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HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-04/30/1997 Albert J. Krupski, President Town Hall John Holzapfel, Vice President 53095 Main Road Jim King P.O. Box 1179 Martin H. Garrell Sonthold, New York 11971 Peter Wenczel Telephone (516) 765-1892 Fax (516) 765-1823 BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES TOWN OF SOUTHOLD MINUTES %PRIL 30~ 1997 PRESENT WERE: Albert J. Krupski, Jr., President John Holzapfel, Vice - President Jim King, member Martin Garretl, member Jill Doherty, Clerk ABSENT: Peter Wenczel, member CALL MEETING TO ORDER PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wed. MAY 21, 1997 12:00 p.m. NEXT TRUSTEE BOARD MEETING: Wed., MAY 28, 1997 7P.M. WORKSESSION: 6:00 p.m. APPROVE MINUTES: Approve minutes of MARCH 1997 Regular Meeting. I. MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for MARC~ 1997: A check for $2,310.48 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the General Fund. II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's Bulletin Board for review. III. AMENDMRNTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES: t. DANIEL MOONEY requests an Amendment to permit 94563 to construct new single family dweli~ug as per surve~ dated November 28, 1995. House across the street will remain as is. Located Rabbit Lane, East Marion. SCTM ~31-17-i1. A motion was made byTRUSTEE Fd{UPSKI bud seconded byTRUSTEE KING to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES. 2. JA3tES HARMON, JR. requests a Waiver to plant cedar trees a~d place a berm 50-60 yards of topsoil, two feet deep at the crest to facilitate the planting of the trees.. Hay bales will be. utilized as indicated on diagram. Located 1175 Cedar Point Drive East, Southold. SCTM $92-1-9. ~ ~' board of Trustees ~2 ~J April 30, 1997 A motion was made by TRUSTRR KING and seeonded by TRUSTEE GARRELL'to approve the abovs applicatio~ as descrih~d~ ALL A~TES. 3. ROBERT AND PAT ALCUS req~aests an Amendment to Permit 94386 tQ reflect the sturv~y dated April 8, 1996, 12' X 36' pool, 17' X 57' deck and a 13' X 25' deck, hot tub, and garage. Located Cedar Point Drive East, Southold. SCTM 992-1-2.1. A motion was made b~ TRUSTEE KING and seconded by TRUSTEE GARRE~L to approve the above application, subject to non-turf bLuS~er as per original pe~mlt. ALL AYES. 4. MARIA AN~RIOPOULOS requssts a Waiver to construct deck additions to existin~ deck and dwelti.ng as per plan dated as received April 11, 1997 and ZBA Permit. Located 1605 Westview Dr., Mattituck. SCTM ~107-7-9. A motion was made bM TRUSTEE KRIr2SKi and seconded by TRUSTEE KI~G to Table this application until 5-21-97, for the next field insp6ction. Retaining wall built without permit and is on neighbors property. ALL AYES. 5. LEO OLSEN request~ an Amendment to permit ~328 to reposition a 4' X 35' dock as per drawin~ dated 3-3-97. Located 3590 North Road,~ Greenport. SCT~ ~35-4-2~.12. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded b~ TRUSTEE KING to approve the above appticatian as dsscribed. ALL AYES. 6. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of JEAN N. CALHOUlq requests a Waiver to construct a swi~uin~ pool, pool backwash, decking, retaining wall and fencing. Ail work is greater than 75' from M.H.W. As per plans dated 3/25/97. Located Private Road, Fishers Island. SCTM ~3-2-7. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KING and seconded byTRUSTEE ~OLZA~FEL to approve tke above application as d2scrihed. ALL AYES. 7. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of WILLIA~ PE requests to Transfer Permit ~'s 4590 & 4379 from Michael J. Leahy to William Penny, Also to Amend Permit ~4379 to change configuration of dock from 3' X 26' dock, 3' X 16' ramp and one 6' X 20' float straight out to a 4' X 40' dock, 3' X 16' ramp, two 6' X 16' floats in "L" config%bratiOn, tb~cc 2 - pile dotpb~ns and two storm po~es. Located 2200 Hobart Ave., Southold. SCT~I964-3-4. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KING and s6co~ded bM TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES. ~ HENRY DUPRE requests an Ame2Etm~t to Permit ~334 to install a 4' X 5' ramp snd a 5' X 20' float and 2 pilings. Located 1460 Strohson Ro~, Cutchogue. SCTM ~103-10-29.1. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KRUPSKt and-seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES. 9. David Ci~hanowicz on behatf of ALtCEA~D CSARLES Levien requests a Waiver to reconstruct p~nd, approx. 65 c.¥. of fill, 36" high wall and 50' long flared downward t~wa~d each end as p~_r plan dated as received April 28, 1997. Located Be~be Drive, C~tchogu2. SCTM 997-7-25/26. Board of Trustees ~_~3 .... April 30, 1997 A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and secondad by TRUSTEE KING to approve the above application as described. TRUSTEE FJt~PSKi ABSTAINED. ALL AYES. IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS: THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF: THE FOLLORUINGAPPLICATTOT{E FOR PERI~I.TS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHO~i.. I HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLtCATION'FRO~THE S~F~OLKTI~ES. PERTINENt/ CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE R~ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR C~.FROM THE PUBLIC. PLEASE F~EP YOUR COSE~ENT~ ORGANIZED-AND BRIEF': FIVE (5) MINUTES OR LESSr IF POSSIBLE 1. Pat Moore on behalf of RICHARD SIRIANO requests a Wetland Permit to constz~act a bulkhead in a 30' X 35' existing basin with (2) i0' returns with associated dredging, 8' wide walk around basin, and approval for existing 3' X 12' ramp and 5' X 20' float. Located 600 Beebe Drive, CutchOgue. SC~ $97-7-5, TR~JSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Wemet with that one before, so I'm going to make a motion that we table this till next month. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFR. L and seconded by TRUSTEE KING to Table the application till next month. ALL AYES. 2. Proper-T Permit Services on behalE of WILLIA~ LAq~{A~ requests a Wetland Permit to construct stairs from top of blu~ to beach, with 4' X 8' platform at top; stairs 4' wide with run of 31'-9". Located 1310 Grand View Drive, Orient. SCTM ~14-2-3.16. TERUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Is there anyone in the public that would like to speak for or against this application? MR. FITZGERi~LD: Yes, Jim Fitzgerald for Mr. Latham. I don't have anything to add to the information that's in bhe application, but I would be more than happy to answer anyquestions. TRUSTEE.HOLZAPFEL: Is there anybod~ else that would like to speak from the public? I did the inspection and there is absolutely no problem in m~/mind with the project. It's standard steps going from the top of the bluff to the base. They are 4 feet or 3 1/2 feet above? MR. FITZGERALD: 3 1/2 . TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That's bccn char~d? MR. FITZGERALD: Yes. CLERK: CAC rec~maends approval wi~h tb~ exceptio~ o~ 4 feet alx~,e grade. TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: Anybody else have any comments? i'll make a motion that we close the hearing. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded by TRUSTEE KING to close the hearing. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL anclsecondedby TRUSTEE GARRELL to approve the above application as desczibed. ALL AYES.. 3. J.M.O. Consulting on be~l.f of LESTEREISENBERG reques~ts a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' X 10' fixed dock, 3' X 12' ramp and 6' X 20' float 15' off property lkne. Original dock was 3' off property line. Located 925 Long Creek Drive, SOUlthOld. SCT~ $55-3-27. Board of Trustees ..14 April 30, 1997 cLERK: I believe Marty inspected this. TRUSTEE GARRELL: I looked at that, my only question was, it's such a small piece, it' s a small creek. The question is does that actually get out into the deeper water, and I had no problem with it. I did wsu~t to know there's two properties here, the one has a very larg~ piece of property on it, and the othaz one has a house, that~'s staked. out on it. Which one is the. Eisenberg propert!r? Does Eis~enberg have a house on his property? CLERK: Yes. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes,. according to this it does. TRUSTEE GARRELL: The photographs tP~t a~e accompanying this, they are basically, everything's right there in the photograph.. So I have no problem with it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I doesn't seem 1Lke an awfully large structure. TRUSTEE GAR_REILL: NO, where the beck does that crock come c~dt into? TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: Arshamomaque. TRUSTEE GARRELL: It comes right out into the Arshamemaque. Yeah sure o.k. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So your not putting a big boat there any way cause your going to get under the railroad[ wrench. TRUSTEE GARRET.¥..: That's why everybody's got the little 14' canoes and.., yeah. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You want to make a motion on that? A motion was made by TRUSTEE GAt~R¥.L and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to close the hearing. AI.L AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE' GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to approve the above appti~-~tion as described. ALL AYES. '4. Lynda Spangel on behalf of GREGORY ANTOIAN requests a Wetland permit for a 4' X 70' catwalk across wetlands. Located 330 Inlet Lane, Greenport. SCT~ $43-5-3.17. TRUSTEE KRUPSF~: I think this is another one oi Marty's, I believe. TRUSTEE GAR~RLT.: Is this the one. that, the catwalk is in there right? CLERK: Right. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Yeah everyb0dy'~s got' similar structures on theadjacent properties, so there's no problem with that. I make a motion to go off the public hearing. A motion was made by TRUSTEE GA/~EI.L and secon'ded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to close the hearing. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE GARRELL and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES. bulkhead with 1 - 15' armored, return on the east side and hut~ will tie into neighbors bulkh~m~ to west and be armored. 1O0O c.y. +/- of clean fill will be brought in and bluf~ will be re-vegetated. Also replace existing stair case with 3 - 4' X 4' platform landings. Ail b~oken concrete, and block will he removed ~rom site and old staircase as per plans dated 4/10/97. Located 19575 Soundview Ave., Southold. SCTM %51-4-it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The hoard looked at t~is. Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of or against, the a~plication? CAC rec~ approval, b~ the bulkhead is placed as close to the foot o~ the bluff property as possible. Board of Trustees _.~5 . . April 30, 1997 CLERK: We haven't finished looking into the nei~kboryet. CAC aske~ about that too. We haven't f~nd anything yet. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Does this also go over the prope~t~ line now. CLERK: He has a letter of penmission from the neighbor. TRTJSTEE ~OLZAPFEL: Andhed~es have the latter? CLERK: Yes, it's in the file. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's proposed where it was marked on the. field though. So there not going to put it out here. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: No but it's crossing~ the line. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah I understand that. TRUSTEE ~OLZA~FEL: That's all I was asking, we. just wante~ to make sure that that was c~ered. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. and here the~' are not. TRUST~E HOLZ~APFEL: That's a problem. Was their any reason w~y? CLERK: He couldn't get the neighbors permission to tell you over there, to eve~ go near him. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we will in a year when this is got out here. Do I have a motion to close the hearing? A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and sec~xded b~ TRUSTEE GARRELL to close the hearing. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KR~PSKI and seconded by TRUSTEE to approve the above application as described. ALL AYES. 6. Bay Creek Building on behalf of FRANK SCAVONE requests a Wetland Permit to add a 45' X 12' two story addition to the south side of the house, with no further encroachment towards the water/bluff as per plans dated as received 4/10/97'. Located 1615 Fleetwood Road, Cutchog~e. SCUM ~137-4-35. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here that would like to speak in favor of or against the applicant, any comment from the board? We talked about it berate and there's no problem. TRUSTEE GARRELL: Is this the one that involves the letter to Louis Chiarella. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Yes, but not about, the house. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is just a house, she's almost nom jurisdictional. TRUSTEE GARRETS: That letter is a great, example o~ why you should never, write a letter o~ the spot, then sit around TRUSTEE KING: Did you ask him for any drywetls for the roof? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's a good idea. TRUSTEE KING: Should we ask them? TRUSTEE F~RU~SKI: Yea_h, definitely. TRUSTEE HOLZA~EEL: We mentioned it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No we should put it, what didthe CAC say? Recommends approval o.k. Do I have a motion to approve the hea.rin~? A motion was madaby TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL and sec~n~d~by TRUSTE~ GARRELL to close the hearing. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KR~PSKI and seconded h~ TRUSTE~ HOLZAPFEL to approve the above application as described~ ~bject to dr2wells to contain roof run of-~. ALL AYES. 7. Samuels & Steelman Architects on behalf of MIKE WITHERS requests a Wetland Pezmit to construct a 950 s.f. one sto~ addition to an existing~ 1 1/2 story wood frame house, interior and exteric~ renovations to the existing house, a dorm~z aadition~ to an existing garage, gravel pazking area, two 6' high fences as. per site plan Board of Trustees 6 ~ April 30, 1997 dated 3/31/97. Located 6635 New Suffolk Ave., New Suffolk. SCTM 117-5-24. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any one here would, like to speak in favor or against the application? CAC recommends approval for a 10~ non turf bu~fe~ behind the hnlkhe~ TRUSTEE HOLZAPFRL: The o~ly comment I have is where's th~ 10', is it worth putting a 10' buffer over here. I mean are we goir~ to ask that. TRUSTEE KRDqPSKI: No I don't think so. Only whe~ they re do the bulkhead. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: So do we even want to include a TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. Any other colm~t. Do I have a motion to close thehearing? A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLEAPFEL ~ second, by TRUSTEE KIN~ to close the hearing. ALL AYES. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL and seconded k~ ~USTEE KING. to approve the above application as d~scrihed. ALL AYES. 8. WARREN AND MARY JACF~ON requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' X 32' catwalk, 3' x 12' ramp and a 6' X 20' float in a "T" co~figuration.. Located 300 Dccp Hole Drive, Mattituck. SCT~ %1t3.-12-4. TRUSTEE KRU~SF~I: Is there anyone here that would like to speak in favor of or against this application? CAC recommends approval, and they want a non turf buffer. TRUSTEE' HOLZAPFEL: Again they're not disturbing this, I. could understand it if the~ were. You know Jill, just as a point to save time, this should be 3 1/2 or 4 feet. That should be an automatic thing, above the marsh. You know in other wo~ds, ever~hod~ always writes catwalk, if you can just tell them that it's suPPcse~ t~ be 4 feet. ~_nan.we don't have to keep a~ding it to everyone, the same thing with the steps going down the hluf.f. Just as a general...it.' 11 make, instead of having to put it in every application and cha~ge it. CLERK: O.K. TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: Jim, you looked at this? TRUSTEE KING: Yeah, this really d~esn't gc across any marsh~ to speak of. TRUSTEE ~OLZAPFEL: Oh is it, I just saw catwalk. There you TRUSTEE K/NG: There's no nee~ to worry about the height on this one. It's just straight forward, there's plenty of room. There's absolutely no problem there at all. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There's enough room across? TRUSTEE KIN~: Excuse. TRUST~ KI~UPS~: Is there ~n. oLl~h TRUSTEE KING: Oh yeah, it's wid~ open. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. Do I have a motion te close the hea=ing9 A motion was mad~ by TRUSTEE ~DLZA~PEL a~ seconded~ h~ TRUSTEK GA~/~ELL to close the h~ari~g. ALL AYES.. A motion was m~d~ by TRUSTEK KING and seconded by TRUSTEE H~FEL to approve the above applicatio~ as d~scribe~. ALL AYES. 9. Dean Hough on hehal! of JOSEPh-PILLUS requests a Wetland Permit to construct a 3' X 3' platform' off bulkhead wi.th a 3' X 8' ramp, 6' X 20' float to a 3' X 10' float to a 6' X 20' float as per dra~ing received April 11, 1997. LOcated 228~ Ole Jule Lane, Mattituck. SCTM %122-4-t0. Board of Trustees ~.7 ~ April 30, 1997 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here that would like to comment on this application, in favor or against.? We met with the appliaant on site. We decided on a different configuration. CAERK: Yeah, we haven't gatten the ne~ drawing~, I think it was just a e~iminating that, and putti~g~ these two together. TRUSTEE KRLr2SKI: I think it was to keep the, let. me. sca d owe have the survuy? CLERK: So it would he 15 feet? ~USTEEKING: It's going to be the floats against t_he bulkhead, ~th th~ boat tied up in fro~t of the floats. T~USTEE KRUPSKI: Start with the one float, 15 feet off the southerly property line, and then go with the two floats, and th~n put his boat. ~gainst the bulkhead. Because the boat and the float block the dharnlel. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Say that again Al, I'm sorry. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: ~e's allowed to put 2 floa~ star. ting 15 feet cfr the property line, on the southerly side. He can't use th~ 10' float, because that brings it up too far, because he's got to park his boat. He's got tc put the big boat against the bulkhead, on the north en~ of the property'. TRUSTEE HOLZA~EEL: It's alreaa~ going to be to the property line, With the 15' boat. ~STEE KRUPSKI: The boat will go to the property line, but there's no. It's the structure t~t he can't put to the property line. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: And so why does he need the floats? CLERK: To keep it off the bulkhead, he claims his boat hits the bulkhead. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, we are not permitting him to put the big boat on there, because it will block the channel, and i/ he. does than it's a violation. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Did he avenge? TRUSTEE KRUPSKt: No. We can just Table it than. TRUSTEE HOLZAP~EL: I m~n I wouldn't wan.t to tell him, if he's not here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: CAC recommeuds disapproval because the. pro~ect causes excess bottomcover. CAC reco~aends app=cvat of permit, for' one 6' X 20' float only. I don't k~ow, we could approve one 6' X 20' float, 15' off the property line, or we could just Table it. We should Table it c~use it was a week and we haven't heard anything from him. CLERK: They did call and I never got beck in touchwith them. TRUSTEE. KING: Let him give ,~ a new drawing of' exactly what he's going to put there. Because there's bee~ problems here cn this property. TRUSTEE KRLr2SK!: O.K. Is that~ a motion? TRUSTEE KING: Yes. A motion was made by TRUSTEE KING and seconded by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to TABLE. this application, upon receipt o~ new drawing, (2) 6'X 20' floats starting 15' away from southerly side. O.K. ALL AYES. 10. KIM MONIT~ILL requests a Wetland Permit to construct a single family dwelling, porch., driveway, septic system, 1000 c.y. of fill. Also to construct a 4' X 30' catwalk, 4' X 10' ramp and a 4' X 16' float as per plan dated Ma mob 25, 1997. Located Jackson Landing~, Mattituck. SCT~i 9113-4-4. · Board of Trustees 8 April 30, 1997 TRUSTEE K~UPSKI: Any one here would like to speak in favor of or the applicatinn? THEUER: I own and live in the prop~rt~rright next door. I have ~n he, plans, and I have no o~jections at all. STEE H~LZA~FEL: Could you just give your name~. MRS. THEUER: THE~ TR S SE TRUSTEE K~Lr~'SKI: I don' t think we had any questiorn~ about the: ho~s~,~ we did have so~$ questions about ho%r you w~ald handle .... our permits ca~ry, co~er everything, including any activities. So what's your as far as clemo~ing, for a view? We assume mostpeopl~ do.~ O.K. so the gradingwill be done b~ the' co~.-_~tru~tion % pretty much that's it. KRtFBSKI: But I mean. will the gr~e, do you propose to cha~g~ e g~ade? .. MO~LL: What will the grade be? TRUSTEE K~uPSFg: Yes? MRS. MONTWILL: Is existing and then future grade on them, so. This is ~he present grade. Wait a second. TRUSTEE FdING: The fill is just going to the front of the struc~n~re. Whi~hwou!d be in here. TRUSTE, R KRIM~SKI: Is this a different one or. MRS. MONTWIY~L: This one is different. Proposed grade, see it would be here, at 2 foot intervals, 16, 14, 12, 10, and 8 at the house. Then this will remain the same. Because ~his, the DEC said that the title wetland boundari~s, that can't be touchmd. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: o.k. but as far as. We assume that you want to do somethin~heze. A trim for a vie~ or something. MRS. MONTWtAL: Right, right. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. cause you have Phrawmites there also. TRUST~.~ KING: Not until down her~. TRUSTEE KR%~SKI: Right down here right.? TRUSTEE KING: Nothings got to be t~uched down here. TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: O.K. MRS. MOIFEWILL: Well this is the tall marsh. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's the Phragmites. TRUSTR~ KING: Right. MRS. ~: Well the house has. to be in line with the road and the way this lot was, it was determiningthe 50's it se~,~ that the cliff hangs off so t~ house, would already be at 16'. So I don't think the weed~ .are going to be a prohlom. TRUSTEE FdtUPS~: Oh Wow. MRS. MONTWILL: YOu see what I'm saying9 TRUSTEE KRIM~SKI: Sure, sure. MRS. MO~fWILL: Then down here is ... we can't touck this the DEC said no. He said we can cleaz out some~ o~ the vegetatio~ i~ther~.as long as the. natu~al~ most o~ the natural., there's a big deaclt_~e~ there. TRUSTEE. KRU~SKI: Your allowed to: trim the trees ba~k for a view. TRUSTEE KING: You can clea~ a pathway down to your dock. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah a path wa~ down to th~ dock is no problem-. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFRI.: You want to describe thak in the application so that... TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well what happens, sometimes is .... Board of Trustees 9 April 30, 1997 MRS. MONTWILL: Well the tough part is it's hard for anyone to get in, because you would actually have to walk in andmarkwhich trees you weutd take down is that it? TRUSTRR KRUPSKt: NO, no you would just say, selective clea~ing for a view. And you could take down whatever you neede~ to take down f~ra view. This is fine, cause: the. trees there aren't ac~uallF protecte~ wetlands. So if you want to you can taka them all out.. MRS. MONTWILL: Which is prett~ much what we want to- do. But up to here. TRUSTEE KR[rgSKI: Well even here, tb~'s a black locust in the~e. They aren't wetland trees, you can take them out a!sc. TRUSTF~E HOLZAPFEL: I think when AL says tak~ them out, he mea~ bring in the bulldoze~ an~tur~ them over. He means just cut them down. TRUSTEE KRL~SKI: No soil disturbance. TRUSTEE HOI.~A~FEL: tf your goin~ to disturb the soil, that's a whSle new ball g~une. Do you understand what he's tr!ring to say? MRS. MONT~ILL: Yes, Yes. So here is fine to the title wetland boundary, because it's heavily vegetated. TRUSTEE~ KRUPSKI: Oh no that's no problem. All this is fine~. MRS. MONTWILL: So all this is butldnze~, ~ this is chainsaw. TRUSTEE KRUPSKt: Right. MRS. MO}VfWILL: Fine. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: And what we want to avoi~ is lawn going down to th~ creek. MRS. MONTWILL: O.K. TRUSTF. R KR~PSKI: I mean~ if you want to have a little lawn in the front than that's fine, but we don't want. to see that in tur~. MRS. M©NTWILL.: Where would you like to see it? Trees ~nd vegetation. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah you could leave it the way it is, or you could landscape it, it's natumal species that don't require spray or fertilizer. That sort of thing. There's a long list of different ornamental, plants that you could plant there. If you wanted to landscape that, if you want to do a path, and landscap~ the path or whatever, there's a large list of plants you could put in there. MRS. MONTWILL: O.K. That's fine. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You just don't want a lawn down to the water, with fertilizing and watering and all that. MRS. MONTWILL: We reall~ didn't think we could touch much here anyway~ except put the natumalvegetationback. Cause some o~ the trees must be 100 years old and broken and dead. TRUSTEE KR%~PSKI: O.K. So we will word that in the permit. Is the=e any other comment? A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAP~L and seconded hyTRUSTRR GARRELL to'close the h~. AI~_LAYES. A motion was mad~b~ TRUSTEE K~/JP~SKt and. seco~'d~ h~ TRUSTEE G~ to approve the ably= application ~db~ectto nc more tha~ 20' of turf- from the house to the wate~ and no regrading f=om tur~ to creek. Selective trimming for view is o.k. ALL AYES. 11. Decko, Inc. on. behalf of PIRATES. COVE~A requests a Wetland. Permit for existing marina as foilers; Bulkheadi~g consisting approx. 310' of stons and steel; approx. 20' ramp consisting concrete, gravel and crushed stone; approx. 240' of floatin~ docks 6' wide for walking, 2 - 6' X 32' floats and 1 - 6' X 30' float, 6 piles, a 6' X 8' landing platform, le~ding to a 3' X 40' ramp and a Board of Trustees ~t0 April 30, 1997 second 3' X 40' ramp at the westerly end, a 4' X 32' stagin~ dock attached to a 6' X 30' floating dock with a 3' ramp, a 24' X 48' fixed dock, ramp and a 16' X 16' float, also to add a 10' X 16' extension to float.. See filed for a more detailed description. All in accordance with plans date~ Fe~ 2, t997o Located. Pennisul~Raad, Fishers Island. SCTM 910-3-22. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: This is going to be Tabl~ed. TRUSTEE E_RUPSKI: I thought it. was going to be, but. TRUSTEE KING: I looked at it in March and what I looked at was replacing some poles, and that one float. I didn't look at the rest of. it. CLERK: Well the shaded part is what they want to work oK, but they have nothing permitted, preexisting. TRUSTEE KRUPSKt: Alright make a motion then. A motion was made b~TRUSTEEKING and seconded by TRUSTEE KRUPSKI to TABLE this appticatic~for reinspection in May. ALL AYES. * 12. John Geidemanonbehalf of JOHN EDLRR requests a Wetland Permit to construct 2 40' groins as per drawing date~ 2/7/97. Located Cleaves Pt. Road, East Marion. SCTM ~35-2-32. '13. ANTHONY NAPOLITANO recp,~sts a Wetland Pe&~t to construct 1 40' groin as per drawing dated 2/7/97. Located Cleaves Pt. Road, East Marion. SCTM ~38-3-33. '14. FRANK TOMASINI requests a Wetla/lctPeLmit to constru~t 2 - 40' groins as per drawing dated 2/7/97. Located Cleaves Pt. Road, East Marion. SCTM ~38-3-34. '15. NORMAN TAYLOR requests a Wett~nd ~ermit to construct 2 40' groins as per drawing dated 2/7/97. Located Cleaves Pt. Road, East Marion..~ SCT~ ~3S-2-35. ****NOTE: Public Hearings 9 12, 13, 14, & 15 are together. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there an~bod~ h~re that would~ like to speak in favor of the application. MR. EDLER: The first thing to clari~¥ the con~usion at the ~ield inspection of theoperations with the DEC. In February JohnGeidm~ contacted them and they said, one application, one picture, and one set of plans. This Mond~ in checking out why after 5 weeks there was no contact. It was found that it was put on the incc~nplete ~ite~ So now what they want is 4 applications, 4 pictures, an~ 16 se~s of plans. Tomorrow or no. later tha~Frida¥ John. will send them, in, but Ton~, the Napolitano's there 13, he'Il brin~ up-the pictures so that in your ~ile, you will have a cop~¥ fr~m each of the 4 applications. As it_ applies to the groins, and. the pictu~re from the waterside. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Atright thanks, from our end, just a little explanation. We requi~e a separate application for each text lot, each separate lot. However we're looking at this as one pr~j'ect. MR. EDLER: Right, but you have separ'ate applications? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes, thank you. MR. EDLER: But I mean originally it was the DEC that had told John only one, as though we're treating it as a single. So that is to clarify that. The pictures indicate the tax. map information on the back. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. that's great. Board of Trustees ~11 April 30, 1997 FiR. EDLER: Now we had received in the mail, in time, so that also here. We don't want to send the CAC .... Here's the answer to your letter, that had the qu~-~tions. TRUSTEE F~UPSKI: Thank you. MR. EDLER: We will have mo~e pictuz'~s, as we go TRUSTEE, KRU~SKI: Can X read this out lo~-~d to the rest of the MR. EDLER: YES. TRUSTieR KRUPSKI: You~ resuonse to our le.tter. MR. RnLER: Well X was goin~to, deal with e~h oE mayb~have illustrations. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Oh great. Thank you MR. EDT.E~: So this is wh¥, I figured you would wan.t the ~n-swer~ we'll give it to you in black and white. We'll give it to you ora~l~', and we will give it by a visual presentation. So the questio~as to that u~it directional movement of sand, as you see that wh_~-u the winds blow fzu, u ~he east, obviously it blows west. When it blows the west, it 9oes east. When it comes from the south, it's straight on. The predominance of the east, was unfortunately in the fall., and winter and the west are more towards the s%~u~r. Whe~ the heat and the sail are southwest. So it used. to be that there was a balance of hill now. But in recent times there's been predominance of the heat unto about the amount of the material in the net. The net is described here and fingered out, it's between, or the cell between the two inlets, in Gardeners Bay Estates, and the entrance to the oyster pond. And the best because they've been such. a void. Like Louis even cozmuente~ there's not an otde~ amount, of sand out there, so this figure is bas~ on the 1500'. 750 out to the buoy, which, is almost remaining~ in shatlowwater, and no more tb~u two inches oE sand along the bottom. It comes out to the 7,000 cubic square yards. Then on 3, what is the zone of transport? The brake is on. It's really a show of area, as we state. It's mixed with rocks.~ clay, a little grass, rol.'.lin.~ Sezb~ and no breaking zone, and no squish squash, or s~.-d TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Great, thank you. MR. EDLER: This one will sho~ the rolling Serb, this is a shock., in the midst of an aUtista. Now you see we don't get b~eak and you get th~m over ~and over, becaus~ its shoaled, and 3u~ hav~ the forward you can sec what looked like little waves out there, i'that butWhead, and sendin~up th~ splashy. So you get an and impact left, and an im~actright, and impac~ down. We're about, it's not like havin~ a sand bar, or a ~reat amount, have a unique situation there. I don't talk frOm inexPerience, becau~eI teach weather, and ~or safety', part of it is all wind and waves. Functioning with beats and shoals, and how to guess with the br~eak~rs.~ what the. depth is. So this is a unique situation, with variables that you d.o~'~ normaityne~4. In a situation, I guess that's what co~trib~t~sto the s-~dde~erosion~. The fact that suddenly, it doesn't seem to~be a grass f~u_rtumto hold the sand partictes, as they go through the water. NOW what is the percentage o~ sand, the gro~ will alte~? Well i~ we don't build them, they will need from t he bay~ i~ 900 cubic yards.. However as projected in ~he apuli~un, we fill them~ tb~n~ it would only be 49 cubic yards. With the assumptio~o~ about a~ inch wasl~ off the top. Now the design~ which, would go i~ tbe way'that is simply stabilizing gr~ins, which should fun~ion~ prol~erty; be the same= as between paradise point, and Cedar Beach where the level in the sand, _Board of Trustees j. 12 ~ April 30, 1997 make a nice walking effect. It wouldn't b~ sand steel as in SO~LLe other areas, so we can get to the side view. Now if your working with 7000 cubic yards, with the-900, then if we b~.~ them emptie~. We would be taking i3% out of the net d~at. If we are going' within full, we are 7000th of one percent.. TRUSTEtfKRUPSKt: Can I stop you there? Do you think that's accurate9 TRUSTEE HOLZAPF~T~: Well I'm sure you measured the length~ of t~e jetty, and the commo~profile now. And just measu~e~howmuch it would take to fill it up. MR. EDLER: Yeah well the basi~ is that if yu~r runnin.~, it's g~ing up 40", and we have a picture later back to the normal contours of the sand. We can prove it by the pict~r~. So you take a. factor of 3.3 times 4. Divide it by 400, divided in half, and then divide it by 27. Because your working with cubic feet. Now anticipated, downward this side. It's predate is east to west, but if we now g~ back to what we had in sto~, which, was. We dropped 40" to 45, that w-as the survey on it. Then we lost 1,083 cubic yards. And going down. and looking at the current status of the inlet to the oyster company. I.t has approximately 2,000 cubic yards clogging into' that low wat~r off right to shipyard lane. And last year the m ant hat had the bay boat in there used the backhaul and took out ~te a bit. And thay still Piled up as you walked down and saw the sand approximately, as I could figure the measurement, it was about 667 cubic yards ther~e-. So the total of two years of accumulation is almost 2600. So obviously, where our sand disappeared with the thrift bound to the west, and into the entrance; or inlet~ to the oyster com~an~, tt has been- magnified, because, while*h.