HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-06/06/1991 TRUSTEES
John M. Bredemeyer, I~, President
Henry P. Smith, Vice President
Albert I. ICmpski, Jr.
John L. Bednoski, Jr.
John B. Tuthill
Telephone (516) 765-1892
Fax (516) 765-1823
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SUPERVISOR
SCOTT L. HARRIS
Town Hail
53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
MINUTES
JUNE 6, 1991
PRESENT WERE:
John M. Bredemeyer, III, President
Henry P. Smith, Vice-President
Albert J. Krupski, Jr., Trustee
John B. Tuthill, Trustee
Jill M. Thorp, Clerk
ABSENT:
John L. Bednoski, Jr., Trustee
WORKSESSION: 6:00 pm
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGI3~CE
NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Thursday, July II, 199I at 7 pm
Worksession at 6pm
NEXT TRUSTEE FIELD INSPECTION: Thursday, June 27, 1991 at 8 am
Board to approve the minutes of March 7, 1991.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE
BREDEMEYER to approve minutes.
I. MONTHLY REPORT:
Trustees monthly report for April 1991: A check for
$7,466.06 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the
General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin
Board for review.
III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES:
1. Michel & Associates on behalf of CHARLES KYRIAKOUDES
request a waiver to construct a deck, pool and timber wall.
Applicant also request waiver to remove concrete rubble.
L6cated on Kimberly Lane, Southold.
'PRESF/qT WERE:
MINUTES
JUNE 6, 1991
John M. Bredemeyer, III, President
Henry P. Smith, Vice-President
Albert J. Krupski, Jr., Trustee
John B. Tuthill, Trustee
Jill M. Thorp, Clerk
ABSENT:
WORKSESSION: 6:00 pm
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT TRUSTEE BO~2RD MEETING:
John L. Bednoski, Jr., Trustee
Thursday, July 11, 1991 at 7 pm
Worksession at 6pm
NEXT TRUSTEE FIELD INSPECTION: Thursday, June 27, 1991 at 8 am
Board to approve the minutes of March 7, 1991.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE
BREDEMEYER to approve minutes.
I. MONTHLY REPORT:
Trustees monthly report for April 1991: A check for
$7,466.06 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the
General Fund.
II~ PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin
Board for review°
III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES:
1. Michel & Associates on behalf of CHARLES KYRIAKOUDES
request a waiver to construct a deck, pool and timber wall.
Applicant also request waiver to remove concrete rubble.
Located on Kimberly Lane, Southoldo
Board of Trustees 2 June 6, 1991
A motion was made by TRUSTEE TUTHILL and seconded by TRUSTEE
SMITH to grant waiver to construct deck, pool, timber wall and
to remove concrete rubble and waive 25' of jurisdiction. ALL
AYES.
2. Ernest Richter on behalf of Monique Morris request a
waiver to construct a deck onto existing house located at Shore
Drive, Greenport.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
TUTHILL to grant waiver and request that drywells be installed
and that lawn areas be installed without a high fertilizer
requirement. ALL AYES.
3. Karen Oxholm on behalf of DANIEL POLLOCK request waiver
to renovate house as shown on survey dated April 29, 1991.
Located at Ruch Lane, Southold.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to grant waiver only for the jurisdiction between 75'
and 50' = 25' so there is no de-vegetation of the existing lawn
area within 50' of the creek. ALL AYES.
4. Karen Oxholm on behalf of ALBERT SCHWARTZ request a
waiver to renovate house as shown on survey dated May 20, 1991.
Located at Mill Creek Drive, West at Arshamomoque Pond,
Southold.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
TUTHILL to grant waiver with the request that the entire
renovation include leaders and drlrwetls because of the slopes of
the property° ALL AYES.
5. LEANDER GLOVER request waiver to plant rye grass and
other shrubs on property located on Skunk Lane, Cutchogue.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to grant waiver to add 7 yards of top soil and plant
shrubs. ALL AYES.
6. Land Use Co. on behalf of COREY CREEK ASSOCIATION
submitted revised plans to construct docks. Board to review and
accept revision.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE
BREDEMEYER to table any action in order to answer some questions
regarding map. (Question's on Float, moving dock out, space for
existing permits, catch basin). ALL AYES.
7. Albert Fickeissen on behalf of LUCY MICHAELS request an
amendment to permit ~209 to replace a se5 of stairs leading from
the bulkhead as per survey dated as received May 31, 1991.
Applicant also seeks a waiver to enclose an existing outside
shower and add a small changing area to the house as per survey
dated and received May 31, 1991. Property located at 3570
Minniehaha Blvd., Southold.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
SMITH to grant amendment to permit %209 to replace stairs and to
grant waiver to enclose existing outside shower. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 3 June 6, 1991
8. JOSEPH SPITALIERE request an amendment to permit 9 631 to
relocate dock as shown on survey dated June 2, 1991 located at
Orchard Lane, Southold.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE
BREDEMEYER to table request until further review can be done.
ALL AYES.
9. (off agenda item) CHARLES KREPP request waiver to
construct a deck.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
TUTHILL to grant waiver with a request for drywells. ALL AYES.
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
TUTHILL to go off regular agenda and go to p'~blic hearings.
AYES.
ALL
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE
SUFFOLK TI~ES AND AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM T~E LONG
ISLAND TRAVELER-WATC~AN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF:
FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS, IF POSSIBLE
7:21 P.M. - In the matter of GULL POND experiment in marking
Pond to accommodate 28 boats. Is there any one here who wishes
to speak on behalf of the program? Or against?
HERBERT MANDELL: My name is Herbert Mandell I am a property
owner on Gull Pond. I am speaking for myself not for any
group. I have lived on Gull Pond now for about 14 years which
is a relatively short time compared to many of my neighbors, who
have been there for 30 years or more. Gull Pond originally was a
little swimming hole. It had no access to the bay and there
where very few properties built on it. When Koenberg
transferred the property to the Town for the beach and the
inlet, they made certain agreements at the time, Amongst them
was the fact that the pond wouldn't be used commercially, except
for the launching platform that was created for boats and for
the beach. The people who purchased homes on the pond spent
oodles of money to develope their properties and at the present
time it is one of the prettiest ponds in the Country. Not only
in Southold, but any where in the Country. The assessed
valuation that has come about as a result of the improvements
that these people have made to their properties and the fact
that it is on a pond that was created through Koenberg's
generosity and agreements with the Town. The cost to these
people over a period of years has developed to such a point that
many of the properties are paying like $7,000.00 a year in real
estate taxes. Now these people came in and got moorings. The
moorings for the use of the water was one of basis that they
Board of Trustees 4 June 6, 1991
came in to buy the property. They kept these mooring for many
purposes. Many took them so that they can put their boats out
in a serious storm and they wouldn't take a chance at the
bulkhead. When John Geideman, at that time was Town Engineer,
engineered the layout in the pond for moorings, he provided a
canal. So ~hat people who lived on Fordham Canal or on Da~n
Canal could also get through with their boats without having to
zig-zag aro]nd others. The present experiment, I notice you
use the wore[ experiment in this agenda, took away the entire
basis for b~ats to travel. The tentative moorings are put all
over the pl~Lce. So far as their actual use, there have been no
standards d~vetoped to show they shall be used. Now in the
development of Gull Pond the Town of Southotd agreed to maintain
the park th~[t was created as a result, it is Klipp Marine
Park. They agreed to maintain the beach. The bulkhead was
created as non-mooring bulkhead and size was established that
you couldn' moor on the bulkhead that contained the park. The
Town and it~ agreement to maintain put in a fence so that at 9
o'clock at night or whatever hour was selected at that time, it
was nine thgy would close the gate. The park was not being used.
