HomeMy WebLinkAboutTR-03/22/2000Albert J. Krupski, President
James King, Vice-President
Henry Smith
Artie Foster
Ken Poliwoda
Town Hall
53095 Route 25
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971-0959
Telephone (631) 765-1892
Fa~ (631) 765-1366
BOARD OF TOWN TRUSTEES
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
MINUTES
MARCH 22, 2000
PRESENT WERE:
Albert J. Krupski, Jr.
Jim King, Vice President
Artie Foster, Trustee
Henry Smith, Trustee
Ken Poliwoda, Trustee
CALLED MEETING TO ORDER
PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
NEXT FIELD INSPECTION: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 at 11:00 am
NEXT TRUSTEE MEETING: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 at 7:00 pm
WORKSESSION: 6:00 pm
I. MONTHLY REPORT: The Trustees monthly report for March 2000: A
check for $3,819.04 was forwarded to the Supervisor's Office for the
General Fund.
II. PUBLIC NOTICES: Public Notices are posted on the Town Clerk's
Bulletin Board for review.
III. AMENDMENTS/WAIVERS/CHANGES
1. Proper-T Services on behalf of WILLIAM FELIX requests an
Amendment to Permit ~552 for the addition of a 16' extension to the
existing walkway, that was originally applied for. Located: 760 Oak
Street, Cutchogue. $CTM #136-1-39
TRUSTEE KING moved to deny the request as the Trustees feel there
is adequate dock space already over Town waters following the
previous Amendment, TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL AYES
2. Pat Moore on behalf of ROBERT M. SCHUPLER requests a Waiver
to construct a 16' X 48' deck onto an existing house. Located: 3635
Wells Road, Peconic. SCTM %86-2-11
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to approve the request for a deck based on
planting plan for a 50' buffer area, TRUSTEE POLIWODA seconded. ALL
AYES
Board of Trustees
2 ~farch 22, 2000
3. Joseph Enrico on behalf of BLUEPOINTS COMPANY requests an
Amendment to Permit #4276 to add 5 piles to existing shellfish trays
and add a 4' X 20' ramp and a 6' X 16' float with 2 mooring piles.
Located: foot of Love Lane, Mattituck. SCTM #140-1-23.1
TRUSTEE KING moved to approve with condition that new plans are
submitted showing the 4' X 20' ramp on west side to a 3' X 5'
platform as this is a commercial facility, TRUSTEE SMITH seconded.
ALL AYES
4. S.E.L. Permits on behalf of PATRICK KELLY requests an Amendment
to Permit #71-2-6 to replace existing dock with a 4' X 6'
cantilevered platform, a 3' X 12' ramp and a 6' X 20' float, and to
Transfer this permit from John C. Campbell to Patrick Kelly.
Located: 215 Harbor Lights Drive, Southold. SCTM %71-2-6 TRUSTEE
POLIWODA moved to approve the request, TRUSTEE SMITH seconded. ALL
AYES
5. ROBERT & ELIZABETH SKINNER requests an Amendment to Permit #382
to move a 3' X 18' ramp and an 8' X 20' float straight out from dock
instead of in "L" confirmation. Located: 615 Southold Drive,
Mattituck. SCTM #106-11-22
TRUSTEE KING approved the request, TRUSTEE SMITH seconded. ALL AYES
6. Amy Martin on behalf of CHARLES BRIENZA requests an Amendment
to Permit %5090 to install armor stone all across the entire beach
front as per DEC recommendation. Located: 1240 Latham Lane, Orient.
SCTM #15-9-1.5
TRUSTEE SMITH moved to approve the request, TRUSTEE POLIWODA
seconded. ALL AYES
7. WILLIAM & CHRISTINE EISENREICH requests a one year extension
to Permit #4889 to construct a single family dwelling with sanitary
system and driveway with condition that a 30' non-turf,
non-disturbance buffer be placed at top of bank landward. Located:
805 Bay Shore Road, Greenport. SCTM ~53-3-10
TRUSTEE SMITH moved to approve the request, TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES
8. Matthew Ham on behalf of WILLIAM D. REED requests a one year
extension to Permit #4883 to construct a single family dwelling,
sanitary system, water, driveway, patio and garage. Located: ROW off
Peninsula Road, Fishers Island. SCTM ~10-3-12
TRUSTEE KING approved the request, TRUSTEE SMITH seconded. ALL AYES
IV. PUBLIC HEARINGS:
THIS IS A PUBLIC HEARING IN THE MATTER OF THE FOLLOWING APPLICATIONS
FOR PERMITS UNDER THE WETLANDS ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD. I
HAVE AN AFFIDAVIT OF PUBLICATION FROM THE SUFFOLK TIMES. PERTINENT
CORRESPONDENCE MAY BE READ PRIOR TO ASKING FOR COMMENTS FROM THE
PUBLIC.
Board of Trustees
'.March 22, 2000
PLEASE KEEP YOUR COMMENTS ORGANIZED AND BRIEF
LESS T~ POSSIBLE
1. En-Consultants Inc., on behalf of ANDREW MOORE & KAREN
SILVERIA request a Wetland Permit to construct an "L" shaped fixed
dock, consisting of a 4' x 90' fixed catwalk, elevated a min. of
3'5" above marsh, a 3' x 16' ramp and a 6' x 20' float secured by (2)
2 pile dolphins, and construct a 100+'vinyl retaining wall to be tied
into existing bulkheads to north and south and backfill with
approx. 100 c.y. of clean sand to be trucked in from upland source.
Located: 515 South Drive, Mattituck. SCTM ~106-11-21i
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone who would like to speak in favor of
the application?
ROB HERRMANN: Of En-Consultant on behalf of the applicants. I
would just note that should read a timber retaining wall rather than
a vinyl retaining wall the hearing was opened last month and on March
17 th ,It wasn't March 17 it was a Monday that week March 13 I met
at the site with Jim King and we resounded the site and basically try
to come up with a pure line that would tie through the adjacent
property owned by Shawn and Don Williamstock and then also based
on the extension that was just approved per Skinner on the other
side. This is the plan the revised plan.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
ROB HERRMANN: This plan is based on the meeting we had with
TRUSTEE KING and also the adjacent property owners Shawn and Don
Williamson and Mr. Skinner was there as well. We are working with the
locations.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I was wondering why Mr. Skinner was there, now I
found out. I am listening Rob.
ROB HERRMANN: There is a portion of the property that does not have
inter-tidal marsh located on it. So we are restricting location of
.the dock within that area which of course brings up the problem if
you are extending the dock out at the same angle as the existing
docks to either side you would be crossing the property lines so that
was a concern that is why Mr. Williams was here as well. He and his
wife are the owners of that property and provided us with this letter.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are you going to read that?
ROB HERRMANN: You can go ahead.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We Shawn and Dawn Williams own property known as
405 South Drive Mattituck which is located north of and adjacent to
that owned by Andrew Moore and Karen Silveria. We are aware of and
have no objection to Mr. Moore and Ms. Silveira proposal to
construct a dock. Since it will be located less than 15 feet from
our mutual property line. As specifically depicted on the project
plan prepared by the consultants last revised March 22,2000.
ROB HERRMANN: I believe you already you should already have also
in your file a letter from Robert and Elizabeth Skinner giving their
consent to tie the proposed retaining wall into their bulkhead
return. If you don't I have a copy of that letter as well.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Why don't you give us a copy.
ROB HERRMANN: Otherwise it should be consistent with what Jim and
I discussed.
Board of Trustees 4 ~"~arch 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KING: It looks about what we talked about. I just miss read
when you said "L" shape fixed dock. Which threw me off.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
TRUSTEE KING: So it is not. It is a straight out dock.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I was going to ask that.
TRUSTEE KING: In the description it says "L" shaped doCk.
ROB HERRMANN: Well that is because the way the float is positioned.
TRUSTEE KING: Okay.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But it is not an "L" shaped fixed dock.
ROB HERRMANN: No No No fixed dock with an "L" below.
TRUSTEE KING: Looked good when we were in the field.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What kind of a thin line.
TRUSTEE KING: Where you tie in here Rob. Did you take any
measurements on those returns north and south returns. Where it is
going to tie into them, from the seaward side.
ROB HERRMANN: Where the retaining wall is going to tie in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right.
TRUSTEE KING: Well if you didn't, I did. I will put them on here.
ROB HERRMANN: Well it should tie with the face.
TRUSTEE KING: No there actually returns. We want that fill into
that toe as close as we can get it.
ROB HERRMANN: Okay I see what you mean.
TRUSTEE KING: And the one on the North is 5' from the seaward face
of that. Mr. Skinner's measure 21' See what I mean.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure. Thanks that is a good detail map,
ROB HERRMANN: Jim could I have the measurements again.
TRUSTEE KING: On the southern return Mr. Skinner's is 21' from the
seaward, outboard site of it in land. And on Shawn and Dawn's it
is 5'.
ROB HERRMANN: Okay thanks.
TRUSTEE KING: That keeps it pretty close to that toe. That is what
we wanted to do there.
ROB HERRMANN: When I scaled (change tape) it is just less than 15'
TRUSTEE KING: My tape measure said 21.
ROB HERRMANN: Okay I see what you are talking about. So basically
it as tied into that landward extension.
TRUSTEE KING: It is just inside the last pole about that far.
ROB HERRMANN: Okay that is fine.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any call for replanting? With the title
marsh there.
TRUSTEE KING: I think that the marsh will fill in. When the wall is
put in. It is going to stop that stuff from slopping off into the
top of it. I think what will happen is that spartina in here, when
it is all kind of covered up from what is falling in. I think once
that retaining wall is here I think that will fill in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But how about.
TRUSTEE KING: It would not even be a bad idea to try to rake some of
that sand off there. Really.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What about remediation of water coming from your
plan.
ROB HERRMANN: It is tough.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have dry walls on that house?
ROB HERRMANN: We looked at the site. We looked at that issue with
Jim. There really is not the entire embankment. All the way up
Board of Trustees
~arch 22, 2000
except for that one slay area has been left completely natural.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But some of it is coming off.
ROB HERRMANN: There is kind of almost a ski scrap coming down the
William's property. So we kind of hashed it over when we were there,
but we could not really come up with something. Even if you cover
that one area there still basically that whole (cannot understand)
coming down from the Williams side.
TRUSTEE KING: It would be nice if we could plant. I do not know
what we could plant there to hold it there?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ivy.
TRUSTEE KING: I do not know?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ivy or finka or something. Anything to hold
that soil.
TRUSTEE KING: Because Mr. Moore was very, he is very
accommodating. He would like to do some stuff there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is his bank he should want to save it.
TRUSTEE KING: He really does not know what to do.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We will put the recommendation in that he should
try to vegetate that bank.
ROB HERRMANN: He said that he would. Well he said his wife would.
TRUSTEE KING: Doesn't that pitch all the way from South Drive all
the way down.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yeah but you can do a little more vegetation to slow
that water up before it actual hits that.
TRUSTEE KING: But that is a lot of water.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment on this application? In
favor or against. All right make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to Approve the application of
Andrew Moore & Karen Silveira for the bulkhead, fixed dock, and the
ramp and floats as on the diagram, and to approve those measurements
on the two returns, that the bulkhead ties into.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So that is the same length dock?
TRUSTEE KING: This is the inside line drawn between the neighboring
docks.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because that number did not change.
ROB HERRMANN: The dimensions did not change - No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay.
All in favor. ALL AYES
ROB HERRMANN: Thank you.
2. En-Consultants Inc., on behalf of JAMES MIHALIOS requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a 77+' timber retaining wall with (2) 12'
angled returns and truck in from an upland source approx, 150 c.y. of
clean sand to be used as backfill and planted with Cape American
Beach Grass. Located: 640 Lloyd's Lane Mattituck. SCTM #99-3-4.1
(NOTE: APPLICANT WISHES TO POSTPONE THIS UNTIL APRIL MEETING.)
