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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-04/28/1994Albert J. Krupski, President Town Hall John Holzapfel, Vice President 53095 Main Road William G. Albertson P.O. Box 1179 Martin H. Garrell Southold, New York 11971 Peter Wenczel Telephone (516) 765-1892 Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MINUTES APRIL 28, 1994 PRESENT WERE: Albert J. Krupski, Jro, President John Holzapfel, Vice-President Peter Wenczel, Member Martin Garrell, Member Jill Doherty, Clerk ABSENT WAS: William Albertson, Member Worksession: 5:00 P.M. Board spoke with Anthony Tohill and Merlon Wiggin with regard to Narrow River Marina Markers. The Board agreed to work something out for temporary markers for this season only. Then applicant will have to come in for the full process for the following seasons. Board continued down worksession agenda CALL MEETING TO ORDER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Thursday, May 26, 1994 at 7 P.M. Worksession: 6:00 P.M. NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Thursday, May 19, 1994 at 12:00 P.M. Worksession: after field Insp. APPROVE MINUTES: February 24, 1994 and March 24, 1994 regular meetings. I. MONTHLY REPORT: Trustees monthly report for March 1994: A check for $13,810.38 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund. II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for review. III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES: ~Board of Trustees 2 April 28, 1994 1. John Nickles on behalf of BEIXEDON ESTATES re~aest an amendment to permit ~255 for maintenance dredging of approximately 475 c.y. of shoaled material from the inlet to Petty's Pond to a depth of 6' below MLW, to run concurrent with the DEC permit which runs out August 23, 1998. Previous approval has been given from the Trustees to expire February 3, 1997. Located Ashamomaque Avenue, Southold. 966-3. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRELL to approve as long as spoil is placed on west side. ALL AYES. 2. JOHN DEMPSEY request a one year extension to permit %1965 for a 6' X 20' float to expire May 21, 1995. Applicant finally has all other permits. Contractor cannot do the work until fall. Located Meday Ave., Mattituck. %113-8-14.2 A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE WENCZEL to table this application to review the file for completeness. ALL AYES. 3. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of WILLIAM RILEY request an amendment to permit %4061 to install a 145' rock revetment instead of the approved timber bulkhead. Located Cedar Point Drive West, West Lake, Southold. %90-1-4. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by' TRUSTEE GARRELL to table this application for an accurate survey. ALL AYES. 4. Land Use on behalf of JOHN BURNS to amend~ permit %4152 to add 4' X 3' stairs at the beginning of the fixed dock, add electric and water lines to the end of the fixed dock, and repositicn the proposed 6' X 20' floating dock in a north-south configuration, instead of west-east. Located 755 Lighthouse Lane, Southold. %70-6-31. CAC reco~=~ended approval with conditions that the new configuration does not intrude into the creek. After discussion a motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE WENCZEL to grant this amendment subject to 20' from end of dock to be greater than 3' in depth. This shall not impede navigation. ALL AYES. 5. Eh-Consultants on behalf of PAUL RACANO request an amendment to permit 94217 to move the following northwest of original survey: Construct a 4' X 72' fixedelevated walk (4' above grade of marsh) a 3' X 16' hinged ramp, a 6' X 10' float with a 6' X 30' outer float arranged in a "T" configuration. A 4' X 60' path will be cut through brush on slope leading to dock and surfaced with wood chips. Located 1265 Calves Neck Road, Southold. SCTM ~63-7-35. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRELL to approve amendment. ALL AYES. 6. JOHN J. BOPP requests an amendment to permit ~3795 submitted by previous owner RoScoe COrey to raise the height of the dock and the catwalk to 3 1/2' above the ground level, and the 4 6" locust stakes will be replaced with 6" pressure Board of Trustees 3 April 28, 1994 treated poles, an additional 6' X 16' floating dock 12' away from the current dock held by 2 6-8" pressure treated poles, a 3' wide ramp connected the dock to the floating dock. Located 830 Clearview Road, Southold, ~89-3-11.5 A motion was made by TRUSTEE WENCZEL and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to table this application for soundings as this is a substantial change from existing permit. ALL AYES. 7. Robert Kirk on behalf of CLUB WAVE request a waiver to construct a grade level cement slab that is 24' X 7' for a Teeki Bar. Drainage will go into current approved septic system. Located off South side of Rte. 25, Southold, east of Port of Egypt. 356-6-7. A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE WENCZEL to deny the waiver and request a full application. ALL AYES. IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS: THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN TEE MATTER OF T~E FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF T~E TOWN OF SOUTEOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE SUFFOLK TIMES AND AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FORM THE LONG ISLAND TRAVELER-WATC~AN. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM T~E PUBLIC. PLEASE KEEP YOUR CO55~V~S ORGANIZED A~ND BRIEF: FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS, IF POSSIBLE TRUSTEE Ki~SKI: Due to clerical error the following public hearing was not published, however the public hearing will be held tonight, kept open and published for the May 26, 1994 regular meeting. Lawrence Matzen on behalf of GARDINERS BAY ESTATES to install stairs, 3' X 25' catwalk, 3' X 12' ramp, one 4' X 48' main float, two 3' X 14' and one 6' X 16' finger floats, pilings. Located end Of DogwoOd Lane right-of-way south of Bayview Drive, East Marion. SCTM 337-4-17. Would anyone here like to speak against this application? Would anyone here like to speak in favor of this application? LARRY MATZEN: I have gone over this before on past meetings. The last the meeting was a meeting in January. You had spoken of all those papers from the last few years and told us what you wanted to now about it. I have not heard anything from anybody. One thing, the CAC was against this fromthe very beginning. They called it a marina. I talked to Bruce (Loucka), I don't know what his meeting was two days ago. I think they are in favor of it know. Another thing it is only 4 boats going with two fingers. There is ~an existing 6' X 16' finger now. (changed tape) TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: A couple of weeks ago we met with Ray Cowan who is the regional director of DEC. Their interpretation of a marina, whether it is a association marina or a commercial marina, they view your marina shellfish closure wise as they ~oard of Trustees 4 April 28, i994 would a commercial marina. I am sure that is where that comes from. L. MATZEN: They have never called us marina. If you say boats in the water, that is a marina. They have called us a boat basin right along. They have never called us a marina. Are you going to go by the Town laws or what DEC is saying? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, I am just trying to clear that one point up. I am not making an issue of that. I am just trying to clarify that. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: what he is trying to say at the same time is that the DEC will consider it perhaps a marina. If they do that, that has built into it certain shellfish closure requirements. They might have to close that area to shellfishing because of the fact that the boats are there. That is all they are saying. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You should know as owners of the bottom, you should be concerned with. That is your concern because you are the owners of the bottom. CHARLES LUSCHER: I believe the bottom has been closed to shellfishing. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Alright, thank you. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Just to be sure. What A1 read was a little bit different than what you said. Am I correct? L. MATZEN: We are asking for one floating dock with two fingers added onto one that is already there. We are not adding six boats we are only adding four boats. We are willing to limit, I said this before that I will put this in writing, we are willing to limit one boat per person for an upland member. Last year it was only ten. You don't fill up a place.complete. Everybody doesn't have a boat that lives in a certain area. There are 31 water front people and only 26 boats. One has four boats and one another guy has two. We will never get to the point where we are going to put in enough boats to cover everybody. According to our deeds they have a right to go on ~ur lake. That is why we would consider only one boat per upland member and not to add any more boats than these four on that property. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: In your deed is it the right to access that or is that the right to build a structure? L. MATZEN: We own the bottom. In another words we are allowed to put a boat in. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All right, other concerns I had. I have considered it a marina, I always have and you know that. One of the things that I would like put on there are marina t~pe restrictions. Such as C&R's added to the property that no boat would have a marine toilet docked at that facility and that this wouldn't be used at a boat storage area. We only have 75' of jurisdiction. Which you probably have some further property towards the road. We wouldn't want to see that used as a boat storage facility or people repairing boats on that property there. L. MATZEN: We have a 16' work boat there right now. We don't have any other place to put it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is that an association owned boat? Board of Trustees 5 April 28~ 1994 L. F~ATZEN: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well what I was thinking of was that the six or ten boats being moored there being parked there every ye~r and people scrapping the bottoms and draining the oil and all the associated maintenance that goes along with that. L. MATZE~: Noo We don't allow that. We don't allow operable/f~ush over board marine toilets either. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: $o you wouldn't have a problem with us putting that on a permit? L. MATZEN: That's fine. TRUSTEE KRUPSKt: Does anyone else have any questions? TRUSTEES: ~o. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: I apologize for the inconvenience of b~ving you come back ~ext month. L. MATZEN: Do you want it in writing about the limit of one boat per upland member. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: No. What we want is that no boats be stored there and no marine toilets. That is what I would like to see. In that case that would have the same type of control that we have over a commercial marina. L. MATZEN: We also have another rule that you are not allowed to sleep overnight on a boat. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Any approval that might come of this would be strictly iimi~ed to this application. It would not be a precedent s~tting thing. If you wanted to expand the next year. L. ~ATZEN: ~oh one would be an individual thing. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I just want to make sure you understand that we are reviewing this exclusively to add four boats~inand nothing else. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Without any further comment, I take a motion to recess the hearing. TRUSTEE WENCZELL: So moved. TRUSTEE HOLZ~FEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 7:46 P.~. In the matter of DANIEL B. LYONS request a wetland permit to construct a 6' X 16' float, a 3' X I4' ramp an~ a 3~ X 10' platfozm with 2 pilings. Located Lot 71 cedar Beach park at Bayview~ Southold. Is there anyone h~re to speak in ~avor of this application? Is there anyone here to speak against this application? CAC comments: Th~ council rec0~m~ends approval with the stipulation tha~ the project does not impede the navigation of others. The CAC suggest that the applicant plant the exposed bank with spartina alterna flora or spartina patents. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Move to close the hearing TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion to approve the application along with the CAC Comments. TRUSTEE ~ARRELL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 7:50 P.M. - In the matter of ANNA STALZER request a wetland permit to const~act inkind 100' of timber bulkhead, within 18" of existing bulkhead and backfill with Board of Trustees 6 April 28, 1994 approx~ 40 c.y. of clean fill. Located 6190 Peconic Bay Blvd., Laurel. 128-2-5. Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of this application? ts there anyone who would like to speak against this application? CAC recommends approval with stipulations that the applicant plant beach grass at the ten foot flat area behind the bulkhead for stabilization. TRUSTEE HOLZA~.FEL: Motion to close hearing. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE GARRELL: A motion to approve subject to the recommendations to the CAC. TRUSTEE H©LZA~FEL: Second. ALL AYES. ~RUSTEE KRUPSKI: 7:51 P.M. - In the matter of DAVID GORDON requests a wetland permit to construct additions and alterations to residence as per survey dated Dec. 7, 1993. Located N.E. Side of Bungalow Lane, Mattituck. #123-3-i0. ~outd anyone here who would like to make any comments in favor of this application? Is there anyone here who would like to comment against this application? CAC reco~£~,ended approval with'conditions. The Council recommend approval provided the applicant instatla berm to contain runoff on the property also keep all new Septic installations at least 150' from the wetland line. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I had a questions about the septic system. It is on road side. I will go along with the CAC col~,,ents. TRUSTEE You would go along with the regrading? TRUSTEE Yes. TRUSTEE We have to be really specific about this CAC recommendations are really vague. TRUSTEE Do you want to clarify that Bruce? CAC- BRUCE'LOUCKA: I can not, because I didn't see it. TRUSTEE~KRUPSKI: We can not just say that, because we can end up with a structure~anywhere. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I was there during snow cover. So I don't know. Can we table it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You can approve the permit subject to review of the prop~sat s~bject to the soil conservation and recommend that the applicant ~°ilows there recol~lendations. Unless you can be specific, there is no sense. TRUSTEEHOLZAPFEL: ~otion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE W~NCZEL: Seconded. ALL A~S. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I make a motion to approve the permit of David Gordon subject to the placement of stakedhay bales on the property at the 10' contour line and follow the recommendations of the Soil Conservation Service. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE Kt~UPSKI: 7:58 p.m. - In the matter of CORNELL COOPERATIVEEXTENSION to conduct scientific research relating to the growth of cordgrass in fixed height intertidal shelves. In order to conduct this research we must construct four intertidal wooden shelves to hold sand as per plans Board of Trustees 7 April 28, 1994 submitted. Located Suffolk County Marine Environmental Learning Center, Cedar Beach, Southold. Is there anyone here who like to comment in favor or against this application? I know the Board has reviewed this would anyone like to make a comment on this? TRUSTEES: No. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. I will entertain a motion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL A1~S. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to approve the application. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 7:59 - In the matter of SUZANNE SWICK requests to construct a one family dwelling' with associated sanitary system. Selective pruning will be done by hand. All in accordance with revised survey dated March 23, 1994. Located Route 25, East Marion, East of Causeway on North side. 423-1-6.i Would anyone like to comment on behalf of this application? ANTHONY TOHILL: GOOd evening Mr~ Chairman. I am Anthony Tohill. I am the attorney for the Swicks. ~is matter was on public hearing calendar on January 27, 1994 at which time Mr. Ross, who is present here this evening, appeared on behalf of the Delanos who a~ immediately adjacent neighbor to the south of the proposod construction site. As a result Of Which the Board continued the survey be amended so as to show specifically the location of t~e wetlands line and also the proposed 'septic system landward of 100' from the standing wate~ as. per the Suffolk CoUnty Code requires. Each Of those Changes have now been there is only one remaining issue. ~ich is the question of whether or not Mr. Ross' of January of Section 239~4 of the Zoning ordinance is argument. You will remember that Mr. Ross said that this property, the site adjacent Dam Pond is actually adjacent the Long Island Sound and therefore the construction of the residence is limited to a point 100 feet landward of the edge of the bank. Using the'word bank to mean same as it does 239.4, the word bluff. I don't wish to be lengthy because I know this is the Trustees, this is not the Zoning Board or the Building Department. I don't think that the argument has any length at all to it. If you can just make a not that before you read section 239.4. a, which is all that was read in January, that you first read section 239,4 b. You will see what is happening. The Town Board didn't forget Dam Pon~ at all. It said that "Tidal Waters other than Sounds" from the language, of the Town. After those there are three exceptions. One, where the 75' setback, where the tidal water from the sound. There there are three exceptions. One the applicant building landward Of an existing structure. Looking at the Van T~yl survey you will see that the border as you move south first there is the beach, then there is the bluff or bank, then there is the coastal erosion hazard line clearly shown on the left hand side of the Van Tuyl survey. That is a matter of law thru the Town of Southold under the Town Code is 25' landward of the landward ~oard of Trustees 8 April 28, 1994 toe of the bluff or bank along the Long Island Sound. Then there is the existing Swick residence. So if the Swicks with this application called in the first exception under 239.4 b, then it would be except automatically. However, the property is not bulkheaded and therefore it doesn't fall within that exception. It does fall within the reasoning, but it is not squarely within the exception. If falls within the next exception which specifically says applications that brought before the Trustees under Chapter 97 of the Southold Towr~ Code. That is how they are hear. They therefore fall into the second exception. They are in Tidal Water not the Sound. The Town BOard meant to say what it said in subsection b. So, everyone when you have a chance to read that different code, I thir~ you will see why the argument initially on the 27th of January might have been mysterious at best. It is not mysterious at all. The code if fully able to handle itself. The Town Board new what it was doing. That subsection a doesn't even apply. I know Mr. Ross is itching to diminish ev~r~ part of me, so I am going to give him that opportunity right now. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Would anyone else like to speak in favor of this application? Would anyone like to speak against this application? DAN ROSS: yes, Dan Ross. I am acting for the Delanos to the south of the property. First off 100-239.4 a (1) doesn't speak oX just bluffs, it speaks specifically to a bank. The bank has been located and identified on the map of the applicant. It was on the previous map. It has been since then, I don't think there is any question that it is a bank. By in. effect their own admission. The property does boarder the SoUnd. The house as it is set out here iS located within about 40~ o'f the bank. This is a questi0nthat falls squarely and strictly within the black letter of that zoning code section that prohibits a house within a 100' of the top of bank with respect to lots that boarder the Sound. I suggest that if there is going to be some interPretatio~ of the zoning code, it should be done by the ZBA with respect to an application for a variance in this case. That is the first point. The second point is, as far as I know is the CAC recommendation that it be located 75' from the bank, has not changed. Consequently as far as I can see this is still adverse to the CAC's recommendations. I suggest that issuance of a permit in accordance with this application is only going to confuse any potential purchaser. I don't know if the'applicant has made-an application for a building permit. In which case they would be directed to the ZBA, I would expect. The issue could be cleared up. But, if you read the zoning code, the location of the building as it suggested here, is in violation of the code. The variance should be applied for an interpretation obtained before this permit is issued. If for no other reason to avoid confusion by a potential purchaser or occupants. Thank you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would any one like to speak against this application? No response. Mr. Tohill? ANTHONY TOHILL: In case the Board has not gone its own entrance, there is an unfriendly relationship between Mr. Ross's Board of Trustees 9 April 28, 1994 clients and mine. Not with standing the CAC's suggestions, we are landward of the 13~ contour. The septic system is more than 100' back. I am ...the unfriendly relationship may result in a long term diminution of property values in that area. Here is how, If the house is pushed back all that happens is the property owners widen the house. If he widens the house he now ~iminishes everyone landward from him. Perfectly permitted to do it. When he does that, those landward including inacent people w~o aren't even here are going to suffer as a result as this practice between adjacent property owners. It is not good planning. I know that the Board is mindful of good planning. I~side the particular concerns of the Board of Trustees allow %he envelope and leave it the Building Dept. to figure out what is allo~ed and for the Zoning Board to figure out. If the ~elanos wish to make that application. They are perfectly free to do that, but we are not doing that. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: He has a generous envelope here. You said when he moves it back that he would have to widen it. If he moved it back. ten feet why would he have to widen it? I am not talking it about 50', I am talking about moving it 10' ANTHONY TOHILL: That is a 40~ scal~ on that side. That envelope is plus or minus 50'. I scaled it with my own, I took that 50' between the tidal wetlands line back to the line with a piece of paper and matched them-up. I come up with about 50 more feet on the envelope. The envelope that is shown and the proposed house that is shown are both very large. The house wouldn't be built that size. If it gets pushed back 75' on a 40' scale. You will be back more than half of~t~atenvelope. So what would happen then they will widen. As they widen then the landward property owners other then the DeLanos are going to say what didthe Town of Southold Building Department do to me now. Then they are going to find out that that was actually authored by the DeLanos who themselves are not probably seeing the ~et down side. Of course there will be other generations after we are gone. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFE~: It puzzles me as to... I am just repeating Al's question again. ANTHONY TOHILL: ~o ahead, I am sorry. Maybe I didn't hear it. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The proposed house, the building, is inside the envelope. If that house was moved 15' away from the water, it is still well within the envelope. TRUSTEE KRUPSK~: It is more or less centered within the envelope then. ANTHONY TO. ILL: You are saying 15'. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was an arbitrary number. ANTHONY TOHILL: If you say 15, you will probably will reduce the punch of my argument substantially. If you say 25 on a 40' scale then I thiDkmy argument is starting to gain strength again. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It would appear from the scale that you could get i5 or 20' of that house moved still in the building envelope but yet almost out or our jurisdiction. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, they know that. Board of Trustees 10 April 28, 1994 ~STEE HOLZAPFEL: My question is why is the applicant fighting over 10 or 15' in that building envelope? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: They are nota They are fighting over 25' or more. ANTHONY TOHILL: Just note that if it is 40' scale, 25' is almOst2/3rds of the distance from the seaward edge of the building envelope to the outside landward edge of the building envelope. That building envelope is going to be down to not Vary m~ch.m~% The building envelope will be down to 15'. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Again, I am just trying to delineate. If that house was moved up 20'. There is approximately at the shortest end of the building, there is approximately 23 or 25' Where. it L~ saying preposed building. That lowest corner where septic system. ~LL: Yes. That distance to the building envelope is abo~t 24 or 25'. ANTHONYTOHILL: Right. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Wouldn't serve the Swicks to their advantage to have house centered within that building envelope? Move it to the south-east about. 