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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-01/08/1987-SHENRY P. SMITH, President JOHN M. BREDEMEYER, Vice-Pres. PHILLIP J. GOUBEAUD ALBERT KRUPSKI, JR. ELLEN M. LARSEN BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN O1: SOUTHOLD Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 728 Southold, New York 11971 TELEPHONE (516) 765-1892 JANUARY 8, 1987 SPECIAL MEETING - 5:00 P.M. A special meeting of the Board of Trustees was held on January 8, 1987 at the Southold Town Hall, Mmin Road, Southold. The meeting was called to order by President Henry P. Smith at 5:00 P.M. Present were: President Henry P. Smith Vice President John M. Bredemeyer, III Trustee Phillip J. Goubeaud Trustee Ellen M. Larsen Trustee Albert Krupski Secretary Ilene Pfifferling Mr. John Wickham Mark Wooly, L.I. Traveler-Watchman President Smith turned the meeting over to Vice President John Bredemeyer. Trustee Bredemeyer explained why the special meeting was called. He advised that the Board executed a Waiver of meeting notice, and that the requirements of notifying the public was met. The following resolutions were adopted: Moved by Trustee Bredemeyer seconded by Trustee Larsen it was RESOLVED that the Southold Town Trustees declare its'elf lead agency in regard to the State Environmental Quality Review Act in the matter of the application of John Wickham for a Wetland Permit on certain property located on Grathwohl Road, New Suffolk. Vote of Board: Ayes: All This resolution was dec±ared duly adopted. AND FI, D BY T~iF. ~OUT~zO~D TOV~ ~ /t Town Clerk, Tovm of Southold Board of Trustees - Page 2. January 8, 1987 JOHN WIC~AM - CONDITIONAL NEGATIVE ENVIRONMENTAL ASSESSMENT Moved by Trustee Larsen seconded by Trustee Krupski the following conditional negative environmental assessment was declared: S.E.Q.R.A. NEGATIVE DECLARATION NOTICE OF NO SIGNIFICANT EFFECT ON THE ENVIRONMENT Date: January 8, 1987 NAME: John Wickham APPLICATION NO.: 487 Thi~otice is issued pursuant to the provisions of Article 8 of the Environmental Conservation Law State Environmental Quality Review and 6NYCRR Part 617, Section 617.10 and Chapter 44 of the Code of the Town of Southold, notice is hereby given that the Southold Town Trustees, as lead agency for the action described below has determined that the project will not have a significant effect on the environment. Please take further notice that this declaration should not be considered a determination made for any other department or agency which may also have an application pending for the same or similar project. TYPE OF ACTION: UNLISTED DESCRIPTION OF ACTION: To rebuild dike using only material washed away from the dike, adding wing wall to head wall and to armor. LOCATION OF PROJECT: Grathwohl Road, New Suffolk. CONDITIONS: Subjeet to the Conservation Advisory Comments and additional information on the rip rap. REASONS SUPPORTING THIS DETERMINATION: 1. An environmental assessment form has been submitted which indicated that there would be no adverse effect to the environment should the project be implemented as planned. 2. Because there has been no response in the allotted time from the Southold Town Building Dept. and the New York State D.E.C. it is assumed that there are no objections nor comments from those agencies. Vote of Board: Ayes: Ail This resolution was declared duly adopted. Board of Trustees - January 8, 1987 Special Meeting - Page 3. Moved by Trustee Bredemeyer seconded by Trustee Larsen it was RESOLVED that the Secretary is authorized to advertise for a public hearing to be held on Jan. 29, 1987 in regard to the John Wickham wetland application at 7:56 P.M. at the Town Hall, Main Road, Southotd. Vote of Board: Ayes: Ail This resolution was declared duly adopted. Moved by Trustee Bredemeyer seconded by Trustee Larsen it was RESOLVED that the Secretary is authorized to order an Aerial Photograph to be taken of the John Wickham property in New Suffolk to update the file. Vote of Board: Ayes: Ail This resolution was declared duly adopted. Moved by Trustee Smith seconded by Trustee Bredemeyer it was .RESOLVED that the Secretary is authorized to advertise in a Public Notice that as of March 1, 1987 Grandfather Applications will no longer be accepted since the creek survey has been completed and all persons were given ample time to register their structures. After said date for repair work to be done to an existing structure, a full application will be required. Persons with an existing structure without a permit will be in violation. Vote of Board: Ayes: Ail This resolution was declared duly adopted. Moved by Trustee Smith seconded by Trustee Goubeaud there being no further business to come properly before the Board the meeting was adjourned at 5:50 P.M. Iigne Pfifferli ~ JANUARY 8, 1987 5:00 P.M. - SPECIAL MEETING