3. En-Consultants Inc., on behalf of JOSEPH CORNACCHIA requests a
Wetland Permit to relocate existing dock, consisting of a 3'X 14'
ramp and (3) 4' X 20' floats with (7) 8" in diameter pilings, approx.
9' to the south onto owners parcel from owners parcel and remove (2)
Board of Trustees '~ ~ 6 ~-~larch 22, 2000
8" mooring piles and (1) two-pile dolphin. Located: 635 Kimberly
Lane. Southold. SCTM #70-13-20.4 (NOTE: APPLICANT WISHES TO
POSTPONE THIS UNTIL APRIL.)
4. Gary 01sen on behalf of NEIL SC~LUSSEL requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a single family dwelling. Located: Stillwater
Ave., Cutchogue. SCTM #136-2-7 & 8 NOTE: APPLICANT WISHES TO
POSTPONE THIS UNTIL APRIL.)
5. En-Consultants Inc., on behalf of EDNA RICHARDS requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a fixed timber dock, consisting of a 4'X
58' fixed catwalk elev. 3.5' above marsh, a 3'X 14' ramp and a 6'X
20' float secured with (2) 8" diameter pilings, and steps 2'X 4'
landward of existing stone wall. Located: 2300 Broadwaters Rd.,
Cutchogue. SCTM#lll-i-1 NOTE: APPLICANT WISHES TO POSTPONE THIS
UNTIL APRIL.)
6. WARREN CROON requests a Wetland Permit to construct a
retaining wall 16 1/2" in height from property line on east side
along approx. 64 1.f. leaving an opening to access the water, and
plant beach grass on site as indicated on new plans dated and
received March 22, 2000. Located: 2500 Ole Jule Lane,
Mattituck. SCTM#122-4-12
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in
favor of the application? Alright, they propose to keep the existing
retaining wall in its present state except for a few modifications.
The retaining wall is described in the application and will not
extend to the neighbor's bulkhead on the west end. It will extend
from the property line on the east side approx. 64 linear ft. leaving
an opening to the water. They intend to stabilize the ground
adjacent to the wall by careful placement of beach grass or equal
substitute as needed. In addition they will create a trough, also
known as a french drain, which will begin 6' upland from the wall
as shown on the drawing. I think that's what Pickerall and I
discussed on the phone.
TRUSTEE KING: Chris seemed to think that it would work.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Did Chris Pickerall approve that plan?
TRUSTEE KING: This was his design.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That's standard on a bulkhead repair as a non-turf
buffer. Do you have an¥...Oh I see this cross-section.
TRUSTEE KING: It's going to be like burmed-up.
TRUSTEEE KRUPSKI: So what's going to cover that though?
WARREN CROON: Chris was saying that it would be best to just let
natural vegetation move in and stay off it and create the trough.
The center of the trough would be about 3 1/2' out and then just stay
out of there and let natural vegetation go back in there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That would be the best to protect your property.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I think there should be something planted there
just to give it a kick start.
WARREN CROON: He felt that the corner, where the return is, needed to
definitely be planted with beach grass. The other end is already
planted. I think he's more concerned with drainage prior to the wall
and the rear of the house has drywells.
TRUSTEE SMITH: It looks good to me.
Board of Trustees 7 ~,~Brch 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KING: I don't see why it wouldn't work.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No, it should work. Especially where the bank area
isn't that big so it should accommodate the rainfall.
TRUSTEE SMITH: It's a good project actually.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Did you see it Artie?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Quite some time ago.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comment in favor of or against
the application? Do I have a motion to close the hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KING: I'll make a motion to Approve the application of Mr.
Croon based on the new plans and drawings.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
7. J.M.O. Consulting on behalf of FRANCES E. NIELSEN Wetland
Permit to construct a deck, pool, patio, retaining wall, pool
equipment shed, backwash, leaching pool and regrade area of pool.
Located: East End Rd., Fishers Island. SCTM#5-1-8
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak on
behalf of the applicant? Jim, you looked at this? It's on a bluff
there, isn't it?
TRUSTEE KING: It's really insane to put that pool there. We looked
at this in the field and the recommendation was to put the pool here
where the old deserted tennis court is. This is out. They shouldn't
even think about putting a pool there. I would deny this and
recommend placement of the pool ...
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I flew over there in November and looked at it.
TRUSTEE KING: You remember seeing it Artie? There's an old
deserted tennis court as you look out at the water and there's a
tennis court on the left. There's a real long steep bank and a huge
freshwater wetlands. I wouldn't recommend this at all.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Glenn is not here. Do you want to Table it?
TRUSTEE KING: It's just not the place for a pool.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure. It looks like it would really destabilize
the bluff. Did they give a cross-section at all? Is there any
comment on this application? Do I have a motion to close the
hearing?
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We have a motion to Table, do I have a second?
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded. ALL AYES
8. Proper-T Permit Services on behalf of PHILIP ALBRIGHT requests
a Wetland Permit to construct a fixed open walkway 4' x 40', a hinged
ramp 4' x 16' and a floating dock 6' x 20' with two 2 pile dolphins
and construct a one family dwelling with on site sewage system, well
and detached three car garage. Located: 4483 Wells Road, Southold.
SCTM # 86-1-9.6
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak on
behalf of this application?
JIM FITZGERALD: For Mr. Albright, as you know this was carried over
from last month. At which meeting there was concern by the Board.
About the water depth and the extension of the dock into the creek.
Board of Trustees ...... ' 8 ~'~arch 22, 2000
We examined that on Monday, and found another location which appears
to be suitable. We have the revised sketch map pending the really
nice map and shows the written description.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you want to pass them down.
When I went out with Mr. Fitzgerald in the field. We measured
across, we went further down that channel to the north. That was dug
out illegally north of Spring Lane I do not know thirty years ago
maybe even thirty five years ago. There is a lot deeper water down
here, I wouldn't say, we measured 29" but I cannot say that it is an
accurate measurement. Because we had the full moon working the
tide. You also had quite a bit of water built up in the bay now
because of the wind, But there is a lot more water here than there
where it was originally proposed. So we can make a shorter structure
out of it 29' dock well he is saying actually 60' because it will
come upland further.
JIM FITZGERALD: There is a little burm at the top of the bank and
then it goes down and goes up again. That is all marshy and
phragmites in there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay
JIM FITZGERALD: So that gets it up to the burm soil.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So then it will be 29' out into the water which
gives him more water depth and there is no floater raft. It is just
steps down to the water. It is a little narrow there than it is over
here. But there is better water. You are going out a lot less
further distance.
JIM FITZGERALD: It is less than 1/3 of the bay with the creek.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: At the end of Richmond Creek you know where Spring
Lane is - right down there. Any other comment on this application.
The house is out of our jurisdiction. Do I have a motion to close
the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I will
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Second
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The description for a fixed dock 4x60 with steps to
the water on both sides, four foot wide steps at the end on either
side. The dock will extend into the water 29' from the edge of the
marsh and nothing can be placed at the end of it like a boat because
that would restrict the distance of more than 1/3 across the end of
the creek. The proposed house and garage is outside of our
jurisdiction. However, there should be no disturbance to anything
within our jurisdiction during the house construction of 75 feet from
the wetland line. I want to make that clear because sometimes the
house is out of our jurisdiction but then the people take it to mean
that they can do whatever they want. They do not realize they
cannot clear within 75' but they do because they think they can. I
want to make that clear from the outset. I made a motion, is there a
second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Comment on the construction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: To keep it minimal as possible maybe less than 6"
pilings.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Six inch pilings?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No greater than 6".
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No greater than 6" pilings.
Board of Trustees .... 9 ~arch 22, 2000
JIM FITZGERALD: Didn't mention that before. Last time we talked
about a dock.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right.
JIM FITZGERALD: That applies, right. The last hearing or the one
before I do not mean this one. I mean the one that you just approved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Right, you mean the one in Mattituck?
JIM FITZGERALD: The question of low profile and pilings size did
not come up. That is fine as long as.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is a different creek and a lot more water going
through there. Where this is the back end of the creek and there
really isn't wave or current.
JIM FITZGERALD: Oh - okay. I did not know.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No we try to minimize where we can. Safety is a
big concern.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA:: There is no reason for putting 10" pilings in the
head of a creek.
JIM FITZGERALD: No I agree. I am just trying to find out whether it
always applies.TRUSTEE KING: No we are not trying to do one size fits
all. No. TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'll make a motion is there a second.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Second. ALL AYES
9. Proper-T Services on behalf of WEST LAKE A$$OC requests a
Wetland Permit to dredge the entrance channel and adjoining portions
of West Lake to 3' below MLW, place a total of approx. 600 c.y. of
dredge spoil on indicated sites, maintenance dredge to same
conditions as necessary to max.of 3 addition times during the next
10 years. Located: 505 Cedar Point Drive West, Southold. SCTM
990-1-11.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would to sPeak in behalf
of the application.
JIM FITZGERALD: Again, for the WEST LAKE ASSOC. I think some of
you know this project has been applied for a number of times and the
Trustee's have approved it. At least once. In 1986 or 1990 the
Trustee's have inspected and I am sure if there was anything near low
waters.if there was a problem with it. The question of the property
owner's owning water front property on West Lake being anxious to be
able to get their small craft in and out, of the lake at any tide.
Without being caught in or caught out at some time. They don't care
to be in or out. The dredging has been done before and is apparently
is part of the construction of some of the bulkhead areas. Which
line the channel. I spoke today to Mrs. Greenfield who is a
property owner. Of one of the properties adjoining me and adjoining
the bulkheaded entrance, which is the property containing the
bulkhead and she is very concerned about the possible effect that
dredging on the existing bulkhead. I suggested to her that would be
a matter that the association would have to take up with the
contractor and insure that the contractor was able to determine the
appropriate dredging technique in the area. Whether or not the
bulkhead would be adversely affected and certainly have insurance to
protect against the possible (cannot understand) of the dredging.
Although personally I think that if the bulkhead when it was
installed. Was installed in accordance with the generally accepted
standards. We should be able to make the water depth in the channel
the same way it was when the bulkhead was installed.
Board of Trustees '~- 10
March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Before we are going to comment. I am going to ask
if there is any other comment in favor or against this
application.
My name is Dai Moy my wife and I own the property abutting the
channel.
DAI MOY: Our biggest concern is that 10 feet of our bulkhead.
This bulkhead we put it in many years ago. Since that time we have
resheath the entire bulkhead. Which is a great great expense.
This is to protect our property which is true. But also so people can
get their boats in and out. Since the forty years we have been
there. That channel has been dredged six or seven times already.
Every time they dredge it in one year, by the end of the season, it
is filled up again. There is no way for them to keep that silt out
from that channel. Our main concern is damage to the bulkhead.
Because ~f there is any damage to the bulkhead who is going to pay
for it? If anything happens this year the damage will show up next
year, or the following year. Also people are going in and out of
channel. At most high tide - mid-tide you can run a small boat in
and out. Larger boat you cannot. I have a small boat and run it in
and out at high tide and mid-tide, either up coming up or going
down. If you are conscious of using the property you are 'not going
to run it that fast. You will be able to get in and out. In the
past in fact there was one incident where a boat ran over a
swimmer. That is another concern of ours. Also I would like to
comment that if you ldo grant this permit, for only one year,to see
what happens the following year. Because I assure you this is not
going away and will close up every year. And that it will have to be
done over and over again. Unless, they find the means of getting
rid of all that silt. Also the last comment I would like to make
that if this permit is granted, we would like to know when it is due
to rake so that we can watch over it.
That is it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comment.
My name is Ginny Harms.
