HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-07/28/1994 Albert J. Kmpsld, President
John Holzapfel, Vice President
William G. Albertson
Martin H. Garrell
Peter Wenczel
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Town Hail
53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Telephone (516) 765-1892
Fax (516) 765-1823
MINVJTES
JULY 28, 1994
PRESENT WERE:
Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President
John Holzapfel, Vice-President
Peter Wenczel, Trustees
Martin Garrell., Trustee
William G. Albertson, Trustee
Diane J. Herbert, Clerk
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIA~{CE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wed. August 17, 1994 at 12 noon
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL
seconded. ALL AYES
NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Thur. Aug. 25, 1994 at 7 pm
WORKSESSION: 6:00 pm
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL
seconded. ALL AYES
I. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public notices are posted on the Town
Clerk's Bulletin Board for review.
II. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES:
1. ANN BERRYMAN requests a waiver to construct a 6' high
vinyl fence 60' long on.her western property line, as shown on
survey dated 7/6/94. Surveyor gave copy of deed Showing that
property line goes down to MHW.Located 2100 Youngs Road,
Orient. SCTM 918-2-1
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to deny the waiver and request a full
application, TRUSTEE 'ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
2. RICHARD ZEIDLER requests an amendment to Permit ~4169 to
add 40 to 50 c.y. of fill to property. Located Edgemere Path,
Mattituck, Brushes Creek. $CTM 9145-4-15
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the amendment, TRUSTEE
ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
~Board of Trustees 2 July 28~ 1994
3. En-cons%~ltants Inc., on behalf of HENRY LATHAM requests an
amendment to Permit 94138 to place 100-300 lb. armor stone
immediately seaward of 57' of existing bulkhead. Located Rogers
Road, Southotd. SCTM 966-2-40
TRUSTEE WENCZEL moved to tabl~ the amendment and reinspect in
August, TRUSTEE ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
4. En-consultants Inc., on behalf of GEORGE S. CASE requests an
amendment to PeignOt 94284 to replace beach house on its
foundation which is presently lying on its side. Located 3745
Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue. SCTM $111-9-4.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve the amendment, TRUSTEE
ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
5. JO~q MC QUAiD requests a waiver to build a wooden deck
40' X 14' over a pre-existing concrete patio. Located 1720
Mason Drive, Cutchogue. SCTM $104-7-12
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve the waiver, TRUSTEE ALBERTSON
seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFELmoved to go off the regular meeting and go
onto Public Hearings, TRUSTRR ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
III. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS ~OR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE
SUFFOLK TIMES ~AND AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE LONG
ISLAND TRAVELER-WATChMAN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ
PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMFiENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF: Fi. VE (5) MINUTES OR LESS, IF POSSIBLE
7:15 p.m. In the matter of Proper-T Services on behalf of EDWARD
HINDERMANN to construct a fixed open walkway 41' X. 3', a
hinged ramp 12' X 3' and a floating dock 20' X 6'. Also install
two 2-pile dolphins'to secure floating dock. Located 405 Pierce
Drive, CutchOgue. SCTM $136-1-7.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 'Anyone in favor of the application?
MR. FITZGERALD: I have nothing to add to the application, but
I'd be happy to answer any questions.
BRUCE LOUCKA: You have our recommendations.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: "CAC recommends approval with the
stipulations that the walkway be a mininr~m of 4' above the
vegetation and that applicant replant all spartina damaged
during the work".
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I inspected the site today, and it was hard
to tell from standing on the bulkhead will this dock be
substantially longer or longer than the adjoining docks.
MR. FITZGERAr.~: It will be, as close as I can tell, is'the
same length as the docks to the north.
'Board of Trustees 3 July 28, 1994
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: You would have no problem with us putting
that stipulation on the permit, that it would be no longer, that
the overall finished length be no longer than the adjoining
docks?
MR. FITZGERALD: I certainly would have no problem with that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Es there anyone who would like to speak in
favor or against the application? Do I have any other coa~uent
from the Board? Motion to close?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Motion on this.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I'll make a motion to approve as applied for
with the stipulation that this finished dock be no longer that
the adjoining docks to the north and the fixed open walkway be
in sync with the other docks, and that the fixed open walkway be
4' above grade.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
7:16 p.m. - In the matter of En-Consultants Inc., on behalf of
NEW SUFFOLK SHIPYARD to demolish an existing boat storage and
replace with a smaller metal building with drywelts 56' back
from water. Remainder of area of old building will be covered
with bluestone'to match existing yard, and area shown on survey
as "covered shed: with "X" will be used for installation of
outdoor boat storage racks. Located New Suffolk Ave., New
Suffolk. SCTM ~117-5-29.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone here like to speak against this
application? Would anyone here like to speak in favor of this
application? "CAC recommends approval and they suggest
outdoor boat storage racks be no higher than the shed" Dion,
can I ask a question? What are they taking that barn down for?
DION: The problem with the barn now is that it's too low to
fit our equipment in. So moving boats in and out is extremely
inefficient, it needs total gutting. It needs roof, siding,
doors, windows, etc. The building is larger than we need. The
cost of refurbishing the er~ire building justifies demolition
and replacing it with a smaller building.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Do you a problem with the CAC's c~mL~nts,
in terms of limiting the height of the dry racks?
DION: Absolutely not.
TRUSTEE KRLr~SKI: What was the concern there?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think they just don't want them to be 200
feet tall.
DION: The new structure and addition will be smaller and
lower and available height will be lower than the existing
building.
TRUSTEE K~UPSKI: How high can you store a boat rack?
DION: We're not really looking for major capacity and we're
not trying to get into the dry rack storage in and out of wet
and dry. The capacity of our fork lift limits us to.'...the
lower portion of the third high rack is in the neighborhood 16
or 18 feet, which is lower than the plate lines.
Board of Trustees 4 July 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't know if you want to get into limiting
a marina to say how high they should put their boats.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I think it's just one of those things' of an
expansion that's unproposed. I don't see the reason here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are there any other comments?
TRUSTEE HOLZAP~L: Motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I move to approve.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
7:20 p.m. - In the matter of J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of
ALICE MIGNEREY to reconstruct within 18" approx. 80' of
timber bulkhead and to. backfill structure with approx. 20 c.y.
of clean sand which shall be trucked in from an upland source.
Upon completion of project any disturbed areas located landward
of bulkhead shall be replanted with Rosa Rugosa 18" on
center. Located 1480 Paradise Point road, Southold. SCTM
~81-3-21
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone here who would like to speak in favor
or against this application? "CAC recommended approval
provided the applicant plant beach grass in front of the
bulkhead. The CAC suggests the applicant consider repairing
the bulkhead. There is no apparent need for a new bulkhead, the
existing bulkhead appears to be in good shape". She's not here
and neither are her agents.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I looked at it and it's just a bulkhead
replacement basically.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a lawn coming down to it?
TRUSTEE ~ENCZEL: No, there's a bluff and a bulkhead on the
beach. I don't think there's a problem with this. Whether it's
necessary or not the owner feels it's deteriorating .....
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What about the CAC's comment about the beach
grass?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Should we leave it as a recommendation?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: OK, we'll leave it as a reco~m~endation. Is
there any further comment on this?
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to close.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I'll make a motion we approve the
application.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES
7:24 p.m. - In the matter of James Thompson on behalf of LOUIS
BACON to reconstruct an existing deteriorated 12' X 285' fixed
timber dock, reconstruct offshore 6' X 64~ "L" section with the
installation of a wave curtain to protect docked vessels from
north, northeast and 'northwest winds, reconstruct offshore 32' X
32' filled dock, replace two 6' X 24' floats and add three
additional 6' X 24' floats with associated mooring pilings and
in~tall four 7-pile dolphins to safely berth ferry boat and/or
supply barge. LOcated Robins Island, Southold. SCTM
%134-3-5 (NOTE: Applicant requests an amendment to this
application to provide a temporary dockage by installing 4 - 6'
X 24', 1 6' X 30' float (secured with associated pilings) & a
Board of Trustees 5 July 28, 1994
32' X 30' access ramp to shore (for foot traffic only). The
floats will later be used in completing the floating section of
the dock facility. ALSO: Applicant requests to amend this
application to add the following to the New Suffolk Site as
Robins Island dock cannot be built without modifications to New
Suffolk Site: To install five pilings in front of the
dilapidated bulkhead (north side of Town launching ramp) to
secure their landing craft and barge during the loading and
unloading of equipment and supplies. Applicant proposes using
the upland area for deliveries and storing equipment, supplies,
etc. which will be used on the Island. Chesterfield is
presently using this section as access to his landing craft. It
will be beneficial to install a temporary access ramp (20' X
I20' Geoweb) in this area (northerly side). On southerly
side: to install 5 - 6' X 20' floats (with 5 associated pilings)
and a 32" X 20' access ramp in front of the dilapidated
bulkhead, install 3 mooring pilings in the vicinity of the
launching craft area to secure landing craft when equipment and
vehicles are loading and unloading.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Something seems to be redundant here. It was
necessary to do the work on the Island to get better access in
New Suffolk, so we amended the application. In the description,
it's got the first temporary dockage facility as 4 - 6' X 24'
floats and 1 - 6' X 30' float with a ramp. But then it mentions
down here (indicating on description) also. So I think we
covered that twice.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Weren't there modifications on there that
were opposed after our inspection?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just to make sure we have our facts straight
on this, I'm going to ask Mr. Thompson to come up and try to
clarify this before we open it to public co~mL,ent.
