HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-07/16/2007
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KENNETH L. EDWARDS
MARTIN H. SIDOR
GEORGE D. SOLOMON
JOSEPH L. TOWNSEND
MAlUNG ADDRESS:
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, NY 11971
OFFICE LOCATION:
Town Hall Annex
54375 State Route 25
(cor. Main Rd. & Youngs Ave.)
Southold, NY
Telephone: 631 765-1938
Fax: 631 765-3136
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
JERILYN B. WOODHOUSE
Chair
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
July 16,2007
4:30 p.m.
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Present were: Jerilyn Woodhouse, Chairperson
Martin Sidor, Member
George Solomon, Member
Joseph Townsend, Member
Mark Terry, Principal Planner
Bruno Semon, Senior Site Plan Reviewer
Anthony Trezza, Senior Planner
Carol Kalin, Secretary
SITE PLANS - STATE ENVIRONMENTAL QUALITY REVIEW ACT
Lead Agency Designation:
The HeritaQe at CutchoQue - This proposed residential site plan application is for the
development of a Planned 55+ Active Adult Community consisting of 139 detached and
attached dwellings of approximately 2,000 sq. ft. each; an 8,840 sq. ft. clubhouse; a 1,160 sq.
ft. swimming pool; two 3,200 sq. ft. tennis courts; a 2,400 sq. ft. maintenance garage; a
gazebo; a gatehouse; 322 parking spaces, of which 278 are associated with the individual
dwelling units and 44 are associated with the clubhouse and recreational facility; 197,043 sq. ft.
of man made ponds to serve as natural drainage basins/irrigation systems; 1,162,022 square
feet (27.676 acres) of landscaping; and various other site improvements including road
pavement, patio and sidewalk improvements, on a vacant 46.17 -acre parcel in the Hamlet
Density (HD) Zoning District located on the n/w corner of Griffing Street and School House
Lane, approximately 1,079 feet n/o the Main Road, in Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-1 02-1-33.3
Chairperson Woodhouse: Good evening. This is on the Heritage at Cutchogue. We have a
resolution to adopt tonight, and then we will be able to move forward with the SEQRA process.
Is there anyone who would like to address the Board on this resolution? Mr. Cuddy?
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Charles Cuddv for the applicant: I just have received the booklet that I had hoped to receive a
number of days if not weeks ago. But I would point out to you in just perusing it in the last few
minutes, that right in the beginning there is an error, and I believe there may be errors
throughout. It says "impact on water" and it says "public water supplied to the Town by the
Suffolk County Water Authority." However, there has not been issued a letter of water
availability. In fact, there are two letters of water availability that had been issued by the SCWA
to us. I think you have one of them; we have the second one. I would be happy to give them to
you, but I am disturbed that right in the beginning of this there's an error. But more importantly,
I don't see here at all that you have your consultant that you hired, there is no reference to that
consultant. There was a consultant that was hired completed a determination regarding this
matter. There is no reference to it in here. Perhaps that's because it is contrary to what is
being asked of you today. But it is bothersome to me that it's least not referred to in here,
because I think in fairness to the applicant, that's a very different scenario than has been
painted by the Planning Dept. and quite frankly I don't know how you can not at least refer to it
because I think you have to reject it, which is what you are doing, but there is no methodology
here to tell me how that is being rejected. And I find that quite odd. I would hope that the
Board would take a really hard look at this. If it's been so important to do this, I don't
understand why it has taken seven months for the Planners and others who have been
involved to make this kind of determination. It is remarkable to me that we have started this in
December, and here we are in July and we are still working on it and I think there are errors in
it. I think it shouldn't be adopted. I can't stop you from doing what you want to do, but I would
hope you would really seriously look. I wrote you a letter; I think I outlined the mitigation that
we have completed so far. I think we have done the appropriate things, and I think it's an error
to adopt this for some of the reasons I have just given you.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wants to comment before we
discuss this? This is on the resolution.