TRUSTEE BRE~EMEYER: Mr. Mandel, I am sorry I am going to have
to interrupt. Can you try to keep your comments strictly
related to ~ur mooring experiment. If it is an experiment that
is destine to fail, that is fine. I don't think we are going to
have time here to go into a history of lets say upland land uses
and regulation in the Norman E. Klipp Park. This Board just
does not have any jurisdiction on the upland area. If we could
just confine ourselves and everyone else who does speak, it
would probably would be interesting because a number of us are
not familiar with it. What I would think would be interesting
for the Tru~tee's to note at further length is that you~
indicated that this was a pond and did not have a connection to
the bay.
MR. MANDELL
TRUSTEE BR[]
MR. MANDELL
TRUSTEE BRE]
to the Town
MR. MANDELL
and the Tow]
mooring and
means in ge~
Park provi~
That is correct.
)EMEYER: There was clear title held in ....
K0enber~
)EMEYER: Who then transferred title to the under land
That is correct. The point in so far as the Park
~ is concerned is the fact that if one is to have a
can not be a property owner, they have to have a
~ting to that boat. The launching platform at the
~s the means. The question is, how is that going to
be done? IS it going to be at 2 O'clock in the morRing or is it
going to be~closed at 9 O'clock, when it is supposed to be
closed? when it was supposed to been closed, people would ride
through the gates. The gates would have to be rebuilt. That
cost money and the Town wasn t. willing to keep on doing that.
After a period of time they seized putting up the gates. Now
the park ~tself which was created out of thzs whole bUs~ness to
develope the pond, to develope the beach. This is being used by
people at night for all kinds of purposes including
experimenting with automobiles to see how much noise they can
make. If somebody is standing on a hood of a car, can you knock
Board of Trustees 5 June 6, 1991
them off? That is the way the park is being used at night. The
noise that emanates is terrific. If you permit moorings to be
utilized by people who have no interest in the pond, you also
must~ I think, determine exactly how they are going to utilize
them. Are they going to be able to come in at night to utilize
their boats? or during the day? Are they going to be able to
have parties on their boats? Or not? It is a beautiful
community and everybody is interested not in keeping people off
the water, because the beach is all created out of this
project. It isn't that we are keeping people out the water. We
gave a lot of water to hundreds of people who use the beach and
the launching platform. So, people are not prohibited from
using it. The cohobation should be in connection with moorings
on property, where the entire circumference on the water is
privately owned and privately maintained. If a fellow had a
mooring there for fifteen years an~ you say to him now, if your
not keeping you boat there you can't have that mooring. I
should think having a mooring for fifteen years has certain
rights to that property and to the mooring. There are many
other things. I realize you are limited in time and I will try
to set them down on a piece of paper and get them in the mail to
you. It is a very important thing to me and many other people.
I think the Cleaves Point Property Owners Association, Gull Pond
Yacht Club and so on comprise of enough people that it merits
your very serious consideration before you entertain this so
called experiment~ Thank you.
DR. GERMINSKY: My name is Dr. Germinsky. I am on the pond
for the past nineteeh years. The way these moorings that we
have now are set up, I go through an obstacle course every time
I go through the inlet.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Are you talking about the existing? There
is an existing...excuse me, if I may interrupt. This plan we
have now clearly we new that coming into tonight's hearing did
not provide for navigation. The previous plan which had been
worked up in association with members of one of the other
associations has a similar layout. We marched into this new
experiment with Mr. Garbe and Mr. Frie working With John
Tuthilt pretty much on a old plan which had a problem with
navigation. We are well aware of it. It was brought to our
attention by Larry Tuthill the last time we met. I know
personally of what you speak, because I had to try to navigate
the creek last year.
DR. GERMINSKY: Just so you are aware of...
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We are very aware of the need for
navigation. This has apparently been lost through the years.
DR. GEP~INSKY: Then there is no reason to discuss the plan if
you are ~oing to change it. I run a obstacle course every time
I bring my boat through there.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The reason we continue to have the meeting
is that Mr. Tuthill apparently wanted to make sure we change
it. We assured him that certainly navigation will be changed no
matter what happened. We had discussed at last months meeting.
MR. BRAIDER: My name is John Braider. I am a property owner on
the pond and I am opposed to the mooring plan, primarily because
· Board of Trustees 6 June 6, 1991
I think it was done in haste. Certainly you have agreed to the
navigation problem. I don't no whether or not an ecology
problem has been studied. I don~t no whether a water quality
study has been made and I don't no whether a safety study has
been made. The previsions as I understand for the mooring could
accommodate boats to 35' in length, which would present problems
in itself. The reason that the mooring system works as it is,
is because it is not to restrictive to navigation. It certainly
doesn't have boats on it twenty four hours a day 7 days a week.
The reason I say that there has been haste here, is because to
date you have laid out something in the neighborhood of twenty
markers in addition to 21 or 27 moorings that where there. Now
we have 55 obstacles in our way every time we try traverse the
creek. If this had been done orderly and all the studies done
prior to this, I think the disturbance of the pond would have
been much less rather then the way it was done. I don't know
what we are going to do with those markers. They have already
been moved by anchored boats that have dragged anchor and have
moved some of the markers. At least one of the markers into a
different position which negates the value of the ~..
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Maybe I might at this point, just a point of
information, to let you all kn~w that the Board wasn't obliged
to conduct public hearings in the matter and it contains
sufficient authority under Town Code already to manage and just
place the moorings. It wasn't our intention to do that and I
think it is fair for just for a point of clarification that Mr.