~y ha~e thee permit, to ~ld the bulkheads., therefore why are they just not ~__~rcisingwhe' knows what the easie~ Problem is. So it just washes , it doesn't have the eld groin out to the dolphin to stop it from getting the hackfeedwh-e~the winds are southwest. Then the overall objective, that was the restoral of squiSh squash, as so~e~ say in like: all the sand splash area; s~ that. it exists in 34 years, and suddenL~ it's gone. It even lastecla while after the no nam~ nOrtheast stozm of 92. Now in h~r~, this shows a~d you can verify that I'm standing by the bulkhead, and this is in January of 95. N~w even you tall boys, if you got down on the beach,. can even look over the bulkhead. If you see wher~myfeet are, you see a light mark that is on the pillage that was the original line where tile sand was. TRUSTEE HOLZAP~TEL: W~t y~ar is this a.~ain? M~.EDLEtt: It's on the back January 95. Now if you John, look at it consistently, this is th~ one~ if you look way at tbs1 back of the. picture, YOu will have t~e: current level of: san~ wit~ the ~tGn~- groin, that nobody has ever takem with. And if. your e!ze catche~ th~ m~st inwamdland pa~t of it, you see it's co~s:ist~ntwith the light thatgoes dow~ all of the pilot. That's the natu~at line of wher~ the_ beach bnilt up. TRUSTEE~KRUPSKI: This line is right by the stringer? MR. EDLER: See it goes along, be~ in the firsty~ar, whe~ Preston put. it in it was allowable. They painted a~ditionalty with...after it was pumpe~ right to. tho sand~line.. And. all the~ jetties that we're destroyed in 92, be~aus~ Pz~stun wanted~ t~ skow up, higher and harder to buJ_l~ the e~Lr~ stron~ ones. So tha3a}s a 34 year old bulkhead that's still going', and we only sho~.up in tho back a 3" inch fine piece~, and a new strand. So we now have to go 17" wide and 5" de. ep of the plan. But I didn't kno~ at that time. it might come Board of Trustees _fl3 . April 30, 1997 in handy as a visual constant refer'ence. So then if we want ta look at page 2, this is to keep it short. You then sec that the whale concept of trying to work the groins, that's in this diagram. There not ~ying ta- he hoggish, but if yom look, you can see it's 36" ta 40". Your not even going to 45' that we h~d on the original survey, and bringing it down at the slope- is consistent_ to which the beach needs to be. So if ever!r thing goes well, when it's filled in, we should go back to what the beach used to be tike. An~ the best exampla, I just suddenly took a ri~ in the. boat, an~you hav~ 35 year'old sand groins all along betwee~ paradise p~int ~acht club and the. marines cultured a~ea. The beach is nice and flat ~nd only a few places where the new bulkhead, hact to g~ in, they dug out the s~ndb~t oth~~ than tha~; you WOUld watk a beach that doesn't trip you. Now With the concept here~ because we used to have people waiting and walking on the beach they would go down and try to fish. off the oys~erpondpie~~. NOw only at low water that the~ca~ just ~hout get the tails. So the concept is not with careful thinking. TR~STEEKRUPSK~: Well to be hor~st with you, this bOardhas n~eT approved a new groin. Part of that reasoning is because the effect that a groin woutd have on the down drift side of it. We'd starve sand and get a terrible erosi~ problam, on one sid~ or another. Now when we went out to lock at this on the field inspection we could sec that tPnts area is ve~yunusual, it's not your no£mal stretch of beach. The area to the east, that be~.~h ~rea~ h.~ alread~ been ~eve~ely impact by structure to the east of that. Which, I think: was efe~red to in the field as wexler's groin. MR. EDLE~: yeah., b~ it's act,~llyAprea's now. But it was built in 72 When wexter's had it. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's what I'm referrin~ to it as. So you~ can see how' ~hat groin has had a negative effect there. But because your properties are so differently arranged than that andbec~dse you hav~- the oyster con~0any on one side of y~, and wb~.t you call the A~ea structure on the ather side. cf yo~.. Something likmthismightwork, it might not. You might put it in and ~ilt it, and. whe~youha~e"that dramatic picture of that wa~e crashing ore= th~bzulk~ You might get one sto~a and lose every bit of sand you put it there. On the. other hand you might h=ve 10 years before you get-a storm c~mimg fromm the right direction. MR. EDLER:: Well ~hat's a possibility, hut you bare no choice, what knack down a whole house. Caus~the water, q%uketly in cubic yards might be 270,000. Magnify that by the intensity of th~-winds, it will Push the climate. So why thesm groins are construe%e~ at a close~ ratio, than is acce~tabl~ at 40' out., and only 40' across.. Now'the~ normal move for groi~-is 2 1/2. times. So 40, then 10.0 looks be~tter, but what I believe is called a sand s~lash area, the turbulence is going to be disappeared as it: want~ to go west o~ east hythe fact that down in where the impact is against the:bulkhead. The=e is something to stop the splash within tO or 20' of the: operation% So what I'm sayingen the other hand or not you could, lose1 the bulkhead. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that's because o~ the uni~ieness c~ the propezty that's why we're seriously entertainin~ this, inste:ad of just saying-, no. Board of Trustees 14 April 30, 1997 MR. EDLER: Well I would hope that wh~oever has the~ property bet-~cc~ Aprea's and the public road realizes all the considem.~tionthat was given in the development of that. But the real way to stabilize that whole area is to then dm th~ same~ height ~ the st~uctuze. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I don't know, I think there soT set back, they would starve the sand. They have got a big problem there. MR. EDT,ME: They would, starve, butt i£ you go into gardener, s h~y~ I don't want to extend it toc far but, gardener~bay-inlet was' the original Gold-~mith inlet,, or jetties instead. That's what is now indented, once w~nt out. And was a casual san~skeet~ and if you go back in as I said, in the registrations o~ divisions, the Schneider sisters had 8 lis there and that d~i~eway that is in front Aprea's, or wexler's came over the apartm~t lin~. There were fotLr lots out in the water, they disappeared sho~Lty after the gardeners bay groin was put in. And if you go beyond that, obviously most of you have traveled the water, you will the old bea~hes are stabilized with periodic sand savi~g stabilized groins.. There- are a few o~ th~n all the way out to Dan Park. Th_~ suddenly that's accumulate~ i25' out from the prop'ert~ line. Just like Goldsmith 300'. I went up the_re and looked at it. I notice~ that th~water still trickles out o~ Goldsmith Inlet, the s~e way it did 15 years ago. The only diffenence is, the 30, 40 bungalows, that was rele~sedon locust post are no more. So with less devices, you will eventually see similar to what once was- a good beach f~r all of the inla~d. So sympathize with your point, I'm glad someon~ is realizing that. it's not quite the same as~ any other% TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, it's not. If it were I don't think we'd be talking about it, rob e honest with you. But. it's not the sam~, we've other groin requests that wouldlbe similar-tn the~ Gotd_~th jetty, and those we don't want to talk about.. Butt his is such a unique. site, I think it would have some merit. Now this is j~t me sprig, not the h~ard. Did you ever consider %u addition to thisproposal, azmory, the bluff, the bulkhead with. some. sort of ston~ mattresses or Gabionto bEeak the force of the~ waves. MR. EDLEE: You mean r'eve~t~?. TRUSTEEKRU~SK!: In addition to the groins, put in a revetment at the bulkhead toe. Just to stabilize that toe. MR. EDLER: There a~e other tb~ngs, one would be to wait a while, to try to Stabilize the groins. Put a more atorium on using dou~kesrrakes and bull rakes. One beloved baln~en that ~o~ght 2 1/2 previous years, 4 days. a week, $5 a day, in accumulation o~ 2,000 houzs. Who donke~ raked every bit of that grass off that part of it. But prior to that there were many p~ that came in that ne~e~ went with donkeys or bulls on foot. So if you run into other ccn~i~o~, before going with a revetment, most people belie~'e that if you trench in front of the shore; your going to steal from ~he shore. The sound in, you dig a trench, as it comes in it creates a disturbance, and natu~u ~ills in to fill up the shoze. I would sa~ ifI you send het~ witkthe groins if they were. approved, then you should saiely heatlowed to trer~_ha foot or two out from- the groin to get the sand to come in and hold.