John Wickham - Wetland Application A Special meeting of the Board of Town Trustees was held o4 January 8, 1987 at the Town Hall, Main Road, Southold. The meeting was called to order by President Henry P.Smith at 5:00 P.M. PRESENT WERE: President Henry P. Smith Vice President John M. Bredemeyer, III Trustee Phillip J. Goubeaud Trustee Albert Krupski Trustee Ellen M. Larsen Secretary Ilene Pfifferling Mark Wooly - L.I. Traveler Watchman John Wickham President Henry Smith turned the meeting over to Vice President John Bredemeyer. Vice President Bredemeyer explained the Waiver of meeting notice. "We have requested this special meeting and we meet the requirements of notifying the public with the notice. It was non discussed at the last meeting. It was published in both the papers so that the public is advised. Basically, I requested this speciallmeeting from Henry because I felt that with the astronomical event which came almost within the day or so of getting the application for Mr. Wickham, I believe that iC would be a good idea to move ahead with his application. With an astronomical high tide it could do a lot of damage to the dike that he has. Although I hope it wouldn't happen, it's best to start moving ahead on the application. Hopefully maybe to grant some relief in a permit and that way avoid something that would be damaging to the creek and to the Town because the structure has been s~ressed as we all have seen when we were out there. By way of a littlm history from the last Trustee Board, to bring everyone up to date, apparently Mr. Wickham had a wash out after storn Gloria. He said he received some indications that he could repair the structure. The previous Board denied a Grandfather application. I think they wanted a more formal application on it. We find ourselves now, at a point where we do have an application, maybe this will help address some of the concerns over the work that proceeded earlier this year. We can look at what's there. Discuss it, and the number Board of Trustees - Page 2 January 8, 1987 of issues surrounding it, how the Board feels and then proceed with the action to grant a permit, or some sort o£ a waiver or what ~ver the~BQard feels. With that, I will open it up to the members of the Board if they want to have a general discussion? If we issue permits, we have a possibility of issuing two permits. One is a Trustee Permit for work that has taken place and will take place on Trustee land. Also a Wetlands Permit that will cover work under the Wetlands Ordinance which would be also in areas within 5' below MLW and of course up to 75' from MLW. This whole project being more or less above MHW and in that zone. Trustee Krupski: I can understand the rebuilding and armoring the dike. I couldn't quite understand the wing wall part of it. He said that he wants to add a wing wall on to it. Mr. Wickham: What happened, as I explained when I met the Trustees before the dike has a head wall to protect the dike gates. It is basically this shape (showing on map). The waves with any sourt of west or northwest wind hits this thing and would channel right into the dike and it cut it half out. The crest of the dike was at the center line. (indicated on map). What I wanted to do, of course, was to not only replace the material back on the dike but to put in a wing wall so that it would not happen again. Unfortunately I have not kept copies of my applications. I have been meticulous about sending notice to everyone. In general I have not kept copies of my applications. I'm sure, in my own mind I sent you copies of this sketch. Anyway, that is beside the point. This is the wing wall. It was built last fall, all completed before the middle of December. Trustee Krupski: Okay, now I understand it. Trustee Smith: How many years did this structure stay there before it had a wing wall put in? Mr. Wickham: Since 1944. Actually there was one period where I rebuilt the head wall. Actually this is the third set of culverts that I put in. The first two were galvanized steel with a coating. Electrolysis sets up and I think the second one only lasted about 8 years. The present culverts are PVC- 20" in diameter and an inch thick and 40 ft. long. They cost $1,000.00 a piece plum transportation from Ohio. Then we put stainless steel gates on them. About 20 years ago, we put in the PVC culverts and the stainless steel, at at that time I had Larry Tuthill rebuild the head wall. Again, always with permits and notification everything in order. I was a Town employee, in the public eye and I knew I wanted to be dam careful to do everything which upset me with the Trustees. I had spoken to them and made all of the arrangements. I said that it was an emergency operation, it was declared a State and National emergency thanks to the hurricane Gloria. In the fruit business we loose our shirt in every