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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-10/03/1991 TRUSTEES John M. Bredemeyer, III. President Albert J. Krupski, Jr., Vice President Henry P. Smith John B. Tuthill William G. Albertson Telephone (516) 765-1892 Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD SUPERVISOR SCOTT L. HARRIS Town Hall 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold. New York 11971 MINUTES OCTOBER 3, 1991 PRESENT WERE: John M. Bredemeyer, President Henry P. Smith, Vice-President Albert J. Krupski, Jr., Member John L. Bednoski, Jr., Member John B. Tuthill, Member Jill M. Thorp, Clerk Call meeting to order Pledge of Allegiance Next Trustee Board Meeting: Thursday, November 14, 1991. 7 P.~. Worksession: 6:00 P.M. Next Field Inspection: Thursday, November 7, 1991 at 8:00 A.M. Approve Minutes: Of July 11, 1991 regular meeting and August 1, 1991 regular meeting. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUFSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE SMITH to approve minutes. ALL AYES. I. MONTHLY REPORT: Trustees monthly report for August 1991: A check for $2,857.03 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund. II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for review. III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES: 1. Creative Environmental Design on behalf of William Fishlinger request waiver to construct decks and steps as proposed on survey dated July 8, 1991. Located on Pine Tree Road, Cutchoque. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE SMITH to approve waiver. ALL AYES. .ABoard of Trustees 2 October 3, 1991 THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS FOR PERMTTS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE' TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE SUFFOLK TIMES AND AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE LONG ISLAND TRAVELER-WATCHMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. 7:18 P.M. - In the matter of John Geideman on behalf of Pauline Israel to construct a 4' X 12' catwalk; 3' X 10' ramp, 6' X 20' float. Located at Osprey Nest Road, Greenport. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this application? Is there anyone here who wishes to speak against this application? There being no co~muent, TruStees? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does this come off of a bulkhead? TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Yes. I believe the CAC approved this application. A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE TUTHILL to close the public hearing in this matter. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI to approve this application. ALL AYES. 7:19 P.M. - In the matter of En-Consultants on behalf of Pat Calagiuri to install from an existing bulkhead, a 3' X 12' hinged ramp leading to a 6' X 30' float. Float will be secured by (2) sets of 2 pile dolphins. Located at Bungalow Lane, Mattituck. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this application? Anyone here who wish to speak against this application? There being no c~uents, Trustees.?--Being no further comments, I will take a motion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to approve this application. TRUSTEE SMITH: Second. ALL AYES. 7:20 P.M. In the matter of Costello Marine on behalf of Dorothy Northridge to 'replace deteriorated bulkhead, (62') construct new bulkhead 58' and 10' return attaching to existing bulkhead. Install 3 support batter piles to existing bulkhead. Approx. 30 yds of clean fill will be trucked in. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak an behalf of this appIication? (Sueiof Costello in Audience). Anyone here who wishes to speak against this application? The Board of Trustees has asked for a revision and it has been submitted. The structure will hug the natural lay of the land. Any further comments from the Board? There being none, I will take a motion to close the hearing in this matter. TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved TRUSTEE BEDNOSKI: Second. AbStain: Bredemeyer; Ayes: Smith, Bednoski, Krupski, ?uthill. TRUSTEE SMITH: I'll make a motion to .approve this application. TRUSTEE TUTHILL: Second. Abstain: Bredemeyer; Ayes: Smith, Bednoski, Krupski, Tuthill. .%Board of Trustees 3 October 3, 1991 7:23 P.M. - In the matter of Land Use Co. on behalf of Mark and Lisa Davis to construct a single family dwelling with attached garage and driveway as Indicated on map dated August 22, 1991. Located Peconic Bay Blvd., Mattituck. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this application. CHARLES BOWMAN: Charles Bowman representing Mark and Lisa Davis. You are in receipt of the amended plan as request by DEC with the expanded buffer area. I. think it addresses all the issues. If you have any questions, I'll be happy to answer them for you. TRUSTEE BREDE~EYER: Just for a point of information, this application was one that we decided with a change in policy we were going to require full permit process, so we are no longer granting waivers on single family houses. The Board felt that the applicant did set aside a good conservation area around the pond. I think would have otherwise processed this under a waiver, but for the fact that we invoked a new policy effective the night that this matter came before us. CHARLES ~: we also show dr~wells containing roof runoff... TRUSTEE B~RDEMEYER: O.K. Thank you. Is there anyone else here to speak on behalf of this application? Is there anyone here who wishes to speak against this application? There being no comments, any additional comments from the Board? Being none, I will take a motion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE SMITf{: I make a motion that we approve this application. TRUSTEE TUT~ILL: Second. ALL AYES. 7:25 P.M. - In the matter of Land Use Company on behalf of Corey Creek Association to install a 4' X 35' timber catwalk leading to a 3' X 10' ramp, 6' X 105' float with (4) 3' X 18' fingers & (l) 3' X 26' finger, 20 mooring piles. An "L" shaped 2' X 55' catwalk and 4' X 10' float will be removed. There will be no dredging, catwalk will be elevated over existing tidal wetland areas and facility will be utilized only by property owners of Corey Creek Estates. Is there anyone Who wishes to speak on behalf of this application? Charles Bowman: Charles Bowman on behalf of the Corey Creek Associates. I would just like to point out that this is strictly for the use of the Association. There are quite a few boats utilized on this site right now. Moorings and on docks. It was thought by the Association that this would be one way of limiting the number of boats that would be able to use the end of the road. As well as keeping some sort of control on it. We have been trying to work with the Board. We don't want to be the cause of any shellfish closures, that is why the project was down sized. We have also volunteered to put in some road improvements to intercept road runoff that would normally enter the Creek. As well as other restrictions, limiting boat size, no heads. The list goes on. If there are any comments here, I would like the opportunity to work with the community and Board to see if we can resolve the situation. Thank you. TRUSTEE SMITH: Is Corey Creek Lane a private road? '--Board of Trustees 4 October 3, 1991 MR. BOWMAN: Yes. TRUSTEE SMITH: So the residence would have control over it. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: If this process is favorable and continues to move on, would it be possible that the applicants could put in one or more of those road drains. I don't know if that would serve that area. We didn't have any drainage calculations with that. MR. BOWMAN: That is something we could certainly have calculated. We could provide you with that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How many homes are there in Corey Creek Estates. DON DEMEREST: 24 properties and about half of that is homes. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: This plan has also has gone through a number of amendments to try afford Mr. Don Alfano rights to a slip there, since he has pre-existing rights to mooring space right in that area. The Community has afforded him his continued rights if it is an approvable project. Is there anyone else here who would like to speak on behalf of this application? Is there anyone here who wishes to speak against this application? Trustees? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How many boats is this suppose to accoz~odate? MR. BOWMAN: Right now we are down to ten boats. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The DEC limitation is that more then ten boats becomes a marina. We have automatic interception with National Shellfish Sanitation Program Guidelines that would cause an area closure. With the possibility of no head rule, similar to what we have out at Narrow River Marina, and a few other restraints we should avoid any regulatory closure what-so-ever. This is Trustee land and we have removed all impediments to a closure under Federal rules of Shellfish Sanitation. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: At the present time. MR. BOWMAN: I think it is also important to note this will also preclude any further expansion of any moorings and docks added on it. The Association people are will to covenant it. This is it. This is for the use of the association only. This is all they get. With that many properties, each one of them could come down and request a mooring permit. I think in this way they are looking at a self limiting. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't agree that this would be self limiting. I can't possibly conceive 24 land owners agreeing on who gets ten slips. Especially in where we have seen that people having one or more boats in a household. And you are saying that no one is going to have any other need for any kind of expansion. MR. BOWMAN: Certainly in the future.. I would agree with you. The Association is all on board. They are able to limit themselves right now for the future. It will be on a first come first serve. If somebody gives up there slip, maybe or maybe not, there will be someone to take it over. They are all in agreement right now, so they are able to put these limitations on themselves. DON DEMEREST: Don Demerest from Corey Creek Association. We had a meeting two years ago when I was president of the '.