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HomeMy WebLinkAboutPB-08/20/2007 KENNETH L. EDWARDS MARTIN H. SIDOR GEORGE D. SOLOMON JOSEPH L. TOWNSEND M~~ ~.~~ ~. ; ~ ~ r.t COUNIi ,~~ MAIliNG ADDRESS: P.O. Box 1179 Southold, NY 11971 PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS JERILYN B. WOODHOUSE Chair OFFICE WCATION: Town Hall Annex 54375 State Route 25 (cor. Main Rd. & Youngs Ave.) Southold, NY Telephone: 631 765-1938 Fax: 631 765-3136 PLANNING BOARD OFFICE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MINUTES Scoping Session August 20,2007 4:30 p.m. Present were: Jerilyn B. Woodhouse, Chairperson Kenneth L. Edwards, Member Martin Sidor, Member George D. Solomon, Member Joseph Townsend, Member Mark Terry, Senior Environmental Planner Amy Thiel, Senior Planner Anthony Trezza, Senior Planner Bruno Semon, Senior Site Plan Reviewer Carol Kalin, Secretary Chairperson Woodhouse: Good evening. Tonight is our scoping meeting. The purpose of this meeting is to receive input from the public, involved agencies, and interested parties with respect to the draft Environmental Impact Statement (ElF) to be prepared for The Heritage at Cutchogue. The Heritage at Cutchogue has a residential site plan application pending before this Board. In review of this proposed action, the Planning Board assumed Lead Agency and classified the project as a Type I action. And, in review, found that the project could result in one or more potential significant environmental impacts. As a result, a Positive Declaration was issued at the Planning Board meeting on July 16, 2007 requiring the preparation of a draft EIS. Scoping is optional, but can be initiated by either a Lead Agency or an applicant. The applicant submitted a draft scope, thus initiating formal scoping. Under the procedures of the State Environmental Quality Review Act (SEQRA), if scoping is conducted, the Lead Agency must provide an opportunity for public input and issue a final scope within 60 days of receipt of the draft scope. The Planning Board circulated the draft scope to involved agencies and known parties of interest and published a notice of the Scoping Meeting in at least one local paper, at least seven days prior to this hearing. We are Southold Town PlanninQ Board PaQe Two AUQust 20. 2007 here this evening to receive input on the scope of the Draft EIS only. Once the final scope is complete, the applicant will prepare a draft EIS. The Draft EIS will be reviewed by this Board, our staff and consultants to determine if it is complete for the purpose of public review. If it is not complete, adequate, or does not conform to the final scope, the reasons will be outlined and the applicant will be directed to revise the document for resubmission. Once a complete Draft EIS is accepted, it will be the subject of a minimum 30-day comment period that will include a public hearing. All subsequent comments on a Draft EIS must be addressed in a Final EIS, which must be completed and circulated for at least ten days before any findings or decisions are issued on a project. You can see that this process will involve a number of opportunities for public input. As a result, this evening we are requesting only comments on what should be studied in the Draft EIS. If you have reviewed the applicant's draft scope, all are welcome to speak this evening on those additional items that you believe should be included in the Draft EIS. Our staff is here tonight to hear the public comments and will be involved throughout the DEIS review process. The draft scope will be revised to reflect all substantive comments. After tonight, we will permit written comments to be received by the Planning Board Office for a period of 15 calendar days, or until the close of business on September 4th. After this, we will ensure that a Final Scope is completed and circulated. The Final Scope will be used by the applicant to prepare the draft EIS. If you wish to speak, you may raise your hand and once you are recognized you may come forward to either of these two microphones, provide your name and address, and tell the Board the specific items you wish to be addressed in the draft EIS that are not in the draft scope. We will make note of your comments, and ensure that they are reflected in the final scope. We would appreciate it if you would confine your remarks to three minutes. Comments on the project itself are not appropriate at this time. So this is not an opportunity for somebody to say "I like this projecUI don't like this project." That is not the subject of this hearing. We are only interested in comments that relate specifically to the draft Environmental Impact Statement. So, thank you for coming here tonight. Is there someone who would like to begin? Benia Schwartz. CutchoQue: Before we begin, I just want to clarify what you just said and make sure I understood it. This draft scope, this is, I put on the top of mine "applicant's draft scope." This was prepared; it says "prepared by Nelson & Pope" public limited liability corporation, actually professional, but it was prepared by the applicant. Chairperson Woodhouse: Correct. Benia Schwartz: OK. And then pursuant to our input today and your... Chairperson Woodhouse: We have already shared our comments about issues that we want to see in the final scope. We have given that information to the applicant. If there Southold Town Plannina Board Paae Three Auaust 20. 2007 are things that we have missed, that we have not included, that the public feels need to be included in the final scope, that's what we would like to hear from you tonight. Benia Schwartz: But we don't know what you've already shared with the applicant, do we? Chairperson Woodhouse: Well, it's a matter of public record; I mean it has been available; it's in the draft scope, which is what you have--the draft scope. Benia Schwartz: The applicant has incorporated that into the draft scope? Which I called today and I was informed I could get it at the meeting tonight. So, I just got that; I haven't had time to review it. Rav Huntinaton. Goose Neck. Cutchoaue: I bring attention to 2.2 in the Draft Scope. My concern is covered, but it's covered lightly, let's say. I am wondering if the Board would consider splitting 2.2 into Water Supply and Waste Water: separate issues. They aren't really separate, but in order to bring further attention to the water issue in general, it might be good to talk about that in terms of waste water and in terms of supply water. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Is there someone else who would like to address the Board? Julie Rapuano. 