10 or 15~. ANTHONY. TOHILL: The DeLano house a particular water view. a full water view. This house is located... That is the argument. You are building in ~omebo~y else'~ face. THONYTOHiLL. No actualtywhat we did was, we attempted to avoid that. TRUSTEE KI~HPSKI: Yes, I understand that. ANTHONY TOHILL: We did not see them coming' on January 27th, just so you know. That was a surprise. That is Why I wasn't here. That is why I am here tonight. We thought that it was being l~cated so as to preserve for them that water view that theYhave today. There angle is different. That is what this is all about. We are trying not to build a broad because it is not going to serve the long teim co~a~unitybene~it~ TRUSTEE GARRRr. L: Did the DeLanos and the Swicks ever sit down and taIk ANTHONY TOHILL: Yes, that was my first effort. Fir. Ross and I attempted. We have ~tatked many times. We have talked as recently as tonight. I said Dan where are we going. This could heart people. It is not going to work. It is apparently something that is obViously has nothing to do with anything that any of us is looking at tonight. TRUSTEE GARRELL: These are the kind of issues that we really don't like to get into as Trustees~ We don't like to sit Up as a judicial board or a board of arbitration between parties. We really rather work on marshes and wetlands.., so it puts us in an unusual position. ~IR. ROSS: The DeLanos oppose the applieation. The house is proposed 40' from the bank. They not only opposed it, the CAC opposed it. We came here and opposed it earlier. I understand before Mr. Tohill was retained and they are here again on the same grounds. They don't think a house should be there. ~oard of Trustees i1 April 28, 1994 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Actually the CAC rec~.ended approval with stipulations. MR. ROSS: 75' set back. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right. I woul,~ just have to say for the benef!it ofi the board. I have.b~en out on the site a number of times. The Swicks have been l~:onvenience by the fact that our last Chairman was taken ill. He had been communicating with them personally because just ge,)~raphically he lives in Orient. Much of that was lost when he t,)ok ill and he was no longer able to function as a board member. So this has dragged on longer than it should have. I met with Mr. Van Tuyl one day and I helped him define the wetlands Line. That is where the line was set. Now I understand why the house isn't in the middle fo the building envelope. Is there any other comment? Board members? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is your (Mr. Ross) contention is that the property is unbuildabte? MR. ROSS: The~e are a number of q~estions in terms of what the over all yield is on this. You have a tremendous amount of wetlands. You have a right-of-way here. You have a slope here that should be taken into consideration. It should be taken into consideration by the ZBA and by the Building Department rather than this Board issuing a permit that says you can build a house there where the zoning ~ode says otherwise. Yes, there are a! n~umber of questions. Tha~ is the main one. It is in black and white. It sa~s nothing within I08' of a bank when the lot is located on the Sound. This is a bank. It doesn't say a b~uff, it says a bank. That islwhat this is TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: I understand that interpretation. And we did lo0k into that recently because of our on~oin~ with the coastal erosion. I don't kn°w if the board would interPret bank as meaning bank on an intertidal tidal wetland. I think the board in this case would consider the bank being in relation to the bluff or beach or some sort of dune or other structure associated wit~ the Sound not with the Town owned intertidal marsh. Do the Board members agree with that? MR. ROSS: YOu are interpreting the zoning code. TRUSTRRKRUPSF~T: In relation to coastal erosion. I don't think the Building Department without a Trustee permit.. They won't review it withOUta Trustee permit. MR. ROSS: Traditionally the variance comes first at least with the Planning Board. Every time I have been before this Board, this Board requires a variance in the first instance. Because without the variance, the location is not appropriate. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: ~r. Tohii1 how much of this property abuts' on the Sound here? 50'? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 150'. TRUSTEE WENZEL: Oh 150'. So they own the beach out there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I guess they ow~.. the right-of-way too. I don't know. Do they own the right-of-way? MR. TOHILL: Yes they do. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: So it is 200'. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: 200'. That wasn't clear to me. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 50' of that is a right-of-way. ~oard of Trustees 12 April 28, 1994 MR. TOHILL: Yes, that is right. TRUSTEE F~R~PSKI: I think we should be looking at this from an environmental standpoint. We should be acting on it. I don~t thin~ we should hold it up for a review. TRUST~.R WENCZEL: I kind of think that we should hold the hearing open to allow them to address those codes because I don't~ know. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It is a question I have had on a half a dozen issues. Are we the one to give the permit first and then that in turn allows the applicant to go to the next board, Where this is a zoning. It is also a wetland application. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The way I see it is that zonin~ pertains to sounds. It doesn't pertain to Damp Pond. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I agree with that comment. The concept of being a certain distance from the bluff or bank was designed to deal With the sound and the cliff of the sound. Not the tidal wetlands that are on Dam Pond.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Chapter 97 is what was created to regular aetiv~ty within tidal wetland areas. Which this is and not on the sound. So it is two different, it is like apples and orang~s, regulatory areas. The sound, tidal wetlands. Chapter 100 ZOning, Chapter 97 Wetlands. MR. ROSS: Then the variance should come first. BRUCE You are a Board, you don't have to deal with anybody ~se. TRUSTEE : Absolutely. TRUSTEE I am afraid the buck is going to stop with us on the ruling. And that is wereit, should be~ TRUSTEE : That is right. I don't think~youshould have t~ let the'Zoning Board make our decision. TRUSTEE HO~ZAPFEL: It is a wetland application. TRUSTEE ~SKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing. TRUSTEE H0~ZAPFEL: My feeling and the thing I was hesitant about originati~Dn the CAC way back was the nebulas quality of propOsed house. You are saying there are no plans for this house. So ~hat this propOsed envelope, not the envelope the dotted line showing the house is not cut in stone. If we approve th~t~ we are really approving a blank check to build any house inside the the envelope. TRUSTEE KI{UPSKI: Inside the constraints of that dotted line. MR. TOHIDL: If it is Within 75' of the tidal wetland and you wish to modify. You have the authority to do that. The only concern that I have is that if you come back a full 25', y~u got me down to what I think is 15'. The house would'than have a front uo back of 15'. It is 50', its 40'. The house Should approximately, the style of house there will be normal. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I don't think there is anything that you can say is a normal house anymore when you are trying to basically shoehorn one inside an envelope where everybody, people are really touchy. You are looking at a 75' constraint. You are looking at septic system constraints. It would be nice to see the plans of that house. Somebody could design a triangle in there. I don't think they have that in mind. ANTHONY TOHILL: ~They live there~ Board of Trustees 13 April 28, 1994 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If you move that house 10'. If they wanted to build the replica of the lunar modular, what would be the problem environmentally. What the house looks like shouldn't be our concern. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Dan can I just ask a question? I am trying to get a sense, if a house was going to be pez~,~tted there is it more significant to your client that it be where it is on this chart or be moved further back? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Or closure to your clients house? DAN ROSS: I would need to confer with them on that. TRUSTEE GARRELL: If these people, for example where to put up a light house, you know its 10' across and goes way up and it gives them the building space they want, would they then live with it if it were if it would satisfy the environmental concerns or would they still come back and try to contest it? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But that is not in the code to specify what they can build. They can build a light house if they want. TRUSTEE GARRELL: They Can, sure. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: My feeling is that we have right o~er the first 75'. We can make decisions on that. T~chnically speaking we might be able to get of the 75' or be 70' away, that would satisfy the bQard in a much better way. But if that puts the house smack dab in position that is "detrimental" to your client then maybe we can move up 10' and that is what I am trying to find out. Do you understand? My feeling and I can't speak for the board, we see many applications that are like this, that are wanting to build within 75'. As long as we can control the environmental damage of that incursion into that,, area, we will deal with that. We would approve this kind of thing on many other occasions. As long as it is protected. My point is if we tell him move back, is that making your clients life more difficult or is where he is putting the housea better position. Do you know what I am asking? DAN ROSS: EXactly, I would have to walk the property with my clients. TRUSTEE KRUPSF~: We are not in the business we are not in the b~siness of~ keeping everyone happy, John, we just have to look at it and say O.K. do we think that the house should be moved back 10' or do we think it is fine as it stands or do you think it should be moved back 50' ~nd make a decision based on what is submitted. TRUSTEE GARRELL: We seem to get ourselves in the position of keeping everyone happy. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And it doesn't work. ANTHONY TOHILL: One last remark. Do you see the septic system and that little do~,ble line running from south-west corner of the house towards the septic system? I was using that same 20' marker on the side lines to figure out the distance there and I believe it is 10'. That is a Suffolk County Sanitary code requirement. That it be 10' from the edge of the building. You can reduce it to half by lifting the house. I am worried again thatsomebody...look where the it couldn't be any further from the water and still be on the lot. So know if make that stay there and you push the house back, they half the 10' under Board of Trustees 14 April 28, 1994 the sanitary code to 5~ by elevating the house and what have we ~ust done to the DeLanos view. That is why I am worried about this one. I think we may heart somebody. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Alright. Do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE GARRELL: So moved. TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion on this application? Keep in mind when we make a motion on this it is 50' from the tidal wetlands line is the building envelope. Yo~ need some reference point. You don't want to go on this building envelope here because it really doesn't have any geographical reference point. I think what you want to do is that you want to s~y...sa~ the house is now 55' from the wetlands line. I think if you want to make a motion, use that as a marker as a ~eference point. Instead of saying you would like to move the house back 5'. That is in relation to nothing really. I'll make the motion that we approve the application of the S~icks With a house no closer than 60~ from the tidal wetland line. Which would make the house building envelope moved back about 5', with the condition that there will be absolutely no disturbance to any vegetation on the bank or below the 12' contour to the north and northwest side of the property. All roof runoff be contained within dr!rwells. The future driveway will be a permeable substance such as crushed stone, no asphalt or concrete driveway witlbe allowed on the property to prevent runoff. A staked row of haybales during construction at the ~rassed area at the top of the bank. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE ~KRUPSKI: 8:31 P.M. - In the matter of the DANIEL MccONLoGuE request a wetland permit to construct a 2 bedroom, t bath extension to existing house and stairs, a 3' X 20' catwalk over existing walk, replace and repair a 6' X 8; dock as per revised plans dated March 29~ 1994. Located 900 Truman's Path, East Marion. ~31-12-4. The revised plans reflect a change in the change in the stairway going to down to minimize the amount of s~rface area coverage on the slope. Is there anyone here to speak against this application? Is there anyone here to speak in favor of this application? The Board has d~scussed this at length. I don't know if you want to add anything else to it? ~OARD: No. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Then I will entertain a motion to close the public'hearing. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I will make a motion to approve the application with conditions that there be staked haybales during construction at the top of the bluff, the roof runoff be contained on property in drywells. TRUSTEE GARRELL:. Second. ALL AYES. ~oard of Trustees 15 April 28, 1994 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 8:32 P.M. - In the matter of WILLIAM KELLY AND E~DRA SIKORSKI request a wetland permit to construct a single family dwelling with septic system, excavate and backfill disturbed areas, seed berm pond area. Located Brigantine Drive, Southold. $79-4-62. Do I have anyone here who wishes to speak against this application? Is there anyone here who like to speak in favor of this application? The CAC recol~ends that.the applicant provide the Trustees with a survey showing the extent of the building envelope plan and that the envelope not be lower than the 15' contour and that any clearing should be within the building envelope. Also all areas that are disturbed for more than one month should be planted with rye grass. On the survey they have a non-turf area below the 15' contour line which we would surely have recommended. Without further comment, do I have a motion to close the hearing? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I make motion to approve the application with the condition that at the eastern (end, Pond side) portion of the driveway that the 20' contour be pushed out to create swale at the end of the driveway. If necessary making the driveway large enough to encompass tP~t swale. You wouldn't limit them to doing it right in the driveway. To recharge the water that would possibly come off the road an come done the driveway so it doesn't run directly into the pond and to vegetate that as quickly as possible. A staked row of haybates at the 15' contour and that area below elevation of the 15' contour will be non-turfed between the maintained~property and the pond. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 8:37 P.M. - In the matter of PETER WERTZ to construct a one family dwelling with septic and leaching pool as per survey dated March 29, 1994. Located Private off Sunset Lane. $88-6-15. Is there anyone here who would like to comment on this application either in favor or against? CAC recommends approval. I need a motion to Close the hearing. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I will make a motion that we approve said application and there be a 20' non-turf next to the bulkhead. TRUSTEE WE~CZEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 8:39 P.M. - In the matter of ROBERT PATTEP~ON request to construct quest, rooms, terrace, walk, dsck platfoz~,s and to install additional drywells in existing sanitary system. All construction activity shall take place on what is now lawn area. All construction shall take place a minimum of 55' from freshwater wetlands. A continuous line of staked haybales shall be installed prior to and maintained during all phases' of construction activities and an area of "no dist-~rbance~' shall be maintained. All activity as per enclosed plans as prepared by ~handler, Palmer & King last dated February 16, 1994. Note: This project was approved in 1990, but has expired. Located Board of Trustees 16 April 28, 1994 Crescent Ave., Fishers Island. 96-1-10. In 1990 the Board granted approval for exactly what is proposed. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded by TRUSTE~ GARRELL to recess public hearing in order to inspect property. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The Board kept this hearing open from March 24 meeting, in the matter of VINCENT P. GERAG~TY to construct a two story building a minimum of 17' from the edge of the existing fill. Parking Will be located south of the building and will be bluestone. Sanitar~ system will be as close to the easterly property line as possible and. a minimum of 100' from wetlands. The existing upland to the west will be used only as a boat display area. Access between the two sections of upland will be via a 4' X 85' pedestrian bridge that will span the wetlands and otherwise developed. All in accordance with revised plan dated December 21, i993. Located Route 25, Southotd. 56-4-13.3,13.4 & ~4. Is there anyone here to speak in favor of this project? ROY HAJE: Roy Haje on behalf of the applicant. Mr. Geraghty is also present. This project has been around in one form or another for quite some time. In fact, A1 I think you will remember perhaps tWoyears ago when the Board met at the site to review the on-site conditions. At that time it was questioned what exactly where we going to do. I think there where comments made, of course non~inding, that the value of the wetlands where suspect in that they are heaviIy impacted by railroad on the one side, by Mai~ Road on the south side, by the existing beat usage storage area on the west and by the filled portion on this property and tke residence immediately toJ~the~east. Nevertheless we have voluntarily elected to leaveall of those wetlands alone and r~strict our usage of the property to those sections which have already been built. The property is separated from the bay by culverts which go underneath the road. There is some tidal flow~ but that is certainly restricted.. T~e tidal flow which does occur is byway of system of drainage ~itches which extends into the property for drainage. The project we propose, we feel is as benign as possible given the constraints of the property. We have to use as much as possiblethe area that is now silled because of the wetlands which we have agreed to leave. The boat sales and service building, we recognize is only 17' however in order to accommodate the parking which is also required associated with this is why it is the location shown. The sanitar~ system, which would be the source of effluent is in the conforming location and that has been placed as far as possible from those wetlands and is 100 + feet away. we have agreed sUbject to the approval of what ever agencies might be involved to use a pervious bluestone pavement in-lieu of asphalt submit ex.. We have also agreed to the installation of dry-wells for the building. We can pre-staked the area with ha~bales etc. to prevent any runoff from that bluff. We intend to keepas much of the indigenous vegetation as possible. You will note that in addition to the wetlands area there is a finger of woods which extend out there, that is also going to remain. We havedone as much as possible giving the odd configuration of the p~operty. Board of Trustees 17 April 28, 1994 Rather than contact it to by means of a land bridge, we will agree to the usage of an elevated wooden foot bridge. Which would allow the continued growth of the small portion of wetlands which lies belo~ it. Access will be directly from the road. I think the project has maximized the environmental attributes of the property and will preserve them. Any questions, I will be happy to answer them. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Would anyone else to speak in favor of this application? Would anyone like to speak against this application? Being no further comment from the audience, we have received a memo Mr. Geraghty, from the Planning Board requesting that they have lead agency. I spoke to Bob Kassner at length about this and I told him how you had cooperated with the board on the layout of this. Since you have taken such steps to minimize the environmental impacts of the property, the large issue with the Town seems to be the final layout and use a-s far as zoning goes and therefore I would recommend that this beard give lead agency to the Planning Board. Let them take the lead agency and we will be an interested party. When they are done with their process we will vote on the permit. If they request a change in anything you can come to use for an amendment to the application. That probably will not substantially alte~ our review of this. ROY HAJE: Can we get a sense of the Board now? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think you know my sense of it. We have worked with Mr. Geraghty quite a bit. I appreciate tt~t kind of cooperation. I know the past president has worked on it quite a bit and he helped to develope that plan. T~e ne~ board members can give a general comment or if they see a,nymajor problems on it. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Can you give us a history the past billings of that area, when it took place and what was the extent of it. (the filling). I am just looking at tP~s at face value. I don"t have any major questions here. I just don't know the past. ~R. ~ERAGHTY: I don~tknow the exact year but it was going on...(people talking at once) We did get approval of the amount of that was filled there and we maintain the lines that where set by DEC. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: And what year about was date? MR. ~ERAC~q~Y: It was 5 or 6 years ago. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: T~e question I think Martywas asking, are Irou talking ~hout the violation you got? MR. GERAGRT~: No. What I think you are referring to is at one point after it was filled a party came in and put fill on the property. I was notified of a violation on the property. ROY ~AJE: That was filled on top of the fill. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was exactly my question. I had thought that and I wanted .... that was dumped on the property not on the wetlands and then that was removed? MR. GERAGk~Y: And that was removed. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The original fill that when in to fill that was done with a DEC permit? MR. GERAGH%~: Yes. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Was there a Town permit for that? Board of Trustees 18 April 28, 1994 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't believe so. ~R. GERAGHTY: I believe it was all done through the DEC at the time. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Did it pre-date the wetlands ordinance? HOw long ago? TRUSTEE Ki{UPSKI: That was 20 years. TRUSTEE GARRELL: That's along time ago. ROY. HAJE:It has been filled for a long time. The current wetlands ordinance came in when? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 71. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was the concern that we had with the project, when was it filled and to what extent. There was nothing clear in the file that we have. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Things that where done 25 years ago by current standards, kind of painful. That always crop up in the review process. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If we are going to give this to the Planning Board, we can ask them to find out.. We will b~ an interested agency and we will aSk them to review that. You are not going to have both Boards... TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Understood. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I need a motion to recess this hearing. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I will make a resolution to grant the Planning Board Lead Agency on Vincent Geraghty. TRUSTEE HOAZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 8:55 P.M. In the matter of CUTCHOGUE HARBOR MARINA requests a Wetland Permit to remove existing fixed and floating piers, and i02 piles and replace with a 4' wide float constructed, along the entire perimeter of an existing bulkhead, 30 4' wide finger floats, a 5' wide "L" shaped float and a 5' wide 90' long main float. Also install 34 mooring piles, 4, 4' wide ramps and 4, 8' Wide landing floats. All finger floats will be secured to at least one pile. All work shall be accomplished in accordance with survey dated April 8, 1994. Located 3350 West Creek Ave., Cutchogue. Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of this application? LARRY WILLIAMS: I would just like to reserve to the right to speak. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: In case there is any opposition? LARRY WILLIAMS: Yes. TRUSTEE .KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak against this application? MARYAN%~E HUNTINGTON: I am Maryanne Huntington-and I am the President of the Fleets Neck Property Owner Association, I have prepared a statement on behalf of our organization. Over the past years and more recently the past several months, I have looked through all the applications, the folders, files and all the agencies that are relevant to this application. I find that there are a lot of words that are sprinkled throughout. They are things like compliance, permit, challenges, inspection and I ~m not quiet shore that it is another version of a divide and ~oard of Trustees 19 April 28, 1994 conquer. I just find that when I look at the Planning Board records, they reflect another angle. I look at the Building Department records as ~nother angle, i am really quite confused. Let me just Continue on with my statement. The current application is of great concern to our association and espeeially the residence in the proximity of the Marina. This apPlication is interpreted as an attempt tQ reconfigure slips utilizing 30~ floating docks to accommodate large boats. Currently about half of the marina is dedicated to motor yacht residences and transient boaters. FUrther development can severely and unalterably effect our echo system. Specifically our concerns are; (1) The impact of increase uses of potable water supply of Fleets Neck~ (2) The impact of increase uses on the water quality of Wicks Creek and the adjacent wetlands. Especially without a pumpout station or an enforcement of discharge and dumping infractions. Restroom and laundry discharge into the cesspool within thirty feet of bulkheads. (3) The impact on increase overnight and extended parking with the present usage, especially on weekends is not adequate. Although Town signs on West Road indicate no parking from 10 P.M. to 7 A.M. Cars are parked there on a regular bases. Some for ~several days. (4) The marina is lit excessively until at least i1 P.M. 365 days a year. This lighting offends the residence and the nocturnal wildlife while permitting marina patrons the use ~venings and day 'times, this type of lighting is contrary to rural character of our community. (5) The noise to restroom fans, marina patrons, parties and v~hicular and boat traffic, the outdoor public television set, etc~is, at inappropriate times of day and night is deemed a nuisance by residence. TheTown has been remiSed in the pas~. Permits have been issued without appropriate site plans and other documents in place. The enforcement of codes has been negligible. The zoning code forlMarine I Clearly states what is allowable that the permitted us~s under the code are subject to 'site plan approval by' the ]'lannin~ Board. Our association respects the r~ghts of the oWner t° improve their Property~ but n°tat the kept witch ~the character of co~.~unity and. environment. Increase usage o~ boats as residenceshave place~ a burden on all the residence Qf Fleets Neck. Should the currant infrastructure fail, our real property is at risk. In 1958 a similar situation arose when the expansion of the marine was challenged by our association and residence in court. Before a resolution the marina rescinded its application. We feel that thiS application ~s detrimental to the echo system, peace and tranquility of our co.,,~riity founded on respect of the environment. RespeCtfully submitted. I would like to speak just as a resident of Southold. A man owns an auto service station for 30 years~ He has served the community providing gas and. auto services and he hasa soda machine. The station is modest indesign and blends in with the community. He is well respected and has served the patrons well. Although only ~etween the hours of 7 A.M. and 7 P.M. He gets on well with his Board of Trustees 20 April 28, 1994 neighbors. Be retires and sells his station to an auto service conglomerate. Thenew owners renovate the station. New pumps, new siding, ~ew paint, new signage, new product displays, new landscaping and new lights. Replaces the soda machine with a coin !operated convenience food ~nd beverages, he adds a micro~ave oven~ a c~ffee maker an ice machine, a news paper machine, a deliver service drop off, a car wash and an electronic si indicating the time and weather report. They are now open hours a day. Cars stored everla4here on the property, radio blares. They are now advertising ...the i~ kation of the new ATM machine. The neighbors are complaining, is several years in the future, the station not only pumps 15 type of petroleum, but has ten electrical batte~ operated vehicles. The Windshield machine and now a coin garbage disposal. ~ still an auto service station, the services usa~ intensified. Where is the line drawn between er non-conforming use exception and recognizing that the zoning or building codes are o~sOI~te. A Use variance should be granted from the ZBA. The f0rme~ gas station is unrecogniz~ble and that is where our town has let us d~ne. I~ this as an analogy. You can draw your own conclusi, you. TRUSTEE you. Would anyone else like to speak against this .app~ LINDA FLET~C~: My i is Linda Fletcher and I live in New suffolk. I ~ould to say in respect to the lighting. The li¢ is visible from New Suff~ik~.R~ad 365 days a year creek,-across the Wickham orchard. The lighting is net ~ to live in New Suffolk for. you. Is there anyone who hasn't spoken? ? PHIL Cutchogue ~arbor. In response to a coUPle or issues that have been raisedl One of permit is for a pump o~t stations, so I think that is a Secondly there was some special considerations by the Board to fulfill which you well now that we ~ and they were in our favor. I believe the CAC inspected it and ~e have. their approval aswell as other Organizations. Weba~e obtained a DEC Permit and Corp of Engineersl I would object to the Board putting an~ other requirements on our permit except for what is already there and to look at it for whatit is~ The Trustees wetlands application. Andthat is it. Lets look at this fo~ what it is and not get of the track of anti science. Thank you. JOE LARUSO: It is important that you know that the proposed plan is not for expansion. What the intention is is to do away with unsafe existing conditions, poles that need to be changed, floating docks that would convenience our customers. As far as expansion, this is not an expansion project. We have in the past with regards to lighting, we have spent hours and days and evenings in full cooperation with the Town to try and alter the lighting and we are still open for some suggestion. Board of Trustees 2i April 28, 1994 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. If I could address the lighting isSue. Every Contentious public hearing we have has to deal with neighbors. It is a matter of getting people to understand that they have to live in the co~L~,unity with each other and to try and work out the problems. That is the lighting problem. If you could some how resolve that, we would appreciate it. PHIL WANAT: We will look into it Albert. MRS. ~ASSILDINE: I have a concern about the water usage of all these over night. Since when does marine I allow people to come and spend there vacation on there boats. Which is what happens with the larger docks. This is a boatel operation coming in here now. Which is what we voted down and and fought about in 1958. And we are doing it again. They don't have their own water. I m~self had to get a new well this Winter. I r~n out of water, salt i~trusion. Some people up the block...as a matter of fact at one time at the past Planning Board I was asked to go up and down the block and find concerned citizens and have them sign a paper. It think a got quite a few signatures. Where that paper is, I don~t know. It is in the record somewhere. I thinkthat thils file has to be looked over ve~-y, very thoroughly anything else beyond the means of our creek TRUSTEE F~U~S~I: Thank you. MS. R%~TINGTO~: I ~ like to say just one th~ng that in looking over see that...I know the marina has made some sort of the requirements ef B~ard of Trustees. really be any or permit we are absolutely their permits are That these cesspools % I have of evidence that gives for those cess shred~ It is these de~ails that make feelings. It makes it ~difficult for us to Our attempts to cempr~r~se was just totally j and when I look through ~e Planning Board the request for infO~ma~ion from the marina for a site plan~ Why was the site p~an just do tell What is and what was? Can you? TRUSTEE 1, to answer that, Cutchoque ~rbor Marina applied for this application in April of 1993 and for various reason we did no% begin to review this until recently. One of the problems was that we did not have an accurate~ survey and that was one o~ the conditions that they had to, as all applicants are required' to submit. One of our concerns of course was water usage on the site and that if in fact the sanitary system was capable of handling their water usage. The Marina submitted not only to a dye test recently, which past and Suffolk County Health Department preformed, also they agreed to a dye test later on in the S~,~,er by the Health Dept. We had the~Bay Constable there, no Trustees were involved. MS. HUNTINGTON: Where are the permits for those cesspools? Where is the permit for the water supply? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The Health Department regulates the sanitary system. Board of Trustees 22 April 28, 1994 MRS. HASSELDINE: Where are the permits for the Laundromat? It is Marine I. MS. HUNTINGTON: I was reco~u,ended that it was removed. Was it removed? No. Where is compliance? ~RS. HASSELDINE: What about that it was recommended that they do not have a sprinkler system to water their flowers and plants, but it is there and they use it. Sometimes it is on while it is raining. MS. RT~NTINGTON: Iunderstand that you asked them or they said that they would water. I don't understand how they would meter their water. The individual user or from the well, from the pump? How are they metering it? TRUSTEE~RUPSKI: I am not sure yet. Probably from the entire source of the water. LINDA FLETCFIER: Are you supposed to ask the applicant if they have Suffolk County Health Department permits for what they have done? Do they have it? Yes or no? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I will let the marina answer that. LARRY WILLIAMS: This plan has been in the works for two years. I did a lot of work with John (Trustee BredemeYer) and I would like to answer specifically the sanitary repairs. When that happened we addressed this with Suffolk County Board of Health automatically. They declared that this was maintenance and it would not require a pe~,it. However, ~e failed to ask the Town. We were made aware that we needed a permit for the Town, we did so and fi~ed the application. In regards to the pump, the well is ...inaudible, under a house with a variance. It is a thirty gallon a minute wSlt. It serves that residence~.~andthe marina. A normal house has a 10 to 15 gallon a minute well, Anybody who has well water .can attest to that. Ail you have to to is go in the basement. Water usage as far as the sprinklers go, one zone at a at night. MS. E~se me, excuse me. Would you like the photos. Let him finish first so we keep this orderly. LARRY WILSIAMS: I would like you look at it for what it is. These are none issues. TRUSTEEKRUPSKI: They are and they aren't. Beck, se when we review, a~d as a matter of explanation, the application, we do the application mainly as a marina coniigurati~n. N°w we are not going to come into a marina and tell them tha~ you have to put your docks this way, no you have. to put them this because that is a matter of economics. They have to run their business and that they have to do it that way. As far as the larger boats go, are Trustee Policy is not allow any boats larger then 35' to more in To~rn Creeks° The reason is that we would like to encourage larger boats to be in a marinawhere they oanbe regulated, by things such as pump out stations, signs to encourage use, log books, which will be submitted to the Trustees: to show the amount of pump out and the dates. As far as any application goes, when the Board looks at any application, we look at the entire project. We don't just look at that one. If someone comes in for a tennis court, we look at the entire project. We don't just look at that one. If someone comes in for a tennis court, we will look at the entire project to see Board of Trustees 23 April 28, 1994 we can't make some sort of other improvement. So when we look at water use, we are treating you no differently than we are treating any other applicant. Because we try to improve the entire property while we are working with that. JOE LARUSO: A1 it is important from my point of view t~at the Board understand that we do not have a blatant disregard for marine echo system~ its quite ~the contrary. We are all boatingi people. We have very stringent requirements on our marina witk regards to boats discharging overboard. Wa have a no discharge policy. Anybody that discharges in the lagoon is discharged from the marina. We have very strong feelings about that. ~orget the fact that we are businessmen and we have a right to have a return on our investJ~ent. We also have a regard for the marine environment. I live in Strongs Neck in setauket, a very' sensitive area. Right next door to Plocks Pond. I have been there for 30 years~ I understand all ~hese things~ Sometimes I feel like we are being painted as people who just have a disregard for this condition. I am have been on the water for all m~ life. I lived on Eastchester Bay in the city. I am a licensed capt. I was in a submarine, I was a navigator in the navy. My whole life is marine. I just wanted to make that point. Thank you. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Yes. ~LICHAEL BENDER: I would only like to make a comment, I am Michael Bender, one of the owners, about the water usage. This is not any kind of an accurate precision survey, but we use water on the docks only approx, four months of the year. The other eight months +/ it may be turned on. It~isn~ even turned on for more th~n six months of the year at the docks. For at least two of the six months it probably gets an extraordinary small amount of use° The four months that it is uses, and of course we all know that there are only two months, July and ~ugust, that there is any significant use, the majority of the use is on the weekends. On Saturdays and Sundays. There is very, very little use out side of that. I won't say there is no use, there are occasionally people that use the marina du~ing the week in the two months. On that basis, b~ the way very few people sleep ~aboard their boats, there are very few beats, I don't think there are more than 15 o~ 20 boats that could accommodate people sleeping on Board. How many do you thiD~ there are? You are shaking your head. MS. HUNTINGTON: Well, from my living room window, I can see at least 20 boats in that basin that are in excess of thirty feet. I know for a ~act that there are people that live on those boats all season long. MICFLAEL B~ER: You had your boat at the marina, did you live on your boat. MS. R~JNTINGTQN: Absolutely not. MIC~IAEL BENDER: Were there any people in the north basin living onboard? MS. HUNTINGTON: Yes there was. MICHAEL BENDER: were there any large boats in the north basin. MS. RI~NTINGT~: Well there was Bettaboo and there was at least five boats that I know of where people wcckended on that... Board of Trustees 24 April 28, 1994 MICHAEL BENDER: There were not any large boats in the north basin. MS. HUNTINGTON: Not large, but people... TRUSTEE KRLrPSKt: Alright, I think we are... MICHAEL BENDER: My point is that I think the marina when looked at for the time period that it operates and for the amount of water that it uses during that time period, it is probably less then some of the residence, some of the ve~f large residences that operate full time all year round. Thank you. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I guess I have just a few questions and permit me to expand beyond the simple pe~,it here or what seems to be an attempt to reconfigure. The marina issue, the question is to what extent are the cesspools tested regularly for dye testing and communication with the bay? Are they tested by the Board of Health. on a regular basis? Have you ever thought about doing plantings instead of putting in sprinkler systems? Have you ever considered monitoring your water use carefully. It is obvious from the scuttlebutt from Fleets Neck that there is a water us problem. A ground water problem, a saltwater intrusion problem. It sounds like down the line there has got to be sume SoTution that demands water conservation and reduce water use. The indications seem to be there. Have you ever given thought to thqse kinds .of remedial measures to satisfy the people? ~Y WILLIAMS: We have our water tested annually. I would also like to address salt water intrusion. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What is it tested for. LARRY WILLIAMS: Salt and PH. It is a standard water test done by Mo. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Dye testing of the septic systems? LARRY WILLIAMS: I Would like to explain dye testing. I was born and raised on the water on the western end. Dye testing is use primarily to see if somebody pipes from an overflow pool through your bulkhead. Years ago in Western Nassau and am sure out here, it did exist. Little by little as government got involved they stopped it. Dye testing is to prove that you are not piping overb6ard. It is not to see if it leaks through the ground. Although .it can be used. TRUSTEE GARRELL: It can be. LARRY WILLIAMS: In this case it was used and negative results. We did and we agreed to dc it again when we are in full use. MICHAEL BENDER: The water testing that was done showed this year there was less salt in the well water than in the previous year. LARRY WILLIAMS: I was inquisitive as to how we get salt water intrusion, so I called up NYS Public Service. The head. of water quality. He told me that most of our salt water intrusion are the results of storms'. December 1t, I think last year the August storm when we had tide rising. Leaching from the top. I saw in Suffolk County Board of Health my second inquiry on salt water intrusion and I was shown a graft of where the bed rock is. Salt water intrusion most when drawn down from wells is brought this way, not this way and that is a fact. TRUSTEE GARRELL: It depends on pressure gradients and its complicated because of the soils and the rock structure. The only way to determine what is going on in Fleets Neck all over Board of Trustees 25 April 28, 1994 is to take the area and really give it a good look. The only stuff we have now is anecdoteic, but it sounds like there could be a problem with wells that are effected by salt water intrusian with ground water that is being depleted and obviously that anecdotes are not enough. You have to go to a survey. What I am thinking is, if water is a touchy commodity in the area then perhaps efforts could be made, at least until a study is complete to do a little bit more with water conservation. With monitoring water use. The same way people do things in touch areas upstate. Because you are all neighbors and sooner or later what is going to effect one persons well is going to effect every bodies well. Those are the lines that I am thinking on. It is tough to see people who are at different logger heads and nobody is talking in terms of neither compromise or getting together on some co~m~on solution. Down the line in Fleets Neck everybody has~ to life together. Again I am new to this Board. This is the f~rst I have seen this issue come up and there are some hot feelings that go back a long way. I wish for the sake of everybody living out on the North Fork that we can turn the clocks back to 1958 or even if we can turn it back to 1975 the way it was when I first came out here. The expanding marinas or expanding wa~er uses and more people out here, they are part of the picture and somehow we have to learn to live with it. LARRY WILLIAMS: One other thing that was discussed while I was at the Board of' Health, I spent a good 2 1/2~3 hours there. It was very infDrmative. I brought documentation, DEC permit for the installation of well way back when. Gallons per minute that the pump draws, max. and he said the depth of.the well, which is 55' when the pump rest, he said that there is no doubt in my mind that that pump cannot draw down the water level in that area. As a matter of fact once a year we go around and test the w~ilsl We get a lot of complaints. Matter of fact last weekend they were right down on Fleets Neck, on West Road. I don't see our well as being a problem to anybody in the neighborhood. I think the numbers prove it. We also have a program in effect that would have been implemented already this year except the teamster strike, that we are going to aerate the property and put ceramic Plugs.. Which will cut our water usage in half as far as the grass area. TR~STEEKRUPSKI: Ceramic plugs? PHIL WANAT: Moisture in the ground. LARRY WILLIAMS: It retains the natural rain water and lets it come out... TRUSTEE GARRELL: So you will sprinkle less. LARRY WILLIAMS: ...what it looks likes we doing is a problem and these are the efforts We have put forth to alleviate them. Even though we don't feel we are a problem to the area, we are making steps to improve our water use, to cut down on it. MRS. HASSILDINES: I don~t know what wells where tested but I live right next door to the house in which the well is the one that supplies the harbor. The other question that I have...I understand there is no test well in Fleets Neckusually there are in other areas, when they attempted to get a test well or get a general idea of the water that they found out that there Board of Trustees 26 April 28, 1994 is none on Fleets Neck. I don't know of any other residence that have had there well tested. I do know four homes that have new wells put in because of salt water intrusion. The other thing I wanted to ask was in the Marine I, in the code I believe it specifies that only certain things that relate to a marina can be sold. In this enlargement they also sell newspapers and a few other little items that have nothing to do with marine activity. It is just getting bigger. In the code, does it specify in Marine I that there cannot be any living on the boats. I think it was something for like an overnighter, a 24 hour period. The other think is there in the code for Marine I facility, is there a laundry facility. I know that the people who had the mar~ina tha~ had the marina before asked to have a laundry facility put in and where denied. I don't know how they happen to have a laundry facility. I don't no where the permit ~s. What happened? It just seems to be getting bigger ~RUSTEE KRUPSKI: I understand. I know what you are saying. MRS. ~IASSELDINE: We are really worried about the expansion. We also are boat people. We also love the marina as far as being ~here. BUt not at our expense. Things are being done that are not right. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: As far as a lot of your concerns, I hate to pass the buck, but a lot of them are not our concerns of this ~°ard. With government~as big as it is you have ~o go to the Proper agenCies to mak~ those complaints and to get cOmpliance o~ the marina on thOsei, if there are inappropriate acti~ns down there. As far as the water uses, what Marty Garrell was highly developed, likel Fleets Neck. MS. HUNTINGTON: I a democrafic study of the residence that belong to the 70% of the residence belong to the association. About 62% are year round residence. I think 18% are part-time residence. Traditionally~ we experienced with hurricanes and floods almost every year. Some worse then others. We have never experienced the loss of that many wells in that short of period of tim~. I purify, my own water using manual needs. I don'~ use the Culligan system, nothing. I can tell from my yield what the problems are. I can't tell whether it is salt or Iron. I just k~ow they are contaminants, i alse know that during the period of .say February to June, ~hat is the best time ~or water. By the time September, October, November comes around,'I am getting a much smaller yield. It seems to me that it doesn't just by turning a facet on i~ the one household is not going to deplete the water supply. Regular usage. The marina is a wet business. I see people washing their boats all the time. They go out on the bay and they come back and the next thing they conduct is that they hose their boat down. The hose is left lying. I see people bringing their boats on a trailer, parking it on the street and hosing it down. If there is a family of four living on a boat, that is going to be four showers on that day, plus whatever cloths. I don't know, I never really lived aboard my boat very long, but I know if I Board of Trustees 27 April 28, 1994 washed my lunch dishes, more than likely than not I would probably toss the water over the side rather than fill up my holding tarzk. I know in the other marina, Brick Cove, there is sealed heads, there is this and there are a lot of stipulations. Here is a situation where the marina people came in, they bought th~ marina. I can't imagine. I would never buy a house that didn't have a well. They are proposing a large business and they invested probably a lot money, more than all of us has together. I see that, but the overall ~upact t~ our environment from their continued expansion and alteration of the use. That is probably isn't a Board of Trustee issue, it is a Planning Board. It says in the code that you need site plan approval. They have not complied with the Planning Board's request. To me it just looks like another way to divide and con~quer. S~lit everyone apart, split us apart, split our neighbors apart and to what end. So they can have a bright new marina w~th very large boats to their enjoyment and the rest of us would .jUst have to go a long with it and suffer. LINDA FL~CHER: A1 is there some way that their can be a coordinated review of this project. TRUSTEE E~UPSKI: With Who else the DEC has already done SEQRA and issued permits. That is who we normally coordinate with, of Engineer and DEC. about the Planning Board? are totally separate. Our concerns are really tke You are really talking apples and oranges as far as Whether they are allowed to sell newspapers, its nothing to do.._ our concern is water quaI~ty.~.I don't thinkth~t we can eenV legally challenge water usage. That should be a community affair where everyone is involved in conservation and'in water use. You say your water quality goes down in the summer, it is understandable. The whole area is being maximized for water use. TRUSTEE GAR~ELL.: Same aquifer. TRU~EE K~U~SKI: Same aquifer. It is not just the marina that is busy. Everybody is busy. MS. HU~TIN~:~ What I am trying to say is that we are a fairly stable population, we are not going up in the S~.