HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-10/19/1989 TRUSTEES
John M. Bredemeyer, III, President
Henry P. Smith, Vice President
Albert J. Krupski, Jr.
John L. Bednoski, Jr.
John B. Tuthill
Telephone (516) 765-1892
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
ScoTr L. HARRIS
Supervisor
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-1823
Telephone (516) 765-1800
Minutes
October 19, 1989
PRESENT WERE:
Frank A. Kujawski~ Jr., President
Albert J. Krupski, Jrt, Trustee
J. Bredemeyer, III, Trustee
Henry P. Smith, Trustee
John L. Bednoski, Jr., Trustee
Joan Schneider, Clerk
Jane Blados, Clerk
Work
Session: 6:00PM Discussion held on the following:
Dr. John Hansen as Environmental Consultant for Board
A1 Koke dredging project
Richard Snow regarding registration of gazebo, etc.
James Bitses,
Narrow River Project
Majors Terrace (Latham) on R.O.W.
Critical Environmental Areas (Jay to submit new list and
have maps available.
Next Board Meeting:
at 6:00PM.
Field Inspections:
November 16,1989 at 7:00PM, Work Session
November 14, 1989 at l:00PM
Call to Order
Pledge of Allegiance
Approval of August 24, 1989 minutes: Albert Krupski moved to
approve, second by Henry Smith. ALL AYES.
I. MONTHLY REPORT:
The Trustee monthly report for September, 1989, a check for
$3,461.00 was issued to the Supervisor's Office for deposit in
the General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin
Board for review.
III. COMMUNICATIONS:
Board of Trustees 2 October 19, 1989
1. Donald Dzenkowski, Senior Bay Constable on definition of
Little Neck Clams,(clam is to be 1"-1 9/16"in thickness), adding
that they should be kept from rest of the clams when taken for
commercial purposes. Resolved, motion by Albert Krupski, second
by John Bednoski. ALL AYES
Resolved that Conditional Shellfishing area will be operated
during hours of 8:00AM and 4:00PM. Moved by Henry Smith,
second by Albert Krupski. ALL AYES
Resolved that 400'x400' area in Jockey Creek off Lighthouse
Manor will be set aside for the purpose of starting a Spawner
Sanctuary. Moved by Frank Kujawski to approve, second by Albert
Krupski. ALL AYES
FRANK KUJAWSKI: While we're discussing with the Bay Constable,
we received this today. It's not part of the co~t~L~unications,
but I think we could add it in that Don is advising us, that as
of this date, the Marine Division is equipped to handle the
containment of oil spills and the the following equipment will
be carried in the bay constables vehicles: oil absorbent pads,
oil absorbent pillows, two 25' patrol vessels shall carry 40'
of oil containment boom, oil absorbent pads, and the pillows.
2. Christopher F. Smith, Cornell Cooperative Extension Marine
Program regarding dredging information. Letter read and filed
in dredging file in Trustees Office. Jay Bredemeyer and Chris
will be working to get together some information. Notify CAC
when information is sent to us.
IV. ASSESSMENTS:
J. John H. Geideman in behalf of Robert Keith re: a revised
application for catwalk, ramp and floating dock.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: First assessment is in behalf of Robert Keith.
There's a revised application now on the catwalk moving it to
the location we had in mind, the ramp and the floating dock. I
believe there's less dock and more float. Does anyone have any
comments on the assessment of this project?
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I think if you!re satisfied with it, Frank, you
are the most familiar with the area.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I'm much more satisfied.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: They included the wood walk. also?
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Yes, I'll pass this down. I'll be glad to offer
a motion to give it a negative declaration.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I'll second it.
ALL AYES
2o J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of Robert Searle, Fishers
Island
FRANK Kujawski: The second is J. M. O. Consulting in behalf of
Robert Searle of Fishers Island construct a single family
dwelling with associated sanitary system, gravel driveway on
property located across from Barlow Pond. Albert, Henry and
myself visited there last Tuesday. We had a discussion with
Glen on this piece of property and there are problems. I think
the applicant recognizes that, and not only that, but Fishers
Board of Trustees 3 October 19, 1989
Island is going to be entering the CEA classification, so
considering all of that, would someone like to make a motion
regarding a Type I or a positive declaration?
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to make this a positive
declaration.
HENRY SMITH: I have a problem giving it a complete positive
dec. I think these're a few areas we addressed, but all out in
a positive dec, I don't think it's necessary.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I think regarding the CEA area, I read where
the Suffolk County Legislature has already approved that. I
think regardless of the fact, that maybe a Type I would be more
in order and then we can decide on how extensive a review we
need.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I think so, because you could possibly
jeopardize the drinking water supply.
HENRY SMITH: All right, I'll second that.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: You'll modify that to a Type I?
AL: All right.
FRANK: Changing it to a Type I, and it's seconded by Henry.
Before we vote on the motion, Glen do you have any comments?
GLEN JUST: I'd like to know exactly what you mean by a Type I.
Is it going to be a SEQRA Type I that will not have a
significant effect on the environment?
Frank: No, it may possibly have a significant effect on the
environment. What do we do for the next step?
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I think we should sit down and decide what the
concerns are of this Board, possibly scope it with the
conservancy group over there.
HENRY SMITH: I talked to that...I asked that lady what their
main concern was over there. Their main concern was the
drinking water in Barlow Pond.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: That's basically my major concern.