Barbara McAdam: My neighbors and I are here today to underscore the ways in which the
proposed development of the Heritage of Cutchogue, the largest multi-unit housing
development in Southold Town's history, will impact us as residents and property owners of
Cutchogue. I'm just going to hit a few bullets if that's all right.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Could I just say, our agenda item is to determine whether or not we
are going to issue a positive or negative declaration on this project. It is not a public hearing to
comment on the project per se.
Bruno Semon: Would be a recommendation that it be submitted in writing to the Planning
Board.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Yes, and then we would have those comments. Are you going to
comment about the issue that's before us tonight, or in general about the project, perhaps I
misunderstood you.
Barbara McAdam: Both, actually.
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Chairperson Woodhouse: Would you want to tell your remarks just to this particular item
tonight, and then save the rest or send them to us in the mail?
Barbara McAdam: We understand that you are about to issue a positive declaration, and we
agree with that because of several major issues. Regarding health: we don't have public water
in our area, and when you put 139 units so close to an area that does not have public water,
that's the part we think is a health hazard. So, we would say that would be a major reason why
a positive declaration should be issued. In an over-55 community, which this would be, people
that age take a lot of prescription medication. There have been reports that prescription
medications, like Lipitor, don't break down fully and may contaminate groundwater. So, again,
when our well water is threatened, we feel that is a viable issue and a reason for a positive
declaration. Further hydrological studies need to be done. We understand that is what a
positive declaration means; further studies need to be done in that area. Traffic is another
major issue. They are proposing 322 parking spaces, so that number of vehicles could be
dumped right into the center of the Hamlet of Cutchogue continually. We already have an
emergency access route to Highland Road at Bridle Lane that's going to alter the lifestyle of the
community from Highland and Crown Land Lanes and also Bridle Lane and Bridle Court. More
noise, more traffic which we currently don't experience. So that's another reason to issue a
positive declaration. Construction traffic, construction might possibly last for years. That also
is going to impact the hamlet center as well as our neighborhood, more exhaust, more vehicles
on the road, noise: those are quality of life issues that are taken into account in a SEQRA
review. So yes, there should be a positive declaration. We've got a parochial school right in the
center of town; school buses are coming in and out; kids are crossing the main road several
times a day to an accessory building with increased traffic. That could be catastrophic. Safety
is jeopardized. So, again, positive declaration is the right route to take. Other safety issues:
the Cutchogue Fire House in its current location on New Suffolk Avenue: in the midst of traffic
gridlock that we envision with a project of this size, how will emergencies be dealt with in a
timely fashion? I know if my house were on fire I would like to think they could get to me
quickly and a typical Saturday afternoon in the middle of July with 322 additional cars on the
road, that's a question. So, again, positive declaration is the right point today. I think one of
the mitigating issues in the traffic study that was done was to add a traffic light at Depot Lane.
As I see it, that is only going to exacerbate the problem; we have a traffic light at New Suffolk, I
think there's one proposed also at Griffing Avenue. Traffic lights slow down traffic even more,
so more gridlock just worsening the problem. An independent traffic study perhaps needs to be
done by the Town; so again, further studies which positive declaration would indicate. Then we
also have economic factors: developments like this it's certainly going to impact the property
values for us; we are very concerned about that. Our taxes, I understand that over-55
communities their taxes will be roughly 1/3 of what currently developments goes for. The
theory being that they will not be contributing students to the school district. We take issue with
that. I myself am a senior over 55; I don't have children going to the school, so maybe I'm
entitled to a tax break, and maybe my neighbors as well. School budgets, another economic
factor with 55 and older people, they tend to vote "no" on school budgets. So here they'd be
getting a tax break and possibly voting down our annual school budgets. Our towns are only as
good as our schools and both might be jeopardized by a project like this. And finally, rural
character: a project of this scope is so much the antithesis to quaintness, the quaintness of the
North Fork and the Cutchogue that we all so love. It doesn't fit, it just doesn't belong. Quiet,
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July 16, 2007
enclosed neighborhoods now subjected to noise, emergency traffic, increased traffic in general:
quality of life issues, not rural character as we know it. The Hamlet Center basically will
become a hazardous place for drivers and pedestrians alike, especially in the vicinity of the
Post Office on Griffing, where this development is proposed to be built. It's just really not a
good idea, and the positive declaration we feel is the right decision for the Planning Board to
make at this time. Just one recommendation I'd like to make: Southold Town needs to
develop a unified Master Plan to balance future development with land preservation, tourism
and quality of life for our current Southold Town residents. So again, thank you for your hard
work and we look forward to this decision and hopefully increased studies that will hopefully
halt this project. Thank you.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Is there anyone else who would like to comment?
