HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-06/29/1995 Albert J. Krupski, President
John Holzapfel, Vice President
William G. Albertson
Martin H. Garrell
Peter Wenczel
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Town Hall
53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold. New York 11971
Telephone (516) 765-1892
Fax (516) 765-1823
MINUTES
JUNE 29, 1995
PRESENT WERE:
Albert J. Krupski, Jr, President
John Holzapfel, Vice-President
William G. Albertson, Trustee
Martin Ho Garrell, Trustee
Peter Wenczel, Trustee
CALL MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Thursday, July 27, 1995 at 7 pm
WORKSESSION: 6:00 ~m
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded.
ALL AYES
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, July 19, 1995 at 12 noon
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE ~T.RERTSON seconded.
ALL AYES
APPROVE MINUTES: Approved minutes of May 25th regular meeting:
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded.
ALL AYES
I. MONTHS¥~iREPORT: Trustees monthly report for May 1995: A
check for $7,163.29 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office
for the General FUnd.
;~:~Public Notices are posted on the Town
Board for review.
III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CMANGES:
1. RIC~N~kRD MAUTNER requests anAmendment to Permit $4193 to
construct a 20' X 35' deck to an existing house. Located 2055
Bayshore Road, Greenport. SCTM ~53-4-12
TRUSTEE GARRELL moved to approve the Amendment, TRUSTEE
ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
Board of Trustees 2 June 29, 1995
2. PATRICK CALLAHAN requests al~¥ear extension on Permit
~4195 to construct a 3' X 18' elevated catwalk, a 3' X 10' ramp
and a 5' X 12' float located approx. 15' from south property
line. Located: Easterly side of Deep Hole Drive, approx. 900'
south of New Suffolk Ave., New Suffolk. SCTM ~115-17-6.2
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve the 1-year extension, TRUSTEE
HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES
3. Jennifer Gould on behalf of ARNOLD BLAIR requests a Waiver
to construct a 6' chain link fence to mark the boundary lines of
applicant's property and to post a "no trespassing" sign.
Located: Cedar Lane, East Marion. SCTM ~37-7-10.2
TRUSTEE GARRELL moved to approve the Waiver, TRUSTEE ALBERTSON
seconded, TRUSTEE KRUPSKI abstained.
4. Samuels and Steelman on behalf of DAVID AIR requests an
Amendment to Permit ~4426 to increase the first floor portion of
the porch. Located: 2072 Village Lane, Orient. SCTM #24-2-27
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Amendment, TRUSTEE
ALBERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON moved to go off the regular meeting and go
onto the Public Hearing, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING
APPLICATIONS FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE
SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO
ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC.
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF:
FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS~ IF POSSIBLE
:!5 p.m. - In the matter of Costello Marine on behalf of LOUIS
. i'BA~ON requests a Wetland Permit to dredge approx. 2700 c.y.
10~15% brick, 20% gravel and 65% sand, to 5' below MLW.
Material to be trucked away to approve upland site. Ferry
berthing area to be maintained at 7' below AMLW. Located:
Robins Island. SCTM ~134-3-5
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
in favor of this application?
JOHN COSTELLO: I represent Costello Marine Contracting, the
agent for Mr. Bacon on this application. The single purpose for
this application and the through some experience last winter of
rebuilding the dock on Robin's Island, the tides over there run
extremely hig~ and extremely low with certain weather
conditions.~And to provide a safe access, and this is basically
the only access to the Island, will require some dredging in
order to be able to securely fasten boats and moor boats in
heavy north east winds and north west winds which result in
quite low tides. Most of the Board visited the Island one day
and saw the circumstances. We learned quite a bit last winter
by operating the entire winter over there and it needs some
dredging in order to provide this single access to the Island.
Any questions that the Board has or the public, I will try to
answer them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone else who would like to speak in favor
of the application? Anyone who would like to speak against the
application? Does the Board have any questions?
MR. ANGELL: CAC recommended approval.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion that we approve the
application for dredging.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
7:27 p.m. In the matter of En-Consultants on behalf of NICK
ARONAIDIS requests a Wetland & Coastal Erosion Permits to
construct 185 1.f. (plus 2- 15' returns) of stone revetment
using 3-5 ton stone on 100-1,000 core, and a 10-50 lb. blanket.
Approx. 375 c.y. of clean sand will be trucked in for backfill.
A 12' wide area of revetment will be made suitable for a boat
launching ramp for owner's private use. Located: 1090 Latham
Lane, Orient. SCTM %15-9-1.6
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
in favor of. this application?
ROB HERMANN: The project is, as we discussed last month
during the Assessment phase, and I'm here, as is Tom Samuels,
the contractor for the project to answer any questions which
might still remain.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
against the application? Does the Board have any questions?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's just the positioning of the top of the
stone. We were talking about the flag pole there. That's all
understood. We had said that that would be where the top of
the ....
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We should have measured from the house. On
the survey, it says the top of the bank, which I imagine would
be the top of the proposed revetment. It says on the survey 55'
from the house.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We just didn't want the revetment to stick
out across the beach.
ROB: We discussed that last month.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Right, that's all, I just want to make sure
it wasn't any new 'ballgame' It was just reiterating what we
said last month.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other Board comment or questions? CAC
recommends approval.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: So the perimeters are exactly what we looked
at last month?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: I move the public hearing be closed.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to approve.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
7:30 p.m. - In the matter of Costello Marine Contracting on
behalf of BARBARA DEFINA requests a Wetland & Coastal Erosion
Permit to install 40' of dumped rock rip-rap for erosion
control. Located: Willow Terrace, Orient. SCTM ~26-2-7.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone here who would like to speak in favor
of the application?
GEORGE COSTELLO: The purpose of this application is, she has a
little bit of high ground facing west. Her south neighbor has a
wooden bulkhead and little bit bordering his high ground and the
last storm we had she lost a little high ground which is
American Beach Grass, Rosa Ragosa and other sea shore
vegetation and we want to put some dump rock there and small rip
rap just to protect the little bit of upland.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else who would like to speak
in favor of the application? Is there anyone who would like to
speak against the application? CAC recommends approval provided
the applicant grades so the toe of the rip rap is buried and
planted with beach grass and maintain a ten foot non-turf buffer
instead of a lawn behind the rip rap. I'm just looking here for
a plan as to .....
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I looked at this. It's fairly straight
forward. Where she's putting the wall is fairly up. It's at an
angle and only goes half way across the property and the only
concern I have is the same vegetative buffer on 'the other side
of it so the lawn doesn't go right down.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: CAC recommended planning beach grass. Which
side, the beach side or upland side.
MR. ANGELL: The beach side.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there some there?
MR. ANGELL: Yes.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: There was all growth in front of it. We
just want to replace that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other Board co~m~ents?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Motion to close.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion we approve said
application with the stipulations that there will be a 10'
vegetative non-turfed buffer behind landward of the structure
and that the toe of the structure be planted with beach grass.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
7:33 p.m. - In the matter of Costello Marine Contracting on
behalf of DORIS COSGROVE requests a Wetland Permit~ to
construct a 3' X 40' catwalk, a 3' X 18' ramp, a 6' K 20' float
and 2- 2-pile dolphins. Located: Indian Neck Lane, Peconic.
SCTM ~86-5-9.4
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
in favor of the application?
GEORGE COSTELLO: The purpose of this project is just to provide
mooring mooring for two boats. One on either side of the
float. Fairly shallow water. 3 1/2' above the wetlands.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else here who would like to
speak either in favor or against the application?
MR. ANGELL: CAC recommended approval.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a comment. I inspected this one and
it's about the minimum size structure you can have in that
area. It's pretty straight forward. I would recommend approval
also. No other comment?