hurricane. Trustee Larsen: We could not give you a waiver without an application. So that was where the ..... Mr. Wickham: I did not understand that, I was told to proceed with the work, it was an emergency then submit the papers. It fell apart somewhere along the lines. I do not get upset. I said in my letter it was probably my fault. It does happen. Now we are starting from scratch. Board of Trustees - Page 3. January 8, 1987 Trustee Bredemeyer: I have a question on the proposed construction. You propose to armor the wing wall above MI{W so that in the storm events that are going to bring high energy waves up to that height which is not usual it will break up that energy and minimize this wash out. Which I think is a good idea. Question is, what are you going to do truck this material out over the dike? Bring it out a piece at a time? Mr. Wickham: No. I can get out there with a tractor with a three point hitch on it and a platform. If we go slow it can be done. The alternative is to either move it by water or by ice. Any one of the three depending on how it happens. I have the material from the old greenhouse. Trustee Larsen: You are asking for 20 ft. of wing wall? Will you explain that again? Trustee Smith: It is to the west. Trustee Krupski: It is existing. You can picture it in your mind from When we went out there. Trustee Bredemeyer: I think you mean the rip rap? Is that what your talking about? Mr. Wickham~'- Yes. Trustee Larsen: Okay. Trustee Bredemeyer: sides? Will that be East and West? Do you want to armor both Mr. Wickham: I would perfer to. Again, the South or East side is anchored in the bog. But again, with these storms it has the same effect. If I could drop a few slabs in there it would have the same effect. Trustee Bredemeyer: Of course, you ask here "Rebuild dike using all material washed away from dike". Are you referring to the operations that took place during the last year pretty much with that? Mr. Wickham: No, it is all done. This is in effect an original application. This is what I did. It is all completed. No more. Trustee Bredemeyer: That is what I wanted to clarify. Because I think, this is one Trustee, that feels that we do not wan~ any more material coming off from below MHW, unless that becomes a separate discussion. $~ inother words I want to clarify, "Rebuild dike using all material washed away from dike has been completed"? Mr. Wickham: Yes! Now there is another thing I would like to do and depending upon how you feel about it? There are two other places that you passed, where the whole dike is almost undercut above high water. No problem below high water, and this is well above high water, if you looked over the edge you would have seen that it is vertical orhndercut in two spots. If you look across from Grat~whol Road ydn ~a~ ~e t~at ~re ' ms no meadow bog in front of it. The meadow bog protects it. I'm the last one that wants to cue Board of Trustees - Page 4. January 8, 1987 that out. There are two places where there is no meadow bog. What I want to do is to place some more of this concrete above high water against the face of the dike. Probably not alot, I can't see myself this year spending alot of money to move this material. Farming is no get rich quick idea. Unless you want to sell land. Then it's great. I just heard of a house lot probably a ½ acre that was sold, waterfront, that sold for $240,000.00. I can't understand it. This was' within the month. Trustee Larsen: We will give you our card. Trustee Goubeaud: When do you plan on doing this work? Mr. Wickham: I can't tell you. Frankly, I'm in no great hurry. During the winter is not the time when the damage is done, in general, after November yes. When the ground is frozen, and we have phragmites on there and the water is held down by the ice. It is sometime a very good time to do the job. Take the stuff out, we have more time. But I have learned that you have to be very careful with a tractor on the dike when the ground is frozen. But, we have been in this business close to 40 years. We have come close to having some accidents, but so far we have been very careful. Trustee Smith: What is our main c6ncern here tonight? Jay, are we going to grant a wai~er? Will we make him go through the process? Trustee Bredemeyer: It will be the feelings of the Board how we will proceed. Trustee Smith: I feel that hurricane Gloria is something like 17 or 18 months behind us. I can't see where we can consider damage from hurricane Gloria right now as an emergency repair situation type of thing. This is only a year old. I think that this should go through the S.E.Q.R.A. process. Trustee Krupski: Unless if you think it is a repair that it could go under a waiver? Trustee Smith: That wing wall is a completely new structure. Placement of the rip rap is something that is foreign to anything that was there