESTION: Will the County Plan have no effect if we adopt
this plan first?
MR. KUNZ: The idea of the adoption of the County Plan has
no influence on the individual Town plans. It is really only a
guideline for us for decisions on road l~my-out~parks, etc. It
is not on a legal level. We hope that local communities will
adopt their own plans so that they can implement them. We feel
that ou~ basic objectives are meet by the Town of Southold. Our
plan will not supersede your plan. We are encouraging local Town
Governments to have a plan. The County Plan has no legal stand-
ing~ in superseding your plan.
QUESTION: Why doesn't the County pass their plan them?
MR. KUNZ: It has no legal standing what so ever. It will
just help us to plan. The only reason we look for adoption is
for a vote of confidence. No other county government has a~-
opted a comprehensive plan.
MR. JAME~ OLSEN: Are you not ~nly an advisory council?
MR. KUNZ: Yes, that is correct. We don't have the power to
make the final de~isions.
Information Meet,~g on Master Plan -12~ March 4, 1971
MR. OLSEN: I agree ~ith the Master Plan. I am only against
one acre zoning.
JEAN TIEDKE, LEAGUE OF WOMEN VOTERS:
When our predecessors lived on this once-beautiful long
island, there was room to expand open space in which to hunt
or fish, or simply to enjoy. It was a unique place in which to
live, surrounded by clear water.
But every time we travel westward - and it need by only a
few miles - we see what is happening to our island.., the urban
growth, the cracker-box housing, the unplanned spread of commerce
along highways and byways, the gridiron roads and heavy' traffic.
And now we know that the most important commodity of all, drink-
lng water, is becoming polluted.
In this east end town of Southold we still have time - but
not much. To prevent being overwhelmed by events which we have
not foreseen, we all make plans: insurance plans, pension plans,
savin~s plans. We as a Town need not be overwhelmed by too much
of something in one place, too little in another. As a Town we
too can make plans.
Our first consideration in thinking about our future must be
the limitations imposed by a finite water supply. This applies
equally to housing,, to commerce, to tourism, and to industry
and agriculture. The second sonsideration must be a sensible
approach to the distribution of people and jobs and the necessary
roads to accomodate them so that the results will be as fair as
possible to all parts of the community. This would include the
owner of a small lot, or m~ny acres, whether farmland8 wetland,
or woodland, the young, the elderly, the well-to-do and the less
affluent among us.
The League of Women Voters agrees with the Development Plan
that open space and economically valuable wetlands m~st be pres-
erved. Some should be acquired outright by the Town. Owners of
wetlands and woodlands can also be encouraged to save more open
space by the use of scenic easements in perpetuity0 for example,
which would provide needed tax relief for the owners.
There are still other ways of preserving open space and all
should be considered, since our primary economic value as a
tourist area lies in our wetlands and open space. We believe
that private land owners appreciate the natural beautie~6f the
Town, as do many of our residents, and are willing to consider
any method of preserving this atmosphere that does not necessitate
great economic sacrifice.
The League of Women Voters believes that the only possible
answer to this enormous jigsaw puzzle lies in planning. The
develppment plan proposed for our Town is not a static .document°
It must grow and change to meet changing needs and interests.
The League believes that the public must be alert, and must be
allowed and indeed encouraged to participate more fully in the
process of up-dating this important tool for directing the future
growth of Southold. We must all help to decide the growth that we
Information Meet~g on Master Plan -<~- March 4, 1971
want, and the reasons for that growth. And we must carefully
~onsider the zoning ordinances that will implement the Plan.
The League believes that the proposed Development Plan,
though not perfect, is a reasonable base from which to start
and again we urge the adoption of the Plan and the necessary
supporting ordinances by the Southold Town Board."
RICHARD CRON, A~TORNEY: I think some clarification is in
order. How do you design a Master Plan? I~ it not necessary to
have an official zoning map and ordinance to go with the adoption
of the Master Plan?
THE CHAIRMAN: No, that is not true. The Master Plan is only
a guideline for the Town. The Master Plan Map is only a planning
map, it is not an official zoning map. You do not have to have
an official zoning map and ordinance in order to adopt the Master
Plan and the Master Plan Map.
MR. CRON: Will there be a zoning map prepared from this
Master Plan Map?
THE CHAIRMAN: The Town Board may amend the zoning map. We
suggest that they do. However, the Town Board may not choose to
follow the development plan.
MR. CRON: I think we should be able to examine the map
and the ordinance together.
