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HomeMy WebLinkAbout03/26/1990 ~(/i' ~ Q- I--=--: Local Waterfront Revitalization Program - Meeting - 3/26/1990 MEMBERS PRESENT: Steve Latson, Peter Kren, Richard Wilton & Don Stanton Steve stated that this meeting was set so that they could discuss when they could all get together and decide when they could meet to start going over the 44 policies. Richard - Where are we going from here? Don - It occurred to me looking over the material, hey, we don't even have for this document. Now I know that the Town does. They have volumes of things to tell you how to put a waterfront revitalization program together. Steve - Well, Scotts putting that together so far as I know. Don - How does he do this without any imput. Steve - He is taking all imput that we have and the imput from any other sources that are available and putting them together. Don - What has he done so far? Steve - He is putting together the inventory and anaylsis Don - Peter Walsh is doing an interpretation of policies? Steve - All I know, we have been asked to go through these 44 policies and add what we feel is necessary. Richard - Whats that? Steve - There are 44 State pOlicies. You can take them as they are or taylor them to the Local Law. Don - That is what Peter Walsh has done. His interpretation of those policies as they apply to the Town of Southold. Steve - Well, now we are suppose to make our reccomendations in detail. Peter - It seems to be backwards. I thought we were suppose to be telling him what we thought not have him write it, but us. Don - The policies as the State produced them are general so he has particularized them and now we can chew on them. But if he dosen't particularize them, who does? There is nObody here in the town. Steve - Well, there has been a major complaint in the town for years that there has been a shortage in the Planning Board. There is no question that Southold is lacking staff. Peter - It is not suppose to be the Town writing this. It is suppose to be us telling the Town what we think. Steve - But we are just an advisory committee. Peter - The Town isn't suppose to be writing this document, we are. Steve - The Town is suppose to be writing it, we are just an advisory committee. All I know is we have been asked to go through these 44 policies, not tonight but maybe the next time we meet. We can take one, two or three at a time. Some are easier than others. Don - We will be here three more years. Who is the point person in town government to give us any imput? Peter - There was Valerie, but she is not even involved anymore. Steve - The thing with Valerie is the Planning Board asked that she be removed from LWFR because all the work they were asking her to do at Planning Board she said she didn't have the time because she was busy with Waterfront Revitalization. So that is why we don't have anybody. Don - Who in Town Government is point person? Is there anyone? Steve - We have the Town Council. Don - The Town appoints this committee, there has to be someone in Town Government to contact. Steve - Easthampton has a natural resource department with all qualified staff. Richard - Tom Wickham is the head of the legislative council. Does that mean he deals with all committees? Steve - The whole Town Board deals with committees. Its just that Tom Wickham is interested in this from the stand point of planning. He is head of the planning aspect of the Town Board. We could certainly have him come to our next meeting. Peter - The people are going to have to deal with this on a day to day basis. Should be like Valerie in Planning Board and those kind of people, not necessarily the guy that sits on the Town Board and just kind of oversees their operation. Don - From the policy aspect of this thing he has to come once and tell us what the Town wants us to do, and roughly how do they want to go about it. He should really do that after talking to the rest of the Town Government. Peter - It was my impression they were going to let us do our thing and then they were going to go to the state and say this is the document. Do we live with this the way it is or do we change it. Steve - We are lacking in Planning Department to have a staff member come in here and help coordinate the whole situation. Richard - It isn't the coordination, it is the doing. Does the kid that goes to Cornell still working on this thing? Steve - Yes. Scott is doing the Inventory and Analysis. He is actually putting together our program. Richard - This is all the stuff we got from him. He hasn't done anymore? Steve - He is working on it. I don't know what stage he is at now. He is mostly going to concentrate on doing this in the spring and summer. His thesis is going to be this project, so this is why he wants to work for the Town this summer to finish this up. Don - I have said this before. I still feel the same way. I am uncomfortable with a grad student writing a master thesis. It is going to affect everyone who lives here in some way or another. Steve - I would interpret that as possibly being discriminatory. I don't think that it is his age, it is what he produces. Until we