Frie and Mr. Garbe and Mr. Tuthill worked on this all
through the Winter. It had been our hope th~t~it, would conclude
quickly and the addition of the small floats which did time and
effort on the part of the highway department was in hopes of
laying this out quickly. The reason for the hearing is to have
everybody have their say° We just didn't want to march into it
blindly. ~nere was considerable time, there was a very nice
model that was presented byMr. Garbe who took a tremendous
amount of time in researching the layouts and swing ratios. The
appearance is that we are going to let in an additional 28r no,
in fact the file shows a decrease in actual number of mooring
permits for the creek over what was there previously. There is
no...apparently there is a lot of rumor on the street that we
are trying to'make this a commercial creek. We are going to let
anybody in, ~atever. The current Town Code constrains us to
Town residents and ther~ is really an actual decrease in numbers
here already. I think if we work through this, it may be to
everyone advantage.
MR. BRAIDER: We were privy to those efforts on Mr. Garbe's
part. I am also the Vice~commedor of the Gull Pond Yacht Club.
We worked hand and glove with Mr. Garbe to try to determine
the best possible mooring. Not necessarily the best~possible
mooring arrangement, The Pond in area can accommodate 28
moorings. Once you put 28 boats on there with the possibility
of 357, presents a very different situation. The area yes,
mathematically. If the wind is blowing exactly in the same
direction and the current it moving in the same direction, all
28 boats will sit exactly in the same way and you won't have a
Board of Trustees 7 June 6, 1991
problem. Gull Pond is a unique situation in the sense that it
is surrounded by trees, homes. The pond itself has a unique
shape. It creates different winds. I sail it all the time. We
go from one end of the pond to the other. The wind blows in one
direction and then another. Dr. Germansky can prove that that
happens because I have been in front of his boat unintentionally
several times and run the risk of being run over because of the
wind. We know what the pond can do and we know what the pond
will do in reference to the lay of boats. Moorings are one
thing, boats on moorings are another. Thank you very much.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Anyone else wish to speak?
FRANCIS CONANT: My name is Francis Conant. I am also a
permanent resident on the pond since 1972 and t live just
opposite projected mooring number either 27 or 28 on your map.
I was interested in that you recognized in the earlier case that
we were discussing this evening, the rights of Mr. Alfano in
terms of a prior dock permit and an existing boat. In terms of
somebody else's plans for constricting the area. I consider
those moorings, many of them in particular 26,27 and 28, a
unfair astriction of my right of access and egress from that
bite of Gull Pond. I have a rather old scooner. It has been
there for some 8 years now and before that I had a somewhat more
manageable boat. To get by 26, 27 and 28 in unfavorable winds,
I think that the insurance company's would take a very dim view
of this situation should an accident take place. If the Board
of Trustees are responsible for placing the moorings, I would
think that you would be liable for restricting traffic in that
area as well as elsewhere.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: HOw large is your Scooner, Sir?
FRANCIS CONANT: It is 64'. That bite is i50'.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: And you keep that at a dock?
FRANCIS CONANT: Yes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Tkank you.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Good point, Jay.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That is a very good point. Sir?
GUENTHERSTOTZKY:' My name is Guenther Stotzky. I live
on the Pond. I am a professor of biology at New York
University. I specialize in environmental micro biology. I
would suggest that your experiment lacks a very good control.
Namely the water quality. The pond has not been analyzed by DEC
for at least 5 or 6 years.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Not so. That is not true. At least it
receives concurrent monitoring as all waters do under the
National Shellfish Sanitation Program. That is direct result of
the seasonal closure there. The DEC step UP their monitoring
efforts approximately 2 to 3 years. Are you a boat owner?
GUENTHER STOTZKY: Yes, I am.
TRUSTEES BREDEMEYER: Do you have a mooring in ...?
GUENTHER STOTZKY: No, I have a dock in Gull Pond.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: So you would not have received the mooring
questionnaire that the Board has sent out. I know exactl~where
you are going. The Board is presently surveying every single
mooring in the Town and inquiring as to the methods on board
sanitation. We are trying to stay to bits ahead of the DEC,
.Board of Trustees 8 June 6, 1991
because they are contemplating addition shellfish areas for the
presences of mooring area. Go ahead. It is monitored by the
DEC.
GLqKNTHER STOTZKY: The last I know is that I requested the
DEC to do something was about 5 years ago. At that time I was
told that there where some spots where the coliform counts where
high. The report was never completed because the man left the
position apparently. I have been monitoring the annually.
Unfortunately, I can't do it until the Winter time or late
Fall. I don't, sample until October, November because I don't
have students to do the analysis until that time. I must tell
you that there are some areas where there are a few hot spots.
My concern is really not so much of the nu~er of moorings that
we have now, because as we heard most of those moorings are not
used around the clock, my concern is if that there are moorings
that are used, those 28, primarily with people who don't have
the same vested interest in that pond. We use it for swimming.
We use it for fishing. We use it for shellfishing. If we have
people that are not vested as it where, they are not going to be
as concerned about pumping stuff overboard~ My suggestion to
you is that you do a baseline water quality study now and then
do it again for the next few years, if you do go through your
experiment to put out 28 moorings. I think this is a very
important ecological consideration, considering the situation we
have throughout the Town with many of the ponds being closed for
shellfishing. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDF~4EYER: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One point I want to make for clarification.
How many moorings are there presently on Gull Pond?
CLERK: I have 30 permits with 4 on the waiting list, however 2
permits have not been renewed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thirty permits have been issued?
CLERK: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just to make everyone realize that we are
proposing a net decrease in the number of moorings in the pond.
We don't propose to increase it.
LADY FROM AUDIENCE: How many?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 30.
MAN FROM AUDIENCE: But they never have been there.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Someone is paying for them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Someone has applied for it and someone is
paying for it.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: O.K. Your next.
GEORGE STOGISEN: F-~f name is George Stogisen. I am a
property owner and a boat owner on Fordhum Canal. I would
just like to add to comments of Dr. Germansky. Presently
moorings that are there, not the ones that are paid, the ones
that are in the water. I have a 45' Catch and feel like I am
going through a mine field anytime I go through there,
especially at night.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Sir?
HELMUT SPITZENBERGER: My name is Spitzenberger. I am a
property owner on Fordhum Canal. I request that you at
least put back a channel so we are able to get in and out as was
.Board of Trustees 9 June 6~ 1991
previously. The new plan submitted here has absolutely no
chann~l~ I is an obstacle course. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: What size boat do you have?
HELMUT SPITZENBERGER: 34.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Yes?
JANET VALADEZ: I have been in Gull Pond a lot of years. As a
child my dad bought property there. I have since taken over the
property and my children where raised there. We have watched it
grow. We have watched it flourish. We have watched.people care
about what is in that pond. People that come in from the out
side, come in and use things. They don~t care for it. I
personally am extremely concerned for myself and my children who
will be there after me about the quality and conditions of a
pond that people that don't live there will live in. Thank you.