before. Mr. Wickham: Let's be honest, I'm sure that you know, in a business like ours we expect to pay the cost of what has to be done. I'm perfectly willing to pay the cost of what has to be done. I do want, however, to get something for my money. I want a reasonable deal. I would like to put the additional concrete in the two other spots. Trustee Larsen: I think that since the Trustees have reviewed the site, I don't know how the rest of the Trustees feel, we do have the application we can consider this as an environmental assessment, I don't know how the rest of the Board feels, we can take a lead, assess it and put it on for a public hearing this month? Moving it along, as far as the rip rap goes .... Trustee Bredemeyer: We could do a Conditional Assessment based on the comments from the C.A.C. if they have any comments or corrections we can take that up. Secretary: What about the D.E.C. we have to send them the application for comments. They have so many days to comment? Board of Trustees - Page 5. January 8, 1987 Trustee Bredemeyer: Mr. Wickham says he has a D.E.C. permit. Trustee Larsen: Yes he does. Trustee Bredemeyer: It is an unlisted action. We don't have to coordinate with the D.E.C. we can declare it as unlisted and conditionally negative deck it. Do you want to move a resolution on it? Trustee Larsen: The dike is essential, it is a flood control device. Maintenance of the dike is normally exempt from Trustee applications. Trustee Bredemeyer: Has the public notice been published yet. Secretary: I believe they are to be published on the 15th, next Thursday. I can still get it in for the 29th. Trustee Krupski: Then the hearing can be on the 29th? Secretary: Yes. Trustee Smith: I think that your compressing it to much. I think under the S.E.Q.R.A. process it is mandat, ed by state law, it has to go through the process. Trustee Gouk~aud: Mr. Wickham, since you don't know when you are going to do this work and since the process is only a three month process would it be a great hardship to you to go through the regular three month process? Since it starts getting nasty around February or March? Mr. Wickham: Would there be any possibility of clearing that rip rap before that? Trustee Larsen:Once we start to put it through the process it has to go through. Trustee Krupski: Unless we make an assessment on it tonight and then the public hearing would be in February? Then in March he could do it. Secretary: You cant act on the application until you have the C.A.C.'s comments. They have 20 days. Trustee Smith: Ask they to look at it and give us their comments by the 29th. Trustee Bredemeyer: If the notice goes in the basket by tomorrow the clock starts running. We have to get the time frames. We don't want to hop, skip on this. We can get the C.A.C.'s comments concurrently with the public hearing. Trustee Smith: We can ask them to look at this special. Mr. Wickham: I am very familiar with the situation. That is why we have good Secretaries. To keep you out of trouble. Trustee Bredemeyer: There is no minimum time for declaring lead agency or determination of significance, there is just maximums. Public comment after filing a notice, that would be only if you were preparing a D.E.I.S. so it would not be that. ~ ...... ~ ~ ~ Secretary: After you file your notice of significance, if it is unlisted, that ends the S.E.Q.R.A. process. Under the Wetland Ordinance, the C.A.C has to Board of Trustees - Page 6. January 8, 1987 give a recommendation within 20 days after receipt of the application, give a written report, Trustee Bredemeyer: If not It could be given to them. Secretary: They received it already, it is carboned copied on there. Trustee Bredemeyer: We would not be out of sequence on it. We could request that they give their written report by the next meeting. We could move ahead and have the public hearing and take their information in a lump sum. I would hate to find out that we pushed this thing for three months, if he can get a work condition that he can get in there, should we have another storm "Nelson" that was a March or April storm and have a chunk taken out of the sea wall. Trustee Larsen: Yes. Trustee Bredemeyer: Okay, I will move that we declare lead agency on this application. Trustee Larsen: I'll second that. Secretary: Vote of Board: Ayes: Ail Trustee Gouheaud: Would it be possible to tell us what your plans are behind the dike? Mr. Wickham: Well, because we are fruit farmers we are always planning at least ten years in the futur~. We have already five or six acres of blueberries planted. They Will live for 40 or 50 years. If they are not salted down with salt water. We have on paper a cooperative experiment with Cornell to grow cranberries on a few acres. At the same time I'm negotiating with the County Farmland Preservation to sell them everything in the Cutchogue/Mattituck