GINNY HARMS: I live on West Lake. We do not live on the bay. I
have spoken to most of the people that live around the lake.
Unfortunately, we were not prepared for our conditions. So they are
not here tonight to speak their minds. But we are concerned that we
can not get out, because we can not enjoy our property. If it does
continue to deteriorate it will be just a mosquito haven marsh land.
I understand Mr. Weinstein concern and we have said that we will
get insurance. We will do everything we can to insure that they are
not disturbed. We have about a dozen people living around the lake
that are very concerned that we are not able to enjoy our property.
That is our only concern. Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comment?
WILLIAM RILEY: Property owner 1075 Cedar Point Drive on the lake
itself. At low tide, I do not know if you have seen it.
at low tide. There is absolutely no water that comes into the
lagoon. It is a trickle if anything. So when you say we can get out
at near low tide it is impossible. Even mid-tide
we are lucky to have a very high tide, three foot of water. Lucky to
have that much. There is a lot of silt built up in the lagoon
because it is stagnant. Nothing can get out. It is destroying the
Board of Trustees .... 11 ~'~'~March 22, 2000
marine life within the lagoon itself and there is no boating that can
be done. Anywhere near low tide. The fish, the clams and everything
are not as abundant as it used to be. Just getting clogged up more
and more mosquitos are breeding in the lagoon itself.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comment. Just a point of
information we were out on a board inspection on last Tuesday - eight
days ago, at an unusually low tide so we were able to do a good
comprehensive inspection of the site.
BOB KUHME: I also live on the lake, property owner. My only
concern is that there is another piece of water approximately several
hundred yards east of our lake. That has been over the past several
years I understand has now been closed. It used to be opened to the
bay. And that now is and actually fronts our front yard almost.
That does have a lot of mosquitos. It is totally enclosed now you
cannot gain any excess whatsoever to the bay or anywhere. It is
enclosed body of water. I am afraid that is what exactly is going to
happen to this lake as well.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is that Mid-way Inlet?
BOB KUHME. I believe so.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Yes ma'am.
MARCELLE GREENFIELD: On the other side of the bulkheading. I
have the other bulkheading. First of all it is salt water and I do
not know how we can breed mosquitoes in that salt water, when
we do have quite a flush. If you notice it goes by very fast.
At one time my husband thought he would like put a window in. He
thought we could generate enough electricity from the current that
come in and out. I am not sure that the other area that was blocked
off. Whether it has double bulkheading. Like we do. That the
Moy's and I maintain very well. I am going to make a brief
statement and I have a couple of questions. I have very grave
concerns and questions regarding the maintenance of my bulkheading
and property, which is directly affected by the
proposed dredging of West Lake. Could you please give me an idea.
Of what studies have been made to direct the changes that may occur.
As the result of the dredging pro and con. The impact on my
bulkheading, my property, and my beach, and the environment. Please
could you explain the potential change in the water flow that will
occur. Possibly lead to flooding or the change in the configuration
of my beach and the bulkheading.
As trustee's who will likely make the decision. I have the
confidence that you will be there to protect me and my property.
Change tape.
If any of this proposal goes through with your approval. And that
the beach and surrounding properties should be maintained
significantly and the same. As Trustee's if you do grant this
permit, it is encumbrance upon you to insure full and (cannot
understand) against any and all damage to my property, my premises
including the bulkheading, the beach and the surrounding property.
That this can be taken care of for a sufficient period of time. Will
this be covered by a bond or insurance or both? I have the following
questions? Why was I given one day notice. I signed for my letter,
my certified letter, yesterday. That was the first day I got it and
was given notice of this proceeding and of the proposed dredging. Why
was I not given the courtesy of sufficient notice to prepare for this
Board of Trustees ..... 12
<~March 22, 2000
hearing. I need time to consult a legal and technical people to
determine the existing conditions and potential problems. I might
have (cannot understand) what my opinions are? I would ask you to
consider a postponement to accord me this courtesy. The news is a
very serious business. Next question - has anyone carefully examined
my lower bulkheading which stands on the beach at the neck of the bay
front. Which is considerable older than the one I installed in the
front and along the canal. And while it is still functioning who
will guarantee it's condition as the result of the dredging. What if
it gives way and caves in?. Next question - I do not understand the
plan, unfortunately I am not able to read it carefully. Given no time
to have someone help me I ask you please to tell me where is the
dredged spoil to go. Please explain the reason for this allocation as
currently planed and by what agreement. I must apologize for this
fragmented presentation. I must admit (talking) to think this thing
carefully. It has taken me completely by surprise. I am aware as
property owners may of us differ in our needs and expectations. I
have been here long enough to know that it is tough to fight change.
I came here for the pristine serene charm particularly of my area.
Do I want boats turning back and forth into our little lake. Do I
accept strangers who will now have accessibility to come in and out
exploring our charming quite spot and changing our peaceful
environment. Other people have different needs and wish to recreate
our area and make it something else. Can I stop this. I can only
plead for the protection and trust in your good judgement. Thank
you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comments?
NEIGHBOR: I too own a piece of property on the back side of West
Lake. I am on the back north east side by the channel. I have
concerns because I too live there for forty years with my family. It
is when you go to dredge I do not have a bulkhead. The property
seems to lose a little bit every time, I know there is wetlands
behind there but I do not have any bulkhead. That is my concern. I
am not so concerned about the channel being dredged I can understand
all the people want to use their boats. The thing is I do not know
if you are taking the right precautions. On the liabilities of
loosing the properties. That is my main concern. I was wondering
also if you could close this decision until it was at least evaluated
either by the State or the engineer or Army engineer.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Excuse me. Where are you located?
NEIGHBOR: 250 Midway Rd.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'm just trying to find you on the...
NEIGHBOR: I'm the northeast backside of the channel.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay. Thank you.
TRUSTEE SMITH: How are you going to dredge this? By what means are
you proposing?
NEIGHBOR: Excuse me?
TRUSTEE SMITH: What kind of equipment are you going to have to do
the job that you're proposing to do here?
JIM FITZGERALD: It would be a clamshell and/or drag line. Not
hydraulic. Pardon me?
TRUSTEE SMITH: Yeah, but if you don't get permission from Mr. Moy
or this young lady over here, where are you going to put this
equipment?
Board of Trustees ~J 13 ~'March 22, 2000
JIM FITZGERALD: On a barge. The details of the methodology of the
dredging have been discussed with several contractors and they feel
that would like to understand that it's a possibility of it being a
real job before they put a lot of effort into detailing the
methodology. But nobody thinks that it's a problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I'd like to make a few comments before we go any
further though. This Board operates under a number of different Town
Codes and our greatest power comes from the Andros Patent which
grants us Title to the underwater lands in question here. Now this
is a public area, however, we have to conform to the standards in
Chapter 97, one of which is that the operation we Approve will not
substantially weaken or undermine the lateral support of other lands
in the vicinity. I think that should answer the concerns of the
adjacent property owners. We couldn't really Approve anything that
is going to adversely affect your property, such as your bulkhead
falling in. That's only one of our concerns her. That's not to say
that's the only one. I'm looking through the old file here. In 1987
this Board issued a Permit to dredge this channel, 600 yds. out of
this channel, how much is this for.
TRUSTEE SMITH: 600 yds.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay, but the spoil needs to be taken to an upland
source. It's not to be placed on the site. There's one big
difference there. We had a lot of concern when we went out there as
a Board. One of the big concerns was the integrity of the neighbor's
bulkheads. Because, if you dig a hole that size, we were unsure as to
whether those bulkheads could withstand the lack of support of either
side. Our other concern was the spoil area, and the spoil area, the
day we were there, was completely high and dry. The stones in that
area were covered with something black, almost like a tar-like
substance. Is there anyone who lives in there, and the rest of the
beach going to the west was clean, but that one spoil area...
JIM FITZGERALD: You mean on the inside.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On the inside of the inlet. Where the spoil area is
marked, there's an old timber bulkhead that's just sort of hanging on
there. That was all covered with some black, like tar-like. The
stones were. Does anybody have any idea what's going on there?
NEIGHBOR: That used to be a dumping ground for stumps. That farm
field that was back there that they developed with the houses, well I
have a feeling that over the years that it rotted and that is what
was carrying that black muck.
NEIGHBOR 2: That's not muck. That's some sort of a tar that's being
placed, we believe, to shore up those you know, whatever wood is
there to keep it from rotting out.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You mean like a creosote or something?
MR MOY: I believe that originally, it was a freshwater lake. The
developer opened up the channel. Storm water then got in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So, I think we have to have some questions answered
whether it's a substantial bond that would ensure the replacement of
the adjacent bulkheads if there were failure during dredging.
JIM FITZGERALD:: Now may I comment on that please?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure. Well now that's not set in stone. I'm just,
we're just going through the process here. I'm just making
suggestions.
Board of Trustees
14
March 22, 2000
JIM FITZGERALD: We discussed this project at the work session
several years ago. One of the points that I brought up is that when
those bulkheads were installed, the channel was open. It was
presumably in a condition such as we would like to put it in now. The
bulkheads were stable and they held back the upland soil. I think
that it doesn't seem reasonable to have to rely upon the silt that
has built up over the years to be a part of the supporting structure
of the bulkheads. If at one time they were okay to dredge to say 3'
below low water, they ought to be okay in that condition, and you'll
notice that in the cross-section of the proposed dredging, it is
proposed that it will not be dredged right up against the bulkhead
but rather in the middle of the channel so that there is a specified
slope against each of the size of the bulkheads.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It doesn't show that here. It shows that the slope
begins at the edge of the bulkheads here. But actually maybe I did
not make myself clear. It is not only the concerns of the two
adjacent neighbors. That we are addressing. We are in fact the
owners the under water lands there.
And if one of these bulkheads falls in. And is not repaired then it
would substantial alter the flow of water coming in and out of that
creek. It would affect the environment in side that creek
tremendously. So our concern isn't that someone is going to loose
their bulkhead. It is going to cost a big chunk of money to fix
it. Our concern is that it could have a tremendously adverse impact
environmentally in that area. Suppose the bulkhead falls in
someone can't for financial reasons or whatever can not fix it. Then
it becomes every bodies Problem and town's problem and it is just
not limited to someone's bulkhead going.
JIM FITZGERALD: It would seem to me that and this is something I
mentioned to Mrs. Greenfield that a condition of the permit ought
to be out there is a method for resolving that kind of situation.
TRUSTEE KING: A bond or insurance.
JIM FITZGERALD: Whether that involves a certified inspection before
hand to determine whether the bulkheads would be able to withstand
this dredging activity and insurance. Or set a bond or some sort.
Those things are details I think and I think that the association
would not want to enter into the thing. Without any way of resolving
problems that resulted directly from the activity.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because this could impact them far greater than not
doing anything
JIM FITZGERALD: Sure
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It could block off the channel almost completely.
And if one of the neighbors did not have the resources to fix it
It would become a major - major problem.
NEIGHBOR: I have to comment that this was a fresh water pond at one
time.
JIM FITZGERALD: That is what Mr. Moy said.
NEIGHBOR: Well if that was a fresh water pond at some time. Then
some body either Mrs. Greenfield or Mr. Moy must own the bottom
where that channel is now. Or some body owns the bottom of it?
JIM FITZGERALD: You do. According to the tax map.
NEIGHBOR: Well that could be all well and according to the tax map
but I think you should do a title search on it.
Board of Trustees ~' 15 .... March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we will just claim it. Since we get $10.00
a cubic yard for the dredge squad. I think we will claim that.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: CAC comments?
MR. MOY: May I make another comment.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes there are a number of hands. Yes, come right
ahead.
