HomeMy WebLinkAbout1000-15.-9-10.1, 11.1... (3)
GEORGE RITCHIE LATHAM, JR.
BENNETT ORLOWSKI, JR.
WILLIAM J. CREMERS
KENNETH L. EDWARDS
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PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS.
RICHARD G. WARD
Chainnan
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
June 18, 1996
John J. Raynor, P,E. & L.S., p.c.
P.O. Box 720
Water Mill, NY 11976
RE: Proposed Site Plan for
Cross Sound Ferry
Main Road, (Rt. 25), Orient
SCTM# 1000-15-10.1, 11.1, 15.1 & 3.5
Dear Mr. Raynor,
The Planning Board has received your submission of June 14, 1996, for
review by this Board.
As indicated in your letter, your revised site plan was only a "progress
print" for discussion at the Board's work session on June 17, 1996.
The Board appreciates the additional detail but feels it is still
insufficient to start the coordinated enviormental review.
The internal flow of both pedestran and vechicular traffic from the new
parking area and the terminal should be indicated. Please indicate all
pedestrian walk ways with adaquate protection for foot traffic.
The buffer areas should be indicated together with the double row of
evergreens.
Please refer to the Board's letter of April 23, 1996, (copy enclosed),
which contains the detail required to start the coordinated enviormental
review.
The Board is anxious to start the coordinated review, and would urge you
to have a plan containing sufficient detail to begin the review by the end
of June.
.
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~oDert G~assner
Site Plan Reviewer
cc: W. W. Esseks, Esq.
Laury Dowd, Town Attorney
Southold Town Board
Board of Town Trustees
Frank Yakaboski, Attorney
Zoning Board of Appeals
Edward Forrester, Town Investigator
this office.
.
GEORGE RITCHIE LATHAM. .JR.
BENNETT ORLOWSKI. .JR.
WILLIAM ,J. CREMERS
KENNETH L. EDWARDS
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PLANNING BOARD MEMBER.
RICHARD G. WARD
Chnirman
Town H~Il, 5.'3095 Main ROAd
P.O. Box 1179
Southold. New York 11971
Fax (516) 765.3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
April 23, 1996
Thomas F. Whelan
Esseks, Hefter & Angel
Counselors at Law
108 East Main Street
P.O. Box 279
Riverhead, NY 11901-0279
RE: Proposed site plan for
Cross Sound Ferry
Main Road (Rt. 25), Orient
SCTlVI# 1000-15-10.1, 11.1, 15.1 & 3.5
Dear Mr. Whelan,
The Planning Staff has received your letter of April 11, 1996, containing
a site plan application for the above referenced project.
As you have admitted, the site plan you submitted is very preliminary and
incomplete. I have prepared the attached check list for you to use in
completing the application.
I suggest that your first step should be to come in for a preliminary site
plan conference. Please call for a immediate appointment, since the
intensification of use on the site has created serious problems which we
must resolve as quickly as possible.
This meeting will allow us to discuss the issues you raise in the document
called Preliminary Site Plan Study.
In order to help you arrange your thoughts for the meeting, I have
prepared the following preliminary responses to your questions:
Set backs from property lines are contained in the Town Code Bulk
Schedule 1\1\.
.
.
Evergreen plantings suitable for a maritime environment should be
placed in transitional buffer areas.
Some parking spaces can be eight and one half feet by seventeen
and one half feet to accommodate compact cars, but clearly most of
the spaces should be at a minimum of nine feet by nineteen feet to
accommodate larger cars and vans. The Board prefers a standard
parking space of ten feet by twenty feet.
Please provide more details regarding the Infiltrator and
Contactor units you propose to use in your drainage design. The
Town Engineer can then review this design for suitability at this
location.
All outdoor lighting must be shielded to the property. Show
location, wattage and type of fixture on the plan.
Your traffic engineer should be consulted as to which of YOUI'
proposed multiple opportunities for access between State Route 25
and the Snack Bar parcel would be optimal .
In addition to the above, all other applicable approvals and permits must
be obtained. These include but are not limited to the following; Town
Trustees, New York state Department of Environmental Conservation and
New York State Department of Transportation.
We are anxious to start the coordinated environmental review, however we
need a more detailed site plan to sent to the coordinating agencies.
I look forward to meeting with you no later than April 30.
If you have any questions, or require additional information, please
contact this office.
Sincerely,
Robert G. Kassner
Site Plan Reviewer
Encl.
cc: Planning Board
Thomas Fisher, Senior Building Inspector
Laury Dowd, Town A ttornev
Southold Town Board "
Board of Town Trustees
Frank Yakaboski, Attorney
Jonh Raynor, P.E.
William Esseks. A ttornev
Zoning Board of Appeals
.
.
CHECK LIST
The following changes/additions must be made before the Board can
proceed with its review:
I. Exis ting zoning, including zone lines and dimensions.
2. The name and addresses of landowners of record.
3. The names and addresses of adjoining landowners.
-I. Key map showing location and owners of all adjoining lands within
five hundred (500) feet, as shown on the latest tax records, at a
scale of one (1) inch equals one hundred (100) feet.
5. The location, width and purpose of aU existing and proposed
easements, setbacks, reservations and areas dedicated to public
use within or adjoining the property.
6. A complete outline of other existing easements, deed restrictions
or covenants applying to the property.
7. Site plan drawn at the scale of one (1) inch equals twenty (20)
feet. If all required in formation cannot be shown clearly on one
(I) plan, the information should be separated as foUows:
A. Alignment and schedule plan..
B. Grading and drainage.
C. Landscaping
D. Other, e.g., site utilities.
8. Existing contours with intervals of two (2) feet or less, referred
to mean sea level as per United States Geological Survey datum.
9. Boundaries of any areas subject to flooding or storm water
overflows, tidal bays, saltwater marshes, beaches and aU
freshwater bodies, including wetlands and intermittent streams,
perimeter boundaries of shoreline bluffs, dunes and beaches.
10. The location of existing natural features, including but not
limited to natural drainage swales, water courses, wooded areas
and wetlands, as defined by the New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation and the Board of Trustees of
Southold Town marshes., ponds, bluffs, beaches, kettle holes ,
escarpments, wildlife habitats, flood hazard areas, erosion-prone
areas and trees of six (6) inches in diameter at a point three
(3) feet above the trunk base.
11. The location of any existing cultural and historical features
.
.
within five hundred (500) feet of the property boundaries.
12. The location of proposed buildings or structural improvements,
Indicating set backs from all property lines and horizontal
distances from existing structures.
13. The location and design of all uses not requiring structures,
such as off-street parking and loading areas and pedestrian
circula tion.
14. Show vehicular access between the site and public streets.
15. The location of all utility poles and utility lines within and
adjacent to the property.
16. The location and use of all buildings and structures, including
curb cuts, within two hundred (200) feet of the boundary of the
subject property.
17. The location, direction, power level and time of use for any
proposed outdoor lighting or public address systems.
18. The location and plans for any outdoor signs must be in
accordance with applicable sign regulations.
19. The location and details of aprons, curbs, fencing (type and
location), grading, including existing and proposed
topography with two-foot contours (on site and two hundred(200)
feet beyond the property line) and spot elevations for buildings
and all structures, drainage calculations, details of drainage
structures and watershed areas, where applicable.
20. The location and listing of landscaping, buffering and street tree
plans, including type, material, size, quantity and location.
21. Deeds to all properties.
The above should not be considered a complete list. Town Code Article
XXV should be consulted for additional requirements.
.
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Reports
Design
Environmental Planning
John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
Civil Engineer and Land Surveyor
Deerfield Green P.O. Box 720
Montauk Highway Water Mill, New York 11976
Phone: (516) 726-7600
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June 14, 1996
Robert G. Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer
Planning Board
Town of Southold
53095 Main Road
Southold, New York 11971
Re: Site Plan .
Cross Sound Ferry
Dear Mr. Kassner:
Enclosed please find two prints of the Site Plan we have prepared for the above captioned
application. These are "progress prints" for your discussion with the Planning Board at the work session
on Monday. Also enclosed are drainage computations to accompany the site plan and two prints of the
key map with adjacent owners listed.
Mr. Raynor will call you Monday morning to discuss these drawings with you.
Very truly yours,
JOHN J. RAYNOR, P.E., L.S., p.c.
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Cross Sound Ferry, Inc.
W. W. Esseks, Esq.
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Drainage Computations for
Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
June 13, 1996
Capacities ot drainage tacilities have been computed as tollows:
Gravel trench:
L x W x D (2.33') x 50%
Gravel trench with drainage unit:
Drainage units =
Gravel trench above drainage unit 1 'x 3' x .5 =
Drainage Area "A":
Area:
4,400 s.t. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 117 Lt. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 2' wide gravel trench =
Total:
Drainage Area "B":
Area:
1,200 s.t. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 27 Lt. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 3' wide gravel trench = .
Total:
Drainage Area "e":
Area:
3,600 s.f. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 90 Lt. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 3' wide gravel trench =
Total:
John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
2.6 c.f. per I.f.
1.5 d. per I.f.
4.11 c.f. per I.f.
733 c.t.
481 c.t.
273 c.t.
754 c.t.
200 c.t.
11.1c.f.
95 c.t.
206 c.t.
600 c.f.
370 c.t.
315c.t.
685 c.f.
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Drainage Area "D":
Area:
4,350 s.f. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 144 Lt. ot gravel trench wI drainage units =
with an additional l' wide gravel trench =
Total:
Drainage Area "E":
Area:
18,300 s.f. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 225 Lt. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 9' wide gravel trench =
Total:
Drainage Area "F":
Area:
17,730 s.f. x 0.40 x 5" =
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Provide 225 Lt. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 8' wide gravel trench =
Total:
Drainage Area "G":
Area:
15,225 s.f. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 171 Lf. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 10' wide gravel trench =
Total:
Drainage Area "H":
Area:
14,400 s.f. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 153 Lt. of gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 10' wide gravel trench =
Total:
John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
.
725 c.t.
592 c.t.
144 c.f.
736 c.f.
3,050 c.t.
925 c.t.
2.359 c.t.
3,284 c.f.
2,955 c.f.
925 c.t.
2.097 c.t.
3,022 c.f.
2,538 c.f.
703 c.f.
1.992 c.t.
2,695 c.t.
3,400 c.f.
629 c.t.
1.782 c.f.
2,411 c.f.
.
Drainage Area "I":
Area:
13,500 s.f. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 144 Lt. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 10' wide gravel trench =
Total:
Drainage Area "J":
Area:
16,050 s.f. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 135 lot. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 14' wide gravel trench =
Total:
Drainage Area" K":
Area:
6,090 s.t. x 0.40 x 5" =
Provide 162 lot. ot gravel trench wi drainage units =
with an additional 2' wide gravel trench =
Total:
John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
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.
2,250 c.t.
592 c.t.
1.678 c.t.
2,270 c.f.
2,676 c.f.
555 c.f.
2.202 c.f.
2,757 c.t.
1,015 c.t.
666c.f.
377 c.f.
1 ,043 c.f
.
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John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
Civil Engineer and Land Surveyor
Deerfield Green P.O. Box 720
Montauk Highway Water Mill, New York 11976
Phone: (516) 726-7600
Reports
Design
Environmental Planning
June 6, 1996
Robert G. Kassner
Southold Town Planning Board
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, NY 11971
Re: Cross Sound Ferry
Dear Mr. Kassner:
In concert with our photogrammetric consultant, we have recently
completed a detailed base map of the Cross Sound Ferry site and the adjoining
properties at a scale of 1" = 20'. The new mapping provides more precise
definition of physical features in the area, and will be the foundation of the
remainder of our site planning work.
I have forwarded reduced scale copies of the map to both the Southold
Board of Town Trustees and to the New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation with a request for their regulatory requirements
concerning a limit for the parking area on the seaward side. Setbacks from the
upland boundaries of the property were defined in your letter to Thomas F.
Whelan, Esq. dated May 10, 1996.
Within the envelope that results from the prescribed setbacks, we have
developed three alternative schemes for the arrangement of parking spaces
and access aisles. The total number of parking spaces in all three schemes are
similar, although the circulation patterns and opportunities for interior landscape
areas differ.
We would like to provide you with plans that will detail the grading,
drainage, landscaping and lighting aspects of this proposal, but we believe that
it would be prudent to meet and discuss the Town's views on which of the
schemes would best serve the need prior to proceeding further.
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John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
Civil Engineer and Land Surveyor
Deerfield Green P.O. Box 720
Montauk Highway Water Mill, New York 11976
Phone: (516) 726-7600
Reports
Design
Environmental Planning
June 6, 1996
Robert G. Kassner
Southold Town Planning Board
POBox 1179
Southold, NY 11971
Re: Cross Sound Ferry
Dear Mr. Kassner:
In concert with our photog ram metric consultant, we have recently,
completed a detailed base map of the Cross Sound Ferry site and the adjoining
properties at a scale of 1" = 20'. The new mapping provides more precise
definition of physical features in the area, and will be the foundation of the
remainder of our site planning work.
I have forwarded reduced scale copies of the map to both the Southold
Board of Town Trustees and to the New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation with a request for their regulatory requirements
concerning a limit for the parking area on the seaward side. Setbacks from the
upland boundaries of the property were defined in your letter to Thomas F.
Whelan, Esq. dated May 10, 1996.
01
Within the envelope that results from the prescribed setbacks, we have
developed three alternative schemes for the arrangement of parking spaces
and access aisles. The total number of parking spaces in all three schemes are
similar, although the circulation patterns and opportunities for interior landscape
areas differ.
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We would like to provide you with plans that will detail the grading,
drainage, landscaping and lighting aspects of this proposal, but we believe that
it would be prudent to meet and discuss the Town's views on which of the
schemes would best serve the need prior to proceeding further.
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Me Robert G. Kassner
Re: Cross Sound Ferry
Page 2
June 6, 1996
May I suggest that you review the enclosed map and three sketches and
discuss them with the Planning Board, and advise us as to when we may meet
to focus on one scheme for which appropriate detail will be provided. I believe
that it will also be possible at that time to provide you with the remainder of the
data you have requested for the inception of coordinated SEQR review.
Very truly yours,
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cc:
Cross Sound Ferry
William W. Esseks, Esq.
Frank Yakaboski, Esq.
.
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[J:J
Reports
Design
Environmental Planning
John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
Civil Engineer and Land Surveyor
Deerfield Green P.O. Box 720
Montauk Highway Water Mill, New York 11976
Phone: (516) 726-7600
June 6, 1996
Charles T. Hammon
Supervisor of Natural Resources
NYSDEC - Bldg. 40
Stony Brook, NY 11790-2356
Re: Cross Sound Ferry
Dear Mr. Hamilton:
On behalf of Cross Sound Ferry, we have been engaged in discussions with the
Southold Town Planning Board concerning the provision of additional parking area at the ferry's
Orient facility. Among the issues to be addressed in those discussions is the determination of an
appropriate seaward limit for the area to be devoted to parking.
Mr. Robert Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer for the Town of Southold, has advised us that the
determination of such a limit will depend upon the regulatory requirements of your Department
and of the Southold Town Trustees. Accordingly, Mr. Kassner has asked that we write to you to
inquire as to the applicable regulatory setback, under the NYSDEC jurisdiction, for a permeable
parking area at the Cross Sound Ferry site.
To assist you in your consideration of this request, I am enclosing two copies of a reduced
scale topographic map of the site. To avoid possible confusion in the interpretation of your
response, perhaps you could mark up one of the maps and return it to me with notations as to
which criteria are employed in defining the requested line.
~~.
hn J. Raynor, P.E., L.S.
Ene!.
cc:
Cross Sound Ferry
William W. Esseks, Esq.
Frank Yakaboski, Esq.
Robert G. Kassner ~
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Reports
Design
Environmental Planning
John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
Civil Engineer and Land Surveyor
Deerfield Green P.o. Box 720
Montauk Highway Water Mill, New York 11976
Phone: (516) 726-7600
June 6, 1996
Board of Town Trustees
Town of Southold
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, NY 11971
Re: Cross Sound Ferry
Gentlemen:
On behalf of Cross Sound Ferry, we have been engaged in discussions with the
Southold Town Planning Board concerning the provision of additional parking area at the ferry's
Orient facility. Among the issues to be addressed in those discussions is the determination of an
appropriate seaward limn for the area to be devoted to parking.
Mr. Robert Kassner, Sne Plan Reviewer for the Town of Southold, has advised us that the
determination of such a limit will depend upon the regulatory requirements of your Board and of
the NYSDEC. Accordingly, Mr. Kassner has asked that we write to you to inquire as to the
applicable regulatory setback, under the Trustees jurisdiction, for a permeable parking area at the
Cross Sound Ferry site.
To assist you in your consideration of this request, I am enclosing two copies of a reduced
scale topographic map of the site. To avoid possible confusion in the interpretation of your
response, perhaps you could mark up one of the maps and return it to me with notations as to
which criteria are employed in defining the requested line.
Notwithstanding the above, Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc. maintains that it is unclear
as to whether the' Trustees have jurisdiction in this matter.
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John J. Ra:n:J:;:.~.
Encl.
cc: Cross Sound Ferry
William W. Esseks, Esq.
Frank Yakaboski, Esq. ~
Robert G. Kassner ...-'
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To: South old Town Planning Board
Since 1992, the Southold Town Trustees has administered the Coastal Hazard Zone,
and it continues to be within our jurisdiction. At Orient Point, in the area of the site plan
for Cross Sound Ferry, Trustees' jurisdiction also extends specifically from the
high-water mark to a distance of 75 feet inland.
A determination of a wetland line should be made in coordination with NYS Department
of Environmental Conservation and NYS Department of State.
The Trustees respectfully request that the following concerns be addressed in the
course of the ongoing SEQRA process:
1. Coordination with NYS DEC, which has jurisdiction within 300 feet of the water and
coordination with FEMA, whose maps indicate floodplain dimensions and borders.
2. Coordination with NYS Department of State to assure their policies are followed.
3 Permitting history of the Cross Sound Ferry vis-a-vis dredging, placement of soils,
and what may be infill and accretion into wetlands areas.
4. Although the CFS owns 4.1 acres of underwater land, this land and its use should be
examined in any review of plans for intensification on the property in question; the
underwater land was omitted from the current siteplan being reviewed.
5. At the time that CSF applied for and was granted permission to develop the 69-car
parking lot, several permits and amendments were issued by NYS DEC to "maintain the
dock." In truth, the development at this time was much broader, including but not limited
to the construction of a bridge tower and replacement dock to enable passengers to get
on and off the higH-speed ferry. The Trustees assert that a portion of the work done,
was done without an application to the Trustees, and that application has still not been
received. The construction of the high speed docking structures and the dredging
activities require both Town wetland and CEHA permits.
6. This is a Critical Environmental Area and as such proposed development must be
approved and conducted in accordance with stricter guidelines.
7.The Trustees are also concerned with the unanswered questions of the effect of the
proposed action on increased runoff and pollution from the Main Road into the storm
drains on the adjacent property of the Plum Island Animal Disease Research
Laboratory into Gardiners Bay.
8. The high-water mark has changed in this area, as evidenced by aerial photographs
from decades ago, and has changed as recently as this past winter with continued
accretion of beach land to the east of the ferry docks.
9 It appears from tax maps that there is a section of public land that sits in the middle
of CSF's project - will public access to this property be guaranteed?
We are eager to contribute to this process, and look forward to having our comments
included in the findings of the Town Planning Board. Please feel free to contact the
Trustees for any amplification. Thank. you.
South old Town Trustees '.!
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N.w Ya,' State D.pa"m~!af Env'..nmentaJ Can~Natlan · ........ ~
Building 40 - SUNY. Stony Brook. New York 11790-2356 ; _ _
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'A~Y I 6 1996 ....
Michael D. Zagata
Commissioner
May 10, 1996
Mr. Albert Krupski, President
Town of Southold Trustees
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, NY 11971
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Dear Mr. ~pski:
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This letter is to inform you of the results of my investigation of violations alleged by
Mr. Harold Watson concerning the Cross Sound Ferry.
I inspected the site on May 3, 1996 to determine if any violations of the NYS Tidal
Wetlands Act were occurring at the ferry terminal. At that time, only work on the steel pier was
in progress. That work is covered under permit 1-4738-1027/00002-0 which expires 2/28/97.
All debris from this project must be removed from the NYSDEC regulated adjacent area upon
completion of the project. The debris is currently being stock piled in the area permitted to be
utilized for upland dredge material storage.
The dredge material is authorized as currently exists on the eastern parcels of the Ferry
property. This activity was authorized under permit 10-88-1164 which expired on 12/31/95.
Excess material is being utilized by NYS Parks to nourish the beach and dunes along Orient State
Park.
The Ferry was also authorized to construct the parking lot on the western parcel under
permit 1-4738-1027/00001-0. This work has been completed. A permit also exists for
maintenacne of the entire facility 10-84-0257 which expires 7/31/99.
I did not fmd any permit non-compliance or violations of the Tidal Wetlands Act at this
facility .
Sincerely,
~CA-~
Louis A Chiarella
Regional Manager, Bureau of Marine Habitat
Protection
cc: Charles Hamilton(Mr. Harold Watson
GEORGE RITCHIE LATHAM, JR.
BENNETT ORLOWSKI, JR.
WILLUU~J.CREMERS
KENNETH L. EDWARDS
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PLANNING BOARD MEMB~
RICHARDG. WARD
Chairman
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
May 10, 1996
Thomas F. Whelan
Esseks, Hefter & Angel
Counselors at Law
108 East Main Street
P.O. Box 279
Riverhead, NY 11901-0279
RE: Proposed site plan for
Cross Sound Ferry
Main Road (Rt. 25), Orient
SCTM# 1000-15-9-10.1, 11.1, 15.1 & 3.5
Dear Mr. Whelan,
The Planning Board has reviewed the issues you raised at our meeting of
April 30, 1996, regarding setbacks.
The fifteen (15') foot wide setback on the east and west sides of the
property are acceptable to the Board as shown on your preliminary site
plan dated April 8, 1996.
The buffer on the north side of the property must be 20' wide and should
be placed south and parallel to the road, (right- of- way), that is
mentioned in the deed to tax parcel 1000-15-9-3.5, to give access to the
residential premises immediately to the north.
Town Code 100-214. (Landscaped Parking Area) contains interior
landscaping requirements for parking lots. You should come up with a
proposal for satisfying this requirement. I suggest that you consult with
your nursery and garden supply consultants to determine the most suitable
plantings for interior and buffer areas.
'-,
.
.
I will be discussing with the Planning Board the need for a transitional
buffer between the residential portion of the property (1000-15-9-3.5) and
the business parcel "Snack Bar" (1000-15-9-15.1), in conformance with
Town Code 100-213.
As discussed at the meeting, you will ask the Town Trustees and the
NYSDEC about their jurisdiction over the waterfront side of the project.
Please submit copies of your requests and the responses of these agencies.
For purposes of moving the SEQRA process forward, I suggest you make
conservative assumptions as to setbacks based on elevations. We believe
that the Trustees and DEC responses, together with the SEQRA process,
will aid in finalizing the issue of setbacks along the waterfront.
Please note, the Board of Appeals in reviewing your use variance may
apply additional requirements as to setbacks and other matters under their
jurisdiction.
The Planning Board will start the coordinated environmental review upon
the receipt of a 1 "=20' site plan incorporating the information specified
in our letter dated April 23, 1996, (copy enclosed). Without the site plan
information specified, the public and reviewing agencies will lack the
information needed to adequately evaluate your plan. However, in order to
move the environmental process along, it will not be necessary to show two
foot contours on this particular site plan for the purposes of starting
the environmental coordination. We will at this time accept published
topographical contours from the USGS, NYSDOT, and the SCDPW.
Two foot contours will be required however, later in the environmental
review.
The Planning Board feels that the site plan process must move promptly.
The Board urges you to have a complete site plan by the end of May, so
that the SEQRA process can move forward.
If you have any questions, or require further assistance, please contact
me at this office.
Encl.
cc: Planning Board
Thomas Fisher, Senior Building Inspector
Laury Dowd, Town Attorney
Southold Town Board
Board of Town Trustees
Frank Yakaboski, Attorney
John Raynor, P.E.
William Esseks, Attorney
Zoning Board of Appeals
.
.
MEMORANDUM TO FILE
FROM:
Ro bert G. Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer
SUBJECT:
Meeting with Cross Sound Ferry representatives
regarding site plan at Orient Point
SCTM# 1000-15-9-10.1, 11.1, 15.1 & 3.5
DATE:
May 1, 1996
A meeting was held on April 30, 1996, regarding the above referenced
project.
Attending:
Thomas F. Whelan, Esseks, Hefter & Angel
William W. Esseks, Esseks, Hefter & Angel
John Raynor, P.E.
Rick Vanderkrif, P.E.
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
Robert G. Kassner, Site Plan Reviewer
Mr. Raynor had several questions regarding required set backs for
landscaping buffers and parking areas. Mr. Kassner will research the
Code and get back to Mr. Raynor.
Mr. Esseks indicated he was anxious to have the SEQRA process
started as soon as possible. Ms. Scopaz indicated that the site plan must
be more complete then the preliminary concept submitted before it can be
sent to the coordinating agencies.
Mr. Raynor will contact the Trustees and the D.E.C. to determine their
jurisdiction and set backs on the waterfront.
.
.
-
Ms. Scopaz indicated that the Board of Appeals, in reviewing the use
variance, may apply additional requirements as to set backs and other
matters under their jurisdiction.
Mr. Kassner indicated that he will research vegetative plantings that may
be suitable for this site.
Mr. Raynor said that he would send a copy of the Dunn Engineering
traffic report to the Planning Board.
Finally, Ms. Scopaz informed Mr. Esseks of the NYSDOT'S meeting
with the Town In March whereby the DOT expressed it's willingness to
consider permitting Cross Sound Ferry to incorporate the use of the entire
State R-O-W perpendicular to the waterfront into it's design for the site.
Mention was made of the Towns willingness to permit this cooperation
provided adequate provision was made for public parking, public access
via a scenic overlook and a turnaround at the end of the R-O-W adjacent
to the water.
cc: Linda Kowalski
Jill Doherty
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,.' APPE~S BOARD MEMBERS
Gerard P. Goehringer. Chairman
Serge Doyen, Jr.
James Dinizio, Jr.
Robert A. Villa
Lydia A. Tortora
Southold Town Hall
53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold. New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-1823
Telephone (516) 765-1809
BOARD OF APPEALS
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
May 8, 1996
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By Facsimile and Regular Mail
Thomas F. Whelan, Esq.
Esseks, Hefter & Angel
108 East Main Street
Riverhead, NY 11901
Re: Variance Application for Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
Dear Mr. Whelan:
As a follow-up to our conversations, I would like to confirm
that the variance documents submitted have been transmitted through
the Town Clerk's Office and assigned Appl. File No. 4380. As
indicated by our previous letter, these documents have been
duplicated and forwarded to the Chairman and ZBA Members for
review and inspections at our May 1, 1996 regular session. At that
time I confirmed that it was the Zoning Board's position that the
Planning Board assume lead agency status on this project. The ZBA
agreed and asked to be included as a directly involved agency
through all the SEQRA steps.
)<'01.' your update, we were advised that you met with Planning
Board representatives on April 30th, and that it is expected that our
departments will be furnished with a complete preliminHry site plan
map (showing all setbacks, contours, easement areas shown in deeds
or other recordings, and adjusted number of parking spaces) in
order that the reviews may continue (including SEQRA reviews).
Also, it is my understanding (after speaking with Bob Kassner
today) that the Planning Board is considering your request to vary
the number of vehicle parking spaces based upon different parking
size calculations (69 spaces to 80) as part of the site pIan revIew,
and that your firm is working directly with the PIHnning Board at
this planning stage on this issue as well. Therefore it is not
necessary for a duplicate review (by the ZBA). Please keep us
advised of developments on this issue or other intentions affecting
the site_
Puge
To:
2 - May 8, 19'
Thomas F. Whelan, Esq.
Variance Application for Cross Sound Ferry
.
He:
At this time we will await receipt of nine (9) prints of the new
site plan prints (and any other information made available to us).
Once received by Planning and ZBA offices, this map will be be
included and circulated by the lead agency in the SEQRA process.
A scpar'dte filing fee for the westerly parcel will not be requested
since it is being processed by the Planning Board under the site plan
regulations.
Please feel ffi,e to call me at 765-1809 if I may be of any
assistance in these procedures.
Very truly yours,
Linda Kowalski
cc: ZBA Chairman and Members
Planning Board V- /'
R. Kassner, Planning Office V
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Reports
Design
Environmental Planning
John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., p.c.
Civil Engineer and Land Surveyor
Deerfield Green P.O. Box 720
Montauk Highway Water Mill, New York 11976
Phone: (516) 726-7600
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April 30, 1996
MAY 6 1996
Robert G. Kassner
Southold Town Planning Board
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, NY 11971
Dear Mr. Kassner:
Re: Cross Sound Ferry
Your letter of April 23, 1996, addressed to Thomas F. Whelan,
concerning the Cross Sound Ferry site, requested that the landowner's
representatives meet with you no later than April 30. This morning, a meeting
was held in South old Town Hall, attended by myself and Richard J. Van de Kieft
of my office, Thomas F. Whelan and William W. Esseks, attorneys for the
landowner, and by Valerie Scopaz and yourself, representing the Town.
Our discussions followed generally the topics raised in my preliminary
site plan report and the corresponding preliminary responses in your 4/23 letter.
We discussed the need to formally determine the required setbacks for the
proposed parking area, since the definition of an envelope that limits the
parking surface is a first step in further development of a more detailed site plan.
As the discussion progressed, you indicated that the matter is, indeed,
ambiguous, and that you would seek clarification of the actual setbacks to be
used from the Planning Board. I pointed out the notations on the preliminary site
plan that identify the source, within the Town Code, of the setbacks shown. It is
my understanding that you intend to advise me, in writing, as to the setback
dimensions to be used along the westerly, northerly, and easterly upland
boundaries, and that the setback dimensions you give to me will define the
edge of the parking surface. That is to say, based on the dimensions you will
give to me, the area between the edge of the parking surface and the property
boundary will be sufficient to accommodate zoning requirements, landscape
screening, and any other buffer requirements that may apply. I also understand
that it is the applicant's responsibility to inquire of the Town Trustees and the
NYSDEC as to the extent of jurisdiction of each of those agencies along the
waterfront side of the parking surface, and I intend to make such an inquiry, in
writing, immediately.
.
.
We also discussed the types of plantings anticipated by your second
response, and you agreed to explore that matter further with the Planning Board
chairman. You mentioned that the plantings shown on the site plan for the
westerly parking area might suffice, but I remain concerned because some of
them are noted generically as "4' - 6' evergreens," and a more specific call is
certainly required than that. I trust you will advise me at the conclusion of your
discussion with the Planning Board.
We touched briefly on the issue of parking stall size, and it was
concluded that additional copies of our traffic consultants' report will be
furnished to you when the more detailed site plan is completed. Depending
upon our findings when the parking surface envelope is better defined, we may
provide alternate layouts using two or more sets of parking stall dimensions so
that a comparison can be made.
Ms. Scopaz described your interests regarding site lighting, which she
characterized as a reasonable approach. We will propose a minimal number of
site lighting fixtures of the shielded type, so as to minimize off site perception of
lighting.
Ms. Scopaz also described some thoughts regarding the potential for
incorporation of some of the NYSDOT owned land in an expanded site plan.
We will convey those thoughts to our client.
In summary, we await your written advice as to the limits of the parking
surface envelope, and will inquire as to the water-side setbacks ourselves. We
will proceed with a more-detailed site plan as expeditiously as possible, but we
do not anticipate its completion until our detailed mapping effort is completed
toward the end of the coming month.
grq~
John J. Raynor, P.E., L.S.
cc:
Cross Sound Ferry
William W. Esseks, Esq.
.