1140 Crown Land Lane. Cutchoaue: The Heritage at Cutchogue, the proposed 47-acre development, has many, many major concerns. I did read the positive declaration, and I can only ask the Planning Board to please, please, please consider every alternative to keep the Hamlet of Cutchogue safe for all of us who live here as well as the many visitors attracted to our beautiful North Fork. They come for the wineries, for the farm stands, for street fairs and in general the beauty of Cutchogue, the sunniest place on Long Island. Highland, Crown Land, Bridal Lane, a neighborhood of about 60 homes and 50 children, has two outlets to and from our neighborhood, making it very safe for young and old to live. The Heritage proposal to open and connect Spur with Schoolhouse Lane and Griffing poses a danger of significant increase in traffic. Further, a parochial school borders the proposed development. Pedestrian traffic as the school children cross the Main Road daily to use the parish hall will be endangered by the increase in traffic that will result from the Heritage. The tremendous impact that Heritage will have on our town, our resources and our way of life is just too significant. Please, please, please do all that you can to protect our hamlet from this sizeable development. Once we give up the little we have left, we cannot give it back. And I thank you for your time. I have copies if I could give them. Dave Groenweld. 710 Harbor Lane. Cutchoaue: You didn't make enough papers. Southold Town Plannina Board Paae Four Auaust 20. 2007 Chairperson Woodhouse: How many people do not have a copy? We will continue with those people who have papers in front of them and we will make more copies for you. Nancv Sawastvnowicz: Born in Greenport Hospital, raised in Cutchogue. This current application, the Heritage, to develop this property is not the first time a development plan was proposed for this location. I was here a quarter of a century ago when I formed a group of residents and we called ourselves "SOS." We oppose the development of Cutchogue Hamlet. Now I am here again for it is important that we go into some of the history behind this 47 acres. This property has caused hardship for our town since 1974. The first application was made in 1974 requesting 226 units known as Leisure Grains Inc. It was planned as a retirement community. The minimum age would be restricted to residents 55 or older with no children of school age. The South old Town Planning Board in its great wisdom disapproved it, and disapproved the requested change of zone. The Planning Board presented their master plan that there would be no multiple residences between Mattituck and Southold. Then the next application for the same change of zone, a residential and agricultural district to MI, was brought up on February 1, 1983, and it was called Sea Croft. Richard Kron, attorney for the project and developer, along with Joseph Nolan of New Suffolk and Bill Carroll of Cutchogue also proposed a senior citizen type of retirement community. But not 226 units: he planned 160 units. Once again the Planning Board reviewed the application and came up with the same language in recommending the disapproval decision. But the Town Board gave the zone change July 19,1983. Before the change of zone was adopted, I was alarmed when I read in the paper Sea Croft was widely favored in Cutchogue. I attended my first Town Board meeting. After the hearings and the agenda was finished, I attempted to speak to the Board. I had collected 500 signatures on a petition and wanted to let the Board know the project was strongly opposed by the residents. Before I got out one sentence, I was rudely stopped and asked not to speak. The Town Board went into executive session and did not allow me the right to speak in public; it was totally against the law. When they came out, they told me I missed the hearing and was not allowed to speak about it. The hearing had not been closed; the zone hadn't changed until July 19,1983. The petition grew in number, somewhere around 900 signed it, and the Town sent it back to me. Next, I hired an attorney for our group. Sea Croft Developers would not prepare a draft environmental impact statement and took our town to the Supreme Court challenging the Town Planning Board's denial on the site plan approval. This was February 1985. The Planning Board won. Then, on April 19, 1984, at a pre-submission conference, all changed. The retirement community minimum age changed from 45 to 50. Mr. Cron added that at first the age was set at 55; however, he decided to change the age and lower it to 45. The zone change was granted on the fact of it being a retirement community. The whole thing I am trying to point out here is that when this property zone was changed, it was railroaded through by this developer. Anyway, I looked at the assessment form given for the zone change. It was so erroneous; every question on it says "no." Even No. 15: Southold Town Planninq Board Paqe Five Auqust 20. 2007 "Is there public controversy concerning this project?" There has been a lot of controversy over this project. The point I would like to make is: the change of zone was railroaded through so many years ago, and not really concerning of all the many impacts it will do to our town. This is only one of the first large-scale proposals for our town of Cutchogue. The town didn't want it 30 years ago, and they don't want it now. We only need to drive through Cutchogue at 5 p.m. any day of the week. That's our traffic study. We can't handle any more. And even site plan work does not vest on an interest in zoning. Zoning can be changed at any time, at least until building construction has begun. Therefore, I implore you: please recommend the alternative rezoning to open space on this land. Thank you. Thomas Hall: 2985 Highland Road. I am looking at your document here, under "Human Resources Transportation." It would be, I guess, in the middle of Page 2. I don't understand why Highland Road on Route 25 is not included here, and Crown Land. My recommendation is to add those intersections. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you very much. Thomas Hall: Today, from 3:40 p.m. to 3:55 p.m. I sat just west of Highland Road and Route 25 to count motor vehicles traveling east and west. I also counted pedestrian traffic, motor vehicles entering the common road. My findings were as follows in just 15 minutes (this wasn't rush hour, this wasn't lunchtime; this wasn't a weekend): eastbound motor vehicles - 125 in 15 minutes (2 bicycles); westbound motor vehicles- 155 (4 bicycles), 1 illegal U-turn; entering Highland Road - 2 cars; exiting Highland Road - 6 cars. The car making the illegal U-turn was 300' west of Highland Road; they made the U-turn to stop at the plant stand which is directly across from Highland Road. Last week, I was traveling west on the Main Road at this location when a senior driver made an illegal U-turn at the same spot to go to the plant stand. She got wiped out by a guy in his pickup that was towing a 25' camper in a Rav4. I was amazed at how somebody could pull an illegal U-turn at this location in front of a vehicle that was the size of a battleship coming down the road. The Village Green, which is just east of Highland Road, hosts many events during the year which also generates a lot of heavy volume, motor vehicles, pedestrian traffic. There isn't sufficient parking for these events; therefore, people park on the Main Road which creates major traffic hazards. Again, I would like the Board to add the other locations to the study for the traffic because traffic, you guys drive around here, you know it's pretty bad. Thank you. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Barbara McAdam: 800 Crown Land Lane, Cutchogue. My two major issues are water and traffic. At the risk of being repetitive, I'll try to briefly summarize what I have written for you and provide each of you with copies when I am finished. Permitting 139 Town Southold Planninq Board Paqe Six Auqust 20.2007 individual cesspools on approximately 20 of the 47 Heritage acres, to leach contaminants in such close proximity to our private wells is a threat to our health. Further hydrological studies need to be completed to determine precisely how the shallow aquifer which supplies our water will be impacted. How will Suffolk County Water Authority's evergreen pump station be affected? How will a 55+ community of such high density affect our private wells? In his letter to Ms. Woodhouse on December 12,2006, Suffolk County Water Authority's Steven Jones states that in Southold Town "the water supply is limited and there is a large impact to shallow aquifers." In the same letter, Mr. Jones "stronqlv urqes" that the Town of Southold impose conditions on this project." By the way, the project was originally proposed with chromaglass sewage treatment rather than individual cesspools. In his letter, he goes on to say "adopt methods to reduce the potential of degraded water from recharging the aquifer." In a July 22, 2007 article in the New York Times, Mr. Jones again describes this precise scenario currently taking place in East Northport. Mr. Jones states that "a combination of fertilizer from farming and the use of cesspools in residential development has contributed to the problem of water containing high nitrates, thus necessitating Suffolk County Water Authority to tap a well into the deeper and extremely fragile aquifer, roughly 845' deep, a controversial precedent that might one day "deplete and degrade this aquifer." Will there be ample and clean water if our neighborhood, like the Heritage, is to be connected to the Suffolk County public water supply? Though it has been offered to the roughly 60 homes in Highland, Crown Land, Bridal Lane and Court area, many people, retirees on fixed income, and young families raising 50 or more children in our neighborhood, cannot afford the nearly $6,000 per home price tag. These people are perfectly content with their private wells. But with the coming of Heritage in their backyard, the property rights are being violated. Signing up for public water is no longer an option, it is now a necessity. Should these seniors have to choose between eating and installing public water? Should families have to forego basic necessities to hook up to public water? It is the developer's responsibility to bear the cost of connecting every house in the areas adjacent to the Heritage to public water if this project proceeds. And even then, there is no guarantee that a high density development like the Heritage will not degrade the public water supply, forcing water management agencies like Suffolk County Water Authority to dig deeper into the already sensitive aquifer, or use other extreme measures to bring us clean drinking water. On another note, Mr. Robert Farmer, who is the supervisor of the Bureau of Drinking Water with Suffolk County Health Department, states that sewage from The Heritage property will run to Wickham Creek and Cutchogue Harbor. As you can see, this project impact will extend far beyond the hamlet center of Cutchogue. Even the shellfish need to be worried. Studies need to be done to determine how marine life in Peconic Estuary and town waters is threatened by this development. Mr. Farmer also indicates that "the town of Southold is responsible for storm water structures and should address this issue during their planning review process." I will give you a copy of his letter. If our drinking water doesn't kill us, perhaps the new traffic generated by the Heritage will. Active retirement doesn't mean sitting in your rocking chair waiting to die. For seniors like me, it means South old Town Plannina Board Paae Seven Auaust 20. 2007 more trips around our beautiful North Fork to visit friends, doctors, farm stands, wineries and local businesses. Today's seniors in their car are short hopping more than working people. The Heritage therefore will generate over 300 additional cars on our roadways between residents, their visitors and maintenance staff and most cars will make multiple trips daily. Our neighborhood consists of about 60 homes and 50 children. Currently, there are no outlets to and from our neighborhood, making it an appealing and safe place for young and old to live. So, it's the people who live here who are primarily the ones to use our roads. The Heritage proposal to open and connect Spur Road with Schoolhouse Lane or Griffing Street will create a bypass and shortcut for traffic from Main Road through our development. An emergency access to Bridal Lane is also proposed. In addition to the increased volume of vehicles, these proposed routes around Cutchogue Hamlet also pose a danger. Our right to control access to our own neighborhood, which we currently have, is jeopardized by this proposal. We will now be subjected to a significant influx of cars, trucks, motorcycles, emergency vehicles and their occupants whizzing by 24/7 to get to and from Crown Land and Depot Lane directly, without using Main Road. This traffic not only requires huge concessions from, and lack of autonomy for neighborhood residents, but it also endangers our safety. In an area without sidewalks, how will we walk or jog safely? How will the kids ride their bikes, skateboard or play street hockey without risking their lives? The construction phase of the Heritage ranges from 3-5 years, according to the developer. Consider the years of heavy construction vehicles plodding down our once quiet streets in a steady stream of noise and air pollution. Consider cars and trucks carrying out of town workers using this new bypass when Main Road is congested as it usually is during the months when construction will occur. Not only will this traffic be a nuisance, but it will also be hazardous. Ms. Rapuano mentioned the parochial school that borders the development; kids walking back and forth across the street to Parish Hall each day are going to be endangered by increased traffic. The Cutchogue Fire House, in its current location, requires entry into the congested hamlet center from New Suffolk Avenue. Given these traffic scenarios of congestion and gridlock, will emergency vehicles be able to respond quickly to fire, medical and other crises? Previous traffic studies performed by Nelson & Pope and reviewed by Dunn Engineering were incomplete, inconclusive, and just plain wrong, claiming that only locals would utilize this new bypass of Main Road if Spur Road is opened, are ludicrous. If you were trying to drive through Cutchogue this past Saturday, you would have seen everyone using a shortcut to avoid Main Road, if one existed. The Chairman of the South old Transportation Commission reserved the right to call for an additional traffic study in a letter dated July 30,2007. The Southold Town Board recently called for an independent traffic study to be paid for by the developer. I request that you, the Planning Board, formally authorize the Town Board to initiate a new independent traffic study. Let our roads, Spur and Bridal, be the roads not taken. Thank you. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Would you please make sure to sign your name. I hope all the previous speakers have remembered to sign your names; if you haven't, Southold Town Plannina Board Paae Eiaht Auaust 20, 2007 would you please do so. Does everyone who needs a copy of the Scoping paper have one? Is there anyone who doesn't have a copy? They are here in the front. Could you bring one back for someone else? Thank you. Child: I am from Cutchogue. I would like to say that if this project is done, we won't be able to ride bikes and play with our friends in the street. It will be very dangerous for us to do that, and our mommies will worry about us. Thank you. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Would you put your name on our list, please? If you have a paper, look at all the items that are on there, and see if there's something you'd like to comment on that's not here and needs to be included. Kellv Evers: I live on Schoolhouse Road, #725. I am strongly opposed to this project. I want to comment on the Human Resources section with the transportation and around the same thing with the traffic and #6. I don't really feel that this adequately describes how Schoolhouse Road particularly would be affected by this project going through, since this development or this street would be the most impacted by the traffic level because the main entrance is expected to be on the corner of Griffing Street and Schoolhouse Road. We don't as well have sidewalks to use. I have four children and live on that street. We would be confined to our house, not being able to use the street and, excuse me, I'm a little nervous. The building plans for 278 resident parking spaces, anticipating two cars per household, which seems reasonable, most of us have that. If these people who reside in these houses are still working, they will make a trip back and forth each day, which could mean 600 cars, if they make one trip, passing by my house every day. If they are like the rest of us, making two and three, that could be in excess of 1200-1800 cars passing by my house to go to Depot Lane every day. Depot Lane would be the choice street because it leads both to Main Road and to Sound Avenue. I know at 55 I will still be working, I expect many of the residents there would be, too. We don't have sidewalks. So we will no longer be able to bike, walk, rollerblade, run and enjoy the exercise that we are able to get right now. This would grossly negatively impact our quality of life. At a time when we are encouraged to put our children outside to play, we would have to confine our children to their houses, to their backyards, not to get the exercise that most people think is reasonable. During the construction phase as well, it would be just as bad with the trucks coming down Sound Avenue to Depot right past Schoolhouse Road, probably a steady stream of large construction vehicles bringing materials and bringing waste back. Construction workers, engineers, inspectors, Water Authority, L1PA, Keyspan and every other agency that needs to address this. And once it is complete, again, according to some of the letters that I have read from the Health Department, the way the water travels could definitely affect the wells on Schoolhouse Road, the private wells. We were not a community that was offered a hookup to the County water. Other developments were, and it is going to affect them; it is also going to affect us, and we were not, so that was something that I wanted to address as well. And this seems like it's too much for one Southold Town Plan nino Board Paoe Nine Auoust20.2007 community to bear. We, as Schoolhouse Road residents, would be bearing the brunt of it, we'd get most of the traffic, we'd get all of the construction, and it just seems like too much for one neighborhood to go through. So, I don't think that this report adequately addresses the residents of Schoolhouse Road. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Make sure you sign your name. Paul Romanelli: I live at 90 Bridal Court in Cutchogue, at the end of the development at Highland Road. I just would like to address a couple of things, I'm sure you've probably heard most of them already, but the issue of traffic that everyone is talking about is a pretty big one for everybody here, including myself. I am also on the stakeholders for Cutchogue, and we just, I think we delivered a letter today to the Planning Board requesting a full and broader traffic study for not just Cutchogue but I think the other stakeholders in the other communities are also looking for a much broader traffic study on the East End here. In fact, at our last meeting we had Tom Wickham attend, and he also agreed with us about having a more intense traffic study, because this development is just indicative of other issues that are occurring in the communities. We are seeing not just an increase in traffic, and this is just my own personal observation, but I think we are seeing not just an increase in traffic but also much more aggressive traffic. Some of that is actually due to the fact that the road has been cleaned up, smoothed out, and designed to move traffic. So, that being said, it makes for a bigger issue for this community and what's going to be built in here as well. The other aspect of this is, I know that the drawings that we saw show the road coming through from Griffing into Spur, and I know that there has been some questions of our community knowing that we bought in that area with those two side roads there, Spur and Bridal, both going into that development with the obvious intention at some point of those roads being built into another community. Well, certainly that probably made sense 20 years ago if the community that is being proposed now was of the same density of the neighboring communities. In fact, at that point if it was done, it would have made sense if those communities were all the same size. If Spur Road went into Griffing Street, and Bridal Lane went up into Evergreen, you would have had all interconnected communities. But we don't have that; we have disjointed communities that really don't connect well, and I feel that if this is tied in, we actually are suffering the burden of that. On top of that, it's poor planning, basically is what it comes down to. Trying to rectify now by throwing a road in there doesn't do the job. With Highland Road being a straight shot and a very wide road, we get traffic in excess of the speed limit down that road with a lot of children. Adding more traffic into it doesn't help. Again, that's another example; wide road, straight, no sidewalks; that is poor planning. If you're going to tie communities together, you gotta tie them together the right way with sidewalks and speed limits and proper traffic. So, what we are asking for is not just a traffic study that affects this development, which we want, but we want one that will help all of Cutchogue because as a stakeholder, I learned today and I am sure there are some people here from Fleet's Neck Property Association, they are also very concerned about traffic in the Southold Town Plannina Board Paae Ten Auaust 20. 2007 community. So, I think that's a pretty broad example of what we are concerned about, in addition to the issues of density on this development. That's alii have. Thank you. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Peter Lake. 2278 Hiahland Road. Cutchoaue: Obviously, I don't want to beat a dead horse. I spoke with the Health Department just about a year and a half ago. I was saying what things as a community we should be worried about. It comes down to: they said "nitrates." Nitrates is a byproduct of the septic systems. With the amount of proposed units on a small parcel of land, nitrate levels would increase. Over the past two years, I spent $5,000 on my own water system. My water currently tests better than the Suffolk Water Authority is offering. The nitrate level in the water has finally dropped to acceptable levels. I made the decision not to use public water should it become available for this reason alone. Therefore, I am very concerned about the possible contamination of the groundwater. Pharmaceuticals are another possible contaminate in the groundwater. Studies are in the early stages; it's something that I think should be considered that not a lot of people are looking into. In a community like that, there will be a tremendous amount of drugs being taken. I'm not saying that to be negative, but your body only processes 10% of drugs that are taken into the body; anywhere from 80-90% is being excreted you know how. As for the community facilities and services, I am not in a volunteer fire department here, I respect them very well. I could tell you what I do now. I work for Nassau County; I am a police officer over there. There are many similar developments: the volunteer fire departments have become overburdened with calls to these communities. As a result, fire companies have to rely on police department ambulance to answer emergency calls. In Nassau County, police officers respond to calls when fire departments cannot respond. This type of community has the potential of tying up local fire departments on a regular basis, resulting in extended response time on other emergency calls. This type of situation is dangerous and the increase of fatalities in Cutchogue and neighboring towns is great. I do it every day. I'm not from the fire department; maybe the fire department feels differently. This is what I see where I am at work, and what's potentially going to happen here. I just, somebody's got to talk about that. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Yes, ma'am? Could we please not applaud? This is not a for or against, let me remind you; this is a fact-finding for us, to make sure that we have all the information that we need, so it would move more quickly if we just hold the applause. Thank you. Linda Commenda. 1370 Hiahland Road: I just took a quick look. You mention quality of life, but there's no indication you're going to do any testing on the sound, the noise. Having so many people in a very quiet area where you barely hear your neighbors no matter how good a time they are having, or even with the children: you bring that many people with that many cars, with swimming pools, tennis courts and a gazebo where Southold Town Planninq Board Paqe Eleven Auqust 20. 2007 chances are they are going to want to have outdoor entertainment, you are going to disrupt the quality of life of everybody on the street/household area. Chairperson Woodhouse: Please sign your name. Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to address the Board? Yes, sir? Steve Tettlebach. 1530 Crown Land Lane. Cutchoque: There are several things that I would like to either reiterate or to re-emphasize, and a couple of things I would like to point out to the Board that maybe has not been emphasized at this point. We have heard a lot of discussions about traffic and I think it's rather obvious that the volume of traffic that would be generated from a development of this size is just way too large for the area. We don't want it on Highland and Crown Land where I live. People on Schoolhouse don't want it and people on Depot don't want it. It's just way too much traffic for Cutchogue. The only way to perhaps come to any viable solution is to greatly reduce the size of the project; it's just way too much for what we have in this area. In looking over the scoping document that the developers have provided, one of the things that's brought up is that they will look at existing water quality from published information. What I would like to urge the Planning Board to seek from the developers is to have them do a thorough review of the water quality in all of the existing neighborhoods that may be impacted, because it's clearly going to impact us. We would like to know where we are at and if things greatly decline in water quality, we would like to be aware of that. Obviously for health reasons, but we should know where we are at now and perhaps where we are going to go with the size of this development. The property itself, I've had the opportunity to walk the property and there's no mention of standing water on the property, which there was back in the spring. This may represent seasonal wetlands, and there may be special habitats that are represented in this property. There's no mention of that made in what the developers are suggesting that they are going to do in the Draft Environmental statement. So, I would urge the Planning Board to seek from the developers a very thorough study of the habitats. This is an area that is not just a flat farm field, and it may represent some very sensitive and critical environmental habitat, and that needs to be looked at. The last point I want to bring up has to do with the quality of life in Cutchogue. The Environmental Impact outline suggests that cultural resources will be evaluated, and I would like the Board to very seriously consider what impact this development would have on the quality of life in Cutchogue. How do you evaluate that? How do you put a number on that? Everyone here, and there's a very large audience here, I think most people here are not in favor of this project, and I think that speaks volumes for the community and all of Cutchogue and all of the North Fork. This is a huge development project; what impact will that have on our town? That's a very serious consideration. The developers, I'm sure, want to see this done yesterday. I beseech the Board to please take your time and very seriously evaluate every single item in the EIS, and take it very seriously. Thank you. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Southold Town Plannina Board Paae Twelve Auaust 20. 2007 Bruce Stewart: Good evening. I live at 870 Schoolhouse Road. Although I have a lot of concerns, I am just going to touch on a few of them. The water quality is one of them. We just put a submersible well in not too long ago, and I'd like to continue to use my own water. The runoff is another problem. Waste products: another problem. I would also like to touch on the construction issue. Thirty years ago, when we moved in, you could take a nap on Schoolhouse Road. That's not true anymore. Right now, it's a shortcut to the dump, shortcut to the post office, shortcut to church; as in Highland and the neighbor in Crown Land said, they don't want to be besieged by traffic, and they would be; they are absolutely correct, because we are now. And now they want to add another 139 homes at approximately two occupants per home. That's going to flood the roads. There are kids. I am fortunate right now I have a grandchild. There's nothing my wife and I like better than pushing him up and down the road, which will come to a screeching halt when those big trucks start rolling. Quality of life: I'm a little worried about the construction phase. As well as later on, the traffic phase. I hope that's considered very heavily in this. Thank you. Chairperson Woodhouse: Is there anyone else who would like to address the Board this evening? Tom Sledieski. 