MR. MOY: Talking about bulkheads. Across the channel from my
bulkhead. My bulkhead is a river built by a contractor from
the(cannot understand) back to where my jetty is. Across my way
Mrs. Greenfield's jetty. Her bulkhead is different. Her jetty was
built professionally from the mouth of the jetty in the bottom of the
bay up through where her lot line ends. There after from that line on
the rest of the creek is a home made job. It was not done by
professionals. They got themselves a motor, and put a pump on it.
You can check on that portion of that jetty and bulkhead. You will
find that it is starting to give, and the whole side will close in.
The reason why the channel is this way. There was a jetty on one
side of the channel going to that lake there. The people did not do
anything with it. Over the years it filled up. (cannot understand)
As it fills up it gets more and more silt onto it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Yes ma'am.
MRS. GREENFIELD: Correction - Mr. Moy - my new bulkhead.
MR MO¥: The one in back.
MRS. GREENFIELD: I am not talking about the back. But I only have
new bulkheading up to my beach. From the beach, it is the lower part.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Could you show us.
MRS. GREENFIELD: Yes I could. (everyone talking a once) With all
do respect even with a bond, even with insurance. We all know the
bureaucratic process. If my property should loose that bulkheading
with bonding with insurance with all the bureaucratic stuff we have
to go through. A lot of damage could happen before anything could
be rebuilt. The bulkheading that I put in, right after Gloria. Cost
me more than my first house. I agree with you what are we doing and
aren't there commercial places to keep our boats. That is a good
part of our business here. When I moved in, people like Mr. Moy
who had a big boat. Keep it at Port of Egypt. He keeps his little
runner at his dock. That is the way we want to live.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Any other comment? What does the Board
think here?
TRUSTEE KING: I think we need a lot of research. I'd like to see
some...I think we ought to do some testing to see how deep these
bulkheads are, for starters.
TRUSTEE SMITH: They need to do some more engineering work. I'd like
to see it dredged but I think they ought to do more engineering work.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The dredging of the channel has implications for
water quality. Also we wouldn't want to see a storm that could
possibly because it is hard in structure on both sides. It could
possibly fill it in, and you would have a situation like the one
further down Mid Way Inlet. Where is could possibly fill in.
Because the channel cannot kept it self opened. Because it is
constrained by the bulkheads. But one of the big questions is
whether this will destabilize the adjacent property. So I think we
are going to ask the applicant. To give us more information on the
Board of Trustees
.... 16 <~'March 22, 2000
method they are going to use? Conditions of the existing bulkheads
so it will not destabilize their adjacent properties.
Also can you give us some soundings into the bay. This project ends,
doesn't even go past the end of Mrs. Greenfield's jetty If we
could get some soundings out into the bay to see what kind of water
depth we are getting there.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That should go for a quarter of a mile. At least
stable same depth very shadow.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You want a sounding so quarter of a mile.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That will show how vast the sand flow. It will
show how much sand is out there.
JIM FITZGERALD: Which way?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: South
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Southward.
It will show how much sand is out there.
TRUSTEE KING: Southwest actually.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well a little bit southwest. We are also going to
need is more soundings if we are going to allow this. I would like
to see the request is for three years. Three times dredging in ten
years. I think what we would have to see is soundings along the
entire cross section here. The four cross sections I would like to
see one more cross section added to the south and one more cross
section added to north at the extent of the dredging, Are there any
durand? Cross section here, and a cross section further out here.
We can make a better decision on future dredging there. Based on if
it does. We had some experience
in Mattituck where an area similar to this was dredged. It filled in
within about a weeks time. So we would like to get a handle on how
this is going to react to future dredging. Now, someone had said, I
forgot who that this lasted about a year. Or one boating season. So
we would like to know. You try to balance everything out between the
amount of disturbance this is going to create. Verses the amount of
benefit.
NEIGHBOR: I do not know if your association is familiar with the bay
out in the front. I fish out there and set a lot of pots out there.
I do not know if someone is telling you one thing and not the other.
But there is a vast amount of soft sand out there. Out in front of
that entrance. Going through the expensive of dredging you are not
going to get very long before that fills in. That is the reality.
Southwest breeze you are going to fill right in.
JIM FITZGERALD: An interesting thing is that the most of the
material that is filling the channel and that island is small stones.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That island seems to be sand. That little delta of
sand into, in West Lake seems to be soft sand that washes in there.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That is the bay sand.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because you get a pretty nice of flush., when we
were there we had a stiff breeze out of south. But still the channel
was draining out through it. And it is moving at enough velocity to
move that sand once it turns around. Move that sand in and make that
little sand bar at the inside. I do not know how a bond works. How
that money the bond money is released or my who.
JIM FTIZGERALD: I am sure the contractors would know that kind of
stuff. We will find out.
Board of Trustees
17
<-/March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: If you could find that out? Also the specifics of
the replacement cost for the bulkheads and the remediation work say a
section fell in. The remediation work necessary and find out how
much the bond would have to be and then find out how readily
accessible that is. So if there is a failure. That money can be
used immediately, to remediate the problem.
TRUSTEE KING: Performance bonds work. I have had them. As a
contractor I have had them. What they do is they guarantee. The
bonding company is guarantee that you will perform the job the way it
is suppose to be done. If you fail. The bonding company is
obligated to come in and hire somebody to do the job the right way.
The bulkhead falling in or any damage to any bodies property within
the parameter of the job falls on the contractor's liability. Some
how you have to write it into the permit. You have to require a half
a million dollar insurance policy for it. There are ways to get
around it. So that everyone is protected. Including us.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay
MRS.GREENFIELD: Half a million dollars in nothing.
TRUSTEE KING: Well that was just a number. Make it ten million
dollars I am giving you an example of how the system works. So there
are ways to make everyone happy. Really..
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
MRS. GREENFIELD: Excuse may I refer to the gentlemen at the end.
Who knows the area so well. If we could follow up and understand by
observation my beach changes every day. Depending upon the wind,
depending upon the conditions, depending upon the moon and that one
day I will have about a fabulous 12 foot high water against my
bulkhead. A week later I will be down to stone.
How you can protect and put all that ( cannot understand) with so
many people impossible damage. And the environment, and the all
rebuilding that if anything happens which can happen. If this what
we want spend our time and affect doing. We have to think very
clearly and refer to people that know the area. Know the way how
difficult it is to manage and keep it more than even a year.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. The flushing of the West Lake is also a
concern and we do not want to see that entrance filled in either.
There is concern also on the other side. You want a solid flow of
salt water through there. To maintain the marsh that is existing.
Once that flow is diminished you are going to get into more of a
brackish situation. That is going to change the environment in that
marsh. The last thing is the dredge spoil. It is doubtful the State
will let you put the dredge spoil on the outside of the bulkhead on
the west. Sorry, the east side and it is doubtful that this Board
will let you put the dredge spoil on the inside. The permit that I
have in the file from '87 states the spoil should be taken to an up
land site. That is probably a ...
JIM FITZGERLD: Why would you think that the DEC would not let us
do it?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think they are going to call that it into title
area. On the bay. Won't you think that would be consistent with
what their ruling on.
JIM FITZGERALD: But it is all nice clean fine sand.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That is my guess. Have you gone through the process
of the DEC, yet.
Board of Trustees ..... 18 ~JMarch 22, 2000
JIM FITZGERALD: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Where he wants to put the spoils. I have no
problem with that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: On the outside.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yeah.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I do not either. When was this last dredged?
JIM FITZGERALD: I am sorry.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When was it last dredged?
JIM FITZGERALD: I do not know.
MR. MOY: 1988.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because the permit was written in 1987. But that
you know permit is written does not mean that it is done then or done
five years later, or done at all. Okay. Thank you.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: When this was done in 1988 how many years of
boating did you get out of it.
NEIGHBOR: Each year it has been getting worse. As you know it is
down at low tide. There is virtually no water flowing through. Each
year it has gotten worse. We went from probably three feet when we
had it done and it just keeps getting worse, through the years. It
did not fill in all in one year. But if it does we are paying the
cost of it and it will all fill back in. We spent money, we lost our
money. It will fill back in. That is it. I understand what you
are saying but we as home owner's saying that we want to try to flush
this out.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
NEIGHBOR: Keep it clean and utilize our small boats that we have been
using through the years. I had a boat up until two years ago. I
gave it up because I can not get in and out enough.
TRUSTEE KING: It took twelve years to fill in, to the point that it
is now. People live for obvious reasons. They want to use their
boat.
NEIGHBOR: That is why we purchased the property.
TRUSTEE KING: Since time has began man has been in a constant
battle against nature, this one is no different.
NEIGHBOR: We are willing to pay for it.
TRUSTEE KING: Sure.
NEIGHBOR: And if it fills in. It is our loss.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. We are going to make a motion to table
this. Until we get the rest of the information.
Does the Board have any other questions, for the applicant.
I will make a motion to table, until next month. It will come up
again.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I just think that the applicants ought to have some
kind of insurance or something. That there will be, put Mrs.
Greenfield and Mr. Moy at ease.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It all has to be spelled out completely. In detail.
NEIGHBOR: We had insurance the last time we did it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right, it says here one hundred thousand dollar
policy was in place.
NEIGHBOR: And whatever it requires. Up to a certain reasonable
amount. The association has agreed to do, if we do the dredging.
MRS. GREENFIELD: May I have a clarification.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes.
Board of Trustees
'~- 19 .... ~March 22, 2000
MRS. GREENFIELD: The dates were 1988 is when it was dredged. The
next application went in 1991, three years later.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay, dated October 26, 1990 it was resolved that
the Town Board of Trustee's accept their request of October 25, 1990
from the West Lake Assoc., to withdraw the permit to dredge West
Lake. There is a lot of information here in the old file. If you
would like to come in and take a look at it, now is really not the
time.
MRS. GREENFIELD: Because that means that two years after it was
dredged. There was an application for the next dredging?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It looks like it, but I really cannot confirm it.
It is all here in the file. If you would like to review it. Will
review it. We have another month now to review it. But feel free to
come in and take a look, also.
MRS. GREENFIELD. And one more request, please. Is it possible as
a courtesy that those of us who are directly involved. Be given more
than you know the time that you have given. It would be very helpful
and appreciated if would be given at least a month. If this is all
happening or two weeks, or three weeks.
DIANE HERBERT: The receipts say that Mr. Fitzgerald sent them all
out on the 14th.
MRS. GREENFIELD: I am not faulting that. I am just saying as a
courtesy I am requesting that little more led time, a little more
notice be give. I do not think that should be a problem.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That is a problem. Because quite often the
application will come in. The application was received on March
3rd,
MRS. GREENFIELD: Do you put it in the Suffolk Times?
DIANE HERBERT: It was in the paper. Yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is listed a week before also. But we can't
always have that much led time ourselves. The application was
received March 3rd. So that is less than three weeks ago. It is
a town code that require to notice any project like this. Under a
certain amount of time. That is straight across for all Town Boards
not just this Board. So we did not set that. That is the town
code. I have motion to table. Is there a second.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES.
So this will come up automatically the night of Wednesday, April
19th. For anyone who is interested. If you could I would imagine
to spell out specifically how, if there is damage failure of the
bulkhead how that will be prepared and redredged if there is
failure whatever. So we really have it specifically in the record
remediation if there is a problem. Thank you. Okay it has been
mentioned that it is trustee bottom. Since it is town owned bottom.
The cost is $10.00 a yard for the dredging as standard fee.
10. Proper-T Services on behalf of AL STRAZZA requests a Wetland
Permit to construct a 4' x 40' fixed open walkway, and a 10' x 10'
seasonal swim float. Located: 1255 Grathwohl Road, New Suffolk.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would anyone hear to speak in favor of the
application.
Yes Jim Fitzgerald, for Mr. Strazza.