HENRY SMITH: Right, I think we just address that...
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Are we scoping it now or...Well, I was
surprised to see the CEA designation had already been granted. I
thought the Town was going ahead with that.
SPEAKER: That is not official yet, Frank, until Governor
Cuomo signs it.
FRANK: You sure ~hout that.
GLEN: That's the law.
FRANK: Did you do a full environmental assessment when you
filed it?
GLEN: Yes, I did.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: We haven't voted on this motion, so..if that's
the case, maybe the next step would be to vote down the motion
that Albert made and I seconded, and we can table the assessment
on this until we sit down and look at the rest of it.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Sit down with Glen and the applicant or?
GLEN: Bring the engineer to the worksession.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Well, that might be good, to bring the
engineer, especially if he's going to have to do...
Brief discussion followed on whether or not to have engineer
present.
Board of Trustees 4 October 19, 1989
FRANK KUJAWSKI: OK, we'll set that up for 6:00 o'clock, then on
the next November meeting. I'd like to vote the motion down now,
everyone agrees nay on the motion? I make a motion to table the
assessment on this application until we have met with the
applicant and other concerned parties.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Second.
Frank: All in favor?
All Ayes
FRANK KUJAWSKI: OK, it's t~hled. A motion to recess the
meeting go begin our hearings.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: So moved.
HENRY SMITH: Second
ALL AYES
V. HEARINGS: 7:35PM
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AND AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE
SUFFOLK TIMES AND AND AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE LONG
ISLAND TRAVELERWATCHMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: The first hearing is in the matter of Land Use
Company on the behalf of Vera Cusumano to construct a 4'x42'
catwalk, a 3'x15' ramp, 5'x30' float, on property off of
Briarwood Lane in Cutchogue. Is there anyone here to speak in
favor of this application?
CHUCK BOWMAN, Land Use Co.: I'll be happy to answer any
q~estions if you have any.
FRANK: I don't think there were any major concerns. This was
approved by the CAC as s~bmitted and I don't believe any of the
Board members had any problems with it. Is there anyone here to
speak in opposition to this application? Seeing no one, thank
YOU, Chuck, I make a motion to close ..well, I don't think I can
just close the hearing. No, I need a motion to close the
hearing.
JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second, ALL AYES.
HENRY: You want to vote on it right away, Frank?
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Let's go through these. We only have a few,
unless you want to. We'll go through them and then we'll come
back.
7:36PM:
FRANK KUJAWSKI: The second hearing is in the matter of
En-Consultants on behalf of Gus Wade to construct a
4'x47'fixed dock, a 4'x14' ramp, and a 5'x30' float at
property located on East Creek at the end of East Road,
Cutchogue, NY. Is there anyone here to speak in favor' of this
application?
GUS WADE: Roy Haje is at the Town of Southampton tonight at
ten. I am here on my own behalf. Are there any questions the
audience might have, that might want answers, I'll be more than
happy to answer them.
Board of Trustees 5 October 19, 1989
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I had one question that I want to bring up..30'
float,..
SPEAKER: 40', 35'
FRANK: It's supposed to be 40'
ALBERT: 40' on the survey.
HENRY: 30' on the Public Hearing...
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I think your closest neighbor has got a 20'
float. Was there a purpose for the 40' float..are you trying to
reach a certain depth of water or...
GUS WADE: At low tide, there's only like about a foot of
water so it slopes off towards Mr. Nicole's house and at which
point, if I didn't go out that distance, the boat would hang up
and be sitting up on dry land.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Is it 40 or 30? .... 40?
GUS WADE: I believe ....
SPEAKER: Including the other notices, it says 30.
HENRY SMITH: What does it say on the application?
FRANK KUJAWSKI: The applications says 40.
HENRY: All right, it's 40 feet, then.
GUS WADE: Yeah, because what happens is at low tide we've got
to go out about 40 feet to get two feet of water, and I've got a
20' Roballo and it draws about 18" of water. If we didn't go
that distance, it would be hanging up. I didn't want to go for
a dredging permit.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: You didn't think to run the fixed portion
further out, fixed dock out further or was that going to be...
GUS WADE: Roy Haje and I discussed that. We went there at
low tide a couple of times, measured the depth~of the water,
figured it was the easiest way.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: OK
ALBERT KRUPSKI: What is the distance to.., who's the closest
neighbor there., to their dock?
.... Inaudible... I think, 300 feet..200 feet... GUS WADE: If
you want to make a survey, I could dredge it out, but then I've
got to go for a dredging permit.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Let's see if anyone is objecting to the length
of it, all right? Maybe we don't have a problem or maybe we do.
Is there anyone who would like to speak in objection to this
application? Mr. Nowacheck..
Thanks, Mr. President. I know every time you see me you think
it's trouble, but that's not true. I'm here representing the
attorney for Fleets Neck Property Owners Association. I'm very
familiar to the Board. Speaking in their behalf, we have no
objection whatsoever, to any property owner utilizing their
property for the purposes allowed and permitted by any
particular law statute. We have no objection, either,to put
that land use with any facility upon it, to utilize it in
conformity with any existing regulations, laws, and so on. I
just want to, historically look back two things for you. Number
one: There was an attempt, in this particular case, to get a
R.O.W. over your property to construct a dwelling, and that was
over an easement up by way of a deed of getting your property.