~R. THOMPSON: I think the confusion here is the first temporary
floating docks described is at the Island site in order to
maintain access to the Island while the work is being done on
the existing deteriorated dock, we needed a temporary float to
the east of the existing site. The second one is the New
SUffolk bulkhead.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. Now I'll open it up. Would anyone like
to speak against this application?
MR. FITZGERALD: I have a question. Do I read this correctly
that that dock is 12' wide?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's right. That's more or less what was
originally there.
TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL: It's a replacement inkind/inplace of tbs
dock on RobinsIsland.
TRUSTEE Kt~UPSKI: Anyone who would like to speak in favor of the
application?
MR. LOUCKA: You have two recommendations of mine. One for the
Island and one for New Suffolk.
GEORGE COSTELLO: I just want to make myself available in case
there are any questions from the Board.
TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL: One of the concerns just looking a~ it is
when you put the floats in and then you place a large boat there
is it going to be blocking ..... ?
Board of Trustees 6 July 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, that was explained to me by John
Costello this afternoon. The floats are going on the south
side of the old oyster barn, they're not going by the Town ramp.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: When we went out and looked at it our
presumption was that it was going where the boat ramp was, and
that was a concern.
MR. COSTELLO: There will be a barge on the north bulkhead where
we're gonna put a couple of pilings just for loading and
unloading. It's not our tie-up slip, so we don't want ~o
obstruct any boats or launching.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: "CAC's comments, Approval as submitted".
Also any further comments? that was our concern in the field,
'that we had our location switched around. Motion to close?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE ALBERT$ON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Motion to approve the application including
the amendment for the work in New Su'ffolk.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALT. AYES
7:30 p.m. In the matter of Jay Dempsey on behalf of WALTER
GREEN to construct a 6' X 20' float, a 3' X 12' ramp and a 4' X
24' catwalk to accommodate dockage of private boat. Located
Pine Neck Road, Southold. Approx. 1~000' east of intersection
of Oaklawn Ave. & Pine Neck Road & approx. 800' west of
intersection of Oakwood Drive & Pine Neck Road. SCTM
~70-6-20
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone like to speak in favor or against
this application? "CAC recommends approval with provision
that it does not interfere with the neighbor's navigation and
does not impinge on the use of the neighbor's dock." Our
Trustee's policy requires 15' from property line.
It can't be kept 15' off the property line because he's got 3'
on one side and probably 4' on the other. Mr. Dempsey could
you.give us atittle explanation on this please? Are you
familiar with any sort of docking facility to the west of here?
What sort of docking facility do they have to the west and how
close is it?
MR. DEMPS~f: It's similar to what saw but not exactly,
probably about 10 feet from the existing decks of the neighbor.
Obviously it's a small piece.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there one to the west?
MR. DE~PSEY: No, it's hundreds of feet away.
TRUSTEE~KRUPSKI: Now the one to the east, we have that ramp
penciled in here in a "T" shape configuration.
MR. DEMPSET: I believe that is the way it is.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I can't see how they're gonna put the dock
in and put a boat on it and not have it in front of the
neighbors property or not interfere with the neighbor to the
east, Mr Wells. I think the only way we can approve this kind
of application is if we have a written agreement from the
neighbors that allows Mr. Green to dock his boat in front of the
neighbors property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Or at least so that there's some spirit of
cooperation there that th~ neighbor realizes that this is
Board of Trustees 7 July 28, 1994
happening and that they're willing to work together, 'cause
obviously there's enough if they want to squeeze them in to work
together. We really don't like to force the situation. We
would rather see a letter from Mr. Wells saying "I don't have a
problem with my neighbor putting a dock in 3' from my property".
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: What's happening here is if you put a 6'
float and then you put a boat next to it your overlapping onto
the adjacent property owners extended line. We don't have the
right to do that. It sets a problem as to whether we can
approve that.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I think obviously this property tapers down
so that there's access to the creek but it does not necessarily
guarantee a dock area, without that cooperation between
neighbors there. It certainly can be in agreement with the
neighbor to the west, Mr. Rhinehardt also.
MR. DEMPSEY: Should we stipulate the size of the boat perhaps?
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I would think so, yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do we really want to do that? Because he
could put any size boat on the other side of it.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I would think that Mr. Green should make it
very clear to whoever he makes an agreement with what size boat
is gonna be on that dock. It's a complex issue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It seems like there's room if he wants to have
one boat to keep it on the right side.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: There probably is, as long as his neighbor
is happy with that arrangement.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would it be possible to get letters from
neighbors there saying ..... ? We'll close the hearing tonight
but we won't vote on this. When we get the letters if its a
real rush, we can come in and vote and if its not we can put the
vote off until the next meeting.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I have another concern. That is if one of
the property owners were to sell you might be forcing a
situation on a new owner .... I don!t know quite how to deal with
that.
TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: I don't think that's a problem because your
into our property really so it's a matter of if we feel we want
to give this fellow a dock to access his property. If he puts
it in properly at the right angle he could have a boat there
without any problem. You can have a problem with your neighbor
no matter how far you are. I think it's just a matter of
whether we want to go ahead and do that. If we c~ld get that
letter, then we'll put the vote off until next month. We'll
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Perhaps we want to leave the hearing open
until those letters get into the record.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll entertain a motion to recess the
hearing. I'll make a motion to recess the hearing. TRUSTEE
ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
7:35 p.m. - In the matter of Harbor Marine Construction on
behalf of LUIS PORTAL to construct a 4' X 20' catwalk, a 4' X
10' ramp, a 6' X 18' float and install 8 pilings. Also to
dredge to 3' below MLW on south side of float to a maximum of
Board of Trustees 8 July 28, 1994
20' out from MHW. Located south side of Jockey Creek Drive,
650' west of Gilbert Street, Southold..' SCTM ~70-5-52
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in
favor or against this application?
WAYNE HULSE: If you have a you have any questions I would be
glad to help you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: "CAC reco~,,ends disapproval of the dock as
submitted but would approve a shorter version of the dock. The
dock should not be any longer than that of the dock on the
adjacent property to the east. The submitted version was too
long and would create navigational problems. Also, the
southerly piles must be removed. There is not need for them and
they would be a danger to navigation. In addition, the CAC
approves a minimum of dredging and the dredge spoil must be
hauled off site. Do the Board members have any co~m~ents?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is this any different than the one you
applied for 3 years ago?
MR. HULSE: No there haven't been any changes and. all those
qn/estions that they had were addressed at the last meeting.
this had been approved twice before, but due to financial
problems the client wasn't able to build then. Basically we are
looking for a renewal and it looks like we will be able to build
in September.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The owner of the mariner across the street
had no problem. Wasn't he at the meeting?
MR. HULSE: Yes he was and that's why he moved it as far to
the south as we could to prevent any access problem.
MR. LOUCKA: Those two pilings. Why are they there? Are they
really needed, 'cause ~hey're gonna be sitting there by
themselves and if someone goes by with their boat they're
gonna run into them.
MR. HULSE: Basically the two outside posts are just to hold
the boat up to the dock. That's just what the client wanted.
MR. LOUCKA: If this boat's not there, they're gonna be
sticking out into the creek.