Board of Trustees
-~ 20 ~/-March 22, 2000
JIM FITZGERALD: It is pretty straight forward. The application is
for a fixed dock with no ramp, and no float. It extends less than
25% of the way, across the creek. In addition, he asking for your
permission to put a swimming float, seasonally, and since based on
our conversation during the inspections, it seems to be an unusual
request, we looked, with your guidance, as far as the placement of
the...the dates in and out and so forth. He has an open mind.
TRUSTEE SMITH: The 10'X 10' swim float where that's not connected to
the dock, I think there would be a liability problem with that. I
know that people used to put out, in the sound when I was a kid, swim
floats and things like that, but it got to be quite a liability
problem so that's when it stopped.
JIM FITZGERALD: You mean a financial liability?
TRUSTEE SMITH: Yeah. Suppose a kid went out there and got hurt or
something like that. Now who is responsible for this liability of
this float? I mean, it's not connected to one's piece of property or
something like that so the there's no physical connection. The only
physical connection is probably to town bottom with an anchor on it.
JIM FITZGERALD: I'd say the concept be applied to all the docks.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Not necessarily because they're physically connected
to the person's property. Just a float out there like that, that's
why the Town gave then up along the beaches and things like that
because of the liability problem. I know it's a great idea and every
thing like that but I think we're just going to open up a big can of
worms with something like that. I know ~hat when I was a kid they
used to have them off of Peconic, nobody got hurt and we had a lot of
fun there but that was then and this is ~ow. That's the only concern
I would have with something like that. These people could put this
thing out there, Somebody gets hurt and say...I just don't know.
JIM FITZGERALD: You're talking about a passerby that sees it and
jumps in. (changed tape)
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: A minimal structure i~ that location, there's no
flow at all. It's up in a, more than a head of a creek. More in the
marsh itself. No more than 4'X 4' pilings if anything if even
allowed.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well I don't have a problem with giving them high
and dry access there. It's a nice place to put in a canoe or kayak
or something. I think it would protect ~he marsh more than someone
dragging something through it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Well there's an access ramp right there. Maybe
100' away.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: But keep it minimal. 4'X 4' posts. How long is
the dock to the north there? The Blackl~y dock.
JIM FITZGERALD: I don't know. I can't See in the picture.
TRUSTEE SMITH: If you don't want a seasgnal float, they probably
could put an application in for a moorin~ permit and get the float
registered as a boat and then it would probably go under their
homeowners or something like that. I don't know but that might be
the way around something like that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that's a long stretch.
DIANE HERBERT: The bay constables kind of frown on it. They would
suggest you didn't do it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What's the water depth here?
JIM FITZGERALD: It's about 2' at the end of the dock.
Board of Trustees
March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Could we shorten that up at all a little bit?
Shave 8' off of it?
JIM FITZGERALD: 8' off a little bit?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. It's a good shave.
JIM FITZGERALD: No, I don't think so. If I take 8' off it's
probably going to be 6" deep at the end.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How about 10'? It is just for access to the
creek. Right!
JIM FITZGERALD: I am sorry.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just for the access to the creek, Right.
JIM FITZGERALD: Yes as to oppose to. What else would it be for?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: How deep is it at the end?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: About two feet.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I just asked what the depth was 8' inward. Do you
know.
JIM FITZGERALD: I do not know. Because the thought never entered my
mind. But I think that my impression is that the bottom is
relatively straight slope. It does not take any funny moves up or
down. So if it is 2 feet at 24 feet it would be 2/3 of that at 16
feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI. I like Ken's suggestion of 4 x 4's and nothing
sticking up above the decking.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Sure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just keep it low profile. As far as nothing
sticking up nothing protruding out. Any other comment. Do I have a
motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ken do you want to make a motion.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: The diagram you gave me. How many feet is that?
He has 40 feet here I only see 36, 24 and 12 above.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI. No he is showing 12 feet off of the edge of the
pavement.. Starting at 12 feet off at the edge of the pavement.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Okay, I will make a motion to Approve the permit
on behalf of AL STRAZZA to construct a 4 x 40 fixed open
walkway, and no swim float at all. The construct will consist of
4x4 piles with no raised piles above the degree.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No raised piles above the decking.
JIM FITZGERALD: No what?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Low profile poles.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No piles raised above the deck of the structure.
Is there a seconded on that.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
11. Proper-T Services on behalf of SALT LAKE ASSOC. requests a
Wetland Permit to dredge portions of the boat basin to 5' below
MLW, remove collected sand from surrounding walkway, place dredge
spoil and sand removed from walkway on indicated site, maintenance
dredge the same conditions as necessary a min. of three times
during the next ten years. Located: Old Salt Lake Road, Mattituck.
Is there any one here would like to speak in favor of the application.
Yes. It is me again, JIM FITZGERALD.
JIM FITZGERALD: The project speaks for ibself. The pictures that
are in the application where on site inspection.
Board of Trustees
22
~'March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I would just like to ask, if there is any other
comment on this application. From any one else either in favor of or
against. I think our big concern here was again is the interrogate
of the neighbor's bulkhead to the south. It does not seem to be, in
fact the neighbor's bulkhead to the west also. This one here and
this has a curiosity rippling in it. This catwalk here it kind of
went like this and then it went like that again.
JIM FITZGERALD: Where? In here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:: Right in here. We noticed it when we were over here
looking at this bulkhead. We do not have a problem with the dredging
of this. But again we are concerned about the integrity of this
structure here, and this structure here. This one particularly looks
a little .....
JIM FITZGERALD: The people that own the bulkheads are for the
dredging. Presumably they would be able to resolve these questions,
among themselves.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay. So we can act on something like this.
Invoking the codes and the neighboring properties will not be
destabilized through this operation.
JIM FITZGERALD: That will be acceptable condition.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is in pretty bad shape here. This is like a
probably a 6 wide catwalk here. That kind of goes like this and then
goes that and back there again. There is no ice there it is all
filled in, in that corner. This corner here is up, you can
walk on this part. The whole corner is up land.
JIM FITZGERALD: Where you are talking about. I think is where the
sand is coming down. So that the water could have gotten under that
section, of catwalk. While it was frozen or while it was freezing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well it is possible.
JIM FITZGERALD: Lord only knows what they are going to find. When
they take the sand out of the corner. Because it has been buried for
a long time. So it is going to have to be worked on probably on the
whole thing. They will not know what has to be done. Until they get
the sand out of there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Who owns the bulkhead and the timber walkway?
JIM FITZGERALD: Presumably the association does. Everybody I ask
says the same thing. I guess.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure. Okay The spoil site is that going to
contain the sand?
JIM FITZGERALD: It calculates out that way, that it will.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Is the bulkhead fairly new?
JIM FITZSERALD: Which one?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: For the spoil site.
JIM FITZGERALD: I do not know.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Do you have a container or does that hold it in.
Does it feed back in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Who owns the spoil site?
JIM FITZGERALD: The corner person, yes.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We did not, for whatever reason it must have been
the end of the day. We did not look at the spoil site. So I would
like to move this along. Maybe we can condition this on - Henry can
you take a run up there tomorrow and take a look at this.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I am going to be pretty busy tomorrow because I am
leaving Friday.
Board of Trustees
23
~"March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Artie.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Take a ride where?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are you going to be in Mattituck?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Not first thing in the morning. I am going to be in
New Suffolk. Where is this?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Salt Lake Village.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I will go down there early about 6:30.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Can you take a look at the spoil site. We neglected
to look at on field inspections. I would rather move this along.
Based upon your inspection.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I know where that is. That is all scholl in
there. The whole thing.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Exactly what does he want to look at?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The spoil site. We did not look at it on field
inspection, for some reason we missed it.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Where is it?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right down there by your left. By the bay. The CAC
had a question about that also.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It is right on the corner of the entrance to the
creek.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right.
JIM FITZGERALD: Yes.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: So they are going to pump in there, I guess in
there then. Are they going to do this hydraulically?
JIM FITZGERALD: I do not think so. It depends on what they can work
out with the home owner about taken it across.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Somebody's lawn, yeah. Okay I will look at it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You will have an idea whether they can put 700
yards there. Better than the rest of us.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: How big is this area?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It looks pretty big.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: I will go down early tomorrow morning and look at
it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I will second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I will make a motion to Approve the application.
Do we want to let it go three times in the next ten years.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It seems to be a type of thing that happens all
the time. So I would go ahead with that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: With the condition has to be notified. Before each
dredging and this is all going to be based on that it is Trustee
bottom and Trustee owned dredge spoil. The inside inspection
tomorrow of Trustee Foster to determine the liability of dredge spoil
site. You want to take the whole file.
JIM FITZGERALD: The material that is above high water now is not
Trustee's.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure it is. No it still is ours. Because if it
filled in completely. We still own it. Sure.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Sitting on our bottom we take everything.
~RUSTEE KRUPSKI: Fill it in ten feet high and it is still ours.
The elevation does not matter.
Board of Trustees
24
~"March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE FOSTER: From the high water mark - thirty feet out. That is
a lot of dirt.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well take a look at it. I think there maybe
another option for that sand. It looks like good clean sand. There
might be use at the highway department for it also. I am not
sure that would have to be worked out with Ray Jacobs. That has
nothing to do with us.
JIM FITZGERALD: Do you pay for it then.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Not if the town uses it. I would not think. Do you
think he could use it. It looks like good clean in there.
TRUSTEE KING: I think he was looking for sand, not too long ago.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You could contact him.
JIM FITZGERALD: Ray Jacobs.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Who seconded the motion. All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: No I did not.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Will you. Seconded it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yes I will.
12. Catherine Messiano on behalf of ROBERT STICKLE requests a
Wetland Permit for the clearing of land within 75' of wetlands.
Located: 415 Harbor Lights Drive, Southold.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: For the applicant, Mr. Stickle is requesting
a permit for clearing that was done on this property. (cannot
understand) The clearing was done in error. The contractor had a
misunderstanding as to the extent of the pe£mit. He read the DEC ~
permit and did not understand it. Your permit was not equivalent to
it. So, therefore, the clearing has taken place.
Hay bales were placed immediately at your request. Obviously we
submitted the application immediately at your request, and here we
are.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well you know what happened. The house is out of
our jurisdiction. It is 103 feet, so there is enough room to build
it without getting into our 75 feet jurisdiction. But I think the
contractor assumed that since it was out of our jurisdiction,
everything was.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: The DEC letter of non-jurisdiction stated that
they had no jurisdiction beyond the bulkhead. He did not understand
the difference between yours and theirs.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think what I tried to explain to him in the
field. I think we just wanted to impose a thirty foot buffer which
would be consistent to the one that we imposed to the adjacent
neighbor.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: Right, we demonstrated that on the survey.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do you have anything showing being replanted.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: He was going to. His intention at this point
was to use the sand. Just fill it with sand. So it was not
vegetated at all if that was acceptable.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That is fine.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: Thank you..
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I was going to ask it be regraded. But I think this
would be plenty of filter. Have a little swale place in there. But
that shoal be fine.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: Okay swale or no swale with the sand.
Board of Trustees
..... 25 March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I do not think we need a swale in here. It is
pretty level there.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: It is quite level. Another point, I just
wanted to make. I know I have discussed this with the girl's in the
office and I did get a verbal okay but there is some deteriorated
planks on the bulkheading and he is finding that is getting some soil
washing through. We just wanted to clarify that he was okay at this
point to do some patching of the bulkheading. He is going to come
ba~k in for a permit to redo the bulkhead. The bulkhead is at least
thirty years old. They believe that some of the dead men need to be
replaced, as well. So will come back in for a permit for that. But
in the mean time he would like to prevent any further erosion of the
land that is existing because he is finding that it is washing
through.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes I believe I gave that okay. We do not want to
see anymore damage there.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: No he wants to preserve whatever he can.
(cannot understand) Also he ask me to bring up that the town had
contacted him. When they saw that the land was cleared.
Requested his permission to excavate across the drainage easement.