School District. Ail of the land behind the dikes in that district. In the first phase they took a little of it. In this phase I'm offering everything that is in the Cutchogue School District. I am not at the present time offering the strip that is in the New Suffolk School District along Grathwhol Road. That is even more swampy as it turns' out. Trustee Smith: I thing there is a question with the Trustees, if you own all of that land. Trustee Bredemeyer: I think we should keep to our form of meeting order. Let's move the resolution on the present work and then we can have some more general discussion. It is an interesting topic and it can go on for a long time. Trustee Larsen: I move that this project receive a Negative Declaration under S.E.Q.R.A. it is an unlisted action to allow Mr. Wickham to maintain his dike with rip rap which is beneficial to the marine habitat it has a negative impact. Board of Trustees - Page 7 January 8, 1987 Trustee Krupski: I'll second that. Vote of Board: Ail members were in favor of this action. Ayes: all Trustee Smith: We will sem an additional application in on this rip rap? Trusnee Bredemeyer: There is a question here, yes, I was going to ask that subject to giving us an additional drawing showing us the two Other areas that you spoke of. If you can give us a copy of the tax map or something that will give us a little over view on that. The Clerk is to carbon copy the Conservation Advisory Council to give their comments prior to the next meeting at which time we will have the public hearing. Mr. Wickham: I have owned and paid taxes on' it singe 1944 at at that time it was the proceedure if there was any question of other interests of going through a tax sale and getting a tax deed from the County. We went through that. Trustee Bredemeyer: One of the listings in the County tax listings shows no tax payment on property. Is that a special category? In the County tax records there is one parcel that is attributed to you that shows zero monies under it. Unless that is some accounting... Mr. Wickham: I may have told you that I own virtually all of the meadow islands in that West Creek. The tax people have been just unbelievably unwilling to accept proof of title. By proof of title, I mean recorded in the County Clerk's Office of the County of Suffolk. They sent a survey crew in, and the survey crew did not pay any attention to property lines, they lust extended the ones from Meadow Lane right out to the middle of the channel. I have been back to them. I have paid taxes on that property before they put out the tax maps. Suddenly I am no longer paying taxes. I am going through a Bar Claim action on that. It is costing me $10,000.00 because the County is doing such a sloppy job. Trustee Bredemeyer: As Trustees, I think some of us are concerned that you probably have additional areas you may have s~aved to bring under cultivation~ We see wetland indicators on large areas behind the dike. I think that the Board would like to meec with you to discuss your plans so that we are not left in a position that we feel that there is someting going on that should have been permitted or we had a problem with. Maybe by keeping the lines of communication open we can prevent any problems. Mr. Wickham: Again, this is an Agricultural District, it was diked for Agricultural purposes. It was free from all reeds and brush at one time. I have allowed the reeds to grow only because I frankly don't know what to put in there. Trustee Bredemeyer: I think that we should have the lines of communication open. We should be on an qUp front" standing. Mr. Wickham: I will tell you, that eventually, probably not in my life time, this will be in Argic~lture.- ~B~'~s~!~, and oth~ people including the D.E.C. have been giving me the impression that you think that I would want to develop this sometime in the future. This is all the more reason that I would want to Board of Trustees - Page 8 January 8, 1987 sell the Development Rights. It is agricultural, it was diked for agricultural purposes, it was drained for agricultural purposes. I have drainage ditches all up in there where you can't see. All up parallel to Grathwohl Road all the way up to New Suffolk Lane. It has all been drained, ditched for agricultural purposes. Someday Dave Valenti it will be done. Almost all of the west side has been cleared and has blueberries growning on it. In 1966 there was a very high tide that come over the dike in a small place but it covered up the blueberries, but you can see them there. Trustee Larsen: I'm speaking for myself, but I think I can speak for the rest of the Board, I don't think our concerns are with the development. Our concerns lie with the cultivation of the areas that harbor the different types of spartina that are protected under the Wetland Ordinance and the D.E.C. Conservation Laws and Federal