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
7:34 p.m. In the matter of SUSAN NORRIS requests a Wetland
Permit to reconstruct an 8' X 70' timber dock and add a 10'
extension to it. Located: 2790 New Suffolk Ave., Mattituck.
SCTM ~123-9-1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
either in favor or against the application? We gave them a
Grandfather on the rock jetties and let them rebuild those.
other co~m,ent? Do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So moved.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to approve.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
Any
7:36 p.m. In the matter of Bruce Anderson on behalf of PEGGY
HELLER & ANNE WYDEN requests a Wetland Permit to construct a
2,982+/- s.f. single family dwelling (base floor), an 800+/-
s.f. attached deck, an 840+/- s.f. attached garage, an 876+/-'
gravel driveway, a 318+/- s.f. walkway, well and septic system.
Located: south end of Majors Pond Road at its' juncture with
Willow Terrace Lane, Orient. SCTM ~26-2-39.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
in favor of the application?
BRUCE ANDERSON: As you know we filed for this application on
March 29, 1995 to construct a single family dwelling, attached
garage, well, septic and related pertinencies. This is a
strange lot in respect to items. The first item is while we're
here and that wetlands. As you know we have Majors Pond which
is located adjacent to the property and to the east tidal
wetlands due to shore line of Peconic Bay are not an issue as
they are a located south. Subject property behind the
jurisdiction of this Board as well as DEC. The second
constraint we are operating under the Zoning constraint issue is
if~you recall we submitted an original application that sort the
balanced the zoning constraints with the wetlands constraints.
Essentially what we have here is a lot in an R-80 zone that does
not have the minimum area. And also because of the shape we're
further constrained with respect to lot depth and front yard set
back and rear yard set back. Our original application was to
balance the wetland set back with the zoning set back and at the
request of this Board we re-located the pro_posed dwelling an
additional 10' further from the wetland. -~herefore locating it
the same also 10' closer to the road. I'm~here tonight to -
represent the project and I also have an amendment to the
project. And because this project is also regulated by the DEC
we have met with them and what we have arrived at is an
alternative plan that essentially shows the house as shown in
the most current survey but what we did is extended the limit of
clearing. We made that more constrained and provided for a
larger natural buffer. This is actually the most current
proposal and this is a project will meet with the DEC
requirement and I trust since it is more restrictive than what
you had already requested. We knew that it would meet'your
criterion as well. As you know we have analyzed the upland area
and analyzed the wetlands and we have concluded that both
systems are marginally value having undergone obvious prior
disturbance. We've also analyzed potential impacts and
concluded that they are not significant. I'm here to answer any
questions you may have. I would like to request that not only
that a permit be granted but also because we have been so
cooperative and flexible in our design, we will hope that this
will support our zoning variance application which we are
prepared to make following the issuance of this permit. And I
would say that that would be an important thing to do and
something that would be in your best interest because if the
zoning variance fails, particularly with respect with it's set
back to the road, it will force us to come back to this Board
with a house that will be closer to the wetlands. ~[f your have
any questions I'm here to answer.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
in favor or against this application?
MR. FITZGERALD: How far is the set back? Are they both fresh
water and ....
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Only fresh water.
MR. ANDERSON: Fresh water wetlands is what we're here for.
MR. FITZGERALD: What is the set back that you .....
MR. ANDERSON: The house will be 62' from the landward edge of
the freshwater wetlands as determined not by the pond shoreline,
but by the vegetation that grows around the pond.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The CAC recommends approval with stipulations
that they move the house for a 30' set back off the road which
will be 75' from the wetlands. Maintain a non-turf buffer 20'
from the 10' contour line. Use haybales and silt fencing during
construction. Move the cess pool system to the north.
MR. ANGELL: We suggested to move the cess pool system to the
~nsr-th-,qo~-~hat they could put the house closer to the road. If
~o~gonn~.o for a variance, you might as well go for a
Varl~e just outside the jurisdiction.
MR. ANDERSON: I'd like to address that point. It is not a
question of when\one goes for a variance if we're going to go
for a variance,~hy not move it right up against the road. The
Zoning Board of~ppeals operates under a number of criterion.
Those criterions include the character of the area. We have
looked at the house in the area and we have determined that the
average set back between those houses and the road is somewhere
between 50 & 60'. What we are applying for is less than that.
And that is why we need your help in doing that. If we were to
move the house an additional 10' or ~3' to be more accurately
the closer it goes, our billage to get that variance would be
severely jeopardized. I can tell you that the nature of this
development is such that we are building on flat land, we are
providing for the control of all run off. We have located that
septic system between the existing dwelling and the road for a
reason. To relocate the septic system further to the north, we
put it essentially upgrading from the path with a swale that
leads to the ponds from the northwest. And you will see that is
precisely the area where we have provided for the maximum
protection beyond this Boards jurisdiction of natural
vegetation. So what I'm saying is while it may be convenient to
put the septic system further to the north, to push the house
closer to the road, in having to do so would be po~tentially
greater than where we have placed the septic system here, which
is putting it upgrading from the pond. And I don't think that
would be in. the interest of this Board and I think it would be
contrary to the intent as stated in the wetlands law that we all
have live by. Aside from that, as I already mentioned, what
would result that would be grossly out of character with the
area in what terms of the set backs are prevalent in that area
and I think that would make our case with the Zoning Board
extremely difficult. I would ask in the strongest way that you
would not reject that particular recommendation.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I just wanted to say for the record, the
reason we want to be extremely protective of this pond is it's
not the most prominent physical or environmental resource in the
Town, however, past decisions of activity on this pond by this
Board have been extremely restrictive and we don't want to go
ahead and act on this lot and forget the precedent that has been
set by this Board already. From the survey, this is the last
buildable lot on this pond. It's somewhat or infrequently
communicates with the Bay. So it's sort of a valuable wildlife
area and a valuable freshwater wetland salt water eco-system.
That's why we are being over cautious at trying to explore
everything we possibly can to see that that the integrity of
this pond isn't compromised on the last house.
MR. ANDERSON: As I said, with the septic arrangement as it is
the septic flow. That affluent, traveling away from the pond,
so to move it further to the north would mean that septic
affluent would float towards the pond. So that would not be in
keeping with this Boards past practice. With respect to the
quality of that adjacent area I think we already demonstrated
that it that there is prior disturbance as evidence by the
reponderance of locust, flat cherry, and early successional
field growth that is prevalent throughout most of the site. As
well as the phragmites that constitute the wetlands edge in
this case. I think the concern that the Board should have in
this case, and I would certainly advise the Board, would be one
of preventing turfed areas that would send to the wetland edge
which is a pond. We have maximized a natural buffer precisely
in this location as to minimize the potential for that to
occur. So I can find no basis for relocating the house yet
further or closer to the road than it is.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What are the current restrictions that...the
current C & R's that your restrained within that sub-division?
MR. ANDERSON: This is not part of the sub-division. This is a
described parcel both single and separate prior enactments of
zoning. And what's interesting is, when you look at your zoning
code, your zoning code actually varies from other zoning codes
that I analyzed in that most zoning codes provide for
as-of-right dimensional relief of pre-existing non-conforming
parcels. It is a common used phase are 4 tenths rules 'and 3
tenths rules which provide you automatic set back relief from
various property lines. And in your code that same relief is
provided for our ten zones, our 20 zones, up to R-40, but it is
not provided in the R-80 zone. And I suspect the reason for
that is when the code was drafted no one would have suspected
that a property meeting in an R-80 zone would ever encounter a
dimensional~problem. But we encountered it here because this is
a lot that is long and narrow. And that is what is forcing us
to get a variance. Now, for your information, on the R-80 zone,
as I said, it doesn't apply with respect to area, your lot depth
is 250' in an R-80 zone, which occurs no where on this
property. Your front yard set back for a principal structure is
60' Your rear yard structure is 100'. And if you look at your
lots in depth and you look at your dimensional restrictions on
this, you'll find that it just cannot comply with zoning. Which
is a true practical hardship. Besides that we also have to look
at the environment. And that is something the Zoning Board will
have to do. And as I've said before, having looked at the
environmental impacts, having adjusted the project, having
adjusted the clearing lines, having carefully sided the wetlands
system, having placed the well upgraded from that septic system
so that no impact to drinking water would occur. I think it's
actually a very creative and a very protective design for this
particular loto
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does the Board have any questions or comments?
