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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-02/22/1990 TRUSTEES John M. Bredemeyer, III, President Henry P. Smith, Vice President Albert J. Krupski, Jr. John L. Bednoski, Jr. John B. Tuthill Telephone (516) 765-1892 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD SCOTT L. HARRIS Supervisor Town Hall, 53095 Main Road P.O. Box 1179 Southold, New York 11971 Fax (516) 765-1823 Telephone (516) 765-1800 MINUTES FEBRUARY 22, 1990 PRESENT WERE: President, John M. Bredemeyer, Trustee, Henry P. Smith Trustee, John L. Bednoski, Jr. Trustee, John Tuthill III ABSENT WAS: Trustee, Albert J. Krupski, Jr. Call to Order Pledge of Allegiance Next Trustees Board Meeting on Thursday March 22, p.m. in the Meeting Hall. Worksession at 6:00 p.m. Field Inspections: Tuesday, March 13, 1990 10 a.m. 1990 at 7:00 I. MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustee monthly for December 1989, a check for $5,581.76 was issued to the Supervisor's Office for deposit in General Fund. II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for review. X. GRANDFATHER APPLICATIONS: We will start with Cutchogue Harbor Marina so that he does not have to wait since we already discussed at the work session. 1. Cutchogue Harbor Marina request for a Grandfather pe£mit for the replacement of a preexisting bulkhead, in kind/in place. This project is located on West Creek Drive, Cutchogue. A motion was made by HENRY SMITH and seconded by JOH~ BR~NOSKI to grant a grandfather permit and the Trustees will dispense with the fees if the project is placed back 18" behind the property line. ALL AYES. II/. AMENDMENTS/CHANGES/WAIVERS: · B~ard of Trustees 2 February 22, 1990 1. Daniel Shybunko request for a waiver to complete additional 15' of driveway. Location of project is the corner of Tepee & Wampum Way, Southold. A motion was made by HENRY SMITH and seconded by JOHN TUTHILL to grant a waiver for this project. 2. Parnel Wickham Searl request for a waiver to construct a one family dwelling. Location of project is off New Suffolk Road, New Suffolk. A motion was made by JOHN TUTHILL and seconded by JOHN BEDNOSKI to grant a waiver for this project as per the January 1, 1990 survey. 3. Proper-T Services on behalf of Ira Wechterman to request amendment to a permit for a floating dock. Location of project is Oak Street, Cutchogue. A motion was made by HENRY SMITH and seconded by JOHN TUTHILL to grant a waiver on this project. 4. Joseph Berardino request for an extension on permit ~443 to runt to November 24, 1990. A motion was made by HENRY SMITH and seconded by JOHN BEDNOSKI to approve this extension. IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS: THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE SUFFOLK TIMES AND AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE LONG ISLAND TRAVELER WATCHMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. JOHN BREDEMEYER: The first public hearing is in the matter of Robert Kassner on behalf of Nunnakoma Water Association, Inc. Southerly end of Wampum Way, Southold, to dredge a channel approximately 1500 cubic yards of material to be hydraulically removed and pumped to the adjacent beach as nourishment. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak to on behalf of this application? Any one here who wishes to speak against this application? I hear no comments. The being 7:15, I will close the hearing. CAC has no problem. HENRY SMITH seconded. ALL AYES. JOHN BREDEMEYER: In the matter of the application of Stephen Lupow, Esq. on behalf of the Hay Harbor Club located on Fishers Island, to demolish an existing bathhouse and replacement of same. Is there anyone here who wishes to be heard with respect to this matter? STEPHEN LUPOW: I just want to relate to the Board that we are here to cooperate in any way and if the Board has any questions, we are here to answer them. Board of Trustees 3 February 22, 1990 JOHN BREDEMEYER: The CAC had no problems. Any Board members have any questions of Mr. Lupow? BOARD: No. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Is there anyone else here wishing to speak with respect to this application, for or against. O.K. Being no further co~,~ents we can close the hearing in the matter of the Hay Harbor Club. ALL AYES It is now 7:16. In the matter of the application of John H. Geideman on behalf of Robert $. Koebele to add 4' X 18" to an existing float, 30' X 6', using an additional pile. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this application? Anyone here who wishes to speak against this application? Board members? Board: No. CAC approved as submitted. Being no further comments, we can close the hearing with respect to Robert S. Koebele. It is now 7:17. In the matter of the application of Joseph Perricone, 2060 Clearview Avenue, $outhold, to construct a timber dock consisting of a 4' X 14' hinged ramp; (2) 6' X 12' floats secured by (4) iron pipes. Anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of the application. JOSEPH PERRICONE: My name is Joseph Perricone. I was issued a permit to build the float and during that time I got very, very sick. The Doctor told me not to work any more. It took me eight months to clear it. I came back to renew the application and they told to appear here. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. Does any Board members have any questions of Mr. Perricone? Board: No. Anyone else have any comments? Being no comments we can close the public hearing on this matter. We will be voting on these shortly after the public hearings. MR. PERRICONE: O.K. Thank you. ALL AYES. JOHN BREDEMEYER: In the matter of the application of En-Consultants, inc. on behalf of David Winkler, Beebe Drive, Cutchogue, to construct a timber dock consisting of a 4' X 130' fixed elevated (4' above grade of marsh) walk; 4' X 12' ramp; 6' x 20' float secured by (2) 8" diameter pilings. Is there anyone who wishes to speak on behalf of this application? Anyone who wishes to speak against this application? Board members? CAC voted to approve as submitted. Board: No comments. Being no further comment, we will close this hearing. ALL AYES. It is now 7:20. In the matter of the application of En-Consultants, Inc. on behalf of William Wickham, Old Harbor Road, New Suffolk, to remove and replace in same location and configurations 43 1.f. of bulkhead. Dredge up to 20' in front B~ard of Trustees 4 February 22, 1990 maximum depth of 4' below MLW. Approximately 25 c.y. of spoil will be removed and used for backfill. Is there anyone who wishes to speak on behalf of this application. TOM SAMUELS: Mr. Haje is on vacation and couldn't appear tonight. I can answer any questions you might have. JOHN BREDEMEYER: The CAC voted to approve this as submitted. Being no questions, are there any other comments or concerns with respect to this application. There being none, we will close this public hearing with respect to William Wickham. ALL AYES. It is now 7:21. In the matter of the application of En-Consultants on behalf of John Lockwood, Old Harbor Road, New Suffolk to remove and replace in same location and configuration 39 1.f. of bulkhead. Dredge up to 20' in front to maximum depth of 4' below MLW. Approximately 