MR. HULSE: It also Provides some protection of his boat when
it is in.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I had a problem with the dredging in that
creek. As a matter of record I'm opposed to this kind of
dredging.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's an ud%usual area and I have the same
feeling as you do Peter, but if your at all familiar, it's that
big pipe that comes down and it's all the dirt and sand coming
off the farms coming off the Main Road. They come out scoop out
a hole in front of the pipe on a regular basis. It tends to
fill in a lot with that, so it's not that your dredging a big
hole~ your trying to remove some of the stuff that's been dumped
in by the state.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I've had individuals approach me and claim
that whole creek up to the bridge is filling in and it should be
maintenance dredged. Maybe yes, maybe no, but I still have a
problem with dredging that far into the creek. If we grant this
dredging project, then maybe we should dredge outthat whole
section. I think it sets a precedent.
Board of Trustees 9 July 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I agree with John, that this is an unusual
area because of the tremendous volume of road run-off that silts
in there.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I also question the reason for a 4' X 20'
catwalk instead of a 3' X 20' & a 4' X 10' r~mp instead of a 3'
X 10' ramp given the ~uidelines that we follow.
MR. HULSE: We don't have any problem following those 3'
concerns.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does anyone else have concerns about the
length of the dredging? Anyone else have any concerns before we
close the hearing?
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I'll make a motion to close the
hearing.
TRUSTEE Ar~ERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion we approve the
application with the change and that the catwalk will be 3' X
20' and ramp will be 3' X t0'.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And the condition on that will be, that for
any ..... we'i1 leave the two outside pilings off and if those 2
outside pilings become necessar~you can apply next year to
amend 'that permit for those 2 additional piles
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Opposed dredging.
(dredge Spoil Site hearing willbe last)
7:45 p.m. - In the matter of C~IRISTOPHER CONNORS to construct
a single family dwelling with associated sanitary system as per
map dated November 3r 1993 and approved by the Health Department
January 5, 1994. Located West Drive, Southold. SCTM
959-5-29.3
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We'll change the date. As per map
dated...instead of November 3, 1993, the most recent map
submitted was July 15, 1994, then apparently it was approved by
the Health Dept. at that time. Would anyone here like to
speak against the application?
JAMES MANOS: I own the property including the wetlands to the
south of the applicants property. T~e site plan that was
included as part of the draft environmental ~pact stat~uent
originally andwas dated 1988 was the one that was accepted by
the TrUstees. All of you should have copies since I provided
you with copies.. It shows an area to be utilized by the
applicant on the northern half of the property approx. 65' X
135'. This amounts to 8,000 s.f. It represents the best best
thinking at the timeon the part of the applicants expert, which
is Mr. Haje, who recommended that the structure be placed on
the northeast q~adrant of the property so as to have the least
impact on the environment.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Can I just interrupt for a minute.
Northwest, your saying, not northeast.
MR. MANOS: Northeast. The upper right quadrant. This site
plan when provided for the preservation of i2,.000 of s.f. the
wetlands, that would be the area to the south of the structures
approx. 75' X 155' including a small area to the west of the.
Board of Trustees 10 July 28, 1994
septic system. The present site plan reverses the figures. The
present site plan shows an area to be utilized by the applicant
of approx. 90' fronting on West Drive and going back 2 lengths
that average approx. 130'. This amounts to a utilization of
1,500' of these wetlands. Approx. a 50% increase in the
destruction of the wetlands as compared to the accepted site
plan. It means approx. 8,500 s.f. in a wetlands state.
think this is a substantial difference. And as such should be
the subject of another application, and another SEQRA process.
It should also be rejected because it does not represent a
maximizing of the saving of the wetlands. I also wish to point
out that the DEC after a long hearing in which experts appeared
made findings, conclusions and a decision denying a DEC permit,
wetlands permit, on the basis of the contamination of ground
water that would be caused by the insertion of a sanitary system
on the property. I realize that later on this decision which
was up on appeal an application was made by Mr. Connors for an
exemption, which was he was absolutely entitled to, from the
wetlands act, the New York State Wetlands Act. And it was
granted. The case was marked off the calendar not because of
any merits but because of this exemption. Again, he was
entitled to. But what is more important here is I think the
Trustees have a legal right to consider the findings and fact
the conclusions of law of that DEC decision. Over a period of
approx. 5 months I took a series of photographs of the
wetlands. The Town's property, my property and the Peconic
Dunes Camp property. I wish to s~bmit them for your
consideration.
TRUSTEE KRUPSK!: Would anyone else like to speak against this
application?
ANN LOWRY: I am representing the North Fork Environmental
Council which has roughly 1,000 people, members, who are
concerned about the preservation of our natural resources her on
the North Fork. The NFC is alterably opposed to interfering
with the sizable important wetland area such as the one that is
described in this project. This has been desCribed area as
unique by the consultant Santakas. Unique, as I understand it
because, it contains tidal wetlands and fresh water wetlands.
Aside from the-fact that the DEC has seen possible serious
problems with any sanitary system placed on the site, it is our
understanding that the Trustees is the major governmental proof
tn Southold for the responsibility for protecting and conserving
our natural and water related resources. Clearly disturbing
these wetlands is interconnected serious of ponds andswamps is
not in the interest of conservation of Southo!d Town Resources.
We have learned over the years that we have done many, many
destructive things in the. past which doesn't mean we have to
repeat them now. Build~ng a house with a central sanitar~
system on this land in or near the wetlands with a threat of
contamination of ground Water is a dangerous action to take
now. We know that. We urge the Trustees not to allow a pez~L~t
for construction of a home on this property. We realize that
the private property right issued is in the forefront here, but
Board of Trustees 11 July 28, 1994
if we do not protect what belongs to the co, m,enity we won't have
a co~z~u~ity.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone else like to speak against the
application? Would anyone like to speak in favor of the
application?
JANET GAESA: I'm the attorney fro~ Wickham, Wickham &
Bresslero We represent the Conners. I'd like to make a
couple of points. As you know we appeared before you previously
and so your fully aware of the Conners position so I'll be
brief. With respect to the DEC issue, which is a non-issue as
Mr. Manes acknowledged the DEC granted the exemption, the
issue of the sanitary system itself then was placed before the
agency with proper jurisdiction to determine those issues namel~
the Department of Health and as the Trustees have recognized you
have before you a map which presents you with the approval of
the Department of Health. I would suggest it would be
inappropriate for you to consider the DEC's findings in an area
where they were ultimately required to conceive they have no
jurisdiction to make a determination in the first instance.
With respect to the discrepancy if any of the site plans as you
know this is a matter that has been long pending an application
has long been pending by the Conners requiring them to go to
various agencies and that application which is before tonight is
the result of various agencies rec~m~endations and approvals. I
would suggest that those agencies approvals for items such as
sanitary system, which is I believe a particular item you seem
to be concerned ~hout, should be given great weight. With
respect to Ms. Lowry's contentions with all do respect to her
and her agency, her position expressed tonight is that they
object to any development of the area at all and this amounts as
you know to taking the Conners property withou~ just
compensation. And that is impermissible. We've been, with all
do respect, around and around on this issue and we believe that
the application whiCh the Trustees have before it, is the proper
one ~n order to permit the Conners their right to develop the
property in a matter most reasonable, not only to them, but to
the Town o~ Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else who would like to speak
in favor of the application?
TOM SAMUELS: Roy Hajeis on vacation, and fortunately because
of the much dated ..... I have been following this application for
some time and it would appear to me that this applicant has gone
through a rigorou~ regutatoryproceeding. I think there comes a
time when the final reg~Iatorybody has to say, "Well he has
some use for his property", or if the Town had some means of
acquiring the property, so be it, that'scertain. I don't see
that. It would seem that the Health Department, who had the
most rigorous standards for setbacks from tidal waters and ~resh
water wetlands, in the northeastern United States. The Suffolk
CountyHealth Dept. has made a determination. I think that
determination, on the basis of their expertise, should hold some
merit as far as you~ determinations are concerned.
TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL: Are you saying, that where they're siting
the cesspools is not wetlands?
Board of Trustees i2 July 28, 1994
MR. SAMUELS: I'm not saying that at all. I'm not familiar with
the details of it.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Well let me tell you so that your at least
familiar with what your talking ~hout, so that would help you.
The siting of the cesspools is right on top of the wetlands. So
the Health Dept ..... this is the only areas they can use
because of the wells that are on the adjacent properties
determins the distance that it can be.