Laws as well. That is mainly my concern. What is the trade off to cultivate, to take tidal wetland areas and plant cranberries? Is the gain for a cranberry bog environmentally worth it? To give up a certain amount of acreage for this purpose? To give up tidal wetlands? We would be looking at this impact? Mr. Wickham: Now, wait a minute. This is not wetlands. Trustee Krupski: It was at one time. Mr. Wickham: It was 43 years ago. According to D.E.C. it is not tidal wetlands. Trustee Larsen: They don't have it'on their maps. Mr. Wickham: According to the D.E.C. it is not a wetlands. Technically they have, one of their rules says that"Behind substantial man made structures". Trustee Larsen: It falls behind the Article 25 line, because the dike was constructed before the D.E.C. regulated this. Mr. Wickham: Let me answer your question Ellen. There i~ no Spartina behind the dikes, of either variety. It has been freshwater for 43 years. Trustee Bredemeyer: No, there is some out there. It may be.freshwater but it does grow in relatively low salinities. There is some alterniflora on the inside section there, then it goes right to high tide bush. This is probably the only amount that is there. It is probably near the flow control is? The salinity is probably 5 parts per thousand. Something like that. I took a sample and had it run. It is about 5 parts per thousand, which is relatively low. Mr. Wickham: They don't work it 5 parts per thousand? They have another way to doing it? On agricultural isn't it 140 G or someting? This is beside the point. Basically speaking, all the land that we are interested in using for agriculture. On the land side of the dike there is still spartina of both kinds. In the area that we are considering farming, it is completely eraticated by the phragmites. Trustee Bredemeyer: I don't think that we will have a problem with that. I think Board of TRustees - Page 9 January 8, 1987 we will like to see before you start cutting, tilling, whatever. We want to see before you start. If we are going to have a problem, at least we will be out in the open, up front with it. Mr. Wickham: No problem, no question about that. Trustee Bredemeyer: With that, how about having a motion to adjourn? Trustee Smith: I'll make a motion. Trustee Goubeaud: I just want to know, John, before you started diking how far up the creek to the North did the dike go? Mr. Wickham: It goes under New Suffolk Lane. The pond, which we call Dam Meadow Pond, and the East side of New Suffolk Lane was soft. I don't know when the place got its name, but I do know that way under the concrete highway there is a hollow log. I assume there was a beaver dam there. Someone put this hollow log there to provide a drain long before there were steel culverts. Maybe 200 years ago. The road to New Suffolk was put in before the 1700's. I'm surprised that the salt content is so low because I think there is a leak back there. Trustee Smith: I make a motion to adjourn. Trustee Goubeaud: I'll second that motion to adjourn. Secretary: Ail approved: Ayes: All John Wickham - Additional Discussion Jan. 8, 1987 Trustee Smith: Wickham says that he is doing this for the Town. Come on he is growing fruit and trees behind there. Trustee Bredemeyer: I don't think we are going to have any choice but to investigate this. I assume that he will communicate with us. But if we have a problem with it, we will have to get legal counsel on it. We will have the Bay Constable to look at it. We will have to get a formal legal interpretation on it. Trustee Larsen: He will never face the fact that he can't do what he wants to there. Trustee Bredmmeyer: One Attorney's interpretation should be as good as another. The Agricultural Districts come due for renewal next year. If this comes to a conflict presently, we have every right to contact the Suffolk County Legislature and the Commissioner of the D.E.C. requesting that they review his Districts. Trustee Larsen: If we do that we have to substantiate why we are requesting the want the protection under the Wetlands. Trustee Goubeaud: Because he is destroying the wetlands for agricultural land. Trustee Bredemeyer: Maybe we can get an areal photograph this winter. Maybe if we have enough monies in our budget for research, we can stop the clock on this and reference to see what is there, put something in the files. Then we can reference this matter. We need an up to date map. Moved by Trustee Bredemeyer seconded by Trustee Larsen it was RESOLVED that the Trustee order an Aerial Photograph taken to update the file on the John Wickham property in New Suffolk. Vote of Board: Ayes: All Larsen: Send them a Suffolk County Tax Map and outline it or the Hagstrom Map. Mail it to them. Bredemeyer: Copies of prior maps on Leggio's property. Something in the last 5 years for the file. See the Building Dept. for possible map.