GEORGE GARBE: I am George Garbe and I have prepared this
plan that you are looking at. Just to clarify something you
mentioned about 30 moorings. There were not 30 moorings in the
pond when we started. Last year we made a survey of the pond
and there was 21 moorings in place.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We were talking permits.
MR. GARBE: That clouds the situation when you are talking
issuing 30 permits when there are only 21 actual moorings. Also
these moorings where placed in somewhat haphazard manner. A lot
of them where overlapping which allowed a navigational channel.
If all those moorings where occupied, the boats would have been
swinging into the channel. That was our original premise. We
started out with 21 moorings when we laid the first plan out.
TRUSTEE BRF~EMEYER: Thank you Mr. Garbe. Anyone else wish to
speak.
MAN FROM AUDIENCE: Can I ask a question. What was the
motivation for this experiment? Why are they trying to put more
moorings in there?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The motivation is to try to provide for
access for residence who similarly have the same feelings that
you do. This we~them falsie is nice, but it doesn't cut it. We
see people every month and they tell us the same things. There
are people who would like to have boats in this Town and would
like to access the water and feel the same as you. They are
concerned for the water quality. It was our hope to provide for
orderliness and not so much to expand it. We also are rightly
concerned that we have a number of permits in non-use and we
have individuals who are residents of the Town who come to us
regularly on all the creeks and say "Hay~ what is going on? I
can't put my boat in here, You tell me year after year that
there is no place for my boat, yet I see all kinds of room on
the creeks"
MRS. VALADEZ: There are marinas.
TRUSTEE BREDESIEYER: Yes, there are marinas~ but there are also
public spaces of which about 30 of you have entitlement to. We
have a public interest in mind and we have to look at every
single person in the Town who makes areasonable request. To do
such things, does require an orderly flow. I think the Board
has limited resources and when a gentlemen like Mr. Garbe
comes in and is willing to offer a lot his time and effort and
Board of Trustees 10 June 6, 1991
when he lives in the immediate area and puts himself forward as
someone who wants to work with us, we are incline to try and do
something for him and people like him. That is how we got
started°
MAN FROM AUDIENCE: Do you have a large waiting list for moorings?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: We have five at the present time.
MR. STOTZKY: Mr. Chairman, there is one thing again let me
underline what Mr. Mandell said at the beginning? Remember
the people who live adjacent to the pond pay a very high tax
rate with essentially no return. Cleaves Point gets absolutely
nothing from the Town in terms of road repair, road clearance,
snow removal, what have you. This I think needs to be
considered when you talk about other people in Town. I am not
talking about...I think this is a very real consideration. I
live. probably 500' from the pond. I have a dock there. The
noise is incredible. I think that is an important consideration.
Mr. Mandell lives much closer. I li~e to the east of the
pond. The noise in continual until t, 2 o'clock in the
morning. So I think this question of access...
TRUSTEE BREDESPEYER: You and Mr. Mandell have made a very
strong point that your vested interest, which was very pertinent
too. You do have a very strong vestment in your life and style
and what you have there and I think it was not lost on the Board
at all. Yes, Mr. Mandell.
MR. MANDELL: I would like to point out that this conversation
is really about standards. The standards should be set up. For
example, the say a 35' boat, maybe that is the standard. It
could be 35' long. I don't know how wide. Would a barge be
suitable for example if it was 30'. Or could the owner of that
boat as many boat people do who would moore along side of him
who would have a 60'? You have to have standards set up so as
to prevent this type of thing to going and making the good that
you want to do, not good. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Sir. I think we will try to conclude this.
MAN FROM AUDIENCE: Just a quick question. There appears to be
a rumor or perkaps a feeling that with these moorings, that if
you don't use them you loose them. You made an interesting
point just a few moments ago, talking about vested rights. When
someone has had a mooring permit for many years and now suddenly
they are faced with a situation of a storm didn't come up this
year and didn't use it. Next year your not going to get it.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Not entirely. Not necesSarily in those
lines and a short time. The Town code specifically prohibits by
law, the monopolization of Town bottom and Town facilities. You
have to understand that the right of access that everyone enjoys
here as boat owners is to a public park or public domain. Where
the law specifically prevents monopolization and if you
monopolize bottom with tackle to the determent of others that
who are prepared to make use, we are, I believe that the
Trustees are remiss in there mission to the general good of the
Town with controls and standards. The code is very specific~
Monopolization of creek bottom is not permitted. Mr. Braider?
MR. BRAIDER: Two really quick points. We have a couple here
that have a mooring on Gull Pond. They have a ver~ lovely Cat
Board of Trustees 11 June 6, 1991
boat. I enjoy very much looking from my property over their
boat and watching them enjoy the Pond and the mooring. They
respect it. We are not trying to keep anybody out of the Pond.
That is not our purpose. I don't think anybody here is saying
that. The other consideration is that your increasing the boat
use by 1/2 to 2/3 as much. The number of boats that are docks
in the pond now runs about 50, that is plus or minus. If you
where to get by what your just describing as being not using the
moorings, 28 additional usages. You are going to have that much
more boats passing through what is already a horror of an outlet
and inlet. We have a bulkhead that is falling down and sand
that is eroding into current. You have boats there that launch
in that ramp inboard/outboards that go 40 mph drag the sand in
and out of that place all the time. There is a tremendous amount
of usage already to add to it. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I am just going to take two more.
Dr. LESTER SHAPIRO: I am Dr. Lester Shapiro. I have lived
out at Cleaves Point close to 30 years. I have watched the
North Fork evolve during this period and quite interested and
concerned about the dynamic that exists between development and
maintenances of what we love on the North Fork. I think what is
happening here tonight is a reflection of that. The talking
about development. The talking about' the rights that people
have~ At times I think we tend to forget. We are talking about
something that has a beauty of its own. We have a
responsibility to maintain it. I wish the board would consider
this equally as it does with McDonalds.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: There won't be a McDonatds. out there. I
assure you. Anyone else? O.K. Larry you didn't speak on this
issue.
LARRY TUTHILL: I am Larry Tuthill. I don't own property on Gull
Pond. I would like to say if the Board feels ...try's to relate
as the same as the creeks which they have owned historically for
many years. To relate to the same type of property as that,
since it has been given to the Trustees by the Town Board. If
they feel that they have to let everybody of Southold Town and
create the same as that. Would you consider giving it to the
Gull Pond Property Owners Association and let them control the
Pond So you wouldn't feel obligated to let everybody in Southold
Town to have a right to use this property which has been deeded
to them and put it in a different light.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I can tell you right now that I vote against
privatisation. I don't know if anyone else wants to jump in. I
don't think at this point in time.., it would just make a
difficult management situation worse. We will consider all
co~m~tents Larry, but I don't think the Town fathers are going to
want...in this case also if this is private property deeded to
the Town, the Trustees don't have any rights on change of
ownership. That would go back to the Town Board.