TRUSTEE GARRELL: What is the limit of your turf.
MR. Anderson: Well it varies. The lawn and .... to be honest
with you my client is not a "lawn person". What we're really
talking about here is more a flower garden type of situation.
MR. ANGELL: Al, if I could, I'd like to suggest as a CAC
member to be as restrictive as possible in the permit, as people
do sell houses, and the next owner might like a lawn.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh, sure. Is there any comment? Any other
comment from the Board?
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Move to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with a condition that we approve the new survey dated 6/29/95
and turf area be limited to that crayon-like line on the survey
(FEMA) that's marked limit of clearing and grOund disturbance,
and that any other clearing on the pond side will be treated as
a violation, that all water roof run-off be contained in dry
wells, that haybales and silt fence we maintained during
construction and during the landscaping establishment.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL did not vote.
MR. ANDERSON: Can I ask for another motion? That we draft a
letter in support of our variance application?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll tell what we'll do.
MR. ANDERSON: It's just that if we're not successful we're
gonna have to come back to you with something closer to the
wetlands and I'd like to avoid that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Since your our passed consultant and in high
standing, we'll draft a letter to the ZBA requesting that they
keep the house as far landward as possible because of the
sensitive nature of the pond.
MR. ANDERSON: Fine.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And if they decide in their in wisdom to grant
you a house closer to the road than what is applied for here
then we would be happy to amend that permit. I hate to put you
through the paces here.
MR. ANDERSON: The pond is not really the contention here, it's
the playground and the Bay that is directly to the south cf it.
The pond is more of a constraint for us.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I know, it's just that we have been so
protective of it, the last lot, and we want to be consistent on
that.
7:55 p.m. In the matter of Matthew Mc Kiernan on behalf of
VIRGINIA CROPPER & CECELIAKEMPLER request a Wetland Pe~,it to
construct a single family residence, an 80' timber bulkhead with
2- 12' returns along westerly bank of Petty's Pond, fill
approx. 40 c.y. of clean fill, a 3' X 25' catwalk, a 3' X 14'
ramp leading to a 4' X 5' float leading to a 6' X 20' float.
Located: Arshamomoque Ave., Southold. SCTM ~66-3-9
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I believe there has been a change in the
description of this that we have on file which eliminates the
bulkhead and the house would be essentially outside of our
jurisdiction. And the only thing we would be approving tonight
would be catwalk, ramp and float. Is there anyone here who
would like to speak either in favor or against this
application? Any other comment?
MR. ANGELL: CAC recommended approval on the house, we didn't
think the bulkhead was necessary but since that's been withdrawn
no sense getting involved with that, and we also thought that
she-should extend the catwalk landward.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Which we did that, we had them extend it 10'
landward.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Move to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion that we approve the
application that was amended on 6/5/95 which will remove the
bulkhead and change the catwalk to 3' X 25'.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
8:02 p.m. - In the matter of Larry Lisco on behalf of PAUL'
C~CIOPPO requests a ~etland Permit to construct a single
family dwelling. Located: New Suffolk Ave., New Suffolk. SCTM
~116-3-18.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
in favor or against this application? CAC recommends approval
with conditions that there be no disturbance of a 50' buffer
from the wetland line and that haybales and silt fence be used
landward of the buffer at the toe of the fill line during
construction. This is basically a rerun of old Beale
application. The 50' line is basically from the driveway. So
we would be approving a no disturbance area on the west side of
the driveway. Any other comments?
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Move that the public hearing be closed.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to approve with condition that be no
disturbance on the west side of driveway and haybales and silt
fence be placed during construction.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES
8:05 p.m. - In the matter of Donald G. Feiler on behalf of
AR~{UR AXBERG JR., requests a Wetland Permit to construct a
timber bulkhead 2'9" in front of existing bulkhead and tie into
neighbors to west. Located: Camp Mineola Road, Mattituck.
SCTM ~123-5-34
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
on behalf of Mr. Axberg?
DON FIELER: I'm here on behalf of Mr. Axberg.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else here who would like to
speak on behalf of Mr. Axberg? Is there anyone here who would
like to speak against this application?
RICHMOND CORWIN: I'm the property owner east of Mr.
Axberg. On Monday I submitted to your office some written
comments and drawings expressing my concerns to that I would
like to add that the same papers that were submitted to your
office were submitted to the office of Young & Young, Mr. Thomas
Wolpert professional engineer, for his observation on the same
papers. I have copies of his response to that. My property has
been in the family for 60+ years. I have quite a bit of back
ground as to the history of construction of most of the houses
in that particular area. In particular the reason for the high
bulkhead which is just to the west of Mr. Axberg's property.
That was an undeveloped piece of land until the early '60's. In
fact the present owner purchased it in 1960, and developed it in
'60~-& '61. Since it was undeveloped the bulkhead had fallen in
disrepair. He being a neophite to the area and not
understanding anything, just decided to build a wall and keep
the water out. In so doing it caused the other properties
around him to have lower bulkheads and built a returns. So we
had a bulkhead that was 2'2" higher than the surrounding
bulkheads. He built a return of about 6' on each side of his
property. That has created in each of the major tidal
floodings that we've had with the coastal storms and erosion
problem for Mr. Axberg. I do have pictures here that also
show what that erosion is like on both Mr. Axberg's property
as well as Mr. Brendell's property. What Mr. Axberg has
expressed to me verbally and not supported in the application as
I have reviewed it, is his plan to increase the height of the
bulkhead to the same height as his neighbor to the west and
build of return to retain the fill that he plans to add to his
property. He verbally told me to go view the property two
houses to the west of him, Mr. Shidlow's property, to see how
it would look. I have pictures of that as well. My concern is
up until this point and I have lived in that house, physically
in it, much to the chagrin of the fire department through l0
hurricanes. There has never been any water in the house or Mr.
Axberg's house. There has never been any serious erosion in
front any of our properties along that area where the bulkhead
is low. The damage has been primarily behind the bulkheads that
have been razed. As I stated the Brendell property was
developed in 1961. Subsequent to that time the others to the
west raised their bulkheads. This is all pre-DEC and
environmental considerations were not in question at that time.
It's my concern as expressed in the material submitted to the
office.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let me just read it. (Al read letter) (See
letter attached). I think we get the picture. What I'd like to
see on the plan, and there's two plans here.
MR. CORWIN: He had originally proposed to just move the
entire bulkhead out than 2'6 or 9". And I voiced grave concern
at that time and took him down the beach at what had happened
where that had been allowed, on the Mill's property, He
therefore went back and redrew the line to pick up my corner
bulkhead and just angle it out to the property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's something 'that we would have required.
We wouldn't have allowed him to put that strange jog out into
the Bay like that. We would require him to match up, especially
where it's doable here, physically impossible between the two
neighbors in a straight line. So you wouldn't have that jog.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Given the problems which you all have in
common, you and Brendell, and Axberg. Have you ever gotten
together with Fieler or anybody else to discuss a common
approach which would take care of every ones needs.
MR. CORWIN: No sir, because I only been made .... I don't live
here all year round. Most of the people are summer people. I
used to be an all year round resident. I now reside in Annapolis
Md. The first we even heard about this plan was Easter. The
first that I heard about this application was reading in the
Suffolk Times. There has been no communication what so ever.