Frank Wills: I live in Mattituck. I brought the announcement and I'm puzzled. Either my
mathematics has gone to sleep or something is wrong in the numbers. It recently said there
was 41.7 acres of which, and I shall read the rest of it: "1,162,022 sJ. (27.67 acres) of
landscaping and various other site improvements, including road pavements, patio and
sidewalk improvements on a vacant 46.17-acre parcel." If you take that development from a
41.6, it leaves 18.45 acres of developable land for buildings. Now 139 buildings on 41.7 acres
is only .33 acres.
Chairperson Woodhouse: It's 46.17 acres.
Frank Wills: It's .33 acres per dwelling. If you go down to 18, it gets to be a ridiculous number.
So, is there something wrong in the numbers or am I wrong?
Chairperson Woodhouse: I'm not following your numbers. Where are you reading from?
Frank Wills: I'm reading from about % of the way down; there's a full stop, and then it says
"1,162,022 sJ. (27.67 acres)" and it goes on to say "of landscaping and various other site
improvements, including road pavements, patio and sidewalk improvements on a vacant 46.17-
acre parcel." So, if you take away 18.45 acres, I'm sorry, if you take away 27.68 acres from
46.17, you end up with 18.45 developable acres for 139 units, which I don't think is allowable.
Chairperson Woodhouse: You don't deduct them from looking at the total acreage. That is
including the buffers, the landscaping and everything else; it's part of the parcel. So we would
not be deducting it in terms of your calculations.
Frank Wills: OK. Then how about .33 acres for each dwelling unit; is that permitted in Town?
I thought half acre zoning was the minimum.
Chairperson Woodhouse: In that density it is. Yes. Hamlet density.
Frank Wills: OK. So that's the answer. And what happens to sewage?
Mark Terry: Individual septic systems.
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July 16, 2007
Chairperson Woodhouse: The proposal has individual septic systems.
Frank Wills: And what will that do to the surrounding water? Water that people pump out of
private wells?
Georae Solomon: I believe that's what the mitigation that we are here to talk about is all about.
That's what is in the resolution this evening.
Frank Wills: Thank you.
Chairperson Woodhouse: I just want to say that the purpose of the positive declaration is not
to halt a project, but it is to identify areas that we think might have potentially significant
impacts. And so the applicant has an opportunity to mitigate against those and we get
provided with additional information. The amount of time it has taken is not because the staff
or anyone has not been working diligently on this project: to the contrary, this is being
scrutinized very carefully because it is a very important project to the Town of Cutchogue, and
we need to have all the information that we can now to make the best determinations about
how this project is going to proceed. And that's the purpose of a positive declaration: to
provide an opportunity for mitigation for areas that we think might be significantly impactful and
to get additional information, and to hear from the applicant other ways they could propose that
would mitigate against some of the issues that have been raised: traffic, sewage disposal, etc.
If anybody here on the Board has a question?
Joe Townsend: We were told that you received not one but two letters of water availability?
was wondering if you want to comment on that, Mark?
Mark T errv: Sure. When we receive a letter of water availability, it actually states that the
Suffolk County Water Authority has determined that water is available to this parcel. The
language is not in those two letters, rather it addresses the routing of the mains from Depot
down to Schoolhouse, and gives them a routing plan per se and a cost; it never actually
acknowledges whether or not water is available at this point.
Joe Townsend: So it's like a pre-? How would you characterize those letters if they're not; are
they pre-water availability letters, or what?