~ And then get the push splash out further into the groins. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: That's an interesting proposal, it's not the pumping that material out of the sound, to those starved areas~t~buitd, the beach up, the material's there. MR. EDLER: The pumpin~ works, but in othe~ areas, they shoutckdig trenches that they also work. Because. you c-antry suave Board of Trustees ~15 April 30, 1997 like working with the man in Southald. All that he is daing is move, making a portable sand splash, turbulenu~ area to drop the particles that are in the sand. We had the eel grass still, it got 2 or 3 feet, it was around the Chesapeake bay. There now using a~ti~icial plastic grass, where it would waste. And they put it in the bott~mwbic~ it falls. You put the little baby scallops in, and put ~hem out in the open. Or if you have bab~ pheasants ar~lyou put the~ in~ a parking lot. How long will the~ last? 5IR. NAPOLITANO: I'm ~ 13 Anthony Napolit~no, we're taki~ this aliA.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Even though it's, legally it has to he separate. We're looking at it as one appticatian. We wouldn't apprave yours and deny the rest. MR. NAPOLITANO: Right. I just wanted t~ ask this question, becaus~ I'm kind o~ new at this. You~ point of along with the 9~oins, putting some kind cf... TRUSTEE KRUPM~I: What's done on the sound, they armor the. bas~ of the bulkhead with stone, and it breaks the contact when the wave hits. MR. NAPOLITANO: I understand this, right. If you were to approve this, and this was to ~e done according to that pla~. Under most circumstances the water would never be getting to the bulkhead. TRUS~EEKRUPSKI: Well you would only armor it in case of severe sto~m event. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: It's not going to change the level o~ the water. The level of the water gets up to the bulkhead, it's going to g~t up to the bulkhead. No matter what hapl~en~. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's just going to keep theft ener~~ from scour~ out at the bulkhead, ~b~t's all. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Bulkheads are hard, he, surfaces, aud you have a reflective energy off that, and tb~.t energy has to go somewhere. What they use in the rocks to break that energy in lots of different directions. So it isn't just hitting in one direction-it's spread out, and the focus of that is hitting in all directions. So you don't have the scouring affect that washes~awa~ the sand in. ~ont of the bulkhead. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It's pretty standard on the sound. MR. NAPOLITANO: O.K. Because I have noticed~ I'm out here two years next month, at ~h~s location. We were excited, we took pictures and so on and so forth.. I was very alarmed at how much we lost in two years, and it's really not just when t~re's a major storm. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This is very'unusual.. MR. NAPOLIS/ANO:I was hopin~ that the consideration would he. that. since the~e are two rather large rock. groins tha~ have heen since the 30's I believe and. that most. of this project falls in between them, will help it to stabilize that whole area.. TRUSTEE KRUPSKi: Because of that it's not just an open'stretch beaCh, where we're going to put somethin~ in there. MR. EDLER.: But there are a lot of other techniques that puzzlem~nt~ be~use the gr~ins also ~on't necessa~it~atwrayshave to be at right angles to the shore line. In s~.e cases: they have tried. parallel resins which is the. turbulence, h~t i~ your there, and that picture sho~s it the best, you have the sta~ cE the rolling SLLr~.. 750' off because- those who don't know the channels 50' deeD. I~ve stood with my son on the bulkhead, it's like lying across the red sea. The~ while the east is trying to throw the water from the 30' in. And now this hurricane is on you. The pressure that has heenput · Board of Trustees 16 April 30, 1997 in from the Peconic bay is coming up 100'. So that you have a wall of water 800' off the shore line. That if it could, come at you, it looks like a serge. But it's held cause the serge coming out, under the pressure of the deeper channel, has grea?e~ st~en.gtk against tb.e water only coming on 30. So it's a hard thing, it might be leaning like this but as I said I've gone ~ough all sorts of things there. In the 35 years that we have bccn there., but the worse was th~no name of 92. In the s%utm~er the h~mrricane came in, I forget the date. That was the big wall of water, but it wasn't a serg~ coming in. It was the water only. When it gets to the shallows you don~t hav~ any big breakers, they just com~l in with this force all of a sudden, that was the bulkhead., even the house shakes. TRUSTEE KRU~SK/: I bet, Well would it make sense t~ put these on a~ angle than, instead of putting thermp~rpendicular, We~ve sccn thom-in different places, at an angle to tzy and bzeak that, coming more out of the east. MR. EDLER: Well the way Geidman did it, but in figuring the angles in would have to be... see when we first started, we were the first one to put in a good bulkhead. And t tried to persuade, a~ter' this next one was destroyed, to hold to the angle we had built. But you see they started to bend in Tomasin-i and then, but if you had held the bu~ in a straight line. We would have bccn making thom consistent on the natural shore line. It would create less problem. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, I don't mean the bulkhead. I mean the jetties. If you put the jetties instead of perpendicular to the shore line, if you put them parallel to the property lines. Wouldn't that give you greater protection? MR. EDLE~: Well in a sense, when they tilt it would be, where ours are, they would be pointing right above, when John put thom. i~, he put on a right angle. I agree with you it's more to the right angle of the property, but I'm also saying that t~ way that the sand throws, it creates a turbulence, when it comes off a tail and. bounces at the notch. The stone sets it off, but then there's even a slight bend on Tony's to which you don't have the no£mal straight-- on. So each one is going to have to be adjusted, with the consideration that impact. But I concu~ what your saying, that the ~ngling has to be like.., more consistent. But now show's to be the shor~ line. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. The board have an~ comment? TRUSTEE HOLZAP~EL: The comment I me~ul to is, I think we really to hear what the department of state and DEC ..... TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah, we wouldn't give you a permit tonight, h~lt we're serious, I think I can speak for the board, we're serious/ky looking at this though. We're not just... MR. EDLER: No well I seri~asly, I wouldn't have brought it up if didn't think it was a sou=nd case foz it. Because there are too many people that are going to flimflam y~a to work out a way. So that's why, for a moment, I was aggravated at you. When you made the comment- that there was another case that someone TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I stood corrected, it is. MR. EDLER: I mean it's nas~ty, hut that's why we only want what's to happening, to, that's why I wanted to show, 'ha~e Joh~put it on the. survey. Then we could intend to start it 45' back, we didn't go up there. We were going to get extma land~ sea that's why I would base it on the water. The person inland,, they got theze lot, then. ths~ take 10 to 15' along the road, and then 10 or 15' along the side. So Board of Trustees _~17 April 30, 1997 suddenly a 10,000' lot, is 15,000'. On the water we don't have any in space cause the curds usually rob ~u~ of your land. ~nd the~~ what is yours on the other side they say you have to kiss it away. TRUSTEE F~P'SK!: Well t den1't kIlow we went to Cutchogue, and a fellow was complaining because it was filling in and he was gaiming. ~R. EDLER: O.K Thank You. TRUSTEE KRL~PSKI: So we're going to Table this then, overatlwe'r~ not going to vote on this tonight. We're going to contact- the ~epartment of State, and the DEC and see. what they have to say a~out th~s. Is there anyone else who would like to speak on this, in favor or against? MR. MUIER: I'm one of the town's neighbcms, Boh Muier. We uss the public beach, the one. that's been eroded. We just hope that whate~er is done will help protectthat also. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.K. Thank you. Now suppose the state comes through and says, you need an extra one? TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: That's w~t we're sa~ing in terms cf what you just said. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: About the public beach. MR. EDLER: You mean if cn Taylor? TRUSTRF. HOLZAPFEL: Yeah. MR. EDLER: If you look at the way that it's written up there, on Taylor's technically on the groin there's only cne. But on the request, and all the discussions you have two. You have two for Tomasini, you have one for Tony, and you have two for me. That actually is only on the gr~in. One for Taylor, two for Tom~ini, one for To~y~. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Stop., are there suppos~ttobe two on Taylor? MR. EDLER: Well the diagram, only calls for one. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well suppose the state looks at it and says it would be effSctive and to protect the public beach there you should use two. MR. EDLER: Well. nobody is going to argue if the state says put another one in. TRUSTEE Kt~UPSKt: O.K. That's just my point, cause this is not an. exact' size. S.ome~ne's gut to make a decision~ based~ c~ e~perienc~ andbased on what they think is going to work. There's no way o~ telling until they are built. MR. EDLER: Well I hope the one's that are saying it works, are better than the one's tha.t made the decision in Westhampton. TRUSTEE Kt~UPSKi: Well hopefully the~ learned from that. That's what We're going on. We're learning too. We've been looking at thes~ for a quite a while. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: Taylor's permit says that he's asking for two'. MR. EDLER: On the actual pe~t that you have? Atright well then John Geidman read it so it's already covered. TRUSTEE HOLZAPPEL: No he's. only showing one. CLERK: His descriptions ar~different than the survey. MR. EDLER: Well it's here some where I read it. Where did two coma from? TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: O.k. What we're suggesting, Mr. Muier's cu~ent is. that one of the beginning of Taylors might protect thatpubticbeach_ to that side.. Do you. know what I'm sasring? That's why-I'm just. trying to find out-, does he want two on' his property or does he just. w~t: one? CLERK: I'm so=fy, I think he wants one, that was my mistake. "Board of Trustees ~r18 _. April 30, 1997 5TR. EDLER: We.'~e trying to improve that whole section o~ beach, becaus~ you. see ho~ sudden the c.hanc3ewas. TRUSTM~ HOLZAPFEL: You know what we're saying.now? MR. EDLRR: Yes, I appreciate that, hut I ~lso think that, I know you have difficulty with~ like the grandfa.t~s Apres1, 50'. Now he Still has 50' but it's not repaired. Now I knc~ it's a tuff~ but when it's a nom repairable lawn, shsuld it not' be pulled out, because I think evener he remains are that. I was t&ikim~with the Army Corp-. oE Engineers, they are upset about groins being done in a navigable area. Butit's right near the entr.ance~ to the inlet,, some peopl~comewithbeatsmayheto the edg~ of it, but we have one that's forever running into them because their are u~der water. But I take into consideration to also a~d groins to the w~st, ils somehow stating that the one's that are no longer grand/f~athers and no longer repairable should be taken out. TRUSTEE KRUP'SKI: I don't know if we. could specify that it be removed, becausa that's somethin~ that we should, ask the state. They would be in a s~rongposition to have th'em remove them. I don't think they gave permission to leave tha~ in it's entirety either. MR. EDLER: Nc but it's still there, that's where, we're getting on the fact that if the groin is bad, wh~do they-keep allowing it there. When you know it's harm~ut~, i~ it's harmful in the first place it shouldbe immediately removed~. So there's 3 or 4 o~ them that when, we the picture for, I took some pictures they were all like But when they go under water, they still create turbulences that can. not allow the flow o~ the sand to co~a into_ the public beach area. that you said that I rememb=z that. It makes sense The stat~wouldbe, since they ownthetancl, they would be in the p~sition to make th~ r~,ove that. We're not in that strong of a position, but they are. MR. MUIER: I don~'t think that last groin the one to tha west, was part of the areas that he wanted to reconstruct. TRUSTEE KR~PSKI: But. I think we made him come in for everything. TRUSTEEHOAZ~FEL: We-shortened the one, this way. Then the othe~ one is angled Out t think. TRUSTEE KRUpSKI: I thought we shortened the longest one. TRUSTEK HOAZAPFEL: Rigkzt and that was that one. But the other angled one is the one 'that starting to deteriorate and stazhing to become non functional. MR. EDLER: But origianlly it was confusing when we w~re there, Bah was with me. Fora while you thought it belonged t~ the prop~rt~ which was not Aprea's, subsequent to the Eield trip, itwas discovered tha~ it was all. on the. Ap=e~ s~. That would bepart of maybe, the coD,~usion'as tc who own~that part±culargro±n. It's still, creating'a ske-lekaL Eo~. TRUSTEKKRLFPSKI: That's true, that's tr~. That's a goo~pciHt. MR. EDLER: A~d even' like tcdaSr, it's coming'out cE th~ southwest, and you can see that there's more discclo=ation to the. water-out towards the buny, indicatinU there's more sand~ there, than. where we have all of the stones. So ohvioumly the same thing as Go. ldsmith, it's pulling' out the sands the~e, and t~ere's no ch~of itl cc~ing back in to repteni~ that be~ch. So I alwa~hopeclt~t through a strange, act' o~ god, it doesn't hit us but it softens gardeners bay estates. Board of Trustees 19 April 30, 1997 TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's a good point, I'll ask the state that. I was 'contacted tonight, just as I was getting3 ready for the meeting, pe~gn/ Dickerson, who wants to do a, som~ students are conta~tin~ me, they work with Cornell COOl~--rativ~Extension c~ eel grass~lanting, this. is about beach grass, but they're tatk~n~ about the eel grass, planting. And I told thom to call Paul Sto~tenbe~, and Pete~· Wenzcel, who would know' good sites to plant eel grass. I'm not familiar enough with the bay bottomenou~h to say, you know tb~ is a good spot, that's a good spot. Butt hat woul~b~ a good caDd~d~te. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL: You might want to contact .... TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. I will call. O.K. thanks I'll call Peggy on that. MR. EDLER: We had. some eel grass~ then all of a sudd~ it startin~ to disappear. TRUSTEE HOLZA~FEL: You saidthat's withi~the l~t 3 oz 4 years? MR. EDLER: Well it's even less than that, and I think an aLLitude has to be taken. TRUSTEE HOLZk~FEL: No, I understand what you. were saying the other day. MR. EDLE~: About some sozt of more atorium, I mean California's a great o~fense to do a/~y, if it helps the eel grass~ because once it goes, you've taken away natures ~iltration an~ stoupingthe s~te~. We go around anduse~ to see a lithe ccl grasses, and I look in the boat, and now it's just bare bottom,. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No that's a good candidate .bec~ it's a pla~e where it will. grow. As opposed, to p~ttin~ it somewhere where it never' grew anyway, and it's never going to grow no m~tte~ what they plant. MR. EDLERi: Well it has a certain nutrient ~actorin the groun~ ~ru~.~ so many yea~s the. oyster co~y was out there. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well there's a lot oE environmental ~actors that makes it want to grow there. 