HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-06/21/1990 TRUSTEES
John M. Bredemeyer, III, President
Henry P. Smith, Vice President
Albert J. Krupski, Jr.
John L. Bednoski, Jr.
John B. Tuthill
Telephone (516) 765-1892
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SCOTF L. HARRIS
Supervisor
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-1823
Telephone (516) 765-1800
MINUTES OF MEETING HELD ON JUNE 21, 1990 at 7 P.M.
PRESENT WERE:
John M. Bredemeyer, III, President
Albert J. Krupski, Jr. Trustee
John L. Bednoski, Jr. Trustee
John H. Tuthill, Trustee
Jill Thorp, Clerk
WORKSESSION was held at 6:00 PM.
MEETING CALLED TO ORDER at 7:00 PM.
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
Next Trustee Board Meeting: Thursday, July 26, 1990 at 7:00 PM.
Worksession: at 6:00 PM.
Field Inspections: Tuesday, July 17, 1990 at 8:00 AM.
MONTHLY REPORT:
Trustees' monthly report for MAY: A check for $3,421.06
was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General
Fund.
II.
PUBLIC NOTICES:
Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin
Board for review.
III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES:
1. Edward Tashjian- Request a waiver to construct a new,
private, 26' X 26' frame garage/storage structure situated on
coastal wetlands adjacent area. Structure will be approximately
70' from the upward edge of wetlands based on measurements taken
at the MHW line and most seaward corner of the proposed
structure. Property located at 4955 Stillwater Avenue,
Cutchogue.
A motion was made by JOHN TUTHILL and seconded by ALPERT
KRUPSKI to approve a waiver with the stipulation that dry wells
are placed to contain the runoff.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 2 June 21, 1990
2. Charles King- Request a waiver to black top an area of
1,314. sq.ft. Property located at 200 East Mill Road,
Mattituck. Mattituck Creek.
A motion was made by JOHN BEDNOSKI and seconded by ALPERT
KRUPSKI to approve the waiver subject to grading towards the dry
well.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
3. Bernard Kiernan- Request amendment of pezmit #483 to
change the length of the dock from 60' to 70' to gain adequate
water depth. Property located on North Parish Drive, Southold.
A motion was made by ALPERT KRUPSKI and seconded by JOHN
BEDNOSKI to approve the amendment.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
4. David Winkler- To amend permit 93798 to add a second 6'
X 20' float to gain adequate water depth. Beebe Drive,
Cutchogue. Applicant is also requesting a mooring to be
placed in front of this dock on East Creek.
A motion was made by JOHN BEDNOSKI and seconded by JOHN
TUTHILL to table both applications to gather more information as
the surrounding boats would be in the way.
5. Frances N. Frisbie- to construct a shed 10' X 12' on
lot at Nassau Point Road, Nassau Point. The shed will be
set back approximately 250' from the lagoon.
Albert krupski inspected site and determined that this project
is out of Trustee jurisdiction.
7:25 P.M. - A motion was made by ALBERT KitUPSKI and seconded by
JOHN TUTHILL to move to Public Hearings.
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MA'i'TER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE
SUFFOLK TIMES AND AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE LONG
ISLAND TRAVELER-WATCHMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
7:25 P.M. - In the matter of the application of Gardiner Bay
Estates Home Owners Association to maintenance dredge an
existing boat channel (1100' X 20') to maximum depth of 4' below
the plane of MLW. Property is located on Spring Pond, East
Marion. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of
the application?
LARRY MATZEN- of Gardiners Bay. I am a homeowner there and
I applied for that application. We have a ten year permit from
the army. A five year from the DEC, to replace, tens years that
we had before and it had expired. Basically, it is the same as
before. What we want from you would be about three hundred feet
and about under five hundred cubic yards.
Board of Trustees 3 June 21, 1990
ALBERT KRUPSKI: When did this application come in? When did you
apply for this?
LARRY MATZEN: I think it was May or June of 88.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Anyone else wishing to speak on this
application? The intervening for the initial application...did
it take that long to get DEC and Army Corp. current approvals?
LARRY MATZEN: Yes. Just last month we received the Army.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: And the spoil site the historic spoil site that
you have used on the current?
LARRY MATZEN: Only on the east side. The DEC would not allow
the west side.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Have you ever had any Tern nesting on your
spoil site after you have placed soil?
LARRY MATZEN: No.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Just on the off chance that you would have it,
you might want to notify the DEC some Spring if you did see them
show up, so that they corded the area up to protect the birds.