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ESSEKS, HEFTER & ANGEL
COUNSELORS AT LAW
108 EAST MAl N STREET
P.O.BOX279
RIVERHEAD, N.Y. 11901-0279
WILLIAM W. ESSEK$
MARCIA Z. HEFTER
STEPHEN R. ANGEL
.JANE ANN R. KRATZ
(5 [6) 369-1700
WATER MILL OFFICE
MONTAUK HIGHWAY
P. O. Box 570
WATER MILL, N.Y. 11976
(516) 726-6633
TELECOPIER NUMBER (516) 369-2065
...JOHN M. WAGNER
WILLIAM POWER MALONEY
THOMAS F. WHELAN
April 11, 1996
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JlAIID DBLIVERBD
Southold Town Planning Board
53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
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RE: Application of Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
and Adam C. Wronowski
Dear Sir/Madam:
Pursuant to advice from Planning Board Special Counsel,
Francis J. Yakaboski, Esq., I submit for filing the following:
1. 9 copies of Application for Consideration of a site
Plan dated April 11, 1996;
2. 9 copies of Preliminary Site Plan Study for Cross Sound
Ferry Services, Inc. dated April, 1996, prepared by
John J. Raynor, P.E. & L.S., P.C.;
3. 9 copies of the Long Environmental Assessment Form
("LEAF") originally prepared in connection with
applications to Town of Southold Zoning Board of
Appeals;
4. 9 copies of Preliminary site Plan dated April 8, 1996;
5. Our check made payable to the Town of Southold in the
sum of $600.00, representing the filing fee.
I understand from Mr. Yakaboski that the application will
now be processed. I also understand from Mr. Yakaboski that a
meeting will be arranged, hopefully during the week of April 29,
1996, between the Town's consultants and the applicant's
consultants.".m '. "_'_... _.....__........
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ESSEKS, HEFTER & ANGEL.
Cou NSELORS AT LAW
Southold Town Planning Board
April 11, 1996
Page 2
This application is, of course, submitted without prejudice,
pursuant to the direction of Hon. Patrick Henry, Supreme Court,
Suffolk County, reserving all rights and claims to all pre-
existing legal, conforming and/or non-conforming uses.
~~~
Thomas F. Whelan
/ml
Enclosures
,
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.~G BOARD MEMBERS
~C!l,\RD G, WARD
Chmrman
E RITCHIE LATHAM. .JR.
",-;ET!' ORLOWSKI. .JR.
WAM J, CREMERS
.;o.oETH L. EDWARDS
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Town Hall, .53095 Main Rond
P,O, Box 1179
Southold. New York 11971
Fax (516\ 765.3136
Telephone (516\ 765.1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
omas F. Whelan
eks, Hefter & Angel
unselors at Law
08 East Main Street
.0. Box 279
llverhead, NY 11901-0279
Proposed site plan for
Cross Sound Ferry
Main Road (R t. 25), Oden t
SCTM# 1000-15-10.1, 11.1, 15.1 & 3.5
The Planning Staff has received your letter of April 11, 1996, containing
a site plan application for the above referenced project.
As you have admitted, the site plan you submitted is very preliminary and
Incomplete. I have prepared the attached check list for you to use in
completing the application.
I suggest that your first step should be to come in for a preliminary site
plan conference. Please call for a immediate appointment, since the
intensification of use on the site has created serious problems which we
must resolve as quickly as possible.
This meeting will allow us to discuss the issues you raise in the document
called Preliminary Site Plan Study.
In order to help you arrange your thoughts for the meeting, I have
prepared the following preliminary responses to your questions:
Set backs from property lines are contained in the Town Code Bulk
Schedule AA.
,
. .
Evergreen plantings suitable for a maritime environment should be
placed in transitional buffer areas.
Some parking spaces can be eight and one half feet by seventeen
and one half feet to accommodate compact cars, but clearly most of
the spaces should be at a minimum of nine feet by nineteen feet to
accommodate larger cars and vans. The Board prefers a standard
parking space of ten feet by twenty feet.
Please provide more details regarding the Infiltrator and
Contactor units you propose to use in your drainage design.
Town Engineer can then review this design for suitability at
ioca tion.
The
this
All outdoor lighting must be shielded to the property. Show
location, wattage and type of fixture on the plan.
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Your traffic engineer should be consulted as to which of your
proposed multiple opportunities for access between State Route 25
and the Snack Bar parcel would be optimal .
c addition to the above, all other applicable approvals and permits mus t
: obtained. These include but are not limited to the following; Town
_rustees, New York state Department of Environmental Conservation and
:cw York State Department of Transportation.
... are anxious to start the coordinated environmental review, however we
~d a more detailed site plan to sent to the coordinating agencies.
I look forward to meeting with you no later than April 30.
U you have any questions, or require additional information, please
c:ontact this office.
,Sincerely,
Robert G. Kassner
,Site Plan Reviewer
Encl.
Cc: Planning Board
Thomas Fisher, Senior Building Inspector
Laury Dowd, Town Attorney
Southold Town Board
Board of Town Trustees
Frank Yakaboski, Attorney
Jonh Raynor, P.E.
William Esseks, Attorney
Zoning Board of Appeals
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CHECK LIST
The following changes/additions must be made before the Board can
proceed with its review:
I. Exis ting zoning, including zone lines and dimensions.
2. The name and addresses of landowners of record.
3. The names and addresses of adjoining landowners.
4. Key map showing location and owners of all adjoining lands within
five hundred (500) feet, as shown on the latest tax records, at a
scale of one (1) inch equals one hundred (100) feet.
5. The location, width and purpose of all existing and proposed
easements, setbacks, reservations and areas dedIcated to public
use within or adjoining the property.
6. A complete outline of other existing easemen ts, deed restrictions
or covenants applying to the property.
7. Site plan drawn at the scale of one (1) inch equals twenty (20)
feet. If all required in formation cannot be shown clearly on one
(1) plan, the information should be separated as follows:
A. Alignment and schedule plan..
B. Grading and drainage.
C. Landscaping
D. Other, e. g., site utilities.
8. Existing contours with intervals of two (2) feet or less, referred
to mean sea level as per United States Geological Survey datum.
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9. Boundaries of any areas subject to flooding or storm water
overflows, tidal bays, saltwater marshes, beaches and all
freshwater bodies, including wetlands and intermittent streams,
perimeter boundaries of shoreline bluffs, dunes and beaches.
10. The location of existing natural features, including but not
limited to natural drainage swales, water courses, wooded areas
and wetlands, as defined by the New York State Department of
Environmental Conservation and the Board of Trustees of
Southold Town marshes, ponds, bluffs, beaches, ketlleholes,
escarpments, wildlife habitats, flood hazard areas, erosion-prone
areas and trees of six (6) inches in diamet'er at a point three
(3) feet above the trunk base.
11. The location of any existing cultural and historical features
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within five hundred (500) feet of the property boundaries.
12. The location of proposed buildings or structural improvements,
indicating set backs from all property lines and horizontal
distances from existing structures.
13. The location and design of all uses not requiring structures,
such as off-street parking and loading areas and pedestrian
circula tion .
14. Show vehicular access between the site and public streets.
15. The location of all utility poles and utility lines within and
adjacent to the property.
16. The location and use of all buildings and structures, induding
curb cuts, within two hundred (200) feet of the boundary of the
subject property.
17. The location, direction, power level and time of use for any
proposed outdoor lighting or public address systems.
18. The location and plans for any outdoor signs must be in
accordance with applicable sign regulations.
19. The location and details of aprons, curbs, fencing (type and
location), grading, including existing and proposed
topography with two-foot contours (on site and two hundred(200)
feet beyond the property line) and spot elevations for buildings
and all structures, drainage calculations, details of drainage
structures and watershed areas, where .applicable.
20. The location and listing of landscaping, buffering and street tree
plans, including type, material, size, quantity and location.
21. Deeds to all properties.
The above should not be considered a complete list. Town
XXv should be consulted for additional requirements.
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RIDING
THE
WAVES
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FERRY SERVICES BRINGING
TOURISM AND COMMERCE
Continued from Pap 1
Simpson sees the Cross Sound-Foxwoods
link as a solid example of how southeastern
Connecticut can benefit from tour packaging.
Closer to the ferry dock. she thinks that
downtown New London is Idl!a.Jly situated to
benefit from the "ow of ferry traffic.
In New London, efforts are under way "to
create attractions that will get people into
downtown." say1 Bruce Hyde, the city's
director 0' dewlopment and flannlng.
Plans for II Maritime Heritage Park.
Visitor's Center and walking trail through the
historic seaport are way1 in which New
London hopes to capture more business from
ferry riders.
Boom ti..... for feny -"'tors
Some ferry and tour bus operatol'S ace
coordinating to transport visitol'S to Hartford,
where they tour tbe Marie Twain House and
GherplaCes.. _.u_"---.
. -None tt.ve benefited more fro. m the boom
in ferry travel than Connecticut's felT)'
operaton, led by C~ ~nd F~ Services.
~ 6iIf of Cross Soundfs --+-
passengers come from Long bland, so much of
Its marketing focus is acnm the Sound. Just
10 percent of tbe company's passengers are
trom Connecticut, so Cross Sound is working
to increase its Connecticut market. One tie-in
is with an East Hartford compmy, Tours of
Distinction, which takes Connecticut ~idents
on motorcoach tours to vineyards and otber
attractions on Long Island..
Cross Sound is the largest of the terry
operations in Connecticut, operating five
vessels between New London and Block.
bland. A sister company, Nelseco Navigation
Inc., oper-ates a terry betwftn New London
and Block Island. And yet: another affiliate.
Interstate Navigation Ine., has four vessels
linking Rhode Island to Block.lsland.. ._
ring the peak summer seasor(Cross
Sound moves about 50,000 vehicles and
150.000 people back. and torth berween New
London and Orient Point on Long Island.
Annually, the company carries about 850.000
passengen and 300,000 fthieles, including
tractor-trailen and buses.
... _ .a..fI--^- _._-..IIE'--x~'s...a.t1....b...-rwlIlnO'Nfromthedockedhlny
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-'- Cross Sound is a nice little privately held
family business, John P. Wronowski says as
he takes, a cigarette out of the pack tucked into
his T-shirt pocket.
At tint glance, Wronowski. in hi.!
turquoise T-shirt and wom~eans.looks as if he
knows his way around engme rooms and
shipyards - and he does.
. tor a man who runs more than a hail-
dozen maritime-related companies with
combined sales of at least $15 million a year,
Wronowsld preten a low profile. But the 47.
year-old owner and president of Cross Sound
dearly has both mechanical prowess and
business savvy. .
Twenty years ago, the California Institute
of Technology gn.duate and a partner. J. Brent
Lynch. launched Cross Sound with thref!
vessels bought from a New London terry
operator. Wronowski, who later bought out his
partner, was no rookie.
Indeed, he practically grew up on the car
ferries that his father opented for more than
50 years between Rhode LsJand and Block
Island.
Although the Sea Jet is getting plenty of
attention, the crown jewel of the Cross Sound
neet is The John H., a 23o..foot vessel that can
carry 120 can and 1,000 pa.s.sengen.
Built for Cross Sound in 1989, the boat
Connecticut car ferries
SOURCE: CroaSound F~
Tho"""'''''''''
._In addition to the big boats that operate in
Long Island Sound, the Connecticut Department
of Trensportation operates two caf Ierrie8 on Ih8
Connecticut River.
The G1astonburylRodCy Hill Ferry on Route 160
in Rocky HiD calls its8tf the nation's Oldest contln-
uousty operating ferry service. The seasonal
operation leaturn an open ftatboat t~ed back.
and lor1h across the rlvef by a towboat. The ser.
vice operates daily from May 1 through Oct. 31.
The ChesterlHadlyme Ferry on Route 148
crosses the Connec:ticut River neaf Gillette
Castle State Park. This small ferry operates dai"
from April through Dec. 19. except on
ThanksgMng.
The cost 10 Ode each Is 1225 a car and 75
cents a passenger.
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THE
FERRY SERVICES BRINGING
TOURISM AND COMMERCE.
N
By GREGORY SANDLER
special 10 711. QJuranl
'DR LONDON _ High-tech tranSportation has
come to the Connecticut shore of Long Island
Sound, thanks to a wave-piercing catamaran that is
now whisking people across the Sound in about 35
atinutes.
Cross Sound Ferry Services Inc., based on the Thames
River, inaugurated the neW service in July to' meet increased
passenger demand for speedy access to the FolCWoods Resort
Casino on the Mashantucket Pequot Indian reservation near
Ledyard.
. The 6.year-old Sea Jet I, with its two parallel hulls and
aerodynamic design, is the latest addition to a flourishing
tranSportation business connecting Connecticut to Long Island,
Block Island and Fishers Island. .
Ferry operators offer year.round connections from bot1\.
New London and Bridgeport, further opening the stale's
boundaries ....,. and its economy - to thousands of tourists and
commuters.
Cross Sound already has joint marketing agreements with
FOlCWOOds, the Long Island Railroad, the Long Island
Convention and Visitor's Bureau, and the Slale of New York.
''There is a lot of potential to bring people over," Cross
sound general manager Richard MacMurray says.
Donna Simpson, executive director of the Mystic Coast and
Country Travel and Tourism Council, says ferry riders
. represent a huge, untapped resource for the region. But, she
adds, "we have to be able 10 move people from the ferry 10 some
of the lourist spots in the area.".
Please see Riding, Page 8
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N..., London', C'f)mblntd tnln.bu. ~
"Irion It JU~1 . few hund~d: I~ away from l
eron Sound', terminal, I"d: I 1.200.(:Ir
munldpl' parkln~ 'Ir'~t It IKro!;S Ihe .treel..
MOfHWer, ,c~S!llo 1.95 likes jult minutes.
MIlCMuITI)'.' fonner banker, sayslhere
Is .Iso room for mort busine5!ll and commuter
h"affie. The company estimate! Ihl' ont of
e~f)' 10 of ils panen~en b business-rel.red,
computd with fiyt In 10 ~ho Ire on v.lation
The resl ride for personal mlSons,
Another potential for new bWline!s is C8.r
(efT)' ,erviee 10 the Soulh fork of Long !shlnd.
eroS-! Sound w.nl~ to run leny .ervice 10
Mont.uk. aboul21.S mUes .....y. .nd is
Ic:tfyely looldn( lor I tenninaJ lite. Ongoing
.nempt.IO let up .hop In the lucrative market
hive thus fu met .nth stronC local opposttion.
''local zoRIn<< Is an lssue. M P.tAcMWTlY 11)'1.
Cross Sound has no direct compeUtlon
on Ib current runs 10 Lon( blind. The VUdnC
Fleet oper.let pl.5senler-onlysemce between
N", London and Montauk..
Paul B. Fonberg. Ihe Ihlrd-r;enendon
presldenl of Vlldnr;, also trOUld like to run a
ar feny between N~ London .nd Mont.uk.
The company Illready hu a tt'f'nUnll In
Montauk, bullllso hu not bad .ny luck leltln<<
local J:onlnl IpprovaI for cars.
For now, ForsberJ P)'S, "we don't
compele q:alnsl rCros. Soundlalan. We ha~
I rmaU. Ultle nlcf.e."
Vlklnl prvvfd@ll Sef\SOIIaI.mrk:e from
Mother'. Day In May to CoIumbua Day In
October, with twO tttpJII day on Wedn~days,
FridaY' and Sundays between New London
t.....S-..Ic:IJt...HaoflorllCour.... and Montauk.
Vlldnl'sl3S.foot, double-dedi.
to b_ will"'" to take th..., t. th. ...."'oed. R.-t ea.a____ Bln~RI~F~Iod\,~11WiI UiS\06ftlttftJ
l.tontauk is about 1,500. It round-trip tlckel b
Includes lhree cabl rUS, a loullle, a snack Boston .nd Nantucket, C'Mt aboUt S10 mUllon $30. FonbeTlalso has bt'm lTYin(t: to creale a
bar, and even on.bo d movies. new. Wronowskl "'ouldn't d1,dose ,.,hll he tie-In with Foiwoods. But, much 10 hls dlsmay,
Another of Ole pany','errie, wn buill paid for the boat, ....hich had been .Ittlng Idle he hIS been unable to .et'\ll'e I .ite In New
10tJlnspontroops ring World War 11_ The for about a year. london Ihat can accommodale butes.
Cape Henleren, I 3:t .looC ship that was used Bul, he sa)'S, Cre" Sound decided to buy Meanwhne,in Brldceport, the Brldg~
in Ihe Allied landin",t Normandy. It 'i'o'IlS Ihe used Sea J~ rather than a new hMl to and Port Jenerson Steamboal Co. has been
returbbhed In 19113,~nd now can carry 100 gau~e the market while mlnhnlrlnt: Its Initial providing serriee across the Sound IIlnce P.T.
cars and 800 pusenl~t5. capllalln...utment. 'Th~,boa1 fltl our needl, !Jllmum helped to loundlhe companytn 1883.
Th~ passen,er-J. Iy Sea Jel provide, an .nd sotffd our problem, he 11)'1. . Today, It Is owned by McAlllS1er TowIn8"
Illtemltlve 10 Cross ound'l larter bo~ts. 01 course, CroSS Sound tlVU anxjoull to IInd Tnnsport Inc., whteh ~Ies . number
WronOWlId says Iha casino-bound plssenger bring the bolt on line during the bu'Y IUmmer of maritbM businesses IIlon<< the East Coast,
traffic p-ew '0 J1Ipi~' durin< the pasllhree monthJ. So the boat .11 pres~ed qulckly Into and In Pumo Rico. .
'."it "'''15 ~'dinJ: our regular (emu, lervice, makln(t: six round-trip CTOssln<s I day. Steamboltlervlat ended In 1961 but the
a wat no plt'e to ,;11. Our Imm~di.le Sin~ lis '!laiden voyat:e In Long bland, Bridgeport and rort Jefferson opentl~n notIV
go 0 let peopl. "If of the u.lstlnr; bolll m~hlnlClI (t:htchH hl\'e resulted In . few has two veslels that provide ~ar.round
and onto this new bQ.t." day' nf down lime: Bullhe "essel....m t>e aervlce. Durln~ reak WalIon, each bolt CIIn
The 4.400.hotse)ower Su Jel, which overhluled and ....lIIlerized liter thl, year al ClIfT)' U many U 100 \OI!hlclt'l IIlId 1,000
includes two dle"el e,pnes, tn...els al30 knots Thamel Shipyard and R.epalr Co. Inc. - passengers. says Frederick A. lilli, 'f'Ice
tabout 3S miles all h.ur). DrI...en by ",at!T.jet another 01 Cross Sound. sisler companies, pruldf!ntand (t:eneral manllllger.
propubion, It can mu:e Ihe 16-mlle crossing In After thlt, Wronowskl expects the Sea Jet 10 Annually, Ihe ferries serve lboul150,OOO
lbout one.third of Itr time thai IIllkel the operate year.round. people and 285,000 \OI!hldes. The bol~ make
rompany', olher ves,el, 10 make the lrip A IIme-dIY. round-lrip ticket on the Sn the 14.mile CTossllllln I little more lhlllln an
Th~bolt was deSlp:ned In Austnhl. and I, Jel!'O"lS no, ('('mrlred with 113 on the other hour
the only nne of Its kind openttn~ In Ihe United boaU. Rul FoX'll'oods patrons on the Sel Jet 'AllhoulCh summer Is the peak atuon,
Slales II features C'('Im(ortable leahnt: for IS recej,oe SZS In peru when Ihey bolrd the HIlI.ays an awt'Sstve promotional effort on
man)" as 350 pUsenl!~rs. Two encloSf'd cllblN ",,"11inC shuttle b\l5 for .Ih.e 2S.mlnUle ride lrom lAIng Island hulncrelled wlnler ridership by
and I deck ,,!rer tuvelen urho1!llered chairs __ the New Lon~~~~_f!"I!!:a1 to.~.!!lIlno. ..~\ tarJ.etlnt: skiers. naD says about 60 percent 01
and plenty of room tl" move llbout. (:..----r1I.' culno connection Is JU$I one of , his rompany's business comes Itom Lonl
()Iher pauenr;er amenities Include a Cross Sound's growth Irtnteglu. \ Isllnd. and about 20 per~nllrom
snick bar that Orr~ts evel')1hin~ from C'Oflee 10 MacMurray, Cros, Sound'a t:eneral \ Connecticut.
sandwiches. A liquor li<<n!le is rending. mlna!eJ says Its S-Iere rile between the The Bridg.-port and Port Jefferson
"rlSsen~er comfort Is critical," Connectlcul Stile Pier and Nt1Y London'. City com"an does promote "one-da getaways" 10
Wrono.....kJ says. "Arld the ride Is IntTflfibly Pier Is 10C111~ al what could develflp into a Port JerTemln, but lIall ,ays: II ~u been
comfortable and smonth." mljor Inlermodal hub in Ole Northeast, dlUlcult buUdInCII1rOn<<Conn<<tku1 mlrket.
The IZl-Iool Sel Jet, wNeh previously particululy In li~hl 01 Amtnk's plans for high- By contraSl, New' En<<:'and Tours. a
pto\"ided ,errice between San Diego and !peed train lemce be~n He"" York and separate ann of the company, hIS had sutt'eSs
Catalin.,bland, and before Ihat be~n i Boston. ) brlnJi:nc New Yorbn to Connecticut 'IIo'ith
JAM' -...~, --
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" A ca.ino in Bridgeport would
be very good for thi.company."
Frederick A. H_II
~!lf"IdPorlJellersonStf'lImbOIlrco
feny-bus paelUlgel to Connecticut
desllna'lons such IS Mystic and the Mlrk
T'wllin llouse In H:ntford.
nail "rs a low railroad brldp:e In
Bridt:eport limits truck traffic., but some
commuters do use the ferry,
'"There ill no question our utJUz.atlon is
higher during commuting hours," he Idds.
Sevt:ra.1 Ne.... York state Iez;slators, lor
InstallC't, use the ferry u a shortcut to Albany
because the;r _nl to IWYOid the 1brop Neck
bottleneck..
Althou<<h it b nO'\ll dOle 10 tmn and bus
connectlom, nail says the Brldgei:-POr1
Jefte1'5On ferry Is hampered both Itten
problems Ind limited IpIIct al the e it leases
from the Bridt:eport Port Authority. For thlllll
reason. he ,IYS. the company is conslderinll
move to Ihe opposlle .ide of Ihe harbor.
When lrid If. casino Is developed In
Bridgeport. Hall thinks, a harbor ahullle
semce could be developed 10 Unk the feny
terrnbW .nlh the tn.in station Ind other poInts
In the harbor.
"We Ire _tchln(t: .mlt b hll:rpenlnr; up
at Cton Sound, .mffe they've ha to add a
hlgh.speed boallo hAndle culno traffk:," he
laid. "".1 couJd.ee us ha"'lII a similar
ptuatlon U casino ,ambUn<< Is appfOl'ed In
Bridgeport. There'. no questIon. e:aslno in
&hIplnr," -........ - _.~"- ......
Commercial trafflc
. Tradar-nllers I" not IIn LIfI(:OfIIfIIl) sioN
on Crosl Sound Fllrry ServIceS' boAts.
One (;onnectlcut (;IOfT()8ny !hat hils bene,"-
ed from ferry .IIII~" KIlllIIoOg Mariol!ll
Sl4'PIYtnc:.InOdSllybn:lok.
Ouflng Its pellk .lJII'I'lfMr SlIlI'!IOn, Kellogg
rn8Y hIIYe as many .slour trucks a dtlri Ie,-
rled from one", PoInt, N.Y., to New london.
~ to Kevin Franee, _rehouse
opfIfllIlIons manqr lor Kellogg, III tnJcIolI Iol-
IoWhlgtrMJydlstrtbU1lonroulealhatlnclude
drivinQ to long IsIIIIIM.
Qoels on long IslANI, the trucks spllI up end
loIIow routes thIItlflke ~ b8dI: 10 Ihe terry
lermlnal. "Our trudl run. I'Ile designed to
drive down INI won klwenllM terry:
Frllnce sfl)'l.
By taking adYInlllge 01 thft terry service,
France uys, boItI Inds and driYela II'
8Clon ..,., Soood In llboVl 90 mlnutea_ By
contr1lst. It h a Ihrl!lllt-hoUI' drM! bACk bOld
S~ooIl.. MorfKlYef, he 18\'1, the drillers can
be on the roedlDng@r.
Inltddlllontolncrel'l!lngproduclMly.1h8
terry his ~~ KefIogg estllblish llt.ooq
IsI8ndITl8~tlnthe"""","~I'I"'11nce1l:
begIIn U!llng Cross Sound.
"At 1hI'I111mI!," were not doing II"" bus~
t1e!lS on long l!1lft1'd: France uyt.
TocIlIV,Il~17percenlolthec0rnp8ny"
blISloMS c:omM from long Iltand customllllrs.
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SOUTHHOLD CITIZENS FOR SAFE ROADS, INC.
PB
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S-rTtF'P
Mrs. Jean Cochran
Supervisor
Town of Southhold
Town Hall
53095 Main Road
Southhold, New York
11971
March 19, 1996
i'.'.~;-7'--::~~'~: ~-
1.1,'/ ~,; "
J LJ Ir- .,~
WU,! . 2 11996
, '
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Dear Madam Supervisor:
I write on behalf of Southhold Citizens For Safe
Roads, Inc. with respect to the current situation involving
the Town and the Cross Sound Ferry operation at Orient
Point. As you know, our members are Southhold residents,
including individuals who reside in the immediate vicinity
of the ferry terminal in Orient Point and along Route 25.
Since SEQRA encourages public participation early in any
process involving government or regulatory actions that may
impact the environment, we wish to make our concerns a
matter of record.
Our organization supports continued ferry service
at Orient Point. That service is clearly'important for
access to the New England market for our farmers and
nurserymen, and for tourism. We also support economic
growth where appropriate steps are taken to preserve and to
protect our community's natural environment and the health
and safety of its citizens. In that regard, we were
heartened by the efforts of the Town Board and the Planning
Board to have a comprehensive site plan review for the Cross
Sound operation at Orient Point. We are, however, very
concerned that since the last court hearing relating to that
matter, there has been no apparent progress. Our concern is
elevated in that there appears to be a pattern by the Town
of failing to follow up on preliminary steps to enforce
zoning or environmental laws. The growth of the Cross Sound
operation, which has led to the present level of operations,
appears to us to have occurred without appropriate review
and application of controlling environmental town and zoning
laws. As a result, we are very concerned that the ferry
facility at Orient Point be reviewed for compliance with
applicable environment and zoning laws. Our concern is
heightened by two facts:
First, reports in the media over the last year
indicate that Cross Sound's growth strategies are tied to
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SOUTHOlD TOWN
PlANNING BOARD
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the development of the New London terminal as an "internodal
hub of northeast traffic" and their joint marketing
agreements with, among others, the Foxwoods Casino. See,
~, Aug. 14, 1995, Hartford Courant (attached).
Second, if the last ten years is a guide, then any
assurances by Cross Sound that they do not intend to expand
appear to provide little, if any, real comfort. That
concern is heightened by the circumstances of last summer's
announcement of the high-speed passenger ferry by Cross
Sound, which came after they had received approval from the
Town for a 69-car parking lot supposedly for overflow and
employee use. Moreover, from the mid-1980s, growth appears
to have occurred despite occasional protestations to the
contrary. See,~, Cross Sound's 1984 EIS and
Mr. MacMahon's statements at the April 4, 1984 ZBA Special
Exception Hearing.
To ensure that any proposed actions regarding the
Cross Sound operation at Orient Point do not involve
significant negative impacts on Southhold's environment,
economy, public safety and quality of life, we urge the Town
to conduct a site review under SEQRA regarding Cross Sound's
current operations and its future plans for the Orient Point
facility. That review should be undertaken in a manner that
considers and protects the long term interest of Southhold.
We further urge our elected officials to take steps to
ensure that at least the following specific potential
impacts are reviewed and addressed in any such review.
1. ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACT:
A. NONPOINT SOURCE POLLUTION: Automotive traffic
along with runoff and evaporation at parking facilities all
appear to contribute to nonpoint source pollution. It has
been estimated that such indir9ct pollution accounts for up
to 80% of the degradation of U.S. waters. See,~,
National Geographic, February 1996. The ferry site already
includes parking for 69 cars authorized by the Town in 1995,
a staging area for 150 cars and five parking slots in front
of the terminal. Cross Sound's current proposals are for an
additonal 400+ car lot on residential land and 166 spaces on
the snack-bar land they appear to be using for parking. We
believe that the 400+ additional lot alone would be the
largest parking lot east of Riverhead. It certainly has the
potential to raise the volume of traffic to and from Orient
Point. More importantly, the proposed parking facility
would be situated directly adjacent to a significant body of
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water and associated tidal wetlands. The proposed site is
also very close to two public parks that include Long Beach
and Hallocks Bay, both critical environmental areas, and a
proposed acquaculture facility. Obviously, such a siting
poses a risk of water, groundwater and air pollution from
exhaust as well as from leakage and evaporation of oil,
fuel, and air-conditioning coolant. We urge the Town to
keep these issues in mind when examining the impact and
appropriateness of Cross Sound's proposed zoning variance.
Similarly, projected expansion of the parking lots at the
State Park should be taken into account when considering the
overall environmental impact of increased traffic and
parking facilities on the area around the Orient Point ferry
terminal.
B. COASTAL MANAGEMENT: To the limited extent that
they have been disclosed, Cross Sound's plans may directly
impact land containing and/or directly adjacent to tidal
wetlands. Dredging and disposition of dredge spoils appear
already to have altered wetlands and beach configuration,
including high water mark levels and other protected coastal
features. If that is the case, it is obviously an issue of
great concern to the Town, the Town Trustee's (who have
jurisdiction over the wetlands) and our membership, in
particular those who live in the vicinity of Orient Point.
In addition, increased frequency of ferry trips
through the Plum Gut may well raise questions concerning the
potential impact on fish and shellfish, and the safety of
lobstermen, baymen and fishermen. To our knowledge there
has been no assessment of the impact of the regular or the
passenger ferry on either issue.
C. LOCAL AND MIGRATORY WILDLIFE: The impact of
increased traffic and parking and the potential associated
air, water and noise pollution on wildlife is also of
concern. In addition to the potential water pollution and
its impact on the local food chain, we are particularly
concerned that the noise and lighting associated with
expanded operations by the ferry may well impact the species
that inhabit or visit the area around Orient Point. As the
Town is aware, the area immediately to the west of the ferry
terminal is sprinkled with osprey nesting sites and is
frequented by many species of migratory water foul.
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D. QUALITY OF LIFE:
1. Noise and Liqhtinq: Noise generated by ferry
operations, in particular the terminal public address system
and automobile traffic associated with those operations
along with the use of what appear to be unshielded high-
density lights, (which we believe may be contrary to Town
regulations), impacts the peaceful enjoyment of the homes of
the property-owners in the neighboring area. That is
particularly true in the summer when the last ferry unloads
at 11:15 p.m. and the lights remain on all night.
2. Traffic Volume: The historic communities of
Orient and East Marion and their 18th and 19th century homes
that line the main road are in danger of having their
aesthetic integrity destroyed by a traffic corridor to the
ferry. Cross Sound's argument that the new parking
facilities are necessary to deal with the increased parking
requirements generated by the "now-established" passenger
ferry is a compelling reason to address all issues from
long-range perspective. The alternative seems to be to
acquiesce in whatever unregulated growth in ferry service
may be implemented. We are concerned that a continuous
pattern of incremental growth at the ferry site could
ultimately result in arguments that growth in the volume of
ferry use and its associated traffic and parking needs are a
basis for demanding further variances for additional parking
facilities and ultimately the alteration .and widening of
Route 25 to accommodate increased traffic for the ferry's
expanded services.