Let me add one more thing. The property has been in the family
for over 60 years. It lived through a lot of storms. Most of
the summer people who come out have never experienced a
hurricane. And in some cases, like Mr. Axberg, he has not
even seen the damage immediately afterwards. Usually by the
time that he comes out a good bit of damage has been already
cleaned up. It's been very hard. When I lived here as an all
year round resident, I served as Association President for a
number of years. To try and explain to these people what
happens with the water, the flow of water and how it goes. Last
Saturday's as an example we had an Association Meeting. There
is one parcel of land that we visited the area to the west that
is the Association beach. One resident made a suggestion that
we raise some kind of a barricade to keep the water from the Bay
from going in the back and flooding his property. If he had
ever been there when we had a storm he would know that the
majority of the water comes form James Creek in the back before
it ever comes over the front. But 'this is the mentality that
we've had to live with. My brother-in-law and I are practically
the only beacons in the night. In spite of the fact that Mr.
Brendell has owned this property for over 30 years, he still
doesn't have a clue as to what's happening as far as erosion,
the water, the wind and the storms.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well to address the problem of the bulkhead we
might be better to take a second look. We didn't notice the
height. One of the things that we've been doing throughout the
Town as a matter of course, is letting people raise the height
of their houses because there has been a lot of flooding
throughout the T%own. Many people do it. Without the addition
of fill because it's not necessarily necessary in addition it
could cause a problem to a neighbor like yourself or maybe the
other side. There is no mention of a long retaining wall in his
application. Mr. Fieler can you answer that?
MR. FIELER: There's nothing in the application. What he's
doing as far as this application is concerned is, he also
applied to the DEC for a permit for the bulkhead change. Under
their guidelines which allows him to raise the bulkhead up and
I'm not sure how much filling in on the property he's doing and
I'm not sure on this bulkhead that he's talking about on the
side lines. I guess he has two choices if he's gonna put a
lot of fill in there. One is to taper down to the neighbors
property or to put up some bulkheads on the neighbors property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: One thing that passed our clerical staff is we
need an updated survey within a year. And this is the last
update here, 1970. The other thing is it says "project plan".
It shows 50' from Corwin's property to the end of the proposed
return. We were out there on a pretty bad day but it didn't
look like 60' feet me. It's 60' between your property and the
end of his bulkhead?
MR. FIELER: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So he owns 60' passed where he wants to build
a bulkhead?
MR. FIELER: No. The property width is 60'
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, doesn't that show that there's 60' between
there?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It appears as if the edge of his bulkhead
and there's 60' to your property line.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It looks like that.
MR. FIELER: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're gonna have to table this public
hearing because we need more information. We're gonna need an
updated survey that's gonna show the placement of the fill and
the grade and if there is gonna be a proposed wall which the
neighbor has expressed will have the effect of eroding his
property during a strong east storm.
MR. FIELER: If there is no bulkheaded wall between the
property and he installed fill, and even if he had no
application for a bulkhead change that could all be done without
any prudence.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just installing the fill?
MR. FIELER: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's still an activity. Any activity within
75'
MR. FIELER: Then a previous application would be become a
waiver for the changes in the ....
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: To raise the house. But that was not...we
didn't grant any approval for fill. So for fill placement we
would have to have that put on an updated survey and the survey
would also have to show in scale any proposed returns.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Could you keep Mr. Corwin appraised of this
so that he gets it crossed off while the planning goes on.
MR. FIELER: Well, I'll talk to Mr. Axberg.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to table the public hearing
until we get all the information we need to make a decision.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES
8:27 p.m. - In the matter of J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of
FIDCO~requests a Wetland Permit to install 2- 10' X 16'
floats, 4- 10' X 16' floats, 4- 6' X 18' floats, to replace open
pile lost in 12/94 storm, to relocate 2 existing piles and
install 4 new spring piles at existing yacht club, as per survey
dated April 5, 1995. Located: Crescent Ave., Fishers Island.
SCTM ~10-1-9
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here to speak either against
or for this application? Any other comment?
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I~ll make a motion to approve the
application.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES
8:29 p.m. - In the matter of J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of
~ISIS~BARTELS requests a Wetland P~rmit to construct a 4' X
50' fixed dock (elev. over grade of marsh), a 3' X 14' ramp
and a 6' X 20' float. Located: Private Rd. ~3, Fishers
Island. SCTM ~10-3-10
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
on behalf of or against this application? This Board have any
questions. It doesn't seem like 50' is going to give them that
great the depth of water. However, that is what they applied
for.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's very shallow. It's about a foot or
foot and a half. There's a shallow bank that goes way out to
the channel.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But once you get out into the harbor there, I
don't know far you could approve anything.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: They know that and that's what they wanted.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Move to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion to approve the
application.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
8:30 p.m. - In the matter of EILEEN VILLANI requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a 3' X 95' dock, a 3' X 15' ramp to a 6' X
20' float as per drawing dated as received May 18, 1995.
Located: Indian Neck Road, Peconic. SCTM ~86-6-10
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
on behalf of or against this application? CAC have any comments?
MR. ANGELL: We recommended approval but I really thi~k the
scope of the project is a little excessive on the intrusion into
the creek and we think we you should require the applicant to
shorten the catwalk.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think over the course of time we have
requested that and they have shortened it a considerable amount.
MR. ANGELL: On the application there was no soundings so we
can't really make a recommendation.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I took a look at this. This looks like a
tremendous dock. But when you go out there there's no water.
There's no water until you get to the end of the dock and the
start of the ramp. And then it drops off and it's pure mush.
So I had the same reaction, but there's not way the dock could
be floating unless they go out that far. Unfortunately it's a
big structure across the water.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comments.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Move to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I'll make a motion we approve the application.
TRUSTEE HO~ZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES
8:40 p.m. - In the matter of Proper-T Services on behalf of
DAVID CICH~%NOWICZ requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 3' X
35' fixed open walkway, a 3' X 16' hinged ramp and a 6' X 20'
float with 3- 2-pile dolphins to secure floating dock. Located:
1425 Arshamomoque Ave., Southold. SCTM 966-3-16
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would to speak in
favor or against this application?
MR. FITZGERALD.: I represent Mr. Cichanowicz if there are any
questions.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: This is another one I went wading at. I have
a question. Could we shorten this a little bit for two
reasons. One, when I was wading there I measured out from those
two stakes you put into the ground which is the beginning of the
dock. I was there about 4:30 this afternoon. It wasn't quite
low tide, but it was approaching. And 35' from those stakes
they have 1'2". At 40' from those stakes it drops right off.
And then you get into that mush there. At 40' from the stakes I
had 2'. At 44' they had 2'2" to the top of the mush.
At 48' they had 2'6". In consideration of what we just approved
for the neighbor, which is only extends out 35' from MHW. The
same situation. If we could come back a few feet and put the
inside edge of the floating dock at 40' it would have adequate
water on the outside and it would make it more in keeping with
what's already been approved. So just looking at the high water
mark if we bring .....
MR. FITZGERALD: The high water mark is essentially the back.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: If we come in 10' with that float that's still
puts you in plenty of water~
MR. FITZGERALD: I think we have a problem because you will see
here and on the survey from the stake to the bank and the high
water mark is 17'. I measured from the bank to the iow water
mark 15' when it was low water. That's 32'. So that this 35'
walkway that is showing extends 3' beyond the low wate~ mark~
When I was wading around in the muck I was not able to find that
depth of water at low tide either above the mark or below it or
whatever. I think it would be good if it were not compared to
the neighbors application because there appeared to be a little
bit of uncertainty about who was doing what to whom as far as
the dimensions were concerned on the other property. I was here
the last time and hear~ how it got to be what it was. And
again, I measured this very carefully. Because I know how
important it is to you and the other members of the Board. And
it is my opinion that this is the minimum that is needed to get
somewhat less than 3' of water clear of stuff at the outer edge
of the float at low water on whatever date it was.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well my feeling was that there is no other
structures extending out this far in this particular creek.