MR. SAMUELS: This applicant has had quite a burden, and one
must have some compassion for this applicant. And I thinkthat
in view of what the other agencies have done, your even in a
more difficult situation.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't think we're gonna deal out any
compassion here tonight either way, but I'll acknowledge that
the Connors have been helpful this last month in finding out
any extra information, and working with the new Board and
they've been cooperative.
MR. SAMUELS: I'm just looking that one issue is explainable.
MR. FITZGERALD: Is the location of the cesspools the only
stumbling block?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Actually, the site itself is by the applicants
admission is 66% freshwater wetlands. The rest of it is a
mixture of upland and freshwater. A different consultant looked
at it and claimed that is was 75% wetlands. But your not
talking about a large lot, your talking about 1/2 acre lot. So
you take even 70% of 1/2 acre lot, that's a problem.
MR. FITZGERAT~: Kind of responding to what John said before,
about the adjoining wells being a problem, the wells could be
moved, if somebody wanted to pay for them. If that was the only
problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That was never proposed.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That definitely a choice.
MR. MANOS: I think another problem is that even if Mr.
Connors totally filled in this parcel, there's no place on
that parcel where you could put a sanitary system that would be
less than 40 feet from surface water. Contamination from
surface waters leaks directly to contamination of ground water.
MS. GEASA: With all due respect the Dept. of Health has
already taken that into consideration and we must remember the
parcel with which we are dealing. The fact that some of 'those
wetlands were created after the Connors purchased the property
and by reason of the fact that this was taken until this point
in time to we arrive before you.
TRUST~ KRUPSKI: I don't understand you. The wetlands were
created after the Connors purchased .....
MS. GEASA: They were designated.
TRUSTEE'F~RUPSKI: Oh, then they weren't created. That's a big
difference.
MR. CONNORS: I'm not gonna go through a long dissertation,
but for 8 years you people know that your Building Inspector
checked the maps. This land was not on a wetlands map. Th~s
Building Inspector gave us approval, totally gave a C.O. then
said go ahead clear the land. He lied in a subsequent statement
when he went before the judge but he didn't say it, 'cause he
~ Board of Trustees 13 July 28, 1994
couldn't, and in this court, he said "Yes, I told you you could
build on that", however, you didn't tell me there was some water
on it. So he knew, he told us. That's one thing. The second
thing is, certain times if you don't have rain for long period
of time, that is dry. I walked, all the whole thing, but the
water flows from the Shorts property which was filled in, and
from the road which is raised. This is a man made created
problem. It wouldn't have been a problem is the Building
Inspector didn't make the error. One more thing. They require
that we build a cement wall to keep it away from the septic
system would be. I would have had a house there except for Mr.
Manos. This man not only spoke against the adjacent property
owner, but if you know the history, the man who know owns the
land, that man applied for a building permit. This guy objected
strenuously and gave him a permit and then he bought the land.
So now he owns the land adjacent to him. One other thing, at
the Health Dept. I thought this man, for eight years, was an
environmentalist and had deep concern for the waters. Maybe the
guy was honest. He said at this Health Dept. meeting he's
like to build 2 houses for his sons, on that property that is
all along mine.
MR. MANOS: That is not true. I happen to own 2 parcels that
are undeveloped and next to my house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This kind of discussion you could take to the
parking lot later, we don't want to get into this. Let's stick
to the record here.
MR. CONNORS: ~e Shorts property was filled in and they built
a house. We can't put any fill in and build a house, that's the
problem. Eight years of this and it was created by the Building
Inspector and some Of you Trustees told me, "yes, individually
we have an idiot for a Building Inspector but I'm not gonna
admit this in public".
MR. MANOS: I happen to have a copy of the decision by the
Health Dept. A~d if you read the decision it is so patently
wrong. The decision seems to be based on the fact on the
mistaken belief on the part of the hearing officers, that
permits were issued by the DEC' to build a house on this
property. Its also based on the mistaken fact, and if you read
it. .... (he presents this statement) The decision was also based
on the mistaken fact that the hearing officers could not
consider wetlands or surface waters. It doesn't describe the
degree of danger involved by the insertion of sanitary system.
It doesn't ~y. that there will be no danger, it doesn't say that
ther~.wOul~ danger, it's no decision. It was based on
considerations other than merits.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: Let me read this. That was Mr, Manos's
interpretation of the report, and I don't really want to hear a
rebuttal of Mr. Manos's interpretation. You can speak on
anything that I read from the record. I don't want to get back
and forth.
MS. GEASA: Fine, so long as the Board is aware that he
doesn't have the standing to make those kind of arguments before
you as to his own interpretation.
Board of Trustees 14 July 28, 1994
KRUPSKI: But we do recognize that that was his
interpretation. I'll read the findings and facts from the
S.C.D.H.S. And the hearing date was October 7, 1993 and the
Statement of Problem: The department's constr~ction standards
require that s~bsoil conditions and groundwater conditions be
conducive to the proper functioning of subsurface sewage
disposal systems. The site has poor soil and/or groundwater
conditions. Proposed leaching pools will be less than 100 feet
from area which periodically floods. FINDINGS AND FACTS: 1.
The following facts were presented by Mr. Daniel Ross, Esq. for
the applicant: The lot is part. of a 1992 subdivision; It was
noted that Town documents indicate conceptual approval was
issued in 1974; Mr. Connors purchased the property in 1987
for $57,000; A similar building project was granted approval in
1975; Town Trustees are withholding further consideration on
the application pending a ruling by the SCDES; Applicant has
been issued orders of violation by the town to stop filling of
land; NYSDEC had denied wetland's permit, however, based upon
an Article 78 action, the applicant was granted an exemption.
2. The following documents were provided by the applicant:
AugUst 19, 1992 letter report prepared by Bruce Anderson
Environmental Consultant; Draft Environmental Impact Statement
by Roy Haje, Eh-COnsultants; Article 78 judgementof the
State Supreme Court (Eon, Thomas M. Stark). The suit was
resolved by agreement of the NYSDEC to issue an exemption to
the applicant pursuant to ECL 24-1305, thus allowing
construction of a single family residence. 3. October 4, 1993
letter submitted to the Board from William G. Albertson, Town
Trustee, regarding the proposed development. Concern was
expressed that portions of the property consisted of wetlands
subject to seasonal flooding. The Board of Town Trustee's
resolution dated 1/27/89 was also furnished which recommends
disapproval of the project. 4. Testimony and photographs
presented b~Mr. James Manos to establish the fact that
standing water and wetlands exist on the proposed building
site. Mr. Manos owns adjacent~lot. Mr. Manos also
questioned the Town's conceptual approval, noted in the
applicant's testimony. 5. No well data was Provided,,however,
it was noted that private wells of depths of 60-90 feet have
acceptable water quality. 6. The record was opened to allow
inclusion of the following documents: October 22, 1993 letter
from Mr. Daniel C. Ross regarding clarification of the town's
approval status of the project. A revised site plan dated
10/25/92 with a proposed five pool shallow sanitary system with
retaining wall. Department staff indicated that tile design is
the result of meetings with the applicant's representative and
Mr. James Manos. 7. Building site is 20,000 square feet in
area. 8. Site is in Groundwater Management Zone 9IV. 9. Area
is zoned A-Residential. 10. public water is not available.
Site is within the Greenport W.S., but nearest water main is
one-half a mile from the site. 11. Depth to 9~o~mdw~ter is
~bout 2.3 feet based upon test hole. 12. Soils are Ioam~ sand
0 to 1.6 feet; brown log 1-6 to 2.7 feet; course sand 2.7 to 9
feet. Determination: It was a 3 to 0 determination of the.
Board of Trustees 15 July 28, 1994
Board to ~rant the request for the variance, provided the
applicant installs the expansion pools during the initial
construction o~ the sanitary syst~, it should be noted the
Board's decision is based entirely upon the issue of whether a
sanitary system can be adequately constructed to prevent any
public health hazard. The Board acknowledges that wetl~ndsma~
be lost, however, the impact on the wetlands is not an issue for
consideration of the Board since the NYSDEC has a~reed to
issuance of the necessary permits via a State Supreme Court
judgement. The Suffolk County Department of Health must defer
to NYSDEC regulations and cannot override the court's
judgement. That is what was submitted. You may comment on any
of that.