And there was another endeavor to get an easement by way of
Board of Trustees 6 October 19, 1989
construction of a bridge over your property, on the Town's
property. That was denied. You have to remember that going
back you revoked a permit and a building permit that was issued
by the Department of Buildings, here, because the permit for
building was issued with a perfect, unrecognizable factor that
access to this property was by water. You must recall, and your
lawyer will tell you, that the Town Law mandates that there
must be access to property from a public road, a public
thoroughfare. Now, I .... with the individual's review, the file
and the application here. We're fully familiar with all the
proceedings that took place. Cautionary, we want to support the
Board, the administration, and the integrity of the Board in
performing its jobs in protecting and enforcing the laws and
regulations. We also want to make sure that their property
rights are not violated by anything that happens. There was an
incident on South Fork involving a mansion. A gentleman was
given a permit for giving something that he could remodel. What
he really did was, he started doing the thing and the Town came
along and said you can't do this. This is not what we wanted to
give you the right to do, and the result was he said to them
it"ll take the Town and the taxpayers and I'll clean out your
pocket for all the money I lost doing this thing. I don't want
the Board and I just say this in support your integrity and your
good intensions and qualifications to the job the way it is,
that you shouldn't create an opening, an opening that may be,
quote,"access to property". You're talking about the length of
a dock 4'x47', a floating dock 6'x40', you could launch a
battleship. If it's within your jurisdiction_and the facility
is for normal use, for mooring alighting onto, alighting from a
boat or a boating facility, I think that's what catwalks, ramps,
floating docks are for. But if it's a means of going to the
Town Board and saying now to the Town, the Town Law says that
you must have access to your property to get a building permit
from a public roll. Why? Emergency vehicles must get there, fire
trucks, whateVer you have. And then if you gave him that right,
assumingly, and he gets this vehicle for transporting
construction equipment and it becomes a right of way, on to the
doCk, on to the ramp, on to the property. Are you in a position
to turn on him and say this is not what we intended to give you
the permit for. I look at the application in the file and I
found responses to your queries like, I have a DEC approval, I
had a DEC permit to build a one f~mily dwelling, I had a permit
from the Town of Southold to build a house, and it was revoked.
Gentlemen, if you look at the underlying applications, make the
applicant submit his application to the DEC on the basis of
which that DEC said it's ok to build that walk, that ramp, and
that dock. Let's see what the intension of the applicant is. I
don't say the intension is wrong, I do not. I do say for the
integrity of your position, your office and your job, add what
you are entrusted to do, don't be led into a situation, unless
really, you have full knowledge of all the facts, the underlying
applications, and what's stated in those applications,
gentlemen. Recall there was a DEC approval to build a home on
that thing, the permit was violated, all the conditions were
Board of Trustees 7 October 19, 1989
violated, resulted in the prosecution .... you don't want that
same repetition. Like I say, Fleets Neck Property Owners does
not object to the lawful use of the land, the lawful placement
of any facility for the quite, useful, peaceful enjoyment of
anybody's land. We certainly don't want a Pandora's box and a
lot of problems that will probably be a circumvention of
existing laws, rules, regulations within a federal, state or
municipal or particular regulation that you people abide by, and
I think that before a decision is made, that in~portant fact must
be rented very ctearly of what the intended use of that facility
is, and I say it behooves everybody that the underlying
application for the DEC should be made part of your file,
because there was certain representations that are made in that
application to the DEC, and unless you know what they are, you
may be misled and not fully informed before you make your
decision.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I have a comment to make on Mr. Nowacheck's
statement to the Board. I wonder if .... we're., got an
application for access to his property from Trustee access from
Trustee property, but it doesn't create an access from the road,
it's only from Trustee property to his property.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: There's two points here. We checked into this.
First point is that this Board has certain rights and legal
means to do things that other boards don't have the ability to,
because of our charter and the patent rights granted to us. One
of those is, if a permit is granted and the purposes of use of
that permit are other than what was granted by this Board, we
can revoke that peimit at any time. Second pointwould be that
it's customary in this town to grant any citizen the right to
traverse Trustee property for purposes of gaining access to
moorings that we have in town creeks and so on. So, I don't
believe there is anything unusual that is happening here, in my
viewpoint...more so than any citizen. Does anyone on the Board
have a comment?
HENRY SMITH: We have his .... in the past, I know what Mr.
Nowacheck was saying with the house, I mean that would be
considered a permanent access driveway, wells, electricity and
things like that. Temporary access we have granted people in
this town to repair bulkheads over Trustee land and to repair
bulkheads and docks, and things like that. So, I can't see
where there's any connection.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I believe, as a matter of fact, in the laws of
the Town, you are allowed to .. you're actually not allowed to
build a structure that prevents a horse-drawn cart from being
taken through Trustee land for the purposes of gathering salt
hay for food for animals,so..
MR. NOWACHECK: May I respond to that?
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Well, I would only say, Mr. Wade had his hand
up for a few moments and I think it would be his turn to
comment. We really need to keep an accurate record of this
hearing, so please use the microphone, Mr. Nowachecko
MR. WADE: Mr. Chairman, at the same time as we applied to the
Trustees for a permit to construct my dock, concurrently, we
applied to the DEC.
~Boar~ of Trustees 8 October 19, 1989
FRANK: We have that permit.
MR. WADE: Thank you, I just wanted to clarify Mr. Nowacheck,
that my permit from the DEC has already been issued along with
the Army Corps of Engineers to construct this dock. It is not
illegal, immoral or fattening, I would hope.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Nor does it included anything other than the
dock.