There's no structures extending out at all. There's a bulkhead
on one side of the property and a bulkhead further down to the
south which I would assume he could probably dredged in front of
to provide that kind of depth.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Do the bulkheads extend out further than the
dock?
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: No. My other concern was I couldn't get to
it. There is an off shore not too far there. There is a shoal
that was out in the water when I was there. It appeared that
along this edge was where the channel was also.
MR. FITZGERALD: The shoreward side. I don't know where that
is except that...he said the channel was about half way between
the shore line and that shoal.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: This is low water and this is extending
about~2 feet behind it.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Right. But once you get to 40', 'there's no
water until you get to 40'. My proposal was to put the dock,
the inside edge of the dock there, so that we come in approx.
10'. (Everyone was talking at once).
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: My feeling is that that is 2' into the creek
and that can't protrude that much out.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Are you saying that other come out .... that
this is a point?
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: No, there are no other docks that extend out
into the creek.
MR. FITZGERALD: This guy ties up his boat next to his bulkhead.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Any other comments?
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion that we approve the
application.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Nay
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Abstained.
8:46 p.m. - In the matter of DR. JOHN ALOIA requests a Wetland
Permit to rebuild inkind/inplace 14 feet of off-shore end of
jetty, rebuild a 3' X 3' access stairway from existing platform
to bulkhead, install a 3' X 8; set of access stairs from
bulkhead to beach. Located: 8145 Nassau Point Road, Cutchogue.
SCTM ~118-4-9
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to comment
either in favor or against this application?
MR. ANGELL: CAC recommends approval of the rebuild of the
access stairway the 3' X 3' and platform to bulkhead and
recommends disapproval of the 14' off shore end of jetty as it
is not functioning.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: From the picture it looked like it was
functioning. I was out there and it was high water. What was
submitted in the file looked good.
MR. ANGELL: We also recommended that they plant behind the
bulkhead and plant beach grass. Any comment by the Board?
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move to close the public hearing.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to approve the application
with the condition that the applicant replant behind the
bulkhead with American beach grass.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES
8:48 p.m. In the matter of ROBERT SIMON requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a 23' X 32' garage on westerly portion of
property with an access bridge across wetland area approx. 10'
wide X 50' long raised 8' above wetland supported by concrete
piers on each end. Located: 379 Wood Lane, Peconic. SCTM
386-6-3.1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
in favor of this application?
MR. SIMON: At last months meeting I a formal presentation and
the Board asked me to follow through on several items. I
contacted Allan Connell and he gave me a pre-construction
plan which the Board has, a close construction plan for the
vegetation also further drawings on the abutments with the side
wings for the containment area. The serge is a large flat rock
which would be approx. 30" on one end and 0" on the other. 2,
3, or 4" inches of blend on top of that with 3/4" stone retained
by 12' long 2 X 6 horizontal supported by 6 X 6 CCA. In in
addition to that there was a question about fire access.
check with the Building Dept. Item 280A of the NYS
Building Code requires that access be gained only to the
property itself and not to any structure thereon. According to
Gary Fish also it doesn't pertain to this case. The roadway has
to get the fire dept. to the property. There are instances
where someone might have a house in the front and a garage 1/4
mile in the back and whatever gets there, whether its a roadway
or nothing or woods, whatever. AlSo Lou Chiarella of the DEC
and Diane Sanford spent approx, an hour there and they were
very, very favorable about the bridge access. It's actually out
of the wetlands and Mr. Chiarella took some measurements and
said its actually above the wetland high marsh area.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think you provided us what we asked for.
They recommended the following program is to be completed for
the work area immediately after construction. 1. The two yards
of excavated fill is to be placed on the opposite side of the
property. Which opposite I don't know.
MR. SIMON: Opposite from wherever you are because you're
gonna have some on each side. Opposite from where the work
area is.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 2. To remove the silt fence and straw hay
bales. 3. Complete wing walls and fill as per plan. 4. Cover
the adjacent area with an erosion control blanket. 5. Plant
the area as follows: common red topper quick cover. This was
outlined by Allan Connell, Soil & Water Conservation who is
also a CAC member. The bridge and garage construction: t~
following is to be completed before construction begins.
area of the footings abutment is to be contained in a yew of
black mesh silt fence. Silt fence material is to be placed 6"
into the ground and staked. Immediately behind the silt fence
straw bales are to be placed and staked. All work is to be
performed inside this area. And we have a letter received today
from Carol Bauman. (Al read letter, see attached). Is there
anyone else here who would like to comment either in favor or
against this application?
FLORENCE KULL: I'm a neighbor of Mr. Simon. I just would
like to ask if we could have a set of plans so our professional
engineer can look them over for us. And I would also like you
to keep this open and not close this until we can look into it
further.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All the information has been available in the
office, what would you like to see?
MRS. KULL: The plans. The actual plans of the structure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We don't have plans .... you mean plans what the
garage is gonna look like?
MRS. KULL: The bridge and all that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have all that in the file.
MRS. KULL: May I have a copy of it please?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, you can but not in the middle of a public
hearing. It's been available for months. The information that
Mr. Simon has submitted was received, the last information was
received 6/28/95. The information that I just recently read
into the .... so it is not unreasonable for Mrs. Kull to not
have had time to see that. Is that what you mean, all this
stuff I just read?
MRS. KULL: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else who would like to speak?
FRANK KULL: I would like to know what kind of bridge this is
gonna be. Concrete? Throgs Neck Bridge or what, 10' wide?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's what was read. A 10' X 50' bridge
above the wetland.
MR. KULL: What is it gonna be made of?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Steel with wood planking.
MR. KULL: 10' wide. You gonna be able to take trucks and
cars over there. What's gonna protect the oil from the cars
from going into the water?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It doesn't say.
MR. KULL: And he's going over wetlands, taking cars over? I
don't understand that.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: People do it with farm equipment all'the time.
MR. KULL: Over bridges? Where?
TRUSTEE GARRELL: The oil spillage from a vehicle going over
that property shouldn't be that much concern.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How much oil spillage are we talking about?
MR. KRULL: It leaks from cars, tractors, whatever.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: It's probably worse with your crank case
sitting in your driveway close to a wetlands.
MR. KULL: But your going practically into the water. This is
drink water, Indian Neck, Richmond Creek.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I think the thing we're getting at is that the
plans are in and they've modified 'to address a lot of the
objections. You'll see the DEC and Soil Conservation has
coordinated some of this and we're really doing our best on this
one to insure that there is no real risk to the surrounding
area. I realize there seem to be bad feelings with neighbors on
this and that's unfortunate, but we're just addressing our job
as best we can.
MR. KULL: I understand that but I have to sit at my desk and
look out at a 3 car garage, looking out at creek. De-valueing
all the property around the whole place.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: The only way you can get around that is to buy
the property. We're faced with issues like that in the Town all
the time.
~ ~Tom Samuels; Just as a citizen, the Kull's have been friends
of mine for 35 and they asked me to look at the
years
plans.
Unfortunately I didn't get a chance to look at them. I just
have a couple of questions and I'd like to look at them. What's
the loading on the bridge.
MR. SIMON: 10,000. 5 ton.
MR. SAMUELS: That's a fairly light loading, but if he's gonna
post a sign on it for 5 ton and then what that means is 5 tons
per axel. In engineering terminology that's what that means.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How many tons is the Bridge Lane bridge?
MR. SAMUELS: It's a 20 ton bridge. Are the plans sealed by a
P.E.?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Mr. Simon says yes. Mrs. Kull's request to
have someone go over these plans and is .... although I'd hate to
hold Mr. Simon up tonight because it's been a long time.