1170 Hiahland Road. Cutchoaue: Good evening everyone. Just to follow up on what Linda said, the noise is something I don't think we can even consider and comprehend at this point. When you look at the potential proposed project and the effects, I think we also have to check into the potential for light pollution. There's no indication whether these tennis courts would be lighted, whether the swimming pool is going to be lighted. Anybody who has any idea of that, just look out your backyard; one of the nicest things you can do on a summer night on our road right now, and a winter night, too, when it's especially clear, is to go outside in your backyard and look upstairs. It's beautiful. There are stars, you can count 'em. You can pick 'em out. On the other hand, if you look close to the horizon in the east, unfortunately you see that lovely glow from King Kullen. We need the lights there, it's a safety issue, but we have no street lights on our street; there's no street lights on Crown Land; there's no streetlights on Spur or Bridal. And I'm pretty sure that a lot of the folks who may want to move into this community may want street lights. They may like to have their tennis courts lit; they may want to have their swimming pool lit. And I think that's a very large quality of life issue which we could probably include, and I would ask you to include when asking these folks for a statement on this with respect to #16,17, anything in there. So, on top of the traffic issues which have been very well brought up and highlighted thus far, the water issues, etc., I think we really have to look into the light issue as well because it could have a dramatic effect on our way of life. Thank you very much. Bruce Stewart: If I may, I'd like to make one more comment. It revolves around the traffic issue. I am a member of the Cutchogue Fire Department, but I am not speaking for them in any manner, sense or form. This is my personal opinion. Those emergency Southold Town Planninq Board Paqe Thirteen Auqust20,2007 vehicles, big and small, do not run themselves. Responders have to get to the firehouse. If I can't get out of my driveway, and the other responders can't get out of their driveway, those vehicles are going to sit on the ramp, which is only going to add to the response time. And that was the last issue I would like the Board to consider heavily. Thank you. Chairperson Woodhouse: Next. Yes, ma'am? Elaine Svrkin: 660 Schoolhouse Road. I just came up with this other idea. How about our post office, our library and the impact it's going to have, because they're just rebuilding the library now to accommodate the people that are there now; so what's going to happen when 200+ people come in? And also our post office: what's going to happen? All the boxes are taken in the post office. That's my question. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. We're going to donate a pen to that podium. We're donating another one. And you are? Paul Romanelli: It was mentioned before that a lot of people are opposed to the project. I want to state personally for myself, I'm not necessarily opposed to a project in there, particularly for seniors, because I think a senior development in there is an ideal solution. However, what I am opposed to is the density, and the design. If it was designed closer to something like Founders Village in Southold, with significantly less density, is spread out, is single stories, I think that might accommodate a lot of concerns that a lot of people have aside from traffic issues and some of the other things that were brought up. Benia Schwartz: I live in Cutchogue; I have the pleasure of living in the first house built on Fleet's Neck. It was built back in the days when there weren't very many summer residents out here. There were a lot of beaches closer to the city; people didn't have to come out this far. They came out here for hunting. I built my house as a hunting cabin. I don't do much hunting anymore. Things change. Anyway, now here we are in 2007, but some things don't change that fast. Cutchogue is home to the old house. With all due respect, The Heritage at Cutchogue is right there on the village green, that's the old house. And that's the community which I'm a part of; I wasn't born here, but I came here when I was 7 years old and I've been here for over 40 years. I'm relying on the members of this Board to give this proposal for development a hard look. Unfortunately, what I'm seeing so far is that the "alternatives" which are an essential part of the scoping process in the EIS, are relegated to the back of the last page. I appreciate saving the trees printing on the sides of both pages, but I think we need to look at those alternatives. Unfortunately, there are none here. The first one is required in every environmental, it's boiler plate, it's always there. Unfortunately, I don't get the impression it's truly being considered here. I'm ready to move into this place. When is it going to be built? I get the impression that, we've heard from some people, this is South old Town Planninq Board Paqe Fourteen Auqust 20. 2007 going to happen. All we can do is mitigate it. The least we can do is look at a little more than one alternative; clustering single family vs. multi-family units-what about the density? Isn't that an alternative? How many units they have? Aren't there other alternatives we should be looking at? There's so much more that should be in this document that I just feel.... Chairperson Woodhouse: What else? Could you make a suggestion? Benia Schwartz: I will try to submit something. What I would like to see? Yes, I could make a suggestion and I've been making suggestions for the last 25 years; I've been here for over 40 years but I've been coming before Town Boards and I've been an attorney for the last 15 years. Suggestions: I was called the "Grinch of Cutchogue" when I pointed out that the Santa's Christmas Tree Farm didn't have a certificate of occupancy. They advertise themselves as the biggest..... this is all relevant to what's happening right here with this particular proposal. Sotheby's Real Estate opened up on the Main Road, then they moved into the center of Cutchogue. Excuse me, we're talking about the Cutchogue Hamlet. The central business commercial property in the center of Cutchogue is now a real estate office. I don't go in there for a cup of coffee anymore. Maybe I could, it might be free. But it's not what I feel belongs in the center of Cutchogue. This suggests that there's a failure and a lack of planning in South old Town. There's a failure on the part of the people on this Board, and I am not here to get confrontational. I appreciate you are trying to do a good job. I have been trying to help the Town for the last 10 years I have been in the web design business. I suggested and was welcomed by the library; we have our esteemed former library director of Cutchogue Library, to help start a website