MR. WADE: Exactly!, and I would like to clarify that to this
Board, and any time at a later date, I need a permit from this
town for anything else, I will apply to the necessary board for
whatever permit is necessary to do whatever it is necessary to
do. Thank you.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: You're welcome.
MR. NOWACHECK: I want to respond to that. Mr. Wade, I said
nothing about being wrong or anything else. What I said was,
personally I looked at the application and I am not to assume, I
am just a layman, I'm not a member of The Board of Trustees that
actually, the ramp, the dock and the float is for purposes,
specifically for what it was applied for. It won't be put to
any other use. I didn't say you couldn't walk across Trustees'
property. What I'm saying is, nowhere in the application did I
say that this is going to be used. The first time I heard it
here that a boat was going to be brought to that dock and ramp
and the facility was going to be used for that purpose. If
that's the purpose, and that's in conformity with what it is,
that's fine. What I'm saying is that it should not be converted
to use other than the allowable, permissible, intended use and
that should be clearly specified not only by~th~ applicant on
the application to the DEC for their permit, but to you people
as well. I looked at the application, I think, that you have
there. You show me one response that says anything but that
they want to construct this thing without saying what it was
going to be used for.
FRANK: Well
MR. NOWACHECK: Can I ask you a question, Mr. President? If
the use of this floating dock and this ramp, you can tie up
seventeen boats to it, nose on. Is that an intended use?
HENRY SMITH: It's an illegal use.
MR. NOWACHECK: If I was going to say, if he was going to start
a boating construction materials into the thing and say now I
have a right of way. Is that a use? If I were going to bring
in on my boat a little jeep that could draw...take materials
constructing something on there, is that a legitimate use?
That's all I'm saying. I said nothing about nobody not having
the use, temporarily, by right of way to go across your
property. What I'm saying is that the use must be specific,
defined, allowed for, permissible.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I think that's in the Town Code for vessels,
marine vessels.
HENRY: That is correct.
MR. NOWACHECK: And if that's clear, fine.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: It is, I really think it is. I appreciate your
concern, I'm sure the Board appreciates it. We duly noted that
and it will be part of the record here.
Board of Trustees 9 October 19, 1989
MRo NOWACHECK: Speaking for Mr. Nicole, who wasn't here,
he's past president of Fleets Neck Property Owners Association
..I mentioned it to him..he would like to, if it's only for that
boat facility, that it not interfere, and the Association taking
the same thing, with the other users of the creek in the inlet
to be able to have ingress and then egress from their facilities
because of the extension of the facility that might be granted
for similar use to Mr. Wade.
HENRY SMITH: You c~n't block off navigation. That's in the ...
JOHN BREDEMEYER: If there's a problem, it'll have to be
altered. That's standing policy.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: We've done that before. We've had docks taken
out, we've had docks shortened, and we've had docks altered
because it does interfere with navigation. I'm sure Mr. Wade
and the construction of this, if you do see a potential problem,
would make a modification down and let the Board know.
GUS WADE: As I stated earlier, is that to go the extra 10
feet to get into the water deep enough and keep the boat there
instead of dredging it out, because going through a dredging
permit means whole, big lengthy process, I believe.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: It's not something we like to see in an area
like that.
MR. WADE: Thank you.
MR. NOWACHECK: Mr. President, one more thing. The Association
is very concerned about..you know, at the foot of the road, from
what happened before, there's still that black cinder paved
situation, ok, which has been and is a violation of the DEC
law because it's within the 75 or 80 feet. Y~know~, and nobody
ever did anything about taking that away, and the association is
rightfully concerned, now, that anybody could remove that
barrier and it's been done and use it for...and so on. What had
happened just recently is, and Mr. Vanderbeck, one of the old
timers of the association and a former officer, had.called the
police one day because what had happened, the barrier was
removed and some young people decided with their van and their
scuba diving equipment and their barbecue outfits and their
boat, they drove right on to that thing and boy, they are going
to have a great old time right on your property and everybody
elses.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: This was since we did. the improvements there?
SPEAKER: Well, was it?
FROM THE AUDIENCE: We saw it and after...
MR. NOWACHECK: It was in the same condition it's in now.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Okay, anybody else? Dr. Heneghan.
DR HENEGHAN: If the walk is out 47 feet, wOuldn't that bring
it out to the channel? If he wants to keep a boat there,
that'll be in the channel.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: The walk isn't 47 feet. It starts at the break
of the bank, so you have maybe, I don't know, maybe 10 or ~12
feet before you get into tidal area.
DR. HENEGHAN: OK
ALBERT KRUPSKI: But your considerings are valid.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I just think, in the construction of this, if
it becomes apparent that you've got what water you need, you
'Boara of Trustees 10 October 19, 1989
could shorten up. It's to your advantage, anyway, because one
good freeze this winter and whatever part of the permanent
structure happens to be in water, is going to come out.
MR. WADE: The water never freezes there, because the tidal
a~tion is so great around my point, that it never freezes there,
Frank.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: OK. Any other comments regarding this
application?
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I just have a comment to make about a 4' wide
dock. I know I make a comment every time we get a dock over 3
feet wide. I know how the Board feels about this.
HENRY SMITH: FoUr feet is the minimum.
FRANK: No, three feet was the minimum.
HENRY SMITH: I can't see any reason to go less than 4 feet.