MS. GEASA: The only portion that I think is really relevant
to the issue here tonight is the Dept. of Health's
acknowledgement that they need not make a detez~,ination with.
respect to the wetlands, because the DEC had already granted the
exemption as they were required to do. That is not a negative
declaration on the part of the Dept. of Health by any stretch
of the imagination. I believe further the decision of the
Dept. of Health reflects that the conclusion which they are
about to reach is one which enables the Connors g~ven the
property that they own and the characteristics of that
property. Because we're not dealing in a vacuum here, we have
to consider what we are dealing with, that they could construct
a proper sanitary system and that it met with their
requirements. Now they have placed the structure so as to
comply with these various requirements and I think we're going
around and around the issue here. The DEC, in essence, waived
off, as they are required to do. That is no longer an issue.
What we're presented here is how can they build their home in a
reasonable manner that satisfies the Trustees with reasonable
requirements, i think that's really the issue here. I think
that to go back and redetermine issues, which by the way, have
already fully mitigated, discussedandMr. Manos has had his
opportunity before those other Boards to assert those issues. I
think that it is a disservice to everyone to distract the Board
from the issues which are before you to deal those past issues.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKt: Would anyone else like to speak in favor or
against this application?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Can I just ask the Connors, did you talk
Miss. Cook about her sanitary system?
M~. CONNORS.: She wouldn't let us look at it, she said she was
tired of people coming around studying her system. But she to
check back maybe she will be inclined to do that. I also wrote
to her and I called about the Clivus Multrum up in
Massachusetts. Apparently they're a small outfit because they
don't even answer "Clivus Multrum", they answer "leave a
message on the record", I did that but they never called me
back. I did it twice, I asked them to call me back. Either
they're very busy or just aren't interested in calling me on
Long Island.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you for making that effort.
Board of Trustees 16 July 28, 1994
MS. GEASA: I was advised that Mr. Reynolds of the Health
Dept. informed Mr. Connors that the Health Dept. neither
insists nor even reco~,uends the Clivus Multrum system.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I spoke to Mr. Reynolds about the Clivus
Multrum and he said his department basically doesn't have
jurisdictian over it since its in the house and if you wanted to
put one in you didn't need any approval from their department.
Motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: These are the findings of the Board and again,
we should have brought the paper work up and about this high
(indicating how tall file is) and it hasn't been easy for the
Trustees or the Connors and its just too bad the system worked
the way it did. I can't answer the fact about the Building
Dept. whatever happened to that because that didn't happen in
this department and I wasn't party to it, but it's been a long
road and I hope it's over. (TRUSTEE KRUPSKI proceeded to read
the resolution prepared by the Trustees, see attached). And I
other wise adversely affect the health, safety and general
welfare of the people of the Town, therefore there's a motion
for the Board of Town Trustees to deny this pez~it.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTR. R GARRELL: Al, would you amend it to read, "Therefore
the Town Board of Trustees denies this permit for application
that is currently written"? Do you want to add that?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Given point number 15 particularly.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other co~L=~ents?
8:37 p.m. - In the matter of DREDGE SPOIL SITES with regard to
dredging the mouths of creeks in Southold Town owned by the
Board cf Trustees. The Board would like the input as to
possible dredge spoil sites.
TRUSTF. R KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here for that matter?
MR. SAMUE~LS: I'd like to add some input on some of the dredge
spoil sites that I feel there can be some improvement in some of
the selection of the sites.
TRUSTEE KRUPSK!: Any~hing specific? We have a map if you want
to go over it.
MR. SAMUELS: I know them fairly well. One in particular.
Mattituck Inlet. The spoil is put immediately east of the east
jetty, and that beach is built up considerably. Thatts where
the Boy Scout Camp is. I believe that it should be piped
further east along that beach. There's a number of bulkhead
that have been built in recent years, the beach has been scoured
out. It's in the 'shadow of the jetty. The cost of doing that
will add very little to the dredging project. It's not a long
pump.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It was scoured right there in the shadow of
the jetty.
MR. S.AMUELS: It must have been right after the big storm,
because that beach is built pretty well.
Board of Trustees 17 July 28, 1994
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think the bluff area has been scoured, out,
but we'll take that into consideration. I think their concern
is for the sand to keep moving to the east, like yours is, to
keep moving to the east, but I think the want to impact directly
underneath the jetty.
MR. SAMUELS: If in fact that's their goal, then they certainly
will achieve it there, but the areas to the east of Bailey's
Beach Road is narrowing up remarkably. Especially I would say
approx. 1,000 feet east from that stretch on ..... On one of
your applicants tonight has a project before you which is to
some extent impacted by that east jetty. It's very difficult to
bypass these channels and I appreciate that the channel has to
be kept open. But there's enough material coming out o~ there
so that I think the area the Town's concern was to be protected
and not over built seaward moving the high water mark so far
seaward, maybe working on elevation a little bit, which can be
done relatively easy and run some stuff off further east for
that part of the beach which is in time gonna have to be .....
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You don't think that sand moves d6wn there?
MR. SAMUELS: It does, but it takes a long time and if your
gonna get a secession of serious storms in the meantime, while
it's moving, your gonna lose it. Whereas, you could build
that up. It's almost all stozm pavements north of the low water
mark. It'~s really gotten down to the nitty gritty on that
whole shoreline.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't think they plan on, when they rebuilt
that whole jetty, they planned on dredging that. There's
gonna be a little bit of maintenance dredging, then you
backfill. I don;t believe their gonna dredge the mouth of
that.
MR. SAMUELS: Well, it depends on the conditions at that time.
That will be a separate date. There's gonna be two bids.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, ~hey said they weren't going to.
TRUSTEE ~OLZAPF~L: Part of why we're having the hearing is that
the county is doing a massive re-doing of all of their
applications for dredging, generically and environmentally.
It's not only specifically this event but their building the
applications for the continuing process. So what their looking.
for is over the next 10 or 20 years what kind of applications
they want to have in place to take care of it. That's the kind
of input we're looking for.
MR. SAMUELS: That's why I'm speaking to the issue. Since we've
done so many of these dredging projects, and I have my own ideas
from practical experience, of what's wrong. Another one would
be Wickham Creek. Intermittently, Wickham Creek should be
pumped to the other side. We've had a number of projects before
you again, where I'm sure you recognize that that beach needs
nourishing. They're attempting to do it from Mudd Creek off
Broadwaters Creek. Periodically they go either side.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, that will be addressed. ~at's in the
works right now. In fact, I spoke with the County and when we
had Ray Cowan out also, everyone is in agreement that it
should be put on the east side there.
Board of Trustees 18 July 28, 1994
MR. SAMUELS: It can be balanced. I'd like to see the
flexibility in those pez~,~its where the decision can be made what
needs it. Richmond Creek. If you get a chance to look at the
plans you will see that there is a channel that's cut and it
leaves a bar which is ~bove high water to the east of the
channel, which means that that channel will fill just as quickly
as you get the first easterly. I would love to see a deposition
based where that bar is. Which will cut down your incidence of
~redging which is environmentally desirable. That bar should be
taken out. It's really a mistake.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is being done in the fall. The way the
DEC and the county. I don't think I have to tell you how they
mishandled the Richmond Creek dredging. It should have been
done this winter and it wasn't. I think they're gonna do it
the way they have permits in place to do it just to do it. I
think the channel should be shifted more towards the way the
water wants to come out of the creek so that it won't ..... if you
shift it to the side, it doesn't want to go to the side, it
wants to go the way it wants to go.
MR. SAMUELS: Follow the natural Channel which they have failed
to do on a number of casesr there's three jobs in Southampton
the same way. They insist on departing from the natural channel
and nature does not tolerate that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But that's what we wanted them to do. Move
that channel further to the east so that ..... directly it more to
the east towards Corey Creek, so that it will keep itself
open. The same with Little Creek. I would rather see that
moved over towards the north so that it keeps itself open. Now,
I don't know if your in favor of that.
MR. SAMUELS: We did manage this year, as you probably saw,
managed to come up further south on that beach, which is at
least an improvement, i understand that we had to twist some
arms to do that, but I understand that the other side needs some
help.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's another creek that we would like to go
both ways. It should alternate years, there.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I keep listening to us among ourselves
agreeing on what has to be done, and I know in come the other
players, in comes County dredge, seemingly everythinggets
loused up between here and there. I wonder if the time hasn't
come in this TOwn for people like ourselves who know the story
of these creeks and advise on how to do these jobs best. To sit
down with the County and sit down with people and sort of a
planning session before the year begins and decide how we're
gonna tackle these things, sort of like an advisory dredging
board, or something of that sort. Whether that wouldn't save
everybody, including the tax payers some money.