~-Board of Trustees 5 October 3, 1991 organization and we had everybody, all property owners, attend this meeting. We set up a c~.plete structure for a marina association. We where going to have a separate thing from the association. Everyone there agreed to the fact that we were going to have a limited amount of docks and everyone would comply to that. These docks would eventually be taking over by the entire association. And everyone agreed to a waiting list and that is the way it stood at that time. So the entire association, not just people with boats, know what is going on. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. Thank you. It is just a concern of the Board because some of our major problems right now are neighborhood squabbles. People change in the Associations. MR. BOWMAN: We do have in addition some restriction that is going to remove that as a consideration or a possibility where certainly just moorings they could come in and you could have. 24 applications like you do on many of the other creeks. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What would prevent them from applying for moorings. MR. BOWF~AN: There is going to be restrictions. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We can always require covenants at the permitting stage. We are a long way from that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. Another questions .is, ten slips here plus the two extra floating dock, is that going to constitute a marina. That is fourteen slips. MR. BOWMAN: Those docks are going to be removed. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Those docks are coming out. The community facility is that there.., it is a good question in the sense that we may have the DEC trying to impose additional closures on creeks in general just because the presents of boats. We have our creek survey data, which is just awaiting one of the Trustees to come in and tabulate all the data on it. We should have a good basis to show. All the stuff I have been seeing come in, we just don't have heads in the creeks. We should have a good statistical for requesting relief so they just won,t have these types of closures. MR. BOWMAN: This is also a positive, we are now able to restrict the size boat that is in there opposed to just having someone else have a mooring. You do have the ability to prevent larger boats coming into the creek. Which I think is the goal that you want to accomplish there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Certainly. There is one dock to the west side of the property. I see the other two are to be removed. That one dosen't say that. Will that one be removed? MR. Bowman: No, that is a private dock. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: They are in the association but it is a private dock. MR. BOWMAN: There are water front parcels that will still have their docks. These are for inland property owners. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I understand that but this still does originate from that... TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: It is a good question. It is not a question that we can't answer. I think it is something that we can go back to the DEC and shape up. MR. BOWMAN: I don't think it is going to be counted as a ... . ~Board of Trustees- 6 October 3 1991 TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I don't think it can.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't know. I can't agree with you because if that comes off the same parcel you can also put in additional two or three after that and say it is not part of the complex, its private ones. MR. BOWMAN: Our intent is not to have the area Closed. We will do anything. If it removing another slip, we will do that. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Are there any other questions from the Board? There being none, I will take a motion to close the hearing in this matter. TRUSTEE TUTHILL: S~ moved. TRUSTEE BEDNOSKI: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: O.K. Instead of an approval on this the Board could entertain a motion for a negative declaration pursuant to SEQRA for the plan before us. TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion we grant a negative declaration for the Corey Creek Association. TRUSTEE TUTHILL: So moved. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Another thing I would like to check with our Town Attorney is if the DEC changes their closure limit how we can alter that so .we would be in fact under a closure because the DEC changed there guidelines to eight boats or six boats or boats under 12' or whatever they are going to change it to in the future. TRUSTEE SMITE: I can't see that, if that got.., and are granted permission for that, we can't change it because they want to change it down the line and take peoples docks away. That is wrong. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I agree. TRUSTE~ SMITH: They went across, they compromised, they did everything they possibly can. This is a good project. They are keeping the creek open. Lets not beat it to death. TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I think the fact is that they will have an experience rate that will also be able to show they abided with there restrictive covenants... TRUSTEE BREDEMA~fER: At this time I have the pleasure of introducing you to Judge Sharretts of Southampton. Judge Sharrets report was read for the record. A discussion with the Board and Judge Sharretts was held. V. RESOLUTIONS: 1. Wikcham, Wickham & Bressler on behalf of Harold Casin request grandfather permit for bulkhead. Located on 950 Strohson Road, Cutchogue. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE BEDNOSKI to issue a grandfather permit for the bulkhead. ALL AYES. A grandfather application will be needed for the catwalk. 2. Joseph Cornacchia - A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE BREDEMA~¥ER to except application as complete~ Board will ask applicant to put a fence on the foot bridge so predators cannot get on island. ALL AYES. ~.'Board of Trustees 7 October 3, 1991 A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER and seconded by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI to grant emergency authorization to start the work so project can be done prior to Winter. VI. MOORINGS: 1. Joe & RoSemary Stadler request mooring in ~oose Creek for a 25' Chris Craft with mushroom. Public Access. A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and second TRUSTEE BRE~EMEYER to approve mooring with 1001b mushroom. ALL AYES. 2. Aaron Avent & Patrick Kaelin request permit for Duck blind in West Creek. Access of John Wickham land off Grathwohl Road with permission from owner. A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER and seconded by TRUSTEE SMIT~ to approve duck blind as long as blind is out of water by April 1, 1992. ALL AYES. Meeting was adjourned at 9:10 P.M. Respectfully submitted by: gill M. Thorp, Clerk ~oard of Trustees RECEIVED AND ~/LED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK ouR Town Clerk, Town of Sou~fold TO: FROM: RE: Town of Southold Edward P. Sharretts, Jr. Who Owns the Underground Water in the Town of Southold The original settlers of the Town of Southold acquired title to the land from the native indians and thereafter those deeds were recognized and confirmed by the King of England through his agents, Andros and Dongan (while the Dongan patent is not available, it is presumed that it is the same as can be found in the patents granted by Dongan to Southampton, East Hampton, Brookhaven et al). The King, under the laws of discovery, had the absolute right to grant to the settlers as patentees for and in behalf of themselves and their associates, the freeholders and inhabitants of the Town of Southold, erected and made one body corporate and politic called by the name of the Trustees of the Freeholders and Commonalty of the Town of Southold. These patents were clearly contracts between the King and his subjects, wherein grants were bought and paid for by the patentees. As such, these grants and rights cannot be usurped or preempt_ed by the State by the enactment of the ECL in 1979, nor by prior legislation under the Conservation Laws. These rights are eontractuai and protected by the Constitution of' the United States as welt as the Constitution of the State of New York. If we can consider that the patents are valid, what did they specifically, grant to the patentees that can now be the property of the Town of Southold? The grants were and are as follows: "...Ail the afore mentioned Tract of Land, with the Necks and Islands Witlh~n the said Bounds sett forth and described as aforesaid, Together with ail the Rivers, Lakes, Waters, Quarrys, Timber, Woods, Wood Land, Plaines Meadows, broken pieces of Meadowes Pastures, Marshes, ffishing, Hawking Hunting and ffowling, and all other Proffitts Commodities, Emoluments and Hereditaments, to the said Towne,..." (From the Andros Patent, November 1, 1676); and further "...all the afore recited tracts and necks of land within the bounds and limits aforesaid together with all and singular the houses MESSUAGES Tenemants buildings millnes millnedames fencings inclosures gardens orchards fields pastures woods underwoods trees timber Comon of pasture feedings meadowes marshes swamps plaines Rivers Rivolets Waters lakes ponds brooks streames beaches Quarris mines minerals Creeks harbours highways and easements fishing haw~king hunting and fowling (silver and gold mines Excepted) and all other franchizes profitts Comodityes and hereditaments whatsoever..."