51R. MUIER~: Well how long. has all those butkheadsbee~ the~e? When were they put in histozicatty? MR. EDLF~R: The one with the tall ~roin w~s~, with Tony, went in the 60's, near the end o~ 61. With wexter's. MR. MUIER: And what did the shoreline look li~e he~ore the bulkhm~d? MR. EDLER: The shoreline ran in a straight line, 45' out from the property line, it had, ~hen we built the b~l~ead, imagine that. you had a flat b~ch tkat we~t about 30' or more. ~eet then you started to slope down. In me~ high it's 45~ up, I could keep a reqular haymen boat on roll on the be~ch~ EVen 10' out EEo~ the but~J~e~ still up on high. water, and t~e~ter never eve~. cam~ near it. Anctth~n. about Tomasinidra~his Eeet, an~ that one r~aver went in ~t the on~ hidden, in the g~c~ is the one~that To~'s. There is a whole return that ~oes almost to the house. And th~Tom~s~woulclr~t cooperate, ~nd there was a return p~t. into the ground, and it almost goes to Tomasini'shouse. It goes a~ound, the~ benc~az~d_up o~to ttze road. But. Bob will tell youth~tthe rosxl end~ a~ th~b~ach. The. water side oE Tailor's. MR. MILLER: The bulk/leadzui~g ha~quite an effect on the beach did/l't it, plus oz mi~us.. I think..th~big thing~ was we~ be,,~nt the property and he wide,ed the e~tra~c~ into qarde~ezs b~w3. He volunteered to pay ~or the extra exte~sio~, which I don_'t know, 50' or something, John? MR. EDT.~: I think it was ever~ longer than~ that. I think at the time that was even in the 70's, I think it was that he said he was Board of Trustees ~ 10 April 30, 1997 extending, cut it out and dredge it out, make it wider, and at the same time put in all fixed groin. MR. MUIER: It's a set point, the deterioration cE the beach. It's the Az~x~ Corp. of engineers decision. It's a 7 Point deterioration from the beach. It's much further out, than arr~ of the otP~r shore ame~ in the swirling. Primarily ~rom the gardeners bay one, but then aggravated by wexlers other one in front o~ t/~is TRUSTRR KRU~SKt: Yes I think we cam~. to that conclusicnwhenwe were up there, a year or so ago. But that was basically... MR. EDLER: But we had the buLkhe~an~ the~ ne~ ~hang~ after being put iht hey had a nice comfortable shc~e.. One wherem~ grandson., only 7 years a~o, he was about 35 feet out with his friend, Collin Thornhitl, on the line. So that' you always had, even after all the bulkhead, you had this splash. It would com~upmaybe a~d barricade, and th~n slowly it woutd~knlil~up, because each ~ it would come audbuild it's little mound~. A~d the next time a little more. The mounds would still would keep going till they ~all right back to 45' out. So the bulkhe~as were moved back so the spt~sh area and the serge could last and hit a ce=rain point as you see ~rom by my barn. EVen in the last week, not the last one, but the previous one, in the mi~dteof Tony's it made a 7" drought, just in the modern storm because of the impact, as John was saying, there's nc way we can mo~e the droughts down, once they put themup. The impact is descending in all directions, but the wind is always going to drive it from east to west. Till you get to that one stone jetty, where y~u see the silhouette that it still gathers the same~ on that natural... TRUSTEE KRUPSKt: I think we shoul~try to close th~s out. You might, if the state appr~es something like this~ they might ~ something that, and this. is bas~don past e~pe=ience on the s~un~. Something that's atittle bit different in configuration as. far as the angle of the jettie~s. It might be a different ~n,,l~r, one mor~ or one less. They might requi~e yoga to armor it with stone also. That's from our expe~ience, what they' requLre~ion the sound. So just bare that in mind. Mayb~ I shouldn't go any further the~ t~hat. We usually don't, when they make suggestions like that the bo~d is usuall~ not inclined to disagree with them and say no, it should be one more or one less. This speck or that speck. It's usually the concept that's being agreed on. The. specifics as far as, what siz~e boulders to armor it with Or something, if they're going to make that decision, we're not going to quiver over that. MR. E~LER: I wouldn't quiver in my limited exp~mience' with w~h~t I simply betie~e they cou/kddm. If I had a di~fere/lt thought, I'm going to tell them. TRUSTEE Ki~JPS~i: I don't blame you, I.'m just sayin~ that that's been our experience on the sound., that's how they o~era%~ so. TRUSTEE G~,RRRLL: Not really the sound or the bay, we attend' all the time, hearings on structures and~ be~ch alc~ the entire US coast, and people are taking a verF different view, towa~dsgr~in~, bu~g now, than they-did 15, even i0, 15 year~ a~. The studies tod~Ir indicate that hulkheading to, lay is gene~13~y a mistake an~ it has. to be. The grades count fo= a great deal, the hard~n~ s~~ cause more tzuuble than they are wo~, and that's the ge~e~=liZatiou. But the point is the state and the peoplework on these things. They do mo~e than textbooks.. They study they go b~ experience, we tr~ to learn as much as we can. TRUSTR~ F~UPSKI: It's possihlewe can't p~omis~ any t~g but. Board of Trustees <~y21 ~.~ April 30, 1997 MR. EDLER: We're not salring no to anything they say, I think that there are some wise ones along the way, in some cases.. The~ets some reason why the waters all take on that particular spot. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's what we always say m~ke~rnaturebat~ta~t. TRUSTEE KING: Were at the top of the hatti~g o~der. TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL.: I think, we'll have to cc~r~ b~k to it, we'll ha~e another round. TRUSTEE Fd~UPSKI: Can I have a motion t~ recess the hearing? A motion was made. b~ TRUSTP~ HOLZA~EL and sec. o~de~, by TRHST~SI~ GARRELL to recess the hearing till trust~es he~s~ ~r~m the state.. Aprea should be removed Erom ask the st~t~ if non ~unctio~al 9~oins are to be removed. Ask for Fred And~ea's t~ comment in w~i.ting. ALL AYES. !6.Docko, Inc. on behalf of REYNOLDS DU PONT requests a Wetland Permit to constr~ct 4' X 50' fixad tim her pier, a 3' X 14' hing~ ramp, and an 8' X 20' float to be secured to four pilings and install six tie-off pilings. Located Peninsula Ave., Fishers Ist~nd. SCTM 910-3-19. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Jim you looked at this? TRUSTEE KING: Yup! Dockad tb_Eough the. whole a~ea. TRUSTEE..KRLV~SKI: O.K. TRUSTF~ KINe: Everything~'s bigger on FisheE's Island. TRUSTEE KRU~SKI: Alrighk, do I have a motion to close the hearin~. A motion was made by TRUS~KROLZA~FELand. seco~8~b~TRUST~E GARRELL t~ close the hearing:. ALL AYES. A motion was. made by TRUSTEE~I:KIN~ and~ sec~k~/TRUS~E~HOLZA~Ii to approve the abov~applicatio~ as descrY. ALT. AYES. V. RESOLUTIONS: 1. DANIEL. LOUIS of Co,nell Cooperati~ Exkensionre~ permission to use a mechanic~l ha~v~sh~rto-tak~botkemsam~les various creeks in town waters the bay. A motion was made byTRUSTRP~ HOLZAPFEL and seconded byTRUSTEEKING to approve the above re~st, TRUSTEE HCkLZAR~ELwili call when and'where. ALL AYES. VI. MOORINGS: 1. FRA~KLYNN requests~ a mo~in~ in Tow~Creek. in front of his. house, tackle to be used is of cancelled mo~rin~~ ~60, ~or a 22' sail boat. A motion wasmadabyTRUSTEEiKRURSKI and seconded byTRUS~EE- HOLZAPFEL to apProv~ ~be abo~e~ application as describ~do ALL AYES. 2. JOSEPH RASO requesks stake 94 at the end of So. Harbor Rd, Richmond Creek ~o~ a 12' Sunfish. A motion was made byTRUSTEE KRUPSKI and seconded by TR~STEE HOLZAPFEL to approve ~he above applica~o~ as desczib~d~. ALL AYES. 3. HERBERT ERN~ requests st~ke 96 at the end o~ So. Harbor Rd, Richmond Creek for a 16' sail boat. A motion was madebyTRDSTEEKRURSKI and se. condsd~ by TRUSTEE%GARRELL to approve the above application as dasher%bed. ALL AYES., Board of Trustees ~2 ~" April 30, 1997 4. PETER WB~KER requests a mooring in Little Creak for a 22' Aqua-port with a 175 Ib musl~oom~. Access: Public A motion was made by TRUS. TR.R KRU~SKI anat. secon~e~ b~ TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to approve the above moorin~ as described, with subject to ~or Aft. 5. KEVIN CANDE requests, a moorin~ in Hall's C~eek Bertram with a 200 lb mushroom. Access~: Own property. A motion was by TRUSTEE. HOLZAPFEL. and seconde~ ~¥ TRUSTEE KI~ to Table the abov~ application, due to soun~%ngs fro~ location to mo~th of creek at low water. ALL AYES. 6. KATHY BECKER requests a mooring~ in Narrow River ~or a 30' sail boat wit~ 250Lb mushroom. Access: Public'. A motion was made by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFBL and seco~d~xl by TRUSTEE KII~G to approve the above mooring ~ ~escrihed~ ALL AY~. 7. JOE MELLY reques~ts a moorin~ in Little Cre~k Columbia with a 150Ih mushroom. Access: Public A motion was made by TRUSTEE KR~PSKI and seconde~l by TRUSTEE HOLZAPFEL to approve the ~bove moori~, subject to For & Aft. ALL AYES. MEETING ADJOURNE~ AT 9: 00 P.M. RESPECTFULLY SUBMI.T~. BT ~ . . HUBBARD, CLERK RECEIVED AND FILED BY nm DATEL~[~I~7 HOUR o1'~1 To~ ~erk, To~ of Sout~Id