MR. SAMUELS: I think what happened, a point well taken, there's
no question that that's what we should do. In fairness to the
County, the County is working on 10 year dredge permits. And
the DEC has with this GEIS going forward will not issue any
changes pending the outcome of the GEIS. The guys at County who
are in charge of dredging are well aware of what we're talking
about. There is no flexibility in the system the way it is
Board of Trustees 19 July 28, 1994
now. Hopefully, what comes out of the $600,000 study will be
some flexibility. I would like to see on-site inspections prior
to the dredge jobs when they're started. Not 6 or 8 months
ahead of time, because what happens, and it's a classical
mistake. They dredge, there's a stozm, and your back where you
started from, and you dredge it the same way again. It's great
for the dredging business, but I really don't need the annuity.
Corey Creek is another one.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It tends to go west, coming out of there,
and the water is very quick through there. It's very sharp, it
just cuts it right out. It's fairly open. The channel stays
open because the water moves quickly.
MR. SAMUELS: I'd like to see the technique change slightly so
that the slopes on the side slopes are much shallower angling.
That's one of the problems, you come right to the edge of the
channel and its a one on three channel and it should be a one on
six or eight. Incidentally, that will be the best spot for
little neck clams three years after the project is done. Well,
with almost any of these channels, my channel which is Mudd or
Broadwaters, three years after the dredging you get such a
great bunch of nutrients right in those side slopes. That's
another one, Deep Hole Creek. This needs some help. It always
goes west. It builds a big bar, a 'tempolo', a big swirling
sand bar. That always builds up onthe west side. My
assumption is that periodically something ought to go to the
east side. The next creek up should be dredged. That's the one
the County dredged for years, that's the one where A1 Smith
lived.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why did they stop dredging that?
MR. SAMUELS: I'll be darned if I know. The argument at the
time was there wasn't enough of a launching ramp.
TRUSTEE KI{UPSKI: They stopped that years before that because
they didn't want to do Deep Hole. I think John Kujawski was on
the Board then.
MR. SAMUELS: Water quality back in there has really
deteriorated. It's just not good stuff at all.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You can't go in. The waters only 6 inches
deep.
MR. SAMUELS: The water quality in thers is pretty poor.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Has the DEC ever tested it? Is Hall's Creek
open?
MR. SAMUELS: I understand one of the property owners has an
application before you and is willing to pay for it. I think you
should use your good officers with the DEC because it would
reaIly improve the water quality in there, that's a real good
spot for shellfish.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That should be easy enough to test water
quality and shellfish resource.
MR. SAMUELS: Anytime I can give you any practical input ..... The
County does Cedar Creek up by the college all the time.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Any comments on Goldsmith's Inlet?
ME. SAMUELS: Sure. Goldsmith's should be dredged and spoil
should go to the east. It's going in minuscule quantities. The
Town dredges there and nourishes Kenny's Beach public beach and
Board of Tlu/stees 20 July 28, 1994
Town Beach, which is fine. It should be properly dredged and
periodically dredged or take the jetties out. Which we know has
been going on for at least 15 years. It's one time that the
County spent quite a bit of money there and we built a road to
the other side. Dragged line for ~bout 2 weeks, moved a lot of
material to the east side. That was a help. But they seem to
be reluctant to do it. Now the Town's doing it and needless to
say it's an expensive process.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It would be easier to let the tides carry it.
MR. SAMUELS: If you p'umped hydraulically, I would think it
would be easier. Again, you got got a water quality problem
back in there. So there are a couple of problem spots that
judicious dredging might do improve some situations.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other creek?
MR. SAMUELS: I have opinions on all of them, but I remember
years ago, when I started out I spent a lot time with Duke
Latham who most of you know. We used to do much of the drag
line around most of the creeks for the Town and there was a lot
of dredging that took place that shouldn't have taken place.
One of the points he made was water quality and it's so easy to
see when it starts to deteriorate and you certainly see it in
yield as far as shellfishing is conCerned. ! think it's like a
question of which side you put the sand, I think you have to be
site specific and you got to be realistic about what ..... it's
not just boating that we're doing this stuff for. I think it's
important to keep flushing these creeks because there's
development all around all of them, we're not gonna stop that,
it done, so we have to live with that problem, if it is a
problem, and those who live there say its not a problem, but at
least we have to keep recognizance of the need to keep water
quality high, and that's one way to do it. There's going to be
enough pressure for dredging with boating and so on and so
forth. But I think the Trustee's have to look at it a little
beyond that. It's all your bottom and that's what we pay you
the big bucks for.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We had the same public hearing at least weeks
meeting and a fellow was here from Orient. And that little
creek that comes into Orient Harbor, he said the state had
dredged that a hundred years ago. He thought that should be
dredged and its spoil placed up on the beach in front of him to
slow down the erosion. What he said made sense. He wasn't
gonna come up and say don't do it, he wanted it done.
Naturaliy what he said made sense, but none of us was familiar
with it.
MR. SAMUELS: I think there's another misconception that there's
a lot people who thi~k that the Town is dredging.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Someone came in inside of Eugenes Creek on
Little Neck and got a sand bar in front of there.
MR. SAMUELS: End or south.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. What's your feelings on having the
County come in and maintenance the channels.
MR. SAMUELS: Ken's a personal friend of mine and I've fixed his
docks a couple of times and I can only tell you what I told him
and that is that that was one of those areas that was originally
Board of Trustees 21 July 28, 1994
dredged when you could go right through a marsh. Now you have a
shoal on the outside of it and I don't think that the County
will spend the money to i~u,obilize a hydraulic dredge because
the spoil would have to go over on Fleet's Neck Beach I guess.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That was the problem originally wasn't the
dredging that filled in the marsh with the spoil. I spoke to
Bill Shannon in the County ~hout that he thought they could do
it.
MR. SAMUELS: It certainly is desirable to do it because again
it's a water quality' problem. There's another one on the other
side where Mike Lo Grande lives and there's a silt problem
there. Maybe you could put some of those together. The county
will certainly look at everything that the Supervisor requested
them to but it's expensive. Unless your gonna move a lot of
yardage
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, which doesn't look like it. Mr. De La
Salle said he has a 17' boat, It's not like he's trying to
move the Queen Mary in there. Some people want to get a 50'
boat in there. He's not being unreasonable at all.
MR. SAMUELS: I know we were in there setting pilings for those
two homes in there in the Spring and we got in at high tide and
we couldn't get out of the tide. It's a real bar there.
There's several other places like that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any Board member have any feeling on that
issue.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think what we should do is sit down at
some point at a work session and go through each one and take
public comments and draw up a statement that we want to send
on. It might take a month or two. There's no big rush for this.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other co~Lm~ent then? I'll entertain a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: So moved.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll entertain a motion to go off public
hearings.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE ALBERT$ON: SeCond ALL AYES
IV. ASSESSMENTS/ENVIRONMENTAL DECLARATIONS:
I. THEODORE RETIKAS requests a Coastal Erosion & Wetland
Permit to place 52' of rock wall to prevent erosion, construct a
14' X 20' deck and a 4' high fence on.west side of property and
a 6' high fence on east side of property. Located 52755
Soundview Ave., Southold. SCTM 9135-1-27
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to give a negative declaration.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES
2o Karen Oxholm on behalf of WILLIAM & GEORGIA MANOS
requests a Wetland' Pezmit to construct a two-storydwelling.
Plans include to retain as much vegetation as possible and
foundation to be constructed on slope of land eliminating full
height of basement construction. Located north side of
Board of Trustees 22 July 28, 1994
Soundview Ave., Southold, 606' west of Horton Lane. SCTM
954-5-46.1
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to give a negative declaration.