That's a safe size of the dock.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: It's been customary in the past year. Any
other comments regarding this application? I'll make a motion
tO close the hearing.
SECOND, Albert Krupski
ALL AYES
FRANK KUJAWSKI: The
En-Consultants, Inc.
James Trentalange to
shoreline of Wickham
there anyone here to
next hearing is in the matter of
their application on behalf of Susan and
construct a 85' stone rip rap along the
Creek to Peconic Bay, Cutchogue, NY. Is
speak in favor of this application? Is
there anyone here to speak in opposition to this application?
T~e only comment that I would have is that the CAC did approved
this project as long as the applicant follo~.Hh~ plan submitted
and also suggested a natural vegetation buffer, which I think,
is a doubly good idea in this particular location. I'll make a
motion to close the hearing
HENRY SMITH: Second
ALL AYES
FRANKKUJAWSKI: Next application for a hearing is in the..from
Eh-Consultants in behalf of Janet Maddams to construct
bulkhead within 18" of existing bulkhead on property located on
the ROW off of Oaklawn Ave., Southold, NY. Anyone here to
speak in favor of this application? Anyone here to speak in
opposition to this application? Anyone on the Board have any
comments?
RENRY SMITH: Other than we looked at it, and I think ...
FRANK: Some unusual circumstances exist there
HENRY: We didn't have any problem with it. They wanted 18" in
front of...
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Wasn't there an opportunity here from the
contractor to do a little replanting somewhere else? Wasn't
that suggested by the contractor?
JOHN HOLZAPFEL: He was willing to go two for one,even, at one
point.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Yeah, two foot, which is a small area, but...
JOHN HOLZAPFEL: I mean, that's something you could take
advantage of.
FRANK: Some sea plants...
~Board of Trustees 11 October 19, 1989
ALBERT: That's exactly what I was thinking. Frank and I met
down there, Henry just missed us down there at Carl Vail's and
Mr. Vail has a problem with some sort of manual devegetation
on his property. We thought that that was the basic cause of
his erosion. I told him that he had a nude beach down there.
There was no vegetation and that...it's like a cover crop, it
protects the soil from washing away from the upland and from
erosion in the creek itself, and I just want the opportunity to
have some grass planted just about directly across the creek to
hold his property in.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I think we could make that part of the motion
if Dr. Samuels is the contractor°
ALBERT KRUPSKI: And we also need the cooperation of Mr. VAil.
FRANK: I did promise to get back to Mr. VAil with some
suggestions.
SPEAKER: Frank, I just think Roy was here that day. If I
remember correctly, Roy was the one ..and Samuels just backed up.
FRANK: Oh, Roy was the one who made the offer?
HENRY & AL: Dr. Samuels made the offer.
ALBERT: I don't think it would be really that inconvenient for
him to do it.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: .... projects at the same time with Dr.
Samuels, persuades him to go with him for whatever he's going to
put in.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Suppose Mike Mooney gets the job?
MIKE MOONEY: Inaudible...change the.. where she's going to go
with him because I already gave her a price for a replacement.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Did you really? P~
MIKE: Yes, for what the permit called for. When you rejected
it four years ago she told me I gave her that price. Well, he
came in and figured he could talk to you ...up front, which he
did.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Mike, you're starting to make .... We were told
it couldn't be done...
MIKE: Well, you listen to Doc Samuels. People told me I
couldn't get that wreck off the beach over in the ocean, and I
proved them all wrong.
HENRY: I think you have to see what the price was four years
ago. Maybe the price was prohibited for...I don't know.
FR~NK: Was there a major difference in price?
MIKE: That I don't know.
HENRY: Probably, not after four years, no. I think thatts a
major concern, the difference in price
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Yeah, but after four years it's probably the
same price.
HENRY SMITH: Well, four years, I don't think the man's going to
do it for the same price as four years ago.
ALBERT: No, I'm saying in front, he did it for the same price?
HENRY: That I don't know, Albert.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: IF Mike did it in kind, in place, we could
replant Carl Vail's beach.
HENRY SMITH: If he runs out of room to plant this grass, I got
room in front of my...
Board of Trustees 12 October 19, 1989
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Are there any more comments concerning this
application? Motion to close this hearing.
SO MOVED, ALBERT
ALL AYES.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: The last hearing is in the matter of the
application of En-Consultants on behalf of Nicholas
Theoharides to construct a dock, ramp, float, dredge 30x30
around float to .... (change tape) (not recorded..to 3' below
MLW,to construct 4'x70' fixed dock, 4'x16' ramp, and a
6'x16' float, property located at 800 Maple Ave., Southold,
NY.)
JOHN BREDEMEYER: (Beginning not taped) ..specific projects and
I think that was in line with what we discussed when I was in
the field with them. What he did say was 3 feet, he didn't
expect a problem with it from the engineering aspects nor the
slops. He was going to refer to Chris. He didn't feel there
was going to be a biological problem, but he was going to refer
to him, anyway. He said he did talk it over with Chris, and if
anything, there was a concern that they should carry at least
the same 3 feet out to constant depth, the main channel, so that
the use of an outboard wouldn't be churning the bottom going up
into the, you know, to the dock. He felt that environmentally,
it would be much more detrimental to be moving silt and other
material, and if we're going to give the 3 feet, he felt that
should probably go to constant depth, is what he said. And
pretty much though, he did defer to Chris and he was under the
impression Chris was going to write something specifically on
this, and of course, Chris's letter he did de~cide it would be
prudent not to, so I say it cautiously, that's what he said.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Anyone have any other comments? John, do you
have any comments on this.
