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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-04/24/1996 Albert J. Krupski. President ~ Town Hail ~ohn Holzapfel, Vice President ~'~ '-- ~_~- ~1 ~ ?~ tl~:~: . 53095 Main Road Jim King ~ P.O. Box 1179 Martin H. Garrell ~ Southold, New York 11971 Peter Wenczel Telephone (516) 765-1892 Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MINUTES APRIL 24, 1996 PRESENT WERE: John Holzapfel, Vice-President Peter Wenczel, Trustee Martin Garrell, Trustee Jim King, Trustee Diane Herbert, Clerk ABSENT WAS: Albert J. Krupski Jr., President CALL MEETING TO ORDER. PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, May 15, 1996 at 12 noon TRUSTEE HOLZAPFE. L moved to approve, TRUSTEE GARRRLL seconded. ALL AYES NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Wednesday, May 22, 1996 at 7 pm WORKSESSION: 6:00 p.m. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE GAR~EI.L seconded. ALL AYES MINUTES: Approve Minutes of March 27th, 1996 at the Regula~ Meeting, and Special Meeting on March 13, 1996. TRUSTEE WENCZV. I. moved to table until he makes cowments to it, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES I. MONTHL~ RRDORT: The Trustees monthly report for March 1996: A check for $3,037.51 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General ~md. Ii, .:~ ~PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for review. I I I. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS / CHANGES: 1. Docko, Inc. on behalf of GREY GULLS PARTNERSHIP requests an Amendment to Pezmit 93966 to relocate an existing floating dock (approx. 14' X 22') and restraint piles (4) and installing a new floating dock approx~ 8' X 54' adjacent to the existing fixed wood pile and timber pier, including ramps and 9 Board of Trustees 2 April 24, 1996 float restraint piles, extend the existing 9' wide "L" shaped end dock by 6' and install two dual tie-off piles. Located: Private Road, West Harbor, Fishers Island. SCTM %7-4-5 TRUSTEE GARR~I.L moved to approve, TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES. 2. Docko Inc., on behalf of FISHERS ISLAND DISTRICT requests a Waiver to reconstruct east r~,? in the Silver Eel Cove which includes the installation of 65+ l.f. of steel sheetpile bulkhead with backfill of 70+ c.y. over 250+ s.f. and new counter' weight supports, and protective dolphins seaward of the high tide line. Located: Fishers Island. SCTM ~12-1-10 TRUSTEE WENCZEL moved to approve for a Gr'and~ather Permit rather than a Waiver, TRUSTEE GARP~LL seconded. ALL A-lES. 3. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of LOUIS M. BACON requests an Amendment to Permit ~4422 to allow for the construction of a 2' X 90' timber walkway which will span newly reconstructed dune. Located: Robins Island. SCTM %134-3-5 TRUSTEE KING moved to approve the request, TRUSTEE GARPRLL seconded. ALL AYES 4. Costello Marine Contracting on behalf of 5~UIS M. BACON requests a one year .extension tc Permit %4346 ~which allows relocation of existing dolphins and instaliatio~ of buffer piles. Located: end of First Street, New' Suffolk. SCTM %117-8-20 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES 5. Patrick Perritt on behalf of TOLLWOOD COMSgu/~I~ requests an ~Amendm~t to .Permi% '%206 to replace a 4~ X 75' catwalk, a 2'8" X t8' ramp and a dock totaling 220 s.f.' A 4' X 10'6" addition will be added landward to catwalk and entire catwalk el~v. 3'6" as per Dept. of State. Located: at end cf Illinois Ave., 375' north of Meday Ave., LILCO pole %i14A, Mattituck.~ SCT~ %113-8- TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE K~NG'second. ALL AYES 5. Paul Reinkens on behalf of -GERALD'P~i ~EIDY'requests"a waiver to. replace front cement stoop with a 6' X 12' wood deck on west side of house and install a 4' X 8' wa on west side. Located: 167 Island View Lane, %57-2-33 TRUSTEE WENCZEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES 6. LOIS .MC GOWAN requests a Waiver to construct a loose gravel driveway with a small parking area with loose gravel. Located: 13350 New Suffolk Ave., Cutchogue. SCTM %1!6-6-t9~I TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES Board of Trustees 3 April 24, 1996 7. WILLIAM & COLLEEN CONNORS request an .Amendment to Permit 4567 to add an 8' X 40' deck onto the western side of house which would require additional pilings but no additional fill. Located: 350 West Drive, Southold. SCTM ~59-3,29.3 TRUSTEE GARRELL moved to amend the Amendment for a 6' deck buttressed to house on western side and 50' in length with no pilings and no fill, TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL seconded, TRUSTEE WENCZ~.L voted Nay. 8. MICHAEL~!P. BONTJE requests an Amendments, to to change .dock extension which will be in a "J" configuration rather than an "L" configuration. The other dock will have a 20' extension south rather than 18' and a 16' return on the "J" rather than 14' to allow for the 10' vegetation setback and still reach deep water. Located: Island View Lane, Greenport. SCTM 957-2-23 TRUSTEE GARRET.L moved to go off the Regular Mccting and go onto the Ptublic hearings, TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES IV. PUBLIC'~NGS: THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARZNG IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS FOR~PERMITSUNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWlq OF SOLPI~OLD. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE SUFFOLK TIMES~ PERTINENT CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRiOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC. PLEASE KRE~ YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AN~ BRIEF: FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESS~ IF POSSIBLE 7:18 .m. In the matter of Eh-Consultants Inc., on behalf of JQ~ii equests a ~etland Permi~ to constract a 3' X 95' fixed elev. walk, (4) above grade of marsh) a 32" X 20' hinged ramp. and a 6' .~ 20' float secured by 2- 2 pile dolphins. Located: 855 Hole Pike, Mattituck. SCTM $113-9-16 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone here who wishes to speak in favor of this. application? Is there anyone who wishes to speak against this application? I'll make a motion that we close the hearing. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES TRUST~ .HOLZA~FEL: I'll make a motion that we approve the application. TRUSTEE GARRELL: second. TRUSTEE WENC~EL: Abstained. 7:21 p.m. - In the matter of Eh-Consultants Inc., on behalf of ARMONDO & JACQUELtNE ~GRASSI requests a Wetland Permit to remove 3 existing timber groins and construct 1- 40' timber groin needed to pre~ent further loss of beach~ and which will be similar in length ~o other groins to east and west. Located: 4510 Peconic Bay Blvd., Laurel. SCTM 9128-4-21 Board of Trustees 4 April 24, 1996 TRUSTEE EOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone wishing to speak for this application? Is there anyone wishing to speak against this application? MR. [T~2qRY~!~ULL1VAN: I'm a neighbor adjacent to the Grassi's there and I'm concerned that as opposed it will cost beach erosion!l on my property~ They're proposing essentially a high s~ groin whichllis pretty much unknown of how it will work ,I the project. CAC resolved to recommend to the Southold Town~ Board~ of disa_=proval to remove three existing timber~'groins ,~and construct one. New structure will be similar in construction to others to the east and west. The Counc disapproval because there .is no need shown. Is there ,an owner uresent, or anybody from Eh-Consultants? think ~we ha~ a problem simila~ to your concerns and our concern was that w~ wanted ~t to be a low profile groin similar to the ones on both sides and not be a high profile groin. We had real concernsabout that. TRUSTEE GA~RELL: And the angle too. We wanted it to the east. TRUSTF, R ~OLZAPFEL: My question to the Board is. do we just want to deny the application, or do we want to t~ble it and .... thought they woutdbe hare tonight and deal with the application. TRUSTEE~ GkR~!,L: I ~would suggest taht~ and ask the consultants to come in.~ TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I ~hink that would, be a good idea. TRUSTEE~C~RELL: ~e~ause if we disapprove the~ we have to give grounds and give alternatives. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion that we now table the application. TRUSTEE. WENC~EL: Second~ AT.~. AYES TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Then would you send a letter to them stating our concerns an~alsQ to Eh-Consultants. 