LARRY MATZEN: No, the kids run through it.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Too much activity.
WARREN SAMBACH: There is a lot of activity there from the
Spring to the Fall.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. Are there any other questions or
co~,~,ents? If there are no further comments we will make a
motion to close the hearing.
A motion was made by ALBERT KRUPSKI and seconded by JOHN TUTHILL
to close the public hearing.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
A motion was made by JOHN TUTHILL and seconded by JOHN
BEDNOSKI to approve this application to dredge.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: The next application is in the matter of East
End Seaport & Marine Historical Foundation to reconstruct
historic lighthouse constructed in 1870 and destroyed in 1963.
Located at rock foundation 650 yards SW of Long Beach Point.
JOHN TUTHILL: What did we have to do with this? It seems
strange to me that we are involved.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: We are involved because the depth of water
around old light house is no longer the eight to ten feet that
it use to be. It is less then five feet to bottom at mean low
water and it comes under the wetlands permits in the town. They
are not going to have any sanitary facilities nor any use. It
is going to be strictly a historic and signaling structure. Is
there anyone here to speak on behalf of this application?
Anyone here to speak against this application? As a matter of
record the Trustees' have already waived the fees on this
application. This is considered in the public interest. It
will not only be a beak in the mariners, it will be
reconstruction of the famous light house that was known as the
bug light that was there. It is quite an under taking. It is
probably one of the fastest, at least seems to be well on the
way in being one of the fastest light house renovations in the
east done strictly through private funding. It is a real nice
project for the area. In any case.
JOHN BEDNOSKI: Move to approve.
Board of Trustees 4 June 21, 1990
JOHN TUTHILL: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Ail in favor?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AI~ES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: We didn't close the hearing on that.
approved as part of the hearing. That is a first.
We
JOHN BREDEMEYER: The next application is Brent Bookmiller
to construct a single family dwelling, well and associated
sanitary system. Property located at Deep Hole Road, Mattituck.
Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on behalf of this
application? This application apparently may be on a lot which
is not a legal building lot. I have reviewed this aspect with
the Town Attorney and he said we strictly don't determine
buildability. We issue permits for wetlands and it is not
really...although in an ideal sense it might be nice 'that we
would look at everything as far as buildabilit¥ too. We
don't. He suggested since we have previously approved the
application on a prior permit and it is the same application
now, that if the Board does approve, that we put a disclaimer on
it that the Board does not determine buildability and that
this may not be used as a representation for any other Board as
to buildability or its applicable compliance with local zoning.
AI,RERT KRUPSKI: The only thing I want to check is to see if the
runoff was contained in dry wells.
BRUCE LOUCKA: Do you have our letter on it?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Yes.
BRUCE LOUCKA: We approved with stipulations.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I think you wanted a 45', we went for a 35'
buffer.
BRUCE LOUCKA: We came up with that because we said to move the
house further, go for a variance and move it closer to the road.
That way you can get a little more buffer in the back. Did we
say that in our letter?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: It didn't go into the specifics, but you might
have said it previously. Oh, yes you do. Site the house closer
to the road as much as zoning will allow.
BRUCE LOUCKA: Is there a 30' set back? Even if it is an
undersized lot?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: I don't know how that works.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I don't know. Do they have a DEC permit for
this?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: I don't know. They should have a proposed
dwelling with a 37' set back and 55' from M}{W on the original
map.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: We didn't feel that a really large buffer was
necessary there. We would like to see a large one where there
is a possibility of wild life habitat. In this case we are just
trying to prevent nutrients and material from entering the
creek. We are not really looking at this because it is built up
there. We are not really looking...
JOHN BREDEMEYER: We could request that it be located as close as
the existing zoning would permit. Then if it could actually go
all the way up closer to what existing structures are in the
Board of Trustees 5 June 21, 1990
area and they still have the issues of buildability to deal
with, I guess, through the Zoning Board and the Planning Board.
They indicate that they have DEC approval. I don't have a copy
of the permit. What is your pleasure.
JOHN TUTHILL: We are going to make the motion that we O.K. it
based on them getting a building permit?
JOHN BRRDEMEYER: Right, I would recommend that we move to
approved based on...subject to a disclaimer.
ALBERT Ki{UPSKI: What is the distance on the buffer?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Why don't we request that a minimum as
previously stated by the Board of Trustees as 35', no closer
than 35', and suggest that the structure be as close to the road
as permitted by zoning.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Sure.