TRUSTEE ALRERT$ON seconded. ALL AYES
3. Robert Brown Architect on behalf of pETER MC HUGH requests
a Coastal Erosion & Wetland Permit to const~ct a 4' X 12' deck,
8- 4' X 6' stairs, 4- 4' X 6' platforms and 2- 4' X 8' platforms
as shown on survey dated June 30, 1994. Located Kill Crest
Drive, north, Orient. SCTM 913-2-8.19
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to give
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to give a negative declaration.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES
4. Proper-T Services on behalf of RONALD STRITZLER to
construct a 410' long retaining wall typically 6' above grade,
with returns at each end. Length of returns estimated from
survey to be 12' at west end and 22' at east end, actual lengths
to be determined during construction by intersection of top of
retaining wall with face of bluff. Smooth face of bluff, in
accordance with recommendations of Suffolk County Soil & Water
Conservation Department, to permit Vegetation and minimize
further erosion from run-off, use material resulting from
smoothing as backfill behind retaining wall. Located 3055
Soundview Ave., Rattituck. SCTM 994-1-14
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to give a negative declaration under
conditions that retaining wall be completely covered with sand
and vegetated.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
5. En-Consultants on behalf of LOUIS CORSO to construct 460+
1.f. of armored timber retaining wall plus (2) 12' angles
returns. Wall will be at toe of bluff and will be armored with
2 courses of 1-3 ton stone on filter cloth. A 6~ wide splash
pad landward of wall will consist of 8- 12" stone on filter
cloth. Approx. 200 c.y. of cleans sand will be brought in via
Duck Pond Road. Applicant attempted to stabilize the bluff by
plantings only but failed. Unless the toe is stabilized, slope
will continue to move. Following installation of wall, slope
will again be planted in accordance with plan of S.C.S.W,D.
Located 1020 Glenn Road, Cutchogue. SCTM 983-2-10.4, 10.5 &
10.6
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to give a negative declaration under
condition that retaining wall be completely covered with sand
and revegetated.
TRUSTEEALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
V. RESOLUTIONS:
1. Larry Matzen on behalf of G~/~DINERS BAY ESTATES requests
a Grandfather Permit to repair 261' of bulkhead and docking that
adjoins the bulkhead under Permit 93818. Located Spring Po~d,
East Marion. SCTM ~37-4-17
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Grandfather Permit.
Board of Trustees 23 July 28, 1994
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON seconded. AT.T. AYES
2. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of THOMAS W. RUSSELL, JR.
requests a Coastal Erosion Permit to reconstruct and upgrade an
existing rock revetment by installing a 65' X 18' rock slope.
Two to four ton boulders shall be utilized by placing them atop
filter fabric and a I' layer of rock chips (4-6" tailings) and a
1 to 1 1/2 slop will be created. No grout of any type will be
used and any disturbed areas will be filled with loam and
seeded. Located Fox Ave., Fishers Island. SCTM $6-1-2
3. ANN LENCESKI & ELIZABETH SHALVEY requests a Grandfather
Permit to replace an existing 75' bulkhead inkind/inplace
built in 1965. Located 3700 Minnehaha Blvd., Southold.
SCTM $87-3-5
TRUSTEE WENCZEL moved to approve the Grandfather Permit with a
i0' non-turf vegetated buffer.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI abstained.
4. J. Kevin Mc Laughlin on behalf of MARY HOPE LO CASTRO
requests a Grandfather Permit for a 90' existing bulkhead.
Located 2400 Park Ave., Mattituck. SCTM $123-8-12
TRUSTEE WENCZEL moved to approve the Grandfather Permit.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES
Meeting Adjourned at 9:45 p.m.
Respectfully Submitted By:
Diane I. Herbert, Clerk
COUNTY OF SUFFOLK
DEPARTMENT OF HEALTh SEI:tVICE$
17, I993
Messrs. Chr~.qtopl~er M. and W,~l~am Connom
340 $¢richo Tump~ce
Floral park, N. Y. II001
Deo. r M¢,ssrs~. Conno~:
MAI~'Y ~' HIBBE:RO. M.D~ M~PJ~
Board of Review Hearing - October 7, 1993
87 S0-93, Property W/$ We~t Drive, 85 F~t N/0 Lake Drip,
Southold, SCTM [000-59-5-29.3.
~nctosed i.q a copy of the Board of Re~ri~w's ~nrHngS, recomm~nrl-~oms and det~rn~na~on
concerning the subject
Based on the ~nfo~mation sub,..kted, the Board g~anted thc ~equcst for variance with the
provisions indicated in the determination.
The granting of thi.q waiver dees not imply, that your application will be autom~t~cally approved.
It is your responsibility to ensure that your at~lication is complet~; otherwise, your approval will
1~ ~bject to urmec~ary delay.
Very truly yom,
Dennis Moran,
Chairman
Board of Review
DM/Ir
Enclo~um
cc: Board of Rc-~-iew File - ~ead
1~. Su~an D.
Mr. Royal R. R~nelcl~,
/-
lame~ Manes, F_zq
Daniel C. Ro~, F. sq.
co m- oF sm vzcss
Article 2, Section 760-220, Sm~nr County ~an/mry Code
To:
Mary E. I-h'btm~t, M.D., M.P~I.
C°mm~ien~r
From:
Moran, P.E.
Chainnm, Board of Rc-vi~
Report of Fina~ugs and Recomm~nd~ons of the Rev~w Board Rcgard~g:
87 S0-93, Pzol~rry W/S We~t Ddt, 85 F~t N/0 Lake Drive,
Southold, SCTM 1000-59-5-29.3.
Claistoph~r M. and William ~onner~ 340 Iericho
Floral padr. N. Y. 11001
Notice of Heating:. Septemb~ 24, 1993 - FIe~;,,g Da~e: October 7, 199~
Statement of Problem
The dep~,u~ent's comu~ction su~idards ~ m~ subsoil conditiom and
conditiom b~ condnch~ to th~ proper ftmctio,~g of ~ab~fac~ sewag~ ~ sysmnm. Th~
sit~ has peor soil and/or groundwamr co~a;~om. Propes~d l~,-~-g poelz ~EI b~ ~ than
f~t from area wkich p~odically flood~.
F'mdin~s and Facts
The following facts
- The lot is pa~t of a t972 subdivision; --
* Itwas noted fha, Town decumems imdica~ conc~t~M ~aI was imsu~ iu 1974;
- Mt. Connor~ p,a~a,~ed th~ ~ in 1987 for $57,0(~;,
...-
- A ~'~aaz bu~,~,~g lm:oj~Ct ~a~ gran~ ~ in i97~;
-Town T~ am ~,khholcling ftmh~ com~d~ation on th~
Findings and Facts (cont'd)
· AFplicant h~ been ksraed orde~ of violation by the town to stop filling of Land;
· NYSDEC had deiaied wetland's pemait, however, based upon an Article 78 action, the
applicant was ~ted an exem!xio~
2.
The following docu2m. ~ were provided by the appticaxm
- August 19, 1992 le]tter report prepared by Brace Andemon Environmental Comultmat;
nmen ~ml Trap '
- Draft Emriro act Statement by Roy Haje, En-Comultanta;
· Article 78 judgement of the State Supreme Court (Hon. Thomas M. Stark). The suit was
re~olved by ~ent of the N-fSDEC to issue an exemption to the applicant pur~nt to
ECL 24--1305, th~ allowi~g construction of a single family ~sidence.
October 4, 19931Ie.' ,~ submitted to the Board f~,,m Witll .... G. Albemon, Tovm Traztee,
regarding the ~ed development. Conce~ wa~ ext~e~-d that portions of the prope~.
comisted of we~dz subject to 3ea,sonal floodillg. The Board of Town Trustee s r-~olufio.n.
d_.ted 1/27/89 was,,!~l.qo furnished which recornmend~s di~at:~mvaI of the l:rrojec~.
Subjec~ R~por~ of Finding~ and Recommendations of the Re~iew Board
87 $0-93, Property W/~ W~t Drive,
Southold. SCTM 100~-59-5-29:3.
Findings and Fscts (cont'd)
· A re, vised site plan dnt~t 10/7.3/92 with a proposed five pool .~hullow ~mitary ~.~ wilh
r~mining wall. Depauuent staff indicated that the design is th~
vrkh the at:~licanCs repreme~'ut/ve and Mr. Sm~e~
7. Building site is 20,000 square f~-~t in
8. Site is in Groundwater Management Zone ~ IV.
9. Area is zoned A=Resifl~.
I0. Public water is not a~/itable.
i~ one-bnlF a mile fro~ he site.