2. PUBLIC SAFETY:
A. ROAD SAFETY: Serious consideration must also be
given to the public safety impact of the current ferry
operation and any future growth in traffic through
Southhold, in particular in traffic on Route 25 from
Greenport to the ferry terminal at Orient Point. Cars and
trucks speeding to meet ferry deadlines and to leave the
ferry could pose a significant threat to public safety
particularly if speed limits, double lines and no-passing
laws are ignored. The volume of traffic is of particular
concern where, as here, a bicycle route runs along the road.
In addition, the road between Greenport and Orient Point
currently has two firehouses, a primary school, two
churches, three farm stands, two entrances to public
beaches, and innumerable private driveways, which require
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backing-out to reach the road. As traffic increases, so
will the possibility of accidents. Moreover, if alcohol is
served on the boats, such problems may well be exacerbated.
The seasonal increase in car and bicycle traffic during the
summer months makes this issue a matter of some urgency.
B. SAFETY AT THE FERRY FACILITY: There are a number
of safety issues involving the ferry facility that should be
addressed. There is a fire safety issue given the lack of
any nearby water supply. In addition, the volume of traffic
generated by the large boats and the frequency of their
trips, together with traffic generated by the passenger
ferry, must be addressed. The potential problems are
heightened by the possibility of the discharge or loading of
passenger ferries coinciding with loading or discharging of
car ferries. Such a conjunction could result in almost 500
vehicles converging on the ferry site and our local roads at
anyone time. Anyone who is at all familiar with the ferry
terminal and its access to Route 25 must recognize how
untenable such a situation could become.
3. ECONOMIC IMPACT:
A. TOURISM: While the ferry introduces visitors to
the North Fork and probably brings some business to local
restaurants and vineyards, in our view there must be a
balance. A continuous volume of cars on a narrow road like
Route 25 would invariably alter the character of our
community and may ultimately deter tourism. As the quality
of the natural environment and consequently the quality of
life generally is impinged upon, the attraction for tourists
will be diminished. Only a balance of a reasonable amount
of traffic within some clearly defined limits will support a
diversified economy based on tourism, agriculture and a
marine economy.
4. ZONING AND THE MASTER PLAN:
It is our belief that the area around the Orient
ferry site is designated R-40 (Low-Density residential) or
R-80 (Agricultural-Conservation). We understand the purpose
of those designations is specifically to preserve open lands
and the "open rural environment so highly valued by year-
round residents and those persons who support the Town of
Southhold's recreation, resort and second home economy"
(See Zoning Code Amendments, May 1, 1987, p. 12).
Cross-Sound appears to operate under a special exception in
the limited Marine-II zone. The expansion of activity,
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which has been taking place and appears to be planned for
the future, seems to be in contradiction to the stated
intentions of Town zoning for this area. Certainly, before
the high speed passenger ferry and any more expansion is
approved by the Town, a SEQRA review and a complete review
of Cross Sound's long-term plans for the site should be made
public and considered by the Planning Board.
5. ALTERNATIVES:
In our view, the Town and the Town Trustees must
insure that our quality of life and our precious wildlife
and wetland resources, which are spectacular and pristine at
Orient Point, are properly protected both now and, more
importantly, for future generations. To that end, it seems
that the development of additional ferry sites to relieve
the burdens on Southhold Town is an obvious solution in the
interest of all concerned, including Cross Sound. We are
certainly prepared to assist the Town and Cross Sound in any
such effort. However, given the history, alternative
landing sites are unlikely to be seriously pursued unless a
clear line is drawn by the Town. That line must place
reasonable, lawful and definite limits on the operation and
any expansion of the Cross Sound service at Orient Point.
We believe it is within the Town's power,' through
enforcement of existing laws, to draw such a line. More
importantly, we believe that it is the Town's responsibility
to do so now.
Sincerely,
Southhold Citizens for Safe
Roads, Inc.
By: T~ JL.___
Thor Hanson
Chairman
Copies to: Southhold Town Board
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SOUTHOLD CITIZENS FOR SAFE ROADS, INC. (SCSR)
P.O. BOX 797
GREENPORT, NY 11944
25 January 96
Richard MacMurray
Vice President & General Manager
Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
2 Ferry StreeVPO Box 33
New London, CT 06320
~@~ow~-(l
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rn
FEB 2 1996
SOUlHOL'" TP' i.
PW!NINl "" '.'-_ _
Dear Mr. MacMurray,
I enjoyed our meeting and appreciated the opportunity to discuss some of Cross
Sound Ferry's plans and the concerns of South old Citizens for Safe Roads (SCSR).
I was especially pleased to hear you say that Cross Sound is vigorously working to
develop a ferry terminal and route from New London to Montauk and that you are
also very interested in a terminal and route to Shoreham. As I said that day, SCSR
is also advocating those sites and is circulating a petition with that aim. If we
can help you in that endeavor, we would be pleased to do so. We believe that
alternative sites are imperative and would welcome them as soon as possible.
Route 25 and the East End of the North Fork of Long Island cannot remain the only
ferry traffic corridor between Orient Point and Port Jefferson.
We of SCSR are also encouraged that you volunteered to look into the lighting
concerns of residents at the Point and check on the feasibility of installing a
traffic light to stagger the traffic from the boats and the parking lot. Such steps
are welcome, but -- as I said -- are not our major concerns. We would also
appreciate detailed current information on car, truck and passenger traffic, the
sort you were quoting from the sheet you had; if I remember correctly, you offered
10 provide that in some form.
As I said at our meeting, one of our great worries is the prospect of increased
ferry operations -- round the clock and perhaps even half-hourly runs. Although I
appreciated your candor in stating that Cross Sound could not put in writing any
limitations on schedules because of difficulty in projecting some years in advance,
I can only reiterate that such uncertainty is one of SCSR's greatest concerns.
Another concern is that of future and bigger Sea Jets and I was pleased by your
statement that Cross Sound has no plans for any. I have, however, since our
meeting, seen a New London Day article of 12/25/95 which reports that the
Mashantucket Pequots are planning to build British-designed trimarans, "triple-
SOUTH OLD TOWN: A DESTINATION, NOT A CORRIDOR
A GATEWAY, NOT A THRUWAY
.
.
SOUTHOLD CITIZENS FOR SAFE ROADS, INC. (SCSR)
P.O. BOX 797
GREENPORT, NY 11944
hulled boats capable of speeds greater than 50 knots and about twice the size of
Sea Jet I, a catamaran operated by Cross Sound Ferry between New London and Long
Island." I'm a bit surprised that you didn't mention that news and would appreciate
your comments on it.
If Cross Sound management is truly interested in being a "Good Neighbor" to the
North Fork, as you expressed to me and as your many ads in the Suffolk papers
proclaim, it would seem to us that you should be eager to present your full site
plan for a SEQRA review. You should be just as concerned as we to know and share
the impact of your ever increasing operations, which now include that of SeaJet I.
Certainly you should want to ensure that your business is not at the expense of
those you term "good neighbors" in eastern Long Island. I would appreciate your
reaction or that of Mr. Wronowski -- to whom I am sending a copy of this letter
to this observation.
Thank you for sending me your card and for journeying to the North Fork for our
meeting. I await your proposed telephone call in March, comments on the proposed
Pequot trimaran building program, current information on ferry traffic and also a
written response to our thoughts on a full site plan and SEQRA review. Because
Southold Town is also most interested in the Site Plan review process, I am also
sending copies of this letter to the Southold Town Supervisor and Planning Board
Chairman.
Sincerely,
Ir/
Thor Hanson
Vice Admiral, USN (Ret.)
Chairman, SCSR
cc: John P.Wronowski, President Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
Jean Cochran, South old Town Supervisor
vRichard Ward, South old Town Planning Board Chairman
SOUTHOLD TOWN: A DESTINATION, NOT A CORRIDOR
A GATEWAY, NOT A THRUWAY
.
.
~
1'6
~;::
January 31, 1996
Richard Ward
Southold Planning Board
Southold, New York 11971
As a property owner and tax payer, I strongly urge you
to OPPOSE any expansion of parking facilities at the
Cross Sound Ferry.
Every year the traffic to and from the ferry is getting
worse -- to the extent that is endangering LIFE -- as
well as the environment.
Please do not allow any expansion. In fact, traffic
should be discouraged and parked cars along the road
should be towed away.
Please help us keep Orient from becoming a vast parking
lot for gamblers, Conn. commuters, truckers, etc.
Thank you.
rA~~
Respec fully, r
[Al<;;'
Louis Emmanuele
Box 1058
Orient, N.Y. 11957
cc Jean Cochran
Southold Supervisor
ill ~ @ IT. n 11
G
FEB I f!g) ~
SOUTHOLD TOWN
PLANNING BOARD
.
FOHN NO. J
.
.su.eF
{>I!>
~
TOWN OF SOUTIlOl.lJ
nUlI.DING DEPARTtIENT
SOUTIIOI.D, N. 1.
rn
DEC I ~
~i
~(Cl~OW~
SOUTHOlO TOWN
PLANNING SOARO
nATE: . ~!'Y!'~~!'!".??! ..I???........
William W. Esseks (agent) Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc. &
.. 'IOS 'i;s'r" 'M;i'n' .S.r"r"".';t.................. Adam C. Wronowski
NOTICE OF DISAPPROVAl.
To
........................................
R~verhead, New York
1190]
...........................................
PLEASE
TAKE NOnCE that your appl ication dated . !l?Y!'~~!'!". ?:. . .. .. .. 19??.. ..
establish parkiog for ferry termioal jn residential zone (Lot A)
increase density of existing parking \Lot B}-in conjunction with
. . 'pa'r'kiiig' 'or; l.i;t .JlJlJtFI3'-1)'-T5..T.................................. at
41875 & 41190 Route 25 Main Road Orient, N.Y
.............................................................
for permit to
I.acation of Property
House No.
County Tax Map No. 1000 - Section .... .1.5.....
Street Hamlet
"LOCK ..?........ LOT .~!~.~..I?:.I.~ 15.1
Subdivision
...............................
Filed ~Iap No. .........Lot No. .......
i.s returned herewith and disapproved on the (ollowing grounds .. PP!l~!'. {\FF-}.!=~!? ~~..... ~. ~ ~ ~
Section 100-250 any change in use or intensity of use will require site plan approval
~..... ~ ~.. ~.~. ~......~ ~ ~ ~ ~... ~ ~ ~. ~ ~..~ ~ ~ ~~ ~ .... ~. ~~.. ~.. ..... ~. ~. ~ ~~. ~..... ~. ~ ~. ~. ~~ ~... ~~..
by the Planning Board. Under Section IOO-19JA reasonable and appropriate off street
.~ ~. ~ ~ ~.. ..~. ~.. ~.. ~ ~... ~. ~.... ~ ~... ~..~ ~.~. ~ ~ ~. ~ ~ ~ ~.. ~. ~. ~ ~~...~. ~... ~.. ~ ~. ~.. ~ ~~.... ~ ~ ~.~.
parking requirements for uses which do not fall within listed categories shall be
". '.i~~~..:n;i~~.i 'b; '~h~ 'pi;~~i'~~ 'Bn';r'd' "';p'o'n' "c"o'n's'i"d'e'r'a'r"i'o'u' ""f ...i'l' 'f"'~~;'~'!;:' s~~~i;,;,. '100:'2548' (4)
. ~ .~f '~t;~ .i~~~ .C~d~ ~~~~o.~~;s. .t.h~e. .Pia.n~n'i~n~g. .B~o~a~r~d. ~t~o' ~.a"r~y~ ~'"r. ~~~i~~~ p~~k:i~g" ~~q;".i~~~~~t~. ~~. ~..
.. ~.. ~ .... ~ ..... - ..... ~....~ ~ _...........~.. ..~.......... ...... .... -.. ..... ....................
part of site plan review process. ..
... -. ....~.................... ~...... ........... ~.~............... ..... -. ............ ~....'.'
. . . . ~ . . - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
Regarding Tax Map Parcel SCTH 61000-15-9-15.] an approval by Planning Board of
.... -..... ~ ...................................... ~ ~ - .................. ..-.. ....~.... ~.........
site plan is required. This Department is not in a position to accept applicants
.. ~............ .,.. ~ ~. ~ ~ ~..... ~.. ~.. ~......... ~.................................................
statement as evidence of pre-existing parking use.
....................................... ~..... ~.. ~ ~ ~ ~......................... ~.........-.. ~..
Under Article III Section 100-J IA the proposed parking spaces are not a permitted
.. ~. -. ~ ~....... ~.. ~... ~.... ~.... ~. ~.. ~......... ~... ~.....~............. -..................... ~...
use in the R-80 district. Under Article XIX Section 100-]918 proposed parking spaces
. ~.............................................. ~.~ ~..~... ................ _.................;.........
for ferry terminal are not located on the same lot as the use to which they are
.. . . .. . . . .. .. . .. .. .. .. .. . . . .. . . .. . . . .. . .. . .. . .. . . . .. .. . . .. . .. . . .. . . . .. . . . ~ . .. . . .. . .. .. . . .. . .. . . .. .. . . . . .. . .. . .. . . . . .. .. . . . . . . .. ..
accessory, nor within 200 ft. walking distance of such lot. - Action required by
Zoning Board of Appeals.
..................................................................................................
Action also required by Board of Town Trustees & N.Y. State Dept. of Environmental
. . .. CoiJ;ei-v;'ilo;". .. . . . . . .. . . .. . .. . .. .. .. . . . . . . . . .. . . .. .. . .. .. .. .. .. . . . .. . .. . . . .. .. .. .. . . .. .. . ... ..~.. ... . ....... - . . . . ..
........................ ~ ~ ~~
. ..... ..". . ~ . (".. .. ;;1.=+........."
RV 1/110 R1I. ,1 i nr;. ~l1ector
. Gulf Insurance ~mpany .
SECOND REQUEST
CONTRACTOR
Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
STATUS INQUIRY
9/19/95
JOB DESCRIPTION
CONSTRUCTING AND MAINTAINING DRIVE ENTRANCES, SEWER LINES, WATER
MAINS, GAS MAINS, UTILITY LINES AND POLES, STREET INTERSECTIONS, CURB
SIDEWALK, DRAINAGE AND EXCAVATING AND MISSTRUCTURES, ETe.
BOND HOLDER
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SOUTHOLD
NY
11971 0000
BOND #
EFFECTIVE DATE
BOND AMOUNT
CONTRACT AMOUNT
CONTRACT #
GE 5696402
5/30/95
$ 2,500.00
$ 2,500.00
PO BOX 1179
We need a status report on the progress of the job described. Your
completion and prompt return of this brief inquiry would be appreciated.
IF THE CONTRACT HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED:
PERCENTAGE OF COMPLETION
%
TOTAL AMOUNT PAJD TO DATE
$
It is understood that this information is
furnished as a matter of courtesy and
will be held confidential by Surety. It
is also understood that the providing
party does not guaranty the accuracy
of this information whether such
information is furnished by the owner
or any agent of the owner.
CURRENT CONTRACT AMOUNT
(INCLUDING CHANGE ORDERS)
$
IF THE CONTRACT HAS BEEN COMPLETED:
DATE OF COMPLETION
I
I
DATE OF FlNALPAYMENT
I
I
TOTAL CONTRACT AMOUNT
(INCLUDING CHANGE ORDERS)
$
SECOND RESPONSE
COMMENTS
THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD IS UNFAMILIAR WITH THIS BOND. PLEASE
SEND FURTHER INFORMATION. THE HIGHWAY THAT RUNS BESIDE THE CROSS SOUND
FERRY PROPERTY IS NEW YORK STATE ROUTE 25 - IS NOT PROPERTY OF THE TOWN.
Please sign, date and return this inquiry in
the enclosed envelope to:
Midwest Indemnity Corporation'
5550 West Touhy Avenue - Suite 400
Skokie, llJinois 60077-3200
NAME
Judith Terry
(PLEASE PRINT)
4' fl~ ~
~/~
Southard Town Clerk
September 29. 1995
SIGNATURE
TITLE
DATE
PHONE (708) 982-9800
FAX (708) 982-9816
PHONE:
FAX#
( 516)765-1800
( 516)765-1823
4885 09
034943 002
" Gulf Insurance .mpany
.
CONTRACTOR
Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
STATUS INQUIRY
8/03/95
JOB DESCRIPTION
CONSTRUCTING AND MAINTAINING DRIVE ENTRANCES, SEWER LINES, WATER
MAINS, GAS MAINS, UTILITY LINES AND POLES, STREET INTERSECTIONS, CURB
SIDEWALK, DRAINAGE AND EXCAVATING AND MISSTRUCTURES, ETC.
BOND HOLDER
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
SOUTHOLD
NY
11971 0000
BOND #
EFFECTIVE DATE
BOND AMOUNT
CONTRACT AMOUNT
CONTRACT #
GE 5696402
5/30/95
$ 2,500.00
$ 2,500.00
PO BOX 1179
We need a status report on the progress ofthejob described. Your
completion and prompt return of this brief inquiry would be appreciated.
IF THE CONTRACT HAS NOT BEEN COMPLETED:
PERCENTAGE OF COMPLETION
%
TOTAL AMOUNT PAID TO DATE
$
DATE OF COMPLETION
/
/
It is understood that this infonnation is
furnished as a matter of courtesy and
will be held confidential by Surety. It
is also understood that the providing
party does not guaranty the accuracy
of this information whether such
information is furnished by the owner
or any agent of the owner.
CURRENT CONTRACT AMOUNT
IINCLUDING CHANGE ORDERS)
$
IF THE CONTRACT HAS.BEEN COMPLETED:
DATE OF FINAL PAYMENT
/
/
TOTAL CONTRACT AMOUNT
(INCLUDING CHANGE ORDERS)
$
COMMENTS
THE TOWN OF SOUTHOLD IS UNFAMILIAR WITH THIS BOND. PLEASE
SEND FURTHER INFORMATION. THE HIGHWAY THAT RUNS BESIDE THE CROSS
SOUND FERRY PROPERTY IS NEW YORK STATE ROUTE 25.
Please sign, date and return this inquiry in
the enclosed envelope to:
Midwest Indemnity Corporation
5550 West Touhy Avenue - Suite 400
Skokie, Illinois 60077-3200
NAME
Judith Terry
(PLEASE PRINT)
/~~
S:uthold To n Clerk
September 12, 1995
SIGNATURE
TITLE
DATE
PHONE (708) 982-9800
FAX (708) 982-9816
PHONE:
FAX#
(516 )
(516 )
765-1800
765-1823
4885 09
034943 002
Ms. Patricia L. Acampora
Assemblywoman 1st District
Suffolk County, N. Y.
Robert J. Hicks
1275 Lands End Road
Orient, N. Y. 11957
/)//$
!/ ~ ~
-r,d f.-;-,
p~
S.,-;t1-r'
Typed transcri.f attached letter received 9/'.
Dear Pat,
I enjoyed meeting with you on Friday September 8, 1995 and I thought
I should write to you expressing my pleasure. Talking to an elected
official that is sensitive and willing to take action concerning issues that
are extremely important to all of your constituents on the North Fork is
very gratifying.
This letter does not necessarily represent the views of our committee, but
does pinpoint some of my thoughts concerning parking in and around the
Ferry Terminal.
As I mentioned the "site plan" is the primary document and should
embody the direction and control of the current and future business of the
Cross Sound Ferry. The Ferry Company will try to avoid issuing or'
agreeing to such a document hoping to continue business as usual. They
will probably propose off-site parking which will only be effective if
parking in and around the Ferry Terminal is controlled.
The D.O. T. has not been present when parking is out of control and
prevents any access to Orient Point other than Ferry business (the pictures
shown to you illustrate the ? problem).
Such indiscriminate parking prevents hikers, roller bladers, etc. from
taking in the beauty of Orient Point and I might add tourists/locals wishing
to do the same.
I do not suggest eliminating parking on Route #25, but do suggest
parking limitations such as 3 hours on shoulders. The Ferry uses Route #25
for long term parking which consists of 11 to 12 hour parking (gambling
customers) and in some cases 2 or more days. As taxpayers we should not
expect that public roads become private parking for businesses, such as the
Cross Sound Ferry, for extended periods of time.
The bike trail is posted from Porky's to Orient Point and invites
people to make use of this route. Why not put a 3 hour limit on shoulder
parking along this route? if not, then a 3 hour limit from Plum Island
Lane, East to the Ferry. This will eliminate long term parking and return
the roads to proper and shared usage by all.
I would hope that such a plan could be implemented quickly without
waiting for a site plan. Even with a site plan there is no guarantee of
controlled parking at Orient Point.
Thanks again for your time and effort in resolving this blight on our
beautiful area.
cc:
Regards,
Bob /ss)
~ 0 \VI ~
rn
Tom Wickham
Ruth Oliva
~
SEP 2 5 1995
SOUTHOlD TOWN
PlANNING BOARD
NICKE GORNEY
ART UFE
156 SllrIolg Avwue
G...1pOIt, NY 11844 (518) 477-8448
.
~
;;6
(2K
lis
September 19, 1995
Dear Richard Ward, Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Kenneth Edwards,
George Ritchie Latham, Jr., William Cremers,
As a citizen and resident of the Village of Greennport in
Southold Town, I want you to know of my concern for the
increasing threat to safety on the roads of the North Fork of
Long Island. The rapid deterioration in our quality of life is a
direct result of the significant increase in traffic on State
Rte. 25 between Orient Point and Greenport Village and westward
on County Rte. 48, caused by the rapid growth of the Cross Sound
Ferry traffic related to the Foxwood Casino business.
I am strongly in favor of the actions being recommended by
Southold Town, Suffolk County and New York State officials by
SOUTHOLD CITIZENS FOR SAFE ROADS (SCSR), the newly-formed group
advocating sharing of this increasing traffic with additional
ferry terminals at Shoreham and Montauk, consistent and moderate
speed limits and effective enforcement of traffic and parking
regulations on our roads. It is vital that Cross-Sound submit a
Comprehensive site-plan review as well as a SEQRA review before
they are allowed to continue the Sea Jet passenger ferry or
increase trips on the Cross-Sound car ferries.
We should not be the victim of businesses that primarily benefit
Connecticut given the fact that NYS and L.I. revenues are being
lost to gambling concerns in that state, at the expense of our
safety and quality of life. We need your help to keep Southold
Town a destination, not a traffic corridor--a gateway, not a
thruway.
Please let me know how you intend to support this aim.
Sincerely,
#m&~
rn
SEP25m5
ill
0WIl
PlANNING BOARD
.
.
~
pe,
s.~
LAURY L. DOWD
Town Attorney
THOMAS H. WICKHAM
Supervlsor
Town Hall. 53095 Maln Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold. New York 11971
Telephone (516) 765-1889
Fax (516) 765-1823
OFFICE OF THE TOWN ATTORNEY
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
September 21, 1995
Greenport Board of Trustees
Greenport Village Hall
236 Third Street
Greenport, NY 11944
Dear Trustees:
The Southold Town Board has asked me to communicate with you. Local
newspapers have carried reports suggesting that the Cross Sound Ferry
has been negotiating with the Greenport Village for use of Village land
for Cross Sound Ferry parking. Some of the sites mentioned in the papers
are within the jurisdictional area of the Town. Please be advised that the
use of this land for the proposed activity is proprietary in nature, which
means that the use would be subject to Town zoning laws, site plan review
and other appropriate regulations.
This letter is offered simply as guidance in the event you decide to
proceed in the manner suggested in the newspapers. Feel free to call me
or our Planning Department if you desire further information.
Very truly yours,
~~
Town 'l.tttSrney
cc: Town Board
~n\'l1rnfi;l
SEP Z I 19S'.-)
SOUTHOLlJ V'
PLANNING 80'1,0
.
.
MELANIE MllZNER
155 STERLING AVENUE
GREENPORT, NY 11944
September 19, 1995
Dear Richard Ward, Bennett Orlowski, Jr., Kenneth Edwards,
George Ritchie Latham, Jr., William Cremers,
As a citizen and resident of the Village of Greennport in
Southold Town, I want you to know of my concern for the
increasing threat to safety on the roads of the North Fork of
Long Island. The rapid deterioration in our quality of life is a
direct result of the significant increase in traffic on State
Rte. 25 between Orient Point and Greenport Village and westward
on County Rte. 48, caused by the rapid growth of the Cross Sound
Ferry traffic related to the Foxwood Casino business.
I am strongly in favor of the actions being recommended by
Southold Town, Suffolk County and New York State officials by
SOUTHOLD CITIZENS FOR SAFE ROADS CSCSRl, the newly-formed group
advocating sharing of this increasing traffic with additional
ferry terminals at Shoreham and Montauk, consistent and moderate
speed limits and effective enforcement of traffic and parking
regulations on our roads. It is vital that Cross-Sound submit a
Comprehensive site-plan review as well as a SEQRA review before
they are allowed to continue the Sea Jet passenger ferry or
increase trips on the Cross-Sound car ferries.
We should not be the victim of businesses that primarily benefit
Connecticut given the fact that NVS and L.I. revenues are being
lost to gambling concerns in that state, at the expense of our
safety and quality of life. We need your help to keep Southold
Town a destination, not a traffic corridor--a gateway, not a
thruway.
Please let me know how you intend to support this aim.
Sincerely,
~.
rn
SEP 2 0 \995
SOUTHOLD TOWN
PlANNING BOARD
P8
g,-,-ttfp
VI rn
~
September Zl. 1995 .1heSulfolk Jimes.. .9.
Cross Sound Chief Missed the Point
By Thor Hanson
Richard MacMurray's "Equal Time" Equal ,.lme
piece (The Suffolk Times, Sept. 14) for
Cross Sound Ferry is distinguished more
by omission of fact than commission of
error, although there is enough of both to
warrant a response. ..
The Southold Citizens for Safe Roads
(SCSR) August traffic count - yes, it
was SCSR's, not the Orient Associa-
tion's -- never assumed. claimed or re-
ported that all the traffic on the road be-
tween Narrow River Road and Orient
Point was ferry traffic; how could we
know? Our intention was to compare the
traffic volume with that recorded by the
state Department of Transportation in
1989. We chose a summer weekday to
emulate their study and found that the
traffic on that stretch of road during
those hours had increased from about
2,600 to over 4,000 vehicles during
those six years. That's alarming, what-
eVer the contributing factors! The fact
that State Park traffic shares this two-
lane road with ferry traffic obviously
only makes it more necessary to find a
way to control the volume.
Mr. Mickus of Cross Sound was quot-
ed recently in Newsday as stating that
the casino ridership, which had been
about 5,000 per month in March, had
increased to about 3,000 per week with
the advent of the high-speed boat and
that more growth was anticipated. That
increase clearly played a role in the
SCSR-reported increase in road traffic.
SCSR does not advocate closing the
Orient terminal, but does work to protect
the community against these continuing
increases in the sizes of boats, numhers
of trips and hours of operation. At pre-
sent no such protection exists. We also
insist on additional terminals to share the
burden of car and freight ferries and a
change of terminal for the high-speed
passenger boat.
The revenue from casino traffic is vir-
takes this issue far beyond traffic and the
local economy to the serious question of
the loss of significant New York State
revenues.
Mr. MacMurray's notion that over
350,000 New Englanders come to Long
Island annually in his boats might heller
he stated as through Long Island - cer-
tainly through the North Fork. His fur-
therextrapolation of that into "hundreds
of millions of dollars in direct and indi-
rect benefits to the local economy pro-
vided by Cross Sound Ferry's cus-
tomers" is thus more than a trille sus-
tually all Ilowing out from Long Island
to Connecticut; dollars spent at farm-
stands are a drop in the bucket compared
to the millions draining out of the state.
The purpose of the high-speed ferry is to
take Long Islanders and other New
Yorkers to Foxwoods and bring them
back - spent and spent-out. ThaI'S what
it does. The projected expansion and
proliferation of Connecticut casinos
Continued from page 9
Let's rememher that Cross Sound re-
ceived a free-and-c1ear grant of
$400,000 from New York State taxpay-
ers to build its new facility in 1984, and
that it also received a zoning variance on
the basis of a site plan it has never fol-
lowed and of promises it has not kepI.
Mr. MacMurray says that Cross Sound
"has repeatedly displayed itself to be a
lood neighbor to the lown and its resi-
dents" and "has always been and will
cOIItinue to be willing to work with the
Orient Association, Southold Citizens
for Safe Roads and Ihe Town of
Southold ... through mutual coopera-
tion." The best evidence of such will-
ingness would be for Cross Sound to
comply willingly with the town's de-
~and for a comprehensive site plan re-
vIew and SEQRA (State Environmental
Quality Review Act) review, just as any
other business operating in Southold
Town must do.
SCSR believes that Cross Sound, the
town, the county and Ihe state can and
must work together to keep Southold
Town a destiDMion, 110I . corridor - a
gateway; not a t!lIvwtl)l.
peel. Which is not 10 say that Cross
Sound does not provide a service to
Long Islanders. Of course it does, and
SCSR wants that to continue. A reasOll-
able amount offerry traffic will continue
to contribute whatever revenue it does to
local businesses. Cross Sound is also to
be commended for its assistance in rais-
ing money for local causes, but that in
no way addresses Ihe potential damage
of unlimited expansion by an uncon-
trolled monopoly.
See Equal Time, page 11
.
'\
//
.
Southolders, l!Ially for Safe Roads'::
Grouj/de"ffl.ands ., . .
more ferry routes ~;
By Tim KellY'"
Becalmed for most of the summer,
the legal dispute between Southold
Town and eros. Sound Fmy_
headed fOl" lIIlOlbtt rough passage ~,
week. with both sides scheduled 10 apo,
pear befae a State Supreme Court jus-
tice)'tSlenlay(W_y). .
The auorneys for both sides were
scheduled for a cIosed-door session in .
the judge.'s chamben to seE the rules of
engagemenL . ._.
On anodlcr frmt. f<try foes outside
of town government are raking aim at
the company in launching a petition
drive seeking signatures from 2.000
Southold residenu in suppon of their
call fIX the deveJopmeru of alternative _
landing nIcS at Shorcham or Montauk.
Witb a crowd of about 150 people
on hand. and both IOwn supervisor
candidates pledging to suppon their
dons. lbc Southold Cilizeos fOl" Safe
ROIId.o group lcicked off rJw drive .orb
a Saturday aftemooo rally. in Green. ;
port only a few steps removed from_:
rbc __ f<try IIlIffic on Route2S.
Fearful of the impacu of an ever-in- ...
aeasing line of cars and trucb com- : J
See Ro"'.. page 35
. -.- -. -- -- -- ----. ----- -. -.------------- - _._----~--_._---_.
-'0. ) ~. '--_> "~~ ..~~;..,:~: '-~: PhotolbyT1lrl1(aIy
, ROAD GANG-Thor Hansen (inset. left) addressing the ase~blage
:. during the Soolhold Citizens to< Sate Roads rally on SalUrday~" ,,, '.
-. - - ~- -- ~ _ _. h___ .
"
"
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.
.
,
J
~
1
1
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.
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~-...--...~". .....,. 'i3~. 11ft: ':'UIIUlIli IlmeS.;;I5
Rallying for Safe Roads...
Continued fran page 3 The group also hope3 to fmd a DC,!, of Route 15, and the inst.a1Iatim of a dale in the upcomiDg superviaor"s dcc-
\. home for the Sea Jet I. perhaps tn. trafnc light to stagger the release of vc- don. said the town must cease looting
ing to and fmn the ferry tc:nninal, the downtown Grcenpon or Nonhville hides disembarking and heading west at the IJ3ftic IS simply an East Marion
town auempted IlDSOCtCSSfuUy in July abur: the Sound in Rivc:rtad. through the town. and Orient coocc:m,. but instead IS .
10 convince the court to bloclc tbCiDtro- lbe botrom line problem is the b'af. problem affecting communities from
ducti... oC ems. Sound's high-speed . fie is acceIe:>ting and islOmg ",,,,,,,,1- WIu,.. Should W. Parle? MauitucI:.....