JOHN TUTHILL: I make that motion.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Second.
JOH~ BREDEMEYER: O.K. We will do it in that form. No less than
35'
JOHN TUTHILL: Jay, when you right a letter like this, do you
send a copy to Building Department so it flags them?
JOPIN BREDEMEYER: I am going to send one to Building and Planning.
JOHN TUTHILL: They have to take action? It won't be like the
one we had that fell through the cracks?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: As a matter of fact this came through as a
referral from the Planning Board. They noticed that the lot was
not legal. I will add the disclaimer that this approval does
not extend to any buildability.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES. Also to close hearing.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: 7:36 p.m. In the matter of the application of
Docko, Inc. in behalf of Peter O. Crisp to construct 70 L.F.
of fixed wood dock and install an 8' X 20' floating dock,
including ramp and necessary support piles, waterward of high
tide line in Hay Harbor. Property located on Equestrian Avenue,
Fishers Island. This application I saw on the inspection last
month on Fishers. The requested additional length was so that
they don't have to dredge. We will not be able to make final
vote on this tonight because we have not received a report from
the special Bay Constable, John Clavin, who now has said
jurisdiction on navigation in Hay Harbor as well. We can
conduct the public hearing and close it, but we will have to
wait to vote on it until we hear what he says. I would wait on
that because I recommended that they put the dock out farther,
because at low tide they have no water under the dock as
planned. I don't know this Connecticut Engineering firm, I
don't know if they went over there and did their assessment at
high tide or what. But, when I was there you wouldn't even do a
canoe from this dock.
JOHN TUTHILL: Does one of us inspect all the things over there
eventually?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Eventually one of us inspects all of them. I
recommend to approve this, but I don't want to go over the
possible concerns of the special constable. Is there anyone
here who wishes to speak on behalf of this application for Peter
Board of Trustees 6 June 21, 1990
Crisp or against it? There being no comments I will close the
hearing in the matter of Peter Crisp.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: We still have to receive infoLmation. We
shouldn't close the hearing.
JO~N BREDEMEYER: We can close the hearing with that noted in the
record, that the Board will receive the report of the special
Bay Constable. Instead of recessing and having to re-advertise.
I think it is going to be no problem.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: O.K.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. is there a second.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: A motion to table the application pending the
special Bay Constable report.
ALPERT KRUPSKI: So moved.
JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in Favor?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: The time is now 7:38 and the next hearing we
have scheduled for 7:19 p.m. is in the matter of the application
of En-Consultants in behalf of Richard Zeidler to construct
90 L.F. of timber bulkhead extending northward from straight
section of existing bulkhead fronting Brushes Creek as shown on
map dated as revised May 2, 1990. Property fronts Brushes Creek
on unnamed road off MacDonald Road, Laurel. Is there anyone
here who wishes to speak on behalf of this application?
ROY HAJE: En-Consultants for the applicants Mr. and Mrs.
Zeidler who are also present here tonight. I just wanted to
check, you mentioned the last revision of May 2, 1990.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Yes.
ROY HAJE: There was a further revision on 5-14-90, which I think
you should have there. If I recall it is a minor one. To make
the set back to what we had purposed as a dredging area to
twenty feet.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Did you do this by letter to the involved
agencies.
ROY HAJE: Yes.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Do you have a copy of that that you can show
me, so I can find it more quickly.
ROY HAJE: Sure. You can compare it to the 5-2 copy and see the
difference. I think this is the difference. You see this twenty
feet? Does yours show that?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Twenty feet with the little cut out here.
Yes, it does but it has no 5-15 on it.
ROY HAJE: I don't know if I can tell what the difference was.
It was a very minor change.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Does this application still include the
dredging?
ROY HAJE: Yea, we had hoped
JOHN BREDEMEYER: That is what they are applying for, but I don't
know.
ROY HAJE: The cross section is different.
Board of Trustees 7 June 21, 1990
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Was the datum changed at all?
ROY HAJE: No, it was a different slope or something.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Actually, I think the slope is more in accord
here then what is in the field.
ROY HAJE: That was done before the County, so that has changed.
You can go on the 5-2. That is really very close.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. In speaking on behalf of the application
you wish to continue Mr. Haje?