THE CHAIRMAN: I am very sorry that our ~own Attorney is not
here tonight~ This is simply a proposal. It cannot be implemented
unless the Town Board prepares a similar ordinance an~o~olds a
public hearing. This tonight is not a hearing. It is an information
meeting. There can be no changes in the official zoning map unless
there is a public hearing.
JOSEPH SULLIVAN, PRES. NORTH FORK ENVIRONMENTAL ASSOC:
"The North Fork Environmental Council reaffirms its support
of the basic concepts included in the Southold Town Development
Plan.
Furthermore, the NFEC urges the Town Board to officially
adopt and implement the development plan as soon as possible.
However, the NFEC has the following reservations concerning
the revised development plan map under discussion:
1. Industrial Land - Much of the land designated for
industrial development appears poorly located with respect
to ecological and residential patterns.
2. COmmercial Land - Too many commercial spots and ribbons
are located along Route 25 and especially Rou~e 27A.
3. Wetlands - The wetlands are inadequately deliniated.
Many areas ~esignated as wetlands on the map are, upon field
" Information Meeting on Master Plan -14
March 4, 1971
inspection, already destroyed or developed. Furthermore, many
wetland areas are omitted from the revised map.
The NFEC believes that a detailed, accurate, large scale
map of wetland areas is needed.
4. Roads- The proposed extension of the Long Island Express-
way to Mattituck and the proposed tributary Loads running parall-
el to the Sound in Mattituck and Orient should be eliminated from
the map.
The NFEC, again, emphasizes its' support of the development
plan. However, some discussion and modification of the above
conditions would be preferred before the plan is officially
adopted."
EDWARD LATHAM, Orient: I have been before this Planning
Board once before to discuss my wetlands. I-am very concerned
about the wetlands. It seems to make a difference whether you
own them or whether you look at them. It doesn't seem right
that so much of the wetlands in Orient should be preserved when
the wetlands in the rest of the Town have been built upon. It
makes a difference whether it is your wetlands or my wetlands.
MR. KUNZ: The County has been active in buying wetlands.
We purchased the areas which should not be filled in or built
upon. Many of the areas which have been filled in and built
upon have sunk. Ecologically, they are of importance to every-
one. The~ are there to protect other lands. We know that
they cannot be filled in. We are paying top dollar for these
wetlands, $10,000. to $20,000. an acre. So it doesn't mean
that you will lose money by preserving them. We know, of course,
that it should be a local objective to acquire themD
MR. JAMES Fo HICKEY: I would like to sound annote of
confidence at 'this time. I realize that the people have
reason to be s~spicious~ but Mr. Wickham has pointed our
that this is not the ultimate. We must place our confidence
in the Planning'Board, they are our servants. I am placing
full confidence in these gentlemen. The plan is not perfect~
but you can"t expect it to be. The sooner we get on with a
plan, for the Town, the better.
ViRgINiA MOORE:I want to ask about parks and open space.
The only parks shown on the map are mostly the ones that are
already in existence. As far as open space, there is very
little. I think we should have as many parks and as much
open space as we can get. The agriculture and residential
are beautiful, but soon all of the agriculture will turn
into residential. We must set aside all of the park and
open space area as we can get.
Information Meeting on Master Plan -15~
March 4, 1971
THE CHAIRMAN: You are .right. The Planning Board agrees
with you. But we must realize that the planners consider the
agriculture land as open space.
QUESTION: There. seems to be a great many farmers here
t~night to speak for their interests. Where are the men who
earn their living fishing, clamming, and oystering? They
should get together and speak for themselves, too.
THE CHAIRMAN: I think the reason for this is because the
farmers ~wn their land. The fishermen don't own the water and
they have always felt that the fish are free. However, they
too, should get together and represent themselves.
MR. ZANOWSKI: Right now, the price of potatoes has gone
down and the crop is similar. We are in the capital gains
business. But if you remove the possibility of selling the
land we would be in deeper trouble. We would have no out.
THE CHAIRMAN: If you wamt agriculture to stay it is up
to you', the people of the Town of Southold. If you want the
wetlands to stay, it is up to you, the people of the Town of
Southold.
WALTER LUCE: If the County adopts the Master Plan will it
supersede the plan which you have here tonight?
THE CHAIRMAN: No, that is not correct. Niether of them
are an official document. They are both only guide lines.
WALTER LUCE: Mr. Dennison told me that he would like to
see the County Plan adopted. If we have a good plan here, let"s
do something about it. Don't let the County do it.
THE CHAIRMAN: No, I really don't think that is the case.
~m more afraid of the State than the county.
JOHN CUTTY: The plan to be adopted is still a proposal.
If adopted, how will it affect someone applying for a sub-
division?