The town installed new drainage structures from Harbor Lights Drive
to the canal. There has been a serious flooding problem there. So
that has been done to, and that was done at the town's request to
Mr. Stickle. Who was very willing to accommodate them.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What did the town do. Excuse me.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: The town excavated from the road to the
bulkheading. With all new drainage structures.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When?
CATHERINE MESSIANO: I was there on, what is the date of my
postings the 15th. I was there on the 15th and it appeared to
be installed by then. There was no basin installed at that time.
The excavation was still opened, but the piping had been installed.
It was there before. There was a pipe in there before.
TRUSTEE KING: One of these days we are going to stop doing the way
we did things before. With runoff problems.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: I have been to the site when there was two
feet of water in the road. You could not pass. The road was
impassable. You have to drive through a neighbor's driveway to get
around it. I think that has been a chronic problem in that
neighborhood. Three roads converge and this is the low point.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: And there is a real problem there.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is the deficiency on the way the whole area was
designed.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: Yes. But the point was he just wanted me to
make sure that you knew he did not do it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. Is there any other comment?
TRUSTEE KING: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: In all in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Someone want to make a motion?
Board of Trustees ~L~ 26 .... March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE SMITH: I will make the motion that we Approve the wetland
permit for the clearing of the land within 75' of wetlands and the
restoration.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
13. Catherine Messiano on behalf of KE~MIT JO~NS requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a 4' x 100' fixed timber walk, a 3' x 12'
ramp and a 6' x 20' float with 6" low profile piles. Located: 1800
Broadwater Road, Cutchogue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:Anyone here like to speak in favor of this
application.
CATHERINE MESSIANO: For the applicant. We had started this two
months ago. When there was a lot of ice out there. We came back
last month and we gave the best information that we could gather at
that time. The Board had requested that we reduce the scope of the
dock. Eliminate the ramp and float. Which we have done. I have
plans that are consistent with what the Board had requested, at our
last meeting.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. This is what we requested. That is
old. I just have the only live one there. That makes it consistent
with the two neighbors. Is there any other comment on this? Do I
have a motion to close the hearing. Do I have a second on that
motion.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES. Will someone make a motion
on this application.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I will make a motion we approve on the new
application. What is the date on this thing?
CATHERINE MESSIANO: I think that is dated March 1,
TRUSTEE SMITH: March 1
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KING: I will seconded. ALL AYES
14. Land Use on behalf of JOF~N RI~RTADO requests a Wetland Permit
for the construction of a driveway for access to proposed house.
Located: 10995 Bayview Avenue, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here like to speak in favor of the
application.
CHARLES BOWMAN: On behalf of John Hurtado I think we sent you a
sketch plan chart. I hope how you wanted the driveway to be laid out
with the swales and the grades the revegetation and the hay bales.
If that is satisfactory. I hope you will approve of this. The one
precautionary note that I would want to add. Is that I have to
submit this to Steve Lawrence for his approval for DEC. Hopefully he
agrees with our plans. So we do not have to come back and change
it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you.
CHARLES BOWq~AN: I will give you a project description and summary.
Which basically says that we reinstalled the hay bales. Where you
indicated double rows, another single row on the other side. We are
going to filling in the low areas. About ten yards of clean fill
material. Two storm recharge basins about 6' x 15' maximum of 2 feet
deep to be installed as you indicated in the field, and the roadway
was going to be graded to allow that run off to enter those recharge
Board of Trustees "~ 27 ~March 22, 2000
basins. Timber piles will be removed and there be a gravel covering
on the drive.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I want to explain this. Is there any other
comment? Before I start in. I want to explain this to Artie.
You know where this is.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Henry and I went over the other day. I thought they
changed it to asphalt?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It still going to remain pervious.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. Let me just show you. Do you have a plan
there.
CHARLES BOWMAN:. The DEC there is not a chance they would approve
asphalt.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When you come through here There is a cut here in
the road. I told him they could fill that. Instead of trying to
regrade and regroup. Just fill that up to grade and put a drainage
swell here. So all this runs here. Put in a drainage swell so that
it will always run here. This is the nice wetland here. You are not
going to impact that at all. If built correctly. It levels off
over here.TRUSTEE KING: Is that a policy of the DEC that they will
not allow any asphalt near a wetlands.
CHARLES BOWMAN: The thing about these wetlands, Jim, is that. There
are (cannot understand) they do not meet their four acre criteria.
But they are marked as unique because of that and they are nice
little wetlands.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Have they been out there?
CHARLES BOWMAN: Chris Stalk was out there, yes. He has not seen
this plan yet. I do not think they are going to have any problem
with this.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well this is something that I just came up with
last week.
CHARLES BOWMAN: I think it is a good idea.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is simple. I think they will never have a
problem with a hole in the driveway either. To make a motion to
close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:
TRUSTEE POLIWODA:
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:
TRUSTEE FOSTER:
Do I have a motion to Approve this plan.
So moved. Seconded.
All in favor.
ALL AYES.
15. Crowley Construction on behalf of BURTON MIC~%ELS
requests a Wetland Permit to reconstruct 93' of timber bulkhead with
C-loc vinyl and replace approx. 20 c.y. of fill from upland
source. Located: 3570 Minnehaha Blvd., Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone here would like to speak on behalf of the
application.
IAN CROWLE¥: On behalf of the applicant. I was just wondering if
Sue had dropped off. As we discussed the drawing of the line from
the nail. In the concrete wall to the adjourning property owners.
Which moves the wall back a foot on one side.
Board of Trustees
-l' 28 ..... March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Right. I do not see it here.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: She let you down.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I spoke to Mr. Crowley, about this so that he
could have the plans ready. I do not see a problem with voting on
this subject to getting those plans.
IAN CROWLEY: Okay.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I would rather not hold this up. Whenever she comes
in with the plans.
IAN CROWLEY: She has been very ill.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: When she comes in with the plans then we can get
the permit. (Tape change) CAC has something written in. Which is
interesting. It says reclaiming of fill is - what does that mean.
IAN CROWLE¥: Mr. Michael's has lost quite a bit of fill. Due to a
leak in his bulkhead. If the wall is taken out there will be just a
little reclamation, after the construction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I do not know quite what that means? What does
that mean. He has a big problem here, a lot of that problem is
caused by road run off to. Any other comment? Do I have a motion to
go off the public hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ken do you want to make a motion.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I will make a motion to approve the permit on
behalf of BURTON MIC~IAELS to reconstruct 93' of timber bulkhead
with C-loc vinyl and replace approx. 20 c.y. of fill from upland
source as per the plans showing now through the opposite retaining
wall.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: From the set now to the drill hole in the opposite
retaining wall. And that per revised plan so that the applicant can
reclaim twenty yards of loss fill, from the area that has blown out
in front of the bulkhead. That there be a ten foot non-turf buffer
behind the new bulkhead. Is there a second on it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I will seconded it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES.
16. Crowley Construction on behalf of EMMA T$CHIEMBER
requests a Wetland Permit to construct 80' of timber bulkhead with
C-loc vinyl and replace approx. 20 c.¥. of fill from upland
source. Located: 3640 Minnehaha Blvd., $outhold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any one want to speak in favor of this application.
IAN CROWLEY: On behalf of the applicant. This is just a
neighbor. It is the same project.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any one else like to speak. I spoke to Mr.
Crowley about that platform out there. That we would like to see
that if not removed at least ...did you speak to Mrs. Tschiember.
Maybe we can get her to take the side. That dock there.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: Let me get up there. Old lady do not hear too
good.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay take your time. We went out and looked at your
site last week all of us. That dock that you have into the water.
That is something that we normally would not allow.
MRS TSCHIEMBER: It has been there forty years,
Board of Trustees
29 .... March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I know that. I am not saying. So I suggested to
Mr. Crowley that if you wanted to put in something more
conventional like a ramp and a float. Like your neighbor has. We
have no problem with that. He said that you wanted to leave it the
way it was. You were not going to touch it.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: I would like to. Very much so.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All right. Cause we assumed that during
construction that would be replaced.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: He does not have to touch that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any way we could ask you take the planking
off the side. At least to get the sun light in. The skirting.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: Somebody mentioned that to me once. I thought
that maybe you would not have to take all the planking. You know
why. The planking is .on there because the muskrats go under there.
I got them all over the yard too.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We noticed that.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: No I do not exactly. I mean I go nuts when I see
a mouse. Never mind something with a tail. I am dog sitting my son's
dog, she is running out there and this thing keeps sticking it's head
up.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Maybe they are living under there.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: They are.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Maybe if it was opened.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: They can not get under. I would be willing to
take a couple of boards off. It only would make more trouble.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Once the muskrats are in. The boards are going
back.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: They are really ugly, ugly.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we did see him there.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: Oh did you see him. I do not know if he has a
wife?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Maybe you can station your cat.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: That cat is so lazy. It does nothing but sleep.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I hate to say, but I have seen them go under your
house.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: Oh gee... I had a mouse this winter in the cellar
and I had to call my son to come down. I refused to go in the
cellar. It was this big when he got it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We will just impose the same thing that we did on
your neighbor. It will be put in the same place. We want to see a
ten foot non-turf buffer along the edging. Some people put in
gravel.
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: I know that.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay
MRS. TSCHIEMBER: Thank you.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:
TRUSTEE SMITH:
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:
buffer.
TRUSTEE SMITH:
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI:
Ail in favor. ALL AYES
Will you make a motion - Henry.
I will make a motion to be approved.
With in kind/in place and with a ten foot non-turf
I will second.
Ail in favor. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees '< ..... 30 ~'JMarch 22, 2000
17. $.E.L. Permits on behalf of FRANK & JANE LYNN
request a Wetland Permit to construct a 4' x 100' fixed dock, a 3' x
14' ramp and a 6' x 20' float with 2 piles. Located: 2300 Hobart
Road, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any one here would like to speak in favor of the
application.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Standing in for Sue Long. She is sick. If
there is any questions on it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We looked at it. The length I think looked - was
the length right?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Ninety feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The total of ninety feet. I think we wanted. I
think we kept it in line with the two neighbors. Right in between
them.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: I am not sure that gives them the necessary
water for the DEC.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I am not sure either.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: We did the soundings last week but it is too
muddy to go out beyond a hundred feet. (cannot understand)
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The day we went you could walk out a 100 feet
almost. I think we walked out what about 80? Eighty some feet we
walked out there. It was low.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: I made it out there. I made it to ninety. I
remember it was ninety.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So we figured at 90 foot fixed, ramp and float.
Would give you water there. Because then it dropped right off.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Ninety foot fixed ramp and float would be 108'
overall. So that is being approved?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think so. Isn't that what .... and while we are
looking for the field notes. You wanted to take that groin out.
Maybe instead of taking it out. Cut it in half.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: That is what I suggested to Mr. Lynn.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay. Because that would be a small project and he
would not be sorry. If he took the whole thing out. We be afraid he
be sorry afterwards
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: That is a possibility.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes so he can just cut it off right at the bottom
whaler. It would still give him something.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: That is a good idea. I had suggested that to Mr.
Lynn.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We did too..
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: We never came to a final decision on it. But I
think he be in agreement.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because he said to take the whole thing out. We did
not think that was a good idea. Do we have a length there?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I think it was ninety feet, plus ramp and float.
You walked out on the fixed dock and I held my hand out and you wound
it up. It was ninety feet in the fixed spot.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Because that is another 14 plus 6. It is another
twenty feet pass there.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Because the ramp is not right on the float. So
it would be 12 and 6.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think that would be even with the neighbor's.
I think that gives you water there.
Board of Trustees .... 31 ..... March 22, 2000
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Yes, that would get us into at least 3-1/2 foot.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think four. Well the day we were there was
unusually low.