for the Cutchogue Library. I think that's added a lot to the library. I would suggest that the Town could use a real website instead of what they have now. That could be part of this suggestion, communication between government and citizens which, you can see the fact that I tried to get the draft scope of this before I came to this meeting and it was not available until I came here, and even when I came here it wasn't available. A lot could be done. Essentially, to cut this short, I don't want to spend; I got things to do at home, I gotta go home and bring the birds in. But it's just; I've had enough, OK? Short term profit from individual developers should not trump the long-term loss of the community. Recently, I don't know what's being done, but there's a sign that just went up at the end of Pequosh Avenue, "Hertz Rent-a-Car." Now, I haven't seen any cars there, but since when is a national car company located at the end of Pequosh on the Main Road? And we're talking about building a 250+ unit development. Chairperson Woodhouse: I look forward to getting your correspondence. Benia Schwartz: I'm almost finished. The last thing I'd like to share with you is: across the street from me, I had some neighbors from the city that made a proposal to add a second story to their house. Although they were already within the setback, 30' from South old Town Plannina Board Paae Fifteen Auaust20.2007 the road, they wanted to cut the setback to 15'. Well, the Zoning Board of Appeals was all ready to give them their easement or whatever, let them have the setback. Then I brought up that this would have adverse environmental impacts, it would impact negatively the aesthetics, the economics of the community. A lot of these new houses that are getting blown; these little houses are getting destroyed and blown apart, whether houses are built on spec or for the owner, I don't care: they're reducing the value of the properties next door to them by at least 50%. Well, anyway, to make a long story short, I pointed out the negative impacts on the environment and the neighborhood and the real danger, people could get killed because of the way this thing was designed, it's going to create additional hazards in an intersection. The corner where I live, there's no yield sign; there's no stop sign. There's two roads... Georae Solomon: Excuse me sir, what does this pertain to the Heritage project? Benia Schwartz: I'm saying that we need to take a broader look. I understand that this is one of the largest projects that has been proposed for South old Town, let alone Cutchogue Hamlet. I think we need to expand the scope of this scope and become proactive, not reactive. Thank you. Georae Solomon: You're welcome. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Is there someone else who would like to address the Board? David Groeneveld: 710 Harbor Road. I may be a little off the wall, but about five years ago I was looking for an acre of land out here to buy. Eventually, I landed on Harbor Road there and I had to buy two acres of land. The builder used to make miniature plots; so how can they do that to him where he's got to sell two-acre plots instead of like this company or whoever they want to do, make little tiny houses, or probably big houses on small land. I mean, how is that possible that they can do this? I mean, the builder is dead now anyway but his daughter was retarded and all that, and he had to... I imagine she's in the hospital someplace. For the life of me I can't figure out how that is possible. Chairperson Woodhouse: OK. This particular parcel has a zone that enables it to come in with a plan to build this number of units. Zoning is determined not by this Board, but by the Town Board. This is a high density zone. Is there anyone else here who has not spoken tonight who wants to bring up a point that has not been discussed? Gary Row: 455 Schoolhouse Road. One point that was not brought up, I believe, was we talked about how many cars are going to be in and out of the roads every day: 600 cars, 400 cars, 800 cars. What has not been looked at or discussed are the service support vehicles and people for all these homes and people throughout the year. South old Town Planninq Board Paqe Sixteen Auqust 20. 2007 It's going to end up like another Hamptons. At 6:30-9:30 in the morning, where you can't get into the Hamptons. It's going to end up as an issue for landscapers, L1PA, and everybody else servicing all these facilities on top of the people that live there. That was not brought up, I believe. So, you've got the service. Anybody who has ever driven to the Hamptons recently now, 6:30-9:30 in the morning on the main road out there, 27, forget it. You can't get into the Hamptons; you've got to take the ferry. You're going to end up with the same situation here. Chairperson Woodhouse: Thank you. Please sign your name, and leave the pen. I just want to remind you, there will be other hearings on this project where you can express a broad range of opinions on various things. Tonight, this is the Scoping session. Again, if there is a point that has not been brought up relative to the Scoping session, you have an opportunity to do so now. John Cato: 2605 Crown Line Lane. This is kind of a shot in the dark. It's so ironic that it's going to be named The Heritage of Cutchogue. An alternative, why don't, I mean, the fact that we have a room full of people right now, I mean it's only a matter of time before more people of South old Town are going to realize this, and this is a bad idea. So, why don't we just preserve all this land and the Town pay back the developer for the land and plop a reserve on it because if we don't do it now, we are never going to get the chance. Like you said, this is a session to think outside the box, and we do have some ideas, but Southold Town might want to speak up. That's it. Chairperson Woodhouse: I hope you take your comments to the Town Board, because that's the place where many of these comments are appropriately discussed. Tonight we are here on the draft scoping. Is there anybody else who wants to make a comment relative to this scoping session? Yes, sir? Jack Hoffman: I live on Eastwood Drive in Cutchogue. I just picked up your word that there will be further hearings on this subject open to the public. I just have a suggestion. There were so many questions regarding the traffic problem which is approaching us. If, for one of the future sessions, and I am sure there will be more discussion on traffic, if a drawing or a presentation of the road area was presented to the public or displayed to the public in attendance at the time these traffic problems were suggested, it would help everybody understand the traffic problems that we will reiterate when this development comes about. Chairperson Woodhouse: OK. When you come back for future hearings, when we are having a public hearing on a specific project, there will be maps that will be outside up against the wall so you can see them. But you are able to come into the Planning Board office, which is located in the bank building, at look at maps and get additional information. The agenda is always there ahead of time. There were plenty of copies of Southold Town Plannino Board Paoe Seventeen Auoust 20. 