Mark Terrv: I think it's the SCWA working with the applicant trying to get water to the site but it
doesn't mean the volume is there to fill 139 units.
Joe Townsend: Plus.
Mark Terrv: They're very specific when there's water availability. They say "water is available
to this site."
Joe Townsend: And those letters do not.
Mark Terrv: Does not say that. It says "in order to get water to your site, this is the road you're
going to have to take."
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Joe Townsend: OK.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Anyone else? All right then we will proceed. There's another
question.
Malcolm Hendricks: How about the chlorination system? Can you put a sewerage system in
for these buildings? I lived in a place called Bayside Gables 40, 50, 60 years ago I guess.
They had a chlorination plant. It worked. Rather than dumping everything in the ground.
You're going to pump water out. I understand that the water company is coming down
Highland Road, and I don't believe everybody wanted it. Is it being run down there just for this
development? Can you answer that? Joe, you ought to know.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Mr. Terry?
Mark Terrv: Your comment should be re-proposed during the scoping session. As far as this
development is concerned, we have what we call transmission lines and distribution lines. The
transmission line is being run down Schoolhouse to serve this development.
Martin Sidor: I would like to say that Town Board is generally in more than the Planning Board.
They control the water map or the water main, not the Planning Board.
Georqe Solomon: I would also like to say that when this project first came to us, it was
proposed with a chromaglass system similar to what you are talking about, sir. The applicant
came back to us and said that they were no longer going to use the chromaglass system; that
they were going to go with separate and individual cesspools as to the Health Department's
approval. So that also adds to why we are here today. I would like to say something tonight.
I believe that this is more of a situation where we have property owners' rights and we have
community rights and we are looking to do a balance between the two, and protecting the
surrounding communities as we are reviewing this project as well as protecting the property
owners' rights of what they can develop by the zoning that's there.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Yes, sir? We will talk about one more comment and then we need
to close this meeting by 5:00 p.m.
Charles Zahra: I border this property to the east and south of them on Schoolhouse Road.
Are you in receipt of my letter?
Chairperson Woodhouse: We are.
Charles Zahra: OK. I was just curious: is there any consideration that can be made with
regard to that, or is it
Chairperson Woodhouse: Your letter is part of our file and we will look at that as we proceed,
and you are welcome to come when there is a public hearing and state your views to us.
Charles Zahra: At that time?
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July 16, 2007
Chairperson Woodhouse: Yes, at that time.
Charles Zahra: OK. Thank you very much.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Are there any further questions from the Board?
Martin Sidor: To the Town Attorney: the points that have been brought up here before
and during tonight: can they only be mitigated through a Pos Dec? Are there any other
means, or is that the only alternative that we have right now to help mitigate these points,
whether it's water, whether it's sewage, traffic or noise?
Kieran Corcoran: What you need to determine tonight is whether you think there are
potentially significant environmental effects. And that's what you're doing in your Pos
Dec, determine that they are, and that's your resolution for Pos Dec. And then you
examine those issues in the Scoping part. During that time, you determine how severe
those effects are; whether they are actual potential effects; how severe they are; and
whether you are permitting them. Some may be easily mitigable, some may not. Some
may be so severe that either project will have to be redesigned or altered, or not. Or
there may be some that the applicant can convince you are not a big deal. But tonight
you are identifying potential effects, deciding whether there are potential effects.
Martin Sidor: Well, we've identified the impact: the six points or whatever is on the... But
this can only be mitigated through a Pos Dec?
Kieran Corcoran: If you found, if you have already identified ways to mitigate them, the
project could have been redesigned in that fashion, let's say. But if you still think there
are potential impacts, Pos Dec is the way to go.
Martin Sidor: Does anyone in here care to know more about the SEQRA process, the
Positive Declaration or Negative Declaration, does everybody understand? Including on
this side of the table and in the audience? OK.