Because they have come in so late I don't see how we could deny
that request. Because everything just came in.
MR. SIMON: The bridge plans and abutment plans were filed for
over a month. The only change was the extension of the footings
at the bottom and the wings.
MR. SAMUELS: The neighbors do have a legitimate concern and
have asked me to look at it and if you'll give me a set, I'll
look at them and be very happy to comment.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We hate to keep these things from hanging
around, could you look at them this evening, we'll table them
and then go on to the meeting or do you want 30 days?
MR. SAMUELS: It takes a little while to size members and stuff
like that.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's concrete and steel.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm talking about the material that came in
yesterday, 'cause the rest of it has been on file for months.
I'm talking about what's recently come in. And if you could
look at it and you think you need 30 days we wouldn't deny
anyone their property review.
MR. SAMUELS: I wouldn't need 30 days, but I can't do it 30
minutes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Fine. Any other comment?
DAVID NORSHILD: I'm new to the Southold Town and I just have
some questions as running how I would go about finding out
getting a copy of the DEC report to find out what kind of
containment vessels will be made for any type of runoff from the
bridge. Public bridges have some kind of containment to keep
fluids from going into the wetlands.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The DEC report?
MR. NORSHILD: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: From the DEC.
MR. NORSHILD: Is that public information?
TRUSTEE KRUpSKI: Sure. Any other comment? CAC recommends
approval with the stipulations that the applicant use sediment
barriers, silt fence, and hay bales during construction. Any
driveway surface to be pervious to rain water and all disturbed
ground to regraded and planted. Any other comments of the
Board? I don't see how we can vote on this though. There has
been significant requested information submitted yesterday.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Mr. Simon is a delay gonna be problem with
your construction?
MR. SIMON: There's somewhat of a problem, I have three empty
cars Which is why I want the garage, that they are being stored
in Hicksville and I'm afraid I'm gonna loose pieces and
parts. Second problem is, I have a quote from the company,
Continental Bridge, and it was good for 60 days. And 60 days
are up very shortly. It's at the end of the month I believe. I
just have to go against something that Mrs. Kull said. She
said that nothing in terms of structure of the bridge, nothing
has changed. The only additional information that you got was
the Van Tuyl drawing and the containment for the silt and the
wing wail.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: As far as the construction of the bridge and
the loading and all that, that's the Building Dept's. review.
That's not our. We don't go into construction standards on
docks, decks or houses. But the information that you submitted
in the last day is at our request, is material that has to do
our review and its relevant. If it wasn't relevant to our
review we would really be hemming and hawing. We will again
recess the public hearing and we will vote on this next month.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Did Leu Chiarella give you any concept of
time line with the DEC? In other words you will still have to
wait for their permit.
MR. SIMON: He wanted an updated survey and also ......
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: My point simply is that you don't have the
DEC permit yet. so you can't start anyway.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion to recess the pubic hearing.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL Second. ALL AYES
9:10 p.m. - In the matter of JOHN H. MULHOLLAND & MICHAEL P.
BONTJE request a Wetland Permit to maintenance dredge 400 c.y.
to 3' below MLW on Mulholland & Bontje parcels (privately
owned bottom), remove 200 c.y. each for 400 yards total, dispose
on Mulholland parcel above mean spring high water, (existing
landscaped lawn area), add and restore 3' X 30' open pile dock
to Mulholland and twin pilings to each on remnant piles near
waters edge of Mulholland property. (NOTE: Applicant revised
plan for dredging: 1) the depth has been cut from 4.5 to 3.0
feet, 2) the Bontje & Mulholland docks will be extended
further to avoid vegetated wetlands and sloping will be
increased to 2 on 1 to prevent slumping of the adjacent
spartina area, 3) dredge material will be disposed of off
site. The August Acres development has agreed to take the
dredge material to one of the lots which is outside the Trustees
jurisdiction. Located: 725 & 802 Island View Lane, 300 feet
east of Bayshore Drive, Greenport. SCTM ~57-2-23 & 24
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
in favor of this application?
MICHAEL BONTJE: I went over most of the changes to be more
specific on the dock extensions. The Mulholland dock went
from a 3' X 30' long by 4' wide down to a 3' wide but 45' long.
That was at the request of the DEC to avoid vegetated areas on
either end. Also moving the dredge area further off shore by
about 6' or so also caused an extension for the Bontje dock,
3' wide of about 14' on an angle out to the creek and then a 14'
"L" Shape along the dredging. In other words the dredging has
been extended more to the south combined and diminished east to
west. It's also been shallowed up from 4 1/2' to 3' below
MLW in addition to the sloping area which is already
mentioned. The total for dredge material is 325 yards for
both. Also on one of the items that we have agreed to for the
DEC purposes is, there are several patches to the shore line
adjacent to my existing dock and adjacent to the Mulholland
shoreline which there is spartina on either side 6' wide 12'
wide, whatever it is, a long length, and there's no spartina
in these patch areas. So what we're gonna do is come in and
put spartina altenaflera in those patches.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have a DEC permit?
MR. BONTJE: No, we do not have a DEC permit. We've met with
them however, I believe it was the 21st of June with Leu
Chirarella and Diane Sanford and also Mark Hellman of the
Army Corps of Engineers and this reflects their comments. We
got a written authorization from Posillico Construction to
dispose of the material on one of their lots. So I want to
submit now. It has some conditions. (See letter dated 6/29/95)
As I've already indicated to you is on the August Acres
subdivision we will not .... in other words if he said put it on
"X" lot and there was a wetland there, I would say no we have to
stay 75' from wetlands so as not to need another permit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have a location of that dredge site for
us.
MR. BRONTJE: They haven't given me written location but the
expected location is on western end of lot 15.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone else who would like to speak
on behalf of the applicant? Is there anyone who would like to
against the application:
DEREK MORCOMBE: I am adjacent property owner. You have
already two,letters against this application. Mr. Bontje
stated that the Southold Town Board & Trustees will have no
further jurisdiction in this matter. I would like you to verify
that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm sorry I don't follow you.
MR. MORCOMBE: The application for a wetlands permit.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We have all the authority in granting it or
not granting it.
MR. MORCOMBE: Agreed.
MR. BONTJE: May I clarify this. The reference was to the
disposal area not being within your jurisdiction. Only the
disposal area.
MR. MORCOMBE: Not withstanding the precaution that Mr.
Bontje has offered, I think it will be a concern to the
Property Owners Association I would like to know how as an
adjacent property owner and go with other property owners~ how I
can be~kept advised exactly where it is going and when.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: The dredge spoil?
MR. MORCOMBE: Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are all your comments in relation to just the
dredge spoil locationMR. MORCOMBE: My comments outlined in
the two letters you have on file which behance more or less by
different location of this dredge material. My objection
principally was to having it within less than a stones throw of
my bedroom. It is extremely fetid muck. I speak from
experience of ten years ago. I can give you a drawing, I can
quote whatever information you need. We will need more than a
weeks notice. I suggest a week because the Property Owner's
Association only meets from here on. We would like on-going
information. This meeting was not advertised. I only learned
it yesterday from my neighbors. It was a great surprise for
me. As you know, as an adjacent property owner the Corps of
Engineers are required to evaluate the deed, etc., etc. So I am
now suspicious of any further procedures and am taking the
liberty to speak on behalf of the Property Owners Association,
of which I am a part.
ROBERT SLING: I live on Island View Lane and my property is on
the northeast part of this creek. I have a question and an
observation. The question is, will there be any adverse affect
on the water flow and the amount of water that's in front of my
property due to this dredging. This will be the second dredging
on the other end of the creek. I'm not in opposition with
somebody improving their property, I'm just concerned about the
affects on my property. My second observation is that the creek
should really be dredged at the Bay Inlet. The egress and the
entrance to the creek is really the problem. And that's just an
observation that I would like you to consider.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's something that was brought up' during
our work session. The fact tha't...now that's Town owned bottom,
that little waterway there?