LARRY TUTHILL: This would mean it would have to be'done by the
Town Board?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Absolutely. If this started out that it
wasn't Trustee bottom, it would be a Town Board matter. O.K. I
Board of Trustees 12 June 6, 1991
want to thank everyone who SPoke on this. I saw two hands go
up. Do you have new comments? Be very brief, if you would.
LADY FROM AUDIENCE: My name is ... and I have lived on Gull
Pond 29 years. Last s~mmuer we had boats come in from Southold
and from Connecticut and anchor off of our dock. Noisy, radios,
swearing. Threw their garbage in the pond. Paper plates,
plastic cup, bags. I went out with a half bushel basket to
clean up. We also get that from the beach.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Any occurrence such as that, you should try
and get the boat numbers and try and get the bay constable
immediately. There is any number of violations.
LADY FROM AUDIENCE: Well there was one from Southold and one
from Connecticut. I am not paying close to $7,000.00 taxes to
look out on a marina.
TRUSTEE BR~EMEYER: O.K. Thank you. Sir?
GORDON HEINS: My name is Gordon Heins. I don't live on Gull
Pond. My feeling is that who ever is going to make noise or
leave garbage or drag half the sand to or from the beach is
going to do it whether they live on Gull Pond or not. I have a
mooring there. I respect the use of the pond and swim there
myself sometimes.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: O.K. There being no further comment,
...O.K. sir?
MAN FROM AUDIENCE: I am ... I live on Gull Pond Lane~ on Fordham
Canal which is directly connected to Gull Pond. As you know
water front property such as mine is assessed using many
properties. One of which was spoken to me as called as
enhancement of value. It is water front. We except that. As
it is now, it is nice and clean. We use it that way. We can
swim it. The coliform content is low. I.f we open up that pond
to include 28 35~ boats, the worse scenario, you are bound to
get some pollution. Unless someone is going to monitor head
functions of these boats. My question is, if this enhance of
value is degraded because of the boats coming into the pond,
will the Town reduce our taxes because that enhance of value has
been reduced?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Thank you.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I think it is the quality of this Board not to
reduce anybody's value of property. We are trying to work out a
solution where we can most utilize the pond with navigation,
with boat moorings to make everyone here happy. If someone is
presently using a mooring that lives on the pond no way is that
mooring going to be taken away from them. We are just trying to
take a jumbled up thing, all these moorings have been put in
hap hazardley over the years. I have heard from this gentleman
and other gentlemen that they are having trouble navigating
through the pond, that is basically the problem we are trying to
clear up. The navigational problem and the worse scenario that
has been said if everybody puts a boat on there mooring...
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Which could happen tomorrow. What you are
telling us is everybody who has a vested right put it out we
would have a traffic jam and somebody would go what have you
guys been doing.
Board of Trustees 13 June 6, 1991
MR. BRAIDER: That is not true. It is the markers that are
causing...
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: They can come out very quickly. What we
have been told is that apparently everyone seems to think they
are entirely to many possibilities for moorings. You say that
there are only 21 out there. In that case if the people who
hold moorings now went and put boats on, we might be presented
with a very serious problem. I precipitate the very kind of
situation that you are talking about.
AUDIENCE: That is true.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: That is why we are here. We saw a situation
getting worse. We don't want to have everyone go out and buy a
boat now. Yes Mr. Mandell
MR. MANDELL: Southold is blessed with 100 of miles of water
front and there is absolutely now excuse for its people not
being able to use the water. The reason that they can't use the
water is that Southold has failed miserably over the years to
create public marinas~ which they are advised to do many a
time. There is absolutely no excuse for not doing that except
that that would burden the tax rate. Politicly that feel that
they can't increase the tax rate so we can't have a public
marina. This causes all kinds of the problems with the people
that are individually paying the cost. There is no reason why
we shouldn't have a public marina open to the public.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I agree. Southold Town is one of the few To~.~s
that does not have a public marina. We are not trying to make a
public marina in Gull Pond. I would say 90% of these moorings
in Gull Pond are going to be owned by people iA Gull Pond. I
here everybody say I pay $7,000.00, $8,000.00, I pay $9,000.00
taxes. I live on the water and I have moorings in front of my
house too.
LADY FROM AUDIENCE: How many do you have.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I never counted them up. I live on Town Creek in
Southold. Luckily we didn't get a problem like you have in Gull
Pond° We have a County channel that came in and that channel is
kept open. We have for and aft moorings on both sides. In Gull
Pond they have been getting put in year after year just about
where anybody wanted to. There is a navigational hazard in Gull
Pond.
AUDIENCE: That is not true.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Yes it is. You try to navigate back there where
Mr. Germansky lives or you go into the other lagoon, you have
an optical co~rse to run to get back there.
MR. BRAIDER: T~zose moorings are owned by the people here
primarily down at the end cf the pond. They put in Winter sticks
to mark their moorings. They don't pull those moorings up ....
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We are not saying that. We are just trying to
create water so that Channel will always be kept open. we are
not saying to open it up to additional 28 people. Looking at
this plan you see that there are two proposed moorings in the
middle of the channel. Those of course will not be put there.
They will probably be eliminated, so therefore you would be down
to 26 proposed moorings. That presents a problem. Because Mr.
Garbe's said that there are 21 presently being used. The Town
· Board of Trustees 14 June 6, 1991
has issued 30 permits. If we only have 26 places on the map for
moorings, what do we do with those people that we have issued
permits too. We are not talking about people in. We are almost
talking about excluding people. Do you see which way we are
going, we are not going to filling it up. We are trying to
organize it and make it orderly. We are not trying to fill it
up with outsiders for you. Those people that have moorings
there will still have moorings. We are not trying to eliminate
any moorings.
PERSON: If we took now and we all put our boats on these
moorings that do exist. Forget about the plan, the ones that
are in the bottom now. If everyone of those took the boat that
is registered to it, you would have a problem right now.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That is what we are trying to deal with right
now.
PERSON: The fact that we don't keep them on the mooring, we keep
them on the dock. We have the mooring there in the event of a
storm. It is a safe guard, but you are telling us that we are
going to loose that mooring because we are not using it. The
only option is to go back out and get on that mooring, you are
going to create a right.
TRUSTEE SMITH: What is going to happen in a storm if everyone
runs out there and gets on there mooring?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That is the problem.