THE CHAIRMAN: Subdivisions are within the jurisdiction of
the Planning Board. However, if you a~k for a change of zone
which is on the Master Plan Map, you would be in a much stronger
position than asking for one that is not on the map.
EDWARD LATHAM: Z have been told repeatedly that the
ordinance which goes along with this will have no restrictions.
~' Information Meet%~g on Master Plan -1~~ March 4, 1971
THE CHAIRMAN; At the present time there is no ordinance
governing wetlands.
EDWARD LATHAM: The Conservation Council is trying to
write an ordinance which will affect us. The Master Plan
Map will not hurt us, the ordinance will. Everyone wants
to maintain the farmland and the open land. Right now, the
assessors are contemplating doubling our taxes.
THE CHAIRMAN: I am not at all sure that you~statement' is
correct. However, the reason for the use-assessment contracts
is to help the farmers out. Use-assessment Contracts can be
used for any type ofopen land. The Town Board has three (3)
contracts before them now. Under these contracts, an owner
of open land can apply to the Town Board or to the County and
agree to limit the us~ of their land. They say that they will
not develop it and in return the assessment will be limited.
It will have to be quoted on the tax books at the minimum rate.
Th~s is why I want my wetlands included in this program. However,
there being a conflict of interest with the Town, I am going to
apply to the County for a ~se-assessment contaact. This is one
way to get away from the assessors.
QUESTION: What steps are necessary to get a change of
zone that is on the map? Where are the omdinances to go
with the map? What will be allowed in the light industry
district?
THE CHAIRMAN: You will have to apply to the Town Board
for a change of zone. If the parcel is shown on the Master
Plan Map as the same classification of zone fom which you
are applying, it should be relatively easy to obtain the
change of zone. The zoning ordinance is in the Town Board's
jurisdiction. I can't ~11 you what the Town Board is going to
put into the fine print for light industry.
QUESTION: The Planning Board has set aside about ten acres
of land in Mattituck for "M" Multiple Residence. How many
people are going to live there?
THE CHAIRMAN: The denRity per living unit'will be governed
by the zoning ordinance.
QUESTION: What types of heavy industry will we have? The
way this map is set up there is a possibility for anything.
THE CHAIRMAN: There are no pr~visions for heavy industry.
Hea~y industry can only be by special exception of the Board
of Appeals.
Information Meet'~g on Master Plan
March 4~ 1971
MR. OLSEN: There is heavy industry across the street from
my office in Mattituck. I heard rumors that they are going to
put an asphalt plant in there.
THE CHAIRMAN: They cannot put an asphalt plant in there
unless they get a special exception from the Board of Appeals,
which is very doubtful.
BOB DOUGLAS~ Orient: I have been listening to a lot of
speeches here tonight. Some of which I agree with ~nd somm of
which I do not agree with. The unavailability of business
property in Orient is my objection. We have a unique situation
in Orient. There is no place for the expansion or re-location
of business in Orient, and it is impossible to get a change of
zone.
THE CHAIRMAN: Change of zone applications are the juris-
diction of the Town Board. In setting up this map we used
our best judgement after consultation with the planning con-
sultants. We put the "M" zones close to the centers of pop-
ulation. We set aside a business zone in Orient but the
owner won't sell it. This is the way it goes. The Planning
Boarddoesn't know all of the answers.
STANLEY WAIMEY, New Suffolk: On many occasions you have
stated that it is not mandatory for the Planning Board to hold
these information meetings. You have stated that you hold them
to inform the people. Why can't we have a referendum on the
Master Plan?
THE (~HAIRMAN: The Master Plan is not an official document.
It does not re~ire a referendum of the people.
JOHEPH SULLIVAN, ~RES., NORTH FORK ENVIRONMENTALASSOC.:
I think this has been a successful meeting tonight. We
have had a lot of interesting and informative discussions.
However, more people must turn out at these meetings if they
are to be informed of the activities of the local g~ernm~nt.
I would like to state again that the NFEC is ready to assist
the Planning Board in the mapping and research of the wetlands.
THE CHAIRMAN: The time has now come to close this meeting.
In making arrangements with the school for the use of the
auditorium, we agreed that we would be out of here by 10:00 P.M.
I want to thank everyone present for their attendance at
this meeting. I think we have all derived some benefit out of
it. I would like to say that I have tried to answer all of your
questions to the best of my ability with consideration of the
time limit we have had here ~onight.
Information Meet'~,~ on Master Plan -18<-~
March 4~ 1971
The meeting was adjourned at 10:00 P.M.
Respectfully submitted~
Southold Town Planning Board
ohn Wickham, Chairman