10 c.y. of spoil will be removed and used for backfill. Is there anyone who wishes to speak with respect to this application? This application is directly next and continuous with the previous and the following as well. Three in a row where the bulkheads were dilapidated. The CAC has moved to approve this as submitted. Any comments from the Board or anyone else wish to speak with respect to this application? Board: No. There being no comments we will close the hearing in the matter of John Lockwood. The next hearing is in the matter of Susan Kwit, also in the same line of bulkheads as Lockwood and Wickham, En-Consultant on behalf of Susan Kwit Old Harbor Road, New Suffolk, to replace within 1' 54 1.f. of timber bulkhead. Approximately 5 c.y. of backfill will be trucked in. Does the Board have any comments with respect to this or would like to address Dr. Samuels? Who is here on behalf of En-Consultants? KATHRYN TUTHILL: I am Kathryn Tuthill. Last week I came and said this. We prefer that this not go out further into the creek. I do own the underwater there. They have another bulkhead behind the one, so when tkey replace it they would replace as is instead of coming out further. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. That was a concern of Trustees on the Field Inspection. We had discussed this at the last meeting with Roy and he indicated that he was going to try to get back to Susan Kwit. Do you have any information on that? TOM SAMUELS: Yes. The problem on this one is the classical problem that we have been addressing periodically over the years of removal. On the Wickhams side of the creek we can get equipment in there and there is no mess and dwellings. The problem with the Kwit property is that it is very close to the bulkhead in questions that is to be replaced. It is going to be a sever construction problem. I hesitate to, I am not quarrelling with the Tuthills of course. Larry is a very good friend of mine. The problem is as is see it is if in fact Ms. Tuthill owns the bottom of the creek, then only a title wetlands permit is required. Going back historically over my dealings with the Trustees. If however, she has title to the creek than I B~ard of Trustees 5 February 22, 1990 would say the question is a legal matter and one that is not properly addressed to this board. It is true of course that the Kwits need a Tidal Wetlands map. The question of ownership of the bottom is something that would require a good deal of research and tidal search. To the best of my knowledge School House Creek is Town Trustee bottom. Whether there was a dead at some time to the Tuthill's, it is possible. I don't know. The owner has not researched it. I know Roy hasn't researched it. I certainly haven't researched it. It is a questions. It is a legitimate question. It is a legitimate problem because of the proximately of the house and the grade behind it. It is not to say that it can't be done. Anything can be done. It will increase the course of the structure by some 37% to do it. To remove the bulkhead. I think in this particular case in as much as there is presently a float in front of that bulkhead the new bulkhead will extend no further then the out side edge of the float. I assume is over Town Trustees bottom or over Ms. Tuthill's bottom, creek bottom. I don't think it is going to impact her bottom, creek bottom. It is the old question of property rights in our creeks. It is a difficult one to handle. I can assure the Tuthill's and I assure the Trustees that the float that presently exist in front of this bulkhead will not displaced further seaward. It will remain in its present location. I appreciate it is a difficult problem for you and I appreciate it is a difficult problem Ms. Tuthill. JOHlq BREDEMEYER: Are saying the float will be diminished in size so that there won't be any extension seaward of what is there presently? TOM SAMUELS: No. There is room between the existing ramp and the float to construct the bulkhead. The ramp will reduced in length in order to accommodate 18" less. JOH~ BREDEMEYER: I see. JOHN TUTHILL: I would like to know, does Ms. Tuthill have any objection in doing what you want to do? MS. TUTHILL: First of all historically the Kwits, before they purchased the property they wanted a quick clam from me so that they can bring that bulkhead out. There is one behind it. If you go back over there deeds, just 2 or 3 of them, it is obvious. The whole place was dug out by my father. I don't think there is any question about that. We have got bulkhead that was there when they moved in. That will hold up their house. You are not aware of the previous bulkhead that is there. TOM SAMUELS: I am aware of that. I perceive, however, that it is many, many years old. MS. TUTHILL: They only moved there in the seventies. TOM SAMUELS: The bulkhead in question that we are replacing must be conservatively speaking at least thirty five years old. I don't think the Kwits built it. We are not replacing a twenty year old bulkhead. MS. TUTHILL: They did build it. TOM SAMUELS: You may be correct. If that is the bulkhead the original bulkhead is behind the bulkhead to be replaced, we might be able to do that. I think what we should do, and we will, check your records and see if a permits was in fact issued Board of Trustees 6 February 22, 1990 for that bulkhead. 1970 was before the DEC, those were the good days... JOHN BREDEMEYER: Depending on the perception of the ownership of the bottom was there, there may not have been a Trustee permit requested. TOM SAMUELS: That is correct, but perhaps there was. It doesn't truly solve the problem. It is going to be difficult to do. I am not saying it can't be done. I will talk to Ms. Tuthill after this over and perhaps some accommodation can be reached. We will certainly make every effort to eliminate the problem from your discission. JOH~ BREDEMEYER: That would be advisable. You have the additional factor that we have always been admonished to consider all bottom land Trustee land until proven otherwise and the fees will also go up as a result as replacements in front. It would be the new fee schedule. We don't like bulkheads on Trustee land and that is $8 per linear foot. If the ownership turned out to be Trustee land it will also be a factor against, economically at the least. I know the Trustees are concerned about small creeks getting smaller. The few that we have. JOHN TUTHILL: It seems to me that the best way to solve it is as you suggest, if you can get together with Ms. Tuthill and come to some agreeable work. TOM SAMUELS: I will certainly make every effort. I can't, of course, speak for Mr. & Mrs. Kwit, but I would advise them of any accommodation that we can reach. LARRY TUTHILL: In reference to this property you can check the Town tax map, you will find it is not Trustee bottom. If need be I can possibly bring in the dredging maps that start back in the 1930's. In order for the Kwit's to get clear title to the land we did have to sign off the bulkhead because it was going out into the creek. Mr. Kwit has complained a lot to my sister in referenced to her docks and bulkheads and has created quit a bit of problems with her own piece of property. I don't think the fact that someone who has created all kinds of problems should say hey we have to help you out when you have problems. They say we are in charge and we are going to take all your rights. And then they come back and say we need help. I don't believe it should be like that. The deeds show that they don't have this property. They do have the rights to this creek. We certainly want to give them that. There rights to extend out further on someone who has complained about others who are in the creek, I don't think it is acceptable. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Is there anyone else who would like to address this matter or have any additional information? The CAC has no problem with. There being no further comments, we will close the hearing in the matter of Susan Kwit. ALL AYES. The next hearing (7:33) is in the matter of Proper-T Services on behalf of Sy Stahl, 1425 West Road, Cutchogue, to replace existing bulkhead (132'); add 15' return at each end. I see the CAC voted to recommend approval. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this application. Board of Trustees 7 February 22, 1990 JIM FITZGERALD: Jim Fitzgerald of Proper-T if there are any questions. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Anyone else who wishes to speak in respect to this application. O.K. Being no further co~ent I will close the hearing in the matter of Sy Stahl. It is now 7:34. In the matter of the application of Wayne Monson, 600 Smith Drive South, Southold, to construct a private single dock, ramp and platform adjacent to existing bulkhead. CAC approved with stipulation, construction does not impede any future dock/floats for the neighbors directly across the creek or impede navigation which would be an item the Trustees will automatically view. Is there anyone who wishes to speak on behalf of the application? Anyone here who wishes to speak against the application? Trustee members? Board: No. Being no further comment, we close the hearing on the application of Wayne Monson. Next hearing is in the matter of Peconic Associates, Inc. on behalf of Fred Dacimo/Narrow River Marina, Narrow River Road, Orient to dredge existing channel to 4' in depth (Approximately 2100 c.y.) at points indicated and dredging marina entrance silted in from storm and highway runoff. Is there anyone who wishes to speak in behalf of this application. MERLON WIGGIN: Merlon Wiggin. Peconic Associates. This project is primarily maintenance. The material is silted in from agricultural runoff from the various years. The project by design does not include the enlargement of the marina. Primarily to restore and maintain and utilize what already has been there. When we got the culture zone management consistency review of this, particular reference was made to policy 19. For the record I would like to read part of that. Protect, maintain, and increase the level and types of access to public water-related recreation resources and facilities so that these resources and facilities may be fully utilized by all the public in accordance with reasonably anticipated public recreation needs and the protection of historic and natural resources. In providing such access, priority shall be given to public beaches, boating facilities and so forth. Also this project has the benefit of on site review. A representative of all regulatory agencies with the Corp. of Engineers, the DEC, Trustees and also a representative of the Town Board. In addition there has been a lot of attempt made to get input from the local residence, the people that use the area. They have actively participated in the project planning and made suggestions that we think have been good ones. We have incorporated those in the project. Another concern that has made itself evident in the last year is the hazards to the owners and the users of some of the small boats. A small sail boat, for example, at low tide can become a ground and because the silted nature of the water it is not safe for a youngster or children to wade a shore because they can't move their feet silt. The project has taken all these things into consideration. We think Board of Trustees 8 February 22, 1990 we have got all the plans and inputs from everybody. If we can answer any questions we will be happy to do so. Thank you. HENRY SMITH: The last time we spoke of this, it was my understanding that the owner of the marina and I think you Mr. Wiggin were going to get together with the people in the area. I think it was Mr. Latham, Mr. Horton and few others and try to work out some sort of a compromise that everybody was happy. Was that ever done? MERLON WIGGIN: Yes, we have done that. On three separate meetings and Stew Horton was one of the ones that was the leadership and active participation representing all the people. He is here tonight. HENRY SMITH: Thank you. JOHlq BREDEMEYER: As a result of that meeting I think it was important to note that there were some changes made to the plan from the last meeting. For those of you who where here last month to this month and that was of the suggestion of the group that there be limits to the dredging and it not go right up to the Town ramp so that small boat operators can launch without having a problem. As proposed it would not go any closer. The slope would not begin until ten feet out. You would not have fool depth until, probably it was a 4-1 slope, thirty feet depth off the ramp. If someone is launching a boat in the range of twelve to fifteen feet or twenty foot light aluminum boat that has to get in the water and be on the ramp surface, will not have to worry about running into troubles at the end of the ramp. Additionally there were soundings taken with the Bay Constable and the Surveyor at that time to verify the depths. The depths were converted from MGVD into actual depths. They tend to run as pretty much as the application stated in a range of approximately two to three feet. Being somewhat less then what is needed to bring an outboard in. MERLON WIGGIN: There was some confusion between the depths of what we are used to being in the water...INAUDIBLE. JOHN TUTHILL: Your last check shows three feet. Below water? MERLON WIGGIN: Yes, mean low of the depths were 2.3, 2.4. When you convert that to MGVD you add about 1.3 feet. JOHI~ TUTHILL: I understand you have reduced the length of this dredging some. MERLON WIGGIN: We have reduced it a long time ago. Unfortunately the set of drawings that you had at the first meeting was the ones that were back from last August. We have cut it down over half since that time and reduced the area. JOHN TUTHILL: How far out is it, that we are dredging now? MERLON WIGGIN: I goes out to the south approximately 280', I think it is. JOHN TUTHILL: Otherwise all the dredging is right around the marina itself. I have heard a lot of comments. I don't know if it is quit as much on the dredging. It looks with in reason, alright we have to work with everybody. I think where you are placing the spoil is got more comment from the average person. Maybe we ought to set these in two different places. We will probably here something about where you are putting the spoil and what it might do to people trying to launch boats. Board of Trustees 9 February 22, 1990 MERLON WIGGIN: We have changed the spoils several times from the input from the DEC, primarily, the Trustees and also the owners. We are in the position that we can still modify it again, if need be. We would like the input and suggestions from the Board. JOH~ TUTHILL: Can you tell us what you are planning now? MERLON WIGGIN: Right now the DEC has required to come back fifty feet from the edge of the parking lot from spring hide tide. We moved the spoil site back to the west. So it stops pretty much to the edge of Narrow River. It is twenty feet wide and has a trapezoid shape to it. We left room on the south and west side for access to vehicles. JOHN TUTHILL: We went down and looked at it we thought, I don't know what your measurements are, but there is a sign there. JOHN BREDEMEYER: There is a sign that indicates no dumping. JOHlq TUTHILL: Yes, no dumping and if you draw a line over to the number 12 post, we thought that would be the maximum that would be used. I understand that you have plans in there that if it did bother the people you got other things there. You might want to talk about them. MERLON WIGGIN: The owner will talk about some of those things and it would make it easier. If there are any questions we will try and answer them all. FRED DACIMO: I am glad you raised that as an issue. The only other thing I really have to add above and beyond what Jay and Merl said. When I looked at the way the area was staked out I felt that it effected the ability of the guys who use that ramp to turn. That is not what I really want to do. As a result of having to move it in fifty feet, I guess that is still under some discussion. My feelings are that we have two perfectly good ramps at Narrow River Marina. One is paved and the other one is crushed stone. As far as I am concerned for the amount of time that spoils are at that site anyone who can legitimately use the Town ramp would be welcome to use the ramps at my marina, obviously no charge. They can use the parking lot to park cars and trailers. I don't have a problem with that. As a matter of fact I feel an obligation to provide those facilities for the people who want to use the ramp. Other then that, that is about it. JOHN TUTHILL: How long to expect the spoil to be there? FRED DACIMO: We are required not to exceed sixty days. Obviously would not exceed the sixty days. We would probably be done less time then that. What I am telling this Board is that as long as the spoil dredge is there, the guys who use the ramp will have the opportunity to use the ramp on my property. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Is there anyone who wishes to speak in behalf of this matter? STEWART HORTON: Stewart Horton, Main Road, Orient. Since we met last time to consider this project, I became a member of the ...Citizens and Hallock Committee to look into the overall situation, which I have done to some degree. I am not going to touch on the economics or the spoil areas or the general civil disputation that might come out of this. I am approaching primarily, even though I am in favor of this project as it is turned out in my own mind, for the health of Hallocks Bay. B~ard of Trustees 10 February 22, 1990 That is my primary concern. The bay has suffered some gross indignities over the last twenty years and I have touched on those before. Basically because of a very poor agricultural and perhaps land use practices. This area where the marina is, at the out fall of Narrow River. Narrow River takes the uplands through four condiments. Five if you include fluid at the upper end of Narrow River coming out of Fraud Meadow. Fraud meadow doesn't really contribute that much because it is a fairly good siphoning system. The last 50 probably 60 years, as long as I can remember from a child on, you have had after heavy rain storms, a very muddy and disturbed conditions in Narrow River going out into the harbor itself. Of course in those days, the farmers for one reason or another were not using lands. Everything that was on those lands of course went out in the bay. Primarily in the form of water and silt. As far north as the woods on the Sound. Crossing the main highway at Brown's Hill Road and down by the State Sump, where Bob Scott. We lost Hallok's Bay Steamers, Grass Shrimp, a couple of crabs for about twenty years. From the middle sixties to probably about three or four years ago. They have come back. The question is, is this project going to be beneficial or is it going to be detrimental to the ongoing situation within Hallok's Bay. Thank God we are not using the chemicals, pesticide and fertilizers we did back in the early sixties. I see Hallok's Bay is beginning to clear itself. On this committee I did some measuring with Mr. Doug Flemming, also of Orient. We went out when the tide was in about three quarters of an hour and we found in the area around the marina and out to the flag pole (outer marker there) an average depth of two feet for silt. At the pole it was two feet nine inches. Subsequently, it was done on the same day that the surveyor and the Town Constable were there. Subsequently to that I did some more mucking around up in Narrow River and off the landing to see how hard the bottom was and how far out you can. You don't go out to far before you hit that silt. Fifty feet in places. Twenty feet in other places as you go up Narrow River. You have a good two feet and probably more Orient top soil that has accumulated in silt form. Believe me, in my mind, as much dredging you can do to get rid of that. And believe me I am no proponent of dredging. I have always been against dredging in creeks or in bays, but dredging is a tool. In this case I think the bay itself is going to stand in good favor by taking out as much as that sediment as possible. I am just sorry you are not going all the way up to the end of Narrow River. I have as a member of the Gun Club and an officer of the Gun Club and vice president of the Gun club been in contact with members of the club and found no objection to any dredging based on this condition. That is restricted to the area in discussion and that now future dredging is going to take place between Brown's Point and Pete's Neck. At that point we all come down heavy with a hammer. That is my comments on the situation. JOPIN BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to speak in behalf of this application? ED WHITE: I am Ed White from Orient. I am president of the the Gun Club. I just want to reiterate what Stew Horton jus said. We B~ard of Trustees 11 February 22, 1990 are in favor of this small dredging project. I think it is going to be good for the whole area. I am sorry to see, as Stew said, that it doesn't go up into Narrow River more. I don't want to see it go out past that one point the, hazardous marker. I think he was very cooperative in stopping at that point. He is stopping at the point that he should stop, going out into the bay. I can see know harm. I have talked with alot of fellows. We are all for it. I am sure there will be someone against it, like always. I can not see any harm in it. I speak for myself and I also speak for the Gun Club. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Anyone else wishing to speak on behalf of this application? STEVE LATSON: Steve Latson. Could we see a map? Can I show this to people? JOHN BREDEMEYER: Sure. STEVE LATSON: I am not for or against this project. I think that is kind of an erroneous format. What we recommended the two times that at the meeting last month, meaning the Baymen's Association and the North Fork Environmental Council, and at a meeting last June was not this. But rather have the edge of...I have clammed three times in this area. Until you get out to about where this dot is, you can't catch clam. It is a hard bottom. It gets a little soft. It gets hard again. You get trenches where dug out 2 or 3'. Then you hit good hard bottom again. What we have proposed is that the channel be over here, in this area. We are not opposed to these people dredging. We are opposed to this specific area. I don't know why they insist on dredging there. Since twice we asked them to dredge here instead. Here meaning to the south. In fact the line you have here really should be the northern edge of the channel. This is really the common sense place. I am glad the rod and gun club thinks this is o.k. We are not opposed to them dredging here. This is pretty dam good bottom. I am sure the rod and gun club hasn't done to much clamming. This is good bottom. Why not dredge in here where the bottom isn't good. JOHN TUTHILL: You are saying to move these to dots closer to the point? STEVEN LATSON: I am saying move it so the edge of the channel, this is the northern edge of the channel not the southern edge of the channel. JOHN TUTHILL: How about further into that channel. Where the other dot is? STEVEN LATSON: I might cut off the last forty or fifty feet, because I know for a fact when you come in here you don't hit bottom until right about where that dot is. Basically I would draw a line right abut here. This channel should be here not there. This is all good bottom. JOHN BREDEMEYER: In other words you are saying that the approach should be to the southerly... STEVEN LATSON: I am saying that this should be one side of the channel and this should be the other side of the channel. Out to about here. JOHN BREDEMEYER: I see what you are saying. STEVEN LATSON: I don't see what the difference is. Board of Trustees 12 February 22, 1990 I am saying this looks like it is going out a little to far. JOHN TUTHILL: You are saying put out to here... STEVEN LATSON: Not put it here. I clammed three times this summer right out to there and then I went all the way across. JOHN TUTHILL: How about from here to there. Like this. RITCHIE LATHAM: Why do you keep over to this? STEVEN LATSON: This isn't a maintenances project. This is a new dredging project. ALL TALKING AT ONCE. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Let's get back into some settlement of a usual course here. The tape is running and no one is going to figure out what is going on. Steve are you finished? STEVEN LATSON: In conclusion, the line I showed at the southern edge of the channel should be the northern edge of the channel. The channel should obviously go to the south of that edge. In other words the element is incorrect. I think it goes out forty or fifty feet out beyond where it needs to go. HENRY SMITH: I think we got two voices opinion. Stew Horton just said they want to get more of that silt. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. Anybody for or against? PETER WENCZEL: Peter Wenczel, President of the Baymen's Association. I just want to reiterate Steve's co~¢~,ents. We feel that the dredging should be moved away from the hard bottom by the ramp. There shouldn't be any dredging up to the ramp. That area should be left alone. The channel should be out by soft bottom. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. PETER WENCZEL: I personally have never clammed there, but other baymen have. They have personally reassured me that right off the ramp is good bottom. It would be a crime to disturb it. Thank you. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Anyone else? RITCHIE LATHAM: Ritchie Latham. I agree with what has been said about moving it. I think it is a good idea. Keep away from the ramp. All the baymen I know of clam around the ramp. They want it left alone. I talked with Mr. Dacimo. I had a nice talk with him. I am not against the thing. I don't want to stop him from cleaning up his place there so he can serve the people better. One of the baymen said that if the area is closed to shellfishing and you take all this spoil and put it on the parking lot and it runs right back into the water. Something doesn't sound right there. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Now one has suggested that the spoil is poison per say. RITCHIE LATHAM: You are not allow to shellfish there. JOHN BREDEMEYER: The shellfish ban inside the marina is based on a public health protection measure which comes directly out of some new rules the DEC is imposing. It is not a result of in water quality that they are actually monitoring. Inside the marina, it is a blanket prohibition. All the marinas now have it. Probably the swans are the biggest problem down there now for water quality. There leavings whether it is on the bottom or on the spoils or whatever, is the most detrimental thing going. This closure that they have there is not a result of "poison or Board of Trustees 13 February 22, 1990 high coliform count presently. The DEC has not given any indication that they even give it serious concern at this point. RITCHIE LATHAM: It was a point that was brought up to me. JO~N BREDEMEYER: It is a valid point. Particularly when people look at marinas and see it is closed to shellfishing in the marina. Logical question is why is closed. It is purely a protective mechanism. This marina has a prohibition against heads. There are other marinas that might have heads. Heads have a possibility of discharge. RITCHIE LATHAM: The other thing is if Mr. Dacimo is willing to have people park on his property why not put the spoil there? JOHN BREDEMEYER: That matter is one that has come up before to the Trustees. The original pezmissions were given from the Town Board for the use of the ramp. There is certainly a public benefit here because the Town has little money for dredging projects. As far as public policy is concerned the Trustees have embraced a policy of not allowing the dredging of the entrance to Hallocks Bay. Over time it would be nice to think that we can get baymen and recreational boaters with there small boats in and out with some convenience. I think this is the public benefit side of it. I can't speak for the Town Board members, but I know how I feel as a Trustee. The public benefit side of it may have had something to do with permitting the spoil on the ramp. It does permit an improvement that the whole Town can enjoy. RITCHIE LATHAM. O.K. If you move it down,I have now objections. HENRY SMITH: Getting back to the spoil site Mr. Latham is when Narrow River first approached us about this project, we wouldn't even entertain there application until they came to use with an approved spoil site. That was the approved spoil site. They worked it out with the Town Board, the Highway Department, the DEC and everyone else. After they got that spoil site approved then we