Everyone taking at once.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: O.K. I want to thank everyone for coming
this evening. I think that concludes it. I will tell that the
Board may have to issue Some interim guidelines and pull out the
floats after discussing this. Thank you.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The next application that was scheduled for
7:20 pm is in the matter of Glenn Just on behalf of LEONARD
LANG to install two 6' X 20' floats and a 3' X 12' ramp at an
exiSting docking facility. Located at Budd's Pond, Southold.
It is now 8:13. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on
behalf of this application? Is there anyone here who wishes to
speak against this application? Any comments from Trustees?
Hearing no coLmL~ents I will take a motion to close hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Seconded. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I will make a motion to approve this application.
TRUSTEE TUTHILL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Next hearing scheduled is in the matter of
the application of En-Consultants on behalf of RENATO
STARCIC to construct a 4' X 82' fixed elevated pier. Install
3 mooring pilings as per survey dated April 18, 1991. Located
off Oaklawn Avenue, Southold. Is there anyone here who wishes
to speak for this application?
ROY HAJE: For the applicant Roy Haje, En-Consultants and Mr.
Starcic is also present.
TRUSTEE SMITH: We made a recommendation one time to move and
then we moved it back.
ROY HAJE: I don't know if we moved it back.
· Board of Trustees 15 June 6, 1991
TRUSTEE SMITH: There was something about that he was going to go
over someone else's property line. It was not going to exceed
the neighbors dock and the bridge abutment.
ROY HAJE: Yes. You had originally suggested...
TRUSTEE B~RDEMEYER: Yes. We accepted your amendment.
TRUSTEE SMITH:~ O.K. I have no problem with it.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Anyone who wishes to speak against this
application? Any other comments? I'll take a motion to close
the hearing in the matter of Eh-COnsultants for Renato
Starcic.
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion that we approve this application
as so amended.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Next hearing in the matter of the
application of Glenn Just on behalf of ROBERT GOTTLIEB request
to construct 6' X 8' ramp leading to a 6' X 80' fixed dock. 6'
X 8' ramp shall be constructed l~ndward of 5EqWwith fixed dock
constructed 4' over grade. Located on Robinson Road, Southold.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this
application? Is there anyone here who wishes to speak against
this application? Trustees?
TRUSTEE SMITH: I had a conversation with the President of the
Paradise Point Assoc. who couldn't be here tonight. They
really don't have a problem with it but they are concerned that
there are going to be boats buzzing between this thing and a
fish trap that is there presently. Is there any reason why this
has to go out so far, Glenn?
AN~ELO STEPNOSKI: I am going to build it. It is not going to
extend any further then the jetty coming out of Paradise Point
shores. It is goinq to be exactly in line with that jetty. It
is basically so his kids have a safe place to swim. I went
t?ne~e with mybarge and measure it off with Mr. Gottlieb this
Winter, with a tape measure. It doesn't extend beyond the jetty.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Do we have a survey showing the jetty and the
dock.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't think so.
GLENN JUST: The jetties aren't shown.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: The CAC had recommendations against this
project even though it is a type II action.
BRUCE LOUCKA: we hada question on Turn nesting.
GLENN JUST: I check with Mike Gieger at the DEC. He says
that.. I few years ago I did a permit to put a dock over the
pond. ~d that Osprey nest has been abandon at that time and the
turns have moved down to the end.
BRUCE LOUCKA: when we where down there we didn't know if they
were nesting or not. That was our concern.
TRUSTEE BREDEb~fER: That was one concern and the other was that
the project does not block public access to the beach. I don't
think the Trustee perceive a block of access. There is no
apparent public access there.
Board of Trustees 16 June 6, 1991
TRUSTEE SMITH: Well that was the only concern they had with the
dock and the fish trap. With boats speeding in there. But if
boats speed in there they are braking the law anyway.
TRUSTEE BREDE~EYER: Are there any further comments. Hearing
none, I will take a motion to close the hearing in this matter.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So moved.
TRUSTEE TUTHILL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion that we approve the application
of Robert Gottlieb.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Next hearing in the matter of Glenn Just on
behalf of JOSEPH SPITALIERE to inst~ll 6' wide gravel walkway,
construct a 4' X 299' timber catwalk which shall be constructed
4' over grade of wetlands; to install a 8' X 12' swim platform
which shall be secured by an anchored mooring. No disturbance
will be made to the existing collapsed drain line. Located
Robinson Road~ Southold. For the record I believe the swim
platform was beyond the Trustees jurisdiction, so the vote
wouldn't really pertain to that. Is there anyone here who
wishes to speak on behalf of this application? Anyone who
wishes to speak against this application?
BRUCE LOUCKA: CAC sent you comments.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I was talking to John Sinning, President of the
Association. ge really doesn't see a need for this catwalk
across this pond. Mr. Spitaliere is not going to live there.
The property is just for speculation. He feels the property is
just going to be made more valuable with the catwalk. There is
a right-of-way to get done to the beacht so it is not needed.
Before With Gottlieb they didn't have clear title to this
riqht-of-way, but now they doo It shows no reason to have this
4 X 299 t!mber catwalk across that pond such as Gottlleb has.
TRUSTEE iBREDEMEYER: O.K. Could you ~o back one step. Gottlieb
has it because they didn't have access.
TRUSTEE S~ITH: They didn't have clear title for access to the
right-of-way. I told Mr. Sinning to write a letter to this
Board stating that. I don't know if he did or not. Did he Jill?
JILL THORP: I have not received it.
TRUSTEE BREDE~EYER: Additionally for the record, the CAC had
concerns: Is it a Turn nesting area, the purpose of the drain.
We had eliminated that. We had request that no alteration be
made. There is an Osprey nest in the location of the catwalk.
Will the applicant be willing to relocate the nest and where?
Is that the one that it was a bit to the east?
BRUCE LOUCKA: Well, to the Gottlieb~s walk it is to the east.
This one it goes within ten foot of it. It was active when I
was done there.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER O.K. And you had a concern where the floater
would be stored in the Winter. Was there a concern that it
might be pulled up on wetlands?
BRUCE LOUCKA: Yes.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I don't think that is a big concern, becauSe that
pull boats up on them and they are still good. Isn't there
~Board of Trustees 17 June 6, 1991
something in the ordinance that this stuff had to be taken off
by a certain time in the Spring?
TRUSTEE Ki{UPSKI: Right.
GLENN JUST: We can work around the nest. No construction
activities.
TRUSTEE Ki{UPSKI: He is talking about activity around the nest,
normal everyday use.
JOE SPITELIERE: That Osprey next now is right between the
right-of-way and where the walk would go. There is going to be
an effect on it either way. As far moving it, I'd be happy to
move it. I am not oppose to that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Or better yet, erect another one in a suitable
location. Instead of moving the present one.
BRUCE LOUCKA: That was our concern that there would be a loss.