ROY HAJE: Yes. There are two parts to it. One was the bulkhead
and one was the dredging. I don't think there is an objection
to the bulkheading itself. I think the objection stems from
the dredging aspect of it. As we had intended the material
which had formed that shoal in front came largely from the loss
of the back flow on Mr. Zeidler's property, which is rather
evident by the cut out eroded area. We had hoped to recapture
that to use for the back filling for this bulkhead. I
understand the situation has changed know that the County has
dredged. So all of that material might not now be present. If
there is any material in front of it, we would like the
opportunity to use whatever would be available to us in front.
We are aware of the view easement that the Walkers' hold. Mr.
Zeidler has indicated that a small Boston Whaler would be kept
at this site, which would not interfere with navigation, view
easement restriction. It would not be a wide boat. The main
purpose would be to control that erosion which is running pretty
rapid in that corner.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. Thank you Mr. Haje. Yes, Mr. Zeidler
you wish to speak.
RICHARD ZEIDLER: Seven years ago a appeared in front of the
Trustees' in the room on the other side. We got an approval to
put a dock in the same place that we are talking about now. At
that point I didn't feel I wanted to spend the money and a let
the thing go by the waste side. I have changed the plans of
this dock, whatever you want to call it - the bulkhead, three
times to try to satisfy yourselves, the DEC, the people next
door. I don't think that because I have a neighbor that is
unhappy with something that I do should create a hardship as far
as I am concerned. That soil that is down there, we have put
there not once but on three occasions. There is possibly enough
to be able to take and back fill it. There are two jogging
pieces that stick out into the water. I have said take that out
and extend a sixty foot dock to a ninety foot dock. I have
never seen anything like this in my life. If.. I happen to have
a floating dock for a 22' Boston Whaler and I intend to use the
floating dock where it is for my 22' Boston whaler. I have not
encroached on their easement. I don't know whether they have
easement over your water, but I know this, my dirt is in your
water. I would like to get some of that dirt back and be able
to put a bulkhead there. Believe me, this is ridiculous. Thank
you.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Is there anyone else who wishes to
speak with respect to this application?
MR. WALKER: Hi, I am Mr. Walker. As far as Mr. Zeidler
speaking about the dirt placed there three times, he had nothing
Board of Trustees 8 June 21, 1990
at all to hold the dirt back. The Town was wrong in giving him
the O.K. to put the dirt there. There is no longer dirt there.
When they came in and they dredged there is no longer dirt or
sand there. If they took a sample of where the clay, where the
bottom of that, the depth of the creek, they would find out that
they couldn't take anymore then a foot or so. Now since that
dredge has been in we have lost all that sand that has come in.
It isn't the sand that he has lost, it is the sand that has been
coming in from the eastern end of Peconic Bay. Every Winter
we have the bad storms, it comes in. Because of that bulkhead
that he has, it comes around and goes into his spot. He has
been there probably for seven years. I don't know the amount of
time that Mr. Zeidler has been there, but the condition has
been the same since he came there. Now in the beginning if he
wanted to correct, he should have put the bulkhead in then. I
don't want to see the bottom of the creek disturbed. If you
come down now, I ask the Trustees to come down, you can see the
clay laying right at the shore line.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: I saw. I was down...
MR. WALKER: There is no excuse for digging down four feet. Now,
Mr. Samuels put in three bulkheads on the other side. He never
took any away. The people can still put there Boston Whaler
there at high tide. Because actually Samuels left more dirt and
sand and such when he finished then what was there in the
beginning. They had no idea of going down four feet. They are
happy the way they are. We do have a basin...(changed
tape)...Thank you.
JOH~ BREDEMEYER: Mr. Zeidler.
MR. ZEIDLER: I think if you look at the permit that we are
asking for we are actually taking and bringing a dock six foot
in from where the surveyor says our property line is. Not six
foot out from the ridge of the asphalt.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: The bulkhead your talking about?
MR. ZEIDLER: That is exactly right. If we don't put a bulkhead
in, there is a road there that belongs to ten families, that
will erode and do the same thing.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Yes, Mrs. Walker.
MRS. WALKER: First of all I want to say that it is a shame that
it took three revisions to where it should have been. The first
two where against the easement. Secondly, we have no objections
to the bulkhead if it is done correctly. The dredging is up to
you. You know how to protect the bottom. The eye view easement
is our concern. Mr. Zeidler just mentioned that bringing the
bulkhead in the way it is now is bringing it six foot in. That
means six foot of that which will be water is within in our eye
view easement. And there lies our concern that something riding
at the bulkhead is now going to be within our eye view
easement. A Boston Whaler I grant you is nothing, but who is to
say that a Boston Whaler is going to stay there. A larger boat
may end up there. What we would like to do, certainly go ahead
with the bulkheading, we would like you to reiterate in your
permit and have it worded so "The construction and use of this
bulkhead be kept within the confines of the deeded and recorded
eye view easement". This would preclude any loose
Board of Trustees 9 June 21, 1990
interpretation suggesting your decision migates this deed and it
would also absolve you from any responsibility or liability
should it end up in the courts by the present or future owners.