Ken walked out that far.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: At the site I mentioned that area is highly
concentrated with shell fish. (cannot understand) I do not
recommend any poles off shore there because that monopolizes
a good chunk of the bottom.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: They do not want high poles. They just want the
float.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Okay. I see that in the permits. That the two
piles.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What are you saying.., okay. We are good on that.
A lot of those 2 piles came out this winter.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Up at the end of the creek it is all mud. They
come out every year. Every time there is ice. As you get out into
there. There is all sand at the bottom.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Does it really matter if there are one pole or two
poles up?
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Yes it does. It makes a big difference.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I consider two poles if you get the ice in there.
The ice gets movement on just either or pole. It is going to pull
the other pole.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: No, actually it breaks away because it gets
narrower as the tide goes out from underneath it. It breaks off
because it is not supported.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Why do they all pull up?
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Because it is all mud up there.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Just soft.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Henry's dock you can go there. You can push his
boat around with your hand.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Don't do that. Right.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Right.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I have to bubble it.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI You have to bubble it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So let us close this out. Do I have a motion to
close this hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Kenny
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I will make the motion to Approve the permit on
behalf of FRANK & JANE L~q~N to construct a 4' x 90' fixed dock,
with a 3' x 14' ramp and a 6' x 20' float with 2 piles. Located:
2300 Hobart Road, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a second?
TRUSTEE: SMITH: Seconded
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Angelo if you want to check the measurements on
that. To make sure that we are correct on that. In between them
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Yes.
Board of Trustees
32
~'~March 22, 2000
18. S.E.L. Permits on behalf of TIM & NANCY HIIW. request a Wetland
Permit to install a 4' x 45' catwalk, a 3' x 12' ramp and a 6' x 20'
float with 2 piles. Located: 360 Oak Avenue, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Anyone here would like to speak in favor of this
application?ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Once again I am standing in for
Sue. Because she is to ill to be here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: This one I think we have a big problem with.
Remember this one.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I was waiting for this one.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: You were. Were you. Well go ahead.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA. Are you familiar with that exact location?
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: I have been there.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: (Cannot understand) Off-shore main channel. Well
just where this proposal is. It is right in the middle in shore
channel. Which I personally navigate. I am sure a lot of boaters in
that area navigate in the channel and it can not be more than 20 feet
wide there. So it would be a navigational hazard. To put a float of
any type in that spot. There aren't any floats of any type in that
spot
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: I am just trying to think. Harold Schwartz
right next door. Has a dock that is longer than this proposed dock.
That he puts in and out every year.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: It was not there when we were there.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: He takes the entire dock out. Every year, but
has a dock that is longer than this proposed dock. Right next door.
No more than 60 feet away.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Does he go out into that channel?
ANGELO STEPNOSKI He must. I am not familiar with the channel.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Well we went out on a good day. It was dry you
could see it. Very clearly there.
TRUSTEE SMITH: There was a channel that was dredged years ago.
Wasn't it?
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: There is a small one in shore. A small channel
and then there is a monster flat. Than off-shore main channel.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I just could not see how you can put a 6 foot wide
boat in, and then have a boat on the side of it. Then have someone
else navigate that channel.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Like I said Harold Schwartz dock is right there.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: That probably be a conflict for this dock then.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: No actually it will get along fine. He has no
problems with it.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I do not know how old that permit is? But I am
sure. This one would definitely go 1/3 of the length of the
navigable channel. It probably go 2/3.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: But it would not go 100 of the way, across the
water would it?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Oh no.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is a navigable water way there. So I think
this has to go back to the drawing board. Try to work something
out. Give us water depths going out there, right across that
channel.
Board of Trustees
33
...... March 22, 2000
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Sue has water depth on this drawing, but it does
not go across the channel. It just goes to the end of the proposed
dock.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think you would need water depths right across
because like I said that when we were ...what do the field notes
say? First of all we would rather see it start from the bulkhead and
not out in the marsh.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: Mr. Hill's reasoning for not starting at the
bulkhead. He has small children and he does not want them to have
direct access to the dock. He wants them to be contained by the
bulkhead. They have to jump down to walk out to the dock. His
reasoning is that they are less likely to go on the dock. If they
can not walk directly off the bulkhead onto it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How about a gate?
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: That is a possibility.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It seems that if you have small children they are
going to go.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: That is the reason he gave me. I can just tell
you what he told me.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think we need to see some kind of re-worked plan
here.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: How far out do you want the soundings. How many
feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Until it comes up again to the flat.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: So then over the flat into the next channel.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No. We are not going to entertain a structure
there. Just up to the flat. Just so it levels off again.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: So we will take soundings through the channel.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA. There is a way to walk around that spot of that
channel. With a little sand bar.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: So we are going to table this to next month.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Yes. Have Sue call Mr. Hill and tell him of our
concerns. We loved to see it a little bit longer and come right off
of his bulkhead.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: I would to because I get to sell more of the dock.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We would rather see that. Less destruction there.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI:. I will give them your comments.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thanks.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Just for note there is a significant shell fish bed
there also. Soft clams on that beach.
ANGELO STEPNOSKI: We jet up a lot of them when putting the docks
in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I will make a motion to table the application.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
19. Brian Downey on behalf of SUSAN L. JOF~N$ON requests a
Wetland Permit to add three feet to an existing bathroom and enclose
the portion of the deck in front of the bathroom and bring the
existing deck around the front of the house. Located: Windy Point
Lane, Southold.
BRIAN DOWNEY: On behalf of Susan Johnson.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We took a look at this. Do you have any comments to
make on this.
Board of Trustees -'~ 34
........ March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I did not have a problem with the deck. But I
have a problem with the placement of you're trees you cut down.
Putting them into the marsh. It looks like a junk pile.
CARPENTER: I am there specifically as a carpenter. To build the
bathroom out. They had inherited this property recently. So I
noticed there are lawn movers, all mashed up there as well. If we
might take care of it. We would take it out.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: We will put that as a stipulation. I make a...
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Yes, close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA I will make a motion to approve the addition on
Susan Johnson house on Windy Point Lane, Southold bring around the
deck on the existing bathroom. With the stipulation that they clean
up the marsh.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are you going to be more specific?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Cut down trees and all garbage out of the marsh.
Clean up all debris.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a second on that?
TRUSTEE SMITH: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
20. Richard Larsen on behalf of PAUL LANCEY requests a Wetland
& Coastal Erosion Permit to remove and replace inkind/inplace 110' of
bulkhead and backfill with 200 c.y. of fill from upland source,
remove and replace, inkind/inplace a 9' x 12' deck, stairs relocated
and rebuilt, and replace bare areas with beach grass. Located: 18565
Soundview Avenue, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here to speak in favor of the
application?
DIANE HERBERT: We had the owner in here today, and see where it is
over on this property. We got a letter from the corporation, this
man, saying that he did not want this to precede. Until he saw the
plans on how they were going to do this. But when Mr. Lancey left
the office. He spoke with this man. He would do anything ,,because
I told he might have to..the corporation might have to put in an
application for this. If you suggested it.They are going to take it
out and move it over. So should the BY-HOLD Corporation also apply?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Not for that portion of the bulkhead. He is going
to replace that also?.
DIANE HERBERT: No they are going to leave that. It is just the
steps that Mr. Lancey is doing to take and repair the bulkhead over
here.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Wait a second.
DIANE HERBERT: See where it bows out. You saw this (cannot
understand) on Mr. Lancey's property up to that point.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: That is 110 foot then? Well that has to be over
on his property.
DIANE HERBERT: 108 feet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any problem Ken?
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I did not have any problem with completing the
work. But they have to find out ....
DIANE HERBERT: So they worked it out between themselves.
Board of Trustees
'~"~'~ 35 ...... ~March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So he just going to move the stairs. Take that off
his property and put it on the stairs.
DIANE HERBERT: But the question that I had? Do you want the BY-Hold
Corporation to do an application
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No
DIANE HERBERT: That is good.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Ken - okay - I need permission to go off the public
hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: So moved.
TRUSTEE KING: Second
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: I will make a motion to Approve the permit on
behalf of PAUL LANCEY to remove and replace inkind/inplace 110' of
bulkhead and backfill with 200 c.y. of fill from upland source,
remove and replace, inkind/inplace a 9' x 12' deck, stairs relocated
and rebuilt, and replace bare areas with beach grass. Located 18565
Soundview Avenue, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a second?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Just to add that any disturbed areas on the
neighbors properties should be replanted also.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Sure.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: ALL in favor. ALL AYES.
21. Peconic Associates on behalf of DOUGLAS DE FEIS requests a
Wetland Permit to build in front of approx. 120" of deteriorated
bulkhead. Work Will include replace of deck and approx. 20 c.y.
of backfill between the old and replacement structure taken from the
immediate area in front of bulkhead. Located: 1165 Cedar Point Drive
West, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there anyone here who would like to speak in
favor of the application.
MERLON WIGGIN: Peconic Associates on behalf of the applicant. Since
we had the mutual visit at the site. We revised the plans which you
will see the new revised plans. We moved the bulkhead back 12 feet
to put it behind the original deck. So now there will be no
requirements for dredging. The old bulkhead will be removed. Until
that happens (cannot understand) Based on the discussion we had on
the site with the Board.
TRUSTEE KING: You are just moving the whole structure back.
MERLON WIGGIN: It doesn't really show the erosion taken place
because of the damaged bulkhead underneath the upland scrubs and the
stuff that the erosion gets back undermines the float in front of the
house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there any other comments?
WILLIAM RIELLY: 1075 Cedar Point Drive West. Next door neighbor.
I have rip-rapping
that goes around. I am not opposed to what they are doing. I just
want to make sure that when they put it in. That if any rip-rap they
have to move gets moved back. When they finish the project.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Would you like to see the plans?
WILLIAM RIELLY: I do not know how they do the construction. To
bring it back. How far they come with the return? Whether the locks
that I have now have to be moved to do the draw.
Board of Trustees
36
~L~ ~March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: In other words that anything that has to be removed
on your property. Will be replaced.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Should be restored.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: That is not unreasonable.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any other comment?Do I have a motion to close the
hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: I will make a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I will make a motion to Approve the plans. The
newly submitted plans. The condition that the neighbors property
stone rip abutment that if anything is disturbed that it be restored
to its present state.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
22. Walter Perrson on behalf of FRANK CAMPANELLI requests a
Wetland Permit to construct a one family dwelling, septic system,
deck, a 4'x 27'5" ramp and a 6' x 20' float. Located 1275 Cedar
Point Drive West, Southold.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Any one here like to speak in favor of the
application.
WALTER PERRSON: I am representing Mr. Campanelli.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Artie and Henry did you take a look at this?
This is right next to Mr. DeFeis which was the previous one.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: No we did not.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Do you have DEC approval? Do you have Board of
Health approval.
WALTER PERRSON: No.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It is about 24 feet to the wetlands of the septic
system. One of our big concerns is the septic system.
That is one of our big concerns.
WALTER PERRSON: Mr. Campanelli bought this property in 1967.
At that time there was a building permit issued on it. He had
expediation of building eventually. (cannot understand) Things
would come up say that he could not build on it. There were other
concerns of DEC or health department. That would be a different
matter.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well in 1967 he would not have had any trouble
building on it. But things have changed so now. You will never that
through the health department.
WALTER PERRSON: I did speak to the health department and they said
it was part of the septic system.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well you know I should not say that. You may get it
through there. If you put a concrete retaining wall all around it.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I have seen the high ones. That are further away.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: But they will I am sure you will have to put a
concrete retaining wall completely around that septic system.
Definitely..
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: See what I do not understand there? How can you
encapsule the sewage and then what. You are going to have finite
area of capacity. It has to leak out some where.
Board of Trustees
37
....... ~arch 22, 2000
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well it goes vertically. You have to dig down
through whatever soil that is there. Until you hit good sand which
may or may not. You may not have a problem with that. Into the
water table. Then you have to back fill with good clean sand and
gravel.