TRUSTEE BRR~EMEYER: Alright. Are there any other comments?
JOE SPITALIERE: In regards to the letter from the Association
, as far as being speculation property. That was not the intent
of it when i purchased it. Due the lengthy process in getting
the permits and the economy turning and everything as it has
that leaves a very strong possibility now of being sold. I am
not going to try to kid anybody about it. It was originally
Purchased for my own use. If anybody knows me by now, knows I
am trying to work with whatever I can with this. I am not
trying to put the land to bad use. On the right-of-way, it is
there. It was just cut in recently after I purchased the
property. It is a 15' wide right-of-way. It is going to grow
right up again. You are taking risk walking down there even
when after it is cleared. It would be betted_if they can go
down a private walk way.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Does that right-of-way give rights to all
persons in'that subdivision or sections of that subdivision?
JOE SPITALIERE: I don't know if you have to belong to the
Association or not I believe in the deed it titles off the
numbers of the lots. Most of the area, but there are so many
right-of-ways in that area. Everyone lives on the water. No one
really uses it. Other then to maybe lay claim to the fact at
sale.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: O.K. Thank you. Any more comments with
respect to this application? At this time I will take a motion
to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SI~IT~: So moved.
TRUSTEE TUT~ILL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion we deny this application with no
prejudice until such time that there is a house that is built on
this property to show a need for this access. I feel that if it
is just pIain open property that it doesn't show a need for with
the right-of-way being there~ If somebody lives in the house, I
will look at it again. But at this time, no.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I will second the motion. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDESIEY~R: The next hearing is in the matter of the
application of En-Consultants on behalf of PAOLO LAVAGETTO
to construct a timber dock consisting of a 4~ X 130~ fixed
elevated (maximum 3.5' above grade of marsh) walk with ramp up
Board of Trustees 18 June 6~ 1991
landward end; 4' X 14' hinged ramp; (2) 6' X 20' floats secured
by (3) pilings. Located Broadwaters Drive and Mason Drive,
Cutchogue.' Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf
of this application?
ROY HAJE: For the applicant, Roy Haje, Eh-COnsultants. If you
have any questions, I will answer them. I have nothing further
to add.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What is the purpose of the two floats? It
seems like a pretty large float structure for that part of the
Creek there.
ROY HAJE: He now has 25' boat and was thinking of getting a
forty footer and he wanted to have the floats to get to the
depth.
TRUSTEE BREDE~EYER: O.K. The CAC had recommended disapproval
feeling that this project was over sized for the location.
CAC suggest more accurate soundings. The CAC believes that
the soundings would show that if applicant would move the
catwalk as far to the west as poSsible, the applicant would
reach a deeper area faster. CAC suggest that the applicant
shorten the catwalk so that it does not extend further out then
the neighboring docks. Also the walk should be elevated at
least 4' above grade.
ROY HAJE: The sounding where done by somebody hired by the
applicant, so I did not do them myself. I believe that they are
quite accurate.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The only problem I have is the floats. At such
time that he buys a 40' boat or whatever, he can come in and
~mend it if he needs the addition floats for s~tability. If he
doesn't have that right now, I can't see to extend the float
system. He can always amend it without a problem.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Roy, does this go out further then the neighbors
dock on either side?
ROY HAJE: H~nry, when I was there at the dock the docks weren't
out. Are they removable floating docks?
TRUSTEE SMITH: I don't know.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It seems like there is a bulkhead and a fixed
dock to the west. I cantt quite remember. Why don't we get the
aerial photo and look at this?
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Lets not. This is the public hearing. I
think if we have this much concern over the structure and it has
been awhile since we surveyed it, I think it might be wise to
conclude the hearing and maybe table the vote on the matter and
go take a look at it. I there any more comments specifically
with respect to this application for or against? I will take a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE TUTHILL: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion that we re-inspect this next
month.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. - ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Next hearing in the matter of the
application of John Geideman on behalf of MARK MCDUFFEE
request to remove 20' float build a 15' X 7' platform, which the
Board of Trustees 19 June 6, 1991
Trustees have requested applicant to reduce the size of.
Located at Nassau Point road, Cutchogue. Received revised
survey date May 24, 1991: "Remove 20' section of existing fixed
dock construct a 8' X 20' float and 3' X 16' ramp." The platform
has been removed. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on
behalf of this amended application? Is there anyone here Who
wishes to speak against this application? The Board's down
sizing request has been submitted. We could accept as amended
that portion of it when we go into the vote. Hearing no
comments, I will take a motion to close the hearing in this
matter.
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. That is what we asked for. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make a motion to apprQve with amendments.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Next hearing in the matter of the
application of En-Consultants on behalf of IRA GORDON to
construct a one-family dwelling, deck, pool, sanitary system
bluestone or similar pervious driveway. Approximately 750 c.y.
of fill will be trucked in from upland source. Construct a
fixed '~L" dock consisting of 4' X 100' long. Wave Baffles will
be constructed on the outer sections as well as the southerly
40' of main dock section. Two pilings will be placed within the
"L" section. To construct steps within the inter-tidal area to
provide access along the beach as per revised plan dated March
5, 1991. Located at Willis Creek Drive, Mattituck. The Board
had been out and looked at this site several times and there had
been some communications back and forth and an amendment. Is
there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this
application?
ROY HAJE: Roy Haje, En-Consultants of for the applicant.
Unless you have questions, I will let the record speak for
itself.
TRUSTEE BREDE~EYER: Anyone here who wishes to speak against the
application?
BRUCE LOUCKA: Do you have the CAC comments?
TRUSTEE SMITH: Roy is that anywhere near Maratooka Point?
ROY HAJE: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, it is not. It is way out in the Bay.
TRUSTEE SMITH: O.K.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: CAC had comments against this. I will read
the entire comments of the CAC. Motion by Steve Angell
seconded by John Holzapfel was resolved to reco~uend to the
Trustees disapproval of wetland application i23-10-3 Ira Gordon
to construct one-family-dwelling, deck, pool, sanitary system
bluestone or similar pervious driveway. Fix "L't dock consisting
of the aforementioned items we have mentioned, the Council has
concerns with the house and sanitary system 1. horizontal
migrating of household sewage. Fill might cause runoff problems
to adjacent neighbors~ Council also questions the accuracy of
the wetland line and would prefer to see the house and pool move
back 4-5 feet. Pool would have to back wash into a dry well.
Council disapproves the dock projects. Feels that the structure
Board of Trustees 20 June 6, 1991
as submitted would have an adverse effect on the bottom on the
west and can result in the closing of Deep Hole inlet. For the
Trustees part, I don't believe we had a problem with the house
construction. We did look carefully at the fill line when we
where out there. Migrating of sanitary waste is the function of
any property and is subject to Health approval. The Board
coordinated the action the DEC and the Dept. of Health. They
didn't indicate any problem or concern, so we ended up with the
lead agency.