MR. SLING: I have no idea.
MR. BONTJE: The bottom is private.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You think it's all private?
MR. BONTJE: The whole thing is a tax lot for Mulholland.
But your talking about the inlet to the Bay?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
MR. BONTJE: That may be what Sage owns too.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: The Town has had the position that we can't
ask the County to come in and dredge a creek that belongs to
somebody else. In other words we don't want the taxpayers to
pay for your channel. So that's what the questions are coming
from.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But to go back one further. Most of the
underwater land in the Town is owned by the Trustees from the
Colonial Patent of 1676. So by virtue of the patent everyone in
Town owns that property. For whatever reason throughout the
years Suffolk County, the Dept. of Public Works maintenance
dredges the mouths of the inlets that are public property. If
this is privately owned bottom than it's like any other parcel
and the County will not operate in that area for the benefit of
a private individual. And there's other areas ....
MR. SLING: The entrance of the Bay isn't owned by an individual.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But the interface there, there's some property
line~ It starts somewhere between the state .... and in cases
like Wunneweta Lagoon and Nassau Point and Spring Pond in East
Marion and Sages Basin in Greenport where the County will not
dredge because it's privately held bottom and that's why the
County doesn't dredge this area, doesn't keep the mouth open.
MR. SLING: What I'm asking for is that you positive your
position, if you would review it and if it's possible if the
County be involved in dredging, that they be asked to do it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We just did recently review it. What happened
and we were told what happened by a long time resident earlier,
was that Gull Pond was originally privately held. All the land
owners deeded the property to the Town so that the County would
dredge it. And now it's Trustee Land, it's the same as Patent
Land. But unless that's done, it's just like having the County
come and do work on any private piece of property.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: The alternative is also clear if you want a
creek as a private group you have somebody like Costello or Tom
Samuels who can do that. In fact we've had a couple of
proposals that way. People have to get together and decide to
do it, and we are not adverse to that at all.
MR. SLING: But nobody answered my first question.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I can try. Water seeks it's own level.
Where there's a big hole underneath or a shallow hole
underneath, the water level itself is gonna seek. And that's
determined by the highs and lows of the weather pattern going
across, the pressure pushing down on the water, etc., etc. So
the fact that your water will move up or down won't be any
different depending on underneath the surface of the water.
SPEAKER IN AUDIENCE: Wouldn't that be characteristic of~ the
amount of time a tide is in and out. Obviously it will seek the
level of the deepest spot.
TRUSTEE KRUPSK~: This is such a small project given the whole
area of the creek that's it's not gonna have an affect.
SAME SPEAKER: Mr. Meyer from the DEC in Albany said that while
it wouldn't be significant there would be a difference in the
displacement of water based on...
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: More water might move in and out but the
height isn't going to change. In other words your worried about
the height of the water in a storm. That's not gonna be
controlled by how much water is in a hole underneath the surface
of the water. It's much more controlled by external winds
blowing and the pressure on top, when a hurricane comes, the
pressure is so low the water comes up higher. That's what drags
the water in and its not the hole underneath it.
SPEAKER: What your saying to me is the fact it's deeper in one
spot based on the amount of time the tide has to come in and
out, it's'not going to impact the water ..... I understand, we
lived at this house for 24 years, so I know what happens .....
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Let me try to explain. Here's a level at
low tide (indicating with his hands), at high tide it's gone up
two feet, so only that top two feet of water has moved in and
out. Whether this is a hole 50' deep or 4' deep that water
tends to stay there. In other words it's only a movement of
2.4' or whatever that tidal range is for that day. At low tide,
here's level of the water and at high tide here's the level of
the water and its that water moving in and out and whether
there's a hole there underneath doesn't have any effect.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?
MR. MORCOMBE: In the future any matter be advertised so that
I can be given something more than 36 hours.
CLERK: It was advertised in the paper in April and than it was
recessed, the public hearing was recessed for further
information and then Mr. Bentje requested that we recess it
again until He had time to get the information which was now.
SPEAKER: When was this done.
CLERK: It was April. That the public hearing was going to be
taking place in April, which it was and then it was recessed.
And then we don't have to republish again.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We probably should.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: The other thing is it's a good suggestion that
we republish.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We're not running right through this either,
we received the initial application in mid January. We've given
it quite a bit of review.
MR. MORCOMBE: So have I, if I may say so. The two advertised
sections in the paper, you have detailed comments on file. I
object this now because I did not know this meeting was taking
place and I did not have time to research it, I did not have
time to write a letter. If not for my neighbor, because she is
nearer the dredged area now I'm speaking without the necessary
approval on behalf of the Property Owner's Association~
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: If I can paraphrase what you've said, your
objection is to the spoil site.
MR. MORCOMBE: My objection is in the two letters. This is
extremely fetid material. I cannot believe that people are not
gonna be surprised when this done. A lot of people will be
affected by this.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: This property is all privately owned, where
it's gonna be dredged, right?
MR. BONTJE: Yes.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: The whole creek is privately owned~
MR. BONTJE: Yes, where you see it on the drawings, it's
privately owned.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: What is the depth of the creek outside of this
area?
MR. BONTJE: What is the depth? In other words to the south?
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Right.
MR. BONTJE: We're gonna be dredging down to approx.
ordinary high water line. So that at low water you would have
basically an inch at the southern end. At high water you'd have
an extra feet, 2 1/2' on top of that.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Just to follow up, at low tide you can't get
in and out?
MR. BONTJE: Right. You'd probably get in and out with a sail
boat.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: How far does that shallow extend?
MR. BONTJE: 50 to 100'. It gets progressively deeper as you
go out.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You don't own that property?
MR. BONTJE: That's still privately held and owned by
Mulholland. BUt it was never dredged. It was not dredge in
1960's. The area we're dredging now was dredged in 1960. In
other words we're going up to that old dredging line and
stopping there.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think that was a concern that we had
originally that you might be creating a hole there where the
water would never move.
MR. BONTJE: No more or less than Carlucci and Baldwin.
However, the shallowness being 3' deep, I don't think you have
to worry about it being stagnant. You didn't have that problem
with Carlucci and Baldwin before. Actually it's attached to
their basin.
MR. ANGELL: Is there any dredging spoil being on the lawn?
MR. BONTJE: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why did you change the spoil site?
MR. BONTJE: We had some discussions with the DEC regarding
where they consider the wetland line be placed. As you know I
am a wetland expert and an Army Corps of Engineers Certification
for wetlands and have been doing it for 16 years, so Lou and I
were back and forth. Technically he has to notify the property
owner and hold a public hearing in order to change that line.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You work for the Army Corps.
MR. BONTJE: No, I don't work for the Army Corps. They
certify professionals to do wetland delineations. He and I had
a technical discrepancy as to what a line would be. I~ decided
to do is instead of worrying about that argument see if I could
seek an upland location off site. I did. I found one that I
thought was suitable.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did Lou feel there was spartina that would
be covered by the fill?
MR. BONTJE: Originally?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
MR. BONTJE: Yes, he felt there was some .... it was marginal,
right on the edge.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: I guess you intend to watch that fill
carefully and safeguard it.
MR. BONTJE: What we intend to do is remove it and take it to
that site and in that process it should get a tremendous amount
of aeration and again Carlucci did his basin, which is right
next door to mine. I was right there too and you do get an odor
for a couple of days, no doubt about it. I characterize it as a
low tide odor but it's not a Bronx low tide.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: What about a farm field or can somebody use
that stUff as spread.
MR. BONTJE: Frankly the reason August Acres agreed to take it
was they thought it would stabilize a nice top soil.