JOHN HOLZAPFEL: I just thought what Jay said was an interesting
addition to the whole thing, you know, that you're not just
producing..you know, this guy's going to be running through. I
just heard that tonight, right now. I think that's an
interesting comment, you know that you're producing every time
you draw, you know, every time he pulls that thing in and out,
he's going to be cutting up the bottom. I'm not sure, I...you
know.. I have to think..I just don't have a feeling..but I think
it's an interesting point to note because that water is fairly
shallow there, all the way out to the channel, I guess, right?
HENRY SMITH: Black mayonnaise.
JOHN H. I don't know.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: We have mitigated this project, alot from its
initial submission.
JAY BREDEMEYER: I would say that, with respect, oh we're in a
public hearing, I don't want to talk extensively..
FRANK: We are at a public hearing.
Jay: I'm just going to make it brief. The scaled back project
seems in keeping with what was acceptable to, essentially
amounts to, a third opinion, through Sea Grant and my
inclination would be ...what we got, but leave it open to
amending if additional information we have would seem to make it
'Board of Trustees 13 October 19, 1989
that we should be allowing for the constant depth out to the
existing channels.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: My only comment in this public hearing is that
a ..the Board is so tentative at granting this permit for the
dredging and then the Board to pass a ban on dredging in this
creek because of its concerns and because of its lack of
information on exactly the facts of such dredging. That's my
comment.
HENRY SMITH: Well, we put a ban on dredging in the creek, but
we specifically excluded this application, so that should have
no baring on the .....
ALBERT: But it does.
HENRY: ..or the effectiveness,..Well, when it was put in, it
was..it was not to be...
ALBERT: But...
HENRY: But, that's the way it was.
J. BREDEMEYER: Actually, an additional look, an inquiry with Sea
Grant was to ,if you will, .... that this project would not have
been detrimental in that context, and I think that's why I,you
know, I made the extra effort to get to them on that, also. We
did, more or less, to try to effect the moratorium so that it
wouldn't affect any existing applications, which we did feel
were pretty well mitigated. I'll tell you, Chris and Jay, both
didn't feel they had much problem with it. They looked at a map
and said you should maintain good flushing, and he went so far
as to discuss techniques they are using in Connecticut to
reclaim the head waters of creeks using high pressure water hose
and actually blowing the silt right out, and. blowing this
g~opy stuff, like the mayonnaise, off the base, getting back
down to sand and shell base.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Back on the neighbor's side?
JAY: Well, yes..neighbors are always amenable to these things.
FRANK: Should try that there and all the rain in Henry's
channel.
HENRY: Well, I'll tell you what..
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Anyone in the audience have any comments
regarding this application? Mike, you're going to sit there,
huh?
MIKE: No. I'm willing, after a year of this, in coming to see
your cheerful faces, i'm glad we have this thing hammered out
and I can go along with Jay's reasoning there as traverser of
all these shallow creeks. I do know that, in the course of doing
business, I do have to go in shallow water whether its an
outboard, which I can now push around with my barge or with my
big Chris Craft, it doesn't matter. You stir it up, and if we
can avoid that problem in the long run, do it the one time, the
dredging, give them water, it's done with for the course of the
project for years down the road instead of having something
that's a daily or weekly occurrence. If the problem with
stirring the bottom..If it seems to be something that will be
avoided, now is the time to take care of it and watch it, and
see if it does make a difference. I don't know how we can
measure it, it's something that at least, in that channelway
that we would put in there, you'd be able to tell, if you scoop
-Boar~ of Trustees 14 October 19, 1989
, ~- s~ ~:~3-S,n~z get some growth in there or something that
·N' ~ -~--i~ to make a difference. It would be a good case
~z._=~_ .... project is done, when you approve it tonight, I
HENRY SMITH: Well, another thing, too, I think you've got to
keep in mind, that the road run off going into this creek from
the head land, from the farms..the fa~ers aren't plowing right,
they go crossway instead of straight up and down or vise versa.
That end of the creek has been filled in. I've talked to Walter
Ad,son and Wesley Be~oski when he was still alive, ~d
Chet Berry and they said, as kids, we used to run an outboard
up there all the time, and now you can't row a boat there at low
tide, so historically, it's filled in with the runoff from the
roads.
MIKE MOONEY: If you would take into consideration, people
raking~n~- ...... leaves down the side of the road o~~ ~_~ ~
~ ~er e~e of ~ .... M~n~, you've got the
f~renuus~, a~ that runoff even up to the railroad track on
x= comes dowm uha= road. All those leaves have been
~a~e ..... years would develop in the area. You've got
them fiiiin~ in~ My perfuse budget dredging like something Jay
just said ===~==3 ...... ~= doing in Co~ecticut, starting to open up a
channel~ maybe help carry some of these new ...out...to help the
shell .... ...
fxsn and the fish
HE~Y ~ ....
o~,~z~n~ Right at Ulhrich's Marine, the State goes in
there every year and dig that out because it fills in right
there, so a~-s historic, the problem that was. created by the
road runoff. T~he State put in that great big draining project
back in *~ =n,s
........ ~at's what happens now. Everything runs
into the creeks.