(my sc:rvicc. But in ruling against the erate." said Freddie Wachsbergcr. a . Ironically.lbough. ~ people attcnc!- 'We don't think town-widc, aod we
lDWn. the coun..-cl ibo Cmy open., group mom"'" and C...... pes;deol of mg the nllly __ rcquUed 10 perle lbCr have", begin.... sbc smd.
tor 10 satisfy the town's coocerns over\. lhc Orient Associatioo. 'lbe arrival of cars aloog either side of Rourc 2S in a Mr1. Cochran also d..isap'ccd witb
porlcmgandlllh<<plamUngissuco. \ theW._hasopeocdpooplc'soyes.. !asb~ viI!W'lly ida.'licaI "? ~ illegal the sopcrvis<l<'s suggostioa dw Ibo....
Allhough Cross Sound has balked at \\ The Iq)C8ICd its CXlIlICOtioo that ~ ~bCI ~y II contmwog OQ . sullll of this year"1 eIcctiona mu&d alIcr
tberequest.thelOwnisattcmptingto 'tdoc:sgroup cJosctheOricntr. dailybasiJmOricnL lhetown'lrespoI1SClotbclrafficCOll_
compel the company 10 submit to full ~:~ other fZr! ~I tbc group. SwIboId Sa. cems. She IOId tho crouP that me ~
site plan approval for its Orient prop.-. . sboald share ~ fCC;:W~ pcrva.u Tcm Vdbam. would DOlen. portS their seveo-part piority list 00100
cay. That ..,.. woold ",tail the 0010- ~"-A-bOimd~pan 0 . ow donelbo _lha< the row. pIKe, pelt:CO~.andrhaltheGOP_the
pletiou. of detailed environmental and ~ ... monw:rium 011 aU moo cba1pa.. move search for aJ1cmaIivc Iaoding siIes.
Iraffio: srodies. Cross Sound has said Ibo Leadmg , cbeer--dw-,,"YU _would' ~~prohibi1 Cross Sound from lB n:questiog dw <esidems wrilo: "'
townneVC'Zbcf(Rqucstioneditspart.~ have been beard locally Only I fe"""-lddingpartiqlo~1aod their eledcd reprcseotatives. SCSR
ing pw... and do...o. have grounds 10 moolbs ago, ML. Wachs""'ger ex- mOrieot_.......eorresideotial_ c:hainnanlbodl,OSOlloCOrieoturged
do . - c1aimod '"What 10 we want? Sluehaml All popc:rty ownen haYe . right to the of the Pnses. pleWa DOl
l ::;h::;~;: 2. -, .-." ,"-'_,:'~~~' Wbeodowcwamit1Nowl- . mate sucb . mqucsr. the sop:nisor ~y..'and ",~OC:~fDf~
n ',ww~'If_,"_'" The group "",viously asked Co.- uni- .w.addiug dwd>eTown _~ ficc:uridor.. ~.
The row. and ems. Sound bec:am... farm speed Iim.. duough East Marioa 1ooI:"-.ery, ""YcnCully".... appli.'"Tho....they __.Iboadmi_
legal opponents shca1Iy after the oom-' and Orient, lb. SIric. eoCortement oC cation _ by Cross Sound. nil said, "the .... they'll lhinI: about
pany added the Sea Jet [boat 10 lis fleet porlcmg _ oear the....... cod Jeao Cochno, the RqJubIX:ao c:aodi- it.. ,.
in. June," providing passengu-only ~ '''' -;'L_
crossings in just over . baIf-bour. Tar. \ __ _
geting casino-bound travelers. the new
boat wenllnto service ooIy Mds after .
the town gavc~ apProval roc the con~
structioo Of a new parting lot in Orieiu.
Town otrocial.s said they __ misled by
Cross Sound. which made DO meotioo
of the new boat in its application 10 the
Planning Board. Believing the 00IISlrUC,'
1'~AgateWaY. not 3"',"";"
..; '~~~~~6'~~1
,- tioo oflbo gra..tlo< 10 _only Ceay-I
--..... employees and some ..- 1raf6c. i-
t Ibo PIanniog _deIamiocdlbarlbo' I
! 'MXk.woaIdDOt have. significam im~ :.
. pact'oia'lbe::mViroomeot. I declsioa.
~ boerd membcri oo.,.say.... in error. .
TOWa=ofrx:ials"bave spent'much of
the summer mooitoring tnfI"iC movo-
mal,[ and parting in Orient in IDIicipa-
tionof.areturalOc::ourL
Frank Yakabosti. tho anomer CD-
gaged by the town to ~presenl the
Plannmg Board m the Cmy casc, and
WIlliam Essets. who represenl.! Cross
Sound. did not return caUs carlia' this I
wed<.
Followmg up... their Aug. g appear_
ance belote the Town Board. SCSR
t' looked to rim up lis supporters with .
"safe roads rally" at the borne or Frank
McIntosh on Route 1S. immediately
east of Brec1nock HalL The group is
seeking signauues for its petition urging
"all legislaton and officials to move I
rapidly to develop additional vetlicle
ferry terminals, panicu.larly at Shore.
...............u................
,-
CRC)SS SOlJND FERRY
Linking [,( Jl1g Island and l\L'\\ England
SePt._~~:~~~, '. ltieSut.foik nn..
015
~ . ^'.
A CODa 'N~igizbdrl;AlffJ7fj~:Ld~t
' ::, '. "',,- . 'I~f '.
.!",:" ,;1:'.,\";
:';,-1
'i,:
,; :~. ..~ ,~."
is an active member of the Long Island; Eas.tEnd, and
, s, Over the years, Cross Sound has. Hlade"lUmerous
'nckind contributions to hundreds o/,iirganizations
Island and Southold Town.
* The
campa
yearly
Fundra
Cruise
raised
$70,0
members of the
Activtties
express our
. Cross Sound
efforts on our
example of
on the .
edfot
Ju,~ ~~e of the organizations
. ,""t~J.qv.. So.ric\ Pony
" . hili mntributed to:
\:
.Cross Sound Ferry has "
always shown great
support towards the Orie
Fire Department with .
donations from their annu..:
Fireworks Cruise and with
passage on the ferry when
needed for our men. Our
relationship with Cross
Sound has always been
good and we look fOIWard
to working with them again
next year..
-Lloyd Kalin
Chief. O,lent Ate
Department
,,: ,
st. '-Idofe's..... aub,
Fleet Reservt~..ilch 71, iuv.rh.ed
WllW-long'~PubIIc~
Okeanos Oc:een AIIHMCh FoundBtion
Vielnem Veo..erlll'lll Agent Orangll VIctims
lMng Water Full Gospll! Church, fUverh.d
little Flower ChRdrlln's ServIces of New York
Northport-ElIlt Northport Union Frllll School DilIl:rlct
United Cerllbrel Pelsy AitsocIetlon 01 Grellter Suffolk
"
*
, "':', "; "r"'" I. ~";
"WJG"lJ9'P,,"S 12: 3ZCRO"S scum r;::R8-Y
P.1-
. .
CROSS SOUND FERRY SERVICES, INC.
;5t&f!JF
FAX COVER SHEET
,
-jU4/ud -<'{'- f. -:-
..,u;,e .3 yo 'P"'f
tf rh li~
Date: August 8, 1995
Attenion: Mr. Robert Kassner
Company: Town of Southold
Fax Number: (516) 765-3136
From: Richard MacMurray
Message: Could you please fax to me the available times you have towards
the ~nd of next week or the early part of the fullowing week to meet with me and our
planning consultants. Thank you.
00
~@rnowrn
AUG - 9 1995
ill
SOUTHOlD TOWN
PlANNING BOARD
Number of Pages Including Cover Sheet: 1
Please call (203) 443-7394 if all pages are not received.
Corporate Offic;e; . 2 ferry Slreet. PO Box 33 . New London. CT Ori320. (203) 443-7394. FX (203) 44(}..3492
-
.
.
MEMORANDUM TO FILE
August 9, 1995
On this date Dick Ward called me to let me know that Richard McMurray
called him to discuss the ferry parking problem.
Mr. McMurray said part of the problem was caused by boy scouts being
dropped off by their mothers on the weekends.
Mr. Ward asked if McMurray was going to file a Site Plan for the
parking at the snack bar. Mr. McMurray did not answer this Question.
Mr. McMurray told Mr. Ward that he would get in touch with the P. B.
staff to set up a meeting.
aA/~
~
A29
Gamblers' Casino Train
Riding a Flush of Success'
AT A LITTLE PAST 9 A.M., the
Long Island Rail Road's gam-
blpr'g special pulled out oCRon-
konkoma heading east, carrying a mod.
est contingent of travelers who had
invested $25 to travel by trains and
buses and one sleek fast ferry to get to a
Connecticut casino.
Among the travelers was a contin~
gent of friends who work together at a
junior high school in Valley Stream but
on this day were on one of their annual
summer excursions.
"I think they should call it the Orient
Express," said Rose Marie Paternostro,
a retired social studies teacher, express-
ing the exuberance of her friends.
Unfortunately, this two-car, diesel.
powered train was neither an express,
nor was it headed to Istanbul. It was
destined for Greenport, where the first
in a series of transfers would bring the
group to Orient, and, eventually, to the
slot machines of the Foxwoods Resort
Cllsino on the Mashantucket Pequot In.
dian reservation in the rolling hills of
southeastern Connecticut.
The route to Greenport, along the
center of Long Island up to the North
Fork, dates to the mid~19th Century
and the very beginningoftrain travel on
Long Island. Now seldom utilized, with
a limited schedule of trains, the LIRR
hopes the route has discovered a new
source of revenue hy tapping into the
growing numbers of people who have
discovered Foxwooo!il, which now claims
to draw 40,000 visitors daily.
The Foxwoods allure has become so
powerful that the Cross Sound ferry
service connecting Long bland's North
Fork at Orient to New London has
_ spent $4 million on its first passenger-
only ferry, a sleek 6-year-old vessel ca-
pable of carrying 350 people at nearly
30 knots and cutting the old 90-minute
trip by almost a hOllr.
Until the end of August, the railroad,
the ferry service and the casino are
mountingajointpromotion to lure Long
Islanders from their automobiles.
While it appears that the railroad has
nothing to lose since it didn't have to
adjust its schedule, it will, for the time
being, be confronted by passengers who
will demand that it to keep to its schoo-
casino; which provides $25 worth offood
and gambling vouchers.
"We look at this as every phase of the
journey being an adventure," said
Cythia Retarides, one of the quintet of
Valley Stream gamblers. There was a
certain amount of ribbing about their
field trip to a casino, but one suggested
they could convert their experiences
into lessons on probability, while an-
other suggested a lesson on Native
American culture. .
And there were suggestions 8S well"~
Instead of a normal diesel coach, t.he~
railroad would be smart to attach a pat.:.1c:
lor car to cater to the casino-bound'.._
travelers. Others suggested .somethiril:=-
more modest, such as cleaner w~tIowi
to view the buccolic aspect of the route; ".-,,:\1' ..~~
which passes farms and vineyards.~.' "'.... .
According to a railroad spokesmanb=
many walk-ons, the ferry service was nothing will be decided on permanent
getting complaints from drivers who basis until the summer promotion' II;:'
couldn't find any seats. completed. Right now, the ferry service-
So far, the railroad estimates that it subsidizes the school bus thot links.'.. _
has attracted about 75 customers. But rail passengers in Greenpl'rt to the Ii _
ry six miles away in Orient. "'~--
each week since the service began on For the record, it was simpler abou~
July 9, lar-r numbers show up daily. 151 h th 1.0 J '__~I;
..- years ago, w en e nl SIAlIQ._
Take Ben Krovets, of Wantagh, a reo Rail Road reached GreenporL,M: tIuf. _
tired 74-year-old steel 88les- time, ferry steamers left Greenport..~lnd.
mail, who caught the excur. took passengers to Stonington, Conn.'".
sion at Hicksvilte and wasn't No school buses. But then they weren't
sure whether the day's ~igh crossing Long Island Sound to pm,
point was riding the ferry' or but rather to catch a train to 8oIt,on;
praising the food served at That service lasted only 8ix ~
the casino. (With a $10 food WhenarailroutewasfinallyCOllltrUl!&'~
voucher as part of the pro- ed across the rivers and inletll of IOIU~
motion, he only had to add ern Connecticut, the new con~
515 cents to pay the sales tax.' from New York to Boston w&8nlt~
But for Krovets and oth- sarily that much faster- itjult,~
en, . it was a long, arduous you didn't have to get on 1lh1..
Now the boat connection II _
day of fUil, A bartender from sleek. The only problem, l.'~>. . _~~
Manhattan, who was travel- , I 1. I .:..l1.!:.t.iil.r-
ing with his wife and mother-in-law, es- schedule doesn t war.... fyou WWI_"-:.I" ...._;::~_
gato Boston, you 'could catch'4~
timated that it took him -10 hours of trak train in New London (WlthtJI
travel to get in five hours of casino walking distance of the ,Cerril.i ,.
time. problem is that the train lee_ .
So it would seem that the normal mar. 20 minutes beCore the LI -
ket would be Long Islanders - arid for hection arrives. ;., :":~~:;;'j t
the $25 ticket, they get a bargain. Nor-, Which ill too bad,and'
mally the cost could range from $30.50 tell if both Amtrak and th4f
to $39 for the combined rail and ferry. juggle their schedules to make~'
service. And that wouldn't necessarily" ,ton connection &om the North F
include the incentive thrown in by the J: teality and not an hletorical odell
.,;;;..i~~~~:l"",'''.
Newlldll.l' I Dlck Krau!
Boarding the gamble,'s special at. Lake Ronkonkoma, 'rom left: Cynthia
Hetarldes, Freeport; Joan Faust, Valley stream; Shelby Kleeger, Rock"lle Centre;
Hose Marie Paternostro, "arden City Park, and Mary Lou Hart, East Rockawa,.
ule so they don't miss subsequent con-
nections that would delay their time in
the gaming rooms. Already this past
week, a violent thunderstorm knocked
out signals on the railroad's main line,
which in turn delayed the train carry-
ing Foxwood-bound travelers, totally
disrupting the connections. While some
riders, according to a rail-
road spokesman, simply
asked for a refund, others
had to be bused to thE.>ir ferry
connection at Orient, arriv.
ing at least two hours late to
the casino.
For the ret.'Ord, the railroad
for once doesn't have to guess
whether there are custOmers
for this service. They know
there are since the ferry in
the past year has gradually
built up a market to Fox-
woods and, in turn, created parking
problems for itself on the Long Island
side. Back in March, according to Stan-
ley W. Mickus, marketing director for
the Cross Sound Ferry Services, service
.
.
~--'--.J ~~,
Cross Sowul's Speed Ferry
Continues as Town Watches
Acampora Asks About L.I. Gambling
By Sandy Ruroede
ORIENT - With Cross Sound
Ferry's new high speed ferry com-
pleting the first full week of its Ori-
ent to Connecticut connection, the
impact that the new ferry will have
on the community still lingers.
Although the new ferry has been
scheduled to make six round trips
daily, not all of the bugs have been
worked out of its system preventing
it from completing its full schedule.
Several Sunday evening crossings
and all Monday trips were canceled
due to "mechanical" problems. Re-
ports of the ferry breaking down
mid-Sound late last week also
emerged throughout the weekend.
General Manager and Vice Presi-
dent of Cross Sound Ferry Richard
MacMurray says the new ferry has
brought no increase of passengers to
the area. In fact, he said, the shuttle
bus service from the Long Island
Rail Road to the I I am ferry has
been utilized by only a handful of
passengers so far.
But MacMurray added that it was
misleading to represent the company
as making six round trips daily since
no casino shuttle meets the last three
boats in New London. "We haven't
carried any more people to the ca-
sino then we did last year at this
time," on the conventional ferry
lines.
cause of inadequate parking.
An informal on-site parking in-
spection on Sunday afternoon
showed cars parked along both sides
of Route 25 up to federally cwned
property, on either side of Lands End
Road, parking on private property, 1
double parked cars by the Snack Bar
and cars parked where minimum
room was left for passage. The in-
spection was done while one of the
conventional ferries was loading ve-
I
,
~
However, he did note that the
company is looking at three or four
off-site parking locations west of
Greenport to "ameliorate traffic con-
ditions. "
'"
~
'\.
1"
f\l
t
')
MacMurray said that his claim on
the parking issue is backed up by a
recent New York State Supreme
Court ruling that found no reason for
the company to be brought back for
site plan approval at this time be-
hicles
Monday afternoon, Republican
Assemblywoman Patricia Acampora
of Mattituck told the Traveler-
Watchman that "No Parking" signs
Continued on Page 9
1
When asked by the Traveler-
Watchman what measures the com-
pany planned on taking to alleviate
the parking problem at its Orient ter-
minal, MacMurray said there was no
real parking problem at the site since
.the new ferry would be accomml)c'
dating overftow passengers from the
conventional ferries.
\'
In
Ilt
Speed Ferry
Continued from Page 1
will be placed along Route 25.
Acampora said she had received
many complaints from residents
about parking conditions in the area
and felt the state highway was not
an "appropriate" place to park.
Earlier in the day MacMurray said
ferry customers should be allowed
to park along the highways the same
way customers do for farmstands
and churches.
"I felt it was a safety hazard. We
don't want anyone getting hurt," said
Acampora.
The court decision handed
down by Supreme Court Justice
Patrick Henry earlier last week ad-
monished both the town and the ferry
company. The company's "conten-
tion that the new boat will carry only
passengers, transferred from the
other boats, is somewhat disingenu-
0us. That result would not justifY
the business invested in a new veS-
sel in the amount of$4 million, how-
ever, the party [Southold Town]
~ a Preliminary Injunction, or
a Temporary Restraining Order,
/ bears substantial burden to show a
clear right to that relief and a likeli-
hood of ultimate success."
Bocause the town could not sub-
stantiate its claims of traffic and
parking safety, the court threw out
the tQwn' s motion for a temporary
restraining order, but put the motion
for an injunction on hold so the
Town can re-calendar the matter if
public safety is endangered. Henry
also stipulated that Cross Sound
Ferry may be required to submit a
revised site plan application in the
future, but the Town had not proven
the new parking lot would be insuf-
ficient for the business generated by
the new boat.
Henry advised the two parties to
work together in the future to resolve
any problems that may arise. At its
Tuesday work session, the town
board agreed to hire special counsel
to help Town Attorney Laury Dowd
on the case. The special counsel has
yet to be appointed.
Greenport Mayor David Kapell
had mixed feelings on the issue.
Noting it would be excellent for the
business community, he said, "The
prospect of additional people com-
ing through Greenport is appealing,"
but he also acknowledged the poten-
tial traffic problem that could be
caused along Route 25 In East
Marion and Orient.
Republican State Senator
Kenneth LaValle of Port Jefferson
would alSo like to see the ferry com-
pany and the Town work together in
future matters. LaValle's executive
assistant, Margaret Rothwell said
the ferry company explained to
La Valle's office they were only re-
sponding to the complaints of their
customers by adding the passenger
only ferry service.
Apparently, the company will
have to "Look at a central parking
facility to alleviate some of the traf-
fie," said Rothwell. about lack of jobs in the area. Al-
One issue floating around the state though Acampora would not say if
legislature that may help eaSe traffic she was for or against gambling on
flow is legalizing gambling in New Long Island she did say a casino on
York, but currently Long Island has Long Island would generate jobs and
been left out of the amendment would decrease the traffic flow to
which would legalize gambling in Orient.
parts of upstate New York. After the legislature passed the
LaValle has an aversion to gam- amendment to allow gambling in
bling, said Rothwell, and gambling parts of upstate New York, many
on Long Island has never been made Long Islanders were upset, she said.
an issue in the legislature. Rothwell No one from Long Island is on the
said legislators from the Catskills Legislative Racing and Waging
were the ones pushing for the legis- committee and other Long Island
lation due to the dire economic con- assembly representatives have never
ditions of the area. . ..gone to their constituenls tq ask if
Acampora SeeS the matter differ-. they want gambling on the Island.
ently and is looking for as much ie~ .
search on the issue as possible. She
said she has sent out postcard ques-
tionnaires and will be holding town
meetings on the issue. "I'm going
to find out what the people want and
Pat's going to go to bat for them."
At a recent Mattituck Chamber of
Commerce meeting, Acampora said
chamber members were concerned
Get The Word Out
For Just $5
THAT'S 10 WORDS IN
The Traveler-Watchman
CLASSIFIEDS
Call 765-3425
Cross Sound Ferry's Orient parking facilities were filled to the limit last weekend, forcing vehicles to
find alternate means of parking. Traveler-Watchman/Soody Ruroede
.
7k.~ r~J
~,.;J-7 (>7
" Town Calls
For Ferry
Site Plan
By Tim Kelly
The sea battle between Southold
Town and Cross Sound Ferry continued
this week, with the Planning Board de-
manding that the company file a new
parking plan for its Orient terminal, and
the Town Board agreeing to seek out-
side. legal counsel in case the ferry
company does not comply.
The week after a State Supreme Court
judge refused the town's request for an
injunction to prevent the ferry from
launching its new high-speed service to
Connecticut, but did order Cross Sound
to address the town's traffic and parking
concerns, the two sides appeared no
closer to resolving the dispute.
Following up on last Friday's 90-
minute meeting between Cross Sound
vice president Richard MacMurray and
town planning staff members, the Plan-
ning Board sent a fax to the company
Tuesday morning requesting a response
by the close of business that day to the
town's demands for an amended site
plan showing the maximum number of
parking spaces, traffic estimates, and
SPecific plans for off-site parking.
Cross Sound didn't meet that dead.
line, leading the Town Board to agree to
seek outside legal help, should the town
renew its court case against the ferry
operator.
"We'll have to give them a little bit of
time to respond," said Deputy Super-
visor Ruth Oliva. "We'll see what hap-
pens next week."
Town officials claim they were mis-
led by Cross Sound, which made no
mention of its plans to add a new high
speed vessel to its fleet when it applied
for approval earlier this year for a new
parking lot adjacent to the terminal
building. The Planning Board said it
would not have waived the need for de-
tailed environment and traffic studies
had it known of Cross Sound's plans for
the 350-passenger Sea Jet I, which can
make the trip to New London, close to
the increasingly popular Foxwoods
casino, in only 35 minutes. (For a
review vi CI'OIiII SouIld Ferry's newest
boat, see story paae ZO.)
~
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VP: W. N..d Mon 7'i1M
Mr. MacMurray ssid the town is be-
ing unrealistic in its request, and sent its
phone line correspoodence to him Tues-
day only hours before its response dead-
line.
"I don't think it's far to ask someone
to respond within a few hours," he said.
"We have to review their requests, and
it's going to take some time."
In response, the Planning Board ar-
gues that during Friday's informal scs-
See .... Plan, page 20
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Richard G. Ward, Chairman
George Ritchie Latham, Jr.
Bennett Orlowski, Jr.
Mark S. McDonald
Kenneth L. Edwards
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Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P. O. Box 1179
Southold, New York 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
July 27. 1995
Richard MacMurray. Vice President
Cross Sound Ferry Services. Inc.
P.O. Box 33
New London. Connecticut 06320-0033
RE: Site Plan for Cross Sound Ferry Services. Inc.
Orient. NY
SCTM# 1000-15-9-10.1. 11.1.& 15.1
Dear Mr. MacMurray:
With reference to your telephone call yesterday. July 26th. with Robert
Kassner. Site Plan Reviewer. my understanding is that you are discussing
with your company the Planning Board's requests as set forth by Planning
staff at our July 21st meeting with you. And. further. that in response
to Mr. Kassner's query as to whether a site plan application would be
forthcoming. you indicated that you would be getting back to the Planning
Board office with an answer. Please indicate the time-frame within which
this will occur.
Meanwhile. the Planning Board looks forward to hearing presentations from
your company's traffic consultants. As you indicated last Friday. the
data that has been collected to date is informative. A presentation time
can be arranged for any of the Board's weekly work sessions.
Finally. if there are any outstanding questions about how to proceed.
please feel free to call Robert Kassner for assistance.
Sit),cerely.
~~{~ (J7~<?~
Valerie Scopaz /
Town Planner
cc: Richard G. Ward. Chairman
.
.
MEMORANDUM TO FILE
SUBJECT: Cross Sound Ferry
DATE:
July 26. 1995
At 10:30 am on Wednesday July 26. 1995. Mr. Richard McMurray V. P.
of Cross Sound Ferry called me and said he had received a facsimile on
July 25. 1995. from the Planning Board asking for his response. by 4
pm. to the questions asked of him at a meeting with Planning Board
staff on on Friday July 21. 1995. The planning Board requested the
following of Mr. McMurray at the Friday meeting:
An amended site plan for the entire site. showing additional
parking at the snack bar location.
Parking calculations showing the maximum potential parking spaces
for the entire site. and plans for off-site parking.
A traffic analysis addressing congestion and access issues
based on existing and projected ferry levels.
Plans for any off-site parking.
Mr. McMurray indicated that the time frame for his response was
unrealistic. I indicated to Mr. McMurray that he said at the Friday
meeting he would get back to us by Tuesday July 25. 1995. Mr.
McMurray indicated he was discussing the matter at the present time
would get back to the Planning Board.
and
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PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
RiCh:lrd G. Ward. Chairman
George Ritchie Lalham. Jr.
Bennetl Orlowski, Jr.
Mork S. McDonald
Kenneth L. Edwards
Telephone (516) 765-1938
PLANNING nOARD OFFICE
TOWN or SOUTHOLD
Town 11,11. 53095 Main Road
P.O. Iln, 1179
Soulhold. New York 11971
Fox 15161 765- 3136
FAX COVER SHEET
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TRAHSI'lI S5 IOH REPORT
**************"(*****
.
: T 014H OF 50UTHOLD ( JUL ,:5 ' 95 10: 19 )
*****:Jt,,**************************:-t<*********:i<:****r***********************:********;r********
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* DATE START REI'IOTE TERI'1WAL 110DE TIME RESULTS TOTAL DEPT. *
'" TIi'Il:: 1DE~ITIFICATIOII PAGES CODE *
* *
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'" JUL 25 10: 18 CROSS SOUI'iD FERRY G35T 01 '05" 01< 02 *
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.
i1LW.lUC)' r 11V. DUI.. wnat not a very gooa ratIo.
Bi:~py iliffdto Creating
Seamless Transportation I
By Jack Sirica
$TAFF WRITER
lntermodalism may not exactly be a
household word. but Charles Hoppe.
former president of the Long Island
Rail Road. says he knows exactly what
it is: More parking spaces at LIRR sta-
tions.
"The main intennodal problem we
. have is there' 5 never enough parking
space." Hoppe. now a transportation
consultant. said during a break in" a
conference on intermodalism yester-
day at Dowling College.
"An awful lot of people get into
theil' cars and keep right on going,"
Hoppe said of would-be train com.
muters.
That coping mechanism, while un-
derstandable. would be anathema to
some 50 transportation experts from
around the world who gathered yes-
terday at Dowling's N ational Aviation
& Transportation center to tout the
value of intermodalism - the "seam~
less" melding of airline, bus, rail and
road systems to move people- and
goods without delay.
Ai; motorists in the nation's cities
and suburbs increasingly contend
with traffic gridlock. and businesses
struggle to cut shipping costs caused
by congestion. the concept of intermo-
dalism has gained currency. even
though it has failed to gain a foothold
in the national vocabulary.
To. Gordon Danby and James
Powell. senior scientists at Brookha-
ven National Laboratory who ad-
dressed the Dowling conference yes-
terday. intermodalism exemplified is
a speedy magnetically-levitated train
system that they have designed for
Brevard Countv. Fla.
The train w~uld run at 220 miles
hour over the 20 miles between
OJ
"
'I.T
proposed. terminal at Interstate 95.
Port Canaveral has a booming cruise
line business. according to Danby and
Powell. but it has no room for custom-
er parking. With the new Maglev sys-
tem, travelers could park after pulling
off 1-95. then hop the train for a 6-
minute trip to the port. A future ex-
tension could carry passengers an-
other 35 miles to the Orlando airport.
The only problem is. no one has yet
put up the money for the project.
Danby and Powell have faced the
funding problem since they first de-
veloped magnetic levitation i~ the
1960s, and they noted with some iro-
ny yesterday that Japan was building
between Tokyo and Osaka a system
based. on their design.
"I know as sure as I'm standing
here that we could have built this
damned thing 25 years ago," Danby
told the audience. "But we do not
have a mechanism to move this sort of
thing."
There were other interesting ideas.
some related to intermodality and
some not.
Dr. Clifford Bragdon, vice president
for advanced technologies at the avi-
ation center. announced that an "81'0-
macist" would be demonstrating a
new citrus.mint scent designed to
wake up drowsy drivers. Bragdon said
he expected the "aroma system" to be
available in new automobiles within
about three Years.
Bragdon ~lso showed slides of a
"continuous flow intersection" now
in operation at the aviation and trans-
portation center's entrance on Wil-
liam Floyd Parkway. The Interchange
is similar to a standard road crossing.
but is designed to maximize traffic
flow and to minimize engine emis-
sions. It uses a series of on-ramps
a ong with tradition ignals.
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PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
Richard G. Ward, Chairman
George Ritchie Latham, Jr.
Bennett Orlowski, Jr.
Marlk S. McDonald
Kenneth L. Edwards
Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P. O. Box 1179
Southold, New Yorlk 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765-1938
July 25, 1995
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Richard MacMurray, Vice President
Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
P.O. Box 33
New London, Connecticut 06320-0033
Re: Site Plan for Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
SCTM# 1000-15-9-10.1, ILl & 15.1
Dear Mr. MacMurray:
This letter will summarize our meeting of July 21, 1995 with Robert Kassner, Site
Plan Reviewer, and myself.
The Planning Board requested:
1. An amended site plan for the entire site, showing additional parking at the snack
bar location.
2. Parking calculations showing the maximum potential parking spaces for the
entire site, and your plans for off-site parking.
3. A traffic analysis addressing congestion and access issues based on existing
and projected ferry service levels.
You indicated you would discuss these requests with your people and get back to
us no later than the close of business (4 p.m.) on Tuesday, July 25, 1995.
We await your reply.
Sincerely,
tI~/l<<~ cf;~2r
Valerie Scopaz, Town Planner
for Richard G. Ward, Chairman
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.40.. The SuItQlk Times.. J\I\> 2(i)',1995
,....v ......V1'I'C'-'~!'-'...., ....,."" ..._
Ferry Making Waves on 2 Forks
eSouthold loses;
judge OKs hi-speed
Cross Sound boat
.
He wasn't at the helm, but a State
Supreme Court justice helped pilot the
Sea Jet I through Plum Gut Wednesday
morning.
After a hearing in his \slip courtroom
Tuesday, Judge Patrick Henry refused
to issue the injunction sought by
Southold Town to prevent Cross Sound
Ferry's high-speed boat from making its
maiden voyage. The town sought the
temporary restraining order to prompt
the ferry ftrm to return to the Planning
Board and address growing parking and
tntfftc concerns.
While refusing to stop the new boat,
the judge did ftre a shot across the com-
pany's bow in ordering it to reopen the
planning process. Judge Henry also told
the town that he could renew its applica-
tion should tntffic and parking problems
persist.
With no legal shoa1s before it, but less
than 10 people aboard, the Sea Jet I
sped out of the Thames River in New
London at 7:45 a.m. Wednesday for the
35-minute trip to Orient. The 350-pas-
senger boat carried 270 people when it
made its first run from Orient to New
London at 8:45 a.m.
"Everything went ftne," Cross Sound
vice president Richard MacMurray said
of the high-speed ferry's frrst scheduled
voyages.
Mr. MacMurray is scheduled to meet
today (Thursday) with town planning
staff to discuss plans for off-site park-
ing. He declined to identify the site,
other than to describe it as "west of
Greenport. "
See Southold, page 40
Calmer seas ahead
for Cross Sound
line to Montauk?
By Tim Kelly
It takes a good set of binoculars, but
on a clear day it's possible to see the
lighthouse at Montauk from the shore at
Orient Point. The East Hampton Town
hamlet known in the tourism trade as
"The End" isn't visible from New Lon-
don, but the Cross Sound Ferry may yet
have it in its sights.