After all, if this house is on the market and it is sold, what
transpires here has to be applicable to assigns as well and
therefore the protection to us has to be able to go from one to
the other. Certainly we do not wish to get into more litigation
with the new owner, if indeed there ever is one. We feel very
strongly that if you word this permit clearly, it should
eliminate the possibility of ever having to go into courts.
This is where it would go. You know that our concern for the
dredging is that it would under mine our bulkheading that is
adjacent to it. Since you feel that that would already...what
is taken going down to the creek bed apparently you had decided
the last time that there was to be now dredging anyway. The
reference to something of May 14, 1990 would have been prior to
the meeting, which was May 24, 1990.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: We apparently never got a ... there was a
slight revision in the plan. We are not going by that. That is
a none issue.
MRS. WALKER: We never did want to be unreasonable. When you say
three, as you know it took three to get it back to where it was
supposed to be. Now we leave it in your hands.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Thank you. Mr. Zeidler?
Mr. Zeidler: Mrs. Walker talks about the cost. We actually
had to go to court to take the Walkers on because they tried to
steal a road that belonged to ten families. That is what
started all of this.
Everyone talking at once.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Unless we have any other aspects of material to
application before us, the Trustees have enough problems with
clear thought they don't need any encumbrances. Mr. Haje?
MR. HAJE: I would just like to say that I think that Mrs.
Walkers' suggestion that the permit that you issue make clear
reference is excellent both for there protection and the
Zeiders' I don't see that Mr. Zeidler would have any
objection to it, since he intends all a long to adhere to the
conditions view easement and not to violate that. To reinforce
that in the permit is perfectly acceptable to us. I am sure Mr.
Zeidler would agree to that as well.
JOHlq BREDEMEYER: I am just going to put a hypothetical out.
This is not to necessarily run verbatim, but the Walkers' is a
primary interveners here. If it is plan that a permit comes out
from this department stating that we will affirm that eye view
easement and you have that existing. I don't know if the Board
has strong feelings against the dredging other then to help you
to protect that easement. Clearing, if it is documented that
the eye view easement will be protected as affirmed in a permit,
the applicant, his agent are saying that they are willing to
abide by it. Would you have a problem with the dredging?
MR. WALKER: Wait a minute. You had stated at the last meeting
that you would not allow it because of the creek bottom. Are you
reversing your...
Board of Trustees 10 June 21, 1990
JOH~ BREDEMEYER: There was no vote on to it. There was a
general discussion, our general sentiments. There was no
affirmative vote of the Board on that issue. This is very
hypothetical at this point.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I think the Board should get into a discussion.
MRS. WALKER: But when you were out there inspecting it, you did
confirm the fact that ...
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I think you should use the microphone. We
should keep this orderly because this is going to get out of
hand and to personal. We are not going to get anywhere.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Alright, lets...
ROY HAJE: Can I just c~,~ent on the dredging. In response to
the Walkers' concerns we modified the dredging to keep away from
that rip rap wall minimum of twenty feet with the dredging. I
think that would be addiquite safeguard to prevent any damage to
that wall.
ALRERT KRUPSKI: I will make a comment. I think as far as the
dredging goes, I don't think it is, personally I don't think he
could ever say that that soil is actually Mr. Zeidlers', Mr.
Walkers', anybody's down the road. It was placed there. It was
washed there. I think we would say it was Trustees' soil. I
don't think you could prove that it was placed there by any one
individual and as far as recovering.., then you get into
removing Trustee land. I think that would get into a whole
different story. I think as far as keeping a boat there I don't
think that is the wisest discission. It has been our knowledge
before this evening that Mr. Zeidler has boat space further
down and he is not being denied access to the water for a boat.
I think just because of narrowness of the channel and the
possibility of a navigational problem, I don't see where the
dredging is necessary. I think the bulkhead is a good idea to
remove the zig zag into making the area safer, but I don't
see where a boat there is such a good idea. Dredged or not.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: I have got a question for Mr. Haje, since you
are still at the microphone. Would this be a barge and crane
job or would this be land based? Do you have any idea?