MI~ MOONEY: Hopefully, we can, you know, this will answer
an~ore problems we have with this progr~. Hopefully, we'll
resolve it tonight.
F~{K KUJAWSKI: OK, are there an~ore coE~ents. A motion to
close this hearing?
~NRY SMITH: i make a motion to close this hearing.
A~=z ~ Krupski
Second, '~
ALL AYES.
F~VK KUJA%~SKI: is there a motion in the matter of Cus~ano?
ALBERT KRUPSKi: i make a motion to approve.
Seconded ~
~= John Bednoski.
ALL AYES
FR~{K: In ~= ...... ~u==r of Gus Wade
ALBERT: %~at were the CAC comments on that?
JO~ HOLZAPFEL: We didn't have any, because what happened was,
we didn't have a position, no I'll tell you what happened. ?wo
mon=~, ~.=neve~ we got it, there was no position of the dock on
the -- ~4~. *~-~,
app~a~io~ so I know I went back last month to our meeting
and said t~hat he presented the diagram and I just vocally said
we have all seen the place a hundred times. This is what he
wants to ~o, he wants to put in a dock, but we di~t fo~aiiy
take a mou~u~ on it. But our feeling, I think, is what your
feeling_ ~o~ ~ it's a dock, you know, it's~o ~ =n~r~r~e~.~a~y~ "' ~ ~ ~
Board of Trustees 15 October 19, 1989
harming than any other dock in Southold Town. The one concern,
after tonight, is that it is a segmentation, if it is in
reality, and I don't think...
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Well, I tried to follow that avenue and it
doesn't lead anywhere, because it's a "supposa".
JOHN HOLZAPFEL: Oh yeah, that's what I say. You can't base
decisions on it, but when it does come back, you can at least
say that he segmented the.., if it ever does..
JOHN BREDEMEYER: You won't be able to do anything with it,
either. I brought it up,too,...then you go segmented what. It
wasn't like he's segmented to subvert the intent. It's not like
a dock wouldn't ordinarily be approved.
JOHN HOLZAPFEL: That's why we don't have any environmental
concerns about the dock.
HENRY SMITH: I make a motion that we approve the dock
application of Gus Wade.
Seconded by John Bednoski
ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Could I just add...should we just run this
across the desk of the Town Attorney if wants to tack some
language on with the codes or anything..in other words ..
N~mber of voices in opposition..
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Don't make problems, don't make waves, ok.
HENRY: Leave it alone.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I think the motion was to approve the
application to construct the dock, ramp and the float for the
purposes of tying up a boat, a recreational boat. This is one
of those cases where I would like to put a time limit on this.
We have a right to do that. I don't want this, five years from
now, to come up again or construction to start.
JAY BREDEMEYER: Make the permit run for two years with no
extension?
FRANK: Who made the original motion?
HENRY: I did.
FRANK: So, Henry, will you make that as part of the original
motion?
HENRY: NO, because we historically, if someone's come back for
an extension...one, one extension we have granted before, so I
don't think it will..if we do this, I don't think it will hold
up in court. I would say, give him a one year ......
FRANK: It's part of Chapter 97. The Trustees have a right to
put a time limit on a permit and it's something we should have
exercised in cases of..oI'll give you an example of the Kramer
property in Mattituck, I was told. If we'd put a time limit on
that, then maybe we would forced somebodyto build a house,
ok, but on the other hand, we wouldn't still be looking at a
cleared lot with a potential ..ah..ten years, right now. In
other words, it's being jockeyed around for the price going up.
Every time it trades hands, the price goes up another twenty
thousand dollars or hundred thousand dollars, or whatever.
HENRY: Don't get me wrong. I don't want this to go on forever,
but I want to have something we can sink our teeth into.
~Board of Trustees 16 October 19, 1989
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Let's vote,then, on Henry's motion and ah;
we'll have to make another motion for those of us that
want..permits are two years.
HERNRY: Permits. are two years.
FRANK: What we're saying, this particular application to be
valid would have to be constructed within two years, no
extensions. You go along with that?
HENRY: I'll go along with that, sure.
FRANK: Seconded by John Bednoski, All in favor?
ALL AYES
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Is there a motion in the matter of Susan and
James Trentalange? I'll make a motion to approve that.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Second
ALL AYES
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Is there a motion in the matter of Janet
Maddams?
Move to approve: John Bednoski
Henry Smith: I'll second it with the stipulation that we get
the contractoro.that he is going to replace the area of the
marsh destroyed on a two to one basis and it will be planted to..
FRANK KUJAWSKI: At the discretion of the Board the location
will be decided by the Board.
Henry: Correct, second.
All in favor?
Four ayes, one nay.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: The last one is in the matter of Nicholas
Theoharides. Come on, Henry.
HENRY SMITH: I make a motion we approve the.:~pplication of
Nicholas Thoeharides, my neighbor.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Second.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: What we're approving in this motion, if it
carries is,..~
HENRY SMITH: Well, the way I look at it here, it's just the way
it is written here, a 4'x76' dock, a'4x'16 ramp to a
6'xl6'float, and dredge it 30 by 30' area around float to 3'
below MLW. The property is located at 800 Maple Ave.,Southold,
NY.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: The motion has been made and seconded.
Four AMes, on nay.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: OK, I'm going to page two, number 3, under
assessments..I have to tell the Board that, I know I had called
of you, and asked if you would make a settlement With Mr.