TRUSTEE SMITH: What kind of wave baffles are they going to have?
ROY HAJE: Spacing...inaudible.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Alright.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: I know the Board looked at it with the
entrance of the creek in mind too. I think the Dept. of State
did. i don't think we really had a problem with that.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Do you have a DEC permit?
ROY HAJE: I don't have it yet. I have been told that it has
been approved. It has taken a long time of course, but now they
seem to O.K. it. We have Corp. of Engineer.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: Do you have County Health approval yet on
the house itself?
ROY HAJE: No, because we don't have DEC~
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER: O.K. or Trustee. O.K. Are there any more
comments with respect to this application?
TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion that this hearing be closed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion that we approve this application.
TRUSTEE TUTHI~J.: Second. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER:
Vo ASSESSMENTS/ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATIONS:
1. John Geideman on behalf of CUTCHOGUE/NEW SUFFOLK PARK
DIST. to construct 80' of timber bulkhead with a 15' return.
Located at corner of West Road and Fleets Neck Road, Cutchogueo
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
SMITH to waive fee and accept application for this non-profit
Association.
After discussion with representatives of Park District, a motion
was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI to
grant a negative declaration. ALL AYES.
2. Eh-Consultants on behalf of LEONARD ROSEN request permit
to construct a timber dock consisting of 4' X 24' fixed elevated
(4' above grade of marsh) walk (including inclined landward
section); 4' X 14' hinged ramp; 6' X 20' float secured by 2
pilings. Applicant also request amount of buffer needed for
putting a lawn in the rear of house. Located at 3145 Main
Bayview Road, Southold.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDE~EYER and seconded by TRUSTEE
SMITH to grant a negative declaration subject to affirming that
no structure will be within 5' of the property line. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 21 June 6, 1991
A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER and seconded by TRUSTEE
TUTHILL to re~aire a 50' buffer in connection with the dock
application. ALL AYESi
3. Land Use on behalf of JAMES KLEIN re~est permit to combine
two pre-existing, single and separate residential building
plots in order to expand existing dwelling. Expansion will
include 30' X 40' living area and 10' X 60' deck. A ll0' timber
retaining wall and 20' retaining wall will be back filled with
500 c.y. clean material to match existing grade at road and on
east property line. Deck/dwelling will be located 50' landward
of TWL line. Applicant also proposes to install a vegetative
buffer of native upland shrubs between TWL line and timber
retaining wall. Shrubs to be planted on 6' center and will
include: Bayberry, Beech Plum, Rosa Rugosa. Located East
Legion Road, Mattitucko
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMIT~ and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to grant negative declaration. ALL AYES.
A request will be made to applicant to relocate sanitary system.
4. Costello Marine on behalf of RICHARD FRAKER TO
CONSTRUCT $" X 90' timber dock, 30' X 20' aluminum ramp, 8' X
24' timber float dock, (2) 2-pile dolphins.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE B~DEF~ER and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to grant a negative declaration. ALL AYES~
5. LARRY TUTHILL request to construct 105' retaining wall
along Cutchogue Harbor and along a traveled way to prevent
further erosion and protect upland as per revised plan dated May
12, 1991. Located at New Suffolk.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to grant a negative declaration. ALL AYES.
VI. RESOLUTIONS:
I. Board to set public hearings for the July 11, 1991 regular
meeting for those application that have been granted a negative
declarations.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
SMITH set public hearings. ALL AYES.
2. Land Use on behalf of VILLAGE MARINE request an extension
en permit ~10-88-122 to expire on April 28, 1992. Located at
Bay Avenue, Mattituck.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
SMITH to grant extension. ALL AYES.
3. En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of EDWARD FERGUS request
an extension on permit 93815 to expire on September 28, 1991 as
they are still awaiting DEC Approval. Property located at ROW
North Bayview, Southold. (Fixed dock, ramp, floats).
A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDF2~EYER and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to grant an extension. ALL AYES.
· Board Of Trustees 22 June 6, 1991
4o FRED MELIN request an ice permit to replace 3 piles as
marked on plan. Property located Bay Avenue, Cutchogue.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
BREDEMEYER to approve ice permit. ALL AYES.
5. EDGAR DEBANY request grandfather permit for a bulkhead
located off Sunset Lane, Southold.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER and seconded by TRUSTEE
TUTHILL to grant a grandfather permit. ALL AYES.
VII. MOORINGS:
t. Michael Zahra request mooring in James Creek for a 20'
inboard/outboard with i501b mushroom with aft anchor.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
SMITH subject to the Bay Constable placing it. ALL AYES.
2. Mary & John Peters request mooring in Town Creek for a 28'
Bayliner with 150lb mushroom. Mooring was cancelled last
year due to non payment. They are asking for the same location.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE BREDEMEYER and seconded by TRUSTEE
TUTHILL to approve subject to placing an aft anchor'. ALL AYES.
3. Joseph Hydel request stake/mooring in Goose Creek for a
12' MFG with 6hp.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded byTRUSTEE
TUTHILL to approve. ALL AYES.
4o Rave/Tloczkowski request 1 mooring and 2 offshore/onshore
stakes in Richmond Creek for a 16' Hobie, 14' Sunfish and a
21' Sunrunner. 3001b mushroom. Wants to use mushroom for
whatever boat they use for the day.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTRR
SMITH to approve. ALL AYES.
5. John Malone request mooring in East Creek for a 19'
Cobia with whatever pound mushroom Board requires. Access
over County owned ROW.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to approve with a 501b mushroom. ALL AYES.
6. Gerald Wells request to transfer mooring #617 in Mud Creek
to Don Stewart. Gerald Wells sold house and boat to Don
Stewart. 15' Fiberglass outboard.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to approve transfer. ALL AYES.
7. David Hoffman request mooring for a 18' outboard with a
100Ib mushroom.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE
BREDEMEYER to approve~ ALL AYES.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE SMITH and seconded by TRUSTEE
BREDEMEYEtt that all moorings approved or transferred after June
Board of Trustees 23 June 6, 1991
6~ 1991 by the Town Board of Trustees that are not used for at
least thirty (30) days per year, shall be subject to revocation
by the Board of Trustees pursuant to the provisions of Chapter
32 of the Town Code.
A motion was made by TRUSTEE TUTHILL and seconded by TRUSTEE
KRUPSKI to adjourn meeting.
Respectfully submitted by,
ill M. Thorp, Clerk
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
T~ SOU~HOLD TOWN C~.~,~X
DATE/~7/=9~/~/ HOUR /~-'~,~,~.
~n Clerk, Town of ~thold