7:25 p~m. - In the matter of Costetto Marine on requests a Wet,and E~o 200' of timber bulkhead and back~ill with 300 c.y. of clean fill f~om approved upland, source. Located: 635 Soundview,Ave.,, Southold. SCTM 950-2-7 TRUS,TFF~..HOLZAPFE,~: Is there anyone here who wishes tospeak in favor of the application? GEOR~,~C~STF, r,~: I'm ~representin~ Mr. Caputa. I ~have some documentation here a~d a few pictures and a letter that I don't know if you received from-Mrs. Caputa. TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL: I don't think so. MR. COSTRT,I~: She m~ght have faxed, it to you, I don"t know. TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: It's.not here in the file. MR. COSTELLO: ~ere's some pictures of Mr. Caputa's property and the next door neighbors. The east and west neighbor. From the pictures you can see the amount of erosion that has been going on in the last %en years or so. The pictures with the beach house, you can see where the concrete columns on it,. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Who's property is that? MR. COSTELLO: That is the property_ just west of Caputa. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Arc, as? Board of Trustees 5 April 24,. 1996 MR. COSTELLO: Just on the other side of Arcus. TRUSTEE H©LZAPFEL: So it's another property fro~u Caputa. MR. COSTET,LO: Yes. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So it's two over. MR. COSTELt.O. Yes. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That's why I didn't~recognize the building. MR. COSTELLO: There are some pictures of Caputa and Arcus. But if you notice the concrete colUmns, there about 5 L/2 or 6 feet above beach level that used to be a beach level~ If you look at the stairs, the stairs are short by 4 feet and the beach has dropped 4 feet in 14 years because I put that building there and supported it there for that 100 year rain. The property was owned by Sandy Hanover at the time. But you can see where the bluff has s].gd down in the last tow stol~. One in January and one in December. And that slide is approx. 20' tall. Underneath that tree that'soverhanging where the gazebo is. On Caputa's property. TRUSTEE GARP~ELL: Are there bulkheads on any of the adjacent properties? MR. COSTELLO: Adjacent, interms of 1,000. feet, no. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: No, there's nothing within about 1/2 mile, MR. COSTELLO: Around the corner there is three bulkheads.' TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was one of our concerns, just as a Board. In that none of that is b~lkheaded. And that your gonna be creating a bulkhead in the middle of a "pristine- area in the sense of unprotected. And there-was someconcern that whether that's gonna start a whole'movement on both sides and that's why we were a little hesitant, to move ahead on this application immediately. MR. COSTELLO: So you feel that that will be setting a precedent? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes. MR. COSTFI.LO: Actually the precedmnt is set by Mother Nature. Nobody on along that coast wants to spend $40 or $50,000 to protect their property if it's unnecessary. You can 'see their perilous position of that large tree. But th4s has been going on for 15 years andfina~ly he wants to stop the erosion. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: How far is ~thehouse from the .... MR. COSTWlJO: The house is back from the' edge ~of the bluff probably ~ho~t 75' back. The-main house. There~ iS. another house to the east which is close to the property line.. And that's back from the. edge of the bluff about 25 feet. ~But most of the erosion is on the east sade of the stairs. ~~ As you can see in the pictures. Because it's'facing more tothe' northeast than anything else. There's a t~ttle bit~of.~abump out there. TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: Any other comments? AL~ CONNELS,: The CAC reco~endsdisapproval. We.didn't see the description .of erosion that Mr. Costello describes. The bluff face itself is very stable. The house is in no danger. It has excellent boulders on the beach, protecting the toe o~ the bluff. There!s no real erosion. (Could not hear due to shuffling of: papers in front of the mike). As ~welI as the' fact that they want to fill behind the bulkhead which is gonna destroy the existing vegetation that's stabilizing the bluff. So, I think ~n this case constructing a bulkhead Ls' gonna Board of Trustees 6 April 24, 1996 actually do more harm t~han good. And the property is stabilized ~-~ right now. TRUSTEE GARRELL: For example we took a look at a proposal for bulkheading on Fishers Island today and it was a regional proposal. It involved several people who had gotten together and they were gonna link bulkheads across a long ...... a revetment, not a bulkhead. But the point was that there was nobody doing it in isolation and I would feel much more comfortable in if you had a bulkheading proposal that involved neighbors and involves linking bulkheads. But that proposal is just kind of sitting out there in isolation. And I'm really concerned about people on either side. MR. COST~.T.~: I~d like to make a co~uent on that. That at your next meeting you are going to have two applications. One from Mr. Arcus on the east lot and one from Mr. Arcus on the west lot. In regards to the CAC co~muents, I would request an on site inspection be taken place again. The erosion is very evident. The stairs that exist on the Caputa property basically is right in the middle. The comment was made that there's plenty of boulders down there. There's actually 7 boulders. ! counted them before I came to this meeting. On 100 feet of property. The bottom section of this bank is unstable. There is a gouge sticking out in two locations. One requiring about !50 yards of fill and the other about 50 yards of fill at this point. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I would be perfecttywilling to do that. TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: I think if your coming in with two more applications it makes sense to view the thing in entirety instead of a single... MR. COST~T.r.O: Well it couldn't be done that way. It was requested that we submit individual applications by the Boamd and the DEC. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Right we can look at it as a .... well it's individual applications if you put the three together, but it's adifferent scenario. MR. COSTELLO: All three properties have erosion. Mr. Caputa and the lot to the east, the Arcus property is probshly the worst. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I would also suggest when bulkheading propositions come along like this, and they always are controversial and then to be controversis], that it might be expedient to do those inspection with you down there and talk about it. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFRL: Is there anyone else who would like tc speak on this application? I'm gonna make a motion that we table this particular application and that we return to it next month. And we'll do another inspection and if there are other applications we'll deal with it next month. TRUSTEE KING: Second.. ALL AYES 7:33 p.m. - In the matter of J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of DR~ THOMAS J. MC DONAGH requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 10' X 60' X 2' earthen be~m which shall be fronted by a rock revetment consisting o~ 200-500 !.b. rock placed 2' below grade on filter cloth. Berm shall then be planted with Rosa Rugosa Board of Trustees 7 April 24, 1996 18" on center and a 3' X 40' catwalk, (elev. 3 1/2' over grade of marsh) a 3' X 12~ ramp and a 6' X 20' float. (NOTE: Applicant wishes to amend this to read 30' catwalk). Located: Cedar Beach Drive West, Southold. SCTM ~90-1-6 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone here who wishes to speak in favor of this application? GLENN JUST: We did cut back that fixed catwalk after I' spoke with Peter Wenczet so we don't go 10' further than mean high water. TRUSTEE HOLZkPFEL: Our concern going out there on field inspection is it was not clear still where this berm was going to be. It was not marked ver~ clearly. MR. JUST: We originally marked it two years ago when the application came in. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I understand and that's why we wen~ back out because we had asked you to move those, markings back. TRUSTRR WENCZEL: I looked at it this afternoon and I hate to disagree with what John said, but it was clear to me where your gonna put the berm there's patents growing there. MR. JUST: This is the first question that arose to you when we originally did this. He's been mowing patents since the~house has been bought. You could see where there's a little salt place down there behind the alterna flora. He was toild to move the revetment back 6 feet landward of the patent line and put the revetment in there. This way you get your 10' buffer that's requir~ in the Town Law between wetlands and any lawn and have the bezm in there and that place will not be mowed any more. There will be no fertilization, no mowing, no nothing in that area. Everything is moved back a min. of 6' landward of the patent line. TRUSTEE WENCZRL: The only thing ! was able to find to locate where this berm was was that concrete marker on the northern corner there and as you see the landward edge of the be~m end~ right there. As far as on the southern side I could really tell I just eyeballed it up and said yes, it looks like its gonna go there but it was .... we talked about these numbers on here .... a 3' X 6' a 4' X 9' ...... what are theyagain? MR. JUST: Those are spot elevations. Albert, had asked at one point ..... TRUSTEE W~CZRL: Spot elevations, OK. MR. JUST: Albert had asked one time tP~%t we get the elevations located between the juniper trees and the marshes. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I don't know what the Board feels about this but I think if you put the be~m.. ~.I don't k~ow why they want a berm ...... but if you put the be~m behind the landward edge wouldn't have any p~oblem with it. MR. JUST: That was the whole idea why we moved it back .... TRUSTEE WF~NCZEL: I mean moved it back again though. ~Because .... maybe we need to look at it when it's staked out. MR. JUST: The survey that you have in front of you shows that he moved back landward of that tidal wetlands i line. By the wetlands line is the dotted line. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I don't know, I think there's patents where the berm is but without you staking it I guess we could ..... Board of Trustees 8 April 24, 1996 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That was the question, we, and very honestly ~-~ wanted the berm back much further. And it's not clear where it is. If it's this, we have a problem with that. Again, I'm speaking... MR. JUST: What's the problem? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's too close to the patent line. Well, you have to understand, any activity within 75' that's part of our control. Our concern was, first of all, ~it's not gonna function as a berm because the lowland is behind it on the property on the southand the water will ~ right behind it. MR. JUST: You can't control that. That's not the applicants property. TRUS~R HOLZAPFEL: No, no, if he brought his berm up along the line. MR. JUST. That was our original intention. Remember it had been horseshoe shaped. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Right. MR. JUST: Then we were told no just fill it. Once you fill it up into the area of the junipers and that's what you see in front of you. TRUSTEE WENCZ~L: No, you have to stake it. MR. JUST: Again? TRUSTEE GARRELL: We'll come out there. MR. JUST: I've been out there with the Board twice. The record shows that. It's only a matter of taking a tape measurer and you see the concrete monument there and stealing off the survey. If you want me to be able to do that. for you I'll be more than~happy to. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I told you I measured it and I looked at it and I saw the monument and I think it's too close to the wetlands. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think that's the feeling of the Board that when we went out there it wasn't clean that the survey is not what we're interested in seeing there. We also asked you to move it back I ~believe. MR. JUST: I did.. The object of the. berm is two fold. The rack line goes up behind ~those juniper trees in a good storm. You have photoqraphs of that. Any time the water goes up there it's also washing dog droppings, fertilizers, anything on that ]awn back into the wetlands. That's what we're trying to prevent. And trying 1to prevent further loss of property and further erosion of property. That's the reason for the berm. We're not comiSg in for a bulkhead, a hard structure .... TRUSTEE WENCZEL: is there erosion there? MR. JUST: Somewhat. If you teok at the old surveys. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: It wasn't apparent being down there. That's why I asked. MR. JUST: Flooding is obvious, right? TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I ~think the lawn's in the wetlands. I think that's why there's flooding there. I think that's the problem. MR. JUST: Look at the survey it shows ....... -~ TRUSTEE WENCZEL: We all know the water comes up in a big '~ storm. You can't hide from it. MR. JUST: You can stop it from going too far up. Board of Trustees 9 April 24, 1996 TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Not with that. It's just gonna go around it. MR. i JUST~ Again, we can't control what's on the adjacent property. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think it would be...just a suggestion for everyone's benefit to meet with you out there next month. I think that would solve everyone's problem much e~ier. CAC wanted back. ALL~N It's been so long since we've been out there, but we did say to move it back way back when we first looked at it. .We were~concerned about the location of the bezm also. And at that time we reco,~ended that it be moved landward. When I went out and looked at that back in Sept. of 1995 we were concerned about (could not hear, shuffling of papers). It sounds1 to me like it's a floodgug problem. And the way that this berm is configured it's not gonna work to protect the property. So why construct a bezm that's not gonna work. It needs to be proven that that water is not gonna get around the outside end of the berm. If that's the case then it can protect the ~property~ and so be it and. should be in, but it's not gonna function that. way. We should not be constructing sometb~lng so close to the wetlands that it's gonna do damage. MR. How can it do damage tothe wetlands? MR. It has .... because it is so close to the spartina patents ..... MR. JUST: How can it possibly do damage ..... MR. CONNFT.L: EXcuse me I have the podium and you can speak next. We don't think there's any need for a cap rock on the berm. we don"t see any need for that. That's just putting 'a hard structure on the face of the berm. So we would, recommend tha~ thatnot be allowed. MR.: JUST: ~s far as the rock is concerned, that's the requirement of' the wisdom of the DEC. I don't necessarily agree with th~m ei~t~er, but that the wisdom of the people living in the~ivory tower. TRUSTEE'HOLZAPFEL: Is ~hat true in creeks too, Glen~? MR. JUST: They feellthat there is a high energy problem there and the'rock will re~iect and break up the wave energy. But what problems are gonna be caused? MR.!CONNELL: 'Disturbance oE the wetland area. (Mr. Connett and Glezn/ Just proceeded to talk at once in an apparent argument). TRUSTEE HOLZA~EEL: Any Other co~ents? TRUSTEE GARRELL: Move. to' table.. TRUSTRR HOLZA~RT.: Second. ALL AY~.M 7:55 'p.m. - In the matter of Bruce AndersOn on behalf of HAROL~ HEP ~ENSTEIL requests a Wetland Pezmit to construct a 4" X 88~' raised"catwalk, a 4' X 14' ramp and a 6' X 20' floating dock as per Doctor's recommendation. Located: !055 Bungalow Lane, Mattituck. SCTM ~123-3-14 TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in favor of the application? BRUCE ANDERSON: I've just given the Board, I think, a pretty comprehensive overview of the project. I have delivered into a Board of Trustees 10 April 24, 1996 record a letter drafted to Albert Krupski the President, dated 4/24/96 with numerous e~h~bits, i've also entered into the record an aerial photograph. This we will call exhibit A. Our objective is solely to reach navigable waters. ~The survey submitted with the application, the aerial submitted tonight indicates that the proposed dock will only extend into navigable waters and won't have an impact to navigation into and out of and through Deep Hole Creek. I would like to hear whatever the Public has to say or whatever this Boar~ has to sa~. And would appreciate the opportunity to respond to any comments that may come up im this proceeding. TRUSTEE HOLZAPB~.L: Is there anyone else who wishes to respond to this application? ALLAN CONN~3.r,: The CAC didn't have a problem with the dock but we were concerned with the length of the dock. The fact that it was reaching out so far and we rec~,ended that the length not exceed the neighbor tc the north.. That dock didn't reach out as far as this one. TRUSTEE HOLZAPHEL: You might want to take a look at the picture. Bruce was here at our Work Session much earlier and gave us a run down on some of the info~mation. The white line is the edge of the channel. And the white added line is the dock that they're proposing and it give a prospective~ of the length.. So it's a little bit different from what ...... PAT MOORE: Excuse me, because there are several people here who would like to see this diagram, if you could take a five minute recess so we don't interfere with the meeting. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion we take a 4 minute recess. TRUSTEE GARRE. T.L: Second. ALL AYES BRUCE ANDERSON: The information you have in front of you is a survey. On that survey there are soundings. There is an estimate or an exact measurement of how far the dock will extend from the low tide mark. That distance is 44'. We have taken that dock. We purchased an aerial photograph that was taken in 1994 which shows the channel. We were able to very accurately locate this dock because the high water mark as shown the survey corresponds with the base of the bulkhead to the property adjacent to and north of this property. So we know where the high water mark is, we know the distance of the dock that the dock extends from the high water mark, we have an aerial photograph to scale so we are able. to plot exactly where kh~t docks goes. It goes here, it goes out to navigable, waters, it is not, to my clients interest at all to build th~ dock any longer that it has to be. TRUSTEE WENCZRT,: Could I ask one question. What were the weather conditions'.when you took that soundings. MR. ANDERSON: Clear, caqm. I don't actually recall. Clear, calm, maybe breezy. I'm telling you that was Iow tide. at that point. If your now gonna argue that it is extreme low tide or what ever I will save you that. Possibly' that low tide co~]d vary under weather conditions. But even taking that into account you still can't overcome, the truth that comes out on the survey. On this aerial photograph. Namely the size of the dock Board of Trustees 1i April 24, 1996 in relationship to the high water mark and this is where the dock terminates. TRUSTEE'~'HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of this application? Is there anybody' who would like to speak a~ainsttb-is ~pplicatio~? MR. JO~ KEI~H~Y:i I'm 28 years on that creek now and I realize that I'm not much of a Southolder but I'm onl She opposite side. T~at gentlema~ just told us that he is goingi!to have 36" of water at low tide where his float is gonna be. He's gonna be halfway down the channel then. I have children and Grandchildren who stand in the area where he thinks h~'s gonna have 36"i' of water. You don't have a foot of water. We all on that creek have outboard motors because~ at low tide the boats sit on the bottom. He was there on a lucky day when he took those soundings. That's not the average soundings. clm~m~ers come and stand on ~he banks of the channel and ictam in the charn~el. He's mistaken as to what the figuration of the bottom, is. Where he.draws his white line to bring his dock out to the channel, he's coming out considerably further than~ ~he property to the no~th of him and he's taking up what the ~rsal use of that creek.is that everybody is using it for sail fishing and ro~ boating and ~sW~m~ng. His dock is coming out 100' more. Which is 'ridiculous. But we said now we could sail sailfish in that Wide open part of the creek and we could watch the kids and when they ifall over we could run out and pick t~em up. That's & shallow spot. He's gonna have no water under his boat untess his boat is sitting in the channel. I oppose thisl because~ there~is~t that much water. You don't get 36" of water at low tide out of the channel. MR. ~N: I agree ~.with this gentleman 100%. And this man is telling me two years ago that channel is 125' wide at it~at point on that point~ The tide we had a couple of weeks ago, could almost the channel right at'tha~ poi~ wh~re he tells me have 3' of water at tow tide. The man should with his waders, on agai~ and I want to stand watch ~ when he walks out there. I oppose it I'm an Attorney. I know your well aware"of the law I've often sat on the oth~ side where~ Mr. Anderson sits and ~had to bring cases to 'court. In~ this case there is an ~appropriate place for a long dock and an inappropriate place. This creek is not the appropriate' place for an~ extended dock.. The relevant docks along that creek are the ones that you..permitted since your jurisdiction started.~ And I believe that was~ 19V1. Anyway whe~ you go and~Iook at the history of the permits that have been granted ~by this Board, they generall~ do not exceed 50' to 80' in length. And that's a total length., Many. of these docks start inland, on ~he upward land and extend into the creek. But the extension into the creek is apparently about 30' or 40' 50 in some cases. Probably the longest one is the one that is to~ the east~ The one'that's been mentionedover and over again. The Demig property.~ To the north. The Demig property which you permitted 82' That is the longest dock that is that area. Certainly to get that Board of Trustees 12 April 24, 1996 length o2 ~he dock is s~bstantial but certainly acceptable versus what has been requested, .which is 122'. It's a shame that Mr. Hepensteil, that the contact with your neighbors is this way. I know that Mrs. Stanton, who I represent, certainly as a neighbor, doesn't oppose you personally but this dock and the proposed application is just not acceptable. Thank you. LES FzAG~'~ I li~e directly opposite (tape malfunctioned at this point. Could not hear Mr. Hage~man or Janet Stanton's testimony). MRS. STANTON: He said to me, "Oh it's not the Verranzano Bridge". So for the first time that I realized that's what it looked like to me from looking at the blueprints. Now, I'm not used to reading blueprints so I had someone help me. 'But it did look like the Verranzano Bridge to me. I know it's a purely emotional appeal. It's purely emotions] on my part and eye,one does ,have a vested inter, est in living on this creek. Mine might not be exactly like the others, even though I see a navigation issue. That is why I had put the information I received from the Board in the doors of people who lived on the creek. Because I personally felt that people had large craft or had boats they would need to be concerned of their navigation. I don't have a dock yet nor do I have a craft yet so and I would be going in the opposite direction out to the sound so I don't have that issue. But people north of me I felt did so as I stated earlier I don't have any animosity towards our new neighbors. In fact Rosemar~ and I might get along fine. But it is an emotional issue and it is something that I feel very very strongly about. It would totally disturb the nature setting of Deep Hole Creek. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone else against? Bruce, would you like to speak? MR. ANDERSON: Yes, I would like to respond to all 'the coamtents made.~ The first one regarding Mr. Kennelly :,and :Mr. Whelan. Mr. Kennelly made some points and he ques,t~oned the depth of the creek, the width o~' the channel and I guess what he implied is we ~have an impact to navigation. What t have suba~itted t~ this Board so far is the survey showing the meets ~d bottnd~ of the property, shows the high water mark, shows the !ow water mark, shows the,. distance that the dock will extend from both points. I also submitted to this Board which I will call exhibit A, which is an aerial photograph taken~at~a scale o~ i." = 200' ,which identifies the location of the cb~nneL~which· was also poss;ible to exactly locate the size of the dock in relationship to ~he creek and channel due to -the existence-,: of ,points of reference, particularly incD~d~ng the bulkhead on the adjoining property to the north which represents the highwater mark. You may refer to the survey and you will see the high water ,mark corresponds to the bulkhead face. I don't know what more I can say and the question of what's appropriate speaks to the question of what!s is reasonable safe and convenient access, which I believe I ga~e this Board sufficient information so that you can conclude that that is an absolute right of my applicant. I also want ~o point out that I have shown pictures of the dock to the north and have been told that this is much Board of Trustees 13 April 24, 1996 larger than or much smaller than what we'r~e proposing. Those pictures represent only a catwalk without showing ramps, floating docks or anything of the kind. Both docks fully in place~are shown in the aerial photographs and what1 you can see from that they are substantially similar¥ Next~ I ' ve ~ heard comments from .Patricia Moore who represents. Janet~ Stanton who speaks to the lopprobriousness of a dock in location and to that I .can say agai~ the applicant has right ,to whar~lout into navigable waters in have in front of you. I also want to correct in this that She made that there is ~a his~to~!r of docks in and that,, none,-of them exceed more~than 50 to 80'. I in-~writing a documentation indicating that this dock, ~ ~ stand ~or anywhere as large as 160' or almost twice as la~ge as what ~we are proposing. I've also~ submitted to your consideration a survey tak~ ~.from your f~les to the ito two proP~ties, three p~perties to the north and Ghat survey shows that the dock you ~pprovedi is not only larger and longer than what we are here exten~s further out i~to the creek we are So the co~.enu that the docks are such 50' to ~0' zs ctearl~ ~alse. And finally th~ co~£m]ent ~the Demig ~ represents the longest dock is also ~ ~fa~se. There are docks much longer than the ,,' dock ~ on the ~ Demig property. Mr.