* It is noted that the grants pertain to matter under the ground (minerals, mines, water) as well as matter over the ground. The common law of England at Ihat time declared that underground waters were the property of the sovereign until withdrawn by the land owner. Today, the sovereign is the Trustees of the Freeholders and Commonalty of the Town of Southold and thus has title to the underground waters found in the Town of Southold. (see 12 Ecology 429) (198§). It is obvious that the conservation laws of the State of New York were written without any thought, being given to the patents that were specifically protected by the constitution of the State and 'the United States. These patents gave not only a recognition of the _titles, but also the right to manage and control. The ECL is replete with sections that either through intent or ignorance of the patents have attempted to usurp to the State rights that were granted to the Trustees. We further believe that the ownership and management of the quesiioned waters were purchased and uniformly confirmed by every source from which ratification could come to us; and thus were vested not subject to divestiture, recall or revocation. Edward P. Sharretts, Jr. *Dongan Patent, 1686 TO: FROM: RE: Town of Southold Edward P. Sharretts, Jr. Who Owns the Underground Water in the Town of Southold The original settlers of the Town of Southold acquired title to the land from the native indians and thereafter those de~eds were recognized and confirmed by the King of England through his agents, Andros and Dongan (while the Dongan patent is not available, it is presumed that it is the same as can be found in the patents granted by Dongan to Southampton, East Hampton, Brookhaven et al). The King, under the laws of cliseovery, had the absolute right to grant to the settlers as patentees for and in behalf of themselves and their associates, the freeholders and inhabitants of the Town of Southold, erected and made one body corporate and politic called by the name of the Trustees of the Freeholders and Commonalty of the Town of Southold. These patents were clearly contracts between the King and his subjects, wherein grants were bought and paid for by the patentees. As such, these grants and rights cannot be usurped or preempt~ed by the State by the enactment of the ECL in 1972 nor by prior legislation under the Conservation Laws. These rights are contractual and protected by the Constitution of' the United States as well as the Constitution of the State of New York. If we can consider that the patents are valid, what did they specifically grant to the patentees that can now be the property of the Town of Southold? The grants were and are as follows: "...Ail the afore mentioned Tract of Land, with the Necks and Islands within the said Bounds sett forth and described as aforesaid, Together with all the Rivers, Lakes, Waters, Quarrys, Timber, Woods, Wood Land, Plaines Meadows, broken pieces of Meadowes Pastures, Marshes, ffishing, Hawking Hunting and ffowling, and all other Proffitts Commodities, Emoluments and Hereditaments, to the said Towne,..." (From the Andros Patent, November 1, 1676); and further "...all the afore recited tracts and necks of land within the bounds and limits aforesaid together with all and singular the houses MESSUAGES Tenemants buildings millnes millnedames fencings inclosures gardens orchards fields pastures woods underwoods trees timber Comon of pasture feedings meadowes marshes swamps plaines Rivers Rivolets Waters lakes ponds brooks streames beaches Quarris mines minerals Creeks harbours highways and easements fishing haw. king hunting and fowling (silver and gold mines Excepted) and all other franchizes profitts Comodityes and hereditaments whatsoever..."*. It is noted that the grants pertain to matter under the ground (minerals, mines, water) as well as matter over the ground. The common law of England at that time declared that underground waters were the property of the sovereign until withdrawn by the land owner. Today, the sovereign is the Trustees of the Freeholders and Commonalty of the Town of Southold and thus has title to the underground waters found in the Town of Southold. (see 12 Ecology 429) (1985). It is obvious that the conservation laws of the State of New York were written without any thought being given to the patents that were specifically protected by the constitution of the State and the United States. These patents gave not only a recognition of the .titles, but also the right to manage and control. The ECL is replete with sections that either through intent or ignorance of the patents have attempted to usurp to the State rights that were granted to the Trustees. We further believe that the ownership and management of the questioned waters were purchased and uniformly confirmed by every source from which ratification could come to us; and thus were vested not subject to divestiture, recall or revocation. · Edward P. Sh~rretts, Jr. *Dongan Patent, 1686