see what he produces, I don't think you can make ajudgment like that. Peter - It should be someone who dosen't know anything about Southold Town producing the document for the town. Don - But he does know. This inventory stuff is detailed and he has good stuff. But, this report is more than just an inventory. Its policy recommendations. I object to some grad student making policy and recommendations for something like this. Steve - Anybody could have done it. What would be the difference. No matter who was doing the analysis you could make an objection. Don - Being that I am three times his age, I would say that I would be in better position to do that, or anyone of us. Steve - That is like saying someone 40 isn't as capable as someone that is 80. I just disagree with that. Richard - I would like to make a recommendation on something. We want to know why? We got to have something to back it up rather than thats the way it is going to be. Steve - Out of all this, I think we should compile a brief letter just with the concerns and send it to Peter Walsh and Scott. Don - I think the first ones we should write to is the Town Government. We need some specific guidance. How do they want us to proceed with the Waterfront Revitalization. If they want to do something, exactly what is their plan for producing the document. Do they want the committee to do it, Scott Dobriner along with Peter Walsh, How do they want to do this. Steve - Peter Walsh has an official status being that he represents the State. If Southold does not adopt a program, then the State will have the entire program for us. We will have our Waterfront Program regardless whether we adopt a local one or not. Its just much more to our advantage to have a local program. Peter - How local is it going to be if you have Peter Walsh on State level supervising the writing of it? Steve - All he has done is revised the policies, and that is what we are going to work on. So if you have objections, start changing them. Don - Couple of things I have noticed right away. First of all, he keeps bringing up this red hering about people; life being endangered in Waterfront vicinity, and this is a take off of the 1938 hurricane. That is pure bunk. If somebody has a good case that endangers life then let them make a case. The other thing is he just parrots the program that the coastal erosion hazard people are trying to put in place. They have no way of getting their plan in place, but here is a way through this Waterfront Revitalization to do it. I read that, and the reason I recognize that is because alot involved Southold and what he did was lay that policy on the Town of Southold and I disagree with that. I have a more general statement to make. I don't see much in the way of revitalization anywhere in this stuff. What this is is control control control. No problems are being fixed. Things are not being revitalized. Steve - At this point in time, there is no magic plan for the Waterfront. The Master Plan did not address it. Nobody has addressed our waterfront specifically, and yet that is the golden egg of this time. What we have to do is go over this policy by policy. Don - We are without any possible fixes coming out of it as well as preservation. There are things wrong. Steve - Let me say this to that subreption. Quite simply at this point in time, there is no management plan whatsoever for the waterfront. The master plan did not address it. Nobody has addressed the waterfront at this time. The basic fact is we are not a big beautiful strip of farmland out in the middle of Ohio. That is not what brought money to this town. Its the Waterfront. the real question now is to make a policy for our waterfront because it never happened before. Don - Everyone has to speak for themselves. Is it a good idea to have a Waterfront Management Plan for Southold and every other town that has a waterfront? Personally I think it is a good idea, but what I am saying is, and I think the point that Peter was bringing up is that what is happening with Peter Walsh doing the interpretation, he is obviously drawing from his other state views and he is projecting their view point which is probably a very natural thing for him to do since he works with them rather than it being okay from this prospective. Steve - Again we have to go through the 44 policies and make changes. Richard - From what I hear everybody seems to agree there is stagnation. There is no plan. Steve - What is your reason for saying that? Richard - No change. There is no plans for moving ahead in the future. Population is going to be increasing. Where are the new marinas going to go? What are we going to do about expanding existing marinas? Steve - Well, it is quite simple. You might not be able to put in new marinas if you want to maintain natural habitats. Richard - Whats going to happen? Steve - Which? Richard - We have to put new ones in. Steve - Not necessarily. Richard - Whats going to happen? Steve - Well, thats what this is all about. Not necessarily. You could have two different views of the peconic Bay system. You could turn it into a total playground. It will end up being totally closed to shellfishing. Polluted, etc., or you could turn it into one of the greatest aquacultures. I am just talking two extremes. Now, one of the greatest aquacultural estuaries that into the future, 100 years from now might be producing more food than people could possible conceive, and more money. 