~ Ha~erman submitted a comment ~ s~ch tkat ~his concern has tc do with compatibility and his concern is stern of the boat will be in navigable waters~ ,~What the photo' shows is, 'Ur~ortunatety is that the dock wili?~ exten~ up~ to the bank where, the channel starts. The, boat intends' .to dock at this facility is 25' Which also at the aerial photograph o~ the docks and the boats therein is nothing unusual or out of character to boats, ~n Deep Hole' C~ek. In other words there ~re boats of or even greater i there. To speak to the comment, raise~ by Kennelly which ,t regarded as constructed, she said as al ma~ter of your dock is shorter, it won!t cost as much. that if the maintenance cost could be~ as:' less. I wou~ld ~add construction cost would be .tess. And- ~his is ' why we made the dock as short up to the We do not block a channel, it is, not in 'our build any longer than it has to be. And. ~inally to' the c~m~entS made by Janet ~Stanton. The first of' which is ~that the creek is characterized as pristine, unmarked beach~With no large craft. The aerial, photograph entered , into the records as' exhibit A speaks for itself. There are numerous other dockS. ~Sixty-six~ As of that date. And now even more than that. There are numerous other boats. There is b~]kheaded property. And T am not saying that the creek is ugly but what I am saying that nothing that is proposed here is out of character with what already exists in the creek and the .aerial photo shows there. Secondly 'to be concerned of an obstruction of' view. What we have done, and I'd like to state for the record that the obstruction of view is not a criterion that this Board can Board of Trustees 14 April 24, 1996 entertain in permitting a dock. We operate solely under the Town's Wetland Statute, we're talking about a Type II Action here that will have no significant impact on the environment. And I'd like to point out that as in consideration of ather people living in the creek and as shown on .the cross section of the diagram submitted with this application, you will see that we made every attempt to lower the dock at a point where it crosses the seaward ~edge. of the vegetated tidal wetlands. That was done in part to~ reduce vis~l impact. Finally the comment that it would tooki:like the Verranzano Bridge, all I can say is it is a standard dock design, no different than any other standard design that this Board routinely permits.. I'd just like to conclude I understand the coau, ents made by Mrs. Stanton, that she printed ~a flyer, went door to door stuffing them into people's mai]box. I would like to see a copy of that mailing because what may have happened here is the mailing may have misled people who read it. It may not have accurately reflected what is actually~ proposed here. I would like to see that mailing and~ I ' d like to respond to it. MRS. ~STANTON: This is what I gave to neighbors on Deep Hole Creek. A !What was sent to me exactly. MR. ~You are representing that a copy of the survey and a copy of the cross section of the diagram absent of any no~es or an!rthi~g .el he ~'~was, placed in mailboxes. MRS. STANTON: I. photostated exactly as I made from mF?own copy. MR. ANDERSON: SO~'!~our representation is as yom ~bmitted is a letter, a survey:, ~a ~cross section, and nothing else. ~-~ MR. STANTON: 'And ~o '.my neighbors that ~did not receive this, because ~when I called' the Town I said to her, who should receive this? She said to people on all four sides. So I drove around to the .other side of the creek and knocked on Mr f, Hagemen's door and s~d did ¥o~ ~get this? And he said no. Then I knocked on FiT. Kennetly~s door who is opposite my .kouse and I ~said, did you get this? And he said no. Then I went directly to Mrs.. Nashes's who is directly in the middle ~and asked did you get ithis? And she said no. All three houses, falce our property, t said t will photostat everything I got from the Town and give it to ~yo~. And I went back the next day which was Sunday and~t handed~to them personally. And on the side. of the envelope ..... I said:ihere is everything I got ..... and those a~e the only three~ people that ~received a persona~ enclosure I had met them personally.~ The ten other :mail boxes are people who I have never met so on the envelope it said, Lt is important if you live on Deep Hole Creek. I have a copy of that .envelope and the three inserts. There - is no personal letter inside there. I met the people personally and chatted with them so they received a note from myself. MR. ANDERSON: Then i~ this letter a cohclusion is drawn that the dock is too long due to the extended length into the channel. That is. precisely what I am. trying to convince this Board with objective evidence that it doesn't extend into the channel. I suspect that a letter if I had gotten a letter that says, here is a dock that extends into the channel, I too would have concerns. Board of Trustees 15 April 24, 1996 ~S.~.~$TANTQN: Objection, that is not that comment. I was told MR. ~DERSON: Who., told you that? MRS. "STANTON: ~he people that live across from me on the channel. MR. ANDERSON: O:.Ki. But if they didn't receive notice andhad no knowledge of the application how could they have told you that.the:dock extended:out into the creek? MRS. STANTON: YoU weren't listening, i said I spcke to them on Saturday. MR..~F/ISON: ~ want to hand something into the reco~d. I want tO Ciose bY speaking to the notice issue. On s,,hmittinq this application and. getting word back from your clerks.which I appreciate, I was told to notice the two adjacent land owners on either side of the property, by certified mail, which is something I did andsubmitted the documentation to the Board and I would point o~t.. that the folks across the creek are not adjacent neighbors. MRS,: STANTON: Just let me give you myorigina] beca,~e that did not come out MR. ANDERSON: thing, I request you close the hearing. on an extreme :at an expense of the rest of uS.' A dock thati:is, that many us feel not characteristic of the creek and by shear numbers and length I think that is. rather obi( , to prove that it is establishing a precedent of a long. I~ ask the Board to strike a balancel between and ours through a compromising of sca~eing this MR. to be a. use of the word! navigable only in low;'tide. A great-deal of that creeki is used during regUlar tides, when you can sail fish, catfish, sunfish and~ row boats and~ use the creek other tha~that~dead~ilow tide. The'!~ navigable part "of. the creek, as far .as extendsright average tides where the up off the sits on the bottom at low .tide. If he .~hinks he's' got three feet. of water he doesn't., A~d:.when you get ~f way up then you can :get out and s~ fish. ! thought there .was gonna be a question of: how ~ach water is .'gorn~a. :be in that creek at low 'tide. We all now the ~Dr. the bottom. That's a fact of the creek. So your an environmentalist. (indicating Mr. Anderson) Then you should be protecting the environment, right? But your main concern is to get this man his permit. Here's what I want'to ask the Board. Every house, from this house that he's trying to get the per'mit for, coming south to a bulkhead which is just next to Arnones' property. Would you allow all these house, either 7 or 8, I don't know exactly, to get to navigable water, which is what he wants to do, there will be 250 Board of Trustees 16 April 24, 1996 to 300 feet long. Are you gonna allow that? If you allow him to do it, why can't the next neighbor, and the next neighbor, and the first thing you know, we're gonna have 10 walkways going out 250 feet to get to exactly where he wantsl The channel is only 50 feet wide. He says 125 feet. It was 30 years ago when they dredged it. Then it was 50 feet wide. BUt right now it's dead .... he should have been there 2 weeks ago when. we had that low tide. - I could walk from my house over to Mr. Kennelly's~ house. Maybe just jump and I'd go over the channel. So now, would you, I'm asking the Town Board now, not this gentleman, would you allow me or any other people ~ere 300 feet going out there? MR. ANDERSON: I would stilllike my right to respond to what's been said. To the commode/Its of Bill Stanton, are you related to Janet? MR. STANTON: Yes. She is my wife. MR. ANDERSON: First question you raised here is why arewe here if the applicant has an absolute right to access navigable waters and there is a very simple reason and that because it is this Boards' duty to make sure that a dock does not extend out such that it blocks the channel. This dock does not do that. And that is the purpose of this regutation~ The question of what about our rights. The three cases I have submitted to you speaks to that very issue. So I suggest thak we take.a careful at what the rights of a riparian owners are. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Bruce, didn't you do th~sbefore? Isn't tb~t.s already entered the record already? Don't I have that in front of me here? MR. ANDERSON~ Please let me continue. The creek, i've been told, is more shallow t_ban what we represented. Well, that's all fine-and 'good, but if the creek is more shallow that would lend more credence to a longer dock than what we are propcsi~q. We have re~uced the .length of that dock and if the soundings · that .we show1 show deeper water than what is actually there than that is our problem and we're willing to take that risk. Mr. Kennelly speaks to navigability referring only to low tide, what about high tide? The reason why navigation andelevations are ail referenced to low tide is because it relates back to the 1929 National Geodesic Survey which establishes all the elevations for the north eastern portion of the Un,ted States aC low '!tide. So low tide is our bench marsh and that is where navigability is dete~d_ue~. And finally the question, directexi to this Board .that every house would then have "the ability'.tO extend 200 or 30~0 feet out into the channel-.is not au accurate question. Because if you were to extend~thatdi-'stance you would go across the entire channel thereby blocking navigability and it would be this Board's responsibility to make sure that200-or 30~ foot docks across the channel are denied. Thank you. MR.i WHELAN: I'd just like to ask this gentleman, in other words are you maintaining that the only area that shouldn't be. docked over is the channel, and everyone have the. natural right to dock over? Board of Trustees 17 April 24, 1996 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Tl~ere' s no reason that's not gomna help us, form or matter. What I would like to do is ask s contingents. 't think we should :low the to be any nger acent docks. I the right is obviously t~.i size of the have a 50' or 5' of you, in~ my' to that much of a more would guarantee right waters. It' I'm not sure it's the policy, if water with a reasonable size dock then be moored with a and then you ~. with another bo~t, at, or a dinghy. guar~ ) navigable water. ?i But you~ just might have to or the your in~ TRUSTEE GARP~.7.T.: for the Counselo~ and I ~'t make~ i~ but I'll say that to~!size is as Peter the size of~ the quibble with ly of water do it with s it always a ~ e creaks for actual t~g is :ion '; the proof. I see than just a pict'dm dock by acent docks see in area ~ awars ~1 Consultant for the Board is in cases go 'with~ or more modest. j c the onset as though.. 2.~ seems like overkill in initial hearing. I hope this isn't of the opening of a long legal strugglei I hope and your nei~o~rs client can compromise here and come up with some~thing. . the creek. TRUSTEE KING~ When I went and~ looked at it. ~e size was ( I would like to · '~m gonna' make a number of ~ this case and the cases that you obviously presen~ed~ to uS. ! am sure that our Town Attorney can find. three cases on the opposite side in the same way. And there's~no doubt i~ my mind that there's an e_qual legal side to a person not having a right to navigable water. I am not willing to accept these .documents at this moment and say "that's the law". Secondly I would like to see~ depths. Other than your own depths taken. The Trustees will take their own depths on the dock and do that. MR. ANDERSON: Question. How are you proposing to take those measurements? Board of Trustees 18 April 24, 1996- TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I think with a tape measurer, a small boat, and ..... ~_~ TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We've taken soundings in the way that we've taken soundings on a number of different projects. It depends on a particular situation. If you can walk out and do it, fine.. If you need a boat to do it ...... it all depends on the situation. So am I gonna say that we're gonna do it this way, no, I'm not gonna do that.. We will take the soundings and we'll ge~ measurements so that we can make a decision. MR. ANDERSON:. Would you please provide me with a methodology on how rthe soundings were taken. TRUSTEE~HOLZAPFEL: ~. O~ course. TRUSTW~R WENCZEL: we';lldocument it. MR. ANDERSON: May I also suggest that perhaps you hire a surveyor to take the soundings so that that becomes .... TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL:. If you'd like to you could do that. MR. ANDERSON: No, no, we weren't paid for that. Perhaps, you should do that. TRUSTEE~HOt..zAP~FEL: ~What I'm going to suggest .... TRUSTEE WENCZEL:.,:~Bruce, just let me. ask one question.. Your completely ~u~willi~ tO compromise on this? Just so we know what we're ~go4ng here. MR. .t ~ not willing (changed itape~ to any significant :degree~. we':re talking about a CoUPle of feet.. A few ~eet, I. ~think, we could., work something .out.~ If we~'re talking about 30 feet or Something in that or~er, I'm afraid we have..~o stand our.g~.ound. TRUSTEE WENCZEL:~ ~hat~s a f~ew feet? A few to' me is 2 or 3 feet. MR. ANDERSON: say, perhaps this is the forum to do horse trading, You should reserve this for another time. TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL:ii ~I.'m gonna,make a motion that we t~bl~ this with'i~he idea tha~ we will collect further iD-~drmation. It will be still an open hearing so that this will continue next month. We will collect our information and we'll deal with it next month. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: SeCond. ALL AYES 8 In the matter of Cheryl Crane on behalf of .iSOUTHOLD~ requests a dredge app~0x'2 700 c.y. of Town Creek silt .to at Mean Low Water, re-dredge cba~nel to provide access to Southold Bay ahd~ mak~ south side ~ seaWall USahte for resident moorings. Located: south end of Yo.u~gs Ave., before entrance to Calves Neck Rd., Southotd. SCTM$~4Li-10.1 TRUSTRR HOLZA~FEL: I~m told this will be t~hled until applicant prodUcgs more information. TRUSTEE WENCZF. L: Second. ALL AYES 8:38 p.m. - In the matter of John Geideman on behalf of JOHN MANNING requests a Wetlknd' permit to replace 2 existing 110' long damaged groins. Located: 1370 Jackson Street, New Suffolk. SCTM %117-10-10 Board of Trustees 19 April 24, 1996 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'm going to put both this application and the next application together. They're adjacent properties owned by brothers and its the same identical projects. Is there anyone here to speak in favor of these applications? JOHN ~TUTTL~: Just the fact that they are replacing what has been there for years or so and there's about 20 groins in the vicinity of this. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Larry, let me say this to save time. real problem in this is, when we went out it's. not clear that there are 4 groins and on the survey it shows 4. MR. TUTTLE: There are groins. If you look closely at the survey you'll find there are 3 or 4 that hame been buried ~hout 30 or 40 years underneath the sand. So if you're referring to those .... so you can be confused by what's on the survey. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Are you the contractor? MR. TUTTLE: I don't know ..... I'm just speaking in favor, that'lS all. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: O.K. MR. TUTTLE: The point is, you can be very con_~used. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFE, L: The survey is supposed To show what's there now. It's supposed to be a recent survey, and it doesn't reflect what's there. MR. TUTTLE: Your asking what the sum-~ey reflects, I don't know, but it reflected what was there many, many years ago. And they are buried underneath that whole beach about 4 or 5 under the sand. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's just that it doesn't reflect the true situation and. we didn't know how to deal with that. Is there anybody who would like to speak about this application? Again, I will leave this up to the Board. It's not what we wanted and we told him to provide the survey. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Are we going for 6 tables in a row'? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It has to be. He doesn't have the stairs on it or the right groins, i'm gonna m~ke a motion that we t~ble this until we get the proper information. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Second. ALL AYES (The other app]~cation is for JAMES M_a/qNING who requests a Wetland Permit to replace 2 existing ll0' long damaged groins, Located: 1370 Jackson Street, New Suffolk. SCTM 9t17-10-11) 8:40 p.m. In the matter of 1ARNO~L~, NEUEt~- requests a Wetman Pe~rmit ~to clear property of debris and leave in natural state. Located: 2475 Mill Path, Southold. SCTM ~56-1-6 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Again i will put both. o~ these applications together. Is there anybody who wishes to speak .... MR. ANDREW AURICHIO: He thinks he has rights and all other stuff. He's not even here. I have a lot of concerns. Are you aware? TRUSTEES HOLZAPFEL: Yes. MR. AURICHIO: We were here a month ago. I got this in the mail, a petition to property owners. But he doesn't really state what he wants to do. He already did something as your well aware of. Without my pe~Lission. It's within wetlands jurisdiction. I mean, i don't know what he wants from me. And Board of Trustees 20 April 24, 1996 he' s not even here. He did stop on my property. I have concerns. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well the hearing is open so why don't you state your concerns now and get it on the record. MR. AURICHIO: I'd like to adjourn until such time that he is here and maybe he needs a lawyer. But basically my concerns are that the fact that it's my property and he's got a right of way over it allowing anybody else who owns property north of the parcel that he obviously cleared without per,mission and it's within the wetlands jurisdiction and I assume t need all kinds of permits to do anything over there. I don't approve of what he did and I'm not gonna give him pez~,ission to do any more. As a matter of fact I wish he would return it to the way it was. I'm concerned with the wetlands. It's right on the wetlands, it's too close. I won't allow him to do what he wants to do. I'm not even sure what he wants to do. Because he already did something, with bull dozers. He probably upset the whole ecology of the area. And I don't want to subject myself to any kind of liability, and i don't want to hire any lawyers, and I don't want to fill out any impact statements or what ever I'm gonna have to do at my expense. He thinks he's got the right to do certain things and I don't think he has the right. As a matter of fact, I know he doesn't have the right. He only has the right of way over the road. And that is in all kinds of deeds, it's in my deed. He went in there with bull dozers and excavated the whole area and knocked down trees and did damage to my property. I'm at the point where I might sue him for damages. That's where I'm coming from. I don't know where is. But that's my position. As it stands right now he .... in this notice it says, "you are hereby given notice that it is the intention of the undersigned to request that permit from the Board of Trustees to clear roads that have been overgrown with fallen trees and brushes in the last few years. That is an over simplification of what he wants to do or what he did. It doesn't mention that he already did this. Without permission. I object to anything that he wants to do or already did. I think he has to replace it. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Our Town Attorney reviewed the deed and here co,~,~,ent was exactly the same. It is a civil matter between you and he. That's the way that has to be settle in terms o~ that. She made that reco~,,,endation and that it becomes a civil matter between you and he in determining who could do what. But he did do activities within the wetlands and that"s our problem. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Where do we stand as far as Mr. Neuer applying for a permit to do work on Mr. Aurichio's property? Ca~ he do that? CLERK: According to Laurie, the road to the other piece of property states he can maintain it. That's how she read it. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Yes, but he can apply for a permit to do work on Mr. Aurichio? CLERK: But he has to ask Mr. Aurichio ~irst. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Right. That's my impression. TRUSTEE GARR~J.: Mr. Aurichio can sue him. Board of Trustees 21 April 24, 1996 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Peter has a bigger question which I don' think has been answered, is that does he even have the right to apply for a permit? TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I don't think he does, at least not without Mr. Aurichios' approval. MR. AURICHIO: Not only my approval, but the CAC and the DEC. TRUSTEE HO~ZAPFEL: No, we're talking ~hout a separate piece of property. We're not talking a~out what he did or didn't do, we're talking about is does he even have the right to apply for a permit. This is an unbelievable night. TRUSTEE WF~NCZEL: We're not sure of the legal aspect of this. Mr. Aurichio we will confer with the Town Attorney on that question. I would suggest that as a citizen that maybe you should confer with your attorney on that question. I hate to tell anybody to go see an attorney but .... MR. AURICHIO: Just for the record I'm not granting any permission and I maintain that he doesn't have the right to do what he thinks he has. What he stated here is he cleared roads but he already did it. He did major excavation work in a wetland area and disturbed my property, damaged my property, damaged wetlands. He doesn't have the right to do it and calling that a right of way. And the thing that he submitted to you guys was an excerpt out of his deed, not mine. So he took it out of context and is trying to make a case out of it. It's ridiculous also. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well. you could give him the right .... I'm assuming. You could give him permission to apply for a permit to do that .work. i would assume. MR. AURICH~O: Well you know what I suggested to Mr. Neuer that he buy .the piece of property and he could do whatever he "blank, bl~nk~'; wishes to do. But he didn't want to do thau. And that's where it stands. As it stands right now, he's subject to a~law suit to replace the damages. To compensate for mutua or maybe a potential law suit from the CAC and the DEC romyou guys. TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL: You can be fined. So what do~we do with this application then? TRUSTEE GARP~r.L:~" Let me try to sua~,arize for the record. Where is Neuer in respect to violations ~nd being .... TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well he got a notice of violation. BUt he can't Straighten out Without Mr. Aurichio. SO it's almost like we have to allow them to work out their civil matter before we could go ahead with this. Doesn't it seem?I At any rate, we need to talk with Laurie. TRUSTEE GARRELL: At any rate we need to have~ an attorney on call here tonight. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I think we really have to table this one. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I think we need to table it but I think we need to try uo limit the inconvenience to Mr. Aurichio too. If we don't have anything constructive to report before the next meeting I think Mr. Aurichio should be notified so he doesn't have to sit through this circ~!~ again. Maybe we could schedule some sort of meeting before that and discuss with Mr. Aurichio Board of Trustees 22 .April 24, 1996 and Mr. Neuer if he's so willing to be there and what the Town Attorney feels. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I would go so far as to say if you can't bring Mr. Neuer or if he refuses to make contact with us or Mr. Aurichio that we maybe have to consult with Mr. Aurichio and the Town Attorney and ourselves and try to work something out. TRUSTEE HOT. ZAPFF. T.: There was damage done and that has to be answered. MR. ~CONNELL~: The damage ~b~t has been done I don't know if it appropriate or he can do this, but Mr. Neuer should be made to go hack in there and take care of the damage that has been done. He's really upset that area where it's threatening the wetlands and something should be done to stabilize that area in the mean time. I don't know if you can do .that without putting the burden on Mr. Aurichio. I don't want to see that happen either but it sounds like he tress passedt and it should be a legal thing where he's made to go back and straighten it out. TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: Is natural resources willing to develop a plan as to what should be done? .wS~. CONNELL: Yes, we could do that. If we get a request from the land owner. TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: Or the Trustees? MR. CONNELL: Or from the Trustees. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That might be something to pursue at this moment. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: We can develop a plan and tell Mr. Neuer he's got to do it. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: And then we have something to say that this is what he has to do now or else and then we kick it up to the next step. And that next step might be. you (referring to Mr. Aurichio) because your the property owner. MR. AURICHIO: Yeah, but if it's gonna cost me some money .... TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Right, you have to solve that with him, that's the civil part of the whole thing. But Allen works with ' two hats ' to let you know, he ' s the President, of the Conservation Advisory Council but he also works with the federal Government with Natural Resource. So his responsibility for the whole County is to provide planting, run off and erosion control an~ that's really what this is a problem of. So what we're gonna do is ask him to develop what should done to mitigate the damage already done and then we'll follow up on that by enforcing that on somebody. MR. AURICHIO: Then what? You' 11 notify me of this then? TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Yes. We' 1! stay in touch. TRUSTEE HOLZAP~EL.: I'lt make a motion, that we t~ble both the. applications of Arnold Neuer. TRUSTEE KING: Second. ALL AYES 8:59 p.m. In the matter of MARDIK & LOUIS DONIKYAN requests a Wetland and Coastal Erosion P~rmit to construct a 100' wooden bulkhead with 2 returns 6' above existing beach level. Located: 54255 Route 48, Southoid. SCTM% 52-1-4 Board of Trustees ..... 23 April 24, 1996 TRUSTEE WENCZEL: I apologize for not being at the Work Session on this. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: We talked to him and our concern was, once. again, was the toe of the bluff and what we said what we would do was meet at our next inspection And find where that actually is for our mind and his mind. And be able to work it out there. MR. DONIKYAN: I would like to ask if Mr. Wenczel has seen those three stakes. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Yes, I was down there and I made some detailed measurements. MR. DONIKYAN: Recently, sir? TRUSTEEWENCZEL: Yes, within the last ...... MR. DONIKY~: The surveyor's stakes? TRUSTEE~WENCZEL: When did you do this? MR. DONIKYAN': The first week (could not hear him). Easter date, which was April 9th. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: O.K. I think I was the~e prior to that. No I haven'~t seen the latest revision. MR. DONIKYAN: And then I took photograph~ sir and .... TRUSTEE ~ENCZEL: O.K. We'll come down and look. MR. DONIKYAN: The reason I bring this up is I am an engineer. I live in Englewood Board of Adjustment Co~L,~tttees, Army Corps of Engineers for 15 years and of course New Jersey is first authority but I have some profession. I wanted to hear somebodies, maybe neighbors, objection. This way we will be prepared. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I don't see any other faces here, but I'll ask the question. Is there anyone here who wishes to object to the application? What we'll do is once again, we'll table this and meet you out at the site and we'll talk ~hout exactly where it's going to go. The week before, it will be the 15th. WednesdAy. The field inspections are Wednesday, and they start at 12:00 and Diane or Jill will call you and let you know when we will be at the site. TRUSTEE GARRELL: You don't have to come all the way from New Jersey, your contractor can do that too. As long as someone is there to speak with us. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'm gonna make a motion to table this application for re-inspection. TRUSTEE KING: Second. ALL AYES 9:20 p.m. - In the matter of FAUVNER L. SCRIBNER as Trustee requests a Wetland & Coastal Erosion Permit to construct a rock revetment along property to stabilize erosion and construct a 1,200 s.f. single family dwelling. Located: ROW off Peninmula Road, Fishers Island. SCTM $10-3-1 TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: Marty or Peter you guys went out and looked at thus. TRUSTEE GARRELL: This was no problem. We just added to this a requirement to add a non-turf buffer and hat bales. There was no problem with this. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Well I think the question was, "How big a buffer?" I thought 30' from the top of the bluff would be appropriate. I'll make a motion to close the hearing. Board of Trustees 24_ April 24, 1996 TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE GAR~RLL: I'll make a motion to grant for a Coastal Erosion and Wetland Permit with stipulation there be a 30' non-turf non-fertilized buffer along buff and haybales placed during construction. TRUSTEE WENCZEL: Second. ALL AYES TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: I'll make a motion to return to the Regular Meeting, TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES 8. ~. BONTJE requests an Amendment to Permit ~4496 to extension which will be in a "J" configuration rather than an "L" configuration. The other dock will be a 20' extension south rather than 18' and a 16' return on the "J" rather than 14' to allow for the !0' vegetation setback and still reach deep water. Located: Island View Lane, Greenport. SCTM ~57-2-23 TRUSTEE EOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone who wishes to speak either for or against this application? I'll make a motion that we approve the Amendment based on our own view and the c~mL%ents of the CAC., TRUSTEE GARP~L SECONDED. ALL AYES 9. _754©M~S ~F/4OPOULOS re~s~s a Waiver to erect a chain link fence 4' high around prop%rty for protection. Located: · 970 Village Lane, Mattituck. SCTM ~!14-6-!5 TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL moved to table the application for re-inspection, TRUSTEE GARRELL seconded. ALL AYES 10. Mary G. Roberts on behalf of GOOSE ISLAND CORPORATION requests a Waiver to construct a doorway on one of the side walls of s~m£,er restaurant. Located: Central Ave., Fishers Island. SCTM ~10-1-8.1 TRUSTEE GARRELL moved to approve the Waiver, TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES V. RESOLUTIONS: 1. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of EDNA MC CALLION requests a Grandfather Permit to reshea~h an existing functional timber groin. Located: 1!00 Dean Drive, Cutchogue. SCTM ~116-5-13 TRUSTEE GARRELL moved to approve the Grandfather Permit, TRUSTE, E HOLZAPFEL seconded. ALL AYES 2. Resblution to restrict the length of residential docks on the Peconic & Gardeners Bays such that they shall extend no further than 100' from Mean High Water. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve the resolution, TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded, TRUSTEE KING abstained. 3. Resolution to allow fences delineating property lines to extend seaward only ~? *b~¢ .point of Mean High Tide, and to be no more dense than a split raiI f~nce. Board of Trustees 25 April 24, 1996 ~RUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL moved to approve, TRUSTEE WE~CZEL seconded. ALL AYES 4. Resolution to restrict the width of residential catwalks construct over tidal waters and tidal wetlan~ to 3 feet. A motion was made by TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL to propose the above policy and seconded by TRUSTEE WENCZEL. As there was not a majority of the Board. voting for the above policy, the MOTION WAS LOST. (policy was not adopted). VI. MOORINGS: 1. ANTOINE ROMANO requests a mooring in Mattituck Creek [Howard's Branch) for a 24' outboard w~th 175 1.b. mushroom. ACCESS: Private TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFF. L moved to approve according to Bay Constables approval, TRUST~.V. WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES 2. GREGORY OLSEN requests a mooring in Richmond Creek for a 22' outboard with a !00 1.b. mushroom. ACCESS: Public TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL moved to approve according to Bay Constables approval, TRUSTEF, WENCZEL seconded. ~r,r. AYES 3. SEAN HAL~ requests a mooring in James Creek for an 8' j etski. ACCESS: Private ?RUSTEE HOLZAPFEL moved to approve according to Bay ConstAbles approval, TRUSTEE WENCZEL seconded. ALL AYES 4. RAYMOND CONKLIN requests a mooring in Little Creek for a 13' outboard with a 50 lb. mushroom. ACCESS: Public TRUST~.R ~OLZAPFEL moved to approve according to Bay Constables approval, TRUSTEE, WKNCZEL seconded. ALL AYES 5. CLAIRE M. POWERS requests a mooring in Little Creek for a 15' boat with oars. ACCESS: Public TRUSTEE 5OLZAPFEL moved to approve with according to Bay Constables approval, TRUSTEE WENCZRT. seconded. ALL AYES Meeting Adjourned at 9:35 p.m. RESPECTFULLY SUBMITTED BY: Diane J. ~rbert Clerk, Board of Trustees