11. Depth to groundwaml
12. Softs ae loamy sand (
De. ruination
It was a 3 to 0 detennim
at~plicant in~ull.~ the exl:
It should b~ noted th~ B~
~ can b~ adequ~
· ~knowtedge~ that wetla
c~msideration of the Board
aStaieSUlx~me Counjudl
x~gutatiens and cannot ov
DM/k
Ske is w~i~ the Gre~koon W.S., I:~ neal~t wale~ wain
about ZS feet based upon test hole.
~ 1.6 feet; bxowubog I-fi to 2.7 fe~t; coarse sand 2.7 to 9 feet.
m of the Boa~ to ~ tl~ rex~.t ~ the variance, pm~cled ~
~'s ~ ~ ~ ~y ~n ~ ~e of w~ a ~
~~ to ~t ~ ~b~ ~ ~ ~ B~
muy ~ lo~, ho~ ~e ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ not ~ ~ ~
~ ~ ~SDEC h~ .~ m ~ ~ ~ ~ ~.
Albert J. Krupski. President
John Holzapfel, Vice President
William G. Albertson
Martin H. Garrell
Peter Wenczel
BOA RD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Town Hall
53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Telephone (516) 765-1892
Fax (516) 765-1823
July 29, 1994
Mr. Christopher Connors
340 Jericho Tpke.
Floral Park, NY 11001
Re: SCTM ~59-5-29.3
Dear Mr. Connors:
The following action was taken by the Board of Town Trustees during
its regular, meeting held on Thursday, July 28, 1994 regarding the
above matter:
WHEREAS, CPIRISTOPPM~R CONNORS applied to the Southold Town Trustees
for a .permit u/~der the provisions Df the Wetlaud Ordinance of the
Town of Southold, original application dated May 22, 1987 and,
WHEREAS said application was referred to the Southold Town
Conservation Advisory Council for their findings and recoaa~endations,
and,
WHEREAS, a public hearing was hel~by the Town Trustees with respect
to the revised application on Thursday July 28, 1994 at which time
all interested persons were givenlan opportunity to be heard, and,
WqIEREAS, the Board members have p~rsonallyvie~ed and are familiar
with the premises in question andthe surrounding area, and,
WHEREAS, the Board has considered/all the testimony and documentation
submitted concerning this application, and, .
WHEREAS, the subject parcel lies ~i~b~' flood zone A-7 as shown on
the survey of Roderick Van Tuyl, P.C..., dated July 15, 1994,
WHEREAS, the subject parcel cont~4ns an area of 20,000 square feet
with a front and width of 133.33 feet and a depth on both sides of
150.79 feet,
WHEREAS, the applicant seeks to construct a single family dwelling of.
2,200 square feet with on-site sanitar~ system, driveway, and
waterproof ret~%n4ng walls; and grading all as shown on the ~hcve
mentioned survey dated July 15, 1994,
WHEREAS, the environmental assessment form submitted by the applicant
states the depth to the water table as between ten inches and 1.1
foot,
WHERW. AS, the applicant' s consultant, in the supplemental report to
the DEIS, admitted that 66% of the parcel is freshwater wetland and
that a large portion of the remaining parcel contagns a mix of
wetland and upland vegetation,
WHEREAS, from a personal inspection of the parcel by the Board and
its .consultant, it is the finding and conclusion of the Board that
"nearly all of the lot is freshwater wetlands",
WI4Fi~EAS, the only non-wetlands area on this lot was found adjacent-to
West Drive and this non-wetlands area is viewed as a transitional
area (and) extends approximately forty feet from the road, (Anderson,
environmental consultant to the Board, 8/19/92),
WHEREAS, the report of Tsontakis Associates (an environmental
consulting fizzy, that concludes from an environmental perspective, the
subject site is unbuitd~hl~), shows the freskwater wetlands to be
over 75% of the parcel,
WHEREAS, the above mentioned survey together with the applicant's
vegetative map shows the sanitary system located on freshwater
wetlands and the septic system will be required to be 2 feet above
ground water which will require the excavation and the filling of
wetlands,
WHEREAS, the septic system will require being surrounded by a minimum
of eight feet of waterproof concrete retaining wall which will extend
approximately 44 feet on the south and another 44 feet on the west
side of the septic system, all-of this area resides in the freshwater
wetlands,
WHEREAS, the septic system will then have to be covered with fill to
a height of aimcst 6 feet and then gradually graded which will result
in the loss of an even greater amount of wetlands,
WHEREAS, the Board of Town Trustees agree with the many significant
advantages of small freshwater wetlands made in the p~htication,
Wildlife Benefits Associated With Selected Smaller Freshwater
Wetlands In Suffolk County prepared by Steven San~ord, a senior
Wildlife Biologist with New York State Depar~ent of Environmental
Conservation which is included with this statement,
WHEREAS, the subject site is one half acre of a freshwater wetland
system which is much large=,
WHEREAS, it concludes a stretch of land from Goldsmith's Inlet to
Kenny's Road, a distance of approximately 1/2 mile which includes
Great Pond,
WHEREAS, the small size ~f the parcel 20,000 square feet, which is
substantially freshwater w~tlands, csnnot support the proposed
project without destruction of over half of ~he wetland area,
WHEREAS, the applicant claims the destruction of only 3,000 square
feet,
WHEREAS, it is the Southold Town Board of Trustees find_tng and
conclusion based on the project as sho~u~ on the applicant's July 15,
1994 survey Shat a greater area will be destroyed, and much of the
remaining wetlands and groundwater will be clearly and unequivocally
endangered by the proposed, sanitary system and altered rainfall
run-off from the project,
WHEREAS, the maintenance of the proposed five pool shallow septic
system will be problematic due to the widespread boggy underlyinq
soils found in the area of the septic system and'the seasonal and
yearly fluctuation of the groundwater elevation,
WHEREASr the septic effluents (nitrates, detergents, etc.) will also
have an easy path into the groundwater and surface waters of the
entire surrounding area due to the fact that only two feet of sand
are required between the septic system and the groundwate~ at this
time,
WHEREAS, the subject parcel is at a ver~ tow elevation and is in very
close contact with the groundwater as stated abov~ and occasionally
parts of this parcel contain standing water,
WHEREAS, any contamination by sanitary system malfunction on this
parcel could cause direct and ~muediate contamination of groundwater
in the surrounding area including Great Pond (approximately 400 feet
to the south) which is used year round as a day or residential
environmental cap by Suffolk County and whose property lies directly
adjacent to the applicant's parcel,
WHEREAS, Co~LLissioner Thomas Jorling, New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation, in adopting the findings and conclusions
of an ALJ of that agency rendered after a full hearing i/lvolving
the applicant's pe~it, stated in his decision that "The Applicant's
potential for problems identified with the operation of the
Applicant's septic system make it impossible to conclude that the
project would be compatible with the public health and welfare...",
WHEREAS, the Conservation Advisory Council of the town of Southold
recommend the denial of this application on environmental principles,
W~REAS, the Board of Town Trustees believes that a smaller single
family home could be built on the northwest corner of this parcel
with a contained or closed sanitary system or clivus multrum
(composting toilet) system that would not require the filling and
destruction of freshwater wetland~ for a.sanital-y systen~,
WHEREAS, the Board of Town Trustees has compared and weighed the
adverse environmental impacts with the social and economic impacts of
this project and finds and concludes that the impacts of this project
do not outweigh the need to protect these wetlands ~d the general
welfare of the people of this town,
WHEREAS, The Board of Tow~ Trustees finds that this project will
according to the standards of Chapter 97-28:
Adversely affect ~he wetlands of the Town
Adversely affect fish, shellfish or other beneficial marine
orgariisms, aquatic wildlife and vegetation or the natural
habitat thereof
I. Otherwise adversely affect the health, safety snd general
welfare of the people of the Town,
NOW, THEREFORE BE IT
RESOLVED that the Board of Trustees denies the application that is
currently before this Board without prejud4ce of CHRISTOP~T~
CONNORS to construct a single familydwelling with associated
.sanitar~ system as per map dated November 3, 1993 and revised July
15, 1994. Located: West Drive, southold. SCTM 959-5-29.3
Very truly yours,
Krupski, Jr.
President, Board of Trustees
AJK/dj h
cc. C.A.Co
Roy Reynolds, SC~D
Building Dept.
Zoning Board
Town Attorney
Wickham, Wickham & Bressler, Attorneys
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTHOLD TO~ CLERK
Town Clerk, Town of Southotd