100 years from now granted, depending on world conditions. Don - Those are two extremes. This doesn't even address that. Steve - I know. So, we have to put something in about that. You can have many many different views of what stagnation is. To me for instance when you see stagnation is putting alot of marinas in is going to create stagnation. Stop marinas going in could make the bay a living viable thing that it has always been. Evolving a natural way that is not stagnation. When you use these little phrases, you have to be a little more sophisticated than saying its not developing marinas. Peter - How practicable is it if Southold says no more development. No more Marinas. No nothing and you get Easthampton, Southampton and Riverhead developing all of their shore front? Steve - That is another question too. Peter -I mean, there doesn't seem to be any consistency anywhere. Why should Southold Town take the position to preserve the bay, and in effect seriously limit the development and the other towns are doing just the opposite and making more money and providing more jobs and income for their people then Southold might ever be able to doing the other thing. I mean, it just doesn't make sense to have one person do one thing and somebOdy else do the other thing that is totally opposite. Steve - That's true. Personally from what I have seen, I would say Shelter Island and Easthampton are going towards the preservation. I don't know what Southampton is doing. Riverhead I would say possibly is going the other way. Peter - As the demand increases and the places to put these facilities decrease, people are going to go in and buy up residential sites. They are going to go before the Towns demanding zone changes, and they will probably get them because they will be able to produce all the documented criteria that say that the town needs this, this and this facility, and they will get a zone change. They will put these things anyplace they want to. Steve - That is not necessarily true. I think quite possibly what you will see in the future is that people will finally realize that it is a finite world which we all know, and that you will have to say what is full, and full is full. Quite possibly if people are really going to be smart start looking into the future. Europe has already done this. They have already made their lables of full. Europe is most likely going to zoom right out in 1992. Peter - I don't see the Town recognizing this. Steve - Just let me say this. Just looking philosophically you cannot assume that we are going to continuously for the next 300 years have expanded population. We may come to zero population growth. We may say gee, why did we put everybody out there on a valuable estuary that could have been utilized for so many useful purposes just because of market. Don - Where is enough. represented. Is there enough. That's enough I don't think any of this stuff is a density in which you want to say okay - traffic density on the water. Steve - Well, maybe the negativism's are in the policies. Don - But, lets be direct about it. Is there a certain density. Is there anyway to determine such a thing? What you are saying, there is no such thing as coexistance between say acquaculture and boats, and I don't know if thats true at all. Steve - It is extremely true. If you take one look at the new FDA rules coming down, which is being documented right now in Oyster Bay. Oyster Bay has just scaled down a Condo Marina due to an incredible extent compared to what they wanted to put in because the Flowers Corporation were going to lose a major portion of their ground because of the new rules. Don - Why was this condo setup going to cause that? Steve - Because the new FDA rules are very sepcific statements about numbers of boats and perimeters within which you can harvest shellfish. Don - How did they establish that? Steve - I read them. many people would be or not. They came up with an assumption on how dumping overboard, whether they had heads Don & Peter - Assumption. Steve - But I am talking about the real world now. Don - They are saying real world. Didn't they close everything up a couple of months back? Steve - That's because they didn't do the work. Don - Right - meat ax approach. Steve - But this is something that they have formulated. Don - But it is arbitrary. discriminatory I might add dumping overboard. It just another assumption and for them to assume that people are Steve - Well they are trying to protect the health. Peter - If they are trying to protect the health, why aren't they monitoring and gathering data instead of just making assumption? Steve - They have based it on years and years of data and monitoring. Peter - How much Data? Come on. Steve - I don't know, Your will have to call up the FDA. I am sure there is a document to substantiate everything they say. Richard - Another bureaucratic department in operation. Don - They closed the shellfish beds based on what - no data. We have no data, lets assume the worst. Steve - Well just like the garbage issue in Southold, the State recalled many years ago that in seven or eight years, we are coming in with these rules and regulations, clean up your act get it organized, this is what it is going to be based on. Unfortunately the New York DEC didn't do that as far as shellfishing goes. They didn't get the manpower to go out and monitor all the waters, and now that the deadline has been reached, they haven't done the job. So they closed the waters. Don - So we are going to use the pOlitical club until we can get the increased staff that we need. What are they really trying to do, build a bureaucracy or keep the water clean? Steve - I don't know. I am just telling you what happened. Don - Something that we said on the onset of this thing, we have no data. Very little data in Southold Town. Steve - Scott has alot of data. Don - Where does he get it from. Why dosen't it show up in his work? Steve - I know he did an inventory. He personally went out created an inventory of the harbors, and also used aerial maps. We can discuss this philosophical concept forever, but basically what we have to do is start going through these policies. As far as I am concerned, that is what we have to do. If we have . . to take them totally apart and put them together again, then that is what we will do. Don - Then will we get into a debate with Peter Walsh because he doesn't like our changes or tell us you can't do this because the state policy says That's basically where we are headed. Steve - I don't know. I haven't thought that far ahead. Richard - Don't you think it would not be reasonable for someone from the town to show up and provide some input. Steve - Do you mean from the Planning Board? Richard - No an elected official. Don - How about the supervisor. What is his job? Let him appoint somebody. Steve - He appointed Tom Wickham, Richard - Then let Tom Wickham come here and tell us what he wants us to do. Don - How doe he see this working out. It's been three years with this. Steve - I see this working out. I just wish there was a consultant and that we just had to sit down and advise them. But, we don't have the money, and it was pointed out a long time ago that they could not hire a consultant. Don - I would like to see the outline of this document. I have never worked on a document without either preparing the outline myself, or somebody else prepare that outline, and everybody knows what outline they are working on and where each element fits in. I mean this is a huge outline. Peter - I think a few years back we said that it might be nice to see someone's finished document, but we never saw one. Somebody must have a copy that they could show to us. Steve - Greenport has one. Don - I tried to get the Huntington document just because it is still a controversy. Steve - Smithtown has one. They have a completed document. Don - I could probably get one. Richard - Steve, could you get us copies of Greenport? Steve - I am know more than you. Can you? . . Peter - Lets get the town to get it for us. Steve - I do think we need a liaison from the Planning Dept. to say we need this that and the other thing. I just don't have the time to Steve - Tom Wickham in legislative council Peter - This is legislative stuff. We are going to be writing policies for laws that they are going to be writing laws on for god knows how long. Steve - When are we going to meet and and officially start making our comments on this? Don - How are they going to be collected, how are they going to be processed, by whom, is it up to Peter Walsh to decide what he wants to include or not include? Steve - I don't know. I think you should call Peter Walsh up and ask him some of your questions. Don - If my recollection is right, they are basically telling us hey look, if your local plan does not conform to these policies then you don't have a choice. Wouldn't you say that? Steve - I think you should call him up and have a conversation just to clarify all this because I can't give you an answer to all this. Richard - Can we arrange to have Tom Wickham to be at our next meeting? Steve - Yes, I guess we can. Peter - Originally I thought it was for the town to decide what was important what isn't. Maybe some of these 44 policies are not enough, and maybe some of them do not apply, and Maybe we totally disagree with them, and that seems to have gotten lost over the last three years as you were saying. Every meeting we listen more and more to Peter telling us what the State wants, and we were to amend them delete them, do anything we wanted with them to make them fit Southold Town, and we seem to come around away from that to these are the policies, and you guys have to conform the policies to Southold Town instead of the policies conforming to Southold. Steve - Well here are the 44 policies, so lets start changing them. When do we want to meet again? Next meeting will be Thursday April 12th. Steve will try to get Tom Wickham and Peter Walsh to attend meeting.