ROY HAJE: Land based crane.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: It would be a land based crane. The reason I
ask that is because the question of recovering material without
dredging, you have the issue that there is sand and material all
a long the bulkhead further south and if there was a need to
recover on site, it wouldn't result in dredging of the creek.
The Board is not inclined to go with the dredging on this
application. I don't think we are against maybe trying to
recover some material here, also since there seems that there
has been a wash out at some point. Not saying who's material is
who's here.
MR. ZEIDLER: Can I ask one more question? Let me but my
bulkhead where my property line is then I have taken care of the
view easement. I am not looking to put my boat there. I am
looking to clean something up. If I put my bulkhead where my
property line is, then there is no question that I do not have
to dig out in the front because I am in the water.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: So you are asking now to amend you permit.
Board of Trustees 11 June 21, 1990
MR. ZEIDLER: To put it on my property line. That is not on my
property line.
JO~IN BREDEMEYER: The only question there would reside with this
Board is the fact if you held clear title on that line. We
would claim that that is probably Trustee land and you would be
in a position where you would have to have a title search done
proving clear title to 1676. It is a very difficult
proposition. The Board really believes that any surface water
below mean high tide, unless proven other wise, in the Town we
have an interest in beneficial ownership in the name of the
people in the Town of Southold. Regardless of what your deed
may say, you would have a title search to buttress that before
we would let you put a structure out there.
MR. ZEIDLER: All I am trying to do is answer a problem.
JOHlq BREDEMEYER: I know what you are saying.
MR. ZEIDLER: So, if I put it on my line there is no problem as
far as the view easement is concerned .... can walk here down to
a little twenty two foot boat, believe me.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: You can certainly apply for that. We can't deny
you that.
ROY HAJE: The problem, I am afraid, with that would be that we
have already been told by the DEC to move it back, so I don't
think we can do it.
MR. ZEIDLER: Alright, Thank you.
MR. WALKER: May I say one thing.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: I was going to say maybe we can close out the
comments. Maybe one more thing and maybe one more thing for Mr.
Zeidler, Mr. Haje then we should be able to close the
hearing. Go ahead Mr. Walker.
MR. WALKER: The only thing on the six feet that he says, we have
a marker and I think I showed it to you (Mr. Bredemeyer). In
the deed it something to the effect that you could go out six
more feet into the creek. Actually the marker is right where
you saw it, the cement marker.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Yes.
MR. WALKER: If he went out another six feet then it would be
another job.
JOH/q BREDEMEYER: That is not even a question here. That is not
what we have before us. We can only deal with the application
that we have in front of us now. O.K. If there are no further
comments I will take a motion to close the hear...
MR. ZEIDLER: I have one more comment.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K.
MR. ZEIDLER: If you give me the opportunity to take and do the
90' of bulkheading in as much as it has been done three times,
we will go ahead. If we cannot do the 90' of bulkheading and
you claim my land, then the Walkers' win another one. Thank you.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Thank You.
MRS. WALKER: I just want to ask you, did I not understand you
all correctly to say when you did an on site inspection that
dredging would indeed in danger our bulkheading.
JOHN BR~DEMEYER: I don't honestly recall what I said or what
other members said to put it in exact words. I know we where
very concerned about dredging.
Board of Trustees 12 June 21, 1990
MR. ZEIDLER: The only thing is if they wanted to dredge, fine
if they went down to the sand, but don't take clay bottom out.
That is wrong. If he can find sand, fine. We all in the
community, need that bulkhead. The bulkhead was needed when Mr.
Zeidler bought the property. It was wrong of the constable
when they came down and he had a couple of blanks and they
filled it with dirt, I think it was Rielly or what ever it was
- McCarthy, he said to me it is going to help you. It can't
help me because every time we had it come in the waves would
undermine and it would take it out. This was a year ago and
there was nothing done.
JOHlq BREDEMEYER: O.K. One last co~m~ent. This would be the last
one unless a Board member wants to speak.
ROY HAJE: It is not unusual for dredging to occur next to a
bulkhead. That happens. You have approved, the DEC has
approved it. Many agencies have approved that, so that is not
an unusual request. (Roy Haje and Mr. Walker talking to each
other away from microphone).
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Why don't you keep your comments to the Chair
Roy and if you want to finish and then that should be it.
ROY HAJE: The concern with navigation, if you look to see where
those old sections with bulkhead go out, they are probably just
as far as a boat would be and they are going to be taken out.