As some North Fork residents brace
for a feared rising tide of tntffic in the
wash of Cross Sound's high speed ferry
service launched Wednesday, talk of a
potential new South Fork ferry landing,
perhaps at Fon Pond Bay in Montauk,
continues to swirl around East Hampton
like the winds of a stobburn nor'easter.
Southold offtcials, and residents of
the Orient and East Marion communi-
ties who have long pushed for the
opening of another ferry terminal to
take passengers and vehicular traffic
away from Southold, hope the rumors to
be more than just idle talk.
Cross Sound Ferry has long sought 10
operate ferry service on both of the East
End's forks, but plans to run that service
between Connecticut and pan of a state
park on the northern side of Napeague
east of Amagansell ran aground a few
years ago largely through the unyielding
opposition of East Hampton Town Su-
pervisor Tony Bullock.
But Mr. Bullock, the Democratic
candidate in this year's county execu-
ti ve race, is not speaking out against a
Montauk ferry landing, however.
''I'm willing to look at proposals that
See South, page 40
South For' Ferry...
Continued from pagE' 1
meet zoning," the SUpeWlSor told The
Suffolk Times.
The question of a Montauk ferry ter-
minal also has fueled a dispute within
the East Hampton Republican organiza-
tion, I'~ng to a September pany pri-
mary dection. The property considered
the most likely place for a ferry landing
belongs to lOwn GOP chairman Chip
Durye;a's family se;afood business. Mr.
Duryea's critics say his support of
Montauk resident Maureen Murphy's
challenge lO the pany' s chosen town
counclil candidares is an attempt to gain
a favorable vote on that Town Board for
that ferry site.
S01tU~ Interest Has Been Shown
Mr. Duryea dispures Illat claim, and
says no agreement has been struck with
Cross Sound. But as a long-hauler of
seafood from Maine and Canada, "we
talk to these people regularly about
transportation issues: he said. "At this
point Iin time, the picture is a little too
vague to say anything with any degree
of certainty, but I don't think it's any
secret that they have shown a very high
intere"t level in establishing a foothold
on the south side."
Fort. Pond Bay was the site of a car
ferry secvice between East Hampton and
Connecticut in the 19208 and '30., Mr.
Duryea said. During the '50s and '60s,
nuclear submarines docked at the
Navy's sonar resting center in that shel-
tered, deep-water harbor, he said.
"TItis is a safe haven during periods
of extreme weather on the ocean side."
he add.ed. "I've seen little freighters and
ocean- going tugs in there."
Cross Sound vice president and gen-
eral manager Richard Mac Murray said
the feny "continues to look for a posi-
tion on the South Fork of Long Island.
Our position has always been that any-
time you can bring people closer to their
destination, you're reducing traffic."
The company is "not down to anyone
site at this stage," he said, and declined
to comment on the possibility of coming
to a decision in the near future.
Mr. Bullock added, "All we hear in
East Hampton about Cross Sound Ferry
and Mr. Duryea is talk. We've seen no
real proposal of any kind. All we have is
a lot of rumors flying around."
But that is enough to push the area's
various factions onto either side of the
debate, bowevel' theoretical.
Even though no plan has been filed in
Town Hall, environmental and neigh-
borhood groups are speaking out against
the very idea, saying they don't want it
to advance beyond the discussion stage.
They share East Marion and Orient res-
idents' fears of ever-increasing traffic
and the long-term impacts on their
communities.
They are as skeptical as their North
Fork counterpans about claims that a
new ferry service will decrease the
number of cars on area roads. Cross
Sound said that the new boat capable of
traversing the Sound in 35 minutes sim-
ply will shift walk-on riders heading for
the Foxwoods Casino from the often
overcrowded conventional boats to the
new passengel's-only ferry. Supporters
of a South Fork terminal suggest that it
will help ease long-standing traffic con-
gestion patterns by moving cars west-
2d, rather than e.ilstward, on Friday
.ts and offer an ,,,"tern escape route
on Sundays.
The Shdter Island Factor
The ferry h.., long argued that a sub..
stantial number of :.l' customers head
for the South Fork afler disembarking in
Orient. Shelter Island officials see a.
South Fork terminall and a way to cut
down on the num"',r of cars using the
island as a "land bndge" between the
two forks.
But the Bridgehampton-based Group
for the South Fork is: adamant in saying
there is no room 011' the roads in East
Hampton and Southmnpton town for the
additional vehicles", South Fork ferry
could generate.
"I don't see a ferry in Montauk cut..
ting that ,10wn: organization presidenl
Bob DeLuca said of the traffic. "I can
see (potential passen!lel's) saying, 'Let's
drive thmugh the worst traffic on Long
Island,' and then going all the way to
Montauk to then go all the way up to
New London. II does,,'t make an awful
lot of sense."
As is Ihe case on the North Fork, a
rise in fe:rry service can counl on sup-
port from within the East Hampton
Town busine,,'i:s community.
Two y'~s ago, a Montauk Chamber
of Commerce poll of its members found
support for the Nape<lgue ferry terminal,
but the group has not taken a stand on a.
Montauk site.
"We encourage bringing tourists to
town,>> said Jennie Balcuns, chamber
president, "but we don't want to lose
our small town flair. TItat's one of the
concerns I've heard.'"
A survey conducled by the Institute:
for Regional Research at Southampton
College in the fall of 1993 found sup--
port for a South Fork ferry in all five:
East End towns. Th.: poll of 500 area
residents, 100 from each town, found 38
percent approved with 14 percenl
against it. The reSI said they didn'l
know enough abouti!: to take a stand, or
expressed no opinion.
At thai time, a majority of respon-
dents in both East Hampton and
Southampton towns backed the pro-
posed new ferry.
The institute conducted a private
study on the ferry issue about nine
months ago, said Bull Wilson of Sag
Harbor, the group's research director,
but those results remain confidential.
'The issue of a feny is like any oth..-
relativel~' high inte.nsive use on the
South FOlCk, such as a garbage disposal
plant," said Assemblyman Fred Thiele
(R-Sag Harbor). "Pe.Jple don't want it
in their neighborh<>oo, but wouldn't
mind having that use around someplace.
The problem with th~.se issues is trying
to find a site for thelm. I think that's
equally true with the terry."
.
.
- .. r
Cross ~'ouna Perry Begins lvew r erry klerVlce
By Sandy Ruroede
ORIENT - Southold Town's at-
tempts to temporarily halt Cross
Sound Ferry Inc. from operating its
new high speed ferry to Connecticut
have failed.
In a decision handed down by
New York State Supreme Court
Judge Patrick Henry, the town's re-
quest for a temporary restraining or-
der against the ferry company was
denied.
Southold Supervisor Thomas
Wickham said that Henry did recog-
nize the potential impact that the new
ferry could have on the Orient and
East Marion areas, but Henry chose
to call upon Cross Sound Ferry to
"level with the town" stating its in-
tentions in regard to traffic and park-
ing jpstead of issuing any restrain-
ing" order. .
Realizing the town's responsibil-
ity to its citizens, Wickham said
Henry built in a mechanism allow-
ing the town to file a motion ifpark-
ing does become a significant prob-
lem.
Wickham said Henry agreed with
the town in principle, but was not
prepared to prevent Cross Sound
Ferry from offering its new service.
If the town can prove the new ferry
has a significant impact on the area,
the door is open for further legal pro-
ceedings.
"I see this as the court validating
our position," said Wickham.
During a special Southold Plan-
ning Board meeting on Friday,
Southold planners unanimously
voted to bring Cross Sound Ferry
Inc., back before the planning board
for site plan approval. A review of
the complete intentions of Cross
Sound would clear the way for the
town to take legal action against the
ferry company.
The step was a prerequisite for
Town Attorney Laury Dowd in her
attempts to bring a temporary re-
straining order which would have
barred the company from expanding
its business in any way until there is
a full site plan review for the busi-
nesses operations. At its last mect-
ing, the Town Board directed Dowd
to proceed with legal action against
the ferry company.
"Our historic two-lane road has
been turned into a traffic highwav to
Connecticut." said Freddv
Wachfberger Secretary ofthe Orie,;t
Association and membcr of the
newly fi)rmcd Ferry Committee.
Wachfberger said the OA be-
lieved the parking situation should
have be(:n enough for the town to get
the restraining order because illegal
parking has been a problem for some
time. Last weekend, she said, 400
cars were parked illegally on private
roads, privatc lawns and on the state
highway. Some of the cars wcre left
for a period of four days.
Citing that the ferry traffic is no
longer Just an Orient and East
Marion issue, Wachfberger said the
town shouldn't be "helpless" in re-
gards to limiting fcrry traffic. "Right
now there's no way to stop thcm
[Cross Sound Ferry] from doing
what they want," Said Wachfberger.
Wachfberger told the Travcler-
Watchman that people come to the
North Fork to get away from the city
atmosphere. Passengers using the
new ferry service will not be stop-
ping to shop in any of the hamlet
busil)ess districts, she said. Those
who disembark in Orient, she said,
have no direct bus or rail service,
hotels or fancy restaurants to go to.
Continued on Page 26
ii
!
A16
.
D
nEWS,*Y
It
..JU'-,/ /f,. /f"1'S-
The Quick . and the Dread
Speedy ferry can begin service despite town's protest
By David Lefer
STAFF WRITER
It's full speed ahead for the high-speed ferry, at
least for now.
After a tense day in court for the Cross Sound Ferry
Service yesterday, state Supreme Court Justice Pat-
rick Henry denied the Town of Southold's request for
a temporary restraining order to stop the new $4-
million ferry from beginning service today.
Henry adjourned the case in Central Islip until the
town's main concern - where to park all the cars
headed for the passenger ferry - is resolved.
"Reason compels acceptance of the town's conten-
tion," he said, referring to Southold's claim that the
ferry would increase traffic.
The judge called Cross Sound's argument that the
new ferry wouldn't draw large crowds to the area
"disingenuous." But he added that Southold had not
proved why the ferry's first run should be canceled.
Henry urged both sides to come up with a parking
arrangement quickly or face the restraining order.
Southold claims that the heavily advertised Sea Jet
L which will cut the crossing time from Orient Point
to New London, Conn., from Il/:.! hours to 35 minutes,
will overload existing parking near the ferry.
"It can be anticipated that new passengers will be
forced to park illegally, dangerously close to the wa-
ter, trespass on adjacent areas, and in a manner
which will pose potential threats to the health, safety
and welfare of all the passengers," wrote Southold's
Town Attorney Laury Dowd in her complaint.
During cross-examination, Dowd questioned the
hearing's only witness, Richard MacMurray, vice.
president and general manager of Cross Sound Ferry
of New London, about his claim that despite increas-
ing from 18 to 24 trips a day, the ferry would draw no
new crowds.
"Do you expect the new 35.minute ferry to draw in
terms of increased passengers?" she asked.
"It's possible," MacMurray replied.
"Are you advertising the new 35.minute trip as a
plus?" asked Dowd.
"We are advertising, yes," said MacMurray.
Since the new ferry can carry 350 people, Dowd
estimates that with six round-trip crossings a day, as
many as 1,050 parking spaces would be needed if ev.
ery car brings two people. Right now, the town says,
the ferry is approved for only 74 parking spaces.
"The service will start," said William Esseks, who
argued for Cross Sound yesterday. "I don't think it
will be a problem .. We have to comply with the
spirit and the letter of the law, and if there's a prob.
lem, we'll deal with it."
According to MacMurray, negotiations with the
town will begin immediately.
But Dowd was dubious. "This is only a step," she
said. "We'll see if what they're saying is true."
According to Susan Madigan, president of the Ori.
ent Association, a local residents' group, the decision
is a major setback. "I'm very disappointed with it,"
she said. "You have no idea the chaos that reigns
here. We're not prepared for this onslaught."
Since the new ferry offers special packages for people
traveling to the Foxwoods Casino on the Mashan-
tucket Pequot Reservation outside New London, the
town worries that gambling will be an additional draw.
"An enormous portion of Long Island is going to
funnel through Orient and East Marion,'. said South-
old's Town Supervisor, Thomas Wickham. "We're go.
ing to watch this very carefully."
1995
tV r 1/118'S
Jftl-.l{ If, tff~-
REGION
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High.Speed Fen-y Service
To Begin Across the Sound
Trying to Entice Gamblers to Connecticut
By JOHN T. McQUISTON
SOUTHOLD, L.I., July 18 - Thc
Foxwoods Casino on the Mashan.
lucket Pequot. Indian reservation
near New London, Conn., thinks it
has a sure bet: promoting the
launching of the first high-speed fer-
ry service across Long Island Sound.
The Long Island Rail Road also
wants a piece of the action.
The new se!'Vice, operated by
Cross Sound Ferry Services Inc., is
scheduled to begin on Wednesday
morning, when a twin-hulled cata-
maran, Sea Ski I, designed to carry
350 passengers, will make its maiden
run to Orient Point, L.I., from New
London.
No reservations are required and
boarding will be first come first
served. The cost of a same-day
round trip is $20. Passengers on the
first three ferries from Orient Point
will be able to take advantage of free
coach service to the casino and a $25
food and gambling bonus provided
by Foxwoods. The bonus Includes $10
in food credits and $15 In gaming
vouchers.
While the 12 daily crossings may
please gamblers, as well as others
planning to catch an Amtrak train in
New London for Boston, officials on
Long Island, including Thomas
Wickham, the Supervisor of the
Town of Southold, are not pleased.
"Southold has become a funnel for
all those on Long Island who seem to
have an insatiable appetite for gam.
bUng," Mr. Wickham said. "They all
take the one and only winding two-
lane road to Orient Point and leave
their cars parked all over the place."
"We don't want to close the opera-
tion down," he said. "We just want a
site plan for parking so we can get
out. of our driveways and the fire
trucks can get out of the firehouse."
. Attorneys fOr the town of Southold
went to court today seeking to block
the new service. They argued that
Cross Sound Ferry had failed to dis-
cuss the traffic problem with town
officials and file a plan to Improve
the terminal's parking lot to accom-
modate the expected increase in
traffic.
Justice Patrick Henry of State Su-
preme Court in Central Islip ruled
that Southold and the ferry operator
should work together to measure the
impact of traffic and res~~ve their
parking dispute. ....."
Using the combined L.I.R.R. and
express ferry service, it should take '
less time for Long Islanders to get to :
the Connecticut casino than it no\t
does to get . to Atlantic City, said
Stanley Mickus, a spokesman for
Cross Sound Ferry, whose headquar-
ters are in New London.
Cruising at 30 knots, Sea Jet I Is ~
the fastest ocean-going passenger'
vessel ever built in the United States: "
he said, and should cut travel time
for the 16-mile trip across the Sound
to 30 minutes. The larger, more con-
ventional ferries, operated on the
same route by Cross Sound Ferry,
take an hour and a half to transport
cars and trucks as well as passen-
gers. .
Even the Long Island Rail Roall '
has joined in promoting the new .
high-speed service. The commuter '
line will be offering a $25 paCkage '
for a round trip from Penn Station to
Foxwoods.
The gamblers special will leave
Penn Station at 7: 39 A.M. five morn-
ings a week and return at 12:26 A.M., ,
The package includes a l()..rninut<<:,
bus ride between the L.I.R.R. statiOl:),
at Greenport, L.I., and the Orient
Point ferry terminal, and a half-hour
bus ride from the New London ferry,
terminal to Foxwoods, in Ledyard,
15 miles northeast of New London.
The train will also pick up passen:-
gers at stops in Mineola, Hicksville, ,
Farmingdale and Ronkonkoma. .
High-speed ferry service acros~
the Sound has been a dream of the- J
tourist and business community_
ever since plans to build a third
bridge across across the Sound died
in the 1970's.
Most recently, the Suffolk County
Legislature supported a proposal for "
a new ferry terminal and high-speed,
service to COhnecticut from Shore-
ham, L.I., the site of the Long ISland:
Lighting Company's decommis-
sioned nuclear power plant. '
Opponents, including Shoreham'
residents, along with Lilco's hesitan-
cy to sign a lease, buried the idea.
The Suffolk County Executive, \
Robert J. Gaffney, said he welcomed. .
the new ferry service as a way to-
bbost the Island's economy.
"But I think I'll stick to the slower
ferry," he said. "It's been my experi:" .
ence with casino gambling that the
longer the trip takes to get there, the
better it is for me."
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Nl'wsctay ,John H_ Co"nl'll.J,
Sea Jet I, a high-speed, passengers-only ferry, sets out from the mouth of the Thames River in New London, Conn., on a press tour run
Jetting Cross Sound
By David Lefer
STAFF WRITER
The first high-speed ferry slated to
carry passengers across Long Island
Sound zoomed out of New London,
Conn. yesterday, rekindling hopes of a
speedy Long Island-ta-Boston run by
boat and train that has been dormant
since 1850.
But almost as quickly, Southold
Town officials hurried to stop the wave-
piercing catamaran dead in the water,
as they filed for a court injunction argu-
ing that the ferry company had failed to
provide parking in Orient for the in-
creased ferry traffic.
"People are parking allover the place.
I've never seen anything like it. It's a
complete mess," said Southold Supervi-
sor Thomas Wickham. "We're not trv-
ingto close them down. We're not tryi~g
to sink the ferry. We're asking for an
approv~! of <l sit~ phm for p~rk.~ng beforE'
But parking problem
threatens speedy ferry
they introduce this new service."
Officials of Cross Sound Ferry, which
operates the conventional car ferries
from Orient to New London and the
new, faster passenger-only ferry, would
not comment on Southold's move yes-
terday. Instead, aboard a trial run
around the Sound for reporters and
politicians, they brimmed with confi-
dence about their planned start for
fare-paying passengers tomorrow.
"It's opened up a whole new era in
terms of travel opportunities," said
Stanley Mickus, a spokesman for Cross
Sound Ferry.
Ferry offiJ;:i{lls e:<;pcc:t som!.:' of their
biggest business to come from gamblers
traveling to the Foxwoods Casino on
the Mashantucket Pequot Indian reser-
vation outside New London, and the ca-
sino plans to provide special packages
and bus shuttles for ferry passengers.
But by hooking up with the Long Is.
land Rail Road, the ferry also would re.
store the original purpose of the LIRR
tracks. which were built to carry New
Yorkers to Boston but were superseded
in 1850 by a rail line along the Con-
necticut shore.
The craft, christened yesterday the
Sea Jet 1, can travel at 30 knots, or
rOlJghlv 35 mpl1 - n;'(;hlC;~pg tplVel tirlW
between Long Island and Connecticut
from 1 v~ hours to 35 minutes.
And when Amtrak begins trial runs
of its new high-speed electric train from
New York to Boston in 1997. it could
mean a two-hour commute between the
North Fork and Boston.
The ship, according to CrOi:>S Sound
Ferry, is the nation \ fa~test ocean -go-
ing passenger ferry. According to
Mickus. the ship -~ which has previous-
ly operated in California, Hawaii and
Massachusetts --- cost $10 million new.
but he declined to say how much his
company paid for it.
The ship's interior is reminiscent of a
first-class cabin on an airplane. Televi-
sions located around the boat play mu-
sic videos; yesterday, Barbra Streisand
was everywhere.
The twin-hulls slice through the
:ple~se se~ Fl<~RRY on Pa,ge A~:~
3peedy Ferry,
I Parking Woes
FERRY from Page A4
waves, as computerized. hydraulic fins constantly ad-
just themsleves like airplane wings.
"What's my favorite thing [about the ship]?" said
Capt. John Xenides. uIt's fast."
But the service could be stopped or postponed if the
injunction filed by Southold is approved today. Town
officials were to be in State Supreme Court in River-
head this morning. Town Councilman Joseph Town-
send Jr., who lives near the Orient causeway - the
-oad that carries all the ferry's traffic - said people
his North Fork community must already deal with
streams of 100 cars or more going past their drive~
ways each time a car ferry unloads. "You can't pull
off. You can't make a left turn," he said. "We feel
they've already created a bad situation out there."
No such problems exist on the Connecticut side, said
New London Mayor John Strafaci. At a ceremony yes-
terday to christen the new boat, Strafaci said the ferry
service heralded a new age for the town.
"This is the first step in turning New London and
downtown New London into the premier transporta-
tion center in New England," he said.
But to some ferry passengers, a faster trip to the
Foxwoods casino was the real attraction.
HIt's a nice ride, but when you want to go to the
casino it takes too long," said Raymod Grottini of
Islip Terrace, aboard the slow ferry yesterday on his
way to the casino. Less time on the boat would mean
more time to gamble, he noted.
Amanda Abresch, a student from Lake Ronkon-
koma, said the high speed ferry was a great idea, espe-
cially because she travels between home and Boston
College many times a year. "I think it would be good
because my trip is so long.", "
But"other travelers yesterday said they savored the
long, slow ride in the salt air. Asked if he and his wife
would consider taking the new fast ferry, Tony Rudie
of Newton, Mass., said, "We certainly will not."
"We're not in a hurry," said Jean Rudie, who takes
eight to 10 trips a summer with her husband to Long
Island. "Shaving a half hour ofT isn't our objective.
The thing that keeps the East End nice is that it's
hard to get to."
Mitchell Freedman contributed to this story
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August 26, 1996
Motion carried.
***************
Rt. 25 In Mattltuck.
Board?
Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, lor this. Be it resolved that tt}ErS'Outhold Town
Planning Board, acting under the tate Environmental9kl~rity Review Act,
establishes Itself as lead agency, an as lead agens;~1fiakes a determination
of non-significance, and grants a Neg ive De afation.
Mr. Cremers: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, . Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cre
Mr. Ward: posed? Motion carried. Being no further b 'ness, anybody on
the Bo have anything at this point? We're going to be g . g to a work
se . n, but if you want to be on the record...
Thor Hanson: I just had two questions. The first one is your first It m that
you took up where you set the special meeting on the 16th. The last time I
talked to staff they said that was tentative. Does that mean It's a definite
date on the 16th therefore, and not tentative anymore?
Mr. Ward: That's correct.
Mr. Hanson: OK. The second is, I assume that you have not made a
determination now on who is going to be lead agency on the Cross Sound
Ferry site plan because It's not on here. I thought that was going to be
something tonight.
Mr. Orlowski: No.
Mr. Hanson: So you have not determined?
Mr. Orlowski: Not yet. That will be done on the 16th.
Mr. Hanson: That will be done on the 16th too?
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South old Town Planning Board
9
August 26, 1996
Mr. Orlowski: Yes.
Mr. Hanson: OK, thank you.
Mr. Ward: Anyone else have any business before the Board? If not, all is in
order for a motion to adjourn.
Mr. Latham: I'll move we adjourn.
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. Allin favor?
Ayes Mr. Oriowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting
adjourned at 713 p.m.
Respectfully submitted,
Martha A. Jones, Secretary
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Richard G. Ward, Chairman
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South old Town Planning Board
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July 29, 1996
Ayes Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward Opposed? Motion carried.
***************
Mr. Ward: Aqricultural Equipment Repair Shop - This proposed site plan is for
a 5,000 square foot agricultural equipment repair building, located on
Rt. 48 in Mattituck. SCTM# 1000-113-12-10.4. What's the pleasure of the
Board?
Mr. Cremers: Mr. Chairman I offer the following resolution. Be it resolved
that the Southold Town Planning Board start the coordination process on
this unlisted action.
Mr. Orlowski: Second.
Mr. Ward: Mr. Ward: Motion seconded. All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers, Mr. Ward.
Mr. Ward: Opposed? Motion carried.
***************
Mr. Ward: Cross Sound Ferrv - This site plan is to add additional parking to a
previously approved ferry terminal on Rt. 25 in Orient. SCTM#1000-
15-10.1, 11.1, 15.1 & 3.5. What we would like to do, this is the start ofthe
process of getting into the SEQRA review for environmental concerns of the
project. At this time what I'd like to have us do would be to first have the
applicant's engineer who is here tonight to make a formal presentation to
the Board, of which the publiC would also be invited to stay and see, of the
plan that they've prepared and are submitting to the Planning Board.
Secondly, our attorney Mr. Yakaboski is here who is handling the action of
behalf of the Town in our legal endeavors involving Cross Sound Ferry and I
will next ask him to talk a little bit about the process and where we're at.
Thirdly, I'm going to ask Valerie Scopaz, our Town Planner to give us a little
bit of overview of what the scoping session and what will be involved in the
SEQRA review.
And then fourthly I'd like to open it up for any comments that we would
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South old Town Planning Board
8
July 29, 1996
have from you that are here. So I think that would keep the process moving
in kind of an orderly fashion. So starting with that. Mr. Raynor I guess you'd
be on first.
John Raynor: In an attempt to enable everyone to hear, I'll stand here and
not get in front of things and I'll do my best to describe what I'm talking
about rather than pointing. To begin, my name is John J. Raynor. I'm a
professional engineer and land surveyor and my office is in Water Millon the
south fork. I was approached by Cross Sound Ferry In connection with the
legal endeavors that the Chairman referred to before and we have been
asked to assist them in preparing a site plan application to expand existing
parking facilities. For purposes of tonight's discussion I've prepared three
exhibits and they begin on the left as we are all viewing them from the
audience, with a representation of the existing conditions at the property.
The middle drawing Is the site plan which we prepared and submitted to the
Board for expansion and re-orlentation of parking on what is sometimes
known as the snack bar parcel. which is to the east of the state route.
The third drawing which is to the right of that. the last drawing on the right,
is a conceptual drawing of an overall coordinated site plan which the
Planning Board has asked us to prepare for discussion purposes in
connection with the entire environmental quality review process. So if I may,
I 'II go back to the one on the left and remind everyone that the area that's
colored in grey is the paved portion of the site that in the center of that
paved portion you can see the existing terminai building to the right of that
or to the east as we think of It. There is the snack bar which is colored in a
light tan color and the snack bar parcel is a somewhat V-shaped parcel that
runs from State Rt. 25 down to Gardiner's Bay.
To the east of that parcel is another parcel of land which Cross Sound Ferry
has the ability to use which is sometimes referred to as the trust parcel. It's
held in trust for one of the individuals who is associated with Cross Sound.
Our proposal to the Planning Board which is represented by the center
drawing was to re-orient the arrangement of parking in that space from its
current orientation which is north and south. Which is to say that cars
entering the parking area would travel in a north and south direction and
park in stalls that are oriented east and west. We propose to re-orient that
so that the traveling into that property is in an east-west direction and the
cars park north and south.
And part of the reason for that is that there is no formal provision there for
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South old Town Planning Board
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July 29, 1996
pedestrian movements and as you know it is unpaved and it is my
understanding that the sentiment in this part of the world is not to pave this
area. It was a temporary parking facility and we'd like not to increase the
amount of stormwater runoff going into the adjacent surface waters.
Consequentiy, we're trying to set up a pattern that will induce those who
leave their cars to move to the west. which is the natural place for them to
go to the terminai building to purchase their tickets, and then to waik to the
south down to the ferry docks themselves.
There is provided on that plan an appropriate amount of landscaped area,
according to your code. There are several islands in the parking area both
for landscape purposes and for lighting purposes. And underlying all of this
is a complete set of drainage proposals for this installation.
In the coarse of several meetings with the Board, I have heard from the
Chairman and from other members that you wanted us to look at the
hypothetical situation that we might consider all of the iand from the Pium
Island Animal Disease Laboratories property on the west to the end of any
property controlled by Cross Sound on the east. including that north-south
portion of Rt. 25. And to look at that entire tract as a potential opportunity
to improve the circulation both vehicular and pedestrian on the site, and to
hopefUlly provide sufficient parking so that we can obviate any of the
problems that the Town has experienced in the past.
So, we set to work on doing that and work both with the Cross Sound people
in New London and those who are more familiar with the operation here at
the Orient property. And we have established on that plan a suggestion for
a counter clockwise circulation of vehicular traffic. And I will try to describe
it in terms of those who might approach the property from Rt. 25.
As you know, at the present time as you come to the Cross Sound Ferry
property you have the option of turning in to the ferry staging area going
past the terminal building or continuing on Rt. 25 down to the old ticket
building close to the water. In fact. that is obliterated by this proposal and
all of the traffic that's approaching has the option of either coming in to the
ferry property or would have the option of going around the small traffic
circle so that they can return to Rt. 25 and head in a westerly direction.
There are a number of subtleties to that traffic movement. For example, we
have to provide for access to those who live to the north of the ferry
property and we have provided for that. There is an existing driveway there
that's an easement over the Cross Sound Ferry property and that would be
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Southold Town Planning Board
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July 29, 1996
preserved.
Those who would be approaching this area would see a sign initially that
would indicate they would stay to the ieft if they were returning to Rt. 25;
stay to the right if they were approaching ferry property. And as they get
into the lane for the ferry property, there would be signs indicating that they
have several options as they proceed.
One would be to go into either short term parking and drop off or ferry
staging and long term parking. And both of those traffic streams would pass
to the west of the terminal building and the most recently established
parking area which is on the west of the terminal building would become a
short term parking area and drop off area, And (inaudible) would be in that
area would then pass to the south of the terminal building and over into an
express exit lane that leads them back out to that traffic circle.
Those who are taking their vehicles on the ferry would pass the ticket booths
at the terminal building and depending upon the volume of traffic at the
time, would either stop there and purchase their ticket or be directed to the
appropriate staging lanes, return to the terminal building and purchase their
tickets. Those who are moving to long term parking would pass there, make
a left turn and go over into the long term parking which is all of that area off
at the east.
Now, once you've entered the property and perhaps gone off to New
England and returned, you'd be coming off the ferries and I'd like to
describe the traffic movement from that direction, When one leaves the
ferry the options are to go up the center of the property between two of
the pink lanes which are pedestrian lanes, and what I call the express exit
lane.
Those who would be leaving the boats and have all their passengers already
in the car would naturally go in that direction, But as we all know, there are
times when you pull off the ferry when those who perhaps have been
outside the care and had not yet gotten back In the vehicle. So those
people would be directed to the east at the southerly end of the long term
parking area where we have an arriving passenger pick up area, And they
could stop there and wait for their passengers to get into the cars and then
wouid proceed around the outside along the back side of an area that's
colored in orange and is marked "dune". And then up to the north and out
through the two pink lines that you see on there that are a queuing lane for
that exit.
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Southold Town Planning Board
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July 29, 1996
I'm doing the best I can without going over there and getting in everybody's
way and pointing to It, but if you foilow what I'm describing, we have two
lanes of traffic coming from the ferry. One that comes up to the center of
the property and one that goes around through the long term parking, and
they will merge just to the northeast of the terminal building
Part of the purpose for doing that is to establish sufficient stacking area or
queuing lanes, if you will, so that we can establish a traffic control device just
before traffic from this site exits onto Rt. 25 and you probably can't see It
from here but just at the south easterly corner of that traffic circle, there is
a stop line and at that point we wouid propose to provide a stop light which
would normaily be green and after a certain number of vehicles have passed
in a relatively restricted period of time, it would turn red and remain red long
enough to establish gaps in the traffic as it proceeds westerly on Rt. 25.
Now, all of what I have described is our attempt at interpreting what the
Planning Board was suggesting to us ought to be done. I don't suggest that
it's a perfect solution. It is offered as the initial step in the 5EQRA process
where the public, your professional staff, and perhaps the staff of other
agencies involved would comment and make suggestions so that if it is the
Planning Board's ultimate determination that a coordinated site plan rather
than just the expansion of the existing facilities should be considered and
pursued, that this might become the beginning of that discussion.
I could probably go on for a while, but I don't think I should. If you have
questions, I'm here to try to answer them. I'm sure I can answer ail of them.
One that comes to mind would be the number of parking spaces. I don't
recail offhand what it is but on the middle plan there is a notation in the
iower level of what the number of parking spaces would be on that
consolidated expanded parking faCility and I can walk over there and read it
to you if you like. And I recail that the number of spaces in the existing
westerly parking area, that was approved by this Board previously, is 69
spaces So the total of those two numbers is what is associated with that.