Carlucci's property and Baldwin's property is built on this
stuff since the 1960's. So they felt it was decent material
they've got a feeling that one lot is a little low in the front
end and they would like to put some material in and we had the
material, so it was a good match. We intend to put it on the
property, work it aerate it and then finally spread it out
within one week into about a foot of depth which is pretty
minimal and lime it and plant it. We also want to do it when
the weather is less warm, less traffic, fewer people in the area
and then it's also cooler out.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How do you de-water it?
MR. BONTJE: Just let it sit.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, how do you move it when you pick it up
it's just ......
MR. BONTJE: It's got enough integrity, we're gonna do it by
bucket. So it's got enough integrity to do it at low tide. To
hold in a bucket and put it right into trucks. You can line the
trucks with f~hric and just run them back and forth.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Let's face it dredge are the issue of the
point for a century because all along the coast now your running
up against where to put dredge spoil. L.I. Sound there's a
terrible issue going on right now with the Themes River.
MR. MORCOMBE: Farmland then belonged to Berduncker Farms
with a potato farm that was fertilized with a Union Carbide
project namely Temic. That poisoned my well and wells in the
entire neighborhood. There was a class action lawsuit. We were
recompensed about $100. Plus they put in a new filter. Ail of
that I know from experience drained into the creeks. But this
is not simply leaves and branches. The cesspools drainage is
there, the residue of Temic and there is the smell which is
indicative of sump. I just want to put to you as fact.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Where do you live in relation to the new spoil
site.
MR. MORCOMBE: Quite a ways away. Perhaps a half a mile or
more.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But you think that new spoil site would affect
you.
MR. MORCOMBE: No. Only as a member of the Property Owner's
Association.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The only concern I have is that when you move
the spoil, you can't just pick it up and put it in a truck
because the physical property of it is just prohibit you from
doing that. Your gonna have to de-water it somewhere.
MR. BRONTJE: We could probably accomplish that on the border
of Mulholland and Brontje.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think your genna have to do that because
it's just a sloppy mess.
MR. BONTJE: Yes, then a couple of days later handle it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we should co-ordinate with the DEC on
that. They're gonna have different conditions on how to
handle that. Did Leu talk about that at all?
MR. BONTJE: No he did not. We can agree right now as to
temporary disposal on the border of Bontje and Mulholland.
The de-watering site. We were intending to being the trucks
right now down my driveway on Bontje, turn them slightly to
the east and go around the shed on the house and bring it down
to the waterfront close to the dock where the lawn goes. What
we could do is take that area between the pole and the house and
over to the property line landward of the dock and use that area
as disposal intention, as a de-watering location. Then we'll
have to same trucks come in and won't have to go as long.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I have a problem with the dredging project as
a whole. Digging a pit in the back of a creek that is very
shallow to start with is ..... I personally do not favor any kind
of dredging like this.
MR. BONTJE: I don't own the property out from my property.
If I don't dredge I will loose my riparian access. It's that
simple. It was dredged in 1960 to create riparian access to
create water front. If I do not dredge I will loose that and
loose half the value of my property maybe more. Also Carlucci
and Baldwin were given the same consideration in having that
done and there's been no significant factors, no stagnating or
anything like that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm gonna make a motion to table this until
I see a site for de-watering and I want to co-ordinate with the
DEC.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: What I just said too was I don't think we
have a new diagram of the new dock.
MR. BONTJE: This is it, the cross section and measurements.
(indicating on map)
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm sorry to have to hold you up for another
month, but I need a de-watering site. I'll make a motion to
recess the hearing.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
MR. MORCOMBE: May I please ask that the Trustees to re-read
my letter of April. When I addressed I over heard Mr. Bontje
speak about haybales. I have a comment on haybales. They
attract rodents and they are not as satisfactory to stop runoff
on the delicate wetland area.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The haybales would only be a temporary
measure. What we're requesting. He's requested an off site
disposal area for spoil which is probably gonna be fine with
us. I don't know see any way of moving that unless he de-waters
it for a day or so.
MR. MORCOMBE: What's the difference between de-watering or
run-off?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All the material that is in suspension of the
water will not reach the wetland. It will only be just the
water that will run or percolate through his soil back into the
ground water.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It is the same water that was in the creek
and will find it's way back into the creek.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We don't want the mud running back into the
creek. And he doesn't want the mud back in the creek. So the
idea is to retain that and we'll work with the DEC because they
have quite a bit of experience.
9:50 p.m. In the matter of Susan Tarshis on behalf of STEVE
GREENBAUM requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' X 80'
pier with two elevation lifts, a 3' X 20' ramp, a 7' X 30' float
with 4 float piles and 4 mooring piles. Located: 1073 Bay Home
Road Extension, Southold. SCTM ~56-5-38
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak
either in favor or against this application? CAC recommends
approval.
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: We discussed it last month and this reflects
the revised plan.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Meaning that they still have 4'
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well it's on the Bay.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Move to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE ALBERTSON: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I'll make a motion to approve the application.
TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to go back to the regular meeting,
TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES
V. ASSESSMENTS:
1. MARTIN J. BANCROFT JR., requests a Wetland Permit to
enlarge and enhance an existing freshwater pond in width.
Located: North east corner of Narrow River Road & Platt Rd.,
Orient. SCTM ~27-2-2.3
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve for a Negative Declaration
with condition the applicant provide location of pond on survey
with sideline setback 20' & new drawing, TRUSTEE ALBERTSON
seconded. ALL AYES
2. En-Consultants Inc., on behalf of BORIS GRZIC requests a
Coastal Erosion & Permit to construct 4' wide stairs from top of
bluff down to beach. Located: 16125 Soundview Ave.,
Southold. SC~ ~50-2-19
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve for a Negative Declaration
based on an accurate survey of redefined plan, TRUSTEE WENCZEL
seconded. ALL AYES
VI. RESOL~UTIONS:
1. CHARLES RIESTERER requests a Grandfather Permit for a 4'
X 100' dock, rebuild 4 jetty's: 10' X 23', 9' X 31', 9' X 35'
and 9' X 35' and rebuild concrete ramp. Located: 1945 Calves
Neck Road, Southold. SCTM ~70-4-47
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve the Grandfather Permit based on
new plans showing a 4' X 33', a 4' X 22' and a 4' X 22 jetty
only and a brick rebuilt ramp, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL
AYES
2. Nicholas Aliano on behalf of BEACHCOMBER IMOTEL requests a
Grandfather & CoaStal Erosion permit to remove and replace in
same configuration 45 1.f. of existing damaged foundation and
place 10 c.y. of backfill, remove and replace in same
configuration on east wing of motel 30 1.f. and 80 1.f. on west
wing and fill with 10 c.y. on east and west wings. Located:
3800 Duck Pond Rd., Cutchogue. SCTM ~83-2-1
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the Grandfather Permit as
submitted on plans, TRUSTEE LABERTSON seconded. ALL AYES
VII~ MOORINGS:
1. ROBERT B~ GRATTAN requests a mooring in Goose Creek for a
t7'~outboard with a 100 1.b. mushroom, as per Bay Constables
recommendation. ACCESS: Private.
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded.
ALL AYES
TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded.
ALL AYES
2. DRAGIC~ POCINA requests a~mooring in Goose Creek for a
16' o~tboard with a 100 1.b. mushroom. ACCESS: Public
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded.
ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded.
ALL AYES
3. GARY GUJA requests a mooring in Mattituck Creek for a 21'
outboard with a 100 1.b. mushroom. ACCESS: Private (As per Bay
Constable Dzenkowski's recommendations only)
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded.
ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve as per Bay Constables
recommendations only, TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES
RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED BY:
Diane J. ~rbert
TI4-E SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK
DATE P;~. I~5 HOUR
Town Clerk, Town of Southold