They are right now as much a navigation hazard as a boat kept in
that bulkhead which was just mapped.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I think that one point that has to be taken,
Roy, is that dredging has already taken place. Jay says that
sand has been removed.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: There is very little sand there.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I understand because of a wash out and sand
washing in, but it has been removed.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. I think we can close the hearing at this
point. Can I take a motion to close.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I make a motion to close.
JOHI~ TUTHILL: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: With respect to the vote on the permit, I would
like to segment the vote for the sake of order. In other words
vote on the bulkhead and then go into a second vote on the
dredging aspect since it seems to be easily divided. Then it
would be easier to discuss it. If that is acceptable to the
Board. Motion on the bulkhead.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I make a motion to approve 90' of bulkhead.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: And a second on the bulkhead.
JOHN TUTHILL: I'll second it.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: O.K. for a point of discission could we add
language to that that the bulkhead be at the same level as the
existing bulkhead to the south of which it will attach and that
the use of the bulkhead and the back filling of it be no higher
then the level to the south and that it gives full respect to
the existing eye view easement agreement which runs with the
land in that location.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Is that a motion?
Board of Trustees 13 June 21, 1990
JOHN BREDEMEYER: That is a request to add that as a addition
item.
JOHN TUTHILL: We want to get the eye view thing in there.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Yea, in other words to add that, if you will,
onto your motion if you would. Is that acceptable?
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Yes it is.
JOPIN BEDNOSKI: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Do I hear a vote on the motion?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Now, with respect to the dredging, I would be
inclined to try to split the baby down the middle myself. I
would have no objection to recovering material along the
bulkhead, but not the dredging application. That way.., there
has been, through the time, there has probably been material
lost. It is not uncol~ut,on to have applicants request to
recapture material but I would make it a requirement that Bay
Constable be present and that they charge to the applicant, the
cost of having the Bay Constable do a field inspection to
actually watch the operations as they are conducted. And permit
Mr. Zeidler to capture material along.., he is going to pull
the zig zag out, which he will get material as well as he
will get additional sand in front of it under the direction of
the Bay Constable.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: With the zig zag that is true.
JOHN TUTHILL: Do we have any idea how much water there will be
after he puts this bulkhead in?
JOHN BREDEMEYER: I think he will have no water. There will be
no water what so ever. With the bulkhead constructed there will
be no water. There will be no change essentially from the
existing elevation just with the addition of the bulkhead.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: A little bit of material from the behind the
zig zag.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: It was just a suggestion that I had possibly.
MR. WALKER : If I may say one other thing. As long as they
don't take anything below the sand. If they start taking the
clay bottom out then...
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Well, we will be able to direct the Bay
Constable. I have no objection to that.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: I will make it in a form of a motion. I don't
want to entertain or I am not going to offer a motion on
dredging here...I will make a motion that material be permitted
to be captured for back fill at the sole direction of the Bay
Constable and that no material shall be taken from below, what
is the mean low water level.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in Favor?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: In the matter of the application of New York
Sea Grant to restrict activity on up to eight 16' X 16'
experimental shellfish plots on Long Beach Bay (Hallocks Bay)
bottom for up to December 21, 1990. Monica Bricelj
requested that we offer them some protection for some plots
where they are going to seed scallops to check grow out rates on
Board of Trustees 14 June 21, 1990
different types of eel grass on bottom. They can't give us a
map as yet because they haven't completed site selection. I
informed them that they should work directly with the Bay
Constable in that they would want to set these off with floats.
The reason for a p~blic hearing and a discussion by the Trustees
would be to provide additional protection so that if there is
any question of shellfishing or other activities taking place
and that the Bay Constable can enforce it.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Sounds suitable.
JOH~ BREDEMEYER: Anybody here speaking against it? No comments,
I will ask that we have a motion to close the hearing in this
matter.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: So moved.
JOH~ BEDNOSKI: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: Motion to approve?
ALBERT KRUPSKI: So moved.
JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
VOTE OF THE BOAi{D: ALL AYES.
ASSESSMENTS/ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATIONS:
JOHN BREDEMEYER: A motion to go back on the regular meeting?
ALBERT KRUPSKI: So moved.
JOHN TUTHILL: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: In the matter of J.M.O. Consulting in behalf
of William Riley to construct approx. 145' of timber
bulkhead and to backfill structure with approx. 20 c.y. of
clean sand which will be trucked in from an upland source.
Project located at Cedar Point Drive West, Southold. Fronting
West Lake. An assessment for this project?