Geraghty on his violation and approve what he had there, if it
were reseeded° Since then, on October 6, we got another
letter, after I told them we would go along with this, and you
ought to make your own decision. (Letter read, in
fileo..proposed to place a maximum of approximately 1000 yards
of spoil on existing filled areas). Well, that's not what I
described to all of you.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Why don't we make him survey it, stake it, so
we could see how the 7' grade would come out. ..put it on field
survey.
Boar~ of Trustees 17 October 19, 1989
FRANK KUJAWSKI: So,is it the consensus to table the assessment
of this to re~aest the applicant to stake the property where the
fill will be placed and graded, and the Board will re-inspect.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: How will we know what the elevation of 7' will
be? How are you going to do that?
Speakers: Mark it on the stake.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: A licensed surveyor..
FRANK KUJAWSKI: I'll make that motion.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Second
ALL AYES.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: That takes care of the assessments, that takes
care of hearings... Mr. Spitaliere.. Is there a motion in
the matter of A1 Koke's application for maintenance dredging?
HENRY SMITH: I make a motion that we give it a negative dec.
Second: John Bednoski
ALL AYES
FRANK KUJAWSKI: We need to send a letter to DEC that we have
ended the SEQRA process and that..ah...review.
VI. AMENDMENTS:
FRANK KUJAWSKI:
Mr. Spitaliere would like to transfer his permit ~3741 from
his name to Charles Bleifeld, who is the new owner of the
property for which the permit was originally issued. I'll make
a motion to approve that transfer.
Second: A1 KrupSki
John Bredemeyer: Are they transferable?
FRANK KUJAWSKI: By resolution of the Board.
ALL AYES.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Number two is Richard Bozsnyak 6425 Skunk
Lane to amend permit to include a 12' addition to a fixed dock
and to reposition the existing ramp and float.
AL KRUPSKI: I was there checking it out and I don't think
you'll have a problem with it. There's a little contour in the
creek, if he stuck out another 12' he'd only be out 2 or 3 feet
past his neighbor to the north.
FRANK: No interference?
AL KRUPSKI: No interference at all. I'll make a motion to
grant this amendment.
Second: Frank Kujawski
ALL AYES:
VII. WAIVERS:
1. En-Consultants in behalf of Russell Ireland, Peconic Bay
Blvd, Laurel, NY to remove and replace in same configuration,
30'timber groin located in Peconic Bay. A motion by Frank
Kujawski to deny the waiver, requesting the review of this
application as a full permit, seconded by John Bednoski. All in
favor.
2. John Gutleber, 1325 Lupton's Point Road, Mattituck, NY
for the construction of deck to existing single family dwelling,
located on Deep Hole Creek. Frank Kujawski made a motion to
grant the waiver, seconded by Henry Smith. ALL AYES.
~oard of Trustees 18 October 19, 1989
3. Environment East in behalf of Richard Anderson R.O.W. off
Wunneweta Road, Cutchogue, NY to construct accessory building
75'from Wunneweta Pond.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I make a motion to grant him the waiver.
HENRY SMITH: I'll second it.
ALL AYES
4. Margaret McGwire for a waiver to construct accessory
building on property located on Campfire Lane, Peconic, NY.
Frank Kujawski made a motion to grant the waiver, seconded by A1
Krupski.
ALL AYES.
5. Alan Cardinale, waiver for construction of single family
dwelling with associated sanitary system and swimming pool.
Property located on R.O.W. off Main Road, Mattituck, NY on James
Creek. Frank Kujawski made a motion to table, seconded by John
Bredemeyer. Board to inspect. John Hotzapfel of CAC commented.
ALL AYES.
6. Valerie Kramer to construct a single family dwelling
within 21' of bulkhead on Sterling Creek. Property located
between Robinson Road and Manhanset Ave., Greenport, NY. John
Bredemeyer, who inspected the project, made a motion to waive,
seconded byA1 Krupski. A~L AYES.
7. Edson and Bruer in behalf of Michael and Judi Fouchet, to
construct a single family dwelling on Seawood Drive, Southold,
NY. John Bednoski made a motion to grant waiver, with
stipulation that hay bales be used to contain run-off. Frank
Kujawski seconded this motion. ALL AYES
IX. GRANDFATHER PERMITS:
1. Robert and Rita Wieczorek, corner of Oak and Pine Ave.,
Goose Bay Estates, Southold, NY., permit for existing dock.
Motion by Henry Smith to grant Grandfather, seconded by John
Bednoski. ALL AYES. ((Henry Smith to make sketch)
X. MOORINGS:
Approval of renewing November renewals, motion by Frank Kujawski
to approve, a second by A1 Krupski. ALL AYES.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Is there any business the Board members have to
bring up?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: I did a field inspection, which was a Planning
Board referral for Henry Ra!rnor, for a map in Orient. (Major's
Terrace) My only comment was ..with the pond, I grew up almost
in the same spot. They are proposing a 10' R.O.W. right at the
shoreline of the pond,, and that's right at the vegetation,
there's about 25' of vegetation. I recommend that the R.O.W. be
moved so it's at least landward of the buffer which puts it
somewhere above the 10' contour line; no, no, we can't do it
that way. Make it 75' from the waters edge.
FRANK KUJAWSKI: Motion to adjourn?
HENRY SMITH: So moved.
AL KRUPSKI: Second.
MEETING ADJOURNED
Blados, Clerk