The hypothetical coordinated plan shows a total of 579 spaces In long term
parking and short term parking drop off. And It does have some stand by
staging area which I'd like to describe as well. Mr. Chairman, I'll sit down and
you can cail on me whenever you think it's appropriate.
Mr. Ward: Thank you. At this time I'd like to cail upon our counsel. Mr.
Yakaboski to give us a little bit of a status report as to where we're at and
what we are trying to accomplish here this evening.
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Southold Town Planning Board
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July 29, 1996
Frank Yakaboski: Thank you Mr. Chairman. Basically, ladies and gentlemen
the point we are at this evening Is that where the Board is about to adopt a
resolution, and I'm speaking slightly out of turn but I'm trying to answer
perhaps questions that might be in your minds before it's necessary to speak
openly about them or to have you address them and answer some of the
concerns we know you have.
We're about to start the SEQRA process and to begin the coordinated
review. It is the intention of the Board this evening to adopt a resolution
wherein all Interested agencies are provided with the plan presented by
Cross Sound and to solicit comments which wouid be arriving by the end of
the month of August. we would hope, thirty days, at which point this Board
would adopt lead agency status to begin the full SEQRA process which Ms. .
Scopaz will get into in a moment. to describe the nature of what wili take
place.
The action at this point. of this Board, doesn't signify or indicate approval or
disapproval of anything. It starts the process wherein the entire site
application will be subject to full review by all interested publiC agencies and
aiso to seek and receive appropriate comment from the community and
others who are interested in making comment regarding the site appiication.
Those comments will be received and will be considered.
So that in terms of where we are, we're at the point where Cross Sound has
submitted, after some time and again as you've heard from Mr. Raynor, they
were prepared to go forward previously. We asked, that is the Planning
Board asked for additional submissions which they've cooperated and
submitted to us regarding the incorporation of existing Rt. 25 as it runs
north and south between the Cross Sound (CHANGE TAPE) properties to
attempt in their view at this point to propose to us a concept for utilizing
the entire premises owned or controlled by Cross Sound as well as that
portion of Rt. 25 running north and south as it makes a hook, as it reaches
Its easterly terminus.
I don't have any further comment at this moment regarding that but that's
where we are and I'll turn the meeting over at this point briefly to Ms.
Scopaz, the Town's Planner to give you a rundown regarding what will be
taking place from this point forward regarding the SEQRA process
Mr. Ward: Just one Injection Frank would be that simultaneousiy with this,
really at this pOint we're acting like an agent for the Zoning Board because
that's where the initial action has started in terms of a request by Cross
Sound to utilize the residentially zoned property They have also filed with us
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JUly 29, 1996
simultaneously a request for site plan. So before this site plan could be
considered by this Board other than for the environmental review and
looking at ali the alternatives that would come out of an environmental
review, the Zoning Board would have to take action on that particular piece
of property that's residentialiy zoned. So this Board at the present time
doesn't have permission to use that, or the Town doesn't have permission to
use that particular piece of property for parking until it is resolved at the
Zoning Board of Appeals.
But what I would like to do now is turn this over to Valerie Scopaz to just give
a brief outline for ali of you that are here as to some of the essence of what
would go into the scoping session and environmental review.
Valerie Scopaz: Just to set the stage for exactly what we do as we lead into
the scoping session, I just want to reiterate what was mentioned by Frank
Yakaboski.
First off, the review of the application wili consist of an evaluation by ali
coordinating or involved agencies of ali the environmental factors that may
be impacted by the project. And the list of agencies that we wili
coordinated with include the foliowing Town, County, State and Federal
agencies, and I will list them in that order. The Town Board, the Building
Department, the Zoning Board of Appeals, the Board of Trustees, the County
Department of Health Services, the County Department of Transportation,
the Department of Planning, the Department of Public Works, and the
Department of Parks. The State Department of State, the Department of
Environmental Conservation, the Department of Transportation and the
Department of State Parks.
Finaliy, the Federal Department of Agriculture and the U,S. Army Corp of
Engineers. At the moment that's the list of ali agencies that might have an
interest in this project. And we're going to send the coordination notice out
to each of them along with a copy of the proposed plan, a copy of the EAF,
a copy of ali the supporting documentation that the appiicant has brought in
in support of his application. And ali of that wili be sent out to the
coordinating agencies.
Now what that means is that the coordinating agencies, we'll hear back from
them within thirty days as to whether they have an interest in being involved
in the review process. At that point, in thirty days, the Planning Board wili
make a determination as to whether the project wili impact the
environment, And if there is a positive finding of environmental impact,
meaning that the project is likely to have an impact, the applicant wiil be
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July 29, 1996
informed of these concerns through a scoping session.
This session is open to representatives of all the coordinating agencies with
whom we will have sent copies of this application - I just read you that list -
and members of the pubiic who wish to attend the scoping session, that
includes yourselves. The appiicant will then prepare a Draft Environmental
Impact Statement subsequent to that scoping session which will be reviewed
by the Planning Board for adequacy and completeness.
Now what I'd iike to do isjust briefly mention to you what's involved in the
scoping outline. The scoping outiine is basically a table of contents for the
Draft Environmental Impact Statement and it iists all the items of information
that the appiicant must provide so that all the agencies that are reviewing
this application will have the necessary in front of them.
The outline is about six pages long but I'm going to give you an abbreviated
version of it. Basically what the appiicant will do is provide a description of
the proposed action. He will describe the project purpose, its needs and
benefits. He will describe the location of the proposed action. He will
describe in narrative and in map format the design and layout of what he
proposes to do. And then he will give an indication of the construction and
operation plan, the time period during which the construction can be
expected to take place, and how the operation of the site will be taking
place, how they propose to do that.
And finally a listing of all approvals from other agencies that they may need,
for instance Health Department approval or whatever.
The next part of the session is to give a description of the environmental
setting of the project, and there are several sections to that. Basically, they
have to discuss the natural resources and the human resources that may be
impacted by this proposed project. And just to give you a brief listing of the
items which they must address within the description of natural resources,
they must discuss the geology, the water resources and that inciudes
ground water as well as surface water, and a discussion of the proposed
drainage of the site.
This also, geology, water resources, terrestrial and aquatic ecology, they
must discuss the vegetation, the wildlife and the wetlands that exist on the
site and could possibly be impacted by the proposed action.
Under human resources that might be impacted by this project, they are
required to discuss transportation, land use and zoning impacts, community
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July 29,1996
service impacts and cultural resource impacts. And included in cultural
resources is a discussion of visual resources that may be impacted.
The fourth aspect of this project is that they are required in this document
to discuss the significant environmental Impacts of the project for the
application that they're proposing. And in that description they must
indicate those aspects of the environmental setting that may be adversely or
beneficially effected by the proposed action.
The next chapter in this report is a discussion of mitigation measures to
minimize the environmental impacts that have been described and
identified in the prior section. And in that section the applicant will describe
what measures he is going to suggest to minimize the identified
environmental impacts. And again, those mitigation measures will be
discussed in the same format as the description of the environmental
resources that I listed earlier and that is geology, water resources, terrestrlai
and aquatic ecology, transportation, land use and zoning, community
services and cultural resources.
50 there will be a description of the project and its proposed impact and
then a discussion of the mitigation measures that they're going to
incorporate into their proposal.
The next section of the report must discuss adverse environmental effects
that cannot be avoided if the project is implemented. That means that
regardless of whatever mitigation measures may be adopted and
implemented, there may be some adverse environmental impacts that
cannot be avoided. And if that is the case, in that section of the report this
will be discussed.
The next section will deal with alternatives. 5EQRA law requires that the
applicant not only discuss the proposals that he puts before an agency; they
must discuss other alternatives. One of which is to do nothing alternative
and another which is an alternative type of layout or design or proposal and
that encompasses a wide range of proposals. It can be the size of the
proposal, It can be just the way It's configured within its boundaries.
The next section of the document is a listing of irreversible and irretrievable
commitment of resources. That is basically those natural and human
resources that would be consumed, converted or made unavailable for
future use. And again, this is a listing of, in the same order as the listing that
I mentioned to you earlier.
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July 29, 1996
The last two sections of the report are basically a list of references utilizing
the preparation of the report and finally, appendices; technical reports,
documentation, relevant correspondence, site plans, maps, studies, reports,
whatever technical data the applicant feels is necessary to explain and give
the background material for the information they've presented in their
report.
Mr, Ward: Thank you Valerie. I'd just like to make mention before I forget
about it is that there was an announcement by Supervisor Jean Cochran that
tomorrow evening at 7:30 p,m, here, the remaining Boards in the Town will
be present to field any other questions regarding the process and where
we're at in terms of the Town of Southold, So you're welcome to come to
that meeting to talk a little further about it.
I'd like to just make a statement before we go any further as to the reasons
that I'll be abstaining from any of the actions taken by this Board, I'd like to
just briefly read a statement here. Sometime after a site plan was approved
by the Planning Board in 1984 Cross Sound Ferry received a grant from New
York State for improvements to the ferry terminal at Orient Point. Upon
receipt of the grant notice by Cross Sound Ferry a condition of the grant was
that Cross Sound Ferry retain an independent engineer to inspect the
dolphin and piling portion of the project,
Cross Sound Ferry contacted an engineering partner of mine who has the
civil and marine engineering expertise and engaged our firm to provide
these engineering services. Cross Sound Ferry, upon learning of our
architectural capabilities also engaged our firm to file plans for the ferry
terminal building that you see there,
Prior to and subsequent to twelve years ago, I had no relationship with Cross
Sound Ferry other than as an independent consulting professional firm,
providing inspection and design services related to the New York State grant.
Since this professional involvement with Cross Sound Ferry some twelve
years ago I've had no further professional or personal relationship with Cross
Sound Ferry,
Since my prior involvement with Cross Sound Ferry could be looked upon as
being conflict. I will abstain from voting on any and all actions brought by
Cross Sound Ferry before this Board. I just wanted to make that statement
clear because there was some question about my prior involvement with
Cross Sound Ferry,
At this time I would like to open it up for anyone that's here to address the
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JUly 29, 1996
Board on the environmental process that we're into.
Thor Hansen I'm the President of Southold Citizens for Safe Roads (SCSR).
just had a couple of brief comments. First I think that's a very interesting
concept. the drawing. It seems to me that it's very nice that the drawing
and the concept is addressing some Town concerns such as staggering the
traffic and all that. But to me it seems anything but a site plan. It has so
much less detail even when the preliminary site plan that was sent in some
months ago and was sent back, rejected.
He just talked a little bit. Mr. Raynor, about the numbers of cars although I
guess he did give us those numbers. But there's nothing about drainage
which previous plans have addressed it seems to me. Lighting. Distances
that cars would be from the wetlands, from the bay. Many things that it
seems to me would be very important when you send this out. or whatever
is sent. to that long list of agencies that Ms. Scopaz addressed to see if
they're interested.
I don't know how they'll be able to tell if they've got an interest if that's the
sort of thing they get because it really lacks tremendous detail and I can't
understand how a Draft EIS can come out of something that is that much a
concept and not a plan. Those are the comments i really wanted to make.
Kevin McLaughlin: I'm at attorney here in Southold. I appear before you
tonight on behaif of Doug and Monique Morris who are the property owners
of a residential parcel directly east of that residential parcel controlled by the
ferry which they would like to convert into a very substantial parking lot.
Obviousiy I'm here vehemently opposed and will appear before all of the
various Boards in opposition to any use of that residential parcei for parking
purposes. But I understand what the function is of this Board this evening. I
wouid agree wholeheartedly with Mr. Hansen's comments that if the plan or
the conceptual drawing or whatever you wish to call it, furthest to the right,
is what this Board intends to submit to other agencies, i don't understand
how they can have meaningful input Into the environmental review process.
They will be lacking in any meaningful details what plan it is that the ferry has
to coordinate all of these parcels and to vastly expand their parking
capabilities.
I'm really frankly at a loss to understand how this Board could send out a
plan like that and expect to get back any kind of meaningful input from all of
those agencies that were listed and I'd be interested if the Board could
respond to that.
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Southold Town Planning Board
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JUly 29, 1996
Eric Bressler: I'm speaking on behalf of Thor Hansen's group. I have a direct
question for the Board and I think it's one that was eluded to by Mr.
McLaughlin What is it exactly that's going to be sent out to all the other
agencies? Is it the one in the middle only?
Mr. Ward: No, it would be all of the plans.
Eric Bressier: All three of these?
Mr. Ward: Yes,
Eric Bressler: if that's the case, then I must echo what Mr. McLaughlin said. I
fail to see how, we'll call it number three to the extreme right, gives anybody
any meaningful notice of anything. Even a cursory review in comparison of
numbers two in the middle and three on the right, reveals that drawing
number three shows - as conceded by the applicant - increased parking on
the eastern portion and diminished parking on the western part of that
combined parcel
Well how do we get there? It seems clear since they're both 1 to 20 scale
that we are substantially closer to the water. How much closer, I don't
know. There are no distances up there. I don't know how anybody Is going
to be able to give any sort of input with respect to that sort of a plan.
Now, since the Board has indicated that number two and number three are
both gOing up there, and one of them isn't a site plan, again I'm not sure
what sort of input you're going to get back. Now harkening back to what
we said at the last meeting, it seems to me that the Board has done
something very positive here and that is that they have addressed the
conc~rn that this project be dealt with on a unified basis. I don't need to go
back over again and again what happened the last time with that other
parcel to the west. And we don't want that to happen again and I think the
Board is to be commended for bringing drawing number three forward.
However, in the same breath that commendation has to be tempered by the
fact that these folks didn't go far enough and they didn't give you what
ought to be there and I think what's going to come back from the agencies
is just what Mr. McLaughlin said, gee we don't know, do you think you could
give us a little bit more information? And I don't think that a consideration
of site plan number two is legally permissible to go forward.
I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't think so and I think this Board will
lay itself open for challenge if It proceeds on number two. defacto, which is
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JUly 29, 1996
what it is doing by accepting two and three in the state that it's in. So, I
would respectfully suggest that what be done is that number two be
discarded, number three be upgraded to the status at least in detaii of
number two and if that's the way you want to go, I think it's the way we
ought to go, one integrated plan down there for the first time in i don't
know how many years.
Then let's go forward on that basis, there are some positive things in that
plan. Some of the concerns of Mr. Hansen's group have been addressed at
least in part. Other questions are raised by it, questions concerning what
appears to be an abandonment of State Rt. 25 and the public's access to get
to the water, need to be addressed. The number of spaces of parking, the
proximity to the water, the lighting, the drainage, the height of the dunes,
all of these things are going to come back to haunt us. And again i don't
want to see this thing done piecemeal.
In closing, I would like to reiterate just one more time what I said the last
time which is SCSR is not here to kill the ferry. What we are here to do is to
make sure that there is a responsible site plan put into place, one site plan
that reflects the needs of the Town, the needs of it's citizens, while at the
same time attempting to deal with what we believe to be a self created
difficulty. What we believe to be a, gee we increased our business and now
you guys have to help us and we know we came to you last year and we told
you we were just going to do this little parking lot over here and all of a
sudden the ferries came in.
Be that as it may, that's what this Board has in front of it and you've got to
deal with it. And we think the way you've got to deal with it is door number
three over there and we think you've got to deal with it and you've got to
make it right and then you've got to send it around. I've never seen
anything like this. In all the years I've been doing this I've never seen
anything like two and like three go out there. And I dare say, I don't think
the Board has either. So, iet's take care of number three, iet's send it out,
let's not send an ambiguous message and let's deal with the issues. Thank
you.
Stanley Shiller: My name is Stanley Shiller of Mattituck. In listening to Mr.
Raynor give us a hopeful suggestion to address our concerns, which is
traffic. Now this business of having a stop light there with an intermittent
stall the flow of the traffic every few minutes, that traffic is going to stack
up within two or three miles. That plan has been tried on the VanWyck
Expressway and other highways. You (inaudible) intermittent traffic by
putting a stop light and a stop light would have to be longer than a minute
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July 29, 1996
or so to give us a break on the (inaudiblel. So I think that's an inadequate
addressing of the problems we have and that's traffic. Thank you.
Mr. Ward: Anyone else like to address the Board this evening?
Bruce Carr: I'm with SCSR (CHANGE TAPE) I think another zoning issue has
been raised. There's a building shown on board number two which shows
property that used to be owned by a family named Blauveit. As I understand
the conceptuai drawing board number three, this is now to be converted to
a snack bar, from what I would consider a commercial use, from residential.
So, that's a question I have.
i believe aiso that this may constitute a segmented review although we have
seen larger area covered then before for board number three, there's still a
parcel of underwater land which has not been addressed in this drawing and
has not been talked about by anyone and has deeded rights attached to the
property of the Blauvelt house for ferry use, for possible future construction
of additional docks, piers, whatever.
A general comment also is that I would have liked to have heard some
commentary on thresholds in terms of number of parking spaces, amount of
traffic in this area, number of people, number of boats, size of boats. All of
these things I know will come up in a SEQRA process but I feel that they
should somehow be accommodated at this time with site plan, a fuller site
plan than what we see.
Another point is the designation of lead agency status to the Planning Board.
As I understand it has taken one year for Cross Sound Ferry to arrive with
something resembiing a fuller plan without at all suggesting blame at this
paint, I wonder why the Planning Board has allowed so much time to pass. I
hear today that the Chairman has excused himself from decision making on
this matter. I wonder, I'll simply put It out as a question, that if a State
agency perhaps the Department of State or another agency might essentially
have a larger perspective and perhaps less inherently, localized perspective
of what (inaudible) should be reached on this issue.
My last comment is that Harold Watson had prepared a quite detailed
package on (inaudible) concerns of the use of this area around the water
and had forwarded copies of it to the Planning Board among many other
people and i hope you all get a chance to read that. Thank you for your
time.
Mr. Ward: Is there anybOdy else that would like to address the Board this
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JUly 29, 1996
evening?
Gertrude Reeves: I'm from Orient. I've lived at the Point for sixty some years
of my life. I worked for the ferry previous to these (inaudible) for 13 years. I
would like you to understand, looking at number three where the first
orange part of the drawing is, I have seen people come off of the ferry not
only when i worked there but many times since, have to take their shoes off
and walk in water halfway up the calf of their legs. i hope that's going to be
addressed. You have a berm there and I think that berm would probably
hold the water in instead of letting it out on the beach.
I wonder when the Cross Sound Ferry obtained the State road?
Mr. Ward: I'm sorry, what was that?
Ms. Reeves: I wonder when Cross Sound Ferry bought or got the State road
down to the ferry? Local people and people coming down to the end of
Long island go all the way to the end of Rt. 25. They get there, they can't
turn around. There is no where to turn around. But it is the State road and
they're making use of it, both sides of it, walking across it.
The other thing is you have a traffic circle. Is that also part of Rt. 25?
Mr. Ward: Yes.
Ms. Reeves: The circle will be on Rt. 25? Absolutely no.
Frank Yakaboski: Just a couple of comments before the Board proceeds. Mr.
Carr you raised a number of very appropriate points regarding the Issues
that you feel are Important to be dealt with, the traffic, the flow, but
candidly and not looking to put you off at all the SEQRA process, and you
know it but I know you're looking for more, but our site plan application
does not envision the provision of this type of information as designed to
come forth from the SEQRA process. So that your issues will be addressed,
and will be considered in the SEQRA process.
Ms. Reeves, your issue regarding the traffic or the configuration of Rt. 25, if
you will, please don't pick on Cross Sound for that, and I know you're not,
but that was something the Board asked Cross Sound to do. In fact, you
may be aware perhaps you're not, and I'll make you aware if you're not, and
I don't mean to be condescending.
Some time ago the State DOT officials met here with Town officials and
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Southold Town Planning Board
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July 29, 1996
indicated that if the Planning Board thought it appropriate, the State DOT
would like it if that segment of Rt. 25 which you see on the far right pian
there were incorporated as an overali part of the Cross Sound Ferry site,
assuming that provision could then be made for access to the bayfront,
Gardiner's bayfront to the general public.
These discussions were had here at Town Hali i believe, some months ago.
So in working this us, this Board has been working with Cross Sound and
considering it's proposals for some months now. And this concept was
presented to them and it was asked that they present this to us in the form
of an integrated plan. This doesn't mean that this is going to be the plan. It
certainly doesn't But it's going to be considered as part of the overali
process.
Ms. Reeves: Then i would like to know where Rt 25 wili end? What wili be
(inaudible) people up in front of that circle, so that they can't even turn the
car around? That they wlli be involved in going down through the ferry line
and out through the other side?
Mr. Yakaboski: I know what you're saying, I don't purport to know the answer
to that as we stand here. I don't know whether the applicant wants to
address that at this point or we wait for the process. In terms of, you mean
if you want to go fishing, let's say? Right? Or you want to go to the beach?
Ms. Reeves: Weli, where are they getting the beach? Is the Cross Sound
Ferry going to donate it?
Mr. Yakaboski: Well. Cross Sound Ferry owns to the high tide mark.
Ms. Reeves: Absolutely. That whole section, ali that you have there on the
map.
Mr. Yakaboski: Right And I believe because I was here for the work session
and l'li ask Mr. Raynor to correct me if I'm Incorrect, that that portion
designated dune on that far right plan was something that the DEC In
consulting with Mr. Raynor proposed be included as part of this plan. So I'm
presuming that in terms of distances and the like that the DEC has already
had some look at this. Is that correct Mr. Raynor?
Mr. Raynor i did not participate in that meeting, but I believe you're correct
in your representation of it There is some space between what we have
shown as a proposed dune iocation on the edge of the water so that there
is.. .excuse me, there's space between that and the high water mark which
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July 29, 1996
would not normally be available for people, but would be in this case.
Ms. Reeves I'll add to that then. Where would they put their cars in order to
go to the beach?
Mr. Yakaboski: How would a member of the general public who can now park
at the end of Rt. 25, albeit for 10 seconds, I don't know if that's been
considered. Mr. Raynor?
Mr. Raynor I think there's a fairly complex process that still has to be carried
out here to make determinations like that. We do expect, for exampie that
Cross Sound Ferry will incur some expense in securing the use of that
property and there's a relatively small number of spaces available to people
in the Rt. 25 property now to get to...
Mr. Yakaboski: 15 or so.
Mr. Raynor: 15 or so, maybe 20 as a maximum shown on the original site
plan (Inaudible). I presume that after we have some comments from Town
Planning Board and the other agencies that there will be some changes in
the circulation patterns refiected in the overall site plan. And I think that we
can incorporate soiutions to the problem that this lady has raised tonight, In
that. The opportunity is certainly there because there is a much greater
number of parking spaces provided under this plan then under the current
situation, so there shouldn't be any reason why that can't be found here.
Mr. Yakaboski: Thank you. Mr. Chairman?
Mr. Ward: If there are no further comments? Yes?
Freddie Wachsburger: Vice President of SCSR. I must say it comes as kind of
a shock to realize that they suggested to give away that part of Rt. 25 and
public access to the beach which is a historic one. A historic public access
that we have on many early records which you wouid see if you did read Mr.
Watson's presentation that he made to all of you. That that suggestion to
give that away to Cross Sound actually came from a Board of the Town
government.
Mr. Yakaboski: That's not so, Ms. Wachsburger.
Ms. Wachsburger: I thought that was what you just said.
Mr. Yakaboski: No, what I said was that In discussion with the State
Department of Transportation with various Town officials, it was the DOT who
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July 29, 1996
had suggested that it would be amenable to the concept of incorporating
that portion of Rt. 25 which runs north and south as part of the overall plan
of Cross Sound in dealing with its traffic, parking, pedestrian flaw, etc. In
considering the site plan application of the Cross Sound people at its last
meeting, the Board felt that It would request that Cross Sound's engineers,
as part of an integrated plan, design and present to it a concept for
consideration for as part of the overall SEQRA process. And this is what we
have. We're making no proposal to give away publiC access or public rights
to gain access to the beach.
Ms. Wachsburger: I'm sorry, that seems to me you're saying two different
things. And I don't see any indication on here where the publiC access to
the beach would be. My question really is only having heard what both
attorneys presented here and not seeing any response from any of you,
obviously there is a time consideration here, I understand it's 30 days, by
which all of these possibly interested agencies have to respond. If you
trigger that with this conceptual plan which does not give them any
indication of the relationship of any of this to the coastal zone, to where the
(inaudible) or high water mark, to any of the features, but just exists there in
a conceptual way that is tied to no particular landscape. How can they
respond?
I'm not seeing any response from any of you to this essential question that if
we're going to have adequate involvement of all of these deeply concerned
agencies, and by the way I didn't hear any reference in here to the coastal
zone management either, but if we're going to have the essential
participation of these agencies, how can you start the clock rolling with
something that is incomplete. I really feel that we, the public, need an
answer to that right now because obviously what you do tonight is going to
have an impact on that.
Mr. Ward: We're going to ask Ms. Scopaz to respond.
Ms. Scopaz: I just would like to ciarify something. When I said the 30 day
period within which agencies have to respond, I should have ciarified it by
saying that they must indicate within that period of time whether they
would like to be part of the ongoing review. The scoping session does not
take place within that 30 day period. The scoping session will take place
after that period.
Ms. Wachsburger: But they've still decided whether they want to be involved
on the basis of...
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July 29, 1996
Ms. Scopaz: Let me finish. At the scoping session we will go through the
table of contents as it were, for the draft EIS and we will go into a great level
of detail as to exactly what type of information must be included within the
DEIS. When that impact statement comes in, it is going to include all the
details of which you spoke, because in order for them to provide the
information that the State requires be in that document, they're going to
have to go to that level of detail, and that will be part and partial of the
document.
When the document comes in, if it deems to have all the information that
it's supposed to have, it will then be released to the public and you will have
at least 30 days to read and pore over this document to make any kind of
comments that you wish to make, before we'll be holding a public hearing
on that. And in addition to that you can submit anything you want, in
writing. And that information will be sent back to the applicant. The
applicant will be asked to respond to concerns that come up at that time.
The level of detail will be there within which we can have the discussion
that.
Ms. Wachsburger I don't think I made myself clear. I'm stili not getting an
answer to the specific point of how will these agencies that you send this
out to be able to make a determination whether or not they feel it
appropriate to be involved if they don't have more information than this to
base that on. I'm talking about this 30 days that starts now and the sending
this stuff out to these agencies who then have to decide whether they want
to be invoived or not. How can they decide on the basis of this?
Ms. Scopaz: As i said eariier, this will be sent out with the total information
packet, the environmental impact statement that they submitted, the
assessment form. They also submitted a document, John Raynor put
together a document that has additional technical information that will
explain what the proposal is. I think your question deais with you feel that
the agencies in question will need a greater level of detail than is shown on
the plan.
I would counter by saying that the agencies involved are very used to doing
the SEQRA process and they know that what comes in is not necessarily what
will end up being approved and their basic function is to review it and see if
any portion of the project would be within their jurisdiction. And at that
point you then invite them to come to the scoping session to bring their
concerns about the type of information that they will need. And this is a
very important part of the thing, sometimes agencies will be very specific.
They might ask for an application to be made or for specific types of
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July 29, 1996
information so they can make that determination.
Charles Mearn: I'm aiso with SCSR. We've seen what is more or less a biank
comprehensive site plan for all four iots but the supplemental information
that you referred to, does that also include data on ali four lots or just on
the proposed new parking lots?
Ms. Scopaz: My understanding is that the applicant Is going to be submitting
additional information, correct me if I'm wrong Mr. Raynor, but the
information pertains to basically the two lots on the east.
Mr. Mearn: Well that's not really a comprehensive site pian then, so all they
get is a comprehensive picture of a piece of space out on Orient Point, but
no details on what is on the comprehensive four lot site pian.
Ms. Scopaz: Well again, I think the Board made it clear that when the
package goes out, that In the letter to the coordinating agencies it will be
stated very clearly that we are looking at the entire project not just portions
of it.
Mr. Mearn: Just one last comment, it seems to me you're ieaving an awfui lot
of imagination up to these reviewing agencies.
Tom Murray: I'm with the group SCSR also and I'm having a problem in trying
to understand. First is that it has taken a year to get to this point where we
are now. Number two is that our attorney and another attorney and many
members of the audience have asked a direct or a number of direct
questions to the Board, to you. The second, number two, was discussed and
thought that possibly that that should not be sent.
I haven't heard any kind of response, maybe you're going to respond to us
before you make...what I'm afraid of is that you're just going to make a
resolution and I wouid prefer that not to happen. I would prefer that our
comments would be at least responded to. Again, Is number two going to
be in or out? And more important than number two is number three. That
is just a lot of bunk and what I'm deeply concerned with is that we will go
back to this stalling tactic that we've had from the ferry and from the
attorneys that many issues and many things will be submitted, some in
subterfuge, where we may not be able to see these documents, that there
will be letters going back and forth from this agency to that agency, to this,
to that and to you And there will be responses to these letters. Some of
these responses may not necessarily be correct and I'm concerned that a iot
of issues may continue to be unresolved and determinations may be made
.
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Southold Town Planning Board
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July 29, 1996
without certain information being fully discussed.
So I think at the most basic sense at this meeting tonight. and I really plead
with you not to make a blanket resolution until you at least respond to some
of our questions. I think we have the right to be concerned about sending
number three to 57 agencies. And God only knows what they're going to
say to us. And God only knows what these people are going to respond to
those particular agencies. So If maybe we could just get the basics of this
taken care of now so at least we would feel a little bit of comfort before we
take the next step. Thank you.
Mr. Ward: Just in general, in terms of correspondence and what's going to
go and come from all the agencies, it's a full and open file in the Planning
Board office. There are no secret documents. This is something that's a
process that's in the public realm. It's not something that's done in a closet
some place. The other issues, there are many issues that have been
addressed tonight. Many, many and many more that will be addressed as
the process progresses.
I don't think anybody on the Planning Board tonight is even in a position to
say this is the plan we should have or will ever have. And certainly one of the
alternates that has to be looked at in the process is that if they don't get the
variance on the residential lot. what happens then? So there are a lot of
issues that are out there that have to be iooked at. And the only way we're
going to get a full look at them is to get into the process. We don't know
truthfully any other way because there are so many questions to be
answered that the environmental review is pretty much the way it's going to
go about. but let's open up here, we've got some more that would like to
address the Board.
Charlotte Hansen: I'm also with 5CSR. I just have a couple of very simple
questions. One is that in the interim, and I'm naive to the 5EQRA process I'm
new to it all, but in the interim while all of this work is going on, the 30 days,
40 days and so on, what kind of restrictions would be on Cross Sound to do
or not to do anything until the process is over?
Mr. Ward: Well, there is nothing that can be done until there is an approved
site plan and we're quite a ways from having that.
Ms. Hansen: The reason I asked of course is whether it's true or false, there's
been lots of speculation in the population about what is happening while the
process is still in abeyance and maybe the Board could speak to what is
legitimate or possibly illegitimate concerns on our part. That would be
.
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South old Town Planning Board
28
July 29,1996
helpful Than you
Mr. Ward: Weill know that there were some concerns in terms of use of the
residential property by Cross Sound. I believe that the Town code
enforcement has been keeping an eye out I think they have addressed some
of the issues on that. The Planning Board is not involved with code
enforcement so it's difficult for us to respond to it in total. Tomorrow night
it would be a good question to raise if there are some problems that you see
out there for the Town Board to know about and aiso for code enforcement
to know about.
Kevin McLaughlin: Maybe just because it's late at night and my brain is not
working very well, but I'm still at a total loss as to how you can send out all
three of these sketches, site plans or whatever and expect to get back any
meaningful repiy from any agency. Are they replying to what exists? Are
they going to reply as to what would appear to at least have most of or
some of the elements of a site plan, or are they responding to this
rendering, this conceptual plan. They're not the same plan. You're going to
be receiving back comments of confusion I would assume. What is the
application here? What map, what drawing? (CHANGE TAPE) What are we
supposed to be reviewing as part of determining whether we want to get
our agency involved further in the SEQRA process?