ALBERT KRUPSKI: I make a motion to give it a Positive
Declaration.
JOHN BEDNOSKI: Second.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: All in favor?
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDE~EYER: Larry Tuthill to construct retaining wall
75' long on road fronting Cutchogue Harbor, Construct 80' of
bulkhead on Schoolhouse Creek, dredge 80 c.y. backfill with
same, remove dock and relocate as floating dock in other area.
Project located at Orchard Street and First Street, New
Suffolk.
After discussion with applicant a motion was made by JOHN
BREDEMEYER and seconded by ALBERT KRUPSKI to segment the
project. The reason for the segment being that-the permit
application process is near completion with the adjudicatory
hearing with the D.E.C. directing there permit issuance.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 15 June 21, 1990
JOH~ BREDEMEYER: With respect to the portion of the application
dealing with the retaining I would take a motion to table it
this month while the Board coordinates the retaining wall on
Peconic Bay with the D.E.C. A motion to table that portion of
the application.
JOHN BEDNOSKI: So moved.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Second.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDE~EYER: With the respect to the environmental
assessment for the bulkhead, 80' inside Schoolhouse Creek. After
discussion with applicant a motion was made by JOHN BREDEMEYER
and seconded by JOHN BR~NOSKI to declare a Negative
Declaration subject to making use of the vegetative material
here for some beneficial use of the Town.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: A motion to table the placement of the float a
long the Schultise bulkhead.
ALBERT KRUPSKI: Second.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
JOHN BREDEMEYER: U.S.D.A. Plum Island Animal Disease Center-
To install replacement bulkheads adjacent to existing bulkheads
along approximately 200 feet of northern end of USDA Orient
Point Harbor, replace existing earthen finger pier with wooden
finger pier and install mooring piles and maneuvering dolphin.
Project located at Plum Island Parking area, Orient Point.
After short discussion a motion was made by JOHN BREDEMEYER and
seconded by ALBERT KRUPSKI to declare a Negative Declaration and
to transmit a letter requesting a work plan for the removal of
the earthen finger pier and to incorporate run off into dry
wells or drainage swales.
VOTE OF THE BOARD: ALL AYES.
MOORINGS:
1. William Barron - request mooring in Narrow River.
A motion was made by JOHN BREDEMEYER and seconded by ALBERT
KRUPSKI to approve. ALL AYES.
2. Robert Bishop- request mooring in Gull Pond for 25' Chris
Craft, inboard. (offshore mushroom). A motion was made by JOHN
BREDEMEYER and seconded by ALBERT KRUPSKI to table this
application pending review of Gull Pond. ALL AYES.
3. Frank Licari- request mooring in Town Creek for a 22'
Tanzer sailboat with foreward and aft anchor. A motion was
made by JOHN BREDEMEYER and seconded by ALRERT KRUPSKI to
approve. ALL AYES.
4. Mark Lewenheim- request mooring in Goose Creek for a
18' Bayliner, outboard. (offshore mooring). A motion was made
by JOHN BREDEMEYER and seconded by ALBERT KRUPSKI to approve
subject to moving further to the west. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees 16 June 21, 1990
5. Marie Ciulla- request mooring in Richmond Creek for a
19' Sea Ray, outboard. (offshore mooring). A motion was made by
JOHN BREDEMEYER and seconded by ~T~ERT KRUPSKI to table pending
further review. ALL AYES.
6. Joseph Haeg- request mooring in James Creek for a 22'
inboard/outboard. (offshore mooring). A motion was made by JOHN
BREDEMEYER and seconded by ALBERT KRUPSKI to approve. ALL AYES.
7. R.J. Rehm- request mooring in Broadwaters Cove for a
16' Starcraft with 18lb Danford with a 5' chain. A motion
was made by ALBERT KRUPSKI and seconded by JOHN BREDEMEYER to
approve subject to a 50lb mushroom. ALL AYES.
RESOLUTIONS:
1. A motion was made by JOHN BREDEMEYER and seconded by ALBERT
KRUPSKI set the following applications for a public hearing to
be held on July 26, 1990: Larry Tuthill, USDA Plum Island
and Carl Vail. ALL AYES.
A motion was made by JOHN BREDEMEYER and seconded by ALBERT
KRUPSKI to waive a permit to remove the pipe on Carl Vail's
property. ALL AYES.
The meeting was adjourned at 9:00 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Thorp', Clerk
M.
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CL~.~K
DATE ~ )~ ~ HOUB~
Town Clerk, Town of Southold