entertained there dredging permit. If we were to know change the spoil site, say on his property across the street, they would basically be back to square one again. I think this is something they had to do before we would entertain this part of the permit. RITCHIE LATHAM: O.K. HENRY SMITH: There is no sense in them coming to ask us to dredge if they have no place to put this stuff. There was no way we were going to give them a permit unless they did have an approve spoil site. RITCHIE LATHAM: Are you going to vote on this permit tonight. JOHlq BREDEMEYER: We have to have comments from all concerned here. There maybe individuals wishing to speak for the issue. RITCHIE LATHAM: Are you taking written comments for a while or not? JOHN BREDEMEYER: I had hoped since there has been so much community participation, I would hope to lead the Board into a vote tonight. Possible try to include as much as the comments that we have heard. I think the baymens concerns are well warranted. I know there has been some original problems of communication. I don't see why we can not come to a conclusion here. Unless there is some unforeseen item that has yet to come B6ard of Trustees 14 February 22, 1990 before the Board that another member of the public would bring to our attention. Anyone else wish to speak? MERLON WIGGIN: Perhaps i can answer some of the questions as far as the location of the dredging. Before we started this application we had conference on the site with a representative of the Trustees, DEC, and the Corp. of Engineer's. At that time the suggestion was made to try and include dredging out close to the public ramp providing a public service as well as taking care of the problem inside the marina itself. Also the DEC has been very invadic, they want to keep that channel out further from the west point land. Also, I know there has been questions about where the hard bottom is, where the soft bottom is and how far it should go. We have had several surveys. We have had the surveyors up there on several occasions. We went back to the bay constable and a representative of the Orient people just to verify that we did have the depths right. That we did have where the silting started. Sometimes because it is so soupy and soft when the surveyor takes his readings he has difficulty finding exactly where the bottom is. I know Mr. Horton was present when the bay constable went out there and helped verify depths. STEWART HORTON: I think I touched on that with my comments earlier. What we did was we made a device with a good flat base on a stick with three inch ... The bay constable and the surveyor and Mr. Seamore had something along the same lines. It was a push down apparatuses slanted to the silt. you couldn't go much further. Then we clocked the depths at that time. The tide had been coming in about three quarters of an hour at this point. The depths again throughout were just about two feet from the surface of the water to the silt. Until we got out to flag and there we counted 2'7", 2'9" and 2'10". Once you get off twenty yards you are in the silt. You are in the silt to the east of that area. It is just a matter of mechanics that over the years that is self accumulated. It is not made of Hallocks Bay bottom. Unfortunately that is a lot of upland that is gone. JOHN TUTHILL: Stewart, is it silt right up to this point here? JOHN BREDEMEYER: I kind of suspect that there is. I have eeled there at night. STEWART HORTON: There is silt right across in there. You don't want to try and wade around in there. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Is the DEC pushing the channel away because of their owning that property and their fears of encroachment? ALL TALKING AT ONCE. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. We are getting off track again. Anyone else? RITCHIE LATHAM: Is this going to be monitored? JOHN BREDEMEYER: Yes, through inspections by the bay constable. Law enforcement. MIKE MOONEY: Mike Mooney. North Fork Water Front Contractors. As a Contractor I am interested in this job. I think mo~ing the channel you are going to run into one major problem with the boaters that are going to try to use this facility. Right now to get in and out of the basin you are going to make such a hard turn. You are really restricting the amount of dredging. Making the channel very narrow. It would be very awkward for anybody to Board of Trustees 15 February 22, 1990 come in to the south of that channel. Make a ninety degree turn and then make a hundred and eighty degree turn to get back into that basin. The way it is set up right now, you are setting it up, it is the easiest for the flow of navigation. If you are going to make it easy and benefit the people, you have to make it the easiest way to do it. Not make a snake channel to come in and out. That doesn't make any sense if you are trying to help the public. JOH/q TUTHILL: That is why Steve's plan is not practical. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Fred, could you and Merl come up here for a minute. Steve's plan did not look so unreasonable. I just want to run it past you before we conclude the hearing. I think what Steve was hoping that you could put this portion over here. He was allowing for a cut for navigation on this side. FRED DACIMO: We couldn't come this way as a result of being close to this point. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Because the DEC says no. FRED DACIMO: They made that clear. HENRY SMITH: They made that clear. FRED DACIMO: I think Steve new that when he was at my house that day, when I explained it. JOHN BREDEMEYER: What if this is limited here to the width coming in and then the same width to access? FRED DACIMO: No problem. JOHN BREDEMEYER: What if you reduce the width to the access with the same width. FRED DACIMO: I could certainly with this. I have no problem with that. STEVE LATSON: Why can't you cut this over here so that everybody has plenty of room to go through here. At least 60 or 70, 80 feet and just come out here? Why do you have to go in here? FRED DACIMO: Because it is too shallow here. Boats run aground. STEVE LATSON: No. Why not here. FRED DACIMO: Because the DEC won't let us come close to here. HENRY SMITH: The DEC was very specific. STEVE LATSON: Coastal Management will tell you never, never take out habitat bottom. That is before you start to talk about public access. MERLON WIGGIN: We know. We have had people out there. STEVEN LATSON: This area has. I can call up the coastal zone management and explain to them that their policy that says.. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. We don't have to get in to that. Anyone else? The initial co~,t.ents from the CAC were for disapproval prior to scaling the project down. There is a note here with respect to scallop spawning. Temperatures of ten degrees centigrade or more would be required so that the scallop spawn wouldn't smother. By the time this does go the water temperatures will be at or near ten degrees centigrade before the inception of the project. I don't believe that would be a problem. It is with in the confines of the basin so it shouldn't have an effect on the scalloping. Anyone else? Being no further comments we will close the hearing in the matter of Narrow River Marina. ALL AYES. B~ard of Trustees 16 February 22, 1990 It is now 8:17. With respect to the application Proper-T Services on behalf of Rita Martin, Maiden Lane, Mattituck, N.Y. to construct a walkway WALTER SMITH: You got away from me. May I say a few words on Narrow River? JOHN BREDEMEYER: The hearing is closed if you could make a very brief comment we can attach it. WALTER SMITH: O.K. I am Walter Smith. You mentioned the The other thing of interest is that, as Horton as said, as this sediment has come down from the farms. The fa£mers in the past have used a lot of arsenic, a lot of mercury, and a lot of other materials. Has any analysis been made of this sediment. If right now it is locked there in the bottom, it is not going to cause much difficulty. If we start pushing it up and spreading it over the bay, are we going to have a problem. My feeling is has a chemical analysis been done of this sediment, so we know exactly what it contains. The farmers are notorious in spreading over the years Arsenic, Mercury and other insecticides. This is draining into Narrow River. Narrow River has more of a pumping action, a flushing action. These metals could be there in the sediment. I am not saying they are. It is something that should be looked at and looked at very closely before we put a big mound of it up and then have it slowly seep down into the bay. We should know what we are doing from a chemical point of view. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. Thank you. No, the hearing is closed. This could go on for ever and ever. I think that those of you who already had appertunity to speak. Professor Smith went after the bell. I think it was bad of me to include additional comments after the hearing. This Board try's to get as much involvement during the process. The hearing, we afforded everyone an opportunity to speak and speak repeatedly. THOMAS SAMUELS: Jay, can we just report on our solution (Susan Kwit)? JOHN BREDEMEYER: Sure. THOMAS SAMUELS: It will just take one second. Larry was familiar with the original bulkhead behind the one in question. We now feel we can remove this bulkhead and replace the new one in place. I will talk to the Kwit's. I will send a letter to you modifying the permit for En-Consultants. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Thank you very much. O.K. Next hearing is in the matter of Rita Martin, Maiden Lane, Mattituck, to construct a walkway 30' X 4' with steps; hinged ramp 12' X 4' floating dock 12' X 5'; install two piles to secure floating dock. There is a submission to amend the application which we received yesterday I believe. Are the dimensions different? I didn't have the chance to review it. JAMES FITZGERALD: The walkway is now three feet wide. To take advantage of your bargain rates. JOHN BRRDEMEYER: Good. JAMES FITZGERALD: It is parallel to the property to the property line. The Corp. of Engineers were concerned about it being Board of Trustees 17 February 22, 1990 within fifteen feet of the extension of the west property line. They could do it on a general permit if we could move it over. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Fine. That is also Trustee policy. JAMES FITZGERALD: The float is the same distance from the shore line. The North way is parallel. It is longer and narrower. JOHN BREDEMEYER: That should also please the operator of the Matta-Mar Marina who is very concerned about navigation. I included the usual caveat that we would still have control over navigation if a problem arose after construction. O.K. Does anyone of the Trustees have any questions. We should take a look at the amendment before we take action on it. Are there any other persons wishing to address this application. Being no further comment we will close the hearing in the matter of Rita Martin. HENRY SMITH: How far is this going to be from the next dock? 200' JO~IN BREDEMEYER: No. It is closer than that but it is not a problem. HENRY SMITH: I don't think there is. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. In the matter of the wetlands applications, we can vote on these applications at this time. Starting with Nunnakoma waters. HENRY SMITH: I make a motion that we approve Nunnakoma Water Association for there dredging project as stated in there application. JOHlq BEDNOSKI: Second. JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in favor? ALL AYES. HENRY SMITH: I make a motion that we approve Hay Harbor Club as it is written in the application. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Second. ALL AYES HENRY SMITH: I make motion that we approve Robert S. Koebele to add to an existing float as his application so states. JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second. All AYES. HENRY SMITH: I make a motion for Joeseph Perricone that we approve his application as it is presented to us. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Second. ALL AYES. HENRY SMITH: I make a motion that we approve David Winkler Beebe Drive on his dock as it is stated in his application. JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second. ALL AYES. HENRY SMITH: I make a motion on William Wickham, Old Harbor Road to.replace bulkhead in same location as stated in his application. JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second. ALL AYES. Board of Trustees 18 February 22, 1990 HENRY SMITH: I make motion John Lockwood, Old Harbor Road to remove and replace his bulkhead and dredging in same location as his application so states. JOH~ BEDNOSKI: SECOND. ALL AYES. HENRY SMITH: I make a motion to approve Susan Kwit to replace in kind/in place. The application says to replace within one foot but this will be in kind/in place. JOHN BREDEMEYER: We have yet received the letter I think we should look on the application because in kind/in place is permit except and I don't think they are dredging. I don't believe there is an application to dredge with this. We will have to check the application and make sure the others include dredging which requires a permit. In this case the applicant working out the mutual solution will be money in there pocket. JOH~ BEDNOSKI: Second. ALL AYES. HENRY SMITH: Sy Stahl, West Road, Cutchogue to replace existing bulkhead as so stated in his permit. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Second. ALL AYES. HENRY SMITH: Wayne Monson, Smith Drive for his dock in front of his bulkhead as so stated. JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second. ALL AYES: HENRY SMITH: Narrow River Road Marina as so stated in there latest survey (February 7, 1990) that they have worked on with the Orient people and and marina people as stated in there application. JOHN TUTHILL: I think the one thing he said on this is that it is a case that everybody has put a lot of attention into. It certainly a lot of interest to everybody out in Orient. It looks like everybody has tried hard to come to some kind of a agreement with everybody. They haven't changed it 100% but I think it is not as far out as originally intended. They are working hard on putting the spoil and finally the DEC is holding up a little from dredging from where ever the baymen would like to dredge so I kind of feel that it is a case were all people involved are trying hard to cooperate. I will second it. HENRY SMITH: I agree. I think people worked hard on this marina, owners, the people of Orient put there time and effort in to try and work out a deal. JOHN BREDEMEYER: I would like to add some comment for discussion now that the motion is seconded. I think that if there is a possibility the DEC could move the channel to the southerly and incorporate the comments of the Baymens Association we should. It is in keeping with the Coastal Zone Policy. It is good DEC policy, good Trustee policy to try to avoid as much as practical, the shellfish beds. As a long range policy that it should be noted that the marina already has a "no head" rule I Board of Trustees 19 February 22, 1990 would like to see it incorporated in a restrictive covenant in perpetuity for this site give the important of shellfisheries there. They are already doing it. They seem committed to doing the right thing so I would like to see that formalized in something that forms with the land. That is what I would like to have included in the motion. If it is impractical to move the channel and the DEC won't alter their position then let the current plan we have stand. To the maximum extent practical I would like to accommodate the the Baymen on this. HENRY SMITH: O.K. You can put that in my former motion. JOHN TUTHILL: I will agree with that. ALL AYES. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Seeing that there is a limited dredge window I would request that the tentative language on the restrictive covenant be handled expeditiously through the Town Attorney. At least getting the memorandum of intent on file with the Town Attorney prior to filing. PETER WENCZEL: I just want ask, are you going to dredge up to the ramp? JOHN BREDEMEYER: No, the plan is ten feet off the end of the ramp. In other words as per access the channel as proposed , no. As Steve said try to get the access channel to the marina to the south as much as possible. The plan as submitted goes only to ten feet off the concrete base of the ramp. The slope will start there to the four feet below mean low water. You could probably launch a twenty foot boat and still maintain very similar slope to the ramp. It would probably end up being almost identical to the current slopes on out when you bring it out. PETER WENCZEL: It essentially the same thing, John. JOHN BREDEMEYER: It essentially the same. It will look very much like the ramp when you extend it. O.K. Just to r~cap that, a motion was made and seconded and amended to include a C&R for no heads and to move the access portion of the channel to the marina to the southerly most end if agreeable by the DEC. Vote of the Board: ALL AYES. HENRY SMITH: Next one on Rita Martin. I make a motion that we approve the application with the stipulation that the walkway be changed to three feet and to make the float parallel to and fifteen feet off the property line. JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second. ALL AYES. JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. If there be no objection I would move that the Board take a five minute recess before going back on the regular agenda. ALBERT KRUPSKI: I will second that. Meeting was resumed. V. MOORINGS: Board of Trustees 20 February 22, 1990 A motion was made by JOHN TUTHILL and seconded by JOHN BEDNOSKI to approve the Mooring renewals for March. VI. COMMUNICATIONS: 1. Letter from Bertram Walker, RE: Richard Zeidler application. VII. LEAD AGENCY: JOHN BREDEMEYER: There has been coordinated actions with other agencies and they have no objections with us taking lead. HENRY SMITH: O.K. I will make a motion we take the Lead on Antonio Perez, Erika Swi~u,er, and Edward Deutsch. JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second. ALL AYES. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Just in passing does the Board wish to go on record that we are going for automatic lead. That if we receive communications from the other agencies that we would go immediately to assessments and that we don't do formal lead resolutions. In other words we can do a standing resolution that the communication between the Health Department, the DEC, the Army Corp. where they agree in letting us take the lead would be sufficient in the file to constitute lead agency. JOEN TUTHILL: It is alright with me. JOHN BEDNOSKI: Sure. HENRY SMITH: There is no problem with that because we are going to take it anyway. JOHN BREDEMEYER: Alright fine. VIII.ASSESSMENTS/ENVIRONMRNTAL DECLARATIONS: 1. John H. Geideman a on behalf of Leander Glover to construct a 25' X 4' dock a 3' X 10' ramp and 2 - 6' X 20' floats. Located in Cutchogue. A motion was made by HENRY SMITH and seconded by JOEN BRRDEMEYER to grant a Negative Declaration. ALL AYES. 2. Thomas E. Coffin to install a 4' X 40' float dock along an existing timber bulkhead and to maintenance dredge a 10' X 60' area of dredged canal to 4' at MLW. The resultant spoil, approximately 90 c.y. of sand shall be trucked to an upland disposal site. Location of project is Gull Pond Lane, Greenport. A motion was made by HENRY SMITH and seconded by JOHN BEDNOSKI to grant a Negative Declaration. ALL AYES. 3. Proper-T Services in behalf of Constantinos Markotsis to replace 90 1.f. of bulkhead with new bulkhead 18" to seaward of old bulkhead; extend bulkhead 20'; relocate walkway, floating dock to approximately 3' at low water. This is down on Williamsburg, off Main Bayview. We received the amended application as requested with one change. That was to try and save a mature tree that was there so that the return extends Board of Trustees 21 February 22, 1990 some additional 10'. To maintenance dredge to the existing depth of the channel off the bulkhead so that they are not creating a hole. (amendment) approved the bulkhead replacement in kind/in place and not the 18" as submitted. Allow addition same level current bulkhead and truck away excess fill. It was moved to accept the amended application and to stipulate replace in place and not extend the bulkhead 20' as per plan submitted and dated February 12, 1990. A motion was made by JO~N BEDNOSKI and seconded by HENRY SMITH to grant a Negative Declaration. ALL AYES. 4. J.M.O. Consulting in behalf of Southold Shores Boat Basin, Inc. to enlarge an existing docking facility by the installation of (2) 5' X 20' floats and (5) 3' X 18' floats. This project is located on Blue Marlin Drive, Southold. To fill the Board in this application had been sent back for numerous items to clarify and we have gotten answers to all the questions that have been asked. After discussion a motion was made by a HENRY SMITH and seconded by JOHN BREDEMEYER to grant a Negative Declaration based on the amended maps. ALL AYES. X. GRANDFATHER: Was done in beginning of meeting. XI. MISCELLANEOUS: Port of Egypt request for an Ice Permit to repair dock on Budd's Pond. A motion was made by HENRY SMITH and seconded by JOHN BEDNOSKI to grant an Ice Permit. The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m. by a motion made by JOHN BREDEMEYER and seconded by JOHN BEDNOSKI. RECEIVED AND FILED BY THE SOUTHOLD TOV;N CLF.~K DATE '~l L,' '~ !.'~''~HOUR!, Town Clerk, Town of Soutl:old