Frankly, if i walked into your office In behaif of an applicant and handed you
number three, you would rightfully laugh me out of your office and say
you've got to be kidding me. You've got no detail here. There's nothing.
But you're expecting agencies to get all three of these with whatever other
package of information they may receive from you, sort this all out and give
you back meaningful comment. And I think you're asking much too much of
people. if this was handed to me I would have no way of being able to
interpret what plan is presently before this Board as far as a site plan.
John Raynor: Mr. Chairman, I think I can clarify and probably answer a
portion of Mr. McLaughlin's question. The 30 day period that has been
referred to several times tonight is the initial stage of the SEQRA procedure.
And rather than being an invitation to comment, it is really an inquiry to
other involved agencies as to whether or not any of those agencies wish to
stand as the lead agency. That Is the sole substance of your referral to them
for the coming 30 days.
You provide them with sufficient Information to at least know where the
property is located and generally what Is being proposed, but the issues of
presentation of facts and the alternatives all fall under the purview of the
.
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Southold Town Planning Board
29
July 29, 1996
preparation of the Draft Environmental Impact Statement. And the
comments from all of those agencies properly must await the compietion of
that draft statement because that is what they are to examine. So the only
issue before them at this point will be shouid they stand and ask to be the
lead agency. I don't believe that you need any of the information on any of
those three drawings to raise that Question. This site is well known to all of
those agencies.
Eric Bressler: Mr. Chairman, members of the Board, I share Mr. McLaughlin's
frustration. I think that Mr. Raynor's comment points up one of the serious
difficuities facing the Board here. He used the word alternative and I think
that's an appropriate use of the term. But I think it begs a Question. An
aiternative to what? How many parking spaces are on number three? Is it
more or is it less than on number two, plus the western parcel. How many
feet closer to the water is number three than number two. Well maybe we
should have an alternative to that. Well what could that alternative possibly
be? We don't even know what it is. Maybe I'm missing something here but I
listened to everything that these folks said and if you're gOing to have
alternatives and if some agency is going to decide whether it's going to be
the lead agency or not, it seems to me that it ought to have the basics in
front of it so that it can determine whether it wants to be lead agency
Now, you may hear them say well OK, we're going to expiore all of that in
the SEQRA process. Well where is the starting point? Aren't we going to
have a starting point? Is this going to be a new type of DEIS based on
number three where we're going to fill in the blanks at the last minute? I
don't understand how that works and I think what Kevin said is so. If
anybody else had brought this into the office and said, look at this and start
the SEQRA process you would have said no, we need a starting point. And I
think we need a starting point here and I think you have to insist on one so
that people can evaluate it and decide what they're going to do about it.
Elfreida VonNodroff: I'm from Orient. I just have one Question and that is, I
haven't been to these meetings before. I'm sympathetic with peopie who
have spoken, I agree with them, But sitting here as fairly much of a new
person in this room, i can't help but ask why isn't Cross Sound Ferry giving
the information people are asking for? Why are they so reluctant to say how
many parking places or how many feet from the ocean or all of these things.
They must be taking this into consideration. They're a business corporation.
Why can't they provide us, or you, with that information? Thank you
William Esseks: I'm the attorney for the applicant. I can understand how the
pubiic doesn't understand the complexities and ambiguities of the SEQRA
.
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Southold Town Planning Board
30
Juiy 29, 1996
process. I can't understand the purposeful ignorance of the counsel who
have addressed you maliciously and In a somewhat amusing fashion. A
month ago I was here, we submitted this application in the spring, we were
here a month ago and we asked you to vote to start the coordination for
lead agency determination, the very basic first step. And pursuant to Part
617 of the (inaudible) CRR, we have given you and you have received
dramatically more information than is necessary to start the lead agency
determination. I know that, counsel knows that, the Board knows that, the
Board's consultant knows that.
Now, last month the Chairman said to us would we give you additional
information for a conceptual plan. It Involves property that we don't own, It
involves property that we don't control. We have no ability to make an
appiication to somebody eises property. Notwithstanding that and knowing
of the state's Interest...
Unknown: Why are you doing it?
Mr. Esseks: Because we were asked to do it last month and people here are
carping and complaining, now you're doing it, do more of it. We don't have
to do that. We did that because we were asked to do that and we
presented those papers and I believe that at some point in the process, one
of the alternatives to be considered will be an overall site plan application
including a property that we don't own.
But we're not going to submit an application for property that we don't own
because that would be inappropriate, You don't have jurisdiction over
property that we don't own. And we can't ask for It. Now, our application is
the one in the middle. We ask you to start the process of coordinated
review, which Is the process whereby you people end up screaming and
shouting and fighting In the future about what this process Is going to be,
but you can't really start the screaming and shouting until we have a lead
agency and you can't have a lead agency until they adopt a resolution to
start the lead agency process. You want to fight even before it starts.
Now I most respectfully suggest that you pass a resolution to direct the
secretary to send out the notices and our application to all the agencies that
might be invoived. And then a month from now you can decide you want to
be the lead agency or some other agency can say they want to be lead
agency And then they can have a scoping session and people can come and
say they want this addressed or they want that addressed. They want the
State Highway to be included or not inciuded. They want to have access to
the ocean or not, to the bay. Any of those things are perfectly proper, but
.
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Southold Town Planning Board
31
July 29, 1996
you can't do it until you start the process.
Now, we shouidn't be beaten for bringing you the paperwork that you asked
for, in the same way that we shouldn't be punished, maybe we should be
rewarded, We need to move ahead, The Board is well aware of how to start
the process, The lawyers who have spoken know exactly how to start the
process, so why don't we do it. And I hope we don't have to have the same
conversation again. We should get on to dealing with the merits of the
application.
Ed Halpert: I'm a resident of Southold. That's the most absurd argument.
You say that you're putting forward plan two, when we've just been told it's
plan three, Then you're saying you don't need to put forward any plans
because you don't own the property, Now it's utterly confusing to someone
who simply wants to know what you want to do.
Mr, Esseks: That will come in the process, (Everyone talking)
Mr, Halpert: If we had a basis of trust in what your lead is we might very well
say, fine we'll wait for the process to spin out. But, obviously there are a
great many people In this room who feel very strongly that they are
suspicious of the intent of the ferry company. Now, we were brought to
that, out of the clear blue we were brought to it because of time delays and
precipitous action on the part of the ferry company without approval and
plan. And if we want safeguards in knowing what your intention is, it's
insulting to us to say, no we're going with the second plan here, when your
planner has said no it's the plan on the far right. Maybe other people are as
confused as i am.
Mr. Esseks: That's a purposeful statement, that's not correct.
Mr, Halpert: Well please answer my point. What are you saying is the specific
pian that you're going with or is it your intention to say you don't have to be
specific, which is what you said,
Mr Esseks We submitted an application to the Town, There are copies with
the clerk of the Town, If you wish a copy, if you wish to have it, come to my
office tomorrow, we'll make a xerox copy of it an give it to you.
Mr. Halpert: Is it two or three Mr. Esseks?
Mr. Esseks: It's two. No one's ever said to the contrary,
.
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Southold Town Planning Board
32
JUly 29, 1996
Mr. Halpert: Should we pay any attention to number three?
Mr. Esseks: I don't care whether you do, The application is for number two.
(Everyone talking)
Mr. Halpert: I'm totally bewildered, I've been before Planning Board's
before, but I know that I've been pinned down in terms of what the
submission is that is going forward to the Planning Board, And if you're
telling us no, ignore three, it's two that is the real plan, is the Board as
confused as I am? Thank you,
Mr. Ward: The alternative plan which is showing up as panel three was
requested by the Board to show the potential of an integrated plan. The
panel in the middle is the site plan that they have submitted which indicates
the expansion of parking to the east, and showing the existing conditions
that occur on the west, It's our intent to submit the plans as they are shown
here with a narrative that would go with them to the various agencies to
show that the site plan that's before us has some options that we're going
to be looking at and this happens to be one of the options.
Freddie Wachsburger: Do I understand rightly then that we're at the same
piace that we were last month and that what you are in fact submitting as a
site plan is not a comprehensive site plan which you've been asking for for a
year, but is the same piece of a site plan that was submitted last month and
that's what you're accepting now?
Mr, Ward: What we asked for was a coordinated plan, Cross Sound Ferry is
correct in stating that they cannot submit a plan which includes them
owning the State right-of-way, We didn't see how this plan was going to
operate and coordinate between an east and west side of the Rt, 25
extension to the water without some consideration of what could be done
with that and how that would integrate with an integrated site plan, And
that's the purpose ... ( TAPE MALFUNCTIONED)
Unknown..where do the citizens of the town inhabitants fit into this
expansion program? Nothing is mentioned as to how it will adversely effect
them. We have traffic problems as it is and nothing is spoken about.
Mr, Ward: We're trying to explain that the process of the SEQRA process, the
environmental review that we're trying to get involved with at this time is
the process which will review all of these questions and other questions that
anybody raises. That's the purpose.
.
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South old Town Planning Board
33
July 29, 1996
Unknown: Why isn't it reviewed now. I can't...
Mr. Ward: Because we have to start the process by asking for iead agency
status. We have to start the process.
Unknown: An agency?
Mr. Ward: The lead agency. Who is going to be the coordinating agency to
look at the whole process. And that's what the purpose of the resolution is
for tonight.
Unknown: Well what happens tomorrow night?
Mr. Ward: Tomorrow night is an informational meeting called by the Town
Board to talk not only with the Planning Board but other boards in the Town
that would have some impact on this application.
Unknown: But what about the impact on the environment, about the people
who live here?
Mr. Ward: i'm trying to say that that's the whole purpose of what we're
trying to get involved with right now.
Unknown: But no mention has been made of it this evening. No one has
brought it up. At the A&P you can't get out. Can you imagine if this passes
what's going to happen at that end, and all the way down the line? it's a big
problem as it is right now. The traffic is unbearabie. You can't get out of
your driveway here. Thank you.
Saul Mllden: I just wonder if you could please clarify what is the status of the
ownership of the property in question? What is the status of the Zoning
Board right now, the application on that. and if they don't own the property,
who is applying for the zoning?
Mr. Yakaboski: Just quickly Mr. Milden, and again, i'm going to try to tone
things down a iittle bit. It's just that sometimes we are familiar with the
process and we're familiar with the paperwork that's filed, so perhaps
sometimes sitting here we tend to think that perhaps the questions are
directed more to create an argument as opposed to seeking real
Information, but you have a sincere question, I'll answer it.
The premises that Mr. Essek's referred to as not being owned by Cross Sound
is the road bed of Rt. 25. Cross Sound owns all of the existing premises right
.
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South old Town Planning Board
34
July 29, 1996
now and has control of, that is the parcel all the way to the east. the 2.5
acre parcel which is the new addition if you will to the proposed site, is
owned by the Woronski family, which is the controlling interest of Cross
Sound Ferry As part of their application, they have stated that if approved
that parcel would be merged with and brought under the Cross Sound site.
Now, as far as the Zoning Board goes. What is before that Zoning Board is
the status of that most easterly 2.5 acre parcel which Mr. Raynor referred to
as the trust parcel. Everything else owned by Cross Sound is zoned M-2
which permits the ferry use. The easternmost parcel. the 2.5 acres, is zoned
R-80. It is residential. It is not ferry use zoned property. In order to
ultimately be able to use that parcel as part of its overall business operation
for parking or otherwise, it must obtain approval from the Zoning Board of
Appeals, which application is and has been pending for sometime, awaiting
the outcome of the SEQRA process before that Board can meet and hold
hearings and render its determination.
That's why we want to get going What we do here this evening starts the
process. It doesn't end the process. That's why I know, and I'm toning
down, and I'm not going to ask my colleague Mr. Esseks to speak again. He
is getting slightly hot under the collar because he knows that the arguments,
if you will, or the fights if you will, are yet to come, That it shouldn't be at
this stage. He knows that the hard work for his client applicant lies before
him, in going through the entire SEQRA process. And then getting to the
Board of Appeals and conducting those hearings and seeking a favorable
outcome at that point.
Unknown: Needless to say, if the zoning is not approved then this is all
irrelevant?
Mr. Yakaboski: That's right. Except that, and this is why, not to be facetious,
this is why we're saying to some of you, let's not be playing games here. If
they don't receive zoning approval. neither one, two or three is any good.
They're back to deleting that easternmost parcel and coming back or doing
something else to deal with their overall site problem.
Freddie Wachsburger: I hope the Board will understand our frustration in
this. As you know, we've put a great deal of time into analyzing and in fact
understanding a lot of this. At the moment it looks like a big pea soup in
front of us because all of our understanding was that the Town had asked
for, under the laws of the Town which is when a business appreciably
changes or increases the use of the property, they come in for a new
comprehensive site plan, and the request was for a comprehensive site pian
.
.
South old Town Planning Board
3S
July 29, 1996
which would include all of the properties that the ferry intended to use and
any future use they intended to make of it.
We still don't understand Why that hasn't happened after all this time. The
Cross Sound has certainly had the time. They have the information. They
presumably know what they're going to do. The know how much traffic
they are planning to bring in through Orient Point. They know whether all of
the traffic generated by two casinos and Six Flags Is going to come in
through Orient Point.
The question that they can't create a unified site plan because they don't
own Rt. 25, I mean that's a smoke screen. Why don't they do it without Rt.
257 Why don't we have a comprehensive site plan with all these pieces?
( CHANGE TAPE) ...after all this time, why have you not asked the court as
was your opportunity, to compel Cross Sound to come in with the
comprehensive site plan that you asked for last year? Why are you still
Willing to sit back and take whatever you get? I don't get it.
Mr. Ward: i'd like to ask at this time if somebody has not addressed the
Board would like to address the Board, you'd be welcome to do it. I think
we've heard from a number of you tonight. We understand and are
concerned about the process that we're getting into. Is there anybOdy that
hasn't spoken tonight that would like to speak?
Cynthia Beer: I live in Orient and I'm a member of SCSR. The last meeting
that we attended on this topic, we were addressed by Mr. Esseks at some
length as to our rights under the Constitution of the United States. I would
like to refer to that constitution by saying that we the people are here
tonight and over many days and many nights, because we have serious
concerns about what's happening here. We do not understand. We feel
that we are being given double-speak in lots of instances and I don't
understand at all why this whole process cannot be made clear to us so that
we understand what's going on and that we have some voice which is
represented by our own elected and serving officials.
Mr. Ward: Well, in continuance, tomorrow evening there is a meeting at 7:30
to continue discussion on it and please go to that because there will be
some other Boards that you can address some questions to.
Ms. Beer: it's a question of trust and it does not exist here and that's clear.
Mr. Ward: Anybody that hasn't addressed the Board tonight that would like
to address the Board?
.
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Southold Town Planning Board
36
July 29, 1996
Gordon Price: Of Orient My concern is that I'm really basic about this. i
don't know the three site plans from the lawyers, or whatever, and I know
there's a iot of legal stuff going on here that I'm not quite clear on. But
what I am clear on Is the fact that when I moved here in 1984, Cross Sound
Ferry had, say 69 parking spaces. Now Cross Sound Ferry, by need, has to
have 570 or more or whatever. This is the thing that bothers me because
it's changing the whole community. And as this lady over here says, we have
a constitutional right to be recognized as citizens. We're all up here. This
thing is going to change our community drastically. And we're allowing it to
happen.
Now if I were up there on the Board or maybe i should reserve this little
speech for the Town meeting tomorrow night, but what I see here, everyone
is saying well, let these guys come in and have their 570 parking spaces.
What's going to happen in 5 years says Ann Hopkins or 3 years? Maybe It's
gOing to be 1000. And then where are we? We're the victims of progress,
and gambling casinos and big bucks over there in Connecticut, and we're
sucking bee-bee's here because we're the funnel through which all this
garbage goes. What can we do about it to prevent the garbage from going
through? That's my question.
Janet Douglas: I live in Orient I've been there all my life. Yeah, there's
change going on. It's just not because of the casino. There are kids going to
colleges, there are boy scouts going to jamborees. And you have to look at
that When things happen they happen for a reason. I know I couldn't go to
cOllege if it wasn't for the ferry. There's no way I could drive around to
Rhode Island. And I just think that should be taken into consideration aiso.
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Chairman, as a member of the Board I would just like to say
a few words. Number one, it was this Board that realized the problem and
instigated the litigation that we're in right now. I don't think there is anyone
on this Board that doesn't want to answer to each and every question that
was brought up tonight, from each and everyone of you.
I've been here a long time, longer than anybody here, and I've been through
litigation. I've been there when the judge has said, that's enough, I'll sign
the plan. I think that for us to proceed, we have to get into the SEQRA
process. We want those answers. That's the way we're going to get them.
You'll have your chance to ask all these questions again, to get all that
information that you want to have and we want to have. I don't think
there's anybody sitting up here that doesn't want this information. I'd like
to see this get started. I sit here every week and I think It looks to me like It's
cheaper for Cross Sound to hire their attorney and come in every week then
to solve this problem that's going on and on and on and on and on.
.
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South old Town Planning Board
37
JUly 29, 1996
We want to solve the problem, that's why we're here. I'd like to make a
motion now to start the process.
Mr. Latham: I'll second the motion.
Mr. Orlowski: Mr. Chairman, be it resolved that the Southold Town Planning
Board start the coordination process on this Type 1 action.
Mr. Ward: Is there a second?
Mr. Latham: Second.
Mr. Ward: All in favor?
Ayes: Mr. Orlowski, Mr. Latham, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Cremers.
Mr. Ward: I abstain. Motion carried. The Board has decided to move ahead
with the process to check into the iead agency coordination, There will be a
meeting tomorrow evening that you've been invited to that will involve the
other agencies In the Town. This is the start of the process, it will be a
lengthy process, so we'll at least get started. We thank you all for coming.
There being no further business to come before the Board, the meeting
adjourned at approximately 8:15 pm.
Respectfully submitted,
Martha A. Jones
Secretary
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Richard G. Ward, Chairman
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PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
Richard G. Ward. Chairman
George Ritchie ulham. Jr.
Bennett Orlowski, Jr.
Mark S. McDonald
Kennelh L. Edwards
Telephone (516) 765.1938
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
Town Hall. 53095 Main Road
P.O. Box 1179
Southold. New York 11971
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Fax (516) 765. 3136
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:TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
( JUL 14 '95 10:56)
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South old Town Planning
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July 8,1996
Mr. Ward: Cross Sound Ferrv - This site plan is to add additional parking to a
previousiy approved ferry terminai on Rt. 25 in Orient. SCTM# 1000-15-10.1,
11.1,15.1 & 3.5. I notice there are a few folks here in the audience tonight.
We thank you for coming. I assume at this time that some of you may wish
to address the Board on this particular issue. Just before we do so, let me
just expiain where we're at in the process. The Zoning Board of Appeals
currentiy has before them an application from the Cross Sound Ferry to
utilize an existing residential parcel of property to the east of the ferry
terminal, specifically east of the snack bar area, for use as parking for their
facility. That particular application is in a separate Board. It's not in the
Planning Board's jurisdiction to make a decision on that as to whether or not
that will be allowed to be used. That will be a Zoning Board decision.
What's before us simultaneously, which is required and allowed by Town Law,
is the fact that there be a coordinated review between the Zoning Board of
Appeals and the Planning Board looking at one total environmental
coordinated review. Tonight what we have before us as the Planning Board
is the start of that process. We may tonight look to act upon starting the
process which would put Cross Sound Ferry, the Town, and all interested
parties in the environmental process. That's what would be accomplished.
What has happened, they have submitted a site plan to both the Zoning
Board of Appeals and to the Town Planning Board, to us, which would be
further (inaudible) looking at the overall project. Whether that site plan as
shown actually happens will be up to a number of things that could happen.
If the Zoning Board gives approval to their application to utilize that
residential property then what's being progressed here in a review, then we
would be iooking at that.
Again, an alternative would be if they don't get approvai from the Zoning
Board of Appeals, the project would be looked at, less that parcel, and that
will also be part of the environmental review. That is a brief overview, and at
this point we'd certainly be open to anyone that would like to address the
Board on the issue of Cross Sound. You realize that once we do reach the
point of an environmental process that there will be a public hearing. There
will be statements drafted by the applicant and we will all have extensive
input in that as well.
Thor Hansen: I'm the President of Southold Citizens for Safe Roads (SCSR)
which was formed almost a year ago, with one basic mission and that is to
really help the Town preserve the quality of life, in the environment, in the
safety on the roads that we believe the Town wants to have. Our
membership covers".we have over 300 people on our roster who have
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Southold Town Planning
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July 8, 1996
contributed money and time, or have offered to contribute such things,
showed an interest and concern, and they range from Mattituck all the way
to Orient. We aren't just Orient and East Marion,
Why are we particularly concerned right now? We're concerned about any
threat to the environment and the quality of life. Right now it seems to us
that the main threat posed to that is that of this inexorable growth of traffic
from the Cross Sound Ferry. It's essentially tripled since 1984, essentially
doubled since 1991. It was kind of linear at that point. We would feel that
since the Foxwoods Casino and particularly the high speed ferry of last
summer (inaudible) it to go up geometrically. And anybOdy that has to use
that North Road, get on or off of it. go out to the State Park, go catch the
ferry, can see what it's like going out there at night with that sea of lights
coming at you, depending on when it's happening, can say there is a big
growth in traffic. That's the first concern.
The second concern, we believe that the Town, particularly this last year but
over 10 years has allowed the ferry to flaunt a lot of the Town's own
regulations and laws, more than they would allow other businesses or
property owners, and to exceed its existing 1984 site plan in various ways.
One of which for example, Rt. 25 extended as it turns. According to the site
plan as we see it is supposed to be used only for traffic going onto the ferry.
They're supposed to egress on another route according to the site plan.
That's never been enforced. (Last sentence inaudible), That's one point.
Also, the so called snack bar lot was in that site plan for short term snack bar
parking. And we've all observed that cars are there for a couple or three
days. The Town has not enforced that. More recently the Town has not
objected to a lot of ongoing work. First. the dumping of dredge material on
that residential lot to which you referred and then the clearing of it and
setting it up to be a parking lot when it's still zoned residential as far as we
know, it is. You just said the ZBA has it in front of it. Those kinds of things
bring us concern because we don't believe that the Town has really been
forcing the ferry to live up to its own site plan and the Town's own laws.
Another concern is that we believe the Town is allowing the ferry to
piecemeal the actions they're doing. The ferry came in last summer to get
that west parking, 69 spaces, saying it was for overflow and for employee
parking, They got it and then very convenientiy started the high speed, at
which point the Town did too as you know, and sued for an Injunction to
stop it. Then the ferry comes in and has a residential lot to re-zone to take
care of the parking that the high speed ferry needs. It's piecemeal.
piecemeal and I would submit that your proposal to consider this recent site
plan by itself, I gather you're intending to add on to it from the site plan a
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Southold Town Planning
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July 8, 1996
year ago, consider those alone is not following what SEQRA would say. That
you're supposed to consider the whole site plan. The Town has not asked
it's attorney to ask for disclosure in those court proceedings et al what the
plans of the ferry are for the future. And I think it would be very hard to
conduct a SEQRA review, our group feels it would be tough, and be able to
dO it thoroughly when you don't have a clue what the ferry plans for three
years from now, five years from now, and we feel the Town should have
Instructed its outside attorney and its Inside attorney to ask for disclosure in
those areas.
One of the things also that concerns us is that we don't think that the Town
has looked. at this problem across the agencies of the Town. The Planning
Board looks at it, the Zoning Board as you said is looking at another aspect.
The Town Board should be looking at it. The Trustees as well. We feel that
all of those should have been together at some point, and if they were we
didn't know about it, it was never a public meeting, at which they're looking
at this overall. It's a problem for the Town and not for individual agencies
and i think the ferry has been allowed therefore to play one agency off
against the other. Those are the kinds of things that cause us concern.
In addition, my final point and then I would like to ask Freddie Wachsburger,
the Vice President of SCSR, and then Eric Bressler to say a word or two, but
my flnai point Is that we are disappointed that the Town, and I think the
Planning Board, both instructed their outside attorney to object to our
motion to intervene on behalf of the Town about three months ago. We
find that very very confusing that a group of concerned citizens who want to
heip the Town would not only be welcome but have been objected to. And
In the process of that objection the Town Attorney at the hearing the judge
was holding on our motion as I understand It, the attorney for the Town said
the Town knows that the ferry has exceeded its 1984 site plan. The Town
knows that the ferry has drug it's feet putting forth a comprehensive site
plan that the judge has asked for. And the Town knows that the ferry has
exceeded work it should be doing out at that point, but the Town has no
objection. That as I understand is what he said. That disturbs us, that
concerns us. Those are the points that I'd like to make and I'd like to ask
Freddie to come to the microphone. (CHANGE TAPE)
Freddie Wachsburger: I'm Vice President of SCSR. I had a prepared
statement so I apologize for whatever repetitions I have In here, repeating
what Thor has said, but it's probably no bad thing. I'd also like to give this to
you after the meeting so that It would be entered into the record.
There's probably no more critical problem facing Southold Town than the
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South old Town Planning
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Juiy 8, 1996
potential explosion of ferry traffic. The actions proposed by Town
government to respond appear once again to be willfully and dangerously
inadequate. But first importance is the fact that the Planning Board, as far
as we know, has not instructed it's attorney to ask the court for full
disclosure by Cross Sound Ferry of it's short term and long term plans. As
there is at present no other terminal to accommodate the projected
ridership to two or more casinos and to an Amtrak link to Boston from New
London. That information is critical for Town government to begin long
terms plans and to determine how much ferry traffic the Orient Point
terminal and the Town roads can reasonably be expected to absorb. And
what steps can be taken to enforce limits. Until the Board exercises it's right
to demand that information it is Willfully acting In the dark.
Second, the criticai nature of this issue demands that the Town Initiate a
unified investigation with all concerned State, County and Town agencies to
study the effect of the entire undertaking on the ecology of Orient Point and
the coast. the effect of road runoff and non-point source pollution and the
effect on the environment and the quality of life for Southold residents. Not
only to arrive at reasonable limits for Orient. but also to determine alternate
routes and terminal sites. This Issue should be addressed regionally and with
representation of ail interested parties.
The action proposed by the Planning Board of accepting a partial submission
for review means exactly that an opposition to that approach the agencies
involved will be asked to respond to incomplete data and the SEQRA could
be severely compromised.
Third, Southold Town government apparently lacks the will to enforce it's
zoning legislation. The stance presently taken by the Planning Board is that
there are only two options. Accept an incomplete plan in order to move the
SEQRA forward or let Cross Sound go on refusing to produce a
comprehensive plan while continuing to operate in non-conformance and to
park cars on residential property without penalty
The Town stance pretends that It has neither the right nor the responsibility
to simply enforce it's laws. To pursue its right in the courts to keep Cross
Sound from continuing to operate without presentation of a comprehensive
plan and for commercial use of residential property. Ultimately, the Town
appears in its denial of its ability to do anything almost Willfully determined
to disregard the effects of CSS operations on the natural environment and
on our quality of life, and to put no obstacle on Cross Sound Ferry's
expansion.
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Southold Town Planning
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July 8, 1996
Another instance in which the Town hides behind a lack of real data is in the
vague notion the ferry traffic is "good for business". Certainly some
businesses, roadside restaurants, farm stands, gas stations and vineyards
may benefit to some extent from transient traffic. No serious study has
been made by Town government however, of the potential long term effect
of an explosion of traffic on overnight and long stay tourism or on the
second home market which patronizes the above businesses but aiso small
businesses, banks, professionals, realtors, contractors and the service
industries in which couid be fatally compromised by the potential
degradation of the quality of life in this Town.
In short, despite plenty of news reports during the course of the last year,
about the projected growth of casino and commuter traffic, and despite the
court case initiated by the Town last year, the Town has in fact taken no
steps to acquire necessary information, to develop short and long term
plans, to explore corroboration with other agencies to define limits and
alternatives or to enforce its own reguiations. We urge the Planning Board
to refuse to accept a plan which is neither complete or comprehensive, to
enforce Town regulations against non-conforming uses, to instruct it's
attorney to ask the court for full disclosure from Cross Sound and to remove
its objections to SCSR entering the case. Concerned Southold citizens should
have as much right to representation as a privately owned Connecticut
company.
Eric Bressler: Of Wickham, Wickham and Bressler, P.C. of Mattituck (inaudible)
counsel for Southold Citizens for Safe Roads. Gentlemen, tonight you have a
unique opportunity as well as responsibility with respect to this particular
project. You have heard most eloquently what has happened with respect
to this particular project over time. Cross Sound Ferry has piecemealed its
activities down there. They have nibbled, they have clawed, they have taken
what they could take, when they could take it, and they have basically run
circles around the Town agencies.
The dictates of the Planning Board and the Zoning Board of Appeals have
been ignored year in and year out. We know that. you know that. we've all
seen the history. They stand before you tonight asking you to go forward
with the SEQRA review of what is patently an incomplete site plan. It is time
that this Board say enough to this. You stop them where they stand and you
make them complete for the first time, a complete and comprehensive site
plan of the entire operation at out Orient Point. Nothing short of that is
going to give this Board and the other agencies that have to consider this
project the full scope of what's going on down there and the full
opportunity for review.
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South old Town Planning
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July 8, 1996
We believe that the mere stapling of a prior approved site plan together with
this would be site plan does not constitute the integrated single site plan
that is required out at Orient Point, We believe that this Board got hood-
winked if you will on the first site plan, We don't think it got looked at
thoroughly for a variety of reasons and its out there, And we think that
ought to be integrated with what's being proposed now, so you don't get
yo-yo'd back and forth and piecemealed yet again, There is no way short of
integrating this into one site plan that you can prevent that. Not
withstanding what you might hear from the representatives of Cross Sound
Ferry, it can't be done any other way, And it is this Board's responsibility to
take this project by the throat if you will and ma~e these people comply with
the laws of the Town, No one is saying here tonight that Cross Sound Ferry
should be choked to death and that they shouldn't have an opportunity to
do business,
ThiS group has never taken that position and they are not taking that
position with the Board tonight. What they are saying is that the activities
have to be looked at in an integrated responsible manner and appropriate
and reasonable limits and requirements have to be placed on this project so
that the concerns of the citizens of this Town, as well as the Cross Sound
Ferry, can be accommodated,
And there's only one way to do that and that is to do an Integrated site plan,
If you don't do this you are going to perpetuate the piecemeal approach and
you're going to find yourselves down the road hopefully wishing that you
had done this, Maybe you won't, maybe it doesn't matter, but I don't
believe that, I think this Board is more responsive, And i'm hopeful that this
Board will be more responsive to the needs of the Town and its citizens, I
think what you've got to do is go back and make these people give you an
integrated site plan and then deal with it on that basis,
I don't think there's any need on my part to get into what's going on in
court, that's a separate proceeding, it's been addressed, What you want to
do on that I think has got to be examined fairly closely, But that's not
before the Board tonight, What's before the Board tonight Is something you
have direct control over and you can tell these people to come back with a
complete site plan, Now, I've been told that the Board has a concern that
it's taken a long time to get what you've gotten out of Cross Sound Ferry,
That's undoubtedly true, But if you give up now and say we're going to
accept piecemeal or only a partial site plan, we're all going to regret it down
the road, You have tools available to you to make these people comply with
the same laws that these other people who came up here on those earlier
cases had to comply with, Cross Sound Ferry should do no less, They're
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South old Town Planning
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July 8. 1996
down there doing things and we all know what they're doing. Clearing the
lot and doing the things that they shouldn't be doing. You people have the
power. Make them come back to you with a complete site plan. We urge
you to require them to do that.
Harold Watson: I'm also with Southold Citizens for Safe Roads, a member.
I'm also an Orient Point resident. I'm sure the Board knows who I am in trying
to keep on top of this matter. I have been doing my reading on SEQRA this
week. I have all the latest regulations. And I've heard from the Town again
and again and again that you can't do anything about Cross Sound Ferry.