~er and making incredible d~ands on the water-. If you ride around Fleets Neck you wilt see that there are not many green lawns durin~ the Summer months. You Will find that people don't have sprinkler systems and that they don't water their lawns. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yeah, but there is a long term thing too that you have had people out on the neck a long time. There are many family's have been there. Population has increased somewhat. Over a period of 30, 48 years you will start, to see some of those shallower aquifer impacted by strictly long term use. I see three issues which are at stake here. The one that is perhaps the most serious over the long hall is water problems on Fleets Neck. That is something that we are not going to solve in one evening. It is going to take a community approach. It is probably going to take a study and it is going to take some serious work. Secondly, the questions as to whether the marina is following current regulations and restrictions and has all Board of Trustees 28 April 28, 1994 its prior permits in place. That is something to be taken up with individual agencies and if there is non-compliance to be addressed through legal means if you have to. The third thing and unfortunately the thing that we are supposed, to address here is just one application for recon~igurationo We are constrained as Trustees to look at that application on its merits. We have asked our Town lawyer to what extent do other issues, passed issues of compliance and permitting can hold back a new application. Her original feeling I think was that it is illegal tO hold somebody up on a current application because there are problems or questions about past procedure~. This was her interpretation. So to me those are the three things we are looking at. Just as a matter of conscience I don't t~ink we should give short trip of past permits regulations and restrictions. We do have to go on sometilae tonight, we do hame to go on to the application for reconflguration. Just addressing that Permit, we have been told by the current marina owner that this is really only a reconfiguration~, that there will be no increase in the number of boats and that ~his does not represent, an expansion of the marina in terms of usage, tL would like to know your specific objections to that. MS. HUNTINGTON: I have here the Army Corp. of ~gine~r.s public notice and it says here that the activity is to renovate, expand existing marina. If you go out one extra foot into the creek. that is an expansion it may not be a big one and I am not going to argue the Point ... TRUSTEE~ ~: Yo~ see what I am driving at though? MS.. HU~INGTON: I do, but what I am saying· am looking at the Army COrp. of Engineers public notice it calls it an co~r~iai marina we placed C & R's on that there...it is a smallboat and it is on our best shellfish resou~c~ and we have a no head restri2tion in that marina. We take marina by marina. The~'e is another marina in Greenport that we imposed q~it~a few Other environmental cOnstraints. As we take marina by malina we are prepared to impose environmental constraints based on our concern for water quality. That is our big concern is the discharge of boats. ~S. HqlNTI~TON: Are you prepared to that in tkis marina? TRUSTEE. KRUPSKI: We are prepared to do itwith every marina. MS. ~UNTIN~TON: The heads will be sealed? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We are not prepared to seal the heads on this one because we don't have any... ~S. HUNTINGTON: Evidence of contamination TRUSTEE Kt~UPSKi: Discharge. That is right. ~We are prepared to also hame the septic system tested later on in the season to make sure that is not contaminating the waterway. As far as their configuration, we don't want to get into that business of saying how you have to lay the docks out. If they want larger boats...the economy drives the size of the beats, we can't dictate that. Board of Trustees 29 April 28, 1994 MS. ~I~NTINGTON: BUt you oan dictate ot~er areas of that. For instance the laundry facility or the ... TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I don't see how we can regulate a laundry facility. MS. H~TINS~N: Well it is in the code. T~UsT$.~ F~u~KI: Chapter 97? MSi. H~TIN~T~N: NO. In the Zoning Code. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We are operating under Chapter 97. CHANGED TAPE: MS. RTINTINGT~N: O~er the years I have gone to everyone. The Association'has gDne to everyone. We have gone to every agency including the CAC ~ust trying to find out what is right and what is wrong. NOt really pointing fingers or not really saying you did this~oryou did ~at. Wanting to define the code or i~terpret s~me of these rulings that are so allian-to us. One gas station puts up lights and the Planning Board makes them ~ake it d°whl The marina, puts lights and all they do is make them They are still ugly, they are still we are trying to find, We all agree that essential. We need some lighting for our security or ~ of our boats, but it doesn't have to be lit like TRUSTEE go back to. the water issue for a minute. If some of here say two years ago, three years ago and we were the s~ories now that we here about water use and on Flee~ Neck and a marina Came in and facilities and put in sprinkler system~ that marina, Ithink~ewould vote to deny.' At ~ a very serious water study of the acquif~er. The problem is now that those things are in place. The only legal recourse you might have out somehow if they were legally sited and if those things ' violation of permit. If they are not then to me your can only become working with the o~perator and seeing if you can work out an arrangement of water .on. It is a very touchy thing, but I don't think we are previous application or permits on such things as ~'s or... MS. HUNTINGTON: There were no permits. MRS. HAsSILDINE: They never had permits, they just did it. TRUSTEE 8ARRELL: That is a different issue. MS. HUNTINGTON: That is in question. They maintain that is replacement to existing. We haVe over the years provide affidavits, provided information from the onset that there where no cesspool rings where the~ placed it. The previous owner attested to. it. The previous tenants, mechanic service attested to it. They where issued a citation. They addressed it this very room. They first maintained that they weren't there. Then they maintained that it was a repair. Then they admitted that they didn't have permits for any of that information. The tape failed. We don't have...we are just taking about something...it is. all water under the damn. Two years ago we stood in the same room, with the same body of people and made the same Board of Trustees 30 April 28, 1994 complaints~ And then they get the assessed value of their property reduced by 1/3. I don~t get it. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI & GARRELL: we are getting to ... MS. HUNTING~ON: I am going out in the hall. I am not saying anymore. I have said my piece. You know my sentiments. You know the sentiments of o%ur organization and our co~,L~unity. I understand the constraints placed on you with the application. I think we have to make our sentiments known to you and the depth of out feeling and for the risk the we feel that we share and our property value. MS. HASSILDINE: we look to our town for help. TRUSTEE KRUPSF~: You had some questions John? TRUSTEE HOLEAPFEL: I have a couple of questions. One is the ratio of transient slips that you? In other words, how many open slips do you have? MiCHAEL BENDER: we probably have 60 to 65% occupancy. Maybe a little less:. Maybe 5~% seasonal occupancy and maybe an~here from 5 to 10% in the very busiest time of the season we have transientS. It has not been a particularly good business in the past. There was several things I wanted to say. t am just qoing to say two of them. One is that I feel that it is ~reasonabl~ to have Unsubstantiated allocations of illegal b~hav!or spewed ~ut by Ms. Huntington that are ~Ssolutely untrue and that ha~e ~n proven. The second thing is t don't know how can d~sputea regional problem of water and how I can deal with the blame somehow bein~ locked onto the marina. I would say the marina today, because of economic conditions, the marina has p~ob~bly used 1/2 to 5/Sths approx, of the wa%e~ that it ~outd have ~sed in previous years when it was f±lled with Filled and Overflowing with people and no .available · As Mr. Laruso points out, when we bought the marina the ~terI leaked eVez~where there wasn't a pipe around the docks at didn't leak. We replaced all the piping with brand new piping there isn't a leak in the marina piping. TRUSTEE GARRELL: It sounds like you...you act like you are aware of the problem and the one thing I wonder about is how much you can do with your water users or the marina users to get them tobe very aware and to have them institute personally water conservation measures. With people who are boaters tend to be environmentally minded, water conservation minded. MICHAEL BENDER: We can certainly attempt to have an educational process. ~ut signs around the marina on the docks asking our patrons to conserve water. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Then if you could monitor your water use you could actually see it decrease seasonally or yearly'. I think the long term problem of water on Fleets Neck may not go away, but at least you will buy your self some time. MICHAEL BENDER: We could meter our water as well. There is a house that also draws water from the well and that would he something that would be independsnt~. But we could meter the supply of water to the marina. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One more coa,~ent because we... TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I started my question, the first one was about transient and you said that it is a very small business. Board of Trustees 31 April 28, 1994 The second question I had was just about the opposite, ts there any mechanism in the marina to prevent people living there for tw0months. MI~CHAEL BENDER: It is not permitted. It is not in accordance with our contract. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: What is in accordance with your contract? MICHAEL EEN~ER: We don't permit live-a-boards. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Saturday night? MICHAEL BENDER: People are allowed to stay on ~here boats and it is not uncommon for approximately 20 boats (20-30 boats to be fair) could stay on board and typically the only times people stay on board are Friday and Saturday nights. JOE LARUSO: There has been in the five years that we own the marina there has been only three family's that consistently have sta~ed on their boats for any length of time. They stay at the marina on their boats once the kids are out of school and they are there for the month of July and part of August. It three familY's. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I see a slight contradiction and I am just again trying to find out...you where saying that you have a regulation against staying on the boat for any extended period and yet now I hear two or three people do that. Everyone talking at once. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Do you understand the concern though, if thirty people are li~ing in their boats than you have cesspools and p~Umpouts. That is a critical issue and that is why I am trying to get to, if you had something on your regulations that said you know you are not allowed to stay ton~e.r than a week. ~at is a different story. That is what I got from the first comment but than it doesn't seem like that is the case. LARRY'WILLIAMS: t previde some information from the Suffolk County Water Department on how to calculate water usage at a marina. We do have two homes, on the premises and a shower bathroom facility, men and women and we do have one washer machine. Two houses, one washer machine. That happens to be in a room locked and for use for myself and the marina people. I can attest to the fact that we are 57% rented last year. If we just Used what Suffolk .County calculates to estimate for construction purposes and didn't have a problem with pools being pumpedor overfl~wnl. I am less usage then a normal household, ifyou follow their trend. TRUSTF~EHOLZAPFEL:tI understand your trend. The document you gave us, I believer was for a single family occupant. LARRY WILLIAMS: There is...for marinas too. With and without a ... we don't have a ... TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I looked at some of those numbers-and I thought they where much larger. Especially With the Iaundry'mat that is figured in. LARRY WILLIAMS: It is a household washer machine. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I understand. But in this book, it says they treat it as a machine and they give a certain volume for that water as a laundry~matt. I am not arguing about it. I am just trying to tell you that that is a number that is much larger than a single family house. My last questions that I had was in Board of Trustees 32 April 28, 1994 terms of the water. It has been an issue that I have been involved with. In many of our applications we constantly tell people to use a non-turf vegetative buffer next to the water. Do you have a problem with that. It means you don't have sod a~d you don't haV~ sprinklers. ~ARRY WILLIAMS: That is not part of this plan. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes it is. Let me explain. We have done this ~ hundred times. It is not your application. When somebody comes in to do an application, we look at the entire application. They sodded right up to the bulkhead. I am trying to explain. you might haveheard it tonight, we have asked for a twenty foot ~getative buffer. We asked for a thirty foot. It depends upon ~e property. It is a very, very regular process for this board not to put a heavy watered and fertilized plants near the edge df the water. It is a common practice. My point is, is that a problem? Do you see that as a hardship? ~Y WILLIAMS: We are not doing any landscaping. ~EIL WANAT: We are not changing anything. T~USTEE HOLZAPFEL: I ~n not saying you are changing it. I am saying we have the right in the permit process to say that you are not allowed to have heavy vegetative, fertilized plantings. MICHAEL BENDER: We have a five foot walkway and then the sod ~tarts. If you had a house on the water and somebody said to you I want to 'hake your back yard lawn out and put in saw grass, how would you feel? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I am telling you that I have told people to do that. I have sat in front of this board in the last three months and told f~ve people to do that. That. is~what I am telling you. I have sat on the CAC for the last eight years and every application, Bruce Loucka who is Chairman now will t~ll you that I personally put that on every application. That When ever the CAC sent something to the T~stees, it was ~lways put a vegetative buffer, non-turf so that all the nutrients, all that material does not go into the water'. By the Zoning Board... ~Y WILLIAMS: Point of information, we do not fertilize, we mulch. JOE LARUSO: The Board made a request of us last year, you may remember Al, John Bredemeyer himself asked us not to use fertilizer and when we understood the impact of using it and now we understand leaching of the fertilizer into the ground water and we complied 100%. We do not use ~ertilizer. TRUSTEE HoLZAPFEL: I am just asking if you didn't have any grass there at all, is'that a problem? Then 'you wouldn't have to water it. LARRY WILLIAMS: It would destroy the beauty of the marina. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That is all. That was my question. LINDA FLETCHER: I just wanted to co~m,ent on what John said. You where asking them about their agreement with the people who rent their slips. Why haven't they produced one of them. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I don't think it existed. MS. HUNTINGTON': There was no overnight restraints. I have an agreement. Board of Trustees 33 April 28, 1994 JOE LARUSO: Al, we think we have produced one, but if you would like one that is certainly not a problem. ~$. HUNTINGTON: I would like to thank the Board for theil time amd patients. Good night. T~STEE KRUPSKI: Good night. Do any of the Board members have a~y other ~destions. I think we should wrap this up. TRUSTEE; GARRELL: Do you want a motion to close this hearing. T~USTEE KRUPSKI: Are there any relevant comments to this application. S~eaker: I would just like to make one point. There is some C0~fuslon on the grass. You are proposing is the north end which hasn t been renovated to be renovated at this point. Board and CH~ owners: No. JOE LARUSO: The south side of the south basin. We want to comtinue with what is on north side of the south basin. $~pgaker: O.K. The grass and siding look beautiful, you did a g6~d job. You are not going to but grass on the other side? JOE LARUSO: No. SPeaker: I think there was some confusion here about that. MICHAEL BENDER: The north side of the remaining. The natural Si~e is staying, there is no grass there. DAVID W~LSH: Where the driveway is, where you pull in and park yomr cars, what is going to be there gravel? JOE LARUSO: Gravel. DAVID WALSH: Is there a reason why the lights have to stay on ail night? Is it the insurance. LARRY WILLIAMS: It is the insurance company. If I maintain those hours, it keeps the insurance cost down..~The electric rates go up. There is not intension o~ doing anlrthing on the north side. Speaker: You fixed up the other part of the marina very nice. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I am going to ask for motion to close the pUblic hearing. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: So made. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I am going to make a motion of these based on ~ur review of the file. This is a sample resolution that is drawn up and we will add to it as we go a long. The CAC recommends approval oE the project provided the total number of slips does not exceed the number of any previously approved slips. WHEREAS, NYS~EC previously assumed Lead Agency in this matter and WHEREAS, all other required permits have been obtained; and WHEREAS, the Trustees have viewed and are familiar with the premises in question and theapplication; and WHEREAS, a public hearing on the proposed project was held on April 28, i994 and the Trustees have considered all comments raised at the public hearing and in connection with application; and WHEREAS, the proposed project complies with the standards set ~orth in 97-28 of the Town Code; NO~ BE IT RESOLVED, that the action is hereby approved sUbject to the following conditions: Board of Trustees 24 April 28, 1994 1. Installation of a pump-out facility to collect and properly dispose of vessel sewage; 2. Erection of a 2' X 3' sign prominently displayed at the fuel dock which reads, F~EEP OUR WATERS CLEAN, PLEASE MAKE USE OF THE PUMP-OUT FACILITY PROVIDED FORT HE COLLECTION OF VESSEL SEWAGE. THE MANAGEMENT. 3. The applicant shall maintain a monthly log of pump-outs specifying the following: Name of vessel, vessel ~egistration, date, gallons collected and means of disposal. The applicant shall submit a cop~ of the log to the Trustees annually after the boating season by December 31. 4. The applicant shall notify the Trustees upon completion of said project. 5. The applicant shall remit to the Trustees a fee of $427.50 covering-the processing costs and two future field inspections for permit compliance. 6. The applicant shall submit to a dye test at the Trustees discretion and the Suffolk County Health Departments convenience this summer and annually. 7. There shall be no expansion of turf areas or water usage. 8. "Y" valves be sealed for overnight subject to Bay Constables inspection. Signage for users to use water sparingly shall be posted around the yard. 10. A copy of the bill of sale for the clay pellets and proof of installation of same. TRUSTEES talked about gray water discharge. It was decided that it cannot be controlled because there is no regulation~ TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES. V. ASSESSMENTS/ENVIRONMENTALDECIiARATIONS: 4. DENNIS KEDJIERSKI request a permit to reconstruct an existingsingls family dwelling adding a second floor and a 7' front porch~gravet driveway. Construct a 27' X 20' two-car t.parklng area and in addition, garage on the existing concrete ~ remove approximately 21,000 sq.f of concrete Parking area from in front of the house. Also remove a small, concrete block smoke house and shed. Remove approx. 1,500 sq. ft. of concrete patio and two concrete ramps from the ream and sides of the house as per the drawing, and replace it With a 12' X 20' timber deck and stairs attached to the rear of the house. Replace the solid filled timber pier with an open piling Pier. Construct a 6' X 40' floating dock (with a 5~ X 10' extension for a gangway) on four pilings att he end of the existing pier. Install water and electric service to the dock. Located Sage Blvd., Arshamomaque, Southold. $53-5-12.2. A motionwas made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRELL to grant a negative declaration. ALL AYES. ~oard of Trustees 35 April 28, 1994 1. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of ROBERT CALHOUN to construct a swimming pool, terrace, stairs, decking ~nd pool backwash from existing tidal wetlands line. To install a sanitar~ system as per $.C.D.H.S. standards at a point greater than 125' from existing tidal wetlands line. To truck in approx. 200 c.y. of clean fill for regrading and the installation of stone parking areas on what is now a dirt parking area approx. 40' from existing tidal wetlands line. Proposed parking area shall be in the same foot print as existing parking area. Existing catch basin shall be utilized or reconstructed. Entire limits of construction wall be enveloped by a continuous line of staked hay bales which shall be installed prior to and maintained during all periods of construction activity. All work in accordance with plans prepared by Chandler Palmer and King dated 12/14/93. Located East End Road, Fishers Island. ~3-2-2. The Board request a new (general) description, as per plans submitted. No action will be taken until a full coordination is done. 2. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of THOMAS W. RUSSELL,JR. to reconstruct/upgrade an existing rock revetment by installing a 65' X i8' rock slope. 2 to 4 ton boulders shall be utilized by placing them on filter fabric and a 1' layer of rock chips (4"-6'~ tailings) and a 1 1/2:1 slope will be created. No grout of any type will be used and any disturbed areas will be filled with loam and seeded. Located Fox Ave., Fishers Island. 6-1-2. No action will be taken until a full coordination can be done. 3. Docko, Inco on behalf of KATHERINE HALE reconstruct 55+/- L.F. of 6' wide. fixed wood dock replacing stone filled wood cribs with driven piles for support and maintain a 16' X 10~ floating dock including support piles. Located Sterling Street, Fishers Island. ~10-9-6. No assessment necessary on tYPe II, set public hearing for next meeting. 5. Jo~ Geidemann on behalf of SANDFORD FRIEMAN to extend existing dock 100' also permit for existing beach house and deck that was built in the 1950's as per survey dated as received February 7, 1994. Located Old Harbor Road, New Suffolk. ~117-3-8.4. No assessment necessary on type II, set public hearing for next meeting. VI. RESOLUTIONS: I. Board to set public hearings for the May 26, 1994 regular meeting for those applications that have received a negative declaration and the following applications that are Type II actions. a. John & Mary Murphy 43-5-4 & 18 b. Robert Garben 70-4-5 ~oard of Trustees 36 April 28, 1994 c. Daniel Maggio 86-2-11 d. John & Mary Kelly 103-3-15 e. Thomas Kelly 11.1-5-1 f. Thomas & Roby Gluckman 111-5-2 g. Francis Perrone 111-1-21 h. Richard & Pamela Frerking 115-12-9 i. Old Cove Yacht Club 117-5-13,14.1,14.2 A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRELL to set the above for public hearings. 2. DR. NORA HICKEY requests permission to transfer dock permit and rights to use a ground stake and pulley-line (permit %412) for mooring from Frank Pileski to her. Located Rochelle Place at James Creek. House located 345 Bartley Road, Mattituck. ~144-3-25. A motion was made bM TRUSTEEKRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRELL to deny permit 91332 to be transferred based on ROW is Town owned and policy is that no docks on Town owned ROWs. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRELL to approve the transfer of permit 9412 (stake and pulley) to Dr. Hickey. ALL AYES. 3. CHARLES E. FRASER requests a grandfather permit for a 100' existing bulkhead built prior to 1939. Reconstructed approx. 1958 by Rambo. Jetty also built approx. 1969. Located 7325 Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue. South of Bridge LaneL 118-4-1. A motion was made TRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE WENCZEL to approve grandfather application. ALL AYES. 4. RDWARD DEUTSCH requests a refund of pezmit fees ($368.00) for 213 1.f. of timber retaining wall, a 4' X 16' hinged ramp and a 6' X 20' float. Located Briar Lane, Southold. %81-1-16.1. A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE WENCZEL to grant the refund and there by cancelling the permit for a dock. ALL AYES. VII. MOORINGS: 1. John Kowalski requests a mooring in Mattituck Creek for a 2I' outboard with a 1001b mushroom. Access: Knotlwood Lane. A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL tc grant approval. ALL AYES. 2. Gayle Marriner-Smith request a mooring in Town Creek for a 23' sail boat with two 100lb mushrooms (fore & Aft). Access Founders Landing. A motion was made by TRUSTEE Ki~UPSKI and seconded by TRUST~. HOLZAPFEL to grant approval subject to th~ B=~ approval. ALL AYES. RECEIVED AND FILED BY Meeting adjourned 11:50 P.M. T~E ~O~ ....... D TO¥,?N R~spectiully submitted DATE ~/~/~~.~oL"~ oh erk U~oard of Trustees Town C~rk, Town o~