WALTER PERRSON: Is the cesspool on that?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: No it shows it as a septic tank and five pool
system. A regular standard health department approved system.
WALTER PERRSON: There was a cesspool there
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Three foot brown lomie sand. So you have to dig
down 5-1/2 feet to the course sand. Then back fill with good clean
material. I know they are going to make you put in a retaining wall
in.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I do not see where it is from that distance. I
have seen them deny ones further. What is the depth of water there?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Out where they did the test hole. It shows 5.7 you
need 3 foot above water to the bottom of the pools. There 2 foot and
3 foot, so you do not have the depth. So they would have to be above
the surface.
WALTER PERRSON: Scale them out from the high water mark to the
back of the property line. How many feet that is?
TRUSTEE SMITH:: They show 66 feet on one side, but that is below
low water.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: From the high water you mean.
TRUSTEE SMITH: From the high water mark.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Actual high water line, about 52 feet.
TRUSTEE SMITH: The jurisdiction was 75.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: The other side is even less.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Our policy should be one that allows the septic
tank within our jurisdiction.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: We do not. Well we start with our standard 50 foot
buffer-high water. See you are really constrained there.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: The septic tank is a sealed unit. It is not a
leaching unit. It is a solid containment tank. Just like the one at
your house.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What about the leaching pools?
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well the leaching pools are leaching pools. They
leach 99% of that goes down. Very little goes to the side. You can
talk to the health department about it. But I know just my
experience with doing this. I have been a septic system installer
for thirty years. I deal with these people daily. I do not see any
other way without a retaining wall. But they feel if you retain the
sewage from leaching side ways and let it go down. Where 99% of it
goes any way. It is traveling through three feet of clean sand and
gravel which their criteria calls for.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: How far would they require it to go down.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well you have to dig into good clean sand. The test
hole shows it is 3 foot. From ground elevation zero. You have a
foot of dark sandy loam - three foot of brown loam sand or at three
feet brown loam sand. That would all have to come out of there and
you will have to fill it with course sand and gravel so that you
would have a continual pervious layer of material. The bottom of
leaching pools would have to be set a minimal of three feet above the
static water table. So depending now the pools are two foot high.
Board of Trustees~
38
...... ~{arch 22, 2000
Three foot above water, that is five feet. So then you have another
concrete cover (tape change) So you are going to be sticking quite
a ways above grade. So the chances are you will have to put in a
retaining wall in.
WALTER PERRSON: Will we get health department approval.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well I do not know. I have talked to the people in
the health department. Many many times about jobs like this. From a
Trustee level. They really want to know what our disposition is
before they act on an application. We work with them. If they would
do it? I do not know what
WALTER PERRSON: What are the set back rules.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: What does it say - what is our policy. If it is not
going to fly through here. It is not going to fly there either. So
if you want to say well if the health department approves it. We'll
approve it but then it is not going by our criteria either.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No i do not want to marry that- that's for sure.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Their criteria includes retaining walls you have to
met their rules and regulations. But in their rules and regulations
is a concrete retaining wall. So if this particular job meets their
criteria.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: So we are going to have to precede with this in
some fashion now.
MERLON WIGGIN: Can I speak for Mr. DeFeis.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Sure.
MERLON WIGGIN: He had a copy of this application. His concern was,
I think the application shows that his house has public water. He
has a private well next to his driveway which he is still using. He
says maybe sometime in the future he might get public water. But he
has no immediate plan to do that. He was concerned whether this
meets a criteria of the health department distance, even though it is
not a Trustee concern. Because it is less than 150 feet. Then it
shows that the DeFeis has public water.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: It said that. Yes.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well you will have to go to board of review. If the
neighbor objected he would not get it. The health department
probably would grant this application for the septic system. But you
would have to do what they tell you to do to get it. Regardless of
the cost. That is fine. But if it does not fly through here.
It is not going to fly there either.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I think the only way to precede is to have you
contact the health department. We will write them a letter also
telling them of our concerns.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: See I would call them and ask them, but they do not
have any papers you have not applied to them.
WALTER PERRSON: No
TRUSTEE FOSTER: So my suggestion would be to apply to the health
department.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let them precede first.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: They will call us on it. I know they will call us
on it. One of the fellows will probably call me on it, as in the
past. Then we have something to talk about. But without him having
the paper work or surveys or anything to look at.
WALTER PERRSON: I did not apply to them because I believed they would
wait until you.
Board of Trustees
39
~-~arch 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Normally yes we do not see something like this.
This is problematic. I have to be honest. There is no light at the
end of the tunnel here. There is no guarantee of permit on this
property.
TRUSTEE SMITH: We had something like this before. Al. and we wound
up using incendiary type toilets.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: What is the minimize size house? You can build in
Southold town.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: 850 bottom floor.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: 850 - I think that you would have to explore
something at a minimun size house also.
WALTER PERRSON: The basic house the living area is 833 feet. We
added on because we had to put the mechanicals. So we put the
mechanicals between the house and the garage. So that we could get
the heating plant in and the washer and dryer. Because we know that
we will not be able to put mechanicals below the eight feet above
water.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Put in the elevator then you will go up a little
bit.
W~LTER PERRSON: I am sure that we can relocate that. Cut it down
to whatever the minimum on the first floor.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Well that is the building department.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: No but the small of the foot print the less impact.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: But the building department has the 850 sq. ft. in
the building code.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: A1 would approve this? Where would your buffer be?
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The hay bales. That is what it looks like here.
So I will make a motion to table the application until we hear from
the health department and see how the applicant makes out with that
route.
Do I have a second.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Seconded
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
23. Joseph Edgar on behalf of ALAN CARDINALE requests a Wetland
Permit to dredge an area approx. 30' x 100' to a max. depth of 4'
below ALW, and to change the method of dredging from mechanical
crane and bucket to portable hydraulic dredge and to relocate spoil
from previous site. Located: 1134 Bridge Lane, Cutchogue.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is any one here like to speak in favor of or
against the application. Cardinale everybody happy with this.
BOARD MEMBERS: Yes
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Second.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Is there a second.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Someone make a motion.
TRUSTEE SMITH: Make a motion that we approve ~LAN CAP/)INALE
requests a Wetland Permit to dredge an area approx. 30' x 100' to a
max. depth of 4' below ALW, and to change the method of dredging
from mechanical crane and bucket to portable hydraulic dredge and to
relocate spoil from previous site. What the hell is the previous
site?
Board of Trustees
40
....... ~arch 22, 2000
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There Changing the site to across the way there.
There is an old dredge spoil site they have DEC approval. It is 110
yards it is not..
TRUSTEE SMITH: Right.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
24. Bill Sanok on behalf of MATTITUCK SALTAIRE INC., requests
a Wetland Permit to rebuild existing bulkhead and stairs. Located:
715 Soundview Avenue, Mattituck.
BILL SANOK: On behalf of MATTITUCK SALTAIRE INC., we have the
application. We had a bulkhead that was rebuilt in 1978. I think,
Artie lives right next door.
TRUSTEE FOSTER:. Yes - this is for beach right away.
BILL SANOK: What happened is we had the only bulkhead there.
Properties on both sides eroded away. Now our neighbor's built their
bulkhead. So ours sticks out about 8 feet. It is severely damaged.
So we want to replace it.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Bring it back in line with the others.
BILL SANOK: Bring it in line with the others. Re-establish fish.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: Right.
BILL SANOK: New neighbors put in a bulkhead in and stairs. That
is the third property.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to close the hearing.
TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: The CAC recommends revegetation. Do you have any
of that on the plans?
BILL SANOK: We will be putting in American Beach Grass. Very
similar to what the property immediately to the west of us.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: I will make a motion to Approve with the condition
that it be planted with American Beach Grass, before June 21. Is it
going to be done soon?
BILL SANOK: I do not know if it will be done by then. Because I
do not have the pre-permit from DEC just yet.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Okay - well tell them to plant it in the fall then.
BILL SANOK: Okay.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES
Somebody is going to plant it, some of the people are going to plant
it in July or August.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Seconded. All in favor. ALL AYES.
25. WILLIAM & BARBARA KELSEY requests a Wetland Permit to repair
and replace a bulkhead within 18" in front of old bulkhead and
approx, 166 c.y. of clean fill from upland source placed behind
bulkhead. Located: 3790 Peconic Bay Blvd. Mattituck.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Who looked at this one?
TRUSTEE KING: I looked at it. It is just a typical replacement
within 18" give them one bump out. The only question that I had was
that there seems a lot of fill, 166 yards.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: There is a lot of fill.
TRUSTEE KING: There is no erosion. There is nothing missing.
They are just going in front of bulkhead.
Board of Trustees .... 41 March 22, 2000
TRUSTEE FOSTER: No unless they are going to build the bulkhead high
and raise the grade.
TRUSTEE KING: It is beach grass right down to the bulkhead.
Everything is there. Just the bulkhead is old.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Are you sure it is the same height as the existing
bulkhead.
TRUSTEE KING: Yes. I cannot imagine using that much fill.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: How far out? Do they have an existing or double
stage bulkhead, one high one low.
TRUSTEE KING: Like in the bay, you are one bulkhead higher than the
one at the beach. Well they are just facing it in front of that one
bulkhead. Who estimated that amount of fill seems like a lot.
TRUSTEE FOSTER: It is. That is a lot of fill.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Let us call him on it then. We will have to call
him up. Let us approve it. Based upon getting a revised fill
number. Do I have a motion to go off.
TRUSTEE KING: So moved.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Thank you. I'll make a motion to approve, based
upon a recalculation of the amount of fill. Last pump out. Do I
have a seconded on it.
TRUSTEE KING: Seconded.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: All in favor. ALL AYES.
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI: Do I have a motion to go off.
TRUSTEE KING: Moved to go back to the regular meeting.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA Seconded. ALL AYES.
V. RESOLUTIONS:
1. SHARON MC ELROY requests a Grandfather Permit for 140" of
existing bulkhead and dock. Located: 385 Gull Pond Lane, Greenport.
SCTM #35-4-28.26
TRUSTEE SMITH moved to Approve the application. TRUSTEE KING seconded.
ALL AYES.
2. ALBERT J. ROMERIL, JR. requests a Grandfather Permit for an
existing dock measuring a 3' x 52' dock with a 3' x 5' ramp to a 6' x
12' float. Located: 1265 Vanston Road, Cutchogue. SCTM#lll-i-5
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI moved to Approve the application. TRUSTEE FOSTER
seconded. ALL AYES.
3. Land Use on behalf of GERALD RUPP requests a Coastal Erosion
Permit to construct a 1 story addition to an existing single family
dwelling within an existing brick patio area. Located: 19375
Soundview Avenue, Southold. SCTM #51-1-20
TRUSTEE KRUPSKI made a motion to table it. TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded.
ALL AYES.
VI. MOORINGS:
1. CLAIRE MATHER requests a mooring for a 13' dinghy replacing Matt
Flynn #23 in Gull Pond. ACCESS: own property.
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve. TRUSTEE KING seconded. ALL AYES.
Board of Trustees
42
........ ~4arch 22,
2000
2. MICHAEL PERSICO requests a mooring in Jockey Creek for a 22'
sailboat with a 300 lb. mushroom. He is replacing a cancelled
mooring. ACCESS: Public
TRUSTEE POLIWODA moved to Approve. TRUSTEE FOSTER seconded. ALL
AYES..
Meeting adjourned at: 11:30 p.m.
,~ spectfully ~m~
~arlotte Cu~ingham, ~/erK
~Board of Tru~tee~ ~
RECEIVED AND FILED BY
THE SOUTHOLD TOWN CLERK
l
To~ Clerk, Town o{ Soui~old~