2007 the Draft Scope there to be picked up and we will make sure there are always enough materials in advance. So you are welcome to come and get information. Thank you. Tom Hall. Hiohland Road: Under "alternatives to be studied," like the gentleman said, we could put "preserve the property." We could also put "rezone the property," because as the lady pointed out earlier, in 1984 this thing was railroaded through to a quarter acre zoning. So let's railroad it through back to two acres. Chairperson Woodhouse: That's a Town Board issue. Thank you. Tom Hall: I want that said on alternatives: "rezoning and preserved." Chairperson Woodhouse: When we have a hearing, let me just say, we are responding to existing zoning; it is not up to this Board to make determinations on zoning. Tom Hall: That's an alternative. Chairperson Woodhouse: Not for zoning issues. Tom Hall: Preserving? Is preserving under that? Chairperson Woodhouse: Not for zoning issues on this Board; it is not the jurisdiction of this Board to rezone any parcel. Tom Hall: How about preserving? Chairperson Woodhouse: Is there anyone else who would like to talk about this? Bruno Semon: Sir, the preservation is also done by the Town Board. Not the Planning Board. We get involved, but it's the Town Board and Land Preservation that gets directly involved. Chairperson Woodhouse: We are asked to comment after the fact on those issues. So that would be the place to bring those concerns: the Town Board. Yes, ma'am? Eileen Mav: 455 Schoolhouse Road. I'd like to just bring up two points for the Board to consider. The negative impact on all the existing businesses on the Main Road in the Town of Cutchogue which aren't very many, but they do exist. There will be literally no place to pull your car over, not even for a scoop of ice cream. So their businesses are going to be heavily negatively impacted. There's a parcel of land next to the post office that I doubt will sell because, just for the same reason. Unless there's parking provisions made, people will not stop to shop in the area. Southold Town Plannina Board Paae Eiahteen Auaust 20. 2007 Secondly, I agree with the gentleman who said that the smaller homes that are being knocked down and larger homes being built diminish the value of the homes next door. I believe that the existence of this community will also diminish all of the homes in Cutchogue because, as a real estate sales person, if I am trying to find a home for a prospective buyer from out of town, or sell a home in Cutchogue to someone else, a big concern is quality of life. The congestion in the area will decrease the home values throughout all of Cutchogue. Thank you. Chairperson Woodhouse: We have time for one or two more people; if there's anyone else who has not spoken and wants to share your comments on this draft scope. Patricia Cato: I live at 2605 Crown Land Lane. I moved into that development in 1983, and I know what it was like, it was gorgeous. I have now, I went to work, I am a working mom. I can't set my son down to tell him about this. I really hope this Board listens to everyone, and put yourself in our position. Think about us in our development and how would you like it being put next to you? And please, if you're going to have your public hearing, have it where working parents can come. OK? I work until 5:00 in Riverhead. So I didn't get here until 5:35, 5:40. I told my son, and he came down. But unfortunately he can come down because he's still home from college. Next week he goes back. Chairperson Woodhouse: We are willing to stay here as long as somebody wants to come and speak. Anthonv Trezza: Typically our public meetings do begin at 6:00. This was a special meeting, a scoping session. Joe Townsend: I'd just like to say one thing: we are not only a nation of laws; we are a town of laws. As a Planning Board, our job is to evaluate the proposals and hopefully improve those proposals as they are presented to us according to and within the confines of the zoning laws. That's what we are trying to do. We are not trying to be an opposition to what the community wants. But we have a specific job we have to do, and that's what we are doing here. I am sure many of us up here feel your concerns about the way things are going and the concerns about over-development and problems, but we really have to see what we can do under the existing guidelines to make this the best project; and that's what we wanted to do, we wanted to get your input on that sort of thing. In terms of alternatives within the existing code, the existing zoning designation, certainly it would be great to see a lot of property preserved in this town, and traffic never to be a problem. I guess in general there's been short-sightedness on the Town Board's part and the Planning Board's part in terms of the potential for growth of traffic. It has happened in every town on Long Island, and we have to think about those things. But this is probably not the venue to do that, because we are just here trying to respond to the Town Code. We are getting a lot of information; I think it's been South old Town Planninq Board Paqe Nineteen Auqust 20.2007 valuable, and I think we will be able to improve this project from some of the information that we have gotten, and some of the things that we will put into the scope. But if you are concerned about preservation and traffic generally, speak to the Town Board about creating new legislation. We will be happy to give our input on that. That's just my opinion as one member, but I just felt I should say it based upon the tenor of the comments here. We do have the best interest of the Town at heart I think. Chairperson Woodhouse: I want to thank all of you for coming out and I want to thank those families who brought your children to come and see democracy in action; I think it's really important. There are many of you that we have not seen before, and we hope that you will keep coming back to our meetings when there are subjects of interest, but also that you will follow what's happening in your hamlet. There's a very active Cutchogue Stakeholders group that is having regular ongoing meetings. There are people here who are members of that Stakeholders group, some of whom have identified themselves already. I hope you will speak with them and get connected and find out more about what's happening. I just want to restate that after tonight... excuse me? Paul Romanelli: Can I make a comment about that? Stakeholders are not involved with the Heritage project at all. Chairperson Woodhouse: Correct. For those people who are interested in what's happening and want to talk about the future and how you'd like to see your hamlet develop, there are opportunities to do that through the Stakeholders group. You're right, Stakeholders do not take positions on individual projects per se, and that's not what we look to them for. After tonight, we will receive written comments for a period of fifteen calendar days or until the close of business on September 4th. So, if you go home and you think of another point that you have not had an opportunity to share with us, please communicate with us, and thank you again very much for coming. Good night. There being no further business to come before the meeting, it was ADJOURNED at 6:20 p.m. ~ Linda Randolph, Secreta Jerilyn Woodhouse, Chair