They're bigger than we are and everything else.
There's a couple of things that I read in here that I think are really critical
right at a time (inaudible!. One of them is scoping. This comes from the
Dept. of State. They believe strongly that Southold Town is shirking its duties
because they're allowing one, segmentation to happen out at Cross Sound
Ferry. Two, that they're not doing proper scoping and proper input from all
the sources that are available to them and they admit. as far as they tell me,
that they believe that you're almost breaking the rules by not going to the
Dept. of State and finding out what's happening in this coastal zone.
It's a coastal hazard area, it's a coastal erosion area. The coastal hazard area
goes all the way up to Rt. 25 covering every bit of Cross Sound property.
The coastal hazard area goes in 100 feet further than you have indicated on
your maps right now, where they have been doing fill which is not
considered to be upland, its considered to be wetland. These are tidal
wetlands no matter what it looks like now, three months ago it was
wetlands.
It also asks that common issues that are raised during scoping and
determined to be not relevant or environmentally significant or that had
been adequately addressed in all prior environmental reviews must be
included in that scope. I looked at the 1984 Environmental impact
Statement which is the only legal document right now (inaudible) that you
have to control Cross Sound Ferry with and you're not even enforcing a
1984 document.
There are things in here that were never enforced and my checking on it is
that this is still a perfectly valid legal document. You'd have every right to go
down there and say to them, you either live by this document or you come
in for a supplemental SEQRA review including. ..and you can ask them for it if
you find out that they haven't held to what they agreed to do in this.
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South old Town Planning
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July 8, 1996
But more importantly, really specifically to the Planning Board is the Planning
Board's responsibilities. And one of the things that I read in here, and you'll
have to excuse me because I have a lot of different notes here, but one of
the things that I find is that it is not your responsibiiity just to take whClt
Cross Sound Ferry gives you and pass on it. When they give yc'.; !1
Environmental impact Statement which includes a site plan, it is your job to
make sure it is accurate and complete to the best of your knowledge. It Is
also your responsibiiity as lead agency to go to every other agency that has
responsibilities in this matter.
That includes the Dept. of State, that includes the Federal government
(Inaudible), that includes all coastal assessment, all visual assessment, all of
those things should be done and included prior We should have already
seen those forms. Where is the visual assessment on this site down here
that they're trying to do. It says it in every SEQRA (inaudible) that i read and
every environmentai impact statement in draft, it says if this is a coastal
place stop right here and call the Dept. of State and answer this question.
I've been handed conversations from the Dept. of State and they want you
to ask them those questions. They feel that you're remiss in not asking
those questions. But even more importantly, reading about SEQRA and
these are all the latest re-writes that came in as of January 1, 1996, read
about the latest information in SEQRA, an agency may find it helpful to seek
the advice and assistance of other agencies, groups and persons on SEQRA
matters including the following. Then it goes into advice on preparation and
review of the EIS, all of that before we get to SEQRA.
Recommendations on the significance or non-significance of actions.
Preparation and reviews of EIS's and recommendations on the scope
adequacy and content of EIS's. I assume what you're saying to us tonight is
that you're willing to accept this. That you essentially are saying that we're
willing to accept the draft EIS as they've presented it. And as I'm reading
the State regulations they're saying that you shouldn't be. There are things
in there that seem obvious to me that should be called on. You shouid be
saying Cross Sound Ferry, we don't believe you can do this. And you should
turn It back to them and say, come back to us based on the regulations. Let
them pay to do the research. Tell them it's their job. They have to go figure
out what they can do if it is 100 feet.
The other thing is, and I think this is something that I didn't really understand
until recently, in the (inaudible) prior to SEQRA there is such a thing as a
Generic Environmental Impact Statement. Now I have not seen that ever
with Cross Sound Ferry, but a GElS allows the discussion in general terms of
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Southold Town Planning
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July 8, 1996
constraint and consequences of any narrowing of future options. Then they
present and analyze in generai terms the few hypothetical scenarios that
could and are likely to occur. A GElS may be used to assess the
environmental impacts of, and I'll skip down, the sequence of actions
contemplated by a single agency or individual or several actions having
generic or common impacts or for an entire program or plan had a wide
application or restricting the range of future alternative poiicies, projects,
inciuding new or significant changes to existing iand use plans, deveiopment
plans, zoning regulations or agency comprehensive resource management
plans.
GElS and their findings should set forth specific conditions or criteria under
which future actions will be undertaken or approved, including requirements
for any subsequent SEQRA compliance. This may include threshoids and
criteria for supplemental EIS's to reflect specific significant impacts such as
site specific impacts that were not adequately addressed or analyzed in the
GElS earlier.
And It further states later that when those specific conditions in that GElS
have been broken or superseded that you as a Planning Board then as the
lead agency have absolute right to bring Cross Sound Ferry in and say to
them you're doing 6 million passengers a year, you said you were only going
to do a million. Cut it out. And you have a legal basis then at that point at
which to go to the State. And the State said to me that they would be
happy to support you In your seeking Cross Sound Ferry's compliance on
this. But they need you to start that process. If you say to the Dept. of
State, we're getting screwed by Cross Sound Ferry, the Dept. of State has
told rne that they would be happy to support you in making these laws
enforceable. Thank you.
Robert Hallcias: My name is Dr. Robert Hallcias. I represent the Stars Beach-
East Marion Homeowners Association. I'm appalled at what I've heard
tonight. Who is holding the destiny of Southold in their hands? Cross Sound
Ferry or the Planning Board and our Town fathers? I'm disgusted with what's
happening here. We have a problem in our area where we can't even get
out onto the Main Rd. I can't ride the bicycle route with my grandson
because it's used as a four lane highway at times. I think the DOT must have
given us a story here by creating a bike path. It's a bike route. And from
what I understand it's a four lane highway. If that's what DOT is putting out
there for us, we don't appreciate It. And I hope you'll act diligently and take
the destiny of our town into your hands and not Cross Sound. Thank you.
One other thing, the people in East Marion and Orient might have to take
things Into their own hands and you figure out what I'm talking about.
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JUly 8,1996
Unknown: I became interested in the last few weeks. I've lived in Southold
Town for sixty years. My problem was I didn't see enough In newspapers, I
didn't hear enough in the town as to what the Issues were here. What are
the probiems? Like everything else in life there are precedents. i think if we
took a look we'd find other places in the United States with the same
problem we have. I think there are probably traffic patterns that are very
well known. How many cars can be handled on a two lane road like bicycle
paths. I think all those things are available to us.
One of the things I'd ask if we had someone here from the press is there's
not enough communication. There's not enough stuff going out to the
people. There's only 300 people in this organization. i joined it. I didn't
before but I did now. I think you need more communication with the town.
I think you have probabiy the most critical issue in my sixty years facing us,
and I think you need to tell people what the ground rules are. Is this a thing
that's good for business or is it bad for property values? Is it bad for the
residential guy? There's just not enough coming out and I'm disappointed in
that. And I'm disappointed in myself for not coming before. Thank you
Cynthia Beer: I'm a member of Southold Citizens for Safe Roads. I want to
paint a little picture for you and then I want you to augment that by
projected ridership of (inaudible) passengers. I live directly across Main Road
in Orient from Latham's Farm Stand. And let's say that I'm coming east from
Greenport and I have stopped in the eastbound lane to try to make a left
turn into my driveway. And I'm sitting there for maybe ten to fifteen
minutes while in the westbound lane a string of 100 cars comes off the
ferry
At the same time, at what is called the bike route or the lane to the right of
my lane, cars are speeding past me sometimes at 80 miles an hour while cars
are trying to pull out of the entrances and exits for the farm stand. It is a
disaster waiting to happen. Based on what the traffic is now, it's so
frightening to begin with that you can't even imagine what it would be like
with more and more and more and more traffic on that road.
Now I gather that part of the job of the various boards is - and I'm out here
only 30 years so I'm a relative newcomer - but I gather that part of the
responsibility of public boards is to have some jurisdiction over safeguarding
to the best extent the lives of the individuals who reside in this town. I beg
you to consider this picture and the projected picture of a six million
passenger ridership down the line. Thank you.
Dave Gillispie: My wife and I own property on the north road and we've been
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South old Town Planning
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Juiy 8, 1996
there 12 years, I think. And for the first ten years It was always a joke, we
knew when the six o'ciock boat got in but now it's difficult In the summer to
get out of the driveway, and when I'm turning into the driveway, as just
explained, I have people passing on my right at some horrible speeds about
a foot away from my car.
I don't have a statement, i have a question. We put zoning into place in this
town and I guess my question really is why should we make an exception for
a company that's not based in this town that really doesn't bring anything to
this town. They're going too fast to stop for gasoline or farm stands. Most
of its customers are not from Southold Town. Thank you.
Jack Malady: I live in Southbld. I heard reference this evening that the Town
of Southold has allowed this to happen, the Town of South old has allowed
that to happen. Gentlemen, this is the Town of Southold. Listen to them.
They are telling you something. You are not there to impose your will on
them, you are there I understand to listen to the Town and to guide counsel
and in your infinite wisdom say you're right or you're wrong. But if the
decision is made where the Board is wrong - 150% wrong - five years from
now it's determined but that decision was made because the Town said this
is what we want. Feel at least a little something in your own soul that you
thought it was wrong but you did what the people wanted, right or wrong.
If they are dead wrong, tell them, they'll listen. They'll step back and say,
you know, you're right. We were wrong. So we Change our mind and we do
what you recommended.
But don't just sit here and listen to (inaudible) and say fine, the meeting's
over, now we'll do what we want. I'm not saying you would do that. But all
I'm saying is listen to the town. Thank you.
Bob Hicks: I'm a member of the Lands End Property Owners Association.
Lands End Road is almost on top of the ferry. I'm a resident in that area for
11 years and I agree that it's totally impacting the town. But however, the
impact adjacent and around the ferry is something that's really terrible to
behold. We came out there, like many of us, as a retirement couple. We
bought the home. A beautiful area. The ferry was there but it's presence
was controlled.
Within the last two years, as everyone has stated, it is impossible to traverse
your roads when the traffic is at peak. They are parking on Rt. 25 on both
sides all the way down, for those of you who know where the Orient By the
Sea Restaurant is, and some to Three Waters Lane. Cars are being left there
for I guess two or three days. Not all of them, but some of them. In our
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July 8, 1996
road itself parking had gone ail the way in to the traffic circie. We have
succeeded in getting some attention to that by posting parking regulations.
And they have also posted at the end of our road, no parking within the
roadside. In other words you could not (CHANGE TAPE - FIRST FEW
MINUTES, TAPE MALFUNCTIONED)
Unknown: I'm a totaily disinterested bystander in this discussion, I suppose
up to a point. Although I haven't lived in Southold for thinty years, I did
spend a good deal of my chiidhood in the house which my husband and I
now own. We are Southoid taxpayers. And my childhood was more than
half a century ago. And I came to this meeting too out of curiosity to hear
what the issues were and what the concerns are. I am disinterested and I
hope that everyone in the Town government In Southold is equaily
disinterested on this issue. And I have also not a statement but a question.
And my question is coming from my concern about disinterest and what
appears to be the extraordinary influence exercised by the Cross Sound Ferry
Company in this smail and tranqUil and happy and weil run town. And my
question is whether any member of the Town government or even the
Planning Board or the Zoning Board has a monetary or professional
connection to the Cross Sound Ferry Company, and if so I'd like to ask
whether that interest could be deciared publicly in a journai of record or
several journals of record, since mention was made earlier of the possiblilty
of press coverage for this hearing,
And I'd like further to ask that anyone with a connection both to the Town
government and the Cross Sound Ferry Company do what is considered
professional practice in any other local government hearing which is to
deciare that interest and to recuse himself or herself from any further
deliberations about the project. Thank you.
Caroline Wright: Mattituck, I wasn't going to say anything either. I don't
know where ail of you iive, Some of you may i1ve out in Orient, probably
SOme of you don't. I doesn't matter where you live in this town, it wiil affect
you. As everybody goes rumbling by, it's actuaily easier to go through the
mess and the traffic circles and the hassles to go to Riverhead. Now isn't
that a strange chain of affairs (inaudible),
And then we have the Governor of Connecticut with his lovely wife, they're
very nice people I'm sure, saying come on up. I don't know if you've seen
the commercials. The benefit is going there, not to us. And the traffic and
the other hassles for lack of political wiil, God help us I hope it's not lack of
integrity anywhere, but these things are going to kiil our other businesses,
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South old Town Planning
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JUly 8, 1996
our other tourisms. And if this Board and the Zoning Board of Appeals and
the Town Board and the Town Attorneys don't recognize this then I'm sorry,
you're deaf, dumb and biind. Thank you.
Deb Winsor: I live in Orient. I'm not a member of any group but I do live on
the Main Road. Three years ago I bought my house up there and in those
three years I've worked really hard to play by the rules and get the permits
that I need and I think in the last three years it feels that I've worked a lot
harder to play by the rules and be a law abiding citizen and neighbor than
the Cross Sound Ferry has. I guess that's alii have to say.
Tom Angel: I live on Orient Point, Orient by the Sea. I don't quite understand
when they put a bike route on a road and you have all these cars parked on
the right forcing these people onto the Main Road, which is normally a bike
route.
Mr. Ward: Anyone else like to address the Board this evening?
William Esseks: I'm the attorney for Cross Sound. I've been attending public
meetings for 37 years on behalf of clients. Sometimes In this room and
sometimes in other rooms on the east end. And there are three things that
are obvious to me that have come out of tonight's meeting. One is that the
people in the room only want to use Cross Sound Ferry when it's convenient
for them. And i understand that.
Two, and logically so, no one here understands the SEQRA process, with the
exception of the Board. And three, no one has read the constitution. It's
very interesting when someone said Southold is for Southolders and the
foreigners should stay away. You should go and read the constitution and
you should read the federalist papers. (Everyone talking) I'm not being
patronizing, you did it to yourselves. Let's back up a little bit and we'll go
back to iast summer.
The Town Juris counsel. with the court, ex parte, tried to shut down the
Cross Sound Ferry. In an hour and a halves notice. The judge said come
back the next day and we spent the day arguing. And i argued that the
State of New York and the Town of Southold had no constitutional ability to
shut down an interstate commerce carrier. And that is also correct. And the
judge has had the argument submitted to him over and over again, shut
them down. And over and over again the attorneys for Cross Sound Ferry
have said judge, most respectfully, you don't have jurisdiction to shut down
interstate commerce carrier. And the judge has not shut down Cross Sound
Ferry, i submit, because he doesn't have the ability to do that.
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Southold Town Planning
24
July 8, 1996
And if you read the constitution, the constitution specifically deals with ferry
boats and it says we will not allow parochiai groups in one state as opposed
to another to say, we're going to shut down ferries, because they didn't
have airpianes, they didn't have cars, they didn't have trucks, they didn't
have railroads in the 1770's and 1780's when they were doing the
constitution has specifically allowed ferry boats to operate.
Now, not withstanding the judge's unwillingness to shut down the ferry, the
judge said to me, Mr. Esseks, you're a good citizen, your client is a good
citizen, make an application to the Town of Southold to try to solve the
perceived problem of parking. Not the perceived problem of traffic, but of
parking. And we are doing that. We submitted a site plan application last
fall. It was rejected. We re-submitted it. We were back before the judge.
The Town again asked the judge to shut us down. Again the judge said he
deciined to do that. And we have submitted this.
Now, let's deal with why we're here. We're not here asking you to do
anything other than to do your duty under the Town law to process our
application. And the point at which you have arrived is to start the SEQRA
process, because you have to go through the SEQRA process before you can
say yes or no. I'm not agreeing, and our obligation says we don't agree that
you have jurisdiction to shut us down. Not withstanding that withholding of
consent to jurisdiction, we are doing what the judge suggested and what
Cross Sound has told me to do. Hired experts, prepare a site plan for
submitting an application.
We're now at the point where you look at our application and you decide
whether it's sufficient for the purpose of coordinated review for iead agency
determination. You know that, I know that. The people that toid me to shut
up and sit down and tell me I shouldn't be talking iike I was in court don't
know that and Why should they? Why should a normal person know
anything about the SEQRA process?
But the SEQRA process is that now you start a coordinated review with all the
agencies that are involved and one of you will decide who is going to be the
lead agency. And if you can't agree amongst yourselves the DEC
commissioner will decide. And then sometime during all this you will
probably declare yourself lead agency which is a normal event. You will then
at some point have a scoping session. The scoping session comes after lead
agency determination, not before.
And after you have your scoping session and we all scream and shout about
what's to be scoped, we will prepare an environmental impact statement.
.
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Southold Town Planning
2S
Juiy 8, 1996
And we'll have multi-sections to it and we'll submit it to you and eventually
you'll say it's sufficient for review. And eventually you'll have a hearing on it.
And at that hearing, everybody who is here today can come in and repeat
the fact that they don't want Cross Sound Ferry, except when they want to
ride on it.
And then you will eventually decide that you've heard enough information
and you'll make a decision on our site plan application. I'm not doing that to
lecture you but from the comments made by the people in the public, they
obviously and logically didn't understand what the process is. You're not
being asked to approve anything tonight other than to tell the other
agencies that we exist, that we have an application and who wants to be
. lead agency.
Now, let's talk about roads. Rt. 25 goes from somewhere in Brooklyn, to
Orient. And if you don't get off it, you go onto our boats. If you want to
come back into the state, that's where you would come in. It happens to be
true that any citizen of the State of New York and I submit all citizens of the
United States, can drive up and down Rt. 25 untii they're exhausted. Until
their car wears out, until they can't see straight. Luckily, most people don't
do that, but they have the right to do that. And they have the right to
come out to Orient, to look at Orient, to go swimming there, to go fishing
there, to go on our boat or not go on our boat.
No one has a right to park in your yard. No one has a right in Aquebogue,
where I live, they make it impossible to get out on the Montauk Hwy. to get
out here to Orient or to go to Mattituck or Jamesport or Southold to visit
you, including your houses, we all have the same problems. I'm concerned
with the statement that zoning controls what happens here. It's not true.
zoning does not controi what happens to interstate commerce carriers.
Zoning cannot tell JFK that they can't have more land, more runways.
Zoning can't tell the Penn State Railroad that it can't make itself larger or
smaller. Maybe that's the way it shouldn't be but when they designed the
constitution they designed it so that people in Orient can't teil people from
Connecticut that they can't drive through Orient. Maybe that's a lousy rule,
but that's the rule that exists. Now, let's talk about parking.
When I went before the judge last summer, the Town Attorney said there
isn't enough parking. We have two and a half acres of property available for
parking. You would rather have us not have enough parking as opposed to
parking in the area that we have. You think about that for a while and you'll
see that ail that shows is that you just don't want the ferry And I
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South old Town Planning
26
July 8, 1996
understand that. Just don't be hypocritical and say we don't have enough
parking. Of course we have enough parking. We have a surplus of parking
that you're trying to pressure the Town to say we don't have enough
parking, and I understand that.
Now, what I'm asking the Town Planning Board to do tonight is something
that was suggested by the court, as a suggestion. We're following up on it.
We're submitting maps and plans and meeting with the court and meeting
with counsel and meeting with you. We think we're proceeding at an
absolutely correct and proper and appropriate way and it wasn't our idea to
make an application. The court suggested we make an application and we're
doing it. We're doing it in good faith and we're now ready to have you
move to the next step. And at the appropriate time the peopiewill say,
regardless of what we do, they don't want it. And i understand that and I
expect that, but that's why they have boards and that's why they have
courts. So I respectfully request that you proceed with your SEQRA process,
start the coordinated review and we'll spend the summer and the fall and
the winter meeting here and having a good time. Thank you very much.
Walter Smith: Having been involved in coastal management for almost 30
years I think I know a little something about SEQRA. having trained students
that way. But I'd just iike to bring one thing up. It's the purpose of the
board aiso to protect the health of the people in the area. And in the latest
edition of the Journal of the Institute of Biology, we have a tremendous
article on the problems of pollution caused by automobiles.
Now, it's not only respiratory that's causing these problems it's cardiac. We
find a new material of (inaudible) in bringing the material into the circulatory
system and we are experiencing a large number of heart attacks. In UK they
had 10,000 deaths last year due to this, Now it's the purpose of the board
to protect the health of this community.
Now I just did a little bit of arithmetic just for the fun of it and it would just
take the line between Riverhead and Southold. It takes about 2 gallons of
gasoline to go from there to Orient and back again, right? So a gallon of
gasoline weighs about 8 Ibs. So that means we are using 16,000 ibs. of
material, burning it, every time cars go back and forth. A thousand cars,
which is not a large number. So what I did I calculated out if we had 200
operating days on the ferry and we multiply that out, being poured into the
Town of Southoid, into its water and atmosphere on the basis of 1,000 cars,
is 3,200,000 Ibs. of pOllutants and other materials, which is a lot of material.
Now we don't know what the toxicity of a lot of these things are. Particuiar
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SouthOld Town Planning
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July 8. 1996
is fairly new. We don't know how the nitrogen oxide (inaudible) alone. We
only have Ideas. And what we're doing is playing Russian Roulette with the
children and the people of this area, if we allow the ferry to increase in size.
No one wants the ferry to stop, but we want the ferry to be responsible
citizens and keep the load down. Thank you.
Eric Bressler Mr. Chairman, I would like to sum up for this group if I may for
2 or 3 minutes. First of all I'd like to thank Mr. Esseks very much for the
lecture on constitution and public utilities law. Always nice to learn
something, or did we? Let's examine what's been said. Mr. Esseks has told
us that as a matter of constitutional law no one has a right to tell his client
what to do. Well. that's plain and simple just not so. The cases make it clear
that local boards have regulatory authority in conformance with the
guidelines set thereby by the courts. There seems to be no doubt about
that.
He has further told us that the court in ruling upon the suit that was brought
by the Town decided on jurisdictional grounds that it was not to grant the
relief sought. That's just simply not true. And no further application has
been made to the court for injunctive relief after the initial presentation. So
I think those couple of facts just need to be set straight.
Third. I think that Mr. Esseks was right in at least one thing that he said and
that was that you really should focus on the issue, and we didn't hear a
whole lot from him on that, and that was whether or not this is sufficient to
go forward for SEQRA. That is why we're here, and it isn't. And that's our
position. It is not sufficient to go forward for SEQRA. They have not
presented a unified site pian that would enable you to address all the
concerns.
Finally, and most interestingly we are told by Mr. Esseks, and correctly so
that we're here tonight, but guess why. We're not submitting to your
jurisdiction. We're here because the judge told us to do it but we don't
have to be here and we don't concede that you have jurisdiction. Now just
so all the iay people in this room who seemingly have no understanding of
the SEQRA process, I'm presuming they have no understanding of what that
means as well. What that means is that what he's told you tonight is that
he's willing to go through the motions but if he doesn't like the outcome,
guess what, not only is he going to argue about it but he's going to tell this
board that it had no jurisdiction. it didn't have the power in the first
instance to require him to do anything. So not only could he not like the
results, he could say that this board had no authority whatsoever to render
those results. Now I'm not saying that that's not a good lawyerly argument
.
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Southold Town Planning
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July 8,1996
but let's not come here and not understand what's really going on. They
have not submitted to the jurisdiction of this board. Not one iota. And they
have reserved everything. And they are now asking this board to go forward
and declare this thing ready for SEQRA. It is not ready for SEQRA. This board
must make these people present a unified site plan that can be reviewed
knowing full well that down the road if the results are not liked they're not
oniy going to iitigate with you over the substance, they're going to litigate
over your right to regulate them. I think the cases are clear. You do have a
right to reguiate them. I don't think anybody here should be under the
misapprehension that Cross Sound Ferry is here because they want to be
here or that they're nice foiks. They're going through the motions. But. if
they go through the motions and they come up with something that
everybody here can live with, then I think we're all going to be in favor of it.
But let's not kid each other about why they're here and what they're
intending to do. We don't think that the board has enough before it to go
forward, as Mr. Esseks says to argue through the summer and argue over the
fail. only later to find out that you didn't have enough before you and have
to start all over again which is going to be the inevitabie result. So, based
upon that we urge the board to require Cross Sound Ferry to come back
before them with a full complete and responsible plan. Thank you.
Howard Meinke: I live in Cutchogue. i think we just want to get our priorities
in order. I think it's safe to say that If Brown and Ferris Industries, they're a
national (inaudible) company, wanted to put a toxic waste dump in Orient.
the Board and the Town Board and all the other boards would work like hell
to not let it happen. Now, this ferry expansion is by an out of state firm. It's
for the benefit of other citizens somewhere, not our citizens. It's going to
degrade our infrastructure. It's going to degrade our environment. It's
going to degrade our quality of life. This ferry expansion is actually a toxic
waste dump. In fact it's a stealth waste dump because people don't
recognize it.
So, support your citizens and stop the damn thing. It's not an argument to
shut down the ferry, it's an argument to restrict it. Hold it where it is. Mr.
Esseks talked a lot. I don't know the pluses and minuses of his argument but
when we were in the Viet Nam war a hell of a lot of people protested it and
it turns out the bulk of those people were right In my view. I think this is our
Viet Nam here. We want to stand firm, we don't want the expanded Cross
Sound Ferry Now iet's get our ducks in a row and do what we have to do
and don't get sweet talked by these people who are here to make a fee but
not to do good for the Town of 50uthold. Thank you.
William Esseks: Eric gets two shots, I should get two shots. I still think that
.
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Southold Town Planning
29
July 8, 1996
the members of the public don't understand why we're here. The process is
that the next step is coordinated review. That's what the next step is. If the
Board doesn't want to do that then the judge's admonition to me to make
an application, I can report back to the judge that I made an application and
the Board doesn't want to go ahead. That's between you and your
consciences and the judge, but I'm doing what he asked me to do. You've
been doing what the judge asked you to do up until this evening. The
popuiace comes in and says stop the system, we want to get off. We don't
trust the system to work. I can't believe that the people who oppose the
ferry want to stop the system from working. And if they do and if it's being
done on a vote basis, you'li respond one way and if you want the SEQRA
system to work in compliance with the judge'S admonition, you'li do it
another way.
But I don't think that people understand what you're doing and why you're
doing it and I think you ought to aliow the system to work and we'li do it and
we'll fight about it and then we'li end up in court one way or the other. But
to say we're going to stop it tonight. it's the first time I've ever heard of the
populace saying don't let the SEQRA system work. The SEQRA is designed
like a library or encyclopedia to bring all diverse thoughts before the lead
agency. I've never heard of the peopie saying we hate it so much, we don't
want to hear about it. But this group says to you stop it. Now, you can stop
it if you want to but it's going to go right back on track. All you're doing is
deiaying the inevitabie of this application being processed. You can't hang
the guy before you have the trial. They want to do the hanging first and
have the triai second. Let's do the trial first. Thank you very much. (CHANGE
TAPE)
Haroid Watson: I'm not oniy interested in the future of Southold, I interested
in the past of Southold. From history on Southold, in the 1840's we ran into
someone who came into the town in the same way the Cross Sound Ferry is
and it was called the Long Island Railroad. The original Long Island Raliroad
was a wood burning, fire cinder growing train that came in here. And at the
time Southoid was a very very strict "nothing happens on Sunday" kind of
place. And the train kept coming in and the citizens of Southold said stop it.
you're screwing up our neighborhood. You're burning down our fields.
You're burning up our barns.
And nothing happened. And eventually the citizens of Southold went out
and started burning the tracks and they kept burning the tracks until Long
Island Railroad came in and said what can we do to make you happy? And
eventualiy Long Island Railroad people came in and sat down and said, we
won't have trains on Sunday, we'li give you better train stations, we'll blow
.
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Southold Town Planning
30
Juiy 8, 1996
the whistle at every intersection. little things that we accept now as
common and acceptable things were fought by the citizens that went out
after a private business. And that's what we need to continue to do. That's
the process that we're asking to go forward with SEQRA. We're not asking
for Cross Sound Ferry to be shut down, like we've never said for Long Island
Railroad to leave us. We've said be appropriate to our community. And I
think that that's something that I really, truly want Mr. Esseks and the Board
to hear.
Mr. Ward: Is there anyone else that would like to address the Board? I would
just ask that if you do that we cover another point that we haven't covered
We've talked the subject through pretty much tonight. If not. what the
Planning Board will do will be meeting with the applicant within the next
week or so to try and resolve the issues on a more compiete site plan with a
hopeful start on the 29th of having this meeting again where we could start
the SEQRA process. So to that end wethank you for coming and we'll be in
touch. We'll take a two minute recess to let those that would like to leave,
leave.
(Note: Ken Edwards left meeting.)
***************
Mr. Wa . Stron 's Marina - This site plan is for the constru Ion of a 5,336
sq. ft. sales 0 . e and shop; 2,400 sq. ft. show room a 2,223 sq. ft. boat
storage rack, loc d at Camp Mineola Rd. in Mattit SCTM# 1000-122-
4-44.2 and 122-9-3 6.1. Is the applicant her d would like to address
the Board? If not, wha . the pleasure of Board?
Mr. Cremers: Second.
er IS. Be it resolved that the Southold
dination process on this unlisted action.
Mr. Latham: Mr. Chairman, I'll
Town Planning Board start the
Ayes: Mr. Orlow I, Mr. Latham, Mr. Cremers, Mr. War
Motion carried.
***************
.
t
Richard G. Ward, Chairman
George Ritchie Latham, Jr.
Bennett Orlowski, Jr.
Marl< S. McDonald
Kenneth L. Edwards
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Town Hall, 53095 Main Road
P. O. Box 1179
Southold, New Yorl< 11971
Fax (516) 765-3136
Telephone (516) 765.1938
PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS
PLANNING BOARD OFFICE
TOWN OF SOUTHOLD
July 14, 1995
Richard MacMurray, Vice President
Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
P.O. Box 33
New London, Connecticut 06320-0033
Re: Site plan for Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
SCTM# 1000-15-9-10.1 & 11.1
Dear Mr. MacMurray:
The following resolution was adopted by the Southold Town Planning Board at a
special meeting held on Friday, July 14, 1995:
WHEREAS, the Planning Board is the body charged by law with requiring, reviewing
and approving site plans; and
WHEREAS, Article 00, Section 250 of the Southold Town Zoning Code grants the
Planning Board the authority to require site plan approval where there is a proposed
change of use or intensity of use. ('Any change of use or intensity of use Which will
affect the characteristics of the site in terms of oarki",!. loadi",!' access, drainage,
open space or utilities will require site plan approval.' emphasis supplied); and
WHEREAS, the Cross Sound Ferry Inc. will initiate a high speed passenger ferry
service in addition to its regular daily run of vehicle ferries; and
WHEREAS, this change in service represents a significant change in the nature of
the ferry service use, because the passenger service will create an additional need
for parking; and
WHEREAS, the passenger-only ferry service is proposing to add an additional six
round trips, at an additional 350 possible passengers per trip, which will be a 40%
increase in the Quantity of ferry trips; and
t
t
Page 2
Cross Sound Ferry Services, Inc.
July 14, 1995
WHEREAS, there appears to be insufficient parking on site to handle the current
demand for car parking as evidenced by the overflow of cars being parked along
State Route 25 and on private residentially zoned property adjacent to the Cross
Sound Ferry terminal; and
WHEREAS, the Cross Sound Ferry Inc. will initiate the high speed passenger ferry
service in addition to its regular daily run of boats on July 19, 1995; and
WHEREAS, the Cross Sound Ferry Inc. has not obtained the requisite site plan
approval; be it therefore
RESOLVED, that the Planning Board has determined that the passenger-only ferry
service is a change in the use, and further, that the proposed six new trips per day
will be a significant change in the intensity of use; and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED, that these changes trigger the need for a revised site
plan review to consider the parking, traffic and other impacts which will be caused
by the proposed service.
Please contact this office if you have any Questions regarding the above.
Sincerely,
;f~~ f- oA/~/'/5
Richard G. Ward
Chairman
cc: Laury Dowd, Town Attorney
Southold Town Board