Charles Cuddv: I again would like to know how the Board reached some of the decisions
in here, because we really haven't had an opportunity to find that out. But I would point
out, and I am not contradicting the Town Attorney, but I think that there is another
method, methodology-wise, and that is to have done a Part III. That's never been asked
for; we asked a long time ago to consider that and it's never been done here. One of the
concerns that I have is that the applicant has entered to mitigate to bring to your attention
various things that they have done and would do. And that seems pretty much to have
been ignored. But again, there is another way of looking at this and I would hope that the
Board would reflect a little bit before it would pass the Positive Declaration.
Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. We have a resolution, and we will ask Mr.
Solomon to read the resolution and then we will have a vote on this resolution.
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July 16, 2007
Georae Solomon: WHEREAS, this proposed residential site plan application is for the
development of a Planned 55+ Active Adult Community consisting of 139 detached and
attached dwellings of approximately 2,000 sq. ft. each; an 8,840 sq. ft. clubhouse; a 1,160 sq. ft.
swimming pool; two 3,200 sq. ft. tennis courts; a 2,400 sq. ft. maintenance garage; a gazebo; a
gatehouse; 322 parking spaces, of which 278 are associated with the individual dwelling units
and 44 are associated with the clubhouse and recreational facility; 197,043 sq. ft. of man made
ponds to serve as natural drainage basins/irrigation systems; 1,162,022 square feet (27.676
acres) of landscaping; and various other site improvements including road pavement, patio and
sidewalk improvements, on a vacant 46.17-acre parcel in the Hamlet Density (HD) Zoning
District located on the northwest corner of Griffing Street and School House Lane,
approximately 1,079 feet n/o Main Road, in Cutchogue. SCTM#1000-102-1-33.3; and
WHEREAS, on December 11,2006, the Southold Town Planning Board, pursuant to Part 617,
Article 6 of the Environmental Conservation Law acting under the State Environmental Quality
Review Act, initiated the SEQR lead agency coordination process for this Type I Action;
therefore, be it
RESOLVED, that the South old Town Planning Board, acting under the State Environmental
Quality Review Act, establishes itself as lead agency and, as lead agency, has reviewed the
project and prepared a Determination of Significance for this Type I Action pursuant to Part
617.4 (b)(5)(ii);
Chairperson Woodhouse: We are going to do a roll call vote on each resolution. So,
alphabetically, Mr. Sidor?
Martin Sidor: Yes.
Georae Solomon: Yes.
Joseph Townsend: Yes.
Chairperson Woodhouse: and I vote Yes.
and be it further RESOLVED, that because the proposed action may have potentially significant
impacts on the environment, the Town of Southold Planning Board, as lead agency, hereby
adopts 617.20 Appendix A, Part 2 and 3 of the Long Environmental Assessment Form and
adopts a Positive Declaration for the proposed action;
Martin Sidor: No.
Georae Solomon: Yes.
Joseph Townsend: Yes.
Chairperson Woodhouse: and I vote Yes.
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July 16, 2007
and be it further RESOLVED, that pursuant to Article 617.8, scoping will be required for the
action;
Martin Sidor: No.
Georqe Solomon: Yes.
Joseph Townsend: Yes.
Chairperson Woodhouse: and I vote Yes.
and be it further RESOLVED, that pursuant to Article 617.13 of the 6NYCRR, Part 617 State
Environmental Quality Review Act, the applicant will be financially responsible for costs incurred
for the review and website posting of the Draft and Final Environmental Impact Statements by
the Town of Southold.
Martin Sidor: No.
Georqe Solomon: Yes.
Joseph Townsend: Yes.
Chairperson Woodhouse: and I vote Yes. Thank you. This concludes our Special Meeting
and we will now go into our work session. Is there a motion to close the meeting?
Joseph Townsend: So moved.
Georqe Solomon: Second.
Chairperson Woodhouse: All in favor?
Ayes.
Chairperson Woodhouse: The motion carries.
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting was adjourned at
4:30 p.m.
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RencttullY submitted,
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Linda Randolph, Transcribing Secretary
, . 2008
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oodhouse, Chairperson